Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Is Flighty a Top 5 App of All Time?

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David have a ton to get through. First, it's all about Apple with the WWDC announcement, a potential Siri app, and ads coming to Apple Maps. Then it turns to the Flighty app, the state of Microsoft vs Apple laptops, and encryption in Instagram DMs. It's a lot! Of course, we wrap it all up with Trivia. Links: New stickers! Reddit - Person watching Waveform in planetarium Verge - Apple testing Standalone Siri app New Samsung A-series phones Verge - Ads in Apple Maps Flighty - Intelligent Airports update MKBHD - Windows vs Apple laptops Verge - OpenAI discontinues Sora Instagram - Ending E2EE Verge - Router ban Decoder interview This episode brought to you by: Monarch: https://www.monarch.com (code: wave) Zapier: https://www.zapier.com/wave Socials: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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When I was a kid in either fourth to fifth grade, we had to make. And this is a horrible assignment to give a child. A paper machet. Oh, God. Terrible already. To scale solar system. Wait, so you have like... Which, as you know, is fucking absurd.

That's impossible. One scale. So kids and I... You need like a marble and a football field. Yes. Yes. So my son, my son was like this big. And Pluto was still like 20 feet away.

And I had everything connected with like dowels and strings. And like, I didn't bring that into school. I don't remember. I got to ask my parents about this because I remember this project. you should have done is brought in the sun and be like the rest is at home. It's where it belongs. Yeah, what is up? People of the Internet. Welcome back to another episode of the Wayform podcast.

We're your host. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. I'm David. This week, it's still tarch, believe it or not. I thought we were so much. It is still Tech March. And thus, we have lots of things to talk about. We have Dub-Dub dates getting announced.

We have IGDMs. We have U.S. governance banning routers, lots of acronyms. also some new flighty updates one of my favorite apps of all time ads and Apple Maps no more SORA and a million other little things so let's just jump right into it so many things this week

it's crazy it's a lot of small things a lot of four bullet points yeah the whole outline pretty much but we can at at least vamp you know that's what we're good at bullshit we yap we're yappers Adam's ready to yap and did they even test it oh nice good segue you caught me off guard

yeah did they even test this, you might have caught it on the studio channel if you follow them. They did a short about it yesterday, Eric and Rich. But I was annoyed because me and Rich were transferring files yesterday and I gave him a hard drive. And then as he's going to give it back to me, he right clicks it and he looks for unmounts. But it's right next to erase, like format. Who decided that inject and erase should be right next to each other. Even worse, they both start with a So it's just right there. Like if you're not paying attention.

Yeah. And I think I've done that accidentally once before. But a race does give you an additional prompt. This is, are you sure? No, yeah. And then I panic. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. But I've definitely hit Erase accidentally.

Doesn't Eject give you a, no, no, no, no. But you wouldn't be surprised if it got a prompt. You just hit yes. And you're like, wait, did that say race? Yeah. Your reactions to the enter button are much quicker than reading comprehension. That's true. Yeah.

And it's the same on, so it happened on his Mac. And then it was the same thing on my Samsung phone. It's also like if you go into the files app and you hit the three dots to eject the hard drive or whatever, it's right next to erase. So this is like a standard. Wait, when you connect a drive to your Samsung phone? That's hilarious. Then more than one company did this? Who decided this?

Is it alphabetical? Hold on, this is crazy. Eject? I guess I don't have a drive attached. Wow. Maybe because they're alphabetical. But nothing else? Wait.

I doubt it. No, it's not because right above it's like, it's probably just because it's an action for the disc. If I right-click anything, it's not an alphabetical order. Because generally that drop-down is like folder colors and a bunch of other stuff. So then those two are just like actions that are similar, but not ones you want to be similar. It's like engineer brain versus designer brain. You know, like engineer brain would be like, yeah, like those are two things you do to the drive. I'm going to order them in terms of severity.

Whereas a designer would be like at no point did anyone ever choosing between those two options. Like they should be far away. ERA should be at the bottom. If we want a good example of a designer brain that may not have noticed something that feels too obvious, we just released these studio stickers, which if you are an audio listener, essentially what our design team has thought up of, which I think is really interesting, is the eyedropper tool from like Photoshop or any design program, except that we have cut it out so there is a, it's not clear, it's just a straight cut out in the eyropper and in the circle

that it's selecting. So no matter what you put it on, it looks like you're selecting the color. A lot of people got very confused at this. Somebody posted on our subreddit, our unofficial subreddit. They're like, I'm confused. How did they get the colors to match exactly? Well, the thing they put it on, and it's because there's a cutout and it's clear and you can see through it. That's what I was saying, like, our designer, somebody said in Instagram, is there a red one? It's like, yes, there is any color you could ever think of. Whatever object you have. Because it is using the object underneath it. Yeah. Yeah. None of us ever thought that would happen. But they're more.

Multiple comments on Twitter and Reddit and Instagram. So yes, whatever color you would like, these are new stickers available. Except teal. It doesn't work on teal. No. It doesn't. Well, it shouldn't. Sorry, Dave.

I will say that it works much better on like brighter, more vibrant colors. I put it on my iPhone blue, whatever the blue color is called this year. And it's like, it's not as poppy. You know, when you put on your water bottle, you're like, whoa. It looks like a red sticker. It's a bright red sticker. It's pretty cool. Yeah.

but on my dark blue iPhone, it's not as vibrant. So I would put it on your more vibrant. You're using an old version also that has a clear outline, which creates less contrast on the overall. Oh, yeah. We're right. I'm using a vintage. We have an all-white outline now.

So no matter what your color is, you should get a big contrast boost because it's... That's a great point. That's a great point. It's a classic of like we've been in the weeds working on this for so long that when it comes out, we assume everyone knows all the things, but now you know all the things.

Luckily, this is just a sticker. and you can figure it up by yourself later. You get the sticker, you're like, oh, this is nice. This is good. Yeah. And if you want new things to put the stickers on, there's new software coming out in June from Apple because WWDC just got announced. You can put your stickers on your software in the Metaverse.

As long as it's not teal. As long as it's not teal. I'm kidding. It's a sticker. It does work on Teele. Yeah. So here's one of our two bullet point. Thanks.

Actually, there's only one bullet point. But WVDC starts on Monday, June 8th. It is once again on a Monday for some reason. I don't know why they keep doing this. Usually events are on Tuesday so that people can travel and not have to travel over the weekend, but it is on a Monday. So, you know, we're going to be seeing what's going on there.

There's going to be some new Apple Intelligence stuff. iOS 27. Hopefully. iOS 27, which brings us to Apple is reportedly testing a standalone Siri app. And we know that Siri is going to be powered by Gemini. and so this feels like it will possibly just kind of be a Gemini rapper, you know, because Gemini has a dedicated app and that's how people interact with it,

but you can also interact with it through the phone, through asking, you know, hey, gee, what's up with this? You can do things via Gemini. I thought a Gemini rapper was just Meek Mill. Oh, wow. Did you have to Google? That was a crazy cut. Not even deep because it was new.

You just knew. If you saw it. Who is Meek Mill? I'm just on. No, there was a Twitter reference. Yeah. Yeah, it's a recent Twitter reference. Meek Bill's been tweeting about AI all week.

Sorry, I totally... He's a rapper also, if you didn't know that, hence. I thought you meant he was actually his birth sign. That's what I thought, too, yeah. Now, Mick Bill's been tweeting about Claude all week. It's really funny. God, it is funny. Okay.

Wait, I need to know now what's his sign. Hold on. Is it a German? He's a Taurus. Toras, bros. Nice. Anyway. Anyway, yeah.

So it seems like we're going to get the Siri 2.0 potentially in the iOS 27 release. despite previously being stated that it will come out in iOS 26.4 or 26.5, German is reporting that there will be a separate app that looks like IMessage when you message it. I thought that was really interesting. Yeah. Because a lot of, this is, maybe this is just because of, what was the new one? OpenClaw, how people were, like, interacting it with through messages. And that was an interesting, like, paradigm of just, I want to chat with my chatbot.

Everyone knows IMessage. Yeah. So an app, that's Siri, but it looks like I message is interesting. It's a concept that Apple could do. I think it's good and weird because, like, it's obviously familiar to iPhone users because it looks like IMessage. Yeah. But then also, like, the fact that there's two apps that look exactly the same, but one is the AI one. I guess you'll never get them confused, but it feels like maybe it could just be in the messages app.

Like, why not just a top chat, like a pin chat that's now inside the message? Which is what WhatsApp did for a very long time. And I think didn't Google Messages do that with Gemini? Or you can chat to Gemini. You can chat to Gemini. You can pin it if you want to the top. There's a chat in there. So I can see that.

I think that makes a lot of sense. It's also being reported that they're testing a lot of new different Siri designs, which is kind of sad because I like the current kind of rainbow-wavy one that they got going on. But apparently it may come out of the dynamic island, and it will probably be replacing spotlight so that Siri can access different types of data because spotlight is fairly limited on what the phone can access. And now that Siri is going to have this new LLM built in, it'll be able to understand more context and kind of reach for different.

types of things. And apps will also be getting an Ask with Siri options so you can get more context about the things that you're currently looking at on your screen. So it really kind of just feels like Apple is following what Google is doing with Gemini, where Gemini is embedded inside of Android and it's just kind of part of the OS. I think Apple is moving in that direction. Clippy. Clippy. Microsoft had it right years ago. Ahead of its time. Yeah. Google, we always say Google Glass ahead of its time, Clippy ahead of its time. They kill Clippy so hard. We're saying Microsoft. ahead of his time and this series isn't even out yet and we're still giving it more credit yeah

data ahead of it bring back clipy that's all you needed to do some people were saying there were rumors that we were going to get a beta drop that included Siri like this week I would personally prefer if they just waited till June and it was one big like release announcement because it'd be more exciting I think the thing I heard was like updated Gemini queries inside of like Apple intelligence but that the new Siri would be in iOS 27 because like they have to drop it at dub Apple needs an event for everything except for AirPods Macs 2

and then they that's where they're gonna drop it even though it probably should have been dropped at last Dubdub even though it probably should have been dropped at the 24 well it was dropped at that one and they're not actually dropped

that event announced and they not dropped at the iPhone event they did drop it you know they dropped the shit out of it they dropped the ball yeah so I mean iOS 27 is going to come out officially with the iPhone 27 so that would be like a September-ish

type of time frame so if they announce what they're going to to do with it in summer. iPhone 18. Yeah, sorry, iPhone 18, iOS 27, yeah, 2020, September. Correct, yeah. That could possibly be the big drop of, like, all the new features, the new Siri,

everything comes out at once, and the new phone happens out of a couple other. We've seen rumors of, like, new features of the iPhone. But we should get some developers stuff in, like, July, right? Yeah. 27 beta comes out? And early beta. Well, the beta comes out on the day of Dub,ub. Like, it drops that day.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Developer beta, yeah. Developer beta, but like people usually aren't allowed to make videos and stuff until... Fun fact. You're not technically... Okay. How in the weeds should I get? I also...

