Watch What Crappens - #2978 RHOC S19E07 Part 2: See Ya Later, Alligator

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

This is part 2 of 2With Tamra having quit The Real Housewives of Orange County, we now catch up with Tamra, who has rejoined The Real Housewives of Orange County.  More fascinatingly, Tamra’s roofie bomb continues to reverberate as confirmation from an unnamed “reputable journalist” leads the cast to doubt Katie after all. Now, an alliance crumbles, and it’s Gretchen who’s in the hot seat. But also Katie. But also Jenn a little bit.  But still Tamra. You can watch this recap on video, listen to our bonus episodes, and participate in live episode threads at patreon.com/watchwhatcrappens.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Watcher Crappins ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. What's what happens when there's so much than crap is. Welcome back. This is part two of a two-part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, we'll go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. So that way, you always get your episodes. But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode. So Tamara's here, Dr. Michaela. And, uh, the doctor's like so. What's been going on with you? How are you feeling? Well, you know, I've been like really anxious and stuff because I was

fighting with Eddie. And he had to like literally hold my dad and calm my dad. Oh, Doctor! Yeah, you know, I went to Big Bear and I had to isolate myself. It was so hard, I was so alone, I was so bullied. You know how in the Big Bear, they had big wooden bears at every place. Every time they were going, wow, so stop bullying me. You pay something into me. I think about my arms and Big Bear, so me, did me?

But then I have to go to therapy, because I have to do the scene or I don't get paid for this episode, so here I am. It was so important for me to cut the Big Bear, and to be isolated on a loan, And that's what I was. Alone. And Big Bear. She has some footage that some person took of me being alone. Just so you know that I was alone with another person who could film me. Look at me.

I'm sitting on a log all alone where somebody's hiding behind a tree taking a picture. I love that. It's just Tamara. I'm so alone sitting on a log. Someone took the picture, Tamara. I know. So she's like, well, I confronted this girl about taking roofies, about talking about roofies. is and I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her.

That's, oh, you're, what I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her. Sorry, I wanted to give her a chance to make me believe her. It's something like that. I'm inviting you, I'm inviting you to say something truthful so I can finally believe you. I'm giving you the floor to change your narrative so it fits mine. Would you like to take that chance? And then I just remember Gretchen yelling at me and Gina yelling at me and Jennifer making a voodoo doll

that was trying to cop in my entire life. When I called the car, I said, take me to the airport. And then when I'm driving, I looked, the driver was a bignet. I was just such a mess. I was such a mess. And prior to dinner, I called Teddy, and Teddy didn't answer.

And I just thought Teddy died or something. So that's when I took half a Xana. everybody. I don't even remember anything. I don't remember anything after that. And we hear you see a flashback of her calling Teddy and Teddy's voicemail goes, hi, you've reached Teddy. Don't leave a voicemail. And Tim was like, Teddy, I'm leaving your voice mail. I just have you doing okay. I'm on camera right now. So America needs to see that I care. It's a very Teddy voicemail greeting. It's like, hey, I'm Teddy. Um, don't leave a voicemail. Beep. But I love that she still

leaves a voicemail. Because I think that Teddy sincerely is like, really, don't leave a voicemail. I don't deal with your voice. But I also like that Teddy just starts with, hi, I'm Teddy. Hi, I'm Teddy. Hi, I'm Teddy. You reach my voicemail. Don't leave a message. I was just upset. So I took a Xanax and two drinks.

It's because Teddy's sick, everybody. I just don't want people to see that side of me, the side of me where I get caught taking ZX and drinks when everybody's seen that side of me nine million times on these episodes of this show. Like Tamara, we all know the only, we know now what it is, but we've seen for years when you show up with your little black beady eyes and act like that. It's not like the first time that this has ever happened. And I love that she's like, you know, you know, they, they knew I did something.

