Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Goodbye Windows 10, Hello Apple M5 Chip!

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

It was a jam-packed week of news this week. Marques, Andrew, and David start it off talking about the new YouTube collab feature before discussing the Xiaomi 17 Pro. After that, they talk about the new Apple M5 products, Netflix and Spotify teaming up for podcast distribution, and of course the end of Windows 10 (kind of?). Then they wrap it up with the Pixel 10 Pro Fold exploding in the newest JerryRigEverything video and an Honor concept phone. Enjoy! Links: Becca Farsace - One year on YouTube: https://youtu.be/CQhT2bZk-5w?si=DSDonmKOrjxidR-v MKBHD - Xiaomi 17 Pro: https://youtu.be/eou_g_cYCew?si=oOmjK0kJ_DuVwjrL JerryRigEverything - Pixel 10 Pro Fold video: https://youtu.be/8uS90jakOuw?si=mhBeKBu_gD0O9IAf Honor concept phone: https://www.theverge.com/news/799944/honor-robot-phone-tease-announcement This episode brought to you by: Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/waveform LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/mkbhd Framer: https://www.framer.com/design (code: WAVE) Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You assign the task, your Notion agent does the work. Try Notion and Notion agent for free at Notion.com slash box. I feel like there's got to be a reason they're not bringing Clippy back. Is there like a weird copyright or like trademark thing that they lost or? No. No, but we hate him so much we want it back now. It's easy to make fun of it literally. But it's got to, it's endearing.

Instead of co-pilot, they could have just done Clippy, and everyone would have loved it. It could have been awful, and we would have been like, yeah, but it's Clippy. It's Clippy. Give him a chance. He was bad originally, too. He's got a face. Yo, what is that? People of the Internet, welcome back to another episode of the Wayform podcast.

We're our hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. This week, we, well, it's still Techtober, so we still have a lot going on. We tested the YouTube collab feature in more than one way. We also have possibly a phone of the year in the house, or at least a really interesting one. Also, new M5 chip and some new devices that it is in from Apple, goodbye to Windows 10, and exploding phone.

A lot of places we could go to start this podcast. There are. Yeah. But first, the way I think we will go, did you guys see Becca's video of, like, her first year as a creator? I did. Friend of his channel. Yeah, she's been on the pod. She's been on the pod in her episode was great, but I just wanted to toss it out there because, like,

like, I think our audience, one, loves tech YouTube, and two, a lot of them are probably, like, interested in making tech YouTube content. And she just, like, did this really well thought out video of her first year as a full-time creator and how much money she's made and how she's made it and what's it been, like, creating in that scenario. And she teased her merch, which I want so good. Yeah, me too. I could see that, yeah. The merch is really good. I've seen it. I'm sure it will be fantastic. Nice. But I just think it's a must watch video. And everyone most of our audience I think would thoroughly enjoy if you're not following her already you should even if you don't go watch that video yeah yeah I think I have such a good segue okay in that video

she talks about like her arc of her first year of being an independent creator where she was she monetized her channel with the ads that are built in to YouTube and then she also proceeded to start doing brand deals and how she goes through that process and that I talked about that exact arc in the Adam Sari interview where creators on all platforms kind of go through a similar arc. You start with the built-in monetization tools on the platform. And then as you expand and as you grow, you can start to have an audience big enough to maybe do your own ads and reach your audience independently with for an individual company. So the Adam Sari interview is the next thing that we can mention, at least because we were talking about YouTube collab feature.

Yeah. YouTube collabs are a thing now. You can collaborate. actually between multiple creators i think on one channel but we've tested it for a couple wasn't mr b's first one with like a hundred creators i thought it's a mark rober and only i've seen a i thought it was a mark rober over but he started adding to it i thought i could very well be wrong about that but yes you can definitely go up to four at least yeah i mean you've seen this in the past like on instagram you can have more than one person have the same post in their feed and they'll all be quote responsible for the same post yeah it works a similar way on youtube but we found out and actually I've done this with a couple older videos and now a couple newer videos just to learn how

this works. We found out exactly how it works. If I have already uploaded a video and I add another creator as a collaborator, that creator's audience will see that video in their recommended and they get to see that creator. You can share like analytics with them and they can see like how the video is doing and things like that. So I've had a couple older videos like the collab we did with the Dyson headphones with Dr. mic where he comes in and explains why they're a terrible idea like i added him as a collaborator on

that his audience can potentially now start to see that video in their recommended as if it was uploaded by his channel but also if it's a new enough video it shows up in the subbox too so it doesn't show up on your channel if you're a collaborator but it shows up in the subbox for your audience if you accept as a collaborator so we did this with the newest waveform episode interviewing adamisery because I've interviewed tech executives before, and this was, it felt like a right opportunity to try that collab feature. And we did this with a studio video, which was our, like, 45-minute epic, how we make high-quality videos walking through the process from beginning to end, and the whole post-production

work for. This is post-production, yeah, because it's the second version of one. Yeah. And got a lot more feedback on the podcast version, because I think the podcast audience, or our channel audience, on a brand-new video. didn't expect a podcast as much as the studio video seemed to fit in. Got a lot more feedback on the podcast, so hearing that loud and clear. For sure.

I think one of the things was, so we at first didn't realize it goes into the subscription feed. Yeah. I personally didn't know that many people still use the subscription feed. I very rarely use it on my TV, but I think, I guess just my algorithm is pretty dialed into what I like to watch. So I usually just am on the home page. I do think podcast got a little more flack

because we went studio channel podcast and it was the second one that showed up in people's feeds that wasn't from MKBHD. So people were much more adamant about telling us like, I don't want to see this garbage. Each of those uploads were uploaded to the other channel and then MKBHD channel was added as a collaborator instead of vice versa.

So it was showing up on MKBHD subscribers' subscription boxes when they were not subscribed to those, those channels, which there's a valid argument, I think, for both sides. Like, if I'm a creator, and I think that the content I'm making on this other channel is different enough to warrant a different channel for a different audience with different subscribers, then, okay, yeah, it makes sense that people don't want both of those things on one feed. But also, if it's a good enough overlap, you know, you can see sometimes that cross-collaboration feels a little more natural. So, yeah, work sometimes. I thought my, my thoughts on it were, I thought the Missouri interview was

very similar to like talking tech stuff that has been on main channel before and it's a bonus it's not just a regular episode so that's why we thought it would be fun the studio one was like pretty much how the team here at its main channel videos so it felt like a good um connection between them yeah i think people might think we were going to do this with every single post which was never the plan but yeah we also now definitely are we'll never do that yeah um i saw a lot of people saying like i know the wave form i know the podcast exists and i just don't want to listen to podcast but like you have 20 million subs on the main channel doing that collab difference between a 500 subchannel 500,000 subchannel and a 20 million like

there are plenty of your audience that don't know we exist so every once in a while like getting that is beneficial as like when it makes sense yeah when it makes sense so yeah personally I was just confused because Marquez could have easily uploaded this on his channel and tagged Wayform as the collab and I don't think we would have gotten the blowback yeah I think if we so if I had done this like when I typically had done all those executive tech company person interviews in the past, it wouldn't have like the waveform bumper and then it wouldn't be in the podcast set. So I think when people saw that, they were like more heightened alert to the fact that it was a podcast versus if I had just

jumped in and it was 30 minutes instead of 45 and it just felt like another one of those videos. It might have felt different. The thumbnails also in the waveform style. So I think they're just more aware of it in certain cases. But I do agree. Like that's that coming out of that interview, I felt like, oh, this is something that feels in the style of the other tech executive interviews, which made it a good opportunity for a collab. It's also funny because all the comments on this will probably be like, I saw no issue because none of the waveform listeners are going to listen to this episode and hear us complain about it, and it doesn't really matter.

Well, here's your PSA. Go listen to it. Go check it out. Yeah. It's pretty good, I think. I thought it was pretty good. Yeah. But yeah, that's more about the, yeah, we have to check out this phone.

