Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Microsoft Leaked the Future of Xbox

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David had their hands full because a lot happened this week! First, Marques and David give some early iPhone 15 Pro impressions while they work on the full review before talking about an old Eve V tablet scandal and a new version of Dall-E. Then they talk about a fun Microsoft Paint update and the Amazon event that just happened. Finally, we wrap it all up with a huge Xbox leak that happened. It's a fun one! Enjoy. Links: iPhone repair pricing: https://bit.ly/9to5macbackglass Verge story about Dough: https://bit.ly/vergedough Microsoft Paint update: https://bit.ly/mspaintaddslayers Microsoft Xbox leak: https://bit.ly/microsoftleak Shop products mentioned:  Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max https://geni.us/7LuO6 Apple iPhone 15 Pro https://geni.us/qihGc Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https:https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What is going on, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. This week, we've got some banger new features in Microsoft Paint. Nice. Huge. I can't tell you how excited I am.

It's been so many years. The whole episode. That's all we're talking about. And that's it. That's all we're talking about. 37 years. Dolly 3 is also out in the wild. We had an Amazon event this week with a bunch of new products. There's also a whole mess of Xbox leaks. But first, we should just get to some Apple updates because there's some new stuff.

The cat's out the bag. We are testing the new stuff now. Some people have published their reviews already. Ours are still in the works by the time this episode comes out, but it's true. I've been testing the iPhone 15 Pro for about, by the time you hear this, about a week, almost a week and a half. Two weeks now?

Almost two, like a week and a half, I think. Yeah. week and a half i think yeah because it was uh the beginning of last week and now oh it's two weeks by the time it comes out by the time this comes out it's a week and a half it was it was wednesday yeah yeah a week and a half yeah it's wednesday anyway so that's a long week apple watch series nine i'm wearing the pink one for you video listeners you can video viewers you can see it for your audio listeners. You can, video viewers, you can see it. For your audio listeners, I'll just tell you, I'm wearing a pink watch right now. Nice.

Sick band. It's going well. Yeah, I've got the recycled band. The Nike, what do they call that? The Nike Sport Band, right? Sport Band, yeah. And it's, as we mentioned last time, made up of a bunch of flecks

of a bunch of old recycled sport bands, which is pretty cool. So no two are alike. They're all unique. I just, I'm not over the fact that it's a completely carbon neutral product. And I, I know we talked about this last time, but I just want to stress that's the entire life cycle of the product. So emissions, electricity, energy, materials, construction, packaging, shipping, energy materials construction packaging shipping and then all of the electricity used during the lifetime of the ownership of the device all of it is what they're claiming is carbon neutral i need

to know how they're doing that's so much it's got to be mostly credits right well there are some things that are genuinely easier like instead of using new aluminum, they can use recycled aluminum. And there's a bunch of pieces that they showed me from the housing of the vibration motor to the outside of this thing, the buttons. It's all like recycled aluminum. That all makes sense. But then it's just like how do you control all of the trucks that it gets delivered on? How do you control all of the Apple stores that you sell it in that keep the lights on 24-7? control all of the apple stores that you sell it in that keep the lights on 24 7 like how do you control the the grid that i'm plugging my wall brick into that i'm getting electricity from when

i charge it there's it's an enormous complex puzzle to like guarantee that it's a carbon neutral product for everyone yeah it's crazy funny because you can't create energy right so the idea that if you're charging the device through the life cycle of the product it's like apple couldn't create energy out of nothing yeah but they have some sort of credit that they're counting it against um and they had a very funny note too where they were like we managed to fit 25 more apple watches on each shipment to each Apple store, which means we're using less emissions. And like, that's true. That's great. They're also

just reducing shipping costs. Make the box smaller. It's still too big. I looked at it, it could be half the size of what it is already. You're 100% right. But either way, we're testing them. I have some early thoughts on the iPhone 14 and, sorry, 15 and 15 Pro, as you can tell.

Yeah, it's a lot of changes. They are very similar to the previous phones, the main updates being USB-C. I did have a moment. So I am currently test driving a car for autofocus and I'm gonna shoot that entire video on the iPhone 15, but it's the Polestar 2. And the Polestar 2 has a little,

when it got dropped off, it has a little cable in it. It's a little wired CarPlay connector because this car has CarPlay. Oh no. And I had that moment where I went to plug in the lightning cable into the iPhone and it didn't work. And I was confused for a second. And I was like, oh, right.

Is it hardwired in? No, I can unplug it, but I needed my own USB-C cable. Okay. So already in the car when I dropped it off was the last guy had a USB-C to lightning cable. He just left it there. And I went to go plug in the iPhone and it didn't work. And I was like, oh, I need more USB-C cables.

The amount of people that are about to be really confused when they bought the new phone, they ask their friend if they can borrow their charger and it doesn't work and they just don't know why is about to be very high. No, right? It's going to happen. No, it's going to happen.

A non-zero amount of people are going to think that something's wrong. I can finally help my Apple friends. That's true. Look at that. People who come over and say, do you have a charger? I can now say, I do. Remember how we were trashing on the adapter though? Mostly because it's $30. Yeah, that's the reason. That is why we were trashing on it. But there is an endless amount of

Ubers with lightning cables sticking out of them and like accessories with lightning cables. Lightning cables are everywhere. And so kind of like we do with 30-pin to lightning, we're going to have to go through a bit of a reckoning again with, all right, there's a wave of new iPhones out there and none of them can use this port. So we better make sure we have USB Type-C. I guess they already hopefully also have USB Type-C maybe, but like there's a lot of lightning cables out in the world at least 30 pin

only existed for the first iphone and the 3g and the 3gs and then they switched to lightning on the 4 right is that right i think so so like not that was only like three models yeah this has been many 4 had 30p I'm confident now I remember seeing it it fits the silhouette as the resident expert of the iPhone 4 from trivia you're probably right

but it's not a decade though you're right 1, 2, 3, and four versus four to fourteen that's all that's a lot of lightning cables the four s switch to lightning so somewhere in there no no okay was it the five must have been it was the beautifully designed iphone 5. yeah anyway i don't want to take up all your time so that's 10 10 generations i'm just fact checking yes iphone 5. okay so 5 through 15. That's a lot of lightning cables out in the world. Yeah.

And all I'm saying is people are going to need... More than 10 generations because they have the S's. Yeah, so they're either going to need a bunch of new USB-C cables or a bunch of adapters. Yeah. Just saying. Yeah. And they're going to make a lot of money on those adapters. You've been on the Max. Yeah.

Any camera observations with that 5X? Because I know've been on the Max. Yeah. Any camera observations with that 5X? Because I know I'm on the regular Pro and I still have a 3X and it's just early observations before I do my side-by-side on computer testing.

Very similar camera to last year. I think this is going to be fairly divisive because you go from a 1X main lens and then you have that 2x like basically sensor level crop that is not necessarily cropping it's just kind of using the center pixels and then from

there all the way to 5x you're basically doing a digital zoom of sorts yeah so i can we can maybe throw this in the video i have this example where i took a 4.9x shot and then a 5x shot and the difference in noise is crazy. Yeah. So that's, and I need to make a graphic for this, but from 0.5x to 2x, they are the same. It's optical quality, yeah. They are the same as each other.