They could tell. And we just see these like little bubbles of like flashbacks. Like here's Tamara having trying to have this very serious therapy scene. And they put up a little bubble of Gina going, you sloshed. And then not one of them called me Not one of them No one's even concerned about me After I tell them all the fuck off and die

I mean it's crazy Like no one even cares how I got home and nothing And the doctor's like Uh huh and how do you make sense to that honey She's like they don't care about me They don't like me I feel rejection I like to think

I have to think Does this person like me Now wherever I go I'm like this person like me The day I went to buy a tank top and bear Big Bear and I was like to said, I didn't like me, probably nine, probably didn't rest me for my child and other sides. I've been bullied, pulling right back out. Am I allowed to talk?

So Doc is like, you're very wounded. And I would say just a little bit annoying. That's part of your pathology. Yeah, well, after my dad left my mom and Sidney left me and quiz nose closed down, it's just hard to get close to someone. I put a wall up. It's a wall. There's a bother me talk to my dad

And you know, Sydney and stuff I just feel like I'm never good enough I just don't know what my play's it anymore It's almost like you can't accuse people of stuff And trying to ruin their lives and stuff Without them saying something back, can't you? It's just not right So then

Tamara Such a Tamara scene, oh my God Tamara's therapy is the gift that keeps on giving I love it I love how she comes in there Just like, it's like with Jacks of his like his rehab scenes Tamara coming in there crying and being like, oh, my God, am I even allowed to talk?

I can't even say anything. People don't like me. I'm never good enough. Oh, what was me? And it's like you're like completely reframing her wretched behavior that happens all the time. Oh, it's perfect villain behavior. It's like, wow. So that's what you're wearing tonight.

I mean, you'll look a little heavy. God, that was really shitty of you to say, oh, I'm sorry. I can't say anything. I can't say anything. Oh, okay. Cancel culture. So then we go to Emily and she's home with Luke and the family, et cetera. And so they're trying to get Luke to eat some food.

It looks like he's eating some fries, whatever. He doesn't want to eat any sweet potatoes. It's funny because they're like, she's like, you want to have some sweet potato? And he's like, no way, Jose. And he's like, it's orange. And they're trying to show this as like further evidence, which I don't doubt, you know, he has a eating disorder. But also like, to be fair, as a kid, you might not want to eat sweet potato.

like I was like kids are you know yeah that is part of it it's like okay and so would you like some broccoli brussels sprouts no

oh my god so you don't like orange food well I mean Keller would try anything the normal one would eat it I'm like God how is like watching you deal with this is like hard

it's hard to watch even as a non-parent I'm just like oh my God and while I watch it I'm like, don't say anything. You're not supposed to parent shame. You don't understand what this is like. This is not your lived experience.

And I get all that. But at the same time, I'm like, oh, my God, you're going to, you're going to, why are you doing this? Stop it. I think that she's trying to be like, stop it. I think she's trying to be like, hey, it's okay. Look, Caler eats it. It's totally fine. But it's really coming off as like, Keller eats it.

What's wrong with you? Hey, non-freak. You want to try sweet potato. See, that's how you do it. Shane is like, okay, let's get him out of here. So they, the kids go off and he gives like Emily this really, really long hug. Like he doesn't want to leave Emily, et cetera. So they go and, and Emily starts talking about how when she was in New Orleans,

Luke was calling over and over and over again and sort of made her feel bad. And she's talks about how. But then we see evidence of this. And every time he answers, she just puts it on like, go to voicemail. I just feel so guilty as a mom You have a child in crisis And he called me over and over again And then they show him calling

And she's like, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail It's like man, the editors hate your ass Because that's, she was probably just like Pressing likes on tweets or something And the editors were like, yeah, let's just show Emily Pressing ignore on her child in crisis over and over That's cold, you guys, come on. So she says that he started like, when she came home, he was talking like all baby-like and regressive.

