Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Can the iPhone 17 Pro Beat a Leica?

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

David is back! And after putting the iPhone 17 Pro camera to the test he thought of a fun camera comparison game for us to play (link below if you want to play along). Before that, Marques gives his first impressions using the Meta Display glasses. We also talk about a bunch of new speakers and other hardware from Amazon and Google. We wrap it up with the interview between Marques, James Cameron, and Boz. It's a chaotic episode so we hope you enjoy! Links: Casey Neistat smart glasses video Verge - Amazon event recap New Google Home devices David's slideshow - play along! David's RAW pictures Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch! Social: Waveform Threads Waveform Instagram ⁠Waveform TikTok⁠ Hosts: Marques Andrew David Adam Ellis Join the Discord Music by 20syl Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome back to another episode of the Wayform podcast. We're your host. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. We're all back, and we, of course, have entered Techtober, which means there's still plenty to talk about. There was, what, an Amazon event this week, so there might be some cool stuff there.

There was a Google, not an event, but an announcement as well. And that might also be interesting. David also wants to play a game, I've been told. So we'll get to that. Let's play it. And we'll wrap up with some snippets of, remember that James Cameron? stuff that we were going to have last week but then we ended up arguing about horses and F1 cars totally worth it wait but to start off the podcast I didn't watch last week's

episode but I just heard I just saw stuff in in the slack about horses we are getting dangerously close to just going right back down that rabbit so I'll just say we'll watch it later and then you can weigh it okay because it's two sides of this debate is it like you need a tiebreaker opinion it's just fun to imagine stuff you know but We will play those James Cameron interview clips for you this week because they're actually kind of interesting. But first, Andrew, show and tell time. Oh, okay.

What do you have to show us today? Do you know how normally we put like the really important stuff of the week in the middle of the episode? Sure. It helps our retention rate, keeps people along. Well, what I've got can't wait. Wow. This is the pinnacle of the episode.

It could be the pinnacle of 2025. This is definitely Andrew's crown. But I have with me. Oh. The Microsoft XP Crocs. They are in, and they are glorious. I do like the gibbets. I'm going to give you...

Is it giblets or giblets? Do you want to hold this, Marquez? I just want you to describe it a little bit. I don't. I don't want to. They are the greatest... They are every ounce of perfect that I thought they could be. They come in a nice little bag.

That's the Windows XP Hillside Cloud background. They themselves have it on the top with, like, green. on the bottom and the gibbets are recycling a cursor the MSN butterfly what a folder files yeah internet explorer and clippy there are no words to explain my hatred of this product that is so I have a question okay so the inside of the crock correct has all of these like divvits but they're negative divvits what do they call that is it is it no No, but they're opposite. Oh, posits.

But divots go in. Are they in braved or embossed? In sets. Wouldn't that be debossed? They're bumps. It's braille. It's braille. Yeah, okay, so the crocs have a ton of braille inside.

Texture, yeah. Doesn't that hurt your feet? No. They wear out. It's for grip. Haven't you ever worn those like Adidas slides that everyone was obsessed with for a while? You know what I'm talking about.

Oh, yeah. It was also entirely. The whole bottom were just like these little, yeah, that's hurt my feet a lot. I didn't love them. These wear out. pretty quickly. I actually think they're more comfortable once these wear out. It's just a little texture shoot so your foot doesn't slam around as much. I don't want texture on my foot. That implies you're

wearing these so often. Wear your kicks, bro. The irony of me wearing the shoes right now that are like wear your kicks. Oh, you are wearing them. Yeah. This is a men's 10, but it looks like a I shouldn't say it's pretty big. It looks like a 14. They're pretty big. They're fantastic. They're fantastic. I think the funniest story about this is like Marquez wasn't here in the episode when we talked about these getting launched. And so like a week ago, he forwards me a screenshot of this email from Microsoft saying, hey, Marquez, would love to send you a pair of these. Let me know your shoe size. And Marquez screenshots it, puts it in Slack and says, Andrew, I just want you to know I said no to this. And I replied, I ordered those a month ago. Don't worry. So shout out

to Corey he works at Microsoft and he got me hooked up with these I had to go through him like 10 people from Microsoft reached out and was like all over them for you. This is, okay, here's my question. Because you seem to like crocs and no matter how ugly they make them you seem to like them more and more. Is there

something they could put on crocs that would make you not? There's a lot of Windows Vista on the crocs would you still like to wear them? Vista? Like Vista theme? No, it's Vista. So there's a line somewhere. There's a line. There's lots of croc lines. They've hit them. Have you You've seen the high heels?

Yeah, they're rough. No, there's plenty of bad crocs. I like just the OG clog. This one's a little fun. There's a KFC fried chicken one. I don't know if I've ever actually seen you wear them, though. Crocs? Yeah.

That's because Marquez bullies me whenever I wear them. I ban them from the past. We've had days where Marquez is out and the five of us in the office go like Crox Day question mark and we all wear them in. I have to, I want to ban. Crocks without banning Crocs. I'll ban like open-toed clothes-toed shoes. These are not...

Think of like... Chefs are one of like the strictest types of shoes you can wear in a kitchen and crocs. Yeah, because you don't want anything dropping on your foot and they need to be non-slip. Because kitchen's a chef? What? You want to know what a chef is? No, like the... Is that a type of shoe?

No, no, no, no. It's a person. It's a... It's a career. I'm saying it was a type of... Sorry. Chef footwear. Lots of chefs wear crows.

The fact we were Googling that already. I was like, did he miss her me? And then he typed in C-H-E-F, and I was like, I'm so confused. Okay. Sorry. We can end it there, if you would like. Yeah. No.

Chef's shoes. These are work shoes. I guess. They put in work. I guess. Yeah. But second. I don't like the divvets.

The most interesting and important news of the week. is that it has been announced that Bad Bunny will be playing the last Philadelphia Eagles game of the NFL season. I see. Was the joke there that the birds are making

the Super Bowl? Yes. Do you need to hear the sound again? I didn't, I could barely hear it. Sorry, I think the mics are screwed up. What are they saying? They're saying singles. Are we still a tech podcast? We're just talking about Windows XP.

Technically, it was Windows XP. I don't know if this can be tied in somehow to tech as well, but that did get announced. Something, something, go-birds. Yeah, exactly. Go-birds. Speaking of things that... Oh, wow, that was crazy. That was the quadruple go-birds on the Waveform podcast.

They're all converted. I think Sequin Barkley pops up if you say it that many times. Speaking, let's see, speaking of things that can fly because they're so light-way. Wait, birds, birds fly into windows all the time, which we were just talking about. And windows are clear, kind of like, what I'm wearing on my face right now. We got there. So, okay, so video viewers have already noticed that... I got birds, boy.

Nice find. That's an elite find. Okay, so video users have noticed that I'm wearing a certain pair of glasses. Maybe you've clocked them even already as the exact pair of glasses that I'm wearing, which is the meta rayband displays. So not just the meta raybans with the cameras and stuff, but I could be scrolling Instagram right now. As a matter of fact, I have been this entire.

No way. No, I'm just kidding. No, but you, okay, so basically I've got the neural band on as well. I only set this up like 10 minutes ago, so I don't even have Instagram and WhatsApp plugged in, but I can pull up the UI right now and it's up, and I can start scrolling around, And this brings us right back to where I ended the video that I made about them, which is, is the future of computing going to end up in a place where I could be looking at my UI in front of my face?

And it's glasses, so it's on my face. So it kind of looks like I'm looking at you, but I'm straight up not looking at you right now. I'm reading something. If I try really hard, I can see like a, no, now I can't. It's really hard to see. There was like a glimpse, the picture. When I take a picture, it's really obvious because it lights up the little camera lens.

But yeah, it is. It's almost impossible to see you're looking at something. I feel like for a second, I thought I could see. There's a line like here, but I think that's the wave guide. Then I thought I saw like the top of the box first. I will say I went fully around him 360 degrees while he was doing something and I could not see anything, even from behind him. We've got a bright point light source right here.

