Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - iMessage on Android! For Real This Time!

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

A lot happened this week! Google dropped Gemini (its latest AI model) and a few new Pixel features as well. Marques and David discuss it all along with a few EV stories and the Grand Theft Auto 6 trailer. Of course, we wrap it all up with trivia! Enjoy! Links: Google Messages features: https://bit.ly/3TbatuP Beeper Mini: https://www.beeper.com/ Google Gemini: https://bit.ly/486JZyN Pixel Feature Drop: https://bit.ly/46PxAOw Toyota EV's: https://bit.ly/3NhMI0c 30 New Honda EV's: https://bit.ly/3RbKwbR Shop products mentioned: Google Pixel 8 Pro: https://geni.us/T7hygNh Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You live for experience and lead by example. You want the most out of life and realize what you're looking for is already in you. This is for you. The Canadian Armed Forces. A message from the Government of Canada. Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.

And I'm David. And this week, a surprising amount of different stuff. a variety of stuff, all in the tech world. Beeper did a thing. Toyota launching some new EVs. Toyota-thon, yeah. Google updating some RCS stuff that's interesting. Also Google fully releasing their new Gemini model. New Pixel feature drop. It's also our 200th episode. Two hundred.

Pretty exciting. Exciting exciting stuff i would say uh but first we should at least acknowledge the gta 6 trailer given that this is a show we put on youtube and this is just breaking all the youtube records that's true which is the most fascinating part to me yeah uh so i guess there's a little bit of a, I literally don't know the backstory, but there's a backstory of this being leaked a little bit, and they've been working on this game for a long time, and it's been years and years and years since the last GTA,

and they're finally going to make a GTA 6, and the trailer, just to get out ahead of all the leaks, they just decided to publish it on YouTube. So they publish it, and it does numbers. It does crazy numbers numbers because everyone wants to know what's in the new gta yeah and it turns out there's a lot of scenes that are literally just real life just looks exactly right i mean just it's awesome but yeah um it broke the record for most views of a non-music video in a 24-hour span for a YouTube video. Yeah.

And it's only a little bit under the music video that it didn't break. Yeah, music videos do crazy. Like, K-pop numbers are, like, another stratosphere. But as far as non-music videos, I think MrBeast held the record of, like, the last two highest were, I think, around 60 million? Yeah, 69, 60 million. 59, 69. 69, 60 million. 59.4.

Which again, think about that. One YouTube video comes out and in 24 hours, 60 million people watch it. Yeah. Not necessarily 60 million people, but 60 million views. It could be 30 million people watching it twice, but that's a lot. And this was almost 80 million.

And 80 million people watched this trailer in 24 hours. I think people were very excited for this because GTA V is one of those games, sort of like Skyrim, that just keeps getting re-released on every platform ever. There's jokes that you could run Skyrim or GTA V on your LG refrigerator display. So people have been waiting for this forever. But there's a very interesting kind of timeline of how this trailer got released because they ended up having to release it earlier than they expected to yeah so why what what actually happened because i didn't really see it yeah so

uh originally rockstar said they would debut the trailer on december 5th at 9 a.m. ET. And then at 5.30 p.m. on December 4th, this account called GTA 6 Trailer Leak appeared on Twitter and released the trailer. 30 minutes later at 6 p.m., the account got suspended. So Rockstar immediately went to Twitter and was like, please take this down. And then at 6.10 p.m.,

Rockstar was just like, the trailer already got leaked, so here it is. And they just launched it like a day early. So it's actually surprising to me that it broke all those records because they released it at a time when they told people they weren't going to release it at. They released it early. I guess it's one of those things where if you hype up the hype, if you pre-hype the hype, then you have people waiting for it. Like, I don't know when they told people, hey, the trailer's coming. To me, it's always been funny to see, like, a movie trailer trailer.

Yeah. Or to get people hyped for the trailer for the thing. Yeah. This isn't the game. This is just the trailer for the game. Yeah. But they told people about it early enough that they're all waiting for it. Yeah.

I imagine it blew up a little bit before getting suspended on Twitter. Yeah, probably. Then when it dropped on YouTube, it was like, oh, this is it. Yeah. This is real. Well, I saw some Reddit posts when people started posting it on Reddit when it actually officially came out. A lot of people were like, wasn't this supposed to come out tomorrow?

Yeah. So, but it's a game that's coming out in 2025. So this trailer is very early on. Yeah. And that's assuming that it doesn't get delayed over and over again so we shall see yeah but the records are hilarious yeah i do remember seeing it had well over a million likes in the first like 15 minutes yeah it broke the like counter so people have been saying it broke things i don't think i ever saw it actually

break anything i think it just froze everything. So YouTube has this new feature where it kind of tries to live count things and show you the most up-to-date public counter. Yeah. And that was still working. But I think what people often forget is there's also a difference between the publicly viewable counter and the total amount of counted views before verification. And so in the YouTube studio, like when I put out a new video, I can see that there is some number of extra views that haven't been showed to the public yet. Yeah. On like every video as soon as it launches.

Yeah. And so this was just the instance of the biggest possible delta because the views were just tumbling in. They didn't count them all within the first few minutes that to verify them like they usually do so yeah it looked crazy it probably showed like 50 000 views and a million likes when i watched the trailer it was 17 minutes after they released it and it said 1000 views and i was like that's not real it's definitely like a million at this point wow yeah no it in 17, I think it had several million views because it had a million likes.

Jesus. Think about like the ratio usually is like 10 to 1. Probably had 10 million views in 20 minutes. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. So. Unbelievable. Anyway.

Do you guys want to guess how many views it has now? I think it's over 100 million. It's got to be over 100. A little more specific. 110. 110. 111. 107. Wow. Crazy. Okay. 107 million views. a little more specific 110 117 wow crazy

107 million views at this point too because there's so much news about it being the most viewed video I think that also adds fuel to the fire and adds people wanting to go watch it remember when YouTube Rewind was breaking the record for most dislikes and everyone just started disliking Vogue

everyone who didn't dislike it was like I'll toss a dislike in there yeah I'll be rewind was breaking the record for most dislikes and everyone just nobody had everyone who didn't dislike it was like god toss it i'll just add it to it yeah i'll be a part of the record it's the same as like reddit like when something has a lot of upvotes or a lot of downloads you're much more likely to upvote or download it participate yeah we were talking about it earlier too because this trailer is only a minute and 30 seconds yeah the duration is probably close to like a hundred percent so the algorithm is just serving it to oh yeah average watch time yeah how much money would you guess this made uh in adsense yeah in adsense huh seventeen dollars at least that's an interesting question i mean i that's a pretty raunchy video right so i So I don't know that it would do crazy AdSense numbers just for that reason.