And Shane's like, yeah, but when he's when you're not here, he's like, he's like normal. It's just like when you're here, he talks like a baby. I'm not saying that you baby him, but maybe it's time to throw out the baby bottles. You know what I'm saying? So they're talking about this. Yeah, she's like, no, but it's neurological. That's how, why we have testing, Shane. And Shane's like, okay, but if it's neurological,

then we have to work around it, you know? I mean, you go to New Orleans, he gets up, he gets ready and go to school. But when you're here, he texts you all day from school, he won't go, he won't leave, he's hugging you. Like, some of it is just an act for your attention, Emily. And she's like, he's possibly autistic and you're simplifying it. He's basically like, well, now I'm getting mad because, like, you act like I have to, like, cry and be upset and consider, like, I don't have to, like, I care just as much as you do. but you're making it seem like because I'm not like expressing all these emotions that I don't feel the same way and then he tells us and I was sort of like I was sort of like I kind of like Shane's perspective on this and then he starts saying how well I'm more sensitive to my girls and maybe that's wrong but like you know for me like whatever he's like if we're me I wouldn't send the boy like send him to a specialist right away because like the I'm always some of my boys you have to like you know like toughen up and like walk it off and I'm like well I don't know like like If there's something that needs to be addressed, like, go to a specialist.

Can we, like, step out of our gender roles for one second? I mean, I think what he's just trying to say is kids are kids, and you don't know how much of it is a kid being just an odd kid and going through a phase or how much of it is an actual thing. And, like, his way is just kind of taking it at the kid's pace and figuring it out as they go along. And Emily is, like, freaking out over every little thing and trying to label it as, oh, God, it's got to be this disease. or that disease or it has to be autism or it has to be an eating disorder. And he's like, can we just like chill? You know, because even if it is those things, it's not like we're going to throw the kid. It's not like there's something instant you can do where you can just throw the kid into some

kind of a machine and change everything. You're going to just have to kind of learn how to deal with it as you go along, right? And so I think he's just got that more chill attitude where she's in like, we have to fix it mode, which, I mean, I can see both sides. Obviously, I'm more of a shame, you know. I mean, I was just raised to be like, you're not going to the doctor unless you are bleeding out of your eye, you know? But then I also had phases of growing up where I was diagnosed with a lot of different stuff that at that time was like, what even is that? It's like dyslexia or ADD and stuff like that.

I was diagnosed with that stuff that was younger. And we were just like, me, sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me, you know. And then as an adult, yeah, I do still type words in jumbles, as you see in the. my notes constantly there are moments where I have that and ADD I think anyone who listens to the show can probably vouch for that one being correct but I don't know it's like is one is one version of parenting better than the other I don't know uh I don't know I think it's actually good to have the balance I think it's good to have someone who is concerned and is like it's like we should look into this I think it's also good to have someone who is saying like let's also like

let's not make our child lose in his mind like he's still like he's still a kid and we can't make him we can't treat him like like we we can also let him just go out in the world and exist too so I think the balance is good but where Shane I think is not great is that like Emily is obviously emotional about this

and he is as usual not very supportive when she needs some she needs some support from her partner and he's kind of like why are you acting like this okay well okay we can hug fine And he's like, it's like, it's one thing for him to, I think, maybe be more stoic around the whole situation. But I think when it comes to your wife and she's going through it, like maybe step up a little bit and try to like do something to put her at ease because she is your partner.

Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. But I can also see his side because you see him try to be patient with Emily during these conversations where he's just obviously thinking different. And he doesn't want to label it all these things just he's not ready to go like whole whole hog on this and emily is just being kind of so over the top about every little thing like he didn't want a french fry oh my god this is a huge thing isn't eating this and he's like oh my god it's normal for a kid to not want a fucking french fry so right i think he's trying to be patient and it's there is a sense from emily like well i care more because i'm crying a lot and like how can you not care that our son has this disease. I mean, I would feel like she's saying that to me when he's like, it doesn't mean