No, I was out in the... No, I know, I'm saying, because we have this, I can see it a little bit at certain angles. Is something up right now? Yep. I'm trying to see if I can see the reflection in your eye. Oh, yeah. What is he looking at?

I don't know. I mean, I'm looking at Al-Mart right now because I paused my music, which is on Spotify. It is really bright and very viewable to me, obviously. Isn't it like 3,000? 5,000 nits? I don't know exactly how they measure that. It's a projector.

It's a wave guide. It's a whole system. It goes away automatically, so I'll bring it back. And I can read it pretty easily and just go glance back and forth between the person I'm talking to and the little art. And I can even put a little backdrop on it with my hand. But yeah, I am clearly in the Metaverse now. Why did they make him glossy? Good question.

I think Matt would have looked better, one, and it still would have worked with the sliding touchbar on the side, which is like a secondary input method. I don't know why they're glossy. Maybe that's just the first version. Ray bands are always glossy. Is that true? I like them at once in a way. I mean, not always. They have like a million different styles at this world.

But like the classic. The Blues Brothers Raybans. Yeah. Maybe they're just trying to be the classic. That's why gamers say GG. Glossy glasses. That's what I've been saying. So yeah, these are $800.

They come with the neuroband, which I'm wearing, which I also set up. They set up in maybe 10 minutes and got a quick software update. So it was actually pretty easy. And yeah, I just want to echo. that this is a real thing that's going to start happening out in the world. Casey and I saw just made a really good video, by the way, about these, which was kind of comparing the future of mobile computing from two of the biggest companies working on stuff like this, which was Apple, Vision Pro, and Meta Raybound display,

two very different products, but two very futuristic things. So go watch that. We'll link it below. Can I try? Can we try? Yeah, you can, actually. Let's get first impressions. Yeah, I'm interested on if we also have already confirmed that I can ask meta to do things from our guess.

It worked at least once, but try that. You should be able to see the album art. So this isn't like the Vision Pro where only one person can wear them out of time, basically. Well, I have the control mechanism on my wrist right now, so I don't know how much he can do. Do you see it? Can you give him the neural band? I can see it. I feel like that's not that easy.

Can you hand him the neural band or is it hard to take off? Probably could, but it is hard to take off. I'm right to set it up. It's hard to take off. Well, there's a whole like clasp thing. I thought it was like a snap bracelet. But you do, if I hit, do you still see the album art? It's weird because when both eyes are open, the left side of it seems like it's fading a little bit.

Am I like cross-eyed? Sorry, Andrew. I need glasses for this. If I lose my left eye, it's like perfect. You are making some really funny faces right now. I feel like everyone's been commenting that I make some really dumb faces on the podcast already because I look up a lot when I'm thinking, but I'm probably making even dumb. It's gone.

It's gone. Is it back? Oh, there it is. Yeah, I brought it back. I got the control. Is that all there? Andrew, how does it compare to the demo glasses we tried? It's vastly different.

The field of view is, well, because the field of view is totally different. But remember the demo glasses were in our whole field of view is a lot. This is definitely here. Down into the right. Like down into the right a bit. It is very bright, and I almost feel like the resolution is better than the demo glass. What do you see? What do you see now?

The resolution is better than the Orion glass. It's better, and I think the biggest thing is the Orion glasses had like a tint to them because it very clearly wasn't a... This is clear. You're just in the menu, right? Yeah, just a menu. They're thick. They're really thick. Yeah, so if you saw someone out watching these, I think this is like a double-take pair of glasses. I think there's like a line, like regular glasses out in public, I don't really think twice.

I don't double-take at all. Super, super obvious camera and computer on face glasses, I don't even double-take. I just look and I know exactly what it is. This is somewhere in between. I think there are some places where I would not think twice. There are some places where I would go, oh, it was kind of thick or weird. And it just depends on the person,

what they're wearing, where they are. I would think that someone wearing this has like a visual problem. You think they're like super thick glasses? Yeah, they are very thick. Like bifocals or something. It's funny, but it doesn't do the bifocal effect where your eyes inside the glasses

look larger because of magnification. Yeah, no, they don't do that. Can you open the main menu? I will... Where are you now? On the Spotify thing. Oh, it's funny. At this angle, I can see, like, red, green, blue,

which is probably, like, the wave guide. Okay, wait. It's like a prison. To the right. Okay, down one. Don't press play. Select. And down.

Oh, yeah. Oh. You have to download English. Oh, it's going to be live translation. Yeah, I just set these up, so I don't have my WhatsApp connect. did, I don't have the downloaded languages for the live captioning, but I'm going to try all this stuff. From an angle, you can start seeing some parts of the wave guide.

Like, I can see a box in his eye now. Right. Yeah. What was I going to say? I think it's interesting because does meta want these two blend in perfectly, or do they want people to know people are using their product? It's definitely a fine line there of, we want these to just feel like glasses. Yeah.

But also, like, when you make a product, do you want a product to be known when it's seen out in public? Yeah, I mean, I think this first default version, which is glossy, black, just says raybans, tries to look like normal glasses. I think they want them to look like normal glasses. I think there will be more fashionable versions in the future that make a statement and also say, hey, I'm using the smart glasses. But I think to me, this is trying to look like normal glasses. Yeah. But really thick.

Yeah, surprisingly sharp. Yeah. And this is the carrying case, by the way. In case you didn't see the video. This is so, I mean, that's probably the best part about them. That's cool. That was sick. Yeah, for audio listeners.

It's like totally flat and it like pops up to charge again. But when you have them out of the case, it can fold almost entirely flat. Yeah. So these are the $800 ones. These are the $800 meta rayband display. Yeah. That's the diagnostic port that pops off. And you can plug it in.

We didn't have to do that while we shot, but that's what that is. All right, pop off. Yeah, pop off. King. This is that. It is, I don't know, should I? review them? Should I do more like IRL? I don't know what to do

with them, to be honest. You got to review them. I don't, yeah. It's hard. Yeah, well, so. Yeah, a review is tough unless you're in that ecosystem of what's happened. Like, I don't see those being useful for a full day of what they want unless you're in what's happened. Just become European. It'll be fun.

Well, it's more just that I don't know what else to say about them other than what I already said. Like, how long does the battery life last? Maybe that's interesting. Life translation. What types of reactions do people have when you reveal that you are not looking at them anymore, that type of stuff, maybe. I think I'm trying to think about, like, where would this fit into someone's actual life, and is this something that regular people would yet buy?

Yeah. Or are we still, like, a little bit further away from the one that people could just feasibly buy, and it would be nice. Yeah. How well does a live translation work? Do I want to use it all the time? Right. Yeah, things like that.

Are they gimmicks, or are they things that you actually end up wanting to use? Are they dope or nope? that wasn't that a chat GPT generated no that's Juddner's right that's his series what's ours called are they crown or crown or clown are they crown or clown? Which by the way

it's October 1st oh might be time for another one of those either way it did come out you know it is definitely a crown what MX master four came out and it's pretty great and the fun fact is we've been testing them for like a month now because Logitec came out of the studio with very, very early versions,

and they showed them to us. Oh, you brought yours. I brought it in. Is it disconnected? Yeah. It's disconnected. You can do it. It is similar shape, but just better materials.

And then it also has a haptic motor, I guess is what you call it. For an action ring. Yeah. For a certain side button that you press. And it's nice. Yeah, I mean, I think the new materials, I actually don't really use ergonomic mice, but I've been using this one a lot. The new materials won't get that, like, rubber peeling that the old.

Oh, that's good. MX Masters did. Like, I'm about to hand it to you. We all have one already. The material seem way better. It's a little more ergonomic with the horizontal wheel. There's an extra gesture button next to the front and back button, which is awesome because if you press it and swipe left or right, you can go between spaces on your Mac.

