Watch What Crappens - #2533 Chimp Crazy 1 Part Two: Monkey See Monkey Don’t

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

This is part two of a two-part recap!Max has bestowed upon us the gift of Chimp Crazy and we couldn’t be more grateful. It’s insanity. Meet Tonia as she runs from the law, PETA and Alan Cumming all in the name of her lover for chimps. If you want the video version, bonus episodes and a full Trailer Trash of Hulu’s upcoming Secret Lives of Mormon Wives #momtalk series, join us over at Patreon.com/watchwhatcrappens!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Watch Your Crappins ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Watch what happens, watch what happens, guess what happens when there's so much that happens. Well hello and welcome to Watch What Happens. This is part two of a two part recap. Enjoy the show. So she's like, well Chonka did a lot of movies, cause you know, Chonka's a tonka. Chonka's no crystal. You know what I mean? Chonka did a lot of movies because you know, so Rick Tonka is a Tonka. Tonka is no crystal. You know what I mean? Tonka did a lot of movies. Sorry, Connor. Sorry, greeting card ape. We're kind of a little insecure. Hey, Connor, guess what? People are still sending each

other all the times instead of E-greetings. Cards. Don't worry. You're still in fashion, Connor. Yeah. Loser. He really... Loser, Connor. He really still believes in legacy media. Although the only legacy around here though, I think we all agree is Connie. Am I right? Well, Tonka did a lot of movies like Georgia,

the jungle, big pig in the city, not a greeting card. Sorry, Con. Yeah, he's pretty famous. And then she's standing up against Tonka's cage and they're like leaning up against each other. I mean, they're so cute. I love Tonka. I can see why people fall in love with Tonka. He's like so cute and handsome. It does seem like they have a bond. I mean, what's so interesting about this documentary is that really, again, these chimps should

not be in these cages in these conditions. This is just not humane. Which is, by the way, it's such a funny word when we talk about like how we treat it, like this animal is not being treated, right? It's not humane. It's funny to have it like human sort of being in the root of that word, but like at the same time, what's so, what's, where it's so interesting is that like you do feel like her love is pure for this, for this monkey.

And you do feel like Tonka does feel a certain way for her. And so you're like, well, you don't want to get in the way of that, but also this animal needs to have better conditions. It just does. Well, one of the things I find super interesting about all this is watching it, you know, they're in these cages that look like a prison. And so I'm watching them go all crazy in the cage. You're like, well, that's not good. But then that's how chimps are. And they can't, obviously, they can't just be walking around the humans because they're dangerous like that. And so, if you think, okay, well, it's like a zoo, right? So, they would be kind of in those cages in the zoo. So, is that humane? Because there's still zoos. But then there

are people who say, no, zoos are not humane. And then there are people who are like, well, it's not, we're looking at it through a human lens where you're looking at that and thinking that looks like a prison, where to a chimp it's just like their house that they can see through. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have enough knowledge to say what's inhumane or not. I mean, I know you wouldn't look at a dog and be like, oh my God, that dog doesn't get to have a job? I mean, that's inhumane. He just sits in the house all day. So, I don't know, I'm not trying to lighten what it is, because you do see that it's inhumane and like just the way that they can't move around freely and they're always in a cage, like they need to have somewhere

that they can run around. But it's an interesting thing that the documentary is bringing up, because like you said, you can see that these people actually do love the animals. They're not just like… Pete Slauson They're not like just there to abuse them and like… Jared Larson Right. They're not like outwardly abusing. I like, you could say they're living conditions and stuff like that are abuse, but they don't seem like abusive monsters. They seem like loving people who this all kind of spun out of their control.

Right. And I think that's actually at a point later on, like the lawyer for PETA says, like, it just seems like this is someone who really likes monkeys, but doesn't really know how to take care of them. And so now, and we do see, by the way, that like there is some sort of like outdoor ish, there's like a big, big sort of space where it looks like the monkeys can climb around and jump around. We, they don't really highlight that on the documentary, which I think is fascinating. They really only show the monkeys in extreme confinement, which does not that, that, that outdoor space, that cage in outdoor space does not make it any better. But, um, yeah,

it does actually. Yeah. It doesn't make the confinement of the cages any better, but, um, yeah, I think that ultimately, yeah, there's a lot of, you know, people, zoos are actually a very fraught subject because there are some people who really feel like, no, zoos are terrible. And there are some people who say they're actually bastions of conservation. And like that said, that's a debate I don't know enough about to even really weigh in on. But what I will say is that I think a zoo,

a proper zoo, like a good zoo, it's going to be better than Connie's compound. Yeah, actually, that's one compound. The best one was that sanctuary that they showed some aerial shots of it was like the monkeys on like a little island and they have like a they have a big toy in the middle and that looks like a dream for if you're going to be in captivity, that looks like the best way to be in captivity. Yeah. Okay.

