Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Is Humane's AI Pin the Future or a Flop?

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

This week, Marques and David jump right into a bunch of news from the last week or two starting with their thoughts on the Humane AI pin. After that, they discuss iMessage coming to the Nothing Phone 2 (kind of) and a bunch of gadget news ranging from the new Steam Deck OLED to some EV announcements. We wrap up the podcast with answers to our Andrew-centric trivia questions. Speaking of which, Andrew is a dad now! Note: The news of RCS coming to iMessage got announced after we finished recording so make sure to check in next week for a full deep dive and discussion on that. Links: Humane AI Pin Google Pays Apple iMessage on Nothing Phone 2 Dave2D Steam Deck OLED video Lucid news Xiaomi Car Polestar 4 news Nasa & Chill Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We interrupt your holiday listening pleasure to bring you an important bulletin. You could be doing exactly what you're doing right now, but with bottomless bevies on a beach in paradise. With Sunwing's Big Boxing Week savings, you can choose between literally hundreds of all-inclusive vacation packages that offer big value for low prices. Take it from us, we've been here since last year's sale. Hey, get away from my fries! Oh yeah, book with your local travel advisor or at... Hamburglar, why are you calling? Rubble, rubble. McDonald's has a new biggest burger called Big Arch, made with two 100% Canadian beef patties, a new delicious sauce, and all the McDonald's

flavors you love, and wait, you want me to help you get it? Rubble! Come on. Compared to beef burgers on McDonald's current menu at participating restaurants in Canada. Yo, what's up, Waveform? Marques here. Back with another pre-podcast intro, which I think you already know where this is going. So I'm actually out here in a hotel room, this time coming at you from the 21st floor in Las Vegas for a certain Formula One race

that's maybe happening as you're tuning into this for the first time, which is super cool. We might be working on something around this too. Wink, wink. Either way, this podcast episode you're about to watch was recorded again on a Wednesday, which means that it was right before we started to fly out on Thursday. And as we're in the air, Apple drops the news, kind of a surprising news, that they will be supporting RCS on the iPhone in 2024, next year. We didn't expect this. And shocker, I think we actually talked about it on the podcast how we don't expect this to happen anytime soon. But now you know, this was recorded a little bit before that news dropped. But it is really interesting. This doesn't necessarily solve

the blue bubble versus green bubble thing that we've talked about so much. Apple will still clearly prioritize iMessage alongside RCS. Maybe they'll change the color of green bubbles. I don't know. But what this does mean is you can expect when this finally launches next year, texting between an iPhone and an Android phone to be better. It will work over the internet with RCS. It will have typing indicators. It should have read receipts. It should have all this new stuff. And I think most importantly, photos and videos won't look like they're from a VHS, it will actually be high resolution files, instead of blurry, grainy, pixelated messes. So all that is coming. We didn't know that as we recorded this episode. So what you're about to watch is us talking without

that information, but figured I'd chime in before the episode. That's about it for now. Okay. See you on the other side. Peace. Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. 15% of my diet is Cholula.

And I'm David. And that was the soundbar, actually. Andrew's not actually here. Yeah. I mean, yes, his diet is mostly Cholula, but he's out teaching a little one the ways of the Cholula. I don't know. He's a dad.

He's a dad now. So he's got to go do dad things, and that has rightfully meant that he's not here today. Totally fine. So now we've done like the whole trifecta where like you and Andrew hosted one without me and then I think me and Andrew hosted one and had trivia questions about you while you weren't here and now

it's me and you so we probably should have Andrew related trivia questions which would be hilarious. Yeah. Anyway, lots to talk about this week. We've got a whole assortment of just sort of random, but all tech-related things that I have thoughts on. We all have thoughts on. Yeah. We should start by mentioning that this is not the first episode of the week. Right, yeah.

Yeah. We had a bonus episode, Cyan Engine Mod and the Death of the Android ROM. Long form bonus podcast episode. Went live on Wednesday. If you thought that it was Friday on Wednesday, it was not. It was Wednesday, but now it's Friday, which is a benefit to you. So, go watch that. You have it already. Very fun episode.

It's great. The nostalgia was so strong with that one. I enjoyed it a lot. Yeah. But first. Yeah. Oh, boy. We got... Audio listeners, David is reaching under the table. Oh, boy. We got...

Audio listeners, David is reaching under the table. Oh, my God, this is so heavy. And picking up a briefcase. The LG Stand By Me Go briefcase monitor that we've been talking about for months. It's finally here. Jesus. This is a gigantic display. I mean, it's not a huge computer monitor but just to have

in your briefcase uh yeah this is a tough one for audio listeners but i think i have a description yeah it's sort of like a briefcase which inside contains a jumbo sized like google tablet home thing it's 27 inch but it's made out of the same plastic that airplane cabins are made out of yes now it's vertical now it's vertical you can watch tiktoks free form freestanding you can play chess it's a touchscreen yeah does it have a battery in it it does it's currently on battery power yeah it's on battery power right now it lasts about three hours how much does it weigh 30 pounds it's really that's 75 of the scooter it's very heavy 75 of andrew's diet is chalula but 70 of my strength goes to trying to hold this thing i think that scooter reference would go over a lot of people's heads unless they've seen the short, but we also have a briefcase scooter.

Oh, yeah. At the studio. The Honda Moto Compacto. Yeah. So briefcase display. Briefcase tech. Briefcase scooter. We're off to a hot start.

Yeah, we're off to a hot start. This is just a thing that we figured we'd show you guys that we have. Yeah. When did everyone get together and decide that briefcase was the next form factor for technology? I don't know what happened. I'm all for it, dude. I don't know. I don't know about you. What other things would and decide that briefcase was the next form factor for technology? I don't know what happened. I'm all for it, dude. I don't know. I don't know about you.

What other things would work in a briefcase? By the way, there's enough room for like a computer in there. In there behind the display. But it's just display, stand, and speaker. And battery. Big battery, probably. Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. So, glad we got that in. So that exists. So that exists. So that exists. Anyway, we have real news coming up. Another thing that exists is this happened right after we recorded the last episode, this Humane AI pin. Yes. It's finally been unveiled and described and priced.

We know what it is now. So let's talk about it. I have some thoughts. I'm not really sure how many of my thoughts will be nice, but we'll see. We'll see how far we get. So, okay, we didn't know how much it would be. We didn't know what it would be,

but we knew Humane AI was going to do some AI-related product, and we'd seen these teasers, this Paris Fashion Week teaser of them wearing this pin, this projector that projects something on your hand. The TED Talk. What exactly is it? Is it the post-smartphone gadget for the first time? What do we think this thing is?

So now it comes out. It's a Vimeo. It's a 15-minute Vimeo video, whatever it is. So it's the two founders explaining what the product is. I want to put aside the lack of on-camera presence because not everybody has it. It's just-camera presence because not everybody has it. It's just, you know, not everybody has it. A lot of other companies have really cringy presentations,

but they gave us a $699 pin with a $24 a month subscription service, which gets you a couple things, T-Mobile service, title subscription, a couple other things. Also $799 for certain colors sorry that's right oh 699 for the base pin but if you want the white one or if you want a certain combo of i guess it's like silver or chrome and chrome and black which by the way chrome on technology is just a terrible idea yeah Yeah, but that's an extra $100.

Jeez. It's got a 13-megapixel camera that faces forward. It's got a battery inside. It's got a microphone inside. And it basically has a large enough speaker and enough storage and processing power to run a local AI model, primarily powered by ChatGPT 4. model primarily powered by chat gpt 4 and uh that's basically what you are mostly interacting with when using slash wearing this pin yeah and then there's a projector on the front where if you hold your hand up this is going to be weird again for audio listeners but when you hold your hand up right in front of your chest it will project that ui onto your hand and then you can interact

with the projection so by moving your hand closing and opening your hand you're selecting things and scrolling through things that's the basic premise yeah it's an ai assistant that you wear and interact with and pay constantly for yeah yeah so the yeah. So the way that you actually charge it is that you wear it. They call it the perpetual power system, which stands for a magnet that has a battery in it. Yeah, you get kind of clever with this. Yeah.

