Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - New Mac Studio, M1 Ultra, and More from Apple’s Spring Event!

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

In case you missed it there was an Apple event this week! Marques and Andrew discuss all of the new products that were announced including the new iPhones, Mac Studio, Studio Display, and the new M1 Ultra. They end off the episode by speculating on what it this all means for the upcoming Mac Pro which has not yet been updated with an Apple silicon chip. Twitters: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/adamlukas17 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ Shop the merch: shop.mkbhd.com Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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hosts i'm marquez and i'm andrew and it event week. That's, that's the biggest thing that happened this week. This was the first live event from really any major company so far this year. And it's Apple's first event. We knew it was coming to the spring event. We knew a bunch of the stuff that we are going to get. And we got some other surprises because I actually sort of successfully kept myself out of the rumors this time. And there's a bunch of new stuff. Yeah, most of the rumors I saw were like a day or two before. So it kind of felt like there were actually, there was some wonder in this event. Yeah, a little bit.

I tweeted earlier, like, I miss the days where we had an event coming up and we had no idea what was going to be announced. That was a long time ago. But here we are. We can get the boring stuff out of the way first, I think. There's a lot of smaller things, a lot of little refreshes and updates. And I think we want to talk a little more at length about the studio stuff. For sure.

Because that's up our alley. But off the top, what did we get? We got a nice Tim Cook intro. Good morning and welcome back to Apple Park. We got Apple TV to start. Yeah, Apple TV off the start. I think they started off with just kind of like almost like a film reel

of all their new shows and stuff that are coming out and or new seasons of shows they have already and the first thing I just thought was they're dumping

a lot of money. They're super serious. Do you watch any Apple TV shows? I don't either. I do. I need to watch Ted Lasso.

That's the one I keep hearing everybody likes. I've heard there's some other really good ones, but I just haven't. I don't have Apple TV, but you could see there was Tom Hanks, Tom Holland. They had a ton of huge names.

They're clearly making the push in the streaming game. We all know everyone's trying to make a streaming platform right now. They're trying to get up there with like Netflix and Peacock. But one thing I did think that was interesting that I have a little more of an opinion on is they're doing these MLB Fridays.

I think it's baseball, Friday night baseball, it's called. They'll be playing two MLB games. I'm assuming it's every Friday. Two kind of interesting things about this. One, baseball's in the middle of a strike right now, I believe, so the timing of that is super unfortunate.

So my other thing about this that I don't really love is just that I saw it in the NHL this year where they started taking NHL games and making them exclusively on ESPN+, which is ESPN's streaming platform. And it's just a pain if you like a specific team and now you've lost your local broadcast

of something to be exclusive on a streaming service. And when it's like this, where it's only going to be two games on a Friday, your team, you're probably only going to miss one or two games. But if you're someone who really, really likes to watch every single game it sucks to have to buy a streaming platform if all you're interested in is your your mlb team and now you're only going to use it for like two games a season or something like that it's weird they didn't go all in basically yeah it's not like they can't go all in yeah you can't offer the entire thing exclusively but they did pay i assume they paid the mlb a good bunch of money for this

yeah i guess that's the idea is uh hey you want to watch the games just join apple tv and this isn't even like i'm not super super mad at like apple tv here this is happening all over sports i just don't love it in general um but it clearly is a an interesting idea if you're already an apple tv user and you're a huge mlb fan, this might be really cool for you. You can get some out of non-local games that you can watch and that's pretty fun. But yeah,

it's clearly, clearly gunning at top streaming services. They're really putting all the marbles in for that. It continues to evolve. I continue to watch none of them. I watch a lot of YouTube. That's just me. Then we got the green

iPhone mid-cycle refresh. So you remember how it's usually, I guess it's been red a lot of YouTube. That's just me. Then we got the green iPhone mid-cycle refresh. So you remember how it's usually, I guess it's been red a lot because they didn't launch a product red. And then six months later in March, they do a red version. I think they did a purple one last year. Was that last year? Yeah, on the 12th. Yeah, it was the 12th.

So this year we got green. We got a green iPhone 13 and we got an al alpine green iphone 13 pro yeah i was a little confused when they first announced it because they said two stunning new colors and to me oh green is one color despite it being two different different greens but i when they announced it it was like when they say green i knew it would already have to be two greens because the pro versions are matte and the non-pro versions are glossy so i just kind of assumed that was one color and then they kind of showed both of them and then just skipped to the next one and we were all kind of at the studio like was that two they said two so they're so it's just forest green i think for the 13 it's just like it's just called

green but if i'm describing it for audio listeners it's just just imagine like your standard default like slightly darker than normal green and then the 13 pro alpine green you're kind of where your hat is closer to it's like an olive green shout out moment yeah you got head to toe green shades on kind of well maybe i'm colorblind maybe that's kind of bluish well everyone in the audio version can now picture me wearing full green head to toe green head to toe green yeah no it's like a military green i've seen a car with this green, and it looked nice. Love it, love it, love it. So you're into the green. Super into the green.

It's just funny how they just drop a new color. One of the ones that wasn't at launch, it could have been anything. I guess it could have been some other blue or whatever they wanted, but green was definitely not available at launch, and now here we are. And they've done a green,

this feels like it was the 11, there was a pro version of the green, but it was more towards gray. This is like the greener version of that but still in that yeah that nature olive drab kind of like matte finish i love it honestly i know you you're into it i'm into the alpine one i'm not into the regular green iphone but i'm into the alpine i'll take that you're usually pretty anti-green so i don't it's just my color. I don't wear green. I don't disagree with you. I like it. I can see why people don't like green generally, but I stand it. It's not easy being green. Anyway, we got that.

That was the simple, easy stuff. Then we got two new things that I would describe as new chip, old body. iPhone SE and iPad Air. iPhone SE follows the formula that we've seen from apple from the last couple iphone ses which is we've got the a15 bionic which is the newest chip and it's inside the body of an old iphone which is the iphone 8 basically home button bezels the whole deal now putting an a15 bionic in that older phone, and actually, this is a good clarification, a slightly higher capacity battery physically, so it's hopefully a more efficient chip. But the big problem with the last year's iPhone SE was small phone, powerful chip.

