Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - A Disappearing iPhone Charger? iPhone 12 Model Leaks? Where is the Pixel 5?

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

First up in tech news is the sudden demise of streaming platform Mixer and all the myriad ways this affects the overall livestreaming space. Then, we conduct a classic devil's advocate debate about the rumors regarding Apple not including a phone charger with the upcoming iPhone 12's. And with "Smartphone Season" almost upon us, we also cover iPhone 12 model leaks, Galaxy Note 20 rumors, and the elusive Pixel 5! Finally, we close everything out with another Q & A. Links: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com Music by Kamren Barlow: https://bit.ly/2JSbKTd iPhone No Charger: https://bit.ly/2ZdIQ7R iPhone 12 Model: https://bit.ly/2W4nurI Pixel 5 Rumors: https://bit.ly/3gI3vXx Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Hey, what's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Waveform Podcast.

We're your hosts. I'm Marques Brownlee. And I'm Andrew Manganielli. And in this episode, we're going to talk about chargers in boxes. Every phone should come with a charger in the box, right? Right? But really, there's a lot to discuss with phones that are leaking, like iPhone 12 and Galaxy Note 20, phones that are teasing, like ROG Phone 3 and OnePlus Nord,

and phones that are, weirdly, not showing up at all, like Galaxy Fold 2 and Pixel 5. Let's get into it. All right, we're going to go a little out of order here on this one. Usually, we do the recap of the previous videos first, but I feel like the videos we're going to talk about have a a lot more conversation. Yeah, it's going to be like a big portion of this episode probably. So what we're going to do is we'll jump into a small little bit of tech news first, and then we'll like really dive into all of that. Yeah, so I think we're going to talk about streaming wars a little bit, which we've talked about in the past, but let's revisit because there's a lot of stuff that happened. It's like a recurring dream, like a recurring topic. It just comes

back up over and over. It's a fun one, and it's like it's kind of got that drama that we don't get in the tech world a little bit but like we don't get that youtube beauty youtube drama but we get we get some okay um all right so the first big thing was last time we talked about this we were talking about mixer and how they signed shroud and ninja and that. And that was like huge news. Like here's Mixer, someone who's finally going to compete with Twitch. Well, Mixer's gone. They're done for. Mixer's gone.

They ended that. That news broke in the middle of WWDC. Did you catch that? I literally didn't catch it. You told me about it. I was in the middle of a conversation with you about how Mixer just had some like, a post that came out

about how they treat some people not too great and blah blah blah and it looks bad for mixer and then you're like oh well mixer's gone and i was like wait what i they did it was beautiful so sometimes apple will sort of know when big announcements are coming from companies and then they'll drop their own little small announcement but because it's apple it like dominates the headlines anyway. So there's like Google IOs happening. Google's giving their biggest announcements on stage. And then Apple gives like a small like iOS update.

And then suddenly everyone's talking about Apple. It's really frustrating. This was almost the opposite. We're like everyone's feed for the past hour was just dominated by here's a new iOS feature. Here's a new Apple thing. Here it is. Here it is. Here it is. The whole tech world's got their eyes on this live stream and then very quietly there's just like oh by the

way mixer died late peace like quick just peace out like just a quick little headline and then more apple more apple it got buried so fast yeah uh so yeah i did i did catch that but it was uh it was quiet so like in the streaming community the big questions here are Ninja and Shroud just got paid a ton to switch to Mixer, which was kind of like a, is it worth the money based on how you're going to lose a ton of concurrent viewers because people aren't on Mixer as much. So now they're in this situation where they probably got a decent portion of

that contract, if not all of it. And now they're free to stream wherever. So, uh, did it, why did it not work get that bag why didn't it work why didn't mixer work i'm actually kind of surprised by it um i was personally rooting for mixer i think twitch has a lot of issues that they're not really working on at all right um and they haven't showed any any type of real change for it so that's kind of made me upset but i think ultimately it's just like viewership is on twitch and when people are

watching live streams they like to switch between the people they like to watch because like if one person starts getting boring or stops playing a game or plays a game they don't like they very easily yeah it's like literally on the left side of the screen everyone you follow so if you're on mixer unless the only two people you follow are twitch and ninja and shroud you're switching between sites at that point right i guess that little bit of extra friction is too much for people for some people i guess yeah i mean i see i see twitch as i obviously don't use it much but i see it as the YouTube of live streaming. And here's what I mean by that. They're so dominant in live streaming that even if they do mess up some stuff or go really late to the party on some features or slack on some things, people will stay with Twitch

anyway because that's where the eyeballs are. And if you want people to just randomly, casually stumble across your live stream, you better be on Twitch. Exactly. Same thing with YouTube. YouTube just did an updated policy that they just emailed everyone about where they will be enabling mid rolls for every video over eight minutes long and not just enabling it, but turning it on by default and using AI to choose where it goes. So if you have videos over eight minutes long that don't have if you have videos over eight minutes long that don't have mid-rolls or even over 10 minutes long. Well, yeah, I mean, in the previous,

you didn't have mid-rolls on anything eight minutes long. Right? Exactly. So if you have videos eight to 10 minutes long, they don't have mid-rolls on, I believe it's July 27th. Every one of those videos by default, unless you opt out, will immediately have mid-rolls in them. And here's the thing. It's like, that's, I think that's really aggressive. I think it's pretty aggressive. It's

a pretty, it's to me, it's like a weird move that YouTube would do that. I know they don't exactly roll in the cash, but like, that seems like just a way to start making more money now. Yeah. But it seems also like an easier way to say, or what they could have done is we're enabling this if you'd like to take advantage of it. Click this one button and opt into all your previous ones. Yeah, I think they know no one would click that button. Like some would click that button. There are definitely some who would. But imagine the difference of like YouTube default enabling every single eight minute video that's eligible for monetization for mid-rolls.

How much more money they'll make from that versus letting people check that box maybe hopefully how many videos on our channel do you think are between eight and ten minutes so didn't actually we didn't do mid-rolls till very very recently yeah even all your old 10 minute videos are gonna i so okay i unchecked the box okay i am i'm not a huge fan of mid rolls but occasionally there's a good break in like a 15 minute video where it's fine i think i'm gonna guess i've enabled mid rolls on 10 10 to 12 videos ever on the channel um that being said yeah there was a lot of 8 to 10 minute videos on the channel where if i didn't go in and uncheck that box manually i'm sure I would notice a spike

in AdSense revenue on the channel, but that would be at the expense of people having to deal with a lot more mid-rolls. Yeah, and let's not assume that the AI's generating the perfect spot for where those are coming in. Listen, YouTube used to pick thumbnails just based on like a random AI decided frame and that didn't even go too great.

So I'm not sure how they're gonna determine what the best like mid-sentence break is when in a video for a mid-roll to get even further from streaming do you remember when youtube it used to be the exact middle of the video was the thumbnail people would add like one clip in just to get a good thumbnail that yeah oh and that was that's another thing is like before they were using AI, it was mainly just because people were gaming the system and abusing it. So they introduced their great new invention, which is we'll find a better way to pick a spot for a thumbnail. But we've seen how that went.

So I don't know how mid-rolls are going to work. But on July 27th, if you start seeing a lot of mid-rolls on your favorite creative channels, it's because they didn't even probably know to uncheck that box and it's just gonna get enabled by default uh we'll see how that goes but anyway so that's why i see twitch is like a the youtube of live streaming is because they can mess up and what are they going to do go to leave to mixer for the day well probably not um so who are the competitors at this point um everyone from mixer was told to go to facebook gaming and that they would help them set up their accounts there and they could keep account names and stuff like that was that like a suggestion pretty much like i don't know if

it's even like an official partnership or anything with them i'm sure there's something there but i don't know anyone on facebook gaming or whatever i get these like weird live streams showing up on my facebook feed every once in a while, but I have no clue what any of that is. People are wondering, Ninja and Shroud haven't announced where they're going yet. I think literally as we're recording this right now,

Ninja's actually on YouTube streaming with PewDiePie, right? Yeah, I think I went to my sub box today and I saw that PewDiePie, he's been live streaming all the time. And I saw right at the top of my sub box i'm subscribed to ninja on youtube apparently so his live stream was right at the top and it was his big debut i'm back to live streaming thing now the mixer's gone and it's on youtube yeah yeah it's it's weird we've had a couple twitch streamers who have done like taken a hiatus or have been banned for a little while and their comeback streams you see

incredible incredible numbers what did what did you say ninja was i i was paying attention to the a hiatus or have been banned for a little while and their comeback streams you see incredible incredible numbers what did what did you say ninja was i i was paying attention to the numbers a little bit i saw pewdiepie has been live streaming a lot he'll average i want to say somewhere between 100 and 150 000 viewers that's very good every single especially not on twitch that's right very good and that's why youtube wanted to work with him on like making this a an often used feature uh i saw ninja's numbers sort of climbed they spiked as he started which is usually how it goes i think it got up to 155 000 and then has been dropping right under a hundred thousand cents so he got to you know pewdiepie's regular numbers with his big debut return to live streaming on youtube but you, you know, I'm sure if that happened on Twitch, that would have been a different sort of story. So yeah, he also that's

he has no exclusivity so far. That's just him streaming on YouTube. I don't know if it was just a random one off event, or I don't know if that's what he's going to continue with. He might be waiting for some sort of a contract. He might be in the contract negotiation, because as far as I know, they probably had some sort of heads up but like a lot of people a lot of smaller mixer streamers that i've seen found out about this through the announcement like that's right they just know all of a sudden like oh my website's shutting down that i i wonder if people were streaming on mixer like watching the wwdc announcement and just like caught that headline just like wait a second what uh yeah no I I would so typically if you're not ninja if you're just a live streamer in this

position Mixer disappears and you have a choice of where to go live stream now it's either Twitch or YouTube probably that'd be my uh to me it looks like if you're not ninja you try to go somewhere where you can get the eyeballs and really build your character so that when it does come time to sign an exclusive, you have some leverage. But if you're already Ninja, you can just stream wherever you want. Pretty much. It doesn't really matter. You're going to get an offer sometime. Yeah.