So Tony was like, you know, they all, you know, they help for me. Yeah, good. It gets a good review from you on the Yelp for me. Yeah, good. Gets a good review from you on the Yelp. So she's like, yeah, they gravitate towards me because they feel secure, you know, and I'm, I'm just going to go ahead and credit the eyelashes. You know, they come around me and they, they'll occasionally ask me to sing nine to five or something. I said, stop. I'm the second mom. Connie is the first mom, but like she's the kind of mom that just,

you know, says pass me the remote, you know, that's a jack's coming on. I've got my private time. So Tanya is like, I beg your pleas, please. Let's write a book. Let's, let's, let's get your legacy down. You have a legacy. Let's write it down. Okay. But she's very closed and you know, you know, slowly surely, I found out a lot about Connie from the chimps. She got her first chimp in 1972. His name was Coco. He was wild caught from Africa. And then we see Connie in 2018

when she still had a nice relationship with the media with talking about Coco and how she would sit in a circle with Coco and you know, you eat little peanuts and raisins out of their mouths, etc. It was like very gentle. And then she kept showing pictures. She'd be like, yeah, we'd have a raisin in her mouth or a peanut or a fingernail, something like that. And then they just take it, Coco would take it right out of our mouth with Coco's mouth. And then they cut to all these pictures of a dude, like, the dude, like, twisting his face and then the monkey just like, open mouthing him. I was like,

uh, you're making it. Like, this is disturbing. This is disturbing me, Connie. Okay. Can we find other ways to love our monkeys? So then,a's like, well, come on Bridget. Okay, because then they got Bridget. So then they had their first baby, but oh, and then they just started having babies all over the place. And you know, as chance to get a little older, they became a little harder to handle, you know,

which is a little different than children. You know, children get over and you say, get the fuck out of this trailer if you're gonna keep eating peanut butter crackers, little bitch, right? Never liked you anyway. Would it have killed you to take one ballet class? But, you know, the chimps are different because they get older, they get a little harder to handle. So people would contact Connie and they'd say, oh, hey, you know, I've got this champ. It was a nice way of saying it because, you know, sometimes

they'd call him back, get this fucking thing off of me. You know, this is different, different calls, but you know, generally they just ask Connie to come pick them up. Yeah. You know, chimps and they get a little older. They're not as cute. They're harder to handle. And so you just call up someone say, can you take care of this? Can you take this off my hands? Same thing happened to Wesley from mr. Belvedere. I hear anyway. So Connie is like, well, little did I know that years later I'd have a house full

of chimps. And so then we see a chimp running around in a onesie around the house. And then we see this lady named Angela Scott, and she's like, I first started working with Connie in 2001. It was very surreal. And like immediately I was in love. And I just knew that that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to work there. Connie was breeding and selling chimps as pets and every year they would keep one and that's what they would

use for commercials and movies. God, what a rush it was. Was this the lady who was- They were hanging out there. They'd keep, yeah. Yeah. And then they would just keep one and their family just kept growing. I know of at least four generations, if not five generations of Connie's chimps in Hollywood. Legacies, legacies. So, then she talks about her Connie marrying Mike Casey. And Mike Casey was a total, I

mean, total stage mom husband who's just like, oh, you think you got some stage mom here? Let's make it an industry. So he came in really ready to agent these kids, data-jure these kids. And he came up with the idea to do all the Hollywood stuff and the chimp party chimps. Chimp party chimp era. He ushered in the chimp party chimp era. So we see lots of news clips and we see there's a girl named Brittany Stobb

Who had a 12th birthday party with a chimp? I just love the idea of like Brittany Stobb and thinking like was this someone related to Danielle Stobb? Did Danielle Stobb once attend a birthday party where there was a chimp was she traumatized by the chimp like that chimp? It put its hand on my hair. So, attention. So Angela's talking about how her name was never even Danielle Stobbs. This just, she just always remembers that 12th birthday party. She's like, I always wanted to be Britney, Britney with a chip in her party.

What did I have in my party? Nothing. I would have a party. No. This is how Danielle chose her new name. Danielle stop. Because I don't even remember what her old name was, but was it like, um, Stephanie Beverly Beverly Beverly. Yeah. So Angela's saw him. I had, they made a lot of money with it. That's, and because of those parties, which is what allowed them to build the big enclosures. And, um, and then we see Connie saying that she was hoping that this could be like a,

a sanctuary for chimps, et cetera. And so they're built, we see just archival footage of them building the area that was the big outdoor area that they could, chimps can run around and swing on things and stuff. So then the next scene is Tonya at the foundation and she's going through cards. She's like, these are Hallmark cards or American Greetings cards that Connor did. Connor, look at you, cards. Look how impressed everybody is. Hey, Connor, only 95% of the people said, what's a card?

