Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Let's Talk about Pixel 6 Pro Bugs, iMessage vs RCS...and Wordle

Episode Date: January 14, 2022

There was a lot that happened this week but before digging into the serious news, Marques introduces Andrew to the viral daily word puzzle game Wordle. After that, they go over Marques elaborates on why he's no longer using the Pixel 6 Pro as his daily Android phone. Then they go deep into iMessage and RCS before having David Imel on to talk about all of the latest chipset news to come out of CES 2022. Links: Wordle: https://www.powerlanguage.co.uk/wordle/ Wordle taken down from App store: https://bit.ly/33xEdKu Pixel December update being pulled: https://bit.ly/33xEhtI Twitters: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/DurvidImel https://twitter.com/AdamLukas17 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ Shop the merch: shop.mkbhd.com Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Marques. And I'm Andrew. And we have a pretty fun episode today. We're going to talk about Google pushing for iMessage to accept RCS. That's been all over the place lately. David's going to come on later, and he has a bunch of chipset announcements from CES that he wants to explain that are important. You have a pretty hot tweet about pixel bugs that we're going to go over. But I want to start off with two things really quick.

First off, a little shout out. We had somebody tweet at me that actually got really close to nailing all the smartphone predictions. Oh, they made a guess tweet? They made a guess and they retweeted it at us. So, Sar10k, he had biggest Note 21 Ultra, MVP iPhone, most improved S21 Ultra, budget Pixel 5a. Pixel 5a is actually really close because, you know, we did give it to Pixel. Bust OnePlus 9, compact Galaxy Flip, which got runner up, battery ROG Phone 4, or it was 5, but you know, camera iPhone and design S21 Ultra.

Oh, that? Way closer than you or I got. That's pretty close. Yeah. Wow. Good job. Very good. I think that's the closest we've seen tweet back at her. And then my next question is what on earth is Wordle and why are there a billion boxes

all over my Twitter timeline? I'm confused. I get to introduce you to a game for the first time. So this is great. Oh, there's a bunch of story behind is great. So Wordle is a, oh, there's a bunch of story behind it too.

So Wordle is a, it's a word game and it's basically a word guessing game. Matter of fact, okay, if you just Google Wordle and you should screen record so you can see.

And I'll play alongside with you actually. Oh, you're, okay, cool. Yeah, so it's not like Wordle.com, but if you Google Wordle, it'll pull it up and it's a daily Wordle.com, but if you Google Wordle, it'll pull it up, and it's a daily word game.

So this was apparently just something that was coded and built casually for a friend by a friend. It's a five-letter box across. Okay. You have five empty boxes, and your job is to guess what the word of the day is. You can guess any five-letter word. You put in your five letters, and when you put guess any five-letter word. You put in your five letters,

and when you put in the five-letter word and hit enter, it will tell you which letters you got that are correct, which letters you got that are incorrect, and if you got a letter in the right place, it will be green. If you got a letter correct but in the wrong place, it'll be yellow. And if you guess a letter that's not in the word at all,

it'll gray it out. There's a game show that does this, right? Isn't it called like Password or something like that? This is probably a segment in a game show somewhere. Okay. Someone will help us out with that. So there is a bit of, this is the crazy part, is there's a bit of strategy. People like to, you know, spend an extremely long time debating what each guess is for maximum like word guessage you want

to obviously give it one or two vowels in your first word you should guess a pretty common word for your first word yeah like i'm looking now i thought it would at least start you with like the first letter so that's i think there's a game show that gives you that so this is just totally yeah totally blank five letter word so i have my go-to i have my go-to uh first word here that i'm gonna try and not make this too long and still entertaining for live on the podcast but i think adam's playing over there too because you've never played this right okay he hasn't either so we're gonna start here i'm just going to do brown because your last name is brown lee okay so i typed it in and so I hit enter somewhere?

Yeah, the bottom left corner is enter. You hit that. Oh, enter, okay. And so now what happens? So it's telling you you got one letter. Two letters that are correct, right? Those letters are correct. Both of them are not in the correct place in the word.

So you can now use that information to make your next guess. All of these must be dictionary words, by the way. You can't just guess like A, B, C, D, E, F. That's what I was going to say. Can you guess a non-word? Yeah, it's got to be a word. I need the Claire collaboration here because she would be really good at this. I also really like that in the keyboard it blanks out the letters that you have guessed that are wrong,

so you don't do it again. Super useful. Appreciate that because I would never actually pay attention and go back. R, O. So now you're basically using those two letters, put them in a different spot maybe and try to build a word around that.

One more wrong space still. So I know R can't be there. We might have to cut out some dead space as we like stare at our phones. Oh man. Let's see.

I've got a pretty good second guess. I'm really bad. I'm not somebody who did well on like vocabulary tests or English courses or pretty much anything

that had to do with school. I don't suggest it. But you just gotta know 500 words. So you can play fun, fashion, trendy games on the internet. Trendy Twitter games, yeah. You'd be bad at it if you didn't do well in school. This one, I'll explain a little more about it when we get to the end. So let's just get to the end.

Adam got it. How many guesses did it take you? Five. Okay, so this is the hard part is basically it's not even really timed. I started getting my first green letters. Okay. That's good. That's good.

Oh, so when I'm seeing this on my timeline, the more boxes I see, technically the worse they did, right? The more guesses it took them. Yeah. So that's the crazy thing. I refuse to like people with lots of boxes. The sharing mechanic was the brilliant part of this at the end when you guess it right

a little box pops up to share it and it's just that little grid of grey, yellow and green and you can see like some people's progressions some people get it really fast I think it's mostly luck so I'm just gonna let's just pick another word oh this has to be it right

oh wow how did i not get this okay hold on it better be this green green green green green okay you got it sheesh that took a while so the word was favor where are the day favor favor this is the wednesday word for those of you following, no, like we can't spoil that for anyone, right? Yeah, this is already come and gone by the time you hear this. But basically now if you hit share, you could share this like little chart. And so people have been making memes out of the little chart and drawing characters and way more. This is like a yes, yes, no kind of. So now you understand the charts.

Now you understand what Wordle is. The crazy part about Wordle is this, it's just one word per day. And so for a lot of people, it's like, oh, dang, I want to play again. Give me a new word. Let me try again. So people built all types of clones and copies and ad-supported versions of Wordle, and they made it to the App Store, and they were making money from them. Really?

