Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Is the Pixel 8 Pro Worth $1000?

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

The Pixel 8 reviews are here! this week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about the Pixel 8 smartphones in detail along with a few interesting topics from X (Twitter). Then they talk about the new Meta Quest 3 before going over some of the AI tools that Adobe launched at its latest Max event. Then we round out the episode with some trivia. Enjoy! Shop products mentioned: Google Pixel 8 - https://geni.us/2LGS325 Google Pixel 8 Pro - https://geni.us/emmE Links: MKBHD Can You Trust Google: https://bit.ly/trustgooglemkbhd MKBHD Pixel 8 Review: https://bit.ly/pixel8review Android Police Article: https://bit.ly/APHDRarticle Snazzy Labs Quest 3 Tweet: https://bit.ly/snazzylabsquest Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https:https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. And I'm Tired. And Tired is here. Oh, hi, Tired. Nice to meet you. Sorry, I just got off a plane. Ah, yeah, that's totally fair.

Well, we've got a lot to talk about, so I hope you're ready for it. And it's kind of a nice, fun grab bag of stuff. We have Pixel 8 8 final thoughts 8 and 8 pro also meta quest 3 is in the house the video is not up yet but we have some thoughts and if you want to we can go over all kinds of thoughts we have on that also 8 video is up the pixel 8 video is up so definitely watch that if you haven't already um and then david has some stuff on the adobe max conference that he went to earlier this week. Is that where you were flying? Yes. Okay. Where was that?

One day. Los Angeles. One day in LA. Yeah. That's a fun one. Yeah. So you're not jet lagged technically. No.

But you're tired. Yeah. Fair. I'm okay. Okay. We're good. I'll make it. It's going to be great.

Stay awake till the end of the episode. I feel better than I anticipated. I'll just say that. That's good. Yeah. Okay. But first, I just want to highlight a fun Twitter poll that I posted a couple days ago where I, sometimes I post Twitter polls and I kind of think that I know how it's going to shake out, but sometimes I'm surprised a little bit.

And this one I was very surprised by. I put it in Slack and I was just trying to see if people would guess before they clicked it what they thought the results would be. So I tweeted, would you take a self-driving taxi slash Uber? No context about like the state of it now versus how much better it might get later. Just like, would you take one? And the results, I want you to just think about this. If you're listening to the podcast right now, what do you think people would say? Would you take a self-driving Uber? Yes or no? 55. Yes. 45. No. I thought that was interesting. Yeah. mostly because there's two ways to think about the answer

to that which is one do you like the idea of a self-driving car which a lot of people were like yeah i really have had too many bad experiences with ubers lots of horror stories about you know can i stop at my house for a second can i yeah i just need to pick up a package or meet my friends somewhere and you're in the back of someone's car like what is going on yeah people just like the idea of that never happening again in a self-driving car solves that um but the other version of the question is given how good the tech is now would you currently ride in a self-driving car or maybe wait till it's actually a little bit better and autonomous vehicles are like fully as good as a human and i think that's another answer for a lot of people i think this could splinter for sure because

there's the self-driving taxis that are going through um san francisco right now which is a smallish metropolitan area you know san francisco is only seven by seven square miles so yeah there's not a lot of space to cover but if you're in like los angeles area where everything's a highway like none of the uh self-driving cars in san francisco are going 70 miles per hour on the highway right that's a different story there's still like in some so many variables though yeah some might say that's easier i would be more afraid to take a self-driving car on the freeway. I would be less afraid. Really?

Well, based on what I've seen about self-driving technologies, the highway, which is just lamed line markers, is typically the easiest thing to do. And then the more variables you add, like slowing down and adding bicyclists and pedestrians and people walking and kids running into the street, which doesn't usually happen on a highway, that's when it gets tricky.

So I feel like I'd be more doesn't usually happen on a highway, that's when it gets tricky. So I feel like I'd be more likely to trust it on a highway. Counterpoint, you'll be fine when it hits a pedestrian. Well, I guess I just don't want to be in a car where anything weird happens. I think also LA highway traffic is basically just letting it roll. So that might be the safest out of everything. And then you don't have some creepy Uber guy

trying to talk to you the entire time. So's a benefit i don't know but i i feel like i agree with you on this feels like who answered this question i'm looking forward to it or i don't trust it right now i answered not trusting it right now right and i think a lot of people answered this thinking do you like the idea of a self-driving car because i think if i ask and this is also you know i'm polling my audience so it's a lot of tech ford people that's going to skewdriving car? Because I think if I ask, and this is also, you know, I'm polling my audience, so it's a lot of tech forward people that's going to skew it as well. But I think if you just polled like a bunch of average people, you get a lot more no's. Okay, so can we go over, did everyone here answer this poll?

Yes. Can we take a really quick poll of the pot, see what everyone answered and why they answered real quick? Yeah, we can get a percentage. So what'd you answer? I answered yes. Um, I remember when I sold my Subaru when I was in california i said i'm not gonna buy another car until they're all self-driving wow which didn't happen because i needed to buy a car but it's

kind of self-driving but not really but either way i've had like this magical image of self-driving cars in my head for a very long time and I like the idea of just sort of being driven around autonomously. Because if I could drive to work and like sleep more or read or something like that, you know, that'd be fun. That'd be dope. Yeah. Do some work. So let's say right now you just landed in, you were going to the Adobe conference and

two taxis or Ubers showed up at the airport, one with a driver, one that's self-driving. Which one would you have gotten in? Same price, same everything? I feel like if they are using it for consumers, it's got to be safe enough that I'm not going to get hurt. Because otherwise, it's just a complete PR nightmare. From what I've heard, they've had the ability to do general safe driving for a while, and NVIDIA has shown off their technology, tesla's shown off their technology and qualcomm

like every single developer conference ever they show off their self-driving technology for the last 10 years but nobody wants to be first because you're first and you kill someone you destroy the entire industry but mostly yourself yeah i think that mentality works for this because especially with self-driving cars they have to be so much safer yeah that they're comfortable putting it on the streets and even though they're safer than human drivers as soon as one thing happens it all gets thrown on the fact that it's self-driving yeah yeah i think it still has like i guess so i answered no because i feel like right now i don't know well no no i can just no i can no no i can loop off of what you're saying though, is like, I think like in general,

in a lot of ways, it's probably safer than most drivers, but I still don't know. And I know it has at least a decade of information it's gathered, but there are just still so many variables. You don't know what's coming on in these like all these different road like scenarios out there like isn't there that one highway in san francisco where the line was painted kind of weird and there were like five or six teslas crashed in the same like couple months and they literally repainted because yeah they repainted this was further back like just to be clear this is much further back but there's just stuff that then happens i don't know enough about where i'm driving if i'm picking up a taxi or an uber i don't think i would feel and especially because

in self-driving cars right now there's a person behind the steering wheel that it can be like whoa whoa you take over i don't got this if it's a taxi or an uber that's just an empty ass seat right there and i'm not pulling i'm not jumping forward and doing it like i don't think i've got the trust on that yet it's crazy that as a society we're like instead of just laying down a few train tracks let's try to recreate we've got a whole nother brain but stronger and better at driving that's a whole nother time we will climb to biology's greatest achievements and surpass them instead of like bus stop men will literally simulate consciousness before going to therapy before literally just building a train yeah okay so you said no yes i said no ella said train as the third option what what did you actually say alice uh i i probably would not. Like if a self-driving car pulled up to this office to take me somewhere in today, right now.

Man. No. I'm out of touch with the. I've been in. Oh, man. I've done it already. Driven it or been out of touch? I've been in.

We did the self-driving Yandex pre-mapped route in Vegas. Oh, right. So I was in the backseat of a 10-minute ride with nobody in the driver's seat. And I would do it again. If you are driving from this office, and if I accidentally doxx us, tell me to stop. But when you're driving from this office to New York City, when you you get on the freeway there's this really tricky where you have to get on a bridge and you're merging into a lane that's sort of coming from your back the one that i've the fast lane also exactly i've almost been hit by that like 20

times what would a self-driving there's no way the car can see backwards around okay line circle so all it has is a yield sign yeah so here's what it the car can see backwards around the line circle. All it has is a yield sign. Yeah, so here's what it does. This is the biggest downside I've seen with these out-in-the-world self-driving cars. The number one problem with human drivers is they're too aggressive and they will often crash. The number one problem with these self-driving cars is they sit at the yield sign and wait for 40 minutes until there's a big enough gap for them to go and they will hold up traffic for a mile behind them because of it yeah and that's a that's annoying from the passenger seat but it's technically safer yeah and that's the

biggest difference i found if you read a lot of the headlines in san francisco it's like it's not that these cars are mowing through intersections or whatever. It's just that people come up to a stop sign with a car too far in an intersection, and then they just freeze and don't do anything. And then they cause traffic to be holed up for the entire day. I care about my image just as much as I care about my physical body. So I don't want to be the guy that everyone's pointing and laughing at why my self-driving taxi can't figure out why there's a basketball in the road and just stops for an hour.

It's more likely, yeah. But no, yeah. I still think the biggest thing here is that a self-driving, the difference between a self-driving taxi Uber and its current self-driving is a person in the front seat and not a person in the front seat.