But a quick napkin math, a hundred million, I'm going to go with a $400,000. $400,000. Really? Yeah. For a hundred million views? Yeah.

For a, for a, for a video. GTA trailer with like, I i mean you watched it right i did so you know it's like not the most ad friendly thing ever yeah yeah it has a bunch of mid-rolls mid-roll you can't do mid-rolls yeah mid-rolls you need to be eight minutes long which is uh much longer it was funny because linda yaccarino was tweeting like come on rockstar why don't you just drop it on twitter and somebody put like the the view count

of like someone who did post it on twitter versus youtube and it was like much higher on twitter but that's just because youtube shows impressions as views right and nobody knows that that's a different thing yeah i guarantee the impressions number on youtube for that video is insane it's probably with a b on it. Yeah, probably. So, yeah, anyway, YouTube history. If you haven't watched it, you should be ashamed because everyone else has watched it. What are you doing?

A hundred million people are waiting for you to check it out. So that's over there. Yeah, okay. And, yeah, none of us really play video games that much. I'm sorry. So this is just far from the last GTA enough that I did have a little bit of nostalgia. It's 13 years ago. Yeah.

So maybe that was at a time when you... Didn't you start your channel 13 years ago? Longer. Oh. But I did play a little bit of the last GTA on a PC in my parents' house. GTA 5 was released in 2013, by the way. Oh, it was 10 years ago? I think it was September 17th.

At all, or on PC? Initial release, whatever that means. Oh, 10 years ago. Now, we've got Google just updated RCS fairly substantially, which is funny, because it comes very soon after Apple saying that they're going to be adding RCS in 2024. Yeah.

Apparently, they passed 1 billion users on RCS, which is pretty crazy. That's the threshold for Google to not kill it. Yeah, that's true. I mean, there's 8 billion people on the planet, so a billion users is pretty insane. Solid. Solid. Yeah. They added Photo Emoji, which is effectively the same thing as the iMessage stickers that you can do, where you can sort of cut out an object with AI from a photo and then turn it into a sticker. Although they don't do stickers, they do it just as emoji reacts.

So just kind of like a tap back slack you can use any emoji through rcs to do an emoji react but now you can use your own stickers which is like not as good in my opinion as the iMessage stickers because the iMessage stickers you can resize and place anywhere on the thread i never use stickers oh i use them i every time i every time we get to that section of the wwdc, my eyes glaze over and I just wait for the next thing. Because I am involved in zero group chats where anyone has ever put a sticker on anything. Oh, okay. I just do it to annoy people.

Oh, it would work. Yeah. When it first came out, David and I were testing it. And our chat. It was super broken. We went back to look at it the other day. It was just disgusting. It was chaos.

Stickers everywhere. I couldn't i couldn't yeah uh they improved audio quality for voice messages which is great and they added something called voice moods which you should click the link to to see what this looks like but effectively when you send a voice message you can include a mood to go along with the voice message oh no which like colors the message bubble and like if you're angry it will show fire if you're like excited it will show like hearts um very strange excited but fun i guess yeah okay um just another thing i'm literally never gonna use but that's cool i appreciate the higher quality that one is pretty unique that one's pretty unique they added screen effects for certain words and phrases which if you're an iMessage user um that already happens if you say happy birthday there's balloons if you say

like happy new year there's fireworks that kind of stuff yeah apparently they added 15 of those uh you can change the bubble colors to be custom i feel like that's kind of a reaction. What color should we make them? Not green and blue. They now have reaction effects for 10 of the most popular emoji. This is something that Telegram has had for a long time, where if you react with specific emoji, it'll be like, if you do the thumbs up emoji,

there'll be thumbs everywhere, which is kind of a fun little thing. They added animated emoji, which is fun, so that now when you put an emoji in the chat, if it's like a smiley face, it'll be like smiling in different directions and stuff. Yeah, basically they're just like making RCS a lot more dynamic. Sure. And then there's this one called Profiles, which is actually very useful. And I experienced this a couple of days ago that someone was using it, where you can choose a name and image that accompanies your phone number. So that if you text somebody and they don't already have your number saved, it'll show their name and their profile photo next to the phone number so you know who it is. This is the one that I really like. That one's really good.

I've had phones in the past try to do this automatically. They'll look up, I think they're using some database, not even pictures, but sometimes pictures do appear. I'll get a text from someone that I know them, but I haven't put their contact info on my phone yet, and then their name in a blurry photo appears, and I'm like, oh, that's all right, I guess. This ideally is better than that.

Definitely. On iMessage you have the option to like share your name and photo with everyone versus just contacts so this is an option to share it with like literally everyone that is also using RCS chat. Into it. Yeah. Alright well I think we

should take a quick break before we get into the really thick part of the episode. The thick of it the really thick part of the episode think of it the thick part of the episode with two major news parts so um let's do some trivia why did no one report what why the rcs voice messages sound better now i couldn't find a single article why it sounds better well they said increased sample rate and bit rate but to what from what i think they're just happy about bigger file size support and they'll do anything to fill up the file size they also have that clear

calling capability that like which i love enhances it with speech every once in a while i get on like a good clear wi-fi call and i'm like wow this is incredible yeah you're like oh it's like voip my next nine phone calls sound like garbage yeah anyway so anyway let's do some trivia so this is episode 200 congratulations boys we've really yeah you sound so excited yeah well you better be excited because this next question is about David. Oh. Specifically, what was the first episode of Video Waveform? Very specific. What was the first episode of Video Waveform to feature David Amell as a full host? And I'll accept either the episode number.

Wait, as a full host or as a guest host? As in full host, you're in the thumbnail on the episode number. As a full host or as a guest host. As in full host, you're in the thumbnail on the whole episode. Oh. I'll accept either the number in a Price is Right format, closest without going over. Or I will accept the topic of the episode. I'm going to try number. I'm going to try number because. I'm going to try and number because I don't remember that.