I don't care. It's like, just because I'm not going into histrionics about a sweet potato, it doesn't mean that I don't care about our son. So please don't insinuate that. But I do see what you're saying as far as like when somebody's really going through it, it doesn't really matter if she's right or wrong. She still needs somebody to just be like, listen, everything you're saying, if you're correct about every single thing and he has an eating disorder and he's autistic and he has all of this other stuff it's going to be okay and we're going to get through it together and you don't need to pick it all on yourself you know he needs she he needs to like be able to do that too yeah i think because i i i do like when he's sort of being like hey if it's neurological thing

nothing to be upset about like it's just who he is you know and you just will work around it and make accommodations he's trying to sort of like he's trying to be actually very like like a return to normalcy like hey it's okay we can be normal like you don't it's nothing to cry over like if this is just the way he is it's the way he is we love him all the same right i think he's trying to come from that tactic but i think that like i think that emily just needs reassurances that everything's okay and i think she's yeah she also has all these other issues about being a mom that come from her own childhood so she's just sort of going through it so that's what happened in that scene uh then we go over to tamera barrel of monkeys over at that house great times great

So we go, we go over to Ospie and we have Heather meeting up with, with Tamara. And they have it like, like Tamara is very cool. She's like, how are you? I'm sad. You may have noticed. I love Dr. Peli. Like, that's her whole vibe. So Heather's like, how are you most importantly?

And by most importantly, I put that in air quotes. It's more like least importantly because you should be asking me how I'm doing. I just have had to put floors into a mansion that I'm going to sell at a loss. I just wanted you to know, this is a very sensitive scene with you, Tamara. So I ordered peppermint tea instead of shrimps. I'm feeling things. This is me feeling. Okay.

So what happened now that our handsome waiter, Cody, has come and left. Because that guy, Cody, is like, hey, everyone, I'm Cody. I'll be your waiter. Would you guys like some bicep? or triceps for your appetizer. All right. Bye, everyone. Oh, I'm here to serve your tea bag.

Whoa. Whoa. Cody. Wow. Well, I guess I'm doing a little bit better than I was. I don't know if you saw the social media post-tag mental health that I was sitting on a log all alone, a big bear. I was salating.

I was leading. Not even the bears were talking to me, big man. Yeah. You know. But, you know, I felt like you walked into dinner in a good spot. You had a big smile on your face. Yeah, because I thought for once, we got Gretchen on the side. We got our Gretchen on the side, and we were going to just roast Katie.

It looked great. Everything was going our way. And I talked to Gretchen, and I thought that I believed what she said. But then I thought back about her acting. I was like, hmm, no. Yeah, she was basically saying she believed Gretchen's act of being so horrified at what Katie is done. But it all turned into a plan to ruin Tamara's plan. Tamara, you don't even sound how you sound.

Like you don't even understand how you say Because it is what you said I mean basically what she's saying is like I talked to Gretchen I had all ready to go And then before the dinner Gretchen decided She wasn't going to go on with my plan

Do you know how upsetting that is Do you know how saying it is? That's what she's offended about She's like When she says that she said When I thought back to her acting She's literally saying Like wow she led me on

And to thinking she'd be on my side But then she wasn't on my side In trying to drive a wedge between her and Katie. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappence commercial. It's your man, Nick Cannon, I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at night.

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So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad-free? Join Wondery Plus right now. So this is where it gets really wonky. So Tamara says, okay, and I said to her,

did you tell Katie at any time that you had to go to the hospital? And then we see a clip of unaired footage of them being in the van. And Tamara said, she's asking Katie and Gretchen, no, no. She's asking Gretchen. And Gretchen's kind of whispering because she doesn't. doesn't want it to be on camera probably, but she's like, yeah, but I did have to go to the hospital because I was so sick. So like, yeah, she said there that she did have to go. And she told her

that. And so Tamara's like, and Gretchen is a queen of denial. You know, didn't say I went to the hospital. Well, yeah, you did. So which one is it? And then we see the clip of this is where Gretchen is in the confusing pink dress that was freaking me out that says, I didn't go to the hospital. I felt so sick that I should have gone to the hospital. So Gretchen's a goddamn liar, too. This is where I almost threw shit at the TV. I was like, wait a minute. You're all liars? All of you?

