Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Galaxy S24 and Vision Pro are Here!

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David go right into Samsung Unpacked which happened right before we sat down to record. After that, Marques and David talk about their latest demo with the Apple Vision Pro and give some last-minute hands-on impressions before pre-orders begin. After that, we talk about the ongoing Apple Watch ban situation and some Amazon/OpenAI weirdness that happened before wrapping it all up with some trivia. Enjoy! Links: Samsung Galaxy S24 Impressions video: https://bit.ly/3S7mzmo Apple Bood Oxygen sensor news: https://bit.ly/3SmdWG3 Amazon + OpenAI policy: https://bit.ly/3Hn7Miy Shop products mentioned: Samsung S24 Ultra: https://geni.us/aHRL01 Samsung S24/S24+: https://geni.us/cSqU Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. All right, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.

I'm Andrew. And I'm David. And, you know, in January, usually there's a CES and then a little bit of a lull. This January 2024, we've decided, not that we decided, but it's become very clear. Collectively. It's become very clear that there is no lull. We are straight into the thick of it. Techuary.

Sorry, no. Delete that. Delete that part. No, but we do have a lot to talk about. We had Samsung unpacked officially this week. This is the week of Apple Vision Pro pre-orders, and we got to experience it again, and we have some more things to talk about.

And then there's a bunch of other quick hits that we'll get into in a second. But I think we should talk with the new big smartphones that got announced from Samsung. So let's jump into Unpacked, shall we? Yeah. So Galaxy S24 series is the main thing. There was also briefly a teaser for a ring. Very briefly.

A smart ring. Like a three-second animation of a circle on the screen. And that was basically all we got. Yeah. Is Samsung expecting us to just like forget about

the Bixby speaker or like just pretend that never got announced at all? I guess that's never happening but you know they're working on something new

and that's a ring and I'm just going to put that to the side because we don't know anything about it. No date, no price, no release, no features, no nothing. But we do have the phones s24 s24 plus and s24 ultra the easy take is wow they look the same as last year but the second you look further into what

they do there is a lot there so i'll just like i'll just go super high level then we can dive into maybe some more interesting stuff so the phones start at eight hundred dollars a thousand dollars and thirteen hundred dollars respectively uh all of the screens are totally flat with no curved edges and they're all slightly uh thinner bezels um i'm really happy about the totally flat ultra um they are running snapdragon 8 gen 3 across the board they have 2600 nit displays across the board and actually the plus phone got upgraded to quad hd as well wait real quick yeah is there an exynos version not that we've been talked about there wasn't one last year either there wasn't one at all no they got yeah all new snapdragon yeah and the edges of all these phones are all very much more flat the ultra has this new titanium rail material.

I wonder where I've heard that before. But there is also... Apple invented titanium. Yeah, of course. That's what we're all on the same page about. But no, we get these super flat sides with the S24 and Plus that look exactly like the iPhone. And I didn't want to say it in the video

because sometimes people say that just too freely. Oh, they copied the iPhone. It looks just like the iPhone. But then you hold up the phone and to say it in the video because sometimes people say that just too freely. Oh, they copied the iPhone. It looks just like the iPhone. But then you hold up the phone and look at it from the side and it looks exactly like the iPhone. Besides the camera. The camera is the only thing that differentiates. Yeah, I'm just talking about the sides. Yeah.

The way they handle the sides. Yeah, yeah. It's just like the iPhone. Fine. Cool. New colors. It looks great. It looks good.

I love it. It looks really good. I was happy about the square sides of the iPhone when they did that, and I'm happy about these. But most of the changes, most of the new interesting features with this phone, as predicted from the last Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 phone that I reviewed, are in the software department

and a lot of them are AI related. And they're really quite interesting. I'm particularly happy for Google of just like getting rid of their pixel division and merging with Samsung. He really felt very googly that presentation. I mean, from the presentation, the stuff they talked about, the actual phones and the hardware was minimal. That was a software presentation that felt like Google IO. Yeah. And then like, here's this S24 lineup tossed in there somewhere. Yeah, a lot of good Google stuff.

Let's start with the real-time voice translations, because that's where they started too. I got to try this, and honestly, it seemed like it worked really well. Basically, you get on the phone, you have a downloaded voice pack. It's like a language pack. It's like 1 to 500 megabytes for a language. You download it before the phone call and then it will give you a live

voice transcription of what the person is saying to you in whatever language. So let's say you download the Korean pack. You call someone. They're speaking Korean. They say what they want to say in Korean. You hear an English voice saying what they were saying. Then you talk back to them in English assuming you speak English and it

voices what you said back to them in Korean. And you speak english and it voices what you said back to them in korean right and it was smooth and it looked like it worked really well i thought that was pretty cool and just confirming it is waiting till the entire thing that is said is finished and then starting the translation uh somewhat if you pause it will start talking okay um can you continue to talk to it because like yeah one there are going to be people i understand if you pause it will start talking okay um can you continue to talk because like yeah one there are going to be people i understand if you're doing very quick questions like one to two sentences pause translation pause but that's a very cut and dry like good sample or like experiment for it but that's not how conversations there's also two options on the phone you can have them

hear your voice and then hear the translation or you can just have them not hear your voice at all and only hear the translation so there's just very long pauses there's just long pauses between okay so you either hear double of everything sort of in two different languages or you hear pause and then the translation which the double of everything is what we're kind of used to when we see presentations with people in other languages yeah i don't know how people are going to feel about that over the phone. Every conversation is going to take twice as long. Yeah. But if you can understand it, I'm fine with that.

I just wonder if somebody is talking for like five straight minutes, how does the translation aspect, or is this not what that's supposed to be? They said keep in touch with your friends. So I'm assuming that means a phone call where you actually have a conversation with somebody. Yeah. I would like to stress test that. Yeah. i think they try to come up with real world examples i think it's a useful tool i just don't have that many conversations with people who do not speak a single word of english right i don't think catching up with my friends involves yes

that level of translation usually so it's probably more like i'm in a foreign country or i'm calling someone who i've never called before and i just need them to understand what I'm asking for. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's just convenient for that. It feels way more like a tool. Like you said, not like not for fun, not for. Yeah. If you were probably really good friends with somebody and catching up with them, you probably understand certain amounts of language to communicate with them in that process.

Yeah. They leaned into the translation stuff a lot. communicate with them in that process yeah they leaned into the translation stuff a lot um i think transformers are actually specifically good at translation because of the context understanding and they showed off that translation app that is basically google translate almost exactly except it has a different ui and it actually is it looked fairly smart it shows like it has your ui on one side and then it flips the UI for the other person. So it's sort of like what Google is doing with the pixel fold where there's a UI on the other screen. But I feel like this is more natural.

Yeah. I'm also always for some reason live translation and we have to get there eventually. But it's felt like the kiss of death on some products in the last five years. Remember the OG pixel buds were like their whole thing was yeah it's gonna live translate in your ear yeah that was dead i'm did the surface not also have a fold over and maybe i'm wrong on that one but i feel like you've heard about live translations for a very long time and have not you also have to define live you know fair it's like yeah if if the other person could speak and in real time it was able to translate their voice in their voice then that would i would consider a live translation wild and i feel like they could get to that point at some point because if it had if there's an ai

voice map of you which like apple is already letting you do then being able to overlay that over what you're saying should be not that big of a leap. So maybe in the next few years. Maybe. Going out, not coming in though. Because then you would have to download the voice map of every single person you ever talked to. Yeah. It would be like, yeah.

