Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Apple Splitting up iPhone 18 Releases?

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David start things off by talking about how Apple might be switching up iPhone releases! They also talk about the new changes coming to Google devices with the Material 3 Expressive leak and also some Android desktop-mode improvements that were found. After that, David gives us a breakdown on the Epic vs Apple court case. They close it out debating whether they're more excited for Google I/O in May or Apple WWDC later in the summer. Links: The Information - ⁠Apple iPhone releases 9to5Google - Material 3 Expressive leak Android Authority - Google building its own DeX Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spring is here and you can now get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? You can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. Sunshine? No. Some wine? Yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. See app for details. Finding your personal style isn't easy, and the fashion powers that be aren't making it any easier on us.

The best way to make sure they move a lot of units is to make stuff that is, to put it in delicately, sort of boring. This week on Explain It To Me, how to cut through the noise and make sense of your own fashion sense. New episodes every Sunday morning, wherever you get your podcasts. My friends and I thought that the color mahogany was funny. So why? It is fun.

Why? It's just objectively hilarious. We used to just walk around. We used to just walk around and go mahogany. Yeah, what's up people of the internet. Welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew.

And I'm David. This week, we do have a lot of stuff. We've got a doozy. We've got, let's see, Android features, a bunch of new stuff got leaked. Apple might stagger the iPhone release, which is kind of interesting based on the other rumors that we'll talk about. Arguably the biggest update to the Apple third party app store fiasco and lawsuit. But first, we, the producers of said podcast, have to remove a point from Marquez because

as the people of the internet have correctly pointed out, the iPhone 6 that we gave a point from Marques because as the people of the internet have correctly pointed out, the iPhone 6 that we gave a point to Marques to last week in trivia actually came out in 2015, not 2014. So we're taking the point away. Blah, blah, blah. Sorry Marques. I don't like how cheerful this is. I like the music.

How happy you guys are to take this point away from me. You say you like the music, but this is the same music that would have played during that Spotify thing we were talking about. Was it? No. It's very similar. But I'm using that forever now. That felt very Diddy Kong racing.

Yeah. You know other game shows, if they mess up, you just keep the money. I don't know. When the bank messes up, they come after you. Other game shows don't have hundreds of comments begging to take the point away. So they keep us honest and that's why you should subscribe so you can make sure we don't get any extra points. Yeah. Yeah.

If you'd like to see me continue to be devastated by trivia, make sure you hit that red button. Cash with $90,000 check and it wasn't real, the bank will destroy you. That's fair enough. Sounds like a personal problem. All right, let's get into it. First thing is Apple might,

I don't know where this came from. It's sort of an out of the blue rumor, but Apple might only release the pro iPhones in 2026. Yes. And then stagger the regular iPhones to be released months later. Yeah. I don't know.

The information. I don't understand this one. I don't understand why they would do that because typically the standard iPhones use the same chip as the previous year's iPhones. So they would be even older and more out of date. Do you find any merit in this? I think maybe they would get rid of that fact

and they would start using the good chips again, but just not the pro version and the regular version instead. Because the pro phone, the big pro phone, the most expensive one in the United States is always the one that sells the most. In the US. In the United States.

It is. So it kind of makes sense. I mean, they're planning on releasing two new iPhone models in the next two years. So at this point, we're gonna have the air and we're also gonna have a fold. Can I get, can we make an example of how this would play out in gonna have the Air, and we're also gonna have a Fold. Can I get like, can we make an example of how this would play out in 2026?

So like- So last year we had in 2024, the iPhone was the 16, 16 plus, 16 Pro, 16 Pro Max. Then we got the 16E at the beginning of 2025. So now the end of 2025 would still be- This is normal, besides the Air that comes out this year. So this is starting next year. So 17, 17 Pro, 17 Plus, 17 Air.

Air, yeah, great. So then in 2026, we would get the iPhone 18 Pro and 18 Pro Max, and those are the premium iPhones. And then six months later, we would get the iPhone 18 Air, 18 and 18+. No. No? No.

So the report says that in fall of 2026, we get the Pro, the foldable, which is the hot dog style. Okay. Right? And then you also get the Air. And then it's six months later that you're gonna get the regular models and the E. So the regular gets pushed to E launch,

which is usually like Q2-ish, the following year. So kind of like the A series in Pixel. Right, so I'm not totally sure how they're doing this chip-wise, whether or not they're just gonna give all the iPhones the good chip again, except not the Pro version, so like one less GPU core. But it does kind of make sense to release all the Pro versions at the same time because those

Are the most hot selling ones anyway? And if you have three kind of pro ish iPhones like you depends on if you consider the air a pro fan The air is at least the one that a lot of people want to buy. Yeah, it's premium. So allegedly allegedly allegedly So I think this makes a lot of sense So allegedly allegedly allegedly so I think this makes a lot of sense But it is interesting to think of the regular iPhone getting kind of Delegated towards the more budget side of the world, you know, yeah. Yeah fascinating I mean, I I never had a problem with all the iPhones coming out at the same time but I also would find it interesting to have

Different release cycles and we usually do There's also a little more information about the foldable from the information article. They say it would potentially have a 5.7 inch screen while closed and a just under eight inch screen while open. And Ming-Chi Kuo has previously suggested it would be around four and a half to 4.8 millimeters thick open.

And use face ID instead of touch ID. As a tech review channel, music to my ears. Yeah. As a content creator, that's just more. We don't have three weeks to do four. iPhone videos are four iPhones. You still, because if the air comes out, then there still is. There's still three levels. Actually, there's more. I know, but we'll get six months.

No, no, no, no, no. The Fold, the Pro, and the Air come out at the same time, which actually means, because normally we just get Pro models and regular models. We get three then. And that's basically three reviews. Yeah, yeah, that's three reviews. And then six months later, we get,

instead of just the E, we have the regular and the E. It's actually two separate times that's almost twice as much work. I take it back. Apple, what have you done? Okay, but considering our waveform iphone episodes usually do pretty well I'll take an extra It's more new hardware to talk about which is interesting. Can I tell you guys something about that? We had our monthly meeting the other day and I put all the stats into ai and said hey give me uh

Some recommendations as to what we should do. They tell you to eat rocks? It literally told me to just talk about iPhones. It was like, it seems like the iPhone episodes do great. You guys should focus more on iPhones. This is a fact. If you are a tech channel on YouTube and looking to start out, the lowest common denominator,

like the easiest way to get the most views the fastest is to just talk about Apple all the time. Because people, especially in English speaking countries, talk about Apple a lot, care about Apple a lot, click on Apple a lot. It's the same as I wanna do a car video. What company am I gonna talk about? Yeah, obviously Tesla.

I wanna make that clear though that the reason it gets views is because people are interested in it. I also think an interesting point to that is I think people who dislike Apple will hate watch things where Apple fans don't really give a damn about other stuff and don't hate watch other things. Yeah, I think that's a real dynamic.

You're saying if you hate, you're saying there's more people who hate Apple and actively watch Apple videos to hate rather than the other way around. We were just talking about this with something else the other day. I think it was with Tesla. Yeah, it was with Tesla.

We actually, yeah, the similar analytics note where if you are a car channel and you are looking at your analytics and you've noticed, wow, everything that I do with Tesla in the title seems to do like way more numbers, you'll notice that people don't look at EVs as Tesla alternatives and watch those more. Instead, they hate watch the Tesla video and then leave.