And taking over. Yeah. I think even just the taking over part yeah scares me if that couldn't happen i don't think i want to be the guy in the backseat when that happens the one um waymo is it waymo yeah the one waymo that got in that really bad accident had a human driver that was supposed to take over but he didn't yeah so and that's also a lot that's why i say it's psychological it's because it's basically like how good does the tech get and how much do you trust it yeah that's like

tesla bot in there well then do you trust tesla bot that is the redundant like take over if something's a problem it's like we just need a button to stop like we have the the robot and we just have the big red button we just need to be sitting in the back seat with a button just ready to press it at any point. That's kind of all I need. Would you get in a self-driving airplane for a cross-country flight? Yeah. Airplanes are already basically...

No pilot in there to do anything. I don't know enough about how much pilots do. I probably don't know enough. I know a lot about how we drive, but I don't know enough about what pilots are for. I could be convinced. i don't know enough about how pilots are for i could be more can i could be convinced i don't know anyways adam what is your uh thought process on this in its current state i would not do it i could see it getting there in the future and i'll do it i also did a bmw self-driving demo in vegas. And that was terrifying. It was, yeah. And it was like... But exhilarating.

Like everything at CES. I got more exhilaration than terror. Well, yeah, because you were like, am I going to die? I don't know. I enjoyed that. So it was a fun experience. But then thinking about like

if an Uber just pulled up right now to take me home and there's no one in the front seat. Take me home to the CES. Don't you feel like if it's like publicly accessible and on the road and going to pick you up that it's safe enough to take you home to not don't you feel like if it's like publicly accessible and on the road and gonna pick you up that it's safe enough to take you home no i guess we have many things that are

on the road right now that are not safe like people like the hummer ev well yeah like the it's a great point but yeah there there is an element of like are we being beta tested on like sometimes there are real technologies that are out cisco yeah yeah in the world where i'm like just because it's out doesn't mean it's good. They're absolutely racing to be first, and I don't want to use this just because it's out. And I think, interestingly, with the self-driving cars, it doesn't feel that way. It feels like they could have been out a while ago and probably been just as good as they are now, but they have to be so sure that they're really careful to not ruin everything with one mistake

that they probably are even safer than you think it's kind of like how tesla takes the heat with all the negative for all the negative press that electric cars get yeah right like anything anytime anything happens to a tesla every car fire yeah every car fire yeah i mean there's a million car fires but anytime it's a tesla the headlines are tesla catches fire and it's like yeah i do think we'll see more evs just in that light in general now that there's more of them yeah yeah big oil i just want to throw throw one more idea out there maybe let let this idea marinate in your brains i don't think people are unsafe i think cars are just inherently unsafe like as a concept that is tricky oh yeah just throwing that out there i

feel like the only problem with posing that question is it makes it feel like all people are safe where like there are plenty of people no there there are plenty of drivers i hope to never encounter on the road yes don't get me wrong i just want to clarify that i think but it's not fun unless it's a one or the other yeah no context cars are it's not that they're unsafe it's that the way that we drive them around right now is unsafe like if you flip the switch tomorrow and every car became a self-driving car i think that would be a lot more safe yeah then if every car if every car would be way more versus a mix of people and that's the real challenge we're i

was just on another podcast talking about this i'm not going to spoil it too much but the idea of every car being a self-driving car i'm pretty sure we've also talked to neil degrasse tyson about this possibly but you can picture like a super highway of just cars going 100 miles an hour and they all talk to each other and they all can like immediately make moves all computer controlled and just like get you as fast and as safe as possible to your location but there's no way to get to that future yeah without getting through all the complexities of some cars are self-driving and some are 10 years old and they're humans and you can't get there without going through it ironically this analogy is like the windows versus mac analogy or the Android versus iOS analogy, mostly Windows versus Mac.

I'm listening. Because so Windows has to be like backwards compatible with a ton of enterprise software, right? And government software and all this stuff. So none of it, you can't really like switch to a whole new development platform and be like everyone has to change. development platform and be like everyone has to change but apple can literally be like if you don't update your app to support this or like be based on this we will just take you off the app store yeah so you can't take every car and be like you have to retrofit your car take you off the road g thing so it can talk to all the other care yeah but i do love the theoretical where every single car is a smart a self-driving car because you can literally not have roads and just have one big plane and everything is just weaving through each other at 150 miles an hour.

Yeah. It's awesome. Seems pretty sweet. What? Where would the buildings go? You can't just have one big plane. You could and the buildings are on the perimeter. That sounds like a terrible place to live. A big ring of buildings filled with an autonomous car. This is natural.

It's hypothetical. What are you talking about? The point I'm making is that you don't have to have everything go straight or sideways. It can weave between each other without slowing down at all. I hear that. Theoretically. Theoretically. Yeah.

But we've also built lots of roads already. Yes. So we kind of just like aim to fit the roads we've built also david this is america also marquez hasn't given us his answer on this yet i would take a self-driving uber okay well no one cares but you didn't say it and i didn't want to to get fired. So it's 40-60. Me and Marques versus all you. Interesting. Freaks. Little freaks. See you on the perimeter of the plane.

Mad Max over here. Okay, wait. I did also post something else to Twitter that I thought was interesting. I'm super interested in finding out more about this. So I posted an entire video to to x i guess i could call it x twitter to twitter i posted a whole video on twitter um i put the entire pixel uh can you trust google video on in its entirety on twitter now in the past i've done like all these fun interesting things where like you post a clip from the video and then link to the full video

or you post a short we've done all that in the past this time i just posted the entire video and as of today if you were to believe the numbers on twitter that are public facing which don't but if you were to believe that if you were to believe that then this is the most viewed piece of content that i have ever made ever on any platform stop stop it's not stop it's not i'll never take anything away from our lg wing our lg wing tiktok tiktok greatest video 35 million views something like that this video uh is less than a week old on x and has 38.3 million views there's like 29 million in like the first 24 like the first 24 hours. Like the first 24 hours. The thing though about that number is it's not views.

It's just impressions. It's just how many times it appeared on your timeline. And the reason I know this is because I'm going to screen share this so you can see it on the video version of the podcast. If you open up the analytics of the person who posted it and look at the numbers, it says impressions, which as you expand, it says the number of times this post was seen on x and just before you get to that the new feature that they added on twitter was a views number that shows a thing but when you hover it says views but you say when you click it it says impressions so a post, like if you just tweet some text, that number you could argue is the number of times it's been seen.

And so however you want to phrase that in the timeline, is that impressions? Is that views? Like what do people think that is? If I post it and someone is just flipping through their For You page or their timeline and it flies by, technically is that a view? I guess so. It's an impression.

But it's an impression. Like that's what the ad agencies would all call an impression. It showed up on your screen once and had the opportunity to be viewed or consumed or engaged with in some way. That's an impression. And I'll give some credit here

is that on Twitter, it is very hard to distinguish for just at least a text, like a regular text tweet, if it got scrolled by in red or if it just like or if it did get red because if you're not clicking on it which half the time i'm on twitter i'm not clicking on things yeah it is tough to tell that here's a good way of understanding this youtube does tell you views and impressions this same video that i posted on youtube has about two million views if you go at impressions, which on YouTube you know what an impression is,

it's this showed up somewhere in a recommended, on a homepage, in a sub box, in a notification. How many times did it just show up on someone's screen? That's impressions. And this had about 20 million impressions on YouTube. But it has 2 million views. million impressions on YouTube, but it has 2 million views. And if you go down to the, to the video metrics for Twitter, I'm just going to keep calling it Twitter. Uh, it has 6 million unique views. If I scroll down even more, however, there is an audience retention graph and I use the word graph lightly, but it is a nine minute video. Yeah, it's a nine minute video.

And, uh, the retention graph shows that by two minutes and 20 seconds into the video, how many, what percentage of people do you think we're still watching? You've pictured like the retention graph, like a 50% average iteration is pretty good on YouTube. If you get to the end with still 40% of people watching pretty good video, two minutes into a to the end with still 40% of people watching, pretty good video. Two minutes into a nine minute video, how many people do you think? Two percent. It's exactly two percent.

Is it really? Two percent. I'm a god. Bingo. Let's go. And so, if two percent of people are still watching by two minutes,

that's not really a view. Do you consider it a view? I mean, it's two minutes. It's not two seconds. So, I guess they viewed it. Like, okay, YouTube isn't fully it a view i mean it's two minutes it's not two seconds i guess they viewed it like okay youtube's isn't fully clear but we estimate it's anywhere between three to thirty seconds right yes but youtube is way more information they give you a graph yeah of like yeah a little more retention a little less and you can fast forward like what counts as an actual view on you but in general you're clicking on that usually

too right i guess i don't know how autoplay is working exactly but yeah if you could click on something and then immediately hit back before it goes to like three seconds yeah that's up to youtube youtube youtube to prevent gaming the system will never explicitly define a view i'm sure there's many parameters that will define a view but i think like between us if someone watches two seconds of a 10 minute video don't count that that's not a view right if people got to two minutes then it's they're watching the video yeah two percent of people got that far so two percent of the six million views got that far what is the what is the that metric on youtube do you have it uh got to two minutes yeah i will open up that right now.

Also, I should have published the Pixel review nine minutes ago. Oh, no. I literally thought. You just might as well hold on to it. Yeah, no. I'm going to find the analytics and then publish it. So, okay. Analytics.