Yeah. But once you get to 3x, 3 to 5. Or anything over 2 on this phone. So I'm just comparing these to each other. Okay. From three to five, this will perform better. Yes. Then as soon as you get to five, that will perform. Yes. So if you do a lot of deeper zooms than anything past five, you'll want the max. But if you don't zoom into five X all the time, then you might find that the max is actually a worse one to get. Yeah.

I did notice that once you go past 5, though, the quality actually falls apart fairly quickly. Oh, interesting. Like, I'm at 15x right now, and this doesn't look good. It's not great. Yeah, Adam looks terrible. Whereas if you look at any... He looks so good. Adam looks amazing generally, but he's very noisy in this photo.

What do you mean? Oh, that's actually, that was funny. Well played. Yeah. Any Android phone, not any Android phone, but many Android phones look much better than this at this zoom range. So the 5X lens looks pretty good. I've been doing a lot of testing around Manhattan with the 5X lens. And it is nice for like when you want to shoot photos of things really far away.

Something that was really interesting that they talked about in the keynote, they were like, iPhone is a very social camera. So we want it to hit these things. And I think by that they mean you take a lot of pictures of people and you take a lot of pictures of food and you take a lot of pictures of pets. And I think that's what they're saying that most users... Only cats and dogs. Only cats and dogs.

Not raccoons uh i think they were saying that's mostly what people use their phones for and so 5x is like is that still a social lens i feel like 5x is my kids doing something on the playground or playing soccer or something like that that 5x sounds like a great optical zoom or a great zoom level for like I'm sitting in the stands of an event that's my kid is part of or a concert a school concert or something like yeah the funny thing is all the examples that they showed for the 5x lens were like sports photography like people swimming really fast people running really fast and they were like cropped way in yeah yeah it's interesting it is interesting i i think ultimately we expect the 5x to come to the pro next year yeah i think that's like i think that'll happen classic thing that they do but i think samsung does a good job where they have well they just have another wide

wide 3x and 10x yeah so they're like look if you want 3x we got you but if you want deep zoom we also got i'm just really interested as if apple is ever going to bring a fourth lens it wouldn't make sense because the camera cutouts already square why not add another lens into it like i understand not wanting apple not wanting to do the samsung thing of like five and then have to put another lens under the already like silhouette they've made but the silhouette is there to have another camera. Well, it's funny because the idea of having four lenses on an iPhone feels really silly. But also when the first three camera iPhone came out, we made all those memes about it being like the fryer thing, the stovetop.

Yeah. We used to have one. So what's one more? We'll get used to it. But yeah. Battery life so far on the pros on the max for me has been like kind of subpar for a max it gets me barely over 24 hours which is like cool but the previous two maxes got me like almost three days yeah so i feel like that a17 pro is just generally using more power this is something i think we're

converging on because i've also tried to withhold judgment on battery until I'm at least a week in, so I'm eight days in now. And I have not had great days. I've had a lot of normal days, and I've had a couple of bad days. I have not had the normal couple of great days also. So I am starting to think, yeah, it is A17 Pro being more power hungry and being able to drop faster.

Standby time's still good. Standby time's really good. But it is more powerful chip that can eat power faster. Yeah. Like I went to bed at like 26%. I woke up and it was at 25%. You went to bed at 26%? Yeah.

That's terrifying. And you didn't plug it in? No, on purpose. Oh, on purpose. Testing. Testing. Is your phone your alarm? Uh, yeah.

You are bold. That's bold. Well, I also wake up naturally anything like for my alarm under 20 i'm not gonna risk that 25 26 well the standby time is good so i went to bed with 26 woke up at 25 so that was like okay i slept like six and a half seven hours and it dropped one percent but then from the time that i woke up to the time that i got to work which is like two and a half hours total it had dropped to 10 battery yeah and that was like me using it most of that time but i'm on the pro right now i just did a trip where it was on the wireless charger the entire time

it's 3 p.m i'm at 44 that's not as good as it usually is that's not it was on the wireless charger in your car yeah yeah there and back yeah and did you fill it up overnight yeah i started with 100 today is that what you took video with? Yeah, so taking video is gonna burn through like I like I said, yeah, it's a little tough Yeah, so I know I'm burning through a little bit faster than normal But I'm not having the great days where it's like, oh I didn't do a bunch of video I just had like a couple navigation things in the morning and then a normal day and I end the day with 70% Haven't had that day yet. So some will keep an eye on my zen

phone still killing it but i guess still i think that rules i love this thing so yeah sorry i had to just like throw that shot i'm really glad i can get through 24 hours it's just that compared to the previous pro maxes that were giving me literally almost three days yeah i think that the the a17 pro chip is just really power hungry while it's active so that titanium looks so good it does look pretty good actually that blue like i would love that blue not bad i really like it but just like yeah that looks so good the black looks really good they killed it with the pro colors this is the first year i didn't order a black phone i ordered a titanium one oh really yeah wow i ordered a titanium 15 one. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. I ordered a Titanium 15 Pro.

Are you going to switch to matte titanium everything? No. New limited shirt. I think I should have gotten the max for battery, but we'll see. We'll see. We'll get there. A day of battery. Because I like the cement dbrand skin.

It kind of looks like that. Anyway. Okay. On to a couple other things. Apple also, we wanted to talk about back glass repairs getting cheaper because they mentioned in the keynote, they had like an actual line in the keynote

where they said the word repairability on stage, which like never happens, but they really did it. And they went and designed the chassis to have a more easily replaceable back glass.

Now we see those new back glass replacement prices. They've gone from $500, $550 bucks on iPhone 12, turning in 14 Pro Max down to $1950 on iPhone 12, 13, 14 Pro Max down to $199 on 15 Pro Max. $300 price drop is like great.

I can't believe it was $550. It cost $500. You could get a Zen phone. That's insane. Replace your back glass with a Zen phone. You could replace your back glass or get a Zen phone. I'd rather duct tape my phone shut. Which is what a lot of people do. You see those things everywhere. Just put the case over

it and never take it off again. Honestly, yeah. Yeah, would you rather spend 500 bucks or just put a case on it? Put a case on it. For sure. 100%. That's like a $13 fix. Yeah. Well, yeah, apparently the new chassis is easier to take the glass off the back and replace it 200 is still pretty expensive for a pro max but 350 less is a crazy drop yeah i don't know what that's saying if just before it was way too expensive yeah but i'm glad to see some sort of improvement it's again it's one of those apple things where you're like still bad but thank you for not as bad. Just many Apple things. Other thing we have is just, remember how they announced new iCloud storage levels? Yeah.

We got pricing for that. Six terabytes is $29.99 a month, and 12 terabytes is $60 a month. Did they talk about having family plans on the bigger options? I did not see that yet. Okay. But to be honest i didn't yeah i didn't look that hard for it yeah i was just mostly upset about here that like two terabytes is 9.99 a month so like i would assume if you are going to jump to 12 terabytes

they should give you somewhat of a discount like yeah like 60 a month is so much make it 50 a month this is the exact same as just paying for the two terabyte yeah it's actually more expensive by three cents oh you're right 999 times three is is 29.97 you're right and six terabytes is 29 oh that's so funny so it's actually more expensive to buy the six terabyte? That's weird. Interesting. That's very funny.