You can burn through that battery kind of quick. So I'm happy to see a larger capacity battery, and we'll be testing that. But yeah, the newer chip does allow for things like Smart HDR 4+, photographic styles, like all the feature updates that are driven by the Neural Engine and the A15 Bionic. The camera quality should be better. Good stuff. So, yeah.

It also has 5G now. Exactly. So that modem is in there for 5G support. No millimeter wave, interestingly. So the 13 and 13 Pro that can do millimeter wave, this will support no millimeter wave interestingly so the 13 and 13 pro that can do millimeter wave this will not do millimeter wave fair and then it lands at 429 which is a little bit more expensive than the 399 of last generation's se my only thoughts were like when i first saw it i was like man i was hoping this would be like a 12 mini body. I think optimistically,

I was hoping for 12 mini body pessimistically. I was hoping for at least like 10 body. Yeah. Like newer updated notch, no more bezels kind of that. So I think, I think the best argument, the best reason why they're not doing that is truly still the home button. People still need and want and buy and desire an iPhone with a home button. And there's a lot of iPhone 5, iPhone 6, iPhone 7, iPhone 8 users who are just used to a home button and just want a new iPhone

and don't want to learn gestures, don't want to switch to this new form factor. And this is still Apple going, all right, we'll offer that for you. But yeah yeah they obviously can make this part in mass very cheap and you know 429 is not the cheapest phone they've ever made but it is still a competitive lower price phone it's super competitive it's great value that the se always has been i think my only like argument against that they still really want to give

someone the home button is if they're so adamant about giving people that option. Why are you only giving it to them in the cheapest phone possible? Like there's someone that wants a phone home button but wants normal like higher specs or like is there somebody who doesn't want the home button but can't afford their top range stuff? It feels like you're splitting this in an unfair manner. I feel like it's sort of a last resort thing. They don't want you to buy this phone. They want you to spend more money. So if you really have to have a home button, they do offer one, but they would much rather you buy an iPhone 13 right now at full price in green. Yeah. I'm surprised they haven't. Also, a lot of people wanted a headphone jack and they got

rid of it. So like there's plenty of things they've gotten rid of i'm surprised the home button part of me thinks they just really had did the iphone 10 just sell so well they still have eight stock left over like a bunch of manufactured bodies and it's ready to go but but yeah no this this to me is interesting we'll be testing it it feels like a a fascinating mishmash of parts like when you look at other budget phones, there are budget phones that have 120 Hertz display, that have a larger screen than this, that have a 5,000 milliampere battery with like 40 watt fast charging, that have like some decent Qualcomm chip in there,

5G, all these things that you think like, oh, they all just spank the iPhone. But the iPhone has a couple things. It's 429 and it has probably the most powerful chip in any phone ever made. Yep. It's wild. And it's 429 and has a very solid 12 megapixel camera

that will probably outperform every other phone at that price. Like when you, honestly, when you think of a $400 phone, you don't think of an amazing camera. The small exception might be an old pixel or something like that but yeah iphone se great camera other than that very old dated hardware very old screen very old screen like 60 hertz low resolution not as bright like very old parts in there so it's a it's a weird mishmash of parts

but hey this is is iPhone SE. Special edition is what I think it originally stood for. Yeah, you just mentioned SE stands for special edition. I've never really thought about it during the event yesterday. And yeah, like you said. It's the least special. It's the most formulaic, boring phone they have.

Yeah. It's the least special phone they have, but it's a special edition. Some people were saying it stands for like, or they should change the name to like cheap, like the baseline edition, whatever. It is what it is. We also got the iPad Air though. It's the same general formula, which is fascinating

because it's another weirdly imbalanced thing. The iPad Air is $599. It's the same body, same fingerprint reader, same battery, same, it's like one extra color. There's a blue one now same camera same all that yeah but it has an m1 chip in it now which matches the performance of the highest end i guess you would have to pay 800 to get an m1 ipad air how much is m1 i'm gonna look that up m1 m1 ipad air sorry m1 ipad pro yeah if you wanted to get an M1 iPad Pro right now, you'd

be paying at least $799. So I remember when I reviewed the last iPad Air, I actually called it an iPad Pro killer because the only thing you're missing, Dave and I were talking about this, the only difference between now the M1 iPad Air and the

M1 iPad Pro is the max storage. You can get that one or two terabytes in the ipad pro if that's what you're after the extra cameras of the ipad pro and lidar everyone's dying for those and then pro motion nicer screen and that pro motion thing is the only thing that i actually prefer you get face id you get a slightly different like bezel size but really it's the same form factor between the ipad pro and the ipad air are the speakers that different maybe i don't know you get a thunderbolt port on the uh ipad pro versus a fast usbc port on the ipad air is that the difference that you're going to pay 200 for probably not so like for me

it's just a screen it's the biggest difference yeah how many people are going to pay $200 for? Probably not. So like for me, it's just a screen. It's the biggest difference. Yeah. How many people are going to buy the iPad Pro if you have an M1 iPad Air option? Not as many, I don't think. I would really like to know. I feel like the people that would make that jump are artists using it as a tablet.

And I can, without any knowledge and being a horrific artist, I can only assume the 120 hertz would actually be really beneficial. But if you're an artist or a drawer or a sketch, just like doing that and have used 60 and 120 hertz, let us know. I would like to know how much it helps. It's an interesting question.