Either way. Every person would have to have their own voice map. Yeah. Which maybe you have them do that during setup or when you're doing the hey Google thing, it just maps your voice from there. Sorry, everyone whose voice just lit up. You're usually really good at saying hey g instead also i'm usually the one messing everyone yell at david today i know i'm just bleep it just i pushed that conversation possibly too far i think it's a cool tool if it works i mean i hope it works because i'm waiting for the

one that seems like it works very well yeah um something i think we'll probably use a little bit more is uh some of the i mean there's a couple other things like the notes app can straighten up your handwriting and the new voice uh voice memos what is it called it's the voice recorder app transcripts it does a lot of the same stuff google's does now it has speaker individual speaker detection it can summarize it all that sort of stuff google's done since like the pixel 4 yeah lots of that stuff yeah i think there's notes i just want to go notes before you get past it there was the like note formatting like ai to note format and notes summarize so like if you just similar to like probably what we do at a lot of these events you're just typing everything you see really fast but then it can give you headers and bullet points based on everything you type

and just organize it out better i actually think that's kind of man so i do like that yeah yeah that i mean writing the podcast every week and then if it could do that for me it would actually make my life i just gotta set up the phone right next to the computer just let it listen to the keynote and then hit summarize boom easy no then but the big things i think are like photo editing and Google search on this phone. The photo editing is very Google-like. It looks just like the Pixel. So there's some photo editing features where you can retouch a photo. You can remove reflections.

You can fix shadows, things like that. That's in the regular editor. And then there's a magic editor button with the little stars that looks exactly like the Pixel's magic editor where you click it. But the logo is different. That's the weird thing. A slightly different logo. It feels like it's using,

like this is probably using the Snapdragon Gen 3 technology because most of the changes from Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 to Gen 3 were just AI ML stuff. So it's very strange that Samsung's interweaving all of these like Google branded features with things that Google also does with tensor but it's branding it as galaxy AI yeah it's just awkward it is kind of strange yeah it did feel like there's a ton of

Google stuff they could have just said it was magic editor like they already do all the stuff with Google but maybe they want to keep that they want it to be a samsung feeling thing i guess but yeah you can literally do the same exact thing that you can on the pixel which is actually maybe even more you can circle a subject move it around a frame erase the background erase the whatever you want and it edits the photo for you it adds a tinygenerated indicator watermark to the bottom left corner, which you can then erase with AI. Just pointing that out. That will add another watermark in the same place.

True, true. But you could just crop it. You can crop it. You can just crop it. But yeah, the Magic Editor doesn't seem to have any restrictions. I played with this for a few seconds. It has this cool animation,

and it does the moving things around. I couldn't get it to trip up like I could Google's. I could get Google's to go, this is against our terms in the review video. Google's trips up a lot. Yeah. It tried to move me like up higher up, like I was jumping higher or something. And it said, it wouldn't let you do that. It wouldn't let me do that. In some of the things that felt like it's just straight from the commercial, it wouldn't let me do some of that stuff. Interesting. Samsung's did not once hesitate to do anything I asked of it in the couple minutes that I played with it. We'll get the phones and we'll test them more, but I just want to note that.

It's interesting. But then the other thing is Google Search. Google Search is better on this phone than it is on a Pixel. Is that crazy to say? We don't... Is this... Okay, so the feature's called Circle to Search.

Is it exclusive to Samsung phones for now? I think they never said it is exclusively on the Samsung, but they also said they brought, like, that they were partnering with Google, and then it was, like, just Google talking about it for a while, including talking about Google Cloud and Gemini. And then at the end, they were like, together, us and Google with deep collaboration have brought this to life. But I didn't see any of the Samsung collaboration, except that it was in the Samsung keynote and on the phone.

Do you want to talk about what Circle of Search is? Yeah, it's the coolest thing, I thought. Yeah, so picture your home buttons at the bottom of the screen or even the gesture bar. And you're doing something in some app. You see a frame in a video with a cool dress or you see a picture of something that you think is cool. All you do is you long press the home button or the gesture bar. And then this sort of sparkly UI comes up.

And you just tap or search or circle whatever you want to search. And you just immediately Google searched that image. So it might remind you of google lens uh it's looking at whatever's on your screen cropping it to the way you cropped it sending that out as google search and returning a search on that image for you super useful it's also very fast yeah like they were showing it in the presentation it was really fast when i was trying it in real life it was also shockingly fast. So I thought that was cool.

Yeah. And it's just really convenient just being able to, instead of, you know, taking a screenshot and then uploading that screenshot to Google or to Google Lens or something like that, you just do it on the fly. You never even leave the app. You can search something and then just swipe it away

and it's gone. Super good. You can also ask questions about things that are on your screen, which is cool. I think that's super useful. And that is Gemini Mini at work because it's a multimodal functionality. Super good stuff. I honestly thought it was awesome.

It's so simple. Like we said, it's just Lens and we were all used to taking screenshots of things online, but just like write in whatever app or whatever you're doing, pull it up, circle it. It searches. That's awesome. I think that's really really cool i think every time there's a global functionality it's always useful like on the pixel if you yeah open the multitasking window it allows you to interact with any text or image in

any app in the multitasking view only so if you're in the app itself you can't like there there's text that sometimes can't be highlighted and it won't let you highlight it but as soon as you open multitasking you can highlight the text in that window and so that was like a global functionality that they added to pixel to android like probably 12 or 13 and so having um more global functionality where it's like opening a submit a sub window that's doing the google search for you on anything that you circle yeah it's like very cool and also the key is it's only what you're circling yeah so do you remember google now on tap yeah no so google now on tap on like the pixel four or five or whatever it was yeah they got you basically i think it was the same thing you yeah you long press the home button and it takes everything on your screen and it pulls up some cards for you to like google search or further explore whatever's on your

screen yeah so if you have a picture or you're standing in front of a statue or you have a picture of a statue and you long press home it'll show you where the statue might be maybe a wikipedia article maybe a youtube video about it but it's just everything on your screen this is an even better version of that you just you would just circle the statue and it would show you exactly what you wanted to know about that statue without interrupting whatever app you're in, whether it's a browser or the gallery or whatever.

I think it's pretty sick. Can I say something? Yeah. I really wanted to do a trivia question about the statues in the unpacked thing because I thought that'd be funny. And none of them were real statues. No.

But I learned that by trying to google lens each one of them to see and it was just like bro i can't find anything i i have to say i think in the event one of the ways they were talking about like the some of these features and the camera zooms was that someone was in like an art gallery and they were taking photos a lot of things but i realized all the things they were editing were not actual paintings because I'm sure they didn't want to make any changes to real paintings and disrupt, not even just copyrighted, but like take away from the artist or anything like that. So that's not surprising now that all of the statues. No, no, no. The paintings are real paintings.

Not all of them. Not the ones where they did like AI changing to things. Oh, I forgot the Mona Lisa thing. Yeah, like they had the Mona Lisa and they had a couple talking in the beginning but all they did was make them talk yeah the talking ones were the things they edited somebody here was like why are they editing that i was like i'm pretty sure that is a painting that they made specifically for this to not yeah disrespect the mona lisa look like expanded what if we what if we threw the clarity slider up on the mona l Remastered the Mona Lisa with my Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra. It's better than the original.

No, they're powerful phones. They have a lot of really solid features. Yeah, they also had this Android Auto feature that I couldn't tell if that was exclusive or not either. It felt really weird to showcase in a Samsung event because they didn't show the phone. Because that was like one UI, but on your Android Auto screen. It looked different from the normal Android Auto.