The other 5% super impressed, Con. Now here's the fun thing. Okay, if you get a homework card, just look on the back like this. Well, this is a American greetings. Hold on. So we just gonna rummage through this. Here's a good one. Okay. Look at the back of this one. I've got another fucking American greetings. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Hold on one second. I know I can't. Okay. Look at the back of this card. It says fuck you. Fuck you. Happy Mother's Day. Fuck you you Wish you never had you love Tanya. Oh, that was the one I kind of remember. That's the one we wrote to my daughter I couldn't find her address. I just keep going through the box another fucking American greetings one. Okay. Oh, here's what? Okay Here's one that says

Dear daughter. Thanks so much for the little plate of peanut butter You gave me for Mother's Day really really meant a lot to me, by way, I did everything for you and what did you give me in return? Okay, oh, another American Greetings. God, I really love this brand. Here it is. If you find this American Greeting, you turn it over and it says, Chimp Party Chimp, Festus, Missouri. So, you know it's one of our greeting cards. And look at this one. It's a chimp as a stripper, Connor, and it says, this is the only male stripper I could afford a happy birthday, which is real funny, Con, because they even charge $300 an hour for you, Connor, and you got the personality of a pencil

eraser. Am I right? Look, you jump on a cake. Well, actually, it was a present, but... I remember it being a cake. It's different how things work in your memory, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, you know, the cake was Brittany, that was Brittany Staub's birthday party of the cake. This was the present. It's clear. Yeah.

It's just crazy because I just always remembered it that way. And then last year on my birthday, I tried to eat a present. Where'd that come from? It's all coming full circle now. You know, this is kind of funny, but I have been called the Dolly of greeting cards. It's amazing to meet a Dolly in two different industries. Jared. So, she's like, well, snack wise, they all have licorice, they love marshmallows,

and they love drinks. They love sugary drinks. I was like, okay, so, you know what, can we not inundate the chimps with the processed food? You know what I mean? Are we all suffering enough from this crap? You're even doing it with the chimps? We're already raising a bunch of monsters. And I think it's because of the shit that they're feeding them in the schools and stuff,

in the McDonald's, et cetera. And now we're doing this to the kids? I wonder how Tonka became a sick chimp that's actually not a big chimp, just a very fat chimp. I wonder how that happened. Yeah, I wonder how Tonka's having strokes. Yes. I know. Geez. Go to the produce section. Listen, next time you're in the grocery store, shop on

the outer aisles, guys, okay? I know. Do I need to sign you up for Netflix food documentaries? Okay. So Tanya's talking about the facility, how they used to have 42 chimps in this place, which is crazy. But then things started going bad. Dun dun dun dun dun. And we cut to Kirby, the chimp and a voiceover is like, he and a fat James Dean or Leonardo DiCaprio just entered the room. Women falling all over trying to get to Kirby. James Dean riding a motorcycle. Leonardo DiCaprio dating teenagers.

That's crazy. So, and then we see footage of like this, like a kids party. And there's like this chimp that like sort of grabs a toddler's foot like slightly well aggressively but like you know just like it's it's being playful but it's like uh doesn't know its own strength and it was like so then we see mike casey and he's like oh he's telling a reporter like oh i don't think kirby meant any harm like we never had any problems kirby he's a great little chimp no problems whatsoever but as we're looking at Mike, it's clear, like his nose is fucked up. Like it,

it looks like it's a Voldemort situation and something's been put onto his face. You're like, Hmm, something is not right here with Mike. Mike comes on screen and you go, where's your fucking nose? It's, it's a wild, literally you're like, what the hell? And then, and Mike's like, Oh, you know, monkeys, what are you going to do? I mean, that's who they are. At the end of the day, you can't get mad at them. That's how they are.

So then it cuts to Angela, the blonde lady, and she's like, I heard a story about a chimp named Bo. Mike went into Bo's cage and in the blink of an eye, Bo ran up, bit his nose off, completely off his face. Connie actually had to go in there and pick the nose up and take it. So, a couple years later, Bo had died and I asked how and they said of natural causes, but he was young. And... Pete Slauson I mean, that's, that's the first really dark turn that the story takes where this

guy is just like standing up for the chimps, even though he had lost his nose to the chimps and they put the nose back on the guy. Yeah. Oh no. He died of natural causes, you know, cause. Now this is, oh, I'm sorry. I was gonna say natural cause like, you know, because a chimp naturally gutted him, bit off his genitalia and his eyeballs on his face.