Yeah, when I look at that too, even the iPad Air supports the newest gen Apple Pencil. So my question would be how big is the difference in latency between that exact same pencil on those two different yeah so while it's probably doing this the exact same in terms of like how specific it is and how well it's drawing like when you have that disconnect between your hand and what you're seeing on the screen and your brain yeah like that latency can really i'm assuming mess you up. Yeah. And probably even though it's a mental thing, I'm sure it's frustrating,

and I'm sure there's people willing to pay an extra 200 bucks for that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still using my original, I guess it's 2018 or 2019, 12.9-inch iPad Pro. Yeah. Just because, like, yeah, I've liked ProMotion, and I've liked everything about it,

and I've had no reason to upgrade since then. The M1 chip is amazing. Haven't needed it. It's crazy power. Yeah. That chip is... So they're going to put that chip in an iPad Air with iPadOS and I'm going to have probably a lot of the same questions

that I did about the iPad Pro, which is like how much of a computer-like experience can you turn this into? But yeah, now it's $599 instead of $799. Cool. Nice. That's awesome. So yeah, that's sort of the boring stuff, but we definitely got to get into this new m1 ultra chip the max studio

and this new studio display we'll get into all of that after the break be right back this is an ad from BetterHelp. This holiday season, do something for a special person in your life. You. Give yourself the gift of better mental health. BetterHelp Online Therapy connects you with a qualified therapist via phone, video, or live chat. It's convenient and affordable and can be done from the comfort of your own home. Having someone to talk to is truly a gift,

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and the new display uh you want to do the the chip first i guess that makes the most sense yeah let's see because i feel like the chip kind of is what this is all based on and yeah honestly what we're most excited about yeah okay so we already knew we set the stage we got the m1 chip and that filled out mac mini macbook air mac imac great chip very like baseline but obviously very capable for almost everyone's regular use it's weird calling that baseline it's really good it's really good we reviewed it it's out there that's the baseline stuff then we got and that's even it's in the macbook pro that's how good it is 13 inch macbook pro so then we got m1 max and m1 pro so m1 pro being a step up and m1 max being the highest end and those show up in macbook pros and i've this is this thing right here the 16 inch macbook pro that i'm using with the m1 max chip in it monster chip amazing incredible efficiency great battery life but also it's

outperforming literally imac pros some mac out there, especially in Apple's native apps. Incredible stuff. M1 Ultra is the name of the new chip that just got announced. Yeah, let's start right there. With the name? Yeah, because it's a name we've debated about for a while. I guess we've been talking about the Mac Pro chip and what its name was going to be. This is not quite there, but is obviously the upgrade.

I think people were thinking M1X. You were thinking M2 for a little bit because we weren't sure if this was going to keep the M1 line. So we're on the M1 line, M1 Ultra. I was thinking it might have been M1 Extreme or something like that. Sounds like something Apple would call it.

Yeah, but there's Intel Extreme stuff. So I feel like they're going to try and stay away from that. That's my guess why they wouldn't go Extreme. I could see them leaning in. Like, yeah, we do Extreme too, and it's way better than theirs. There's clearly some things they don't care about and just pretend other companies don't exist.

I mean, Samsung makes an Ultra. Exactly. Samsung had a pretty funny tweet that was just like, green, Ultra? We're flattered by the... Nice. Nicely done. Wow, Samsung, getting a little shout out.

Well played. I just don't like the name, to be honest. No real reason why. I just don't think it's that fun. You know, it's funny. I never liked M1 Max either because we're talking about M1 Max Max. And a Mac with M1 Max, like, it's not a good name. True.

At least it's not a tongue twister. Yeah. So I got over the names and how I don't like any of them a long time ago because the chips are so good. I'm like, fine so the m1 ultra is basically two m1 maxes together this is we've been hearing about this die design and how they're going to have essentially cut out they're going to cut out it's like imagine a well it's funny because it's not it's not a square anymore it's a rectangle now it's a rectangle yeah so it's a it's a rectangular chip with uh with a super fast super high bandwidth connection between them 2.5 terabytes per second

between the two chips should basically allow them to communicate with zero latency and the whole system sees it as one mega chip it's why it was like exhibit was like yo dog we heard you like m1 max why don't you have two we put a pair in there yeah yeah and it's funny d was like exhibit was like yo dog we heard you like m1 max why don't you have two we put a pair in there yeah yeah and it's funny dave 2d brought this up in his video like there are dual socket systems they've been out there for a long time you can actually get a motherboard and put two cpus on it and two coolers and run a system with two chips um but having the system see it all as one is way more efficient and it's just it's just a better way to do it yeah so we saw this coming but it's here it's massive um we get the crazy speeds it's a 20 core cpu 16 of those being performance cores four of those being high efficiency cores and there's a 48 core or 64 core

gpu version of this yep and uh i think it's a 64 or 128 gigs of unified memory. Exactly, yeah. Okay, that's pretty sick. That's a lot of big numbers. They are big numbers. They did the whole graph thing they always do, which is they show not really well-labeled graphs. Did you notice the graph is always the same length away, no matter what?

It would be like a quarter of it is always the competitor, but then the top bar is like two times faster, 3.7 times faster. It's always the same amount of distance. It's the same shape of a graph every time. But they'll like change the asymptote. So they'll change the axis to say 100. But like what test are you running? Like what benchmark, what app is this even?

I did see the fine print, and they mentioned certain GPUs by name. RTX 3060 Ti is going to be more efficient than that chip. It's going to draw 200 watts less power than an RTX 3090 at the same performance. Yeah, a lot of the graphs were also super specific. Like you said, it's like outperforms blah, blah, blah at this much less power. And so I don't know. They're not one-to-one, which they never really are. Basically, my take from this was like, okay, I can't really learn much

from Apple's handpicked tests, but what I did pick up is that they compared this frequently to the highest end iMac Pro and the Mac Pro. And obviously it's called the Mac Studio that this computer is hosting this M1 chip in. We'll talk about the computer in a second.

But this chip is actually more capable in a lot of things than any chip they've ever put in any mac and that that is like a question i was asking my video this is like uh okay we've we've seen the event is this the highest end chip they need to make and the answer turned out to be no and we'll get to that in a second well they also did though mention that this is the full m1 lineup the right around here they just did say so there's some there's some naming specifics that we can get into we'll probably talk about that yeah we will definitely talk about that but bottom line is this m1 ultra chip seems to be awesome and i cannot wait to start testing it that being said um the computer that it's in is called the Mac Studio. So they announced the Mac Studio alongside the new monitor,

which is the Studio display. And it basically looks like a super thick Mac Mini. I'm giving that about four Cs. It's like several Mac Minis stacked on top of each other. Yeah, 3.7 inches tall, which seems really small, but I guess the regular Mac Mini is probably only like an inch and a half. It's like an inch and a half. So it's looking like it and a half. Yeah.