I'm just saying as someone who has basically no blood family, but many different technical families, I would love to be in a family plan with this. Yeah. So 12 terabytes. People wondered if we held back anything we said at the Apple event. The only thing we did was David talking about his family in front of them to see who his family were.

Hold on. The 6TB is $29.99. The 12TB is also double but more expensive because it's $59.99 instead of $59.98. So what is that? $0.06 more expensive? Well, than the 2TB. But if you just doubled up the

6TB and got two 29.99 that was supposed to be 59.98 but it's 59.99 come on apple that extra send man very strange okay well that's out there yeah i think that's about all we have for apple stuff stay tuned for the reviews the reviews are in the works we've got a lot to say about these phones and also the watch and the double tap under Underrated, man. I just do this all day now. All day. And Ellis started using an Apple Watch.

No, I didn't. Interesting. It's not true. I started using it because I wanted to walkie talkie everyone. It was fun. We were shooting stuff. Yeah, that was fun. Because in Ohio, Vin and Brandon were walkie talking. And I was like, wow, that's the most essential tool on a shoot.

And yeah, so I wore it for the trip, and then I got home, and then now I'm still wearing it. It's crazy how that happens. I've got this beautiful watch box in my apartment that now just goes unopened. It's honestly a travesty. Is the walkie-talkie an ecosystem feature? Kind of.

I believe so. I mean, I had to to watch is at the event so that I could walkie-talkie you can only walkie-talkie on a lot to do anything you chose no I was not I was slacking you guys and you were replying and I just go Adam this is David over and he's like then one watch no way you're not wearing your watch right now i'm wearing my casio 1200 for the thousands of people that have asked me what this watch is i was modified casio 1200 with a steel case and some filters sick all right let's talk about this monitor company because you have this in the notes

here and i i'm like familiar with i think we saw the monitor and they made a laptop it was like a surface killer. Yeah. It had like an Alcantara case. It was basically, yeah, it looked just like a surface. Yeah.

But what is going on with them now? It's Eve. If you remember, it was from 2017. I believe that was around when the tablet was out. Yeah. It was like a tablet and it had to that like Alcantara like keyboard with it. We got the tablet.

We never really did too much with it um and then they started selling monitors i don't want to go too deep into it but um sean hollister from the verge i think his name is he just did like this incredible write-up about how eve which is now a company called dough i believe d-o-u-g-h am i pronouncing that right right yeah like don't don't might be the worst tech name I've ever heard. They're just like, we make your money. That's what I say. Yeah, we're stealing your dough is how I...

So they rebranded. They've had a bunch of monitors they've announced but didn't really ship. And now they're still releasing new ones, but still have old ones that aren't really shipping on the line. And there hasn't been a lot of refunds. And then they started a new refund process, but those that aren't really shipping on the line and there hasn't been a lot of refunds and then they started a new refund process but those people aren't really getting refunds but sean has been covering it for a long time and he wrote this like really really

great verge article that we'll list in the bio and the show notes and like i highly suggest reading it and if anyone out there has dealt with this company and maybe is having an issue with refunds, go read that article and maybe you'll have a better chance of getting something back. But like it feels really shady, especially for a company that apparently just buys panels from off the shelf. And you could probably get the same panels from any other reputable monitor company. So it's a weird, weird spot. Definitely read it. It's long, but it's really well written. Is it just that they're

stealing people's refunds like what is happening well they're not giving refunds and then some of them are giving refund dates past when you could already like um do a credit card uh like refund or charge back so like it's just a lot of weird stuff of them promising that they're going to give money back but not giving money back and then also taking money and not shipping things and like still releasing new products and trying to get away from it but still being really shady and it's because they're taking too long to ship the things people already bought yeah or just like not shipping them in general or not yeah wasn't the tablet thing like an indiegogo back in like 2000 i think that was like definitely 12 or something that was like an og like 10 years ago some sort of Kickstarter thing.

And now they're just doing like pre-orders on their own site. But I think some of those, I think there was also. I remember the original Indiegogo for the tablet. Like it was supposed to be like 3X the specs of the Surface tablet, but it was like, it looked exactly the same. And it took like two years to come out or something. I remember we got that. And then I swore they offered to send us

the monitor and i forget if we said yes or no i just don't remember ever hearing from them again and then i didn't know they renamed their company i thought they just went i don't know they had a sick red and black logo though so like no it's probably definitely send them your money yeah um dang but yeah it it seems like i think everyone should read it just because it's a really good article and especially if you've ever dealt with them before and are looking for money back but way more importantly our next article yes microsoft paint is adding layers and transparency this is so sick this is the best thing that's happened in 2023 um story of the year yeah it is this is story of the year so i mean layers are huge if you've

anyone's ever used photoshop i hope so um but it like completely changes how paint works because paint was very much a like i do an action and that action is basically permanent now yeah um and then not only can you now use transparent pngs and save as a transparent png but it also has a tool that looks like it will eliminate the backgrounds and like cut a subject out and either save it as a transparent png or if you do it on a top layer it'll show the layers underneath should i be making thumbnails do you guys know when paint first came out no you want to guess oh god what version of windows didn't have 94 do you want to guess marquez what God. What version of Windows didn't have paint? I thought it was always had paint.

Do you want to guess, Marques? When did paint come out? When did paint come out? 91. Are you? 1985. Really? Yeah.

Wow. This is a 37-year coming situation. Somewhere out there, there's a paint diehard who's just like, 38 years. This is the best day of his life. Or he's like i hate this new update it ruins my pain it ruined everything i want to note do you remember when um microsoft thought that like augmented reality was going to be the future back in like 2017 or so and then like hp and compact and lenovo made those like microsoft 3d like ar headsets so So then Microsoft updated Paint to make it they have a Paint 3D now

that you can do augmented reality paint in. And it's just very funny that that came out before... PSG players! That's actually incredible. Hey, priorities, man. They're the only thing you think.

Well, maybe they were just too early, now the you know the uh vision pro is all ar stuff so true we'll be making layers and paint and drawing things in midair but yeah i think this is your new thumbnail oh wait no you use a mac that's probably gonna be kind of hard we should make we have to make a virtual machine yeah just for having paint on my mac that's right to make thumbnails that's how you do it that's what i'm gonna do it's a pro gamer move absolutely we definitely have to have tim use this though and make a thumbnail in paint i think i don't mind that yeah uh okay last last thing before the break dolly 3 is about to come out. It just got announced. Oh, my God. Dolly is kind of the thing that started this whole AI explosion in the public eye. I remember the week that we found out about Dolly 3, like a couple Twitter posts.