Are we sure that that's not just like the vocal minority though? There's actually a majority of people who are interested in the car that watch it. I think that's also, I think it's a both. Same with Apple, right? Yeah, I think part of it is like, and why I wanted to say that was,

it's so easy to say X person just does this for views, but like those views means it's people interested in that video, which means there are just people interested. Like, you can still be interested, like views has such as negative connotation in YouTube, which doesn't always translate as only doing it for like money or whatever. But I also think there are,

because it's also easier to do that in both of these senses, Tesla and Apple, it's easier to point at one thing where if you're on the other side, the Tesla side or the Apple side, you're not gonna go to every Google, Samsung, Huawei, OnePlus, like all of them, or you're on Tesla and not gonna be going

to every Chevy, Toyota video and be mean. Yeah, it's also a reason why I think people like me use the most well-followed companies products as like reference points for other things. So sometimes people talk about like, wow, you always seem to talk about Apple, or you always seem to reference an Apple product, when a lot of times that's just the thing that most people watching are already familiar

with and it's giving context for other things. So if I can tell you that a phone looks a certain, maybe a photo from the camera looks a certain way compared to the iPhone, when you've already seen a lot of iPhone photos, it helps you understand that. Or if I talk about specs, similar stuff. So it's just that big pillar in the middle of the stuff happening in this world. Anyway, speaking of talking about only Apple,

is that what you're gonna do? That was literally my transition. I'm sorry, I was like waiting to do it for about five minutes. Well, same. I was like, I have to let people talk and then I can do it. Well, speaking of how we only talk about Apple.

Speaking of how we only talk about Apple, we're gonna talk about Google. We'll talk about Apple again later, but. I think that worked better in your heads. No. I think so too. I thought it was funny. We'll talk plenty about Apple later.

Ellis and I both thought it was funny. Google accidentally leaked Material3Expressive, which is definitely a name for a UI. Material3Expressive. If you remember, we had MaterialU last time around, material3 expressive, which is definitely a name for a UI. Material3 expressive. If you remember, we had material you last time around, which was with the Pixel 6. It started with material design.

Exactly. Which was a long time ago. Material design was this way of basically adding sort of layered interaction systems to design elements, as in you're stacking like paper sheets. So if you see the hamburger menu that is in a lot of Google apps where things will layer over each other,

that was Material Design. They updated it over time. Material U was Material Design, but it was weirder in a lot of ways. Matching colors, different ways to make your UI more expressive, which is ironic because now this new version of Material Design is called Material 3 Expressive.

Google did a bunch of tests where they conducted many different research studies, they say 46, and they dialed in a new system that they say is both beautiful and highly usable. It's actually very funny because there's a bunch of info on all of the research that they did and they have all these graphs. And one of the graphs that was, it was like, people that think that things stand apart and are cool, are cool. The graphs are like pretty much like,

hey, here's how this vibes with people. And it's like the number one way to kill a vibe is to put it in percentage points inside of a graph. It's just like, it's a cool, coolness attributes. 98% say it stands apart. 87% say it's defiant. Like this is 98% original. It is really, I would love to reason to remember the name. I would want to like be a fly on the wall and have Tim read through this and see what he thinks, because it's really hard to quantify design. Right. If that makes sense.

Totally. So, yeah, you want it to be energetic. But what does that mean? From what I understand, material through expressive is like an evolution of material you wear material you was weird shapes. This is both weird shapes and weird fonts. But another part of it that I find actually quite interesting is if you look at the design schemas, you have an app like say Gmail.

So like there's this screenshot of Gmail here. And they basically separate the app into multiple different little windows. So everything is kind of like localized into its own space. They round off all the edges, They get rid of sort of that super flat design where you can't tell like where the where it ends and where it begins And I think that it looks pretty cool Whether or not you think it's cool is up to you. I think this looks really good I agree the separation of things makes it easier to find everything

I don't know why the send button needs to be 50% larger than all the other buttons. I just take up space. But besides that, I do think this way of separating things in these floating menus makes the navigation way easier. Yeah, and they also, the fonts are way different. There's different layered stuff. You guys should check out this article

and then look at some of these visuals if you get a chance. They are very colorful, very, there's a lot of frills and shapes and floating things and UI is generally shuffled quite a bit and there's lots of interesting aspect ratios and that, it's just very different. Yeah. My only want is that it's still intuitive.

If you're gonna move things around, at least keep them in places that it makes sense for them to be. I actually don't mind in this Gmail screenshot that the send button is big, because that's the biggest button I'm gonna use. Most often the keyboard is the same size, my attachment buttons are a little bit more easy to find.

Reachability is another concern. Put things near the bottom of our ever increasingly larger phone screens. So it makes sense. It's just, yeah, very, I don't know, what do you mean by, what does this graph say? A 30% jump in rebelliousness. What?

That send button's rebellious, Marcus. What does that mean? I don't know what it means. How do you make a UI rebellious? So yeah, that's the story. There's a button that says, I'm going to sue Google. Imagine in Photoshop there's like a rebelliousness slider and you just slide it up and make it more rebellious. The send button turns into a hammer.

Yeah, what is happening there? I do like the way it looks better though in this Gmail concept because it does, to your point, Marques, about it remaining intuitive. I feel like that is intuitive because the to and from portions of it, you know you're sending an email. That's somewhere else. You don't need to constantly see that as you're typing out the email. So I like that they push that away. You have the send button.

You have the attach button, all of that. What it really feels like is that they're just making everything as random as physically possible, which I will take you know That sounds pretty rebellious Maybe that is what rebellious means 30 percent more but i'm i'm interested how you create a design scheme that is inherently like random Because obviously there's going to be a system in place

But yeah, I don't know something else that I find very funny And one of the graphs that they shared is that they took a bunch of data from different age groups and just as people get older they hate expressive things more and more. It's like ages 18 to 24 percent, 87 percent of that demographic prefers expressive, 25 to 34, 81, 35 to 44, 65, 45 to 54, 62, 55 to 64, 52 52 You just said a lot of I said a lot of numbers You can just basically think of it as as you get older you get more boring and more angry the word Can confirm yeah, my back hurts Is this them just trying to like tailor the experience to get back the youths? I don't think for sure

of the experience to get back the youths? That's something for sure. It's fun to make fun of the vibe graphs at the bottom, but this does look good. I can't wait to see it for real because all these leaks are just light purple and I wanna see a couple of their colors, but overall. 15% of my diet is Cholula. If I made everything Cholula colored,

my life would be a better place. Yeah. I really wonder if they're gonna call it material three expressive. I bet they will. They should just call it material you to material. Basically that isn't it? Because material three is material you know it's like material. They should just call it material us. Dot I. Oh, material us. Material us. I should have dubbed that. Material I. Material us.

Material I am. Us. Us. Us, oh. Like big U, little S. Like the S that they used on the iPhones. Yeah. Yeah, you know what it also reminded me?

How colorful everything is and how expressive and vibey it all is, is further and further from the minimal phones we keep seeing. Like the minimal phone is just white text, black background, boxed. And this phone is like, every button will be a little different. Yeah.