So it's looking like it ate a bunch of other Mac minis basically. They Kirby'd another Mac mini. Yeah, essentially. So it's tall. It's got these heat sinks. I think basically half the internal volume is heat sink. Yeah, I actually got a little excited off the start because so you know how it's pretty much like a rounded square

and then on the bottom it has a circle that's all the vents. So they started when they announced it with this like crazy close-up of a bunch of holes and circular, and I was like, oh my God, they're bringing the trash can back. And I literally said it out loud and got excited, and then I realized it was just the bottom that you almost never see. Yeah, somebody who made that render was probably thinking that the whole time, like somebody's going to think it's an ad pro pro circle again you got me if you're watching but it is actually

a remarkably similar thermal design it's taking in cool air from the bottom which the trash can mac pro did it cools all the components and then exhausts hot air out the top or in this case the top back yeah um but you know this is uh this is Apple's own silicon. This isn't a huge GPU inside. Exactly. It's very different. I think that's the biggest thing because when you had the trash can Mac Pro and it started having problems,

it was very specifically the GPU that was starting to cause issues. GPU was just spitting flames, man. I mean, and jamming that inside that small, where it only had vents on the top and bottom and the outside was like literally completely shut. It never stood a chance. Looking back, it was insane. So this Mac Studio studio so it's got a bunch of real ports got a bunch of thunderbolt

ports on the back it's got 10 gig ethernet hdmi two usb a ports still it's got the high impedance headphone jack from the macbook pro it looks like and there's front io also yeah front ports i think that's nice because this is clearly something that goes on your desk, and there's an SD card reader right on the front of the thing. Yep. Awesome. Thank you. The Mac Mini always had it on the back. That always drove me insane. Yeah.

And they still put the power button on the back. Fine, I can reach around and hit that. But if I just want to hit the SD card slot right in the front, love that. So that's in the front along with two USB-C ports. If you get the M1 Ultra version, those are two Thunderbolt ports. Cool. I don't know. Any thoughts on this design?

I mean, it's clearly extremely small for the amount of power it's kicking out. That's what I think is really cool about it. And in a very specific scenario like here where people make fun of your cable management fairly often because you're... Oh, this is huge for me. Yeah, yeah.

We have the Mac Pros. I'm someone who put it on my desk, but it takes up a large amount of my desk you have double monitors you have big studio speakers like it cannot fit on your desk so you have your computer on the ground all the time which means all of your wires always have to have slack for being able to go to sitting to standing that's something people don't understand yep i want to just bring up the fact that pewdiepie roasted my setup because all he did was see the disc in the standing position and saw all those cables dangling there and said Marquez what's good with the wires yep bro it's impossible I mean it's you can do it but you spend a serious amount of cable management

and as someone who switches computers every couple years I'm not trying to do that yeah um just trying to make that work so yes with this it'll be on my desk and I'll have the cleanest setup you've ever seen. No wires anywhere. I'm very excited. Looking forward to seeing it. But yeah, the fact that you can literally like you could stack that between your two monitors right now,

have all the wires. Yeah. It's going to look so much nicer. It is crazy. You can get that much power out of something that small that can fit on your desk. Uh, I would,

I feel like 12 South or something is going to do, it'd be really see if they made some sort of mount to go onto the back of monitors because that would be really sick. That's what I always love doing with small form factor computers. This is a little thicker though, maybe not work quite as well.

When you said 12 South, I actually pictured them making like a tray. Wait, so are you thinking of like the old imac stands we had kind of kind of so i i'm picturing a tray because the one thing we'll talk about the monitor in a second but people are like why is there no wireless charger in the stand apple was never going to do that but what if they just made a tray where you put the mac there you put you got like a wireless charger a spot to charge your phone maybe and then like some spots to hold like sd cards and stuff and it's just all neatly in this little metal tray okay

felt on the inside so it's soft yeah that'd be cool i could see them making that but yes a backpack type thing where you put it on the back of a monitor yeah it can fit do you remember our imac stands for the imac pro it was kind of like it was basically like a little box where since the imac isn't height adjustable it would like boost it up a little bit you and i are both tall that helps immensely and then it would give you like a little slot to store some things under yeah but i could see 12 south making a case where you could scoot the new studio display stand on top of it safely by By the way, 12 South will take a solid 10% of all of these ideas when you do eventually come out with them

because clearly we're the only ones who have these ideas. No, yeah, I like it a lot. Something also, since I put out this video, Dave2D, again, he's a sleuth, he's all over Apple.com, found that the M1 Ultra version of this Mac studio weighs two pounds more than the M1 Max version. I thought that was curious. And the two possible speculations we had were either number one, they've done some sort of a different heatsink design in the M1 Ultra version, or number two, there's just a bigger power supply in the M1 Ultra version, which weighs more because it's an

internal power supply. So that's an interesting random quirk. If you're thinking about putting it behind the monitor as a backpack, you should know if you get the seven-pound version versus the five-pound version. I guess that should matter a little bit. That's fascinating. Yeah. I cannot wait.

I'm sure he's going to sleuth into that further and try and figure out what exactly it is. Yeah, we're going to get both. I don't know if, I guess, I'm guessing they pop open the same way a Mac Mini does, the bottom part, you just unscrew it basically and you can look inside, but we'll see. Can we actually talk about that a little bit? Because this was something, right after they announced the studio,

they said is, or actually I think it was right before, they said there's three main things we want to accomplish with the Mac Mini, or the Mac Studio. Performance, connectivity, and modularity and finally many want a modular system and display so they can create their perfect setup and the modularity thing made me think we were getting a Mac Pro and then the Mac mini comes out which I think we all know is like not exactly what we would consider modular and right after that he did say many want

a modular system and display so they can create their perfect setup it kind of feels like all they're saying is you get to choose your own monitor that's the only thing i could say is modular about this but he in that it also does say modular system which feels like the system not including externals or peripherals so that part confused me that part feels like a lie exactly this but this is this is a computer that is not designed to be user serviceable the 128 gigs of video memory you can never change once you buy it yeah all this like spec changing like you can't do anything once you get it i mean other than like change a fan out or something if it breaks but like that's not even on you it's not modular at

all no yeah you can change your own display byod i thought that was an interesting word I mean, other than like change a fan out or something if it breaks, but like that's not even on you. It's not modular at all. No. Yeah. You can change your own display. Yeah. BYOD. I thought that was an interesting word. I would never use modular to describe this.