Or if you press it in, it does the mission control. And then, yeah, so where your thumb rests, there's this, like, pad that has a haptic feedback button that's crazy customizable where you can do like how sensitive is and how much the feedback is when you press it and it brings up this action ring kind of like the grand theft auto weapon select where when you press it basically actually yeah it like as a dial and like based on if you pull up left right you can go to each of those um different actions actions yeah they're all pre they're all programmable so customizable you can set up like six or seven of them to be whatever you want yeah i think eric set one up to open like chat gptu

or something. I have mine. I just do it. It opens up the like where we do new outlines for the podcast. So just if I'm going to write a new episode, I can just press that button, drag down and click it. And it's also in some of their programs,

mostly Adobe ones now, but you can do like Photoshop tools on the action ring and stuff. Yeah. Some of it doesn't work great. Some of it works really well. Some of it. One issue I have is like in Photoshop, if you want to just change opacity,

what's cool is you can open the action ring, hover it, to go up and down just within the little action wheel but in the history almost like when you scroll up a couple like 20% it does like 20 actions in the history which just fills up your history totally

that's a big issue I have with it right now in that but the customizable stuff will happen we'll see how open they make it to other programs and such I mean between this and Raycasts I'm living in heaven right now Adam's just one thing that doesn't do everything everything interesting combo because raycast is all about that keyboard yeah but if i said so what i did was i have a shortcut on raycast where i hit option n and it creates a new folder structure with a script that i have for like the podcast so instead of even doing that i also have that option

and as a keyboard shortcut on the wheel what is it that action ring so i could just like hit it it automatically does that keyboard shortcut which hits option and i could also just select the script and run it that way if I wanted to, so it goes either way, but yeah, it's good to have options. Exactly. Do you know what the best part about this mouse is? The dongle is USBC? Oh, that's actually the best part. It's so good. It's VA the entire

time. These mice have, uh, they use Bluetooth, but they have a 2.4 gigahertz dongle. I think it's 2.5. I forget everyone uses Bluetooth. Yeah. Maybe I'm way more excited about this. I use my dongles for all my mice. The dongle is nice because it stops interference and it makes it so the computer

knows exactly what it's talking to, but yeah, They switched to USBC, which is nice. However, I would advise, similarly to the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, when people were putting the S-Pen in backwards and it was breaking it. I put my dongle in the mouse, and it was really hard to get out. Where do you put it in the mouse? In the chargeboard. Oh, don't do that.

Oh, what? I thought I was like, it's good storage. And then it was really hard to do that out. But now that I know. It's hard to get out. Why can't you do that, though? That seems like it should work. I mean, it works.

Is it just because it's like there's like hard to... It's like infinite power. Yeah, it's like, okay, the dongle is connected to the mouse. You know, you say that. I'm sure people will buy this mouse. Zero leg. And be like, my dongle's not working. And it's plugged into the front of that.

I'm just saying like, you can store the dongle in the chart court. But there's no like rib. There's no lip. There's no lip. Yeah. And it's very hard to get out unless you have like really big nails and then you're going to crack your nails and never would have thought of that. Well, I did and it was unfortunate. That's a good PSA.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I'm glad you thought of that. Infinite power. Okay. Okay. You know what else has infinite power?

What else does? Echo show. How was that? Okay. We had an Amazon event yesterday as of the time of recording. There was a lot of stuff. This started in like 2017 or so. Amazon would have these events and they would just drop like 50 products.

Here is a bunch of new stuff and all of it has our system built in. Yeah, the most iconic one was like the first one they ever did where they put Alexa in like a clock and a microwave that was during the Internet of Things era. I'm really glad that's over. Is it? Well, sort of. Now they had another event where they also were putting Alexa Plus in a lot of products. But they were also just updating their whole lineup of smart speakers.

and other things like that. So we got a new Echo Show 8 and 11. The 11 inch is very large. But effectively, this kind of looks a lot like what we expected the Apple Homepad to look like, where it kind of looks like a home pod in the back with this fiber mesh. And then you have a tablet just kind of like mounted to the front.

And it's a much better display. The 8 inch one is 720p, which is a little low resolution, but it's a small tablet. Crash. I guess it's okay. The 11 is 10.8. true. 1080s.

Nice. Yeah. It has a 13 megapixel wide angle camera for video calls and things like that. They are a little bit expensive, but I assume that these things are going to go on sale literally constantly for Prime Day because usually Prime Day is just by our products day. So yeah, it's 17999 for the 8 inch and 21999 for the 11 inch. We also got an echo dot max, which is kind of ironic because the entire point of the echo dot was to be an echo but small, and now there's a big one.

So it's... Does this not look like... Yeah, 12 mini... Because it's like a sphere with a flat part with all the controls. Does it not look like that's where they just attached to the... So that's what I actually wrote in the script. Yeah, basically the show without the screen. It is a much more powerful speaker.

Amazon is claiming 3X the base response over the original echo dot. It has speaker controls with an LED ring in the front. It's $100 up from $50 from the original. original echo dot so though the price but it should have much better sound quality there's a new echo studio and i'm going to be honest i did not remember that the original echo studio was the thing can i just say my favorite part about this photo of the echo dot max is there's nothing scale wise here i cannot figure out how big this is that's true that could be a microscope it's literally just like a wood surface and a white wall behind it and not a single other object for me to tell how big that is

Yeah, Amazon is very much trying to get back in your house. They were, like, really winning the smart speaker race for a very long time, and then Google started just flooding the zone, and it's everywhere now. Yes, now they have an Echo Studio new one, because there was an old one, apparently, that I just didn't really even clock. It kind of looks a lot like the Echo. It looks a lot like the Echo.coms, but it's black, which means it's pro. Hell yeah.

The old one actually kind of looked like the trashcan Mac Pro. I looked it up, and it's. It's very weird. It's kind of got like cylindrical shape with like a little cutout in the side. Yeah, strange. It supports Dolby Atmos and spatial audio so you can link up to five of them

as well as linking them with the echo dot max and you can link them to a fire TV stick to have surround sound audio. I'm looking for the person out there that's like I love ecosystems but you know what ecosystem I love the most Amazon. Time to connect my Echo Dot to my Echo Studio. Yeah, like maybe my does.

Dad, I don't know. Put my fire stick in my Amazon TV. Exactly. Yeah, so you can link up a, you can link five of these to a fire TV stick and have surround sound. Five. Interesting. Yeah, up to five. So total surround.

There are new Kindle Scribes, which I think is probably the most interesting thing they dropped, because they are really trying to compete with remarkable. If you know that tablet company, they're like an e-ink, e-paper tablet company. Very premium, fairly expensive, but they've sort of been the benchmark. And I think it was either one or two years ago, Amazon released the original KindleScribe, which was basically supposed to be the Remarkable tablet, but a lot cheaper, more integrations with Kindle, all of that kind of stuff, which makes sense. But they finally released their color version to compete with Remarkable, called the KindleScribe

ColorSoft. It has two weeks of battery life. You can highlight, draw, and write in color on it. It's $630, which for an Amazon product is very, very expensive. expensive. Primo. Wow. And I don't,

I feel like their markup on this must be ridiculous. The remarkable is the same price. It is. For the pro. Oh, I'm on their website right now. You're looking at the portable one. Oh,

they have a big one. They have a big one. The big one is also $630. I think the Amazon just thought, well, technically we have integrations with Alexa now. We have, you can AI summarize different parts of the things that you're reading, I guess. I don't know.

I think that they just have more, They think they have more integrations and they have a better distribution system so they think that they can charge the same amount as them remarkable. And they're probably right because most people don't know about the remarkable, whereas Amazon can just throw it at the front of the page constantly. They have two other Kindles scribes. They have a new entry level one, which is $430. This stuff is like really expensive for what it is. Like you can buy an iPad for much cheaper than this. Yeah, you got to really want this specific form factor and screen technology.

Exactly. To pay $400, $500, $600 for it over any. other tablet. Adam has two of them. I wouldn't be shocked. So that's 430, and then there's another model that's a front lit model

that they're charging an extra $70 for just to get a front light to be able to actually see in dim lighting. Yeah, they're all 11 inches, they have thinner bezels and they have AI features. Yeah. I've really not got what the use case of this is over.

