Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Apple's Bob Borchers and Tim Millet Talk the M1 Chip & Brandon Havard Explains Cinematic Intros

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

Today, we dive briefly into Bunny the talking dog and the PS5 launch, before sitting down with Apple's Bob Borchers, VP of Product Marketing, and Tim Millet, VP of Platform Architecture, to talk about the recently-announced Apple Silicon M1 chip. Next, we bring in MKBHD Visual Director, Brandon Havard, to explain the magic behind some of the recent eye-catching MKBHD intro shots. Links: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganell https://twitter.com/BrandonJHavard https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com Music by KamrenB: https://spoti.fi/2WRJOFh Bunny the Dog: https://bit.ly/38BZCm9 Brandon's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCABwqCK6XMowQDwlIz00UFw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. All right, welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques Brownlee. And I'm Andrew Manganielli.

And we got a bunch of fun stuff again today. So, okay, we're going to talk about PS5. There's a bunch of tech happening, of course. Reviews are kind of out now. Ours is right around the corner, and that's a fun one. After that, I actually sat down with two Apple VPs to talk about Apple Silicon, the M1 chip, and the products they just put them in from their little November One More Thing event, plus a little glance into the future there.

Then afterwards, we're going to welcome back Brandon Havard, MKBHD set designer, visual director, and we'll talk a little more about some of the incredible intros we've had to some of the videos on the channel lately. Sort of a peek behind the curtain, if you will, at the magic that happens there. So if you've been looking forward to that, stay tuned. That's all coming up. But recently, you know what I noticed? If you look back on the last, I think it's seven videos on the channel, they have all been either PlayStation or almost all iPhone, but PlayStation or Apple. That's the last seven that's funny like i guess really thinking about it yeah and it makes total sense by the way like those are probably two of the hyper

the hypest things coming out we've been using the term hype a lot of hype it makes me really sad actually um but yeah it makes sense i don't like to think that i guess i've just grouped all the iphone things into like one giant project and well they've sort of just been like it wasn't that long ago the the strategy they've had is like, I think they could have come out with all the iPhones at the same time. But you know, that little tweak that we use where we'll post a video like one minute

or two minutes after the embargo. So it's the top of the sub box. It's a real strategy, but I feel like that's kind of a version of what Apple is doing, where it's like, they're gonna stay in press. They're gonna stay in the news with the iPhone for weeks on weeks on weeks in a row. Yeah, it's funny because like even if they came out before a Samsung or before a Google or OnePlus, like they would probably still command quite a bit of the tech news.

But like this gives no chance of any smartphone anything to really come and take over the the headlines from them the iphone 12 pro max and 12 mini reviews dropped at the same time as the xbox debuting going on sale xbox series x and actually even past smartphone tech we're just on to other tech it's door yeah i mean they buried a nokia phone too it's a whole thing but hey that's apple that's the the attention they command but we were gonna talk because playstation also has so much hype i guess the reason we know it's hype is because the unboxing has 11 million views what other unboxing does that other than the iphone right um have we even had an iphone hit like that level of unboxing it's funny the iphone 12 also hit 11 million views. Did it?

But previously, it usually takes you know, other products a very long time to get anywhere near that number. And a lot of people have subscribed to the channel since that, waiting for the review of the PlayStation 5 so it's pretty fair to say we've had a pretty good couple of weeks talking about just these two companies and their products

but don't worry, there's a bunch of back to the other product stuff coming after this stuff the holiday season rolls around we get to our end of year bigger projects which are fun i feel like we get to hit a bunch of things we have a dope tech in the works also so like probably some stuff that's been out for a little while but we get to hit on a lot of things we've kind of maybe missed during the busy season and then obviously our favorite end of the year stuff's coming up so yeah it's really when i when i talked about in the last episode it's like our playoffs of our workflow it's just because it's new product new product new

product new product and it can kind of feel like that's all we're doing is just talking about new products but once this time of year ends then we can go back to talking about tech in general and comparing all the best things that came out this year, all that fun stuff. This week on Things We Enjoyed, I have a fun little article from The Verge. Tell me if you've seen, have you heard of Bunny the dog from TikTok? No. Okay. If I explain it to you, you might've seen it. It's this fairly large black and white dog. And it has this set of buttons around it that have individual words and it can

like press the buttons and says like, is that a hoax? I don't know. It seems wild. It is. I remember seeing it a few months ago and her mat has grown since then. Like she used to just have a couple of things like food outside walk. Now she's going into like time, like explain what this what's happening in these videos.

Okay. So best way to describe it. Do you know the, I hope everyone understands this reference, but I think it was staples, the easy button. Do you remember that? That was easy button. Just like plastic, big button. Imagine, I think the dog right now has 70 of those on individual color-coded platforms that have

different categories i i think each like pad has a different category so like each button has one word attributed to it and the dog has learned these words or we're assuming has learned these words, or we're assuming has learned these words and is now creating almost full sentences out of pressing these buttons on the maps on the ground. And it has grown from just pure wonder to it's gotten so popular people are memeing it now and it's hilarious. The memes are pretty great of going over the top with it. Like existential crisis bunny and yeah because it's gone from just the dog pressing the button that says food and then the button that says now and so the dog will walk over and just go food now food now yeah and they'll get fed and it's like i could see that working but then it goes so much further like there's a

thousand other you said 70 but i think 70 buttons right now i honestly don't if you put 70 buttons in front of me and told me to make a complete sentence it would take me a while to like find all the words to say what i want to say i i'm gonna go i'd hate to i hate to spoil this for people but i'm gonna go with fun coincidence that the dog makes sentences i don't think it i think it walks over and it knows it can get treats out of hitting buttons but i don't know that it's making sentences on purpose i think one of the things that um makes me really wonder about it is not all of them are food based there's a lot of like walk and play and beach and some of them will be like presses the walk button and the

person says okay and then bunny goes to the door so it's like all right some of these but anyways the verge article though is talking uh interviewing a couple scientists and how what they're thinking about this and while they haven't gotten to do much much research due to covid how they're going to continue to potentially research this and research in the future when they can get there but there there are people who are very interested in this to see if we actually are close to talking dogs and fingers crossed i want to talk to mac one day uh gotta get him some buttons now mac would just hit the food button non-stop and yeah um but yeah i thought that was interesting i'll put the article in the show notes but funny funny the dog if you guys haven't seen