Let's get weedy right now. Well, okay, you are not allowed when you sign the developer agreement to make videos about the developer beta. Yeah. Most people don't read that and don't care. Yeah. But we are in a unique position where we have some working relationship with Apple, and so we try to follow the action.

rules. And so when the developer beta comes out and everyone makes videos about the developer beta that they're technically not allowed to, but they do it anyway, I wait because I agree to the developer agreement. And then a month later, when the public beta comes out, I make a video on that using my experience from a developer beta on the public beta. The benefit of Wayform is we can just report on everybody else's videos and talk about it however we want before that. Exactly. That's that. Should we do the other Apple thing and just get it out of the way? Or what do ads in Apple Maps. Yeah, okay.

Apple's going to allow businesses to buy ads in Apple Maps. And I can already hear people being like, wow, Apple Maps is sucking, which I still don't like it, to be clear. I still like Google Maps a lot more. Google Maps, you probably don't know this, but it's had ads for an extremely long period of time. A Google product? With ads? It's their main moneymaker? That's crazy.

Yeah. No, I mean, if you go on Google Maps right now, you'll just see Dunkin' Donuts around you without trying to search for it. It's so weird. Oh, is that in, maybe that's in Ways. I think Ways when you're just like driving and it's just like, hey, there's a Wendy's right there. Okay, cool.

I don't care. Yeah. It's like your friend pointing out the window. Like, hey. Yeah. There's a Wendy's right there. So it's going to allow people, well, people that want to sell ads to have suggested places

at the top of search results. And this is going to be based on places that are trending and based on your recent searches. And it will not be a, with your Apple account because all of the data is stored on device. So they're still trying to be hardcore about security about that. And they also say that the places that you go to are not shared with advertisers. Now, that's also what Chad GPT said when they said that they were going to do ads.

But we'll have to see if that's true. It's funny about that is Maps is like a very personal app. It's like where you're going in your location all the time. And I do feel like, and this is maybe this is a hot take. But everyone loves to talk about I would rather have privacy than have personalized ads. But when you're in your Maps app, wouldn't you rather have personalized ads than like, I never drink coffee? Why am I still getting Starbucks ads everywhere I go? I would rather have the personalized ad for the thing that I would actually maybe go to than

constantly get things that are not associated with me at all. Yeah, I feel like that. I would actually appreciate that because I might actually go to the jellybee and I would never go to the Starbucks that I might get an ad for from Apple. You go to Starbucks a lot for a non-coffee drinker. Yeah. Oh, okay. Maybe that's a bad. example. But I just want to say, I've never seen someone go to Starbucks as often and never order coffee. I think people, I just get the breakfast. You're big on the pumpkin bread is. Can I warm it up for you? Yeah. Yes, you can. I think best item at Starbucks is the thing that has the spinach and the feda wrap, the spinach. It's a solid breakfast. Yeah, they got a couple breakfast sandwiches. Anyway, my point is

Google is going to give me ads based on the way too much that it knows about me. And Apple is going to give me ads based on the knowing nothing about me. And I suspect I'll be more annoyed by the ones that are for the thing that I've never considered going to. That's kind of the big question that's been asked for the last few years because when Apple dropped the Ask App not to track feature and then Meadow was like, wouldn't you rather that you had more integrated? And it's like, it's kind of, I don't know, I know a lot of people who buy a lot of

things from Instagram ads. So I've never bought anything from an Instagram ad because I will not let them win. but I know that it can be quite effective for a lot of people. It reminds me of that story of the woman who didn't know she was pregnant, but Amazon did because it was certain. Target. Target. Yeah, Target.

And then I start recommending things for. It was targeted her, I guess. It was also a minor. So. I'll be interested in how this pops up. Is it popping up while you're searching for places? Is that taking over the top of it? Is it just suggestions when you first open Apple Maps is like you think about places like Yelp that were a place thing?

and Yelp is just destroyed, ever since they did all the, like, you can pay to get, like, placed up higher and better reviews or whatever. No one cares about Yelp anymore. Yelp has also famously, like, kind of exploited businesses and called them and be like, we're going to take you off of our recommendations if you don't pay us. That's, yeah, like, there are stories about this. It's crazy. So, yeah, well, we'll see. I mean, it's, I don't even know how many people actually use Apple Maps anymore, but, or not anymore, but ever did. As long as it's clearly marked as an ad

so I can very quickly skip it, then I'm happy. Yeah. That's the hard part, though, is like, what if the ad does look really scrumptious? Then that's a successful... I know, but how many... Like what you said, if you see it say ad, I'm usually like hardwired to skip,

but then there's the times where it's like, that does sound really good, but is this actually good or is this just an ad? Then you've got to do the second layer of research of like, let me click it, let me look at the reviews. I'm hungry. I'm just trying to eat. I'm trying to research right now.

That's why I don't like, that's just why nobody wants ads and maps. Like you just want to find the thing, go to the thing. But the ad's going to pop up and be like, hey, what about, you want to go to this other place? Yeah. No, I actually opened this app just to go somewhere else. Thank you very much. It is frustrating. Even in Google Maps will be like best food near me and it'll give me like a 4.5 because that restaurant like paid for it or whatever.

It's like suggested sponsored result. And it's like, ugh. Yeah, Apple is in this weird place where it's like slowly trying to transition towards other revenue sources because they're scared of the iPhone. making less money over time and all of these things happening and, you know, they can't retain as many people as they want on their other services. This will come up again later in this podcast. Oh, it will. Yeah.

It will. We'll see how that happens. Marquez, what are you more excited about? The A, Samsung A series or flighty? Is that a question? Is that a real question? I literally like the slips when you heard Flitie. Before we started recording, I was like, I think Flydy is like top.

five app of all time. Insane take. And it's not like a multi-platform. It's not like a very broad thing that everyone can use. Not everybody flies enough to give any hoots about flighty. But if you do fly a lot, flighty is goaded and everybody who flies a lot knows that. So it's weirdly and it's tucked away in the corner of like, hey, do you fly a lot? No question about it. This app is unbelievably useful. That will be a flighty ad by Monday. It's just fact. Anyway, they, no, they just announced another thing. So kind of like, I'm describing it as like ways for airports. They're calling it airport intelligence. And essentially what it does is it allows you a broader view of like what's going on with airports in general.

So flighty, for those who don't know, is like a flight tracker app. You put in your flight information, it tells you everything you need to know about your flight. As you're about to fly while you're flying. As soon as you land, it tells you where your baggage is going to be. If it's delayed, it tells you why it's delayed before the airline usually does. All this stuff. It's super useful. So airport intelligence is like, let's say hypothetically, there's something going on with airports in your area.

Allegedly. Yeah, allegedly. This could happen, maybe. The timing for this release is perfect. It's really good timing. So something weird is going on at an airport in your area, and it's affecting kind of all flights and you're flying tomorrow. And you just kind of want to get an idea of like maybe I should go to security check in like two or three hours early, for example. Just a hypothetical.

You would be able to look at the airports in your area and look at their status in this, which is sort of aggregating a bunch of data, I assume from flighty users and from, you know, the FAA and everything contributing to one spot kind of like ways. And you can get an idea of if the airport in question is affected or not and make your decision accordingly. So again, as someone who flies a lot, another useful feature, I will be happily using this. It is kind of slow right now, I assume because it just launched, but it is full of information about every airport. It's crazy that they launched this before the FAA did, but... I think that's the least surprising thing.

I mean, yeah, true. Yeah, there was an interview with the United CEO like a year ago, and they're like, they asked him, what is one thing that you wish that you did to, like, update your tech stack earlier? And he said, I wish we bought flighty. Wow. Like, he specifically said that. He was like, they're doing insanely good things.

And I have made, I think they've made them offers. And they said, no. Yeah. Every time I fly, I get the, my iPhone has the live activity for the United app. for flighty and I immediately dismissed the United one because I just used the flighty one. You should just not allow it to send you notifications. Yeah.

Well, I also click on it for my boarding pass. That's the one thing I have the United app for it, though, is the boarding pass. Everything else I just get from Flighty. Wait, did they even test this? United boarding pass. If you have multiple people on the reservation and you are not the first one, if you have your boarding pass up and ready and then lock your phone waiting in line and then come up, it resets back to the first one.

I've scanned Adam in before on business trips, and then we have to figure out which one I did wrong. Yeah. Terrible United. Yeah. You should be able to pin your boarding pass. Yeah. You should be able to have your boarding pass in flighty.

You should be able to have your boarding pass in flighty. Oh. Ooh. Yeah. Why can't we do that? That's probably a reason why we can't do that. Because they want you to use their app. Yeah.

Yeah. That's probably why. Anyway, so that's that. The other thing that you mentioned, Andrew, is Samsung dropping the new A series of phones. I only put this in here because I thought it was just a note and interesting that they all have the same. battery size. These aren't notes. So, yeah, so it's the Samsung A57 and A37. The A37 will be 449. The A57 will be 549. So these are like your mid-range fighters. We've seen a lot of

phones coming out at this price points. And they look just like the rest of the Samsung S-series, like S-26s. They look like they have triple cameras, but one of them is a macro camera. You know, they make the appropriate cuts to reach these price points. But the one thing they did is they both have 5,000-million-amp batteries, which is the same size as the S-20s. 26 Ultra. So the $1,200 phone has a 5,000-mall-power battery, and the $450 phone also has a 5,000-million-epower battery. It's one of those things where you're like really pumped for the cheap phone and really bummed for the expensive phone. Pretty much. It's like hard to complain about this because I'm so happy that the mid-range phones are getting that. But you got to take that as a

kick in the teeth if you bought the 26 Ultra. Yeah, you can't. I said in my review, so I don't have to harp on it again, but that is maybe the least ultra-ultra phone right now. Yeah. This is the S-26 Ultra. Back to the S-20 days ago. Great phone. I told it like it is in the review. But yeah, as far as the word ultra-concerned. Adam, did you purchase another phone?