You haven't seen this phone yet, right? David. I haven't not actually seen it yet. Have you seen the video about it? Yes. Okay. So this is the Xiaomi 17 Pro Max. Yeah. God, I want it. Yeah. So the thing about this phone. Yeah, is the Game Boy case for it. I don't have it with me. It's, uh, we have one for the pro. So it's, uh, we have one for the pro. Oh, really? So I, this is the Pro Max phone and we have the case for the pro. Got it. Either way. Me when I see this phone. So this phone, I mean, show me has been doing their hyperOS what is it called hyperOS yeah for a while where it has lots of cues and things that remind you of ios right yeah and that's fine they've done it for

years some people like it some people don't but this year more than ever yeah more obviously than ever they just connected it directly to the latest iPhones yeah they changed the name of the phone. Yeah. It's the 17 Pro Max. Yeah. And they have the same shape as the iPhone. They have the same similar shape of the camera bump as the iPhone. There's a whole bunch of things to like line it up with the iPhone. So comparison writes itself. Yeah. But the phone itself is really, really good. And a lot of things about it that the iPhone doesn't do are some of my favorite things about it. Like the screen on the back, the cameras, the actual images I came out of this. I'm curious. I'm going to hand it to you right now. what you think of it, like holding it.

It's lighter than the 17 pro max. It's so, it's concerningly light. Yes, lighter than the iPhone. It's got a 7,500 million-an-hour silicon carbon battery inside with 100 watt charging, 50-watt wireless charging. Literally the same size. Yeah, 22.5 watt reverse wireless charging. So it'll basically be a battery bank to your iPhone and fill it from zero to 100.

It's kind of sick. 7,500 watts. Yeah, 7,500 million powers. It's also triple-factory. 50 mega pixel yeah that would be bad triple 50 megapixel cameras uh which is triple yeah the bottom one is the ultra wide it's it kind of doesn't look like triple but that's the ultra wide that does not look like a camera yeah what happens when you're holding it like this you can show up in the photo yeah you can kind of cover the ultra wide a little bit if you're not careful

what i will say though is the main camera is pretty wide so the ultra wide doesn't feel that much wider it's like a 23 millimeter equivalent the sharpening is a little much And it's very processed. Yeah, the processing from the photos is pretty serious. But then it like flattens out and processes. Right, it gets way. That's funny because iPhone photos generally, the preview looks terrible. Yeah.

And you take it and it gets, you know, a little bit better. Yeah. This one, everything looks super oversharpened. Then you take the photo and then it smooths out. Yeah. So the photos, I think, looked pretty good. The photos look good, yeah. Yeah.

So the cameras are good. The battery is good. the screen is good, the design is good. And then there's a screen on the back, which has been evolving the exact same way that flipping phones have, which we had the tiny poster stamp one, which is just like the time.

And then it got a little bigger, and then you could like take selfies with it. Now it's a whole full-wit thing with the camera cutouts, and you can play games on it if you're really into that. But the phone itself, like, for being cheaper than the iPhone,

it is a really compelling device. Yeah, what is the price? So it's in China only. This model is, roughly an $850 equivalent for the 17 Pro Max so that's like noticeably cheaper than the iPhone have a lot more storage it has 16 gigs of RAM this one has a terabyte of storage so it's definitely more than the base yeah but it is it is a seriously well-equipped device it does feel kind of just like an iPhone with

the extra buzz on the what's funny is that the a lot of people are speculating because there was this leaked it was not a leaked video it was a render that came out that showed this what is that they call this a plateau on the iPhone they showed it like flipping sideways and it was just it was a crappy render but it like flip sideways and there's a screen underneath and that's literally what this is

I mean it doesn't flip but there is a screen there the whole screen on the back that's crazy and it's like a full interface that you can do things with I think this is exactly how Apple would do it so what you're doing now you're like holding it down and like swiping between watch faces I keep thinking they're of watch faces

but they're not a watch faces it's just clock faces yeah and then there's a whole personalization on the phone so you can change the colors and like mess with different sizes of fonts and things like that. That one is, no, the one to the left is literally the new Apple Watch.

Literally the new Apple Watch font. Like the font form is extremely similar. In the thumbnail. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a really good phone. It's also one of the first phones with the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5.

Ridiculously quick. Why did they put 120 hertz on the back display? That's so funny. The back display is 120 hertz, 3,500 knits, like full, full high quality, high resolution, 3 inch corner corner. Like, I get why it's OLED to use less power since you're going to use that as an ambient clock. But the fact that it's 120 hearse just feels overkill. It's beautiful. I love it. I mean, yes. It's great. I've taken more selfies on this phone

than I have in, like, the last year of other phones, I think. And the software, it looks like it's trying to copy Apple, but does it do a, uh, yeah, a lot of, a lot of the stock apps feel like Apple apps, like the settings app, the camera app, a lot of the stuff, the weather app, the calendar, they look like the notes app, they all look like Apple clones. And that's fine for some people. They're just as functional. Yeah. If you have a Shami account, you log in, everything sinks. But I have a question. Yeah. The dynamic island. It seems to have the same like kind of animation when you get a notification and stuff. Does it have the same persistent animation when you're like playing a song like on Spotify or something? Yeah. Google like added that to

Yeah, that got added to a lot of Android phones. That got added to, like, Android in general. Yeah. So when you're charging, it just stays there. And when you're playing media, it stays there. If you open the music app, you can play. It might not be out yet. Pixel doesn't have it.

But if you open on a Samsung phone, if you have music playing, you'll see the same. But Samsung also has it like towards the bottom, right? Like the now bar. No, you think of the now bar. But it also has at the top, like a literal dynamic island clone. This one is even more of a clone. Okay, speaking of Apple clones. Have you guys seen this Magic OS 10 video on threads?

It's so good. Magic OS 10. Oh, you haven't seen this yet? No. Just watch this on my screen. Okay. Okay. So it's literally just the super transparent icons.

Guys. Everything about it. Literally everything about it. You can change the transparency, though, it seems. There's like a slider. Yeah. So it turns into liquid and then glass and then there's diffraction. And there's all the settings panels and then the app icons.

Guys, guys. Guys, that's not even, it's the same icon. The time, the time like warps. Yeah, everything about it. Even the Siri animation at the bottom, the air drop animation. Wait, guys, we still haven't said what this is. Well, it's, okay, Magic OS 10, it's Honor's new UI. So you're looking at like a clone of liquid glass?

It looks almost exactly the same. It's a teaser of their new operating system, and it looks exactly like liquid glass. And when I was first watching this, I was like, okay, everyone's going to go to the thing. This seems pretty blatant. But there's one specific shot in that where I was like, I've seen that shot before, the icon. So what I did was I ripped

that teaser and part of the announcement for liquid glass from Apple and I put them back to back. So I'm going to show both of you guys. What's happening in these is there's an app icon with a bunch of different colors and they look like pieces of glass falling onto an app icon. So this is, you'll be able to tell which it is

because it goes into the apps next to it, but these are almost identical. So this is the Magic OS one. This is the Magic OS one. And then this is the Apple one. Oh my gosh. We can play this in the video, but I'm saying literally almost identical.

It's essentially two app icons that have a bunch of colors kind of creating almost like a pedal. Yeah, that look exactly the same. Yeah, and the colored glass falls down and swirls around into it. It is basically framing. Yeah, the Siri animation is exactly. the same the airdrop animation is exactly the same yeah it's you know it's funny when you point this

out like when i point this out on the show me video for example there's there's like two different camps of thought one of them is like you know they've been doing this forever this isn't copying apple like there's actually people who are defending the originality of what is going on here and then there's other people who are like why bother ripping it off like i'm never going to buy the rip off you're just ripping off the thing that i already like so this just feels like a second rate version so why would this ever work you know what i think it is apple has the kind of money to and google as well but they have the kind of money to do all of the like market research and user experience testing to like figure things out in a way that these other

companies don't even want to bother it's interesting i mean i think some of it comes down to like market dominance in certain ways like we made the switching video about how like it appears that they copy each other a lot of ways just to make potential customers more comfortable so even if your shami you have billions of dollars shami is an enormous company they make washing machines and cars like they have the money to do the testing but they also know that if they're going to

steal customers they have to feel from they have to feel at least approachable and familiar to the people who use it yeah so that ends up looking like what we're seeing uh my favorite tech book of the year Apple and China yeah talks a lot about this and specifically about how

um I don't know if it's still the case in 2025 but for a long time the iPhone really was this like giant status symbol in China. And even though it only makes up less than 25% of smartphone market share in China, I think it is sort of hailed as like a flagship market leader and it is the thing to capture. And then also the thing that I think sheds a lot of light on like a lot of Chinese phones looking like the iPhone is so much of Apple's iPhone development happens in China now at China. Either, like in Chinese factories where they're developing the techniques to build it

or in Apple's, like, offices in China. And so it's not like they don't have access now to the same infrastructure and tools to make such similar phones. Well, hey, speaking of Apple, Apple actually did drop a new thing, several new things this week, as we sort of expected. There was rumors leading up to it, but they did it. M5. We have an M5 chip and three new devices

that it will be shipping in right from the get-go. Can we pause and thank Apple for releasing these first thing in the morning on Wednesday? Oh, appreciate that. Because of our entire podcast. I'm not saying they did this for us, but I'm not not saying that either. I just, the chance of this releasing at 2 p.m. today or tomorrow was so high. Yeah. All of us were like, please, if this comes out this week, we want to talk about it.