Or if you even think about with the contracts that now Ninja and Shroud have gotten, they're probably paid pretty well. They could just go to whatever they feel most comfortable with or whatever they like personally. I mean, except for life. So you can kind of just stream whatever you want to do. Good for them. That's amazing. I still, and I still stand with this at the end. I think no matter what platform everyone picks,

YouTube wins in the end because the videos that I think get watched the most are the like recap highlight videos the like video on demand stuff that all of those twitch creators just toss on youtube usually they probably have one guy hired to go through the stream pick all the highlights and make a video and always every single twitch streamer has that and they have millions of views so youtube is the video library you know joe rogan's joe Rogan's podcast going exclusive to Spotify, I believe they're keeping clips on YouTube.

Really? Yeah. Like not full ones anymore. So the full episode won't be on YouTube anymore, but clips from it will still be on YouTube for discovery. And then you can go back and point that to the Spotify episode. Yeah, because that's such a good way to like wonder if you're he interviews so many people you don't know if you're going to necessarily be interested in that but then if you see a clip that's super interesting you're like

exactly so do you know if they're keeping old episodes on youtube or are they moving everything to spotify good question i think the catalog disappears from youtube of of full episodes and they all go Spotify exclusive. I think that might. That's a lot of work. Yeah, because he was doing, you know, it's a whole video live stream podcast, too. So I'm not exactly sure if they're doing video live stream podcasts on Spotify. I don't think so.

But I don't know the details. There's there's actually a lot of rumors going around that Spotify might have some sort of streaming service. I don't know if there's any basis to these there's a a very big twitch streamer who's gotten banned recently and some of the there's no no one knows why and some of the allegations are he's potentially working with the new streaming platform behind the backs of his contract and stuff like that i don't want to get too into drama but like spotify has gotten brought up a couple times in that. So that's interesting.

But that seems to be around where our streaming, the streaming battle war is going. Everyone competes, YouTube probably wins. YouTube wins at the end. Even though Twitch is the biggest, YouTube somehow still wins at the end. Video on demand. That's how it goes.

All right. Well, I think we want to get right into... Let's just talk about Apple not putting a charger in the iPhone box. Let's do it. This is what we're all waiting for. I mean, this is the headlines. And this keeps evolving because there are so many different ways to think about this. The obvious instant gut response from almost everyone is,

what? That's insane. Come on. No charger, really? They need that much more money? They're that greedy? to think about this the obvious like instant gut response from almost everyone is what that's insane come on no no charger really they need that much more money they're that greedy but like there are so many other nuances to pricing and margins and uh e-waste and efficiency that all go into this rumor uh that looks more and more everyday to be true so i figure we can break it down talk about it you know how i want to do it is we each take a side like let's take a side one of us will be apple the other will be the iphone buyer the iphone buyer yeah okay what do you want to be does anyone get to be the android fanboy that just likes to be upset about just chiming in yeah i mean we'll toss that in at the end well there is a samsung headline that i'll get to yeah bring that back but how about i'll be um i don't know do you care what do you want to be i kind of lean towards one way which well uh that's even hard to say i'll be apple okay okay

oh sounds like you're defending apple i'm gonna defend apple here all right yeah so here the the main argument i think of a customer is wow that, that's so greedy, I need a charger. Like, why would you, you can't ship a phone without a charger. I need a charger to use a phone. That's like, it's like shipping a, I think the analogy I made in the video is, it's like shipping a car without wheels. Yeah.

What do you say to that, Apple? What do I say to that? Uh, what do you say to that Apple? What do I say to that? First off, chances are you already have this cable. I think that's the, the easiest way of saying it is you probably have a lightning cable already. It is very unlikely that you're buying the iPhone 12 right now and you don't have a lightning cable? No, I think the distinction is they will still ship the lightning cable. Oh, but not the brick. Okay. Then even more so.

Yeah. You have a USB something somewhere that you can plug this lightning cable into and there's no reason for you to have it. Which is like usually true. I actually think that's probably very true about most people buying a brand new iPhone 12. Like if you think about like their new phones coming out, iPhone 12, 12 Pro, 12 Pro Max. These are going to be, you know, $700,000, $800,000, $900,000 phones. Like how many people gut instant buying these phones don't have a charger?

Exactly. But that being said, okay. So what about just like the principle of like look phones have always shipped with a couple things they always ship with the paperwork they always ship with the charger they always ship with the cable and they always ship with headphones whether i have them already or not i just expect to get that when i spend a thousand dollars for a phone sir mr apple consumer um you also used to always have a headphone jack but i took that away from you a few years ago. And we saw how that went.

Yeah, but like in all seriousness, another thing like on top of the charger is we now have phone, like we're paying extra money to have phones with wireless chargers. So like chances are you're gonna go out and buy a wireless charger or even a fast charging brick

because Apple's been sending it with their slow charger or just regular chargers so like yeah yeah so you're not even getting the full potential out of your phone by just getting a regular charging brick um and then the thing that i'm most passionate about and this is andrew this isn't um apple okay I think one of the things I'm most passionate about in this world is like protecting our world and saving our environment it's something that's like very very near and dear to my heart and I think we're doing a very poor job at it to be frank so like eliminating all the waste that comes into that and it's not just the waste of like most people buying their phone, that charger is going to get thrown in the garbage or it's going to be tossed

in their desk drawer or on a shelf next to them. I always wonder about that because I don't really throw them out, but I keep a lot and I just have tons of them. You keep it, but it will get thrown out eventually. When you move, when you're doing spring cleaning, it's going to get thrown into a box and get thrown out so maybe you don't do it right away but i've definitely grabbed a pile of cables and been like i need zero of these okay toss them in the trash that's fair so just in that sense and it's not

even just those though it's you mentioned in the video if a box doesn't have to include a charger or headphones how much slimmer we can make this box. So you could be cutting waste in half by literally having a box that's half the size. This is, this is where I see like the, the eyes light up of like, there's, there could be a team of people at Apple who are in charge of like presumptive PR where like you need to get ahead of the story and sort of frame it. And I say in the video, like they, they could just go at this entirely from the environmental angle where every single point will come back to you while this is more efficient and therefore saves the environment. So we were talking about e-waste and that's, that's a fair point. And a lot of

people didn't like that. It came from the CEO of anchor who sells batteries and other chargers, but the point is still, is still very true where people throw those things out. And if they already have one and they get one in the box and they throw it out that's pounds and eventually tons and hundreds of thousands of tons of waste that could be eliminated by not shipping things people don't need yeah so that part you know debatable whether you throw them out or not but that's true then the other part is okay now that they're not putting a charger in the box the box gets that much smaller yeah i mean it's a lot smaller that's one of the biggest things in the box so you just have like the cable and the phone and the paperwork basically and you put that in a in a crate you can fit that much more iphone boxes

in a crate and you can fit that much more phones in the crates on the plane you're probably thinking like 30 percent more phones in the bottom of a plane i, you're probably thinking like 30% more phones in the bottom of a plane. I don't know how many thousand they're shipping at a time, but you're saving, now you can say you're saving jet fuel, you're saving like cargo, boat cargo fuel. Like all this stuff comes back to the environment where you're actually being more efficient.

Even the back of the UPS truck on iPhone day, when we talked to our UPS guy where he's stressed as hell in September because he's delivering a million iPhones, like he's gonna have an easier time delivering more phones because more of them fit in the box so i don't know i think that's the angle that they all come it's an angle i think ultimately this argument you're either mad at apple or you're happy with apple and i don't think that comes down to i need a charger in my box't think that comes down to, I need a charger in my box. I think that comes down to, I think Apple is being greedy and looking at profit margins, or I think Apple is taking the correct step and going towards environmentally friendly. You're either, you don't trust them

and you're angry or you do trust them and you're happy. And it's, to be honest, it's probably both. They're probably super pumped. They they're gonna be having great profit margins because i i'm sure we'll talk about in a second or do we think they're gonna cheapen the price that's the that's the last big point is i don't yeah i don't think the price changes at all it's tough because you would think if anyone can get away with this it's probably apple and does a company like apple have to reduce the price of the iPhone to get away with not giving you a charger? And I don't think the answer is yes.