Okay. So that's the M1 Ultra's Mac studio, right? So we've got the computer. They announced it alongside this display, this gorgeous display, and it looks just like a pro display XDR. this gorgeous display and it looks just like a Pro Display XDR but basically what it is

is for $1,600 it's they took the display out of the 27 inch iMac and just made it a standalone screen is it the same aspect ratio? it's the same display

oh okay all of it it just looks different because it doesn't have a chin on it exactly so it doesn't have the screen it doesn't have

sorry the computer behind it doesn't have the chin anymore they've taken the same 27 inch 5k display i think it's 600 nits now instead of 500 that's the only difference yeah same you know same yeah aspect ratio pixel density all that stuff and they've repackaged it so it's a nice display it looks like the protosplay xdr but it doesn't need the heat sink holes on the back so it's just a flat metal back yeah it looks like if protosplay xdr and the imac then when imac kind of because

like the stand and the thinness is closer to that but the the feeling and look of it feels like yeah xdr and then it's uh it's got three ports on the back three usbc i think it was two usb three usbc and a thunderbolt okay so it's got your ports on the back it has a 12 megapixel webcam which the pro display doesn't have and it's an ultra wide webcam with the center stage feature yeah and as an a13 inside the monitor right for that it does speakers yeah so the triple mic array and the webcam powered by literally a high-end smartphone chip from two years ago yeah amazing and six speakers with atmos and spatial audio as well they said those speakers are the best they've ever put in a Mac,

which to me, I am using the 16 inch MacBook Pro and this is the best speakers I've ever heard in a Mac. Yeah. Cause like what other built-in speakers do you really care about? The desktop never has good speakers. So I'm interested to hear what those sound like. Yeah. And I also, a lot of people are going to say who cares about speakers inside of a monitor and all it's easy to agree with that at the same time if you're someone who's 99 of the time using headphones for your work which i think on a lot of there's gonna be a lot of video editing uh and potential music editing and audio editing on this yeah i think that will be the case but every once in a while you just want to like show someone something quick and if you don't have the full like speaker, having just those really quickly to unplug your headphones,

show somebody something so you can both listen to it as an example and then plug it back in, it's actually really beneficial. Yeah. I was calling this studio display basically everything that LG UltraFine 5K ever wanted to be. Remember that thing from like six years ago? Yeah. It came out right alongside a couple other Macs and it was like oh nice okay with one cable you can plug it into your laptop it'll

charge the laptop and you get this gorgeous 5k display which is like okay that's the same resolution apple's been using and all that cool they just made they just killed that product basically but it's more expensive yeah and the stand this is where it gets kind of interesting at least for me okay so sixteen hundred dollars just for the baseline yes add 300 if you want nanotexture yeah add 400 if you want height adjustability at all yeah so pretty much regular default stand it comes with is like the imax stand which is just tilt and then if you want the kind of xdr-esque stands you know the it doesn't rotate to portrait like the xdr it doesn't do that but it just adds height adjustment it adds that extra hinge to get the height that's all you get height adjustment

400 for height adjustment so you could easily 700 so you're looking at like what is that now it's an over two thousand dollar monitor yeah so does it kill the lg ultrafine 5k no there's a lot of other monitors that do a lot of things that are close but not quite like it wait slightly off topic was the was the ultrafine was that the one that uh was interfering with routers yes back in the day yes they had to release an update yeah that was really yes that was like a plastic monitor right it had a webcam but i'm sure it wasn't very good it had built-in speakers but i'm sure those weren't six speaker dolby atmos like amazing was it high adjustable i'm pretty sure it had a okay most yeah so that's so it doesn't cost 400 extra dollars so like that launched at like 1300 bucks it's still

1300 bucks that's still a display that a lot of people will probably get if they only want to spend 1300 bucks but if you want the extra bits of like apple doing first party well like this studio display will clearly pair well with any mac the webcam is you know has the highest powered isp probably in any monitor ever so you got 813 in their center stage you got great speakers great mics so yeah I can see people with MacBook Pros who didn't want to get a $6,000 Pro display getting this instead. And a lot of people who get the Mac Studio getting this as well.

It's interesting that it's not updated at all in any sort of color capacity. Like if you're doing studio stuff, like video editing editing the 5k iMac display was good but it's not $1,600 like standalone display good so I'm curious to you know see what kind of people end up choosing that over the other options I was personally selfishly hoping it would be higher refresh rate 120 hertz totally unnecessary for a studio display but i just want a higher refresh rate display in the inevitable most powerful mac ever made yeah this feels like the the toned down version of xdr though so i while still pretty high price point um yeah i was i don't see them giving you anything that's going to outperform the xdr display

oh yeah that's fair i mean does though. It has much better speakers and a much better webcam. True, yeah. But as far as the display quality, it's not going to touch the XDR. So fair. Okay. So that's the studio display.

I think like in that really quick, there was some debate on Twitter about how much this is worth. And it seems pretty, no one's, or there's both sides. Some people think this is totally not worth it because you could just get the old UltraFine.

And while it's still $1,300, people are saying you can get it used for quite a bit cheaper. And then this is like $1,600 for a 5K display. There's a lot of people saying, compare it to something else, but not a lot of people make 5K it to something else but not a lot of people make 5k yeah that's the thing the only people making 5k so it's hard to find a direct

comparison here it's hard to find comps that's that's what it comes down to so yeah i guess i find i'm probably somewhere in the middle where i can only recommend this to people who know what they want and this is what they want. If I specifically want a 5K display that's going to work well specifically with my Mac, this is one of the best options. Yeah.

Right? There's only a couple. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be the best built. It's going to have the best speakers. It's going to have the best camera, I'm assuming. And it's going to work well

as far as, I don't know, there's no face ID, but I mean, it's got an A13 Bionic inside. Yeah. That's great. I think it's, if you're a bargain hunter, I don't think you're no face id but i mean it's got an a13 bionic inside yeah i think it's

if you're a a bargain hunter i don't think you're getting a bargain with this but no if you buy this you're not gonna feel ripped off yeah so that's the other side oh do you want a bargain do you want the best bang for your buck as far as like i want a high resolution display to pair with my mac okay yeah check out the dell ultra sharps check out the lg 5k check out the other displays there's if you want high refresh rate, there's other options. So, yeah. You got to know what you want. And for some people, a studio display is exactly what they want, and that's cool.

