Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Canada Bans Sale of Fuel-Burning Cars!

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

After a trip to the Sierra Nevada testing the best cameras for hiking, Andrew is back! And he has returned in the nick of time, as we've got a full range of topics this week. There is a plethora of of EV talk with the Porsche Taycan recall, Canada's forthcoming ban of non-EV cars, and several new Rivian camping accessories. We also discuss whether or not the Nintendo Switch OLED model is worth the upgrade, and the great and not-so-great enhancements in iPadOS 15! Links: Subscribe to the pod & share with friends: http://bit.ly/WaveformMKBHD Subscribe to the pod on YouTube for full videos: https://bit.ly/WVFRMPodcastYouTube https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/AdamLukas17 https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Canada Bans Gas Cars: https://reut.rs/36mRx2x Switch OLED: https://bit.ly/3xrXpTT Porsche Taycan Recalled: https://bit.ly/3AGhkk8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What is good, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marques. And I'm Andrew. And today we've got a couple moves and shake-ups in the ev industry that i really want to talk about we also have a new nintendo switch and we're also going to talk about ipad os 15 but first andrew's back welcome i am i feel like i should be ripping my face off to show david's face instead that's his trademark intro was pretty impressive. He likes to appear for his intro on the podcast, but we got Andrew back. What was your last week like? I saw some crazy pictures you took. I probably had like one of the crazier weeks of my life last week because I started off by Friday, we closed on a house, which is my first time buying a house, which is like, thank you, thank you.

Crazy. And then before even getting to move in, we immediately left the next morning, on a house which is my first time buying a house which is like thank you thank you crazy and then before even getting to move in i we immediately left the next morning for yosemite which was i don't think i can even like start to explain how beautiful it was it was the craziest park i've ever been to just these like sheer granite walls that pop out of nowhere. Altitude, we hiked 66 miles in six days, so averaged over 10 a day. I was exhausted. Yeah, it was amazing. But if I want to tie some tech into here,

of course I did something that a little tech related. How did you bring tech to Yosemite National Park? So I've talked previously about bringing different cameras to parks and what I think is the best. I think I've kind of landed on like the a6300 body being that perfect like size form and like form factor of bringing with you on long hikes while still taking like super high quality photos um i think a phone is probably almost your next best bet and there were uh I'll explain in a second, but I brought this time the Fuji X100 Mark V, I believe it was.

Never used Fuji before. It's very new to me. David and Brandon taught me a few things before going out, like color profiles and I was messing around with them and it took some crazy photos, like really, really good photos. I posted them on Twitter. I do have to say though, as much fun as it was what's cool is it's you know fixed lens i don't have to bring lenses with me like yep those like really add up we were it was about 100 degrees out there so i was bringing i had a three liter bladder of water

and two water bottles and i was finishing that every day yeah um so having that little nice light camera was really nice and like i said said, it took great pictures, fixed lens, no lenses, awesome. My biggest issue with it was someone else in our group had an a6300. And every time I grabbed their camera to take pictures of them, the autofocus was just so nice and easy and simple and just nailed literally everything. And then I would go back to the Fuji and... Yeah, the Fuji autofocus is not as fast. It's not made to be fast though.

Interesting. I think my biggest issue with it was I really enjoyed looking through the viewfinder because of how bright it was. And I would tap to focus on the screen in the area I knew I was about to frame where I wanted focus. And when I'd lift it up to my eye,

either my like cheek or my nose would touch the screen and throw the autofocus on something else. And every time I would pick it up, it would just like be looking like the top right corner or something like that for focus. So I was trying to mess around with a couple different of the autofocus settings and nothing ever quite nailed what I wanted. I'm sure a lot of people will be really upset that i'm like using autofocus but what you're gonna say it's you know you're taking a lot of pictures of rocks

and trees and stuff that's not moving around too fast it's not moving but my thing is is like because the park is so big it's really hard to get scale so the majority of pictures i thought looked really good had people in them so i was trying to catch a lot of candid photos so it was like we were moving pretty fast because you were out for six or seven hours at a time and you just want to like pull it up snap the photo and just get it so yeah so i missed the sony having the like one by one comparison switching to the other one yeah made me just really really appreciate it and made me i think solidify my favorite hiking camera is like a sick the 6000 series yeah i went on i probably

told this before but i went on a hike once with the hasselblad x1d and the 45 and it's like it is their smallest mirrorless camera but it's a hasselblad so it's just big clunky weight and the slowest possible focus and i'm like i'm trying to just take a quick picture and then move on with the hike but like it's not a quick camera so i would not recommend anywhere near that camera for a hike yeah it's not i'll always remember i took a video of you once trying to get a picture of a bee up on the roof with the hassle blood when we first got it it was not easy also because the plane of focus is like a sliver of the diameter of a bee it's pretty tough yeah and you're like when you're doing the really really shallow depth of yeah and you're like when you're doing the

really really shallow depth of field and you're like if you're out on a hike and it's bright it's hard to see the screen you're like oh nailed that and then you get back and if you miss your that photo sucks you got to go back out eight miles we got to go back hiking tomorrow man so yeah it was a it was a ton of fun but i glad to be back. Yeah, glad to have you back. Thank you. Okay, Nintendo Switch OLED edition, or whatever they're calling it. New product is out. It seems like actually a pretty nice upgrade. I'm not a Switch user. I've used the PlayStations and the Xboxes.

