Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Introducing Telsa Roadster... Again

Episode Date: October 23, 2026

In this episode we've got the team's final thoughts on the iPhone Duo after living with it for a week, we finally get to cover the Tesla Roadster event, and we briefly go over the Porsche Mission S. Links: MKBHD: iPhone Duo Review MKBHD: Tesla Roadster Thoughts Porsche: Mission S This episode brought to you by: Charles Schwab: https://www.schwab.com/oninvesting Framer: https://www.framer.com/wave Jira: https://www.jira.com Follow us on socials: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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They have a lot of things like... Wait, so it's a key? Well, it's not like a shape like a key. It's the key fob. You just described a regular key. I realize what I'm doing. I realize what I'm doing. Yo, what is up?

People of the Internet. Welcome back to another episode. of the Wayform podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. I'm David. Over at the producer table today,

Ellis and Mariah, holding it down. And we got a doozy. A duo. I tried. I typed it. You read it. I appreciate you going for it. We got a doozy today.

Mainly because there's two gigantic things that happened in the last week. Right after, that's funny. Right after we shot last week's podcast was a massive car event. Obviously the Porsche Mission S event. Oh, and sorry, also, I think wasn't there another one?

Oh, yeah, the Tesla Roaster. The Tesla Roaster. And there was the embargo for Surface Duo reviews is up. So we have been using Surface. I said Surface Duo. I thought you were making another joke. I should have leaned into it. I should have leaned into it.

My brain is, anyway, iPhone Duo reviews are out. We've been using it. David, you have yours. It's the blue one. White one. The colors are. Here's mine. I forgot the names of the colors.

They're like light sky. Star white. Dark Sky, basically. Yeah, and we have our thoughts. The reviews are out and we can talk all about what it's been like to use them and daily these things. But first, did they even test this? Mariah has one. She said, potentially.

I have a minor complaint. That's what this is for. This whole thing is minor complaints. We've been getting bugs fixed for weeks now. This is great. That's right. I don't know what I did. So I don't know if I enable developer settings or something in my Samsung.

and it involuntarily enrolled me in the new beta software for OneUI. And what that means is that I got one voicemail three weeks ago. And that means I got a notification. I have a voicemail every time I dismiss it. It comes back within five minutes. So I have a perpetual notification that I have a voicemail when I do not. I've had this. I've had this exact issue and it is a Samsung issue.

The voicemail notification never goes away. I now, I'm trying to remember how I got rid of it because I think there was something about I think you have to install like the visual voicemail app and then like like read it in that app and then it goes away or something. See, that would make sense. See, I didn't do anything. And then this morning my phone said, oh, it's time to update and you don't have to be in the beta anymore. And I'm like, that's what I want. Yeah. And we're so backed. No, I've definitely had that issue and the fact that it's still an issue suggests that either no one's tested or no one cares. I think no one cares. Notifications that don't go away might be one of the most annoying. bugs in any software. Definitely.

It happens in Slack all the time where there's like just the dot on my like dock on my computer or like it will say somewhere in the sidebar like the icons that there's something and I'll click everything. That's another thing.

I think that's a Slack thing. All the time the Slack like the Slack app will have a little badge next to it with notifications and I'll go oh I thought I read all of them and then I'll open it and Slack will be like you don't have anything and then I'll close it and it's gone. That's a research.

an issue, I feel like. Slack's been doing that for a long. It's Slack. It's Slack. It'll be like, yo, you've an unread mention and I'll go. And it's something that I've actively replied to, like, multiple, like, how is this unread? Well, you replied. You didn't click on it.

Yeah. You got to click on it. No, Gmail definitely has this issue, too, because it says that I have 9,317 unread emails. Yeah, and you only have 9,315. I recently emailed you 9,300 times. So that's actually, it's going to check out perfectly. Yeah. It's all spam.

Yeah, it's all spam. Well, I'm sorry, Mariah. I hope Samsung hears this and fixes it imminently. They won't. They won't. Maybe. Maybe. We did get one fixed the other day.

I actually got the megaphone issue we had with the drop-down that showed every single post by minute. Oh, they changed it? They changed it. And not only did they change it, but actively someone messaged me and said, hey, I brought this to the attention of people. And they said, but they were already working on it. So, were they? We're taking credit.

Were they? We did this. There was the Google Maps thing where it started showing the speed before you would even leave. You got that change. Android Auto, yeah. Androidado. I think we need the, there's the killed by Google website, right? Fixed by waveform.

We need fixed by waveform. That's a good call. That's a good call. Well, hey, speaking of did they even testless, what has it been like to live with the iPhone duo the past week and a half? I have so many thoughts. There are so many big stories with it. One of the biggest stories with it is the actual. app story, which is that, well, most developers don't have an iPhone duo. And they have had

the ability to develop for the duo, but I think most of them like to have a physical device and would like to spend extra time with it to make sure their apps are perfect. So the past week and a half of using it, and I think for probably the first two, three weeks of people getting them and unboxing them and starting to move into them, you will find that most apps have not been tested with it. Did they even test this? No. They are unoptimized apps. And that just basically means there's like a bar down the side and they look a little weird and kind of ugly and they're not optimized to use the space at all. But when they do get optimized, they look so good. And every time I see like new app updates available and I get another app that like checks the box for like Duo

support, I get so happy. Yeah. So as of right now, there's like three apps. The weird thing is that there are three states of optimization for Duo. There's like not updated to iOS 27 at all. Yeah. There's updated. A lot of Google apps. There's updated to iOS 27. There's like not updated to iOS 27. and then there's 27.1. Just 27 has like partial duo support and 27.1 has like full duo support. I barely consider a duo support. I just consider it like kind of stretching it to be bigger.

Yeah. Or like putting more of the background in the area. The Google Calendar interior screen one was the craziest thing I've ever seen. Yeah. It somehow feels worse. Do you use Google Calendar? I do use Good Calendar.

Have you looked at it on the interior screen? I have. I'm trying to think of what... I mean, yeah, besides that. So we were doing it at the lunch table the other day. So you open it and it stays the exact same size. Yeah. And then we were like, oh, rotate it. It'll fit that better.

And the first time you rotate it, it actually gets smaller somehow. Yeah. Because it's a vertical thing. I don't know. There is that expand button. There's also the rotate button. Yeah, which makes it wide. Which makes it wide, which is now it went away.

Yeah, see, here's the problem. I can't find the button again. Oh, there it is. Yeah, it's a little rough. It's a little rough. I will say, so for unoptimized apps that are like fully unoptized, like Google apps or RIP Arc Search, my favorite mobile browser, which they will not update. So sad.

Because Arc is dead, so I need to find a new browser. It effectively uses the iPhone 18 Pro aspect ratio. Well, not aspect ratio, but the width. It's like the exact same width as the iPhone 18 Pro. And this makes sense because developers have already. coded for that. But then you just get this giant black bar on the right. And it looks pretty rough. And the duo is like, this is where I'd put the extra controls. If I had them. But it doesn't have them. Yeah, or just move the controls to that side. Exactly. It's tough with Google Calendar too,

because you have that plus button right, it's right there next to the black bar. And it's covering things. It's like, if this was moved over 40 pixels, it would be perfect. I'm also going to be honest. I don't always love having the controls on the right side. Like, it's a smart idea for reachability, but it's not where I always anticipate things to be. Even the dock, like they put the dock on the right side of the screen. And I'm still, this is probably just muscle memory, but I'm still hitting the bottom left

because that's where pocket casts always used to be for me. And then I open telegram by accident. Yeah, it's a little bit of muscle memory. I do find it nice, though, because the unoptimized apps still have all the stuff at the bottom that is harder to reach because it's further away from the edge. Yeah. So the big philosophical idea with Duo,

I guess if you haven't seen the reviews, is basically it moves all the control. from the bottom over to the side, moves all the controls from the top, also over to the side. And that includes, like, your time and your cell signal and the good status.

Status indicators. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask a question? Yeah. We're complaining about it being not optimized specifically on this, but for other foldables,

I assume this is a typical thing that always happens at launch, or is this not sure? Sort of, but also not because they completely redesigned how the interface works on this phone. On the front specifically. Yeah.

The thing on the inside, I don't know. That's what shocks me the most is like there are things in foldables that aren't well optimized, but that Google calendar on the interior screen of that is like bad, bad. But like, so does this happen on the new Samsung fold? Yeah, so on these Android foldables, and a lot of Android apps are much better at, I guess, scaling to a bunch of different sizes because there's so many different size Android phones in the first place. So iPhones have just been the same aspect ratio year after year after year,

and iPhone apps are easy to develop because all iPhones look the same. And so on Android phones, like this Z Fold 8, for example, apps fill up the screen. There's no black bar down the side. And then they can have occasional weird hiccups or bugs with like actively changing

between the inside and outside screen. But then on the iPhone, I keep saying surface. On the iPhone duo, it just looks like a normal iPhone app on the side and then a black bar. Yeah. Which is a little bit more jarring,

and it's a little more obvious when it's not well apt to, But I think Apple's strength is getting developers on board with this sort of stuff over time. And so my line near the end of the review is like, if you're still thinking about buying one and you're like trying to decide, if you do buy it now, you won't get it for another two months. And by then, way more apps will be optimized. And you'll have a better time. Hopefully. Hopefully.

Yeah. Google has so many teams on so many of their apps that it's going to, I don't even know if half the apps are going to be optimized. And the benefit of this versus like when foldibles were first. getting launched what eight years ago or whatever is like they know they're just going to have to make it for this one that's like this and it's iPhone that's what's the benefit of making for iPhone as long as they keep the same display size as long as they keep the same display size yeah which i think they will i don't think they're going to change that where like before it was wild west we have android manufacturers all over the place making all these different aspect ratio ratio foldables

that everyone developing was probably like oh my gosh that's why i already had to make so many for the slab phones. Yeah. This too. I mean, that's why Google had to come in and hyper-optimized

Android for flexible screen sizes because they just knew, like there are too many types of Android phones. You can't hard code for every single possible screen size. Yeah.

My overarching thoughts on this phone is that it doesn't really feel like a phone, which is something I really like. It feels like a single task-oriented device where I think of something I want to do and I go do it.

And I think that that has to do with the fact that, one, it's very short and squat, So it's like kind of a worse experience in that way. True. And then any time I want the experience to actually be good, I have to open it. And the friction of needing to open your phone and then do the thing. And then physically shutting it when you're done, it feels like I'm onto this task, now I'm done.

I'm on to this task, now I'm done. It's funny because I'm pretty sure the way they want this to be marketed is you saying, like, it's really bad at doing all those things. Like this is supposed to be like multitasking, big screen, lots of different things to do. like use your phone so much for all these things and you're saying like, oh, it almost feels like you're saying, I'm going to be less distracted because I'm going to have to think so hard about the things I have to do. That actually is what it is for me. For you, but I don't think that's how they would want to market this thing. I think they would want this thing to be like, this does everything you could ever want to do, be distracted beyond this. They're the ones that made a case

that physically goes over the front screens. The dumbest thing I never. No, I like it. I think it's stupid. That's like an iPad type thing. Like the folio cases for the iPad that you same thing. It's like, it's closed. And when I really want to be intentional about opening it, then I have to like decide to use it. Yeah. I do think that the back of this case is bad, so it only does this, but it doesn't do multiple angles. So when you have it open, like, yes, you could do like a FaceTime or watch a video like that, but it's really not good for... Wait, I pushed it way further back. I mean, you can do that, but it's still unstable. Oh, you mean like vertical. Yeah, the kickstand. For anyone listening. There's a kickstand and it has one.

Yeah. Good spot. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's a vertical. Yeah. I mean, it's a vertical. I mean, it. It's spot. Yeah, I had a similar thought with reviewing the hamburger style flips with like the Z-fold. The intensity flip, for example. Yeah. You can't really accidentally just open your phone and start doom scrolling TikTok. Yeah. And that's kind of a good thing. Like, I don't think they market it that way, but that's kind of like a nice feature where you kind of have this barrier where you have to decide, all right, like the outside screen is just notification triaging and just like making sure I see text and then like closing it. I'm not going to doomscroll.

Yeah. But if I like open the phone and decide to go use it, then I'm going to go use it. Yeah. And the duo has a little bit of that because the outside screen is only five and a half inches. It's a little squat. It's not great for watching videos. And you can kind of still do it.

But yeah, there's a little bit of that. Everything is much smaller and it's just like not really a great experience. You see less information, especially when it's not optimized. It's like a much worse experience on the outside. So you can have a great experience if you open it up and then you do this. And then you're like, oh, I have a nice. iPad Mini. But on the outside, it's like, so you have to be intentional about actually opening it. I think you guys underestimate people's doom scrolling abilities that they won't use the front

screen. I really do think a lot of doom scrolling just comes from like the muscle memory of unlocking unlocking your phone just like rapidly though, you know, without even thinking about it. You know? You saw the part in our video where Marquez scrolls on TikTok and Instagram reels at the same time. Well, yes, but like you have to intentionally like multitask that way. Yeah, that takes several steps to like open it up, unfold it, open one, stroll to the side, open the other one, and then starts flipping it.