It looked like a Samsung version of it just for this phone. So is that their version of doing what CarPlay does where it gets mapped to your car except it gets mapped to your phone? It's just to your phone, yeah, I guess so. phone it's just to your phone yeah i guess so there was a feature in there i did really like which is if you are navigating somewhere and you get a text message from someone that you know has an address when it reads it out loud one of the buttons will be a navigate button because like in android auto it'll only voice text out loud and then you can't copy that into like your google maps but this time you just hit a button you know the text has a new address like if you were to change an address on me and i just press one button and i'm navigating it definitely feels like google's approach to being in your car is your phone is the central hub of everything

and apple is sort of like maybe carplay is in the car itself maybe we make a car i don't know yeah yeah uh other than that you know a couple minor other updates i will actually okay batteries are bigger slightly yeah uh at least in the smaller s24 and s24 plus yeah screen sizes like you said just a little bit bigger uh seven years of security updates right and seven generations of Android updates. Yeah. Nice. Pretty impressive. This feels, again, the more I think about this,

the more it kind of feels like the iPhone of Android type thing that I've probably said like a year or two ago about Samsung flagship phones, which is they have the most software updates of any Android phone. They feel like they have the most features. They have more Google features than some of the Google phones at this point although they don't have like call screening and some of the pixel exclusive stuff um they might not call it night sight but they sure do have nightography just as many buzzword worthy uh features and then of course there's just more hardware options you can get an ultra phone with a new 5x telephoto lens instead of 10x, but it's a 50 megapixel 5x, so you can crop in to 10x zoom and possibly get the same quality.

Did you see Mr. Beast use it? He was 100 feet in the air, bro. Well, he didn't use the camera 100 feet in the air. That Feastival Bar looked incredible. Hashtag not sponsored. Well played, Jimmy. Hashtag real life scenario. Well played, Jimmy.

I did respect that they actually acknowledged that the 3x to 10x distance was way too big um we've been talking about that for a couple years now with the ultra phones and they were like yeah you know 3x going to 10x is kind of tight so we decided to add a 5x 50 megapixel camera so you can crop into the center portion and still get the 10x zoom you can still zoom all the way to 100x in case you were wondering. Yeah. You can do it. You can still do it.

No one's telling you you should do it, but you can still do it if you want to. No one is telling you you should use the 200 megapixel mode on the main camera either. Do not do that. Don't even worry about that button. Yeah. Don't even worry about it. Part of the AI thing that was disturbing to me,

that seemed like it was in Google Messages. I think that Samsungsung now uses google messages by default on their phones like a skinned version of it uh slightly i think it's mostly just google messages um yeah with like a little sheen over the top yeah yeah aesthetically anyway but they had like a you could change the tone of a message to map match a specific vibe that wasn't more than just messages right because couldn't because like the example they showed was something we talked about at io last year which was like make the tone of this like a social post right through hashtags yeah which they also showed

in this keynote yeah okay that's not what you're talking about uh no they had a separate section for the messages okay but i do want to talk about that as well they just had a whole section that was like do you need to write a social post but don't want to use one percent of your brain type like random words and then have it generate a social post for you and it uses like six hashtags which for some reason all large language models think that social posts have to have hashtags even if you ask chat gbt to write a social post, it'll add like hashtag freak out Friday, hashtag Thursday Thursday. It's what the brands want.

O-O-T-D, Sigma Grindsalt. Nobody uses hashtags. Also, who wants to live in a world where all of the social media that you're consuming are written by AI? That's the thing. It's kind of along the same lines of like GPT written blog posts yeah where

eventually you have so many ai written blog posts that your ai is trained on blog posts and it's like okay now we have social posts yeah and yes to me as a content creator maybe i might want some help writing them but now if all the social posts are ai generated yeah then they're going to continue to think that that's how all social posts yeah then they're going to continue to think that that's how all social posts should look we're going to talk about something kind of related to this in e-commerce later on in the podcast but it just reminded me of it with ai writing way too many things that we read on the internet right now um but yeah the can we make an can you make a separate twitter profile that is just every time you tweet something you then take that and make chat gpt make it a

social version and have an the alternate ai version of marquez online it's gonna be so much worse that'll be so funny that's already made someone just subscribers on x how about that have you guys heard of dead internet theory no it's it's this theory that like most of the Internet by the late 2010s was created mostly by bots. And so most of the things that we're consuming are just not even people. And there's like not even as there's not nearly as many people actually on the Internet that are writing the stuff as we think. I would feel a lot better if that were true. I feel like the stuff I was reading wasn't real. Becoming true.

Yeah. Yeah. I was. Yeah. That'm not. I was. That is not a real person. That is AI. I guess so much of what I consume is videos that I don't have that issue yet. Yet. You don't think.

Later this year. Just wait. Yet. Yeah. Will Smith eating spaghetti? It's just hard when like if most of the content is being generated by AI and then we're having the AI summarize all of the AI generated content for us then what are we consuming

at the end of the day? Get off your phone and go touch some grass. Everything is a remix. Go touch some AI generated grass. Wait till you finish the entirety of the waveform episode and then go touch grass. Or do it while listening. Sure. With your new headphones. I don't know there's no other

products you're really no galaxy but it's just the three phones yeah no that's it it's s24 s24 plus and s24 ultra i we should be testing these phones pretty soon i would love to try the s24 because there's you say i think i might buy it i think i might get it from the zen phone nine i like the zen phone a lot i like the size of it so i want something that is also still pretty small because i would try to like go back to my regular pixel and i feel like i'm holding a tablet after using the zen phone um so the regular is 24 but my thing is is i'm probably the minority in this group where i like cases on a phone and there are just not enough there are not enough um accessories for the zenfone out there and i know samsung will have a bunch of good ones

you're about to case it up are we all going to caseless right now i've been caseless that's wild everybody caseless check i mean i'm caseless right now also wow i've been i don't want to be i throw i literally i miss just tossing my phone i have a terrible story once in um once in college it's not that long i was in college i was on a video call um and the bed was behind me and my bed is like in the corner of the room and i have like basically like brick walls and i sounds like my apartment had my i had a samsung phone in my hand and i went to look in the webcam feed to toss the phone backwards onto the bed behind me and and so i like looked to the side is this for a video or something no just you were just like i this sounds like a cool idea right now okay and i tossed it over my shoulder and because I hadn't looked the wide angle distortion made it look like

I had to throw a lot harder than I did so I threw the phone and it went straight over the bed and slammed into the wall and then slotted down behind the bed after hitting the wall still didn't crack oh wow I was gonna say I remember years ago you telling me this is the first phone or this is only the second phone

I've broken and you didn't tell that story yeah but that's why because it didn't break. But that's why, because it didn't break. It was fine. Not even that long ago, I went to catch the phone as I was dropping it, and I ended up backhanding it across the room. Have you ever done that? And it's this phone. This Pixel slid across so much hardwood.

It's still totally fine. Yeah. I appreciate that probably enough people listen to this that at least five people are like, I've done that before. I know what you're talking about. I've scratched my displays with keys and stuff, but I've never broken a display before. Really?

Yeah, I've never cracked a phone. I was taking one out of the DJI Mavic controller and just pulled it open too hard and it popped out of the USB-C thing and slammed on the pavement. Dang, that sounds like a crack. Yeah. Sorry. Anyway. I and slammed on the pavement underneath. Dang, that sounds like a crack. Yeah. Sorry.

Anyway. I'm excited for the S24. I'm legitimately excited for it. I actually think the flat screen and the flat rails are a great design. What color are you getting? I'll put a case on it, so I don't care. Are you going to upgrade from the 128 gig base?

No. I probably should, because I'm taking a million baby pictures now. Yeah, it's a lot of high res, 50 megapixels. It's like Steve Carell in The Office where he has seven phones for all of his children. 200 megapixel baby photos. AI, take this baby photo for me. No, take it in spatial videos.

Okay, we should take a break. Don't do that. Please don't do that. Daddy daddy we'll talk about eyesight in a second too but let's take a quick break we have a lot of vision pro stuff and a lot of other uh quick hits to talk about so in the meantime trivia trivia dude dude, first question. The S24 finally has titanium. We've all been waiting for it. They should have done jade or something. That would have been cooler. Straight glass? No, jade.

Isn't jade like a rock? It's a mineral, right? It's the green one. Those are two different things, I'm sure. Oh, almost definitely. You could make the whole phone out of rhodium. What's rhodium? It's the ingredient in catalytic converters.