I've used my computers, my mobile devices for gaming. Not a big Switch gamer. Can you tell me if these upgrades for the switch are actually worth what looks like a what is it a 50 increase in price i think it is yeah how does it look okay i will say it looks like it is worth the price but not worth the upgrade if that makes sense so if you already have a switch you probably you shouldn't get this okay that i wouldn't or i personally wouldn't i don't think the upgrade is enough so here's the thing it's an oled screen it's a little bigger it goes from 6.2 to 7 inches the thing is is it's still 720 when you're using it and although you get a

new dock it's still only 1080 when you put it onto your tv so i think i have seen a lot of rumors about a switch pro or something like that which if you're going to name something Pro, obviously you're not doing professional gaming on a Nintendo Switch. But the word Pro sort of implies a couple things, like probably 4K output from the dock and maybe higher than a 720p screen at 7 inches. Like the portable version, yeah. You'd want at least 1080, maybe high refresh or something. But it seems like the switch

audience really doesn't care about that type of stuff switch switch is definitely interesting because most of nintendo games are like super cartoony and it doesn't really matter as much but i don't think anyone would complain if they still had 4k mario kart or 4k mario party or anything like that um i know i would be amped about it and there were rumors saying that they were gonna use some new nvidia chip i believe that would have 4k output through the dock um but that this is not it so that makes me think first of all switch oled is like the dumbest name that's the name yeah that's that's as far as we know at least um but that just feels kind of weird they had the switch Lite, which is at $199.

The regular Switch is at $299. This is at $350. So I do think paying an extra $50 for a slightly bigger screen, OLED obviously has its advantages. Like, it's still going to look nicer despite still being 720. And then the dock is a little different. There's a white version. It has Ethernet on it which i

think is huge because before you had to use an adapter and said usb right yeah yeah um which that's annoying like most people probably use their switch on wi-fi which if you're downloading a huge game that takes forever potentially um and that has like some small things like they said improved audio for tabletop stuff it seems like they're trying they're definitely trying to say like this new oled screen is better for the people who use it on the tabletop i've never been one of those people it's just it seems just like a little nicer switch yeah it's a little bit of a nice 50 bucks more that's not bad if you don't have one already right um i kind of think the coolest thing about this potentially we haven't seen it yet is the switch price might go down which would be awesome imagine a switch at 250 um i think what works great about that is to me the switch is like a secondary gaming console i think if you are a

if you're strictly into consoles playstation xbox are the way to go if you are like me i'm a pc gamer and to me the switch is like i have friends over or i just want to lay down on the couch quickly but i don't want to spend playstation money right so like a lot of nintendo's games are much more casual i can sit down i can play mario kart i don't have to get super into it and slam my keyboard and controller or anything like that like that's why it's great to me. A secondary console. And as a secondary console, cheaper price is always better. And I don't care if it has 4K then. Exactly.

Yeah. The most fun I've ever had with a Switch was also the same place I've had the most fun with an iPad, which is on a plane. Oh, yeah. Or like in the back of a car, like in some sort of transport situation where you have a very small space, then like a switch is nice. Cause it's a small, like doesn't take up too much of your lap.

Same deal with like a smaller iPad, even like a bigger iPad. It's kind of nice. So, uh, yeah, you know, obviously an iPad is much more expensive.

So you get a couple of games you like, and the switch can be a much better bargain than buying an iPad and getting some games for it. So another huge thing about switch is like, what makes it the most fun is the multiplayer aspect of it. And a lot of that has to do with if other people have Switches. So like, especially with tabletop stuff, they do a lot of different features

where if you have multiple Switches folded out on a table, they can connect to each other and you can play different games. So putting that at a lower price just makes that way more accessible and able to use those features way more often. So I mean, I know this was a storyline about the OLED Switch, but I feel like if the Switch price goes down, that's the biggest story here. Yeah. I have a hot take. Yeah.

Every company is pretty bad in some way with naming. And Nintendo just proved it with this one. Yeah. It's a rough one. So, first of all, this is called the Nintendo Switch OLED, which by itself is like not the worst. You get what Nintendo Switch is. This is the OLED version of it.

Really, it's just like a bigger, nicer screen with some extra features. But remember when the Switch Lite came out and it doesn't, you can't take the Joy-Cons off, which means it doesn't switch into anything. It's not. The whole point of Switch. I've never put that together. Right?

It's a Switch. The whole point of Switch was like, I can take it off the dock and play handheld, or I can switch it into the dock, take the Joy-Cons off, and play it on a TV. That's what a Switch is. And this Switch Lite didn't let you do that at all, so it didn't really let you switch, and they just kept the same name. I'm so embarrassed that I've never put that together. Yeah.

Every company has something dumb like this. Every company. No exceptions. That's my hot take. Here's my suggestion for what they should have called this. I just thought of this. Okay. Although for one reason it doesn't work is because you can also get the new dock in white.

So this doesn't help with me. But switch switch i was gonna say switch plus but why black okay so it's just a small naming change it doesn't really imply that much has changed but what's the biggest benefit of oled black blacks yeah it's a bigger screen it's a it's just a little bit more i feel like everyone gets what Plus is, and that's why I would have said Plus. I think people might care about the bigger screen more than the fact that it's OLED. I mean, the LCD is not that great.

What I also haven't confirmed yet is if, it does say it does work with other Switch accessories like Joy-Con, but I can't tell if the footprint's any different because the screen is bigger. I don't know if it just means the bezels are smaller, and therefore it's the same exact footprint i kind of think so yeah um okay but you might have to use the new dock for it it comes to the dock anyway so i don't see why that would make any difference um yeah yeah switch plus there's my i still just switch black i was pretty

proud of that i'm kind of sad that you weren't that impressed with it. I would take both of those over Switch OLED. I think, yeah. All right. Speaking of weirdly named products, the Taycan Turbo, which doesn't have any turbos. That's a good segue, Marques. That was pretty solid. I'll give you that. Thank you.