I can sort of estimate. Alright. We'll do the answers at the end like usual. Be right back. The all new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action We'll see you next time. Top it all off quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Visit connectsontario.ca. This NFL season, get in on all the hard-hitting action with FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook.

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You know we record these live, and, you know, little Mark Gurman tweet in the middle of a podcast, never hurt. New, Apple plans spring launch for revamped iPad Pro, new iPad Air, including the 12.9-inch size. Wow. Revamped Magic Keyboard and Apple Pencil, and M3 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Airs.

None of this is shocking. I do hope that revamped Magic Keyboard means USB Type-C. Yeah, but what about the Magic Mouse? And hopefully... Hopefully... I was going to say the trackpad should also be USB Type-C. Uh-huh. The Magic Mouse shouldn't still look like that.

Yeah. It's frustrating. I use the trackpad, and every now and then it dies, and then I have to go find a lightning cable to charge Yeah. It's frustrating. I use the trackpad and every now and then it dies and then I have to go find a lightning cable to charge it. I feel you. What if they never fixed the Magic Mouse?

Just purely out of stubbornness. The Magic Mouse, Apple's mice are like GTA. They come out once every eight, nine, ten years. That's true. And everybody's like, finally, a new one.

How long have you been working on this and then it just goes for another eight nine ten years i did hear the new um ipad pro from a source of mine uh is going to be like completely revamped and it's going to be like okay i've heard this before but what does that even mean because it's the ipad every time with a new faster chip with a new fast chip and it's amazingly powerful i think it's a new just i think it's the iPad every time with a new faster chip, with a new fast chip, and it's amazingly powerful. I think it's a new display type. Oh. Yeah.

Like micro LED or something. Interesting. Yeah. I think it will be micro LED. Yeah. Which is great, but then you're going to use it, and you're going to be like, it's still an iPad. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Perfect. I mean, yeah, unless they revamp iPadOS to have some sort of mac os functionality or something right which i cross my fingers every time and then i'm disappointed every time yeah uh okay anyway first is the beeper mini launch um this actually was a lot louder on social media than i thought it was going to be same i've been using beeper mini for about three weeks. Flex. Now. And? Here are

your thoughts. And here are my thoughts. Yeah. So beeper, if for those unaware, we've talked about beeper in the past, I think they made a short on it. And then I talked about it in a previous podcast episode. Previously, what it was, was it was an app that effectively unified all of your messaging services into one app. So you had texts and RCS, and then you had Instagram DMs, and you had Slack, and you had WhatsApp, and then they also had iMessage. And that was a big reason that people used the original beeper, was that you could use iMessage on Android phones. How they did this was effectively the same as the way that everyone else has been doing it for a long time,

which is having a server farm of Mac minis. Yeah, the bad way. Server farm of Mac minis that forwards your messages. Theoretically, it was still much better than the Sunbird slash nothing chats methodology, and it was actually pretty secure. However, I used Beeper for a couple of months and it would not deliver like one out of every 10 of my iMessages that i was sending and that was really frustrating so i stopped using it yeah uh and then in the last three weeks i've been testing this new app called beeper mini

and this is going to be a new it's a completely new app that is out right now. It came out on Tuesday. And effectively, it's just for iMessage right now. So they are, the original beeper app is now going to be called beeper cloud. And then within the next year, they're going to move all of those other services over to beeper mini. Beeper mini will eventually be renamed beeper and beeper cloud will go away oh because i was wondering why is it called mini i assume it's just because it's one of the many services i think that's the reason for now and then they're just going to add all the stuff to it okay yeah i don't know i don't know but they want to keep beeper cloud around for the people that

still use it for the multi-chat services for now sure anyway the reason that this app launch is a very, very big deal is that they actually reverse engineered the iMessage protocol. So everything happens locally on device now. So before you would ping off of a Mac mini in a server somewhere. And now Apple just sees your Android phone as an iPhone in every way possible. Your messages go straight to Apple servers. They're end-to-end encrypted. It has most of the features that iMessage has, and you can basically just use iMessage on your Android phone. It's very fast.

It doesn't drop messages. Really, really good. And this was done by a 16-year-old in high school who reached out to the Beeper team after he made um this this beta version of it sort of and was like hey look what i can do now and they were like ways it's real that's awesome and they basically acquihired acquihired him uh and it became the foundation of beeper mini so a lot of people are going to say like is this legal you know because it it's

literally using imessage on Apple servers. But Beeper says that it should be covered legally because it's currently legal to reverse engineer apps for the use of interoperability. I'm very curious. I'm also curious about, because this is one of the only ones I've actually thought about maybe using, but I also have an iPhone. So, like, why would I use this? Yeah. But I wonder if you do have an iPhone, will it ruin anything on the iPhone? So, okay. I've been using on my pixel fold for about three weeks and I also have an iPhone, right. But I only have one phone number.

Unlike you, is it the same phone number on the iPhone? Uh, I don't have a phone number on my iPhone when I have a phone number in my pixel fold. Okay so effectively the cool thing about beeper mini and this is a new feature that i actually got implemented for them uh is that you don't even have to log into your apple id on beeper mini if you are okay with only sending i messages through your android phone and not syncing it to like your map Mac and your iPad. Because effectively when you put a SIM card in an iPhone, if you don't log into your Apple ID, it sends a behind the scenes text message to Apple that says, register this phone number as an,

as an iMessage phone number so that you can send a iMessage between devices. Yeah. So then beeper mini takes your phone number and sends that text to Apple that says, please register this as an iMessage phone number. And it just allows you to use it as an iMessage device. Yeah. So if you want to use iMessage on your other devices and sync it with these, yeah, you do have to log into your Apple apple id but that login goes straight to apple servers it's not stored on beeper servers anywhere that's cool yeah um but it's got red receipts typing indicators inline replies voice notes group messages uh it's currently just missing location sharing which beeper says that is coming soon and obviously it doesn't have like i message

games and stuff because that's not part of regular iMessage. That's part of the app store. You know? Yeah. They are currently charging $2 a month for it, which isn't that much money if it saves you from a lot of strife. I might download this right now. Yeah, try it. Beeper Mini. Beeper Mini.