And then they eventually had to pull them because they're all copies. Apple eventually did something about it, which is a little late, but better late than never. But that was kind of the story of the week, which is like, oh, yeah, all these Wordle clones. Part of the magic of Wordle is it's only one word per day. You can't sink your whole day into this mindless thing. It's not mindless, but that one word per day makes it special.

It reminds me right now of um like trivia hq or uh what was that called hq trivia remember it was like this phenomenon happened once a day everyone kind of played it yeah this is cool that's all i'm tweeting mine right now yeah this is this one's fun because it's uh any time of day they just refresh it every day once per day and you just get to play and everyone has the same that's fun claire's gonna love that i'm gonna probably play that every day yeah that per day, and you just get to play, and everyone has the same word. That's fun. Claire's going to love that. I'm going to probably play that every day, too. Yeah, that's a fun one.

That's really fun. Okay, all right. We all know what Wordle is now. Thank you for explaining that to us. Anytime. You're a gamer now. I'm a gamer now. There we go.

We'll be live streaming Wednesday nights 9 to 10 doing that. Wordle. Okay, so next thing I have on this list, you made a tweet the other day, yesterday, I believe, about your Pixel 6 Pro getting really buggy and that you can't recommend it at $900 anymore. And it kind of blew up. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Let me just read.

I'll start off by just reading my tweet and explaining. I mean, it was just a tweet sort of in the moment as I was thinking about it, but I'll explain. sort of in the moment as I was thinking about it, but I'll explain. I mentioned in the latest video, which was like what's in my tech bag, the phone I'd been carrying for a while was the Pixel 6 Pro. And this is something we knew,

which is like I've typically carried one of maybe four or five phones more often than the rest, just because I have, you know, like preferences with the software and I like the way they work. Pixel has always been one of them near the top of the list so i've been carrying pixel 6 pro since uh i guess since i reviewed it's one of the last phones i came out during the year that i reviewed put my sim card back in it and eventually i just got fed up over a slow accumulation of bugs that had me swap my

sim card back to the galaxy s21 ultra and been using this phone for a couple days and it's just way better so i tweeted from the s21 ultra my pixel 6 pro has slowly gotten so buggy since launch in october that i can no longer recommend it at 900 combined with the latest botched software update it's just been a experience. So my SIM card's back in the S21 Ultra till the next review. And it's true. So now I see this all the time where people will just like dump on a phone

because they have like two or three issues and they expect everyone else's experience to be the same. And I always see that and I'm like, okay, so what were your actual issues? So maybe if I have them, I can, I can notice them. Maybe I had a little, uh, maybe you have a small issue that I also had, but didn't notice. And when you pointed out, I'll notice it too. Things like that. We have access to a lot of smartphones here at the studio. So I have a lot of context. Um, so I figured what we do here

is I'll just share all of the issues I've had with the Pixel that have added up over time to have me switch. Okay. So, okay. The latest one that actually appeared on camera in the what's on my phone video is it just dips way under 120 Hertz often. So now I have the smooth display mode turned on. Pixel 6 Pro has an LTPO display that goes up to 120 hertz pixel 6 has a 90 hertz display that you can toggle back and forth but i i noticed pixel 6 constantly at like 60 to 90 hertz often at 60 okay just not a problem like 60 hertz is fine but i got 120 hertz phone for a reason it's supposed to be on i have the setting on and it's i'm just scrolling around and using a real quick pixel 6 pro at 60 to 90 hertz okay just confirming because yeah so that that was kind of annoying just because i had to you know i'd restart the phone and it would start off back at 120 again and then quickly start dropping frames again and it just feels like i'm

seeing all these dropped frames and that was not cool. So that's one. I know other people have felt the same thing. And just generally, pixels slowing down over time is not new. And that's been a thing we could probably talk for ages about. But that's one thing. I'm using Pixel 4 so I can confirm on that. So that's that. And by the way, so I switched back to the S21 Ultra and every single one of the things that I have a problem with here is like miles better on this phone.

So that contrast is exaggerated and that's what for sure you know sort of light bulb moment for me this phone is one year old and totally fine and probably will be fine for a while also what i noticed when i tweeted this is a lot of uh like iphone people came out the woodwork like see this is why you don't buy an android phone this pixel can't hold up it's supposed to be the best one. Ignoring the second half of my tweet, which is I switched to a different Android phone. Anyway, that's the one. Second thing,

the slow fingerprint reader. Pixel 6 Pro has that optical fingerprint reader at the bottom. Of course, no. It's not bad, but it's definitely not as fast as even other optical fingerprint scanners. And of course, the ultrasonic one on the S21 Ultra, which is literally like super fast,

extremely fast and very accurate. So I like that they're all accurate, but that was something that was just a little bit annoying weighing on me. It's a little slower. And then the December update hasn't come out yet, right? So the December update, which is what I mentioned as a botched software update uh started to roll out and then was pulled okay i never got it i'm still on the november patch and i specifically asked that because along with fingerprint sensor that was supposed to fix the bug where

if your phone dies you lose your you have to re you have to factory reset in order to put a fingerprint back in, which happened to a friend of mine of like two weeks ago. And he texted me and he's like, is there any way I can do this without factory resetting? And I was like, wait for the December update. He's like, but I still have to factory reset even to do that. So yeah, that's rough. I, I'd never heard that. So like, yeah. Uh, if you don't have experience with other phones with faster fingerprint readers, you might not actually care about that at all but because of again my context i noticed that it was bugging me um and then just a lot of bugs i mean the phone will like randomly just choke up and lock up for for no reason that's not something i can typically reproduce immediately on camera but

if you've had a pixel you might have had this happen to you also. The camera app slowly getting slower over time. So the way it opens, well, typically I'll double tap the power button and it'll just fire right up and I can start taking photos. And that's the way it was for like a month or two after launch, but then slowly it would lag

and it would take an extra half second to launch and then it would it would open but then it wouldn't respond to taking photos for another second or so and just that slowly starting to age really quickly pretty concerning didn't like that uh weird lock screen bugs i've had i think david has had this problem a couple times too where he pulled his lock screen down or he went to lock the phone and it didn't turn the phone off but it displayed the lock screen stuff over the top of the home screen ui which is like a really weird bug it's like you can see the guts of the phone it's very strange that that happened but it did happen a few times and also the notification pull down

sometimes it's transparent sometimes it's not oh i have a different notification pull down bug where if i have my phone locked for generally like a normal amount of time like i'm not actively using it so generally when i grab my phone after not using it unlock it and pull the notification down it like double swipes and then i'm all the way into settings and it's pushed all my notifications down and it's something that i've replicated multiple times before and it just does it all the time and it drives me absolutely because i like unlock my phone to look at a text message swipe down and it swipes past it and then i'm in my quick settings do you have to scroll back up i don't know if this is a setting on your phone but where you have like swipe down from the corner goes double swipe to settings and swipe down from

the middle just goes to notifications. I don't know if I have it. I don't think I've noticed it happen lately, but I have a video of it somewhere doing it. We could probably put it up on screen. So that's just. Yeah, that's driven me insane. Just one more weird thing happening.