So Porsche recalled Taycans over a sudden power loss problem. This was a headline I just saw this past weekorsche recalling its ev with a small number of cars reporting a power loss problem which is obviously a big problem and also the audi e-tron gt which is built on the same architecture also had a small number of those problems so they're also going to be recalling um but yeah the the article just kind of reads like there's a small number of issues and drivers reported this problem for a long time and they've been aware of it and trying to fix it. And now you can bring it into a Porsche dealership and they will have to do a 60 to 90 minute software update to fix this thing and give you your car back. So essentially what's happening is there's a smaller 12-volt battery in there that's specifically made to keep parts of the car on when the car is turned off.

I know that sounds kind of weird. All the accessories and stuff. Yeah. The huge battery pack of the car drives the car. There's a much smaller battery. Like every car has a small battery to run the instrument cluster and the always-on internet connection. Yeah, exactly.

And to make sure you can unlock your car when it's turned off or else you'd never be able to get in. And what was happening was if that battery died at any point, so I guess if it got low enough and then you started driving and it died while you were driving, it would in some cases shut off the larger battery pack. Wow. So you were just, now you just had nothing. And I mean, this sounds not that

different from like do you remember when you're you had steering issues but that's still something powering off while you're driving and yeah anything powering off while you're driving is terrifying it's not great um i've had power steering i once knocked my keys in my car going down a hill and and turned the car off and lost power steering and like had to go down a hill and turned the car off and lost power steering and had to go down a hill without it. And it was terrifying. Yeah. You never want that, especially when it's an easily fixable bug.

So I'm glad they're fixing it. It says Porsche sold around 43,000 Taycans, which is maybe the most interesting thing I learned from this article because I'm trying to think about all the scale and size of all these different competitors and EVs. And they claim it only affects a very small number of users. And I believe that because this is the first time I'm hearing about it. Yeah, newer cars being manufactured will have the software update already and it won't have the problem.

I always think like what if this issue had happened to a different company? Like if you reframe this headline, insert company here is recalling their car over a sudden power loss problem. Obviously, if you replace Tesla with with that it's a huge headline what if you replace like ford and some random like hundred thousand dollar ford what is a what is a high-end ev1 or like any any any random ford car like does anybody even care uh does it even make headlines at all you know it's like right now ev is clearly a thing. I do remember a long time.

Do you remember? Man, this is very. I remember doing a Kern event in like fifth grade about this. Do you remember Firestone tires having a huge issue? Like I do feel like at certain points when there are things that affect driving, which is like as safe as it is, is also something that's always kind of skirting the line of death, which is kind of terrifying. But like when anything happens when things are drivers, it generally makes some headline.

I think EV though definitely will always be the bigger headline these days because it's more new. It's more, I hate to say it, but there's clearly more like fear mongering based on it because people don't want to switch to EV yet. Yeah. It has the most skepticism too, right? For sure.

People don't know about EVs in a lot of places. So when they're looking into or learning about EVs, they're trying to figure out, okay, well, seems like there's these pros. What are the cons? What's the catch? Like, let me figure out what EVs are all about. So headlines about the most popular EVs are the most popular headlines. Yeah. It happens all the time.

I think, like you said, with Porsche right now, people who are buying take-ins probably have hopefully decent income and they're kind of like they're willing to take that step into EV a little more. Whereas if this were to happen to the F-150 right out the gate, I think it would be very detrimental to a lot of people switching to EV. You're talking about the Lightning. The Lightning. Yeah, definitely.

I see that affecting more people. That's one where I shouldn't give any company benefit of the doubt in anything. I should always just use it and review it. use it and review it. But I feel like the F-150 Lightning is maybe the best example of an EV that a company can't afford to screw up. Oh, for sure. I mean, they're aware of that. They told us that.

Ford, and we'll talk more about like transitioning the EVs as companies later, but Ford really wants to make a great electric F-150 because they've attached the name to it, because they've attached this heritage to it and they've attached this heritage to it and they're they're banking on people buying it and switching and starting this thing where they can eventually sell more and more electric cars and be the company that successfully transitions so their first one having any sort of issues for sure they're going to be doubling down right they're going to be on top of it they're going to make sure um that they don't have any of these problems so you know i hope to see it turn out that way i hope they don't have any of these problems. So, you know, I hope to see it turn out that way.

I hope they don't have any problems. But yeah, as far as giving benefit of the doubt, I feel like that's one where we really expect to see Ford go all out. So that's I'm looking forward to that. For sure. All right. Let's take a quick break. We've got to come back and talk about Canada banning gas cars.

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Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. All right. Welcome back. We got to talk about this new headline. There is a lot actually to unpack in this one very dense headline. So I'm going to just read the headline and then we can break it down. Yeah. So here's the headline.

Canada to ban sale of new fuel-powered cars and light trucks from 2035. Okay. So Canada's putting their foot down. They're saying no more gas cars and light truck sales in Canada starting in 2035. So that's what, 14 years from now? Yeah, it's not that far away. So there's a lot. There's a lot.

There's a lot here. Let's start with Canada. For sure. Shout out to Canada. Lots of great Canadian friends on the internet. Yeah, there's not a lot of countries that will just outright ban something as a whole like that, but Canada is one of them, and they'll do that. I feel like they're neighbors down here in the U.S.

It would never happen that way, but there's lots of companies you will see building up to committing to EVs. Exactly. Like Ford or Audi or whoever will say, we're going to offer a bunch of EVs by this date. And it's kind of just up to how committed they want to be or how far they think they can get. So Canada is just straight up saying, like, as a committing to the environment, like, we will not have any more sales of gas cars. So that brings us to the second thing, banning sales. Yes. Because we have to double check on this.

They're not banning the manufacture of certain things. You'll still be allowed to manufacture gas cars anywhere. You'll still be allowed to have all the same economics but starting when this takes place in 2035 um you will not be able to buy a new gas car or light truck in 2035 so that's one thing even there i'm trying to figure out i didn't see it in the article but i'm assuming it's new i'm assuming yes they're not going to destroy new New. Oh, it does say. Okay, yeah. So you will, I guess, be able to buy a used gas car because it was already made. You can buy someone else's car from someone. But as far as manufacturers that are selling their new cars in Canada, if they want to sell any car in Canada, it cannot be fuel powered.