It's kind of the same way how you see earbuds are like, oh, this has a 40-hour battery life. But obviously you can't wear them for 40 hours straight. It's actually that the battery in the earbuds is four hours. And then when you put them back in the case, you can charge them back up and use them for four more hours and put them back. But you also, with this AI pin, I guess you don't want to take it off. So you have some way of charging it while you're wearing it. Yeah, that's how it goes on your clothing in the first place is that it uses a magnet between your clothes.

Yeah. But that magnet also wirelessly charges the device. Cool. So that's clever. Yeah, clever. It's basically like a AI system that is routing you to other AIs. That's sort of how they're describing it. You interact with it with natural language and with like tapping and stuff.

it um you interact with it with natural language and with like tapping and stuff and then depending on your query it will route you to the right ai platform to do various things uh in their presentation they got a lot of things incorrect because of the hallucinate hallucination problem with ais yeah so they both uh held out a small handful of almonds and asked it how much protein was in the almonds and it uses the camera because it can use the camera to like look at things around you can use the speakers to listen to things around you and it's supposed to be able to analyze all this information it looked at like five almonds that was in this guy's hand and it said there were 15 grams of protein in it and then it added it to this like i don't know this daily protein log that you can access via a web app there's this

weird there's a web portal there's a web portal interface that you can use to access all your human information and for some reason they want you to track all of the food that you eat by like taking photos of it and then it's supposed to analyze that and then put that information into this web portal uh anyway a small handful of almonds does not have 15 grams of protein that would be sick if it did though i would love that it has like two grams of protein yeah um and a lot of people are going online being like that is completely incorrect um and i think the the gpt was basically accessing the data of how much like a cup of almonds would have something like that yeah uh the other thing is he asked it when the

next total solar eclipse was going to be and where the best place to watch it would be and he said it would be in april and the best place to watch it was australia a lot of people came out being like no you actually can't even see it in aust. You can only see it in North America. So, yeah, because these large language models are sort of just predicting the next most likely word, you're not always going to get accurate information. And if you are using a device that has no screen and that you're just supposed to be using ambiently, like getting incorrect information like all the time is probably not the best not great yeah yeah i guess now that i've seen the announcement i was we were kind of wondering what it would be but now that we've seen it i feel like i have two main thoughts on it humane humane humane humane thoughts two main humane thoughts one Two main humane thoughts. One is, you know, I see the videos, but I haven't tried it.

And this gadget has the potential to be a really big or really small gap between how I think it's going to go and how it can actually go. Totally. Like, I am watching these videos. I'm like, this does not seem great. Like, I don't believe that a projector onto my hand is going to be great UI. Is it going to track my hand around when I move or do I have to have my hand in the perfect place?

Is it going to sag on my clothes because the weight of the pin and the computer and the battery is too much? Probably. The material, do I have to put my hand in a certain spot? When I'm outside and it's sunny, is that going to even show up on my hand at all? If my skin color on my hand is different from normal,

is that going to work? If I don't have a hand, how's accessibility for that all those questions are real yeah and then the actual interacting with the the ai thing like i want it to be cool but i just i have my doubts so this could turn out to be just as bad as i think or it could totally blow my mind yeah my other thought is if you zoom out a lot, I think the idea of an AI assistant that you kind of just ambiently have around you is a cool idea. And I wonder if we're going to feel like this is something that's ahead of its time because the tech just isn't good enough to accomplish that yet. the tech just isn't good enough to accomplish that yet. But if you think about it, you already sort of have an AI assistant around you and you're like your Apple watch or Siri and your headphones.

I guess I just mean the natural way of interacting with an invisible assistant. Like we have the Ray, the Ray band smart glasses, which have a language model in them. Yeah. And there's a camera on the front of them. Yeah. They kind of have this similar potential where it's like, I'm just walking around

looking like a normal person, and to an invisible person, I will just ask my assistant how to fix the broken sink in front of me. And it will tell me how to fix it. Because it's a smart, invisible assistant that nobody else has access to, but it's personalized to me.

That's sick if it works. But the tech is so young that right now it kind of doesn't really work and i feel like this pin is the same way where like the idea i love the idea of like having a plate of food in front of me and being like log my macros and it just does it yeah i've wanted to log macros even in an app manually for years yeah it sucks my fitness balance it's horrible yeah every if your food doesn't have a barcode like good luck yeah so the idea of just having it intelligently look at the food and figure out is cool but like the tech is not that good yet like how how was the steak actually cooked or were the fries deep fried or is it just like potato wedges like what isn't what

is in front of you it's like really hard since there's no way to like interact with the display or anything you're not actually sure what information it's logging and then you look at your like macros later in the day and it you just have no way to authenticate that information yeah yeah i think that google glass was like 15 years too early and probably more yeah probably more probably 20 to 25 years too early and if uh you know that seems like it would be a better use case than this humane thing i think that they wanted to avoid smart glasses because you kind of look like a glass hole uh quote unquote if you're wearing smart glasses unless they're sunglasses which people are used to seeing now you're going to be a pinhole yeah oh yeah or uh um or if you have a prescription and you just have

smart glasses but with a prescription then you wouldn't be able to notice yeah the pin is a kind of a weird thing and i think that they're trying to make it like it's sort of fashion but it's not necessarily making it look like it's ai um their angle internally could just be like, not everybody can wear glasses all the time, but anyone can wear a pin all the time. Yeah. The weird thing, too, is they showed the pin attached to a handbag. They were like, you can wear it anywhere. You could put it on your purse.

You could put it on this. Then that projector thing won't work. Exactly. Okay. I didn't even realize that. That's a great point. Yeah. If it's on your handbag, the projector won't work, and then you'd have to, you'd have to bring it up to your mouth if you wanted to talk

to it. It's supposed to have these beam forming speakers that make it like sound like only you can hear it. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I haven't, I want to hear it when we get it or if we get it, obviously, but there are other examples of that that work. Yeah, totally. Like the Bose neck speaker.

Yeah, those are really good. Incredible. Yeah, there are little slices of technology that kind of work already for some of the applications of this. And that's one of them. Like some of the audio tricks that it can play on you can work really well. That's cool. Even occasionally just asking the GPT model probably basic questions. There's probably one or two use cases where you're just walking around some random park

and you get to a landmark and it's a statue in front of you and you just tap the thing and you're like, what is that? And it tells you and you're like, holy, that's awesome. This tech works really well. There will probably be little slices of that that make you believe that this is the future.

But today, for 700 bucks and 24 bucks a month, that's a tough sell. I gotta say, it feels like a tough sell. I do wanna try it. I did buy did buy one oh i probably shouldn't say that so they don't like treat my order special or something i don't know it might not matter i don't think it'll matter i ordered one i don't even know when it's gonna come out you can pre-order it now but they don't have like a release date that's a really good point you know maybe it'll be the roadster situation again so you guys think that the demo was real because you're saying like the peanut in the hand thing like because to me when i watch those demos i assume it's all

like made in post yeah it should have been it's clearly real because they've messed it up it's a good it's a fair question i think if you uh i would guess that they're actually real i think a lot of them they take the pride in like the we came from Apple thing and Apple always does real demos and Google always does real demos. And I think certain companies like proud of always doing real demos. So yeah, they could have done a prerecorded thing,

but I think in order to feel like you're not lying to the public and the tech actually works, I want to believe that those are real demos. I mean, if they weren't real demos, they probably would have gotten the information correct. Well, I don't know. I assume that when everything was getting, like, when it was going

around on Twitter that certain things were wrong, or excuse me, I assumed it was like a copy editor that missed a fact or something. I don't think so. That sounds like a GPT mistake to me. It does, but that assumes that the demo was live and accurate which i never assumed yeah for like the pre-recorded stuff but i'm not sure that's what i'm asking

the funny thing is they issued this uh this note when everyone was talking about how everything was incorrect about it and they were like uh that was a bug and we're working on fixing it it's like you can't fix the way transformer models work it's's not a bug. Watch me. It's ChatGPT. You can't just fix ChatGPT. Interesting. So there's been a lot of hype around this company for a very long time, specifically because of their two people

that worked at Apple, worked on the original iPhone interface. Dream team. Yeah, kind of this dream team scenario type thing. But it'll be fun to watch the reviews of those go live when they eventually do. But until then, we don't really know much. And they only showed demos to like a couple of journalists. And none of those journalists were very impressed with it.