Analytics. And I'll go into reach. You know what's crazy? 12 minutes ago, I was like, oh, in three minutes, we need to do that. I'll make sure to remind Mark. Two minutes into the video on YouTube, 63 63 of people were still watching wow so there's a big vast difference okay one second i'm gonna publish the pixel while you're doing that i'm just gonna say what i think i think the funniest part about this though is just how you hover on

the initial post and it says views then you click in and then it recalls it impressions instead and calls something else views and then unique views and then shows the retention graph, which the graph is very funny because like it's hard to without a visual. So for audio listeners, rather than just a straight line graph where you can see like every single second within the video,

is that what a line graph is, right? Yeah. It's a bar graph where it says like zero minutes with a big thing and then says two minutes where it's really small again and then like increments of two minutes. So you can't tell if all of those were on there for one second or two minutes. Wow. It's insanely hard to tell what's actually going on.

They just need to take a Riemann sum so they can actually understand that. A what? A Riemann sum. I don't know what that is. It's the, to tell what's actually going on. They just need to take a Riemann sum so they can actually understand that. A what? A Riemann sum. I don't know what that is. It's the... Let me define it. Boo! Get dunked on.

A Riemann sum is how you find an integral with trapezoids under a curve. That's what I meant. Trapezoids? No, it's rectangles, actually. I wanted to find the actual... Yeah. Wow, everyone was wrong. I'm just glad I pretended not to know.

It's how you find the area of trapezoids under a curve. Oh! Get dunked on again! Trapezoids. It's rectangles I pretended not to know. It's how you find the area of trapezoids under a curve. Oh, get dunked on again! Trapezoids. It's rectangles. Yeah, rectangles. But those are rectangles. It's bar graphs. But huge rectangles. I still don't understand it. It's way too big of rectangles as a point. The difference between...

Can you show David the graph? It's very funny. So the difference between didn't make it to two seconds and didn't make it to two minutes and twenty seconds is... It's just insane. You cannot tell on the graph because it's all in and didn't make it to two minutes and 20 seconds is insane. You cannot tell on the graph because it's all in one rectangle. Yeah, you can't tell. So while you're pulling that up, let's just say maybe we wanted to make this segment into a short. How would you wrap up what you think about Twitter video views and posting on the Twitter platform?

Here's the graph. Wow. Wow. Hello. 100% of people got to zero minutes. Why should you tell zero minutes? That's helpful information. 2%. And then it goes 1, 1, 0.

Zero people finished it? 0% finished. Oh, so probably just below. I mean, between zero and 1%. Doesn't even show up. Wow. Yeah. Can't even.

That's brutal. That's probably because you're the only one to ever post a video that long on x no you know what I to be fair Elon has been like encouraging everyone to do it because he wants to believe that the future of content is also on x so I this is literally just me trying it with this video he retweeted it and he retweets lots of other people who post content on x that's I'm sure especially exciting for him especially they use new features like yeah threads and all that kind of so like yeah it has 38 million views because someone with 100 million followers tweeted about it so yeah it's just gonna blip on lots of people's timelines but like this just reminds us all of what happened

with facebook not that many years ago where they decided, creators, Facebook video is the future. Oh, God. You want to be on our platform. Matter of fact, look at how many views you're getting on our content. And then advertisers went,

whoa, wait a minute. Look at how many views are over here. I think it's time to spend. I just got so triggered. I know. They all went to go spend

and then they all found out that those weren't views and here we are. Oh, I totally forgot about that whole thing. That was when they turned on autoplay and just a million videos showed up on your feed. That was like 2016, 2017, right? I want to say like 17, 18.

Wow. They were pushing it so hard back then. So we're going through the same thing now. For sure. It is what it is. So you're quitting YouTube. Why? You got 30 million views. I did, but I know that that's only impressions,

and that's also because of a couple big retweets, so I'm going to go with still working on it, still working out the bugs. Full-time Xer right now, still working out the bugs. We should talk about the Pixel a little bit more. We should take a quick break, though, before we do that, but I'm sure we'll have some thoughts on that, some thoughts on the Quest 3 and some more on adobe so before that break let's do a little trivia okay trivia okay first question we were talking

about uh uber a little bit ago uber uber travis kalanick and gar Kemp founded Uber in 2009. I thought that was the Taylor Swift guy. No, that's someone's dude. How dare you? Can you get a minus point? Travis Kelsey. King Travis Kelsey. They're both TK. Oh my God.

Okay. But Kemp is also the co-founder of another popular app slash search engine. What was it? If you want a hint hint the logo was an orange s u like the letters like the letters it was very popular back in the day back in the day what can what's what counts as back i feel like all the old search engines now are just like clickbait gallery websites like really bad news websites i'm just trying i'm thinking of all the search engines i've ever had yeah i don't remember alta vista yeah baby i lived on alta vista drive

so it is technically a search engine as well but don't get hung up on that it's more of an app i thought of it as an app it should be right but it is a search engine an app yeah it was an app it It should be, right? But it is a search engine. An app? Yeah. It was an app. It was a Chrome extension. It was a website. That's a tough one. We'll think on it. It's a wigwam.

It's a teepee. We'll figure it out, and we'll be right back. We'll be right back. No matter your team, your favorite skater, or your style, there's something every NHL fan is going to love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your hockey home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sports book worth a celly and an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager.

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Let's talk about the Pixels. We can finally talk about them. We've been using the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro here at the studio for a little bit now. The review is up. Our thoughts are live. Have you, you haven't watched the whole video yet andrew actually i don't nobody here i only saw the intro because

brendan and i brainstormed it for a while but i wasn't able to help so you had a little bit of my thoughts based on my direction on for sure where the video would go but now we can talk about everything pixel i'm going to give my high level version of this, which is I am thoroughly enjoying using the phone. And I think it's finally feeling like a flagship, especially because of the new display. And then there's just a whole bunch of googly stuff all throughout this phone that the more I use them, the more I get used to them and miss them in other phones.

And some of those are just like the photo features and the like fixing it in post stuff. Some of them are just like call screens, useful, like just classic Google stuff. I like the lock screen and material you, blah, blah. And there's a ton of that stuff. But I think it really finally feels, and this is the 8 Pro that I'm mostly using.

It finally feels full on flagship. And I'm happy about that very very bright screen yeah love that super actual super actual display 2400 nits on that bad boy it's every bit of that too uh i have gotten good battery life i'm happy to say me too so i've i've gotten between my normal days of using it in the past week like six to eight hours of proper screen on time, which is a good battery life on a smartphone on this 5,000 milliampere battery. So that's great on the Pro. The cameras are pretty good. I think video shows more improvement than photos. I think photos look all right.

They kind of have a little bit more watercolory tendency and a little bit more over HDR tendency sometimes, which I've noticed. But they are big new displays. And video, I shot the whole autofocus video on the Corvette, super detailed, sharp, maybe over sharpened, but very, very good video. The color is great. Awesome color. The dual exposure pixels are what make the video better. Yeah. So autofocus is fast. It's accurate. It's been reliable for me. I keep flipping it back and forth between the car and myself. And like, this is why I shoot the autofocus videos on a phone.

And so I get that experience with it. The microphones are not as good. And I think I was trying to use some of the audio eraser features to get rid of the wind in the background. And there's only so much you can do. It did okay with that. But I really like these phones. This is probably what's going to be staying in my pocket.

I do have some more phones to test this year, so I can't speak this prematurely, but I really like the phone. Yeah. Yeah. So some of the more interesting things that people were asking about that I think are worth diving into a little bit more

are one, what is a photo? Who knows? I don't know. Is it real? Is any of this real? Nothing's real. And then two, is tensor g3 meaningfully different from our our complaints with tensor in the past kind of i would say yeah kind of um especially

because i've had now i don't know how long it's going to last but i've had pretty good battery life and i think that a lot of that is because of tensor um software optimization of course will play a part android 14 has been breathing new life into phones after they fix all the bugs. I'm happy to say that. But I don't think it's that much of a difference otherwise. It's not like some super mega powerful new chip. They're more focused on TPU and AI features and they've got a lot of that going. I think a lot of the crazy stuff with this phone

is just all the crazy camera stuff they're doing with the software editing and the magic eraser and magic editor and audio eraser and endless features about like manipulating your photos as soon as you take them if they released all of these camera features on the pixel 7 and 7 pro as a feature drop it would be insane it would be like a whole new phone i'm pretty sick uh one thing i want to say about like the whole lineup of phones is like they they move the prices up

this year each phone is more expensive the pixel 8 is 120 hertz now it's gotten its upgrade new new tpu new cameras and all that but it is now 700 to start and then this is now 900 to start so they just bumped them both up i honestly think yeah 999 to start yeah i still think the pixel 8 now that we've used them is a good phone for the price i still believe that yeah um and i think it's harder than ever to justify the 8 pro and you can see google even trying to justify the 8 pro by artificially gating some features to just pro yeah a lot even though they're the same computer i mean it's extra RAM but it's the same Tensor G3 and the same primary camera and the same selfie camera but only one of them

gets pro mode the pro only one of them can actually take 50 megapixel photos the pro only one of them gets the generative fill auto magic eraser that's the pro later this year the raws are the raws are