That's basically what happens. It has to have zero emissions. Yeah. So if you're Toyota and you want to ship cars over to North America, you better have an electric version to sell to Canada. Otherwise, you're not selling to any Canadians, basically. I guess the only other... Is hydrogen powered still really a thing? We haven't...

Yeah. It just has to have zero emissions. Sure. We're going to say EV for the rest of this because that's what we assume. Yeah. There could be some crazy new, I doubt it. Could be a fuel cell. You never know.

But it just has to be zero emissions for the sake of clearly protecting climate change. That's safe. Okay. Then the next is actually kind of key, cars and light trucks. And I think that's something to take note of because I had to look up the definition of light trucks. And that includes like obviously the F-150s of the world, but also, like, lots of other trucks people use for work. Yeah. That loops those in, too.

So it's not just recreational cars people are buying. It's also when people are forced to upgrade their fleets of trucks for their light-duty, you know, construction or whatever jobs, they are going to have to start to buy electric versions by 2035. So that loops in light trucks as well. I wonder how intense that gets because like my guess, so the first thing I think of when I think light truck, I think of a truck that doesn't have to tow pretty much. And like I totally get that because I don't think we're at the mileage in EVs or, you know, maybe we will be in 14 years,

but it's hard to make that pledge now. Towing is the big thing that I do think probably gas cars are benefiting it now because when you have to tow things at a certain time in a certain time period like that charging does actually add up so i'm assuming that's why it says light trucks i don't know where that lands in the fleet section though how many loopholes there will be of people being like you know yeah i just have a smaller f-150 but i tow stuff so i need a gas-powered. I feel like that brings me to the last part of the headline, which is 2035. There will be different leadership probably by 2035.

There will be lots of advancements in tech by 2035. There will just be a different landscape in Canada and its surrounding neighbors by 2035. For sure. its surrounding neighbors by 2035. For sure. So it's sort of this like really far out target that we think makes sense. Actually, I'll get to the reactions in a second, but I think makes a lot of sense to say, okay, we're just going to set this target out so you guys all know, everybody in Canada, you all know by 2035, don't plan on actually having the ability to buy a gas car starting

in this year. Couple of deeper thoughts on that. One, today and probably forever, Canada's cold. And so electric cars in Canada specifically have a harder time in the winter because the range is less because you have to heat up the battery. And that's been something people in the Northeast deal with. They pretty much only sell all-wheel drive cars in Canada. No one wants rear-wheel drive in Canada because it snows out there.

You need a certain type of car. And so for that reason, a lot of Canadians have avoided EVs because they have much worse range in the winter. Yeah, I think I actually wrote something down that it's only like 3% of cars sold in Canada are EV. Yeah. So if you're thinking about, and that's like, you know, 3% sounds very small, but that's still like three out of every 100 cars sold that are new are electric. That's like, that's pretty low, but it's not bad. Yeah.

I'm just thinking like, all right, so by 2035, 14 years from now, will the tech be good enough? I think so. But will the tech be good enough that that range drop off in the winter is no longer a concern? I hope so. But I just want to talk about the two different reactions that I've seen to this headline. So, again, the headline is Canada banning the sale of new fuel-powered cars and light trucks by 2035. The two different reactions I've seen are, one, 2035 is way too late, and the other is 2035 is way too early.

That's the two very different reactions I've seen. I don't know if I fall in one camp or the other. I think this is a pretty reasonable target. I agree with you completely i think this is a great headline a very a perfect headline for people who for journalists and and news websites pretty much like this is going to get reactions because of that people are looking at this at total extremes the sale of new i wish i had a statistic here but, but like new cars are, they sell a lot. But if you look at how many people buy used cars because they're cheaper and they're still

super reliable, like the used sale market is insane. Yeah. So there's still going to be so many gas cars sold in 2035 in Canada, as long as all this stays there. So with all the EVs increasing, we're going to see a lot less gas cars, but there are still going to be a ton of gas cars. And that's just for regular consumers too. Yeah.

So the line right under the headline is Canada will ban the sale of fuel-burning cars and new light-duty trucks from 2035 in an effort to reach net zero emissions across the country by 2050. So like you said, people are still going to keep buying gas cars. But eventually, eventually the turnover as people get new cars will be so much that we can try to attack this net zero emissions thing. But yeah, that first reaction of 2035 is way too late. On one hand, I get that because we're, I don't know if you just, I just retweeted another random video of the ocean on fire.

Like the climate crisis is real. It's 100% real. It's pretty real. And the fact that, you know, we give it another 14, 15 years of sort of business as usual, not really incentivizing buying electric cars. I mean, I think there is a tax incentive in Canada, but it's just not the same as banning gas cars. So another 15 years of gas cars to a lot of people seems like a long time. But the other half of that, 2035 is way too early, I think comes from people who are looking at the current state of electric cars and the

infrastructure, importantly, around them. And that is a much bigger challenge because now that we have, you know, there's a good electric cars out. I think you can buy today in Canada, an all wheel drive model three and be pretty happy despite like a little less range in the winter, but the charging networks, all the other alt alternate, I'll guess I'll call them EVs that don't charge a Tesla superchargers, but all the other EVs that don't charge a Tesla superchargers that have to rely on the infrastructure that's being built out right now, that seems kind of bleak. Like if you're looking at the current state of, okay, if I were to get an electric car sometime in the next few years,

would that be okay? So that's where a lot of people are coming from. They're like, I don't have a garage. I need to depend on where the chargers are, and there's nothing anywhere near my house. I live in this part of Canada and I get that too. So it's right in the middle for me. I find that funny because to me infrastructure seems like something where 15 years from now I don't see it being any issue.