For some reason, all these remind me of like Spotify wrapped. Oh yeah. Like they're just like scrolling through the like little slideshow they give you. It's's like what if your whole phone was Spotify wrapped? Let's go. Okay. That's what the kids want. I see it that has some w Riz. Okay So that's a there's a very good nine-to-five Google article that will link in the show notes about that So you should go check that out. Yeah, one last story. That's definitely about Apple Google's desktop mode is finally coming.

And it's just like Dex. And I was going to let Adam talk about it, but I feel like that's exactly what he wants. Michelle Roman from Android Authority posted this first look at Google's own desktop mode, which adds a task bar at the bottom for pinned in recent apps and also allows you to launch apps that you can resize and snap just like you can do in Windows and Mac OS, which is quite cool. It is probably not going to launch

with this new version of Android, but probably the one down the line, because it's still in very early stages, but you will be able to drag and drop content from one app to another, as long as the app support it, which I find very cool. Yeah, so yeah. I was gonna say, can I be the village idiot here

for a second? Let's go. Haven't we talked about this like eight times already? Oh yeah, baby. And is it still the same thing that's almost here? Well, yes, first of all. Second of all, last time that we spoke about this, it was just them discovering it at all.

Like, oh, this exists, that's crazy. And like my phone right now, I have the Pixel 9 Pro, you could plug it into a screen and get like a very basic kind of desktop thing. This is them now updating that and making it way more usable. In the video, there's a video there on their YouTube channel on the site.

It looks like Chrome OS, which is, I'm sure, how it's supposed to look. I mean, I would prefer if they just use this instead of Chrome OS. Yeah, just drag. Because it's everything that's on your phone already, too. So your messages and all that stuff. But it's like, you can drag Android apps next to each other.

You can have Chrome next to whatever random app you were going to copy and paste into. Whatever. It's functional because it's got the stuff that's already on your phone, but also then it's a Chrome OS computer when you plug it into this shell screen, whatever. It's cool.

How close are we to getting back to Project Linda? The Razer laptop where you stick your phone inside of it and it's just a screen and a keyboard to run off your phone. I think the idea of this is kind of that you can plug it into like any Windows computer and it'll turn into this. Like you can boot it into this. It would be sweet if my laptop was just a place to slide my phone into and then have a workspace.

That's been the dream for at least a decade. Linda, everyone thought it was cool, but it was just a Razer CES product that never would see the light of day. And the problem was that it would only work with the phone that was exactly the shape. But why not just use a laptop? Because it costs, the shell would cost like a couple hundred bucks.

Yeah, the shell would be cheaper and it would, I've done actually a similar progression around my own house, which is I had a computer upstairs and I had a computer in the basement and I slowly started getting rid of computers and I just take my laptop and I had a computer in the basement and I slowly started getting rid of computers and I just take my laptop and I plug it into the monitor instead. And it's obviously you can just have another computer

but if you just wanna keep all of your stuff on one computer and then move it around and it sort of adapts the form factor of the space you're in, that idea is appealing to people. And if you can do it all from a phone, then you only have your phone in your pocket and that can expand to be laptop size desktop size TV size, whatever That's like a yeah, nice. I never forget your files again. Yeah, you always know a computer It's not except you can't do any video editing or you know, I don't know bro

There's some like stuff I guess it's interesting because I feel like Apple's kind of doing the exact opposite thing, right? There with the iPhone mirroring, where it's like, oh, you want to use your phone on your computer, just open it as a little window. Yeah. Which is quite cool. Yeah, it is super cool. If you're able to do this wirelessly,

that would be amazing. No way. There's no way. There is a way. There's no way. I mean, they already do that with the iPhone mirroring. They already have that wirelessly. No, that, yeah, yeah, totally. So, I mean, if do. They already do that with the iPhone mirroring. They already have that wirelessly. No, that. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, if you could just say, I'm mirroring the phone, but also it's changing the UI up a little bit. There's no way.

And I'll see it when I see live transcription over video. Oh, but I think I'm about to be proven big time wrong about that. So let's maybe hold on. I can't let our tongues. I got to pull that clip up. Yeah, also I can't ignore the like slight. Well, we've always talked about this. The fact that Apple makes a device in each of these categories

and wants to sell you multiple things versus Google doesn't make as many of those things. They don't make a desktop computer. They don't. I mean, they make a lot of software, but they don't want to also sell you a laptop. Yeah. Google sells Chrome, right? At least for now. So their big idea was that Chrome is your internet computer. And like, as long as you're logged into your Chrome account, you've got your computer anywhere. That was their whole big idea with Chrome OS and why

they were trying to put like a Chrome OS thing in every room of your house. Now, if they have to sell Chrome, that is messed up a lot. But yeah, that is kind of the opposite of Apple where they're just like, we need to sell you more hardware. Google doesn't have a lot of hardware to sell you. And the hardware that they do sell with Chrome OS is just to get you on Google services.

So it's quite different. What I wanted to say doesn't connect as well, but you mentioned, this is my fault, you mentioned how they're trying to sell you all these different things. Well, later in the episode, we're gonna talk about why iPadOS might be getting a little closer to one of those.

True. Whoa, what a tease. Way later in the episode. Welcome back to another episode. What was so funny? You just got off really early. Or like a little early. It's so hot in here.

All right. Material this, material that, whatever. Today's question is, aero, metro, and Fluent are three iterations of which tech companies design language? Yes. I remember this. What is it?

Aero, Metro, and Fluent. You know. I know. You know. Andrew knows. You remember. We got it. Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Andrew doesn't remember. Those who know. I'm already thinking about the points I'm gonna get at the end of the episode. And I'm already thinking about the points we're gonna take away from you in the next episode. The answers of course will be at the end like usual. We'll be thinking about it.

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It's good transcript, yes. You guys might remember that in 2021, Epic, the company that makes Fortnite, sued Apple with this absolutely epic video that they dropped as soon as Fortnite got kicked off the App Store. Basically what happened is that Epic had a system in Fortnite that would allow you to go buy the Fortnite Bucks somewhere else for cheaper. They knew it was against the rules.

You have V-Bucks. V-Bucks. V-Bucks. Yeah. They knew it was against the rules. You have V-Bucks. V-Bucks. V-Bucks. V-Bucks. They knew it was against the rules. Apple kicked them off the App Store. They immediately dropped a lawsuit and this 1980 Fortnite video. Banger video.

Do you remember this? It was so good. Yeah. It was an iconic. It was a whole PR stunt. It was a whole PR stunt. They had it ready. They were doing this on purpose.

Apple walked right into it. They did. They did walk right into it. So Epic sued them and it was a pretty long lawsuit that took a while to resolve, but it did resolve. And Apple actually won most of the case, which was quite ironic because Epic also sued Google, and Google lost the case,

and it was for almost the same thing. So it was kind of dumb. But part of the case that they did not win was that the judge decided that there needed to be anti-steering laws in place, which is to say, Apple is not allowed to not let developers tell people, you can go get this cheaper somewhere else. This whole problem stems from the fact that

Apple takes a 30% tax on all digital purchases through the App Store. And all microtransactions inside of apps. Right, which is a digital purchase. In the App Store as well, yeah. So anytime you buy an app, anything, and then anytime you buy anything in the app. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

And so- Famously Kindle books too. You could not buy Kindle books. Because it was a digital asset, which is ironic, because if you bought a real book on Amazon, it would not be subjected to that tax. But if you bought a Kindle book, it would be subject to that tax. But if you bought a Kindle book, it would be subjected to that tax.