I think they can just sell it at $1,000 again. I also think, to your point, you were trying to subtract what headphones and the charging brick would be. But you have to think of those prices you're taking are also including their own packaging and their own everything, whereas they don't have all that when they're just in the box of that so you're looking at maybe saving like i would honestly say 10 bucks it's not a lot it's not enough to change the actual price of it at all to anything meaningful i i don't think it the actual price will change um so that just turns into money apple saves huh yeah so that just turns into bigger

profit margins of course yeah i oh for me oh we're back to this sorry yeah yeah i'm gonna make a ton of money and all you apple people are gonna pay for it and never get to charge your phone the thing is there's also a lot more rumors about more expensive components in the iphone because this is the first year of a 5g iphone potentially this is the first year of a high refresh rate iPhone potentially. And I think mostly those 5G modems, you're starting to look at like, okay, these cost a little bit more. Do we want to be the company that bumps the price of the phone up for the 5G version? Or do we just have them all be the same price and they all have 5G? And we kind of brag a little bit about that on stage. And then later everyone realizes there's no charger in the box, but hey, at least we got a 5G phone for the same price.

I think it's kind of some of that too. I also agree with you in the video where you say you don't think they'll just ignore it. Right. I think they're going to mention it. Yeah. And they're going to mention it in an environmentally friendly standpoint because that's, like you said, the best PR way of doing it. And once again, you can be doing things that are helpful, but that are also for personal gain. And I think that's kind of this in-between route, which is way boring because it's way more fun to just have some drama and be really mad at somebody because they're greedy or be really happy because they're helping the world.

somebody because they're greedy or be really happy because they're helping the world but look it's really easy to hate on the easy evil character that is apple that is just greedy for margins and sells things for a million bucks and and we we see that all the time but i think i think the best analogy for this and i i really am sticking to this some people wanted to tear it down but i want to go back to it is this is like like selling like a DSLR without the lens. And now if you look back, okay, selling a DSLR without the lens, you need a lens to have a DSLR function and take any pictures. If I spend $500 on a Canon 60D or whatever I buy, and I get it out the box, I cannot use it until I put a lens on it, right? A lot of people were looking up, wait, if I go on Amazon right now, and I just look up DSLRs, or if I look up Canon

DSLRs or something like that, they all come with lenses. But to that, I say almost all of those that you're looking at when you're just searching on Amazon for DSLRs are all the entry level. Think like iPhone SE, like mid-tier, lower- tier price in the dslr world and so those all come with a discounted starter lens we call it a kit lens and 18 to 35 and 18 to 135 or something like that and it's not a great lens but look it's it gets you started it's functional now you can take pictures out the box yeah people buying those don't have a lens already but an iphone like an iphone 12 or an iphone 12 pro you're talking a thousand dollar phone these are the upper tier like the high-end phones literally more expensive than the dslr analogy exactly so they're they're much more

expensive so if you look at an equivalent higher end dslr get into uh I don't know, Canon 5D. Never comes with a lens. Never comes with a lens. And that's because people buying a $2,000 Canon 5D at the upper end already know what lenses they actually want to use with it. Probably already have the lenses they want to use with it. Kind of the same way someone buying a $1,000 iPhone already has a fast charger, a wireless charger, whatever it is. And they're not mad that they're getting gypped about spending $2,000 on a DSLR and not getting a lens out of principle. It's like, that's not something I was going to use. Honestly, they might have thrown it away. Honestly, if someone buying a 5D got an 18-35mm f4, probably isn't going to use that lens for what they're buying a 5d for so it kind of falls in the

same i think that's a good analogy and it's a great analogy yeah so we're out here obviously making the case that apple should just put the charger in the box how hard could it be um but i'm sure someone on apple's eyes lit up when they realized hey we can we can get some of those profit margins from 5G modems back by not shipping a charger brick in the box. And we have all these great environmental reasons and impacts for doing so. And honestly, if people want a charger, maybe we'll just give them a cheaper charger, a discount if you want to buy a 5W charger.

But we're still going to sell a fast charger for way too much money and people will buy it too. So that's where we're still going to sell like a fast charger for way too much money and people buy it too. So that's where we're at. It kind of makes me think about, um, we've seen a lot of commercials lately about like, I'm just going to compare this to, I'm sure you've seen on TV commercials that have to do with like COVID or something like we support. Yeah. Yeah. My way of thinking about those is like, this is a commercial that is clearly to look good for your company and it's a commercial it's supposed to sell your company but if you end that commercial with that's why we're donating x amount of money to x charity to help fight this i'm completely okay

with you making personal gain off of something that in turn is still going to help someone right so like even if the motives weren't completely uh pure i'm fine with that because it's going to help something in the end so apple is going to increase its profit margins but it also is whether you like it or not going to reduce waste and i think that's tangent one of my one of my least favorite things is like twitter donation shaming when people will go you know and like, obviously people are making these big donations to help fight COVID and help fight diseases. And so,

you know, there'll be like a, a $10 million donation from some billionaire. And you always see tweets like, man, he's got billions of dollars. Why doesn't he donate more? That's not enough.

Look at this guy. He's got, he's got $10 billion and he only donated. That's like me donating 25 cents. It's like, dude, you're really getting mad at $10 million going towards this incredibly good cause. I don't really care if it's a PR move. That's a great use of $10 million. Anyway, that's off.

That's maybe like a slight tangent. I'll just drop that in there. That can definitely go deeper. That is just the very, very tip of that. The tip of that iceberg. We're just saying donations are great. Donations are great whether they're whatever. I have no problem with a $10 million donation to a good cause,

no matter, almost inconsequential to why they're making the donation. Unless you had to murder someone. I don't know. I'm just saying. Go ahead and make that donation is what I'm trying to say. Is there anything else we had on this? That's, I mean, I added one more point at the end, which is something I've seen in some comments,

which is how is Apple, which is, you know, pretty concerned usually about user experience and battery safety and health of the phone. How is Apple going to ensure that customers are using safe chargers? Because you can imagine in a world where Apple stops shipping a charger with the iPhone, the eyes of all of these third-party companies lighting up and feasting and racing to the bottom

to give you the cheapest charger they can put in the Apple store or in a store in front of you, where, oh crap, you don't have a charger? Just grab ours just grab ours it's five bucks carrier stores are going to eat this up there's going to be a lot of case you need this is right next to the iphone in the yeah right next to the iphone in the store you're going to walk into a verizon store and what what's next to the iphone the cases and now these five dollar chargers how does apple justify like okay you usually were selling like the one that's made for the iPhone.

It was a slow charger, but at least we know it would work until it fell apart. Until it fell apart. That's the other thing is they did not hold up very well. They weren't great for durability. But like, how is Apple going to ensure customers use a safe charger at least for their phone? And I don't really have a good answer. I feel like you kind of just have to give them the option to buy the ones you were going to give in the box anyway and make it cheap give them that option or

like i don't think there are that many options out there that i would find are truly like unsafe for a phone yeah it just it's weird because like you think of apple you're like they they go to like the next level like they don't even let you open the back of the phone. They're so obsessed with nobody can mess with this user experience. It's the perfectly dialed crafted thing. We will vault down the CPU so it doesn't harm your battery. Battery tech is all about safety.

But they're also a company who included fast charging, but not a fast charger. So they assumed you were going to buy a safe fast charger anyways. And they're also a company that has wireless charging but doesn't sell a wireless charger that's a great point yeah so i guess it's not much different to be honest i don't think there are enough unsafe slow chargers out there for them to be worried about that they're so cheap already that even the like cheapest companies out there they're probably totally

fine yeah and they'll probably still not fall apart as fast as apple's treasures so that's probably fine uh yeah so i'm sticking with that dslr analogy uh yeah i like that what's funny is from the time this we wrote this to the time we started recording this i literally had a script in here that said how long until other companies follow suit who do you think will be the first to follow and we don't even get to make that guess yeah but we knew on the way in here uh an article comes out that says samsung potentially releasing this year i believe uh next year next year okay so there's reports that samsung that still could be within 2021 yeah we'll we'll not have a charger in the box so before we had stuff like the headphone jack people followed suit but that was after they spent a year making fun of

apple and then another year before they took it away are we just gonna skip the year of making fun of apple on this one we haven't even gotten to the official announcement from apple it's a rumor and there's already companies and i'm sure they're not copying so much but well i mean this is the type of like far and advanced supply chain stuff where you you have to make that decision months before the phone comes out so we're how many months from September now July August September three months four months till the iPhone's gonna come out um we're also three or four months from maybe we're gonna see not three or four months but you know there's phones coming out in like early next year for samsung galaxy s series in march where they're making those types of decisions now and this is reportedly one

of the things they're at least considering um does that probably lower the chances that they do a smear campaign or like do an entire commercial on how dumb it is yeah i think samsung's less likely to do that commercial but hey there's to be headlines and I think someone's going to make fun of them and then flip. So who? Okay, new question. Who makes fun of them? Which company makes fun of Apple and then flips and also ships their phone without a

charger? So who are the, the only companies that have done that in the past are Samsung and Google, right? Google's done that with the headphone jack. With the headphone jack and Samsung made fun of the notch for a while, which they never got the notch. So I guess that's a little different yeah but didn't they make fun of like like uh do they make fun of like ip ratings and because isn't that one commercial where he switches to his he gets his samsung and he like falls in the

water and yeah they've done a bunch they did the headphone jack because they had like a guy on a galaxy note next to this girl who just okay yeah so they have done it yeah they've done a bunch. They did the headphone jack because they had like a guy on a Galaxy Note next to this girl who just... Okay, yeah, so they have done it. Yeah, they've made fun of a bunch of bad stuff. I don't really think anyone... I don't think anyone will make fun... I think they realized how poorly that worked out for them in the past.