They dropped at 9 a.m. E.T., which is 6 a.m. p.t. And they love to do stuff at 10 a.m. p.t. they love to make our lives miserable yeah so thanks for not doing it for once thank you jaws we have the new stuff so they so there's three three devices the m5 will show up in the new ipad pro the new macbook pro and the new vision pro but only the 14 inch base macbook pro yeah so let's go through the one by one macbook pro as you mentioned macbook pro has before today m4 m4 m4 max this m5 is just the base m5 so it's replacing the m4 yeah there is still an m4 pro and an m4 max a But also only in the 14 inch. In the 14 inch, exactly. Because the 15, the 16 inch starts with the M4 Pro now, yeah. So it's already getting confusing. Essentially, anywhere where you would see just a base M4 chip, that's where you're slotting in M5.

Except for the air. Other than IMAQ and MacBook Air and the regular iPad. It's starting to sound like a prescription medicine. You should probably ask your doctor before you buy an M5. There's a legitimate question, like, why didn't they? they just wait until they had everything ready and then drop it all at once. I don't know if there's a good answer for that. But yeah, this is just 14-inch MacBook Pro base M4. That's now base M5. What do you get out of that? A little bit more GPU, a little bit better on-device

AI processing. Marquez, it ushers in the biggest leap in AI performance for Apple Silicon ever. They said that last year, though. It's true. They have done most of their improvements between M4 and M5 in the GPU and neural engine. That's what they said last year. That's what they said for M4. I think when they say that, you can also infer that the CPU improvements are not as big and not as much of a focus.

And that the stock price will go up. But yeah, that they, for people who have on-device AI processing workloads or tasks that they specifically want to do better, then that jump between M4 and M5 will be the most noticeable for that person. For the baseline chip. the baseline ship the most for the least likely person to use this. The people that need the stuff that this

is better at are going to get the better ones when they come out. M5 Pro why would they buy the baseline MacBook Pro? They're going to buy the Max or the Ultra if it ever comes to the... It's just a little appetizer for the main course. Which is the Vision Pro. The main

course is the Vision Pro with M5. Apparently battery life gets a lot better too. 24 hour battery life in the new 14 inch MacBook Pro M5. Base. All day. base it's pretty good 24 is all day yeah it's a literal once they hit 25 hours we can say more than all day they just did this with the iPhone too didn't they were or was it with the apple watch where they've been doing all day all day but then a couple of them are 24 hours and now it's like now I really have no idea what yeah specifically referencing all day is probably from when you wake up to when you

get to sleep yeah yeah now it's really all day does all day change in the wintertime because the sun is up for less. I mean, it does get colder. Asterisk, only in winter. I mean, when it gets colder, your phone battery is worse. But that's fine, because there's way less daylight, so it's still all day. Exactly. It winds out.

Unless you wake up later. Yeah. Now, you wake up at the same time, even if it's not light out. It's just darker. Anyway. The sun. Yeah, all day, hashtag when the sun is out. No, yeah.

So MacoPro gets those minimal improvements. iPad Pro also gets the minimal improvements. I think it also gets the C1X modem. That's new for the iPad. Pro. So a little more GPU, a little more on-device AI processing. Why you're doing this on your iPad? I don't know, but you're that guy on the commercial who does it. So congrats. New M5 chip. And then the Vision Pro. The Vision Pro got a couple of things. Why? So the Vision Pro had, was it M2 before this? Yes. Now it's M5. So theoretically a bigger overall processing and GPU

improvement. So it actually has a couple other things that they mentioned specifically should be better. rendering more pixels at once. So the phoviated rendering, it's like 10% more pixels are sharper, which is I mean, that's pretty nice. It should be a higher refresh rate. It should be just overall crisper and clearer. It said 120

hertz, right? Up to 120 hertz refresh rate looking at your surroundings. That's good. So that's nice. Yeah. And then slightly better battery life. And there's a new dual knit band. Yes. That goes around. So the knit band before just went around the back of your head. This dual knit band has a

knit band around the back and then a knit band around the top yeah and then you can adjust both so for context they released the standard knit band that goes around the back and then people said oh this really hurts my head so then they released the top band and the top band is an additional attachment because the weight distribution was all messed up yeah so the back knit band was the aesthetic one for the commercials yeah but when you wear it it's like it's like pulling it up against your face and all the weight is hanging against the brow the bridge of your nose and so people it looked really cool but it was like uncomfortable to wear the ugly one that has a strap over the top of your head would lift that weight off of your brow yeah sorry yeah

of lifted the weight off of your brow so it wasn't as pretty for the commercials but it was more comfortable to wear for a longer period of time because the weight distribution and now they've released the dual knit band which looks like the first original cool looking one but with a band over the top the irony is that it is ninety nine dollars and they are still selling the other two so now all three of the bands are $99 and there's only one you should buy yep yeah I'm sorry but two nits is just not bright enough I really think hey if I'm in bed at night that's a pun guys I know it's a it's a it's pretty funny it's a good pun that was a good yeah this is getting good I thought of getting good that's not what I mad I have three years

I have three years of bad that's not his first good joke he's on the he's on the right track I did Google Drive. That's what you think. Yeah, so you can buy the new knit band for your old Vision Pro. You're old. Have you guys used Vision Pro in a while? I used it to check a 360 video for a friend who was doing it for a client. I want to use it for the NBA games this season.

Oh, yeah. I did see that. There's going to be a couple of them on that. They just announced that. They just announced the first live sports coming to Vision Pro. Wait, the first? When this came out, weren't they, like, touting the sports stuff? They were promising.

They were live. Oh, my God. But it's live. Where have you been, man? This is how it all goes about it. I mean, this is, Marquez, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly what you said, like, you would buy this for? Yeah. I want to be able to sit court side at the Lakers game, but not be there, but still, but still look around and appreciate and maybe even switch cameras.

Maybe there's one on the baseline, and they had to the other side. I switched to half court and stuff like that. How much are court side tickets usually? In L.A. I don't know if you could buy them. A Vision Pro every time. Every time. I was just wondering, it was about a Vision pro time.

That's the funny thing about basketball is how popular some of the players are. It seems like, I remember, I still don't know if this is a rumor, but when the Nets were still in Newark, there was potentially a promotion where if you got Nets tickets, you could get a reversible jersey that had the Nets and another team. Wow. That might be fake, but that's how unpopular the Nets were in New Jersey. I was a Nets fan for years.

I mean, they were a good team. They were a playoff team. They went to the finals. They went to the finals in like, 2000, right? That's a good team. Is Shaq still on the Lakers? Because I feel like if you're watching...

Is he? Did you say yes, Ellis? I feel like if you're watching... Guys, don't ruin this. Yeah, he's totally... If you're watching it in Vision Pro, you would have to look really high up to see him. That'd be cool.

That's true. He'd be towering over you. He plays the game and in intermission does the general commercials. Yeah. I know he's not on the team anymore. I was making a joke. No, he is.

But I did see him in Staples a couple days ago. The Staples Center, because he plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. He, no. He crypto. We don't call it that. He is still, there are still big cardboard cutouts of Shaq at Staples with a printer for some reason. Wow. He's really letting it lose.