So there were circumstances where physical books were cheaper than e-books because of this. Especially at your local independent bookstore. Yes, yes, okay. So the part that Epic won was that the judge said that they couldn't stop developers from telling people, oh, you can go get this cheaper somewhere else or go to this link so that you can go onto the web.

If you remember correctly, Apple implemented this fairly quickly, but they did it in the most malicious compliance way possible. They created this extremely complex thing for developers where they were like, okay, well, technically, you can allow people to go off of the App Store into the web, but they added all of these pop-ups that were like, are you sure you wanna go to the web? We can't control what happens there. Commit crimes?

Do it. Yes, so yeah, it was very scary, and Apple basically had a very bad faith interpretation of that ruling. So what happened next was that Apple, the case kept going and Apple basically got caught doing a bunch of malicious compliancy things that the judge decided was like not fitting into the law that she had told them to do, right? So there was this injunction that came down a few days ago and

it was basically saying like, oh, you didn't listen to anything I said. You just created all these bad faith interpretations of my ruling and now I'm gonna screw you over because you screwed me over. You didn't learn a lesson from this, Now I need to teach you a lesson. Yeah. Yeah. So there were all of these. TLDR. Yeah, pretty much. A lot of internal messages that Apple had sent to one another within the company got released.

And a lot of stuff that was in that was them repeatedly choosing the most like user hostile options possible to try to steer people away from doing anything off of the App Store. For example, Apple had to allow buttons, links, or others calls to action, which they interpreted as one of the other instead of one or the other instead of all of them. So the ruling said buttons, links, or other calls to action, and Apple was like, oh, so we can do a button, a link, or another call to action instead of all of them. So they created all these mockups that basically... That is the most lawyer thing.

Yeah. They created all these mockups that showed different options where it was like, okay, we could do this, we could do this, or we could make it really, really hard for the user to be able to use this thing. And there's these messages from people within Apple where they're saying like, oh, make it scarier, make it harder for the user. They literally said scarier,

and they were sending mockups to each other and just making them more and more convoluted, and there's messages from people within Apple being like, oh, keep going, make it even worse. No, it was literally, ooh, keep going. This also, I think to our audience, getting a little warning that says, are you sure you wanna go there?

We can't control it. We've all been there, we've all done that. We click it immediately. Wait, you've been on the internet? Yeah. Our parents, if my mom saw that, she would probably call me and be like, I think I have a virus on my phone

without even clicking the button. Sorry, mom, I know you're listening to this. But like. No, 100%. Yeah, like that's terrifying for 90% of phone users. Yeah, those dialog boxes are designed to stop you from doing it. It's kind of the same thing as like when you first,

well, maybe this is just something I do a lot, but when you first get an Android phone and you have never side loaded anything, you have to go into Chrome settings and be like, allow me to install things from not the Play Store so that every time I go to install something, like I side-load it, it doesn't pop up the dialog box and go, okay, just so you know,

this is not from the app store, are you sure you wanna do this? And I go, yes. So yeah, yeah, it's designed to stop you. You know how Apple already makes it hard for you to like open a YouTube video because it's like open in Safari, and it's that little dialog box.

They showed that as an option for going out of the App Store. They're like, no, we need to make it way worse. So they made a full page thing that said, are you sure you want to continue with a bunch of scary text that didn't make any sense, that just kind of freaked people out. They also on that window listed the developer name instead of the app name.

So it's like Apple cannot control this anymore. It's actually in the hands of developer name, which most people do not know who the developer of the app that they're using is. Or worse, it's like an indie developer who just goes by their real name. Right. And then you're like, who's this guy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The developer, like John Appleseed is going to be in control of your data now, it's all this stuff. There are even messages from a user experience manager at Apple who said that the phrasing sounds scary so execs will love it. Wow. Yeah.

It's just. And then the judge is reading all this like, y'all didn't learn anything. Yeah. Apple actually argued that scary did not mean something that would scare people but that it was an industry term that meant raising awareness or caution duh that's apple's got those good lawyers yeah yeah wow yeah not Not good enough. Yeah, for real. Because what, what, David, would you like to share what the judge said, the quote?

Oh, at the end of the injunction? Yeah. Like the Tim Cook chose poorly? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I have the exact thing here. It was something along the lines of like, you know, we gave Apple the choice of how to handle this, and he goes, and Cook chose poorly.

Yeah, there were a bunch of bangers in that injunction. OK, so also the judge had originally said that Apple could charge a fee for apps that were linked outside the App Store, but it needed to provide evidence that the company had a good reason to charge those numbers because she found that 30% wasn't actually based on anything. It's kind of just that random industry number that both Apple and Google decided on and that became the number.

So they are a bunch of conversations internally about what they should charge. Phil Schiller actually recommended that they didn't take any commission, which is quite surprising. But a lot of people were arguing and Tim Cook eventually was like, no, we're gonna do 27%. 27%. Yeah. Okay. So they still take a cut if you get linked to an app outside the app store and then, or a product outside the app store and then you have to back pay Apple that money. Wow.

Yeah. So in the new ruling, the judge was still very annoyed and said that they just came up with the 27% number out of nowhere, which was true. Yep. They also restricted developers from doing things like keeping users logged in. So every single time they would use a link, they couldn't use dynamic links. They just had to use regular web links. So if you wanted to like go to the Epic store or whatever, you'd have to log into your Epic account every time you wanted to buy V-Bucks.

Or like, yeah, every time you want to buy V-Bucks, which as someone who's spent way too much money on skins in other games, it's pretty often. Yeah. So like every time you want- I'm still waiting for that Gojo drop. Yeah. Like that's a lot.

And to sign in every single time with probably a really long password that you've changed a million times because your friends are trying to hack you for your sweet Fortnite skins. Yeah. Yeah. Got to stay protected out there. Yeah.

Okay. So what happens now? Apple now has to give developers zero restrictions when using buttons and links in their app to let users make purchases over the web. Because previously, when they would put that link in the app or button, as they defined it as even though it was like a regular little web link, they couldn't that link in the app or button as they defined it as even though It was like a regular little web link They couldn't put it in the standard area where you buy things in the app They had to put it somewhere else, which is insane. Like that's an insane rule. They can't do that anymore

They cannot take any commission for purchases made over the web Which is hilarious because the judge said you can you just have to like give me a justified number Like you have to justify that number and come up with reasons why that number makes sense And because they just pulled it out of a hat Now she's saying you can't take any commission anymore. They had a great reason made them a shit ton of money Exactly generated was incredible. Yeah this means that tons of apps are going to start including links to sign up for their subscriptions

or have microtransactions through their website so that Apple can't take that amount because now, if you're an app developer, you can have in the app, you know, buy this thing, but then Apple takes 30%, but now you can also have go to our store, it opens it in Safari or whatever your default web browser is, and you can pay through there. And Apple can't take any of that money now.

Yeah, I'm going to tell you, hey, it's going to be cheaper if you go this way. It's going to incentivize people. If they say this is 25% cheaper, the developer makes 5% more than they normally would, and they don't have to pay Apple, people are generally going to go with that option. Yeah. Which is kind of nuts. Like this is a very big thing to change for the App Store. It was also found that Apple's executive VP of Finance lied under oath about what that percentage was

because he had said that they came up with the number over a bunch of different, like, they came up with all this reasoning and it was at the last minute. And they actually had just come up with it earlier and were like, no, we're just going to take 27%. So she referred the California court to prosecute him potentially, which is kind of insane. Yeah. So there was a lot of drama that was going down here.