12 megapixel on the regular one too which is everything weird because i think the pixel 6 the raw on the regular pixel 6 non-pro was the full 48 the full 48 which is the generative fill magic eraser so you have regular magic eraser on pixel already on pixel 7 yeah okay but there's a new improved generative fill magic eraser yeah where you can like select things to it works the exact same way it's just the quality of what it fills in is better yeah they used to do in painting and now they do generative fill okay yeah that's weird yeah why are you getting that i don't know i imagine google always eventually just moves this stuff exactly photos and i think they will because there's sort of this trend in the tech industry

right now where everyone's trying to get you to use more storage so that they can sell you storage in the cloud oh really interesting yeah i don't know if i've picked up on that oh yeah you think they're everyone's doing it okay because apple just gave us gave us high resolution by default but it was only one and a half times the file size it wasn't like double the file size per photo well but think about this though like if that's another way to gate you into an ecosystem if you use one drive and then microsoft makes you have like way more files and the files get bigger you have to buy more storage and then you're it's even harder to move to another cloud storage solution so everyone's sort of trying to make you do that and then pushing you towards the higher and higher tiers interesting yeah i mean

google used to give you free photo storage unlimited yeah and now they don't anymore i know that was a long time ago and obviously like things are getting file sizes are getting bigger but sorry my google went off karma hit real hard right there you played yourself um but yeah like file sizes are getting bigger but like storage is also getting cheaper except we're the ones paying for more storage size and they're not um but yeah that the whole i just wanted like an anecdote from this weekend i was doing some like i went out with some family and there was a couple cousins that all have kids and i mentioned the face swap feature when we were trying to take a group photo with all of the kids and every single one of them was like what phone does that what is that oh my god that would be amazing. So I think for the masses,

that feature is going to hit real hard. I want to go through each of the crazy camera features and explain how well they actually work now that we've used them. Because we saw the commercials, right? It's different from the commercials. Yeah, now they're actually out. So the one you're describing,

which is called Best Take, works very, very well. I think I called it Top Shot at one point. You could call it a bunch of okay that's what it was called yeah but it's called it's called best take but what what happens is it sees your gallery has a burst of photos of the same group of people and it goes oh there's like nine of these here any one of them you can pick as the base photo go into edit so pick the one where you like the body positions of people, go into edit and then hit best take and then it will go find all the other copies of people's faces and literally give you a selector

for the faces for those people. And it works very well at merging people's face and neck to match. Unless you zoom in really tight, you can't tell. Yeah, genuinely 99 out of 100 quality edit like really really good it makes sense because you can only do it within a burst photo of things right so like it's not just a burst you can take like one photo wait a couple seconds take another way okay seconds so yeah i guess i was i'm thinking burst so like not much movement can happen but

as long as it's in the same general general area yeah scene yeah okay so there could be plenty of movement and it's still there could be plenty of movement and it's still there could be plenty of movement but the like the shadows are generally the same like you're not moving your location yeah yeah okay have we tested how far apart those pictures need to be for this to work yeah we should push it to yeah let's be mine let's make two people in the studio sit in the same spot for 24 hours and take pictures between add a bunch of shadow in one photo and then make it really bright in the other photo and see if it will still...

Merge on the bright face. So it looks weird, yeah. We might have to play with this a little more. Yeah, yeah. But just, you know, that one feature... Really well. Amazingly well. That's why the ads are all about that.

Yeah. So then you have... I'll do audio eraser next. This is the one where they gave the example of pointing it at like a street musician but there was like a siren in the background and you could just like erase the siren while keeping the street musician and i think that exact example would probably work really well because the frequencies of a cello being really low and the frequencies of an ambulance being really high

can actually be probably separated a little easier than my example, which was basically wind just like distorting and peaking the mic. And that was really hard to remove. And I think I should expect that to be hard to remove. So there's going to be situations where it works well and situations where it doesn't work well. Sometimes it will legitimately save your video from some weird random seagull noise in the background.

Sometimes it will not be able to fix your video. So it's like a 50-50 for me. I had low expectations for that one. And I felt like in that sense, it was more of a like, I captured this random moment. I'm not looking to turn this into a video or like put actual real production and editing behind it. But I just like am sad that I tried to get some sort of noise and there's another noise blocking it. And maybe I can salvage enough of it

so when I'm trying to like show this moment to people, you can understand what's happening. Also interesting note, and this is a little bit sneak peek, but we're going to talk about later in the podcast, but Adobe also just announced an audio eraser feature in premiere and it's uh it does the analyze and the analyzing thing but it's just a slider you can't break like the pixel will break it apart into like this is wind noise this is animal noise this is this noise you can't do that in in the adobe one but i suspect so i'm very curious about that yeah google's ui is

amazing for this it's a feature that i don't think a lot of people are going to like dig in and find that often but if they do it is it is really cool just like going oh noise delete yeah wind delete yeah animal noise we'll leave it now you know what delete it like you can do it too so you can leave it a little bit in if you want it to feel like organic because sometimes if you slide something all the way down it kind of it puts a compressor on it and it makes the voice sounds really compressed yeah yeah so i give that like you know five out of ten works okay yeah um magic eraser still works really well it's still pretty good at recognizing objects magic editor is a crazy one yeah um it's funny because you go into edit a photo and it's like all black and white UI and then it's like this colorful glowing rainbow button in the corner that's like click please use me I'm over here yeah so you click it and it opens

this this whole new UI and there is definitely some latency to this where it's like all right you're gonna make a big edit here and it's gonna take a few seconds to generate some new versions and then spit them out but basically you select something with your hands and then do something to it. Whether it's moving it, growing it, shrinking it, changing the sky, changing the atmosphere, all these features. And then you hit go

and it takes some time and then generates four versions of hopefully fixing your problem. This one's incredibly silly to be gated. Wait, is this gated? No, this one works. This is not gated.

This one's across the board. Magic eraser. Good, good, good. And... Magic editor. Magic editor, sorry. Right. The thing that I found interesting is

there were some examples in the commercial that we talked about on last week's podcast that I was very curious about. You remember the kid on the bench with the balloons where they move them to the middle and it generates the kid on the bench with the balloons where they move them to the middle yeah and it like generates the rest of the bench and the balloons yeah so i just downloaded that picture and tried it really and it didn't quite get it like it got it added some of the balloons back but the bench it didn't really figure out very well like it was it was like a c- edit like if i saw that i'd be like oh you messed up the edit like it's very visibly bad but there are some other things where

it was just like perfect and you could just move like objects around the frame i moved a car around the frame i moved all kinds of things but then the other thing about the commercial is they had they're like moving people around yeah and i think they moved the one kid like higher over the basket to like make it look like he was dunking i took some pictures i have some pictures on my gallery of like me jumping and i said let me try that and i highlighted me and tried to move me almost every single time i try to move me it wouldn't do it it refused oh yeah and it gave me an error that said this may violate the gen ai terms yeah for google i tried it on tim's tongue and it did the same thing wait i know that i was gonna say like have you ever seen the videos where people will like

take a picture of their significant other and like edit their eyes just like a little bit further apart and say like oh you look so great in this picture i just took of you and they'll be like is that what i look like i was like this is magic editor is the way to just troll all of your friends but for sure i guess the funny thing about this too is because it's gen ai it's different every time right so you could take the same image and try it multiple times and it's going to give you different results like dolly yeah like dolly so you just kind of have to like keep playing with it wait when you say different results not only that the results are different but also the potentially skirting around

like what it will it so like if you're trying to move marquez to jump higher and it says it might be like another in violation another photo of marquez jumping could might work right that sounds totally it's like it works perfect i tried a bunch of photos. It seemed like the number one way to get it to trip for me was to try to just move me far in the photo, like laterally or higher. It would freak out and not do it. So I would just like select myself and move me, but I can move all kinds of objects and other stuff

and it would be totally fine. What if you select everything around you? What if you color in the entire thing around you and push it down? Make everything else small. Okay, so it didn't work with that but what i will say is i did find a picture in my gallery with a watermark and i selected everything around the watermark and hit erase and it perfectly erased the watermark and

uh that's just not against their general terms apparently totally fine that's heaven forbid you jump higher but you want to steal some artwork yeah i got you it's a fascinating feature i have a feeling it tries it like doesn't like skin or just things that could be manipulated in a weird way that's like i tried to make i wanted tim's tongue to be really long but it's funny because in the commercial they're moving people around yeah like several of the examples are moving people for you i don't know like i tried like I tried a bunch of photos of people. I was like, oh, that's funny. I can lie about how high I jump in photos.

