Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Folding Huawei Mate Xs First Impressions, Explaining MKBHD Video Intros, & Truly Wireless Charging

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

Several people asked about our impressive camera shots in the Galaxy S21 review, so we pull back the curtains on how we created our crazy intro and "floating phone" shot. Then, after we finally got our hands on the folding Huawei Mate Xs, we offer our first impressions live and direct! Lastly, we close out the episode with some sweet, sweet Q & A action reading questions from you, our listeners. Links: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com Music by KamrenB: https://spoti.fi/2WRJOFh S21 MKBHD: https://bit.ly/3axEInH Michael Emerick Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mikey_Emerick Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. All right, good morning, good afternoon, good night. It's a different time zone everywhere, so I'll just say all the things. Good month, good year, all afternoon, good night. It's a different time zone everywhere, so I'll just say all the things. Good month, good year, all is good. Welcome back to the Waveform Podcast.

We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew, and I just wrote all that stuff in the beginning of the script to see if I could mess you up, but you pulled it off. I did. Not as fun as I thought it was going to be. It was perfect. We got a bunch of stuff to talk about in today's episode. Really, it's January, and it's always quiet in January and we kind of know it's

going to be quiet in the tech world. Yeah, I think everything, we had so many things to cover last week. We probably covered every single piece of news in January. Yeah, we fully caught up, for sure. But we did actually catch up. There was some videos in the past week, the Galaxy S21 review. And here's the thing, like that, it's a great phone.

It's a solid phone. It's a sort of a default phone and we all kind of knew it was coming with that. I was nowhere near the first review. This wasn't breaking news. A lot of you have already seen stuff about this phone. But we decided to have a little extra fun with the production itself

because, spoiler alert, we're video nerds and we like having fun with video stuff. So we'll talk through some of that fun stuff. And I also have here, sitting here, the Huawei Mate XS. Now what's funny is a bunch of rumors just started breaking out this week about how the sequel to this phone is finally coming in February. And I'd never actually gotten my hands on the Huawei Mate X or XS in the first place. So we finally have it here. I haven't let you touch it yet.

I haven't really even done much other than turn it on. We've only unboxed it. So I figured let's just check it out. Unboxed it. So what we're going to do later in the show is literally give our actual first impressions and just sort of see how we walk through a device when we first take it out the box. So it's sitting here collecting dust for a few minutes while we talk about other stuff.

But let's start with S21. That was a fun video. Like I said, it's a review that we kind of all were expecting for a while, knew it was gonna be in it, but we had some extra fun with it. Yeah, I'm sure everyone listening knows pretty much everything there is to of the S21. I still think my favorite debate is people debate, like, wondering if glass versus plastic is...

I think it's becoming more and more on the forefront of, like, I think we're going to see more plastic phones and I'm all for it. You were saying this morning how there's, like, a really good debate on both sides of it, pretty much. I like to try to see both sides of every debate, and some is harder than others. Sometimes you look at one side and you're like, this makes total sense. Then you try to look at the other side and you're like, that's kind of tough. When I look at glass versus plastic in a smartphone, I very clearly see wins for both sides. You said you're all for plastic. I imagine you've walked through this in your head, right?

I think it just gives me that premium premium feel and then it's covered with fingerprints and then it's more fragile. So it's just like, especially when the phones are getting cheaper, when we see the S21 lineup go down in price, which I think, I don't think plastic back made it go down $200, but I think it helped with that.

It's one of the things. It feels fantastic and it looks fantastic. So if I were given the S21 at the same price in glass or plastic, I would pick plastic. So I would not say it feels fantastic, but I would say it's almost indistinguishable from the glass, which is really what matters. So I'll use the S21 line as the example, which is S21 plus is glass. S21 is plastic. They're coated in the same thing. S21 Plus is glass, S21 is plastic. They're coated in the same thing. My feeling is glass wins in look

and mostly feel in the hand every time in that one specific category over plastic. Plastic can get really good, plastic can get kind of close, plastic can get coated just the right way to look great, but glass wins in feel every time. I don't know if it's just because we like the heavy feel. Sometimes they go with ceramics to give us that heavy feel, and sometimes it's just the texture of it.

So you're talking, though, like when I first hear you say feel, I think you mean just like what my fingertips feel like on the back of the phone, which you are, but also weight and just making it feel like. We were talking earlier about how this phone is lighter but it's not quite there was like a v30 or something that just felt so light in the hand and it's one of those things where at a certain point when you feel something that's so light it feels cheap it feels yeah like it's going to break and and i see that worry i don't think that's 21

feels like that though right so. So it's close, but in just that one category, I always give the wind to glass. But the other side of that coin is plastic wins at everything else. Plastic is cheaper. Plastic is lighter. Plastic is, you can kind of do more with it.

You can texturize it. You can do whatever color you want. We've seen some cool glass finishes, but I mean, fingerprints are a thing. Um, so I always, I always weigh those two things where if like, now here's the last part, a lot of people put a case on their phone and when you do put a case on your phone, it almost doesn't matter anymore, which means you should go with it with plastic because it's cheaper. It's lighter. It doesn't break when shatter when you drop it. But, uh,

yeah, I do see both sides of it. I, I am on the train that if you're making a $1,300, $1,500 phone, you should try to maximize everything. And plastic still doesn't feel like maximizing everything because glass will give you that better feel in the hand. But for every other phone, for anything that's not your maximum phone, I feel like plastic is fine for me. Do you think, this is just a thought that came to my mind as you said that, but when you're getting a more expensive phone, and so let's talk $1,200 plus, do you think people are more likely or less likely to put a case on that? Because I feel like there's an argument both ways there.