Interesting. Well, they weren't even allowed to use it. Did they ever? Yeah, that's the main question. They were allowed to see it being used. That's tough. Because you know how Apple Vision Pro like... It's a red flag. Yeah, I was the main question. They're allowed to see it being used. That's tough. Because you know how Apple Vision Pro- It's a red flag.

Yeah, I was going to say. Apple Vision Pro, we also aren't able to shoot any videos of our demos. But we did try the thing. And we got to use it. Instead of watching someone use the thing, you know? So that's like a separate layer of like, okay, this is probably real. So if no one's gotten to use it yet, yeah, that just makes me really curious. The fact that this pre-orders but no one could actually use it yet

is just a huge red flag to me. Yeah, they did get a lot of money out of me for not using it. Assuming the demo from the keynote, if you want to call it that, like was real. One thing that it far exceeded my expectations in is something called keystoning with a projector,

which is where when you're projecting onto a surface that's not perpendicular with the plane of the lens, different parts of the image, both focus and size, because the different parts of the image have to travel different distances to the lens. And you can see the keystoning chasing his hand moving and changing angle and stuff. It's a lot of processing power.

It's a ton of processing power. And there's a lot of processing power it's a ton of processing power because um and there's there's a lot of really interesting grad student papers on the most efficient way to do this and stuff like that but just like watching it sort of chase the plane around from just a projector point of view i'm like pretty cool pretty good assuming it's real assuming that's not something a computer yeah yeah yeah we did have one projector that we did in a dope tech video a couple years ago at this point but it it did it really well and live and it also made it a touch surface so it was responding to what it saw in the reflection yeah the the nebula series of projectors do this pretty well and and so does

the samsung the samsung the freestyle that's the full name of it but those all sort of like you move and then they go like oh i see that you changed one sec yep yeah but this is like because the projector doesn't have to be yeah i think those might be those might have a built-in delay on purpose where if like someone walks in front of the wall you don't want it to immediately mess with the video so it's like like, let me just check. Are you sure you're going to, you're going to keep, it's going to stay. Okay. Let me change it. Yeah. So that could be really cool. Yeah. I'm, I'm fascinated by this. Yeah. I will say that, um, in a lot of the people, like they, in a lot of the people that were wearing it, it looked like it was sagging their clothes quite a bit.

I think that might be the most underrated light.'s not super light yeah especially the battery it's also metal right yeah it's gotta be heavy yeah anyway yeah so anyway that'll be interesting um we can't really comment on it much until we actually get a thing in i don't even know when we will but we'll make sure to we'll keep you guys posted keep it posted figure out anything yeah um something else that's also not coming out for a minute to the public but that we did get to try well technically it comes out today oh yeah okay as of recording or as of as of uh right now as of publishing okay yeah so nothing bringing iMessage kinda to the phone too only specifically for some reason okay so this is a this is a whole thing it's very interesting it's like this nothing company is willing to try some stuff you know yeah they're

willing to try some stuff so i kind of set the table with this video and i made the whole video about it if you want to watch it it's on youtube it's on x um it's if you're a company trying to break out and and make a new smartphone and gather market share and grow sales around the world, you can kind of follow a pretty reasonably predictable approach and start to do that. Maybe you differentiate with price or specs or design. Carl Pei has done it before with OnePlus, right? Right, man. But there's something about the U.S. where you kind of have to do certain things to break out. Like you need to be in carrier stores

to pass 2% market share. You just can't get people, like there's not enough enthusiasts to buy your phone online. You need a carrier deal. And what you also need is to compete against the iPhone and actually get people to switch from the iPhone, which is a staggeringly

dominant phone in the US, like shockingly so. And I talk about this in the video, like everybody in every other country is like, this is so dumb. Like you guys, why do you even use iMessage? Like nobody even uses what bothers with the default texting app where I come from. And that's totally fair. Uh, so I always have to explain. Yeah. In the US people just open the texting app and text each other yeah and on on the iPhone that's iMessage and there's enough of a process built in where Apple realizes that they can lock people into the iPhone with it and most people that use iMessage or just the Apple messages app on their iPhone don't realize that it's like that iMessage is not the app the app is Apple messages iMessage is a protocol that gets used between iPhones,

but it has SMS fallback. So people are not used to realizing, oh, this is like an internet-based chat service, whereas regular SMS is just regular SMS. And so they get really thrown off. Yeah, all they really realize is, this works good when my friend has an iPhone, and this works way worse

when my friend doesn't have an iPhone. Yeah. So that pressure is real. So if you're a new startup company trying to sell a phone in the U.S., you're going to be up against people who are like, I don't really want a phone that can't work with iMessage. Yeah. So nothing's genius idea is to literally just try to offer iMessage for Android. And the way they did this was they collaborated with Sunbird. There's a couple of companies we've talked about

that are kind of doing this in some way, but Sunbird is one of them that is offering a iMessage pass-through service that will give you some of the features of iMessage on an Android phone so that if your iPhone friend texts you, it's going to show up as a blue bubble to them. If you all send messages with pictures back and forth, it'll be high resolution, typing indicators, reactions, et cetera. And all of that seems kind of cool,

but you should also know that you are signing in with your Apple ID You should also know that you are signing in with your Apple ID and just giving it to a third party. Yeah. Like, I don't know how else to explain it. Like, you're signing in. Yeah. You're typing your username and password to your Apple ID into a Mac mini in the middle of nowhere. Well, into an app that is not Apple.

And that's totally cool. You can do that. But that just means that they're going to get your information. And they've actually broken down what they're going to do to try to mitigate all of the possible security concerns. They don't want to ever store your login information.

They don't want to ever store your messages. Everything should be encrypted. But I just, you kind of, you have to know that that's what's happening. Right. There's that risk.

Right. And so that's, it's out there now. They're going to, it's, I guess guess today start offering that um for nothing phone to users i don't know that it's going to work meaning i don't know that it's going to get people off to to go ah i was gonna get an iphone but now i'll get this one did you watch the Nothing video that they put out about it? I did. Yeah. So they said that most of their Nothing customers own like ear sticks or ear ones or ear twos or whatever.

And that they, most of those people own iPhones. Yeah. So they were like, why are we selling these cool headphones, but why aren't we selling more phones so they did a bunch of market research and it's not hard to deduce that iMessage is like one of the main reasons the United States why people won't switch off the iPhone so they thought what if we could just put iMessage on an Android phone and they say in the video we made an app they didn't make this app Sunbird made the app it's they put a skin it's a skin version of Sunbird. It's a nothing skin. Yeah. Yeah. So it worked for me. It was a little slow, a little janky sometimes. It's not as smooth.

There are animations that don't look amazing. Like when I get a new image, I have to download it to view the full res version. But it's working and it shows up as a blue bubble to the iPhone. So there's that. It's working and it shows up as a blue bubble to the iPhone. So there's that. But yeah, it is like a, it's a weird thing that only this company would probably try right now. Yeah, it's kind of crazy that they're willing to do this.

I know that nothing doesn't have a lot to lose. Sunbird kind of has a lot to lose. But also Sunbird still hasn't come out of like, of like super closed down beta, whereas Beeper is like pretty much out there for everybody i've talked to people from sunbird and beeper and they've said that they're not they feel like this is the perfect time to do it because with apple and google being put under so much regulatory antitrust scrutiny they feel like if apple just like turned a switch that was like you and made it not possible to do this then they would get like in a lot of trouble.

So I still don't really feel like it's going to last a really long time. I was trying to figure that out. I don't, based on my understanding of how this works, I don't know that Apple could decide. I mean, maybe I don't know exactly how it works, but could they actually shut this down? They could probably figure out a way to not. Really?