Assuming you haven't set up a shortcut for it. Yeah, that's true. I have found myself using two apps at the same time more often I thought I would. Most of the time it's useful for copying information from one screen to another. It's so good for that. Yeah. Obviously, you can just multitask.

You could just be in one app, copy, and then swipe over and be on the next app. But it's just nice to see it on the left. One of the most useful ones, I sometimes get parking tickets because I forget to move my car because we have alternate sides sweeping. And every single time I pay the ticket,

I have to insert my bank info, like my routing number and my account number, which is a lot of back and forth. 7 to 8, no, I'm kidding. And yeah, it's specifically with like banking apps because they like black out when you're multitasking. Yeah. I have to like really remember what it is every time I go.

So I can have them both open at the same time and actually just type it in and it's much easier. Yeah. Or like flight information. If I want to add it to flighty, that kind of stuff, all very helpful. Battery life, insanely good. You had a great battery life experience.

I had like a solid battery life experience, but it seems like you were having amazing battery. And again, it might be because I'm just like not opening it as much. I'm using this booklet case. Yeah. And this might help because the screen's on way less of the time. It's like completely off when the case is closed. My other question about your use.

Yeah. How much, like what's your ratio of open screen to close screen use? Someone asked me that on Twitter. I think it's about 50, 50, but I don't know how much of that is the novelty of it being a folding phone. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of predicting, I maybe I'm projecting a little bit in my review, but I think at first

it's very fun to open it up all the time. It's very satisfying. You're just like playing with the apps and stuff. And then like a month or two later, especially on the candy bar shaped ones, you just start using it like a regular phone and you have to remember that you can open it. And I'm curious if like I said in my review, you'd probably be like 75% outside screen, 25% inside screen. We'll see how it turns out for people.

Yeah. But my battery life was pretty good. Like B plus, like six hours of screen on time, extra battery at the end of the day and all that. But a little worse than the Pro Max. But I think if I used way more inside screen, that might not be as good. Probably.

Just because it's more pixels to drive. No, on that point of like the candy bar style phones, Alex was showing me a photo on his pixel fold two or whatever it was. And he was showing me on Google Photos on his just front screen. And I was like, dude, open it up. And he was like, oh, that's so much work. That's like, exactly. Why did you buy this phone?

The whole point of it is to open it up. Yeah. And like, if you have a perfectly fine normal phone experience on the front screen, you don't have as much incentive to actually open the phone. So making it a worse experience on the front display does give you incentive to use the inner display. Yeah. Which I understand is a cop out. I totally understand that's a cop out.

It's like so bad that you have to use the good feature. It's $2,000. I know. I think it, like you mentioned with the flip before, it almost feels closer to a flip because of that, where it's like the front screen is starting to be like the on-the-go usage. And then I think people will use the inner screen way more if public transportation commute is part of your everyday life.

If there's lots of things you're doing, like entertainment or whatever, where you don't have to be in control of anything else, you can just be fully focused on your phone. Yeah. Like plane rides, whatever. So that I think it'll be more. and then the front is just like reply do something check something really fast look at a google map yeah then you're good real quick yeah yeah i loved that uh it it was really nice in portrait

similar to the z fold eight there's a lot of similarities between these phones but i really liked that that phone sort of made that behavior fear more natural it's like a small tablet in vertical yeah and on this phone this iPhone duo the volume buttons are on the side so the sort of correct orientation is like with the cameras up at the top here, the volume buttons are where they would normally be on like a normal phone. Oh, true. That's a great point. And touch ideas at the top.

So it's kind of like a normal iPad set up here. Yeah. And I liked doing that a lot with the iPhone duo. It is really nice to just have basically an iPad mini in your pocket. And when you're reading an article, you can just like read it on the display. The volume rockers, when it's closed, are annoying to use. They look really annoying.

Because you have to like wrap your phone around it and then just finding which, one is volume down and volume up is very annoying. This whole thing from when I've seen Marquez use it is like there are so many things that they did a good job of in terms of reachability by fixing it, yet then they still have a bunch of things on it that are a pain in the neck for reachability. The fact that the swipe downs are still right, middle, and left for what settings, zero, notification? Like, if you're moving all the things to the right, then you should have nothing in the top left corner. That's a pain in the neck to swipe. I saw hand gymnastics. Yeah. So like

It feels like, here's the reason why this is great. Ignore the reason why this over here is bad. We're going to forget about that. Many times it is difficult to, like, get your notification shade to come down because you accidentally just activate Siri instead. Michael Fisher was specifically complaining about that to me. I'm surprised. His touch target was a real.

I mean, see, it just did it. Just pull down Siri. Why is Siri not in a different place that's easier to do, like, a hold the power button? It does still do that. Wait, that does activate Siri? Yeah. Then the two-thirds of the top left should just be notifications. That would be nice.

Give you more room for notifications so you don't have to go all the way to the left corner. I think it's because they built Siri to come out of the dynamic island on the regular iPhones. So they decided to make it in the same spot on the duo, even though the selfie cameras are right. They should have changed it. This is like you said, there's so many polished parts that they kind of overshadow how many parts it feels like they just straight up missed on. I agree. There's like a lot of things that they completely redesigned for this phone. and there's some things they just didn't.

And like the friction between those two things makes the phone sometimes a little bit weird. Yeah. There's a little more thinking. Yeah. I also will say that a lot of the hand gymnastics stuff is more annoying because the phone is slightly thicker, slightly heavier, and slightly slipperier with the titanium, like, curved rails.

I dislike the rails so much. And I'm not an iPhone user, so I'm not used to like the slick rails. But the first time I held this, I was just like, oh, my goodness. I feel like I'm going to drop this. And then just to add on to all the things you said, and the fact that it's a $2,000 phone you really don't want to drop. Yeah. And then the Z Fold 8, which is also basically $2,000, but it has, it's thinner, it's lighter,

and the rails are flat and matte, and it's just way easier to maneuver. Like, I don't find nearly as many issues with, like, moving the phone around in my hand, opening and closing it. I love using that phone because of how easy it is to maneuver. Yeah. And then, of course, it's Android so you can, like, pull down from the top, and it's all the quick settings and notification, so I don't have, like, the reachability to the corner issue. Yeah.

So that's a big difference. And that's why I kept calling it like first-gen-filling hardware in my review. I think a second-gen iPhone duo in my dream world. Okay, in my dream world, it has like a silicon carbon battery and like an extra camera, obviously. But it also actually gets thinner, flat sides, matte, and like makes... Even thinner? Yes. They can't put face ID in if it's even thinner.

So the thing about face ID... I know. All right. So the annoying part, let's talk about that. I think a lot of people are going to miss face ID on the iPhone duo. Because everyone uses face ID on the current iPhone. I 100% miss it on the iPhone duo. The thing about the touch on the fingerprint reader, this touch ID, is it has a built-in delay

where you have to swipe and then touch or you can have like to rest your finger there for like two whole seconds and then it opens automatically. Yeah, but you still have to like wake the phone before you do it. Otherwise nothing happens. Yeah, and so it just feels slow. Yeah. And I wish it was way faster. I wish I could remove that delay. I wish I could just like tap it, wake it up and it opens instantly, like all the Android phones.

I showed that in the video too. Yeah. I, you know, and they don't do like face unlock without face ID. That's their own philosophy. I wish they did. Security stuff. So now it's like I wish it had like a much faster fingerprint reader experience. It's specifically very annoying on Apple Pay because you have to double tap and then you have to like hold it.

And then it goes, oh, make sure you author. authenticate with your fingerprint and then you have to authenticate with your fingerprint and then you have to tap. It's like a four-step process. But it's just like you hold it down for a while and it goes through all those one by one, but slowly. I think that's a feature because everyone who buys his phone wants the person at the cash register to know you're paying with an iPhone duo and you need to hold it out as long as possible. Yeah. It's just, yeah, face idea is just much faster in most ways. And a lot of people on my, on my socials have been like, just unlock with Apple Watch. Just use the Apple Watch. I don't wear it. Apple Watch guys. That's what they want. They want you to be like, yeah, everything's easier in our ecosystem, but I don't want to

wear an Apple Watch. Can you tap to pay with this open? Oh, how much is that baking? I imagine. Hold on. I was actually thinking about that. I have a flight later today and I am for sure scanning my boarding pass like, like, that's like, have you seen the people who joke with their friends at the airport and

they print out their boarding pass on like a poster card? Did you guys see the guy who scanned, he put a QR code on his bald head and then to scan it to get on the tray. That probably wouldn't work because your head's curved. But yeah. It did work. So a couple other things. I really like the apps that have been sort of optimized to just look like a Mac app,

like Slack. Slack needs a little bit more optimization. They actually tweeted at me today and said that they're working on it right now. Can you tweet at them for a couple other things that I have accused with? Well, let's just use it as they did they even test this and maybe it'll get fixed. But it looks just like the Mac app or it's got like all your conversations on the side and and then it's got the main thing right here. Same with Apple Messages.

You have all of your contacts here with the actual text here. I think that's awesome. And because of this, I really want the accessory ecosystem for this thing to get crazy. So I can have it, you know, sitting on a desk and use it with like a little mini keyboard that specifically made for this. Can I ask you really quick?

So in Apple Messages, it has like your contacts on the left and the message on the right. Can you press in where you type? What does the keyboard look like? It like pops up on the whole screen. It's over the whole thing. Oh, but it does bring just the right up.

It does. Yeah, it just brings the right up. The Slack one looked really nice except for the black bar on the right. There is a black bar on the right. That black bar drives me insane. They will almost definitely be moving the bubbles on the bottom to the right side. Yeah. And they said they're working on it.

Yeah. Yeah. So I really, I want all of the app developers that make desktop apps to just make the unfolded experience just like the desktop app. Because then I want to be able to have. my phone on a desk and just use a little mini keyboard and get some work done. If Google Docs was optimized, please Google, please.

Because Safari, what is Google Docs right now? It's so bad. Please tell me it's one vertical page. It's the same as calendar. It's the same as calendar. It's bad. It's horrible. Something like Safari is actually awesome

because it literally shows all the tabs at the top just like on desktop. Like a browser? That's cool. It looks just like a desktop browser. I just want if... And I want that for every app. I know we did, but if like a Samsung

sung full did this or whatever, Twitter would be losing its mind. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's still parts that are. So like Android apps, the Android version, like, would at least stretch it out and scale it to fit the screen. Yeah. But obviously then there's, like, extra work that Google can do to make it really take advantage of all the space.

Apple is just kind of like turn it sideways. Yeah. And then head big. You're using it wrong? Yeah, you say the consumer experience is better for a second gen product? Because that's what I'm hearing. You mean will be better for a second gen? Or, yeah.

Yes. No question. Yeah. So I think that's kind of where a lot of the reviews landed, which I tend to agree with. It's a first-gen product. So early adopters, tech enthusiasts, people like you and I who are excited about the fringe, rough around the edges stuff, like the apps being weird, like that stuff we're willing to deal with. But there's lots of other first-gen products where you kind of learn from the early adopters and all that stuff.

And then two or three generations later, it starts to find itself. and that's where it's good enough for regular people to buy. That's what iPad was. That's what Apple Watch was. That's what MacBook Air was. And I think that's what my iPhone Duo is. It's going to be probably, hopefully, I'm fingers crossed. I think it will be really good in like two or three generations.

Yeah. Fingers. I think second gen will be better even just because way more apps will be optimized. Yeah. A lot of this stuff feels like the typical Apple move of we made all of this polish. We just, we don't use any apps that are outside of our. own ecosystem. So to us, we don't see how there's anything wrong with this because we didn't, like everything Apple works perfectly on it. Yeah. Even everything that isn't, it just feels like

even though it's first gen in the sense of it's their first gen, and we talked about how there's eight years of folding phones already, this feels like there's too many issues even as their first gen because of all the stuff they should be noticing from other. There's still Apple apps that are not optimized. Okay. I take that back then. That looks terrible. That's actually surprising that they allowed that to happen. I agree. Yeah, but they still make it. I agree.

I don't even know there wasn't iOS. But if that's the barometer, because, like, Google has, like, 40 apps in the app store. Yeah. Google's not going to update the bottom half of their apps that nobody uses with that same logic. So, like, I hope Google Docs gets updated, for example. I really hope Google Calendar gets updated. But what about the, like, 17th, like, slideshow app that they make or whatever, or other random stuff?

Like, maybe Gemini is first and then whatever else happens, happens. Yeah. We'll see. Okay. The camera situation is interesting. thing. Yes. So the interior camera, as we've mentioned, has a hidden under-display camera.

Cheeks. What does that mean? Cheeks. It's bad. It's really bad. Cheeks, okay. I don't know if I've heard that. It's ass. It's bad. It's cheeks. I think we heard Miles say that, but I didn't know what that's It's four megapixels. Oh. Is it really? Yeah, and it looks like it. It looks worse than that.