And it was when Dolly 2 had just come out. We were like, what is this generative AI? What is generative AI? What is a large language model? What is all this stuff? And we just dove into is all this stuff and it just like we just dove into learning about this stuff that was when we had to like write up what we wanted and send to them and they did the like the like prompts for it and then we got a bunch

of pictures from that like that's how now you can just like yeah go do it whenever you want so at the time dolly 2 2 looked incredible, right? Comparatively to what we had had before. Compared to Dolly 1, compared to anything because we had no idea that you could type in words and get a picture out of it. But now, all of this stuff is coming out mid-journey is insane now. So Dolly 2 looks like child's play

at this point. But now Dolly 3 is coming out. And there's a lot of different stuff about Dolly 3 that coming out and there's a lot of different stuff about Dolly 3 that makes it updated it's got much more art to work with so it's just better in general it works with

ChatGBT so it's like embedded inside of ChatGBT for ChatGBT Plus members and the funny thing is you ask for an image but if your prompt is too simple chat gbt will expand your prompt to make it more complex so that dolly is better at doing it because it works better with more words yeah he's better at using the ai tool than you yeah oh yeah because

why do they even need me at this point it's just you just type in like you're just sitting there and words are just coming you just open the program and it does it for you yeah eventually you're just gonna open it up and just look at it hit enter and it's gonna go i got you i got you uh it also understands context much better than before i think previously it had trouble with things like the idea of writing something. Oh, it was horrible at that. A teddy bear riding a horse. Oh, riding. Riding.

Oh, I thought you said riding. If you ask for a stop sign, it makes a stop sign, but then it says soap on the stop sign or something. You can't write anything. I'm not sure about that. Okay. That would be interesting to find out. It's theoretically going to come out in early October, so I'm very excited to try it. And also, it allows artists to opt out of OpenAI using their art,

which I'm not really sure where they're sourcing all the art from and how you're going to be able to label your art as do not use. Yeah, I could see it as my account on DeviantArt. Yeah, like I opt out of this and this is where my stuff's posted but that doesn't take away from where your stuff's already stolen on the internet and if it's pulling it from there so that still seems like a tough thing to do yeah i have no idea maybe there's i could see something in the future of like when you're creating something in the metadata it has a like i opt out of this being used for whatever but that's supposed to be a thing that's that's

a thing that's being built right now yeah is that a thing that's being built for i opt out or is that a thing that's being built for this is ai generated art and in the metadata shows that it's made by there's a thing they're working on um it's a whole consortium with a bunch of the camera manufacturers and like adobe where within the metadata there's an encrypted level in the metadata that changes every time you've made an alteration to the image it leaves a tag on when that alteration was made and what it was and if it was created by ai it will say i generated as well yeah so i believe so yeah i think that's different though than from like i make something and in the metadata there's something where it's like i'm opting out of this ever being like pulled from me like i don't raped

yeah yeah i don't know i don't think that's the thing anyone's i don't think it's in the works but that would be the best way for that to because i don't know how do you how do you retroactively remove your contributions that's the thing yeah it seems like they already have it trained on something yeah i like remove what I already have? Let's let them opt out after we have trillions of images. It's just an awkward conversation because OpenAI is getting sued from every direction right now.

From people being like, I did not consent to you using my stuff. And now they're trying to be more proactive about it but it's like the damage has kind of already been done. And now just saying we will use your stuff unless you opt out is kind of strange so i don't know forgiveness not permission yeah um but no one forgives you and all yeah uh currently they have no plans uh that have been laid out to the public as to have a free version of this which is interesting um kind of crazy because you know they

just dropped uh dolly 2 they just dropped chat gpt now everything is kind of starting to go behind a paywall um which is interesting for a company that was originally non-profit and is now a capped profit company yeah yeah none of this somehow shocks me at all yeah it's kind of the natural progression of capitalism. Do you think we'll continue to see the newer versions behind the paywall and then the version gets dropped out of the paywall into the free version? I don't know. That's probably the easiest way of doing it.

They could do that, but I think they're keeping the public access at a much lower tier just because AI regulation hasn't caught up yet. And they don't really know what they're doing with that. That's why it's not all the money they want to make. Yeah. Right. That's the reason. Yeah.

Yeah. So anyway, um, chugging along, chugging along. Pretty soon Dolly will just make whole waveform episodes. That's true. It's really not that far off.

I'm excited. I said in the Dolly video, I was like, first it makes pictures, then it makes short animations, then it makes videos, then it makes videos then it makes YouTube videos then it makes movies it's just yeah we're just chugging along that path like yeah one rung of the ladder at a time slowly we're getting it was less than a year ago that this came the first one came out well Dolly too but yeah wow isn't that crazy yeah yeah Insane. Tim with the new paint versus

ChatGPT with Dolly. Man, Ellis must be a huge AI fan because he just keeps putting thumbs up over there about all this talk. Thumbs down. Big thumbs down. Very sad. Do you guys see the Adobe thing? The Adobe Stock thing? What is it? About how a bunch

of artists were complaining that if you search their name on Adobe Stock, it doesn't serve their profiles. It serves AI art generated to be in their style, even though they all opted out of the training thing. Thumbs down. That's the worst possible thing. This is the weird thing about AI,

is you can just kind of dance around the stuff that they're blocking with like different semantics. Here's another one just to make you guys with what's the phrase quiver in your britches or whatever. There's like a long standing agreement between Spotify and all the major record labels that Spotify isn't allowed to hold music copyrights. isn't allowed to hold music copyrights because as soon as they hold the copyrights to music they can push those records before the record labels records and just not have to pay anyone royalties on music that they own right um uh so but if they just start generating ai music they don't even need to copyright it they can just not pay anyone period oh interesting so there's like a huge incentive for them to like fill up their playlists with ai generated music that is interesting because then you know they just keep all that monthly uh yeah those monthly fees it makes me think like one day it's just gonna start

infiltrating my spotify weekly like at this point if you hang around tiktok or YouTube long enough or even Instagram long enough, you might, without even knowing it, stumble past an AI channel, an AI character. And you might not even know it's AI, but it's just another thing or a person in your feed and you don't even realize it. The VTuber, whatever. We've been AI for weeks. It could be me. It could be you. But now it could be in your Spotify for you page and you wouldn't even notice or maybe you will notice maybe it's horrible music but we'll figure it out eventually that's interesting we should take an ad break before i get any more sad we should we should take an ad break that is a good idea andrew but before

we take an ad break we should do trivia uh it's so much better yeah that's the normal trivia volume and we're back to it was so loud so first question dan mccabe led development on the graphics for something called microsoft chart which was a software that was eventually incorporated into microsoft excel what other piece of famous Microsoft software did Dan McCabe help to create? It's a very famous name. At least I can name Microsoft softwares for this one.

I can take a guess on this one. That's how I'm treating this question. Name a piece of Microsoft software. And also to the listeners and viewers, there's a Microsoft event tomorrow at the time of recording, so we're not talking about's a Microsoft event tomorrow at the time of recording, so we're not talking about that because it is tomorrow at the time of recording.

But at the time of viewing, it is yesterday. Here, let's insert what we think might happen. Surface for you. Blah, blah, blah, Surface. Blah, blah, blah. Sorry Panos isn't here with us anymore. Blah, blah, blah. More Surface. New Zune. Bing is pretty cool, right? Remember Bing? This episode is brought to you by HelloFresh.

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like private or public event because it's live streamed, but there's no embargo. The event is private, but the announcements are public. Okay. Yeah. It was very weird. I was watching the stream today you guys were shooting something so you missed the beginning of it then you missed the rest of it you caught some of the end of it david yeah um it's an amazon event it's like every other amazon event where they announce a bunch of things go for it we made a new home device and we put Alexa in it. We made X and put Alexa in it.