So, I guess, yeah, all of that paired together makes a pretty solid announcement. But then they ended it with a pretty brutal teaser, in my opinion. Oh, yeah. Just because I know what I'm here for. I actually did miss it. I was listening to four different things at once and I didn't catch it. Yeah, you were tweeting and everything.

Yeah, I was taking my notes, but apparently, so John, at the end, the final presenter before Tim Cook said, Together with the studio display, these products will empower users to create the studios of their dreams and to continue to create the studios of their dreams and to continue to change the world. And they joined the rest of our incredible Mac lineup with Apple Silicon,

making our transition nearly complete with just one more product to go, Mac Pro. But that is for another day. But that's just for another day. On to you, Tim, and just moves on. Okay, so that's the one I've been waiting for so my question this entire time and we'll get more into this after the break was is the mac studio a mac pro mini or a mac mini pro yeah that's very right it It's a small difference, right? Is it a better Mac Mini or a worse Mac Pro? Or a mini Mac Pro. Yeah, it's very... And the answer is because of his statement,

it's a Mac Mini Pro. Yeah. Right? It's a really, really good, powerful chip in a computer that goes on your desk. But the Mac Pro is still coming later. It just happens to be so powerful that it's outperforming the current Mac Pro.

That's how good it currently is. I mean, we've seen that before, like when the MacBook Air M1 came out and there was still Intel Mac Pros. Is this a Mac Pro? Is this a MacBook Pro? No, it's just so good that by the time they get to refreshing the next one,

that's the next level up. The transition's gonna have some weird in-betweens here. Yeah. So let's take a quick break and come back and talk about that Mac Pro. This holiday season, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is counting on your support. CAMH is on a mission to make better mental health care for all

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about how AI and machine learning may affect your business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, we're back. Welcome to the least useful, most emotional part of the podcast for me. Yeah, the back end of the podcast, what it usually is. We save the best for last. Okay, so we know what we've got announced.

Yes. The M1 lineup is actually now complete. Yes. Because what Apple said is this completes the M1 lineup. So that's the M1, the M1 Pro, the M1 Max,

and the M1 Ultra. Yes. Which means we're going to get a Mac Pro and it won't have an M1 in it. It'll have something else. Yeah, this is something I double checked multiple times is they had two very specific statements that I'm sure were worded very on purpose,

which was, We're adding one last chip to the M1 family, and it's going to blow your mind. And then when they were talking about form factor computers, they said, Apple Silicon. This is the Apple Silicon lineup, everything except for one, which is Mac Pro. So they specifically did not say m1 there so we're assuming that now mac pro is this is our speculation yeah not m1 so what do you want to get

to do first here uh naming i guess my speculation starts with naming yeah let's go straight into naming okay i think the the way this roadmap plays out is we're going to start to see the refresh of the new versions of those M1 chips around the same time we see the new Mac Pro. So I think we're going to get an M2 in all of the baseline stuff that we currently have an M1 in. Okay. So we have an M1 iPad, M2 iPad, M1 MacBook Air, M2 MacBook Air. I think we're going to get an M2 Pro and an M2 Max in these MacBook Pros. And then we're going to get an M2 Ultra in the Mac Studio. And I think they need an M2 Extreme or something else for the Mac Pro.

Mega, yeah, they're going to have to come up with another word, another name. I'm not banking on a good one, but. And that will be, so we're just skipping M1 altogether for Mac Pro and it will be on the same architecture as M2. So they'll probably have more density. I don't know if it's four nanometer, but you know, more transistors,

all this stuff for M2. We do all that for all the M2 series and then that same architecture gets like a quad chip okay for the m2 extreme yeah like a four times pretty much exactly yeah that's my theory based on what i've seen and how it's timed out so after a lot of thought into this at first i was wondering if there would just be like an m1 ultra 2 i don't like like a yeah i don't know like an upgraded m1 ultra that could be in a mac pro and then i think i've eventually came to the point where you are but i have one more thing in there which is if that is the case if they do a full m2

refresh of everything and then do a fifth m2 chip for the mac pro when do you see the mac pro coming out because yeah that's where i've gotten to this point of yeah so the the last mac pro what we got a we got an unveiling at wwdc which is like june and then they said it's coming by the end of the year and i think it came out in like November or December. So I kind of just, whenever I make predictions about the future of Apple, they are so consistent with so many things, I tend to just look backwards to be able to look forwards. So I would guess that we see an unveiling

of this new Mac Pro at WWDC 2022, and it's out by the end of the year, along with some other M2 stuff. So that's where I'll disagree, I guess. So, and my reasoning for it is if you're gonna release the m2 what a mega ultra where we can just call it whatever um it feels really hard to me because if they're gonna release that end of year that means they're basically gonna be releasing it before most of the other m2s right the next generations maybe you're starting to get

the beginning of the m2 and like the upgraded air at the end of the other M2s, right? The next generations. Maybe you're starting to get the beginning of the M2 and the upgraded Air at the end of the year, the upgraded MacBook Air. Yeah, maybe they do refresh everything. That's a fast cycle. I feel like it would make more sense for them to introduce M2 on the lower end, kind of like what they did with M1,

and then you're going to slowly build. So each one, you can say, we're more powerful, we're more powerful, we're more powerful, we're more powerful. So when you start at M2 Mega, everything after that is now downgraded in terms of release. I mean, still really good,

still different price points, so they're still super worth it, but it just feels, from an announcement standpoint, to be weird, to be like, you can't do anymore. This is the fastest chip apple's ever made that's like their their freaking mantra yeah because basically they've announced these new

chips in progressive order of power exactly they announced the m1 and then they did the more powerful m pro and then m1 max and then even more so i guess so are they beholden to doing that again or are they allowed to announce the m2 mega in the desktop but obviously that doesn't fit in the other machines so then we'll also do m1 m2 pro later is that weird i think so so to me it makes me sad i think they're gonna talk about more mac pro at wwdc and then i don't think we're gonna see m2 mac pro for another year well they did promise a tier transition so that's kind of funny if they announce it and then just don't put it out i think as far as like i didn't take that into consideration yeah the end of the two years is