I have a question. Yeah. So you're saying that they now have links that developers can put it in their apps that will like open up on Safari right to do a thing. Yeah. So in the app can't they also incentivize developers to put like a pay with Apple Pay option? Yeah. So would that still have the 30%? Yeah. As long as the payment is not leaving the app. If your payment is made within the app, Apple takes 30%. Sheesh. Yeah. But if you go to like a website, then it's different.

I'm assuming these apps are also going to like, go really hard into the like, please go buy over here. You will spend way less money and- 100%. Yeah. We've already seen a bunch of developers do this. Spotify has already done this. Patreon is doing that this week.

Fortnite, like Epic is doing it this week, they're putting Fortnite back on the app store. Yeah, they're putting it back on the app store. In the next week, so. They're putting it back, that's the news, why didn't we do it with that? Yeah, well no, that's what all this boils, like, they want. Yeah.

Because the whole reason they got kicked off the app store was because they did this, and now because they legally have to allow this, they're not violating anything anymore, so they have to allow them back on the App Store, which is crazy. So the future of this is going to be very interesting because if Apple can no longer take 30% on every purchase anymore because it is to the user's benefit to be able to go onto the web and buy something for cheaper, Apple services revenue off of the App Store is gonna drop significantly,

and that's like a huge portion of their revenue. Yeah. So. Yeah, that's one of the, I mean, it hits them where it hurts. That's a big deal for Apple. Very interesting. Does this make the App Store less appealing to new developers?

I mean. Why? I mean, yeah. I feel like it makes it more appealing. Because you can use it as a platform for visibility, but then also send people out to get from your website. Yeah. It also, it makes Apple have to actually like make it worth buying things within the app right there. Like are there actual things they're doing for these developers to make it

easier to pay inside the app versus going to website? Cause there are people who will pay a little bit of a premium to make like a one tap payment or something like that. But if you're charging these crazy fees, I'm always going to take the extra five minutes to save 30% on my galaxy Fortnite scan. Right. Yeah. Comment that I saw online

was that these indie developers and smaller developers, you could say whether or not Epic is indie or not, but they're effectively subsidizing like a bank app, for example. Chase Bank pays $100 a year for that developer fee, and that is all they pay to Apple to host the Chase app. And Chase gets so much more value from hosting the Chase app

than a small indie developer does who every time they have any sort of subscription or any microtransaction, Apple takes 30% of that. That is insane. And so now it's sort of like evening the playing field so that everyone sort of has the same opportunity. Because Chase is the same way, any bank is the same way. You sign up for the bank on a web browser or whatever.

You go to a bank, you do that. You sign in through the app and it's just a portal. And that's what's gonna be the case for pretty much all apps now. Big, big change. Apple is of course going to appeal this, but the judge did say there will not be another bite at the Apple as her last sentence in the injection. Is this a rapper?

This sounds like a Netflix like drama. Yeah. Kind of with some of the lines that are dropping. She was really mad. She was really mad. Incredible. Yeah. That's one thing I find really interesting about all of this is like, man, Fortnite's really been around for a while. Yeah. That the fact that this is still like a big thing where they're bringing it back. And this started in 2021 when Fortnite was already huge. Like, I mean, they have Sabrina Carpenter now, you know, I was talking about this

the other night with my friend because I hopped on Fortnite for like the first time. Actually, no, the second time ever. And he was telling me about all the new, like, updates that they did and all the new collabs. And I was like, is this the best game ever? It is insane how big this game is and how every season people are so hyped to play this game still. Dota 2, my like a word.

I know no one that plays Dota 2 besides you. Am I no one to you, Adam? Besides you. I think you could argue right off the bat and current games that are very popular have been for a long time is like Minecraft's pretty up there also. More than Fortnite?

Yeah, it's been around longer. Not yet. Oh, that's true. But they have had concerts in Fortnite. Does that consider it a movie? It's close. I'm just thinking about like, you know, the pantheon of media.

Is this a movie? Minecraft's probably 1A and Fortnite 1b. I think at this point. Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know Fortnite probably makes way more money than Minecraft I'm totally guessing on that because of how many crazy micro transactions there are in that game was skin. Yeah stuff like that, but like Man, you just keep thinking for tonight's gonna die and it's still chugging I mean it is crazy. Like a lot of developers will release a game and then they maybe do like one or two seasons

and they're like, we're gonna stop supporting this now. Or here's the new version. Or here's the new version. Whereas Epic is just like, yeah, new things coming out every few weeks forever. But it's easy for them because they can just do all these collaborations, right? Now they have Star Wars coming out.

I mean, they're killing it. It came out, that's why I jumped on. Oh, you did? I got the Luke Skywalker skin, baby. The fact that they can grab someone who's played the game one time to just jump on, and I bet that was like a $30 skin. 22.99, I think.

Bro, you literally played one time, jumped on, spent 22 bucks, and I bet you don't even. I think I spent like 8.99 real life money on the V books. I don't know. They got me more or less is what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. So there's been a lot of, there's been a lot of tech antitrust stuff going on recently. There's a big story about how Google might have to sell Chrome. Nobody knows who's going to buy that. If that happens, the ad tech business for Google might get broken up and have to be sold off. There's a lot of crazy stuff. It seems to be the theme of 2025 along with tariffs.

Yeah. Well, a lot of this stuff started in like 2021. We're just getting like real things we're almost seeing. It's still like some actual action towards it. Okay, last little thing in this section before we go to trivia. There is a new hard drive art thingy out that I want Here are my 100 bullet points and this is pretty hard drive

Yeah, there is a company called Buffalo that is bringing back this hard drive design from 1998 It's called the skeleton hard disk and it basically shows the discs spinning on the inside skeleton hard disk and it basically shows the disk spinning on the inside. It's very pretty. It's kind of an accessory for your desktop with a little window that can show it spinning and you can see the little the disk needle moving around. Yeah. And there's software that makes it so that you can just make the disk needle move in different ways. There's one where it moves like a metronome. Yeah, there's one where it moves like a metronome. So what did it, it's like a standing up hard disk. It looks like a wireless phone charger. Kind of, yeah. It's black and gold.

It looks really nice. I have two huge gripes and one I think I'm, I hope I'm wrong about. This is an actual hard drive disk, right? Like a spinning hard drive disk. We're still using these? It's four terabytes. Yeah.

Well, yeah, it's four terabytes. I'm not gonna store anything you care about on this. Some people do. No, but these- I got a spinner at home. Yeah, but I'm not gonna buy a new one today. I bought one new one three weeks ago. I'll do.

Some people do. Let's talk about transfer speeds with the micro USB this thing comes with a It's that's that's USB C. That's micro USB micro us. It's not just micro micro be yeah micro Okay, but look 700 dollars Jesus counterpoint if it's permanently on my desk, I don't really care what cable it's using. I do. So you're not gonna store stuff on it?