Oh my gosh. So yeah, they're saying the chimp died of natural causes, which, you know, obviously. Oh, I thought it was that bow. Nevermind. That makes much more sense. I was like, wow. No, the guy who got his nose taken off is this guy. I mix up the names. I was like, wow, what a cover up. Yeah, no, no, no. Bo Bo was out of control. So I guess they put Bo down or whatever, but they won't just say that. Right. So then, um, no, Bo. Bo was out of control, so I guess they put Bo down or whatever, but they won't

just say that, right? So then Peter, the journalist, is telling us, he's seen a lot as he's seen a lot as his years as a journalist, disasters, wars, murders, but nothing prepared me for walking into Connie Casey's compound and single ghastly prison." And it was like a puppy mill and it was terrible. So now we move into the kind of dark stuff of all of this. Yeah. And basically, so Angela tells us that they turned Chim Party into a nonprofit, you know, and try and save that reputation because after the

stuff that started going sour, they were like, okay, how do we change this? We're gonna change this into a chimp sanctuary. That's right. It's a chimp sanctuary. And you know what brings some peace? Occasionally doing a child's birthday party. Brian Yeah, Brittany Staub loves coming to the sanctuary. So but then Angela's like, um, yeah, I didn't like this. So I called PETA. So now we go over to, yeah, she was like, I love these. She, cause she volunteered there all the time and she, you know, she was talking to these monkeys, like she'd sit there and like have these relationships basically with these monkeys and they were in jail and she would

tell them every day, like, you're not going to be here anymore. One day. So I called PETA. So then we go over to Jared Goodman who's. So I called PETA. So then we go over to Jared Goodman, who's the general counsel of PETA. He sort of has like a Pete Buttigieg vibe, you know? Enter Jared Goodman. Oh my God, this fucking guy. He's like, he's like, dockers. He is very Pete Buttigieg. He's very, uh, dockers and you know, his ass will be like, hi there. I'm a different kind of H O a we're a different kind. We don't believe in torturing you. I mean, what do we care?

I mean, get your lawn. I'm sorry. Did you get our note? Did you get our note that we left on your car? Get your lawn taken care of before we have to do it for you. We will do it. It's not going to be cheap, but we're happy to help you neighbor. Yeah. He is, um, he's to me, he's like people to judge only cause he's like very dry. He's dry and sort of looks like him, but his whole thing, but his fatal flaw is that he is very condescending and which is funny because he's actually like, he's actually seems to be in the right in this story, but he's, he's kind of like the villain, which is, it's kind of fucked up.

So she is kind of the villain, but I have to say, I'm really surprised that they made Peter so likable in the story. Cause I feel like every time we see Peter in pop culture, it's in some horrible light, you know, it's like, you know, just going so far. Cause they go so far to get their point across or whatever, but it's never like, look at a great thing that Peter did. I feel like it's always something terrible the way that they show PETA. And this one, they're kind of killing it with this guy, Jared Goodman, because he's like such a smart ass, and he's also completely in control. He's not crazy at all. Like, you imagine,

I imagine PETA people just the way they're portrayed to be kind of off the wall and kooky and like really extreme and he's not at all. He's actually very reasonable and just like everyone around me is an idiot. He's very unflappable. Yes. And so which is funny because he's really in this case, like he is, he's really standing up for the organization is like doing the right thing by these chimps. or the organization is like doing the right thing by these chimps. But because we're sort of like the documentary seems to be really from the POV of Tanya, it sort of puts him in the role of villain,

even though he's really honestly like in the right here. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a Crappins commercial. What's up guys, it's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you, it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

Every episode I bring on a friend, I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on. So follow, watch, and listen to, baby, this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Offensive Line. You guys, on this podcast, we're going to make some picks, talk some s***, and hopefully

make you some money in the process. I'm your host, Annie Agar. So here's how this show's going to work, okay? We're going to run through the weekly slate of NFL and college football matchups, breaking them down into very serious categories like no offense. No offense, Travis Kelce, but you gotta step up your game if Pat Mahomes is saying the Chiefs need to have more fun this year.

We're also handing out a series of awards and making picks for the top storylines surrounding the world of football. Awards like the He May Have a Point Award for the wide receiver that's most justifiably bitter. Is it Brandon Iyuk, T. Higgins, or Devonte Adams? Plus, on Thursdays, we're doing an exclusive bonus episode on Wondery+, where I share my fantasy football picks

ahead of Thursday Night Football and the weekend's matchups. Your fantasy league is as good as locked in. Follow the offensive line on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can access bonus episodes and listen ad free right now by joining Wondery+. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen

at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop around. She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast. Like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low.

Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. No, it's hysteria, it's all in your head, it's not physical, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely?