Okay, that's fair. That's true. That's true. That's four million pixels. Yeah, four X the Dyson. Sorry. I should rephrase. It is four million pixels. We're really used to way more pixels than that, though. Yeah. It also looks like it's shooting through a lattice fence, which it kind of is. It is. It is. If it was Google Photos, they could just remove the fence. So, okay, a couple of things. Yeah. Callback? They call it the FaceTime camera on purpose. That's because in FaceTime, it actually looks pretty good. Because they're doing video processing. They do video processing on it that kind of removes that pretty well, and it looks very decent. It definitely has a little bit.

bit of halation and like glow because of the way the light's being bent around those lattices. Yeah. But overall, like when you take a photo with it, it looks like cheeks. Yeah. As you would say. If there's a light source of this photo, it's like, anything behind you? I'm holding it up me and it's like, it's pretty bad. And then there's little light behind me pears out.

It's glowing. It's like Sinistil 800T. Take a photo and now look at the photo. It's so funny. I don't know where to look. The post processing is way worse. Oh my. Yeah.

That looks terrible. the preview and then in the actual Zoom in at all. Zoom in at all and you're just like, oh. I mean, yeah. It's bad. And we're in a very well list. This looks like someone hacked my camera

on my laptop in the middle of the podcast and like. Yeah, but as I'll notice, the preview is actually pretty decent. And that's because like the video processing they're doing is okay. That's so funny. Yeah.

So there's that. The rear camera is definitely worse than the 18 Pro. I saw that across the board for sure. There's so much oversharpening. It kind of feels like the iPhone camera felt like four generations ago. Like it's okay. Like in worse lighting, obviously it falls apart.

And the ultra wide especially, like there's no type of sharpness in the ultra wide. Yeah. But it still has the same look as the main cameras from like an 18 pro. Yeah. The general like higher level of shadow detail and like the colors are typically the same. Yeah. But the second you pixel peep, it does feel like an iPhone 15. The funny thing is that the ultra wide is pretty much the same quality as the main.

and that's saying something because ultra-wise in the middle. In the middle. The ultra-rides good in the middle, but at least in my experience, what do you mean in the middle?

So I take an ultride photo, the middle section of the ultra-ride looks fine. But then you look at anything that's not in the middle and boy, is it noisy and soft. And that's fine. Like, you're still getting the detail.

That's what ultra-wides. They're mostly just the utility of being able to see more. Yeah. But yeah. It's the same ultra-wide as on the 18 Pro, which is cool. But yeah, I mean,

ultimately they want you to take selfies either with the front facing camera, which actually is pretty decent or by flipping it around. However, and they've like said you should do this. And they did make it like a cool UI interface for doing it where you switch to selfie mode and then you pull it around here and slide to unlock, slide to show camera. You can do that. You can see the photo you're taking before you take it. But holding the phone and taking this is extremely hard.

There's a lot of hand gymnastics. The natural thing you would want to do is probably do this. And then it's like, I'm going to drop this. Lot of hand gymnastics. I'm going to drop this. Yeah. The only thing I found it useful for was I put on the timer and then I did this and I took a selfie of me and my friend and we put it on my backpack and it was actually useful in that way. Yeah.

Other than that, this is extremely hard to do and I would just recommend using the front camera. I'm so glad you said that. This is one thing that didn't quite make it into my video. It made it in a little bit. And I thought like if I hammered on this for too long. It would feel like nitpicking unnecessarily, but it's just, there's a lot of weird, extra, like, hard-to-hold moments with the hand gymnastics.

Like, the camera control is the bottom corner. So if this is a righty phone like this, and camera control is down here, it's a little thing. Like, I'm about to spend five minutes on the pod. If I did five minutes in the video, they'd be like, why are you still talking about this? But, like, this is, like, kind of a weird thing, but, okay, you're probably turning it sideways,

so it's okay. Then the volume buttons are at the top, and there's this extra shuffle that you do until I get there. Then what you're talking about, which is like you open it, and then you flip it around, and then you get the camera open.

You have to switch it to selfie. And then you flip it over, and don't touch the back screen, you might mess it up, and then, like, slide. Okay, now you've got the controls. Now you have to not touch the lenses and, like, hopefully get it like a photo set up.

But now your fingers in it, so maybe other hand. Like, all this stuff. This is, it's just a lot of weird hand motions and stuff with this. This is why I want all of these crazy cases to come out because they're going to have, like, origami and shit that will make this easier.

Maybe. Yeah. What are you going to say, Andrew? Do you know when, like, you're trying to take a photo and someone comes up to you? And you're like, would you like me to take a photo of you guys? You don't know how? No, not even know you don't know how. Like, I don't trust you holding this thing.

Like right now, you're going to drop this? Or I would be like, just kidding, I'm not. Okay, best case scenario, you set it up for them, right? So you open it up, you open the camera app. You turn on Duo Preview so that you can see that they're going to do it right. And then you hand it to them like this. And you go, all right, a little higher, a little further. guide them and then you can get the exact shot you want.

Except now that somebody offers you and then they direct me for like 10 minutes. I was doing you all favor. Let's chill out here. Yeah. So, yeah, I hope that they had a telephoto in the next one. I wish they could have a bigger sensor, but that's just not going to be possible. I don't think unless they figure out some special physics. But who knows, right now I'm like really missing the telephoto lens, but I also really missed it on the iPhone air.

And that's just a compromise. Yeah. I think the battery is good. enough that they can use extra room to add a camera. Yeah, like the telephoto. I kind of agree with that. Yeah.

And they'll just be like, well, the A21 pro is even more efficient. So it's even more battery life. Do you guys miss this as fusion camera? Yeah, seven lenses in my pocket. This is the other thing. And maybe they should have called it the duo pro pro or something.

But they don't have pro rha and they don't have pro res and they don't have it. Well, they have pro motion, obviously. But they don't have any of those like pro features on the pro phone. And I understand they still have to sell pro iPhones. But the pro iPhone is half the price of this thing.

And I just think if you make the most expensive thing you should make should have all the features of the ones below it price wise. So yeah, there's no reason they couldn't have done pro raw. They took it out in tension. It's the same processor as the pros. They should be able to do that stuff. You shouldn't get better features on a thing that costs $1,000 less. Yeah.

That seems insane. That's a very valid take. It's just the, yeah, the pro iPhone has to get the pro. I know, but it is a pro iPhone. It's just not, you know. Yeah, it's like if you're the iPhone filmmaker in that specific way of being a pro iPhone user, then you obviously get the one with the better cameras.

Even though real filmmakers like 4x3 more than they like, 21 by 9. Yeah. It's also, are you going to edit on the phone or not. Because if you are, then maybe you do get the one with the worst cameras because it has the better screen to edit on. Well, I don't know, this is a better screen to edit on. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's their plan. So you buy the iPhone 18 Pro max to film everything and then transfer it all to your iPhone duo to then edit on the inside. No one's editing on that thing. I'm not going to edit on that. Somebody out there who doesn't, like there is a generation right now that does not have a computer that like does everything on their phone. Sure.

This is kind of sick for that. Apparently Capcut on the inner display is actually really useful because you can see the full timeline on the right and then you can see your face. Is it optimized already? Yeah. Yeah, there's a couple. Yeah. Good on CapCut. And I will say on optimized apps, developers out there, I'm looking for alternatives for a lot of my apps right now.

So if you make a good alternative to like popular apps, tweet at me or like email me, because I will try it. I really want to find it. If you're optimized first, I'm going to try it. There's some shit that I'm like, I use every day and I can't. It's just sucks. It's so bad. All right. Here's a take I want to ask you about that I've seen a couple places.

Apple introduced this feature recently that is basically like the ability to hot swap your phone number slash database. data plan, like, quickly between iPhones? I forget what it's called. Handoff. Handoff. Yeah. And I saw people saying that they launched this around the duo or the air or whatever in the last year so that people could switch between a more experimental iPhone and then their main iPhone

more quickly. And then they own two iPhones and then do two iPhone stuff back and forth, like a weekend iPhone and a workday iPhone. Apple doesn't live in reality. Is that, is that a valid? theory or what do you think of that? Look, I miss the camera features on my pro, but I'm not going to

buy two iPhones, one that's $2,000 and one that's $1,200. But it's only $35 a month. Yeah, think about it. You're an Apple executive. I don't think it's 35. You're in the boardroom. They're like, guys, we have a problem. We've saturated the market. Pretty much everyone who's going to buy an iPhone

has bought an iPhone, except for Alex. Anyway, how do we get people to buy two iPhones. Yeah. There you go. I don't know about that. I mean, it's obviously a feature that was only useful for people with two iPhones,

but then people were speculating on the timing of the release of the feature. It's like, oh, this would have been cool when the mini came out. Because the mini, I don't know, people didn't want to like fully dedicate their life to the mini, but what if it was just like a like a daytime phone and then on like workday phone? That's insane. Do you know what a bit interesting? is like one inch diagonally small. It's not even that small.

But the fact that no one, not enough people bought it and they had to discontinue it, they're like, maybe more people would have given it a shot if they could have like swapped back and forward. No way. Do you remember the palm phone, the new palm phone? Yeah, it was like a one inch screen. Yeah, 1.6? Yeah, but it was the same idea.

It was like you had to payverize an extra money to have the same phone number and it was your weekend phone where you couldn't do anything on it. Yeah, it was the same idea, but like literally couldn't do lots of things on it. Yeah. I mean, you could because. it had Google Play and Android, but it was horrible. What if we just like take the SIM card and we put it in the other phone? Oh, there's no SIM card?

Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know about that. The only thing I could try and think of is if like you have, if your work phone and your phone happen to be the same, but like you want a work phone to be specifically not the same. A different number. Yeah.

So I feel like that's. Look, I miss, I miss the camera features on the 18 Pro, but I would rather just own this and then bring a real camera. Yeah. Yeah. I cut a section again from the review is the report card section. It's a 30-minute review already. Yeah.

But the little report card thing that I did with the MacBook Neo and the Google books, so I was going to do that again. And for the, I got halfway into writing it, and I was like, what do I do for the creator? Because it is a worse camera, but it is a better everything else. Yeah, right. Like the screen on the inside for watching your videos back, for editing, for publishing, like when those apps are. optimize. It's better at everything else, but the cameras are worse. So is this better for a

creator than the 18 Pro? Some of the creators maybe. Fun fact, I shot the whole Tesla Roadster reaction video on the iPhone duo. There were a few comments, maybe two or three that I noticed, to like, oh, what phone did you shoot this on? But there was 20,000 comments about the subject to the video, not the phone that I shot it on. And I think that that's probably the overall theory is that if the story is good enough, if the video is good enough, it doesn't matter what you shoot it on. Yeah. But question. Did you shoot it with the back camera? No, that's, again, too much hand gymnastics. I just did my old trusty this. Yeah, so you did with the back camera, but not open. Back camera closed. Without seeing yourself. Trust. Yeah. Trust. Pure trust.

Looks like it's facing me. Must be facing me. Because I took, I was in Montreal this weekend and I took a very beautiful video of the fall foliage, but the bottom part of the screen just had my finger in it. So I'm surprised that you didn't have that issue. Oh, I, I've gotten used to. I've, shot so many autofocus videos that I know, like, how to hold a phone and, like, avoid that issue. If I was, like, trying to do the right side of the phone, it would be hard. So you're saying I was holding it wrong. Yeah, you're holding it wrong. Yeah, exactly. Tail as old as time. It's tail as old as time. Well, I'm super excited for the accessory ecosystem on this. One thing I did notice, magsafe, it has. But a lot of magsafe accessories don't really work very well for it.

Explain. Because of the size. So size. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the size. So for example, I have a magsafe charger at home that it's like, it's a flat charger. And because of the positioning of MagSafe on this with the way that the bump or the plateau or whatever is, it bumps up against the plateau constantly and it's like hard to get on the charger. And you can technically get it on there, but it doesn't feel like it fits flush on there. The other thing is my car, I guess this is not MagSafe, but my car has chargers that are oriented for 21 by 9-esque phones, 21 by 9 phones, and it just can't charge my phone. That's good because most cars are going to have it more narrow because.

it doesn't want to slide around when you're trying and that's not going to fit in there. Any wireless charger that is like at an angle and has your phone sitting up at an angle that does not have MagSafe will just not work for this phone because it's just too short. I assume most like wallets as well that are MagSafe will not fit. And the battery banks. It'll be too big. Well, yeah, even if they do fit with the plateau, they're going to hang off the bottom and just look like hell. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, even Apple's own iPhone AirBron Bank is just not going to work on this. Does not work. So Apple's going to have to develop new accessories. Manufacturers are going to have to develop accessories just for the duo. Wonder if they will. Or how many they will? Because like does it sell that well? There's so limited supply.

Like how many people are really going to have? This is the other thing I wanted to talk about is that we made this like sort of bet. Which we will never. That bet is no because we will never be able to tell what happened. Correct. It is invalid because their demand was way, way, way, way, way ahead of supply. above supply. But that's all we know.