Well, yeah, I would. I probably would. Unless I used it as a metronome the whole time. That seems like you wouldn't want to actively break down your hard drive for the art of it and also store things you care about on it. Seems like a one or the other type of thing. I mean, like image storage that I only have to access every now and then, you care about on it. Seems like a one or the other type of thing. I mean like image storage

that I only have to access every now and then, you know? Time machine. Time machine. Four terabytes. I don't know. That's what mine's for. Yeah. Nostalgia hits people in funny ways, you know?

I'm not nostalgia for micro B. Or hard drives, to be honest. But it's so pretty. I'm a little nostalgic for hard drives. Come on. Not using them. They're cool. I had some hard drive nightmares and I was so pretty. I'm a little nostalgic for hard drives. Come on. Not using them. They're cool.

I had some hard drive nightmares and I was so happy. I was right in the age where we were growing up with SSDs for the first time where people would buy like a 60 gig SSD to put the OS on and then store everything else on the hard drive because SSDs were so expensive. You couldn't put everything on an SSD. Yeah, just.

But SSDs are so much better than a hard drive. It was like, I gotta have something on an SSD. You put your OS on the SSD so it boots really fast. Exactly. Like a hard drive, an SSD, I like plug in an external one and it's not working. And I'm like, is this fine? Why is it not connecting?

Where a hard drive, I know and that's not working. Cause it's like, pshh. Yeah. This is true. I just feel like there's, I don't know, hard drives, I don't lust for old hard drive tech anymore. I love moving on from old hard drives.

But it's beautiful. I agree it's designed well. It kinda looks like an album, like a showcase for an album or something. But that's cool. This looks like a MagSafe charger, that's it. That you would put your phone onto. With a clear thing.

Yeah, it's three pounds, it's four terabytes. And if you've got $695 burning a hole in your pocket, you too could own one of these drives and plug it in via micro USB-B. The micro-B part is out. B is the one that's, it's micro, but it has the extra additional little prong. Yeah, it's so bad.

That's like the S5 came with that, but you can just plug a regular micro-E also in. It just makes it faster if you do. Okay, counterpoint. Wait, to his or to mine? To all of y'all. What? Interesting.

There is a very similar product that exists that if you just want the aesthetics of this and nothing more, it is made by the company that makes those terrible headphones. Sorry, It is made by the company that makes those terrible headphones. Sorry. It is made by the company that makes those. Cool headphones. It's made by the company that makes the headphones

that David likes. Yeah, from last year. KM5. Yeah. They make a CD player. I believe it's called the CP2. Oh yeah. Yeah, the CP2.

You can't, I can just go buy a CD player. I am in the market for a CD player and this seems like the one I want. But yeah, if you want this, but instead of a hard drive, to buy a CD player. I am in the market for a CD player and this seems like the one I want. But yeah, if you want this but instead of a hard drive, it's a CD. It's right there. I want the headphones and I don't want a CD player and you want a CD player but on the headphones, why don't we just buy the bundle and split it? Wait, there's a bundle? There probably isn't but I might email them and ask them.

Yeah, it's like a thousand bucks. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, maybe. Also, you need to, this hard drive, you need to enter in a drawing. Oh yeah, there's only 500. Because there's only 50 units. Oh, there's 50? 50 units priced at 100,000 yen. I thought there was 500.

So around 700. Available for purchase starting in June via lottery. That makes it even more like you want it more. It's probably because they could only find 50 microbe cables. All they need to do is have me open up to my suitcase full of cables and I've got 50 microbe cables for them right there.

That's wild. Well, trivia. It's funny because nostalgia, it'll hit me, it'll be like something that I cared about as a kid and I'll be like, this is beautiful, I love it, I want one, like the Zune HD, yes please, I need it, bring it back. I was just gonna say, what if it's a hard drive

that looks like the Zune HD? Then I would love it, but then as soon as it's something that I don't care about, I'm like, this is dumb, like why would anyone want this? Wow. I would use an HTC Thunderbolt again. If it was just like better screen. That was actually the worst phone I've ever used.

Sorry, not Thunderbolt, my B. One M8. Oh, I love that phone. Or M7. The play version or the regular version. Yeah, the Thunderbolt was horrible. The Thunderbolt burned my hand. It was like the first 5G, 4G smartphone.

And I remember having it and it died before the end of the school day. Think about how fast your phone has to die. That was so long ago because you were in school. Yeah, I remember in fifth grade, I'd be in like seventh period biology. I'd be like, my phone's gonna die

and I don't have a way to charge it. And that would be a problem. You didn't have your microbe. You're a tech reviewer and I'd be like, eh, it has its downsides. Your phone could die. Yeah, I was trying to do Skype and one other thing at the same time

and it overheated and burned my hand. Rest in peace, Skype. I know, rest in peace, officially, Skype. That's true. Wait, what? Teams, we never even got live translation! Maybe Skype had to die for live translation to run, you know what I'm saying?

Okay, trivia. Matias Duarte. Oh yes. OG. Is a Chilean American computer interface designer that worked on WebOS, the hip top. And then Google picked him up, obviously, to work on, you know, Android things.

Material you. What a god. That too. The first version of Android that he himself worked on was what? If it's what I think it is, that's gonna be really funny. Hint, this version of Android debuted on the Motorola Zoom tablet.

Zoom with an X. It is what I thought. I love this tablet. These two questions, the amount that these two understand is like 98%, the amount I understand is literally less than one. If you get at an Android version, you can probably get it.

You should be able to say the name instead of the number too. That might help. I'll take both, but I'll give you an extra point if you get both. Name and number. I mean, I reviewed it, so I have no excuse not to know it, but yeah.

I'm between two because of reasons that I can't say. I'm writing it down now so that I don't What about the last one the last question the first question? I'm just gonna cover it up You know if you're between two answers and you're you know choosing which one and you're going back and forth You could be saying that you're switching Between those switching between two It is a switch. You know what's funny?

I thought that that joke got unfunny faster than the audience did. You know? You were making it. I know. Every day. We gotta go, we gotta go to break. This is plummeting.

Okay, all right. We'll see you soon. Switch to. Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! All right, welcome back. For our last little bit, I wanted to ask our fellow hosts what they think will be more exciting this year. Google I.O. or WWDC. I.O. Well, wait, can we count the like little pre Android event

the week before I.O.? Sure. I vote that because Dubdub is just going to be what Dubdub was last year because they're still releasing the same thing. They just re-announce Apple Intelligence again. They just replay the same thing. Yeah. 24 crossed out. Oh, yeah. 2025.

Yeah, but we are getting new UIs for both of these things. Because remember, they're getting the very Vision OS style UI stuff. Glass. And then also the new Android version is also supposed to be really glassy. But it's also going to have material 3 expressive. Gemini 2.5 with tape research.

Both could be interesting. I guess the question is, so okay, we can do our little preview of each of them coming up. I.O. is coming up first, then WWDC is coming up later in the summer. Google I.O. happens every year. It's Google's developer conference where they talk about all the new stuff happening on the software front. But this year, they've separated out the Android part of it, which is usually the part I'm most interested in, because we suspect there is gonna be a lot of AI,

Gemini, et cetera, in the main IO. But I'm looping them both together because I think they're both interesting and I do expect a good amount of new software stuff like we talked about with Android, with the new UI, with Material 3, expressive, et cetera. It could be fun to watch. WWDC, we actually have some leaks,

or at least some themes to expect according to Mark Gurman, which I also think are interesting. There's three main bullet points. He writes redesigned and more cohesive operating systems, which is what you mentioned with like Vision OS and the glass, new Apple intelligence capabilities, which to me is- But we didn't get the old ones yet.