it look it up if not just for the excellent memes that are out there it's uh yeah it's a fun one it's wild now we can go to playstation 5 all right so definitely i mean i don't want to spoil too much of the review, and you guys will see that when it comes out, but just I've been waiting for like a new generational leap of something for a while, and there's been so much talk about the PlayStation 5 controller

and the haptics in it and the adaptive triggers and hopefully games taking advantage of it that this was getting me excited that maybe this is it. Maybe this is actually a generational leap forward in some thing. It's somewhere in the middle between a generational leap and just a really good improvement. I still think it's a bigger leap

than what I'm seeing from Xbox because PlayStation has a new UI, PlayStation has a couple new features, PlayStation has the new controller. And I think all those things together add up to a little more than just more horsepower. Yeah, I haven't quite gotten to use the Xbox yet. I've used the PlayStation.

What's that like intro game that they have on there? Astro's Playroom. Astro's Playroom. I played that a little bit. And I do have to say that the new controller feels way better than old PlayStation controllers. That game lets you feel it a little bit different. There is some really cool haptic feedback have to say that the new controller feels way better than old playstation controllers that game lets you feel it a little bit different there is some really cool haptic feedback that i i think is

really awesome um as much as i like the new playstation controller i think xbox controllers are have a better layout i like the staggered joysticks i think it fits more comfortably in a hand maybe that's me being a lifelong xbox fan um and just growing up on an xbox controller but well here's what i'll ask you because the xbox is like the sort of standard pc controller whenever you connect a controller to a pc it's it's basically an xbox controller or a version of it right i know that i know a lot of people that play rocket league on a PlayStation controller. On their PC? On their PC, yeah.

Interesting. But okay, so you're really used to the Xbox controller. Yes. What would you be more impressed by or more likely to buy? I think those are two different options. Okay, what would you be more likely to buy? A version of the Xbox controller with better haptics

or a version of the PlayStation controller with a better layout? So it's basically like you have a choice between two consoles right now. Would you go with the Xbox just because you're more used to the layout or would you go with the PlayStation because you get used to the new layout in favor of the haptics? Just the controller? Yeah, because you've used the haptics now. Wait, wait, so I can get an Xbox with PlayStation ha haptics i'm not making this a very simple choice no actually i

so wait an xbox with xbox controller with playstation new haptics right or the playstation controller with the haptics it has the new haptics without the haptics without the haptics yeah but the xbox layout yeah let's go with that i think the xbox is the obvious choice in that one right because it already has the layout that i like but now gets the haptics which is the better part of playstation and then why do i make such dumb hypotheticals well i thought you were trying to tell me that the xbox got haptics and the playstation got the different layout but kept its haptics and then i was gonna say that's the same thing true so yeah uh i guess my my question is really how

impressed are you with the haptics very i think that i think you're a question before where you said what are you more likely to buy and what are you more impressed with i am more impressed with the playstation controller i am more likely to buy the Xbox controller because I think in the long run, comfortable-wise, comfortability-wise, whatever, it prevails. And I would, in the long run, like that more. That's interesting. I think in the long term, what I'm hoping to see is more games

slowly taking advantage of the haptics and making it worth it. Because I think now, right off the bat, there's about six or seven games that I've played. Astro's Playroom, if you have a PS5 or if you get one, you got to play Astro's Playroom. That is the best demo of what the controller is capable of. For sure.

Definitely play it, right? Outside of that, like I'll play Dirt and I'll drive across different terrain. And like, it feels like it's just a PS4 game. Like they didn't really code for it yet. Yeah, we're also, i don't know how many games we've played so far that have been fully integrated with the controller right now i think it's just three so the spider-man miles morales game has a little bit built in that's a ps5 game the astros playroom game of course and then i believe what is the last

uh i've played need for speed i maybe Dirt is a PS5 game, but it really just doesn't use the controller very much. And so my hope is that over time, we'll start to see game updates and we'll start to see more games over time that are more dedicated to the PS5 and the developers go in and go through the tweaks and make the control of that next level feel for immersion.

And I think over time long term the ps5 will be better than just having the initial comfort you're used to from the xbox controller okay yeah i would not doubt if almost every ps5 exclusive game comes out has some sort of like usability with the new controller options yeah Yeah. It would just totally make sense. Why else would you really go exclusive? Yeah. Without taking over. Can I say one quick thing about aesthetics?

I said the other day. Oh, yeah. All right. So I still am not a huge fan of what it looks like. Mm-hmm. Okay. I think in the right setup, the PlayStation 5 looks incredible.

Like we shot an intro, mostly Brandon shot an intro that looks incredible. And when the video comes out, you guys are all gonna love it. And it looks amazing. But it's because the environment it is in matches it. If you have a sick, very white, modern, maybe hints of black and blue in it the playstation 5 is going to look amazing

if you have like a very typical wood green uh like tv stand or like a a very rustic home or something is going to stick out like a sore thumb and it's going to look very strange so i think it has the ability to look amazing or just look totally out of place. Right. I think we were saying it has a higher ceiling and a lower floor than the Xbox design, which is kind of just going to basically blend in anywhere. Yeah. And I agree with that. I appreciate the ability to have a higher ceiling because I have the flexibility of like putting it vertically next to my TV and like, it looks kind of cool sitting there.

Do you have a setup that you could fit the PS5 in or would you have to put it in? It would just go in my living room. That's the only place we really have it. In the living room or in the basement near my workout setup. So that doesn't really have any aesthetics down there. Yeah, I think after a while, now it's been, what, two weeks, maybe three

since I've started using the PS5. Let's just say two. Let's say two weeks, for the meme's sake. I think I've gotten used to it visually. I can walk into a room now, and it's just kind of under the TV, and I'm fine with it. But yeah, I got no problem with that design.

The question is, how much do you care, or how much does your significant other care about when people come over and go, what on earth is that thing in the living room? I've heard that. That alien looking thing. Yeah. I feel like that's actually kind of an upside because you get a conversation piece. People have a conversation pieces in their homes all the time.