I think you're probably right. I think just we're seeing such an influx in all these other people, the EV thing that they're going to have to figure out chargers, just like chargers are going to be something that just blow up soon. And, and the charging aspect of it, while clearly there's like technology involved in it, I don't think it's as crazy as creating a whole car at a certain price point and all that, like infrastructure has to happen and they're, you know're you know their their cars are going to be like affected by it so they're gonna have to pump that out fast and they're already pumping it out decently well i think tesla and all the other manufacturers infrastructure wise will be

everywhere in 15 15 years is a long time in the tech i'll be 45 in 2035 i hope i really hope you're right but it's also like it's more than even just building chargers there's lots of people saying like the grid can't handle that many new chargers like we want there to be right and that that's like billions of dollars in building and stuff where we're like all right we need to make as many chargers as there are gas stations sure we can pour money into building the chargers but can we we support all of the cars in Canada using all of those chargers all the time? That's like underground type infrastructure. Will that be ready in 14 years?

That I don't know about. And I guess the other thing is if this is, I mean, 2035 isn't the net zero emissions part, but 2050 is and not all EV chargers are producing zero emissions. Like you're getting electricity from coal burnings places at some point, like they're causing emissions. That's some. So I think it's a great step. Like you said, I don't think it's as intense as either of those sides look, but I'm super,

I cannot wait. Well, I can wait to be 45, but I cannot wait to see what the landscape of EVs and just cars in general are going to be up there. And I applaud Canada for taking a stance like this. You said too, and this is something I wondered, and hopefully someone in the comments or on Discord or something can help us out here, but we have term limits in the U.S., so I think this would be super hard for a president of the U.S. to ever pledge or ban

because in 15 years they're gone. Who's going to say the next person is not just going to overwrite that? I don't know how it works in Canada. And I think the U.K. has made a similar pledge banning them by 2030, I think. But I also don't know how elections work in both of those. Will these prime ministers be there until that that time to oversee it uh yeah i think that's all interesting i don't think the u.s could do it california though has as a state has done it right that's that's kind of what i more expect in the u.s yeah um but yeah it's always funny when

you see these deadlines set so far out i feel like they always move like whenever you hear like oh we're going to do this thing remember like 10 years ago when we heard about how many evs they'd be making by 2020 and 2025 and they're not really doing i remember that i remember like two or three years ago when they all started doing like anywhere from 25 to 50 almost every car manufacturer has pledged but i've been a couple missed deadlines oh i'm sure yeah i think those two together though might be what kind of puts us in the right direction though because you know i'm a car manufacturer and i promise by 2050 to have purely ev but i'm a car manufacturer and i can change that whenever i want because i don't really care and when you're a big company you don't seem to hit the repercussions quite as hard

as some other places but but if now you have a potential total loss of sales in a country i mean canada's the second largest country by landmass which obviously is different population wise they have a lot of the um the northern aspects of it but like it's not a small country to be taking sales away from so if i'm a car manufacturer now it's like oh no i'm gonna lose a huge especially those big, like I'm sure Subaru does really well up there with all wheel drive. I'm sure Toyota does great up there. I'm sure Ford does great up there. Yeah. So like they're all probably now like, okay, I need to take our pledge a little more seriously because we're going to lose this huge chunk of sales over there.

Yeah. To me, the companies themselves pledging to move to EVs by a certain year, to me, feels like part PR, part a little bit of internal pressure. Like, we want to be good at EVs, so let's just tell ourselves we're going to be good at EVs. But, like, you know, if we miss the date, like, who's going to, what's going to happen? Nothing's really going to come down and punish us.

Where this coming from the other side, where it's like, you won't be allowed to sell here by this year if you don't make an EV. And if you only offer a bad EV, like others will swallow your sales and you'll be pretty much out of that country. And then you lose all your loyalty for when you do come out with the EV. It's just like a bad cycle. Totally different pressure. So that is why I do appreciate this move from Canada. But yeah, I still do want to see a little more promises from the companies themselves. And I call them promises, but they're just kind of like setting vague targets for themselves. PR statements.

Yeah, PR statements. Their stock price goes up. Look, they said they'd make 50 EVs. Yeah, okay, great. Well, I want to see them. So that's where I'm at, but I appreciate this. Real quick, while we were discussing all that, Adam looked up. I mentioned new cars versus used cars before.

He found a quote that says in 2019, 17 million total vehicles were sold in the US. The rate at which secondhand vehicles increased double compared to new cars. So not two times as many new cars, but the rate at which they're being sold so that's the thing we're seeing all these new cars that are having longer and longer lives so like the secondary value of them becomes stays really good and the secondary car industry is great so like that's going to keep going i would not doubt if there are a couple people are going to be like we're going to build gas cars right up to 2035 and they are going to continue to sell at our used car dealership. And every year that the gas car gets better, they last a little bit longer.

I think I was reading about this too, but like the average lifespan of a car, meaning the average amount of time someone keeps the car they just bought for a new car is longer than ever. And for a lot of tech things, it's longer than ever. a lot of tech things it's longer than ever but basically if you keep selling your gas car right up until 2030 2035 they might keep that new gas car for eight nine years until so yeah the whole cycle of like transitioning to sustainable energy for transportation is a long one this is just one step to hopefully expedite that cycle that that turnover. But yeah. To me, that's why I think the people on the side of this is way too early. Why are we doing this? It'll never work. Feels like not a great argument. Listen, trust me, I'm sure there are people out there that have maybe decent arguments. But if your argument is just like, I like gas cars and I enjoy gas cars better than EV,

I can't agree with you on that. Because if the world gets way too hot and none of us can live in it anymore, who cares what car you're driving? Might be a hot take. Might be a hot take. Hot, hot take. Might be very hot. Hot. A literal hot take. Yeah.