And then I tried a bunch of photos of me jumping and none of them would let me. It's so weird. But it would let me move the Frisbee. It would let me move like the background and a tree and erase the people behind me. But that tripped it a lot for some reason. There's also a new feature that they never talked about called camouflage in the magic uh i saw that eraser magic editor thing yeah and it just takes all of the color out of the thing that you highlight i'm not sure why they it just makes it black and white did we try more of it like we were trying it the other day okay because when we were trying with brandon

we were all just confused to the point where we thought we were doing it's like reverse color pop basically yeah it's like hey you want to color pop this photo rather than selecting what you do want to color pop yeah how about you select everything you don't want to have color so maybe there's like uh something that's too hard to delete and it would look weird so you're trying to just turn it black and white if you're like taking an artsy photo and like everything is like yellow and blue but there's like one kind of annoying thing that's like red you could just like desaturate it so that the colors still look nice but then that's black and white in like a totally color photo yeah sometimes you wouldn't notice though i'd like to see an example of somebody who's used this well like what if my shoes what if my shoes were like

yellow so i just turn them like black and white and shoes could totally be black and white in a normal circumstance yeah maybe it's interesting i still think it would look it's a weird feature yeah it's right next to magic eraser in the set yeah yeah it's just like a slide consider and that's just weird considering it's a minor feature but it is strange yeah but yeah that's that's the fee i i'd i give magic editor like a six out of 10 for the times it works and then a 0 out of 10 for the times it says it won't do it. But I also think it's Google and there's got to be some sort of limits. So I'm sure people are going to try way crazier things than I tried

with flying in photos. So it's probably good that there's some boundaries on it. So yeah, that's the story of the pixel the video is the video quality is way better yeah um my understanding of this is effectively this is kind of like how they do hdr so usually when you do hdr you're stacking frames and then you just take the average color of each pixel in that frame so you get rid of the noise because noise is random in this one you're taking like a high gain and then a low gain pixel and stacking the pixels and so if one has one if one has more noise than the other then it averages it out high gain low

gain meaning high and low sensitivity sensitivity so if if one peaks in high gain but doesn't peak in low gain that's kind of like hdr as well yes okay yeah oh and speaking of hdr something that we didn't mention um these now support ultra hdr yeah i read a really good android police i'll put we should have a link to this article about like explaining ultra hdr and i guess it's coming soon because we haven't been able to test because what is it on my phone so i've seen hdr but i don't know if it's the new ultra hdr which is like baked into jpeg if that like i can share it. I can show it to you.

Okay. Yeah. So I'll share the article below, but essentially it's like a very compatible file format that's not just tone mapping and blasting certain pixels, but it's actually just like, it's not HDR when it's not on an HDR monitor, and it is HDR when it is on an HDR monitor.

Which is pretty sweet. That's like the biggest issue with HDR is most people don't have an HDR monitor yet. So yeah i was happy to see that the fact that you can see it's working so it's cool and you you can see it just when you take photos on the pixel if you take a photo of like a bright area yeah if you look at that photo it like it kind of you're like is that area that's really bright yeah hdr is crazy sometimes i'll be on like a totally dim web page like scrolling and then an HDR image comes up and it's like all right this pixel full brightness like we're cranking it right now HDR is really sketchy sometimes so I'm glad that compatibility is at least being

focused on yeah I think it only works with the rear camera but yeah it is kind of like things are very bright there's also a temperature sensor on the pro oh right i forgot about that huge how many times have you used it i have not used it a single time other than filming it so that tells you how much i care about it um perfect it measures the temperature of things oh yeah that's what that yeah new thermometer app too what is pretty cool i'll end i guess with some of my my biggest downsides of the pixel this time around with this pixel 8 generation um number one i will say is fingerprint reader did not improve and it's fine but in the world of a bunch of other $900 phones with much better, much faster, and more reliable

and different conditions ultrasonic fingerprint readers, this one being the same size and still being optical, like they couldn't pull off the software magic to make this one better. It still needs the extra second to get it, but red. The software magic that they did pull off was AI in the front-facing camera to enable face unlock and banking apps and stuff.

Which is awesome. That's really nice. So that's two contrasting things. One, they were like, we don't need extra hardware. We don't need infrared. We'll just do more with software to get more information here. And with the ultrasonic fingerprint reader, they were like, sorry. Same thing.

Classic Google. That's a slight bummer. Doing the software. The back material, I think, is actually really good. It doesn't really show as many fingerprints as I would think. It looks really nice. It feels awesome. For a matte black phone, I would expect more.

But I was bummed that there weren't more color options this year. The only really colorful one is blue. Yeah. It's funny because in some lights, at an angle, this almost looks like a really dark blue. And I was like, that would be sick. I mean, matte black's nice. But a really dark blue and i was like yeah that would be sick but yeah i mean matte black's nice but a really dark blue that does look yeah it's kind of just like dark gray or light gray like what do you want like the say the sage is that the other one

they're camouflage one it's like a little bit green camouflage it's it's basically gray it's gray so that's that's basically my that's my two downsides like there's not that much bad about this phone so i'm happy it's pretty solid yeah yeah it's all i still consistently miss the pixel fold when i'm using it though personally i just like the size that is interesting because i came from the pixel fold yeah and this is straight to the pro it's a much bigger screen yeah but i also felt like i was using the pixel fold mostly closed closed and so I got really used to the smaller aspect ratio and now I just have a huge canvas now and I feel like this is great

I really want to go to the Pixel 8 but I do like the small Zenfone size the Pixel 8 is a little smaller than the Pixel 7 6.2 I'm probably going to ask one of you guys to use yours for like a day or two how big is the Zenfone screen? I want to say it's like 6.2 i'm probably gonna ask one of you guys to use yours for like a day how big is the zenfone screen i want to say that's like six points smaller than an iphone mini i'm just kidding

i'm kidding i'm kidding zenfone 10 display diagonal 5.9 inches oh wow 5.9 so 5.9 to 6.3 it's it don't wait that doesn't look that crazy, though. That actually doesn't look that crazy. This is the 8 Pro. This is 6.7. So imagine 6.3. It's not that much bigger than your phone. I might have to steal the 8 review for a little bit. I'll let you play with it, yeah.

But that's Pixel. Do we want to take a quick break and then do Meta and Adobe? Is that what we should do? Sure. So I think before that quick break, what should we do? Let's see. One, two, carry the one. I'm always taking strays over here.

Welcome back to Trivia. All right, question two from Ellis. In 2016, Microsoft acquired what is now the eighth largest social media network in the world. And before you come at me, I know that stat could be read in a bunch of different ways. But I'm calling it the eighth largest social media network in the world. Okay. With

almost a billion users. Yeah. Which social network is it? Cool. I already know it. Microsoft? Microsoft. Microsoft's the social network microsoft bought the social network yeah it's the movie bing bing it's called bingo bing is kind of a social network because you can talk to it now we'll be right back

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let's talk quest 3 a little bit yeah I have a lot of questions you want to talk about quest three i really want to talk about it i've got the answers i'm like dj khaled i got how long have you been using it for um i've got all the answers most of them false make it up as i go no uh i've i've mostly used it for two days okay and i've played a lot of random games and experiences on the quest three for two days i've done a lot of past their and experiences on the Quest 3 for two days. Have you done a lot of pass-through stuff? More Beat Saber? Yes.

Okay. So, just to give the high level, Quest 3 is like a Quest 2, but higher resolution, more responsive, wider field of view, and with much better pass-through. Color. Color pass-through, which enables mixed reality experiences and also makes setup way better yeah so you just put the headset on pass through turns on it's like all right draw your area boom you're set up go has auto area drawing too if you want yeah and that was pretty good and i just like expanded it a little bit because i was like i can go past the couch it's fine uh that's the quest three yeah yeah it so i'm like mostly asking these questions based on uh quinn posted a video did

you watch that oh he did no so it's like him in this pretty small room and he's in pass through you can see the mapping of the room but he's in this program where essentially you can create 3d objects in um your space and then you can turn the physics on so he said in just like a quick setup the when you look at the mapping of the room it looks very basic but then he pulls out this like 3d car turns off the physics it's like a 3d model of a car turns off the physics and just starts dropping it and it's like interacting with every single thing in the room it's falling on the top of the couch rolling down the pillows rolling onto the. It's like going onto a shelf, the space between like books and the shelf above it.

Like it's mapped all of that out. And the way it's interacting with everything looks super, super impressive. I was impressed. I could still tell that there were not glitches, but like it wasn't perfect. But I was, that's way better than any headset i've ever used has ever handled objects in the room that i'm in um passing shadows and

also i'm like yeah i'm watching his video that's about the quality of the pass-through like it's good it's color it's not high res i and i guess i'm kind of spoiled because i tried vision pro so i'm like trying to remember that that's absurd what I tried. But in Vision Pro I could take my phone out and read my phone. And like take notes and type on my phone screen.

Quinn said he thought that it was just passable enough to be able to read his phone. I could not read my phone. Really? Yeah. It wasn't good enough to do that. But it was just short of that. So I could like see what screen my phone was on, but I was not about to like type something. Like if you made me type out a tweet on my phone

with the headset on, I would not feel comfortable sending it because I don't know what I wrote. Sounds like a fun game. But it's still color. You can see the room you're in. There's no crazy like parallax issues. You can walk around.

There's absolutely no latency problems to the point where now I'm starting to think like could I play table tennis with the headset on i think i could i think you'll be like in pass through playing in past sorry yeah real table tennis with a real paddle because there's good enough pass through with low enough latency yeah so that's good um i'm still like separating the quest pros as being easily the highest resolution, most real life pass-through I've ever seen. Besides the Vision Pro. Sorry. Vision Pro.

What did I say? Quest Pro. Oh, delete that. Quest Pro, baby, let's go! Ellis is wearing a Quest Pro at this very moment for the audio listeners. No, the Vision Pro is the best I've ever seen, and that's in a league of its own. This pass-through, I think it's better than yeah quest pro better than quest pro better than quest pro i feel like this completely just like cannibalizes the quest pro in general which is something

interesting why still when they first announced this i didn't think it would have any of this because it sounds like it would cannibalize it i would buy this over the quest pro a thousand times over selling very well at all even if they were the same price i would buy the quest three over the quest so i think that's two different weren't selling very well at all. Even if they were the same price, I would buy the Quest 3 over the Quest. So I think that's two different answers. Number one, does it cannibalize Quest Pro? And number two, would you buy it over the Quest Pro? Yes.