We don't know how many they made. Yeah. Yeah. So like pre-orders are moved until like January or February now. I've seen February. Some people are reporting they're getting them like pushed forward after they had a long but I still know plenty of people who are like this is a February. Yeah.

Within like 10 minutes a lot of people got pushed to January. And Apple is saying our, I mean Apple would always say our demand is insane. But it seems like the demand is insane. But also we have no idea how many they make. made. Yeah. So we can't really actually see if my bet was correct. No, yeah. I also think it could like lose some sales because people are like, I think so many people ordering this want to order this because it's the new flashy iPhone thing and like there's a status symbol to this. But if you have it three months late and that's the person you want to be. Yeah. You've got to lost the like,

it's nowhere near as much fun anymore. Yeah. And at $2,000. If you're willing to pay that to be the flashy like gadget, you don't want it three months late. It's kind of, kind of the crazy thing, like, you think about it again, you're like, wow, this starts at $2,000, and then after tax and everything. And it's like, if you're already going to buy a foldable phone and you're already prepared to spend that money, then it's like, yeah, it's like, it's a great. I mean, it's the iPhone foldable. It's awesome. Yeah. But $2,000 on a phone is still an insane amount of money no matter how you slice it.

So when you could get a pro iPhone for $1,000 brand new, it's kind of like, it's a little difficult to buy a Gen 1 product. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite line in a review that wasn't mine was in the Verger's review, Nelai mentioned that every once in a while he find himself going back to his iPhone 18 Pro to do something real quick, and it was like a relief. Oh. And I felt that a little bit. What you want to hear? Just like the slab phone is the better phone.

Right. For most people. It's been optimized for 20 years. It's been optimized. All the apps work perfectly. The battery life is great. Like you're not making those tradeoffs. You have all three cameras.

It's like it's just a better, safer, easier phone for most people to get. And it's just if you want to be at that bleeding edge, then you will take the risk. And you will clearly have a worse experience with some things. And then you get the satisfying other fun stuff that comes with that. What is kind of exciting about this existing, though, is that I think phones that are this size, or at least that are foldable in this way are just going to go way more mainstream in general. Yeah? Because now the Apple makes this.

I mean, all these Android manufacturers already make them, but the volume they ship is very low. But I think that Android foldable phone volume will go up, and also now Apple is like, like, they're doubling down on this, right? Yeah. So I think that the form factor of a phone

will not be as clear cut in five years. It'll be like, there's this phone, and then there's this phone. I think that's awesome. Oh, that was one other thing I was wondering. Do you think that there will be multiple versions of the duo in the future? Oh, God. Please know.

You don't think so? I think we have a possible future. Like, whenever certain cars come out, you're like, well, I know they're going to make a convertible version later, so I'm going to wait. Like, is there going to be a duo pro? Like one with triple cameras? I think it needs to last the two years, the two generations first and make sure it doesn't get killed and then we'll start talking about that. It would have to be like three grand. Yeah.

They're not going to have any problem with that. They're happy to sell something three grand. Oh, God. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, that's kind of the thoughts. You should watch the review. It's 30 minutes long.

I really liked your comparison of it to Vision Pro of like they did all of these things that makes this feel so high quality and so many things they did right. Like how great the glass looks on the Vision Pro, how great the clicking experience. I cite. Yeah. And then when you start using it, you're like, I kind of wish I had some of the not polished things because usability-wise, they're just better. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see. Developers, developers, developers, and then second gen. We'll see how it goes. That's the whole story. That could have been an alternate title. iPhone do a review. Developers, developers, developers, wait for the second gen. Get Steve Balmer in here, ASAP. Yeah. All right. Techtober is a thousand years long. This is pretty quick, though, because I think we've talked about it a billion times already. Pro and tell. Pro and tell. It's a pun. It's a pun. Every single one of their event invites is a really cheesy pun.

No, but this one's worse. They're all, well, it's sort of, it's clear what we're about to get, which is a new pro device. And we seem to all be on the same page that the headliner will be a brand new MacBook Pro. You don't think it'll be a HomePod Pro Mini? I would bet Pro Mini-Mex anything. And there's also iPad Mini OLED refresh updates that are sort of floating around as well. But I think the thing I'm interested in and what the invite kind of references is a touchscreen OLED MacBook Pro.

Now, what will you do with the touchscreen MacBook Pro? I don't really know yet. Will it be pencil support or just finger support? I don't really know yet. Will it be $10 bazillion? I don't really know yet. It has to have pencil support.

It has to. It seems likely. But also, the iPhone duo is just now getting a software update to 27.2 that enables pencil support for a pencil that wasn't made for it. And everyone kind of wants a pencil made for the duo

instead of just using like an old iPad pencil for it. Yeah. Yeah. Is there going to be a new pencil for a MacBook Pro? I don't know if I want to use the old ones for it. I don't know yet. I mean, I still think that they didn't even need to do the touchscreen and they could have just added pencil support to the enormous haptic trackpad

because it's basically the same price as like a small walk-on tablet. Trackpad is interesting too. They should have done that so long ago. But the technology is different in a screen and how it senses versus like this metal trackpad. It's really good for fingers. I don't know. See, there's a lot of questions we don't know. It is hard to do pencil support on a screen means the hinge.

Like, touching is one thing, but drawing, this hinge would need to be. And there are rumors that there is a reinforced hinge to accommodate it. But, like, if you're doing a lot of drawing with a pencil on the screen, it has to be rock solid. Almost like a kickstand on the back in order to use this as a... Is Tim the only one who uses a tablet to draw stuff? Does Olivia not use one? Does she too? So we have two tablet users?

I don't know. I think I'm going to have to give it to them because, like, the main... thing, I've talked about this in videos before, I, there's lots of touchscreen laptops already. I never find myself using the touchscreen for anything other than a scroll once in a while because it just wobbles back and forth. MacBook Pros are pretty sturdy, but across the spectrum of laptops, there's all kinds of wobbling hinges. So I just don't use the touchscreen. Yeah. But the newest, highest end crazy stuff coming out, like these RTX Spark, Surface Ultra laptops, they're all touchscreens. They're all like incredible, like tandem OLED displays.

Apple is going to catch up with that tech and they're going to offer it. But then, like, why would I want to do it? They might have to explain that to users in some extra way we haven't seen yet. Yeah, which is exciting. I'm excited for us to get a bajillion views for, like, multiple months. Pretty nice. People want to know. Do you think?

There's going to be a nanotexture touch screen? I imagine there will be possible. Because the nanote texture on the inside of the duo feels so. Yeah, that's better. And there's some iPads with it now, right? I feel like I'm still stuck in the nanotechxture of Pro Display XTR, which is like, Do not, don't you dare touch that? Or else you will never, it will never be the same?

I think the same way. Like we had those pro displays. Like, nanotechures come a long way. Those early ones, horrible, never touched them. And then they made a nanotexture iPad. And I was like, oh, oh, that's okay. And then we used it and we're like, oh, this is actually great. That's dope.

And now it's on the phone, which everyone uses all the time. So I think they can do it on the laptop. I still don't think this one's very good for touching. Obviously, it's not made for touching. But I'm pointing out my MacBook Pro, which has nanotexture. Yeah. So it gets dirty. We'll see if they do a different version of that.

One of the rumors is that they're skipping M6 Pro and Max chips. So do we think this is going to be M5? Skipping M6 Pro and Max. Because we got M6 previously. Yeah, I mean, M5 Pro and M5 Max are A plus chips. So I wouldn't be surprised if it had those. So do you think this is going to be a MacBook Ultra that's like its own category? Or do we think all MacBook pros are just going to be this OLED touchscreen dynamic islands?

two things. One, I think it lives separately from the rest of the lineup. Okay. It's the touchscreen one. But two, they never call it what we think they're going to call it. So if we all think it's going to be the ultra,

that's the only thing that they won't call it. Yeah. I don't know what they're going to name it, but it won't be what we think. Okay, but you think it will have a distinct name that's outside the... It's like its own skew. It's strange because everyone's saying

it's going to be called the MacBook Pro. I think it might just be the MacBook Pro, and Pro is going to also include Touch now. Yeah, I feel like usually it's It's just like an add-on. It doesn't feel in my brain like it's an entire separate skew. Yeah. But it's also Apple.

When you say add-on, you mean there will be like this, this normal M-5 version. It's like a touchscreen version. It's like a touchscreen. I don't think so. I don't think all the pros will have the touchscreen and just the air will not have the touchscreen. Because I think it's also OLED. I don't think they're going to make an OLED non-touchscreen.

Yeah. And I don't think they're going to have, what is this again? Mini-L-D? Micro-L-L-A-D? I think this is Mini-L-D. Mini LED and OLA. I don't think they're going to have the same MacBook Pro lineup with Mini LAD, like two totally different screens just to get

touchscreen versus not touchscreen. Yeah. I think this, yeah, I think this lands at the top of the lineup above the current MacBook Pro. With its own name. With its own. Yeah. I mean, some Windows OEMs will like make multiple skis of the same laptop like this

one as OLED, this one's iPS, this one's blah, blah, blah. But Apple generally does not do that. I was going to say, that's Windows? They try to, yeah. They try to make it like simplified for the customer to understand what they're getting in general. Sorry, I'm thinking like a Windows. I know, I know, I know.

I don't know. I'm going to, just because you guys are doing that, I'm going to say these are just the new MacBook pros. They're just OLED with TouchD me. I think I agree with that, yeah. I think that would be nice. That would really be this like, the second half of 2026.

Apple really needed a new differentiating factor for the MacBook pros because the M chips, yeah, they're getting faster and they're getting better, but they're beyond what most people can use them for already. So they need reasons to sell new skews. It's a hilarious problem to have. Yeah. We're too good.

Lobster too buttery. Yeah. It's just like stick with your M1 again. Yeah. Exactly. So anyway, that's next week. By the time you listen to this, it's just a couple days out. Which is also, that iPad Mini apparently might have a $200 price increase.

Yeah. Which it sucks because, I mean, it's going to be a better iPad Mini, but I want them to offer a lower priced one, which I understand probably can't be a high-end OLED display. Yeah. But I just want a cheap iPad Mini. Like that's a nice little computer option to have. An iPad Mini and an iPad Mini Pro. Give us the like, I love my iPad Mini.

Yeah. I wanted an iPad Mini Pro. And this feels like it's going that. Although, OLED, but possibly still 60 Hertz. Here's my conspiracy theory take. Oh, they better not be 60 Hertz. They better not do that. Conspiracy Theory Take.

Because the iPhone Duo is an iPhone and an iPad Mini, they needed to make the iPad Mini more expensive because currently it is cheaper to buy an iPhone Pro and an iPad Mini. And if they make it more expensive, it'll be around the same price. And then you go, oh, well, why wouldn't I just buy two and one? There's no way that hasn't happened in an Apple meeting. They definitely have thought that. That is really funny.

It's been in a meeting. I do not think it's the reason why it's going to be more expensive. Yeah. But it's also, yeah. Like if I want, right now, if I want a 7-inch 120 hertz OLED display from Apple, the iPhone duo is the only way to get it. But if Apple can sell you an iPhone and a high-end iPad mini, they would rather also sell you two things.

100%. So they would happily sell that as well. Yeah. Well, we'll find out pretty soon. All right, well, next on the podcast, after the break, we're going to talk about the most controversial thing that's ever happened in history. I don't think the mission S is that controversial.

Oh, I was talking about the Big Bang. Oh, right. Well, we'll get there. In the meantime, trivia. All right, guys, earlier you were talking about Google apps that you think might not ever get official iPhone Duo support. Yeah, all of them.

I scoured the internet, and I can tell you that on the iOS App Store, Google has listed 71 applications. That's a lot. 71? 71? I thought it was 40-something. It's a lot.

What I need you guys to do is... Oh, boy. Oh, my God. Is many? No, no, no. Okay. As many as possible. Write down just one,

but one Google app, and whichever one of your apps was last updated, the longest to go, gets the point for this question. Can I throw the same question, but a potential for three points? I'm interested. You can pick, you have to write down three of the apps,

but if any of your apps match one of the other persons, you lose. Now, three of these apps were updated today. So don't pick those. Bugfix is an improvement. That's exciting, but not duo support. Unfortunately. Well, we'll think of it.

about that. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Support for Wayform comes from Framer. When it comes to your website, you shouldn't have to choose between something that looks and feels handcrafted and something that's fast to ship. With Framer, you can have both. Framer is the pro-AI website builder for creators, teams, and businesses that want a professional site and care enough to get every detail right. Agents and humans work in tandem, so agents bring speed and scale, and people bring taste and judgment and control. The agents and Framer work alongside teams to streamline collaboration on the same canvas, build custom code components, create and manage CMS content, optimize SEO settings, and ship everything all in one place.