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netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, let's talk about iPadOS 15. The newest version of iOS for the iPad. So, okay, I did a video about iOS 15 first. Lots of really cool features. Um, FaceTime has share play built in. Now there's this live text feature in the gallery where you can select text wherever you want. Lots of really cool stuff. Definitely watch that video. If you haven't already, then we also covered, we made a video showing iPadOS 15. Now this is, this is

the one that has some expectations to it, right? So M1 iPad Pro came out, and it's this crazy powerful chip, benchmarks over the 16-inch MacBook Pro, 16 gigs of RAM in a tablet. We're all looking at this like, okay, the iPad has reached yet another ridiculous performance peak, and it's just still an iPad. What are they going to do with this, right? So this is before WWDC. What are they going to do with this, right? So this is before WWDC. And I had a little montage in the video because there's a lot of us sort of talking about this. Like, well, maybe iPadOS 15 is going to be finally unlocking some new features, some new power, some window management, something. Something to take advantage of this new chip.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the iPad's crazy overpowered, right? So it comes out. It's announced at WWDC, developer beta. I install it. We start using it. It's basically the same thing. It's very similar. It does have some pretty cool features. Again, it has all the same iOS stuff we were talking about, live text. It's got share play and FaceTime. It's got the new maps. It's all shiny and with all these little tiny trees and everything. Very cool. Performance is great. I've been using it. It's actually a really stable beta, the public beta now.

But on iPadOS specifically, there's like three major new UI tweaks, and none of them for me really changed the way I use the iPad. Like I was maybe, I got my hopes up a little too high for this. I think a lot of people did. We probably did. But they are pretty cool. The big one, number one,

is you can put widgets anywhere on the home screen now. Neat. I've been doing that on Android for like 10 years now. So that's great. Appreciate that, Apple. Two, it's the same

multitasking fundamentals, but they've surfaced it now with these three dots that appear at the top of the screen everywhere you go. It's either full screen app, split screen app, or slide over app. And before on the iPad, I actually really like this because I don't really use slide over. Like I just forget about that gesture.

And a lot of times if I'm thinking about doing split screen, I will remember how many gestures I have to do to do it. And I just won't do it. Like never mind. I'll just go back and forth. I'll go back and forth. It's fine. But the fact that these three dots pop up everywhere now, every time you're in an app,

makes me, a power user, more likely to go in and split screen. Because it's just always a tap away. And now, real quick, if I remember, so I wasn't here last week when you guys filmed all this, so I didn't get to see most of it working. But if I remember correctly from WWDC, were they dots? Or it was almost like a little menu, right? That kind of showed what it's doing. So like split screen was like a, oh, you tap the dot first.

You tap the dots, it expands, shows you that menu. Okay, okay. And then you'd pick one. I remember that menu being like, oh yeah, people are going to use this way more because they remember what it can do instead of having to know the gestures from it. Yeah, that's like the best that is basically why i love it so much because you remember that you can do it all the time so i do split screen a little more often than i used to

um but the last thing is quick notes which is it's literally just an apple notes feature i don't i didn't use apple notes either very much i use pocket i use other note-taking apps i use tick tick uh google keep doesn't matter now with apple notes you can swipe i use pocket i use other note-taking apps i use tick tick uh google key doesn't matter now with apple notes you can swipe up from the corner at any point in ipad os and it'll give you a quick note and you can just write something down and save it kind of like you could if you're on the lock screen and samsung i was gonna bring that it's a samsung note it's actually used to use that pretty often like between like getting ready to go to the grocery store and like walking through the parking lot, I would just be like, oh yeah, and just whip

out the, that was the only thing I used the pen for. So good. It was really nice. It was, it was always like that one thing like, oh, I'm not a big stylist guy, but there is this one really useful feature. That was huge for me. Yeah. So this feels kind of like the same thing.

If you have a pen or you could also just do this with the keyboard. Yeah. You just swipe it from the corner. You get a quick note. You type whatever down. You swipe it away. You just save it to quick notes. Easy. The nice little bit is it will actually talk to other things on the screen underneath it.

So this is kind of like a UI thing I think Craig's probably pretty responsible for. Probably. Which basically like if you're in a browser and you pop up a quick note, you can just add that link right into the quick note. Okay. And then write something. You can highlight something on the page. And when you come back to that quick note later and click on the link, it'll bring you back, highlight the same thing on the page. So you're now a little more plugged into the UI, a little more like interactive with your

notes, I guess, which I liked. I thought that was good. Can you share those quick notes? Good question. I believe so. That would be huge. I'm thinking right now like okay i want to share this recipe with something i found it on this blog or whatever and for those

of you who look up recipes online i see it is like a you have to read a novel about why they love this recipe so much and then you get to the ingredients and then you get to how to make it and and if you like cooking a lot, you generally take a base recipe and you make changes to it. So I would love to link, highlight, pass the sob story that they made on why they enjoy making macaroni and cheese. It's content.

And I would just like to share it with somebody with a couple notes I put like, maybe this is too much milk. Maybe this wasn't enough cheese. I like using this type of pasta and send that whole note to somebody. That would be amazing. That I believe you can share individual notes.

Yes. So that including all the like highlights and everything. That part I want to I'm going to double check that. I think that'd be really cool. That'd be really awesome. Kind of the same way how if you took a screenshot on a Samsung phone and immediately annotated the screenshot, you could send that annotated screenshot to somebody. That was cool because you had the stylus and you could just start drawing on stuff and send that drawing

with your circles and your notes um with these quick links and these plugins and hotkeys i don't know if all of that will translate but i know it's useful even for yourself for saving things oh yeah i would still love it yeah so i you know it's not the revolutionary changes the way i use the ipad type software update. Maybe some of us were getting our hopes up for it, but I don't want to let my expectations be the thief of my joy. I want I want to just enjoy iPad OS for what it is. And for the couple people like me who are maybe teetering on on just getting rid of the MacBook entirely. I'm just going to tell you, it's not going to push you over the edge.