Come on, man. Well, because she knows that this is going to go, like, what Gretchen probably knows is that this is Tamer's ploy. This is Tamer's immunity agreement that she's offering to Gretchen, which is, if you co-sign that you said this, I won't come after you. I'll use it to go after Katie. But Gretchen is afraid that Tamara's can go back on the immunity agreement and turn it into an issue of like, how could you tell people that I roof with you? That's illegal. You should never, blah, blah, blah, blah, she knows this is going to be used against her. So now she's like, oh, I'm going to hedge.

I'm going to actually, like I did say that, but now I'm, you know, I don't want to get involved because I know this will be used against me and I don't want to go back to naked wasted. That's my interpretation of it. And of course, Tamara is going to do that exact thing. She is going to revoke the immunity, I guess because Crutchin didn't hold up her end of the immunity bargain. But now, now this fight, I guarantee in four weeks from now, I'm going to be like, what caused all this mess in the first place. It's all

just, this whole thing is going to spiral out of Tamara, just trying to turn Gretchen against Katie by saying that Katie has been telling people that Gretchen has been saying that Tamara Ruthvener. My God. So Tamara says, oh yeah, I had some suspicions going into dinner that it

wasn't going to work out. So I got triggered. I got triggered. You know, so I knew I was going to get upset, so I didn't want to get upset. So instead of getting upset, I took Xanax. I mean, God, I'm just out of an island by myself. What am I supposed to do? It was to start taking a vitamin before race. Hello.

Hello. My turn. My turn. What about me? I was worried about you. I sent a text to Terry and said, I wonder what's going on with Tamara. Did you not know that? Hey, Terry, you have a show called botched.

Could you have one that's called psychologically botched and find out what's going on with cuckoo pants over there? Because, geez. So Tamara goes, I didn't get a call. And then Heather, just all of a sudden, it's almost like, it's like the cape comes out and the evil queen is there. And she goes, excuse me? I called you that night. I spoke to you on FaceTime and you hung up. Then I texted you.

How are you? Where are you? And you know what do you do? You text me. You call me. Guess what? The tables have turned. This is my fight now.

And I am the victim of the evening. I am extremely upset, and I'm going to show it by doing my underbite anger look. You notice when she does that? She just her thin out, she puts like her upper teeth under her lower teeth, and she's, hmm. Yes, this is when she has not only the claw hands, but she has the okay symbols. Yes. And no. Okay, then, okay, then fine.

And she's like, I have been Tamara's friend, and I have stood by her to the detriment. Is that too big of a word for this audience? Okay, I'll keep going. Just replace it with something else. To the detriment of my relationship with other people. And I think the bare minimum, you can text back. I think I've earned that. You, you, what you're doing, going to social media and multiple podcasts before talking to me.

And how can you understand how that might be? upsetting to me, to me. Why can't Jen to say how I was feeling? I feel not alone, not even a bear who talks to me, a big bear. You know how they're doing? I do. I do. I do.

You're trying to make me sound like a bad person, but I'm sorry, Heather that I didn't make you feel more comfortable when I was in the feet of position, darned on the ground. That's not what I'm saying. What you're saying this? I was reaching out. to you. I was reaching out to you. Rich person to less rich person, also known as a poor, and caring. And I was being a very caring person, as I've learned in my Stella Adler acting classes. You go like this. Oh, how are you? That's caring. Congratulations. And you threw me out.

I felt like I wasn't important to you. Do you know what it's like to have to relive? Why your dad doesn't want to talk to you. And in the meantime, your best friend gets the brain cancer. I'm going to do so much. I'm going to do so much. Stop it. None of those are an excuse to be evil. That daughter hasn't talked to you forever.

Okay? That's not like fresh news. And this teddy cancer stuff is not your fucking free pass to be a dick to everybody. I can't even believe she's using it like that. That is so gross. Stop using other people's pain and real-life traumatic storylines. to your own advantage. That is so gross.

He does that. It was so gross, but so hilarious. Cornered that she pulls out, she pulls both the Sydney and the teddy card at the same time. Oh, my God. And Heather just has to be like,

she does that thing where she like, she puts all her force in her face right into her lips, closed, just, I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm very sorry about that. But she tells us, you know, I feel bad for her, but she's not going to listen to me. We don't have any room to continue this conversation because she's just, you know, she's basically like, okay, she's whipped out the trauma cloak, so this conversation's over. What are you going to do?