I think it's OnePlus. You think it's OnePlus? OnePlus seems like they'd do like a way more subtle jab, not like a full-blown commercial with a guy with a notch haircut yeah they're gonna have they're gonna have like an onstage moment where they're like you know what else comes in the box a charger and then the audience okay there you go well yeah i actually wanted to say that one plus is one of the companies that i think will either either never or last be one of the last to not include a charger in the box because it's like

almost iconic for their box their warp charger is pretty important to their phone so that that actually is probably not going to be as quick yeah i don't see that happening that's actually you know it's kind of funny as so many of the other companies who really pride their fast charging and have like gone to the point where they name it like oppo and their vooc charging and like all these other phones huawei they ship with the fast charger because that charger is an important part of why the charging experience is good on that phone i feel like they can't not ship that charger especially because it's such a big feature on the phone yeah one plus you might be able to make the argument that they finally moved to wireless

charging and now like and maybe if they go full blown into that it's going to be a little different because no one i don't think will ever include a wireless charger in the box oh yeah no that that'll be that'll be maybe in like 2080 or something like that we'll get to that point um but i can't see a wireless charger being in a box in our lifetime so maybe the question is who cares the least about their charger like l LG or something? Like who really, who would throw a jab at Apple and then realize this, wait, our charger's not that special and we also like making high-end phones with big margins.

LG doesn't make high-end phones with big margins. So it could be someone else. I'm honestly not totally sure. I don't think I have a good guess for that. Because I think my guess is nobody but that's such a lame answer that i don't want to admit i guess then maybe the real answer is samsung will actually throw a jab even though they're also four months later immediately flipping and not shipping a charge that might be your best guess yeah well we'll see we'll talk more about samsung in a bit all right we've gone for a while let's take a quick break and then we'll come back.

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You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that thing you love, keep doing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. All right, welcome back. So we got a bunch of smartphones coming out right around the corner. It's July right now. We're fully expecting not just the iPhone in September, but we got some Samsung stuff, some Android stuff, some Asus, some Pixel maybe. We're going to talk about all of this. We've got a lot. But since we did a video on the iPhone 12 models, I figure we'll start with that.

Yeah. Now, you're in the studio here for the podcast, but you haven't seen these models yet. I did the video. Just the video. Yeah, that's all I've seen. So I'm holding them right now.'m gonna hand them to you before we do this can we just say michael our motion graphics guy holy cow if you guys watch this video everything looks real he isn't absolutely amazing i'm sure that video will be clipped out and used for a bunch of things

without your permission because it's so good. And it's the only thing that looks like a real iPhone 12 right now, but Mike, he's, he's incredible, but yeah. And as usual, he pulled that off in like seven hours. He's insane. Yeah. It's really impressive. So if you, if you haven't watched that video yet, check it out. We're going over essentially the model the dummy models that come out of the iphone that are like sort of pseudo realistic based on leaked cad renders for case they've always been very accurate typically yeah pretty accurate and which is why they're interesting to look at several months before the phone comes out as we talk about these things uh and we got three of them here so the iphone 12 the the small one the iphone 12 Pro is the medium-sized one.

And then the iPhone 12 Pro Max is the big dog. Okay, so can I request what order I see them in? Sure. Can I see the Pros first? I'm most excited for the 12. The tiny one? Okay. But I want to have a regular size kind of in my hand first. So let me hand you the standard iPhone standard iphone 12 pro perfect here you go

first thoughts and reactions i mean i like that size hold on my pixel you're using i have a pixel xl pixel 4xl okay it's smaller but like what's crazy is the screen size is almost it literally lines up to that terrible the bottom The bottom of the bathtub, yeah. That's so funny. Wow, I like this size a lot. The edges are fantastic. I like that so much. I didn't get to experience the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 5.

Yeah, flat edges. Flat edge. This feels wonderful. Underrated. So when I talk about this whole thing in the video a lot of what i go back to on stuff that's new that we're expecting or at least hoping for for this iphone goes back to ipad pro actually i did that for the video yeah i saw you just stood it up on its edge just to make sure uh yeah so so the ipad pro has got those squared off sides iphone 12 expected to

have that that design language also squared off sides love that Love that. And that's like, you hold the iPhone and you probably have a case on it and you don't think about it too much, but trust me, as someone who doesn't have a case on the phone and just generally cares about that secure feeling in the hand, it makes a big difference. So that's pretty sweet. You do have a very similar camera system

on the back. They're pretty thin. Now we've seen Zach snap the iPad in half so I don now we we've seen uh we've seen zach snap the ipad in half so i don't i don't think we're gonna have that same problem but they probably should reinforce them a little bit uh to avoid bend gate you know but generally i think they look pretty good it looks great um there's always like some little things that are in these that won't make it to the the final like yeah do you think this black edge between the like i'm so flat silver end and the the glass back so i'm curious about that i actually like it and this is why it

reminds me more of the i said in the video of the iphone 4 than the iphone 5 because the iphone 5 turned that into chamfered edges so it was one unibody piece of metal where this is metal rails but then glass front glass back and has like a very clear division i kind of like it like that i it doesn't feel as apple to me with it being the like two different colors as much as i kind of like the contrast i feel like i don't know yeah they would just have like to have the rails the silver rails and uh right um other than that i like it this extra button you talked about yeah i was gonna go over that too because that's a question that's a big question mark that's a big i'm just

saying as of right now if this is a dedicated camera button i don't like the position it's in because i'm so used to using my right finger as pressing a camera button as soon as i hand you the big one you'll know it's not a dedicated camera because this this big one has the same button in a different place okay so i'm gonna hand you the the big boy so you're holding i just want to say the screen size of that of the standard iphone 12 pro that's about a 6.2 inch screen okay so i'm gonna hand you the big boy the 12 pro max something like a 6.7 inch screen on an iphone check that out that is a big this is about the same size as my pixel 4xl with a case on it yeah i mean much thinner obviously but something about that having that bigger screen though also makes the notch even if it's the same size feel a little bit

smaller because it's less of an interruption of that big screen something i noticed yeah yeah now we also don't know. You know, it literally looks smaller when you look next to them. But like you said, does... We don't know if that notch is... Yeah, they've always been kind of weird with that. Because the bezels in the first iPhone X model we got were a completely different color.

They were white, I think. Yeah, I can't trust the colors. Yeah. Yeah, this is massive. The buttons in it. Extra buttons in a different place. There's another one. And there's this C. And now I doubt this is it.

And this is a model. So there's like nothing about it. But doesn't this look a ton like the razor fingerprint scanner? Or like the next bit Robin. Same thing. Yeah. Same design. The like side fingerprint sensor s10e a galaxy s10e a bunch of phones that would be a terrible place to put it so here's there's a couple things that this could be so what we're talking about is if you hold this iphone you have

the volume button rockers on the left hand side the mute switch is still there if you're looking at the left hand side of the phone on the right hand side near the top have the volume button rockers on the left-hand side. The mute switch is still there. If you're looking at the left-hand side of the phone on the right-hand side, near the top is the power button. Now, if you go down from that power button on the right-hand side, like halfway down the phone, there's another cutout. Now this could be like an inconsistency with just where they cut out the SIM card tray. But a lot of people are reading into this being in the CAD renders as being like, is this a smart connector? Is this something radio related for 5G? Is this like a magnetic charging pin connector for when they go portless?

They're just gonna introduce it in this phone for a faster charging. It's really, here's what it reminded me of and it was too late to put it in the video, but I remember I had an old, think it was a nexus 10 tablet and the nexus 10 had the only way you could charge it was not by plugging it in by usb but it had this magnetic like six pin charger at the bottom to fast charge it sounds like like surface laptop yeah yeah so so you can still use in the Surface laptop,

you can use USB 3, USB Type-C to charge it, but you get much faster charging out of that special six-pin port. And I kind of imagined Apple going, all right, we're going to ship a portless iPhone next year. So this year, we'll get people used to that idea where we have a far superior charging solution with this port on the side of the expensive iPhone. Now, you can still plug it in with a good old-fashioned cable, but you won't want to because of how the fast charger.