Yeah. Are you adding to the list or what's happening here? And then lastly, major enhancements to the iPad's OS. It just turns into Mac OS. Now every year we have this discussion. The iPad gets more powerful, it gets a better chip, it does slightly more stuff, but it's never, we make the same video every year.

Yeah, we do. Some YouTuber goes, can it be my computer? And then they use it for a week and they go, actually it's kind of good at some stuff and kind of not that good, but Apple intentionally makes it a little confusing. So when I see major enhancements to the iPad's OS, it's kind of like reading Tesla Roadster.

I go, oh really, this time it's for real, huh? And I don't want to get my hopes up too high. But Marques, this time will be different. This time they're really gonna do it. Actually, this video's got a pretty good shot at it. No, really, yeah. No, I don't know what to expect by major enhancements because I feel like it could just be a different way

of organizing the windows that Apple already does, or it could be a dramatic thing that we're not expecting. The two rumors I read are a new menu bar and a new way of doing stage manager. Both of them seem to be specifically when you connect them to the magic keyboard, which make them feel more like a Mac. Sure. Yeah.

But can I move my mouse around freely or will it still snap magnetically to random icons? I haven't used it. It's probably going to still snap. Yeah. Well, you can haven't used that. It's probably gonna still snap. Yeah. Well, you can move it freely between icons, but then when you move near an icon, it snaps to the icon. So like those common touch points. Yeah. Which is actually, I thought it worked pretty well.

That was pretty good actually. Yeah. It's, you know, like it. I didn't like it. It's weird. You guys need aim assist? It's not that we need it. It's just that it felt good. There are certain small touch points, like in the corners or on like small items you'd normally touch with your finger,

where it would be frustrating if you missed. So they just make sure you don't miss. So if you were gonna click like a blank space next to an icon, that wouldn't have done anything. So they just snap you to the thing you were gonna hit. So like when you're using the touch pad? Yeah. Yeah, so you got using the touch pad? Yeah. Yeah, so you got a little glowing white circle

for a cursor. I don't know why, but it did work. I wanna try, I wanna go test this out. Sorry, I do wanna try. I think it works pretty well. Yeah, that sounds disgusting. I know it didn't work. I just wanna know if I can move it however I want.

I just wanna know if I have free will on my... You have free will? It's right between free will and determinism. It's like right below it. You just, you can't press the pixels next to the icon. Why would you want to? You have free will, but I know best. Yeah.

You can't drive off the side of the road, but why would you want to? It's like lane assist. It's lane assist. It's aim assist. It literally is aim assist on your desktop. Cars have lane assist, so you feel yourself like,'s aim assist. It literally is aim assist on your desktop. Cars have lane assist, so you feel yourself like,

you know, getting too close to the yellow line. That's true. It like bounces you back to the middle. I hate that. And on one hand, oh no, I don't have free will, but on the other hand, there's families over there that I need to not crash into. So yeah, it's like keeping you doing what you want to do.

You know? Cool. Bumper bowling. I don't know. Bumper bowling. It's a thing you doing what you want to do. You know? Cool. Bumper bowling. I don't know. Bumper bowling. It's a thing you can do. Wow. If you want to.

But yeah, we'll see. This is all like stuff TBD this summer and I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high. I also, I mean, we've talked, we've had the Glass iOS discussion before. I'm not really sure exactly what that looks like, but it could happen. I'm excited for the mini, mini I.O. for Google

that's all about Android. The Android show as they call it. What is it gonna be about? Material 3 Express powered by Gemini Nano. It's gonna be the version of Android that you see on the next pixel and only the next pixel. Yeah. Basically. Until two months after that

and then it's on all the pixels. Yeah, then it comes to Google Photos. But and then it's on all the pixels. Yeah Like I've accepted that I like we just got this one UI 8 update on on our Samsung phones and seven Sorry when you I just downloaded it today. Just got it this morning I got a very little changed but you know, there's some new stuff. It looks pretty different Wait, am I coming from is this one UI 8? Are you talking about this? No 7 this 7 though like how now you yeah the notifications and the Been on this for a while. Oh you have yeah. I just got it this morning. I hate that. My app drawer is not Pages, it's one singular sliding

I guess I was in a beta for a while, that's why. I'm actually kind of liking, I know a lot of people are mad at the swipe from the right for quick settings, swipe from the left, that's cool. A little dynamic island, actually. Two swipes this time. But if you just swipe down from anywhere on the phone, then it's your notifications.

So I think it's very specific to go to your settings top right. When do we start talking about this? I don't remember exactly. Android. Anyway, I'm excited because for the last like two months, specific to go to your settings top right. When do we start talking about this? I don't remember exactly. Android. Anyway, I'm excited because for the last two months, we have had to talk about some sort of court case

and now for the next essentially four weeks, we have straight, next week is mini I.O., the week after is I.O., the week after that is probably all the leaks for dub dub and then dub dub. It is the next month of bangers. I'm excited. Yeah. We've been in a little lull this year

and I think we're finally gonna get back to popping off. Everything's gonna pop off. We might go four whole episodes without saying the word tariff or court. Or switch. I don't know about that. Well, I'll keep track. Pump the brakes, Marques.

We were in a lull, now we're gonna be in an LMAO. You know what I mean? Yes. I get it. Can I propose? I know it. Can I propose? I know it's a bunch of, wait, you think I'm too young for LMFAO? Is that, oh no. Yes, actually the way you responded to that, I do think.

Not look, I was a fan of LMFAO both before and after they started party rocking. Excuse me, apologized for party rocking. Let's move forward. What were you gonna say, Alex? I wanna propose a over under bet, specifically for IO. Not mini IO.

Grandpa IO. Which is over under how many things, you know, I'm realizing I gamble so little, I don't even know if I'm doing over or under right actually. It's playable outro. Well, you just gotta parlay the money line in there. Yeah, so parlay this money line, fools. How many things will Google advertise

that you can now do as a podcast or understand as a podcast too? So how many times do they say the word podcast? How many times do they like, do you not wanna do this? Now it's a podcast, how many times do they say the word podcast? How many times do they like, do you not want to do this? Now it's a podcast. How many times will they turn something that's not a podcast into a podcast? One.

Seven. I don't know if we'll specifically see the podcast thing. I do think they're going to turn everything into something different with an LLM. I actually find the podcast thing occasionally useful where you can just drop in a URL and go give me a podcast about this and it's you use that I have used it I don't use it very often but it is a thing that's impressive that it can do but I don't think I think on

stage they're gonna spend a lot of time showing people developers users how they can either save time or do more effective deep research or whatever using these AI tools that they have. And they're gonna be everywhere. They're gonna be next to your calendar, next to your Gmail, next to your docs, next to everything they do. It's just gonna be Gemini, all the things.

And maybe you can also have them turn your Gmail inbox into a podcast or something. I'm setting the podcast, I'm setting the split at two. So Mark, you have under, you're taking the under. Let's set it at one and a half. One and a half, okay great. So I'm taking the under. Okay, I'm going the over.