There's nothing like extra here for the file system or for window management that's going to really make you go, okay, now I can get rid of the MacBook. Now I don't have to have two things in my backpack. So the iPad maintains its position as a secondary computer to me, and that's fine.

I don't really mind that. But yeah, I, I think there's a lot of people who are waiting for like maybe something a little more that we didn't quite get. Here's the, here's the other side of that. Just to say, you know, maybe, I don't know if this is devil's advocate, but this software that I'm reviewing now on a thousand dollar iPad pro with an M one chip that I was hoping for some extra power features for this iPad OS is going to be on every iPad, right? I think we mentioned this on an earlier episode, but like the $329 iPad for education, like

the iPad airs, every single other one of these iPads is going to have the three dots, the quick notes, all these better features from iPad OS and iOS 15. And they all just got that much better. Yeah. So while the thousand dollar iPad with M1 disappointingly doesn't get pushed over the edge of cannibalizing MacBook sales, I can't say that doesn't shock me because all the other iPods, iPads get better too. And that's just kind of where they live in between iPhones and MacBooks. It sounds like I'm just conceding the iPad being a not great thing. I wanted to ask

that question. Do you think there ever comes a point point which is funny because they made all the ads like what is a computer but are they ever going to over overtake the macbook i think as long or like even be uh even be at the point where like people are choosing between those two and like it is doing enough to kind of be at the macbook level because i've heard arguments on both sides yes there are definitely people now that are choosing between the two. Maybe between a MacBook Air and an iPad Pro with a keyboard case or whatever. And I think it really is very dependent on workflow. This sounds like a cop-out answer, but for a lot of people, the iPad will do everything you want it to do.

I'm saying iPadOS is not the reason it now does everything you want it to do. It already did everything you wanted it to do. It already did everything you wanted it to do just a little more easily. Okay. Let me rephrase the question a little bit. Okay. If you were, cause like I can see a lot of people doing that who maybe haven't grown up on laptops as long. Do you think there's anyone who has a MacBook or MacBook pro that is going to be like my next device is strictly iPad. Does that make that a little tougher? Yes. Because of all the things you are used to on that.

I think one, I was watching Linus, I believe, and he was kind of making this argument that he doesn't think it will ever quite do that. And one of those is like just file transfers and stuff like that is so much different. And I couldn't believe it, but he says if I transfer a file, unless I sit there and watch the thing tick the whole time, I have to do something, do something, and then go back. I never get any confirmation that it finished filing. So I have to go check myself.

And that's just like- You wait for it to appear. Yeah. Yeah. That's the type of thing. So I think there are a lot of things like that that Apple could do to make the computer user be more comfortable only using an ipad but in general and i don't i kind of want to be wrong here but i think as long as apple

sells a computer yep they're what's a computer thing is really just advertising they're not going to overlap the computers they also sell yeah because they're cannibalizing their own sales in that sense so So why would they? Yeah. They didn't get to be a $2 trillion company by, oops, we're not that good at business. We accidentally cannibalize our own sales. Like, they're pretty good at this stuff. I mean, they did kind of, maybe this isn't the best example, but they did kind of do

it with iPod. How so? With the iPhone? Yeah. Like, remember, even that, like, random iPod they threw out two years ago, we bought it and we're instantly like, why on earth would anybody buy this? It is kind of different, I think. I think it got cannibalized by the times we live in. The fact that the iPhone has an iPod built into it, it completely 100% overlapped and people would buy the iPod if they just

wanted a cheaper version and didn't need the phone features. Where like if people are choosing between an iPad and a computer, it's not so simple where you're just like, oh, do I want the keyboard or not? Like it's a very software workflow problem that you just have to commit to. But yeah, I think the ipod was a victim of of the times do you think there's a specific accessory the ipad where if they like perfectly nailed it could be that final leap over and like let's imagine this would be the leap where apple would basically kind of like decide to stop selling macbooks and sell only ipads i feel like

it's keyboard yeah for me for me I was going to say if they made a keyboard that really balanced as well as a MacBook does, which is really hard because the iPad weighs a lot more than the screen of this laptop. But if they could pull that off, if they made

some sort of a surface magnet prong thing and now you have a four pound laptop but it's weighted perfectly, that off if they made like some sort of a surface like magnet prong thing and now you have like a four pound laptop but it's weighted perfectly i at that point i could stop using my macbook okay but i and it would need final cut and pro apps i don't i don't personally i don't personally edit on the laptop but i would love to see pro apps on the ipad pro um that being said yeah i'm i don't see that happening. I don't either because it would sacrifice portability.

So it would have to be some crazy invention in the future that somehow pulls that off with still making. Yeah, even third-party companies aren't making that. It's like such an engineering. I think the iPad weighs 1.6 pounds, the iPad Pro. And so if you want it to weight in a way where you can just sit like a normal laptop the base has to weigh at least 1.6 pounds which it does by the way the ipad i think is 1.5 and the base of the magic keyboard is 1.6 and it's already like kind of teetering and i put

it on my lap and it just falls right over i'd need something to be like 2.5 pounds now you're talking like twice the weight of an actual macbook for what a touchscreen for ios like it is weird no yeah i i can't imagine this what it looks like and i'm excited to see if it ever happens what that like new new technology is that allows it to to reach that level maybe one day the ipad pro is like super thin and light i think that's what would have to be the the ipad basically has to be as light as a computer screen a laptop screen that would be would have to be where it gets sick that's maybe by 2030 new bengate right there easy yeah that's the that's the obvious downside of that zach come on man um all right well we also i got one more thing i want to talk about

rivian's uh r1t there's a video uh tweeted by the ceo rj uh which is just uh just a video of him like taking a kitchen out the side of the truck no big deal small small detail let's um do you want to try and describe that a little better for audio listeners because just pulling a kitchen sink out of a that is a great point yeah okay so for audio audio only listeners uh picture a pickup truck and if you've seen an r1t you might actually know about the i think it's called the gear tunnel or something like that yeah which lives right behind the back seats and right in front of the bed so it's in that weird area where it's just usually i guess gas, gas tanks. And inside of that, we've seen videos of people putting coolers and like surfboards and golf clubs and things that can fit like in that column, which is pretty cool.