They'll put weird art on the wall. They'll put like ornaments on the middle of a table for no reason. This is just like a functional ornament basically. It's a conversation starter. Hey, what's that? Oh, it's the new console. It's got this game I really like. You should check it out. It's kind of starting the conversation. Cool. There you go. There it is. And there you go, Sony. Cut. You can use that as an ad. I'll just take 10% of all PS5 sales. Hashtag not sponsored. Yeah, no, seriously. I'm totally fine with the design i will have

the review of both the xbox and the playstation up at some point in the next week or so so you can check those out but yeah i think ps5 a lot of hype around this thing it's got to be the most hyped ever have we i think we have written in here ever ever i mean like the when i wrote that in these notes like i'm sure there's probably some console launching for the first time ever that may have been more hyped, but even, I don't know. There's always hype for consoles, but this is insane. I think it's just the most hype in the social media era.

Yeah, it's the era we're in. It's just more people are playing video games. More people this year are playing video games. True, it's 2020. Almost're in it's just more people are playing video games more people this year are playing video games true it's 2020 almost like investing in a console right now makes more sense because you know you're going to use it you know you're not just going to play it for a week and then forget about it you got we got time yeah you'll have time to play to get some uh some levels done and some games yeah no i think i think we we had the stat of 106 000 people have subscribed to the youtube channel on the watch page of the ps5 unboxing just on the watch page that's not

including the rest of the people who watched other videos and then subscribed or went to the channel page and subscribe there just people who are watching the video just hit the subscribe button on the watch page that is crazy that's that's have you ever checked that stat and remembered it for anything else I want to know what this site I'm assuming that's the most I wonder what the second most is honestly if I were to sort I would imagine there's maybe like one or two giveaways we've done in the past where people would just subscribe on the watch page actually I doubt a giveaway even has that much compared yeah it's just there's so much height

because that was also so specific like when you don't want to count that. Actually, I doubt a giveaway even has that much compared to that. It's just there's so much hype because that was also so specific. Like when you're doing unboxing and you're like, make sure you get subscribed for the full review, that's the type of thing people will subscribe for. I bet the iPhone has similar numbers, but I don't even think that's at 100,000. Actually, you know what? Let me check.

What do you bet? Do you think the iPhone is over or under? On the watch page, 106,000. Which one? The iPhone 12. iPhone 12 review? Un 12. iPhone 12 review? Or iPhone 12 unboxing? But that also has 11 million?

I'm guessing 60,000 subs from that page. I'm looking right now and it says 88,000. So, yeah, PS5 is hyped. There's just a lot of people just waiting to see what this thing is about. So the reviews are coming. I think it's time to take a quick break. We're going to come back, and we're going to talk to some VPs at Apple about what happened with Apple Silicon.

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with iGaming Ontario. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. All right, so welcome to the Waveform podcast. Bob and Tim, you haven't been on the podcast before, so I'm going to give you guys a chance to quickly introduce yourselves. And then I'll see if you can give me like a quick, let's say, 30-second intro to Apple Silicon in these new Macs and the M1 chip.

Awesome. That's great. I'm Bob Borchers. I work in product marketing at Apple. And I'm Tim Millay, and I manage the platform architecture team at Apple. And the 30-second pitch on M1 is that it is a huge leap forward for the Mac. It's a powerhouse of a chip that creates great opportunities in terms of performance, battery life, new capabilities, and we just couldn't be more excited

to take this next step forward in the history of the Mac. For sure. OK, so when I saw this announcement on stage, I'll do that in air quotes, on stage, I was very hyped for future Macs. Of course, there's a whole bunch more possibilities that are unlocked by this. But walk me through why you started this rollout with M1,

with MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini. Yeah, so let me give maybe a little overview, and then Tim can jump in with a lot more detail. The great thing about M1 is that it builds off of 10 years of work and development that began with creating silicon for the iPhone and for the iPad and the watch, and all of the capabilities that we've been able to develop over that period of time in terms of creating amazingly powerful systems in these compact form factors.

And as we looked at it and we looked at kind of the capabilities and where we could bring this huge improvement in terms of power and capability, we felt like MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini were the perfect fit. And as it turns out, those are some of our most popular systems. They are the systems in the homes and hands of millions of people. And we felt like it was a great opportunity to really kind of change the game and bring this new capability to those systems and turned out to be a perfect match for the capabilities of M1. Tim, you want to talk a little bit about how those match up? Yeah, no, absolutely.

I think, like you said, we wanted to go and hit the biggest target. We wanted to take one core silicon design and try to cover the broadest, most high impactful products that Apple has in the Mac lineup. And that's what we did. That's how we crafted M1. We kind of looked at that target and we found what's the sweet spot? How can we build a part that has the dynamic range that can go from that entry level MacBook Air all the way up to the 13-inch Pro.

And, you know, let's see what we can do with Mac Mini at the same time. And I think we really nailed it. I really feel like we did a nice job. And the thing about Apple is we're a product company, not a chip company. We build our silicon. We have the luxury as a chip designer. It's a luxury to know what you're targeting.

You know what the platform targeting. You know what the platform is. You don't have to make guesses about what a particular PC manufacturer might want or need. Apple, we've worked together, software, hardware, silicon. It really makes a big difference. And that's how M1 can really land and deliver so well on power performance the way it has. Yes. I mean, I'm assuming a lot of people watching this, you know, watched it on stage with me and saw those three X, five X numbers and they're all super, super impressive.

But I think a lot of the questions that come from that are a little more nuanced. So the same M1 chip is in, correct me if I'm wrong, all three of these machines, but they will see differences in performance because of thermals. You obviously have active cooling in the MacBook Pro, no fans in the MacBook Air. How big of a difference do you expect to see? I think one of the questions I was seeing most often was, should I get the MacBook Pro if the MacBook Air just got that much more powerful? I'll jump in. I think, you know, these are different products and have different target markets. You know, folks who love that light, thin and light enclosure, the classic MacBook Air enclosure, this is an uncompromised, there is no bad choice because M1, the uplift you saw yesterday is dramatic.