Adaptive brightness on the Pixel is bad. And it's been bad for a while. Yeah, mine's pretty bad. I And it's been bad for a while. Yeah, mine's pretty bad. I think it's been bad since Pixel 2. So, and it's been bad again, like relatively speaking. I've used other phones that have really, really, especially with the Samsung,

really good auto brightness. And yeah, the Pixel, it'll just not dim itself in a totally pitch black room, which is weird. Another odd quirk is anytime I turn the flashlight on, the auto brightness goes all the way up on the phone, which is weird because I have the flashlight on, which means I'm in a dark room.

I'm not sure why you think I want the screen all the way up. So just another weird quirk. I wonder if that's just the sensor. Is it pulling from a sensor on the back or a sensor on the front and then it should be on the front that would be really funny at the flashlight but it's been bad for years okay so it's it's weird yeah it's a strange bug but adaptive brightness is just bad and again on the s21 ultra which has a much better screen it also has much better adaptive brightness um so that's another thing i have before anyone asks,

I have tried speeding up animations to 0.5x. I've done that on many Android phones. It does technically speed up the time it takes for the animation, but it does not make it smoother. And I've had worse than normal service. So this is another thing where like, we're in the studio,

we have these double pane glass soundproof rooms or whatever, like service is not great in the first place. But I've just noticed it being a little worse than normal. And switching back to the S21 Ultra, I am seeing it get back to the average levels. So all of those things put together. It's like, wow, the phone's slowing down. It's dropping frames.

It's got bugs. I haven't gotten the update. I just switched back to the S21 Ultra and just that was it for me. So I want to end it with this. I still think the Pixel 6 is a pretty good phone. It was $599. And the reason I bring that up

is because I think there's a very different set of expectations at $900. That's an expensive phone. Then there is at $600. I still think Pixel 6 overperforms, over delivers at that price, especially with camera quality, with the display being 90 Hertz most of the time.

It's not LTPO, so I haven't seen actually that bug at all with Pixel 6, but maybe with the software, with the Google Assistant, with all the stuff that happens with Pixel 6. And then at 900 bucks, there's an extra set of like fit and finish expectations, you know, like having little bugs

and having display just drop frames when I'm expecting 120 Hertz all the time. And it falls short on the $900 expectations. So that's why I specifically talk about Pixel 6 in my tweet and whenever I talk about this stuff because that's the phone I've been using and been disappointed with. The Pixel 6 Pro. 6 Pro. Sorry, 6 Pro is the one that's

Some of those things I would be pretty upset with if I had it on my Pixel 6. Adam has a Pixel 6. He said he hasn't. Some of them are harder for it to happen on the Pixel 6. Like you said you're seeing your screen drop to 90 frames, but the Pixel 6 is only doing 90 frames. Or what else did you mention?

Why am I blanking? The notification thing that David has been having. I did have an issue this morning where I had to restart my phone because the notifications just disappeared. So that was weird. Yeah, the notification shade, like once a week week will do something weird just one time just so just i'll pull it down and it'll be it'll be totally blank or like not or missing the graphics or it'll be transparent for some reason but with like gaps between the notifications for some i don't know

just like weird things once a week something weird happens there so i have something that's been happening on my pixel that i it's obviously not a pixel 6 issue because i'm using a 4xl but i want to see if you've had or something because it is i know david's kind of been having it but it's been driving me absolutely insane and i feel like i've had the phone for two years i feel like it's only been doing it in the last maybe three months um it's it all has to do with Google assistant. It triggers on my phone all the time. Absolutely. All the time. No one's saying Google, no one's saying the trigger word or anything. And I'll just trigger. And then along with that, when I'm in my house, which has Google homes equipped, if I ask my Google home something, it will always turn my screen on and start picking

it up. And then my phone and my Google home will basically fight over which one wants to do that. But like previously, and it's always worked flawlessly for me, if you're in a room where the Google Home is in and your phone hears it, it just ignores it because the home's going to pick it up. Okay. So on both those, so the first one, I haven't had the random triggers from Assistant. So on both those, so the first one, I haven't had the random triggers from Assistant. This is the sad part is like I miss a lot of things about the Pixel. One of them is using voice type on like everything and it being extremely fast and accurate.

So I haven't had that problem. My suggestion would be to retrain the voice model, see if that works. I don't know if you've tried that. Okay. The other thing is, yes yes when your phone is in the same room as a smart assistant signed into the same account they're supposed to decide amongst each other immediately which one should handle the request and i find that when i switch to a

new review unit and i bring it home to my house with the the speaker in it the first time i ask assistant something my phone pops up a little dialogue box saying did the correct thing answer this query and i have to say yes i would love if it asked me that so i suspect that's buried in the settings somewhere where you can either reset sensitivity or something it's just so weird because like we moved into my house in june or july and it worked totally fine and it's just been these last couple months that it's been starting to do this and it drives me wild seeing my phone like on the coffee table i'm on the couch it's a place i've asked google to do things a billion times before and i'll see my phone like light up and then sometimes my phone will be like sure turning off the lights or google home what does he say sure turning off lights another thing shut up i don't care i just want you to turn the lights off i think

that's another thing that just drives me insane but anyways yeah my rant yeah no a lot of a lot of questions have come up like my replies are lit i think i have like 1500 replies to that tweet everyone's like well what about this what about that um i don't think it's a tensor issue i think that was one of the questions is like okay well you've had all these issues with Google making their own ship. Did they mess it up? I think it's a little more software specific

because first of all, some of these things, especially the slowdowns have happened on previous pixels for me. I made a whole video like four years ago or something like that about kind of the same thing where I was switching from a pixel to a um about kind of the same thing where i was switching from a pixel to a one plus because of the smoothness difference because of how much it slowed down over time yeah um so i do feel like it's a little more software related but then yeah

like other people on other pixels have issues like this is something google has had a long time to hear complaints about and i wonder like do they hear the complaints i'm sure they do definitely what do they actually do about it are'm sure they do. What do they actually do about it? Are they able to, you know, push updates, prioritize software? Yeah. You know, those sorts of things are a question mark. So this is sort of a classic pixel story. It's happened before. I mean, it also came out with one of their bigger software updates in a long time. Like 12 is huge and totally different in a lot of different ways. So I'm sure plenty of things came out of that.