I said ingredient, but... Just stealing up catalytic converters. A pinch of rhodium. You're making phones for free. I have a conspiracy theory that Samsung is going around and stealing everyone's catalytic converters for the phones. Wait, why? Putting them in phones? If they made the phones out's catalytic converters for the phones. Wait, why? Putting them in phones?

Well, if they made the phones out of catalytic converter material. Which I'm proposing, just so we're clear. What atomic number is titanium on the periodic table? T-I? Texas Instruments? Those are the letters. I was going to ask that, and then I was like, that's too easy.

Someone has to know, and of course, the first thing you say is T-I. But none of us know the number, though. Yeah, T-I. T-I the rapper, yeah. T-I the rapper yeah tip more like titani yum am i right no you're not i think you're right thanks well i'll think of a number at some point answers will be at the end of the podcast like usual we'll think about it we'll be right back I am so dreading groceries this week. Why? You can skip it. Oh, what? Just like that? Just like that.

How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats? Skippable. Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices? Uh, nope. You're on your own there could have skipped

it should have skipped it skip to the good part and get groceries meals and more delivered right to your door on skip all right welcome back we we meaning me and david collectively collectively we together david and i have tried the Vision Pro a couple of times now most recently this week yes this was my fourth time trying the Vision Pro third time this is your third time using the Vision Pro this time we got to try some new things specifically it was never tried before not a lot of new things only a couple new things but some things we were curious about yeah keyboard safari a couple third-party apps the new head strap the new head strap so uh all of this we can talk about i just

want to sort of zoom all the way out to my fourth impression of of the headset now yeah which was okay my first impression genuine first impression and i made a video all about it which was like 15 minute long was like this is easily the most impressive vr headset i've ever worn it is incredibly crisp and clear very immersive the screens are amazing the eye tracking is phenomenal it's like magic uh the selection method when you just look at something and tap your fingers together it works super well it's super high-quality build. Like, this thing is amazing. It's a little heavy, but this is a phenomenal piece of technology,

and I can't wait to see what apps show up. And that demo was around 15 minutes. Yeah. Also, I can confirm they would not stop talking about it that trip. Right. That's exactly how they felt. That's when it first got announced when we first checked it out, right? Second time was, like, back in New York City. I remember it being amazing, but, okay, let's back in New York City. I remember it being amazing,

but okay, let's put the thing on again. I put it on again. I'm like, yeah, oh yeah, it's still really crisp. It's still really good. There's this new calibration process where you look at these different dots around the screen several times and it calibrates your eyes

and now you do the selection thing again. And yeah, you do this whole demo. Wow, the occlusion on my hands is really good. God, this thing is really heavy though. It is metal. I get why they make these things out of plastic. But, you know, aside from that, still pretty impressive piece of technology. Third time was me watching some of my own spatial videos and photos on the headset.

Right. I put the thing on. Yep, still heavy. Okay. But let's see. Let's look at spatial videos and photos. And you know, there's a kind of a sweet spot, like three to five feet away from the camera where the spatial effect is really strong and the 3d is really impressive. And so I kind of learned

that got to try some other apps and look at some big panoramas, which have this parallax effect. Oh yeah. But only 10 minutes in the headset, I'm like, this thing is heavy. I take it off. Fourth time I used the headset, which was this past week. This week, yeah. You do the fitting again, which is, it's kind of like this Face ID process.

You use two scans now. Two scans from an iPhone. It's simpler than Face ID. And you get the custom fitted headset. And this time they said, okay, we've got both straps here. Which one would you like to try? There's a solo solo loop one and then there's like this dual band one which puts more of the weight on top of your head i said let's try the dual band one and we put it on top

i adjusted the straps and everything immediately i'm like jesus this is a heavy headset yeah this thing is heavy i've had it on for 12 seconds this is very heavy okay let's get into it this time what do we do we checked out safari so we got to scroll through websites you can pinch in zoom and move windows around we got to use the keyboard type on the keyboard that was interesting both the most impressive and least impressive part to me yeah i'll explain yeah ready yeah there's two ways to type on the keyboard first way is you enter the URL bar or whatever, and a virtual keyboard pops up, and you literally poke in the air on a virtual keyboard.

Yeah. There's no feedback. But the amazing thing about this input method, even though it's incredibly slow, is that it's not like the depth of where the keys are and where you think your finger is going to be when it's pressing on the key. Often when you're using virtual floating keyboards and other VR headsets and stuff, you kind of poke through the keys until they register. But this one, you look and you're like, okay, I'm touching the top of the key. And if you move your finger down at all, it starts to press the key down.

It feels one-to- one with where your fingers are. Even though you can't feel it. Even though you can't feel it. Yeah. But there is like a like reaction to it rather than just it light up. Yeah. You see the key moving down. And I think there may even be a sound.

I think so. And it's not it's not binary where it's like as soon as you touch it, it's like in a downward position. It can flex like a regular key on a keyboard. It's pretty like it has an actuation point yeah sure yeah but that's only one way to type yeah the other way you can type is if you just look at the letter and touch your fingers together yeah and then look at the next letter and touch your fingers together and i typed so fast with the second method it's crazy did that give you a headache? Just like. I mean, I was trying to type fast. So like.

He's already looking at this. I was going a little bit nuts, but like I went in. Because in the poking type method, you can't really home row it because your fingers will overlap and it's kind of not that accurate. So you're poking. So it's like M-K h d dot c o m enter yeah but with the eye typing method i promise you i said m k b h d dot c o m enter and it was faster and it probably would look crazy if you saw my eyes and the way i was like looking around the keyboard i want to see a video of that it was sick i was typing so fast but honestly the the third and

final way is to just ask Siri. Up in the corner, you just look at the microphone and just start talking, and it just puts that in. That's probably the fastest way. That's probably the fastest way to do it. I want to see if I can type 100 words a minute using the keyboard. You cannot. No shot. I'm going to.

Zero percent chance. I will do it. No shot. By end of year. I'm giving you 60 as a target. And I think that's really... I'll make this a short. Yeah.

Is this the new typing test? I'm going to do monkey type on... In spatial. In spatial, yeah. You can fire up Safari and go right to the website. I'm going to try it. That's going to be the first thing to try. So they also had a section in the app drawer this time

that was apps made for Vision Pro. Yeah. And they had the one that they one of the ones that they showed us was a 3d modeling type of application where different companies can like throw different 3d models to show how stuff works so they showed a f1 car showed a 2023 alfa romeo f1 car exploded in a hundred percent scale in the room so i was like walking around. The tire was the size of a tire. The halo, you could pick it up with your hands

and it was the size of the regular halo. It was cool. The cool thing that was interesting about that is you would look at a part on the car and you would just move your hand, like you would pinch your hand and move it. And depending on what you were looking at, it would move the part that you wanted to move.

That sounds awesome. And you could scale them and look them around. And then there was another section where it showed like the part that you wanted to move yeah that sounds awesome and you could scale them and look them around and then there was another section where it showed like the airflow dynamics going over it i still very realistic 3d modeling and like architecture and stuff like that feels like an awesome way for like client like work and just is the vr world in general they've been doing that with vibes for a long yeah yeah i really think that's the prime estate for it. Lucid swore to me that that's how they reviewed the interiors of their cars, is by sitting in the car with the VR headset.

I think BMW said they did the same thing, but with the Vive way back in the day. Yeah. So we got to try that. It looked phenomenal, super high quality, very responsive. Yeah. There were also some media apps. So the Disney app. The Omega Capitalism app.