I want to protect money, but also I just paid twelve hundred dollars for this i want to experience it yeah in its whole um i think unfortunately it's more cases more cases than like an average phone i think there's just generally a lot of people putting cases on phones in the first place but uh i do think when you get like a shiny new thousand dollar phone you're more likely to go i need a case on ASAP. And I think that ends up in a case faster. That's a good point. And I saw a tweet recently, or maybe it was a Reddit post somewhere. It might've been on the dbrand Reddit, but somebody had just bought a new iPhone and they were really excited about it, but they bought their dbrand case after they ordered it. The

iPhone came first, dbrand case came second, and they broke the phone in the process of waiting for it. So it just brings up this really good point where if you're ever ordering some really nice case that's going to take longer, buy some cheap $5 case to protect your phone if you are that type of person. It's worth it. If you're scared of breaking your phone,

always have a case on it. But I'm always on the other side of the debate because I am the no-case person. I, you know, knock wood, this table's wood. I haven't dropped my phone in a long time. And every time I have a case on my phone, it's fine for a while. And then one day I take the case off

and I'm like, wow, this is way better. I'm so glad they designed the phone this way. It's nice and smooth. Almost without exception, every phone feels better without a case. Sometimes they're slippery sometimes i get fingerprints i get it but i just i don't know cases just never get close for me i go back and forth with cases i feel like i i'll appreciate it and then i'll be like i can't believe i've

lasted a year with this i should really put a case on it and then i get i start i'm like i love a case i can just toss my phone over here i can just toss it over here I'm at the climbing gym I can just drop it wherever I want and then I am like then again I take it off I'm like oh my god it's so thin it's so nice it feels so good and then I'm like I need to stop dropping this everywhere now though um yeah so yeah case rant plastic rant none of that was what I wrote down to talk about with s21 um i think the things people were most excited about in this were was some of the camera work and some of the shots we had in it so uh a lot of people asking how we did it i thought the thing is is we've done shots like this before and i thought we've explained them pretty well but maybe we haven't so i well here's the thing

it's a it's an audioonly podcast at the moment, right? So it is pretty hard to explain how we created this video shot versus how the shot looked in just our words. So we can try, and we'll break some stuff down a little bit here in this episode if you're into that. But I do inevitably think when we start making more video stuff about this, we'll be able to explain better. I think video podcasts could do like monthly breakdowns

of like our best shot of the month or something like that. That could be fun. But I think let's take this one step back and kind of bring up the two shots we're talking about, kind of go to the basics of it to explain it because we had a Reddit post trying to explain this floating phone shot in the most insane way possible and i was just like it was very simple and it's very simple and a lot of people at home can do most of these shots pretty easily well here's the thing about

our shots is they're always fundamentally they're always practical effects okay so if you ever look at a shot and think wow how did they do that do that? Is that CG? Is that computer generated? Did they have some sort of extra part of the phone mapped out? No, it's always practical effects. And what that means is you can achieve the same effect fundamentally if you have the same tools. It just takes a little bit of editing and sometimes a little bit of tweaking to make that final look convincing and sell it. And that's what we did. So the two shots.

What are the – so the two shots are – I'm sure the intro is one of them. The intro is one of them, but let's take one step back. And there's a shot that Vin got on a pink background with a pink record. And the phone is kind of laying flat but floating above the air. Oh, the floating phone. So, like, in a a way in a basic understanding those two shots are very similar the way we pulled them off we just one is with a still camera and ones with a moving camera so let's go to go to the floating phone shot first where the camera is

still which is does anyone at home listening should be able to pull this off like yeah very very easily and you can even just pull it off in Photoshop or something if you want. It's a very quick way to understand it. But paint a picture. Pink background, a couple things in the background. There's a phone. Imagine it's laying face down on a table except there's no table underneath it.

It's just floating in this atmosphere that Vin created. And it's pretty easy. And we had someone on Reddit saying they thought we had a high-speed camera floating in this atmosphere that Vin created. And it's pretty easy. And we had someone on Reddit saying they thought we had a high speed camera and was dropping the phone and we just did it enough times so that at one point the phone was laying perfectly flat and we captured that frame.

Oh my God. And that was the video. Okay, part of the talent of this team is when we have a shot idea, coming up with the most effective way to make that shot happen is actually a talent it's actually a really hard thing to do when we have this vision of a camera moving a certain way and we start with what if it should be on the robot and then we go actually we

can just keep the camera still and move the phone a lot of this stuff comes from practice uh so no we didn't use a high-speed camera i'm surprised they didn't go with fishing wire that's usually the go-to explainer for floating things i think we've almost always found fishing wires harder yes we've tried a fishing wire a couple times and it's gotten tough yeah fishing wire is thin strong pretty clear and for some reason really hard to keep not stable yeah um okay pretty much all this is is imagine a phone the thing we use to prop the phone up is two old camera batteries yeah we're also something underneath uh not quite the entire phone but propping the phone up flat above the surface in the position you want it and make sure it is not overlapping the product that you want to show floating at all because that will make editing

far far harder and all you need to do then is all, because that will make editing far, far harder. And all you need to do then is get one shot of the phone on the batteries propped up, and one shot with all of that out of frame and just the background. Slate is what they call it. That's what they call it, a slate. There you go. And then it's pretty easy once you're in Final Cut or Premiere or wherever, just layer those on top of each other with the shot of the phone above the shot of the slate, and then just crop up until you essentially get rid of the battery or whatever's holding the phone up, and voila, floating textbook. Floating phone, yeah.

If you've ever seen people, especially on YouTube, who have like a clone of themselves talking, like we've done in our own videos also it's a one shot on the left one shot on the right and a nice convincing gradient somewhere in between so you can composite those two shots that's all it is composite making things practical don't overlap yeah like overlapping is the hardest part which that means planning the shot beforehand or getting ready to sit in editing for a long time to mask that difference out. It would have taken us so much longer to do that with a high-speed camera.

Oh yeah, I can't imagine. So okay, the intro shot, that's a little more dynamic, a little more extra work, a little more hard to replicate intentionally. This is a fun one. But it's got the same basic idea behind it, which is if you can replicate the shot so just

think of the floating phone shot was two shots with the exact same framing if you have a device like a motorized slider or a robot like we do you can make those moving shots exactly the same yep in both scenarios so all this was was i think it was three or four shots i think it's a composite three shot three shots so the first one is like no lighting pretty much. Second one is kind of like twilight lighting, Brandon was calling it. And then the third one was the full lighting and included the phone in it.