Yeah, to make it not work. Like if you're, I don't know, if the Mac that you're associating your iMessage account with is in a different country to the one that you're in currently, then they'd have to run it through VPN. Yeah. I don't know. They could do a lot of like, we're not actually shutting it down,

but we're making it way harder kind of thing. So nothing told me that their Mac minis are going to be in whatever region you're in. So there are a bunch of different Mac mini server farms, whatever, in different locations. Okay. So it'll probably be in your region. And as far as I can tell, it's just routing through your computer the way any other iMessage would. Yeah.

So it would be up to Apple to detect somehow that this is one of the specific Mac minis or VMs or whatever that they don't want to use. It's just, yeah, it seems like harder than expected to shut it down. I think they're just going to do nothing, nothing, literally nothing. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't want to make a pun today, but just came out. Sorry. Yeah. But yeah, I don't think they're going to do anything. Yeah, probably true. Probably true. I don't know. There's, this is spurring another conversation all over social media. And I think this conversation gets spurred like twice a year,

at least just about, uh, I messages like hold and like, should we just have an open protocol that everyone should use? Or a hot take I was seeing on Twitter a lot yesterday was people were saying Apple should just be forced to put iMessage on Android because that way like they're not necessarily being forced to open up their proprietary protocol. Forced to put iMessage on Android. Yeah. But they're allowing other people to use their service, which is arguably a better service than most than a lot of other

messaging protocols. Yeah. And if Apple was just forced to put iMessage on android then they're still getting all the traffic and they've almost put iMessage on android many times there were like a bunch of leaked documents where they were gonna do it and they were like you know i feel like this is the only reason people are staying on the iphone yeah like like phil schiller and like all these upper manager dudes yeah they definitely have an android iMessage app just waiting oh yeah on ice it's ready whenever it has to go it's ready i i think that they'd probably All these upper manager dudes. They definitely have an Android iMessage app just waiting. Just on ice for whenever it has to go out. It's ready.

I think that they'd probably have to figure out another monetization strategy for it, though, if they were to add that many more users. Because they would literally, like, the amount of users they'd add if it got added to Android, not just because of the US, but because of the entire world, would be so high that their server costs would just explode. they'd have to figure out a a better monetization strategy

for the couch cushions for some change over there yeah yeah yeah so yeah i found the comments on the video really funny which is every time this happens there's tons of comments about in the country i live in here is what it's like it's like we know i've been told this by you guys a bazillion like we know seven out of ten comments are like in my country most people don't use the iphone because everyone uses whatsapp so we're all just competing on hardware and the iphone's not that competitive with hardware i found one really interesting uh they said in japan a lot of people use iphones but they all still use WhatsApp on the iPhone. That's amazing. Which is like.

Golden, golden. Wow. Wow. Perfect scenario. Japan reigns supreme once again. 2050 over there, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that happened this week. It's out.

If you have a Nothing Phone 2, you know, you've heard all of our red flag warnings, so we can't say we didn't warn you, but you can try it. It's kind of a bummer they're only putting this on Nothing Phone 2. And a lot of people were upset that bought Nothing Phone 1s because a lot of people didn't feel like it was worth the upgrade to the Phone 2 from the Phone 1. Yeah, why wouldn't it work with the Phone 1? Not that it can't. I think it's just that they want people to buy Phone 2s.

They probably aren't moving enough Phone 2 units. It's like how Apple released the M3 because they sold no M2 devices. I was going to say, do we know anything technical about how this app works? No, it's Sunbird. It works on all of my Android phones that I've used it on. Yeah, but how does Sunbird work? Sunbird works by...

Because Beeper was like an open source protocol, remember? What is Sunbird doing? Sunbird is just a closed source protocol. So it's just their protocol. Version of Beeper, yeah. Interesting. So there's no technical, as far as we know, technical reason why you can't run on a phone one i think you could run sunbird today in beta on a phone one yeah yeah i mean i i i didn't get official access to sunbird

i got the apk whoa and then i just sideloaded it onto my phone david david don't admit that that's not illegal sneaky sideload load. Wow. That's sort of a CyanogenMod throwback. Anyway. Yeah. Well, it's out there. Yeah. So, if you got a phone too, try it out. If you have any other phone, try it out. Grab an APK.

Let us know how it works. You could get the APK for this. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, the nothing one. Yeah. I have used both Beeper and Sunbird and I think that Sunbird looks a little bit better, but it has less functionality than Beep Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, the nothing one, yeah. I have used both Beeper and Sunbird, and I think that Sunbird looks a little bit better, but it has less functionality than Beeper right now. But does that even matter if it's nothing skinned?

Yeah, it looks fine. It looks like a nothing app. Yeah. It's called Nothing Chats. Oh, the benefit of it, though, is that it'll detect whether or not you're texting another Android user or an iMessage user. And if you're texting an Android user, it goes through RCS. If you text an iPhone user, it goes through iMessage.

So that's a benefit. It doesn't just fall back to SMS. Everything is encrypted. Yeah. Wow. Everything's encrypted. Wouldn't that be the perfect 2050 world we could live in? Yeah.

Anyway, let's kick it to trivia and then uh take a little ad break all right so as we mentioned earlier this is please be about andrew the andrew round let's go so let's go question one d brand our good friends at d brand have been in business for quite some time but one year before their launch taylor swift released a phone skin as merch along with her third studio album no way speak now really what year did speak now come out 1979 what year did speak now come out again this is one year before d brand launch what year did speak now come out and it was this is one year before Dbrand launched. What year did Speak Now come out? And it was the third studio album? And it was the year before

Dbrand. Jeez. Alright. I don't know. I'm gonna have to make an educated guess on that. Answers at the end of the episode. Yeah. Let's get to break. We'll be right back. BetMGM, a sports book worth a celly and an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hamburglar, why are you calling? Rubble, rubble! McDonald's has a new biggest burger called Big Arch

made with two 100% Canadian beef patties, a new delicious sauce and all the McDonald's flavors you love and wait, you want me to help you get it? Rubble! Come on. Compared to beef burgers Welcome back. We got a few new stories for you here today. The first one being that we finally found out how much google pays apple to be the default search engine on uh safari i have a hot take about this oh do you wanna do you wanna disclose uh first tell us

how much you're spending okay so it's always been known that google pays apple a lot of money to be the default search engine on the iphone yeah um and that's sort of a way that a lot of browsers make money now is sort of like a ransom thing. They're like, hey, we could make Bing the default search engine and Google goes,

no! You know, all these things. So, during this antitrust trial, it was Google versus Epic because we already did Apple versus Epic

and now we're doing Google versus Epic, I guess. It came out that they pay Apple 36% we already did epic apple versus epic and now we're doing google versus epic i guess it came out that they pay apple 36 of search ad revenue uh to use safari or to be the default search engine on safari which is a lot so what you're saying is apple app google makes all of their search engine revenue and then they take 36 of what they make and give it specifically on safari of what they make on safari yeah and give it to apple to remain the default search engine for when you just type

a phrase into the search box yeah that's a lot yeah that's a lot it's also kind of a situation where it's like it's only a lot because they are the default and so that 36 means is is a lot of money because they are the default if they weren't the default that 36 would not really be that much yeah yeah ready for my hot take i'm ready it's all wasted money do not pay them a dime there's no way google switches it to or apple switches it to bing yeah to bing apple would switch to bing I wonder about this a lot. I've seen that hot take on the internet quite a bit. I don't know if that many regular

users would be able to tell the difference or be pissed off that they're using Bing. I think if one day you typed a phrase into the search box in Safari and it pulled up a Bing search result, the entire internet would lose its collective minds. Even regular people?

Yeah. Not just nerds? I think it would spill over pretty fast. That is definitely a hot take because I disagree hard. Really? I think that the same way everyone knows that Siri kind of sucks, the same way everyone knows Bing kind of sucks. But do regular people know that Siri kind of sucks?

I think so. The thing is with search, the more people they get making searches the better the product gets so if you make bing the search engine for like a month it'll eventually be fine that's you would think that's true but it didn't work with siri it's not 100 that way though it's not like a learning model where it just gets way better automatically. Okay, let's say theoretically, hypothetically, Google stops paying today. Do you think there's a path where Apple goes, okay, we need to... Because also, if you switch it to Bing, that assumes Microsoft is now paying. Yeah.