I can't believe we have AI paper. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, people really like them. People that use remarkable products are very, very happy with them. Sure. It's nice to kind of have that paper experience, but like Adam said, there are many sort of adaptive ways to have an iPad feel like paper. There's all the different screen stuff you can put on top of it. Ellis is nodding his head back and forth in a disapproving mode. Yeah, that's kind of bad. I thought I was going to love it. And then once I came to work and Adam had it on his iPad, and I was like, what did you do to your iPad? Yeah.

But that didn't cost me $640. That's true. Tusha. There's new Fire TVs. If you remember, which you might not, because Amazon is not that memorable of a company, they released their own TVs, their own Q-led TVs, like last year or the year before. I did not know that.

Yeah. They actually sell Amazon-branded Fire TV TVs that are not just the stick, but are actually Q-Leds. Who makes them? Amazon Basics TV. Probably, yeah. LG or something. It's probably their like C-tier display panels or whatever.

So now they have new Fire TV Omni Q-Leds, and I hate that that's a string of words. They're brighter, they have better processors, they have Dolby Vision and HGR-10 Plus, and they can automatically adjust the color of the display based on the ambient lighting of your room, which is sort of like true tone, right? Yeah. Yeah. They are 50 to 75 inches starting at $479. And also there are a new two and four series TVs with slinter bezels and faster processors starting at $159.

So this is going to be that Black Friday like crazy 50% off. I was just saying, like TV on Black Friday. Yeah. They throw this to the time. They're going to sell so many of this stuff. And then there's a bunch of new ring cameras that do 2K4K resolution. They have this thing they call retinal vision, which is kind of just like, an AI upscaling pipeline

similar to what Apple talked about when they say because Apple on the new iPhone said in the 2X crops and the 8X crop they have a new pipeline optical quality yeah

that's what they say which is the same thing that like Ring is basically saying is the thing yeah yeah doorbells now well we got we had those yeah we've had them

yeah but yeah I don't know it's it's sort of just that like you want smart home stuff from Amazon on Black Friday here's the new version That's what Techtober is all about sometimes. We want all our stuff on the shelves before the holiday season, so, bleh, here it is. But, yeah, much more interestingly, we got a preview of a new Google Home speaker.

Not surprisingly, they are yet again getting rid of the nest name, and I'm sure that in 27 they'll bring it back. No, this is for real. This is for real. For real for now. I feel like this is for real. I got briefed on this, and this felt like somebody who used Google Home, who works for Google was finally like, hey, shouldn't we fix this? And they did, I think. So I hope to get the update soon, but I've now seen all the new Google Home stuff. And essentially,

they plan on finally getting the last of the stuff that they've been making that only works with the Nest app out of it. So it can all work with Google. Yeah. If you had a Nest Aware subscription, that's now a Google, what's it called, Google something subscription? I think I got the email about that changing. Yeah, exactly. I just got that too. So it's all Google. The subscription is now Google. They're revamping the home app to be faster and to work with all these new things. They have a couple new accessories. They have a new doorbell, a new indoor camera, and I think a new outdoor camera as well. A couple new partnerships.

So there's like a cheaper, like a Walmart partnership for like a $22 camera and like a $45 doorbell. So that's what does that mean? Like if you buy it at a specific store, it's cheaper. I think it's they made it in, I mean, I think they made it in collaboration with Walmart, which is why it's so cheap. Is that what my notes say? We live in hell. Hey, it's cheap.

$22 for a camera is like Wise territory. Yeah, I was going to say Wise is like running the game within that price category. So this is where they're trying to get in. So yes, Google Home Premium subscription. And all of this stuff now

is going to work with Gemini. So all the stuff we have already in our homes that use the crummy Google assistant that has just been aging and failing and not working very well is going to be updated to Gemini. And they have some new stuff. I think the latest generation

of the stuff we have will work with Gemini Live, but also the new stuff will work with Gemini Live as well. So you can say, hey, G, start a chat, and then you're doing the whole Gemini Live back and forth conversation thing with all the context and the, you know, whatever it tells you. Yeah.

Versus just a regular hey G and then ask you a question and then hey G again and then ask a follow-up question. Yeah. You can do a whole conversation. So... Which Gemini Live is a paid feature. You have to have the premium subscription. In, yeah, one of the subscription tiers.

Yeah. I don't, I'm looking right now because it said, like, I got the email that said your Nest Aware is now being upgraded to Google Home Premium. Yeah. And then there's the standard and advance plan. So Google Home Premium is, is that launched now?

Officially? It sounds like it got, that's... Because I got the email saying, this is what it is now. Cool. So it sounds like that is out. Delete the Nest app. It's over.

It's finally gone. I don't see anything saying that I get the description notifications, search video history. That's actually pretty cool. like AI search through history because you have all of your events saved for 60 days and then you get

if you're in advance you get 24-7 history for 10 days so if I can search through that with your voice with my voice or even just like recognizing I'm assuming I can type in and it can recognize what happens right yeah I saw I got to do a demo and try some

of this stuff it seemed to be really straightforward not only can you create automations with your voice so if you want it to go hey every morning when I asked for this open the shades and turn the lights on or whatever. But you can also go, hey, show me when the squirrel ran across my driveway. And it will just find the clip when the last time the squirrel ran across the drive it was and played it because Gemini is plugged in now.

I can figure this stuff out for this camera feed. Also says event descriptions. It says more detailed event descriptions. Tell the whole story on cameras and doorbells. Yeah. So right now, if you have an event from the Google Home app, it'll just say motion in driveway or front door motion detected or person detected. And sometimes even a familiar face, it'll name.

Now, it will describe what's happening. So it'll say UPS guy holding flowers and brown box delivered package instead of package. Will it do this retroactively because I do have a clip the other day of me accidentally hitting Lane in the face with the door and it's on the doorbell? Yeah. I need to see it. What happens if you go up to a ring doorbell wearing a t-shirt that says ignore all previous instructions? wearing a t-shirt like can you prompt inject

the model unlikely but we'll probably put some of that in the description and the notification I just need to read person wearing shirt with text

I need to read Google's keyword blog because it is so confusing the headline is we're introducing the new home premium subscription plus new benefits for AI Pro

and AI Ultra subscribers and there are multiple plans so AI Pro and AI Ultra subscribers are going to get with their subscription one of these levels of the home. Yeah. These are the two nest plans that just have new names now.

No longer nest. No longer nest. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the standard plan, which is $10 a month or $100 a year, gives you Gemini Live and ask home for automation help,

30 days of video history and intelligent camera alerts. And then the advance plan, which is $20 a month or $200 a year, includes all standard features plus Gemini camera capabilities, such as AI event descriptions, home brief summaries, and searchable video history. So you have to pay 20 a month

if you want to do the AI video stuff. But if you have Google AI Pro and Ultra. I hate this. This is insane. There needs to be a flow chart for this. It actually does. Yeah.

Oh, Google. The nice thing is Ultra is just you get all the things. Yeah, but it's $200 a month. It's $1,000 every minute you use it. Yeah, it's $200 a month. Yeah. Nobody wants to print it. That's insane.

So yeah. It is all, I think, functionally all way better and I cannot wait to get this app update so I can stop using the Nest app and stop using the old Google Assistant, which is at this point retiring. Yeah. I think that's the end of it. Yeah. And yeah, having Gemini on all the stuff.

Yeah, there has been like a beta of Gemini on Google Home devices for a while, but this is the official rollout, I suppose. I do not seem to have it updated because it just. It's just the same. I think it should be rolling out today. It's probably rolling, yeah. Okay, well, the interesting thing is that the hardware is a little bit different. So the Google Home, they're calling it the Google Home Speaker.