So pretty much all that is, is the same shot three times with the robot that's doing the exact same movement, exact same framing, and then transitions between them with some sort of dissolve to make it look smooth. Now, all this sounds really simple when we say it like that, but if we rewind to Brandon pulling his hair out over stabilization. The theory of it is very simple. The theory is very simple, which is replicate the same shot three times, fade between the three shots, boom, you've got yourself a fun shot that's hard to replicate.

In addition to that, we're using a robot that has its own little quirks and requires additional stabilization, sometimes on a keyframe by keyframe basis to match shots. That's a lot of work. Then we're adding motion graphics that are tracked on top, which is a whole other layer to the process and working currently remotely with our motion graphics specialist, who's now on Twitter. Now on Twitter, by the way.

I will add his Twitter in the show notes. Shout out to him. That's just us having fun. That's us going, you know what would be cool? If we could have an outline of the phone, sort of a wireframe, get drawn into the frame in the middle of the move before the actual phone shows sort of a wireframe, get drawn into the frame in the middle of the move before the actual phone shows up in that wireframe,

that would be sick. Yeah, I'm convinced Brandon on his car ride in basically blacks out and starts developing these ideas and autopilot saves his life. But then he just comes into the studio, something's like, I have an idea for an intro. And we're all like, okay, good, we need to write. That means you can just go into the robot room

and we'll see you in, probably I'll see him in two hours when I have to control the robot. You probably won't see him for like another six hours. I love the whiteboard sessions that are like that meme of, I don't even know what show it is, but just like ranting in front of a whiteboard about like how this is how it's gonna go

and it's gonna look just like this. No, that's just us having fun. Yeah, I think the way to look at it is, in theory, this is very simple. And then once you get that simplicity down and know how to do it, that's when you can start adding flair to it like Brandon does. So if you wanted a medium between a still shot and what we did with the robot, imagine a motorized slider moving forward at a phone and in three different shots, you change the phone to three different colors of the same phone. And then in a nice smooth tracking forward,

you just layer those clips on top of each other with a dissolve and the phone changes colors as it moves in. Looks like magic. Yeah, so we're getting to this part now where we're having more advanced moves with the robot, lighting changes, and we're bringing in a graphic or a motion

graphics specialist to outline the phone in the same same way so it gets much more complicated which is where we're at but that doesn't mean you can't at home try some of these simple things and yeah i can't wait to see what people do we've had people replicate our stuff and it looks amazing that's some of my favorite videos to watch is people attempting to replicate our craziest shots. But as in the weeds as we just got for the past 15 minutes, however long it's been, I do want to bring it all the way back out to the fact that it's all motivated in some way.

And I think that's our biggest challenge is to give a reason for why a shot happens the way it does. So for something like the HomePod mini shot, it's not just a fun shot, but it's demonstrating a new feature. And for something like the Galaxy S21, well, it's a cool silhouette. Like not a lot of phones have a camera bump like that.

So we're showing and highlighting it in the opening seconds of the video. So it serves a purpose. So I guess half the fun is all that stuff we do with the camera. And because we're video nerds, we're gonna to get way in the weeds on that sort of stuff and how to make it. Um, but the practical effect is motivated when you zoom out to a YouTube and a video

production sense by something we want to show. So it is a cool opening shot, but it shows you something you haven't seen before. So that's, that's, I guess the idea. Cool. I have one more thing about S21 past the shots, but you had a tweet right before the review came out saying that the, let me just find this, Samsung has the most improved and most accurate portrait mode

in any smartphone right now. Oh yeah, a lot of people took that a little bit too simply. I think, yeah, let's clear this up a little bit because I feel like it got taken maybe out of context. Also, it's Twitter. You can't say that much. I was just paraphrased a little too simply.

Yeah, let's go through that. So I think the main debate on there, which is a really fun debate in that Twitter thread, Jackson Hayes mentions that his biggest issue with the new portrait mode is that it doesn't have any lens emulation similar to what iPhone and I think Pixel does it as well. Jackson, I fully agree with that. I do see a pretty big difference actually between the iPhone shots especially that have really great lens emulation at two different focal lengths

versus the sort of generic big Gaussian blur that Samsung does. But my specific shout out to the Samsung portrait mode was the accuracy of the cutout specifically. The edge detection. The edge detection. And their improvement in that edge detection is incredible. They've gone from missing a lot, where you know sometimes you open the viewfinder and you start the Portrait Mode preview,

and you're like, that looks like trash. If the photo looks like this, I don't even want it. It looked like that in the very beginning to now it's like it's handling hair blowing in the wind. It's handling both humans and boxy objects in their hands at the same time. It's handling the underarm cutout too. Yeah, that's always one where if your body's

creating some sort of isolated background image that it doesn't, it just assumes that's part of the subject. Right. The fact that it's cutting that out. It's getting all of that. It's super impressive. And so I have a couple examples in my tweet where, yeah, it's basically flawless. I mean, and this is, again, it's not flawless lens emulation and realistic large sensor simulation.

No, that's not my tweet. It's just the accuracy of the portrait. I should have used the word cutout, basically. It's the most accurate cutout. Or accurate edge detection, I think, would work perfectly. And I don't think there's any debate there. I think it's the most accurate edge detection over the others. Would you rather have an iPhone with slightly worse edge detection?

And I mean, we're still talking pretty good. But like you said, cut out under your arm maybe. If you're, imagine wearing headphones, like the piece between your head and the headphone band. Would you rather have maybe it missing a couple of those in a really nice depth fall off, like a real camera, like a lens emulation, or would you rather have perfect edge detection

and being able to control the background blur, but it's not like a lens depth of field. It's just Gaussian blur. I would rather have perfect edge detection because it's that much better right now. And I'm just going to err on the side of turning down the blur a little bit because right now really the edge detection is great

and then it kind of spoils the look by being this giant like like, super blurred background as if you're at, like, F1.2, which is weird because then you would need some sort of a natural fall-off, which comes from the emulation. So turn down the blur a little bit, and it looks a little more natural,

and because the edge detection is, like, a perfect cutout, I think that looks great. I just think I see in so many iPhone photos, like, especially on hair, and, like, edges of faces and ears and stuff, there's always, like especially on hair and like edges of faces and ears and stuff, there's always like a blotch that they just miss. And-

It can really take you out of a photo. Exactly. Every time I see that, I'm like, ugh, crappy portrait mode again on a phone. So I would take the perfect cutout. It's funny because right now, I think I would rather take the lens emulation because it does kind of feel like,

it just reminds me of when i was one of the first things i was learning in photoshop was like basically to do that is like you would cut people out and you would change the background color and it's like oh this is so cool and then you look at it a year later you're like this looks so fake yeah um but in the because of all of that i think the edge detection is much harder to accomplish, so I think it seems like a much easier step for Samsung to add lens emulation to their perfect cutouts than it does for Google and iPhone

to get better at edge detection. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. When I see that sort of level of improvement with their edge detection from Samsung, I feel like their logical next step is let's do fall-off and natural bokeh better, and that's gonna look awesome, with their edge detection from Samsung. I feel like their logical next step is, let's do fall off and natural bokeh better, and that's gonna look awesome.