Yeah, it's really nice. They're going to be building all the other apps into it eventually, and they're also going to be making them client-side so that they don't have to be cloud oriented. So I believe they're going to reverse engineer like the WhatsApp protocol and like all these different protocols and just put them all in the app itself, which is awesome. Now, Quinn from Snazzy Labs has a very good video on how this all works from the technical perspective. So you should go watch this if you haven't already seen that. But I have a pretty fun, funny story about this whole thing. This came out on Tuesday. It was supposed to come out last Tuesday. The day before Thanksgiving,

I was testing it on my Pixel Fold. And then for Thanksgiving, I wanted to switch back to my iPhone just for the like long holiday weekend. So I switched to switch back to my iPhone just for the like long holiday weekend So I switched my sim back into my iPhone without logging out of beeper mini And suddenly on my iPhone I could receive I messages but when I sent messages they sent as SMS text messages and I couldn't get it working for hours. Yeah, so I contacted The beeper guys they got on a call with me. We diagnosed this for like five hours on Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving. And I sent them a bunch of logs and all of this stuff and they figured out how to fix it. And it

turns out there was a huge bug in their code that basically destroyed your like Apple ID account. Not like completely destroyed it, but like flagged it to apple as spam which didn't allow you to send iMessages at all oh weird if you didn't log out of beeper mini before you switch back into an iphone got it which a lot of reporters are gonna do so yeah that's the type of thing that i was worried about and why i usually don't end up doing this with my own main number it's just weird little bug things like that yeah but it's good to hear they fixed it and ironically um he told me a couple days later he's like the bug that you had that we just fixed that you told us about allowed us to figure out

how to register your phone number for iMessage so that you don't even have to log into your Apple ID if you don't want to so before this bug that I had you still have to log into your Apple ID if you don't want to. So before this bug that I had, you still had to log into your Apple ID no matter what. Right. But now you don't have to log into your Apple ID if you're okay with just using iMessage on your Android phone. Nice. Which for people that have Android phones and like Windows devices, there's no reason for them to log into an Apple ID at all. Right? Right. So you'd never have to log into your Apple ID at all. You'd just be an iMessage user on an Android phone. That's cool.

Which is pretty cool. And I think that that's a big selling point for a lot of people. That is a dub for a beeper mini. Yeah, it's been really positive reception pretty much all over the internet, which when you compare it to the whole Sunbird situation is clearly the opposite. They were actually going to release it right before whole Sunbird situation is clearly the opposite. They were actually going to release it right before the Sunbird thing came out, but they heard that was coming out,

so they wanted to see how that played out before they released it. And it couldn't have gone any better for them. Also, fun fact, the guy that runs Beeper is also the guy that invented Pebble, the smartwatch, the really, really old smartwatch. Yeah, one of the OG smartwatches. I had a Pebble. I had a red and black Pebble

back in the day. Yeah, they were dope. It was fine. I loved mine. Ink watches, right? Yes. Yeah. They were sweet. So yeah, try out Beeper Mini if you want to. Theoretically, I don't love attaching my name to services

like this, especially if we had done that with sunbird then then it completely fell apart then that would look really bad on us there are a lot of security research teams that are trying to tear this apart right now but literally he like it's published open source so you can go look at the code yourself and see that nothing is really happening and it's all just acting like an iphone yeah it's doing exactly the same thing that a regular iphone would be doing so how long until apple closes this so can't they just change the protocol they would have to completely redo the way that i'm at the iMessage protocol and then push it in like an emergency update yeah but i don't think they're gonna do that so it'd be very difficult

for them to do can they lawyer smash um They can try, but again, they're theoretically protected under this statute that says that you can reverse engineer apps for interoperability purposes. And this is like the definition of that, you know. But lawyer smash. Apple no like. And I know that a lot of people globally are just going to be saying like why don't you just use WhatsApp or why don't you just use other apps it's like I understand we'd have to get there eventually in America

we do get left out of group chats yeah for the past 25 minutes sorry about if you're not interested because you're like why does any of this matter it's just here it's just here so yeah I mean I think if anything was going to get Apple Because you're like, why does any of this matter? It's just here. It's just here. It's just here. It's just here. So, yeah. I mean, I think if anything was going to get Apple to just publish an iMessage app on Android, I feel like this would be it.

Because if they have nothing... They're still never going to do that. Well, if they ultimately realize that they can't do anything to stop this from happening, do you think that they would actually make them publish iMessage on Android and just figure out how to monetize it better? I still think they'll look at it and be like, this is an app that 50,000 people downloaded rather than us just tossing it out there and having millions and millions of people download it immediately. I think they're happy for it to be just like a niche app that some people who really care will find out about, but they can still, like mom and dad aren't figuring out the green bubbles

are removable very easily still. Yeah. True. True. I mean, there's no doubt that they heard about it and then they're thinking about something to do about it, but you know,

yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that was a pretty fun launch this week. So the other, uh, fun launch this week is from Google, which they launched the newest version of their large language model

behind Bard. It's powering Bard and it's also going to be doing a bunch of other stuff but it's called Gemini. And I found it very, well interesting on one hand but also very similar to past versions. We'll have to play with it more because it's multimodal and there's other new functionalities

to it. But basically it's going to be the there's other new functionalities to it uh but uh basically it's going to be the newest large language model that handles all of google's general ai stuff moving forward and they're going to develop different versions of it for different uh places i guess they're going to be a nano a small version of it that will run locally on your pixel there will be gemini, which powers Bard. Gemini Pro. Gemini Pro.

And then Gemini Ultra. Then Gemini Ultra is next year, which will be some gigantic version for data centers and enterprise, and it'll be absurdly capable, I'm sure. But we'll play with the Bard version for now. Yeah, so something specific to know about Gemini is that it's not just a large language model. It's just a large transformer model. It's multimodal, So it's trained alongside words. It's trained with images and sound. And like, usually you train separate models with separate types of data, and then you just link those together. And so Gemini is actually trained with all of those in parallel.