BS26 Ultra. He had it last. What color was it? It was a different color that I've seen. It's black. Yeah, the black one. Yeah. I had the purple ones.

How long do you plan to stay on that? Till the iPhone allegedly folds. Hmm. We'll see. Interesting. I don't think that's going to happen. I think you're going to change earlier. Definitely.

Possibly. I thought you were going to say until my next shipment comes in of whatever I ordered yesterday. Yeah. Well, you could buy that or you could buy a MacBook Neo.

So choose wisely. For 1,200 bucks? No. Buy two. The cheap one. Oh, yeah, the cheap one. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, you could buy that

or a Neo. That's wild. Speaking of the MacBook Neo, you want to talk about this Windows 11 problem? Yeah, we can do this before a break. So recent video on the channel

will be live by the time you see this, which is just talking about the Windows laptop problem. This was inspired by the two Mac laptops that I've tested most recently, the MacBook Neo, their 599-499 mid-range fighter, and the M5 Max MacBook Pro, which I've also tested. I was running all my benchmarks on it. It had like 18,000 megabyte per second SSD read and write speeds, which is crazy. It has benchmarked multi-core higher than any other Mac ever, including the Mac Pro and M3 Ultra. It has GPUs.

scores matching M3 Ultra, which is insane. This is a max chip and a laptop. So I'm actually thinking like this is now a laptop that could actually replace my Mac Pro and be my desktop. I might be that guy at some point. But having all these thoughts also made me think, well, what's going on in Windows land? Like what is actually the equivalent of, you know, the highest end laptop you could get and could it be the desktop that I choose to use? How good are those laptops? And so that had me digging into like, okay, what's going on with XPS, what's going on with razor blades, what's going on also with the Neo competitors, I bought a $550-a-laptop, we tested that. And essentially, a conclusion I came to was Apple's Apple Silicon Advantage and their vertical

integration is a huge advantage at the high end for efficiency and performance, and it turns out to also be a huge advantage at the low end for cost. Yeah. And the cherry on top is that Apple doesn't actually really need to make a ton of money on neos on the hardware margin. Services. Because it is, it's basically, as I said in the video, like a Trojan horse for new Apple customers, which then will spend way more on software, on services, on AppleCare, on Apple TV, on Apple Creative Studio, all these other things. So they don't have to make the

$100 on the hardware margin, but they will make a ton of money over time on just getting a new person to be a Mac user. This is the entire Chromebook play. It was get people on Google services when they're five years old, so they will use services for the rest of their life. Yeah. Yeah. So it was interesting to sort of see that in real time

and just like put the machines next to each other and be like, oh yeah, they can make just a straight up better laptop for the same price, and that's going to get people to become first time at people. I mean, a Windows computer has parts from a ton of different companies, and every single one of those companies

has to make margin. That's literally the main problem. It's a disadvantage off the riff. Insane. having to do that and that bites. It's like similar with Android phones. It's similar with tablets. It's just like when Apple has the full integration through it, there's a benefit there.

Even just like making software on mobile, right? Like we see all the time. If you're making iOS software, you don't have to do it that hard. But if you're making Android software, it has to fit. A thousand. Like thousands of thousands of tens of thousands of different form factors and phones and resolutions. and ask for your Google has been so hardcore

about just trying to make Android so flexible with screen sizes and stuff. And that's part of the advantage, right, is there is a choice. Like in Android land, if I really, really, really care about having 8K video,

well, there is no iPhone that can do that. So if I just want to choose a phone that can shoot 8K video, you can find that in Android land. You can find all sorts of other different things you might care about like a folding screen or whatever in Android land.

Yeah. But the couple of phones that Apple makes are like locked in, super tightly integrated, and you might not, be super used to the way they do things, but they do it the same way every single time. So you kind of just get used to that when you're in that ecosystem. Yeah. And yeah, that's kind of the same thing with Windows. Now, in this sort of latest generation, this is the nuance of it, is yes, you depend on

all these different companies who make the parts to your computer to all make their margin, but also make a good piece. You have to have, to make a great Windows laptop, several different companies all executing and firing on a cylinders at the same time for your one computer to be good. You good. So if you're Dell and you make the XPS like I showed, you're also depending on Intel to be making a good chip at that time, which they are. And, you know, your Dell, you have to make a good computer with a good screen and a good keyboard and all that stuff, which they are. And you need Windows to be good. I'm fine with Windows. I like Windows.

So Windows 11 isn't kind of a weird place because not everybody's love on Windows 11. I do not. I haven't used Windows since Windows 10, and I was jumping into Windows. Windows 11 again and I set up this XPS. It took me 45 minutes to set it up. The setup is sufferable. There were mandatory downloading updates and stuff. Once I got through the updates, it was like sign into this, sign into that. Download Microsoft 365. Do you want to use copilot? Do you want recall on? Do you want all these other things? And I was like, no, no, no, no, all this stuff it was asking me. And then I finally got into my clean install of Windows and then I got a pop-up for McAfee to be installed. And this is the other thing. The only other way that

these manufacturers that make the laptops can make the laptops cheap enough to even be competitive at all is that they have to put a bunch of bloatware on it. They have to get more. Yeah, I mean, we see this on Android phones too. Like the Android phones that come with Facebook installed and come with Instagram installed. They don't do that out of the kindness of their heart. They do that because meta pays them to do that. So, yeah, it's just, it's not a good situation for anybody else.

And Microsoft really, they tried to do the vertical integration with the surface, but I just, they're such a B-to-B company that it's such an afterthought for them. We saw this with the pixel for a very long time. the Nexus program, the pixel. Now, TensorFlow. Google didn't really care about the pixel, and they still don't really get. They're trying to care more,

and the pixels are really good now. They're really, really good now. But it still doesn't have quite the level of vertical integration that they would like. And even if they achieved it, they're in this weird spot where they make Android for everyone else. So they're competing against all of that

while also providing them with the OS. So this happens in Google land because they make the pixel and tensor and they're all vertically integrated and they'll give the pixel exclusive Android features and now they're competing against every other Android phone. Same thing happened with Windows and Microsoft and Surface and making this beautifully,

ideally very vertically integrated thing. Now you're competing against all the other OEMs trying to make good Windows machines. And maybe that's like a lead by example type thing but it just never went well. Yeah. And the funny thing about the Google Android features thing is that they also want to make Android a popular OS

to compete with. iOS and so they have to eventually give a lot of these features to the broader Android ecosystem and that's why Google does this awkward thing where they have pixel exclusive features for like two months and then it goes to every other Android phone because they need other people to want to use Android in general and it's also why they had that weird bromance with Samsung for such a long time yeah Ellis you look like you really want to say something I know I've just been fighting a Windows PC all week and and like to be honest I it's all tinfoil hat stuff like because it's a Windows PC that on paper has a really good graphics card and a really good

or good enough graphics card and a good enough processor. But like, and we didn't build this PC. And it sort of is the things that, you know, you, I think you've been talking about, Marquez. Like, like, it's for a video we're working on that involves this like peripheral device that connects via USB 3.0. And it keeps crashing all the time. And I couldn't figure out why I kept crashing.

And my working theory right now and I haven't like tested this. So again, it's tinfoil hat is that the, USB 3.0 ports on this computer are just not USB 3.0 parts. That's my best guess. Because when you, and the USB 3.2 ports are USB 3.0 ports. And it's like there's no way the company who built this PC, you know, they didn't build the ports. They definitely got the USB I.O. box like from. The motherboard. Yeah. From someone else. But it's like that, it's sort of what you're talking about. It's like you need all. Or like for some reason, not a single Bluetooth keyboard will connect to this PC. Not one. There's one Logitech keyboard in the whole office that will connect for 30

seconds and then immediately disconnect. And the rest of it's not like I haven't tried all 100 Bluetooth keyboards that are in the office. Who could those be? Where could those have come from? I just, this is all ringing very true. It also is shaped like a shoe. Well, I was trying not to say it. I don't know if any of these are the problems. I don't want to out. There's a chance, like that computer doesn't get used very often. There might be some driver updates that are in there that we haven't like dug that deep into where like it was dormant for a while so totally and some are probably that but some are also like it should be easy to figure out what those problems are yeah i don't want i don't want to accuse anyone of counterfeit USB ports but i genuinely cannot i'm at the point now where

i'm like why why does the USB 3.0 cable not get USB 3.0 speeds until it's in the 3.2 port why does the 3.0 port not give 3.0 speeds yeah yeah what yeah yeah Sorry, I was looking into the eyes of your hat for a second. Yeah, I should probably address this. This is Franklin, the mascot of the Philadelphia 76ers. Thank you to fan Michael for the sick hat. I'm going to wearing this the whole episode. Why do they have a cat as the mascot?

It's a dog. That's a cat. That is a cat. A thousand percent of a cat. Isn't Franklin a turtle? He has whiskers. Franklin is Benjamin Franklin, the founding father. That's half of the things in Philadelphia.

He was a dog? Benjamin Franklin was, in fact. What number president was he? He was president number six. And when he signed the Declaration of Independence, it was a paw print. He got that dog in him. Cap print. To bring it back, I think the best way...

I didn't notice that. I feel like the best way, if you really want an example of the difference between like the vertical integration in Apple and the vertical integration in Android windows, go on our Apple and go on our Android and watch. Everyone in Apple is just generally mad at the same thing. where everyone in Android is mad at each other because even though they're all using Android, they're all fans of different companies of phones and they all hate each other.

It is just the wildest infighting ever. And like now imagine all of those different people need to work together and build something like that. And to be fair, like... I'm a full Android and Windows user at home, by the way. I only use Apple stuff at work. I like Android better than iOS by far. And there's a great piece by David Pierce.

he tried to use Android for the last four months, and he used a bunch of different phones, and he really liked the Fairphone 6, but it doesn't work on Verizon, so you couldn't do it. But he went back to iOS because his conclusion was effectively, phones are app machines, and iOS has better apps, and he relies on too many iOS apps to go back to Android, which sucks, because Android is a way better OS. Well, I want to play devil's advocate because as someone who's fully Apple, you know, ecosystemed up. There are a lot of these like vertically integrated things in the Apple world that are like not supported to the degree they should be. Like freeform has like six updates that they just

need to add. Like there's just no excuse why freeform doesn't have these things. But I just don't think they care enough about free form to do it. I don't think they do. And there's a but or like why does the Apple mail app still kind of blow? Or like so you know what I mean? So you know what I mean? It's email. When you're just the default and you get to be the default thing for what, 80% market share of the US, like, why change?