Then we made another one and also put Alexa in it. Okay. I like to think of it as the clock and the toaster. That was fun years ago. That was fun. I don't think they did anything as wild in this one. No Astro Bot 2. Did they?

No Astro Bot 2. They did show a tile of Astrobot right from the start and i was pumped and then they never mentioned our little buddy again and by buddy i mean little demon spawn that is like biting my ankles all the time i also feel like we're in in this tech niche it's another one of those ones where we probably don't know as many people that use alexa versus google assistant and siri as home device things. Alexa is way more prevalent, though, with a lot of people. It is. A lot of people that I know that aren't as techie, that's what their home automation is, is Alexa.

In 2020, according to The Verge, 25% of U.S. households had at least one Alexa device. Wow, really? Of all households, so not just households with smart assistants. That's crazy. It was just like any household. And that that's 2020 geez so that was like six months ago did did they have stats on compared to google assistant or siri one moment oh well while you look at that um the the first thing they mentioned in this was the echo the alexa show 8 the main reason i'm bringing it up here is because the way they described it, I thought, was a little confusing.

Okay. And I put a picture of it here, and David and Marques, you guys missed this part. I want you to describe what this looks like. This one right here? Yes. This, to me, looks like a small children's tablet. Oh, woof. Okay. You know, like a seven-inch...

That's not how they described it. Like a seven-inch tablet with thick just like a small like a seven inch tablet with thick bezels because you're gonna give it to your kid but then it like has a stand on the back which probably has a speaker in it and now it's on a kitchen table and it's got a video call on it so most likely is like a nest home hub right something like that yeah they would not try to hide this camera at all no no no so it is it is similar to like a nest home hub it's a it's an alexa product that has a screen where you can do some stuff and it does do some cool things i'll mention that in a minute

but right off the bat the way they described this was edge to edge glass what i hate when they do and i was like have you heard other people use that term before we're used to edge to edge screens which is what we anyone actually cares about most things have edge to edge-to-edge screens, which is what anyone actually cares about. Don't most things have edge-to-edge glass, but the screen is just way smaller? Yes. Who cares if it's edge-to-edge glass when it's got this dummy thick bezel on the side of it? Yeah, this is something we've... I've heard that before, like it's edge-to-edge glass, and then you look at it and you're like, oh, I see why you said it that way,

because it's not edge-to-edge screen, but the glass is corner to corner neat don't really care that really that made me mad i thought that was a very deceiving way of describing this especially because like these bezels are brutal and i'm not saying that the like nest home bezels are good those are pretty bad also pretty thick but like calling this edge-to-edge glass felt dishonest. One thing I did really like about this though is one of the features it has on it is when it's just being a smart display, it has a sensor to tell how close you are to it,

which will actually change the UI of what's being displayed, which I think is a neat feature. So like if you're far away, it's only going to show possibly one thing with very large text and then the closer you get the more things that will show up on the ui with smaller text because it knows you can see it that's kind of cool um i think that's really neat i wish my i don't think my nest home hub has that no but um i think that's actually a really really cool idea give it a week it also has like they talked about generative ai and alexa like

within this and then directly after this and i know david has a lot to talk about it mostly from what i saw was like their examples were hey what's the score of my favorite football team and it knew what their favorite football team was and that's told them the score that's just context or con no no no they were like alexa write me a poem yeah no no there was there was definitely like generative or or they had one of them had alexa he was like i don't remember the exact context but it was like alexa i like broke my foot or something i can't go to my friend's birthday and yeah alexa was like bet and then he was like write write the text that says no go no show yeah. So definitely generating something. They're updating with generative AI.

I have many thoughts about this. Shoot. Okay. It'll be more interesting than the Amazon event. I have like 20 versions of a script that I've been writing ever since this AI stuff started happening because it keeps changing really fast. So I keep changing the point of the video.

Yeah. You first told me about that script like in 2021. Literally, yeah. One of the versions of the video. Yeah. You first told me about that script like in 2021. Literally, yeah. Yeah. One of the versions of that video was called Natural Language Computers. And it's sort of about how the way we interface with devices is going to become just a lot more just natural conversation. And this reminds me a lot of when Adam and I were at Android Authority in like 2018 or

2017, 2018, and Google Assistant first came out. And one of our bosses thought he could just talk to it by going like, hey, gee, I left my car at the store and I need to, how do I go get it? And it would just be like, what? Yeah. And at the time, for a very long period of of time you've had to use these keywords these prompts that specifically it listened for so that you had to know how to talk to the computer exactly but the big update that they're making now is that that's sort of starting to go away

you're able to just sort of talk about things in a more natural way and it understands the context of what you need and what you want and it will trigger commands based on that so it's not like they're hard they no longer really need to hard code in like these very specific commands that you're making it understands your context and it can like provide functions based on that yeah and that's like a very nice futuristic way to interface with computers. A really good example that was the Amazon Fire Stick and how somebody was showing off how to start searching for a movie by like some more simple things that was like, I want a movie about sports. But then when it would bring up results, it was a I want one that I don't have to pay for. I want one that I haven't seen yet.

And then even more so, they could say like me and my family really like video games, too. Is there one that could like coincide with sports and video games or stuff? And he was asking some like pretty complicated things you would never expect to ask, like just a Google assistant or a simple. Especially not Siri. Especially not Siri.

Yeah, can you imagine? Yeah. Yeah. I have like my, I can attempt to make this sentence in real time. My thesis on accessible high-end computing, like Star Trek has always been, this is like my, anyone who's watched Star Trek has always realized like, oh, they have a lot of really good ideas in here.

Even though they're not real, they have like a lot of things that actually turn out to be true eventually. Yeah. I don't think I can name all the planets but also on that note apparently the echo show 8 looks just like something from star trek else was very amped about that i can believe that but like you know the communicator people like you know now we have we have smartphones yeah we've we've gotten a lot of things from star trek and one of the things they always had was computer yeah like they just talked to the computer and which is why amazon added it for

the echo yeah you can say hey computer yeah exactly yeah but the idea at least was like if you're watching this show you're thinking wouldn't it be nice if like i could just ask my computer to do things and it would understand me and as of right now or as of right before ai you need in order to tell a computer to do something you you needed to either learn the UI of the software or learn to code to be able to talk to the computer to do something. And AI just

shifted that line. It flipped it, basically. And moved it way, way closer to natural. So you can just tell it something, and it can literally write code for you, talk to the computer for you, figure out what to do so you can just tell it something yeah and it can literally write code for you talk to the computer for you figure out what to do for you yeah and ideally in the most ideal world i think accessible computing for everyone is just natural language that's the ideal like finish line

i think for all this stuff if you get frustrated at the fact that you need to learn how to code think about how hard it is for computers to learn English. Much harder, okay? It's called a coding language because there's information coded within the language that you are using that is static, that does not change. Whereas natural language is contextual and changes over the generations.