And I think they can do that. And then add Helios bokeh. I mean, I would pay for that. That would be- I would literally pay for that. That feels like someone's gotta be able to make an app that can do that. Probably, but it's not gonna be as good

as if Samsung just builds it in. But yeah, please. That would be really sick. Please, that would be sick. You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon or they could be late for the bus.

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We've been talking about this, but I keep seeing that it's on the table. It's sitting here on the table. I took it out the box. How many times on this podcast do you think we've said we didn't think this was a real phone? Well, the story behind it. Should we tell the story behind it? It's kind of a fun one. Yeah, actually, I did want to say that. It's pretty cool cool so i'll tell this in a little bit less detail in the video so this

this will be a real breakdown uh is one of you one of you emailed me and said hey i just saw in your video about that other folding phone that sucked that you've never seen a Huawei Mate XS, a Huawei Mate X in person. I have. I own one. And like sent me a bunch of pictures of it and like here's the one that I use every day. This is my phone. Do you want to like should I ship it to you? Do you want to try one?

And first of all, not going to drop their name here for privacy reasons, but thank you. Huge like shout out to you for being that generous. Yeah, we really appreciate that. That was a big first domino to fall for us going, yeah, wait a second. Other people do have this phone. How have we not tried this yet? So we sort of went down a rabbit hole. We're like, maybe we can.

He's out of the country, so it's some international shipping concerns. Now we're like, oh, should we insure this? It's a very expensive phone. It's his personal phone. We don't want to lose it in the mailure this? It's a very expensive phone. It's his personal phone. We don't want to like lose it in the mail. It's not a cheap personal phone either. It's not a cheap, exactly. And it's like in these times,

like mail isn't the most reliable thing. So maybe we'll look into some other ways, but huge shout out for getting the ball rolling there. Then basically we did a little bit of research and started to figure out, like if we want to just buy one, it's impressively hard to get one in the US. Or Canada canada or canada north america they don't seem to and i can only assume i don't know about canada but that must have something to do with google play services not being allowed

and just huawei's relationship yeah yeah so essentially we we ended up turning to we're trying to figure out well what if we i haven't even told saff this well, what if we, I haven't even told Saf this, but we're like, what if we ship one to SuperSaf, and then he ships it to us, and then we have one? There's all these questions in our head about how to get one here. And eventually the wizards over at dbrand were just like, yes, we can secure one. They're the smartphone mafia. They are the gadget mafia. Let's not forget they secured 12 PS5s and 12 Xbox Series X for a giveaway. No idea how they did that, by the way, and I'm not even going to ask

because there's probably bloodshed. I don't know how they did that. But they managed to get a brand-new inbox, unopened, Huawei Mate XS. By the way, there's a Mate X and a Mate XS, which is a slight spec bump revision a few months later. I think we just looked it up on GSM Arena. The only difference is a Kirin 980 versus a 990, which essentially is just giving a 5G.

Yeah, so I'm holding the phone now. I just unboxed it. We're working on our video about it. Might even be out by the time this podcast is up, but I'm gonna hand it to you for the first time. This is the phone we've been seeing so many videos about and this is the prototypical've been seeing so many videos about and like this is the the prototypical like best looking outside folding phone okay so first i the reason i wanted to do

this on the podcast is because there's a very every single phone we get in hand we hold on to it we wait to unbox it on camera and then the minute the camera turns off all of us crowd around the table and snag it from each other to try and let me see that so i wanted to just do it live we had some time this morning and i didn't have a lot of stories for the podcast i thought this would be fun my first impression of this is it is so weird that i can hold it and i can't feel the fold or the connection or the hinge or anything it just feels like i'm holding a phone that's completely screen and has two buttons on the side so explain like how the fold yeah that is definitely unusual for every other folding phone explain the the way it folds okay so it is the exact opposite of the

samsung phone whereas the screen is on the outside and the outside of the screen is folding onto it not onto itself away from itself i mean if you took a book and if you were some punk kid in school and hated books and completely turned it inside out so the spine was cracking on top of each other that's what this would be like oh this is the first time i saw it on um huh interesting okay first thing i notice is when it turns on so you have the main screen that's on the folding part is your main screen on the front of it so it feels very at first like it's going to be bezel-less but it actually winds up having a fairly large bezel on the right side on one side and then the left side is where it just feels like a curved screen because the screen's actually

curving all the way to the back although it does shut itself off but it's like a waterfall screen on the left uh it reminds me of the first um was that like it wasn't was it note six or was it like s6 edge it was the note note something edge yeah the note edge one side only one side folded yeah a couple apps that's what this feels like except it's on the inside of my palm holding up my left hand or yeah the outside um the other thing i'm noticing is this a button to unlatch it yep okay so when you fold it over backwards like a book where you're breaking the spine, and you clip it in the back, you literally fold it flat and it clips in, and you have to unlock it by pressing a button, and it pops out like a book.