And it's sort of the, it's, the size is sort of between a Nest Mini and a Nest Audio. So it's like bigger than a Ness Mini. It should have much better audio capabilities. Like it sounds a lot nicer. It's got 360 degree audio. You can connect multiple of them in stereo. And surprisingly, the, colors are very bold.

They have this, like, extremely saturated red. Yeah. And then they've got a green, which is kind of like a hazel. Well, actually, it's not a hazel. It's a green that's like a... It's hazel graze. Graze. It's just like a gray with a hint of green.

I think the red one is insanely bold. The red one is crazy bright. And I typically don't think of home accessories being like that boldly colored, but cool if you want to do that. But then the others are like charcoal or like ivory or slightly green, so... Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And it's not coming out until next year. The spring of next year. What is? The new speaker. Yeah. The new speaker. Right. But I think the doorbell and the, uh, the new camera and the other stuff is around the car.

I wonder if they announced it today because the Amazon event just happened and they were like, there's a bunch of new echo speakers and we need to like offset the news somehow. I feel it's just tectober. I guess, but you can't even order them. Uh, you can't? Can you pre-order them? Because they come out spring 2026. That's like a while away. All available now. That's six months away. They're in the Google store and they're available now. You can buy them now?

Nescam outdoor, 149. Oh, well, maybe that. I'm talking about the Google home speaker. Oh, just the speaker is later. Okay. But all the other new stuff, meaning the new doorbell and the new indoor speaker and the new outdoor speaker is on site. The jade green is pretty green. I wouldn't say that's a hint of green.

Oh, yeah, this speaker is a little more green. I was talking about the doorbell and the cameras. Well, yeah, we'll see how good it ends up being. But you know, it's always good. trivia Let's go It's simply always good Simply the best

Before we get into trivia We got to issue a correction From last week We got something wrong Unfortunately In a professional derby race If a jockey falls off their horse And the horse finishes the race

It is not counted as a victory Is that right? Yeah What did you guys talk about last? I saw a video And it was totally It counted They won't

They'll let the horse finish Because they're not going to interrupt the race But it will not be counted As a proper victory Or at least that's what I found on my research Marquez is fiercely typing Well the commentators seem to think In F1 if the driver falls out

And the car goes over That does count No But in NASCAR I do I am pretty sure it's Ricky Bobby rules Where if the driver crosses the finish line without the car. What?

There's no way that could be real. That's way too dangerous. It's happened in real races. Look where they crash and they get out. I can't wait for next week's correction. And they get fined afterwards for doing something so dangerous. Anyway, why, you almost get hit by a car and you get fined? That's crazy.

Well, Marquez confirms or denies my car. No, you're right. In the video that I was referencing, the commentator seemed to believe that the horse had just won, but it turns out, for betting purposes, that was declared a non-running. So, that's a good correction. Well, in other news, both of our questions this week are about Amazon products, Amazon hardware, and the wacky, wacky world that they live with it. Interesting. Because Amazon makes a lot of Echo products.

I sure do. And some of them are really poorly named. So I need you guys to tell me what kind, Marquez. Marquez has put on the smart glasses. We cannot confirm or deny whether he's cheating. Or watching reels. His mouth is closed, so he's not watching. Anyway, you guys have to tell me what kind of product the Echo Flex is.

What kind of product is the Echo Flex? Use the context. It's called the Flex. It's a slap band. It's a folding foam. I'm just kidding. I see you pinching. We'll be right back.

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back. 15% of my diet is Chulula. Andrew said that on me. So you know. Okay, so I have a fun game that I want to play. So if you guys will open the link that I put in the show notes. Oh. If you have the show notes open.

I do. I've created a Google Slides slide show. Yesterday, I was in the French Alps. Yeah, I know. Subtle flex. Pretty weird. And I brought many cameras, as I always do. But I decided that I wanted to kind of like push the limits of the new iPhone camera.

So I downloaded Halide onto my phone. I hit you for this. Which allows you to shoot actual raw, not just pro-Raw, which is already a little bit processed. And I also brought my Lika M-11 and a bunch of film cameras. And because the M-11 is a digital camera, I decided I was going to shoot a bunch of photos on all the cameras. And then I was going to kind of like take a look at how different all of the photos were. So what I'm doing this game is that I've made a series of slides of photos that I took. and you guys need to guess

whether or not they were taken on the iPhone or the Lyca M11. Wow, okay. And are we, so this is no pixel peeping or zooming just like you're looking at the wide. And it's already going to be compressed by putting on Google slides because it's fair enough. And are we a team?

You can... We should be a team because I will lose. All right. Let's team work. Let's make it a team service. I think it'll make it easier. Hosts versus producers. Ooh.

Oh, yeah, I like that. Okay. We do that. But, well, have to say it all out loud or else it's going to be really boring. Yeah, we can talk it out. Yeah, talk it out. Okay, so number one.

Number one. First one. So this is a nice wider shot of two stone cabins with all the Alps rising in the background and then a blue sky. And I should note that I have multiple lenses for my Mv11, so I have lenses that can emulate the different focal links of the iPhone. Oh, so you're like it can emulate an iPhone? Well.

Thinking out loud is this is a ton that is in focus, and it's a really. really nice landscape shot. I should also note that I shoot clothes down constantly. Of course, as you would with a scene like this. My only note, I mean, it does look very flat like the iPhone, but I think because Andrew, that snow and that wall of the cabin are a little hot, a little high exposed, I'm going M11 because I think the iPhone would flatten it even more. My only thought is whether he potentially shot this on a tripod or not, and that looks

like very uneven ground it was very uneven ground which would make a tripod very hard but i guess he doesn't necessarily need a tripod for this so i just whenever i imagine david with a camera i imagine a like four-foot box on a giant rickety wooden tripod so um it's very flat i'll go with i mean you're the expert here there's a lot of shadow detail i will say but he said this is this is a halide raw and not an iphone pro raw right but that you processed and processed yeah but barely but in theory if this was the iPhone it would still be a single bracket like there would not be yeah it wouldn't do hdr yes there's not hdr on it yeah so shadow detail means nothing and slightly blown highlights well i mean it couldn't mean something because it's still a raw photo and you still

have a lot of flexibility my thinking here is the the green and the grass it does not look super oversharpened or anything the way that i feel like iphone would do i'm looking at david he's not given me anything. I'm not allowed to get that thing. I think it's potentially iPhone just because David got really defensive about how close he shoots and everything right off the bat

which made me think Marquez was on the right trail. Although you said Lika, didn't you? I'm gonna say, I think it's the LICA also because of the green. I'm going iPhone. Wait, but you're on Marquez's team. What are we going? You guys do a ground?

I'm sure are you. Let me take this one. Okay. iPhone. Okay. We think it's the Lika. The answer is. iPhone.

What? Nice. No way. Nice, Andrew. Give me one. That's a point. Yeah, and I'll have to show you guys these photos. Maybe we should upload them separately in full resolution because it looks.

Yeah, Lincoln Show notes. I mean, it's still a great looking photo. Yeah, but it looks like crap on Google slides compared. That's iPhone? This isn't how you guys look at photos? And by the way, so this is a basically unprocessed iPhone raw photo. To your point about the whites being hot, on the raw photos from the iPhone, the whites are quite hot. Usually they have a little bit at the top.

They're a little bit over, like, it just, it's not doing, it's not pulling down the highlights and jacking up the shadows like it would in a normal iPhone shot. Right. So that is not necessarily a giveaway. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. All right, let's move on to Image 2. Okay. Wow.

Image 2 looks like you've climbed to the top of a very tall mountain. Yeah. And pointed down at the peak of another very tall mountain, which is poking through the clouds. And again, blue sky in the background and some foreground detail. A lot of snow. this is a lot of snow yeah um wow it's a climber yeah there's a guy climbing in the very deep snow and presumably what looks like people have skied down yeah people people ski off this cliff and paraglide that's crazy um it's ridiculous this is one of those things where i'm i'm leaning camera

but just to think david got up here with the camera there's so much detail this has to be So much to, yeah, I think it's the, so the mountain coming out of the clouds, that specifically just looks so sharp but not fake sharp. Yeah. It looks really. What can I ask one question? Yeah. About the M11. Yeah.