What if Microsoft's like, I'm not paying? Yeah, because Apple needs to go to somebody and be like yeah give us 36 and how much do you want to pay yeah so microsoft currently not paying google decides we're not going to pay anymore who are they going to switch it to if they don't have a default willing to pay we're going to switch it to bing and just give it to them for free that would be if nobody was willing to pay though yeah yeah because i mean there's this whole antitrust conversation going on with google google's being sued by the federal government about whether or not they should even legally be allowed to pay off people like apple to be the default um i honestly i feel like if you couldn't do that

apple would just implement a thing when you set up Safari for the first time that would say, what search engine do you want to use? And I agree with you that probably 98% of people would pick Google search because like, why would you just pick? Why wouldn't Apple make their own? I mean, they could.

They probably have it ready. Just like they have iMessage on their ready. They've been speculated for a while. They almost definitely do. But if they make 23% of, or 36% of all Google revenue, it's probably in their best interest to just use that as like a money generator.

Yeah. On one hand, you like the money. You're Apple. You should make a lot of money. But on the other hand, they have been known to like take big leaps to like forego some of that default. Like switching from Intel to Apple Silicon. Itgo some of that default. Switching from Intel to

Apple Silicon, they kind of took that leap not that Intel was paying them or whatever but they took that leap to go from the easy default to making their own thing and that made it better over time and they have not made the leap to serving their own search engine ever.

I think there's probably a pretty good reason for that which is it's probably harder than they think and you need a lot of volume a lot of business a lot of things to work for a search engine to be good one thing too is that apple is like one of the only companies that does not make nearly as much money selling your data like apple makes most of its revenue on hardware and services um but almost every single other tech company sells data to make most of its money. And so a search engine for them is not that useful, right? Because the search engine is mostly tracking your habits, it's mostly tracking what websites you're going to. And if

Apple is keeping that super private on device, because that's their whole thing, that's their whole shtick, then like, what's the value of that to them? If they could just like, point a gun at your head and say, give us 30, 36% of all revenue, or we literally like, pull the value of that to them if they could just like point a gun at your head and say give us 30 36 of all revenue or we literally like pull the bottom out from under you i feel like that's a much better revenue generator from them long term yeah i think their only argument would be we can just make it a better product like we can we can deliver the search engine that the world wants which doesn't sell all of your information but learns from all of your searches and can give you better features that work for you. That's true. They would have to really, really, really assume that that would be a selling point for people. Yeah. Yeah. They just have to look at how many

people use AltaVista today and assume that they can get that amount of people to switch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it'll be interesting to see what happens if this trial goes through and or if the federal government wins this case. I don't think they will following the case. They've been they've made a lot of bad, bad cases. But if they did, it would be really interesting to see what would happen. their own search engine because it's just a huge overhead for like not a lot of benefit especially when google is so far ahead of everybody else that the quality of google search kind of directly affects the way that people see safari right because if the the number one thing you probably do on your browser is search something then google is kind of like lifting up all the other browsers in a way dang yeah have you guys used used Yahoo search in the past few years?

No, it is literally Microsoft being a backend with a Google clone skin on top. I didn't know. I think the only thing I've used Yahoo search for is finance. It's funny. Like if you go into Yahoo and you like search a sports team, it'll present it in like the exact same format. It looks exactly like, if you go into Yahoo and you, like, search a sports team, it'll present it in, like, the exact same format. It literally looks exactly like Google.

I know. They even have the 3x3 grid for all their different Yahoo apps. They literally changed the font. Isn't that just the Google search bar? So, look, you know, maybe if Yahoo was willing to do a little bit of a discount, Apple could kind of do a seamless little. Wow. Wow. Look, there's a little browser for all of your yaps.

Oh, my God. Is that what they call it? That's what I just made that up. Yeah, what is that? All sites? This is literally the way that Gmail looks. I'm sorry. Yeah, you're yites.

That's literally the way that Google search... Wow, that's insane. I didn't even know that. That's wild. Damn. Okay. Good for Yahoo. Good for Yahoo.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's always been like a black box. So it's interesting to know that information now. There was a funny little blurb that was like when the Google engineer like let out that information, his manager who was sitting like behind him visibly cringed. Because apparently he was not supposed to say that. Oh, no. Yeah. But he kind of got forced to so and now we all know 26.3 billion dollars now the waveform pod knows

we all know you've been spending a lot of money yeah cool yeah all right all right um next topic we didn't really mention last week but there was an open ai dev day that i watched uh last week yeah their first developer day i tried bro i really tried to watch it yeah it was so i mean i watched it for the first half hour um they tried to do a live like live demos and stuff and it felt a lot like a microsoft keynote and it kind of was a microsoft keynote because satya came out and you know i don't know open ai is kind of a Microsoft company now to be honest uh they're under the wing yeah yeah so they announced a few new products they announced this thing called GPT-4 Turbo whoa yeah um which makes the context window for tokens much longer

so you can import like an entire research paper instead of just you know writing a few words say tell it to me like this based on this information. So yeah, you can drop in all this stuff. It moves the up-to-date information to April 2023 because before it was really behind. And they made a note that they never want to be able to fall that far back again with the training data. It is also way cheaper than regular GPG4 was. So it's a lot easier for people to use at

scale. And then they're also offering GPT-3.5 for people for way, way, way, way cheaper. So I guess small businesses can start to use this without it bankrupting them. And then the biggest news probably was that they are letting you make your own individualized chatbot with something called GPTs. So instead of having just chat GPT, where you say, you are my math teacher, do XYZ, you can make a GPT called math teacher AI. And this kind of bankrupts like a lot of startup companies that we're just using GPT for as a backend, but we're spinning it up as a wrapper. Because now you can just make this yourself for free. And you can

feed it, you can say, you train it by typing into GPT-4 what you want it to be. And then it just becomes this persona, effectively. Yeah. That is pretty sick. That also definitely ruined a lot of pitch decks yes a lot of pitch

decks a lot of that decks um they're also going to have a store where you can download and sell gpts i guess if you like work on making them specifically interesting that's what i'm most excited for the store people are going to make some awesome stuff yeah guarantee it's going to be fun to like look at that um how long until we have one for the waveform pod someone's gonna probably already is one yeah we should look it up waveform gpt they have some they introduced something called copyright shield which is interesting where basically like if you're using uh chat gpt or like if you have a gpt or using your business and you get sued for copyright infringement, OpenAI will pay your legal bills. Which is a whole, like, very sketchy. It feels very similar to when Elon was like,

if you get fired over saying free speech things on X, we will pay your legal bills, even though he didn't actually mean that. And they still have 100 million weekly active users, which is crazy. Because before threads, they were the fastest application million weekly active users, which is crazy because before threads, they were the fastest application to a hundred million users. Yeah. Um,

but they have that many weekly now. I forgot threads got that in like five, five days. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, a hundred million weekly.

That was kind of the, the whole conference there. Are we all, are we all weekly active users of GPT? I use it every week. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say so. Am I the only one saying no? Mark, has you used it every week? Every week? Yeah.

What do you do when you get lonely? I look in the mirror and weep by myself. I actually, I have asked it for kind of advice on, both advice and for just information on things that it's extremely hard to find on the Internet and that there's only a few resources for on the Internet. And it gives you like a much more concise, much better put together list of things you should do about certain topics. I don't know.

I think that it might become more useful for me as this like store comes out but as it is right now I just don't find it that useful I understand that I'm only using it more because I decided to pay for a month of the premium model also for work purposes you were like I want to try this to like be on top of it I just want to try it and see how it works out

I don't know if I'm going to keep paying for it because the free model is already pretty good but yeah how much is GPT-4 Turbo? Turbo is for businesses I don't know if I'm going to keep paying for it because the free model is already pretty good. But yeah. How much is GPT-4 Turbo? Turbo is for businesses, I believe. I'm a business. Oh, true. I'm not a businessman.