So if you're a MacBook Air user and you love your MacBook Air, this is a great, great option. If you're a MacBook Pro 13 user and you've been happy with that machine, again, it's a great, great, great upgrade. The nuance is really in the way we imagined. We knew we were going to target those two platforms, and we wanted to make sure we had the range to be able to do it. Because we were so obsessed with energy efficiency, getting into that 10-watt MacBook Air enclosure was actually right along the lines of the kind of work we've been doing for years for iPad Pro. And then with the idea of putting a fan in place, wow, that just means that we could actually put in a little bit more headroom, knowing that that cooling system was going to enable it

in those systems like the Mac Mini and the MacBook Pro 13. Yeah, and I think when you think about how people use the systems, that's where the difference comes in. And the fan allows you to have these more sustained workloads that might be more appropriate to pros who are, you know, editing video or doing things like that. And it creates an incredibly, you know, capable system.

And the MacBook Air is fantastic for the customer that has enjoyed that kind of system over time as well. So while they share a number of capabilities, they were really thought about and designed with different audiences in mind, as Tim pointed out. TIMOTHY JORDAN- Gotcha. And that makes a lot of sense. I mean, the MacBook Air is,

I think it was mentioned on stage, is the most popular Mac. And for people who are into MacBook Air, it's just a better MacBook Air in pretty much every way. So that's awesome. I think for me, when it was said on stage that the 13-inch MacBook Pro is the ultimate expression of what the M1 chip can be, I firmly believe that because you got this insane battery life number.

I think it was 20 hours of video playback and also got improved performance. How did you, when going through the designs and possibilities for the chip, how did you decide where you would, I mean, I'm assuming those are both really impressive numbers, but how do you decide if you should go more towards efficiency or more towards power? Is it just because you have a final product MacBook Pro you want to hit? Or are you just, let's see how much battery we can get? Again, coming back to Tim's point, at the end of the day, we ship products and experiences to customers, not just, you know, specifications. And so we really do think about balancing the parameters exactly like you're talking about, where is that right blend and where is that kind of magic sweet spot?

And the great thing with M1 is that we didn't actually have to compromise very much because of the performance per watt and kind of are, you know, the capabilities there, we could deliver these, you know, 3x improvements in, you know, in performance and machine learning and graphics and all of that while these insane battery lives come together. And that allowed us to kind of, I think, craft a new idea for what the Mac 13 inch MacBook Pro could be about. But Tim, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think that exactly what Bob said. I think another aspect to this is,

this is really the introduction of the mobile SOC and the mainstream computer. We've been building mobile SOCs, Bob mentioned, for more than a decade, really, starting with the phone. We introduced them in the iPad a few years after that. And I would say, architecturally, the difference between a conventional PC chipset and a mobile SoC is the integration of hardware acceleration.

And we do that for two reasons. For devices like the phone and the iPad, we need that touch-based responsiveness. And so there are many things we needed to build in to accelerate some of these capabilities. The GPU is sort of the obvious example because we find acceleration for graphics in both the mainstream PC as well as the mobile SoC. But beyond that, the mobile SoC, it accelerates video decode so that video playback is not a CPU-heavy task. We do the whole thing offloading the CPU. It stays in its lowest power state. We build on-chip caching to make sure we limit

how often we go out to the DRAM knowing it's more expensive. We use low power, but high performance, LPDDR. And so when we think about power versus performance, it really equates to efficiency. We don't separate power and performance because we know we can't deliver more performance into an iOS product historically unless we do it efficiently. It doesn't help us to make it faster but higher power because it doesn't translate to anything. That same goodness is now benefiting the Mac in exactly the ways

you're highlighting. How can it be both powerful, high performance, and long battery life? That's just in our DNA and the way we build chips. Very exciting for a lot of other Macs too. So you've never had active cooling in an Apple Silicon product. iPad hasn't had fans. iPhone's never had fans. How much did this help the performance of the M1 to finally actually have? I'm sure that was exciting for the engineers. We're finally going to have fans for these chips to really go crazy. How much did that help the performance of that 13-inch MacBook Pro with M1 chip?

It's interesting. I think you highlight some of the constraints that we had in building the mobile silicon for phone and pads. I want to start with that. Yeah, we didn't have fan. But I think it's safe to say that because we're a product company and because we are so tightly coupled and collaborative and dependent on each other, we have had an amazing thermal design team at Apple, probably the best in the world at building thermal solutions for the silicon that we build. And so though we didn't have active cooling, we had some amazingly creative people in our in our product design teams finding clever ways to distribute the heat evenly across the enclosure. So I want to call out to those guys, those folks.

The other part, though, is what did we get on the top? I think, you know, I wish I had a number in my head to tell you what it was, but you can benchmark the machine yourself. It's measurable. I mean, it's a pretty good number. I wouldn't say that, for example, somebody buying a MacBook Air is going to be disappointed because the way we like to think about it is most performance, we try to make sure we always have a little bit of headroom, even in chips that go into an iPad that doesn't have active cooling. And the reason is that we know that the way people use the machine, the way people use a GPU, for example,

bursty workloads are super important. If you're doing a swipe on an iPad Pro, it has a burst of activity that fires up, and it might exceed the thermal. Let's say you have a 10 watt iPad, it might exceed that 10 watts for a brief period of time, just enough to do a really interesting UI transition or a smooth scroll. But we know that thermally, we can sustain that for just a little bit and then you get back into a normal mode. So our GPUs always had headroom. So it's very possible that in many scenarios, you can't tell the difference.

Can't tell the difference because the use case isn't a sustained use case. And that goes back to the point that Bob made. If you have something that is long running and sustained, that's where that active cooling system really, really helps. Because it means you can maintain that performance for a lot longer. Yeah. One of the things I've been curious about is, will I be able to edit video and I guess that long export from the 13-inch MacBook Pro? How much of a benefit will that actually show? For me, I'll be, like you said, benchmarking it and

we'll see, but I'm very curious about that um I had another like small nuanced question just about the way they fit into the lineup because you're still selling the Intel MacBook Pros alongside the M1 MacBook Pro uh the M1 MacBook Pro has two Thunderbolt ports is it just like a direct parallel with the lower end version of the Intel MacBook Pro and if so will there ever be a uh a four port version of the Intel MacBook Pro? And if so, will there ever be a four port version of the MacBook Pro? I know a lot of people were hoping for one. Yeah, I mean, you've got it right in that the 13 inch MacBook Pro that we introduced with M1 is a direct replacement for the product that was in the line before. And that has been well loved and adopted by pros and consumers alike. And so we really wanted to make sure that we had that continuity and consistency.