In this video, they pull out what's basically a module that fully fills the space. They set it up. It's got a kickstand, and they open that module, and it's like a sink, a stovetop, like a cutting board. It's this whole camping kitchen thing. And I was watching that. I was like, okay, first of all, very cool. Not that many people are going to buy it, but I love it.

It's going to be great for people who do want that. And this is a great example to me of an EV just doing something that gas cars can't. Just do something. Something to get people to go, oh, that's why I get an electric car over a gas car. It's because I literally can't. I don't have room for that in my car. If you put it in the trunk, maybe. But, like, there's all kinds of weird extra spaces you get from going electric.

There's no gas tank. There's no transmission. There's no drive shaft in the middle of a car. There's all this stuff that gets opened up. And it's just a cool thing to put there which is yeah what i enjoy i mean i think the tunnel in general is really cool and that's the best way to describe it i feel like it kind of looks like the vive logo almost like a rounded triangle yeah um and just imagine that yeah under your seat but you open it from the outsides and you can look straight through it and yeah they have this like whole kitchen thing that it slides out and then pops forward now to me this is the biggest design flaw because the way it pops up and your

space is if you're looking at the truck it pops out towards the passenger side door where it then blocks the passenger side door completely so you can't open the door so like if you have something in there you either have to go through the front door and through the back so i feel like if it just popped out towards the trunk it would totally eliminate that issue yeah um that feels minor like but like a pretty obvious yeah just get out the other side get out the other door yeah but but i do agree it feels like although it feels kind of gimmicky and i do think a lot of people who are buying a car specifically because they want to take a camping lot probably have a bunch of camping gear already that they would probably rather just store under there and have the extra space.

I wonder if there's any sort of module plug-in happening where you can use battery power to power the stove and there's other things that this module does to talk to the truck. It's got to be battery powered because it looked like an electric range, so it's got to be running off of that. It's not like a propane hookup or anything. So like you don't need a generator and a propane hookup anymore you just have the truck and the truck is the battery power for the stove and like your whatever other plugins you have i think that's neat i'd rather cook over a campfire if i'm camping well

it's usually the point but um yeah glamping glamping it's glamping yeah i mean i get it i think it's cool um i i think it's kind of gimmicky but at the same time i think these gimmicks are like the best pr moves ever because that video is going to get shared everywhere and it's going to get people thinking about evs and i think it's really fun i shared it yeah i think i think i'm i'm looking forward to more of these things you know i sawbertruck, and one of the things Cybertruck did, obviously besides the cyber quad in the back, which is technically another thing that you can do. It'll be an electric quad that plugs into the truck's battery.

Cool. But also there is a lot of high-powered plugs in the back. F-150 Lightning did this. The huge front trunk in the F-150 Lightning was another thing where I have a pickup truck. I don't really have a pickup truck. I don't really have like a small trunk of sealed storage. That's the thing I heard from a lot of pickup truck drivers in the comments of like I don't have to buy like a cover for my back, my tailgate if I just have rocks and stuff in there.

But I also want to have like two backpacks and a laptop and stuff. Just put it in the front trunk. And people in the back seat. Have you seen a lot of pickup drivers? Their back seat is just storage pretty much exactly so this that that was cool to see cyber truck also had a solar panel that rolled i'm not even sure if this is really going to happen but it rolled out of the back of the truck and covered it no no that that was a whole separate module but this was just like the cover for the Cybertruck that I think Jay Leno stood on, or Franz maybe, stood on top of.

I think Elon did this. He just walked up on top and was like, see, it's strong, it can hold me. But that was solar panels, and that would allegedly give you maybe a little extra juice or be able to charge some stuff. I could see that as something

that's charging the accessories you're using on it. Like, that feels cool, I guess. I don't know how you'd roll. Whatever. The whole point is this is a good one. This is a good example of a thing that an electric car can do that a gas car straight up can't that gives people a real reason to want one. So whether it's this, whether it's instant torque or a faster 60 or a front trunk or...

Or not killing the earth. Or not killing the earth. That works too. Or glamping, whatever it is you want to do. This is... More important. I like to see stuff like this. So shout out to them.

Hopefully we can get R1T here someday and maybe an autofocus episode. I would love that. That'd be pretty fun. That would be sick. Then we have to go glamping. We have to. Don't make promises you can't keep, Marcus, because I

love that video. It's part of the experience. We'll see. You can camp in that. I'll camp in a tent. We'll see who's more comfortable and who can cook more. We have to catch all our own stuff. I'm just kidding. That is a wrench. That is a big wrench. That's not glamping. All right. Well, we'll end it there. Thanks for tuning in

to the Waveform Podcast this week. We'll be back next week, of course. Happy July. And there's a bunch more tech coming out, so we'll, of course, have our thoughts and our conversations. Catch you guys over on Twitter. Subscribe if you haven't already on the YouTube channel. See you in the next one. Waveform was produced by Adam Molina.

We are partnered with Studio 71, and our intro outro music was created by Vain Silk.