I see two problems with that. Okay. My first one is if they're getting you ready for a portless iPhone, why are they adding a new port to it? Well, it's not a port. So imagine like a... It's a port, but it's like a... But it like a it's a port but it's like a but it's not an opening you know what i mean okay it's like the magnetic super semantics on but that's what apple is doing though they're they're really just getting into

like a speaker is still a port right you need a speaker on a phone and they they can't get rid of the earpiece unless they go like piezoelectric or whatever so they're gonna have openings on the phone but they don't want the port for whatever reason so switching to that magnetic like snap on like magsafe it's not an opening but imagine if the magsafe thing just like slapped onto the side in a designated area the way the apple pencil slaps on the side of the ipad like that yeah and i kind of thought that that could happen i would vote or not voting i would not think that mainly because wireless charging also like that just seems like the for sure it would have to charge at like insane speeds to to have this well okay

and then hear out my other point and why i don't think that is we literally just talk for 25 minutes about why they're not putting chargers in a box. So you're gonna have to buy this first party, but if how much are regular charging? Oh, but Apple would do that though. $79.99? Exactly, yeah. Listen, you can go get-

Almost goes into your theory. Yeah, you can go get like a basic cable charger like the old days, but if you want like the nice charging experience and you know people love hearing this from apple if you want the nice thing we made you can go to our apple store and for 80 bucks buy the really nice magnetic charger with the expensive iphone and everyone will know you have the expensive iphone because you got the one with the magnetic thing i guess i'm really playing this out in my head and i think they

could do this here's what i can say if all of this plays out if they don't include chargers if they include this 80 fast charger you're talking about then i can say with almost pure confidence that apple only cares about profit margins and doesn't give a damn about the environment no they're still not gonna ship they're still saving money i'm still and then i'm saying that the environment's their pr thing which i'm still happy about, like I said previously, but profit margins are there if that scenario plays out. We know Apple doesn't actually genuinely need to care a lot about the environment. I mentioned this in the video.

They would support user repair much better if they didn't want people to have to replace whole parts in the iPhone. They would just go USB Type-C if they didn't want to have thousands and thousands of other cables. That is a great point that we didn't talk about. And now we're wrecking this segment with, but yeah, they should have went USB-C, obviously. The fact that they haven't went USB-C makes me think more along the lines of that it will be a portless iPhone soon. Because maybe they're just like, we're so close to that. We're not going to toss C in there. Yeah.

Why? Why throw the whole thing out of whack with like one year to go before portless? So you know what? That's going to be my unofficial prediction. If this. That's a wild prediction. If this turns out to not be the SIM card tray, then my prediction is. It's going to be so boring.

I know. It's just going to be the SIM card tray. But if this extra cutout, because there's one on each side. Yeah, okay. So you're saying one of these is going to be something like that? Then I think it's... The one under volume looks more like a SIM card cutout to me.

It does. Than this one. This one looks too big on the Max. Whereas, so that would be the SIM card cutout on the regular Pro. And weirdly, it's not on the smaller phone, but I think it it would just be in the same place all right let's see so well one more thing so i just want to say

the the two versions of this prediction one my bold prediction this is a magnetic fast charger that apple will sell separately that will prepare everyone for the idea of a portless iphone okay but the actual thought the more realistic prediction is this is probably a window for 5G radios to go through the side of a metal phone faster. Probably. Maybe. We'll see. Okay. That would be interesting also.

So you're saying it's like an extra space that millimeter wave or something can not be affected with. So then it feels like just judging on the millimeter wave stuff we did in Rhode Island is like, okay, I have to point my phone with this judging on the millimeter wave stuff we did in Rhode Island is like, okay, I have to point my phone with this part towards the millimeter wave. It wouldn't shock me if only the big iPhone supported millimeter wave. And if all the 5G support on most of the iPhones was mid band and low band 5G. Have we had like an official rumor or like anything that next iPhone definitely has 5G? It varies with refresh rate.

So those two rumors about refresh rate and 5G are remarkably difficult to predict about which phone will have what. You could say, look, all of the phones will support 5G like the Apple way where they all support 5G the same great way. Or you could say, all right, the cheaper iPhone 12 will support low and mid band 5G. And then the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max will also support millimeter wave. Or maybe the battery is still too small in that 12 Pro and they only do millimeter wave in the biggest 12 Pro Max. And that's where they have a big enough battery and

a big enough phone where they can do that extra radio. And they have a big enough battery and a big enough phone where they can do that extra radio and they have a little cutout in the side where the the bandwidth can go through faster and better that's the the general basic prediction i think i still stand on and this isn't based off of really anything i would my bold prediction is apple still doesn't do 5g this year what at all in any iphone i feel like this is just such a big year with a design change and everything it's not like a selling point that they even need and it's not yeah but the thing is people have iphones for like five straight years yeah and if you're gonna have this exact same conversation we had last time

i said this yeah like people are gonna to have an iPhone 12 in 2025. Yeah, I guess they have to make it capable whether they're not pushing it now. Right. Okay, I take that back. Mostly I do not sound like an idiot because I feel like one right now. It's probably going to have 5G. But here, I'll hand you the smaller. This is the smallest, the 5.4-inch iPhone 12

that will probably start somewhere around 700 bucks again 650 yeah this is what this is what the 11 should have that's a nice compact little phone right there great size this is what i think we underestimate how much people want phone sizes like this again i yeah it's tough because typically when you read into what does a customer want, the answer is usually give me bigger, give me a bigger screen, give me a bigger battery, give me bigger, give me more for the money. I think there's obviously like pros to that. And I think us as enthusiasts see that way more because we're generally mingling with other enthusiasts who want something big. And I also think it's really big for people who have like vision troubles and stuff like that like

being able to blow font size up on your phone to be able to really read it without having any issues and and be able to type on it is is super beneficial but i think the average consumer and i'm talking about like not in this tech bubble at all okay would much rather have something like this i know i mean our friend grover is very very adamant about wanting a small phone he is not happy with his isn't he like not upgrading because he got a 10s because he just had to but he didn't want to at all and like he would love this size this is smaller than the 10s it's smaller than the new se and it's it's a little bit smaller uh it's smaller than the previous iphone uh 11 i think this is like the epitome of a consumer phone of like i'm walking well se price might beat it

out but like yeah this is this is entry-level premium where like you everyone knows the iphone se for 400 bucks is a great it's a much better deal but when you get to like okay you want 4k video you want you know a second camera for example that has the old slide on the back you want face id instead of a home button you want that full like iphone with a notch look yep you get up to the premium and you stop there that's that phone and you're not going to the next level 5g or anything crazy at that here actually that's a good segue to also the one other feature i want to go back to which is high refresh rate yeah um it's also kind of tough to nail down what would they do about high refresh rate because i could

easily see that iphone 12 that small phone not having a high refresh rate either. So only the Pro models have it? Maybe even only the bigger Pro model. That would annoy me. That would annoy me too. That would make me mad. You would think Pro, ProMotion, put in the Pro phone, right? That would make me upset similarly to how last year the Note 10 had the two different sizes

but were completely different specs on everything. Yeah, weirdly. I wanted to just have two size options. When I i'm thinking when it's the same exact name grabbing the two wrong phones here when it's the same name the only difference is one is like max or plus or ultra maybe ultra is a little different but like the bigger that just means it's saying the size is a little different and the only benefits i think you should get out of that is a bigger screen and ultimately a bigger battery that's gonna average out to about probably the same screen on time because it has to deal with the bigger screen yeah so here's what i'll say apple typically

is the best company at uh parity in their lineup so when they have a, an iPhone and an iPhone plus, it's usually all the same, except just bigger, uh, where we've, I've complained. Yeah. The button, this is, it's not very well built, but, uh, when, when you talked about the galaxy note, like that happens a lot where there'll be like, Oh, one or two extra gigs of Ram on the big one too. Oh, I didn't notice that. Or, Oh, there's like a, a weird quirk where there's an extra like camera on the bigger phone or something like that. Apple's typically pretty good at not doing that. And so that's why I think I expect to see

high refresh rate either on both Pros or neither. But there's some really compelling arguments for battery where unless Apple can figure out some sort of variable refresh rate where they really can get the most out of battery for a 120 hertz phone, they probably wouldn't want to put a 120 hertz display on a regular sized iPhone. I mean, I don't see Apple going for a high refresh rate unless they have perfected it,

which I would include a variable refresh rate to make it more efficient. Like that's just something apple wouldn't do what they did with the apple watch with was i think like probably a really good step towards that which i'm not gonna remember the name let me google the name real quick i know what you're talking about it's where it goes to basically like one frame a second just to keep up with the second hand pretty much right exactly so the the variable refresh rate it's called an ltpo display and i don't remember exactly what that stands for but the technology allows it to throttle way all the way down to one hertz refresh rate when you're not looking at it you raise it up and it goes to

60 hertz and you see it's spinning um they probably would want a technology of that capability something like that in the regular size iphone in order to justify not crushing the battery by going 120 hertz all the time ipad pro has a variable refresh rate but it's also a huge battery it doesn't need to sip as much so yeah yeah yeah interesting i hope it comes with 120 hertz and i could totally see not having the 12, but just the Pro models having it, and that makes perfect sense. I would be super surprised if one Pro had higher refresh and one didn't. Yeah.

That would be unusual, I think. So, fingers crossed for both have higher refresh rate and both have 5G. All of them have 5G. If the two Pro models have higher refresh rate and the 12 doesn't, do you think there's going to be a larger price gap between them because before it was mostly like the biggest difference you're getting between them is the extra camera right right uh so it was a there's also the display so okay you go from lcd to amoled okay so i guess you could possibly just be lumping in higher refresh rate as like the improved display premium display okay i think you'll still have the same price stratification i just love how big the big iphone

is that's a big funny because i love how small the small one yeah so there you go they're they're really stratifying a little more put put the tiny iphone on the huge iphone that's the that's very great that's a great disparity to me this is literally the three bears from goldilocks yeah it's pretty serious so anyway there's a lot to look forward to and again we'll continue seeing all these rumors and things evolve for the iphone 12 but if you want to check out the models we did a video on those we talked about the animations check that out oh wait one more thing yeah there's some lines in the ios 14 code that talked about the new iphone possibly having 4k 240 frames per

second that's right that's right I don't know I don't know I don't know about that one well you don't believe it 4k at 240 what is I guess um I guess super slow-mo is what like 960 that's when they usually dump it down to like so yeah if you're talking like just iPhones of the past, they've typically done 1080p to 4K. What's the highest they've done at 4K? 1080p. 4K60 is the highest they've done. But it's been 4K60 for years, though.