Super, super Disney. They built some experiences around like, okay, you want to go to the Marvel section of the app. Well, now you'll be on the Avengers rooftop with the shield next to you. And you'll have like the menu where it normally is, but you're in an environment that looks like it belongs. There's a Star Wars one too. I don't know if that's also Disney. Yeah, it is. So there's a Star Wars one where, again, you can watch a movie,

but if you look around, you're not in a theater, you're on a desert planet. You're in a Land Cruiser in Tatooine. Exactly. Uncle David. They had built some things for the Vision Pro experience that made it feel more native to Vision Pro instead of just a floating window,

like maybe someone who hasn't optimized a single thing in their app. So it was cool to see that type of stuff. And then lastly, what is, oh, we got to see EyeSight. Yes. We got to see EyeSight. It was... We got to see EyeSight. I had a lot of trouble not laughing at the guy

that was showing it to me. It was really difficult because they brought us into a separate room to talk to a guy that was showing it to me. It was really difficult because they brought us into a separate room to talk to a guy that was using EyeSight. To be clear, I don't think EyeSight has been working on a single other headset that we've been demoing. No.

I think this is the one that they do have EyeSight working on. I think it's been working, but they've just been hiding it because I think they are terrified of photos of EyeSight. Because notice that they let us take photos of ourself wearing the vision pro but not with the eyesight it was off that is like explicitly like we are not showing that to the public because we don't want people to laugh at it yeah it was weird they know it looks dumb i think yeah it was like one of the only things i've ever seen in an apple event get announced, and the whole place started laughing.

Like, that was just not, it did not hit like they wanted it to, I don't think. Theoretically, I think it makes at least sense. Yes, I agree. So, like, the idea I get. But here's how in person it looks. You look at the person, and the rest of their face is totally clear, and they've got the headset on, headset on and then their eyes are like kind of there, but they're really blurry. Yeah. And so you don't, you're not really looking at someone's eyes.

In the headset, I'm sure they think they're looking into your eyes, but you're looking at a blurry, weird look version of their eyes. Okay, fine. When they go into an environment or look at some media. Have a screen in front of them. Or have you occluded. Yeah. or look at some media. Have a screen in front of you. Or have you occluded.

Yeah. Instead of showing their eyes, it will show that like purple, blue, shimmery thing that we saw in the photos of us wearing it, which makes sense. So now the person looking at the headset wearer knows they can't see me. And if you're in the headset

and you look at the person through the window or whatever for long enough, it will create a little parting in the fog. And the occlusion on the outside with the eyes will also create a little parting in the purple fog. So now it's blurry eyes and purple fog. And if they have a window between them and you, there's a reflection, like a blue reflection

in their eyes on the headset. Oh, okay. There's so much small small detail yeah this feature i think the whole like like you have a window and you can have someone kind of appear through it so you're not like way too in the zone i think by the way amazing it i remember when we they put that at wwdc that's what i said in Vergecast thing is my favorite thing they did. It was a great idea. And like you said, everything about EyeSight makes perfect sense. It just looks so silly.

It looks crazy. Yeah. Now to top it all off, we finished this demo experience. I take the headset off. Oh my God, it's so heavy. It's the heaviest VR headset you'll ever wear. And that's not just the metal.

The battery isn't even on the headset. It's a cable that's wrapped around and behind you in your back pocket. Just the metal, the glass, the second display, there's a lot of compute. It's a heavy headset. And this is why I keep saying I think my favorite use case of this, still from what I've experienced, is going to be sitting back in a chair where my head is propped up and watching a movie on a plane give me the heavy headphones give me

the heavy headset and i just lean back and then i can watch the movie and not strain my neck because i'm not moving my neck what's that chair everyone has for like listening to records the herman miller chair i think so right i think ellis do you know that one um my grandpa had that chair that everyone uses to listen to records with like the footstool and uh yeah yeah that's gonna turn into the new vision pro vision pro headset just lean back i think dentist there's a lot of reactions to what I was talking about with the weight online. I don't, to be clear, I don't think it's a deal breaker. I just think it's, you're going to notice it very quickly.

And if you look at the people who have posted photos of themselves wearing it, everyone has one thing in common. Is it's pushing down right on the bone of your cheek, like right above your cheeks. And it's like pushing, you can see it in everyone's pictures. It's pushing them down because that's where most of the weight is sitting. We tried both of the bands. The solo loop, weirdly to me, and again, this is such a fast demo,

it was more comfortable for me, even though it felt even heavier. I think that's also true for me. And I had the dual loop on, the dual head strap on, and I tightened the top and then tightened the back and then tightened the top and then the back again, and I thought I got it nice and snug,

but it was kind of lifting from my cheeks, which made it feel lighter, but it was less. More pressure. Yeah, it was more pressure at the top and then less of a light seal at the bottom. So I actually preferred the solo loop band, if that makes sense. I think I did too. Okay, I Solo Loop band. Yeah. If that makes sense. I think I did too.

Okay, I have a question. Yeah. When you say it's heavy, can I get some sort of comparison? Like heavy like a helmet? Absolutely. You're wearing M50s right now, plastic headphones. Well, no, Sony MDRs. Or Sony, even better, plastic lightweight headphones.

Yeah. You've worn AirPods Max, right? Yes. It's that equivalent difference interesting so if you're not thinking about it you can wear it for 25 35 minutes and maybe never even notice and if the band's right on the top of your head perfectly and you're just sitting back listening to music fine but the second you move your head around or think about it or start to get that fatigue it wears way faster than a lightweight plastic for me i took it off

and my head hurt for a while yeah there's various levels of people getting like headaches i had like a light headache for sure yeah and i wore it for maybe 20 minutes 20 25 minutes yeah um my the most interesting thing for me because today the day that everyone's watching this and listening to it is the day that the pre-orders open it is which in the first batch they're apparently only going to be 60 to 80,000 units for launch day i think they're going to be impossible to get i think probably fast um but you really have to be okay with the fact that that's the case and then the other thing was that my favorite thing to do in the vision pro was looking at photos, especially like looking at panoramas, because like you said, there's sort of like this parallax effect. Seeing my photos

really huge in front of me in that fidelity is really amazing. I even enjoyed like watching the photos that they had taken of just like people and stuff. Oh, it was kind of fun to look at. Yeah. I don't know if that's a 3500 use case device and they don't have any first party apps that they are feeling like are a killer application that people should be spending 3500 on this thing for they're really really really leaning into developers to figure out why people should buy the vision pro because as it stands i do not see apple with an app that comes with the vision pro that i would say this is worth buying the vision pro pro 4 okay here's my theory you know how every time you get a new like computer or laptop from apple they give you

the classic like demos of okay here's the final the Final Cut demo. Here is the Safari demo. Here is the Blender demo. And you get to see what they think people will value most about that computer based on the demos and the stuff they show. With this one, I think the killer app right now is just media, just watching videos, photos and videos, Apple TV, even going in the browser, watching YouTube videos. I really, really hope there's a YouTube app at launch that lets me watch 360 videos and regular videos in a theater mode and stuff like that. It's the number one most impressive thing to do on that. I don't really want to spend a while browsing in Safari on a Vision Pro. It doesn't feel that much more fun. If I'm going to be in a

browser, they have a feature where for you using the Vision Pro and you look at your MacBook screen, additional screens will pop up. We didn't get to use that. But they said that that would be a thing in the launch. So I would probably try that just having additional monitors around you. But yeah, regular browsing in a Vision Pro, like it's not going to be a laptop replacement for me that also like that scenario seems to be what vr in general wants to get to is the like let's work this into your workflow even though we only have a two-hour battery life but besides the point of that plug it to the wall though okay yeah but like when you said before this the weight wasn't a deal breaker if you're going from like the first to the fourth time you're trying in,

every time it being heavy is getting more and more on your mind. I can't imagine that by the 10th time you pick it up to put it on your head and go, this is just, I don't feel like using this right now. It's going to be too heavy and putting it right back down. I totally get it. I think what it really does for me is it just restricts the amount of things that I want to do with it yeah so if there's a game i really like and i'm about to pick up the vision pro again i know that there's a finite amount of time i'm going to be playing this game yeah if i'm on a plane or if i'm going to sit down somewhere that doesn't have a headrest i don't