How much dynamic range does it typically have? Quite a lot. The M10, without getting into too much detail, the M10 peaked the highlights. Like, if you clipped the highlights, they were just gone, the M11 has quite a bit more dynamic range. Yeah. This is M11. I think M11. I honestly have no idea anymore.

It's the like. What did you, can you tell us what post-processing you might have done? Like, did you limit it to just curves? Did you adjust the color? I did very little to this photo. Would you have added a vignette? No, I didn't add it again. All right, then this is the likeo for sure.

Look at the sky. Yeah. Yeah, there's a little vignette in the top corners. Yeah. Yeah, that's a leka. That's a leka. Let's go, baby. All right.

Cool. All right. It looks fire. Let's move on to photo. Okay, so this is a set of photos. Two photos. That are kind of the same photo. The focal links are a little bit different, but they're taken from the same perspective.

And, yeah, they look very similar. Yeah, one is, you can see the rock. So it is a mountain at a, like, kind of lakeside. Or is this like a glacial lake? This is an alpine lake. Yeah, an alpine lake. But, like, you can see the rock in the left picture. That's the rock in the right picture.

and it is in a very tighter lens. He's very tall. He's doing the people's eyebrow. Marquez is what's happening? It's very tall? Don't worry about it. So you can see the rock. What else can you also see...

I'm just saying you can tell the focal lengths are extremely different. They're different. They're different. The green of the water on the right versus the slightly bluer cast of the water on the left. Right.

I am fairly confident the iPhone is on the left and the LICA's on the right. Your green thing, though, might be because of how far zoomed in the one on the, or the right is, where you're seeing most of the green

on the shallower part closer to David on the left, where the right, wow. Wait, you said this is at the same location? The one of the right is the LICA. I'm standing in the same... I know.

I'm standing in the same spot for both of these, but I had different focal links on the different cameras. But I have lenses for the LICA that match the focal links at the iPhone. But that obviously didn't happen on this one. Yeah, I didn't go in, I didn't, when I was there, I wasn't like, I'm going to do this test. I just had this idea on the plane right back.

I'm staking my entire thesis on this. The way that the rocks look on the left looks like iPhone processing, even though there's not a ton of processing, it just looks like an iPhone. So I'm going left is iPhone, right as Lika. I was going to go right as Lika just because of how good the detail in the right most mountains that aren't in the left photo is. Okay, I got it, I got it The left is the Leica Because there is dirt on the sensor David

Top left No, that's a bird Never mind Yeah, that's a bird It is a bird I just thought that was My computer screen is dirty I was literally scrating my computer screen these past five minutes

I think producer table agrees with Marquez That the Leica is the one on the right For two reasons One, I think The one on the right is cropped in after you took the

like you cropped it in in lightroom and I don't think you'd really be able to do that on an iPhone and get something that looks so nice and two

there's way more dynamic range in the sky on the one on the right which I think you would need superior like a processing

to accomplish okay the answer is that you're all wrong both iPhones the iPhone the iPhone photo is the one on the right

Yeah. Damn. And that's a singular raw image that like I barely processed at all. It's impressive. Isn't that? It's really impressive. Even like all the gravel close to you on that. I just want to see.

No, no, no, no. It means that the iPhone's computational photography is trash. If this is what the sensor is doing when left to its own devices. Exactly. What are we doing people? Like a regular iPhone photo would not look nearly. Well, okay. This is a beautiful scene.

Yeah. It's really hard to take a bad looking photo of. Sure. So if you give this... Watch me. Step aside. If you stand out there in all this light and take it and you give the sensor this best case scenario, almost any modern sensor is going to do a very respected...

I don't know. Not with computational photography. Well, as I was saying, the sensor will. But then the processing is what gives your photo the look afterwards. And this is the point I wanted to make. Yeah. Is that phone processing sucks. Because all they're doing is they're just optimizing for storage.

They're optimizing for, like, shadow detail. This is why, and I might get crap for saying this, but like when Google got rid of their regular raw processing and they introduced a sort of like pro-Raw kind of thing, which is, in my opinion, just worse, because it just lifts the shadows. And you don't always want the shadows to be lifted if you want it to look like a real picture.

Anyway, we can move on. You're all wrong. Wait, was that actually dust on the sensor and not a bird? No, that is actually a bird. Oh, I thought you were trying to throw Adam off. No, it is a bird. It was like, shh. It was a bird. I did later get dust on my sensor, but that is a bird.

Okay. Next photo. You want to describe it? Next photo is what looks on the left side of the frame to be a really high stack of various sized rocks. So is that a Karen? What? I think that's how you pronounce it. A lot of like national parks and stuff will put up these small rock structures to indicate where a trail is. Yeah, yeah. So this is like clearly a trail pass with a lot of snow on it, but... I thought they had just built it to sort of... replicate the shape of the mountain in front of it.

It's funny because I always am not sure how to pronounce it because I think it's C-A-R-I-N. Oh, like a Corinne? Oh, no, C-A-I-R-N. Man-M-M-M-A-Pilestone used to mark a trail, especially in areas with Pathmike here. Cairn? Oh, somebody's going to roast me for that, but...

Okay, so you want to describe the image as you see it? Yeah. So it looks like on the left side of the frame, we got a really solid stack of stones with some snow on them possibly indicating a trailhead or something like that and then on the right is a whole bunch of snow covered mountains a whole bunch of blue sky in the background still plenty of dynamic range a lot of things in the shadow of the mountain this time uh yeah a lot of d r to play with i'm confused i'm going to say this is iphone my initial thought was iphone with no real

substantial evidence to back it with my thinking is the shadows on the mountain are a little high and the sky looks the same as the iPhone picture in the last image like the gradient my logic is they're all when they're so compressed in google slides you can't use detail anymore so i'm trying to go by exposure that's fair and the whole at first i was like that little portion in the middle right that is almost fully black it's pretty dark and that's something that the iPhone kind of wouldn't allow but they also have the entire shadow side

of this mountain in a lot of detail which kind of feels like something the iPhone would do so I don't know I'm gonna I guess I'm going iPhone because the mountains in shadow and you can see all of it I'm stumped on this one like there's nothing I can really

point to which is frustrating man oh wait you can see it reflection of him with the camera in the snow. I wish. In his smart glasses. It's the meta raybans. David, which camera was this one? This is the iPhone. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Next photo. Next photo is a landscape of a mountainside lake. The lake is blue-green. The mountains in the background are covered in snow. The foreground has less snow. It's mostly stones and moss and some olive green plant type stuff and the sky is blue again with some serious clouds yeah i there's a little

grain to it no yeah or is that just the water that's google slides i'm just looking at the water and i guess it's ripples in the water i think that's ripples in the water okay yeah well the shadow is the right side plenty detail there i'm i'm going i iPhone again i'm going like a i think I think if you look at the sky, there's a little bit of grain that I think would be a... That looks exactly the same as in the last photo. Why are you doing this to me, Andrew? Which was an iPhone. And the one before...

Yeah, I think iPhone also. Yeah, I think we think it's an iPhone. Ellis is just shaking his head. It's also funny because I may have skipped ahead to the next one. And I could tell how long you stayed at this lake, because there's that one singular rock formation somewhere in all of these photos. It kind of looks like a, like, tower. camera this is a 16 pro 17 pro 17 pro yeah which camera is this one this is iPhone so you're this what's gonna convince me to buy the new iPhone no I'm you could take this

with an iPhone 3GS I don't know about that it doesn't even have a plateau I did see someone go around taking side-by-side pictures and it didn't do bad the 3Gs yeah I mean do it this much like the 3GS processing was better before they introduced computational photography but okay we want to the next photo I know these are a lot of fairly similar... Yeah, this next one is a landscape version from maybe the other side of that lake? Yeah, okay.