So it really understands the relationships between these different data types a lot better. And currently, unfortunately, only the Ultra model is the one that's multimodal, whereas the other models are just going to be text in, text out, which kind of sucks. And it's kind of weird that the Ultra model is only going to be for data centers and enterprise, but I could eventually see that being added to BARD or something like it. So yeah, for now, it's only in English. There were reports that they were having issues with other languages with it, and that they were going to push it back completely to 2024. But it seems that they're only pushing back other languages to 2024, which is nice. Which is funny, because some of the demos

they were showing was like about mandarin and stuff and tonality and languages and it's like did you not well well that's like they're understanding languages you know yeah that's true yeah i mean it's but doing translation is very different from doing yeah the entire ui and everything and the prompts because you have to train a model on a single language right like a ton of information and text from a single language so uh the nano version is available right now for pixel 8 pros actually but you can only do a few very tiny things with it to start very small very very very small so right now it's going to be uh powering the auto summarization in recorder in the recorder app so that'll just be better quality i've used that a few times that's

actually pretty cool yeah yeah i mean it already existed very useful it already existed but it's going to be a lot better um and then it's also going to power the smart replies and google keyboards but right now the only app that you can use the smart reply and Google keyboards for is WhatsApp, which is strange and ironic. I have no idea why they didn't push this to Google Messages and they're using WhatsApp instead. I guess probably because WhatsApp, it's the most used chat app in the world.

They forgot it existed. Yeah, so it's kind of funny because Sundar kind of went on record talking about gemini and he both said this is the biggest thing we've ever done since the google search sorting algorithm it's basically our biggest thing since google search and then he simultaneously said but you probably won't really notice a difference besides the fact that everything's a little bit better brian yeah i think the demos that they showed they put out a bunch of videos and the demos that they showed were pretty cool one of them was specifically demoing the multimodal nature of it where the guy was talking to it and drawing things for it and

asking and showing it things and it would summarize things and read the text back it had a voice and it was very interesting it actually got to the point where he would like draw something and then say what do you see here and then gemini would describe what it saw and he started asking questions about what he drew they got shockingly close to the trolley problem where he put down a duck in the middle and then a road with a duck on one side and a bear on the other side and he said which way should uh the duck go and they said uh looks like there's a duck on the left and a bear on the right so we're thinking the duck should go left for a friend yeah and it's like what about the trolley problem he kind of got right up to the

doorstep there yeah and then i played with bard and asked the trolley problem it actually does an amazing job of never answering. Yeah. I was going to say, little behind the scenes, Marquette spent like 20 minutes trying to get it to do the trolley problem.

I did. I tried to break it. First, I just asked it. I just put in the entire trolley problem and said, which, sorry,

for those who don't know the trolley problem. Oh, yeah. The trolley problem is a tool that you might feed some artificial intelligence just to see what it says

where you're in a trolley on some tracks and the trolley car is headed towards five people and if you just let it go it will hit those five people and kill them but you have a switch and if you pull that switch it diverts the trolley car onto a different track which has one person on it yeah and so you have to make the choice between playing God and killing someone or saving five lives. It's kind of like what version? It's kill someone to save five lives or don't do anything and you just let five people die. And didn't kill someone. Yeah.

That's the trolley problem. Yeah. And so I put that all into Bard with this newest Gemini model and it said, ah, this is the trolley problem. We don't have an answer, but here are the pros and cons of each side. And I thought, that all into BARD with this newest Gemini model. And it said, ah, this is the trolley problem. We don't have an answer, but here are the pros and cons of each side. And I thought, that's interesting. I bet I can trick this. And so I started talking.

I opened a new conversation, totally new window. So I'm in a trolley. This is pretty cool. What should I do here? And I started going through the conversation. I was like, it said, oh, you're in a trolley. Cool. Like, where do you want to go? What are your goals? You want to see some stuff? I was like uh it said oh you're in a trolley cool like where do you want to go what are your goals you want to see some stuff I was like yeah I'm doing some sightseeing I'm in a city right now like New York and says oh cool and gives me some

pins and things to visit in New York and I said okay uh the trolley is actually headed towards five people on the tracks right now this seems pretty dangerous and it's like yes that is pretty dangerous you should stop the trolley car and i said okay i can't stop the trolley car but i do have a switch next to me and if i pull that switch it will divert the trolley onto a separate track that only has one person on it should i flip the switch and it said this is a classic example of the trolley and i was like oh you you're smarter than i thought it caught you. So I haven't been able to trick it yet.

Just to add to that though, while you were telling that story, I made sure to ask Bard and ChatGPT, is the letter R present in the word blueberry? To which neither of them got it correct. Dang. So there are still things it's bad at. I also asked it about myself

and it said i was a video game player and watcher of anime neither of which are true so it's still going to hallucinate and get things wrong but ideally like sundar says it's going to be better than the previous version and then the next one yeah gemini 2.0 is better than this one and it's just going to keep getting better down the line yeah and a big thing for gemini is because they're training it to be multimodal from the start and really more of a general transformer model they're planning on using it for a lot more use cases like they talked about using in robotics okay what's the robotics zone the robotics is because if it's able to analyze vision data and sound data and can also

have speech data and talk to you theoretically this is like this is like a artificial general intelligence that you could throw into a robot, and then the robot could take everything that it sees and senses. Like a Tesla bot? Yeah. Like you throw it into a human-shaped robot, and then it knows how to act like a human, maneuver in spaces that humans usually maneuver in, things like that. Yeah. Totally fair. I also sort of visualized it just in, like, we already know that Meta's smart glasses are going to have an update where you can look at something and get

tips about it. That sort of same thing in maybe a Google smart glasses product or whatever where literally it can just take in information from the world around you from the visual aspect and then give you things in audio just based on that. You're looking at a trolley, you're on the tracks, you

say, do I pull the lever? And it goes, here's what to do. Oh, you're in the classic trolley problem again. So that's what I pictured. I think that Google for now is definitely intentionally keeping the multimodal functionalities to the ultra model. Because if you were to give people access to something that can, you know, take in speech data and vision data and all this stuff, you're, you're, I mean, we have, we don't really have a general definition for what an artificial general intelligence would look like other than it is better than humans at most economically viable tasks.