I'm a business. I think it's one cent. Let me handle my business. I think it's like one cent per thousand tokens. Is that? Yeah. Isn't it crazy that one company makes chat GPT, LinkedIn, and

World of Warcraft wait one of these things is not like the other it's all Microsoft now Microsoft technically owns Activision Blizzard which makes World of Warcraft they own LinkedIn they don't own OpenAI but they like

they are heavy investors to the point where you might as well consider them one and the same. Satya's at the event. Yeah. So Turbo is one cent per thousand tokens. A thousand tokens. And it used to be three cents per thousand with regular GPT-4. Is a thousand... I don't know what a thousand tokens gets me, though.

A token is a word. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's not bad. A yeah so a generated word okay yeah i'm interested yeah i want the turbo shocker yeah uh okay yeah that's super cool i'm probably gonna continue yeah i use it weekly mostly for like some of the brainstorming stuff that we talked about but also like you said some of the super niche extremely instructive specific things that you can only find if you just have it summarize a bunch of stuff for you on the internet so yeah yeah we should talk about the other thing listed here though okay steam deck oled yeah okay steam deck oled also got announced uh there's a dave 2d video about it there's also new information so if

you're interested steam deck oled is a real thing it It is a new HDR OLED display with smaller bezels than the original Steam Deck. It is brighter now. It'll do 1,000 nits, 600 nits for SDR content, 1,000 nits for HDR. It is now 90 hertz. That's my biggest. I was going to say, I think that's one of the biggest deals. As far as what regular people will notice, it's absolutely the brightness. But what will I appreciate?

90 hertz. Yes, please. Bigger, faster SSD. I mean, there's big hardware spec improvements on the inside. Three to 12-hour battery life coded versus the previous two to eight-hour battery life. It's a little lighter, 30 grams lighter, and it's a quieter fan,

and there's a little bit more of a transparent design. $549 for the ultimate airplane seat-back gaming i think it's great yeah i am i'm a fan of a great display so this is pretty much exactly what nintendo did with the switch oled yeah they just updated they made it a bigger brighter better screen uh the battery life is a little bit better and uh they just started selling it can't go wrong yeah. Yeah. So I think that was a good idea. Right before the holidays too. Yeah. Really getting people's stocking stuffers going

if you're really generous. Yeah. They fixed a lot of the problems the original one had, which was great. The fan had this like crazy coil wine issue that people were having and dbrand had to like issue a bunch of new cases for everybody

because it was like stopping the intake and making the coil, making the fan like wine a bunch of new cases for everybody because it was like stopping the intake and making the coil making the fan like whine a ton um so that apparently still works with it because the the body of the hardware is exactly the same they were just able to shrink the bezels yeah so the screen's a lot better uh and they shrunk the node size of the apu in it which is what increases the battery life and you get a couple of extra frames of performance so it's a whole spec bump yeah it's technically a faster ssd it's technically the exact same um cpu and gpu but they they did a node shrink interesting so it's not the same it's not the same but it's more efficient yeah yeah it's more efficient and slightly faster and runs cooler better product yeah better pizza more no sorry what what pop

a steam um i don't think there are more nodes right it's literally just like shrunken it does a die shrink to four nanometer i believe that's cool yeah that's way cool yeah so i think they're holding back the bigger chip for the next version yeah they said that they didn't have any um plans right now to do a more powerful one they should say yeah so that you buy this one yeah and then in six months they're like just kidding we have plans which is what nintendo will definitely be doing as well yeah that's fair while we're on uh gaming stuff there's also new analog special edition like pockets getting released oh yeah special colors that are getting released this friday the 17th so today today when you're listening to this which means it's probably already sold out so sorry for you guys sorry for telling you sorry for telling you these ones come

in the classic matte colored designs uh analog seems to be just shipping special editions of the pocket to keep sales going they did a transparent one They did a glow-in-the-dark one. And now they're, well, translucent. Translucent, glow-in-the-dark, and now they're doing these matte colorways. They're doing blue, green, indigo, pink, red, silver, yellow, and spice orange. And they all look sick.

I don't know why orange is the only one with a modifier but it's specifically spice nice got it oh i really hope i don't get this wrong i think it's because spice orange was an original color that you could get the gamecube in in japan like like the orange gamecube is called spice orange i really hope I'm right about that. Your nostalgia tricks don't work on me, Analog. I know nothing about these old consoles. I am immune. You were right, Ellis. It was called Spice Orange. Let's go!

Got it. Awesome. New trivia question. No, please don't. We need one Andrew-related. We should do an Andrew-related second trivia question. Oh boy, do we have one for you. Let's get it! Let's go. Second trivia question. Oh boy, do we have one for you? Let's get it. Let's go. Second trivia question. So out of everyone in the studio,

Andrew probably watches the most. Twitch. Twitch. Thank you. I was going to say, I was going to say Steam for a second because my head's in Steam. Yeah.

He watches the most Twitch. Okay. What is Andrew's twitch username wow yeah you don't follow andrew on twitch um i probably do but i don't watch twitch wait so you don't follow me on twitch no i don't actually maybe i do i probably did when i found out that you had one yeah i wrote down a username that i no longer know if it's for Twitch or something else. We'll just find out later. I could either be right

and feel really good about it or I could be wrong and we don't get any points. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Dyson OnTrack. Dyson OnTrack headphones offer best-in-class noise cancellation and an enhanced sound range, making them perfect for enjoying music and podcasts. Get up to 55 hours of listening with active noise cancelling enabled, soft microfiber cushions engineered for comfort,

and a range of colors and finishes. Dyson OnTrack. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage. Accessories sold separately. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite.

Anxious about where the economy is headed? You're not alone. If you ask nine experts, you're likely to get 10 different answers. So unless you're a fortune teller and it's perfectly okay that you're not, nobody can say for certain. So that makes it tricky to future proof your business in times like these. That's why over 38,000 businesses are already setting their future plans with NetSuite by Oracle. This top rated cloud ERP brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, and more

onto one unified platform, letting you streamline operations and cut down on costs. With NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting tools, you're not just managing your business, you're anticipating its next move. You can close the books in days, not weeks, and keep your focus forward on what's coming next. Plus, NetSuite has compiled insights about how AI and machine learning may affect your business

and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, welcome back to our third and final section of the Waveform podcast, which is just me saying that we've got a bunch of EV stuff to talk about

and we've put it all in the same section because it just makes sense that way it feels good to put them all in one big ev section this makes sense um i wanted to just start off with what do you think about this uh this jumper cable that lucid announced i think it's dope i think it's sick yeah i'm kind of shocked that nobody's done it yet i know others have supported reverse charging so what basically lucid did is they announced a a cable that plugs directly into the lucid and into any other ev that can charge them at a rate of up to 9.6 kilowatts so you can go oh you have a dead battery in your tesla model 3 whatever yeah i'll pull up in my

lucid plug one end into my car plug the other end into the into the tesla and give you 40 miles an hour of charge. Yeah. That's pretty dope. That's sick. Yeah. That's a genuinely awesome feature. Usually when your car dies of battery, you're only like a couple of miles from a charger anyway. Yeah.

That's how fast my fast charging in my garage charges. Wow. I think 10 kilowatts or like 9 or 11, something like that, kilowatts. So that's right up there with like 30 to 40 miles an hour of charge. Now my question is how quickly does it drain the lucid lucid? Because you're going to lose a lot to heat. You're going to lose a lot to heat. You'll probably lose like 50, 60 miles an hour of battery.

But if you're pulling up and helping someone charge, you probably got a bunch of battery. Yeah. Ready to go. Right. I'm sure there's probably also some like limits to like how low of a battery it'll work with and some other stuff like that. But you're right. Most people, when they are that desperate for charge yeah they need like two miles yeah totally so i love that my

sister has a model 3 and she uh her battery died like a mile from her house and she had to call a tow truck to tow her to her house you can like see your house down the block yeah and it cost her like five hundred dollars yeah and it was at two in the morning they dump it in the garage or the driveway or yeah into the driveway i have to like push it up to the charger yeah see yep if she only had a friend with a lucid which and a jumper cable probably less likely but at two in the morning i mean my question is can you use you probably can't use this on any other car right because i think that... I think that they said that the Lucids have to be able to push the power out.