I thought about using my Reba McIntyre card and talking about the time that Reba ignored me when I went to Spagos, but she's not. I know what it's like to be frozen out. Have you ever heard of a little show called Happy's Place? Well, I hadn't until it had already been filmed. Listen, you can always call me or text me even if you just want to vent And I will check that voicemail later So just know that Just know that somewhere Alfredo is reading that

And thinking, hmm, should I give this to Heather or is she going to throw the phone at my face again Did you know that if you order fried oysters in a baguette in New Orleans? They call it an Alfredo amazing Okay, not serious question What's more beautiful? Did Siramis you here? Oh, the waiter. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Stop. So then we go to Katie and Matt at home, and their son's there. And she's like, can I, honey, make me a martini. He's like, you want a martini, mom? She's like, Mommy needs a martini, okay? Just shut up. Do your coloring or whatever it is you're going to do. Go to bed.

I don't even care. Okay. So then they sit down. And then meanwhile, at Goat Hill Tavern, Jen shows up to meet Emily and Gretchen comes. Gretchen's like, um, what is this place? Gretchen did not even bother looking on Yelp beforehand to see where she's going. Also, Gretchen has, I guess, now fully transitioned away from being like the Texas party girl that she was when we met her because she is in like a fur coat and she's just like dressed up like she's going to. Javier's and they're just in a dive bar and she's confused. Well, meanwhile, Jen's standing there and like shiny black leather pants and like ready to throw down some bottles of schlitz. Yeah, they look kind of crazy in this bar. But yeah, it is pretty funny that Gretchen is now acting like she's way above being in an Irish pub.

Yeah. Like she's never been in one of these places before when like this was her whole storyline. So the waiter comes over and Emily is like, so I hear your espresso martinis are not great. So I'll take one. God, she's just so fucking rude wherever she goes. She's so rude. And the guy doesn't even care. It's like, whatever, whatever lady.

Espresso martini's are my thing now. So Emily talks about how her son has an eating disorder. And, you know, they just don't know how to parent him, et cetera. And, like, she just doesn't know how to do it. And Jen's like, let's play pool. She's like, I don't want to talk about it. So we go back to Katie. And she's like, oh, Matt, the final night.

Gina comes in and she's like, I called the reporter. And he confirmed that you did tell Giki the story at Mastroes. And did you hear Slade talk about this? Did you ever hear Slade talk about this roofy stuff? And Matt's like, yeah. And I can say this. You didn't make it up. So that's all that needs to be said.

So now we have confirmation that Slade was basically telling everybody that Gretchen was roofy that night. So Katie's like, yeah. All right, guys. Well, after Nola, I felt like I had been thrown under a boss. I gave Gretchen the chance to come clean when I brought up Mastro's and she didn't. And she said she was sure to hammered direct her the night of naked waisted. It was clear as day what she said.

And Jen back in Gretchen tells me all I need to know about those two. So now this trio is going to implode because now Katie is saying that yes, she did say this to Kiki Monique, but she didn't admit to saying it because she was covering for Gretchen because Slade had already called them and said deny, deny, deny, deny. So that's what she was doing. But now she's getting screwed because Gina called the reporter. And she's basically saying that Jen is continuing to cover for Gretchen, but Katie is not going to cover anymore. But just to be clear, she still is not admitted to calling Kiki. She's just saying now somehow it's a mystery how Kiki found this out. But Gretchen did say it. Gretchen did say. Gretchen did say Gretchen and Slaid did say it. So that's

where she's at right now. So now back at the bar, Jen's like, okay, let's talk about this Katie thing. You know, I want to support Katie, but I mean, what the hell is going on? And Gretchen's like, yeah, when I had time to decompress, I thought, am I being naive? Am I? Like, what's the happening? And then I'm like, yes. Yes, you are. So then Gretchen's like, yeah, Katie originally told me that she had no problem saying that she would try to clear this up. And then we see a clip of Katie saying like, you know what? I'm going to call Kiki. And we'll we'll bring it up on camera. But then all of a sudden, Kiki, I mean, Katie backed out and is like,

no, I'm not going to call it Kiki anymore. She's like, yeah, you know, it's just really late over there. I was going to say FaceTime, but am I really ready for a face? I don't know if I'm really ready for that. I mean, she'll just lie anyway. She's just going to lie. So Katie's like, well, I mean, why am I to blame? Gretchen Slid are the ones spreading all this and making this story up.