So you're bringing a new phone, new software, all your previous phones. There's a million variables. Hopefully they're working on it. But yeah, seeing like December update, December update that hasn't actually come. I saw Artem posting on your tweet that you can sideload it. And he said that fixed a lot of things. But like, again, we're nerds. We can sideload things. But like, again, we're nerds. We can sideload things.

But like the average people, that's not an option. Yeah. As far as like me recommending a phone, I think that's what it comes down to. I don't think I would recommend Pixel 6 Pro to anyone because it's still $800, $900. And if it's going to have all these issues and it still doesn't have that software update that fixes them officially, I'm not going to go, oh yeah, just spend the $900 and then try to find an APK to appropriately sideload this os update it's like well nope that's not a good idea so i'm gonna say don't buy pixel 6 pro right now uh but that's that's basically it

and that's how i'm feeling i'm stuck on pixel 4 forever i just can't make up my mind i might honestly wait till the s22 comes out and then get an s21 Ultra at like half the price. That's not a bad idea. That sounds like, especially seeing some of the renders of the S22 Ultra, it looks terrible. So yeah, it's like the stuff we're looking forward to for S22 Ultra, a lot of new hardware stuff, but also a lot of the same. So, you know, I have Android 12 on the S22 Ultra, which by the way, has the Material U sort of implementation from Samsung. I changed my wallpaper and it's like, oh, would you like way has the Material U sort of implementation from Samsung. I changed my wallpaper and it's like

oh, would you like to change the color palette? It still does that stuff. But like the software experience on S21 Ultra and whatever S22 Ultra comes out will probably be about the same. It's do you like the design or the new slightly bigger display or maybe they'll change

the charging speed. there might be some some hardware stuff you're interested in if not s21 ultra is pretty good phone it'll probably be discounted a ton yeah yeah all right let's take a quick break we'll come back and we'll talk messaging With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. This holiday season, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is

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where no one is left behind. Donate at camh.ca slash donate now from December 23rd to the 31st, and your gift will be tripled for three times the impact. All right, we back. Let's talk blue bubbles and green bubbles. Okay. Let's just talk about it. Because everyone else is talking about it, so we might as well talk about it.

Yeah, they are so uh i guess this probably comes back to hiroshi's tweet as like the beginning of why it's like sort of surfacing again yes his recent tweet because he tweeted at them like a few months ago it was actually after wasn't after like the pga tour that was something about the green jacket and then also about green bubbles. Oh, really? I think. I missed that. But I mean, the idea is the same again this time. So Apple's, I'm just going to read Hiroshi's tweet and we'll talk about some of this stuff. But I also just want to talk about like the whole lock-in thing. I think this might ultimately be like

a whole video actually, but we'll see. We'll see. So here's Hiroshi's tweet. apple's iMessage lock-in is a documented strategy using peer pressure and bullying as a way to sell products is disingenuous for a company that has humanity and equity as a core part of its marketing the standards exist today to fix this and that's a quote tweet of a wall street journal article talking about how apple's iMessage sealed its dominance with an army of texting teens. So basically suggesting that the standards exist today to fix this, RCS. Okay, so there's a whole regional debate about this because this is a very US-centric thing. We'll get into that a little later.

It's crazy how different it is overseas. I mean, let's just get into it right now, I guess. It's like, why is this an issue in the U.S.? Let me just lay the landscape of what it's like to be in the U.S. right now messaging someone. I think people don't understand that. Okay, in the U.S. right now, everyone's got a carrier. Everyone's got a phone number and a carrier. If I want to message someone who is, you know, I have an Android phone right here.

I want to message someone. How do I know I'm going to get to that person? Well, everyone's got a phone number. I can just send a message via SMS or whatever to that phone number and it'll definitely get to them. Everyone has a different service plugged into that phone number, basically a different app that receives the messages. And in the US, the iPhone is particularly dominant. And people who use iPhones use iMessage for most of their messaging. So if I use an iPhone to talk to another iPhone, that's their own secure encrypted thing. You can send messages back and forth. And there is group chats, and there's reactions, and there's stuff built into iMessage and all

these features that work when you talk to another iPhone that don't work when you talk to someone who's not on an iPhone. So, but, and to go off that, if you are not on an iPhone in the U S the default from all of these carriers, the app is, is just a messaging app that uses SMS or MMS. Exactly. And that is the way that just everyone has talked to for years and years in the US, like messaging apps are not a big thing here. Yeah, so when everyone goes, well, okay.

Well, okay, first of all. So the bullying part or the messaging part. Okay. Yeah, just to lay the landscape is like, okay, when I'm on an iPhone and I text someone else who has an iPhone, I say text, it's a blue bubble. It just works a certain way.

When I text someone who's on an Android phone or any other phone, it's a green bubble. And so if I'm in a messaging group with a bunch of other blue bubbles, the green bubble comes in it like sort of breaks it it doesn't work anymore everyone who's trying to like like certain messages is sending more messages to the person with the green bubble oh yeah because if you if you like a message from an iphone it sends a text to the android phone saying they liked you yeah and then does

the entire text yeah um so essentially people will avoid adding Android phones to their group chats because they want to make sure it stays working the correct way. There's a whole bunch of small features. Have you experienced that? Not specifically with the messaging features. I think it's far more for the younger generation

where this is, because when we were going through high school, at least when I was going through high school, we were all just using regular phones. Text messaging was the thing you did because it was all there was. There was only SMS because we didn't have smartphones.

And I can see now in our generation where everyone in high school and stuff has smartphones and maybe there's some sort of weird i don't know if the bullying is because it doesn't work as well for it's something similar to where there used to be past bullying of like you know somebody's wearing sketchers and someone's wearing jordans you know it's more of like an off-brand more of a uh what's the word a class it's like a classes thing. It feels more like as someone who hasn't experienced it.

Yeah, I haven't experienced it. I've heard plenty of stories and read plenty of articles. But there also are legitimate features that just work worse. Like if you send a video from two phones with iMessage, you get a high resolution copy of the video.