want to watch a movie i say it as somebody who like i'm very excited for this to come in and try it. I, the only Apple stuff I use is in the studio. I am not Apple anything. And I still think this thing looks really cool. I would never spend $3,500 of my own money on it, but I can't wait to try it. I think there's a lot of stuff in it. It seems like interactions are like revolutionary almost,

but the weight thing I, and like how they want it to be a work. And they, they talked about work stuff a lot there was a lot of stand at your desk here's a keyboard here's 3d modeling i just can't with how much you're already saying how heavy it is like it's going to be sitting on their desk like oh i'll use my i don't feel like this is the thing too is because it's it's 3500 and something that's 3500 that you're only going to use for like

five to ten minutes every few days the use case there is not there for most so then maybe we can consider it to have seven day battery life if you're never going to use it for more than like 20 minutes my theory my theory for the reason why it's 3500 and everything is they don't want people to buy it they don't want first generation people i think there's going to be people who are developers that buy it and they have it and then when friends come over and family come over they're like oh that's the thing let me try it we've all seen people's first reactions to vr when they put on like the oculus back in the day it's like magic yeah so that's the experience that apple wants for these in people's homes i agree and i feel like we've been saying

that for a long time like this feels like the developer version that they just don't want to say developer version but there are so many people out there that are going to buy this that aren't developers i wonder like why not make it developer version so you can actually make sure all the developers get it and there's going to be a ton of people who want to develop for this that it's going to get sold out they're not going to get it because they're offering it without it you just don't have the ability to look at it in the head you're not going to be able to do it as well if you don't get to test probably yeah i'm sure there are people out there who can i'm sure you can still develop for i'm not a developer but i'm sure if you're developing for it you would prefer to have one and there will be people who don't get

it yeah you can because the public in a virtual environment and like if you're developing on a phone you just have to simulate how people tap your phone, which is pretty easy with a mouse, but if you're doing the whole Vision Pro thing, there's a lot more to it. I think it's a lot more work. I'll say one more thing. What was I going to say about Vision Pro? I have one more.

Oh, okay. I had someone ask recently like, oh, what do you think? And I ended up just summarizing it. I summarized it as it's like a really expensive toy. Yes. You know? I just thought of it.

It's like when we went to Triple F. All those cars were really cool to play and, like, drive for, like, 10 minutes. But owning one is just not for the bank. That's true. That's a great analogy it's the law ferrari of vr headsets yeah no it's like if you have the money for it and you just on a whim decide to get one it's going to be fun for the once in a while that you do play a game watch a movie watch back some spatial videos and it's just going to be up to whatever apps show

up for the rest of like why people should actually get this thing. Yeah. Something I really liked from it was the environments that they had. They added a new environment for this demo that we had that was Wakalea. I don't know how to say it. Am I saying that right? I don't know. I don't know. I apologize if I'm saying that wrong. It is the top of the tallest mountain in Hawaii.

And it was quite cool because if you pulled up like a movie or something and you played the movie, And it was quite cool because if you pulled up like a movie or something and you played the movie, you know how companies are releasing those like backlighting for TVs that will sort of ambiently play the lighting behind the TV? It like bounces off of the clouds that are floating below the mountain. So it has this like very ambient effect. There's also with the spatial audio, you can kind of sort of hear the wind kind of going like so it feels like you're watching something it really is on the place and the fidelity of the rocks and everything is amazing the interesting thing is like with a laptop or a phone you have some customization through a wallpaper with this they're giving you environments and then some apps like the disney app also can develop their own environments i don't know

whether or not developers of other apps can develop their own environments if like notion wanted you to have a notion environment or something like that i think so yeah the bummer for me is there's no personalization aspect of this device right like unless you consider the transparent mode the personalization your Because it's your house. Your house is the personal background. I would assume that's because the amount of information of the file you would need to do that. Now, you are someone who could give a high enough res file. So this is the thing is that I have these panoramas that I'm going to release for the Vision Pro people. And it basically stretches around your entire scene but i think

that apple wants people to have their because in the environments there's like little things that are moving there's some soundscapes i think they want to be very intentional on like what kind of space you're in but the thing is like looking at my panoramas like massive like that felt so sick that personally i would prefer to just be in my own environment that i shot and they like let people shoot their own iphone panoramas like yeah if you went to the beach with your family and you wanted that to sort of be your like wallpaper for vision pro it would be nice to be able to do that yeah it would the problem is the other side of that scale where my mom sorry sorry mom, downloads a photo from an Android text message and then tries to blast that as the background.

And then there's just eight giant pixels behind the movie she's trying to watch. So you would actually need the opposite of a file that's too large. You would be like, this file is too small to be. I would like to see that also it sounds a little bit like the state that apple watch faces are in to where there's a good analogy there's no reason that third parties couldn't make them android wear that was like what was the app that android were that came out right when android wear came out that let you make your own watch faces oh god i used to mess don't remember the name of it.

God, I used to mess with that so much. Anyway, continue, Ellis. I'm sorry. Just that they want the system of plugging into all the different kits and APIs and stuff to be so perfect that they don't even want to let people give it a try. But I agree with you, David. I think there's absolutely no reason you couldn't put a photo of your end and then it go, Oh, that's a cloud. I have cloud dynamics built in.

I mean, that would be cool too. Yeah. Yeah. Just the fact that there's not a lot of customization features is kind of sad. Yeah. Um,

another thing I asked them if there were like profiles. So if my wife, I don't have a wife, but if I did, if you had a vision pro, um, anyway, uh,

wanted to use my vision pro and she could like set up her own yeah you know eye tracking thing and i could just hand it to her you can't do that i just assumed you could yeah i also did that's why i asked it can only be connected to one apple id um but they have a guest mode but the annoying thing is anytime anyone other than the person who bought the vision pro and logged into their apple id wants to use, they have to recalibrate in the guest mode. So they have to do the whole setup process again. It's about a 90 second. But it's still annoying for a device that you're probably only going to wear for like a few minutes at a time unless you're watching.

And also profiles just like there's more to just the calibration aspect of it. Like there's saved. There's bookmarks. There's all sorts of different app layouts and your home screen. It might be something that they add in the future. I can't see them not adding that. Yeah, I mean, at least Gen 2 will definitely have it. I think Gen 2 of this is going to be 20% to 30% lighter, 40% cheaper, maybe 30% cheaper,

and we'll have profiles and we'll be a lot more durable it'll be the consumer version yeah this is the this is the the rich developer version yeah and then the people who just like

want to buy first gen Apple anything which is fair enough which is way more than it should be there's a lot yeah it is a lot it is at least 60 to 80,000 people

exactly yeah well that's you know that's our third and fourth time trying it There's a lot. Yeah, it is a lot. It is at least 60 to 80,000 people. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's, you know, that's our third and fourth time trying it. I think when this actually gets released and we get to review the thing, we're going to have a lot more answers to the questions. There's still lots of things we don't know. I don't know if you can screen record.

I don't know if there's going to be controller support for games. I don't know. There's lots of things I don't know about it yet. So stay tuned. Yeah. We're going to keep you all posted. The videos will be flowing. January be January.

The way I feel like I would sum this thing up is one of the most advanced magical pieces of technology I've ever used that I'm not sure that I want to use. Damn. Or will hurt to use. Bars. Did you see

Apple Vision Pro Starter Pack is like a neck brace and like a pinch hand like that it's like that's that's about right yeah all right we'll keep an eye on that i think before we get to that last bit we should uh we should take a quick break a little break What's up? Andrew, earlier you said, this is not the first time we've seen a live translation announcement. And you're right. We've actually been seeing them for quite a while. So I went through the history books, and I compiled as many live translation feature announcements as I could find.