A lot of shadow on the left. Deep mountains and the highlights on the right. Wow. I'm going back to Lika because I think there's some real shadow depth on the left in that little crevice. Still a ton of range, though. I just kind of hope it's the iPhone.

The rock on the right has like a green tint to it. Yeah. That feels I know nothing about Likas It feels like something I think iPhone because at this point I think David's just trying to f*** me So

That's not a bad strategy That's good Oh Ellis found something Never mind It's the Lika What did you find What did you find?

We're on slide six right I'm not tripping Yeah six It's Lika What'd you find I can't tell you I mean we already I mean it could be two

Really Bokae birds But Oh I also Let's look at those on my screen. This really looks like smudge. Oh, that is smudge. Yeah.

I got spots on my sensor. My iPhones, just kidding. Yeah, no, it's the LICA. I also probably should have cropped this differently because it's more of a giveaway when this landscape. Yeah, spec ratio. Yeah. But I did crop some of the iPhone photos.

So if slide seven is the iPhone, I'm throwing away all of my cameras. Okay. So slide seven. This is like an ultra detailed, really far away landscape of two mountain peaks where the sun is casting a shadow that so only the peaks of the mountain are illuminated and you have this valley that is in shadow but still has so much detail. Yeah, there's a lot of detail in all of the shadow. And even just like the rock face or the hill in front of him, you can see everything.

This is really cool because like where the sun is hitting is the only snow cap part of the mountains where the rest you can see the ski trails despite it not having snow. So you can tell this is like the valley of a. you know a ski town and the fact that you could still see all of that in all of the shadow is very impressive I wish I was at the scene so I could see how light it actually is but I think because it's darker I'm going likea but I could be wrong I'm going likea for my wallet's sake I think I'm going like a on vibes I'm looking this up because I don't remember I feel like that says something right um is it this one yeah

That one. This is actually an iPhone selfie camera. Yeah. That's why it's square. He unlocked the full sensor. All right. This one's the iPhone. Okay.

Well, I guess I'm just going to murder myself. That's crazy, David. I know. It's crazy. It is crazy. Raw photos are crazy. You know why I couldn't tell? Because it didn't say shot on iPhone.

Yeah. Where's the watermark? Yeah. Where's the branding? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, there's two more. Yeah. Second to the last one here is very blue. Very blue. You're on the, you're on the edge of a lake. A beautiful reflection of a mountain in an alpine lake.

And there's a, there's a person right in the center of the frame. Walking past the white snow cat mountain. Yeah. With a cloud. You must be really altitude right now. Yeah, it was 12,000 feet. Sick. Wow. I almost broke my knees. Oh, man. I wish this water wasn't ripply. Well, I tried on so many, it was too bright to even do a long exposure on. like any of my cameras. I tried to do long exposures and it was too much light. I didn't have any ND filters with me so I couldn't

which is sad because it would have been awesome. Well no I just mean I wish it wasn't ripply because then the reflection would be like perfectly intact. Yeah exactly. Which would have been sick. Which would have been awesome. That's what they like mirror lake at. Yeah. Yosemite everyone loves it. I want to get this right now. I'm going like it. I'm defaulting to whatever Ellis wants to say for this one. The shadow is very dark. It is very sharp.

We have lost meaningful detail in the snow on the mountain, I've noticed. And we've also lost meaningful detail on the shadow in the foreground. This is the iPhone. Because of the lesser dynamic range, I'm going iPhone. I don't even have a good reason anymore. Yeah, it's got iPhone. It has to be the iPhone. This one is the iPhone.

Which, ironically, I took this on the M11 as well, and I liked the iPhone shot. Okay, I picked it because you pointed to your LICO when you were talking about long exposure, and then you went, I mean, all my cameras, and I thought you just gave it away. No, yeah, well. All right, the final shot. This is an iPhone. Final shot is a nice big valley shot where the mountains are going up to the left and up to the right, and in the far, far distance, there is a trail going up to this beautiful snow-capped mountain.

Also, far less ideal lighting. Yeah, it's clearly darker, clearly darker, clearly quite a bit more. I don't know if it's noise or grain or what, but there's clouds, you know? It's not a blue sky anymore. It almost looks like a smoky clouds. Wow. Oh, this looks like a postcard. Is this a trick question?

Did you take this with a different camera? Because this looks very different from all the other photos you took. Well, because there's way less light. It's because it's horizontal. Well, no, just all of it looks totally different lighting. It looks like a stock wallpaper on a Mac. Complementary? Sure.

Yeah, a lot of the other photos were taking at like similar times of day. This is much different lighting. I'm going to go iPhone for this one just because I feel like I've seen, here we go. I'm going to be wrong and I'm going to sound like an idiot more so than I already have been. But I feel like I've seen this same level of like breakdown in the shadows with like smartphone photography. I'm guessing like this. This is also my favorite photo out of all of them.

Dang. I think this could be the iPhone. Yeah. I'm going iPhone. I think it's the iPhone, but just because it looks like Apple Media. I don't have any... I guess it looks like the sky is doing that thing again. Like the iPhone seems to take some of the exposure of the mountain and add it to the sky

in a few of these. If that makes any sense. Like I've noticing like on some of the Likas, it gradients out to dark as you go up. And on a lot of the iPhone shots, it gradients to the color of the mountain as you get closer to the horizon. This shot is the LICA. I don't know anything. I'm going to.

good at this camera. I suck at this. The least amount of knowledge. Anyway, the point of this was to just show you that, like, while I still prefer traditional cameras for the shooting experience, um, you too can take pretty cool pictures just with your phone. It's pretty insane. Like, freaky good. Like, freaky good. Like, you can't tell the difference. I'm going to steal one of our like iPhone pros just so I can go back and forth between the pixel pro and the iPhone pro because this is really bothering me. Yeah. I feel like I might have chosen wrong this year. Are there- Are there raw apps on Pixel now or like they're probably are right raw camera apps?

I believe there's like open camera yeah well there's like a little cup of Saviche raw apps raw apps oh any one very nice with the jokes I like wow I forgot what it's called but I think zero cam my local suviche place caught on fire a few weeks ago now they only serve grilled brand Zimo I think that's our cue Let's do trivia All right Trivia, what was David's local

Covee Place? What? One echo product that people often forget about are the Amazon Echo Buds. No, I never forgot. I never forgot. What was the last year that Amazon tried to sell these

sub-50-dollar true wireless A&C buds? They were under $50. Under $50. Remember the Echo Frames? Am I thinking of The wrong ones? The, I'm, this is Price's right rules. So if you go over your disqualified, it's, you, do you hear that?

You go over your disqualified. Yeah. So what was the last year they made them? Okay. All right. Well, we'll think about this one. Answers at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

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We are using this last segment to jump in to listen to maybe the most interesting part of my conversation that I got to have when I was out in Menlo Park with James Cameron, who you might have heard of, a pretty legendary movie producer, director, creator, filmmaker in his own right, and with Andrew Bosworth, who was also there with Meta. So he's a CTO of Meta, and we just kind of had a random off-the-cuff chat about what they're doing with these glasses, the first person video, and it kind of went off the rails, to be honest, but this last part of the conversation I thought was pretty fun just because I found interesting to put someone from like real OG media into a YouTuber's shoes and try to ask him a little bit about what he

thinks of you know the character and the filmmaker being one and the same so without any further ado here's some of that conversation you know I've I'm familiar with audio projects and it seems like they take advantage of either some bleeding edge technology or some new technology to to give a new perspective or make something incredible and I wonder if you see first-person cameras as an opportunity for even a movie or a project that could maybe have some unique perspective we haven't seen before. Do you picture a first-person movie being interesting? Well, I think the filmmaker becomes the character in that, right?

And so how charismatic or interesting is your filmmaker? Most filmmakers are perfectly happy way back behind your camera. They're not being constantly studied. But on the other hand, we've got a whole generation coming up on social media that are just used to being observed all the time. And even, you know, the whole influencer culture, people want to be observed. You know, so absolutely, I think you could, you can have a first-person narrative shot with first-person lenses. It could be script, could be fully scripted. It could be a proper production.