Yeah, but like, yeah, I'm folding it in. Let's see if we can get some ASMR clicking here. That sounded pretty solid, actually. That was nice. That was the unclick one more click oh yeah that's a five-star rating on apple podcast if i've ever heard one um i thought that looked weird when you pulled it out and unboxed it that's pretty satisfying yeah that makes me feel like yeah this this is clipped and it's staying in. And when I want it out, it almost folds about 90 degrees

and then it's a really simple fold out to your full screen, which looks great. This is why I'm not a reviewer because I can't. Okay. It's a nice size screen. Wow, it's real. Yeah, it's real. So when I took it out of the box,

I had a couple thoughts right off the bat. Number one, it's thinner than I expected. It's about as thick as like a, honestly, an S21 Ultra. What about, well, S21 Ultra, if the camera bump was all the way through. Yeah, the maximum thickness of the S21 Ultra is the standard thickness of this fold.

What about LG Wing? Wing is... I think it might be thinner than Wing. Wing is thicker than this. Can I go get Wing? I mean, I bet it's... You bet that's thinner than Wing? I would bet this is thinner than Wing.

I kind of do too, but I'm going to get it just to make sure. Okay. All right, so I'm holding Wing in my hand right now, and I'm trying to think of what that just felt like Final answer on if you think it is thicker. I believe it's thicker. Let me see let me see that I'm holding the wing next to it It looks very close. It's very close. Yeah, the wing and the mate excess are about the same thickness Yeah, what's what's interesting is if anyone out there has a wing with them

imagine the wing thickness no camera bump but all three of you have a wing and one and are interested in the made access um the made access is wider though as a front screen yeah so it's still a chunky phone but it is not unreasonable so i guess because i was coming from the flex pie which was a pretty poor like thickness to screen ratio i was expecting this to be thicker but it's not it is thin so i i understand the off factor a lot more number two i mean maybe this is just my my reviewer side coming straight out but i was like oh i can't wait for this to be 120 hertz because it's a 60 Hertz screen And all the animations are 60 Hertz and I immediately think I mean we're allegedly we're gonna see a successor pretty soon I'm thinking that's gonna be higher frame rate. Hopefully 120 Hertz. That'd be nice

And then the third thing I just think is alright We're gonna see rollables the advantage to rollables over this is probably just the actual aspect ratio and form factor you get like you said it's a big phone when you're holding it like this but it's a pretty normal aspect ratio yeah you click it open it's kind of like the samsung galaxy fold it's a square and that's nice because it's bigger but what do you get out of that bigger screen you can watch slightly bigger videos with huge black bars you You can type on a bigger keyboard. You can probably,

I'm really into this bigger form factor for emails. That's what I've loved the Fold for. I just feel like I'm getting so much done with multiple columns. But yeah, this is, it's fairly interesting. I think like in just pure design and feel in hand and just opening it up to a big screen, I'm so pumped at how nice this feels, honestly,

because I think ultimately this feels like one of the best ways to do a folding phone. I'd still worry about how delicate it is. One thing I just thought of though is, and I don't know if you have a fold, maybe you do this, maybe you don't, but do people usually fold it up in that almost like little laptop scenario?

Is that, or like if you use the, if you fold it and assume it's kind of two screens, like fold it 90 degrees almost and use the bottom as a keyboard and the top as your email thing, is that a thing foldable? You can't do that with this. Can't do that with this. I don't know if that's things people actually do, but. Can you watch movies like this? Not really. It's spring-loaded. It's really spring-loaded. People actually do, but... Can you watch movies like this? That's...

Not really. It's spring-loaded. It's really spring-loaded. So the... I like the latch. Is that what you call it? Yeah, I'd call it a latch. I'm just waiting for it to break as you're doing it.

Oh, what was... What did the... Oh. Like the first warning as you opened the box? Okay, the warnings, that is actually the first thing I noticed. So when you take it out the box, the phone is wrapped in this plastic like every other phone, but printed on that plastic is a bunch of warnings. You get past the phone. Underneath it is another card with the same set of warnings printed on it again in case you just threw out the plastic too fast.

One of those warnings was, do not fold and unfold this phone in anything less than minus five Celsius, which for us in the States, that's 23 degrees Fahrenheit, which it is definitely colder than that outside right now. So if I'm trying to take pictures, I better not fold and unfold my phone. Can I say something real quick? That's crazy. Also, I wonder about to take pictures. I better not fold and unfold my phone. Can I see something real quick? Also, I wonder about this screen protector. I'm surprised they didn't learn their lesson from Samsung,

but this is... They came first, technically. But yeah. Well, I guess XS did not, though, right? Oh, true. They should have made... The screen protector, I can only assume you don't want to take off,

but it is... There are enough lips on the top of it for someone to be like, huh, I don't really want this, and do exactly what we did. Which means I'm going to, by the way. Oh, yeah? I'm going to.

This phone is not going to make it through the review, right? You know what? I don't want to say let's break it, but I have a bad feeling it is going to break. I'm definitely not going to intentionally break it, but I'm going to treat it like I'm going to use the phone every day. Obviously, it doesn't have the best software experience to actually use it every day. But the point was, I made this point in our last video about the FlexPi, which is we should probably stop doing the folding on the outside thing. This is not the best way to protect this fragile new tech.

We can come back to it when the folds and the creases are better, but not great, right? I'm not expecting to have my mind changed about that fundamental thing, but I think I will still at the same time be really impressed with the tech. I think both things can be true. Yeah. I'm just realizing selfie mode. You have to use the screen folded on the back. There's no camera on the front. Right. So you have to physically turn. So you take selfies with the main camera and then use the screen on the back, which is like a pro and a con.

And then when you want to look at the picture, you have to flip it back around. Huh. That's a cool first impression. I can't believe it's real. This is, yeah. I'm into it. All right. Well, now that we've established that it's real and you guys should check out the video if it's up yet, let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we'll do some Q and A. We haven't done that in a

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is talking to you guys. And so we asked on Twitter what you wanted to know. I think this is the first one of 2021, technically. Yeah, I think it is. Of the new year. Welcome back. A lot of good questions, so we'll just dive right in. I have one right here at the top from Ben Sullins. His question is, now that we know the Plaid Plus Model S specs, what do you think the 2022 Roadster will be like?

That's the train's big old... I think it's saying that because it doesn't believe it'll come out in 2022. Yeah, I guess the first question is, is it coming out in 2022? Who knows? I don't know. I bet no.