Yeah. And so they're issuing a software update that allows it to do that. Right. As far as my understanding of this, the Lucids have the ability to send power out, and this OTA update will enable the bi-directional charging feature,

and it'll probably have a handshake with this cable, this jumper cable thing. It would be nice if it just worked on every car, every EV. That would be wild. Well, that would be crazy because you could just start siphoning battery from people's cars and parking lots. That's true. That's a good point. Maybe there needs to be a software handshake.

But, yeah, F-150 Lightning has a giant battery and bi-directional it's bi-directional but you need a special box in your garage right for your house to accept that charge so it's like doing a handshake with the truck and then your house and then your battery to your truck is not the battery to your house another great feature but i think the car to car thing is just like super convenient yeah definitely super into that but speaking of cars okay evie xiaomi has announced that they're making a car well they didn't announce it actually they applied for uh the right to sell it which in china basically reveals your entire product so now we see the entire product and it is the xiaomi su7 it's an electric sedan and not gonna lie it kind of looks good i think it looks really good kind of looks good i i was not i wasn't sure what to expect i feel like with xiaomi they kind of just make

everything so it could look like anything yeah but when you look at these articles and these pictures anything yeah but when you look at these articles and these pictures it kind of has vibes of like seven different oems yeah in a good way yeah i feel like it has like sort of mclaren headlights a little bit of like genesis to the front and the face i see some porsche in the front hood there's a little model three a little model three a little bit of taikan yeah i kind of like the the the wheels with the spokes actually reminds me of the Rivian wheels, believe it or not. Wow. You get to the back. It's got more Taycan.

It's got a light bar across the back. Cool. It's a solid-looking machine. Yeah. There's a Founders Edition badge on the side. There's an active rear wing. That's awesome. It's a good-looking little car they've made here.

I think they said there's a rear-wheel drive or a dual-motor version. There's three specs, three trims. Yeah, that's the best part about this car. Is it? Yes. I guess it's right in line with Xiaomi. There will be an SU7, an SU7 Pro, and SU7 Max. Are they all the same size? i think it's just power trim what

does it mean to be a professional driver if you're not actually professionally driving i guess that's just up to or a max driver what happens what does it mean to be a max driver has there never been a car named pro or max before i guess not doubt it i don't want to say there hasn't been. And why is there no Pro Max? Great point. I don't know. I think it's just literally like one of them is a rear wheel drive, one is all wheel drive, and then, you know, top spec trim. My question is how expensive this is going to be because it looks really nice. And generally, Xiaomi stuff is like very, very affordable.

Yeah. So we don't know the price. But it is going to start mass manufacturing in December. Yes. In a month. I kind of want to do an educated guess based on what we know. So we'll probably never see this on this side of the Atlantic. It's a Xiaomi car.

So I'm just going to have to translate to what i think the u.s dollars equivalent would be but like a car like this which is a full-size electric sedan i assume with moderately decent performance i'm trying to come up with a comp somewhere in the like ionic five range maybe a little higher end with that active spoiler a little sportier maybe ionic what was the ionic six is the one that we had here yeah kind of feels like a forty thousand dollar ionic six type thing that would be amazing wouldn't that be cool for 40 grand that'd be amazing it looks really good total guess yeah uh it also runs an os that can also be run on smartphones so that's hilarious this is similar to the Polestar phone

that they're going to make that is made specifically to go with their cars. What? Did you miss that week? Yeah. The Polestar phone? Polestar phone? Yeah.

No way. I'm looking this up right now. Yeah, they're going to be making a phone that is with... God, what is the brand? It's a Chinese OEM that's basically making it for them, but it's made to go with their car. Wow. And the OS is like work directly together.

I mean, that makes perfect sense. Like in the same way that if Apple made a car, it would probably work best with an iPhone. Right. There's probably tons of integration stuff you can do from maps to like. Yeah. Yeah. Everything would work best so yeah i'm guessing this is like an android base and then they're gonna have their phones also run the same android base and then when you hook your xiaomi phone up to the xiaomi

car it probably has like special integrations and just works really seamlessly with it which makes a lot of sense it's exactly how apple would do it that is really funny yeah meizu seamlessly with it, which makes a lot of sense. It's exactly how Apple would do it. That is really funny. Yeah, Meizu. For Polestar. And Meizu is owned by Geely, which is like a huge Chinese auto. Which also owns

Polestar. So Geely owns Volvo, too? Yeah. Polestar's a Volvo. Isn't it crazy that one company makes Volvo Eggo waffles and these hands? They own Eggo own ego no i just made that up that was not oh that was a joke okay that one was made up but it sounds a lot like the one that wasn't made up you never know yeah uh that is really funny okay what company does own minecraft and skype though

microsoft microsoft yeah minecraft and Skype. Also World of Warcraft. And LinkedIn. LinkedIn. World of Warcraft. And GitHub. And ChatGPT. And GitHub. But not ChatGPT, but sort of.

Almost. Sorry, sorry. Get back to the... More or less. Yes. Yeah, so much for that Sony car. I don't think that was ever going to come out. I mean, we did see a physical representation of it at CES.

Was that two CESs ago? I think it might have been last year. I think it might have been both of the last two years. Yeah, they make a lot of concept cars. Yeah, the Afila or whatever it was called. Yeah, the Afila. And then everyone went, nah, we don't really want this. But, you know, it looked kind of decent.

This one looks better. Good for Xiaomi. Yeah. Cool design. Seems like it's actually going to ship soon, so we'll keep an eye on that. It's crazy that a company that started as an Android ROM became this. It's crazy. Makes everything and cars.

They're versatile. Yeah. Insane. We'll see how it goes. I mean, with a car, there's so many parts that you inevitably need to be made and sourced from other suppliers. I'm sure. I say I'm sure, but I don't know.

I'm pretty sure Xiaomi's not making the windshield wiper actuators and, like, every single little piece of the car. The tires will come from someone else, whatever. Could be. But. You never know. You know, they'll probably make a bunch of pieces of this car. They'll make the displays probably.

They'll probably make the camera systems for all the sensors all around the car. The LiDAR stuff. Cool. Yeah. All right. Well, the other thing I wanted to shout out was the Polestar 4, which will not have a back window at all.

Yeah. And instead, it'll just have a camera on the back and it'll project the rear view camera feed on the rear view mirror, which is a screen. Yep. Is that legal?

It's legal. Yeah. There are other cars that have done it. Yeah, there's other cars. There's lots of trucks that do this already. It just kind of inconvenient it's kind of weird it's it's like this is the really really sloped back windshield for this polestar 4 so if you see any photos or videos of the polestar 4 if you did have that opening there it would be a pretty small rear view mirror window uh so theoretically this could give you better visibility yes there's 120

degree field of view which is way more than you normally get yeah yeah but it also feels like they didn't have to do that evergreen yeah but it looks cool actually yeah it looks pretty cool there's a verge article on someone from the verge that went and played with it for a while and they were really really positive on it they were saying they really really liked it i feel better about that then yeah and that nighttime visibility was really good that you don't get like glare that you'd normally get like because it can reduce like highlights so you can actually see instead of being blinded what throws me off about it is like if you look at some of the pictures in the back seat like if you sit back there, it's just like an enclosed cabin. The more I think about this, this might be a good thing.

But that's weird. What if you're on a road trip? You can't just look back. You're stuck. That's true. You can't look back. But have you ever been driving at night and the person behind you has the high beams on and it's just blasting the inside of your car?