Why update it? Yeah, but like, why is it so hard to rotate something on the desktop version of Freeform? And why is it so hard to select multiple objects on the mobile version of Freeform? I would like to see the user base for Freeform. It's me.

Yeah, I know. That's all of that. Your average Apple users, definitely some people who hate Apple, screenshoting you in that cat hat right now? Like, average app, please. There's also, it's kind of like either that or the massive graveyard of stuff that Google tries

and then just kills a year later. So it's like, would I rather have the kind of weak updates, but at least it works the same way every time on one side of the fence? Or like Google launching an app and me going, I don't think I want to switch to this because I don't trust them to even keep this alive for a year. Rip inbox, bro. That's so true. So it, yeah, there's choice on one side.

but there's the upside and downside of that choice. Also, there's at least six freeform users because there are several things that I force my friends to do on freeform with me. So they're monthly. Plan vacations. Free form is excellent for that. This whole conversation is also negating people

who have like very specific needs that software-wise or like needs to be on a Windows machine needs to be on Android. Yeah. Like we're talking outside of that because clearly then we have one option. Almost every business distributes Windows computers. I think that's a big part of the equation.

for like why they are where they are. Especially because you talk about like David having like he come from an iPhone so he's already plugged in and used a lot of iPhone only apps. Yeah. There's a lot of people who play a certain game that you can't play on Mac or there are people who use certain softwares for their business that are just only Windows XP. Like that's a real thing where, okay, now Windows XP has a massive market share because that's still stable and that's the thing that we use and that's where our apps are.

So like if your dependencies or you're plugged into one specific thing, like I'm a Mac user, I, you not because I'm supposed. to Final Cut Pro. Yeah. That is why I started using a Mac. Yeah. And now here we are a decade later, and I'm in the ecosystem, and they got me. Yeah.

That's the point of Neo. That's the point of like all these other, you know, feelers, is to just get a device in front of you that gives you options and hopefully you like one of those things, and then you are sucked into that ecosystem. Yeah, I mean, I was the lead reviewer at Android Authority for five years. I didn't use an iPhone until the iPhone 13 when I reviewed it, and I didn't switch to an iPhone until the iPhone 15 because I had USBC. I would have never touched an Apple device, and all of my dependencies were in Android.

Like, I could use my world. People were, nobody texted, because when I lived in the Bay Area, everyone used Facebook Messenger. But then I moved here. And now, I swear, I am in so many I message group chats that every time I test an Android phone, they bully the shit out. Now, look at you. What have they done to our lad? I know. And I know that you say that's not a real problem.

But bullying is real. Okay. I don't like crying. Do you like crying? It sucks. We should get on GroupMe. Oh, my gosh. One fact.

Oh, my God. Worst app of all time. First messaging app of the MKBHT business. When Brandon and Vin started. It was a group me. Well, because Marquez and I were in a GroupMe for both of our ultimate teams at the time. Every Frisbee team I've played for for 15 years until like last year was a GroupMe team. That's unbelievable.

That was the most like feature, not an app app of all time. It's genuinely, I was talking about Flighty being one of the five best. GroupMe is one of the five worst. Worst. Worst. Yeah. Of all time. Yeah.

Yeah. I want to make one final note related to this, and then we can take it to break on the Windows 11 thing. Dave 2D put out a really good video recently about this. And kind of the gist of this was that a number of years ago, like five or six years ago, he had all of the Windows manufacturers send him laptops that were in the same price rage as the Apple M1 Air, I believe, so he could compare them. And all these manufacturers like, sure, here's our laptop that's that price. And then he asked all the same manufacturers this year to send him laptops that were in the same price range.

And they were all like, no. And I feel like that kind of distills the entire thing. That's all you really need to know. Because they're all afraid. They knew the video he was going to make it look negative. Yeah, it was going to make it look terrible. They didn't really know at the time how insane M1 was, but they still feel five to six years behind at this point. So it's crazy.

Yeah. So go watch the video. If you haven't already. I want to say something nice about Windows. Go for it. Because everyone always tells me I'm too mean to my Windows green bubble people. I know those are two separate things. Windows Green Bubble.

To me, you're the same. But. Yeah, that's fair. Something nice about Windows, I like that they support old graphics engines. I like that I can still get a direct X driver that runs on a modern Windows motherboard. I think that's cool. Apple does not. do that. Pre-pre-metal stuff, very hard to run on Mac OS.

Direct-Dex stuff, very easy to run on a Windows computer. Pre-metal, we used like rocks and fire. Yes. That was the name of the old Apple graphics engine, actually. Rocks and Fire. Yeah, Steve Jobs was super against it. Yeah, and then when Johnny Ive came in and he said, aluminum, and they knew it had to be metal. That's a great place to jump to trivia. What was the old graphics driver? Apple.

Rocks and fire. Today we're doing a number question and it's Delta, not Price's right rules. Is it United? No, it's Delta. We'll talk about United later. Yeah, we will. Will we? Yes.

I thought. I think we lost our chance to talk about United. Oh. Yeah. Also, we don't have to talk about it. That's really cool, but they're like the seventh airline to do that. So I was sort of like, why are we freaking out about this? Skycats.

It's called Skycats. It's mingling badzator. In regular class? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I thought that was like a super, super, super premium. Crazy feature.

No, no. Most other airlines just call it. The first one that did it. You're talking about what you're talking about? Okay. United was like, guys, you could get a whole row. Yeah. And then we'll like, we'll like, you can turn it into a bed.

And relax. Relax row? Relax row. Other airlines call it Sky Couch. I think Jet Blue does this too. A bunch of the European Airlines do it. This is not like a new groundbreaking thing. This is like a United catching up sort of thing.

Well, they pretended it was. Anyway, well, of course, that's a business thing. But anyway, today. trivia question is. Yeah. Delta. How many Wikipedia pages have the title Apple TV? Hmm.

I'm assuming it counts if it's like Apple TV parentheses. Yeah, yeah. And I'm only accepting Apple space TV, by the way. Those, that exact set of, was that nine characters in a space? What about like, would Apple TV plus count? Seven characters in a space. Or does it just have to be? be Apple TV. It's APPLE space TV and then something in parentheses.

Oh. How many Wikipedia pages have that exact title? Damn, Delta. Pretty good question. Can we do a quick shout out? Yeah. Sure. Someone on a subreddit watched Wave Form out of planetarium.

Yeah. Yeah. It was so cool. I kind of want to know what that sounded like. It was probably so bad. It was probably like a bees-ass. Dude, I bet no, I've currently found it amazing. I was.

Probably the opposite. When I worked at Liberty Science Center, the planetarium was sick. and it was also, it sounded really good. I don't remember why I remember it sounded really good, but the videos that they played, because everything's like you're looking up, everything's around, your speakers everywhere.

Your visual field is making it sound better. Yeah, at least my memory of it was that it sounded sick. I really hope they played the episode or Andrew says he can't name all the planets. I just, I wish he stretched it. I wish there was a stretch to fit somehow

because seeing one of our giant faces, circular like over top of that is what it felt like to watch project hell marry in the front row in 70 miller man i've seen the the clips of like oppenheimer from the front row i just like crimson chin i watched opaheimmer from front row and i watch project hell mary from the front row amaze amaze amaze shout to that person on our subreddit yeah uh all right we'll think about the trivia question answers at the end like usual we'll be right back yeah i don't i don't think i can't name all the things still can't support for the show comes from monarch Hard to believe it's already spring.

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Medcan. Live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. All right, welcome back. there is some news of a product that was killed but not by Google. Big day. It was killed by OpenAI. It's called Sora. Thank God.

Ring a bell? Anyone? Anyone remember remember Sora from a couple months ago? I actually remember making a video when Sora first came out. We've made two, I think. Yeah, two now at this point. Of their video generation models. Yeah.

Generate models. SLOP. Yeah. But it would get higher and higher quality over time. And I remember the first videos from Sora, you know, they were, you know, Will Smith eating spaghetti. like higher fidelity than before, and it got better and better, and it costs more and more and more. And then Open AI was like, this costs too much.

Yeah. And I'm glad they made that realization because, I mean, there's other video generation models out there, but Sora was like the big one that everybody knows about from Open AI. And they made the decision to kill the Sora app, and I assume the entire AI slop generator from top to bottom is now gone. They'll probably turn those GPUs towards something else that we're very excited about, maybe. But yeah. No more SORA. Yeah, big day to dance on a grave. I'm dancing boy. Yeah, what's the meme of like, is he giving the peace sign or the praying sign? Oh, yeah. Where he's like in front of the grave. Yeah. Yeah, Sora was bad. The funny thing about this

that we reported on when it happened was that Disney had made a one billion dollar investment deal with Open AI about SORA. Yeah. And Disney said, we are going to invest a billion dollars in Open AI over X period of time. And SORA is going to be in the Disney Plus app with AI generated versions of our characters that you can just sort of scroll through on the Disney Plus app as a sort of like little Disney TikTok feature. This never launched. And reportedly the SORA engineers didn't even really know that Sora was getting killed.

They even put out a guidelines as to like their safety standards about Stora the day before they announced that they were killing it, which is very funny. And now that $1 billion. deal is not happening. So open AI can't find money and now they really can't find money. I guess a billion dollars is like pocket change for them. I mean, I guess how much money were they burning in the process of billions? Yeah, probably more than that. And also one thing you should know is that pretty much every open AI deal is not real money. It's like the idea of money. Nothing ever really happens. Everyone's like, Nvidia is like, we're investing one trillion in open AI and they're like,

what does that mean? And then they just started to do jazz hands and walk away. You're going to be out, bro. You know, none of the, these circular deals are inflating the stock market, and that's why you're seeing a lot of red. A lot of them are, like, promises to invest over time or something. That's what the Disney one was. It was one billion dollar investments over a period of time, and it didn't even start. Yeah, no money had changed hands. No money had changed hands.

Huge win, so it's not happening. Yeah. David, I'm going to give you $1 billion over the next three years. I hope my stock goes up. Sike. Yeah, so another funny thing about this is that meta had Acqua hired a guy to lead the Super Intelligence Lab and the first product that they launched was an AI slop generator video

generator that was supposed to compete with Sora. It was horrible and I think they shut it down too, hopefully. But this is good for everybody. Like we don't need more AI slop. If you're ever on Twitter, there's a lot of fruits cheating on each other on there. I don't know if you've seen this. Fruits? Yeah, fruits.