If I say, it's lit fam to my computer, you think it's gonna know what that means? In 1985, when they invented Microsoft Paint, it didn't know what it was. It had gonna know what that means in 1985 when they invented but the other thing is paint it didn't know what that was alexa show me some lit ass movies right now exactly i got you no but that's also the other thing that i think about a lot is the the job of knowing how to code that job has changed so much because then it's either like, do you become good at prompt engineering for AI or do you become good at writing code to make computers better understand

humans' natural language? Until the computer can just write better code to do that. Oh, that's a lot. It's a lot of layers that are all twisted together. It's recursive. Yeah, it's a lot. So yeah, there's a lot going on with regenerative AI and talking to a computer. I just like it to get better.

I actually think it's pretty exciting that we're actually finally seeing somebody adding conversational natural language processing into a product that people actually use every day. Because I don't really think that a text box that we type into is going to be the end state. don't really think that a text box that we type into is going to be the end state i think the end state is either ambient computing where things just happen based on your actions that you do every day or just natural language yeah and i think it's like big that it's being able to understand way more loosely based language on people who might not be that tech because all of us know our family has called us saying what is wrong with this this this and all of us have just googled it because we know how to google things better than they do because we're good at prompt engineering exactly we are good at literally early prompt engineering so now

everyone can do that or just not have to do that anymore which means way less phone calls and tech support that all of us have to do yeah It seems like the products themselves still get better in baby steps. Like every time we get a new Google IO and they're like, we've been working on our natural language models and Sundar is like throwing all this stuff on stage. I'm expecting to be able to go home to my assistant and be like, all right, open my shades,

like open the garage door, order this on Amazon. And I still can't quite naturally do any of the things I want, but I still, once in a while they'll do something like oh instead of saying hey assistant stop my timer i just say stop yeah and it knows because of context oh the alarm's going off hey said stop all right i'll stop it right like little by little we creep towards more natural but it's not like yeah blitzing our way there we We just got to get there eventually. And the Amazon demos they showed were not the most advanced.

You just said it every year at Google I.O. Sundar always shows off their most advanced version of what they have, and we get all hyped, and we're like, yeah, we can go home and use that. And then what we have at home is like one trillionth of the power. So obviously this is going to come out in baby steps. And we were actually talking earlier about how it's kind of bold of amazon to do a live uh keynote because a lot of people have started doing pre-recorded keynotes so that you can like skip over the clunky like live demos and all that stuff that barely works and apparently the wi-fi was hanging on this and

oh no all the stuff it's also just like pre-recorded stuff they can redo takes. And I just, like, watching it just... And I understand people are going to stumble over words. That's just natural. But we've seen so many pre-recorded events now that, like, seeing a live event like that again, it was just like, oh, this is... It's real humans. It's real humans. Yeah, we're spoiled by the pre-recorded stuff.

We need to go back to, like, Steve Jobs asking everyone to turn their Wi-Fi off. I know. the keynote. Google I.O. was live though, I guess, and that went pretty smoothly this year. Yeah, that went pretty smooth. Yeah.

And Dave Burke was incredible at live demos. So maybe it's just Apple's been spoiling us with the pre-recorded stuff. It was pretty weird that we went in the Steve Jobs theater,

all sat down, and then just watched a movie together for two hours. That's basically what we did. I mean, it's a theater. I guess I shouldn't be shocked. It's a pretty good screen. Tim Cook's just like, hello, in person, and then we watched a movie together for two hours. That's basically what we did. I mean, it's a theater. I guess I shouldn't be shocked. It's a pretty good screen.

Tim Cook's just like, hello, in person, and then we watched a movie together for two hours. Did you see him come out and watch it with us? Oh, he did? Oh, I didn't know that. The way it's always set up, and we'll go to a break in a second, I swear. They always have it set up where it's in the bottom, in the front, there's a bunch of Apple employees and Apple people,

and I think in the sides there's also typically a bunch of Apple employees, people who work on campus, and then also some presses there. And so when you get to certain sections, like whenever you hear the applause, it's always the Apple employees who are like, yeah, this is a clap-worthy one, guys.

Make sure you clap. Journalists, we're just typing and writing stuff down, but you hear the claps for things. And Apple employees who genuinely have no idea what the announcements will be sometimes clap at those things. But yeah, the front row is always like Tim, Craig, like Jaws, like all those guys.

So I just remember him. He comes out on stage. He goes, good morning five times. And then he goes, let's watch a movie together. And then he walks off stage. And I just remember his Apple Watch like glowing as he walks off stage. And then the movie starts

and I just see his hair like walking into the front row and sitting down in the front row and i'm like yeah we're just watching a movie sounds like a pixar film that's funny yeah my favorite thing that they announced which was very small yeah it was part of um i think just for like all the alexa echo products um the like smart speakers was having a motion sensor on it that can sense if somebody is in the room and how much activity there is in the room and being able to automatically control your lights based on that which i think is nice seems like something that should have existed for a long time yes it has the like motion sensor built into the speaker so then when you enter a room it can turn the lights on based on that and then i don't remember if they explained

what the the activity level thing was but i guess dim lights change lights based on how much activity is going on in that that all sounds a little way more confusing but i just would love my smart speaker to turn my lights on when i come into a room i feel like i've had this for a while do you have motions separate motion sensors like a phips Hue setup, you can get a motion sensor, but it's a separate motion sensor. This will just be similar. If the Nest Hub Mini has been analyzing your sleep, I feel like it should be able to turn your lights on when you walk in the room.

Especially because I can already ask it to turn the lights on. Just know that I'm there. I feel like it's similar to this walking up and the UI changing. But before, when you're talking about timers too, like just know that I'm there. I feel like it's similar to this, like walking up in the UI changing, like, but before when you're talking about timers too, like, can it see me if a timer goes off and it sees someone walk into the room and like open the oven and be like, Oh,

I can probably turn this off. I feel like we're so close to that. We're close to that. I have a nest hub where like it shows the clock usually, but when I walk up to it in the morning, it sees my face and it says, Hey Marquez and shows me my stats for the day.'s so close to just being like all right I can see what's going on in the room let me just handle things that I know should happen oh no one's in the room anymore

lights off yeah stuff like that yeah this just seems like a privacy nightmare to me well it already is a privacy nightmare and I get no benefits it's all there already and I don't get the benefits if you're just gonna watch me all the time yeah give me some extra features if you don't watch me sleep turn my lights off if it's gonna be a nightmare anyway let me get some convenience for sure all right that's a great place to leave it off uh but before we take our break of course let's do one more trivia question title of this episode amazon event my nightmare make my nightmare helpful microsoft paint was released in what year in 1985 nice it was released as a reaction to what software released by a competitor in 1984 and if you don't think you know the answer

1984 the year might help. Really? Why? I have an answer, but I know it's not right. But I know Ellis will like the answer. That was a good hint, Ellis. I'm proud of you. Okay, I have an answer.

Let me write this one. Do you think it's right? I just don't want to forget it. Because you said, that's, I'm just going to forget it. Why does 1984 help? That didn't help me at all. Orwell software. I am so dreading groceries this week.

Why? You can skip it. Oh, what? Just like that? Just like that. How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats?

Skippable. Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices? Uh, nope. You're on your own there. Could have skipped it. Should have skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite.