I don't want to bet on that car anymore. But no, so I kind of think it's still going to be in line with what they initially predicted just late. So they were saying some of those stats would be 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds for the base model. I still think they will achieve that on, like, the stickiest tires. 250-plus mile an hour top speed I think is still achievable. the base model. I still think they will achieve that on like the stickiest tires. 250 plus mile an hour top speed, I think is still achievable. I'm just not sure if they need further like

maybe gearing or anything like that. I think they'll just continue working on those motors. And then 620 mile range is the big one. And I think when we get to those new, I guess it's 4680 battery cells for Plaid Model S, if Plaid Plus Model S does achieve 520 miles new, I guess it's 4680 battery cells for Plaid Model S. If Plaid Plus Model S does achieve 520 miles, then I think it's very possible for the smaller, lighter Roadster to achieve 600. Yeah. So it pretty much, what you're saying, it sounds like is Roadster is going to be Plaid Plus with a different lighter body that will increase a couple of specs from it, but not, honestly, not too much different. Yeah yeah i think it will be what they've projected just late which is fine tesla has a habit of doing that tesla has a habit of projecting amazing things full self-driving is ready all this stuff is going to be great our

specs are going to have this much and they never do it on time but i'll give them credit they always get to do it eventually so uh i think it will be all the specs initially projected, just late. I should sell a t-shirt that says that. We always do it eventually. Elon would probably wear that, or at least on a pair of short shorts, probably. Oh, I have a quick one.

Someone just asked, how do you feel about the S21 going back to full HD? I was just reading that one. Does it make things like watching Netflix a worse experience, or is it only noticeable when comparing to another phone? Here's what I'll say. I don't think it's noticeable 99% of the time. It is nice to have the option of watching 1440p videos,

and sometimes if you stumble across a good video, you will notice. But if you've never had a 1440p phone, this is one of the best 1080p screens ever in any phone no problem with it also i think the whole illusion of like these worse phones is played out way more in the comments section than it is from the actual tech reviewers uh especially remember the xr everyone was so mad at how bad the screen was based purely on specs, but like John Morrison did a video where he blind tested people and a lot of them picked the lower resolution phone.

You can have a great looking screen at a lower resolution and it still is going to perform very, very well. I've looked at S21 phone. If you didn't tell me that, I probably wouldn't have even noticed. Like most people, if they didn't see that physical number, probably wouldn't really be noticed. Like most people, if they didn't see that physical number,

probably wouldn't really be able to tell the difference, especially because it's a smaller phone too. It's 440 pixels per inch. That's less than the XR, right? Wasn't that like 480? iPhone XR was 326 pixels per inch. Okay. But I think the sticking point was it was pretty big,

and it was only 720p roughly, so people got kind of mad about that. But, hey, here we are. I think it's a great-looking screen. Yeah, it's a great-looking screen. Go into your Verizon or Walmart or something and take a look at it. You probably think it's going to look great, just like I think the XR looked great. All right, here's an interesting one,

and maybe I'm partially picking it because of the second part of the question. What do you think about all these smart things and wearables and all these apps with permissions and making our lives more connected, but at the expense of losing privacy and individuality on a larger scale? And then he asks, who's my favorite Valorant agent?

So let's go to the first one first. Okay. I think privacy is like a pretty, something we don't talk about that much, but I think that's also because there's so much behind it. And it's always something,

at least in my mind, like it's there. I think about it, but at the end of the day, I mostly just know the way these companies are making money is by selling me ads and if i can and it works i the amount of stuff i buy that i don't need it targets it very very well so i guess i'm not that worried that they're listening to my dinner conversation about where i'm going. I mean, I don't know. Like, I don't

think there's that much of my personal life that Google gives a damn about except for how, what my wallet's spending money on. Um, maybe I'm naive in thinking that, but for the most part, I don't get all that worried. I connect everything to everything. I don't really mind it that much. do everything, I don't really mind it that much. Yeah, I don't think you're alone. I think it's a pretty clear one-to-one inverse relationship between functionality, convenience versus privacy. And maybe we don't talk about it enough, but I feel like it's pretty well understood at this point that your smart tech has to know a lot about you to be smart that's why siri it's why the company that you know has the best privacy policy and honestly knows the least about you has the worst assistant in siri i mean bixby is pretty bad too but at

least it does a lot of in you know device stuff i think i've never put that together yeah it's i mean google's assistant's really good for a reason. So I think the bottom line is, yeah, we probably could talk about it more. It's not the sexiest topic to talk about, obviously, but it does have a lot of implications for the future, and I think the basic understanding of that inverse relationship is important. Yeah. Also, favorite Valorant agent right now is Ray's favorite team. He's probably 100 Thieves, but EG's new team looks good.

And one of the reasons I really like that, two of the players, Alexander and Temperature, I really like, but I also really like that right now there's a professional team that has men and women on the team together. I think we don't see that in esports that much. I don't know why, but I think it should happen more, and I'm really excited to root for a team

with mixed genders in it. Nice. Huh. I like this question what pointers would you give out to parents when buying their 13 year old their first smartphone first of all I want to rephrase this question a little bit like if they ask for a snapdragon 888 do they really need it let's not do just 13 year old let's just say like in general if you are a parent buying your kid tech number one you rule if you're even thinking about that because tech is expensive and if they're passionate about it that means you're looking at something they're passionate about and getting it for them which is awesome but this is a hard question to give advice for it is uh i don't think you need a snapdragon

triple eight no no i'll just say that i think it's pretty safe uh yeah so a smartphone is is one where it's like you've you've decided that okay they're at the right age where they need a smartphone it's appropriate to get them one they will be using the phone to be connected to the world in a way they've never been before. That involves possibly gaming experiences, possibly social media, possibly just emailing, whatever that is, maybe just texting their parents and family members. I think there's a lot of really great phones in a sweet spot of like well under 600 bucks that do that really well. The question is like kids watch reviews of $1,000 phones and they're like, I want that.