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Stop by your local Subaru dealership or visit Subaru.ca to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the other event that happened between the last podcast episode and now. The new car. I want to reiterate there. Yeah. Between the last, like, there are so many comments last week that are like, why don't you guys cover the Tesla Roadster?

Why didn't you, I can't believe they didn't delay the recording. It was a Thursday night. The podcast was uploaded before the event started. We released at 4 a.m. on Friday. By the time we finished recording, we would have been due. Yeah. Yeah. That being said, I did put a video out reacting to it and explaining all my thoughts the next morning.

But there are so many more things to talk about, and so we will. Tesla Roadster. Tesla had their roadster event again, finally. The one that was delayed and then delayed again and then delayed again. It happened. It was October 15. And it was pretty insane. Where do I even start?

So they announced the new look of the roadster. It looks totally different. They've made a completely different car. And all of this talk, all of this hype about it being a SpaceX collab turned out to be true because that's the one thing that they demoed. They had people attend in real life to witness the conference. car drive up a giant half-pipe-looking ramp and then upside down and then flip off of it and do like a barrel roll and land on its tires and drive away. It did a huge jump over a bunch of

Tesla products. Kick flip. It was pretty crazy. Can you describe the car first? If somehow you did not see this video in the last week. Okay. So for podcast audio only listeners, picture a mid-modern Lamborghini, not like the latest Lamborghini, it's but like a Gallardo or a not Kuntosh, but a little newer, like an old Huracon. It's like a wedge shaped car with like triangles everywhere. The headlights are triangles. It's a very like low-poly type of like aggressive

like. Like cyber truck. Pointy. Supercar. I think cyber truck will get comps a lot because it's again very low-poly and it's only one color. It's just silver. It's only that color. I haven't seen any other color. Okay, I haven't either. Yeah. I was wondering if it's only silver and it's like the cyber truck route of like it's

pretty defined lines. Guys, this is product questions and details. We're not going to know stuff about colors. That's what this podcast is for. I'm just describing what I saw, you know. But yeah, then it's got these like pop-down headlights. And then at the back, there's this huge active rear wing. And then the back of the car has these exhaust pipes and fans.

It's an EV. There's no exhaust. Yeah, you're probably thinking, why is there exhaust pipes on this car? And that's because there are cold gas thrusters positioned all around the car. So I think the easiest way to understand this is there's four trims of the Tesla Roadster. This is how you can go to their website. Like they didn't, this is the problem. They didn't say this at the event.

But there are four trims at the Tesla Roadster. The base Tesla Roadster is just the EV, 100 kilowatt-hour battery pack, whatever rear-wheel drive, or one megawatt of power, which is 1,300 horsepower. Yeah. Just a fast EV. And that was, we only found that out because of the interviews, some of the engineers did later. It is not listed on the website. We don't actually have any specs on what it were.

We're just assuming it is car that looks. like Roadster. Big shout out to Hagridi, Motor Trend, and Top Gear, who all asked lots of interesting questions of Lars and Franz before the event and published their videos. This is where most of my information comes from. So there's the base Roadster. Then there's the performance version of the Roadster, which has a fan system underneath. The fan system, if you haven't seen the McMurtry-Spierling, is basically just a huge set

of fans at the back of the car that are connected to the bottom of the car that suck the air out from under the car. Creates a low pressure zone, pulls the car into the ground and gives it multiples of grip. It's great. It makes it corner really fast and gives it a grip

where other cars don't have because active arrow needs a lot of speed. Then there's the thruster version of the car, which has that, and adds four rocket thrusters to the back of the car.

They're connected to a 200-liter a carbon overwrapped pressure vessel that's sitting right behind the driver's head and holds about 100 kilograms of compressed nitrogen at about 10,000 PSI that can burst for about 4 to 5 seconds, send you 0 to 60 in under 1 second, and then it's empty. Then there's the highest end rocket version of the car,

which adds another double-sized 400-liter carbon-overab pressure vessel in the passenger seat next to the driver, making it a one-seater, and also adds six other thruster. around the car, facing down and facing sideways for yaw control. And that's the one that performed, you know, the crazy trick that could theoretically jump or turn in midair. That one on their website says it's by invite only and is not a proof for public use, obviously.

Yeah, the thrust version is limited and then the performance one you can just reserve. They are performance is 5,000 down now, 45,000 due in 10 days. Thrust is 5,000 down now, 240,000 due in 10 days. and then we don't know base or rocket pricing. Yeah. So all of that is pretty theoretical because again, this car was announced like many, many years ago

and now it's pushed to 2028 and still doesn't exist. We saw that one demo car. They did a couple demos in front of people in front of a live audience, but like still, I sort of ended my impressions video of the event saying,

look, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice. Won't get fooled again. No, won't get fooled again. I, obviously have been waiting for a roadster for a long time and you know they they do this big show this crazy demo it is no is no question an incredible demo and like a really fun thing for people to

watch and then the product itself like details just don't make it out like that's not even important to this thing at all well hold you did you did leave out three really important details about the car from okay um the first is that and these are uh exact quotes um the car will be sentient that's an exact quote about the roadster. That was a tweet later. That was a tweet later. Yeah. It will be able to perform all of those maneuvers autonomously.

So there will in theory be no control system for the roadster. And at Tesla HQ, they are building a life-sized Hot Wheels track for Roadster owners to perform any of these stunts themselves. In fact, the exact quote is crazier even than Hot Wheels. Yeah. One other thing is Elon said. on stage, live during the event, they just sort of like asked how fast should the top speed be

because they're sort of re-announcing all of the specs. And, you know, if you ask Franz or Lars in the engineering sessions, they're like, it'll go 230, it'll go 235, it'll go 250 or whatever. And then Elon goes, I think it should be able to go half the speed of sound. Which for those who are doing the quick math, yeah, that's 380 miles an hour,

which no production car has ever done, and it'll be probably 50 years before another car like even gets close to that. Tires can't do that right now. That's just not going to happen. But he did say that on stage. So yeah, where do we even start? I guess the main thing everyone's wondering is

why should it do that? Let's start at just the three demos. And like in a vacuum what the three demos were, they were impressive and also raised some questions. Okay, so the fan car demo, that first one, driving up this super smooth ramp and then coming back down because it's a fan car. Really cool demo. Not the first time we've seen it.

The McMurtry Spearling that I mentioned earlier is a fan car that's been in development very publicly and on social media for a long time, which is also an EV. It's also a super lightweight, incredibly crazy sports car. And they have literally driven it upside down before because the amount of suction that it creates is more than the mass of the car. So it can drive upside down. It's a cool demo, obviously, but like the practical application of that, if you watch the McMurtry Spearling videos, is that car has so much grip all of the time in a way that Active Arrow can't, that it can, it literally can snap like three or four Gs of lateral acceleration, which you'd never see from just tires. So it's really, really great. It breaks track records every time. It's kind of like a cheat code.

It's insane. I think that's an important note too is track records. Yes. This thing is, it's active arrow underneath the car. It's suction. Like, these things can only be done on a track. And even still, the track has to be perfectly maintained. Smooth track.

I mean, presumably it has mesh in a filter system to not suck up too much stuff, but like this cannot be used on an average road. Yeah, they're really loud. I don't know if you've seen the videos of the Spearling, but they're super, the fans, they turn them on. there's like a dial of like 10,000, 20,000 RPM, and like you hear the fan spin up, and it's crazy loud.

And then it just accelerates in this like 1.4 seconds zero 60, this burst, and it's just insane to watch. But yeah, it has this like skirt system that drops down underneath the car to create like a suction area for that low pressure zone. Yeah, like a pressure vacuum. So it's really, really cool. It's a science experiment we've seen in development.

And it almost doesn't surprise me that like Tesla comes along with this like big, pockets and it's just like, oh yeah, we'll do that too. And then they just throw a bunch of engineering talent at it. And they're like, all right, now ours can do the same thing. So that is the first demo that we saw. It's cool driving up the wall. Really tall, like Ellis said, a half pipe turned on its side. So it's like literally perfectly vertical and just sitting there. That was the first demo. And then the next demo, it does that again, except drives off the upside down part of the top. As one does. Flips over and falls down and you see all the cold

gas thrusters shooting all over the place and falling with style down to the ground. If you just take what we watched at face value, then we just watched a 3,000, 4,000 pound object fly through the air and then land. I almost don't even want that to exist on the street. If you've seen the way, obviously it will never exist on the street. It's not street legal. But like the demos that they're doing don't have much practical application. They're just sick demo basically. So you can't jump over traffic. You can't jump off a bridge to avoid the traffic on the bridge onto another highway overpass or whatever. Like you can't actually do that anywhere. That's why they will have to build some sort of a private track for rocket roadster owners to

demo this thing because that's the only place you can actually use it. They did the demo hundreds of yards away from the live audience and gave them hearing protection because the thrusters are so loud. It would be really, really hard to like listen to that. in person, really, really loud stuff. So obviously not street legal, but I think when people watch that, they think, well, some fraction of people go, oh, that's never going to happen, that's never going to hit the road, but some other fraction of people think, oh, that's cool, they can jump over traffic. I can't really get a gauge on who really thinks that or who just wants to make the coolest AI video on Twitter about jumping over police cars. They're all memes.

Yeah, they're all feel like memes. The memes have been incredible. I wouldn't be surprised if there's people who think that singular thrust is going to be like street legal, which I don't, I'm wondering how they're going to do all of this. Are they going to have to geo-fence like these features? Because that's not something you can just be like, oh, it's illegal to use on the street

because some idiot's going to do it. Like, remember when David Dobrick launched the Model X off that like San Francisco? Oh, yeah. That would be in the Pacific Ocean if it had like, if they did the thrusters. Yeah. So like we can't let people.

out there, even attempt to try and use this thing illegally. Dude, are you a communist? Apparently. I've seen, so there's different, in the sports car world, there's different levels of how restricted not street legal things have been. So sometimes there's a mode in the car called track mode, and there's a little fine print that says do not use on public streets, but you can just turn it on and do it anyway.

Yeah. It's probably not illegal, but it's like not recommended. and the car will not have the liability because it told you not to do it. Then there's things like, you might remember the W1 video, cars are not allowed to have like things overhanging the back bumper.

So if you do, you need some sort of flag on it, like if you're towing like some food by fours or whatever, you need a flag. So it had this big wing, this LT wing that extended over the back bumper. That's not street legal. You can't have it extend over the back bumper. So they gate that to race mode

and then they gate race mode to GPS locations of tracks and drag strips only. So you literally can't, enable that feature on a public street, which is another version of this. There's all sorts of little stuff like that. Like this concept car had no windshield wipers, had no side view mirrors. Lars, or maybe it was Franz, suggested that you could like attach the windshield wiper whenever you want and then detach it whenever you want.

And same thing with side view mirrors. I talk about this all the time. I think that's one of those cases where you have to sell the car with the thing that's required and then you can make it user removable later. that's another version. But yeah, for a 10,000 PSI cold gas container behind the driver to expel a bunch of gas, I feel like they should really restrict that to not be possible anywhere other than a drag strip. Yeah.

That seems like the only place you'd use that. And then in terms of the like the kickflip demo where first of all, that was the most real-life Rocket League thing I've ever seen. Because it clearly was real. There's people there watching it. But like when we think of flying. we think of this like gradual takeoff and this like lifted and then as it's flipping looks really strange because you can tell so much of the thrusters are like calibrating itself mid-flight to be like okay over correct under-correct figured out land nicely which looks like the boost rockets in rocket league

where you're like trying to direct yourself to the ball correctly less like flying more like I don't even know how to just like mid-air maneuvering yeah and that I want to bring up the the quote Ella said before, Elon responded to somebody saying that, like, you will be able to do this autonomously. My first thought in that was, is this only going to be able to be done autonomously? The more I hear, the more I think so. I think this is going to be a party trick that you launch with your phone out of the way because a person inside of that thing, even if it lands perfectly, even just the like jerking your head around, like trying to keep in there, even if it lands perfectly fine. It's like an RC car, basically. Yeah, that's, like, the most intense roller coaster you could

ever imagine. So, thinking about, like, being inside the car, like, when you crash test a car, they have to, like, make sure that the roof of the car can support the weight of the car. And that's in case of a roller over incident. So if the car rolls over and ends up on its roof, it can support the weight and not cross the driver. Yeah. If this car can jump 20 feet in the air, that means it can fall 20 feet onto its roof. Which is glass, right? That's, uh, I don't even know. The above shop It makes it look like the scissors doors or whatever. I don't even know. But like you'd never take the liability of having a driver in the car while that happens.

Yeah. And then you think about like, okay, doing the flips and stuff. And the way it's described by the engineers and all the things that we watched, and the demos we watched were all autonomous as well with the flips and stuff. The more you watch that, the more it seems like this is going to be a thing. Remember the Benny robot that we had? Which does a little kickflip or whatever. It's just a button that you press that can do the maneuver.

in the right environment and you don't really have any control over it while it's doing that maneuver and then it's over. And you did the party trick. I think that's what it's going to end up being the more I see it. I mean, if it ever gets made.