If you send a video from an Android phone to an iPhone or vice versa, you get this like pixelated, compressed mess of an unintelligible video. It's terrible. So I have family members that like, for example, my, my, my uncle, I'm just going to just ruin

the family group chat right now. My uncle, my uncle takes videos of my cousins playing basketball. You know, my cousin gets up for a huge block in his like little league basketball game. I'm like, that's sick. He sends me a video of it. I can't see anything in the video. I'm like, he just dunked for the first time. I can't tell.

It's a really bad video. I have a perfect example of this in my text messages right now. This is my aunt sending all of us a video of a bald eagle that she saw. Yeah, you can't see anything. You can't see anything. I don't know if like, this is what I get. This is the full screen video of a bald eagle that she saw. Yeah, you can't see anything. You can't see anything. I don't know if like, this is what I get. This is the full screen video of a bald eagle. And it's just a blur.

Yeah. So, so things like that. So Apple doesn't have any incentive to change this because they want as many people to use iPhones as possible. So if the story goes, hey, your Android phone doesn't work well with all these videos and messages and likes and things I've been sending you, the pressure is get an iPhone so you can join this little thing we've got going on. And that includes like FaceTime and all sorts of other things. But just as far as iMessage goes, that's the pressure is please get an iPhone

so we can include you in this group. And Apple loves that. Of course. I mean, it's money. Why would you not like that? So the lock-in basically is like nobody wants to leave the iMessage ecosystem because everything works so well. We're talking to other people with iPhones. We want everyone in, and no one wants to leave.

So Hiroshi saying the standards exist today to fix this is now we have this thing called RCS. Just to briefly super simplify rich communication standard. It's kind of like SMS 2.0. Rich communication services. Oh, thank you. Standard service. Okay. Rich communication. But the idea is it has a bunch more features. It has, you know, you can see read receipts. You can see if somebody's typing. You can see, you know, reactions, I think is another thing. So most importantly, encryption.

Encryption as well. Very important. So now if Apple's iMessage could support RCS, then all the new phones that are coming out today that support RCS would work with all the great things

that iMessage has to offer. And there wouldn't be quite so much pressure to get into the iphone ecosystem or to lock people into the iphone ecosystem that's the basic idea apple being a competitive very smart business will never do that right yeah they'll never support rcs and they'll never change you know supporting any of these things that make it really annoying to text an android phone yeah i think there's like so hiroshi kind of followed up on his tweet and like i found the tweet he posted a while ago this was in october um he so the android twitter tweeted that a green jacket is next for a green bubble King because Bryson.

Oh, Bryson DeChambeau. Yeah. He is an Android. So, and then Hiroshi group retweeted that group chats don't need to break this way. There exists a re a really clear solution.

Any all capitals RCS really clear solution. Um, here's an open invitation to the folks who can make this right. We are here to help. So that was his tweet in October, of saying like, come on, Apple. Hey, Apple, support RCS. And he's kind of cleared it up recently as it's not so much that he wants iMessage for Android. He doesn't want all of the benefits of iMessage to be on Android. But since iMessage already

supports SMS and MMS because it's the only way they would be able to talk to people on Android, RCS is the new standard. RCS has taken over SMS, MMS, or I think only RCS. RCS has only taken over SMS because MMS can do more than 160 characters. RCS cannot, right? Very nitty-gritty, but point is yeah it should allow it should just be like okay support rcs so we can continue to like move this forward yeah and not have so much but there's still parity there still are benefits to having iMessage so i think that's what hiroshi

is trying to say is like you know we're not trying to fully take iMessage we're not trying to you know you guys built that you did your great job at that. It's what it is. And there's a reason everyone loves it. But RCS is the standard now and can work better in compatibility with iMessage. And it seems like there's no reason to not allow it. And you can still have, you know, all the iMessage features that are available only on iPhone. Yeah, I agree. I think there are some other takes about this. I think Hiroshi's take is the correct take, but it is not a perfect solution. They're not saying, like you said, they're not saying,

let's make Apple make iMessage for Android. That's not what we're asking. We're just saying, hey, just add RCS support to iMessage. No reason not to. I think that's a fair take. I think that's totally fair. Now to shift perspectives to the uh to the overseas folks who are just like why don't you just use whatsapp why

don't you just use telegram why don't you just use insert other app here um we could and as a matter of fact a lot of us try a lot of us go all right try yeah a lot of us nerds yes we'll go all right well look mom you've got an iphone but right, well, look, mom, you've got an iPhone, but you can download the Telegram app. Dad, you've got an Android phone, but you can download the Telegram app. We all have all these different phones and operating systems and standards, but if we all just use Telegram or if we all just use WhatsApp, we're all fine. And we're talking and we're using all the features and sending high-res videos and it's all fine. We try this every time and nobody wants a new app nobody wants to also

use telegram for one group chat when they could just use iMessage for every group chat that's just the way it is in the U.S. it sounds dumb but that's just the argument would be but everyone can use whatsapp everyone can use this it's it becomes a thing where it's a standard it's the default and it happens because of carrier services and like trying to get people to switch off of it it's a standard it's the default and it happens because of carrier services and like trying to get people to switch off of it it's not like they're starting with it yeah so it's my my comparison right now is in the u.s which again is just we're wrong here we use the imperial system for measurement everyone else uses metric well that's a whole we i understand we understand i all agree with you on the temperature thing. Temperature kind of makes sense for people,

outdoor temperature, but in general metric makes a thousand times more sense. Oh, that's a convenient number. Yeah, it's a very... Yeah. I wish we planned that. But like it makes way more sense, but we're so locked into the imperial system,

it's just not going to change. There's a switching cost. It would have to start at the bottom and then take generations to finally fix so like the only way we're going to get off of sms most likely or rcs even is that like all the new phones when you get your first cell phone you have to go straight to like telegram or whatsapp and then in a hundred years that'll finally yeah totally change it's just not gonna happen it's not gonna happen because every phone that Apple ships will have iMessage sitting right there. Yeah and every Android

phone that ships or not everyone but most of them are going to be at a carrier service that's going to have a default text messaging application. So while it may seem like you know WhatsApp is the way to go there's a whole separate set of problems with like putting your entire communications infrastructure in the hands of

Meta which is that's enough that's a whole nother conversation but uh yeah i think the bottom line is there's a switching cost so it will have to get worse before it gets better and we'll take a total group commitment for everyone's messaging situation to get worse before it gets better and we as humankind are terrible at total group. Awful at that. I think we all noticed. We've noticed lately we're pretty bad at total group commitment. I do have one more argument, though, that I think could be the eventual way that sways Apple to finally allowing RCS. And I think it's people making the argument that Apple is a company that prides itself in privacy so much and that SMS is super not secure while RCS now has encryption. So it is actually when you're using iMessage

and you're sending to an Android phone, your messages are stored as SMS and not encrypted. So now you actually are making it less private for iPhone users. So basically as an iPhone user, it's either Apple lets RCS become the standard and available in iMessage, or you just tell iPhone users to literally never speak to Android users.