Those worlds he must be good, man. He's running out of Shaq food money. I love how printer companies are like, we can make this work on Wi-Fi or get a shack cut out in every staples. Or buy a failed AI pin company. Yes. True. HP does make printers, don't they? Yeah.

Yeah. What do you think the P stands for? Well, HP, my first computer ever was in HP. Mine too. Yeah. I started this YouTube channel with the HP Pavilion DV7. T. I did Dell.

Wow. It was thick. Mine was a Sony Vio. Vio? And I did not start a YouTube channel with it. I still, I have a place in my heart for HP. I was about to say HTC. That's another place in my heart.

HPC. HP for those old Sony, for those old. Jesus. You guys are. putting all these old nostalgic names in my head for these old HP pavilion laptops i still like them but yeah they did make printers and they definitely aren't good yeah do they do still make them and they're still and now they own humane wow full circle how did we get here from vision pro yeah oh because you brought up shack

and staples vision pro yeah sorry sorry anyway yes i would love to watch in the new vision pro and even higher fidelity courtside live NBA game and league pass i were you going to do it this year yeah yeah I'm going to, I'm dust off my Vision Pro and I'm going to watch. I'm not even an upgrade. I'm going to use my old, crusty old Vision Pro and watch those games. Do you think they have one in the studio? Yeah, we do. We have one here, too.

I'm borrowing that one. Do you think that people will actually buy Vision Pro for this? No, but that's the thing is like, there is not that much content for Vision Pro, but Apple has been continuing this slow drip of content of potential reasons to, it's not a reason to buy Vision Pro, but it's a reason to keep using Vision Pro. Yeah. And so it has an actual use. Yeah. So if you first got Vision Pro when it first came out and all the content was available at once and then you had nothing new for a year, you just wouldn't use it very much, I think. So if they continue to slowly drip new content, new shows and new experiences, then it keeps it feeling fresh.

Like if live sports could keep the cable boxes going. It might work with Vision Pro. The problem is how, oh, never mind. It's how local sports is keeping, it's fucking brutal. Yeah. Also, the boomers are not going to be using Vision Pro. And they're all the ones with cable. Right? Or do you guys have cable? You, like, kind of need cable for a lot of local sports. And it's the devil. You can just use YouTube TV or whatever?

The Devil's game? So YouTube TV still does the local blackouts. What does that mean? So if you watch, oh, you don't know about local sports blackouts? Oh, must be nice. Oh, God. So if you're a fan of, let's say you watch basketball, there's a bunch of teams you can watch. Okay.

In your local, so you get YouTube TV, right? You're watching the Dallas versus L.A. game. It pulls up. You watch the game. Great. Okay. But in your own region, you're a little more likely to be a fan of your own team. So let's say you want to watch the New York team's games, the Knicks.

There's a special deal with the Knicks and the New York team where their broadcasts are only shown by this local TV network. So if you pull it up on YouTube TV, it's just blacked out. Oh, you're in New York. Can't watch it on YouTube TV. You need cable to watch MSG network to watch the Knicks game. Well, used to be a country. So it's like, yes, you can mostly watch NBA games with YouTube TV. Can you use a VPN?

It's so confused. I've gone through the ringer of trying to do all this. MSG is specifically annoying in the New York area because it's the Knicks, the Rangers, the Islanders, and the Devils. So if you're a fan of any of those teams in this, hockey specifically, like, it's very hard to watch. You need. And then Xfinity can't make a deal with MSG.

So even if you bought Xfinity cable, you'll get charged the fee every month for local sports networks, but you don't have four of the local teams. It's insane. Wow. Don't worry, guys. Warner Bros. Discovery Paramount is going to make this a lot easier. If the Vision Pro could solve all of this, I would buy another Vision Pro.

I'm looking for, like, another source for confirmation, but it seems like you need to live in the Los Angeles area to get the Lakers games on Vision Pro. They're not making it available to. No. You have to be an existing Spectrum Sportsnet customer, which is already available. All right. I'm out. Okay, wait, Mark has... I have many of the studio video. Oh, my God.

I'm out. But I'm looking for confirmation because I also don't pay for cable. I watch my team when they don't play in New York City on YouTube TV. The Philadelphia 76ers, the greatest basketball team ever assembled.

So they're taking this small subset of Vision Pro users and then subsetting that even more into people who live in L.A. And then subsetting that more into people that are into basketball, into people who are subscribers of that niche

TV league pass thing. It's not, it's, I don't think it's that niche. I think it's the main, it's the channel you have to get to watch any Los Angeles sports. They have like the... Locally. Yes. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Well, I prefer to watch it

in 67 TikTok reels. And that's how I watch the game. Yeah. Just like I watch movies. You can live in Southern Nevada or Hawaii. Okay. Hey. Southern Nevada? Or you can just be there.

I'm there. You're fly to Vegas. Okay, well, we're not a tech podcast anymore, but we'll return to being one after we do the thing that is also not tech, but the questions are about tech. Sometimes. Yeah, it might be about hermit crabs or something today. I don't know.

Do you want a question about hermit crabs? No. Is that a hermit crab question? I could do the man. I don't know anything about hermit crabs. Antish shrimp ones. I know a lot about those guys. I don't have time to find a hermit crab question.

So instead, we got to do a question about the hermit crabs of the tech world. Microsoft Windows. Huh. I don't really know. I was kind of hoping the analogy king over there would see me through on that one. They put a big shell over. It's a shell of a company. Windows Shell.

No, no, Windows Shell. Oh, power shell. Power shell. They're also a shell of what they once were. All right. Well, anyway, when we were about to talk about... There was that Steve Lyft. Steve...

Ballmer? There you go. Developers! Kawhi! I'm sweating! Okay. Guys, after the break, we are going to talk about Windows 10's end-of-life celebration. Or, yeah, I feel like we can look back on that one.

Yeah. But when Windows 11 came out, we lost two legendary pieces of software that had been bundled with Windows previously. What were they? You're going to get one point per piece of software, and one of them has a pretty big asterisk that I'm going to have to say before I get chewed out by the gamers. Actually, I send it to gamers because it does nothing to do with video games. Is this legendary in the same way that the cyber truck is iconic?

Yeah. It is legendary, but people didn't necessarily love it. Yeah, I think it's fair to say that both of these pieces of software people did not necessarily really love okay all right well we'll think about this one answers be at the end like usual we'll be right back support for this show comes from shopify when you're starting a new business there's so much to do sometimes you can feel like you're playing in the super bowl but you're the only one on your team shopify says they can help shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world offering tools to help your one-man band play like a champion. Shopify says they can help your

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use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash mkbhd. That's LinkedIn.com slash MKBHD to post your job for free, terms, conditions apply. Welcome back. We got some quick hits for you today, specifically one that is potentially exciting for us in the future,

except it's not, at least for now, and probably not in the future. But there's a chance. So Netflix, early next year, is bringing 16 video podcasts from Spotify to Netflix. Mm-hmm. This is, yeah, yeah, it's been rumored for a while. There is this point, there's this Venn diagram, right?

Where video podcast and talk show, it's just a circle. So we're just a talk show, right? which is what a podcast is when you have video for it, right? So, Netflix is realizing the popularity of these things, they're getting a lunch eaten by YouTube, and they're like, oh, well, we got to, you know, we got to develop original content. That takes a lot of money and a lot of time.

So instead of original content, we'll just make Love Island number 8,000 in the UK with dinosaurs. Works every time. You know, so now they're like, okay, it's going to be a lot easier if we can just do the easy content. what we make it sounds like here's how i'm reading this because on the other side of the fence on the youtube side of the fence every time youtube talks to us about the growth of youtube and how youtube is evolving yeah one of the things that always comes up is tv watch time yeah and how much

more content is being watched on tvs and so they're doing all the special features for tvs and having channel banners design for tvs stuff like that and even this podcast is viewed i think by 20% tv viewers yeah which is pretty high i think that could be channel is closer to 10%. So long content, longer videos, people are watching on TVs. And so YouTube is sort of positioning themselves as like bursting into the TV watch space. So if I'm Netflix, I'm like, that's our zone. Yo, that's us. Like, what are people?