That being said, we also understand that there are people who need more than that in terms of ports or expansion opportunities in terms of memory and other things. And that's why we have the Intel systems in the line still. And as we've mentioned before, this is a transition that's going to take a couple of years for us to make. And we have some amazing Intel systems in the portfolio and we'll do so for the course of this transition. And so we want to make sure that pros and consumers alike still have the choice and capability. And we think a two-port version with M1 is phenomenal. But there are people who will need four ports

and we've got options for that as well. Yeah, I know I'm kind of diving into the realm of future products. I know you guys never give specifics on that, but you can be as broad as you want with this. There will be future Macs with this Apple Silicon. I'm assuming there will be some sort of a different chip or different versions of the chip. What sorts of things could possibly change for when you design Apple Silicon for, I'm assuming, the Mac Pro, the iMac? That's a very different challenge as far as thermal room and active cooling and all sorts of stuff like that. How do you look at those different challenges?

Well, of course, you know, right now, today, the biggest challenge is just delivering our excitement about the systems that we have in front of us and getting those out in people's hands and seeing what kinds of things get unlocked. But of course, as we've said, the transition is going to take a couple of years, and that means that we will continue work in terms of innovating and bringing these technologies in a variety of different places and different applications. And I don't know, Tim, if you've got any kind of general way, I'll describe the architectural philosophy we have. You know, one of the things we want to make sure we do, and if you looked at the iOS example, we introduced phone chips. A few years later, we introduced the iPad chip. After that, we introduced iOS Silicon or Apple silicon in the watch.

What I push for my team is to make sure when we do that introduction into a new product, it looks familiar to our software teams and our software developers. So it's not a dramatic change in architecture. We build our GPUs, our CPUs, our hardware acceleration in scalable ways, knowing that we're going to move that technology down and up the line. So M1 really is a natural step for us. We took the scalable architecture that we had, took it one more notch up to fill these very high impact, exciting new products that we introduced yesterday. And you can imagine that that's the recipe book. That's the script we're gonna use as we transition the Mac forward, is to try to take some of the same great technologies

and scale them up so that it looks, feels, and delivers the same kind of high impact and benefit that M1 has delivered. All right, I have one final question, which is, because I know you guys see the whole behind the scenes process of, of what goes into making these chips and making these things come to life. I'll let you each highlight. What do you think is something that was underrated or maybe underappreciated through the keynote? You know, you got the message out. Obviously

there's a lot to cover, so there's only so much you can fit into this 55 minute, incredibly well-produced video. Maybe you have something that maybe flew under the radar or something I should keep an eye out for when I'm doing my testing, getting into these new machines. I'll start, and I think it's one of the things that you'll discover quickly and is also one of the things that I know a lot of your listeners are interested in, which is the technology that is built into Rosetta 2. And Tim and his team are directly responsible for this incredible innovation that allows apps written for Intel systems to run just smoothly, flawlessly on M1. And in some cases, especially where they're making use of metal, can actually see performance improvements.

And I know most people, when they're thinking about these transitions, they're like, OK, the hardware seems in theory great, but what's it going to do with my software? And this is the third or fourth of our major transitions. We've done this over our history. And Rosetta 2 is really a key anchor point there. And it's actually a phenomenal technology. It shares the name Rosetta with what we introduced in the PowerPC to Intel transition, but it's

built from the ground up. And I think it's an amazing story. All right. Software. What about you? I think that's a great one. And like Bob said, I think this was another great collaboration. I think we call it the same name, but if you look under the hood, it is a really dramatically

different and well-crafted piece of code that allows us to make this transition seamless. And it was done in concert. We started that about the same time we started thinking about this transition, just to make sure we had a great story. You know, I think maybe the one other thing I would bring up, just getting kind of more nerdy into the chip, is this whole story about unified memory. I really think it's going to be an eye-opening experience for developers who have, any developer who historically has struggled with the capacity for the kind of memory the GPU can get access to. And the amount of bandwidth that a multiprocessor task can get access to and the amount of bandwidth that a multi-processor task could get access to.

Because unified memory gives you the best of both worlds. It gives you wide, fast, high bandwidth for the GPU that's also now available to the CPU. And it gives us high capacity memory for the GPU that was previously only available for the CPU. And if you're a developer that's trying to build multi-engine workloads, now you can move this data back and forth. You don't have to copy it. You don't have to move it from the GPU frame buffer into the main memory system so the CPU can access it.

It's all sitting there. And this is going to help with performance. It's going to help with energy efficiency. And I really think that's another part of the story. We did highlight it, and I was actually pretty pleased with the way it's going to help with energy efficiency. And I really think that that's another part of the story that we did. We did highlight it and I was actually pretty pleased with the way it was presented, but it's something I'm super excited about because it's a piece of core technology that's just sort of essential to the mobile SOCs that we've been building. Gotcha. Yeah, I was going to say there's a ton of people working on this stuff and I'm sure you get

to see the final presentation and fingers crossed it comes across the way you hoped so it's good to hear I enjoyed the presentation and uh I appreciate the time for you guys breaking this down for me and I'm just looking forward to testing I think that's what it comes down to this is a an exciting time to be a tech nerd and uh I'm sure the stuff you guys are working on has a big part of what to do with that so thank you uh for the time and uh hopefully we'll chat again soon to do with that so thank you uh for the time and uh hopefully we'll chat again soon all right thank you yeah thank you enjoyed it so there you have it a lot of a lot of interesting talking points i think i i really obviously couldn't get super into hey tell me how many cores the the piece of apple silicon you're putting in the mac pro in two years

will have that's the kind of stuff they never talk about but it's always fun to hear a little bit of the behind the scenes when you're talking to people who've worked on this stuff, what they think about, what the priorities are. And yeah, my hype remains obviously as impressive as these new laptops and the Mac Mini look. My hype remains with like the two, three year down the line high end desktops when they just get to put a gigantic piece of silicon in some fans and just let it go to work with no efficiency concerns I am ready I am ready for that anyway I hope some of your questions were answered we got some clarification on the two port MacBook Pro there but we'll go ahead and take a quick break we'll come back we'll bring in Brandon we'll talk crazy graphics and

intros and apparently you've got a little conspiracy or something to read me, so we'll check that out in a second. Be right back. You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that thing you love, keep doing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite.