Yeah. And that's your most encrypted way of communication. I like to look at this from every perspective. And I think the one perspective that nobody likes to look at it from, but you have to include is from Apple's perspective. Yep. And the funny thing is, if Google was in the same position, nobody likes to look at it from but you have to include is from apple's perspective yep and uh

the funny thing is you know if google was in the same position i think they would hold it which is so funny but like apple you know google's tried many a time miserably many a time to make a messaging app to make what some might even call the iMessage of android like we've had that moment a couple times we've had duo and aloe and Hangouts and all these other things that have like come up and died basically in an effort to become the universal messaging app for everyone. And we keep thinking, well, if anyone can do it, it's Google. But like I was saying, okay, so from Apple perspective, Apple has this high ground, they have this position and they have this this invisible

lever that they never even have to touch that just keeps bringing people into using iphones yeah it's it's just they they only support a certain you know protocol they they work perfectly with each other that's all great why would we add support for others when it will actually make their experience better and make them less likely to switch to the iPhone? I agree in a totally super, super optimistic viewpoint. I'm hoping that as more things become like as they develop more things that are compatible with iMessage through only having an iPhone or Apple products, then that gap gets higher and higher. And then it's okay to let a little more in on the bottom level of it possibly by just literally letting RCS in for maybe like encryption purposes and read receipts.

And then maybe they'll do it. This is the most optimistic point of me and Apple's still barely giving anything. So like, let's not call me a shiller or anything i still think it's pretty ridiculous um i think there might be a way it eventually just allows rcs in because it's just going to be the default is there also is there ever a chance we just lose sms completely and rcs becomes the default uh just due to money eventually they'll have to do it at that point yeah that's yeah i hope so and RCS becomes the default just due to money and through carriers. They'll have to do it at that point. Yeah, I hope so. Do you think there's anything to the green being an ugly color thing for the green bubbles?

I love green. Oh, really? So I guess it's not a problem for you. No, I mean, it's definitely not a problem for me because I have an Android and I don't see that stuff. This is the one silly take from this that I've seen or a silly version there's a lot of pressure i've seen which is that like people just think the green is ugly and don't want to text green bubbles which i think is like there's a whole lot behind that which is like oh you have an android phone which

is like i think it's this off-brand of thing how can you not have an iphone but i think just the fact that it's a different color sets off this whole tidal wave of other feelings and things behind it you know i think that's real i love green and two in protest to apple we should change the mkbhd logo to green until they include rcs nope nope i hate that green wow shill it's such a it's such a harsh green, you know? I dig green. I love green. I love green. I like bright green. I like highlighter green.

I think it's all sick. I think it contrasts with a lot of cool things. It's weird because the iMessage icon is green. That's a very good point. So shouldn't they all be green? It looks like it, yeah. Shouldn't they all be that green? Maybe that's a 4D chess move by Apple to think like,

well, we don't think it's an ugly color. Look, it's our app icon. One day the iMessage logo is going to turn blue. No, it's not. That's not going to happen. That's too iconic. The phone is too iconic. The messaging green bubble is too iconic.

Making fun of Android users is too iconic. We can't change it. That's crazy. I think the green bubbles are too iconic. Everyone just knows that that's what happens when you text an Android phone. Could you imagine that's why they're not allowing it? Because it's just too iconic to have them as, I guess they could keep RCS as green still.

Wasn't there a headline that there's people, there's like Android users, I'm trying to remember the wording, like Android users get less dates because once you match, once you match on a dating app and you send the first message and it pops up green for whatever reason that's that statistically corresponds to less likely i'm sure there are a thousand variables that could go into that is it cause and effect or what there's happy coincidence on that is it the green bubble

that makes you less likely to secure a date or is it something else i don't know i mean like unfortunately we're really off the rails here but like unfortunately in the dating world there's a classist aspect of it and like generally iphones are more expensive so maybe you know it's you're seeing in a dating app that somebody's more well-off and that's more desirable because human race sucks again. I just picture that meme where someone's in the corner at a party. She doesn't know I'm using a $1,800 Sony Xperia PRO-I. Yeah, well, she doesn't know I'm using the Surface Duo. She knows, and that's why she's not talking to me.

Oh, God, yeah. Well, that's a whole other conversation. We've lost this one. I'm just going gonna wrap this up by saying i i would love to sometimes we just like wrapping a topic all up into one structured thing i think we should make a video of iMessage lock-in explained basically to include both sides to include i mean for all our international viewers who are like baffled by why anyone would use iMessage, like the entire perspective of it. Yeah. I think that'd be fun.

SMS, yeah, is probably very hard to explain to the outside world. It's going to take a lot of research and structure, but I think we can do it. I want to try. I think the easiest way to mention it to the outside world is like, you've all been your family's or like older relatives tech support at some point imagine now having to do that for just like the simplicity of text messages like all of the older generation and even our generation grew up on sms it's a thing that's there it's stinks it's wrong but it's there and there's not really changing it that's really

pessimistic but yeah well to end on a pessimistic note as always let's be right back tis the season to treat your family to the great taste of popeyes the festive family box is here to make your holidays brighter with all your Popeye's favorites. For just $25, you'll get four pieces of delicious Popeye's signature chicken, four tasty chicken tenders, four regular size, and everybody's favorite, four buttermilk biscuits. Hurry up, though. Like the holiday season, Popeye's $25 Festive Family Box deal will be over before you know it.

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slash waveform. All right, David, welcome to waveform. Let's talk chips. Let's talk snacks. Let's talk Tostitos. Let's talk sun chips. Let's talk about the whole ecosystem. No, we're talking favorite chip. Oh, definitely. So I'm gonna go. Actually, I thought it was one thing for sure but now i'm not so sure i was gonna say the red sun chips but i think i might be a sour cream and onion lays person lays interesting they're a little thin for me i'd say i prefer that just for you know it's usually a side of the sandwich or whatever yeah you just put it on your tongue and it sort of yeah decomposes I also like Apple Silicon chips.