Yeah. There's some weird stuff. Wait, you guys haven't seen this? I'm jealous of you guys not seeing this. I see mostly, because you can do like the remixes with YouTube videos. Every once in a while I'll go to one of our old videos to reference something and I'll just be like, blah, blah, blah, remix with this video. And it's a short of like a pregnant cat.

Yeah, that's, yeah. They're always pregnant. There's always like a pregnant cat and a dad cat and they're like having a baby. And it's like, your voice over the background. Well, in the background music is always. mea, meow, meo, meow, meow. It's really bad. It's like...

I think it redefines... What should hallucination are you all having? It redefines the word slop. Like, really it does. It's also... This stuff makes a ton of misinformation out there. For sure. Not just straight slops.

Like, literal harmful videos. Yeah. So, I'm glad it's gone. I'm glad I missed that. Dance on the Grave. Speaking of Instagram, meta, doing slop things, Do you want to break this down?

Yeah, I'll try and break this down really quick. IGDMs are no longer going to be end-to-end encrypted by May 8th. This is kind of a... I mean, I think everyone knows what end-to-end encryption is. You and you're the recipient are the only ones who are able to see the message due to a code... Encryption. Encryption.

Yeah. Cription. Keys, yeah. Public and private keys. So, like, this feels like a really big deal, headline-wise. But, like, there's a couple of... weird things about this that make me confused. So I'm going to read out a couple of the reasons why they've said that they're ending this encryption. And everyone can be the judge and why they think they

really are ending it. So they've been, the way they announced this, first of all, meta is not like a full post. They updated a 2022 news post about encryption to say that encryption is ending on May 8th. So like two months away. And a couple of reasons. One, a meta spokesperson said that which I didn't know about. The encryption is opt-in on Instagram, which I never knew about. I'm sure most people don't know about, and they said very, very few people on Instagram

use encryption anyways. Because it's opt-in. Because it's up-in, exactly. Poor... What's the way? Not even just communication, just poor design. I mean, MetaPripe doesn't want it to be encrypted because they want all of that.

Well, yeah. There's a lot of drama going on right now with like the EU and the UK. Yeah. So like the next point is, uh, FBI Interpol, UK safety organizations are all urging meta to break encryption because of child safety because of how much meta in general and Instagram specifically is essentially harming children in so many different ways, one of them being through DMs and with encryption, if the correct people have the encryption on,

it makes it really harder to find chat logs or stuff like that. So they've been, they're urging meta to end encryption. Another thing is meta is just not getting rid of encryption WhatsApp. They're telling people to just move to WhatsApp if you want encryption based messages.

They literally pull the just use WhatsApp. I hate this. And then the last reason, which I think most of us can agree on, is meta's favorite. But maybe the one they don't want to admit. Is yes.

Without encrypted DMs, they have the ability to use those DMs to target you with advertisements and train data. train AI data on your messages, which the reason this is all kind of weird is it seems like most people aren't using it, so they're probably doing all of this anyways. But like the actual end to this is probably just saving them money

because they don't have to run compute to encrypt. And saving them face with like all the public stuff. It's really nice that they're having other people, like government agencies tell them to remove it so they can just be like, well, that's the reason we're removing it. Thanks for the training data. Thanks for the advertising. Yeah.

Yeah. That's kind of, I'll let everybody be the judge of how they want to see this story with encryption. But I think the thing to know here is if you really care about privacy encryption, don't touch a meta product. Yeah. That's like the easiest thing here is the number one advertising company in the world. Yeah. I think meta realizes that like a lot of the DMs on Instagram, they mostly care about you sharing reels and sharing posts and pushing you to other parts of Instagram to spend more time on and gather more data to spend more money. So they don't really care about this. What's, app is still encrypted if you want to use that. But I personally would just stay away from meta products if I really cared about my privacy. Yeah. I mean, speaking of which, they just announced yesterday as well that they're going to integrate sort of like buy now buttons into reels. TikTok shop has this. Or you can be watching a reel or something and then it will show a little like, you can buy this now and it outlinks to a store. Instagram's going to add that. So YouTube Shorts has this already probably. The like little product shelves. Dude, on

Amazon, what is like Prime TV Prime? What do they call it? Prime Video. Yeah. You'll be watching like you'll be watching like Fallout or something right. And then it cuts to an ad and in the ad there will be a purchase on Amazon button that you can just do. It's like holy moly we are

because I yeah I only wanted to watch Fallout and I haven't used Amazon Prime TV in like a really long time and it's like wow we're in the we're in the dystopia where you can literally the product is in your face and there's just a one-click, buy now and chip to me immediately button. I mean, with... It is so crazy. The, like, UI on all these short-form contents, how far are we away from it just feeling like

the old annotation, like, scamming where just there's like 20 different boxes up on your screen? Because we have all these different sets of guidelines for different short-form because depending on where you put text or something in a video, it's going to get covered by a username, an icon, the description, and like, now we're adding shops and stuff. This is already a really small form factor of what we're watching. There's not a lot of real estate there. adding all of that on is.

Yeah, that's crazy. We're just not even going to watch videos anymore. It's okay. They're pushing you to use Instagram on the iPad because all they want you to do on that is watch Reels anyway. And then you won't misclick because it's a bigger screen. Wow. True.

Big brain. Got him. Kind of related. The U.S. government has officially banned consumer routers made outside of the United States, which, by the way, pretty much all of them. Yeah, essentially all. The only one I can really think of that's not is Starlink, because that's made in Texas. Is that a router?

Yes. I guess. But it's not what you would think of in the general sense of a router when you already have an ISP and you're using it as a router in your house. So like similar to banning drones made in foreign countries, the FCC is adding consumer-grade routers made outside of the U.S. to a covered list. And if you're not sure what that is, the covered list is a list that the FCC and Homeland Security Bureau used to add devices that, quote, pose an unacceptable risk to the national security of the United

States or the security and safety of U.S. persons, like you just mentioned, we're all pretty familiar with where technology is manufactured. It's not in the U.S. And like, it's not here. And like, it's not here. Seriously, it's got to be 90 plus percent of routers. Dude, I mean. Are made outside of the U.S.

I'm just looking up all, I'm going one by one to look through all the router companies that they're all like Taiwanese. Yeah, they're all not made here. But even some of them might be stationed or like headquartered in the U.S. They're still not manufactured in the U.S. So, like, first of all, if you already own a router that doesn't meet this criteria, it's going to work fine. But the new ones then coming into the United States will be put on a list where the radios won't be authorized. It's just insane.

Like, it's so isolationist to say anyone not made in the United States. I think that's wild. Like, it would be more understandable if it was, like, from specific countries that the government deems to be adversaries or whatever. but the fact that it is not in the United It's like I cannot name a single router company that is based in the United States They probably exist But they are not mass market

I think TPLink is now headquartered in California Probably made in Taiwan Yeah yeah or Vietnam I forget exactly where there A lot of ones I was finding were made in Vietnam But still that is just straight up foreign country That is not the USS is. What does this do for like IP or ISPs

That's exactly what I was thinking like What X-FINITY? My guess right now is X-Finity Verizon probably have just a boatload of routers in a warehouse somewhere that they're the ones sending to you, but that needs to update it.

Well, I also know that there's sort of a workaround you can do where all of the parts are basically made outside of the U.S. And then there was a thing that some kind of, yeah, there's the thing that some companies were doing for a while where it was like all the parts but one were already assembled. And then they would ship all the parts

and that one part to the United States and they would put it in the thing and they'd be like made in the United States. Well, there's like, guidelines for made in the USA or assembled in the USA. Like there's things that they need to, like more than 60%. Oh yeah, like the Trump phone, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Made you. No, not even on the other than... Also with the Verizon, Xfinity routers and stuff, does that count? Because this says consumer. Yeah. How much consumer?

So consumer, they define as for residential use and installed by the customer. Installed by the customer. Any Xfinity router you can have just shipped to you. Oh, okay, that's what I was going to ask. I mean, maybe that's, it's a weird thing where the way they're... Because the company's the one buying them in bulk, so I don't know if this would like apply to them, you know? The fact that they say consumer grade, I think it's less

of consumer bought and consumer grade. Again, it's like, it's kind of weird. What they're doing is either companies can apply for like an extension to be allowed into the United States if they're proving that they're working on creating a manufacturing aspect in the United States to pass that. Stupid. Nobody's going to do that. We've tried this so many times. It doesn't work. Or like, similar to what DJ. GI says, the company's just not going to release it in the U.S. for X amount of time until this either stops or just not care. Have we seen companies like buy a building, like an old manufacturing plant in the U.S.

and then just slap a label on it and be like, we're going to for sure make stuff here. Yeah, Foxx. Okay, you're good. They do a big groundbreaking thing in Arizona and they're like, look at all these jobs and then just leave them empty. The United States is claiming the routers were directly implicated in the Volt, Flacks, and Salt Typhoon cyber attacks, which were a set of cyber attacks a while. Yeah, but I'm confused because the Salt Typhoon ones was about Cisco routers.

Okay, so this is the funny thing. United States. It's just like, what? They were Cisco and NEC gear routers that were designed by U.S. companies, but the reason they were vulnerable is because the companies stopped providing updates for them. So they were unupdated security risk routers,

which has nothing to do with who made them. That's to do with who's continuing the software up there. So this is like saying, hey, hackers targeted, vulnerable things because they're vulnerable and probably shouldn't be used or should have been updated anymore. That's nothing to do with the fact. I get that there is like

foreign countries that maybe were worried about and stuff like this, but this feels like a blanket ban that is not actually helping anything. Heavy-handed government intervention in tech? No. So the residential thing I'm really confused about because I'm also confused there is if the main thing

we're trying to protect is like government agencies and government information and stuff, like maybe government shouldn't be using residential. That's what the ban should be. Government should stop using residential-grade routers and like buildings or the ones made in these certain companies. But like, why do I need to change? Why does that make a difference if I'm using?

Or have one U.S. company like make a government-grade one or like change one of the routers to be government-grade add features. I think in theory the reason it matters if you have one, Andrew, is that you are sort of inherently plugged into your telecom companies network and like that is who all of these attacks were against were like we're getting into telecom companies networks. I don't know quite enough about this whole thing.

There's obviously so much more going on than what we're saying here, but it still feels like this wild blanket ban that doesn't really... No, I agree. And also watch this is, you know, me predicting the future but watch Oracle launch a new line of U.S.-based routers. Wait.

Oh my gosh. Oh my God, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. No, no, no. This is not a thing that's happened. I know, but it will. You know it will. And they'll be called Freedom Router.