Oh, oh, it's podcasts? All right, let's get some podcasts on here. And they're just going to try it. And I don't know. It'll probably go, okay, and they'll see if it works and maybe add some more if it works or stop doing it if it doesn't work. But it's kind of how it looks to me. It's ironic because it's Spotify video.

podcast which already have a video element on Spotify yeah which is weird by the way I got sent a podcast on Spotify which I did not like because I don't like mixing my podcasts and my music I don't like that the algorithm does not know the difference for me and I was kind of taken aback to see that it started playing a video in spot in Spotify and apparently they have that now they keep begging us to do it yeah you've never seen people beg us to do it oh okay I've never watched one got it but I started watching it I was like oh yeah this is fine I guess but it's a partnership between Spotify and Netflix. So these are Spotify exclusive video podcasts that are being put on Netflix.

Like it's not Spotify exclusive anymore. But part of the contract says that they can't run the full episode on YouTube specifically. Which is similar to like the when Spotify first got Joe Rogan. You can only do clips on YouTube. Yeah. So like this just feels like another reason to prove why we're still not putting stuff on Spotify. Because just the stuff, I mean, they didn't offer us. steal it's only 16 it's only 16 and I believe all I'm double checking this now I believe

all 16 are owned by spot yeah Spotify studios yeah okay Spotify studios so this is just their content acquisition plant like they couldn't go to YouTube and steal podcasts from there and put it on Netflix so this is the thing that they found that they could acquire to see if it works to be fair they could go on YouTube and steal podcasts and then train their AI models on it they just couldn't you know make AI podcasts yeah do you think this benefits more Netflix or Spotify I don't I think Netflix. I don't think about if it's either. It's TBD for Netflix because we don't know if Netflix users will respond positively or negatively to it, I guess. I think that Spotify is already set up to develop podcasts. They've been investing in making original podcasts for a very long time, so it's easy for them to sort of throw these things together. Netflix makes a lot of original content, but it's all TV. They don't have the infrastructure as much to just like develop original podcasts. But for Spotify, Netflix is the infrastructure of being able to play a podcast. podcast on your TV because Spotify doesn't have a way of doing that.

Exactly. Spotify doesn't want to put it on YouTube because that's a competitor for video stuff. So this is just like more distribution for them. Yeah, I don't know. This feels like when Mixer was like, let's get Shroud and Ninja over here and like just get these huge podcasts and you'll definitely want to come over and watch it and then nobody watched any of it and they just made a bag. So it sounds like 16 video podcasts are making a bag.

Like Netflix is realizing that they started, you know, with all the videos that they were making and then they started making original content and that was like their big sellers that they had all these good shows and then slowly all these other streaming platforms popped up and a lot of these other streaming publishers were owned by the tv networks and the cable networks and so they had sort of existing content that was more like tv content that was not as high quality so netflix was like oh well we're getting our lunch eaten by that they made lower quality content or at least i don't want to say quality but at least like easier to produce lower production costs Because people, yeah, people don't always want to be, like, only watching TV shows.

Sometimes they want to be using lower cognitive load, you know? Background noise. Are you saying Love Island is lower cognitive load? Yes, I am, Adam. It's more of like the cube and like the, what is the, what is those shows? The cut or something? The cut. Guys, we have done 317 episodes of us sitting at this table.

I don't know if we're the ones to talk about lower cognitive load. Yeah, well, anyway, I don't know. YouTube is the biggest streaming platform in the world. So Netflix is just realizing we have to have feature parity with the biggest streaming platform in the world. Yeah. On YouTube, users generate the content on Netflix. Oh, God, how do we get the content?

Yeah. I fear it is. That reminds me real quick. Side note. One of my friends was like, oh, I just got a new job. And I said, what is it? And she's like, oh, I'm making user-generated content. And I was like, isn't that just- You're a user?

Content? You're just making content as a user? Isn't that? I'm making videos for the company. I was like, why did they call it user-generated content? Isn't that just you're a content producer for the company? Isn't that the opposite of user-generated content? Yeah, that's...

I would assume the company wants the users to think. Oh, maybe. Oh, no. Like this person is... Well, don't they all do that? Yeah, they do not see the weird... Like on threads. Or have you not seen the most recent Samsung campaign?

That's a bunch of fake podcast clips. That's just one guy being like, I just switched from iPhone to Samsung, and it's so much easier than I ever would have thought. And that's user-generated content? Well, it's not always super clear that it's not a real pot. Like, it's like a vertical podcast clip. Yeah.

Ellis, you just set me up for the greatest segue ever. Because speaking of Samsung. Nice. Thank you. They were about to, they have a new event coming up next week. The October 21st, they're going to detail more information about the Project Mujan Android XR headset. We made a video about this in January.

It is now mid to late October. Yeah. What is this more information, just a release date, I guess? I suppose price release date. Google, I'm sure, is very excited about this, but it does seem like interesting timing because Apple has just announced the M5 Vision Pro. And so now they're going to release their Android XR headset,

probably running some Snapdragon something. No, it's going to have the M5. Yeah. If you want a refresher on all the things that this headset will do, just look back at our video in January. Yeah. We did a demo of like all these Gemini features and all these Android features. It's like having an Android tablet on your face and all these gestures and the eye controls and the eye controls and it'll be interesting to see how they compare.

Again, it's like comparing an Android phone to an iPhone is one thing, but comparing an Android headset to an Vision Pro almost doesn't make sense. Like I don't know if anyone's cross-shopping those things. Well, and it's ironic because if Apple can't even figure out anything for you to do with their version of the headset, then how is Samsung gonna, like everyone's making the glasses now. Even Apple is, like the rumor right now is that they, they put a pause on the low cost Vision Pro to switch over to making glasses. So now that Samsung is like Uber late to dropping this headset, it feels like they're just very late to it.

That's my main question looking at this is like Vision Pro has been in the super zoomed out grand scheme of things, kind of a flop. Yeah. Like sales wise, it's not super. successful as far as like users like there's not that many people using it every day it's just kind of a flop so it's a flop yeah so samsung's coming along finally dropping their competitor to it it's like why is that are we just just to have a parody with apple's ecosystem or do you really really believe the headset is the future it reminds me of the just all the different hype cycles we've gone through like

the metaverse and like all of these different hype cycles where companies will think okay we got to invest in this because this is what everyone is saying the future is. Yeah. And so they dump a ton of money and research and development into it. But just like the Nintendo Switch seems like the Switch 2, Nintendo Switch 2, seems like it was made for the COVID era because the whole thing is about the camera and like putting your friends' faces and social stuff. It seems like this was developed when everyone thought, okay, Vision Pro might be the future

of computing. And now everyone's like, oh, it's actually the classes. Kind of does feel like that. No one wants to miss out on the next ship setting sale. Exactly. It's better... So why not throw some money at it? Yeah.

It's better to have a flop than it is to miss the wave. Yeah. Just in case it unflops or something. Yeah. Yeah. This M5 Vision Pro is really going to take off, guys. It's really going to... Now that they have 10% higher...

Yeah, pixel rendering. It's definitely going to take off. Speaking of 10% higher pixel rendering. Wow. What a set-up thing? This has been an... All you. It's been a...

an iconic segue episode. What about 10? What did you want to say about 10? Farewell to our friend Windows 10. Ah. I was going to say Sionar, but that's what you say when you don't care. That something's going goodbye. And those 10 was like part of the cycle of like good and bad and it was on the good cycle.

Yeah. I think because eight was eight. Eight was Windows 8. They were like Windows A, everything's tiles. Next month, Windows 8.1. Everything's Windows 7 again. We really screwed this one up. We really didn't do that one, right?

But yeah, Microsoft actually isn't. They officially ended support for Windows 10 this week, 10 years after it's the launch. And I mean, obviously, all operating systems do this eventually. 10 years is plenty of time. Windows 11 has been out for five years. Is that true? It's been out for a little while if someone wants to find the exact date of that.

But I think when, I don't really, really have that much against Windows 11, to be honest, four years. Four years. Windows 11 isn't that bad, but Windows 10 was just better. That's where it was at. Yeah, it was where was that. So what I thought was funny about this is 40% of Windows users today are still using 10.