That's a whole other chip. But yeah, we should talk about the newest chips that were all dropped at CES. You want to walk me through, I guess, some of the more important ones and why they're important and what's new about them? Yeah. So what's really funny is like this year at CES, a ton of chips dropped. And this happens a lot. But funny enough, it's generally at Computex and some other shows that these chips drop. So it was kind of interesting that everybody decided to announce some bigger chips. And normally, it would be like not insanely important news. However, Intel's 12th generation of chips, and I should probably just do this disclosure,

used to work at Intel, but, you know, whatever. So a few months ago, a couple months ago, Intel released their 12th generation chipset called Alder Lake. The reason this is important, and the reason the CES announcement is important, is because this is Intel's first chip design where they do the performance core efficiency core thing ah okay so it's sort of we've observed this sort of big little architecture in some other like obviously apple does it with the iphones and the ipads and

now with the new apple silicon ones yeah okay yeah so that's that's sort of why it's a big deal because i mean on desktop maybe not as big of a deal um obviously it's better if the efficiency cores can be handling the smaller subsystem tasks because that way you're not drawing as much power however the desktop chips can still pull a ton of power they can pull up to 250 watts at full load which is actually insane um because that means if you get like a full i9 desktop uh 12th gen chip you're gonna have to have like a thousand watt power supply if you've got like a yeah 3090 or something like it's crazy but um at ces they announced the mobile version of Alder Lake. And this is important, in my opinion, because M1 exists mostly as a laptop chipset standard, right? Like there's the all-in-one iMac, which has the M1, but there hasn't been like a Mac Pro only on desktop chipset yet. So you can't really, it's comparing Apples to

Intels when you compare the desktop stuff. But now that we have laptop stuff, it's sort of a bigger deal. So there haven't been a lot of like benchmarks or any really benchmarks at all yet that I've seen about these laptop chips. But there's different versions of them. Like usual, you've got like the H chips that are the highest end. They can pull up to 45 watts and then probably scale higher from there. And then it goes down to 28, 15 and nine. So it's different segments. It's like video editing laptops is the 45 watt.

Then you've got the like hybrid thin and light, but also sort of powerful 28, 15, 9. Adds a bunch of different stuff. PCIe Gen 5 gets cut out because it's not even available yet and they had to cut some stuff out for the mobile chips. But yeah, the biggest thing is the efficiency cores and performance cores. And they actually is the efficiency cores and performance cores and they actually got more efficiency cores than they have performance cores in like all skews which is really interesting

i think that intel thinks in most cases most people are going to be doing things that are not super performance driven right like web browsing and that kind of stuff which is probably true most most of the stuff that you do in between the heavy work on a laptop is a lot of that smaller you know web browsing little efficiency related things sure yeah right so they they've got the highest end has uh eight efficiency cores and six performance cores and then when you get to the lowest end i5 which they got rid of i3 now, they scale down to four performance cores. But the i9 versions of these things and i7 version of these things can turbo up to 115 watts, which for a laptop is insane. Yeah, because you think about like the M1

Pro and M1 Max, and even they don't use that much nearly that much power um and that's part of the reason why they they have such good battery life but this is a pretty big deal because i i think especially since they have more efficiency cores i'm really interested to see if intel-based laptops can actually finally get some good battery life because that was always the thing with with the macbooks yeah 100 and even more so today so i guess i have two questions one is it far enough into the development cycle that we can consider this an answer to apple silicon like an answer to the m1 chip and what they've done in laptops and now okay intel has gone to work and this is what they've been working on and here's our super... I would definitely say so.

I would say it's their first big attempt at answering Apple Silicon. Okay, and we'll see what performance and efficiency numbers look like in actual machines running these chips. But then I guess number two is a more general broad question because I've been so pumped about,

okay, we're finally going to get these big Apple Silicon desktops. The ratio of performance to efficiency cores is really interesting do you think there's a world where they make a super high performant mostly performance cores version and then a couple small yeah it's it's a little different because the performance cores and a traditional x86 architecture takes so much more power, right? Like the fact that even this one, which only has six performance cores can turbo up to 250 watts is like, you're gonna, you're gonna blow out your house if you had more performance

cores than that. That said, like, these can um go up to five 5.2 gigahertz uh oh which is insane yeah okay so they're still a lot faster and the general performance of these chips is supposed to be quite a bit better like 20 to 30 percent better 40 in some cases than even 11th gen okay so it is interesting i think um the biggest question for me is going to be what is battery life like even on the higher end chips because if they are super fast and can do like really good video editing and all of that stuff and they have good battery life that's sort of like what Apple brought to the table and why

everyone was like, holy crap. Yeah. They also have way better integrated graphics. Theoretically, there was 96 execution units up from 32. So it's like triple the integrated graphics. Whether or not that translates to performance, we'll see. But I'm really excited to see laptop specifically laptop benchmarks from these things just to see if they can stack up yeah I mean a six core chip turboing up to 5.2 gigahertz sounds very powerful so I mean if we get to see that sort of stuff translated into you know multi-threaded uh video editing apps things like I mean that's just I'm just speaking from a video creator's perspective but that's what I want to say.

That would be, that would be sick. Okay. I'm going to look forward to these. So Alder Lake chips. Yeah. All right. Okay. We've got Zen 3 Plus, which is an AMD thing.

It's funny. And everyone was kind of like, this is kind of weird because they're announcing Zen AM5 and like ryzen gen 4 in 2022 they announced its existence already so this is sort of like one of those like mid-cycle refreshes but it's like kind of weirdly timed because it's right before uh the end of the year or right before you switch over to Ryzen Gen 4. But it's a pretty decently big deal. You get about, I think it was like 30 to 40% better efficiency. So it seems like everyone's really scaling towards efficiency, right? This is a laptop chip too, mostly. so you're getting 30 to 40 better efficiency on like general overall tasks like browsing and streaming and that kind of stuff yeah um but you mostly saw these chips in laptops last year and they were just like crazy powerful with a lot of cores and got really good battery

life already so the fact that you're like making that even better i think there's a reason they called it zen 3 plus um instead of like calling it a wholly different architecture however the integrated graphics in this have been basically doubled in performance so you're gonna get like, much better integrated graphics. So if you have like thin and light Zen laptops, you can get a lot better graphics without having to pull an actual regular graphics card. So that kind of also feels like right along the same lines as like answering Apple Silicon. Like so the big advancement with having much better integrated graphics and much more efficiency was these machines felt really snappy and fast in pretty much any everyday regular task, and they seemed to just sip power.