Yeah. Now, if you look at something like the RX100, they're doing 960 FPS at a really low resolution for a short amount of time. I'm curious. Well, phones are doing that also, right? Like the Note 10, I think, had 960 at like 720 or something like that.

Exactly. So I wouldn't be shocked to see Apple pull off a slow-mo mode that's some sort of sampled 4K at 240 FPS. It might not be the whole sensor. It might not be as long of a duration but i could see them doing 4k 240 uh i just i think that's purely apple just flexing like they they really control the entire image processing pipeline in that phone from the silicon to the sensor right to the to the software so they can probably pull that off, I think.

That's nutty. If you are looking forward to that, if it comes out, you best buy that high storage option. Yeah, get that terabyte model, whatever. That's like a $2,000 phone we're talking about right now. But that's exciting to me. I think they're gonna do it. But look, there's other phones we're expecting to come out later this year too.

Matter of fact, what did we just see? We just saw Samsung Unpacked invites went out. And we're expecting three phones. And I'm just going to throw a random fourth thing in there, but we'll get to it. At Unpacked. So look, we all know Galaxy Note 20 is coming. The leaks have started to come out as well. We've seen some visuals.

There's this cool new bronze color. I don't know if you saw that. They're're calling it copper right i don't actually know what the name of the color is but it looks like two color copper and gold which is like very close but i would assume bronze and copper would be close something like that yeah i think it's a really good looking phone um we're assuming it's going to be called Note20. The other question is, will there be a Note20 Ultra alongside Galaxy S20 Ultra? Yes. I'm not sure.

So there was a... Someone found something that had to do with them like copywriting the name of Note20 Ultra, but then some people are wondering if that's just the previous Plus model and they're getting rid of Plus and going to Ultra, or is there potentially going to be Note 20, Note 20 Plus, Note 20 Ultra, similar to the S series?

So that's a like... That's an expensive phone. That is an expensive... Imagine a one terabyte gold Galaxy Note 20 Ultra. Wow. That's just a tablet. Wow. That's, I mean, we'll see.

I'm not sure the rumors have really formulated enough, but it's... All the rumors for this are very, very like... They're a little looser. Yeah, they're way... All the rumors we're going to talk about for the rest of this show are much looser, I think. Well, that's perfect because we're also expecting Z Flip 5G, which, you know, we have Z Flip already. I think Austin Evans is still Z Flip gang. He's still rocking Flip already. I think Austin Evans is still Z Flip gang.

He's still rocking that phone. I think Quinn is also still Z Flip. I saw the video of Quinn, like, tossing it, saying, like, this is too fragile, and just threw it off his, so. It's a tank, man. That's pretty awesome. And then we're also looking forward to Galaxy Fold 2. And that, I have not seen as many, like, leaks or anything about, and I think that's probably

going to be. I've seen nothing about that. I think that's just going to be, like, on on stage unveil status i don't think they have any that's that's roadster release yeah i think it's that i don't think because the rumors we're looking at right now are like almost and again super futuristic looking like bezel-less display on the front hole punch display on the inside like the entire thing looks bezel-less it's really tough to say like how far along they are it's crazy how the thing holding i think that fold back in terms of like really looking like this totally futuristic phone was that front yeah definitely but if they

went bezel-less on the front that phone would just look like something that we shouldn't be seeing that would be my next phone i was my biggest reservation about that phone would just look like something that we shouldn't be seeing. That would be my next phone. I was my biggest reservation about that phone, even though like, okay, it doesn't look as futuristic was it was right as I was getting into high refresh rate phones. So everything new coming out right around galaxy S and one plus was like 90 Hertz,

120 Hertz. And I was like, Ooh, this new thing, it's really effective at feeling faster. And I would go back to a 60 hertz phone and it would feel slower. So I guess what I'm trying to say is

I would love a high refresh rate on both screens and that would probably smoke through battery. But when's the last time Samsung cared about that? Yeah, it'd be like four grand. Yeah, I would love to see a Galaxy Fold 2 with a better design and high refresh rate. And that to me would be an awesome phone but again these are i think a little less likely to be concrete by the time we see them so the show is what is august 7th i believe is the date was it that early yeah so we're

seeing in about a month uh and the last thing i wanted to bring up about samsung unpacked was it's been do you tweet today yeah it's been 699 so by the time this episode's out 701 days since we saw galaxy oh it's not even called galaxy since we saw yeah galaxy home right galaxy home galaxy home i just want to call it bixby speaker uh alongside it was on stage alongside the Galaxy Note 9. That's how long it's been since we saw that thing. And made a brief appearance at CES the following year. Made a splash at a CES exhibit, and then that's kind of been it. Buried in a landfill somewhere apparently.

Yeah, there's like a rumor of a mini version coming out, and then that sort of went hush-ush and uh that's that's about it i mean the ones we saw i'm gonna be completely honest looked bad pretty they looked like you basically had to live in some like three million dollars super modern home that's just like all black marble to make that like look like it fit in your house it just kind of looked like a tiny barbecue grill pretty much yeah or like bart simpson's head almost do they uh do they just hope we forget about it and never show it again do they have to announce they cancel it like air apple actually i believe had an official statement about uh air power which you know everyone likes to bring up air power as being their canceled thing. What was their official statement?

It wasn't like, it was just a post or something, right? Or like an official statement to a journalist? Because I can't imagine them going up on, could you imagine a company going up on stage and being like, and next thing up, Galaxy Home is officially canceled and that'll never happen. This was an emailed statement from an Apple senior VP of hardware engineering about how

they've tried really hard and it's too difficult to meet the high standards they hold themselves to. So it's not like they go on stage and go, all right, everybody, air power. Here's an update. It's not happening. The thing though, Samsung can't do that because if they say it doesn't meet our high standards, they're basically saying we don't bixby isn't good but we're still putting it on all our phones the only other standards it needs to have is a way to it just has to talk it just has to be a speaker and not look terrible it's just

so like they can't announce that unless they ditch bixby from their phones pretty much yeah i don't i don't i don't see it ever actually happening but that's the thing is it's so simple it's just a speaker with a mic i mean it's so simple in the the sense of we are assuming bixby is up to their standards because they're selling bixby on things so the rest of it should not be that hard and their samsung they do very very advanced things they should be able to pull they have some of the best earbuds i've ever used they have the galaxy buds they have a great best of a lot of everyday technology i don't know what's happening there but look i'm looking forward to

galaxy fold 2 and of course galaxy note 20 is probably coming out right alongside that um we also have i mean the rog phone 3 we can. I mean, that's going to be probably a spec bump to the already spec king from last year. Qualcomm just announced the Snapdragon 865+, which goes to 3.1 gigahertz. So we'll probably see that bad in that. It's a phone that already last year, it won three awards in the smartphone contest, and one of them was most improved. So if they just continue that trend upwards like oh that was the three could be yeah so it won best big phone right because it was a great use of space big battery

big speakers all that stuff and then what did it win oh battery champ anything yeah battery champ so best big phone battery champ most improved this year rog phone 3 big candidate for a lot of those things so that's cool we're also looking forward to OnePlus Nord. And at this point, OnePlus Nord is just a huge teaser campaign. This is so OnePlus. This is them going, all right, what are we going to confirm and how are we going to drag it out as long as possible? I think I literally saw like an entire post

about how the camera is going to have OIS. Like just that one spec. Like we're going to have a flagship camera. camera is going to have OIS. Like just that one spec, like we're going to have a flagship camera. It's going to have OIS. And it, this whole winding rambling thing about how great stabilization is in cameras where it's like, all you really get out of that is yeah,

it'll have OIS in the camera. So they're, they're teasing it. It's, it's OnePlus's budget phone. That's coming up a lot of interesting things behind the scenes happening with that, that we'll probably be able to share by the next episode next episode probably asus and one plus should be out by then yeah yeah so that's that's something to look forward to

but you wanted to talk about pixel yeah and actually i'm curious what what we could even talk about with pixel there's not much but i think that's the interesting point about talking about pixel okay so first let's talk about Pixel 4a the good news of that. We don't have much more But they stopped production of the 3a Which we can only assume means the 4a should be coming pretty soon if they're not expecting to be selling more 3a It also could probably mean they made too many and they just didn't sell any and they can just done They're just done. Okay being very optimistic that potentially for a should be coming fairly soon pixel 5 is the big question and i think what i find most interesting is last year i'm fairly certain we literally had a review in

another language of the pixel 4 by this time last year like that's actually we had seen literally every single thing the pixel 4 could have had at this point and we have heard almost nothing about the pixel 5 there were a couple like really quick render speculations early one had this like really weird u-shaped camera bump on the back and another one just looked like a pixel 4 with a physical fingerprint reader on the back but a lot of very well known and very accurate leakers have said there's almost no merit to either of those uh leaks right um so i have two statements from two different people who are very well known in the android community and i think both of them say a

lot so steven hall from nine to five google is saying because of covet 19 is helping google keep hardware secrets because things aren't following normal patterns. So he's basically saying things are chaotic over there and supply chain's a little, a little, a little crazy and it's helping. Cause like you, there's two ways to think of this is pixel five delayed. Cause they're having problems because of COVID or did they all of a sudden hire a new team and now they have it on lock like which I highly doubt because of how much we saw of everything last year so pixel 4a is already delayed a lot yes and that's you know basically because of COVID I mean they haven't made any announcements but we can sort of infer that yeah we all assumed we were going to see it at IO so there's a lot of a lot of things in the next like six

months that could potentially be delayed there was even a rumor that the iphone might not come out in september this year they've been like lockstep with september stuff and it looks like they've gotten that back on track but i think anything is candidate to be delayed but the fact that we haven't seen anything like at all is kind of curious but i don't think they just don't do a pixel so that's it they have to do a pixel right david rudok i believe from android police yeah sorry if i'm pronouncing that wrong um tweeted uh total absence of fresh leaks around pixel 5 is not about google doing a better job at locking down leaks it's because google has not decided what it's doing yet i imagine the hardware team is in total chaos right now.