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Plus, NetSuite has compiled insights about how AI and machine learning may affect your business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. Welcome back, my back my friends today and this part of the podcast we're talking about microsoft again except a different arm of microsoft xbox xbox so if you haven't been aware there has been this court case going on because microsoft was trying to buy activision and then everybody sued them um because that would make them be owners of a large part of the gaming landscape so they're in court currently fighting a lot of different people uh but as part of this case they had to basically bring forward some like internal documents and one of the people who

brought one of the documents to the courthouse or uploaded it accidentally attached like way more pages than they meant to attach of internal documents oh no so they ended up leaking like in a huge roadmap for like a bunch of their games and products that they had no intention of letting people know about that's awesome i love that it was very funny funny They thought the FTC leaked it and they blamed them and then the FTC was like element. Oh, no It was you they tweeted like the head of that to see whatever had to be that like this was on you guys the scene us Sorry, bro. Yeah, so they there was a lot of like pretty weird stuff Like they had mapped out that Elder Scrolls 6 was not going to be on PlayStation Which would if they if the

Activision deal went oh yeah it was like weird it was like it's gonna be on PC and Xbox but not PlayStation like specifically said not PlayStation yeah it had like it had like these like green checks if it was going to be on that platform and a red X if it wasn't and that was mapped for the roadmap

and it was like bro their whole defense was that they were not going to make the gaming industry worse and that was mapped for the roadmap and it was like bro their whole defense was that they were not going to make the gaming industry worse and that's behind their back is a roadmap of how they will do exactly that yeah oh okay great um so another part of that is they are releasing a new series x refresh which is cylindrical and looks like a router it's not exactly like a router yeah oh actually yeah that's my air purifier yeah wait it's not a box it's not a box i know it's not an x box i didn't even think of that you can't call it that that name's taken you can't call it that youtube red all right we're cutting that i can't call it that sorry guys that was that was actually

in real time realizing you can't say that that was hilarious intro clip baby yeah it's not a box anymore yeah so now it's this like cylindrical thing which is strange um they say it's beautiful in a new design it has up to 2 terabytes of storage wait they didn't say beautiful they said it's adorably all digital it says beautiful and innovative but adorably all digital we can talk about that later

so you don't need to be a box anymore because you don't need the disc slot so you can make it whatever shape you want so of course the box is now a circle it's like pretty completely redesigned they have a USB-C port for power delivery in the front, up to two terabytes of storage, and a brand new controller that is like completely different.

It looks real. The controller looks nice. I mean, the whole, it's a refresh. It's like two terabytes. I can't tell if it's two terabytes of storage or up to two terabytes of storage. It says two terabytes of storage on the image. Keep in mind, this is all like.

Exactly. This stuff that they made internally a little bit ago so it could it is subject to change it's part of like a giant presentation that has some stuff we'll talk about later as well but wi-fi 6e um note like we said no disk drive uh two terabytes of storage five hundred dollars some reduced psu power usage um i hate that it says adorably all digital. It's like, just say it's all digital. You don't need to try and gaslight me into thinking that the digital part is good for me. Claire, look how adorable my all digital Xbox is.

But that was kind of weird. The new controller looks kind of cool. It has like raised to wake, so people are wondering if it has different types of like... Sensors. Yes, like gyros are in it so that looks cool i also just want to throw out there i like the xbox controller better than the playstation controller yeah yeah no i knew that would be a hot a hot topic controller kind of became like the de facto controller like when logitech makes like a 15 cheap controller it's modeled after the xbox

yeah and anytime you see a pc game being played on something else there they always plug in an xbox control it's weird the rocket league scene seems pretty split when i watch rocket league streamers um yeah true yeah true i guess microsoft does make it a little easier but i did get big on playstation though yeah but there are a lot of pc players that use ps5 controllers. Wasn't the demo of playing games in the Tesla screen, wasn't that an Xbox controller? Yeah. Anytime I see a demo like that, it seems like it's always an Xbox controller.

I will say I like the Xbox controller's ergonomics better. Yeah, that's what I like better. And I wish I could combine them with the PlayStation's layout. Yeah. Wait, what? The PlayStation controller is thinner and has worse ergonomics but i wish i could take that and put it and map it out onto the xbox layout i like ergonomically better than i like the size i knew we were best friends gamers you guys are both wrong for a

reason it's fine i mean the ps5 controller is fantastic and i understand it is better than an xbox controller but ergonomically i like the xbox controller is fantastic, and I understand it is better than an Xbox controller, but ergonomically, I like the Xbox controller better. I think, and someone who's an actual Windows engineer can probably explain this to me on Twitter better than I can, but I think both the Xbox controller and Kinect have class-compliant e-drivers baked into Windows, because I have lots of third-party software on my computer that was written originally for Windows

that will plug into both of those pieces of hardware seamlessly. And something tells me that these devs are not going out of their way. There's a controller driver inside of Windows and its default state is an Xbox controller, effectively.

That's why Logitech makes all their controllers look like an Xbox controller because the buttons and the driver map exactly the same. Makes sense. Whenever I was playing a dolphin emulator on my computer, it was always mapped to that. Totally legally. We could get a Kinect and a PC and we

could control all the lights in this room with Kinect. Wait, are we skipping that what skipping what yeah wait what wait guys you don't know about dolphin emulator oh guys sorry the emulator is called dolphin yeah it's the most popular emulator you have to understand how it was very confusing to me but that's still how i saw it and i didn't think anything. Really? There is goats. Wait, you guys said he was emulating a dolphin? There's goats? That's whack.

Oh my goodness. You've never heard of Goat Simulator? No, I haven't. This is a GameCube emulator called Dolphin. Well, I'm just not surprised by if it was a game where he was a dolphin. Dolphin is like one of the most popular emulators. I think if we can rewind, you said, whenever I play Dolphin Emulator. Whenever I was playing a Dol emulator oh which in my head i immediately pictured you playing dude dolphin emulator in college i played

dolphin simulator i'm right there with you so much i did play truck simulator so i can't even talk i also want to say that i've never used a ps5 controller but it actually looks very nice you should you should try it's crazy really the trigger the like adaptive trigger or whatever I also want to say that I've never used a PS5 controller, but it actually looks very nice. You should. The haptics are crazy. Really? The trigger, the like adaptive trigger or whatever it's called is fantastic. Just play Astro's Playroom. Adaptive trigger? Adaptive.

The triggers. The feedback gets. Get different amounts of feedback based on. Like pressure? Yeah. What you're doing. So like there's a game. Oh, the bow and arrow thing?