Yeah. That's the other thing. But yeah. I mean, and it's still crazy to see that. I don't think any, I know it's going to sound like we're like absolutely poo-pooing this thing and that's just because it's burned us before.

But like it was really, I mean, it's probably the craziest demo. Yeah, it was a crazy. Anyone's ever seen. For sure. I mean, I actually was watching hockey, and I just looked and saw all the Slack notifications going crazy, and you guys were losing it.

I was like, I have to see this. We're too busy beating the Rangers. But it was one of the craziest demos ever. It's just, it's fine for it to be a crazy demo and to realize that this is a car that was supposed to release almost 10 years ago that literally just doesn't exist anymore. And now this is also two years,

2008, when this quote, comes out. Yeah, lots of unanswered questions because the event was basically like no information at all. But one of the bigger questions is, okay, so for people who bought the other roadster, they literally, I think Franz called it the middle roadster, which is funny because it never came out. But for people who like reserved that car, this is a completely different car. Are they going to keep their reservation? Are you entitled to keep your reservation? What trim does that get you? What are the prices of the different trims. Yep.

And that even had like the Founders edition was like a special paint color that you paid more for. So what happened was with the roadster we've only ever seen, with the middle roadster, we've only ever seen red and white. There were two reds though, weren't there? Wasn't there red and Founders red? I don't even know if it was a different red. I thought the Founders series was red and it was the first thousand off the production line.

That's all it really got you. It was the highest end thing. And then we started to see like random. him tweets about like SpaceX packages and we were like okay is the founder series also going to include that stuff and it was like just wait this car is going to fly and we're like all right whatever so now that we have all these new trims like base roadster performance roadster thrust roadster rocket roadster what happens to the people who put money down on the old car what happens to people who put 250,000 dollars down a decade ago on what they thought was going to be

a 600 mile four-seater and a roadster by the way which means a has a removable roof. This one. I imagine they get the $250,000 thrust version maybe. I don't know. Are those people going to get emails of like choose your thing? How is, you know, the line going to work of who gets these things first? Like, are people back then?

Which I would think of now, if you're ordering the roadster now after that demo, you're potentially thousands of people late already from eight years ago who put their reservation in. Yeah. Who's getting what? All unanswered. Yeah. Yeah. What's coming up?

first, like having a limited version of the rocket one has the best opportunity of like sell 10 of these in two years and then it launched. But now the other ones, who knows when those are going to come out? Tesla loves to have their base cheaper versions, put the really expensive versions out for a while and then you just never see a $35,000 cyber truck. And I think Marquez sent an image to the slack the other day. I assume from an agreement when you're signing up for the new Roadster that said, you understand that the Roadster is still under development at the time you entered into this agreement. So we cannot guarantee you when your vehicle will actually be delivered or if it will be delivered. And to me, that told me all I need to know.

Yeah. Yeah. This, to me is, so we see Halo cars all the time. We see concept cars all the time. This was just a demo whose target audience is not people who ever buy this car. That's the thing. Millions of people are going to see this. Almost none of them were ever going to buy this car. The target audience is people thinking about cars, thinking about Tesla, and it's to try to reposition Tesla in people's heads as a super high-tech company that has access to some technology that no other car company has, obviously with the SpaceX collab. And then maybe they'll sell some of these, and it kind of doesn't really matter.

It makes no difference to Tesla if they actually sell them or not. The mission has been accomplished already with the marketing stunt. That's all we can rely. Especially since they don't sell the Model S anymore. Model S and X were canceled. because they didn't sell enough. Yeah. This, by definition, will not sell as much as those cars.

Yeah. So you can imagine where it is in the priority list. For sure. It's a halo. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. It happened.

And then Porsche released another thing, too. Is it even a halo? Really? When I say Halo, I mean, like, it's what they want people to think about when they think about the brand. Yeah. Okay. Like the highest?

Yeah. It was the best marketing. It exists. It exists. It exists. It exists. It exists. It's not like other Halo cars, though, where, like, you can buy them.

You know. Well, there's a lot of halo. That's the thing that's tricky is a lot of these crazy brands have halo cars that are essentially unbuyable. Yeah. You will never see one in the street. A McLaren W1, that's their new halo car, we're never going to see one again. Yeah, now they'll make a thousand of them or whatever it is. And they will eventually, we assume, technically make all of these.

A lot of them will sit in garages. They'll hit the track sometimes. They'll sit in collections. And that's their halo car. The cars they actually sell and move on volume are more important to the bottom line. But they don't move those cars unless they have the absolute apex. This is what we're capable of. And here's a taste of that technology in the car you're actually buying.

You'll never see the Ferrari F80. Like Lamborghini, I'm sure, has some crazy thing that we can't buy. Porsche's just announced a new thing, which they will actually mass produce. I was going to say, to play devil's advocate, you know, you just named two Halo cars that we will never see because they cost millions of dollars, and they're made by manufacturers where all their cars are really expensive and super low quantity.

And Tesla is not McLaren. They're not Ferrari. But they want the image of those companies. But they're a mass production car company, right? So if you're going to compare it to other halo cars from mass production car companies, like the Toyota Century, which is a super rare car, I've seen one on the road.

The upcoming Lexus LFR, we will see that on the road. We've seen Nissan GTRs. Like these Halo cars are cars that like fundamentally exist and also push a lot of technological boundary. Yeah. It's kind of like trying to shift their brand image. So like Nissan, Toyota, Honda, a lot of these companies, they're not necessarily selling performance cars to the masses based on their reputation as like winning Lamar or like having the highest end best Formula One team. And if you want to move from being Tesla and selling a, you know, average, like mass-produced EV, to being able to eventually sell more or have this higher

status image, you got to kind of convince people you have that technology, convince people you have some special sauce. And I guess connecting the dots to SpaceX is them trying to convince people they have that. Which how else would they do it, I guess? And that's the other thing. The end of the Haggerty video, I think, made a really good point. So shout out to Henry Ketchpole for making the point, which is, so they redesigned the Roadster.

Roadster 2. It's red. I think all of us agree that's like a prettier car, like a better looking car, just like a normal looking EV.

I thought it looked good. I get why they made it, like, it looked really good then, but I think it's not as flashy. This is flashy.

Yeah. So they announced that car. They show all the specs. They show all this range and all this performance and zero to 60 and under two seconds, right? And then they go,

but it's coming out in four years. So wait a while. And then we wait a while. And a couple of years go by and we start to see that happen in other places like lucid makes a 1.9 seconds or a 60 car remack makes a 1.9 seconds 060 car. McMertry Spearling shows up has the fan car suction and suddenly that roadster isn't really like a halo car anymore like it's not really doing anything that we haven't seen before and it doesn't accomplish the mission of being that halo anymore.

That's fair, yeah. And so at some point between that 2017 event and now, Tesla decided, never mind, like, we're not doing that. We need something else about Roadster to actually be a halo again. And that's probably when we started seeing, like, tweets about SpaceX and cold rocket thrusters and, oh, we have a better idea. And they just never communicated about, like, not ever shipping the thing that we all saw. But they now have a thing that is interesting again. I mean, you see the clicks.

You see the people talking about it. Like, it is now moved to accomplishing some sort of halo. status, even though it again probably does never have to ship. And it probably helps that it looks kind of like the cyber truck, because nobody else is going to make a car that looks like the cyber truck. So if you stick to that similar design, it's not going to like, it's not going to not hold up, right? Like to your point, the roadster they announced in 2017.

Looks like a car. It looks amazing, but looks like a car. And there's so many cars that look like it now. At the time, it looked very advanced, but now it looks kind of just like a car. Yeah. And so nobody else is going to like make something that looks like it. And I think realistically, like, Normies are seeing this. Normies are not following Tesla closely.

They're just like, oh, he made this car. Great. And like they won't follow that it doesn't come out. They won't follow. Like they change it in 10 years. Like they just see what it is now. And that's the impression that most people are getting. Yeah.

Yeah. It's so, dude. How dare you? How dare you not think this will be out by next week. I don't know what any of you. You are all haters. You don't love technology. I'm going to, I'm sure your Twitter has been an absolute mess for the last couple days.

Oh, Twitter is going to mess. But that's because Twitter is full of, there are so many people on Twitter who have like a vested interest in Tesla success. That's, yeah. Who hear any criticism of kind of anything Tesla related as hate, basically. So if I come along and say, wow, really cool demo. I don't think it's going to ship, though, which is, I think, a reasonable thing to say. They hear that as like, what do you mean? You don't believe in the vision.

And Elon has landed rockets and caught them before. Like, okay, we know all that. But, like, I still don't think it's going to ship. There's, like, a really hilarious tweet about, like, eight years ago, Marquez was so amped about the Tesla Roadster. What changed? And there's all these people who have been here since, who have been, like, following Tesla for a decade. We're, like, you mean eight years ago when he spent $50,000? Like, eight years ago when we all got promised?

this thing and it's still not out. They've been burned before. I feel like a lot of the new, the new Tesla crowd is the post-Elon by Twitter crowd that's like a little more into it and didn't see the beginning of where it all fell apart. Also watch the video. Yeah, exactly. There was no one of watching it.

It's not a negative video. It's just like balanced thoughtful video. It's skepticism. It's okay to have skepticism. People are just like, it's just social media. People just pull shit out of context. I mean, the difference. I think I have a lot of respect for the engineers at Tesla.

who get tasked with these impossible things and who also happen to make like some solid cars. And so the thing that changed from eight years ago is Tesla was really different eight years ago. They were like ramping up and making this new thing called Model 3 and then Model Y. And these really like, holy crap, we can make like a kind of a cheap like EV

that's actually pretty solid and like really efficient too. And like, oh, a front trunk, that's a good idea. Like they had lots of good ideas and we're executing on it. And then mispromise here, mispromise there, over promise here. now it's eight years of that later it's like fool me once

like that's a different landscape so that's why it feels different I cannot stress enough I have something to say I just I have two things to say I have seven things to say first of all I just want to say I cannot stress enough

how important it is if you're even remotely curious about this car that you watch the entire 30 minute event in full not clips because if you watch it in clips it might come across like, wow, that's an exciting demo. Wow, that's an exciting demo.

Like, look at that. If you watch the full 30 minutes, it becomes so abundantly clear that there was zero preparation done in the actual presentation of this. Almost everything else the thing they say is like so obviously either winged or there's a teleprompter or they're like, oh, we're doing this now. Oh, we're doing this now. So just like zero effort, which is insane to me. And then you'll see the end of the event, which is one of the most shocking things I've

ever seen a corporation do on stage, even for Tesla, where it ends with the crowd yelling questions at Elon. What's the rain? What's the price? And Elon just goes, let's do it, kickflip again. And then dips. There's not even a sign-off. They've done that before.

Watch this kickflip. I'm not answering any questions because this is not a real product. But the last time people yelled questions at him, he answered a bunch of things, which was really bad. He said, let's not getting nuanced. Well, people talking about hardware versions with new autonomous things, and he essentially was saying stuff that they weren't ready for, and it was either telling people like their hardware might not actually work with full self-driving.

It was bad for them. Tesla has a, they've had this for a while where they kind of have like a weird style of events. Like we watch a lot of polished tech events where they're extremely rehearsed, and this is their 50th time doing it, or it's pre-recorded or whatever. But you watch car company events, and they're a little different. different. They're a little more. Here's some music and we're going to roll out the car behind a smoke screen and the cool headlights through the fog and stuff. And like Tesla style is like we are talking to the nerds for a little bit. It kind of actually depends on who the target demographic is. Because if it's just like a stock pump type of event where it's like look at this cool thing, our Halo product. They are all stock pump. Well, when they're delivering a product. But think about the last like five Tesla events we've had to watch dude. Like they're all like oh, we'll watch. Oh, it was nothing again. Like Model 3 and Model Y. I remember those events. where they felt the same in terms of like,

what are we talking about next? Oh, here's the new slide. Like, they had a lot of those moments, which was, I think people found that almost, like, refreshingly just, here's the new thing, or just being really straight up about it. But then they've not delivered,

I mean, Cybertruck, so they rolled it out and then said, it's coming out in a few years, so they didn't really have to give a bunch of details. And then you start seeing that, like, fade where it's like, people have questions again. How often do you see a tech event where the audience yells out questions

and then the CEO answers them? Like, that just doesn't happen. So it is kind of a weird vibe. I mean, I don't even think it's a style. I think to answer you and what you said of, like, you said Tesla didn't put any effort into this. I think Tesla puts a lot of effort into it, and there's a common denominator in both of your theories on it

that one person screws that up. And that's Elon's winging it up there. No, no, no, no. Well, I think the perfect example is in the beginning. Franz and Lars got on that stage, knowing full well, they were pushing snake oil and we're saying, check out our cool thing. They're just as culpable in this.