And real talk, wait, back it up. Am I saying what really happened or am I protecting Gretchen? Like, what do you want me to do, producers? Matt, the producer said, please protect Gretchen. So it's really highlighting the producers' shadiness in all of this, too. So the producer's like, okay, well, just tell me what really happened. Let's go there. She goes, okay, all right, gather around, everybody.

Here's another version of the truth by Katie. After Matt spoke to me when this info about Kiki came out, Slade called Matt and said, tell Katie to say that Gretchen never said it. And I have to hold the line and protect Gretchen. So if Kiki's claiming that I knew this story from Gretchen, the only time I've hung out with Gretchen was with Ryan and Jen. So they would have heard it. So why am I blamed for it?

Why isn't Jen in trouble for telling Kinky Monique is basically what she's saying, right? Like, why am I blamed for calling Kiki Monique when Jen and Ryan were also there and heard this story? Because, Katie, we know that you went to lunch with. Kiki Monique. We don't know that Jen went to lunch with Kiki Ma. I mean, Katie, girl. This is also so fucked up because we all saw, whether there was Roofies or not, we all saw that there was a plan to get Gretchen wasted at that party. There's a plan to supply her with alcohol. And of course, you're responsible for what you put in your body. But like we all saw it, we all know it. It's a legendary scene in Housewives lore for a reason. And yet somehow we're now in a place

where like Gretchen has to be protected, like, oh, no, Gretchen said she was roofied. Like, we can't let that out. Like, she said that. Like, Gretchen was the victim here. Gretchen was like, if you ask me, she was the victim. And now all of a sudden, and now all of a sudden, like, we, it's like, oh, we have to tiptoe around the fact that she felt like she was roofied. Like, I kind of think that's bullshit, too.

Like, she should be allowed to say, like, yeah, I think I was roofied that night. You know, especially if she went to hospital. Well, I'm wondering if Gretchen is worried about getting sued or something. I think she's worried about getting sued. but from Tamara or she may be worried that brought like Bravo would not be happy with her saying that because it makes Bravo look bad because it happened on their watch and she doesn't want to get out the bad side of us whatever it is she's very self-conscious about actually being on the record as making a big claim like that and the truth is this like a lot of people like when they I you hear from so many people first of all there's a lot of people who get roofied which is scary but there are a lot of people who will say like oh I want to a to a bar last night and like i only had like two drinks and i was like on the floor in a way that i don't normally i think someone put something in my drink people will say that a lot and i'm not and it's not discounting it but that's something that people say and i don't think that gretchen should be like

afraid of like having said that ever yeah um and someone sent us a DM this week saying or maybe it was a comment or something saying you guys please don't make it sound like Ryan raped gretchen Ryan didn't rape gretchen she said no and he laid off. So please don't make. Okay, first of all, we never said that Ryan raped Gretchen. But if you watch that episode again, no, that was not as simple as somebody saying no and then somebody backing off. That was her getting progressively more and more wasted. She's completely out of it in the whole episode. And he's over there like putting things in her boobs and he's on her with his hands all over the whole time, following her into the bathroom,

coming onto her really heavy. She said no and he did not just walk away. It was trying to convince her and trying to do all this shit, which you guys know that if this was to get today's standards, that would not fly at all. I can't even believe it did back then. But we're not saying he raped her, but we are saying that man is an extreme fucking creep. And so is his mother. And it's nuts that they got away with this and she's even back here. And it's nuts that she's bringing this all back into the public eye, because it was bad. It was really, really bad. And I'm not being a Janet or an alarmist by saying that. It was bad. It was being, and I don't feel being, and I don't feel being it. And by the way, the commenter was totally nice. I'm not yelling at you. I'm just saying like, come on. Watch it again. But what, but it's just, it's interesting because this, the whole, like, focus of the