Something's wrong here, something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Like any great successful organization, they're very polarizing, like, murder. But if your job is to get people's attention to make changes about the issues that you feel need to be changed by necessity, you're going to piss people off.

Like with murder. So, murder. So, who's a traitor? So he is a huge part of this movie, which I was surprised. I had no idea either. So, he is involved with Peter, and he talks about how in 1996, he did a film called Buddy, and it had chimps. And so, he became friends with Tonka, because Tonka was the star chimp. And he fell in love with Tonka, basically. And he said, in Scotland, we have a word for it called cootie.

If an animal or a person is cootie, it means that kind of, you know, they kind of come to you like that, you know, their personality as well as their physicality, kind of, that's cootie, it's cootie. And Tonka was cootie. So basically, it's like when an animal is in love with you, it's like a flirty type of thing. And Tonka was very in love with him. And every time he came on the set, Tonka would be so excited to see him. He would just run and jump into his arms and they fell in love. To me, the real story here was that when they showed clips

of this movie, it's like, yes, there was Tonka, but hello, there was also Renee Russo. Where is she in this documentary? She was like, no comment, no comment. I had a fraught relationship with Tonka. I don't want to discuss it. Can we get Renee Russo's thoughts on butter? You know, wrote Renee Russo's at home watching this like, oh great. Well Tonka gets a second shot. By the way, who cast this movie? Who came up? Okay. We're going to do a movie. Okay. What we want is we want a chimp Renee Russo. I don't know. can get a gay guy

in there. Maybe Alan coming. Sure. Done. Greenlit. Go. Shoot it. So he's like, you know, and then, um, after Tonka, I just figured he, I heard that he retired to Palm Springs, you know, he's like, that's what I was told. And every time I would go to Palm Springs, cause you know, Palm Springs for gay guys and old people. And then every time I'd go there, I'd see the gays, I'd see the olds, and I'd look around for Tonka. Like, where's Tonka? It's just funny.

And he never bumped into Tonka. It's also a reminder that actors sometimes are not the brightest people. I thought they put Tonka in a Blazing Heart's desert environment and that he'd be walking through the palm springs. So then he found out that he'd done a campaign with PETA and they told him that they found a place in Missouri where chimps are being kept in very poor, terrible conditions and one of those chimps was Tonka and they showed a picture of Tonka and he was in the cage and he was looking very sad. And so he teamed up with PETA to, uh, you know, save Tonka or to help Tonka.

Yeah. So then we go back to Angela, uh, the whistleblower, who's also in this documentary wearing big black stockings and or they like leg warmers or tights or something like that just wearing them and she's like well I knew that PETA was gonna go after Connie and her chimps so I felt like this is an opportunity to do what I've always wanted to do which was go undercover in my own cool chick lit movie so PETA gave me these glasses I had a camera in them and they just said get as much footage as you can so my mind I kept telling myself,

you're betraying someone you love, but you've got to go, but you know what's going to happen after this goes public. So she basically goes back to Connie wearing spy glasses and I would have loved to have seen an image because you know, this is like, they probably were like enormous. And on top of that, like looking at her footage, I can only imagine how crazy she looks because her footage is so shaky and it's constantly like left and right on up and down.

Like I can only imagine how nervous she was in this situation that she's become that she was like her head is just going in all different directions. While people are talking to like Angela, are you okay? You're okay. So why are you wearing a mustache? Angela, why do you keep moving that flower in your lapel closer to my mouth? And so why are you carrying a bush? mustache. Pete's voice is very similar to the voice of a man who's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time.

He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time.

He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time.

He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. He's been in prison for a long time. being held in prisons throwing poop at each other. They had nothing in there. It was barren and it was frankly unlawful. So, in 2017, we decided to proceed with a lawsuit alleging that these conditions in which the chimpanzees were held constituted a violation of the Endangered Species Act. And we're supposed to hate him, but I'm like, yeah, I mean, get him a better place to stay. I'm on your side. Can't believe this whole thing is shocking to me. Yeah. And Alan Cummings is like, look, it wasn't like we want to take the chimps away. We just said, just improve their conditions. So Tanya goes, well, that's their motif, which is like not even close

to the right. That's their motif. And know, and I could tell you verbatim how they handle a case in every case is cookie cutter. That's my terminology. Okay. You know what else? My terminology motif. So they use the same forms. I came up with cookie cutter, came up with that. That's my motive. I came up with cookie cutters, usually the same cookies. They were literally the shape of anything. It was just like, you just throw something at a wall and that's the splat. You see the splat. That's what shape cookies used to be in. But you know, not I came up with cookie cutters changed everything.