Yeah, the bow and arrow thing. So the more you squeeze the trigger, you feel like you're pulling it taut and then you like shoot it and it like releases the pressure it's and it's fast it's good i'm such a boomer yeah that controller is really good damn this is awesome yeah okay well maybe they're better than xbox then who knows in this presentation we didn't just get to see the next refresh we got to see a couple years down the road potentially too yeah i guess the presentation though is kind of old so this is like their roadmap into the future but they had a 2028 section yeah that mentioned a couple ideas and there's a bunch of different stuff in here but it essentially comes down to it seems like they're trying to make some sort of handheld device that's cloud hybrid that is using cloud-based systems to be able to power a cheaper

device to play mobile games for under a hundred dollars uh yeah right for what year 2028 i believe it said that's a long time away that's what i was saying it's like who knows if we're gonna be doing that in 2028 because we're barely doing it i'm wondering if it's because if the presentation was older and like they were road mapping too far ahead or it did seem like there were some things that had to do with um like what components they could get properly for it yeah because we are seeing stuff like that now but we're also not seeing like fantastic versions of that right now yeah um yeah i mean it kind of looks like this is like a wish list right because it's like next gen ray tracing dynamic global illumination it's kind of just like this is the stuff that we hope that we'll have at that point yeah improved processing yeah i also want to note that the the xbox head guy phil spencer he like came out and

was like this is an old deck things have changed we are excited to announce the actual products when we're ready to announce them that's yeah so that's just like you know one way we can kind of tell how this how old that was or how accurate it was is it did say that this xbox series s x refresh is like last week of october or like right before november out though well i'm just saying if it does come out then then we know if it's a little more accurate than what he's trying to play it up that's true um but still 2028 even if it was accurate now who knows what actually comes out there i don't know if you can map five years ahead of time and know what's going to happen. Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to be some new trend. They're going to be five years late too. Yeah. Interesting. Like dynamic ray tracing. So yeah, but this is a huge leak. And I just also thought it was hilarious that the FTC had to say like, we didn't do this.

You need to stop triggering everyone mentioning ray tracing. Sorry. I, yeah. I also want to. I want to make it known. Yeah. Who knows if NVIDIA is going to invent a new ray tracing sorry i yeah i also want to yeah who knows if nvidia is going to invent a new ray tracing i misspoke last week on the podcast and our tech audience sorry to everyone i did i did watch it back and i did say invented oh did you i didn't take it as that what i meant when i said that was that they brought it to consumer products for gaming products. They're not ray tracing people.

It brought it into mainstream, for sure. We were talking about ray tracing. A lot of people were talking about ray tracing. It was around before. I still should not have said invented, so I'm sorry to the people that I offended. But what I meant was that they brought it to a more consumer audience. No, you're careful. Anyway, that's it.

Well, this is also David's last episode. It sounds like he's more sorry that he got caught than sorry for what he did. Don't worry. We've taken away his paycheck from last month. We've punished him correctly for this. Y'all are savage. No, we've issued our correction. Everyone's on the

same page now we're all good yeah also if anyone wants like way more information about this there are a lot of other people that do way more console stuff that we do and no more so like judner your average consumer austin evans i'm sure are all over this right now with way more information and austin already has one i'm probably i think i found this from austin posting that this is like the biggest xbox leak he's ever seen so go check out those channels if you want way more information on consoles um yeah but we had to talk about it a little bit and i just want to say i like the controller yeah it's fun to talk about with the asterix that i don't really play any video games at all so except for

dota 2 and this dolphin dolphin. And dolphin simulator. And with that, we will head into trivia. I wrote down the second answer. I need to hide it while I show you my first answer. So, quick recap on the points. Do we have to do this every week? Yes. Marques with nine.

Andrew with one, two. Can I have the one? Five. Five? That's not as bad as it used to be. No. David with nine. Okay. So David and Marquez are tied with nine.

Wow. Dan McCabe. He created something called Microsoft Chart, which was a software that was eventually incorporated into Microsoft Excel. What other piece of famous Microsoft software did he help create? chart which was a software that was eventually incorporated into microsoft excel what other piece of famous microsoft software did he help create he is a famous guy like i know that name yeah same it like tickled my brain gosh famous microsoft software yep oh my gosh or is it and i almost want to say infamous microsoft software infamous i'm gonna be so mad if this is what it is but or if it's not what i wrote time okay flip them and

read what do you guys got i hope you're wrong marquez because that's the other thing i wanted to say and then he said infamous and now I'm... Marques is probably right. I wrote Clippy. Okay, nope. I wrote PowerPoint. Nope. I wrote PowerShell.

Nope. Okay. Well, what is that? The answer? Why do I know his name so well? Microsoft Paint. Is that really what it was? Wait, I thought you said he made Microsoft Paint.

He made Microsoft Chart. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Well done. name so well microsoft paint is that really what it was wait i thought you said he made microsoft paint he made microsoft chart oh my god oh my god well done great and yeah how proud are you that none of us got i'm so proud we got so proud this is my moment this is the cell is so disappointed in us i'm sorry same thing where you're like so what do you eat steak with a fork what do you eat salad with a fork what do you eat macaroni with a fork what do you eat steak with? A fork. What do you eat salad with? A fork. What do you eat macaroni with? A fork. What do you eat soup with? A fork.

I don't use it with a fork. I use it with a spoon. It's like the same thing. Yeah, we've been talking about paint for so long. Because I literally thought your question was he wrote paint. What else did he make? Well, he did do paint. I guess.

You're right. You're crazy. I asked Adam, I was like, do you want me to change my trivia question? Because since mine's about paint and it kind of throws yours off, he was like, nah, we're good. You're good because these idiots aren't going to catch on. I'm just glad none of us got it. I'm not. Microsoft Paint released 1985 as a reaction to what software, which came out January of 1984?

Why does this have to do with George Orwell? You're not thinking techie enough. Oh, Apple? Oh, wait. Alright, close button. Get the button going. What is the Apple version of Paint called? Who cares?

Flip them and read. What did you write? Kid pics. What is that? I don't know. It's an old drawing software on apple right oh man that's a good guess right oh wow it's a great guess okay wait can you please explain it better kid picks is this really fun uh art software for kids that was like a big part of my childhood it has like a

great sound effects package it's like super entertaining to use if you're a kid um K-I-D-P-I-X kid pics. Horrible SEO. Now it has an X. It's okay. Anyway, I wrote Apple, but... Apple software. I wrote Apple Paint, which doesn't exist, right? Unless it does. It is Apple,

but the software is called Mac Paint. Oh, does Apple Paint count. Does ApplePaint count? Does ApplePaint count? Marques, I thought you used MacPaint in the Dope Tech episode of Build on It Science Guy. Yeah, I did.

That's the only time I've ever used MacPaint, but I definitely did. I wrote ApplePaint. My assistant, my lovely producer, was telling me that that does not count. That's why you said it out of my mouth. Unfortunately.

But if I get a bunch of angry messages on Twitter, that question was not clear. That shouldn't count. Don't message him on Twitter. Y'all, I should have heard the question. Bully him on Twitter. You know what's crazy? That first question with the paint thing,

my first thought when you said it was, oh, obviously paint because we're talking about paint right now. And then the second time you asked it, I thought the question was, who wrote paint? What else did he make? When I first wrote the question, I was originally going to be like, so we were just talking about Microsoft paint and then ask you guys the question.

But I thought that was tricky. That's really evil. That's crazy. Well, it still worked. Well, zero points across the board for everyone this trivia round. That's okay, though. It's going to happen sometimes.

We're going to get some right next time. That's the way it goes. I wish. I hope. Either way, this has been a fun episode. Stay tuned for the videos we talked about that are in the works, of course, on the other channels,

but also feel free to watch the other stuff that we've already made. Check out the links in the show notes. We've got articles. We've got videos, all kinds of good stuff. Until the next one, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Catch you in the next one. Peace.

Waveformer is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network, and our intro outro music was created by vane sill jet from the inside