I want that S21 Ultra so I can take 100x shots of i don't know what they're taking pictures of but you know i want that amazing gaming experience and i want the fastest processor really really that's just going to be about future proofing and one of my rules for like making an important tech purchase decision is if you spend a little more now, you won't have to replace it as quickly later. And whether you do high-end stuff on the device or not, it does benefit you in that way. So instead of buying a new phone next year

because you bought a phone that gets old fast, you buy it every two to three years because you got a little nicer phone that has future-proofing. I think there's another angle to that and is how, not how much do you trust your kid, but how, how well do they handle expensive, expensive things? Because maybe you shouldn't future proof something. If you think there's a good chance they lose or break that phone in the first year, um, then maybe go down. I think my, my general advice on, and this doesn't have to just come to tech,

it just seems to happen with tech, is if you're buying something for somebody who that is like a big hobby of theirs, if your kid is watching a lot of tech videos and they really want a phone and they're asking for a Snapdragon 888, it probably means they're passionate about it. I think if you get them whatever, but make sure that it's a decision that you took the time to research and you can explain to them the reason as to why you made that purchase option they should i would hope at least appreciate how much effort you put into doing the research and going that and then you guys can have a discussion over why you decided not to go with a snapdragon 88 hopefully it's not just because we told you on Waveform not to do it.

Hopefully there's a real like, hey, the 765G is pretty good for this price. And you know, this is your first smartphone. Let's see how well you handle it. Then we'll look at the 888. Did you ever make a PowerPoint for why you should get something as a kid? I did not.

I definitely made up like weird thing reasons in my head as to why i deserved it i'm sure my parents laughed at me but not powerpoint but i feel like you've kind of told this story i i have there almost everything i've ever used on the channel i've bought myself but one very early thing that i didn't buy, I got as a gift. The whole year I got a Canon T2i and I had a kit lens and I loved everything about this thing, but I wanted a prime and I wanted a fast lens. And there was this nifty 50, 98 bucks. And I was like, you know what? It's almost Christmas. I think I might be able to get this lens for Christmas. I think I can pull this off. And I had this whole bullet point list of like why this lens was great.

F1.8, mom. I'm never going to get another F1.8 lens. This is a big deal. This lens was like, you know, it was fast autofocus. There's all these great things about why I wanted it. Presented all this stuff. I got a nice polite nod about, oh, that's nice. And then I got it from Santa Claus for Christmas.

So that was the greatest day of my life. Everything else I've ever gotten for the channel, I've put all of my hard work and blood, sweat, and tears into. But that lens, I did the PowerPoint work for that one. That was worth it. I think there's also hard advice for us to give because neither of us have kids that we have to buy stuff for. I'm sure it's very much uh relevant to your context matters but um yeah i don't think you need to get them in

s sd88 don't tell them we told you that and uh good luck all right sean just says 2021 frankenstein phone question mark i think it's been a minute since I actually tweeted or shared all my favorite pieces. You know how I'll go like, oh, screen from this phone, battery from this phone. Let's do that. Let's do that again. It's been a long year, so maybe we did it in 2020, but we're going to do it again. So, okay. Are we including the S21 lineup?

Yeah, whatever you want. Everything that's already out. So, if I start with screen, I'm going to go S21 Ultra display. I want that 120 hertz, of course. But it's variable refresh rate. It's 1440p. It goes up to 120 hertz. It's pretty great.

It's curved. It's curved a tiny bit over the edges. I'm okay with the level of curve now. So I'm starting with that screen. But you know what? I would shrink it a little bit. I would chop off a little bit because it's it's a huge phone and i think a lot of people don't realize how big that phone is give me that screen but at like a 6.3 inch clip 6.3 so that's closer to like regular s21 exactly okay so you just want the bigger screen

in the s21 but i'm, do you want the same cameras, or do you want a different set of cameras? I'm gonna go with a different set of cameras. Okay. So this is where it gets kind of complicated, because I end up pulling from different phones for different cameras. Do it, do it, get this.

No one said this has to be a neat Frankenstein. Exactly, it doesn't have to be possible at all either. Give me the pixel fives main camera the s21 ultra's zoom cameras and the iphone's video cameras see but that's the weird thing is they're this some of those are the same right yeah the video cameras what if what if it was like just the video processing basically yeah i think i have iphone yeah a previous version of this i was like give me the pixels cameras but with iphone's video process or what if there were iphone's cameras

but with pixel with google's photo processing that could work too right i think that would be pretty solid yeah the reason i just don't know i don't want to lean too hard on that camera because it's so old at this point like that old hardware the pixels main camera i really like their image processing and i think it makes up for barely that old that old chip but if you put all of samsung's cameras hardware wise and pixels image processing i would i'd probably take that that would be amazing. That would be amazing. So I would go with that. While we're at it, I'm just going to go Google Play Edition on the software. I don't think there's any question that's still my favorite flavor of Android at this point.

I'm not going to go iPhone with it. I still like to customize stuff. Battery, honestly, there's a bunch of options that could work here. Whatever's the biggest. Yeah, I guess like a 5,000... I mean, honestly, the battery here, but there's a bunch of options that could work here whatever's the biggest yeah i guess like uh 5 000 i mean honestly the battery here but there's also the fast charging part and wireless charging and all the other experiences um i might i might just end up building a google play edition s21 ultra to be honest the way i'm looking at the list in a smaller s20 yeah exactly that might be it camera module would be like the size of the phone. It would be half the phone, but that's my priorities.

I think that's where I land. Give me that battery, fast charging, IP68, all that stuff. Just give me the Google software experience that I know and love. Give me the image processing from the Pixel. And not too crazy of a finding this time. Yeah, that's not. I was hoping for a little more. What would you do with yours?

I would do... I have no idea. I was going to try and make some really bad joke of the Mate X screen with also the flip form factor, but that just got real not funny. I want an LG wing with the battery of a BlackBerry Bold.

I want the LG wing, but it can rotate 360 degrees and also be a fidget spinner. I kind of like your thought process of better image process. I mean, because if you do Google image processing on better hardware like Samsung's, you could potentially get the edge detection with the lens emulation fall off. Yeah. Yeah. See? Phone of the lens emulation fall off. Yeah.

Yeah. See? Phone of the year. They should have done it. It's been decided already. They should have done it. Yeah, they really need to license that. Or is it just because they've,

is it so good because they've been using the exact same camera hardware for so long? It's gotta be that. Man, this podcast really makes me realize very obvious things that I've never noticed. But when I say it out loud, it's like, oh, that's why. Yeah. Huh.