the end of this year yeah yeah so i you know unless do they count it as the full transition as it's like it's being developed it's just not out yet that's tough i want it i don't think so i know you want it to be out i'm not being like yo apple marquez really wants to wait another year for this could you slow it down it's funny because i also do think that the the general idea of what we're expecting from that chip and what it will do is already pretty set like we know what this this jade to die with two chips and the the fusion layer in between we already know what that is and what it does if they just do that again now there's four that's what we're expecting the mac

pro to be so what 40 core cpu 128 core gpu 256 gigs oh no we have to quad yeah yeah 256 gigs of of built-in memory we're just doubling the m1 ultra. Well, you're doubling them. I'm doubling the M1 Ultra, not knowing that maybe there could be a little extra juice in there for M2 Ultra. But yeah, so that's the thing. Also, if we're going to get the M2 Mega, which we assume is like four times what the M2 Max would be, or two times the M2 Ultra,

what is the M2 Ultra? What are the specs on that? What's the upgrade on there that then you're doing twice that again to get to four times the M2 ultra what is the m2 ultra what are the specs on that what what's the upgrade on there that then you're doing right twice that again to get to four times the m2 max but we might just be like nitpicking just because like the the fundamentals of it will be the same it will be that 4x size it will be that 4x yeah 4x of what transistor is 4x capabilities generally and like the best most optimized apps will get a huge bump in performance maybe not a 4x but like if they're efficient if they're apple first party apps maybe they'll get 4x performance right yeah so that's the general theory behind it and

like god i am very excited to see a machine that can do 4x what this ultra can do because that's it's basically 4x what the current mac pro can is so wild because i feel like we're still on the high of what just m1 pro and m1 max really gave us like people are still i mean tim just got his laptop people are still just getting those macbook pros and really understanding how powerful they are and and apple's just like double it quad it yeah i guess it's that we you know the the pace of development isn't necessarily higher they've developed m1 yeah and they're just shipping larger and larger cuts of the same general thing if that's i'm oversimplifying yeah but so now that we get like a 2x version it's like they didn't have to do an entire year of development to see how are we going to double the number of

transistors in the same amount of space. No, they just have a double the size chip. So I don't think we're that far out from actually seeing a chip capable of all that. They just need to develop the machine it goes in and like decide what kind of tower this actually looks like. That's a great segue because I think form factor is the next most interesting thing about yeah a new mac pro because it clearly

right now the mac pro is gigantic it needs to fit a motherboard it needs to fit different things in the pcie slot it needs to fit so much and still have a ton of extra space because it needs to cool it so much you drop down to being apple silicon now and you're seeing this ultra in a basically like beefed up Mac mini, what is the Mac Pro going to look like? Okay, so this is something I've thought about a lot. I will attempt to describe the way I think roughly a new Mac Pro would look like

with our theoretical, let's just call it an M1 quad, right? I've had like seven different names for it already. I like Mega. I'm already at the point where i'm going to be sad if it's not called mega just because we said it so let's go with that okay so this m1 mega so right now you can still buy an intel mac pro from apple.com if you really want to for 50 grand they just released a new one also they just updated the gpu exactly you can get a different graphics card for 50 grand you can get two dual

sized uh dual slot workstation cards a 28 core xeon a terabyte and a half of ddr5 ram and eight terabyte ssd and some wheels right oh and uh don't forget don't forget the uh what's that card called i just forgot it's the pro res card afterburner you can get an afterburner card for two thousand dollars in there right the afterburner card is completely unnecessary in the new one because that's basically built into the media engine which gets doubled every time the chip gets doubled the the built-in chip in the ultra can do 18 concurrent pro res 8k 422 files at once playback so you don't need a pro res card you don't need a ProRes card. You don't need the afterburner card anymore.

So scrap that. That's out of here. So then I just think about like thermal envelope and how small can this thing be? I think it will be an on-desk computer size again. And I'm picturing, I'm trying to describe this correctly, about the size of the Yamaha HS8 studio monitor on my desk okay if

those if people don't know how big that is that's basically picture like a macbook pro up on its side picture a cube that big yeah i'm gonna say like like a 14 inch laptop foot tall foot long not even a foot tall not even a foot tall actually yeah no yeah it's a foot tall that's a good that's actually a good measurement i'm also going to quickly do this in metric so people on good call okay one foot is 300 millimeters so right tall so picture a 300 millimeter cube a one foot cube something roughly like that okay so you can put it on your desk if you want to um and i think a chip that big can use half of that space for cooling and then apple just needs to decide what types of add-on real modularity they want to support do they want us to be able to slot in

like actual extra gpu power because it's going to be an absurdly powerful gpu built in already does that need to even exist don't know. Do they want us to be able to slot in additional storage? Lots of professionals need to be able to slot in additional storage. Additional storage is the biggest thing that's going to separate this from the studio. Additional IO and networking. A lot of people need in their professional environments to be able to slot in hey i need eight more thunderbolt ports for this thing hey i need you know four gigabit ethernet ports just for this computer every time i buy one i'm going to need a card an expansion card basically for that what

types of expansion cards will work how will they interface with the motherboard don't know yet because we have pcie on these regular boards i don't know what that looks like yet but i think generally yeah give us that that SD card slot. Go crazy, Apple. Put an SD card slot built into this thing. Put a Red Mag reader. Whoa. Oh, wait, we're not even like shooting on Red Mag anymore.