So, God. The cybertext were also on like energy transportation and water infrastructure stuff as well. So it's not just straight up communication or just communications, although those were in there. I also, I guess saying the router was directly implicated. I was like, well, yeah, it was online. It has to go through a router. But it's because those routers were missing their security updates. had vulnerabilities, which is like, yes, if things on the internet have vulnerabilities,

people are going to attack them. They shouldn't, but I really don't know enough about this, but it's always been my understanding that, like, you know, a lot of, I'd be part of what routers are doing are, like, assembling these packets that are going out, you know, and so if they're putting, like, a router with malware on it can put stuff in a packet that can make it pretty deep inside a network. Yeah. That is, like, the most, like, middle schooler-friendly way I can describe network communications.

That's why Cisco was supposed to prevent this. That's their whole thing. They do B2B. It wasn't him. Is that Cisco? No. What? Is that a rapper too?

Shaggy. That's not the first time you've made that mistake. Wait, this confuses me because I feel like if a company in the U.S. made routers and those routers were not updated and weren't patched over time, they would also be susceptible to these attacks. Yes. Correct. So what does this do? I don't know. It's just they're going after the wrong problem.

I don't know. I imagine. That is a very popular attack factor that is not changing. I imagine it is all a bunch of like bullshed to just try to. They're so obsessed with stimulating American manufacturing, but they don't understand like the amount of work that it requires to actually build an entire business in the U.S. making various things. Like routers. Like how often do people buy routers?

You know? Once every five to 10 years. It's just. Most people never buy a route. Yeah, they rent it from their telecom. I just, I don't know. Counterpoint, David, if you had one million optimist robots, you could make them for free whenever you want it.

You know, I didn't think about that. Think about that. How much would an optimist robot cost me? It costs, well, zero dollars just made by other optimist robots. How much would cost me, though? I don't think you're allowed to have one. Then how am I going to get my router? Send the robot taxi for it.

I'll just use Starlink. So, we want to talk about this because, it was kind of hot news in the journalism world this week. Effectively, you guys probably know Gramerly, and there was also an app called Superhuman, and then Gramerly bought Superhuman, and now Gramerly is superhuman, and Gramerly is a product of superhuman.

That's your breakdown. Not confusing at all. Not confusing all. Multiple months ago, but only discovered fairly recently, people discovered this feature within Gramerly that effectively gives you advice based on various different writers that are well known

in the writing world or like the tech writing world or things like that. So if you were writing an article or you were writing, I don't know, anything you're writing, you could say like, hey, what would Nilai Patel think about this writing that I'm doing? That's so funny. Yes. Are you serious? I'm serious. I don't know if it was necessarily you asked Nilai Patel, but it was like you asked a question about writing an article and it would say like, oh, it was called expert review and something would come up as an expert is here to give you an example. And that example would pop up as like, I can't believe I'm saying this out loud, but it said, Nilai Patel and with a verified checkmark like Twitter, which is sitting there for no

reason. No reason. And then it would say like, not verified. It would give some piece of advice. And then to their credit, it would say like, this is inspired by Verge cast hosts and Verge editor and chief, Nilai Patel. Because of blah, blah, blah, have a source button. And then, first of all, no one's going to click that source button. That doesn't count. So yeah, that's what a verified checkmark, Nilai Patel would pop up and say, hey, not just him, a bunch of other journalists. And it would also do line edits too. Like if you had, it would like make suggestions based on your writing.

And they were like, oh, yeah, we pulled specific like pieces of work from various different journalists. And then we put it in this AI model. And now it can make suggestions. And it's like, that's just not how this works at all. Like, it's insane. And this feature has been deployed for multiple months, but people only found it recently. So. Well, no, no.

It was deployed. It took a while for people to go, and it's gone now. They took it away. Yeah, it was found recently by, like, it blew up. I think a few months. I think last year. Gremerely had added this feature late last year. Not a lot of people were using it.

No one really noticed it. And then recently it kind of popped up in the media because people started noticing it. And all these people started writing about it because the people that were writing about it were the people it was impersonating effectively. Every article was like, this is impersonating authors, including me. It was kind of crazy. So funny enough, Neli has this podcast called Decoder. He had already scheduled to have

the superhuman slash grammarly CEO on like the following week. And to that guy's credit, he actually did go on Decoder to talk to Nili about it and the interview was very tense. From the get-go. From the start.

And so it became this whole kind of argument about what is attribution versus what is just stealing and using someone's likeness. And the CEO really just defends the idea that's attribution. He talks about, oh, there's a link that you can go to, and it clearly says that, oh, this is inspired by this person, but, like, it had the checkmark.

The check mark is, the check mark is, you can't defend it when you do, because everyone knows what the check mark means. In every other context, it means this is verified from this person. Right. If it's on social media, the checkmark means this is definitely the person you think it is. theoretically. Why do they put a checkmark here? They put a checkmark here to convince you that this is legit and this is definitely like they're not trying to necessarily convince you that this is actually

the human editing your work, but they get about as close to that as possible. And it's definitely impersonation. You can't convince me otherwise that it's not attempting to trick a person and to think this is for real. I don't care what he said in that interview. I know it says that under that inspired by, but to put the checkmark in is just straight up lying. Yeah. Yeah. There is a class action, action lawsuit going on, which is, I think, why the CEO couldn't really say a lot, because then it could be used against him in court.

And it's insane to me that he would even do the interview when he knows Nelai is very combative about these kind of things. Yeah. Well, then if he doesn't go on the interview, then the article is about how he pulled out of the interview. Yeah, then it looks even worse. So it's either, do you get that? I don't think that looks worse.

He made himself look worse on that. interview for sure. Yeah, he made himself we're going to, we definitely recommend that you go listen to this or watch it. It's both on their podcast feed. Watch it. Watch it. Seeing facial expressions in it is well worth it. Also, the CEO's whatever laptop

he's using should be blown up because the wobble of the screen as he's talking, you're just watching him the whole time back to him. If you watch it as 1.5x screens, it looks like he's in the middle of an earthquake. It's wild. Yeah. This

This really reminds me of when we had these conversations about these AI image generators and video generators where if you would just put in like tech reviewer like Marquez would just show up. You know, it reminds me of the whole like who's in this training data. How are they stealing it? Didn't we do that recently? It was a long time ago. Oh, okay. It was Sora. Well, there was Sora, but there was also like Gemini.

There was. Yeah. Yeah, there was early chat GPT stuff. There was something a few weeks ago where I literally put in like a tech reviewer and it just popped out Marquez. Oh yeah. When we were out South by Southwest, I said add a tech reviewer to this photo and it just added Marquez. And then it said, but it did say, I've added MKBHD. It's the whole, that's the same thing.

It's like, like this versus. The weird thing about this is Nili was looking at. So the reason the interview is so good is because like there's personal stakes here. Like it's literally impersonating Nili. So he's the one interviewing which makes it much more tense. But like what the suggestion it wrote. says it's from using his body of work at the verge and verge cast. He's like, I would never say anything like this.

I've never said anything ever like this. So it just feels like straight up lying. To the credit of the CEO, he said like, this didn't work out really well. How are we supposed to get into the mind of an editor by only using the final published works? Great question. You can't. I know. Maybe you can't.

And that's what they killed it, which I'm glad they got rid of it. but just that's just impersonation and lying at that point. Who's to say that couldn't have just been like an AI software where Marquez, Marquez Brownlee pops up, verified checkmark, and says a piece of advice that Marquez doesn't believe in it at all. Windows is the best editing for AK videos. Like, I love my Windows laptop. And then all it has to say is inspired by Marquez Brownlee's body of work for,

he's an 20 million tech reviewer, blah, blah, blah, source. it's all it's i made it sucks it's very trust me bro and also using the likeness of someone else to prove credibility and yeah it just see how yeah i don't see how you ship this feature and not think it's going to blow up on your face because in the best case version of this feature it's like wow we're going to have testimonials of people going like i love this product because it lets me get my work checked by these professionals and the professional is going no obviously i would not That's like not what I would have done. He said the reason the small team, he kept saying small team.

He kept saying he wants to start there that many people under the bus, which he should be under the bus because he ultimately approves it as CEO. But like if you are, he keeps saying you as the person, like you might want, like grammarly supposed to be your language arts teachers sitting right there and helping you make decisions. So he's like, this is a version where some experts you really respect might be right there helping you make corrections into something. I was like, but I wouldn't make those. But I wouldn't make those. And I'm not there.

It's like, yeah, the reason we like all these people is the like personal connection we have to them personally. I don't want an AI just pretending they're them. It's this is basically, you're getting catfished. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, Eli even said his line edits are usually just like feels messy. And that's the whole thing, you know. And who's ever had an editor knows that it's not very coherent thoughts.

No. It's just a lot of back and forth. I can't wait until final cut ads of Marquez editor. and then like I make a J-cutt and it's like great job Marquez would have done this too yeah that feels bad it could have it's really bad I think Gramerly took the wrong route with this product I think instead of like people like obviously Nelai great writer people love his writing but I think they should have gone with people who are known for being unbelievably opinionated writers and just force like like I want to be writing an email to like Marquez about our health insurance

plan or something like that and then Gramerley's like and then a little AI Slavage Zavage Zizek, the Slovenian philosopher, pops up, and he's like, but what does this email have to do with the struggle of the self? And I'm like, I'd like that. Yes, distract me. Susan Sontag comes up and is like, where are the mentions of gender? Hector Berlioz pops up and it's like, Ellis, you mentioned nothing about Beethoven's terrible use of the French horn.

Yeah, that's fair. I think Clippy could have done any of that. Clippy could have done that. Clippy could have done all of that. That's what you need. Stop, yeah, stop replicating actual people and giving them that attribution is such a bullshit argument. Yeah. Free advice to any CEO, if you run a company that does any sort of AI product and your goal is to have it replace people in any way, think a little harder about how you think that's going to go.

Yeah. Just a little harder. Just hire funny guy. Yeah. Take some accountability. All of them just seem to be like, oh, well, if the models we're using are going to like pull up the work of blah, blah, blah, and they're going to use that, then that's what the models are going to do. Shut the fuck up, dude. Are you fucking serious? Yeah. I mean, every. Pretty much every AI CEO makes the argument that this is not, this is just an average of like a bunch of stuff. So it's not copying everything. It's just making new content based on like a every, every AI CEO is like, well, you could have read all of Neely's writing and then edited like him. And it's like, no, you can't. That's not how this works.