So I want you guys to rack your brains and think about the first time you heard a company announce a live translation feature. I want the company and I want the year. Ever. And I want whoever gets the earliest one will get this week's point. 1876. Live translation feature. Live translation feature. And George Washington. Because I realize this is a tricky question. I'm looking for the year of the announcement, not the release. it doesn't even actually have had to come out that just needs to have been announced as a feature and it needs to be speech in speech out not text see so i get it got it see so speech in speech out i have a list in front of me of one two three four five six seven yes i have seven

different announcements are any of them out right now i i don't know i genuinely don't know i don't use these features i think they're kind of bad personally but um yeah maybe you do i don't know are they all from google no i have speech in speech out it depends you know some do we have sorry yeah we have to get the year right if you're off by like one year i'll give it to you you know cool but you know you should be reasonably right it's also it's tech so a lot of the stuff gets announced at the end of the year and released at the beginning of the year. So there's two kind of different numbers. Okay.

But wow, this trivia question's gone on for a while. I'm sorry. It's me again. I keep screwing everything up. It's all good. It's me. Sup? Anyway, I guess I'll say it. We'll be back after the break. You know what's great about ambition?

You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that road trip bucket list? Get after it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. a couple last quick hits for you that are some of the smaller stories of the week but are at least worth updating one of them i'm just going to warn you now it's probably updated since we talk about it we're going to talk about it now and it's probably going to update but it's the apple watch story which is evolving uh they had this thing where they got so we talked about this before they got sued about the the blood oxygen sensor in the apple watch and so they might have to halt sales for it and blah blah blah we can halt the might temporarily temporary halt sales for it, and blah, blah, blah. They halted sales temporarily.

Temporary halt sales, and then maybe we're going to bring it back. We've proposed that we're going to ship one with a software adjustment, and then that didn't get approved. I think the point we're at now is they have been reband. Yeah, reband. They will not accept just a software fix, and so they look like they will

have to start shipping a new version which at least disables said sensors. Yeah. Software. Software-wise. I guess that's technically. Yeah, it's weird. Software fix to keep it, they didn't agree to.

Software fix to disable it, they did seem to agree to. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure of the wording there. They have to stop selling them again as of 5 p.m on january 18th which is yesterday if you're listening to this as of today it is tomorrow um right in between yesterday which is today if it's tomorrow yeah got it tomorrow is and if you're adam editing this it's probably like right around oh my god that's true yeah we started recording and it was like they're allowed to sell them for now but then then they're reviewing it. And then after we hit the record button, that Mark Gurman article came out. I was like, actually, they're stopping.

And it was like, okay. Yeah. But anyway, this letter was released from Massimo's lawyers that effectively said, okay, if you remove the feature from the Apple Watch, then you can start selling them again. remove the feature from the Apple Watch, then you can start selling them again. They either will completely stop selling Apple Watches as of Thursday, or theoretically, there is a report that they have watches in stock that already have the feature disabled that they will just switch to selling starting 5 p.m. on Thursday. Allegedly. Allegedly.

I also want to ask the question here just because this is also confusing it seems as though if you already have the watch with the sensor you will not be affected but nobody knows nobody knows that seems to be because like isn't the whole thing that they cannot sell with the blood oxygen feature i think that's what's i think that's the case so it seems like if you had it before the thing i wonder and maybe it's based on serial numbers if you like factory reset previously your old apple watch i would guess you'd still be fine please don't take that but it sounds like if you do get the new watch when it comes out without the feature whatever that is yeah everything else is fine'm wondering, does the new watch,

it's going to be the same price, right? They're not going to discount it just by missing a feature. Yeah. Yeah, so luckily everyone who liked it, because we did get a lot of people who told us they liked the blood oxygen feature, you still have it.

Yeah, just by a used one. You still have it. It'd be more valuable. Yeah, if you were looking for one because of that, I hope they're not gonna jack it up on the uh the secondary market it's gonna be interesting how they uh change all of the wording and the documentation on the ultra series 3 this year um because that's going to take away all those features theoretically yeah yeah knowing apple they'll just not talk about

it at all. Yeah. There's a lot of just ignore it. Speculation about whether or not a software update is going to remove the feature, but nobody has said anything for sure. So I think that we're just going to have to wait and see. Maybe that will become clear by the time you guys are listening to this podcast. Yeah. It seems like the most up-to-date information we have is that as of Wednesday at 3.56pm is that at some point earlier in the week, Eastern Time slash possibly month, they asked a judge and Mossimo to confirm

like if we fix this with software is that an acceptable fix that like effectively removes the technology and it seems like everyone agreed to that because that was part of Mossimo's statement that like we would be cool with a software fix just as long as the feature is disabled

the point is we don't know yet this is so complicated. Why does it even matter how much air is in my blood? We have gotten a lot of, people do really like sleep apnea, apparently it's great for it. I'm just saying there are a lot of people who, there are metrics that they appreciate.

But Marques was saying on another earlier, like I do think there's a lot of people who, until they realize that that is great, didn't know they want it so plenty of people getting this watch are just gonna never know it existed and never know that it could be cool it is funny how much uh the tech crunch article slams just like says the feature is completely useless their headline is literally apple's fixed for the apple watch series 9 and Ultra 2 salesman could be disabling a useless feature. And then throughout the article, it's like, it will impact no one. Yeah.

So everyone coming at us. It should honestly have nil impact on anyone who ends up buying one of these in the future. Percentage-wise, they're probably right, but yeah. Yeah, but we had a lot of people reply to our comments in the comments saying that it's valuable. Anyway. Anyway. So that'll continue to update. Yes. I'm sorry, but I cannot

fulfill this request as it goes against open AI use policy. This was a hilarious article that The Verge wrote up where effectively there are a bunch of Amazon listings that are just being generated by ChatGPT and there was some glitch in the naming of

the, like they're just telling chat gbt like name all of these products for me and put them on amazon and so there was some like they were not able to name them because of some like policy your drop shipping script failed yes that's exactly that's so there's a bunch of products on amazon that are just called i apologize but i cannot complete this task because it requires using trademark brand names, which goes against open AI policy. Some of them are different, though, right? It's like a bunch of different policies. But this is what happens when you get that tick tock.

That's like, have you ever automated your your system to just like generate money for you overnight? You just need an open AI script to just like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you do that. And then this is what you get and then it breaks you get horrible listings with titles that don't work because open ai couldn't do it and just failed this is also kind of the reason i'm scared to use the rabbit ai product because this might because it's all automated stuff because it's just all like script hacking it's like what's gonna break but it's just really funny because there's like uh there's like, what's going to break? But it's just really funny because there's like a desk that holds stuff inside of it or a side table.

And it's, I'm sorry, but I cannot fulfill the request, open AI policy. And it just goes, dash, brown. Because that's the color. Yeah, yeah. This is my favorite one. It also has the, it says, calorie, which is the brand's name. Then it says, apologies, but I'm unable to assist with this request. It goes against open AI use policy and encourages unethical behavior dash black the color part of the script the color

and the brand got it but what is the it's a chair by the way i don't know what's going to be unethical about the chair but that's very it's like a lawn chair i i read this really great piece it was about this idea that we're going about AI kind of wrong. And this sort of situation is a really good example of it, where this writer was saying that the current entrepreneurial model of using AI, especially language models, is have a model do a task, have a human check its work. have a model do a task have a human check its work right because then you can in theory just have the model do it a lot of times and then slowly churn through the double checks with a handful of humans but actually it would work way way better the opposite way if you let humans do more work and then save their time by having it double checked by a robot i feel like it depends so much on the task because that ratio works so well for me with like writing something, for example.

It might take me an hour to write something and then it takes GPT two seconds to check or it takes GPT two seconds to write something and then it takes me five minutes to correct it. Totally. And then it's a win for that ratio. I don't know. Well, the problem is how often they're wrong right now. so check it being your check is a little worrisome yeah it's like yeah looks good also i want people to write stuff with their brains yeah that's what this would be doing my brain's not very good so also you can kind of like see how many bots are on twitter if you just search goes against

open ai's contact content policy because uh you'll just see all of the fake accounts that are just tweeting i'm sorry but i cannot provide a response to your request free bot indicator but it's just kind of funny and it shows uh how much of the internet is just being automated within one year of this technology right under our noses this This podcast, by the way, is entirely AI-generated. Just so you know. The real David would say that. Adam and Elise. It's Alice.