Over. Over, yeah I think it's gonna be two. Really, broadcast stuff, okay. Yeah, I think they're gonna be like, it's the feature that I see people talk about the most on the internet. They've been talking about Notebook LM, there's a whole app coming out for Notebook LM very soon

and it's probably just gonna launch at IO at this point. And whenever I see people talk about Notebook LM, I do see people, especially on Discord, talk about like really cool things they've done with Notebook LM. But most of the stuff I see is just like, yo, do you not wanna read this entire recipe on how to make this soup?

Just turn it into three chefs having a podcast where they talk about how to make the soup. Yeah. Right. It is kinda cheesy after a while. But if you're that type of learner, some people are visual learners and they have a tool for that. Some people are auditory learners.

Some people are podcast learners. Then they do that. I'm gonna turn our YouTube comments into a podcast and that's how I'm gonna gauge feedback from every episode Yeah Yeah Three AI creators like having a riff about the podcast comment section. Wait, actually I kind of want it Right now is gemini generated by notebook LM it was but we're not supposed to be self-aware, so let's stay away from that topic.

Adam, what do you have? Free will. All of our comments are bots anyway, so it doesn't matter. No, no, no, no, no. They're lovely, lovely people with red blood in their veins. Yeah, they're all doing the dishes. You think an AI can do the dishes?

All it can do is make a podcast about doing the dishes. Yeah. It is funny, because some of those Notebook LM podcasts like have inside jokes and will joke about things the dishes. Yeah. It is funny because some of those notebook LLM podcasts like have inside jokes and we'll joke about things the exact same way we are. And it kind of feels like we're inside of one of those podcasts right now. Where do you think they learned it from?

That's true. Now that I think about it, I don't remember coming into this room or leaving it. No, yeah, you're definitely in a notebook LLM podcast right now. I don't think LLMs can feel the humidity that is in this room right now. What if life is just one big podcast? Damn, that's deep.

Damn. What's that show? What's that? The Truman Show? What is that? The Truman Show, yeah. Yeah. That's a fun cast.

It kind of feels like that sometimes as a podcast. This is season 30 of my podcast. We're going off the rails, which means, which means it's time. You know what it's time for. The trivia podcast? Trivia podcast. Not yet.

Now. That was, that was really good. Yeah. Guys, guys, guys. Yes chef. You guys, you guys think you're so smart. Well, if you're so smart. Why don't we say that? God, it is really sticky.

It's so hot in here. Did you see my answer? I'm just not even gonna answer. Oh, oh well. It's fine. It's okay, Andrew, I have a very special question just for you, since you saw his answers. But for David and Marquez.

Yes. Aero, Metro, and Fluent are three iterations of what tech companies design language. And Andrew. I was not gonna get this, so seeing the answer does not matter. Well, Andrew, good for you. This was actually the second question I wrote

because I didn't like the first one. So you can answer. Oh. What. Okay. What. What was the first generation of the iPhone to have a pro model? Well, I want to answer that one too. No

I already know that as well Pro yeah, bro. I think I know I haven't decided everyone can answer that question. I don't know, there's no rules. It's 90% humidity in here. There's no rules, then I'm gonna copy Marques' answer. No, that's a rule. That's a rule. No, that is one of the rules. What's up?

Welcome to my podcast about the rules of a trivia game that I made up. That was my notebook LLM voice impression. 10, 11. All right, David. Microsoft. Correct. iPhone 11 Pro.

Also correct. I guess we're all answering. I just wrote 11 because you said. That's what I was looking for, baby. Yeah, I wrote Microsoft as well. All right, so two points for David and Marques. One point for Andrew. Wait, wait, Marques put 12.

Wait, are we including that with our answers? Marques put 12? Marques put 12. Wow. You just assumed he got it right. Oh man. I wish I got that Well, wait till next week to take that point away, but I just like black out of the booth I was like, oh, I put 11 great. I should have put 11. Oh my god, I'm ending my lead That is so sad. I thought that was an Andrew question, and now I just lost a point. Heavy eraser.

Dang. Quick update on the score after that big flounder fumble by Marquez. Marquez with 21, Andrew with 12, David with 25. 21. You know who's bigger than 21? 25. Well played.

Was it? All right. Twenty five. Well played. Was it? Alright. Matias Duarte, Chilean-American interface designer, worked on a bunch of bangers like WebOS and HipTop. Also, at Google, worked on Android. What was the first version

of Android that he worked on? The debut on? That debuted on the Motorola Zoom tablet. So fun fact, the Motorola Zoom, it's spelled with an X, and it's actually pronounced Motorola Eggzoom, because it was released the same year that King Tut's sarcophagus was unearthed. Wait, are you joking?

No, that's real, bro. That's real, I'm not making this up. I didn't make up any of that. What does King Tut have to do with Eggzoom? Eggzoom, like they eggzoomed the tomb. What does King Tut have to do with exome? Exome, like they exhumed the tomb. What does that mean? It means to unearth.

Oh, okay. The more you know. Flip him and read what we got. 5.0 honeycomb. Yeah, honeycomb but not five. Oh. What? What'd you say? Wait, then.

Don't worry, I'll explain. Andrew, what'd you say? I wrote six. Wrong't worry, I'll explain. Andrew, what'd you say? I wrote six. Wrong. Marquez. It's honeycomb. Correct. The number, when we think about the number.

Oh, is it 4.1? H-I, 4.0 is ice cream sandwich. Yeah, was it 4.1? So H would be 3.2, maybe. It's three. I'll give it to you. Okay. Nice.

Or three, three, all the threes, yeah. Yeah, all the threes are honeycomb, all the fours are ice cream sandwich. Wait, so what's this? Five was... No, no, no, no, all the threes, yeah. Yeah, all the threes are honeycomb, all the fours are ice cream sandwich. Wait, so what's this? Five was... No, no, no, no, like what is this as a correct or incorrect answer? Because he got honeycomb, but not 5.0.

So could I just write seven answers, and if one of them is right? I told you to just guess. You did technically guess twice, and you got one wrong. Yeah, that's two guesses, so if one's wrong, and one of them is... Remember I said I'd give one point for the version number, and one point for the name.

You did? Yeah, yeah. Wait, do I get two points? Yeah, you the oh point for the name okay yeah yeah wait do I get two points yeah you got two points for that we didn't put the version I didn't know that wait you didn't put the version no I said that no if I had heard that I would have written it down 15 minutes earlier I'll take both but sure I'll give you an extra point if you get both. All right. I think we need it. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

I didn't just true this thought. I'm done. Thanks for coming to this episode of the Notebook LLM podcast. Just kidding. Let's take us out. Hey, well, thanks for listening to this episode. We hope it satisfied your prompt.

Let us know if you want to have another discussion and just put in another prompt and we'll make another podcast about it. The prompt section is down there. It's disguised as a comment section, but it's just a prompt for the next LLM podcast. Catch you guys next week. Peace.

We're from, it's produced by Adam Malina and Ellis Roven. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our podcast for music was created by Vane Sill. Bingo. Let's go. Now the word sancti key is the meaning for one word that has, that means two different things. Anyway, this is how, so there's a,

God, the backstory is the lamest lore ever, but there is YouTube channels that are just pronunciation guides. So if you're an English speaking second language, you would find one of these channels and you'd find a hard to pronounce word and you'd go, oh, that's how you pronounce synecdoche. So it'd be a very official looking thumbnail like this.

And you click on it and then this is... Syna kinda dody chody. Nena kinda dody chody.