So I think that adds more to like COVID and potentially being delayed because of all of that. But we're in July. If a team doesn't have a design like lockdown, they're usually releasing in what, October? Yeah, October. That's- Five months from now?

No, not, I guess July, August. Yeah. Okay, yeah. yeah october that's five months from now that no not i guess july august yes okay yeah that's still really really soon to not have anything locked down i mean i'm sure they have some concepts but if they're in so sounds like basically the the amount of leaks we had last year was because the supply chain was so loosey-goosey and they'd finished they'd finished the phone months in advance like they usually do and they just don't have that level of control over their supply chain so by this time last year they literally had it in packaging right right so this year there is so much uh so much indecision and so much difficulty with the the state of the world that they probably

haven't fully decided what they're going to do with this phone, that it probably is undoubtedly delayed at least as much as pixel four a, which means it won't make the holiday season. Yeah. Yeah. That's closing in the 2021 already. So, and I guess if you're in the position of Googling, you're like, well, if it won't make the holiday season, should we even try to make it this year? Should we just make it next year? Yeah yeah do we settle with a potentially like last minute could be lackluster design or do we just look to skip this one release 4a and and go because the pixel 4 didn't kill it it did not do that well it didn't sell well here's the thing about i mean this can go all the way back to like why do we make a new phone every year anyway like what if the tech isn't really that much better uh people buying a pixel

4 are probably fine for another year i think you want to have a new product available every year for people who are looking to upgrade but if you can't make something good you you don't have to make something you could probably wait till march of next year and then get back on the on the horse but i don't know if they have to as much as i'd love like i love the pixel i'd love for them to make another incredible camera and another great phone but i guess they don't have to make one in september or october it would be very interesting to see them skip a year but with how poorly pixel 4 went over last year it might just be the right move and to really nail it next time i think the rumor is actually the only ones you've really heard were they were potentially going down

a step in processor and not right selling a full-blown but then the thing i liked was they were just ditching solely it sounded like oh i can't wait for that something i hate on my phone it's turned off and it sucks that people are paying for that. Yeah. The, I guess Google, when I think about it is maybe one of the only companies that can pull it off where if you're a, if you're a hardware maker, if you're LG HTC, one of these, or even one plus, and you find yourself like in a position where you can't really put together something in time for what you want it to make. Google is maybe one of the only companies that can just not put out a phone and no one's really that mad. They're still making Android.

They're still on every phone. They're still doing the really important stuff. If they have more things they need to say or more leading they need to do for the Android program, then they can make a new Pixel. But maybe not on time. Speaking of that there's also some rumors that google and samsung are working together on their own smartphone chips

so maybe that's also cutting into i'm assuming it would be different teams but it's just more stuff that could be adding to chaos over there that's not getting this out on time i'm wow sure there are some people at google listening to this right now and just being like, you have everything wrong. But this is what you get when you don't leak stuff all year and we can't talk about it. So we're gonna turn this into a little more fun. Get back to leaking.

Get back to it. Start putting it in our hands. No, that's, yeah, there's a lot of question marks around the Pixel line, even now with Pixel 4a. So we'll keep an eye on all of that. Yeah. We probably won't even have anything more about next episode, but Hey, let's keep watching it. All right. Well, that's a lot of stuff. That's a lot of stuff. We we've talked, we're over an hour already, so let's take a, another quick break and then we'll, we'll do some Q and a, cause we had some, some pretty interesting questions and then we'll wrap it up

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Donate at camh.ca slash donate now from December 23rd to the 31st, and your gift will be tripled for three times the impact. Okay, welcome back. So we talked about a lot of stuff, but as usual, we put out a little Q&A question on the waveform Twitter and got some interesting questions from you guys, and so we can go over them. Some of them are related to stuff we've already talked about a lot of stuff, but as usual, we put out a little Q&A question on the waveform Twitter and got some interesting questions from you guys. And so we can go over them. Some of them are related to stuff we've already talked about.

But I wanted to start off right off the top with this one asking, with Dark Sky leaving Android soon, there's a month left, by the way, but it's leaving Android. Have you found a replacement weather app yet? And no, Carrot Weather does not count. The UI is horrendous. And I agree. I tried Carrot Weather. i still don't think it's very good uh but i did find one it's called overdrop and it's pretty close i mean it uses it's powered by dark sky so i don't know if i can if it'll still pull data from there but it is a good looking app it does give me like hour by hour it's smooth it supports 120 hertz the radar is not as good uh but that's the only thing that's lacking so i'll say i'll

plug a overdrop if you guys haven't checked that out give that a look nice i'm still i still just type it into google and i don't have a dedicated weather app i know i don't know why i'm super into the the hyper local weather stuff someone says what did you guys learn about podcasting and what's your best tips for a new tech podcast but let's just say any podcast um i'd say just just start get something that you can start this is kind of interesting we just got our every month we get numbers based on our episodes. And our last episode was our second most listened to episode ever. Oh, with Craig, yeah.

Yeah, the first one, the number one episode being the first episode because we launched it. If you go back and listen to that episode, it sounds so bad compared to this. Well, this is what happens when you look at your old work is you see all the things you did wrong. But it's not even a year ago at this point. Like we've improved so much and audio is like you've worked with audio but audio is like a pretty new game for all of us and we've learned a lot through this and we had a huge problem with volume and levels and and noise and it sounds i'm like embarrassed to listen to it going back um and and we hope to continue that rate of improvement.

Yeah, exactly. This room still has a lot of soundproofing to do. We're waiting on all that to come in. But just get going because, like I said, our worst sounding episode is our most listened to episode here. That's facts. So it's crazy. So just get going with it.

There is so many resources online, Reddit, YouTube. There are plenty of people out there you can find to help you with all your audio stuff i've learned so much through just watching random things or talking to people who are knowledgeable about it and i'd like to think the podcast quality has gotten much much better since that first episode yeah and i think just uh just uh having a theme or a story, I'll just chime this in where you can have a conversational podcast and that's fun, but when you have like a theme

or a consistent topic or reason to go back, that's what takes it to the next level. So just a little tidbit for me. Oh, wait, I like this one. All right, what's your opinion on the current smartphone nomenclature that's how you pronounce that right yeah um i think marketing teams are going bonkers and the names of phones are getting way too long and i think i can agree with this and not just when it comes to phones i think computer monitors are the worst. Well, okay, yeah. TVs, computer monitors.

TVs and, for some reason, displays are so bad. No, I think smartphone names actually go in and out of waves of being good and then bad. I think sometimes different companies just get lost in the sauce and just have horrible names for a while and then shake their head like the easy, the etch-ch a sketch and like realize it's weird and start over like sony's phone that i'm still trying to get my hands on is called the xperia 1 2 i tell people what phone i use and i say it's the one plus eight and they go the what yeah the what now the iphone, that's really easy. The iPhone 11 Pro, that makes sense. The iPhone 11 Pro Max, starting to get a little much.