I'm sorry, I cannot complete that request. You know what isn't AI-generated? The trivia questions. The subscribe button. That you know of. The like button. trivia questions the subscribe button that you know of the like button all right quick update on the score marquez with 21 andrew's with one two carry the one 15 david with 20 that's right first question i'm still behind the s24 has titanium finally more like titanium you right

what atomic number on the periodic table is titanium use your not just so we're on the same page pure guess right it's heavy pure guess pure guess did you even know actually not a guess meme meme i've given up. Okay. Sorry. That means it's going to sound funny and it's not funny. Is it a heavy metal? That's a, you can't tell if it's a heavy metal. No, no, no. Not music.

I mean, that's a hint that you asked me. Titanium is more, it's by Sea. It's light rock. It's more of a pop song. It's a light rock. Get it? Music? Oh, thanks.

That whole thing just turned into a meme. Okay. Flip them and read. We are on different turned into a meme. Okay. Flip them and read. We are on different pages here. I put 14. That's right. I put 42. That's the answer to everything. I put 16.

Who was closest? Was it 14? No. I put 14. Marquez was closest, technically. What was it, 18? What was it? It's 22.

Oh. Yeah. What? You should have known that that's your whole thing it's a taylor swift album you said i'm gonna do a meme and i was like oh my god is he gonna get it so i don't know about you but i'm feeling like titanium yeah the remix that's the katie perry taylor swift mashup it's sia i'm feeling like sea titanium oops right sorry it's david get a feature with the vocals by c what do i have to get my td perry what am i getting

what do you need me to grab all right question two but first quick announcement for all the concerned people that reached out after the studio channel ces vlog i still have the purple 12 mini uh i was just using a 15 on the show floor because that was a nice camera for production stuff anyway so still attacked andrew for the two people that care there was like okay no there was a discord post yeah no people were were concerned. Someone swatted you over. Yeah, that I had switched phones. Someone got out of the car. Don't worry.

Don't worry. Question two. Andrew, you mentioned that this is not the first time we've seen, by this I mean Samsung Unpacked, is not the first time we've seen a live translation feature announcement. So I spent some time compiling a quick list. There could be some I've left out. Maybe I'll get them from you and fact check them. But name the earliest live translation announcement

you can. I'm looking for the company and the year. The year of the announcement, to be exact. And whoever gets the earliest real one, I'll give it to. I have a question that's not going to affect my answer at all. Okay.

When you say sound in, sound out, does the sound out have to go also to a person you're talking to? Or just like... I'm including video chats as well. I don't know about that. What if somebody's talking to me and then I'm the only person that hears? I am including video chats. Oh me and then I'm the only person that hears? I am including video chats.

Oh. What if I'm the only person that hears it? It doesn't matter. Oh, no. David, I'll let you amend your answer. Should I amend my answer? I don't know. You tell me.

I am including... Wait, he said it... Is that a hint? Could be. Let's run it back. Is that a Jeffrey Hinton? There's... It's...

So, like, I don't expect any of you to get the absolute earliest one i'm giving it to whoever here gets the gets the earliest one of the three of you that's a good well i'm just i i can't prove that what i've found is even the earliest one oh me neither i just went with the earliest one i know which is probably like the latest on that list all right that's probably gonna win i just did the pixel let's hear we are okay let's let's hear oh oh interesting guys i also originally put google translate andrew uh let's why don't you go first i just did pixel buds all right. All right, Pixel Buds. That was in 2018. I wrote 2018.

Is it actually? No, it's not. And it is the Pixel Buds Pro, but you know, it's not the original Pixel Buds. No, the OG Pixel Buds. They had a little string. They're awful. That was a major part

of the announcement. See, this is why I did not want... It doesn't matter. It still was like... I'm sure there were some I missed. Yeah. Marques.

I wrote it Marques. Skype in 2007. I could not find any evidence of Skype doing that in 2007. I did find evidence that Skype introduced this feature, or excuse me, announced this feature in 2014. I said 2010. And you said Skype as well. I did.

What are you thinking? Let me discuss. Yeah, yeah. Who's the least wrong? I was only wrong by three months. I just know that Google Translate had it very early. Pixel Buds original were October 2017. I was close.

All right. So here's what I was able to find. Here's what I was able to find. Here's what I was able to find. Wait, so did you give me a point? I don't know yet. We're still figuring it out. Google Translate Conversation Mode was announced in 2010. I'm literally going to write that.

After that, Microsoft announced a live translation feature in 2012. Also in 2012, an app called, I'm not even, it's a French word. I don't know how to pronounce. I'm going to spare it. Fonce. It's a V-O-C-R-E.

I think it's pronounced Vuck. But I, again, sorry. It's probably just Vaughn. Let me have a phone. Let me have a phone call with you, my Samsung phone. Google Translate announced it again in 2015. Correct. And then ever since then,

companies announced live translate with pretty much every event. So David, you got the year closest, but the company pretty wrong. And it was outside my one year rule. You had a one year delta? I did. Wait, so I got a correct company in the was outside my one year rule you had a one year delta i did so i got a correct company in the right within one oh my god wait just saying andrew might be getting the point because i said pixel buds 2018 and they had because he's the only one that got the company and the year right and within despite it being really yeah but despite it being way later than all the other completely missing the point of the question andrew somehow comes out on top what is this the trivia extra

begins let's go carry the one i want to tell a little story really quick okay when i was in rural japan in 2016 i could go anywhere i was deep in the forest okay this could go horribly wrong get ready to cut where where's the dump button uh i was going to see the native monkeys up at the top of a mountain it was very difficult to get to the top of that mountain you had to hail a taxi and in order to do that, there were a couple taxis that were around, but nobody spoke any English. It was really difficult. I was trying to tell this taxi where I wanted to go.

He had no freaking idea. So I was like, doesn't Google Translate have a I speak in, it speaks out feature? And it did it. And this 85-year-old Japanese man who was driving this taxi, we're having so much trouble communicating.

I speak into it. It comes out the other side. His face just, like, lights up. He's like, oh. And then he speaks back into it. And then it comes out to me. And I'm like, yeah. And both of us are like, yeah.

It's working. I was like, this is the best. Meanwhile, in the events, they're like, want to go out? Want to go get dinner? Yeah, sounds cool. Where in real life, people used events they're like, want to go out? Want to go get dinner? Yeah, sounds cool. Where in real life people used to just be like, oh! It felt like magic. It felt like

I was like, I am living in the freaking future right now. I love that. That's a great story. Alright, we can keep that. I can show you, you can put some photos of the monkeys in the podcast. They're pretty cool. And a photo of the guy like...

Yeah. Well, that's a very wholesome ending to the pod this week. Let us know if you guys have any requests of things you want to know about Vision Pro when it comes out. Let us know how out of date we are with the Apple Watch story. Inevitably, we are. Don't worry. After you comment, you'll be out of date

on this story. Yeah, exactly. You'll then be out of date for the next commenter. Let us know how many of you bought a Vision Pro. Yeah, and how many of you bought S24s, because we know that's going to be on sale right away. And let me know about the 2008 Vodafone research paper about live translation that I totally read, but didn't feel was applicable for this trivia question.

Got it out there ahead of you guys. And then summarize with AI. And then post it on a social media post with hashtag... I'm sorry, I cannot complete this. We just summarized the podcast for you. You don't have to... You just speedrun the podcast. We just speedrun the podcast.

Thanks for watching. Catch you guys next week. Peace. I'm against opening AI's content policy. Waveform was produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Robin. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro-outro music was created by Vane Silk. You have to be a vision bro to have the tricep muscles for this.

The traps. The trap muscles. Only vision bros can handle the vision pro.