But right in the beginning of it, there's a part where Elon just starts talking and the timer starts counting down for the demo he's about to do. And they have to cut him off and be like, hold on, hold on. We're doing a demo because he's just completely winging. There's probably a teleprompter there for him. And he's just not going off the teleprompter. It's because they all, Tesla wants to be the Joe Rogan of car companies. They think they can just like be cool, relatable bros.

And we don't have to know anything. We'll just like get by on our like. cool, casual, chill bro vibe. When that's, like, not how it works when you're trying to, like, build products that millions of people will have to use safely and abide by America's strict security laws. There's a, I think there's a big difference between their, like, Model 3 event and their Halo product event. Where if you watch the Model 3 event, which I think I remember pretty clearly, like, there were cheers for the spec announcements. They'd be like, it's a, you know, 280 mile range. and people went, whoa, you can do that for this price.

And they had like this very logical, sensible, like, here's what you need to know about this car. Because they knew it was their mass-produced car, and that's the audience for it. But for a product that is inherently lower audience, like people aren't really watching this thinking about buying it, then they don't give those details. And then they go way more over the top of like the fanfare and the look at this cool trick because that's for that target audience. Right, right. But there's also a world, again, just playing devil's advocate here, where if you're doing a halo car, to be like, look at all this cool tech we have access to, you might want to, you know, express in kilonutons or like pounds how much force your fan system can deliver instead of saying,

quote, it can suck the chrome off a tailpipe. I think that was my biggest issue with the event was when I watched Lars and Franz in those three videos after the fact, they did talk like that. And they gave us like the 10,000 PSI carbon overrout pressure vessels. And they told us the one point three, the one megastroids. a watt of power, the 1,300 horsepower from a rear-wheel drive car, and even to the journalist credits. Like, they were asking questions.

Like, so why is it rear-wheel drive? And they would answer. We think it's a better driver's experience. We're trying to save weight. And they would give, like, we're hitting hopefully 1,700 kilograms with this car, all this technical information, none of which made it to the presentation because the target audience for the presentation is millions of millions of people who don't know what that means and won't make a difference to them.

I mean, or even because Elon's up there might be like, I think. we could go a little faster than that. And now everything they've just said is null, and they have to try and fix it. Yeah. Like, what do you think makes positions them better as a crazy tech rocket car company? One, 1,300 horsepower rear-wheel drive,

smaller, higher-density power unit connected to 115 kilowatt-hour battery with double cooling? Or, look at this fucking kickflip. It'll also go half the speed of sound. Yeah. Like the snake oil bullshit that they say on stage, people love that shit.

They eat it up. So that's what they do. My last thought on this was this event feels like it all but confirms that the CyberCab bet is totally safe because no one. We're like, we're not even like... I mean, I knew already, but yeah, that is safe.

That is very safe. There's so much focus on this. CyberCab can just do whatever it wants. It will continue to be geo-fence. It will probably roll out some more things in Austin and maybe... Yeah, remote taxi service is like kind of a slowly expanding thing, but you are not going to buy a cyber cab this year, sorry.

I'll see you on the life-size Hot Wheels track, Mark has. That'll be the one place that someday cars will fly, allegedly. Hey, look, they can fly, but for only one second. Yeah. Well, I greatly anticipate a bunch of clips from this podcast getting clipped out of context. Yes, none of us should go on Twitter for the next two weeks. Yeah, it's a good time. I mean, Evergreen, but.

We're to all my haters. jail right now for pretty much exactly this. And we're just like, whatever. Let's... That's the most annoyed tribute. In America, when you steal from investors, you go to prison. When you steal from regular people, that's just a normal day at the office. Clip that.

We're going to hard pivot, everybody. Just like the roaster when it does a barrel roll. Thank you. So cool. Okay. Thanks, Mom. Taking it back to the duos. There have been many iconic duos throughout history.

Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, keyboard and mouse, peanut butter and jelly. Simon and Garfunkel, if that's your thing. But what iconic tech duo had a feature called Knock Knock? Simmer on that. Well, I've used that. What is that from? I have also. Don't say it out loud.

Oh, what? phrasing. Good phrasing. That's a good question. I know this one. I can say it again if you need to hear it again. Can you say it again? What iconic tech duo had a feature called knock knock? Great, great, great question. It was phrased originally too easy, so we made it a little more ambiguous. Perfect. I love that they're scratching their heads. This is great. All right, well, I'm going to get a trivia point later. We'll be right back. Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.

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lovely track. You'll hear this in seconds. Hello, intact insurance. All right, welcome back. I was kind of joking, but not really joking. I actually do want to briefly talk about Porsche's car event that happened the same day as Tesla's car event. It was the same day? It was the same day, which is really funny. So, Porsche also announced a concept car. See if you can spot the similarities and the differences between Porsche's style announcing a concept car and what we just talked about for the last, I don't know, hour of Tesla announcing a concept car.

Okay. So Porsche. I heard of the roadster. Well, okay. So, Porsche, just for a little bit of background, they do mass-produced cars, but it's funny. They are very much a sports car company that also happens to sell crossovers like the McCann and the Cayenne, like a family SUV type of thing, in much more volume, which specifically allows them the money to develop better sports cars. Does that make sense? As like a business model?

So people know Porsche as the sports car company, even though most of their sales are actually not sports cars. cars. Okay. So for the longest time, very, very long time, they have only made really two sports cars, which is the Cayman and the 9-11. You've probably heard about these cars. The Cayman is their sort of entry-level-ish mid-range sports car. It's very small. We had one like a Gt4 or a while ago. I don't know if you saw it. And then the 9-11, which is like their Halo highest-end sports car. They also have made extremely high-end halo products with crazy technologies that you can kind of never really buy, but a few people could buy, like the 918 Spider or the Terrarie GT, kind of legendary cars.

A lot of words, for sure. So, I mean, that, again, David's following. 918 spider, 1,000 horsepower, hybrid, convertible, like, super limited edition, $2 million car. Okay. You've probably never seen one. Correct. But, oh, my God, what a car.

Okay, so that means that the highest end mass produced car that they've made for all this time has been the 9-11, which is a rear-engine car, and they have made a bunch of variants of the 9-11. They have made this lightweight rear-wheel drive version. I'm oversimplifying car people. Please have mercy. But they have an all-wheel drive hybrid version. They have a bunch in between.

And they sort of range between like $100,000 new and like $300,000 new because they're high-end sports cars. Yeah. So what Porsche just introduced is a car to compete with what a lot of the other high-end brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini have been putting out lately, which is this like $600,000 range of car. Oh. Which has, you know, hybrid systems and way more power and all this stuff.

And, like, they haven't really been competing because the 9-11 is the highest end car that they've mass produced. So it's the Mission S. It is a new design, which has a lot of, like, hidden cues of, like, the greatest hits of their old designs. It is mid-engine. And they announced no specs at all. They simply showed the design of the concept car, the outside. They opened the doors. They showed you the inside.

There's very few screens. They have a magsafe mount for a phone. But these really cool seats, this harness seat, and it's mid-engine. It's got quad-tail pipes, these really cool headlights and DRLs. The back kind of has luce vibes of this like car inside of a car. Oh, car inside a car. It's like a curved on the outside and then another curve on the inside. A hundred percent.

Believe it or not, that's referential to another older Porsche that kind of had the same look and had some racing success. So that's like a nice touch for historians. But I agree. But it looks like the wing comes up. And then it doesn't look like that. It does come up. It does come up. It does come up.

Yeah. Yeah. So they announced this car. They show it off. They do not announce a price. They do not announce the engine. They do not announce the performance. They just said, here's the car.

It's going to come out later. Trust me. And that's it. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Are Porsche fans like really mad at that? Porsche fans are mostly loving this car. Really?

Yes. I was going to say the difference here is I would assume most Porsche fans and like car enthusiasts would be really pissed off that there's not a lot of specs in that. And the difference is that I assumed they would be mad, whereas the Tesla fans were like, fair enough. It's in a kickflip.

That's cool. Yeah. So, Porsche has a reputation for making really good cars. So there is an expectation that Porsche will eventually deliver what they're showing us and that it will be really good. So I think people give them the benefit of the doubt in a lot of ways. There's a lot of speculation of like, oh, there's a fan on the top,

and this is probably cooling like a flat eight instead of a flat six. Oh, it's probably going to sound really good. It looks like it has a high... Like, we're looking into a lot of things thinking about what they might do. What's a flat 8 and a flat 6? That's the number of cylinders in... Oh.

And it affects the sound characteristics of the car a lot as well. So that's what the big hole in the top of the car is for? The big hole in the top of the car, you see the fan? That's where the guy sits. There's a fan on the top. You're talking about the back of the car

if you go to the back of it. No, that's a... Oh, the front of the car you're looking at is... Actually, there is the front trunk. They're like, they're like, scoop on the roof. The scoop of the roof. Yeah, there's a hood scoop on the roof, which just sucks in cold air from the front to cool the engine in the middle of a car. But he's talking about... But you're talking about...

See, back here, there's like a fan. No, I was talking about the hoods. Yeah, the hood scoop is cool. We love a hood scoop. The back of the car has a fan. We love that. Got it. But anyway, a lot of the praise from Tesla, from Porsche fans is about the design decisions.

Like, they have this metal key that actually sticks into the car and turns, which they got rid of in the 9-11. Oh. They have a lot of things like... Wait, so it's a key? Well, it's not, like, shaped like a key. It's the key fob. You just described a regular key. I realize what I'm doing.

I realize what I'm doing. It's like a metal thing that goes and you turn it. I am literally describing a key, but it's like the key fob has a place in the car where it sits. Yeah. And obviously connects the car and lets you. It's like not quite push to start, but it sits in the car and the car knows that you're in it. You can turn it on. But you also turn it on by turning it.

So it's effectively a key. Can you also turn out without that? It's a key in reverse almost. It's like. Yeah. It's like. a negative key. No, look at it.

It kind of is. It's the chamber. It has a slot on it. It's got the key part. It's the key chamber. Yeah. A portable key chamber. But like they also did the thing.

So in the 9-11, they famously in this recent generation, got rid of the beautiful, like, analog ticometer with the real needles. And it's just screens now. Yeah. In this Mission S, we're back to real physical gauges that, like, move out and separate and, like, have these beautiful lights behind them. Oh. Super, super, intricate stuff.

And the biggest complaint I've seen really is that, oh gosh, Porsche is making all the stuff we love, but in the $600,000 car instead of the 9-11. It's not accessible. But generally, a lot of good vibes around this car, which has no specs, no price, no performance claims, no release date. It's just here's the concept, you love it, don't you? And so people are not mad about that. Not really. It sounds like people are just happy they're getting the things back that they used to like before that Porsche took away from them. Yeah.

Well, here's my other question is if it's a concept car, don't most car manufacturers show off concept cars and then never make them? Yeah, so I think there's different levels of that. I think there's like the CES concept car, which is like, here's a thing that is really legitimately just a concept that we could make, but we don't plan on it. And then there's, here's the name of the model. Right. Here's all the stuff that we've developed. It's going to come out. Yeah.

So the TIKAN, before it came out, was the Porsche Mission E. concept. Oh. And it had like these cool wheels and it was their electric concept car. And then a year or two later they ship it and it's slightly modified, but it's the Taekan. Got it's close. So that's like a different level of concept.

Like they're going to make the thing. Okay. So not like the Hyundai, um, the, n74. That one, I got the vibe was going to get made. But then there were too many questions. Well, and then they say it won't. Yeah, that felt like it went back and forth like this isn't getting made. And then everyone talked about it and it's like, oh no, maybe you won't like.

They like switch their, drive train claims. It was going to be like a hybrid and then they had something about a generator. I don't remember what they were going to do. It was, yeah, I don't remember. Yeah.

But it wasn't. It was like gas or something. Or hydrogen. Nitrogen. Yeah. Something weird. Anyway, that doesn't, you can't buy that yet, obviously.

Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. Similar to Tesla, no real information on the car other than a design on stage and some cool tricks like gauges that move. It's not a kickflip, but. It's a cool.

It's like, R's flies. Different target demographic. We reinvented the key. Very different target demographic. Like this one has like a very like an analog looking shifter. It's not in manual car, but it does have this sweet looking like your shifter. Yeah. Totally different target demo.

Yeah. But it's not, to be clear, a halo car. It's a mass produced car above the 9-11 and they will still have crazy halo cars. Yeah. I guess my question is, are they taking your money for this now? Not yet. Yeah. Okay.

Not yet. It's not a war hog. It's a, yeah. Yeah. That's a big difference. Tesla's taking your money right now. Porsche's not announcing a price or taking your money right now.

Doesn't have been taking your money for eight years. Yeah. So I assume when you're closer to real mass production, Porsche will announce a price. They will start whatever allocation process they have and people will start to try to buy this thing. Yeah. I won't.

I like it a lot. I won't. I just want to sit in it. It looks so good. Yeah. Does it? Yeah. I feel like the night.