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You're going to react to an email we got with us just before we get into some of those cool intros we shot recently. This could go one of many ways. Emails, yeah. I do. I feel like one day when i forget to write the podcast i'm just going to read a bunch of really cruddy emails that we get this is not one of them but we're just gonna read some really bad emails one day to make up time

um okay so i got an email from somebody and i just thought it was kind of interested and i want to know if you guys have ever heard of this i I don't know if I'd call it a conspiracy. Okay. They just said, Apple is super conscious about the verbiage they use when describing portable computers. They never refer to computers as laptops. You'll almost always see the verbiage portable computers and most of the time notebooks. That reason being,

these computers are not meant to be used on one's lap. The vent is right before the display clamshell and when used for a prolonged time on the lap, it will overheat. So they never... Thoughts on that? I've never noticed it, personally. I cannot...

I call it a laptop all the time. Right. I can't confirm if I've ever... It's mad that you called it a laptop. Yeah, right? I can't confirm if I've ever or never heard Apple call the MacBooks laptops. I don't actually remember. Now that I'm thinking about it, I guess I can't think of a time that they called it a laptop.

But haven't they showed it like on a lap at least once somewhere in an ad or like in a promo video or something? We've seen so many. It's like I'm not totally sure. Then again, I never use my laptop on my lap, ever. You see, that's a contrast to me because that's my preferred method of using my laptop. Not on like a desk or table, you're on the lap usually? Usually I'm like either like in my bed

or I'm just like sitting down somewhere and I have it like propped up like at the back corner. You can see the vent. Yeah. Yeah. So they're, they're right that the vent is facing down. And if you put it on your lap, you're going to be blocking a lot of that vent. But is it so bad that they never, ever want to tell you to put it on your lap or it will definitely overheat? I don't know if it's that serious. ever want to tell you to put it on your lap or it will definitely overheat? I don't know if it's that serious. I feel like you can probably use it on your lap and be fine.

I mean, I've definitely used MacBooks in the past on my lap. They have gotten very hot. I've used all kinds of laptops. But every laptop has gotten very hot on my lap. Probably also because I'm using it on the couch with a blanket and it's definitely getting zero airflow. But yeah, that's what it's that's what it's for yeah it also depends on what you're doing i mean if you're editing videos then

yes it's going to give you fourth degree burns but if you're just you know sending an email or like you know watching a video it's probably not going to get that hot right yeah i don't think i don't think it's a problem it's kind of i interesting. I just think it's a, think about it. And now watch Apple stuff in the future and see what we. It's definitely going to be in the back of my mind when I watch things now. Yeah. That's facts. Yeah, I'm overthinking this for sure.

It's going to be in the back. All right. All right, I'll start watching a little more carefully. Do I see it ever in someone's lap? I'll figure that one out. Thank you, anonymous email. Thank you for an email that I enjoyed reading and didn't just instantly delete. It's rare.

Appreciate it. It's rare. Okay, past that. We specifically brought Brandon in here. And also, we brought Brandon in because we've shot some really fun intros lately that have gotten, a lot of people seem to really like them on Twitter. And we would have Vin here also.

His car is in the shop right now. So he's just not here. He's helped on a lot of these. That's just for everyone wondering where Vin is. But Brandon, you're in here today. We've made some pretty crazy. You've basically made some pretty crazy intros. I think the last couple weeks we've come in wanting to shoot something.

And you're like, I have an idea for an intro. Yeah. And then it just kind of goes from there. And if we have any hair left after the end of shooting it, that'll be a surprise. But I think mostly we've just had a lot of time because you've been shooting Retro Tech and you had like a meeting one day. So you were gone for like five hours and we just buckled down and the three of us just shot something forever but um you've had some crazy ideas we've been putting them to good use i think they've made the videos fun but i thought well let's just go through them and kind of walk through

what they look like how they were shot and if there were any interesting things we did to to accomplish it that sound cool yeah let's go through them one by one yeah so where do you want to start iphone 12 uh iphone 12 pro i think was the first one right the like water i think that one has kind of the most hype so that's a fun one to start with all right so explain this iphone 12 pro how did it end up in the water what is going on yeah so it's it started at a very different place than where it ended. And I feel like that's, yeah, that's kind of a reoccurring theme with these intros.

But most of the time they sort of end up in a better place. You know, I'm knocking on wood metaphorically. But with that intro specifically, the idea was like gold and blue, two very wonderful colors together. I was thinking, you know, what's, what's gold? Like, what can I include? That's gold. I was sort of thinking about like, what if we shoot some water into some glitter and some water and some lights and we'll sort of make it, you know, look magical. And, um, I think I was in the shower and I like hopped out of the shower and I texted the group chat and I was like, okay, I have this idea.

Do we have a bucket for water? Yeah. I feel like everyone just decided that I was insane at that point. But the next week we came in and we sort of had a running start. In the morning, I think we spent like, what, three hours shooting? Long, way longer than that. Marques, you went somewhere in the city that was supposed to start at 10 and you were supposed to be, it was supposed to be a three-hour shoot, right? I didn't get back till like dark.