And I think one of those is obviously true. You should not buy the Quest Pro. Yeah. But I still think Quest Pro will have its place just in the fact that it's like meant to be worn all day and it is more comfortable to wear all day. Really? Based on all the, yeah, the padding at the back, the way they spread the weight around your head.

It's also a little bit different software. Wait, this one's supposed to be worn all day? It's comfy? Yes. Yes. Oh, that's not looking good for Quest 3. This is kind of a thought I had and now I want to ask you about, if I can budge in there if we're talking about being comfortable. being comfortable i'm almost wondering if lighter cheaper materials in a headset might make more sense because of how much lighter they are yes that thing is i did not find very comfortable i

know it has the battery in the back and is like counterbalance but like my quest 2 is so comfortable minus sweat after a while like i have absolutely no problems wearing it until the battery just dies so i'm gonna make a couple couple of like observations on the fly without having recently tried Quest 2. But it feels like Quest 3 is a little heavier. Okay. And balance is almost as important as weight. So this is one of the issues

that Apple's going to have to contend with with theirs, which is it is so heavy that it is inevitably going to cause neck fatigue mark german just had an article about that recently that like users with testing envision pro after two hours are having neck pains because it's such good material so high quality and it's all front facing yeah so this is and i this is why i said that in the video. They use plastic, sure, and it's cheaper and it feels less premium, but they do that for a reason. The Quest 3 feels a little bit heavier than I remember Quest 2 being,

but it's not as balanced as Quest Pro because all of the weight is still on the front of your face. And when I take it off, I feel all the pressure right below my eye and the weight constantly being at the front of my head. It's not an issue it's just not as balanced as putting some of the weight behind your head and being able to move around and wear it more but do you think the full like soft straps and everything are potentially more i need i need to try both of them i haven't gotten to try the quest three yet i think it looks more comfortable than the quest pro so i think what they're finding is there's a new strap on the quest three and i think what they're finding is there's a new strap on the Quest 3.

And I think what they're finding is the more you can spread out the pivot point of like where it anchors to the back of your head, the better. Like Apple has this big old mesh thing. I don't know if you remember. And I think that's their version of trying it. The Quest 3 has like a. Although that's an optional accessory. Well, no, the one over the top is optional. He's talking about just the band part of the back.

Yeah, the back piece and i think that's where they're trying to like at least get some of the feeling of the weight off the front of your face and so the quest has this over the top like band that turns into a y shape and goes to the back band and so it kind of is more comfortable because of that but i still i've looked at Ellis real quick. I still think what Ellis is wearing is more balanced than any of these solutions.

That's a subtle difference between weight and balance. Okay. So how's the gaming? So the games, I mean it's the ecosystem is about as good as it was yesterday. You can use hand gestures now. Oh, okay. Yeah, we can talk about that.

So the games are still there. I played a lot of the old games I'd been playing. Super Hot, Ping Pong. There's a new golf game. It's dope. I think it's called Golf Plus. I don't know. Whatever.

It's there. I played it. It's fun, actually. But you're right. There's much better hand controls. So the new controllers actually don't have the orb around them. It's just like these disk controller things without the orb, and they track just as well as they ever have.

I guess they kind of use the infrared and the sensors on the front, and even if you totally occlude them with your hand, they seem like they're totally still tracked. It's the Quest Pro controllers, pretty much. They look exactly the same. They track very, very well. You can put those controllers down and use your hands and literally like move menus around and place them in your room with your hands yeah you still have to do this weird thing where like

you press buttons that aren't there in real life so you're like pushing through where a keyboard would be and like pushing through where something would be but if you exaggerate it enough it works well like you can scroll through a menu with your hand by like pushing through and scrolling the menu with your finger i'm imagining it's like the overacting of like comedy skits on like tiktok where you're just sitting there doing this and pressing that's probably what you look like yeah yeah but yeah it does track your hands really well. You can move the menus around, which by the way are super high resolution. They look great.

And you can move around in space and they stay in space because the room is super well tracked. So the front of the quest looks different because it has way more sensors facing out and things track really well. So yeah, all that works. It's fun.

I think it looks so cool. It's fun. It makes me so sad that like meta is trying to go like so intensely into this metaverse thing, which kind of just like sours it a little bit by trying to make it seem like we're all going to live in this made up world where it just seems like an awesome VR slash AR experience system that I really like because I loved the Quest 2. And like, I think vr is so much more accessible now that we've gotten rid of all the wires and sensors and everything and we're all like inside of just a headset you can put it on your living room super easily you don't need a

whole separate area it plugs into a computer like the olden days of vibe yeah i mean which was so much fun still but like the fact that now like when my mom comes over and visits she can just throw on the quest 2 and play beat saber and she's obsessed with it and does it every single time so like i think this is awesome i think 500 is still pretty reasonable if you're looking at other consoles and stuff like that yeah but just the entire thing just felt way too on this like can't you wait to see your friends with no legs from across the country it's just like it's i like i i think it's like a little bit sour but i i think the quest 3 looks awesome i can't wait to use it yeah it's pretty awesome it's a pretty different device than the vision pro so it's

kind of hard to compare them yeah it but it is adding like a lot more of the mixed reality features which vision pro is more oriented towards yeah and the fact that you can get it for 500 instead of 3500 is a pretty big upsell yeah it's like i i know that apple's always gonna have the ecosystem and they're gonna have a lot of things fine-tuned but a sixth of the price is a crazy difference and also like i still wonder if the quest 3 might be more comfortable than the vision pro because of how heavy it is what if i told you that you can use your own battery bank probably probably what if i told you that in four years there will be a cheaper apple vision headset non-pro what's cheaper

cheaper than three thousand dollars is pretty easy 700 let's say if i say 700 making up 700 and the advantage to that one will be obviously the ecosystem stuff and all of the things that apple learns from their 3500 experience maybe that's better optics better screens but then meta has the quest five or six at that point that they've also learned that's a great plan actual user i do think like meta has a big step forward on all of this just like they've been doing this for so long which i think that's true but then apple just stepped in and made the best pass-through i've ever seen yeah yeah at a price point that's not really consumer focused yeah it's it's so hard to

compare but like if i want if i want my 700 headset to learn from any other headset i definitely wanted to learn from apples you know i guess i don't know enough about the internals and who's learning what and can i learn something from something that has this like insane state of the art whatever and then make it into with like consumer based off the shelf products that can be sold for way cheaper or apple's also a trillion dollar company and maybe they just take a loss on the the cheap version later there's a lot of variables i don't know where exactly it's gonna go but yeah there there'll be more quests by the time that comes out i have no i i have no idea it's a weird i'm with you that it's a great gift right now.

It is an awesome first VR headset because of how well the mixed reality stuff makes setup super easy. It makes it way more natural to just have the menu floating in the room you're in instead of being in a virtual world immediately. I think it makes people more comfortable being able to see the room around them. I think it's a great first headset

for a lot of people because of that, how well it works. Yeah. I think it's interesting that they're really pivoting now into mixed reality stuff, though. Like, that's, it's funny. It feels very reactive to me because I think that when the Quest has been built over the last amount of years, when the quest has been built over the last amount of years back when it was like the oculus rift it sort of felt like they were always very focused on gaming and being in a fully virtual environment i mean that's the whole reason that facebook like make they made um horizon worlds and they made your avatars and all these things and they were like yeah we're gonna be all virtual completely

virtual totally virtual and then apple did the vision pro and then now the new quest is like this is now more pass through i would fight back though because the quest pro was out before the vision pro and that was like all ar pass through stuff but the passer was not nearly as good just because it's not as good doesn't mean they reacted to it no like the vision pro the vision pro was like super pass through look as someone who has used the ar part of the vision pro now for like since it came out quest pro it is very confusing between vision pro and just like you know when you were talking about like experience like the quest pro is like borderline unusable right as a as a ar device like like literally i'm not here saying it's better than the vision pro no no i know but just like you literally like

i'm looking right at a computer screen and i cannot see anything on it like i can't make out any of your faces right now everything is shaking violently as we speak i'm saying their focus was on that before apple released the vision pro right i think it's just yeah it was their focus and that's what they tried to do but it also was their version one and it turned out that they needed more learnings to do and that for sure honestly quest 3 is a better quest pro than the quest pro that's a lot of that's enough that's why I say it's cannibalizing. Yeah, that's totally fair. That's what I feel like, too.

They've definitely learned. Why would you ever... When you said before, like, they're kind of separate on, like, would you buy it and does it have its place? Its place is to rip off a bunch of enterprises to pay way too much for it. And then to learn from it to build a better thing. Maybe, but yeah. Quest 3, why would you ever buy Quest Pro?

If Quest 3... It feels like... Quest Pro walked, so Quest 3 could jog. It feels like Tesla Roadster to Tesla Model S to Tesla Model 3. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Like you should never buy a Tesla Roadster, the original Tesla Roadster today. But it was a $100,000 sports car. At one time. And now we have a Model 3. Yeah. Just saying. Yeah.