They just lasted forever. And so without having some crazy power draw, you're able to just work for a really long time and not really think about battery life anymore, so that's super useful. So seeing laptops that actually have these new chips in them. That's always the thing about like, okay, the company has announced the chips. They sound really great.

Now let's see the rest of the machine built around it, take advantage of that, and hopefully it's got the right keyboard, the right screen, the right ports, and everything that we're looking forward to. But so far, so good. Yeah, and this is kind of how the industry moves, right? It's like somebody does something, they're the dominant player for like six months or a year. And then all of a sudden, their competition comes in and one ups them. And it's sort of this like push and pull. And with Apple, I think everyone was like, they're so far ahead. They're like two generations ahead

now. And nobody's switching to a similar type of thing. And obviously amd and nvidia or amd and intel are not making arm based chips for their laptops yet um but either way they're like existing architectures are getting a lot more performant when they need to be in a lot better battery life when they need to be which is kind of what you're getting from apple anyway yeah um the other cool thing thing about Zen 3 Plus is that it has USB 4.0 support, which is really nice. Because generally, you had to have a Thunderbolt controller in a laptop to be able to have Thunderbolt-type support at all.

And now that USB 4.0 is very similar to Thunderbolt 3, you're finally going to be able to get better docks for Ryzen-based laptops without them having to pay Intel to have a Thunderbolt controller. Nice. Good for you, AMD. Nice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then the last

big thing was that, well, there's two last big things. NVIDIA announced a 3090 Ti. They didn't give really any details, but like... But you can't even get a 3090 yet. I know. So hard. That can't even get a 3090 yet i know so hard that and the fact that like that 3090 already cost a bazillion dollars and is insane so what is the 3090 ti they basically didn't announce any details they like held it out at the end of a presentation one of those they're like here's the thing we're gonna do we're definitely gonna

do it you know it was funny we were working on this. We're working on this video script. And part of my rabbit hole digging was looking up the definition of vaporware. And the definition of vaporware, according to Google anyway, is a product that is advertised that is either a concept or still being worked on. is advertised that is either a concept or still being worked on and that might qualify i mean that we see vaporware all the time in the form of like you know ces announcements like the color changing car that you're probably never going to be able to buy that thing or even sony's car don't think that's going to ship yeah but a 3090 ti that we get no details about and no specs about, but they hold up on stage. It's kind of the perfect CES announcement. Like, yeah, trust us.

This is a little bit of hype. Feel free to write your headlines now. We'll be taking that free press. Thank you very much. Buy our stock now because it will go up when we actually launch this thing. Exactly. But yeah, we don't have any details details but 3090 ti will be even harder to get than the 3090 dude seriously not only will be impossible to get but it'll be impossible to

purchase because it'll be so expensive yeah is it do you know i guess there's no details but did it look bigger than a normal 3090 i guess it looked about the same size but i have a feeling it'll probably be slightly bigger and have even more power draw sick yeah i'm excited i'm excited if you if you pair that with like a um a 12th gen intel chip for your desktop you're gonna have to power supply just go ahead now get ahead of the 3090 ti with your power supply you need to you got to plug it into your uh f-150 lightning and then you'll be able to run it mobile gaming pc how has nobody done that yet how is no how is linus not built a pc in the back of an f-150

lightning yet new studio video dang all right that's a great idea ideas bouncing back and forth um and then the last last little thing is like intel announced a while ago that they are going to be building their own gpu and they basically announced that it is coming um this year so that'll be interesting because at least in the cpu space there's a lot of competition in the gpu space it's like amd makes gpus but they've never really been competitive unless you're a crypto miner i remember back in the day in like i want to say the mid early 2000s like 2008 to 2012 there was a time even earlier than that actually where uh you might consider getting an amd they were always the cheaper option than the nvidia card but um like i remember having to go in and upgrade my gpu to be able to play a certain

game and meet the minimum requirements. And it was like the AMD version of the GPU was 100 bucks more. Sorry, the NVIDIA version was 100 bucks more. And so I went with the AMD one. No regrets, but they haven't exactly been stealing market share from NVIDIA since then. It's always like they announced a new GPU and everyone's hyped about it. And then their top end one ends up being about the same performance as the mid range and video one.

And that's just kind of the problem. So it'll be interesting to see Intel come in. You know, I have no idea how much faith I have in that, but if their GPU team is able to work with their CPU team to like somehow make them more integrated and make them work better together that could be really interesting to look at but we'll have to see no real details but

fingers crossed again yeah more vaporware let's go CES that's perfect CES alright well there's a lot of good future future tech to look forward to especially in this world so we'll keep our eye on this sort of stuff again i'm so much of a tangible like i want to see it working type person so it you know all of this

like hype for me is just getting me ready for the actual products so we'll see when that stuff comes out but yeah yeah sick yeah so it was a it was a very lively CES, surprisingly, this year. I think that was a surprise. Even though nobody went. Yeah, only a tenth of the people expected to go went, but we got four times as many cool announcements. Yeah, I like the color-changing car. That was my favorite. I hope we get to see that.

Anyway. Anyway, cool. Well, that's been our first little, I guess it's not the first episode of the year but a little more January action there's still plenty more stuff coming up this year but that'll be it thanks David for joining me and for the breakdown appreciate

it see you soon alright so thanks again to David for joining us talking about sun chips and Lay's potato chips and all sorts of chips and we had a this is a good this is a good early to David for joining us talking about SunChips and Lay's potato chips and all sorts of chips. Oh yeah. And we had a this is a good this is a good early early season episode.

We got a lot more tech in the pipeline and all sorts of gadgets we're looking forward to. So sort of getting the gears turned on that. But yeah let us know

what stuff you're looking forward to for 2022. We'll make sure we get our hands on it. For sure. Yeah. Cool. Thanks for watching Waveform. Thanks for listening. Catch you guys in the next one. Did that too early. Peace. forward to for 2022 we'll make sure we uh get our hands on it for sure yeah cool thanks for

watching waveform thanks for listening catch you guys the next one did that too early peace peace waveform is produced by adam molina we are partnered with vox media and our intro outro music was created by vain still i know at the time when i have it i know when i've got it yeah like created by still you got this, baby. Bring her home.