Fun. I'm not even going to do a Frankenstein. Honestly, I kind of think that's 21 is a great phone. It is a great phone. For a lot of different reasons. Yeah. And it's kind of just everything I would do. Maybe a larger battery so I just don't have to charge for a whole weekend.

But yeah, other than that, great phone. Okay, I have a fun one. I haven't talked about this much yet, but Tim says, when do we think we're gonna see true over-the-air charging, like the Xiaomi Mi Air concept, go fully mainstream? So okay, let me just explain what he's talking about for those who haven't seen it.

So Xiaomi, big smartphone manufacturer, put out a video that they're officially working on this truly, truly wireless charging where your phone can be anywhere in a room as long as this small mini fridge sized device is sitting somewhere near the middle of the room and it will beam a millimeter wave like energy stream basically particles directly at your phone it will track your phone around the room and will always keep it charged so you can have your phone in your pocket on your desk you can be using it you can leave the room leave the phone in there come back it will always be beaming battery at your phone cool now love the concept if you read the fine print they they're saying this is aimed to work at

five watts, which is the first, I mean, it's not a red flag, but obviously it's super difficult to make this tech work. And five watts is going to feel really slow on a big battery. That's for context, the old slow bricks for that are included with the iPhone were five watts. So not super fast, not extremely efficient, but I think we just love the idea of not having to ever worry about battery life. I think that's the real thing we're into here. Okay. I'll talk about what you just said first, but I I'm very excited to talk about this for a bunch of random reasons. Um, five watt, I'm, I think it is okay to go down in charging speed the more convenient the charging becomes so in general fastest speeds are generally through a plug second fastest speeds are through wireless charging and then now wireless wireless charging will be the slowest like i don't care

if my wireless charger is only charging at 10 watts because i'm probably mostly just tossing it on overnight i can use it so often that i don't need it to be like a warp charge where i'm just like plugging it in and being like come on i got 15 minutes to get as much battery in here as possible um i do see it being a problem if you are somebody who's just laser focused on your phone for 10 hours in the room and you're probably chewing battery faster than five watts might be putting it in i mean tiktok binge or something like that that could be a problem but that seems so minute that like if a phone is in a room it's charging who cares if it's five watts it's just going to always be charging that sounds awesome um this whole technology though is it's kind of wild i wasn't expecting it, but we did have this really interesting moment

when this company called Figures claimed that they had invented this phone or this wireless charging technology two years ago, and we tried so hard to get it from them, and I think they wiped their website of any mentions of it. Yeah, that never existed for sure. That was hilarious. And then my other thing is if this comes out, the amount of conspiracy videos,

if we see what people are talking about with 5G, I cannot imagine the stories people are going to create. That's definitely true. What we really do know about this tech right now is it's millimeter wave. It's Wi-Fi. It's going to work fundamentally the same way as like if I was airdropping you something across the room. Okay.

There's already millimeter wave tech out there. It's just like people, and it's also a millimeter wide band of it going straight to your phone. So, yeah, the question is just how comfortable are people going to be with this like mystery tech? They don't know how it works yet. But yeah, I don't know if the question, so the question to get back to your tweet is, when will this be mainstream? It's going to be a very long, I'm talking like years and years and years before this is anywhere near considered possibly going mainstream. I love the idea of it being mainstream because then you don't need 5,000 milliamp hour batteries in phones.

You need 100 milliamp hour batteries and you have one of these in your car and in your workplace, in the screen above your, you know, the rafters above your desk at work. Like it's just always charging everywhere you go. I guess it'll be interesting how many devices can it do at a time.

I'm assuming it can do essentially unlimited. Can you put it in a Starbucks and everyone's phone's charging in Starbucks when you hop in? But yeah. So to get an attempt at a timetable here, what do you think will be mainstream first? Wireless wireless charging or 8K televisions in people's houses 8k television people's houses yeah yeah i think i'd agree with that but that just shows you how far away we are exactly i i think 8k tvs in people's houses is like at least 10 7 8 9 years away at the beginning of the wave i would say the fact that i just upgraded my in-laws tv to 4k means i think we're officially

at the 4k as being pretty commonplace in a household. That's a good level. And it was like 300 bucks for 50 inch Samsung 4K TV. I can't believe how much TVs have gone down. Last question. As a professional ultimate Frisbee player, how good are you at KanJam? Yeah, I am. So I'm better than average than average okay but against other ultimate players i'm like i'm average okay first of all can jam if you're not sure is a backyard game with a frisbee and two almost trash cans with a slot in it and you each have a team you stand opposite of each other you try and get the disc inside the can by jamming it which is like you throw the disc you try and get it over it and your partner tries to slap it in um it's a really

simple backyard game but i don't think people i also am a frisbee player i don't think people realize when we play we're playing against ultimate players so it's hard to judge what our level is at um i played a lot in college and we played a lot at high tide which is the spring spring break tournament and my partner and i went i jason might call me out for this but i think we went undefeated yeah i think we went undefeated against everyone else on the team okay so me and jason are pretty good but that's it that's against our team so that's our that's our measuring stick i don't know about other ultimate club players. It's funny because I have gone to a barbecue or two that has Can Gym but aren't Frisbee players,

and everyone gets discouraged very quickly when the two ultimate players are playing against people who don't. They team up, and you just go down pretty quick. You have to break up that team. You, ultimate player, play with mom. Some other ultimate player plays with somebody else. Then you're playing against each other. It's a little more fun. Yeah, don't be that person that ruins a backyard game

just because you take it too seriously. Exactly. I think that's it. Yeah. We'll end it there. That was fun. All right. Well, we'll do Q&As more often.

I think the plan is leave a little more time for Q&As. We're recording this a few hours after we ask our questions, but we leave a little more time to come up with like maybe a topic for q and a's yeah we only talk about one thing and then we can get really focused and well that's where we get into the weeds and we have the most fun with it either way hope you enjoyed this chat about s21 mate xs and all the rest of the stuff we chatted about in the q and a section thanks for listening catch you guys in the next one waveform is brought to you in part with Studio 71 and our intro outro music was created by Cameron Barlow.