I mean, you kind of have to say it's the bigger one, but I think some companies just, yeah, I agree. Sometimes they get a little weird. Yeah, some of them are weird. It's hard to blame the OnePlus because that's their name. So it's not like, theplus 8 is actually super simple it's about as good as you can name a phone when your company name is oneplus yeah but then and what's interesting is i would say samsung's names are way too long but by the time you usually say

samsung note 20 or you would say galaxy note 20. It's just turned into that thing where you usually skip one because the Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra is just... You know what's funny? It's funny because we say the brand name of every other phone except Apple. Did you notice that? Almost everyone, except maybe Asus, we say ROG phone, but everyone else will say the Samsung Galaxy S10,

the LG V50. G8, thank you. Yeah like everyone else will say the samsung galaxy s10 the lg v50 thank you the yeah and we always say the company name but with apple it's the iphone yeah and then the rest of the name especially samsung they struggle with that because no one wants to say the samsung galaxy s20 ultra 5g like there's too much yeah you need to cut it so no one ever says the whole name they go this is the samsung 20 or the Galaxy 20 or S20. No one wants to say the whole name. So I do think they're too long when you have to also say the brand name. I think Google does a good job because even if you say the full Google Pixel 4, that's

simple, straight to the point. You have a very distinct name and then you have the number after it yeah it's like name your phones like rocky names its movies keep it simple one two yeah keep it real simple i like that there's an interesting question here from connor what is one thing you do not want on a smartphone and why and someone actually answered it for me and it's pretty good i said for marquez it's probably one of those two megapixel macro cameras and that's actually that's probably my answer aside from the macro camera there's definitely some things that are like i don't want them in their current state like i don't want solely and i don't want lgs like video or uh motion unlocking

or gestures yeah but like ultimately if those worked really well they would be awesome there so it's not that i don't want that in a phone i just don't want to be paying extra money for a phone when they don't work very well right there are some features that come out where i immediately my gimmick sensor goes off where i'm like i don't want to pay for that most of the time if gimmicks worked well they would be awesome but we know they're not gonna work well yeah sometimes they do work well they're just like you open it you demo it it works really well and then you never use it again and it's like well i guess it was cool for a week but uh it's not like i don't want it if it works but sometimes i think the things i

just don't want are the things that take up space at the detriment of other things and don't work well. That's what I don't want. Yeah. So, I mean, if you took the two megapixel away from the macro camera, would you still want it? If it was a good macro camera? A good macro camera? Sure. So it's hard to say, like, here's something I specifically don't want because we just don't want the really poor versions of them.

Curved displays. Okay, how about that? Camera bumps. Camera bumps, I'm actually not that against if they don't like. But like it adds nothing positive to the phone, right? Yeah, I mean, I guess if you could choose no camera bump or camera bump,

I would choose no camera bump. But it's not something that you think affects you. It's not like I'm looking at my phone like, I wish I didn't have this. But I say to it to add to the macro cameras i i don't want the bleeding over the side screen thing i think that's it looks cool at first but it ends up kind of being annoying after a while to use and as i've mentioned that in videos so i'll add that too why do a lot of different space youtubers tech food bloggers, travel bloggers, get the same set of sponsors such as VPN companies, Raycon, HelloFresh, etc.?

I can answer that. Yeah. It's because those are the companies who are reaching out to all these YouTubers. Yeah, those are companies who know good marketing and know social media is very good marketing right now. Yeah, to sort of break it down, and, and I think, you know, there might be a video about this already, or maybe I'll just talk about it more, but there's not a lot of companies that do integrations with YouTube well. And most companies, most older, most traditional, most massive companies are very entrenched in more traditional advertising. They're advertising

on TV. If they're lucky, they're doing advertising with Google AdWords and on the internet. And so influencer marketing is very new as much as I hate the word. That's kind of just what it is where you work with someone on Instagram or YouTube or Twitch or TikTok or whatever it is. And there is a small number of companies that turn out to be really great to work with and word travels quick about those companies within the creator community yeah look have you worked with this company what did you think were they good oh they were amazing they only wanted one round of edits they paid within a week or two they had let me do full creative control like that kind of stuff is rare so when you only see like six or seven different companies advertising on all your favorite youtube channels, it's probably because they're doing it well. Now you might not love the

product and you might think it's intrusive and all of that is totally understandable, but that's just the way it is right now. It's like if you watch TV in the first 10 years of TV, when advertising was first starting, I'm sure it was not immediately accepted as this thing you should blow millions of dollars on. you're not going to see a ton of ads so i think it's just that it's just we're just early in the game the thing is also if you think short 60 second ad breaks like that are intrusive you don't see all the things we don't agree because they are trying to be very very very intrusive so the things we're allowing are generally the least intrusive easiest people to work with things we still believe in but like mostly are it's not going to really affect the video and it's something that's not going to destroy our time over here

with eight rounds of editing yeah that's that's the thing is there's a for every ad you do see i bet the ratio is different from different channels but for every ad you do see, I bet the ratio is different from different channels, but for every ad you do see, there's 80 to 150 ads you don't see that were skipped over. And to be perfectly honest, I've skipped over some ads because they're just everywhere. I don't do any of those like mobile game,

you know, like those. I literally don't play any of them, obviously, first of all, but they're also everywhere. And it's just kind of like, I kind of zone literally don't play any of them, obviously, first of all, but they're also everywhere. And it's just kind of like, I kind of zone out when I see one of those. So I just, I don't, I don't think I'm ever going to do those. But to answer the question, there's not very many advertisers, uh, willingly, properly working with YouTubers.

They're still learning the space. Exactly. We're all still figuring it out together. All right. I got one more. I think this is a the space. Exactly. We're all still figuring it out together. All right, I got one more. I think this is a good one. Okay. Predictions for the quality of tech unveiling keynotes after seeing how well produced WWDC was.

And I kind of want to, I'm just going to twist it a little bit. Okay. And I'll ask you, do you think we have to go back to cringy onstage presentations after realizing how effective online presentations can be in terms of the presentation i don't think we have to go back but i think we're going to go

back because it usually offers that hands-on right so the hands-on yeah that's why we have to wwdc was a great well-produced thing and there was no hardware so they didn't have to do a hands-on true now that being said if if we get to september or we're getting to these you know unpacked wait is unpacked in person i didn't even check there's no way if we get to these future events where there's going to be hardware and there's no hands-on these companies have to decide how to do that i think i think they can do uh sending out devices to reviewers under embargo where we get to use them and create our videos like usual but we don't have to attend a physical in-person event the event gets live streamed everyone watches it then afterwards the embargo drops and all the videos come out i think that's beautiful i mean i think that sounds amazing yeah it sounds great especially because

when they pre-produce i forgot about this at wwdc because usually it happens on stage and then i want to go back to the hotel or whatever and do my overview video of what just happened and the hardest thing immediately about that is like all right where do we how do we download this footage of the keynote where did it just happen can we go to Apple site? Can we go to get a quick time file, YouTube, where are we going to find this? Uh, and after WWDC this year, it was all pre-produced. So as soon as the keynote ended, I had all of the files in HD from Apple straight away. Here you go. Feel free to use it. I was like, whoa, this is game changing. So in my mind, I was like, we don't have to go back. We don't have to go back to those live presentations because this was equally effective, if not more so, because I

immediately had the resources to make a better video. And it's definitely more beneficial for everyone watching who's not invited to those events because then you just get a way better. I mean, and to be honest, even seeing those those events live the only reason they're nice live is because immediately you're going to have hands-on time with something yeah and you know i i get the aura of like the hype of it like the audience applause we didn't have that right yeah it was a little more polished and they had a more of a production but you also missed out on the oohs and ahs and the the reveals to people who are going to immediately react there's no comment section it's just like a sort of a stale live stream so i get that you know when

you're trying to do something exciting you kind of have to mix it up a bit and having a live show one plus is doing an ar i mentioned this on the live podcast because i couldn't talk about it but now we can they're doing an AR event around OnePlus Nord. So I guess you'll be able to stream it in augmented reality with like your phone, maybe on YouTube or something. The details would be somewhere. We'll try to put it in the show notes, but they're doing an AR launch event. And my immediate thought was this is either going to be amazing or really cringy and difficult. Yeah.'m not sure yet that's gonna be tough uh but i like that they're getting creative and i think we should get creative with these these launch events

because maybe this is the way we just keep doing them from now on yeah if i were a speaker i would much prefer a pre-recorded where i could not make mistakes and everything then go up live on a stage that is not my thing yeah um but luckily i'm not the one who has to do that so either way and even even even for these companies who are typically putting like their ceo on stage who let's be real often doesn't have the best on stage presentation skills the fact that you can now give them a script let them edit it after the fact and really make it much more presentable uh and engaging it's gonna make their ceos look. It's gonna make their CEOs look better. It's gonna make the videos easier to watch.

I think it's a win-win. You don't have to fly people in. We don't have to spend money to fly in. It's a win. So I don't know. I'm all for it. I think we keep it this way. It'll all be about the hands-on part.

And in our ideal scenario, we'd much rather have the products here so we can film in a good scenario. The hands-on area experience is a very special thing. It stinks. It's awful. I'm trying to think if there's another equivalent in some other industry where the curtains pull back and you run at something with a camera.

What other industry has that? I don't know. I'm sure like fashion industry or something like that. There's a stage. Yeah. It's just such an incredibly specific thing that I won't miss, but it's so specific to these tech events that you feel like we got to keep it around because it's such a tech event thing.

The only thing I like about events is seeing other creators that we don't get to see. That's true. Because we're away from everything. That part's true. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we'll just join a join

together at ces in like three years when they finally hold it again have they canceled ces yet they haven't canceled it i don't think they've canceled it but it's canceled well i won't i'm just gonna say now i don't think i'm gonna go to ces but i will miss seeing all our friends at these events for sure but again good question my prediction is we will probably go back to normal but my my thought is let's make like a hybrid of the two anyway well we've talked for about 75 years i think we'll wrap it up thanks for listening to this episode of waveform uh we'll be back in the next episode with probably a lot more tech stuff and we'll have some guests on as well but keep tweeting at us at waveform on twitter we got plenty of stuff plenty of feedback from you and

we'll look forward to chatting with you in the next one peace waveform was created with studio 71 and our intro outro music was made by cameron barlow