It happened. So that's, that's quest three i'm i'm working on putting together a full review of it so you guys can see all my thoughts and and all my comparisons as someone who has tried some of the crazy things that apple put out and also someone who can reference uh old quest stuff as well but we also want to talk about some adobe stuff yeah let in i'll let you dive into the adobe what where did you go i went to adobe max which is their annual uh it's not really a developer conference it's more of like a here's all our new features and we're gonna have like classes and get a bunch of creators who've been using these features for a while that teach you how to use it and just a bunch of creative people to like come together and like meet each other and talk about their processes and all this stuff there's a few reasons

i wanted to go one because the last couple of years uh adobe has announced a lot of like really crazy ai features at adobe max yeah and that's an interesting space for me because we mostly use final cut but premiere is getting more and more like they're plugging in ai features really fast are they yeah interesting a lot of interesting ai features okay because i know photoshop is doing a lot of stuff premiere is getting kind of crazy i'm very interested in premiere things huh yeah um so the first half of the the keynote was kind of felt like a bunch of adults just making collages for an hour um because they announced firefly fire well no sorry they didn't announce firefly they just like showed the power of firefly and for those that don't know firefly is their version of dolly yeah um and i have this

hot take that both ai image generation and also aibots are not even remotely close to the actual useful things that we're going to do with AI. It's just that they're the first things that came out to the public that felt flashy and like a party trick that people could look at and say, wow, that's better than everything that we have currently. Almost like the gimmick version of it. Yes. But because they were the first things that got released and because they're the things that make investors go wow that's really cool companies are investing really heavily on trying to make this technology better than everybody else so there's sort of this race to the bottom um so you got google making ai and image generation you got adobe you got like all these people so the first half of the keynote was just them being like, look, I can create a garden and then put a Fox in it.

And then I can put a butterfly in front of the Fox and wow, look at my piece of art. And I would say to that, does that make you happy? Because I think that a lot of art, a lot of doing art and making art has to do with how you feel about what you made. And like,

if you feel personal gratification for making it because art is subjective it's philosophy we're getting to philosophy immediately sorry yeah yeah no i feel i'm i'm with you on that like the ai tools i've had a lot of these conversations yeah the ai tools like lower the barrier to making better things but then it's also less effort so it feels like it's technically not as good it's weird i think there are there are ways you can like separate it if there's just like a like rotoscoping you know what rotoscoping is for people that don't know in movies if you want to like cut out a character so that you can like change the background you have to do this thing called

rotoscoping where you basically like pick little points all around the character frame by frame and cut them out so that you can cut out the background. And I have multiple friends who like work at studios. And when you're an intern at one of these studios, the thing that they make you do for like six months is just do rotoscoping because it's the worst job no one wants to do. Now they have AI rotoscoping tools where you press a button and for the entire 30 second clip, it's all worst job no one wants to do now they have ai at rotoscoping tools where you press a button and for the entire 30 second clip it's all rotoscoped yeah it's like super tedious work super tedious yeah so that's not a thing that's like i'm gonna be creative here it's more just like no one wants to do this and i'm all for that um but yeah i don't know anyway so that was the first that was the first half of the keynote was

just them showing like reminding people that firefly exists right um but then they expanded firefly so they expanded it to firefly vectors so now you can make vector art with firefly which vector art is like an illustrator it's got all the little points that are completely editable yeah so it's like a mapped out version it's like you drew it by hand and that's really interesting because you're generating it's like generating images but you can manipulate them to a very very high fine yeah and i've i've if i'm not mistaken vector also generally means since it has those points is it's scalable like infinite infinitely yeah yeah so that's like such an important thing that's

what people use illustrator for is because you can scale it infinitely yeah um so that was really cool they introduced illustrator web which is a lot simpler version of illustrator that is on the internet i really wish they would do this for after effects because after effects is like the most complicated looking program if we get to the point where you have in browser after effects we're on another it's that's wild that it will no you're not wrong yeah it's just really crazy to think about yeah wait can we clarify real quick these are in beta still right they're out now um in beta though i think they're all on beta yeah yeah but i think they're they're all like you can use it you can use it. You can use it now. Okay, cool. Yeah. Everything dropped yesterday. Okay, Premiere.

So they now have text-based editing Premiere. So every time you pull clips in, it automatically transcribes it. Okay. And then you can, like, highlight a part of text and click a button, and it'll drop the clip of just that text into the timeline. So if you were sitting in for an interview or something and you knew everything that it was said already and you're like oh yeah he said that twice he said it better the second time highlight drop in drops it in or if you have multicam you can cut really easily between all of that really fast or like let's say if you're a youtuber with an a roll

yeah with a roll i was and then wait then you hit your take and then you say like use that take and then you search that in the text space later and then highlight the take before yeah and it automatically that would be sick um they have an um and ah detector a filler word i could use it it's a button that you press and it detects all the filler words in the whole thing and you can just delete them all oh i, I think you need that. Yeah. They don't have, they didn't have any sort of like morph cut thing, so it was kind of a little. Just jump cuts every time.

Kind of jumpy. My sentences would just be like a caveman, like trying to talk. It was like a Phil DeFranco video. Right. If they had like an, I'm sure that they'll add this, like an automatic like morph cut type thing

to make it work a little bit better, that'd be cool. But yeah, that was pretty pretty that was pretty interesting wait are you gonna teach adobe ai when it's cuts out like ums and stuff to jump cut push in like yeah punch in like it's just stray youtube j cut yeah be incredible uh they made a background noise thing that i alluded to earlier that is almost exactly like the pixel one and i believe that this is all transformer based because it's all pattern matching because it's interesting final cut has a built-in noise reduction tool for any audio track and i wonder the difference between if not just how it works but how effective that one would be versus the one that's built i

think this one would be way better because it's transformer based i want to to try. Yeah. Yeah. So it seemed like it worked really well. They had this clip of this woman talking at some event and it was really windy and there was kid noise. They press one button. It gives you a slider, but it like enhanced this woman's voice who was like talking at this park. It made it a lot more full. It got rid of all the wind noise, all the kid noise. It was like a one button thing. It seems very useful.

I was thinking about Ellis's Ellis. AI video a lot during this. Yeah. Yeah, seemed really helpful. They also said they're working on text-to-video and image-to-video. So they showed a couple of examples where you could type in some text and it would just generate a video

based on that text. They also showed a sample where they dropped in a photo of an elephant and they said turn this into a video and then they played like a 10 second clip of that elephant like walking around yeah what was it doing because i'm imagining it just being it was kind of like that kind of warpy like it wasn't too much 3d it wasn't too bad it was sort of like kind of swaying back and forth it looked like a pretty convincing video clip oh god yeah we're getting

into some weird territory. I can't wait till one of them's like, this is how we can do it, and types in Will Smith eating spaghetti, and it actually does it correctly, and then we compare. That's the benchmark for all the picture tools. That's that video.

I have a question. Yeah. Is this going to work typically on device, or is it going to be some sort of cloud-based thing? I would bet it's cloud. It's probably cloud. Yeah, because I'm thinking'm thinking like using premiere just to analyze a couple frames takes our computers are not like they're not made for this type of processing anyway so i'm sure it's cloud-based i think everything that they're doing is is trying to do more ecosystem lock-in

just get you tighter into the adobe swing more subscriptions yeah more subscriptions um yeah but the big the main reason i actually went to adobe max um was not for this it was because i'm working on a video for the studio channel for like later this month which i'm glad that i finally get to say sneak peek i'm working on a video about this um but about this thing called the content authenticity initiative um which is a group of companies which is a ton of companies they have like 2 000 people in it now that are working on this encrypted metadata that basically will show you every asset that was used in that piece of content that you made, and it'll give you like a tree of like every asset that was combined to make a piece of content

and how those individual assets were changed. So if you have something in Photoshop, like a photo in Photoshop, and you make a bunch of adjustments to it, when you export it, if you have this content authenticity thing switched on, it will write that into this encrypted metadata that moves with the image okay and it'll have this little content credentials thing in the corner

that lets you know like hey this is legit you can trace it it's an open source thing you can like put it in the like in this web-based tool on the internet and see all of the changes that have been made to it and it's not necessarily I think that people keep getting this wrong. Like it's not necessarily that they're using this to try to catch bad actors. They're using it to prove the transparency of what you're doing. So for example, you could use this on video. If theoretically, if YouTube implemented this kind of thing if you if say final cut had a content authenticity toggle that you could turn on yeah it would it would create

this encrypted metadata on that is attached to your video when that goes on to youtube they'll be they'd be a little verified this is directly from marquez's thing, shows it was made by Marquez Brownlee on his computer, using Final Cut, using these specs. And so then if someone else uploaded your video in full to YouTube or whatever, then even if the system didn't catch it, it wouldn't have the content credentials thing on it, and so it would be obvious which one was real. Gotcha.

Yeah. So it's a interesting thing. I think most people think that they're doing it to try to catch AI stuff. Deepfakes. Yeah. And Adobe and Microsoft just signed on to this too. Anything that's generated through Adobe, through like Firefly or through Dolly 3 is going to have content credentials automatically on. through Dolly 3 is going to have content credentials automatically on.