That's not how any of this works. And also like, it sounds like, it's so funny that the one example they're arguing over the whole time is a bad, like just straight up didn't work in the voice at all. Yeah. Which makes it look even worse. I think the flaw with that logic would be thinking that all of Neely's thoughts and experience that he's ever had exists in a training data set. Yeah. Which as a human with their own thoughts and experiences that they have not submitted to a training data set, no. I mean, ultimately, that's what people in Silicon Valley generally think.

Like, they think that you can model everything. They think that with enough information, with enough data, with enough training, you can simulate everything, you know? And so they're like, maybe you can, but we're not even close to that yet. Yeah. That's probably why this interview is so good. Because it's one of the people who you think you have enough data from. And it's like, no, you just don't have enough data. Frankly, I don't want you to have enough data to simulate who I am.

Right, because you're not paying. Because the data that Nilai's brain was trained on are things like his childhood. Like things that you can't, like, you can't do that, bro. It doesn't work. Yeah, exactly. So until you put it in a vat. No. Go listen to the interview.

It's fantastic. We'll watch the interviews. So you can get like sea sickness. Yeah. Also part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. VMPN, baby. Okay. Well, I think we're going to take it to one more ad break.

And then I'm going to yap about a mouse again afterwards. That's right. We love mice. Yes. We love mice. We love Ellis Yapin about speakers. To the one person that has read Hector Berlios's treat us on orchestration other than me, I hope you enjoyed my little reference.

He's famous. I'm sure a lot of people did. I don't know who that is. Ellis, I agree with everything you say and love everything you say about audio. I never interrupted you once about it. I know. It's this composer who wrote a book about how to write for all the instruments a long time ago, and he was really angry, and there's this whole passage in the French horn section

where instead of talking about how to write for French horn, he just goes into this giant beef with Beethoven. And he's like, that guy, Beethoven sucked at French horn. He was a coward on the French horn. It's very fun to read. Oh, wait. Oh, sorry. That was a soundboard.

That was not me. Sorry. Ellis, I forgot you were talking. What were we talking? No, that's interesting. I did that to Andrew in the weekly meeting yesterday where he said something. And then immediately I was like, but what about this thing that Andrew just said? And then I had to DM and say, I'm sorry, do you say something?

Karma. That was karma. Carmic retribution. Okay. Next question. What next question? Question number two. Yeah.

What year, and we're doing closest without going over? Yeah. What year did Apple release Apple Maps? Oh. Oh. You have access to the dock. Wait, don't look. Don't look.

I want you to guess too. That was the year that people were driving into the lakes, right? I remember how poorly the launch went. I got to remember the year. There's a joke in so. This is a WWDC announcement. Yeah. It was a dub-dub announcement.

I'm pretty sure. In Silicon Valley the show, they're doing like a control group, and they're like, oh, this is bad. And he goes, how bad? Apple Maps bad? Sick. That is the bar. One more mouse thing to talk about.

I'll make it quick. I won't. We'll be right back. This week on version history, our chat show about the best and worst and most important products in the history of technology. We're talking about a gadget that was meant to be used on phone lines and was eventually used by the military

and then finally changed the music business forever. That's right, of course, I mean the vocoder. The thing that let us all play our voices like an instrument and change the way that we think about our voices. We have a really fun guest, we have a really fun story to tell. All of that is on version history, on YouTube, and wherever you get podcasts. This week on Net Worth and Chill, it's my birthday, and I'm turning 32, so I'm sharing 32 life lessons I've learned that have actually changed my.

perspective. These aren't the picture perfect Instagram infographic versions. These are the real, hard, uncomfortable truths about money, career, relationships, and everything in between. I'll explain why choosing a rest day is non-negotiable or your body will choose it for you, why you should never take advice from anyone you don't want to be, and why nobody is actually looking at you, so you should just go for it. Plus, I'm breaking down why you should always negotiate your salary, why individualism is making you broke, and yes, why you should try eating a popsicle in the hour after a bad day. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. What's it like to talk to a digital twin of a relative who died before you were born?

This week on Solutions with Henry Blodgett, I talked to writer and artist Amy Kurzweil about just that. She helped her father, famed inventor and futurist Ray Kurzweil, build a chatbot based on her grandfather. We discuss how increasingly lifelike digital. Representations of people will change human relationships, especially how we grieve, and how AI is forcing us to reckon with what consciousness even means. Follow solutions with Henry Blodgett to hear our conversation. All right, welcome back to Andrew's Mouse Corner again. I kind of wanted both of these the same week, but then I kind of thought this one was never coming in, and then it came in after we did the Ponage Sim 3 last. You got to order one for next week now, so you keep it going.

That will never happen. You just order a Cyborg Rat 7. If you order the Cyborg Rat 7, I'll do a review on the podcast next one. Okay, noted. I will smash that thing, buddy. This is the Logitech Pro X2 Superstrike. Not a great name. But this is kind of like the most hype mouse in the scene right now for a couple of reasons.

One, Logiteg G Pro has been kind of like the de facto tried and true gaming mouse for years at this point. I think there you could look at like Valorant or CounterStraight stats of how many people use a specific mouse and I think the GPro is top of the list every single time. But so this is the exact same form factor, but Logitech finally decided to do something kind of cool because they've been kind of boring for a while. This mouse on its, the exterior, it's just everything you kind of expect. It's not too flashy. It's nothing like really bad. It's nothing really good. It's just a good form factor. two buttons, symmetrical, it's everything you would want. But this one is doing something a little different. This actually has no switches, not mechanical or options.

There are no switches. This is fully haptic. What? Similar to like-Hawley-Effect? No, it's not Hull-Effect. It's haptic. Those are optical switches. It's like your MacBook trackpad, how it is essentially a fake click.

And the reason I want to bring it on to this is because I can get reactions from all of you, because the easiest way to test what this feels like is I will hand this to you. Okay. And I want you to click the buttons. You can even do them in the microphone. Click the buttons right now. What do they feel like?

Mush. Like broken, right? They do move. They do move. But it feels like I'm not actuating. Sure. Now the switch on the bottom, flip that on,

and now start clicking. The sound is not fantastic, but... It sounds not great, but there is a... Yeah. There's a pretty convincing. Yeah. I'll let David try this now. This is off.

Would you say that you just want to click? You just want to click? Subscribe. Yeah, that feels mushy. It feels broken, right? Yeah, it feels broken. Now flip it on, yeah. Yeah.

This is amazing audio. It's great for all the listeners. I mean, we're getting... Oh, yeah, okay. So it goes from feeling like broken to like there's something there. There's still a lot of... I agree with you. I'm not like full...

Well, so that's one thing. That's higher than I would like. That's something that now we can do with this mouse is we can change a couple different things. We can change actuation force. Oh. We can change essentially like the clickiness of it and you can change what it's calling rapid trigger, which is essentially was really popular on keyboards a couple years ago, stuff like snap tap where not only it got worked in in certain things. Like it could do things that programs would make it think was possibly cheating because essentially what it's doing is if you have an action. length going down until the button's actuated, essentially what you could do is the lift off

to reset that could be very, very small. You can make it really small. So a way this can be really beneficial is if you're in a game where let's say you have a gun that's semi-automatic, so each click is one shot. If you can, if that gun is really strong, but the, like, weakness of it is it semi-automatic? But now you can make your actuation really small and your reset activation really short as well. You could just and it feels like an automatic gun. That would hurt my finger. That's pretty sick that you can get some. And so right now

I have the right, the left click as a five in your haptics. Five out of five. Five out of five and the right is on one. So if you click these now, it's not a big difference, but there are five levels of activation in

per button. buttons can be different as well. It's just this is kind of a cool thing in the mouse world. This is brand new. This is within a month. I don't know if you want to try left versus right. Like I said, this isn't like the craziest thing, but like the ability to have this in a

mouse is such a smaller version of where you can put this in versus a keyboard where you have full PCBs and individual switches and everything. So I thought this was kind of cool. I don't have much to say about it. How much is it? $180. There is one other cool thing, which is super niche, which is a lot of people when they're doing something called bunny hopping in first person shooters, they actually change their jump button from the space bar to the wheel so that you can just bunny hopping is when you jump and you hit the jump like the second you hit the ground, which carries momentum in a lot of games, which lets you move faster. So when people do it on the wheel, it makes it so you're always hitting the jump as you land because you're not just pressing space one time.

You're scrolling through it, which is like 10 jumps at a time, right? just scroll. You can just scroll to be your jump. So that's how people will make sure that their jump is always landing at the perfect point. This has a bunny hop mode. So like it makes it really sensitive.

What? I know I wasn't bad at FPS. I just don't have it. Yeah, you just weren't bunny hopping correctly. It has a thing so you can't accidentally scroll to scroll wheel when you're clicking buttons, which can happen sometimes because if you jump when you're trying to fire, you completely screw up recoil and everything.

But yeah, there's not much to do this. I will say, since this is a totally new technology, in a thing that you press thousands of times in a life cycle very quickly, I would probably wait till like people are using this for a while. We have haptic

touch track pads like you mentioned. So there's a motor in there and then there's the sort of attachment to the moving piece. Theoretically, that's similar tech to the track pad. Like that should last a long time. Think about how often you click

on your trackpad versus how often you might click in like one game of counterfeit. Dude, that's fair. Yeah. That's a lot of this. Yeah. Or Dota.

Dota is literally all movement is based on clicking. It's probably 500 to a thousand clicks, like a game. Probably more. It might be more where like you do that on this track pad. Dota's like an hour long game. And to move, you have to be like, that, that, that, that, that, that. Interesting.

My computer is going crazy with the special right now. But yeah. I want to do a land party one day and actually play Dota and Valerie and all that stuff. I don't know how. I have such dog shit at Valerin now, but. I don't know how anyone gets into Doe. It's like the most complicated. Because I don't know.

Like you guys say these games, I know nothing about them. I'll play with you one day. We'll play. Let's play. Let's play Valorant. Let's play a let's play. Let's play. Let's play.

Studio stream. Yeah, I'm Guardian 5, which is the second lowest tier. And I have 4,800 hours. Well, Marquez just bought his rat mouse. You bought the mouse? No, I really want to, though. If I had the rack seven, I'd be better at Dota. I bet you that mouse, how much does that mouse weigh?

This is 60 grams? It can weigh as much as you want. Yeah, it's got weight. It's customizable. It's, I remember the days of adding weights where now everyone is like, I need to shave grams off of my mouse.