Valve says 30% of all PC gamers are still using Windows 10. There's a report. One of the big things about this that I think is really interesting is the switch to Windows 11 requires a lot of hardware requirements. So presumably a lot of businesses and enterprise companies using Windows 10 right now probably can't even upgrade to Windows 11. And in the enterprise world, like, people stay on old versions of operating systems for a long time. For many reasons, sometimes it's software, sometimes it's just they bought a batch of computers

and they want to run them until they die. Or just don't want to break any compatibility with stuff. Yeah, like government. They just run the same stuff forever. I worked at a company in like 2015 and we were still using Windows XP on like 20% of the computers we had in the office Yeah, I feel like XP was pretty famous for that

Like there are so many old and enterprise That just runs XP and it's bulletproof And it's just never gonna break and it was fine The greatest operating system ever made I skimmed my XP I told you guys this I skin my XP to look like Vista Because Vista looked good but at least at the time Yeah, I don't know

It was kind of cool. Didn't age very well. This was like liquid glass of 2000, whatever it was. It kind of looked cool, but I still had, I did not have the required GPU and RAM to upgrade to Vista. So I got a skin that I might have done a video about this that made it, I definitely did a video about this, made XP look like Vista. And it was not a good idea. Remember, it took a ton of system resources, but it looked like Vista. Remember when Microsoft launched Vista and they had the big party and they had like the casket with like a rip to Apple?

It was like Apple's funeral. Yeah, and it was when they launched. Oh, I miss that. Jesus. It was like, oh. Don't you guys know about the cycle? You played those cards wrong. Yeah, the cycle wasn't established.

Yeah, it was still early. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of was this. Was that the start of the cycle it felt like? Yeah. The big one. Because Windows 2000 was solid. And 2000 was right before XP.

So XP was goaded and then it went bad with seven. No, seven was good. Sorry, bad with Vista, good was seven. bad with eight yeah that's true it's kind of the beginning good with 8.1 wow with 10 well yeah uh so they will be offering uh it's weird they like closed it but they're going to be offering it's this is very confusing another year of security support for a payment for some people um also not only enterprises usually it was only enterprises that could do this but it seems like they're offering it to some users and it's kind of confusing you can get a year

of extended support for sixty one dollars europe fought this and it has to be for free. I believe also in the U.S. you have to download something called Windows backup and you do not have to in Europe. And then there's, I'm pretty sure you can do it for three years with like compounding payments on top of it if you want to continue to use, which a lot of these enterprises are probably going to have to do because that's still cheaper than upgrading computers. But what I've found the most interesting is I looked at the market share. We are going to talk about percentages. I was just looking at a couple of, like, who, what versions of Windows are still

being used. Apparently 9% of Windows desktop users are still on Windows 7. 0.3% are still on Windows XP. There you go. 0.3 sounds really small, but that is still thousands of people. What I want to know is half a percent of people are on Windows 8. Are you guys okay? Who is still on Windows 8?

Yeah. Half a percent. What if your computer? can't run Windows 10. Why did you go to Windows 8? What did it? What if you had a Windows 8 computer? A Windows 8 computer?

Like a Surface? I worked at a recording studio that we could not upgrade to Windows 10 specifically because the motherboard. We had a beefcake PC totally specced out, but the motherboard wasn't compatible with Windows 10. I'm interested in how many, I mean, I know this is still the thing, but Windows 10 released in 2015 so presumably the computer has to be at least 10 years old and running Windows 8 I'm it would have to be a beef of a computer in 2015 at like the latest to still be running I'm

sure I'm sure it's out there but I remember the conversation at this recording studio where it was like we have a $10,000 computer that that is totally fine that is now unsupported specifically because the random motherboard manufacturer we went with. I don't remember who made it, but... I have to assume some of these are also, like, the computer that runs the security camera system. Yeah, I worked at a hospital years ago that was using XP's because everything there,

like, it's not even that the hardware isn't compatible, is that the data is so sensitive that they don't want to do anything to lose it. So you can't, like, mess with it in any way unless you want to invest heavily in transferring it and backing it up and doing that whole thing. Also very funny that the data is so sensitive they're using something

that hasn't had a security update. You'd be surprised how sensitive data is just sitting on an old... It's probably also, like, locally or something. Sometimes it's that, or it's like this piece of hardware, this X-ray machine or this robot only works with this software on this OS.

My HOSABOD flex tight scanner, I had to buy a 2007 MacPro to run it because it only runs up to high Sierra. So it's air gap. I will never connect it to the internet. It's funny, I was going to mention this, and I guess I might as well. My home computer is a 2017 Intel IMac Pro, and I went to go update it to Tahoe this past weekend, and it's not supported. And I'm like, I guess I have to buy a new computer.

I mean, I don't have to. I could keep using it. You really want Tahoe on it. Yeah. But, yeah. I'm experiencing the same thing at home with my, aka your old, 2017 Intel MacPro. And it's funny, I was up very late last night, compiling binaries for Intel architecture, trying to get various add-ons and stuff to work.

It's over. Yeah. The dream is dead. I might have to go pop in an Apple store. I'm glad I quit that company. Now that we've said this, I want to hear all the extremely niche scenarios that some of our audience might be using an old version. My toothbrush. My toothbrush runs on Windows XP.

It's a sick toothbrush. also 25 years old. Two tunes. Two tunes, baby. But yeah, you know, we say goodbye to Windows 10, but in 10 years when we're still talking about Windows market share, and there's a 0.5% of Windows 10 users. It's going to happen.

We know you're out there. We'll be one of them. Funny enough, Windows also said, posted a teaser tweet yesterday, today, yesterday. Which will, it says, your hands are about to get some PTO waving emoji. Time to rest those fingers. Something big is coming. Thursday.

I emoji. It's a voice. It's something. It's got to be something AI related. Yeah, it's probably you can talk to your computer. But what are the chances it's Clippy? No. Not zero.

Never zero. It's never sure. That would be cool. I feel like there's got to be a reason they're not bringing Clippy back. Is there like a weird copyright or like trademark thing that they lost or? No. No, but we hate him so much we want it back now. It's easy to make fun of it literally.

But it's endearing. Instead of it. co-pilot they could have just done clippy and everyone would have loved it yeah it could have been awful and we would have been like yeah but it's clippy it's clip he was bad originally too it's just nostalgia he was always bad yeah yeah clipy was always pretty like if i got AI questions that were wrong with his clipy i'd be like ah you'll get them next time pal yeah exactly this is what maybe that's the key anthropomorphizing your bad AI is the key to making it accepted by regular Sort of, yeah.

I mean, the problem before was that it was Cortana, and then you're like, oh, dumb computer woman, which you can't do. That's bad. But Clippy. But now, yeah. It was just a friendly, smiling face, and it would pop up, and it would be, seems like, and it'd be like, no, get away. You're wrong.

But you would gently move it away. Yeah. Because you didn't want to. And now co-pilot is just this, like, amorphous. Orbatching ever. Yeah. It's like, what? Ellis, I feel like you would know this answer.

Was Cortana a direct reference to Halo's? Yeah, it was the same character, yeah. She was just annoying in the game, so, like, I always, I don't want, I just want to go mess around on the map. I don't want to listen to what I have to actually do right now. Now, Clippy, how? You've seen that? No, I haven't seen it, actually. I was going to say.

I'm referencing a movie I haven't seen. I was like, that's a slow burn movie. I would be very surprising. Mark, has that movie so long, it has an intermission. Yeah. Oh, it does. Yeah, it does. How long is it, how long is a movie with an intermission?

The intro is like eight minutes of just, like, guerrillas dancing. Whoa. And I definitely have not seen this movie. Wow. You, Marquez, you would really like it. I mean, I love the... It's only two and a half hours. Yeah, but it came out in...

It came out in 68. So two and a half hours back then was a long time. Was that two of your chest is? Yeah. Remember every 90s movie was exactly 90 minutes. There enough. Anyway, speaking of 10, we got one more 10 to talk about, but that will be after the break. Oh, that's kind of you, Marquez.

Yeah. It'll be a folding 10. Oh. I could fold. But before that, trivia. trivia dude said i could fold yeah yeah because i thought you were that i thought you were saying i was a 10 oh i get it so i've got one more time to talk about i said thank you god i totally miss that well earlier we spoke about shami what is the mascot for jami i will accept one point

for what it is and another point if you got its names which you won't get so the money Shao me as a mascot I feel like I've seen this I was just in China and there were Xiaomi cars everywhere and I feel like I saw the mask You know what it is All right

Or is that the PO No mind Well this The animal you're thinking of Is a mascot for a lot of things But I don't know if it's Xiaomi's mascot We'll say

It might be Well we'll guess Like we usually do At the end We'll be right back With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex.

Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.com. Hey, way from listeners, I want to tell you about a new podcast from the Vox Media Podcast Network called Access with Alex Heath and Ellis Hamburger. It's a show about the inside conversation happening across the tech industry. You may know Alex Heath from shows like Decoder and The Verge cast. He's a founder of Sources, the new publication about the tech industry and contributing writer for The Verge. And you'll probably only know Ellis if you've worked in Silicon Valley yourself.

He's a former tech reporter turned tech industry insider working closely with today's hottest startups. Their first episode features an interview with Mark Zuckerberg about Meta's latest smart glasses, the AI race, and what's next for the social media giant? You can find the access pod with Alex Heath and Ellis Hamburger on YouTube. YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the last 10 thing. And that is, unfortunately, the Pixel 10 Pro Fold is back in the news because Zach got his

hands on one. Did you guys see what happened to the Pixel 10 Pro Fold in Zach's test? Got fiery. So, yeah, it exploded. Okay, so here's what happened. He's tested the pixel folds before and they kind of have failed, not kind of, they failed his durability test, which is just bending it in half and snapping the. frame at the antenna lines and lighting the screen on fire and carving up with, you know,

putting a bunch of dust in the hinge and stuff like that. But this one, he somehow punctured the battery during his fold as well. I'm not even sure exactly how it happened. He thinks because of where the antenna line is, which has been the fault spot of the last couple folds, which they haven't changed, basically where the battery is, where that part, because it didn't crack at the hinge, which is very impressive for the hinge. The hinge is incredible. But where... Shout to the engineers. The engineers always there. But where the antenna line was, he thinks it was right around the edge of the battery to where the layers of what the battery are probably pinched together.

We're at the side where all of them are, and that costs us short. Yeah, thermal runaway. That's a good theory. No matter what, it's still crazy. I don't even know that this is obviously a one-off. Most people aren't treating their phones like Zach is, so I don't know how much this matters for Google PR. It's obviously not great. guess it's more chance it doesn't seem like it's one of those things that it's like oh this is a fault

in the phone it's going to do this all the time yeah it's like google's going to watch that video and be like oh wow one of our phones exploded let's see what happened and they're going to get nine minutes into him like torture the battery and it's like yeah oh he he's trying to do this so yeah obviously no phone has ever done that uh in his test before but it did look pretty bad on camera and it did explode that's like you said i doubt this actually happens but also he's done it to how many phones at this point. Yeah. Like, that was kind of weird.

There was a couple other things from the video I thought were interesting, though. The kind of like hidden camera, it's not really a camera, but the sensor next to the selfie sensor was kind of cool, mostly just because it winds up being a sensor with no lens that he's assuming is for, like, proximity. But when he kind of like pushed it with his knife, you could see it bowing in like it has the camera cut out. The hinge with the, because he did dust resistance, which was really extreme, because this is the first dust resistant.

Sand. I think it was like gravel. Yeah. It sounded real bad. It usually does. It was a lot. But I think it's fair to say that if some gravel gets into the hinge, the rest of the video it sounded crunchy, which is the last thing you'd ever want with a folding phone.

Yeah. And then the other thing I have is just, do you see the microphone hole? Yeah. It's kind of like the hole on the bottom is not the actual microphone. It is a like cylindrical hole that goes. goes in and then the microphones on the inside wall of that, I guess potentially enough people were sticking the SIM tray ejector tool into the microphone and damaging it. So now the microphone is kind of off to the side. It's clever. Yeah, we've all done it. Um, my question to Ellis,

and I don't know if he saw it is, wouldn't that potentially mess up how sound is getting into the microphone? Maybe a little. Now that it's not just right at the end of the, I'm assuming you didn't see it. You should hear me. I just, I just, I just power one. watched the video of where it explodes. But you're saying like because the mic is recessed into the case. Rather than being if like the case is flat and the microphone's right at the bottom of it, now there's a indentation that goes up and it's inside of that. So presumably sound goes into a cylinder now and goes into the side of the microphone.

I guess it's a phone call and no one really cares. There's also like it's there's actually reasons that could make things better. You know what I mean? There's also probably like five mics on this phone, right? I have no idea I typically yeah I think a lot of smart phones have like two three four mics

and then they are combining and that's the one at the bottom of the phone so it's just usually for phone calls and it's hearing your voice let me raise you this one okay like one of the most iconic mics of all time the SM 57 the sound goes in the top

but if you speak from the back you can't hear it's like the cardioid pattern right the way they achieve that is there's actually holes on the side of the mic so that if you're pointing it at your face it goes in that the face hole side first and then the stuff from the back goes in a little bit later

because sound has like a speed right and it goes in jets and jets enough later and bounces around all these sort of cavities that it hits it and actually like cancels out the sound coming from behind because of that temporal difference there's a lot of funky tricks you can do with like distance and tubes and stuff like that

so I don't feel qualified to say whether this is good or bad I think you're qualified that doesn't matter because no one's poking it anymore. Yeah. It's safe up there. True.

I have poked microphone. Have you really? Yeah. But I'm also someone who ejects SIM cards way more than the usual person. So I may just have a way bigger... Well, I have a larger sample size, and maybe there's just... Actually, there's been some phones where the... It's not going to...

I have none of these phones of SIM card trays, but it's been like the eject port for the SIM card tray is right next to a single. port where the microphone also is and it's very easy to yeah accidentally do one or the other or you can just be like me use your phone in a shower way too much and destroy the microphone that way that'll do it especially if it's not innovation water resistant well even in when it is now when i now when i leave a voice now it just goes shares me it's like the french dub yeah that's tough yeah yeah you know durability tests are one thing on the internet and i don't think this means if you have a pixel pro fold that it is likely to explode anyway but if another one

explodes maybe we'll be back here next week talking about that yeah yeah it's fun to watch this was a one-off thing because of some freak accident when he was folding it or do you think if he took that fold like a different ten pro fold and folded it again in the same way do you think it'll happen again like is it a flaw in that way or is it just like it happened randomly just where the pressure got put it also chance And it was also, it wasn't on the initial snap. It was when he was then bending it again after to kind of like straighten it out and do more. That's when it started going off.

So like, yeah, he thinks it's because it's just like perfectly at the edge of the battery crimped the edge, which then makes touches of all the different layers and then shorts it. So I think the potential's there. The potential probably was there almost just as much on past ones or maybe just the 10, the battery edge and the antenna line are like almost. So where it snapped, it got that perfect side of the battery. I don't know. Don't play with batteries like that. For the most part, there's always a great chance that could happen. Yeah, yeah.

The way I said on Twitter is it's both, it's simultaneously very unlucky and very lucky. It's very unlucky to have like the battery thermal runaway like that and very lucky that it wasn't worse and didn't like burn anything. Yeah. Did you catch, I think he they have his, because his audio is not live, but I'm pretty sure he said freaking heck there. And I was like, good job, Zach, for keeping this family friendly in the process. of a phone almost catching on fire in front of you? Yeah, if that happened, I'd just leave the room.

Which is what you should do. Then you're probably. It's possible. What? I would cover it with a towel. I'd rather not be in the house. Yes. Cover it with a bunch of...

If I can't see it, it's not happening. Cover it with other batteries from around it. That's how I usually live my life. All I know is that battery, thermal runaway is, like, you can't reach into the battery and stop it from happening. That reaction is going to take its course. You can't smother the oxygen away.

That's not the issue either. So all you can do is go, okay, if this lights anything else on fire, put that fire out. Yeah. But like the battery is going to do its thing. Once it starts, it's just going to get to the end of that process. One time I had an electrical fire and I just threw it in my sink. That's probably fine. Yeah.

Just like a metal box. Yeah, true. Yeah. This is not financial advice. This is not financial advice. All the fire department. Don't buy the $2 soldering iron. I learned the hard way.

That's good advice. It will catch on fire. That is good advice. All right, last little thing before we take it to trivia. Honor just dropped one of the weirdest concept phones that we've seen in a long time. We've seen a lot of weird concept phones. I'm looking at this. Yeah.