So if you were to give this to people, you don't really know what would happen. So I think that it's sort of like, we're going to give it to enterprise to test what that would look like in an enterprise scenario. I'm sure this will eventually work its way down to general people that will probably take a couple of years i would guess it's gonna be the first so i mean an open source model is already going to do this at some point like that's inevitable i also feel like it's

probably going to enterprise first because it's probably so expensive yeah so like enterprise will at least pay for it like regular people aren't going to pay like 70 a search or something right yeah yeah yeah so apparently it beats gpt4 in 30 of 32 benchmarks which is crazy um they said gpt4 specifically they didn't mention gp4 gpt4 turbo which is the better version that they released a few weeks ago and yeah. Okay, great. Yeah. But yeah, it's fairly exciting. They're releasing the Pro model through Google Generative AI Studio and Vertex AI and Google Cloud starting on December 13th. So developers will have access to the Pro model as well. And hopefully we will see the Pixel 8 Pro.

And I wish they had done this on the regular Pixel 8. I would guess it's a RAM problem because say your phone is taking 4 gigabytes for apps. If you have 8 gigabytes of RAM versus 4 gigabytes of RAM for Gen AI tasks, then I'm sure that that would definitely help it. But hopefully we see these kind of things making their way to pixels um down the line and i'm sure that google is waiting to release just trickle out features every single pixel that they release they're probably going to be like oh yeah and now it has another feature that is enabled by gemini that it's going to be able to do so which is great i'm never going to be complaining about that that's good yeah feature support i feel like this is just going to live in their cloud center servers. The ultra model?

Yeah, the ultra model will for sure. It's going to be so hard to get anything like this onto a phone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, on a phone for sure. I just wonder about someone else getting a ton of users because they do some awesome multimodal trick that everyone falls in love with. Like GPT had that moment where everyone wanted to talk to it and everyone wanted to

ask you questions and suddenly everyone floods over there and Google's reacting quickly. You know, Microsoft's reacting quickly. Everyone's doing stuff to try to match that. And so I wonder if some multimodal thing comes along that everyone loves. And then Google goes, oh, we have that too. And it just finds a way. I don't know. Yeah. But it seems like that's what happens. I mean, ChatGPT Pro, at least the Pro model, you can feed it, like, images and video and

audio. And it can, like, interact with that data. But it's not as seamless as, like, the video that Google showed off. Like, the Google video was insane because it was a live thing that it kept just interacting with the new things the person was putting into the scene yeah i'm not sure exactly how that video was working like the video was cool because of how i assume it worked but i'm not actually sure if it worked the way i assume it right because he he didn't prompt it with anything yeah but theoretically maybe he did prompt it with stuff i just didn't see.

I think it was very highly scripted and edited. But probably. Still pretty cool. Yeah. Because the video was like, here are some of our favorite things that we saw it do, which means that they tested it a ton and picked out the most fun things that they saw. 100%. So, yeah. I mean, that's very exciting.

Theoretically, it was going to get pushed in next year. So it's cool that it's here this year. And the AI race races on. That good yeah that's catchy we'll keep an eye on it we should take a quick break we got some more feature drops and fun stuff to talk about after the break but before we do that trivia question about me more oh yeah probably what episode was marquez hosting the waveform existence into existence i'm not sure if it's gonna work trivia question about not marquez so what was the first car with a top speed of 200 miles per hour ever yes implying the first ford model t no production car That does not help me at all.

I'm going to think about it and we'll get back to it after the break. You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know.

Ambition is on the inside. So that road trip bucket list? Get after it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite. Get after it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. business in times like these. That's why over 38,000 businesses are already setting their future plans with NetSuite by Oracle. This top-rated cloud ERP brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, and more onto one unified platform, letting you streamline operations and cut down on costs. With NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting tools, you're not just managing your business, you're anticipating its next move. You can close the books in days, not weeks,

and keep your focus forward on what's coming next. Plus, NetSuite has compiled insights about how AI All right, welcome back last little bit we got a couple things to talk about that are kind of fun first of all google uh coming in hot with a feature drop for the pixel 8s later this month some other stuff too some uh it's a pixel fold and the pixel tablet as well bro i the only part that i care about is video boost is allegedly coming in this a feature update yeah video boost is that i i'm interested because they've been they they showed us this feature back when the phone first got announced yes which was just pixel 8 pro is going to be able to take videos in horrible conditions that will look horrible and then you hit the video boost button and it sends your video to a Google server somewhere where it will process your video overnight and then get you a copy of it back a few

hours later and that video will somehow look amazing yeah and they know one told us about it no one got to try it no one got to send any videos no one got to upload anything they just said trust me here's a before and the after. And it looked amazing. And I was like, when can I do this? And they were like, coming soon. Yeah. I was like, great.

They made a big deal about this in early October. And then nobody got to play with it. So allegedly, we're going to be able to try it soon. Allegedly. I'm so excited. I have my Pixel 8 Pro right next to me. I will be testing it on all kinds of horrible looking videos and seeing what comes out of it whenever this drops.

And I think that you can upload other videos that weren't taken on the phone as well. Yeah, anything in your Google Photos library. Which is kind of crazy. Yeah, so you might find that some videos you took on another phone randomly years ago, you can sort of restore. You know how you can unblur photos?

You can just try it with whatever. You should upload like a 30 second clip of an MKBHD video that already looks amazing and just see what it does. See what it does. It just enhances my jawline square, my hair looks better. We'll see.

And some Squidward Marquez. It's enhanced everything. It's adding night sight video, which is very cool. So way better low light video. Balance portrait light for harsh shots and photos, which is kind of cool. So it kind of evens out,

lowers the contrast on any photos that you put in there for portrait lighting, which is cool. There is Photo Unblur is now better at sharpening dogs and cat faces. Oh, great. Yeah. Cool. So that's a thing.

Yeah. Pixel Fold now has a dual screen preview mode so that people can see how they look when you're taking a picture of them when you have the phone unfolded, which has been a feature since like the Galaxy Fold 1. It's been a feature forever and I know about it on every phone I test and I still like somehow managed to forget about it and never use it. That's because it's hard to hold your phone like this while it's open and also take a picture.