Someone say if they're motive, but I think that they're actually their motif. And so they just want you to run out of money and get your animals from me. And then like, you know, so then I started working at Connie's, approximately six months after PETA filed that lawsuit. And we see now, you know, Tanya is like, it's cleaning up or doing her version of cleaning up the place. Right. So Tanya's doing the whole like, they're trying to take our theater, let's have a show. Like to raise money or whatever to do, you know, to do it. She's going to take her money and she's going to fix every problem that was on this PETA lawsuit. The problem is, the main issue on the lawsuit is that these monkeys are being held in terrible conditions in these big cages. And I guess my main question at this point in the show is why? Why are you keeping them?

You don't need the chimps for anything. You're not using them for business. They can't, they're unusable business wise. Now it's kind of like this old repository of old chimps who are just sitting there with nothing to do day in and day out, leaving no kind of a life. So what's the point of keeping them all? Why wouldn't they want them to go to a sanctuary? Right. Well, because they have a warped relationship. They think that they're not just like, oh, these are just chimps that we've saved. These are like their kids. Because Tanya literally says right here, she's like, well, Connie was very anxious to spend all this money to keep her babies.

I said, don't worry about it. They're your kids. How can they take your kids? I mean, this is America. You know the judicial system will protect us because we haven't done anything wrong. The judicial system always protects kids. In fact, everyone knows the judicial system

protects kids first in America. Yeah. Well, you know, kids in America, protected. I think that, I think everybody would agree. So guess what? I remember fixing things up. So she, you know, Connie used to get donated old produce, you know, like, just like crap from Walmart, you know, but now, now I buy the crap from Walmart, you know, they get fresh veggies, sugar snap peas, zucchini squash, Pringles, Jolly Ranchers, you know, the Quik, they love Quik, strawberry and chocolate is their favorite, you know, fresh shit like that. Well, actually, you know, this lawsuit actually got them feeding them healthy, which I think is funny. It's like, actually, PETA is kind of doing a good thing, which are getting you guys to do actual healthy things. Like maybe this works, you know? It's like,

threaten people and then suddenly they're getting sugar snap peas instead of hot chocolate, instead of chocolate milk, you know? Yeah. But then at the same time, like, it's like not that much longer that we then see her like taking some sort of like Reese's peanut butter, like whipped cream and just like, just filling it into one of the monkeys mouths. So I'm like, I don't know. I don't know how long this lasted. **Matt Stauffer** Well, this part, I was happy for Tanya because I'm like, okay, look, she's making it up. She's going to save these old monkeys after all, you know? And then it comes to Jared and he's like, Hmm, well, Tanya Haddix would regularly post improvements that they were making to the facility on her

Facebook page. Things like putting up a new hammock. Cute. Cute, Tonya. I was like, oh, geez, Jared's a bitch, you know? So at this part, then I was like, hey, I liked Peter for a second, now Jared's being a little bitch. I know, I was like, look, she painted the floor green.

Yeah. I started becoming on her side and she's like, well, if I had started guesstimating how much I'd spent on this, I would say it's about nine chimps, which is $500,000. And then it cuts to Jared and goes, they spent nothing even approaching the amount of money that she said she spent. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. Because it is kind of funny because they're like, okay, we need these chimps to live in a better environment. So she, one of those cages she like painted it like a, like a green hillside with like like stick figures like playing in the

sunshine. And I was like, well, that's cute sort of mural, I guess. I don't think it really helps anything for the chimp. The chimp is still in like a small space. Yeah. And so she goes off about PETA and she was like, well, PETA never came out to see the improvements. They never saw the quality of life with this chimp. They didn't see the new costumes. I mean, you know, for a whole week, these chimps were doing jailhouse rock. You know, you think that was easy to choreograph? It wasn't. Did they ever see

it? They did not. I friended Jared on Facebook. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So she's like, you know, the thing is the chimps is they're going to be your friend for life, especially Tonka. You know who's not your friend for life? Literally any daughter you may ever have. Okay? Tonka was 38 years old when he was my best friend. And them chimps just suck you in. They just suck you in so quick. I mean, sometimes they just actually grab you by your ears and pull you into them. You go, Tonka, no, stop pulling me in. And you got to take some BBC and vogue them a little bit. But God, I love them. And Jared's like, so eventually Tanya just said, listen, I said to Connie, sign them over to me. I'll take the grunt of the lawsuit. Okay? You don't want to deal with this dress,