If this thing is over 35 grams, I ain't touching it. It could weigh up to 157 grams. That's like MS. Having a mouse with progressive overload is crazy. It's like weight training. It's modular, baby. So the AI overview,

which is almost definitely wrong, but it says that one game of Dota can be between 5,000 to 10,000 clicks. That seems insane. To be fair, this is something where, like, gaming really loves to do the, and we've seen this with frame rates and graphics cards and everything, is like, you need this to be better,

but it's like the top point 5% might find like a huge difference in this. I do think this will be more interesting than like snap tap because counterstrafing is something that is really hard to do. But in games we're just like a semi-automatic. might need to fire faster, you can do that so easily on a mouse like this. I need to go home and actually try it. But now I have two mice to try and no time to try them. So I'm just going to start playing games at work.

Yeah, it's James Bond, no time to try. Can I also make a quick announcement? Sure. Streetlight Manifesto, this band. All right, trivia. I've been waiting. Their album still didn't come out. Okay.

That's the announcement? there's okay they announced the show in June but in December they said that there wouldn't be another show until the album comes out which was last June when the album was supposed to come out

so so is the Tesla Rosa going to come out for it? Siri 2.0 or Streetlight Manifesto first? Ooh that's a good question probably at the same time someone was joking

on the street light subreddit that the reason it hasn't come out was because their music is going to be in GTA 6's like the radio station. So they're just delaying it alongside GTA 6. And I just had to tell you guys that for my like two fans out there that care about this. I know there's at least two though because Ellis told me that at South by Southwest somebody said that her husband cared about street light.

She was like she was like my husband's a huge fan of the podcast like I'm so sorry. Like I've never seen an episode. I don't really know anything about it. But I do know that someone on the podcast is. is like a fan of this really small band I'm really, really into. And I was like, it's Streetlight Manifesto and David, isn't it? She was like, yeah. So, thank you.

Now we can do trivia. Can I tell you guys a funny A.OVERview thing that happened to me a little bit ago? Yeah. I was trying to Google the English translation. I was trying to see if there was an English translation of this book that's like a collection of folklore that I really wanted to read. And so I searched English and then the name of the book. And it's like a collection.

of these stories and AI overview mixed up the ISBN, which is like the, so the book registration number with the number of stories in it. So it said, the Mabanagi-on is a collection of one-one-two-one-two-nine-255-0-8-0-1-3-8-0-1-3-0-1-5-4 medieval Welsh prose tales. I don't know what that number is, but I guarantee you. there is not that much of anything in anywhere. That's almost as long as the Simmeralian. No, there's way more.

I had a huge fight with... AI Overview. Well, it was like Google Lens search and then the AI like trying to... I was trying to find a keycap that was on the MEC keyboard subreddit. And I said, what is this? And it like kept bringing me.

It's like, oh, it's this and this model from this artist and it's on this website. I'm like, I can't find it on the website. Are you sure? Oh, just kidding. It was actually this one for so long. And then I kept going like, it just kept saying it's definitely from this. I said, what picture?

Show me. Link, just send me a link. Only give me the link. Don't say anything else. And I just never got it. And then I just replied on the subreddit. And in like five minutes he answered what it was from. And I was like, I hate it.

Shireking. Talking to humans is better than talking to a computer. Did it just send you this picture over and over again? A key, a key, a key on a baseball cap. Key cap. Key cap. Damn, that's a fire hat. How?

Well, you should buy that. I should definitely buy this. How many Wikipedia pages are there called Apple TV? And I'm looking for Delta. You can go over. Delta Airlines. Do you know why it's called Delta Airlines? Because it changes what place you're in.

Yeah, that's, I made that up. That's not true. I thought you're going to say. No, it almost is definitely because of. Price is right. Steve Delta. I was going to say Delta wings, but jetliners don't use Delta wings. Delta Christ.

I don't. I think it's actually just. changing where you are. It's just changing where he was actually on the deltitarian diet and just came back from it. He was eating only triangles. Allegedly, it is named after the Mississippi Delta. Guys, how many Wikipedia pages, whoever is it a river? It's the river.

It's a mouth of the river. I said six. Six is incorrect. Okay. I said seven. That is also incorrect. I said seven. That is third incorrect.

But Marquez was closest. There are three. Oh. There is kind of a trick question. There is the page for the Apple TV hardware device, the Apple TV streaming service, and the Apple TV app, which you can get on other. Because these are dedicated pages. There would be more than one for the hardware device. There are 2026, 24.

But there's not separate pages. 4K. There's just one page that details all of them. No, these are three separate Wikipedia pages. Well, no, those are. I'm talking about the hardware. Oh, fair. Yes, no.

Three. I'll take the point, though. Yeah. Apple TV Wikipedia. My guys needs the point, so I'll give it to them. Not a single TV made by Apple. I'm now going to hand it off to Adam for a quick update on that score. Hannah to Montana.

Mark has with 19. I got a point. Andrew with 19. David, way in the lead. 23. Jesus. Yeah. Next question.

What year? Did Apple release Apple Maps? What year? Yeah, closest without being too high? Yep. Jesus. Yeah. I think it's this.

But let me. think. So dove-dub. I don't know. Probably it was farther. Without going too high? Indeed. Without going too high.

Dang. I'll try it. And flip them and read. What do you guys got? Oh, Jesus. Oh, wow. I'm just going to say all of you are wrong, but tell me what your answers are. I wrote 2017.

Nope. I wrote 2014. Nope. 2010. No. But Andrew gets the point. Because I didn't go over, baby. Let's go.

It was 2012. Oh. That's my first point. Maybe in 2026. No. I went on a blazing lead to start, and I have not had anything. Essentially the New Jersey Devils. We're going to have to blow it out of the water and then just die.

Yeah. Sacramento City Kings. That's because I grew up there. I went to a lot of games. Kobe, no, Kobe wasn't. Sorry, he was on them. Page out. Oh, that's Bam.

Bam? No, it was, no, the old guys. Yeah, you got this. When the Kings were good. Uh-huh. Hit it. Mikey was not. Diddy?

Are you a Bibby? Baby? I have a, I had a bobblehead of Bibby. Of Mike Fibbibbib. Yeah, the baby bobblehead? Baby Bobblehead. Kevin Durant. No.

No. Degia Stuyakovich. Hey Jostiakovich. Doug Christie. Doug Christie. Oh. Okay. Brad.

Like Bibby. Brad. Lander. Brad. Brad. No. Brad. Brad.

Miller. I don't know. My grandpa was really into Kings basketball, so we went to a lot of games, actually. I was waiting for you to explain the film in basketball terms, and you never did. Oh, yeah. Oh, the film. Oh, yeah. Somebody posted this phone.

So, well, okay. Real quick. I got to give you guys. Okay, I got to tell you about this. I'll explain. Sorry. It's not about street light though It's about film

Okay, so Kodak You know Kodak Yeah, I saw it I know Kodak They went out a bit They went they went bankrupt a long time ago I believe you

Yeah, they went bankrupt Was basically was basically like Was like IBM They were like one of the biggest companies In the world for quite a long time Then they went bankrupt because they were stupid And then There's nobody shoots film anymore

That's not true I do Anyway, they had to split into two separate companies as part of the bankruptcy and became Kodak and Kodak Alaris. Kodak Eastman and Kodak Alaris. Okay. The way that the deal worked was that Kodak Eastman would produce the film and they would sell the film to Kodak Alaris, which would then sell the film to consumers. They'd package it all to consumers. Really strange bankruptcy.

I don't get that. Yeah, I don't really get it. Hey, we don't have any money. So let's just be the same company, but two companies are the same thing. Yeah, I don't know. There's details and there's business stuff. Tax reasons. Tax reasons.

I don't know. Anyway, fairly recently, Kodak Eastman, and I'm not sure why this started happening, became able to sell film itself again. So now Kodak Alara still exists who they are still selling film to. But they are now, they have new packaging and new names for, like, a lot of the film that they're selling. So there's, like, Ultramax and, like, there's Portra and all the stuff. Portra is the Kodak Eastman like name for the film

Alaris name for the film but the Kodak Eastman version is now called like Kota color or something like that. Okay. So anyway, over the last like six months they've been re-releasing all these films but with like different packaging

and different names generally cheaper because they don't have to do like they don't have to sell it. Eastman doesn't have to, no, Alaris doesn't have to make a margin. Anyway, on Instagram they posted

we just released this new film and someone said can you explain this to me in basketball terms okay David so I think my basketball thing would be like if Mike Bibby and Kobe right should I not is that bad to say no it's basketball player will be Bryant okay my baby and Kobe Bryant were like best friend we're like the same person and then they split into two people. This is a bad analogy. I can't make the basketball. I don't know enough about basketball to make the basketball. I think that's a hard thing to do. I can do a tech analogy. People can't

split in half. If you can make a tech analogy, I will try to make it a basketball. Okay, okay. Good. This is like telephones. I like this. I like this. Some company's splitting too. Basketball. But no. Okay. Okay. Let me do a tech analogy. Yeah. Okay. Imagine

if Android had to spin off from Google, right? And, which we've or Chrome let's say Chrome okay and Google still made Chrome but they couldn't distribute it and Chrome the company was the one that like actually packaged it and distributed it to people and then later on uh for some reason Google was once again able to make Chrome and because Chromium is open sourced because they still have the like they still have the rights to do it yeah they released it under Google Chrome as opposed to just Chrome

You know? I got a version. Okay, basketball. It would be like if Kevin Durant played for a Seattle team called the Supersonics, and then at some point they went away and they split. Kevin Durant went to another team, and the Supersonics went away and became Oklahoma City, Thunder. And then, later, the NBA was like, we should make an expansion team in Seattle. And Kevin Durant went back to the Seattle team.

Oh. I like it. Okay. We should clip that and comment on that guy's comment. Let's see if that works. That might not be ever. It might happen. It might not.

All that we've learned a lot on the pod. That's some human trivia. That's some of the explanations. Yeah. Hopefully some of that is accurate. Hey, thanks for watching. See you in April. Wait, really?

It's been a really long March. I know. Oh, it's been this. April 1st? Wait, is it going to be April 1st when we record? The next time we record will be April. Officially. April 1.

So thanks for tuning in. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks for hype. Bing. I think we finally killed that feature. Either way, catch you guys next week. Peace. Wayform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Riffin. We're part of Vox Media Podcast Network and our Charter Music was created by Vain Still. Bingo. Awesome quick one. In hindsight, if I was a teacher and I gave the assignment, this would probably be like

a lesson in like just how big the solar system is. But I was a very literal, I was like, I have to make everything the right size.