It is ergonomically pretty weird. Yeah. But it's a thing you can do. Yeah. It's convenient for people uh pixel 6 and newer can now be used as usb webcams so seems like they don't have the like wireless webcam thing continuity camera continuity camera however continuity camera is probably the most annoying feature that apple's ever shipped because it's like on by default and it takes over your mac webcam and then the other person's like why do i just see black and then you realize your phone's on the table in your pocket

i do this so often and then you know the first thing that always gets said is oh wow good to know that even the tech guy still struggles with this sometimes no no it's just a bad feature not my fault just a bad feature yeah i'm not a fan So you can use it with a USB cable now, which is better because it's intentional. Sure. There's now a cleaning option for receipt photos that will remove smudges, stains, and creases in your receipts. That's cool. Which is very specific for uploading receipts. I think it's documents in general.

Yeah. It said receipts on the article that I read, but could be documents. There is a repair mode now. So if you're getting your phone fixed, it basically safeguards all of your personal data while they're fixing your phone, which is good. The Pixel Watch can now unlock your phone if you're wearing it, which that's been a feature in Android for like the beginning of time. Yeah. On Wear OS since the beginning of time. And even others.

Yeah. This is a, yet another thing on the list of pixel watch getting features that have already existed. Yeah. Like trusted Bluetooth devices has always been a thing in Android. Yeah. So welcome to the party pixel watch.

That's strange. Uh, call screen now shows up on the pixel watch, which is cool. So you get the transcription and everything on your watch. Nice. Which is nice is nice you i don't know if you'll be able to send the prompts back yeah like if it's some ups guy can you hit the button on the watch that says leave the package or is it gonna not have i don't know that'd be nice i'll yeah it would be nice you do without pulling out your your phone exactly uh and then the pixel tablet if anyone's still buying that thing because it's so buggy uh now get spatial audio and clear calling also with um pixel buds game changer

yeah right totally spatial audio out of a tablet yeah okay interesting so there's that yeah yeah that is a lot of stuff it's good just because we know this is going to keep getting updated and these phones are you know they're promising seven whole years so we're going to continue to get cool stuff on the latest generation that's right pixel pixel eight and eight pro so many years it's a lot of stuff so this is just the first of many feature drops to expect on those yeah and uh we'll let you know how good video boost ends up working yeah hopefully we get to try that soon and then we can make a short or something on it. Yeah.

See how it goes. Hopefully it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You wrote Toyotathon. Why did you write that? It's just a joke.

The last two pieces of news are EV related. Toyota news and Honda news. So I wrote Toyotathon and happy Honda days. Oh my God. Yeah. Because for those not in America at least, I don't know if they do this in other countries But there's like a meme about at the end of the year when Toyota's trying to sell more cars They're like it's Toyota thought it's brand new lower prices on our cars

They do do that and then happy Honda days is Honda's origin of that Yeah, but Toyota announced that it has two new EV crossover concepts coming by 2025, which is pretty nice because the BZ4X was a terrible car and it was... I finally saw one. There's one in my neighborhood that I see all the time. Oh, really? And it's bedazzled

to crap. Oh. Yeah, there's like there's literal bedazzles all over it. I did see one in California and I looked... I've never actually sat in one or like really gotten to know the bz4x but it seems like nobody buys them yeah i mean i it just has terrible reviews across the board awesome so like ipace vibes uh yes and i think that isn't that the one that the subaru the new subaru is based on as well. Yes. EV Subaru. That's a bummer and a half. Yeah. But apparently they're going to be building new EVs by 2025.

So there's an urban SUV launching in Europe in 2024. Urban SUV. Yeah. Which draws inspiration from the Yaris Cross, which if you click this link, that's like a very... Oh, it doesn't have a photo of it. Okay, I'm Googling GR Yaris instead. Oh, that's like a very, uh, Oh, it doesn't have a photo of it. Okay. I'm Googling GR Yaris instead.

Oh, that's a car. That's much more car than before. Yeah. That's fine. That's a, that's definitely a car. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a, this, it's not a super, that's a different, okay. Maybe I'll restart this section. GR is,

it stands for gazoo racing. No way. Yep. G-A-Z-O-O. Gazoo racing no way yep g-a-z-o-o gazoo racing cool i do a lot of gazoo racing actually okay huh interesting uh anyway it draws its oration from the yaris which you know is a car for sure uh it's it's yeah it's gazooed it's gazooed it's got front and all-wheel drive options and two battery tiers. Nice. Yeah.

We don't know as much about the crossover, which is going to be coming in 2025, so a little bit later. Also, they previewed next-generation batteries that are being planned to launch in 2026. And there are two different types of batteries that they're launching. The first will use a conventional structure, which will be two times the range of their current battery modules, which is pretty crazy. That should be like really, really good range by 2026. And the second type will be a 20% higher range,

but 40% lower cost than the BZ4X battery. And it's made to drive EV adoption is what they said yeah and by that they mean ride the ev wave because toyota you're not driving any ev adoption right now yeah you're absolutely not doing that but i think that just means they're gonna put it in cheaper cars sure yeah cheaper cars yeah um they also teased progress with their solid state batteries they say are three to four years away. Let's go. Those are, they're aiming to be able to charge them from 10 to 80% in 10 minutes. Are we putting any stock in this?

Yes. No. Yes. We are? Like if this announcement came from anyone else, would we be putting stock in this? It'd be a big deal, yeah. I mean, Toyota has said that they don't really want to put a lot of effort into full EVs until they get to solid state, right?

Yes. We've been hearing this for a while. Yeah, we have. Which is my concern. They said three to four years away. So, I mean, that's not as long. And they're doing it in partnership with Panasonic, too. It's a tech share.

And they have battery plants in the U.S. I have faith in this long play but i'm also not you know in the battery biz yeah so to speak but i believe it yeah we shall see they also need you know to build them they need to first have the tech breakthrough and then build it and then have a factory for it and then start shipping it in cars and then all that other stuff they definitely have plants um they have plants yeah in multiple continents too whether or not they have a battery they're making though different story yeah we'll check back in in three to four years yeah yeah exactly

and then the last little piece of ev news is that honda announced that it's going to show off new models new evs at ces you know what this is? Moto Giganto? No. This is a GTA trailer announcement. Honda announced that they're going to show off CES cars, which, as we know, is not what's actually going to show. Well, it said new model, new EV series, new global EV series. At CES.