I'll deal with it. So then Jared's like, um, there's no apparent reason for Tanya to have taken ownership except to get the heat off of Connie. Well, that's just not how that's going to work, is it? I was like, oh man, I would not want to be on Jared's bad side, that's for sure. I would just give him the monkeys. I mean, if you want me to do anything, literally just stick Jared on me. I'll be like, take whatever you want. Seriously, you want me to exercise every day? Threaten me with Jared's like judgment. I'll do it. I wonder if indeed, this was the case where Peter was like, look, we're not going to take, we don't want you to lose your chimpanzees, but we want you to improve their conditions. Does Pita offer guidance onto like, you know, what you should do,

what improvements need to be made? Here's some recommendations. Yeah. Yeah. They gave the list of all the things that were wrong. So that's why she's trying to work from the list of everything that's wrong to like fix everything on that list. But he's like, I mean, kind of the main thing is living conditions. So unless you're going to change list of everything that's wrong to like fix everything on that list. But he's like, I mean, kind of the main thing is living condition. So unless you're going to change like the whole setup that you have for these, like it's not gonna work, you know, it's not painting. No one said, you know what these chimps need? Murals. Well, I thought that was my recommendation. So now she's with the cages and she's like,

okay, so I'm going to try to clean this this cage So I need to lock him out of the cage But I'm gonna lock this door, but I gotta lock that door also cuz he's strong and oh well, he just escaped well, you know that just chimps will do what chimps will do and This is another moment where it's just getting you to feel warm again Like oh look at her like putting all this work in to keep the monkey, you know to keep the chimps But then like to see the maximum security of like, oh my God, well, it has to get into that one. So I need to lead into that one. Cause if it gets into those, never do it. You're fucked if these things get out, you know? It's like, this is kind of scary.

It's really scary. It's so scary. So then we move to, ah, Carrie, look at Carrie. That's the one who escaped right here on the highway outside Festus. And then we see news clips of this guy. This is totally me as a chimp. So they're like, well, after Tanya or Jared's telling us, well, after Tanya became the legal owner of the chimps, there were issues still arising because she's not qualified to care for chimps. She does not have formal training. She's simply someone that likes chimpanzees. And then we see Tanya in the pink chip cage room and she's like, okay, okay, everyone. Okay. Here's the link. Okay. Here is a hack. Okay.

This is for everyone. Okay. Pay attention. I have a rule of thumb. I never walk away from a cage unless I got a lock on it because period end of story because you know what it'd be so easy to get called away and then the locks be off and there's no safeties on the doors and then you have loose chimps so if you don't want to have loose chimps lock the cage it's that simple. That's my motif. That's my motif. Locks. Locks. My motif. Okay here's a way to remember to lock the cage. If you walk away and you haven't locked it, go back and lock it. That way it's always locked.

Okay, that's all you have to do. So then we see news footage of chimps escaping. And it was all due to, guess what? Locks. Told you so. Told you so, past. I told you. I kind of wish they'd had me in the past and I told them locks.

Jared's like, um, remarkably Tanya had ex's response that PETA might have sent someone there to unlock the cages. That's how delusional she is. Tanya's deadline to have all these improvements completed came and went. She never formally presented any of the changes that she made to the fastest facility. It simply didn't happen. So we filed several motions to transfer all seven chimpanzees to an accredited sanctuary. So he's basically like, yeah, she lost two chimps over the course of this case. So we're like, okay, it's time to move them

to a sanctuary. And one of them, it's not here, but one of them was this chimp who, is this where the scene was where they showed the chimp they got out and he got out of the car? Oh, no, this is later. This is the chimp from episode two I'm thinking of, where they showed the chimp in traffic slapping people's butts. They're like, that's hilarious. Okay, so that's in episode two. So then, Alan Cummings like, this lady had her chance and she blew it, right? So now we're at the courthouse and she's stressing out, you know, she's been up all night with the attorney and she's just doing the court talk outside. You know, we're up all night, they worked all hours, we'll put motions in this morning,

best chips, best case scenario, they can't take my chimps, worst case scenario, they take my chimps. Worst case scenario, they take my chimps. Worst worst case scenario, they take my chimps and give me my daughter back. So now two hours later, uh, Peter basically wins and Jared is saying like, well, the judge found Tonya Haddix in civil contempt and ultimately ordering that all seven of the chimpanzees be transferred to accredited sanctuaries. And she's like, I, I love the chimps more than anything. I mean, more than anything. I mean, daughter who, am I right? I mean, guess who's not getting peanut butter as a mother's day gets me from the chimps. So more than my own kids,

more than anything. Okay. I literally telling you this on camera, I love the chimps more than my kids. Yeah. She literally says that. She's like, I love them more than my kids. You know, I mean, one kid threw a, I love more than my kids. You know, I mean, one kid threw a peanut butter cracker in my head, the champs throw poop in my head, but at least it's something they put some effort into. You know what I mean? They made that. They made it. So yeah, I feel real bad. I mean, I like this. You're feeling for her. I'm feeling for her. And she's like, I'm going to give it up to the fat lady sings. Oh God, there he is. There's a little fucker now.