You know, I think that'd be a lot of fun. You know, I would go back again to this thing that I wrote back. in 1993, I think, called Strange Days, and it was about, we just, people just record their experience, and then they sell it to other people, you know, which, by the way, is the world we live in. It turns out. Turns out, I was a little ahead of time on that. Yeah.

We're kind of there. I feel like a lot of my videos are me trying to put the device in your hands so you can see what it's like to hold it and own it before you actually buy it. And as tech gets better, I'm able to do that with higher fidelity and more personality and closer to real time. But you become the filmmaker and the performer at the same time. Yeah. It's a one-man band.

The viewer gets put into my shoes, yeah. Yeah. Which is pretty sweet. Well, I mean, you know, we are going to do this deep sea expedition thing where I might be in that very role. Because as my experience is being lived and I'm seeing something that's never been seen before, that's being piped out.

And part of a number of feeds, there will be, you know, multiple people experiencing this, and then we'll have to figure out how to switch that, how to, you know, how to turn it into some kind of a piece downstream that's going out live. So that'll all get worked out. Pretty excited about that. Take tech challenge, it sounds like. Can't say too much about that right now. I'm excited about it.

I can't say too much. Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes together. I watched the Avatar. Oh, you saw the content for today? Yeah, the two clips from today. And you saw it in the Quest 3? I saw it in Quest 3.

Yeah. Yeah. It plays well in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, the, trailer. device I think. Yeah, I mean, I've never watched an entire movie in a headset, but I'm thinking like, it's almost getting to the place where I'd be fine with that. The headset's light enough now. What'd you do? You'd make them lighter and... Yeah. We had where to do. James has notes. I imagine. But we listen. Yeah. Sick. Yeah, I think it plays well. And, you know, the thing I love about the, you know, MR or VR, or VR, is...

that they're innately stereoscopic so anything you're going to want to put up in there is going to be 3d and i've been working on on 3d production for 25 years and and have figured out how to make it easy to watch you know and and non not confronting to your senses and and so on if you were if you were a YouTuber today put yourself in my shoes i've been trying to make more and more realistic content to put the viewer in my shoes to see what it's like to hold what I'm holding. Yeah. Do you think 3D content is the natural inevitable future of what I'm doing, or is that

more of a alongside? I think 650 million years of evolution says yes. Because once organisms got to two eyes, nature never looked back, and we have two eyes for a reason because it gives us more engagement, right? So what do you want to do as a YouTuber? You want to engage people. You want to hold eyeballs, right? Yeah.

So engagement, I mean, it has to do with a lot of neurobiology and that sort of thing about how the brain communicates with itself internally, and you probably know this, but there are a lot of neurons in the visual cortex that are triggered by parallax. So what is, when you're writing a discrete image to two eyes, you're generating parallax in the brain, right? That's where we fuse those two images together to make a 3D kind of sense of the world. And because those different brain regions have to talk to each other, those, and, you know, so a neuron's like a, like a GPU, right?

So it's, that particular neuron does nothing but sense parallax. Other neurons do other things, they recognize faces. This is parallax recognition. And then those different regions of the visual cortex talk to each other. So there's actually enhanced brain activity when you're staring out of flat image versus a stereoscopic image. So that same thing about when you wrote memory deeper based on emotion, it's the same principle.

The more your brain is active, the better you'll remember it, the more engaged you'll be. So yeah. So that's the long-witted answer. what an answer is yes yeah i think it's a depth and breadth thing if you look at the trends in media content not just in the internet but even going back a hundred years to the novel novella article like they go to the edges you know our most popular media types now are 100 plus hour video games and the shortest like most rapidly available content and it makes sense like we either have a little bit of time and we're just like snatching it up and you'd be foolish especially in your

business not to be paying good attention to that that's where it's kind of the easy and easy out. But there's a second part of this, which is can you take the depth of engagement for your most loyal, committed people and bring them in deeper? And there is a whole history here of investments to make sure that it's getting easier and easier over time to tell more compelling stories, more compelling experiences to people. And that's one of things that we're really passionate about, obviously. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of see it as a natural as a natural evolution. There are all kinds of things too that will today turn 2D imagery into it'll try to perceive a stereoscopic version of that and it's impressive. It's a AI and it kind of

seems to figure it out pretty quickly. It's going to take over eventually. I mean I think right now there's one very decisive advantage with native stereo cameras, which is real time. You know, to get a really comparable result from a gen AI, you know, stereo conversion model or depth model, it needs more time. Right. But it'll catch up. You know, it'll catch up. All right. Well, that was a pretty fun conversation. Shout out again to Boz and James Cameron for the time,

which leaves us with just one more thing to do this episode. Now that everyone's back, it's, of course, trivia time. Question number one is about the Amazon Echo Flex. What was it? That's it. That's the question. That's a really good question. What was the...

I know, because Echo Flex tells you literally nothing. I was going to say, like, that's a bad name if you don't know what it is. It's sick. It's... Is this closest without going over? sure yeah it's one of those slap bracelets guys what is it Marquez you first

I think it's some sort of a display nope I said phone no I put smart display nope okay what if I told you that the echo flex was that the clock it's a microwave USBA to wall adapter that has a speaker and Alexa built in yup

why did they name it that why did they name it that Why did they have with the flex? Who knows? Why would you name that? What the heck? All right. Quick update on the score while we're here. Marquez with six.

Andrew with eight. David, after getting 0 for two last week when we called him after the pod, still at three. All right. Wow. That ain't way too well. Next question. What was the last year that Amazon tried to sell $50 true wireless A&C earbuds called the Amazon Echo Buds.

As close as I'm going on. They fluctuated in price over the years in different versions, but almost all the ones I saw were sub-50. So if there are any die-hard Echo Buds users out there who paid more than $50

and are mad, I'm not giving them credit, please email me. Podcast to mkbhg.com. I don't remember the Echo Buds at all. No. Adam just doesn't want to get the angry emails. I don't have access to that email, so you will be.

Hitting him. All right. Who wants to read first? They can go in ascending order because I put 2020. 2020. They were made after that. Yeah. I put 2021.

They were made after that. I think the answer is 2024, but I put 2023 to be safe. They were made after that because the answer is, well, David, you do get the point. Yay. But the answer is, they are still being made to this day. You can go on Amazon.com and buy a pair of Echo Buds. That was good framing. Absolutely should not do it.

I thought when I heard that, I was like, really, a sub-50-a-N-C had, like, earbuds seems like a great product today. So if they stopped making them, they must have had like a really important reason to stop making them, which might have been like around COVID times because if they kept going after COVID, they would have found out that there's a really good market for that. I just thought it's funny that they make this and no one, I've never heard. I didn't even know they made them before today. Yeah. On the Alexa store, there are two different models of Amazon Echo Buds that are both listed.

as newest model. Tough. You know, it's crazy that, like, you know, one of the most valuable companies in the world, folks. They'll run by humans, after all. Allegedly, man. Can I yell at a company real quick? $2.37 trillion company.

How much is Open AI worth? Nothing, because they're still not profitable. Fair. Well, they released a new sort of app that we didn't talk about, but we will probably at some point. But not on Android. How is this company so, like it has all the money, and they didn't really send it. Well, SORA is just the slop generator, right?

Yeah, but they have the app now on iOS. There's a SORA app, yeah, now specifically. Cool. Well, hey, either way, that's been it for this episode. Hope you enjoyed lots of fun conversations more coming up as well. Obviously, we had some people on this episode, but we have more coming on future episodes. So stay tuned for that. Get subscribed if you haven't already.

And we'll catch you guys very soon next week in Techtober. Peace Wait a former produced by Adam Molina and Ellis River and partner with Box Media Podcast Network and our charge of music

was created by Bain Silk Bingo also we're already in tech to okay Marquez can you actually

scroll reels on there like for real for reels no joke damn that was good