Five, I think. Yeah, it was crazy. We got into the studio at regular time. So that means with the lunch break, we were shooting from 10 till five, probably. That was literally a full work day to shoot that. It was a fun one though. I mean, it was a lot of trial and error at start

because obviously when you're transporting a massive bucket of water across a big studio. Yeah, do you wanna quickly try and visualize it to the people listening just in case they haven't seen it? I hope all of you saw it and I will definitely put it in the show notes cause you all should watch this, but, um, yeah, just for people who haven't seen it. I mean, basically it's, it's kind of like a, I don't like a flowy kind of like start. Um, but a lot of, uh, a lot of glimmer to like the sides because the rails are shiny. So I wanted to get that light across the sides. And at the beginning, it's just a lot of really

tight macros, getting the architecture of the cameras as well as the side rail. And then sort of the hero shot is the phone floating above a surface of water that's glimmering gold while the phone is of course blue. And that was sort of like the money shot. And that was surprisingly the easiest shot to get. The rest of, were sort of, you know, trying to find its way into like, I feel like I start with like two images in my head that I sort of want to capture and I draw them down. Um, and then the rest of the time I just sort of figure out what I want to shoot to piece together, uh, in my head, some sort of like an intro progression. But that was pretty much the whole entire build. And then we got into the editing bay and it sort of fit together. We put in some lens flares, we changed some colors. And what originally was just a very like monotone, strictly blue and gold,

then turned into sort of like this pastel sunset kind of array of colors. So like in that respect, I feel like it really found itself in the actual shooting process. When I get a new product, which happens a lot this time of year, I get into my testing, I get into using the device and I'm reviewing it as I go. I'm like taking notes on it. I'm like figuring it out. Oh, this has this quirk here. Let me just write that down. Oh, you know, it has this like this thing I just realized it as I go. I'm like taking notes on it. I'm like figuring it out. Oh, this has this quirk here.

Let me just write that down. Oh, you know, it has this thing I just realized it does when you put it down on a table. Let me write that down. And after a while, I eventually go, you know what? I have enough here. I'm ready to review it, and I'll put everything together. And the last stuff I'm trying to come up with

is like the title, the thumbnail, and like what really ties the thread of the whole review together. I feel like when you see a gadget, you have like an eye for like what visually stands out about like the visual design of the gadget. And I think it sort of translates into like what makes an intro or a graphic or a couple of shots really good. So with like the iPhone, like you said, the super shiny rails, like you got to get a shot of like showing those rails or you're kind of missing out on a big part of the iPhone. So you got to show that stuff. How do you think about like when you, you write these things down and you're drawing shots down, how do you think about

like, what do you want to capture? What do you want to make sure you get? Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's exactly it is like, I always want to have hands on time with the product beforehand, beforehand, beforehand, on hands, with hands. But specifically with that phone, I mean, you know, even not to jump, but like with PS5, it's like a lot of these products have really remarkable designs. a lot of these products have really remarkable designs and like the little things that you don't necessarily see with your eye that we can really hone in on with like a macro lens. I want to bring attention to that. Um, but, uh, specifically with iPhone 12, I think the two bigger changes, uh, with this phone specifically in terms of aesthetic, course the more uh straight you know blockish design the flatness yeah yeah and uh you know the shimmer and the sheen and um of course the camera being a little bit different with that lidar sensor and the color so you know those are the three things i really wanted to uh focus on with this specifically but that's just kind of a

reoccurring theme figuring out what's new and figuring out what looks good with that yeah i think uh you were mentioning how a macro lens can see things better than like kind of the average person seeing and how we use that a lot that also wound up being one of the hardest things shooting that um there's probably i'm sure there's a ton of people that think the water's cg in, but no, it was like a tub full of water. Oh, let me just start by saying most of what we do is practical effects. Oh, yeah. Like when I watch those Apple keynotes, in my brain I'm like, that was CG, that was CG, that was adjusted, that was CG.

Ooh, that might have been practical. What we do here is, well, we're not CG artists, so we do have some motion graphics or text and overlapping things that we can do, but it is very heavy on practical effects yeah how nervous were you not being in the studio knowing we were walking around with a giant tub of water next to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of electronics i wasn't too worried i kind of trusted i trust the process i really appreciate that i was i was losing it there was one point where like a quasar tube tipped over when i wasn't looking and i my heart jumped do you know when you like

almost get in a car accident and your like whole body's tensed up for like five minutes that's how i felt because i was just waiting to hear the rushing water everywhere um but going back to the macro lens one of the hardest things about shooting that was every time we would get a shot set up it would look perfect on camera vin would have whatever he was using to make the ripple effects we'd press record and like this big chunk of hair would float by in the water like next to the iphone or like a piece of dust is a macro's worst enemy. It is impossible to get a clean-looking phone on a macro lens because dust you'll never see is always, always there. You know what?

That's why Apple does so much CG is because it's absolutely perfect. They made the phones. They have the models of the phones. They have high-resolution imagery of the phones. They can just make whatever they want with the CG, and we'll never be able to achieve that practically, but yeah, they don't have to deal with dust floating through the air and stuff like that.

Okay, so next scene, let's go to the iPhone 12 mini, which was like a rotating shot. Painting a picture here, it looked like a, kind of like a floating platform. You see the iPhone 12 Pro Max. It turns around and reveals the mini while the Max is disappearing. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. It was a fun one. It was very fun. I imagine the idea for that came from, this phone is small. Let's show how small it is. Exactly.

It was a fun way to show the difference in the two most different sizes. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's so easy to just put those two on a table and say, cool. But this was the seven-hour way of explaining. I don't think this one took as long.

So fundamentally, how does that disappearing phone happen? So in terms of gear, in terms of... So we had to shoot the same scene more than once, obviously. Right. And we had to do some post-production work. Yeah, yeah. You're imagining that all as you're shooting, right? Yeah.

So basically, with developing all of these intros, I feel like as much as I love to sort of visualize what could look cool, I also have to think about how it's practical and if it's practical. So I feel like along with like, you know, oh, this would look cool. How would we figure this out? And like one of my favorite tools to use is this specific head on an electric slider that just simply rotates and tilts. And I use that in a lot of intros. But specifically with this, I was thinking about, you know, some sort of a platform that we can put these phones on, take advantage of the flat edges, doesn't need anything to prop them up. Love that. Yeah, no, it's the best thing ever. But with this, we did it in two takes.

It was two different takes. We had the robot coming in on a track forward, and we had simply this disembodied table that we took the legs off of on the rotating portion of the slider. So we had a full turn on the slider. We had the full track in. We did that twice,

one with just the mini, and one with both the mini and the max. And then you can probably guess we just faded out the one with the max as the move went on. And yeah, the one complicated part, which is it's always the things you don't expect. But specifically with this, towards the end of the shot, because the mini is so reflective, we got the camera lens of the camera on the robot coming in, reflecting on the phone. So I had to sort of mask that out and build like a fake iPhone for the back as the move finished. But yeah, that was a fairly straightforward shot. It was pretty simple.