She sees Jared on the other side of the steps talking to reporters and he's like, well, we are going to present the martial service and they will make a safe transfer of the monkeys. And she's like, that little fucker fucking Jared motherfucker. So they're going to have to, they're going to confiscate the chimps and everything. And like Tanya and Connie are not allowed to be on the property and there's going to be no cameras allowed or anything like that. So, so, uh, Tanya's talking about.

We have this real sad scene of her prepping the chimps and they're going to give them the, they're going to give them the chimps, you know? She goes to get them their favorite things. She's like, fuck snap peas. I got them Happy Meals. That's what they really like. They just want them Happy Meals. We're just going to spend as much time with them as we can. And so they do this whole thing, feeding the about the state of happy meals in America. Seeing those happy meal boxes, these kids in America are really being deprived. I feel like when we were kids, happy meal boxes had all sorts of drawings on them and mazes and puzzles, and you could do all sorts of cool things on them. And now they're just red boxes with a

McDonald's logo on them. What's happened to these poor happy meals? Now they're just one giant QR code. They're like, scan this if you want a game. It's true. It's not fair. Actually, I went to McDonald's a couple of times last week. And let me tell you what they're out of. Hello Kitty boxes, whatever is happening, those little kids are loving the Hello Kitty tours because they're out at every McDonald's. I was on a fries rampage all week last week and I can't get the Hello Kitty tours because they're out at every McDonald's. I was on a fries rampage all week last week and I can't get the Hello Kitty stuff. So, goodbye Kitty. No more Kitty. Abandoned Kitty. I was like, I don't have chimps anymore. Let me get some kitties. Couldn't find them at any

McDonald's. So the movie crew hooks up hidden cameras all over the place, so they can, because they're not allowed to be on the property, but they want to see what's going on. So, they've got hidden cameras everywhere. And we see Connie depressed as the guys show up to take the monkeys and she's like, just depressed as hell. And we don't get to see Connie a lot. So, it's like, well, let's watch Connie walk from a window to an easy chair and sigh. You know, it's a sad moment. And as she sighs, it just sounds like this, legacy. She just sighs like, why did I never put a TV in here? God, I gotta go back into the main house to watch Pat. Yeah. So then they have to dart the chimps, which sucks, like give them medicine. So they put them all out and then they start carrying them out. And Angela has no regrets. They

ask her, do you have regrets, Angela? She's like, I wish I'd done it sooner, that's all, because now they're going to be happy. And I'm with her because we do see footage of the sanctuary a lot as this is going on. And it does look like heaven, right? It looks so nice. So it's like bloodbath for monkeys. Jared So, it's like, I feel bad for Tanya and kind of Connie, even though we don't know her that well. But I kind of feel for Tanya because I've really grown to like her over this hour. But it does seem like the end. Like, they're giving up, they're giving up, they're doing what they were told by the court, they're giving up all the chimps,

we see the chimps leaving, Tanya is depressed, but we think she's going to make it. And then it cuts to Tanya all dressed up, like she's all gussied up, and she's walking into a casino, and she looks like she's just won, which is really weird. It's like that movie with Julia, Ocean's 12, Julia Roberts and all the guys, where it's like real fancy and they're walking through the casino all dressed up. And then it's like, wow, Tanya's like got a really good attitude about this. And she walks through the casino and all the nickel machines. She goes, this, this is my realm. And we hear Jared says the rescue went smoothly and Tanya Haddox didn't show up, but there

was one major problem. There was a chimpanzee missing. Wait, did you bring the chip to the casino? You see the chimp like running a roulette table. Okay, no more bets. And then I started dying laughing. I was like, she kidnapped a chimp. That was shocking.

That was really shocking. And she was like, you know, once I had chimp, there was no way I could do without one. And I'll do anything and everything to keep them kids. Not the real kids, of course, they're trash. I've got to and everything to keep them kids. Not the real kids. Of course they're trash. I've got to take every chance I've got cause you know what? When I get lucky, might get lucky.

And that's how episode one ended. I was dying. I was like a chip watching. It was like, Oh, I was cheering. I was going crazy. I just did not see that coming. I thought, how are they going to make this four parts? You know, it seems like the whole thing is done. It was a good twist. And I'm, but I was, I was also like, there's no way that she could hide or take away a chimp. Like I don't know how they could even do that. I was like, I,

this is wild. Yeah. So, um, but they did it. So I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, um, but they did it. So I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, um, wild, wild, wild first episode. Thanks everyone for being here. Um, so much fun talking about the show and, uh, we have a full week of recaps so you know, you never know what's going to pop up next. So everyone stick around and we'll have new episodes coming up soon. Bye everyone!

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Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence that she left him there. In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel

en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask. Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion. And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial,

it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.