argument is now shifting into, like, did Gretchen say it? Did Gretchen not say it? And I'm like, if she said it, I think she's like, well within her right to say it. I think it's, she is. And that's what I said last week. Like, if she says she was roofied, I would believe it because we saw the footage and she looked like she could have been. through feed. So I would, I would totally believe that. And this is also another very typical example of what

happens, I think, a lot of times with victims, where she's now being villainized by the perpetrator, basically, it's like all these years later, you're relitigating it and you're reframing it as if you're being victimized by Gretchen somehow. And that's absolutely fucking bottom of the barrel. It's gross. So basically, Katie feels like a pawn. And she thinks that Gretchen has been caught in a lie. And it's just also kind of a shame because these three are kind of like, I like their little trio. I like that they, like they're dealing with Tamara and Emily and Gina. And I just, I like them, I like them as a trio.

And it looks like they're going to fall apart. Well, Katie's whole, Tamara's plan was. Yeah. And Katie's whole victim act here is ridiculous too. You know, Katie, you were the one who took this information straight. to a fucking podcaster, I mean, a radio person, and laid it out there. Like, who does? Like, that is bullshit, you know?

Like, I'm team Katie for most of this because even though I know she's a liar, she's still fighting people. She's still fighting the person, though I think is the worst. She's fighting the good fight. Right. So, I mean, obviously, she's been full of shit through a lot of this. But you can't be like, oh, now I'm the victim because Gretchen won't admit to saying it. You should never have done what you did, Katie.

Come on. I like you, but your rewrites are just too much at this point. Or just apologize for fuck's sake. What you did was gross. Or Katie should just, should just live in it. Because guess what? If she has to fall out, if she falls out with Gretchen now because of this, it would have been the same as if she had fallen out with Gretchen because she said,

yeah, I did tell Kiki Monique. And like, wouldn't you rather fall out while you stood in your truth? And then people were like, yeah, I like that. She like owns what she says. But instead, she's falling out in a position where we said. say well Katie she says that she didn't say it and then she always comes back so well I did say it so like Katie has I think be just more if you're going to fall out with them anyway then just be more comfortable saying like yeah I was messy she's getting better but she's not quite there

yet no she's not even close and then she turned on Kiki Monique I mean she's been all over the Instagram and everything else and this show saying Kiki Monique's just a fucking liar now and no so what does she lie about exactly because you went to yeah Yeah, now Kiki's the liar. So you went to lunch with Kiki, then where did Kiki get the information about the Rufi if it wasn't from you? Like, it doesn't even make sense that Kiki would just happen to make something like that up when all this happened at Mastro's. Like, your lies don't even make sense now, Katie. Come on, man.

Yeah, Kiki's not going to be like, let me just start up. Like, let me create a rumor about something that happened 12 years ago. No. So Gretchen is saying how she feels like she has to call Kiki Monique now, which is what they should have done. all along. And Jen is saying, I mean, playing devil's advocate, if Gretchen did say this, then why would Katie repeat it to a blogger? Or a radio host. And Gretchen says, I need to get to the bottom of this. And so next week, Kiki, Kiki makes her grand appearance on Orange County. And we're going to see what happens to settle the score and put it all out there.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. What a mess. But this was really a good episode. And all these things, came unfolding that I didn't think we're going to unfold. I mean, really, really. These are the best seasons. The best seasons are when there's like a small thing and a build and then something else grows out of it and gets bigger and bigger and bigger. As opposed to the bad seasons are the ones where they try stuff and it doesn't work. So it's this episodic like here's another three week storyline and here's another, but this is just like it's growing, it's snowballing. They're whipping themselves into a frenzy over something honestly that like really is not worth ripping themselves into a frenzy for. But they're doing a great job at it. Yeah, good times, everybody. Well, thanks so much for

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