I mean, in white. I like the night. They do the same with their concept cars where they make them in white and they give them like white wheels and it's a little much for me, I would never get it in that color. But some of the other renders

I've seen in other colors, mm-hmm. My biggest gripe is the door looks like just like it doesn't match the rest of the car. Interesting. Right? Like it has this nice hard line

and then the door happens and it goes away and it's this like shadow and then the line comes back on the back panel. Interesting, yeah. It would have been cool if they kept the line through the little car. Yeah, sorry I ruined it for you.

Yeah, never mind. I don't like that anymore. I don't want to play with you anymore. Okay. Yeah, that happened the same day and obviously was overshadowed on social media by the one that flipped over upside down. You know, under promise over deliver. I'm going to say that forever. I have a feeling both of these are overpromising.

Well, Porsche's not really promising anything. Yeah. Just that it might look like that. Pretty much. Fair. Mid-engine. Not that it goes half the speed of sound. Yeah.

The only real promise I gets people going is it lives above the 9-11. And like the 9-11 is a really high-end car. Roaster lives above the 9-11 when it's fucking doing a kick-flip-the-air. Yeah. Anyway, that's all. That's my brief Cars Corner. But you know what? Is 100% real confirmed?

You can have it right now and I won't even take a single cent from you. My trivia point. Oh, yeah. There you go. Also, everyone, I see you tweeting at me that people have figured out how to get developer access into WebOS TVs and are building their own little things. That's awesome. I'm doing it a different way.

at home. I'll talk about it on a future episode. I do see that this exists. And same with Android TVs. I saw this morning that people were vibe coding their own TV UIs and someone made a Wii one. Oh, send me that. I want to see that. It's pretty interesting. And I think I won't talk about it too long. I think the thing that a lot of people are realizing is the way you do it, it's a little bit easier on Android TV than WebOS is that you essentially give yourself developer access over Wi-Fi so that you can hit the console from a separate machine. And I think a lot of people ask Claude like, hey, get into my TV and let me do this. And then Claude did it.

And they were like, wait, you can get in dev mode to my TV just by being on the same Wi-Fi network. Anyway, it's a little more complicated that there's some other stuff like that. We also didn't get to talk about the crazy, the, that's the certificate issuing company in India. For all my ICAN nerds that watched our seven secret history keys internet episode. There was a really crazy piece of security key news that hit the internet yesterday. Wait, really?

Yeah, the TLDR, I know we got to do trivia and wrap up this episode. The TLDR is like, you know how there are those certificate issuing companies that generate giant numbers, and then when you do your HTTPS, it confirms that number, and then you get the lock, and you know you're actually on the site the DNS promised. A bunch of keys got leaked from a major one of those certificate issuers in India. Oh. One of the keys, so the numbers are supposed to be like 100 digits long in yes and like 300 digits long in binary, something like that. One of the keys was four, not four digits.

Just the number four. Are you? What? Yes. What? Incredible. Anyway, guys, there are 71. Google apps listed on the iOS app store.

Oh, shoot. You need to write down one, and whoever's app is the least updated, least recently updated, gets the point. Oh, we also didn't get to talk about the pHP vulnerability. Oh. The drug. No, it's a coding language. That's, you need to cut that.

I don't know how we cut around that. It's fine. The existence of things is not promotion. So you read me an app and I will tell you. When it was last updated. I'm very curious for these. I'm about to die. So we got to run it.

All right. Who wants to? What? Is that an app? That's a really good one. We'll find out. Someone give me one. I wrote Google slides.

I just don't know anyone who's ever used it. I feel like. I like thought, do I just go safe and make sure I pick something that I'm right, that like is real? I almost wrote. You know what it is business? I almost wrote Keep. Was it updated yesterday?

Google Slides was in fact updated yesterday. Yeah. I kind of wanted to do it when what was the most recent and I would have guessed Google Play. Business software gets updated every day. No, Google Play was not one of the most recent. And really, I wrote Google Duo. Google is not even on the App Store anymore. Is it not even on the App Store anymore?

Which is why they deleted it though? I was hoping they just forgot. It's really gone. I was going to put inbox by Google. It's really gone. Whoa. Yeah. Didn't it get merged into Google?

Meath? merged into Google Meet. I don't even remember. Mine might not be there because FI exist now. No, no, no. Fy is different from Fiber.

It didn't merge them? No, they did not. Okay, maybe. So Mark, as you put. I put Google Fiber

because I don't know if there's an app for it. There almost definitely is an app for it. If there is an app for it, it means you win because. Yeah, because I was one day and Andrew was null. Well,

I also guessed Google or duo because I was like, oh, is that what he was thinking? Allo is a separate app. It's just meat now, I think. And it's gone too? Allo was, yeah, Alo was also gone.

And Chia. Duo lasted longer than Allo. Allo was like their hangouts, like, replacement. Oh, Hangouts probably been a minute. Hangouts does not exist anymore because it got merged into. That's what I thought if they had 71 apps, there's probably some vestigial apps that just sit around. That was my guess. I was hoping that maybe it was there for like some stupid reason.

I was going to say inbox by Google, but I don't think that exists anymore. Can I search the list? They closed it down a whole time ago, but I don't think it's on the app store anymore. I need, so. And are we talking about updated on the iOS App Store? On the iOS App Store? Oh, on the iOS App Store? Yes, specifically.

Here's the, here's, this is tricky. There's an app called G-Fiber. Oh, that's not Google. Yeah. And it is made by a company called Google Fiber, Inc. But it's not the same developer account as the rest of the Google app. So I'm, I can't really tell like this is. Yeah.

I don't think this is Google Fiber. Can I see this? Can you link us this list? I'll take the L. Does that mean you win with an app that was updated yesterday? Oh, shit. That's what I was saying. We should have just picked ones.

Let's go. That's brutal. Damn. We should have both said keep. I crossed it out. I thought that would be updated like this year. It was this year for sure, but not yesterday. I mean, a year.

Within a year is the oldest. The three oldest. Number three, photo scan by Google Photos. Oh, yeah. That was a separate app. Yeah. It still is a separate app. November 21st, 2022.

It's still on the app. Oh my God. It is still really good. Number two, the Gboard app. What? I was going to try it on the duo, actually. Oh, maybe on the iPhone. I bet you Gboard on Android's gotten updated a thousand times.

On iPhone, it was last updated May of 2022. That's crazy. And the least recently updated app by Google on iOS is Google Cloud Search. Last updated November 6th, 2019. I have no. idea what that app does. Neither do they. Everyone who worked on that has left the company, I guarantee you.

So, David, congratulations on your point. I'm going to give a quick update on... It's like a participation award. That's literally what I got. That is painful. It's a strategy. I really wish I had done that. I make stuff up question now.

I'm really... I'm sorry, guys. Can I just name a couple apps that I didn't know where apps that Google has? Recapture is an app for some reason. Wait, I've seen that logo a thousand times. I guess it's an app. that Google makes. Fitbit Ace.

It's just another Fitbit app? Just an app for one of the Fitbit. Oh my God. There's an app for Fitbit Ace. Oh, is that like for kids? Which now Google owns? I guess. I own Fitbit, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Google Fi Wireless is still here. Google Tasks would have been a good guess. Google Opinion Rewards. Separate app. No way. Yeah. Wait, when did that get updated?

What do you do it in? I don't know. It's in there. I have that as a separate app. I have that as a separate app. Yeah. You're right. It is a separate out. Google arts and culture.

My favorite thing about that. Arts and culture is great. Yeah, it's dope. All right. Shout to museums. My favorite opinion awards thing is you'll get a question that's like, have you been to any of these places recently? And it's like seven things and one that you literally just left?

Like I just got home for the grocery store. It's like, have you been to like Chipotle or LLB or at the shop right? I know you were just at? And you're like there. It's like, oh, when did you go? the last month, the last week? Have you gotten the ones where it shows you a screenshot of a Google search you did? Yeah, yeah.

And you're like, you took that? Yeah. Well, and but every time I do that, then you press back to look at the other one and it disappears from that. No, my favorite thing is every week I get one that says, were you born in New Mexico? And I say, no. And then it gives me a quarter. That's it. And it does it over and over again.

Infinite money glitch? It's infinite money glitch. Guys, so not much to update on this court. David, congratulations on your 17th point. Marquez and Andrew, you're just behind. It's not even worth it. Incredible. Don't worry about it.

It's not even worth talking about your school. Right. It's your turn. Wow. Okay. Pity point party. Okay. So my question for you is, what iconic tech duo had a feature

called knock knock? You're supposed to say who's there? Oh, who's there? entire guest is based off of Marquez saying, nice phrasing. God, I really remember, I really remember the name of the future, but I really don't.

The feature's name Knock Knock, isn't it? It's an icon. Yeah, I just for Peck Duo. I hope I get this right, because you guys gave too many hints, but I'm probably just wrong. I'm so close.

You know this, David. You know it. Well, it's too late now. I hope I'm right. I want to see yours first. Oh, never mind. Flip him around. Flip him around.

Okay. Wow. So, wow. That is an iconic tech duo. I am wrong. I really thought you guys had this one. I wrote lingo, like duo lingo. And I thought maybe there was a like,

learn how to say hello in different languages by knocking. That's a good thought. That's a good thought. David, what did you say? I wrote the surface duo, but I don't. I think there, so I wrote this, there's like an LG phone that had like a case that had a second screen on it. and you could like knock, knock on the outside

and it would light up and show you. You're talking with the dot matrix case? No, that's HTC. Oh, right. LG had like a case that you could knock on the outside. It would show you the inside. I don't know if it was called Duo, but it seems like it would because it has a second screen.

So like maybe that. I guess not. So I really wanted to give you an easy question. I was really trying to get you all some points this week. Oh. And it better not be iPhone. We went too hard. It's definitely not.

Does anyone have a backup guess? Is the feature? to turn, oh no, that was like the, I was thinking of like the tap tap to turn on the flash light. Can you read the question one more time? What iconic tech duo had a feature called knock knock?

Do you want another hint? Yeah. Can you tell us what the feature does? I don't fucking know. It would give it away. Okay. Oh, it would give you another hint. I would take a little hint.

If I give you another hint, it's just going to tell them what that is. Can I just? We can give you just a different question. Well, no, I want to know what this. What if you just give the hint in its first person who answers? Okay, if I say this was an iconic, popular video conferencing platform. Google Duo? Oh.

Well, yeah. That's so funny that I almost got. I got it right on my first question. I was going to. Yes. I was like, he knows. He's looking at me. He knows.

I remember what it was. What it was was was that if you started video calling the other person, they would see your feed on their screen before they answered. Yes, David. That's what it was. This is tech trivia in action. So it's like what FaceTime does now, right? No, FaceTime does not show, like if I FaceTime you, you do not see my face.

So the way it would work is like if we had two pixel phones or whatever or anything with Duo, I would call you on Duo. And I would be like, Andrew, Andrew, what's up, Andrew? But I wouldn't see you. You would only see it. So it was like a one way before you answered, you got to decide. whether or not you wanted to answer. You sure, no one ever abused that feature. That's a crazy feature.

You're in a meeting. Anyway. I'm taking control. The trivia's gotten out of control. We've got to return to our roots. We're doing one more question. I know it's a long podcast. I need a point.

I need a point so bad. We just got to, we have to take it back, gal. All right. One new story. We did, bam. One new story we did not talk about this week were the discovered vulnerabilities and the programming language,

PHP. You don't need to know what PHP is to answer the. this question. Um, PHP, excuse me, the PHP vulnerabilities affect lots of services,

such as duple, Finky, Jumla, and Magneto. Excuse me. Magneto. Magento. Oh. Which one of those

is not a real CMS platform? Say them all again. Drupal. Mm-hmm. Finky, Migento, and Jumla.

That is. Drupal Finky Magento and Jumla J-O-O-M-L-A They are all CMS platforms Like Jude Law

The actor Please I'm gonna get this one Okay Unfortunately Marquez Drupal is a CMS platform Oh sorry David you are corrected As a CMS platform

Markquez you are wrong Yeah Oh wait but is David right when he says Finky I said You're both right when you say Finky is not a real thing. I made Finky up. Unfortunately, this does almost nothing to the Delta, meaning this was a waste of time. No, I'm further from Marquez.

Yeah. Or closer to Marquez. Yeah, and I'm also farther away. Yeah. You know, what's weird is that a lot of CMS platforms have a lot of like double O's and U's in them. Or no vowels at all. Yeah. Well, no.

Wow. Just most tech products. Yeah. I was trying to give you a point, brother. I was really trying. I should have got that right. It's all good. Read us out.

This podcast has gone on way too long as it is. And Alice is hungry and wants lunch. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa. Who said that? You putting more than his mouth? Yeah. Well, thanks for watching.

Thanks for listening. Of course, we will have much more. Techtober is literally only halfway over. It's insane. We have much more coming. There's literally events next week. It's going to happen. So stay tuned, get subscribed.

See you then. Thanks for watching. MacBogoldre. Bye. Wayfirm is produced by Mariah Zank and Ellis Rovin. A partner in Vox Media Podcast Network. And intro, our music was created by Vainzill. Bing, Duo.

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