Yeah, I think our biggest issues were, first of all, we used one of the dbrand sheets, but you could see the corners of it, which wound up looking really bad. We had this end table that we wound up using that at first we didn't like because it had a lip and then it wouldn't look like a flat surface. But when we used it it almost had this fun like floating ufo like look to it and felt like like on a pedestal kind of um and we thought it looked really cool so it wound up

working well and then our other issue was like you said the reflection just a tip for anyone out there who's trying to shoot really reflective stuff the way we kind of combat it is we have this like black piece of foam core that we cut a hole out to put the lens in so then black covers up the camera and the tripod and everything to prevent all those different colors like our camera has a big red button on the front of it just the like red badge and the sackler logo and stuff like that so yeah to cover all that up sometimes we'll put a polarizer on to make the lens a little darker. This one, unfortunately, was so reflective that even with cutting out that huge thing, by the way, the robot looks ridiculous when it has that giant like piece of foam core on the front. But so Brandon had to go into post.

I think that's another thing that some people don't understand with how hard these shots are is Me as someone who doesn't do that much editing and post editing i'm sitting here with brandon doing these things and he's like i'm like Was that okay like that? You can see that he's like, oh, yeah, i'll just fix that later i'm, like, oh, okay trust you and then every time he blows me away and it comes out like perfect, but There's a lot of trust going on in there. He knows what he can and can't do and it comes out like perfect but there's a lot of trust going on in there he knows what he can and can't do and it's worked every time it's it's really fun to watch one of my one of my favorite things that i've seen sort of just a couple times on youtube is people trying to

recreate some of the shots that have appeared in our videos some of them are those intros some of them are the robot shots some of them are the craziest shots we've done. And yeah, it's really fun, like the imagination going into some people. If you can look these up on YouTube, there's a couple of really good ones where they'll watch the video and then they'll recreate the set the way they think it was done.

And a lot of them get really close and they sort of piece together the pieces one by one, how you can do it in post, how you can do it practically. And you see the final result, what they can practically. And, you know, you see the final result, what they can make. And then you see the final result of what we've tried to do. And all the little things that you have to do in post that you might never think about become very apparent when you look the different side by side. Um, so that's a testament to how much work goes

into them. It's one of those things where people recreate it and get the like idea down and you're like oh like they did a pretty good job they did they got really close for having nowhere near the type of setup that we have but then it just shows that the setup we have lets you get it perfectly so nobody's thinking about like that little mistake that wobble that reflection that this that that like everything we have lets us just let it be an intro and not get distracted from anything else. Um, but yeah, we feel like we should make a thread of people who have tried to, to replicate things. Cause it's really fun to watch. I might, I might tweet some of those out. Those are, they're pretty fun for me to watch. They definitely are.

All right. Last one. Last one. HomePod mini. We just, we just shot this today. So this is fresh. Yeah. How did the, uh, how did the HomePod mini. We just shot this today, so this is fresh. Yeah. How did the HomePod Mini intro idea come to your mind? Yeah. So I think with this one specifically, I really came in this morning with no idea what the hell we were doing. Perfect. And I think like a conscious effort on my part is making sure that like the intros that we do, some of them can be very cinematic. Some of them can like look like a commercial in a sense. But other ones I still feel really have to have personality to them to be able to still remain, you know, friendly YouTube content and not an ad.

you know, friendly YouTube content and not an ad. And with this specifically, like one of the funny things that's happened in the past couple of weeks is one day I was in and we were playing with a HomePod mini and Marques was like, take your phone, see if it works. And we were just tapping the phone relentlessly trying to make it work and it wouldn't. And I just found that really funny. And I was like, well, why don't we just try and do that for the intro that's a feature of the

homepod mini um and then of course we brought the robot into it and it became infinitely more complicated um but yeah it was it was a two stage shot i don't think we've ever done like a two separate move shot before especially uh especially like with the same flow of movement i guess does that make sense like we created a shot and then had to completely pause while we loaded up the next shot or robot movement loaded up the next movement and went through with it i think that's the first time we've ever done that but yeah no it was i mean it. I think that's the first time we've ever done that. But yeah, no, it was, I mean, it was pretty straightforward except for the whole entire like snapping and morphing thing, which was just a lot of trial and error of making sure

that all of the elements aligned, things were in place, there was no dust on the table, nothing moved. And then of course the technology had to work, which was another portion of it. But yeah, this one was pretty fun. And, you know, again, in the editing bay, it was also pretty straightforward. We've had a lot of intros before that either it's like the edit portion or just the shooting portion that has been a simple idea in theory, but has turned out to just be so much more complicated than we

originally planned it to be. Yeah. I feel like that happens a lot. We have our, we have our robot idea. We'll go into that room. We'll start to set everything up. We'll start to build it and we'll start to shoot it. And then slowly it will sort of like reassemble itself into a new idea. And we'll go, yeah, this is the one we actually want to do. That's a little more possible. Honestly, sometimes we spend so much time in the robot room waiting for us to come out and the police to be like, you guys have been missing for a week.

Where have you been? We're in there a long time. This was probably one of our more efficient shoots today. It was a little simpler, but it still, it could not have been done without the robot. I don't think so because of the axes of movement and the precision it needed in order to swap a product out. But yeah, I think it looked really cool.

It's a fun intro. Yeah, yeah. I'm excited for you guys. If you haven't seen all of them, well, you're in for a treat. Go ahead and watch the last few videos on the channel and note some of these intros. Also, big shout out to Michael

who put together the iPhone 12 Pro Max intro, which was entirely built from scratch and a sort of a photorealistic version of a meme, which is just dragging the corner of the device to make it bigger. For sure, a lot of effort goes into the motion graphics. Check that one out too. And then hopefully by the time this goes live,

the PlayStation 5 review is live. and that is your latest epic cinematic intro with the most hyped console of the year so it all sorts sort of ties together when you watch that too uh but yeah i think that's about it we can probably cut thanks for joining us and uh thanks for listening we'll have a lot more coming up obviously there's a bunch more tech coming out this year but it's that end of the year period where we get to talk about all the best stuff of the year. So tune back in next time. Thanks for listening.

Waveformer is brought to you in part with Studio 71 and our intro outro music was created by Cameron Barlow.