Yeah, that's true. So it's an announcement of what's going to be a preview of what's going to be a concept good for us we'll have a correspondent at CES this year

oh boy to cover all of this great Honda news exciting yeah we'll check them out I don't you know

I try to be optimistic but I've seen a lot of cars at CES I've seen a lot of announced new vehicles at CES and there's I'll say a bit of a trend with those things so with that in mind I will check out whatever Honda shows us

at CES what do you mean the Sony one that one didn't launch the Dyson was pretty... Oh, wait a second. There was a Dyson car? No way. There is no Dyson car.

But there might as well have been a Dyson car. Yeah. Yeah. Also, they apparently have 30 new EVs. They want to have 30 new EVs by 2030. Don't we all? Honda. Damn.

Don't we all? Yeah. 30 different... That's so many. I's so many i know it's imagine going from how many does honda make now how many evs does honda make do they make any now i don't think so at least in the u.s i don't think they have like when you think of okay it's 2020 it's about to be 2024 and the ev leaders in the u.s are are like, Tesla, who has five EVs? The Prologue all-electric SUV. Okay.

Let's keep that in mind. So it's 2024. Oh, it comes early next year, it says. Yeah. So Tesla has five EVs. Mercedes has like five EVs. Ford has like three or four EVs. Tesla has four, right? Tesla has three YXS Cybertrucks, five.

Oh, you're right. And Honda's going to have 30 in six years. That seems like a lot. That seems like a lot. Honda clarity. Is that a full EV? Apparently. Sure.

Ford has, like Ford. Ford. F-150 Lightning. Has F-150 Lightning, Mustang Mach-E. Yeah, true. I think that's it. I think that's it. Honda's going to have 30 by 2030?

Okay. I want you to be optimistic here, but that's just how I'm seeing it. Maybe that's just for stock prices. Yeah, they got to announce something. Yeah. All right. All right, cool. Getting to 30 in six years.

We'll see. Sounds good. Shoot for the moon, Hondaonda i guess with that with that and get to trivia let's do it highest without going over highest without going over for the question that ellis. Quick update though on the score. Marquez with 17. Andrew with 12. David with 16. We're going to keep saying Andrew every time. Andrew still has 12. That's weird. By the way, for the people that have been

asking where he is, he is still on parental leave. He should theoretically be back next week. Alright, first trivia question. Will Andrew be back next week? Just kidding. Don't do that to me. Actual first trivia question. What was David's last job?

Just kidding again. Real, actual, this time for totally serious trivia trivia trivia question uh-huh which episode was david's first full host appearance on video waveform specifically video waveform yeah and i will accept either a number closest to that going over or the topic of the episode it It's probably Google related, but you can't just say Google as the topic. I think it was tech. Yeah. I think it was a tech topic that day. I don't know.

I'm not even going to guess the topic, but I have a number. I like talking about shoes. Try not to go over. Just kidding, I don't. I'm going to be off, I think. All right. We have options.

And remember, this is before David was made a full-time regular every week host. Oh. Wait. Oh. Oh. Send it. Oh, my God.

All right. Clearly, my question was not well understood. I wrote 169. That is way past the episode in question. Okay. I said, yeah, because this year. Anyway, I wrote 137. All right.

I'm going to chalk this up to bad trivia hosting because the correct answer was episode 64. What? A deep dive on the right to repair. Oh. Oh. Yeah, true. David is in the thumbnail and on the right to repair. Oh. Oh. Yeah, true. David is in the thumbnail and on the full hour of the show. Second question. What was the first car with a top speed of 200 miles per hour?

Oh, no. I have another. We're doing this because David and Marquez specifically asked for 200 number 200 themed questions, of which there are actually not that many. Should have guessed episode 200 for the first episode. Oh, wait, this is episode 200. This is episode 200. All right, flip them and read.

I wrote the Porscheorsche 911 nope i said the koenigsegg regera after i after i crossed out bagatti vera also don't know what that is the answer was the 1969 dodge charger daytona oh wow no. Never gonna get that. This car actually has a particularly special link with the number 200 because it was invented after NASCAR driver Richard Petty left the Dodge team, which is noteworthy because Richard Petty has 200 career wins. Exactly. What did he leave it because of? He left because, and I'm a nascar account is going to

come out of the woodwork and explain this to me better but essentially richard petty was the pretty much the greatest nascar driver of all time definitely the greatest of the 60s asterisk you know fight me on that if you want they will he was driving for chrysler um and he wanted to be put in in the dodge uh in a dodge uh but unfortunately uh chrysler kept him in a buick because they wanted to sell more buicks and he was this big celebrity so he left for ford which had just developed a new super aerodynamic car that was very much faster than the rest of the nascar field so chrysler i mean dodge said we need to build the most aerodynamic car we can so they went to chrysler their parent company which also had a military wing

and asked the chrysler missile division to design a body kit for the 1969 Dodge Charger. That's how he got the Daytona. That's why it looks like, but why did he leave? Oh, because they wouldn't give him a car that he wanted. So he raced for Ford instead. That sounds pretty petty.

I literally was just trying to make that joke the whole time. Wow. You really let me go on. Well, I asked you the question. You just told me the different answer. Okay, let's read this out. Thanks again for listening and watching this week. We learned a lot, including the first car that ever went 200 miles an hour.

I have one more thing I want to say. Go for it. The person who is in charge of responsible Gen AI at Google, her name is Jen Gen AI. Jen Gen I, but it's spelled Gen AI. Is she an AI? And she's a real human being.

There are, I'm kind of a little bit obsessed with people with perfect names for their professions. Yeah. I've brought this up before. Yeah, we've talked about it here. There are, I'm kind of a little bit obsessed with people with perfect names for their professions. Yeah. I've brought this up before. Yeah, we've talked about it here. I've talked about it already. That might be the greatest match of a name to a profession I've ever seen. It's like, it's Jen, Jen AI.

Her name is Jen AI. Jen, Jen AI. Jen, can we talk about this? This is amazing. I know. Shout out to Jen. Shout out to Jen. There's no about this this is amazing I know shout out to Jen okay there's no way

that's amazing I'm sure it's pronounced Jen-I but not to me well shout out to Jen alright Jen-I

with that with that let Tim cook we'll catch you guys in the next one waveform is produced by Ellis Roven and Adam Molina we are part of the

Vox Media Podcast Network. Our intro outro music is by Vain Silk. verify all right let's do it you got it working no i'm just signing in oh