I hate that. That will never happen again. That'll never happen. That's true. That's a great point. Because it's just blasting the inside of your car i hate that will never happen it'll never happen that's true that's a great point it's closed yeah but wouldn't that be worse because it would just be blowing out your camera no the camera can can solve for that yeah can it solve it can solve for high beams being fired yeah it can like reduce highlights by a ton or it has a mode where you can switch it to just be a regular mirror but it but then you just see the inside of your own car yeah but it's better than seeing high beams yeah yeah i'm not sold you should get one here and try it yeah i guess so we should get one i read a book in middle school called the last book

in the universe it was a one of those young adult post-apocalyptic novels and a big part of the book is that cars in the post-apocalypse do not have windows and only have cameras. Really? And so seeing this, I'm just like, all right. Wow. Okay. There's a couple of cars that we've tested that have the option where you can flip

between a real mirror and a camera feed. Yeah, and that actually always works. So maybe I shouldn't be- It works pretty well. I tend to stick with the regular mirror, but I do appreciate a good camera feed. So I guess if I can solve for crazy headlights and stuff, I don't see why it wouldn't be a decent idea. Yeah. Yeah.

I'd love to try it. I'm going to try it. Yeah. All right. All right. Quick hits. Yeah, we got a couple of quick hits here. So NASA is launching a NASA plus streaming service. But do not fear.

It is free. I don't think I can name all the planets. And maybe after watching NASA Plus, he will be able to. Yeah, it's a free streaming service. It's going to have documentaries. It's going to have a bunch of just NASA videos. It's going to be awesome. And it's free, which is great.

Much better than paying for another subscription service. This other thing happened where wait sorry what can you watch on nasa plus uh like documentaries about space and stuff i thought it was gonna be like live telescope feeds and stuff they probably have that kind of stuff i think you can watch live rocket launch stream that seems cool too can we fact check this? It says Emmy winning live shows. Okay. Original series. There's also a space out series tagged under NASA and chill, which are 30 minute shows featuring incredible shots of planets and space

stuff, all backed by chill music. I love that. Yeah. I want a NASA and chill later. So this is basically uh like blue planet except for space planet planet planet planet nice space planets yeah okay cool i think it's fun really exciting uh lastly who else can do this what other like organization or company

can launch like a live streaming launch david david what other organization can launch a live streaming subscription? David. What other organization can launch? The ESA. The European Space Agency. Last little hit here is there was some news going around this week. Someone was reading the terms and conditions of buying a Cybertruck and it said

that you could not sell it within a year of purchasing. This one threw me for a loop. Some people were like, oh, it's because it's going to be so bad that people are not going to want to get rid of it, but they can't. Some people said it was because there's going to be a lot of scalpers that are trying to flip them for higher amounts of money.

And people were kind of freaking out about this in general. And then they redacted it. So that's no longer the case the funny thing about the cyber truck is there has been so much hype for it that there will guaranteed be flippers yeah guaranteed like if you have an early vin the thing that flew me through me for a loop is we have the uh the rivian here as the truck that we use for all the work like we do with autofocus videos yeah and we have a cyber truck order so my plan was to get the cyber truck evaluate the two

side by side shoot with it work with both and then decide which one's better and keep it and sell the other one and then this article comes out that's like if you want to sell the cyber truck within a year tesla will sue you for 50 grand or whatever. Yeah. And I was like, oh, well, I guess we have to keep it for a year at least, which sounds terrible, but they took it back. Yeah. I always found it fascinating how car manufacturers fight against scalpers.

I know. And resellers and all that stuff. It's inevitable. Yeah. Lots of F-150 Lightnings get resold for 100K over just absurd markups. Yeah. Hard to get EVs. So this will be one of them.

Isn't there a sports car brand that will not let you sell your car or won't even let you do stuff to your car? Like skin it or whatever? So there are companies that go to various extreme levels of protecting their brand when it comes to not only buying the cars but using the cars ferrari is maybe the most notorious of them all they when you buy a car still kind of act like they own the car my favorite story is uh when joel deadmau5 uh wrapped his ferrari with like the nyan cat on the side of it uh they sent him a cease and desist. And they were like, you can't parade this car around with a Ferrari logo. It's like, I bought it.

It's like, it's my car. Yeah. They're like, well, you can't do it. So it's our car. Send it back. Sell it. Cease and desist. They sent him that legal paperwork.

So he got rid of it and he got a Lamborghini instead and named it the Pericon and did the same rap. So I thought that was great. But like Ferrari will only let you buy cars if you've already bought other certain cars. Ferrari will only let

certain collectors have access to like first dibs on cars. That's crazy. They don't love people flipping cars. And this has trickled down into Porsche,

into even some EV manufacturers. So it's real. Yeah. It's real. The Ford GT story is another famous one. You could not, when you bought the car, you like signed a contract that you couldn't sell it. It's crazy.

I own the thing. I should be able to sell it. So Tesla, you know, explored this idea a little bit, added it, and then took it back. Yeah. Interesting. Crazy. That's it for our quick hits.

With that, let's get into trivia. I have both my answers already written. So I'm just going to cover the other one when I read the first one. Okay. Before we do this trivia question, just want to say, when we were talking about alternative space streaming, orgs should have shouted out ISRO,ian space research organization literally put a lander on the moon this year they did we did not even talk about that they did the chandrayan three mission so anyway yeah sorry about that now back to the trivia

so d brand has been around for quite some time but one year before their launch taylor swift released a phone skin as merch along with her third studio album speak now what year did speak now come out in i'm just taking a guess here but i'm i think this is much. I'm trying to go with an educated guess based on the first time I ever skinned a dbrand phone. Oh. Which I'm going to guess is either the first or second year that dbrand ever existed. And so I think this was like 2013.

Why did you just give me that? Because you already wrote your answer. Oh. So I wrote 2012. Dang it. I wrote 2012. Dang it. I wrote 2011. Speak Now was released in 2010. 2011 was the birth of D-Brand.

So close. Wait, I thought it was when did the album come out? Yes. Yeah, one year before D-Brand. So that's right for D-Brand. Oh, Speak Now came out in 2009? 10. And then D-Brand came 10. Oh, I was right.

Oh my god. I guessed correctly, but I got the question wrong. The slow turn to look at what you wrote is what sent me. So I kind of got the answer right. Kind of, but not. Next question. What is Andrew's twitch handle

i think this is right is it is it or is it his like steam username andy kitten 6782 or is it his twitter username so many. Too many usernames. We should just get one. Like, I don't know, MKBHD or something. Like that social. I will admit that the first time I ever met Andrew, I thought that his last name was Manganellia. Well, he's in my phone as Andrew Manganellia.

Nice. And I have not changed it. Flip him and read. Is it Jolly Roger? I put Andy Manganielli. Oh. Fake fans. What is this?

The correct answer is Andrew Manganielli. Are you kidding me? I do not know where you got Jolly Roger from. No, what is this from? Now this is like a, what is this from? Andrew, what is this from? This is kind of a trick question. Andrew, what is this from now this is like a what is this from andrew what is this from this is kind of a trick question andrew what is this from because i thought it was going to be different from an actual name yeah i know that's why i put it in there thanks if you had no idea you could

just put his name and you would have got it right wow oh my god andrew what is this from well that'll do it for this week's episode back to your regularly scheduled programming which is not to say we don't have more bonus content in the works i'm just saying it's definitely friday today that's all wink wink wink wink yeah sorry to everyone that we uh made think it was friday on wednesday yeah but you know glad that you're listening but it was worth it it was again great episode go watch it go listen to it it's awesome that's it rock roll. Where's that from? We just got a really great comment on this video, and that's a phone-freaking fact that none of us encountered when we were researching this. Really? The earliest phone-freakers were people who either were blind or were supporting blind people, where dialing a phone was very difficult.

And you could dial a phone with just the tones if you recorded them on the subject. But it really took off when someone discovered there was a whistle included in a box of Captain Crunch that played exactly 2,600 hertz. And that was the exact tone to start a long distance call wow on at&t exactly and so that fact was able to spread through like the underground like wildfire and that's what made people really interested wildfire oh my god waveform is produced by adam and lena and ellis rovan we're part of the

vox media podcast network and our intro music is produced by vein so bingo do you do you coordinate like left side iphone apple watch right side Android with pocket and wrist no my my phones are always coordinated like that but my watches are just like I put one on and then I put the other one on gotcha not even I normally put it on the right but whenever I'm playing or playing like playing ultimate or playing golf, I move it to the left. So I have a tan on both wrists. Unfortunately, it's not great. I don't recommend it.