So you'll always know like this was a piece of content that was AI generated, or this is a piece of content that was used to create other content that was like merged with other content. And it's cool, because when you drop a piece of content into this tool online, you can literally see all the different things that were attached to it. Yeah. And so one of the ideas too, is that a bunch of camera manufacturers online you can literally see all the different things that were attached to it yeah um and so

one of the ideas too is that a bunch of camera manufacturers have signed on to this so like leica and nikon and a bunch of these companies and the new york times and the wall street journal and twitter signed on this is before elon bought it uh so theoretically they're on it okay but the idea is that in a few years theoretically the new y York Times will say all of our photographers are going to use content authenticity initiative enabled cameras that have this encrypted metadata on it. So when we upload to our website or upload to social media, it says which journalist shot the photo. It's this transparency thing to see if it's been modified at all. Because there have been a couple new sites recently that have uploaded unknowingly AI-generated imaging,

and that's becoming a huge problem really fast. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's good to see that from both sides. It's kind of funny. They go on one hand from being like, look at all these tools to manipulate your images. I know.

And then on the other end, they're like, but also you really want to know what's been manipulated. I think you have to, you have to have the like, our stuff could really screw some stuff up. So we also need to find out how to not screw it up. There's a big irony in that. It's sort of like open AI starting this all and then being like,

we really need regulation around the stuff that we're doing. Yeah. But I think that it's, it's one of those things where it's like gonna do this no matter what and so if you're part of the figuring out what's ai generated and what's not then at least you're helping it it's an open source thing so adobe did help create the standard but they don't own the standard the content authenticity initiative runs the standard which has partners from like all throughout the industry. Yeah.

Yeah. So I just find it pretty interesting. And I want to make a fuller video on this. So I went to Adobe Max. I interviewed the guy that invented the standard. OK. So I just wanted to get his take on it and build out the video more fully. I think I kind of see it the same way.

Like, is this going to happen whether we like it or not? more fully i think i kind of see it the same way like this is going to happen whether we like it or not like technology is just improving so rapidly in this direction that we might as well get ahead of the whole ethics part because we're getting there yeah we have to be there there's a lot of money to be made in creating the problem and solving the problem you get both sides of it i mean let's be real it's money yeah it's the poison service the antidotes yeah adobe yeah so oh also they did use one more thing at the end of the keynote they literally said but we do have one more thing and i was like you guys are really gonna do that iconic but for a different group of people i know interesting nobody reacted to it and then he said you can clap now nice so he

used the other on stage straight references yeah that's the kiss of death for a presentation when you go you can clap that's tough but the one more thing was that they had they announced firefly 2 so it's basically a dolly 3 competitor okay um everything is way more realistic a lot better than the first one it looks like it's directly competing with dolly 3 i'm moving so fast yeah i know i think it feels like all of these companies are are moving at the same pace and then it's just like who's gonna make the first strike and then everyone else immediately follows afterwards yeah so yeah i mean you have access to firefly if you just have an adobe subscription so there's going to be a lot of stuff out there it was a very exhausting very fast pace

but very fruitful 24 hours i think it's going to help my um video a lot so fascinating yeah stay tuned for that video yeah yeah a lot of generative io channel subscribes a lot to talk about we should of course all right trivia finish it up with trivia trivia okay so the score real quick marquez with 10 andrew with two three carry the five five. Andrew has five. David with nine. All right. First question. I'm just going to get straight to it.

Garrett Kemp also co-founded another popular app slash search engine that wasn't Uber. What was it called? The logo was an orange SU. SU. SU. Hmm. Hmm. the logo was an orange s u s u s u oh my pen barely works got i just wrote f you marquez and i no i'm joking because i just keep happening totally the same person we both wrote super user yeah i totally thought Marquez wrote super uber it was stumble upon oh

my god yeah dude I legit thought maybe it's simple upon but then you said a search engine that's why I said don't get hung up on that because technically it's a search engine no I thought thought i stumbled upon the one where you just went to it and it like it gave you a random page out of nowhere just without you putting yeah i mean it was like also at google plus like every page had a god i am really i can't remember the names these i like yeah wow i'm really sad i didn't remember i had that thought i know that's why i gave you guys the logo because i was like hopefully that helps them somehow did not even connect the su and stumble upon because i thought earlier stumble upon was kind of cool and i didn't even think that was like low-key one of my favorite like oh yeah reddit maybe 2009 yeah oh that reddit website

what's that i'm trying the the like mechanics of stumble upon were interesting at the time don't you just go to the site and it sends you to a random and then there's like a yeah but then refresh button pretty much oh you're right it is a search but then there was also i think it i'm i think it also later turned into because they realized they couldn't capitalize a bunch on just total then i do believe it turned into like more ways of searching through. Question number two. I can hear you writing. Can you hear the words that I'm writing?

Question number two. I wish. In 2016, Microsoft acquired what is now the eighth largest social network in the world. I'm going to name the top eight. With almost one billion users, which social network is it boom but um eight largest social networks facebook threads oh yeah i should have said this is as of july 2023 so i don't think threads was out when statista compiled this list wow is threads technically in the top eight i guess i guess it would be they passed 100 million users in five days yeah i guess i three four five six damn don't know what other things are considered

social media platforms it would take me a while to stumble a copy. Stumble upon Reddit. That Reddit website. LinkedIn. We all said LinkedIn. And you're all right. And they say your endless questions are hard. At the top of the podcast, didn't I just say that out loud? Like, when Microsoft acquired LinkedIn and whatever. We talked about the purchase price for sure.

Wait, do you have the top eight? You said eight? I have the top eight right here. Number one. Can I try to name them all? Threads. In order? I might not be in order. I won't be in order.

Okay. But I think I'll get all eight. One, two, three, four, five. Or seven. Carry the four. Carry the one. So LinkedIn is eight. I have the top 10 in front of me.

Okay. So MySpace as well. Facebook. Facebook's on there. Number one. 3.3 billion mouths. Okay. Instagram. Instagram is number one. 3.3 billion miles. Okay, Instagram.

Instagram is number one, two, three, four. Twitter. Twitter is not on here. Yeah. X. Yeah. Okay. X is not on here.

Wait, what? Oh. No, they have a really small user base. I knew they did, but I still thought it would have been top 10. 350 million, okay. Yeah, that's not going to cut it. Snapchat. Snapchat is number 10.

Okay. WeChat. WeChat. WeChat is on here number five. Number one. Whoa. Okay. Should be number one.

Then I get into the ones that are not as popular here. Like, is Orkut still popular? Never heard of that. What the hell is that? It was really popular in South America a couple years ago, and I didn't know if it was still as popular. It's clearly not. What about Line? Statista.

Line is not on here. Statista includes two popular video platforms. So YouTube and Vimeo. No. No way. No, I almost said TikTok. David! TikTok.com.

TikTok, yes. And YouTube.com. Yes, that's right. And that leaves two more yes there's one on here that I they're counting Facebook Messenger as a separate

because if you count it's a separate app then you would also count WhatsApp WhatsApp is indeed on here Indeed's on there Indeed is not on here. No free ad reads out there. The two that you did not get.

Can't even crack top 10. One of them is only available in China. It's called Douyin. That's the Tencent. Someone look that up for me. They should just merge that with WeChat. Douyin's not a meta property. Oh, WeChat.

WeChat, no WhatsApp. Well, that wasn't helpful uh we just googled do you in and of course the google results are in chinese yeah it's not gonna help um the other one is not chinese it's telegram with 700 million let's users wow okay yeah i think I think number 11 is mkbhd.com Google Plus anyway yeah Google Plus RIP Orkut RIP StumbleUpon RIP Urban Spoon RIP

Superuser RIP but hey we got a lot of AI stuff coming up so that's pretty cool and that was all in our podcast today but that's been it for this week this episode I don't even know what y'all are looking at over there StumbleUpon and I tried to And that was all in our podcast today. But that's been it for this week, this episode. I don't even know what y'all are looking at over there. I'm not even going to stumble upon that. We've been stumbling upon it,

trying to make him download some weird app. Oh, I'm glad StumbleUpon. I think it's called Mixed. Kind of is this. They should make StumbleUpon, where it just like- Shark Tank idea. Close-ups of dudes' faces that were just shaved.

Shark Tank idea. Anyway, glad you joined us for this week. Hope you join us next week. After that one, I hope you stay with us too. Bye. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro-outro music

was created by Vane Sill. I'm using the generative wallpapers and it's frowny face and moons. Why? Because they kind of, did you ask it to be that? No, I randomized it. Oh, frownies is kind of sad. Wait, do you get to type things in or does it know it's

just emojis it's random it's frowny faces moons and small happy face do you get to pick the emojis no you can you can you can can you do a hotdog one Oh, now we're talking. Glizzy wallpaper. Jesus. A glizzy and a robot. Glizzy and police. And then you can do, what pattern do we want? Oh. Wait, how is this AI if you're just picking all of them? Well, there's a randomize option for patterns. Oh, yeah, do randomize. Oh, no, it changed the emoji.

It's the place that it puts the emoji that is AI generated. There's nothing AI generated about this. But you don't know where the glizzy is going to go. It can be anywhere. David's like, pick this. Pick that, too. OK, what do we want for this? OK, this. But you don't know where the Gleazy's going to go. It can be anywhere. David's like, pick this. Pick that too. Okay, what do we want for this? Okay, this. I was like, there's nothing AI. David has made every decision

that's doing this. Seems like it's your intelligence, not artificial intelligence.