Red Mags are dead. They shoot to cards now. As they should be, yeah. Yeah. No, but they can make a bunch of decisions between now and that unveiling, and they can put that thing in the size of like a yeah about a shoebox this shoebox is a very good yeah i was thinking um the nzxdh1 case it almost would just be like if you took the the now max studio and stack them stacked them pretty

much i mean like still reasonable height it almost looked like a really beefy maybe like router or something like that yeah a little taller a little more space for some airflow a little more space for maybe something that's expandable um tower but like super reasonable tower yeah yeah i'm excited i mean honestly the the power of i think i saw there's a tweet i think it was from last night or something like that, where someone just tweeted like, what kind of workflow do you have to have to think you need to keep waiting for a more powerful computer over the, this Mac studio, the Mac studio is incredibly powerful. And if you are a after effects editor, even a final cut editor, whatever,

like you just got the do all machine. It does want right and that's what i thought about the intel mac pro and i still make that thing basically i'm not gonna say choke you've messed that thing but i've had i've had it reach its limits several times yeah that thing has 768 gigs of ram like on paper i never thought i reached the limit of that machine and And here I am wishing for more. So yeah, when I see that there's a new Mac Pro coming, clearly there are not just workflows, but there are use cases,

I think is a better word, that still need real modularity, that still need real expandability. And those people are definitely going to be waiting for real Mac Pro tower. I am one of those people who's just like working with enough high resolution footage and plugins and consecutive concurrent apps and things like that where i actually do want extra storage in the mac pro

and i do actually want to be able to plug in my dac and my monitors and the displays and all that and i there's not enough ports like i just need more so all that. And I, there's not enough ports. Like I just need more. So I am one of those people. There's not a lot of people that do need more in the Mac studio. I think the Mac studio is going to be just about as good as any content creator that I talked to will need, but I'm one of those people who's going to be waiting. Yeah. 3d stuff and rendering is probably what you, they, and they showed so much of that in the announcement, but I can only much of that in the announcement. Yeah. But I can only assume the announcement for the Mac Pro

is going to look so similar because those are the people who are really putting the weight on machines. And I think the new one's going to be, you know, better for them. This one's already amazing for them. The new one's going to be even better. But at a certain point,

you're basically just advertising to those people who are like rendering insane scenes out. Yes, the funny thing is like, it's going to be the most unrelatable apple event ever like at least with the studio they could name it the studio and you know how they had that little setup where the lady was in front of a bunch of like things like a like a house cut in half behind her yeah they had like a bunch of photography studio they had a videography studio an animation studio and like even those places don't need this computer but hey Hey, now, look, you can do these huge HDR images and this new, you know, workflow will be supported by it. And so that was, even if you're never in that situation, you can at least understand what I'm

looking at. I'm looking at a video studio. Okay. This is called the studio computer. That's what it's for. How are they going to explain a Mac Pro that's not even for these studios? It's for like Hollywood data centers and the craziest workstations that somehow need more power than the Mac studio. I don't know how you make that relatable at all. Maybe that's just a short section of W. That's where they put it.

WWDC. They're talking to developers. Developers know that that's the type of stuff they need. You're compiling. All right, here's all the power you need. And that's just how they lean in. We'll look exactly like the Mac Studio announcement looked like. I have one more question kind of

to wrap, not to wrap it all up, but kind of at the end, nothing that was talked about but some speculation, I guess. So we saw that they took the 27-inch iMac off of the website after this announcement. Done. They said that they are now done with the entire Apple Silicon lineup now, except for Mac Pro.

Right. So before this announcement, there were some rumors of people were all thinking upgraded M1, maybe iMac Pro comes out before Mac Pro. I don't think anyone is really... The Mac Mini, the Mac Studio is kind of a surprise. But so iMac Pro, is it dead? We know that Apple Silicon lineup, except for Mac Pro, is now completely announced. We now have the 27-inch studio monitor, which replaces the size of what the iMac Pro would be. And the iMac is now

the smaller like in my eyes is now iMac is just the I'm a family computer at home I can bring in my kitchen and do whatever and looks cool and has dumb white bezels thing and now that's not a pro grade thing anymore you know what you know when you put all the clues together and you look at the way Apple phrased a lot of things, I would say, yes, the iMac Pro is dead and not coming back. I agree.

I'll combine the fact that they've said that the M1's done and they're just going to have one more thing, which is iMac Pro. That seems like the obvious thing. It's like,

okay, no more iMac Pro. You combine that with the fact that they literally have the same display as the iMac Pro in the studio display so if you want an iMac Pro you should just get a Mac Studio and a studio display exactly that's about the same price actually probably let's say you get two thousand

dollars for the display and you get five thousand dollars for the computer, $7,000, that's what a high-end iMac Pro was. So that's another thing. And yeah, you just put in the fact that the iMac, if you were to create an iMac Pro from the current iMac, you'd need it to be redesigned again. That's a bunch of thermals, that's a new heat sink

that sticks way further off the back. If they haven't designed that and they said they're done adding to the lineup sounds like it's not coming it makes me think that the old iMac Pro was a like really quick transition pro grade desktop because Mac Pro still wasn't out yet but they the old Mac Pro is so old and having issues they didn't really have that in between of like, this is what professionals should use. And the main gripe with it was, if I'm a professional, I probably want two monitors

doing a lot of these different workflows. Or like a couple more ports. Yeah, so now the Mac Studio and being able to have up to three monitors of the studio display feels like the clear solution. And now they get to call it modular. I'm doing air quotes, audio listeners. Yeah, that still really makes me-

We modulate, we separated it from the display. So now you can just swap it out and put a different one if you want. There you go, it's modular. Someone at Apple needs to learn what modular means, for sure. Well, I'm not holding my breath, but I think we'll see a truly modular Mac Pro

at some point in 2022. And I think that's a positive note to end it on. I'm hoping. I'm crossing my fingers. 2022. Audio listeners, 2022. I hope so also. Yeah, we'll see.

Don't know if I would bet on it. Either way, that's about it for this week. I mean, there's a bunch of videos on the channels now. You should definitely check out the green iPhone unboxing on the Shorts channel. Should be up the day this comes out. Also, yeah, check out the full iPhone unboxing on the Shorts channel. Should be up the day this comes out. Also, yeah, check out the full recap video for my thoughts. And obviously, if they're a little more concise, this is a bunch of rambling.

But hey, if you want that recap to share, that is there. And stay tuned for the reviews because we got to test these things out. Either way, that's been it for Waveform this week. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Catch you guys soon. Peace. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina.

We are partnered with Vox Media. And our intro outro music was created by Vane Silk. listening thanks for watching catch you guys soon peace waveform is produced by adam molina we are partnered with vox media and our intro outro music was created by vane silk