If you know what a DJI Osmo Pocket looks like, it's sort of this little camera that you can run around with. It's very compact, but it has a gimbal camera on the front, which means that it's like hyperstabilized. It can pivot on different axes. and this phone has it built in as one of its main camera sensors, which is crazy. So the camera like flips around the top of the phone and then it's basically on a gimbal. Is this a good idea?

I think it's a cool idea. It's hidden in the plateau where presumably it is the main sensor. It's just the name now. It slides over and then comes out from it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and then can pop up as a selfie camera and looks like it does. I mean, yeah, if you don't know what the Osmo is,

it's it's pretty much the camera on every DGI drone like Mavik and everything but on a little stick. So imagine a drone camera. Yeah, the Osmond Pocket is one of the most popular sort of just like quick run and gun YouTube cameras right now. Every single person at every single tech event has one of these. It's really good for it. The colors are amazing. I've heard that it's great. It's a good ass little.

Well, so this is what I'm saying. And I think that this is why they are making this concept phone is that in Instead of people just using their phone because the sensor is about the same size, people are still using this Osmo camera instead. So I think that they're thinking, what if we could put the Osmo in the phone? You know, it's funny? The more I think about this, like, I have seen phones for years try alternative selfie camera. Remember, like, this must have been, like, 10 years ago. Like the Oppo N3 maybe it was, which had a swiveling selfie camera.

Yeah. No, I thought, oh, no, find the FindX was the. the one that comes up. The first find out. We've seen that too. We've seen like motorized. Yeah, shark fin. I thought it was a Zen phone that did the flip up.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the Zenfoed six. It flipped from the back. So you had the back cameras turned into the selfie camera. The Oppo N3 is what I'm referencing, which is a similar thing. It's swiveled the back camera around to be a selfie camera. So once you get that extreme, you start thinking about what if you could also build in like bigger optics and like stabilization and a gimbal and all that?

Yeah. And probably software on the phone to, like, motorize around and get, yeah, cool shots. I mean, if you remember the LG wing? Yep. Yeah, you remember the LG wing? Of course. That had the gimbal software camera thing where it cropped into the sensor and it kind of felt like a gimbal that was kind of floating around.

There was a real gimbal. Was it? Well, this one. No, no. Oh, this is a real. Yeah, this one's real. Yeah, I don't know. I think this is cool.

I think that they see a market that has developed and they think, why don't, I thought the point was that people were supposed to shoot with their phone. And yet people are still buying these DJ Osmo pockets. So what if you just made it the same thing? I feel like my argument with that would be the pocket is really good at capturing like a ton of stuff. Like even one of the scenarios they have here is the phone is in their chest pocket with a little gimbal pointing up. It's like POV. Yeah, kind of early, yeah, like something you can capture all the time and like something you're doing, which for the Osmo they always talk about like connected to a backpack strap.

So you can do it while you're hiking where the pocket makes or the Osmo makes more sense because now I can still use my phone on the side. Like, if I'm going to a convention and I want to do me on the show floor, filming everything, I probably still want to use my phone, where this now, your phone is, what? This would look theoretically better. But you can't use your phone now because it's the thing capturing all of the content. Right.

I guess that's my argument on why. Alternatively. What I want a side thing with replaceable batteries and not killing my phone's battery. Alternatively, you just buy this as a camera and then you have an Android interface which you can edit on and you can upload from it. And cellular. The whole thing is, like, its own little contained device, and you can still have a separate phone. I think I'm in on it.

This also just highlights to me how we have literally no competition in the United States. Just think of what we could have. This is a concept. I know. This is a good idea if the tech can be shrunken down and the gimbal can actually be good in a package so small it fits inside the camera plateau of your phone. That's the big if. And they can probably build a one-off and it'll be a cool concept for W.

Opos, Xiaomi. They've all done really weird stuff. I feel like they could do this. I will believe it when I see it. This is a perfect example of I'll believe it when I see it. I'm trying to imagine how thick the Osmo Pocket is and if I think that can get into a reasonably sized phone and I don't think it's possible.

Even if you'll believe it when you see it, we don't have any U.S. manufacturers out here that are just like messing around with this because we have no competition. Yeah. So I want to see it. Yeah. I want to believe it.

Yeah, I want to believe. It would be cool. I feel like all the competition over on this side is soft. now it's all ecosystem lock-in based yeah they're not really experimenting with hardware like this yeah that's true I'm rooting for the Wally phone and shitification baby Wally phone all right well I think with that we should do a little t t t t t t t t t t t trivia dude that that dude that's right nice a done trivia

Guys, when we switched to Windows 11, we lost two legendary pieces of Windows software. And they're not lost. They're just not bundled anymore. And one of them has a pretty big asterisk. What were they? We got to find something new to fill this gap with. I like the pensive thought one. Yeah, I knew.

Yeah, maybe. It just starts freestyling over. All right. All right, boys. I'm going to be so mad when I hear this. What do my? Oh, my God. All right, David.

I said direct X. Okay. And I also said paint 3D. Oh. Yeah. Because remember when Windows AR was going to be a thing in 2015? Oh, yeah. Jesus.

And they made paint 3D. That happened. Yeah. All right. I just said Mind Sweeper. I put Mind Sleeper as well. And I put Internet Explorer. Oh, because Internet Explorer was one of them.

That was the one with the asterisk, though. Because Edge? Oh. Because Edge has an Internet Explorer mode, and technically, technically, Internet Explorer is bundled with Windows 11. It is just hidden from UserView. If you have an application that is specifically written to open Internet Explorer, it will still open it. But you yourself as the user cannot open Internet Explorer.

The other one was. Pinball. Space Pinball. Skype. Oh, because they killed Skype. Because they replaced it with team. Yikes. Yeah.

What how far they fall? Marquez, after that correct answer with 7. Andrew with nine, still in the lead, David with one, two, carry the one, five. It's my turn to feel a pain. Wow. Okay, question number two. That's not bad. That's not bad. A bunch of prime numbers.

Oh, interesting. Never mind. What was or what is Xiaomi's mascot? One point for the name, one point for the thing itself. Show me the money. It's a pile of cash. Ellis will now freestyle over this break. No. No, I won't. I won't. Maybe. Maybe one day, but not today.

What if I drop a beat underneath this? What I, would I rap about Xiaomi? Xiaomi. Xiaomi. Xiaomi. All right. You guys know, Xiaomi makes cars, right? S.C.7.

Mm-hmm. S-U-9. Let me read. What do we got? Okay. Oh, my God. I said a red panda. And that's totally fine. I'm glad I wrote it anyway.

And I said its name was Clippy. Good guess. And by that I mean terrible guess. I just wrote a car. I think someone made a joke about that. And then I thought I actually remembered hearing something similar. And then I just wrote its name was Zhaomi. Not a bad guess.

I put a cat, but I was thinking of real meow. Yeah, you're thinking of real me. Yeah. Real meow was the name. Okay. And what did you get for the name? Hypercat. That's a good guy.

I guess, but no. This, is this like, we've talked about this before, haven't we? I feel like we might have at some point. Or it might have been what David said, the cat thing. What is it? It was something like that. The actual mascot was named Me Too, M-I-T-U, and it is a white rabbit. Me-too.

Yeah. Kind of like a copy cat? But it's a rabbit. Yeah, I can do that, too, Apple. The irony is crazy with that one. Oh, he's kind of cute. Yeah, he's kind of cute. So no one gets a point here, unfortunately.

It's not like the creepy rabbits with the red eyes. I always think like Velveteen rabbit. Velvetine? Yeah. It's a book. No, it's a really weird old book. But like, yeah, it does. The creepy red-eyed rabbits.

Some of us read children's books from the 30s. It is a good night moon. Well, that's what happens. When you don't know the trivia answers, y'all learn something. And I'm glad we've learned something today. other than that that was a fun episode we'll be back of course with more regularly scheduled programming soon if you haven't already seen it go check out the adam missouri interview where we talked to him about all things instagram and the creator economy etc other than that other than that see you next week

wait for us produced by adam olina and ellis rovin we're part of the vox media podcast network and try outro music it's created by vansil the olden, that's 20 years ago.