Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - New Pixel Fold, Tablet, and a ZenFone Too!

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

Andrew was supposed to be on vacation this week so it's just Marques and David bringing you the news. They talk about YouTube testing games in its app, the new Pixel Fold and Tablet, and even a new Zenfone! They wrap it up with a bunch of EV news before finishing it all up with trivia. It was a gadgety week! Trivia link: https://bit.ly/WVFRMTriviaForm Mr. Mobile Lenovo Yoga Book 9i: https://bit.ly/MrMobileLenovoReview Pixel Tablet review: https://bit.ly/MKBHDPixelTabletReview Pixel Fold review: https://bit.ly/MKBHDPixelFold Ars Technica Pixel Fold Review: https://bit.ly/ArsPixelFoldReview Shop products mentioned:  Google Pixel Tablet at https://geni.us/ByWA Google Pixel Fold at https://geni.us/G4APMd ASUS Zenfone 9 at https://geni.us/XpzHtl Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Twitters: Waveform: https://twitter.com/wvfrm Marques: https://twitter.com/mkbhd Andrew: https://twitter.com/andymanganelli David Imel: https://twitter.com/DurvidImel Adam: https://twitter.com/adamlukas17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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connexontario.ca t's and z's apply what is going on people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. Oh, Andrew's not here. Andrew's not here. He's on vacation.

I'm David. And Andrew is, he'll be back next week. I'm pretty sure he's, well, maybe there's some flight things happening and the airports are ruining everything. He got stuck somewhere in the United States. Yeah, this isn't new. We all need airports are terrible, but we do have a lot to talk about this week. So we're going to do all of that.

We have a bit of a backlog, YouTube testing, some games, pixel fold review is out. Tesla charging standard is just all the dominoes are falling at once and it's all happening. Yes. First of all, wait, David, you know this is a video podcast, right? Wait, is my camera being covered up? You are completely behind. Oh, sorry. Laptop that you brought.

Let me, sorry, I'll just moving it. Turn it. There we go. Oh, that's a huge difference that just made. Better, right? Oh, that's fine. Oh, it's. Better, right? Oh, that's fine. Oh, it's glitching. No way, really?

I am shocked by this. Okay, can you explain what's in front of you right now? Yes. Because I don't know. I've not seen this until now. Okay, so this got announced at CES and finally, finally came out like a couple weeks ago. That is actually all you had to say. That explains so much of what I'm looking at if this was announced

at ces yeah finally just came out in june okay so what this computer is called the lenovo yoga 9i or yoga book 9i um it's a dual screen laptop laptop yeah strong word laptop is a strong word because you can't really use it on your lap you can sometimes there's basically four different form factors of it um i got very excited when i saw it at ces and then a friend of the show uh michael fisher did a review on it recently and i was like well he'll he'll review anything that folds i know exactly that is that qualifies it does fold in half but it's kind of dope because it has two screens so you can either have it in like dual screen landscape orientation or dual screen portrait orientation and it's kind of dope because it has two screens, so you can either have it in dual-screen landscape orientation or dual-screen portrait orientation. And it's got this folding, what would you call it, the origami back kickstand.

I see that. That also wraps around the exterior keyboard. It's actually very cool. I'll just show it to you real quick. Okay. So you can click like this. Is it cool, though? Yeah, I'm trying.

I'm really trying. And then the origami, not only does it hold the pen, it wraps around the keyboard. Okay, that's clever. And you just got it like that. But the magnets aren't very strong. Can I hold it? Yeah, you want to hold it? The magnets don't seem very strong.

On that or this? Oh, I thought this was magnetizing to the laptop. No, no. Oh, so you have to carry both. Yeah, yeah. You also have to carry the mouse. So you have to carry the laptop, the case, and the mouse all separately. Yes.

Why? Yeah. I know. Is this actually good or is this just kind of a fun thing if you're bored? It's fun. Like, if you're bored with laptops, this is cool. But this is actually not. But there's so many form factors.

Like, look at that. So, like, I mean, yeah. It's like origami, right? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Magnets. So you can have it. Yeah. It, like, I mean, yeah, it's like origami, right? Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Magnets. So you can have it. Yeah, it like leans back.

For audio listeners, I'm very sorry. There's only one angle. There's only one angle. Yeah. And it's, well, no, because there's that. Well, then your top screen, I guess, has more angles. Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, I'm just messing with it.

It's fun. It's a fun piece of tech i wonder about these types of computers sometimes yeah because i see sometimes the uh lenovo yoga book and all the ones that like flip over and the commercial with like use it in tent mode use it in yeah in tablet mode yeah and they work and as a reviewer i i guess i can only say like yeah they do work but as a user i can't help but wonder like how many people actually use it in these different modes lenovo is like the only company that would ever make something like this because they just make so many products that

probably nobody buys off axis that screen is blue yeah the screens are not color matched like at all um yeah so it's running a 15 watt i7 uh intel processor but it's it's the u series so it's 15 watts so like you probably can't do anything that intensive on this yeah but personally like for research purposes and stuff it's kind of fun i think ultimately i would rather just use two Arc instances on my 16-inch MacBook Pro. Yeah. But I was that guy at the coffee shop yesterday with it. Did you have a vertical? Yes, I did. So you had the keyboard in front of you, a screen in front of you, and then on top of that, a second screen because of how you had it oriented?

Oriented? Oriented, yeah. That's weird. Thanks. It is. What were you using it for oriented oriented yeah yeah that's weird thanks it is what were you using it for like what were you i was writing the podcast i was doing i was had the script on the top and i had uh the websites i was referencing the info from on the bottom and as someone who uses two screens all the time because i like using two screens i would never use this as my that's what i was looking for that's exactly what i was getting to i feel like we're so generous we're like oh yeah it's like kind of cool and the

origami and the magnets are kind of strong and i would never use this yeah it's cool and fun and i just wanted to play with it so that's totally fair and it's the closest any tech manufacturer has gotten to crumple phone that's there's like seven creases in this thing if not more that's true actually a fact we're on the fast track to progress baby but they did think think it through really well like the the origami thing wraps around the keyboard it holds the pen you know i i can agree with that yeah it's well thought out yeah there are a lot of clever things that they did to make it do what it does. Yes. I would still never use it, though. Correct.

Got it. So, I don't know. Yeah, Fisher and I have had a fun time talking about it. Am I closed-minded? Is that crazy? I just would never. Whatever. That's okay.

What is tent mode? Oh. Well, so there's technically five modes for this, right? Right. Tent mode is the thing that Lenovo tried to push when the original Yoga came out that was the first computer to, computer to go around 360 degrees. For the audio listeners, David has folded the laptop hinge backwards on itself. So now it's sort of this triangle with two outward facing screens.

I'm a tent. Yeah. So I'm a wigwam. I'm a teepee. So at this point, you can just sort of do this if you don't want it to be like

would you ever do that well my google doc is on the other side yeah it's just shining a screen out wait does it not turn off the other screen

when it's in tent mode no it seems badly designed you could play like go fit or guess who or battleship I also want

well no because you can't have two mice doing two separate things you just have to fling that instance back and forth they're not both touch screens they are but it would like pull focus from your mouse if I was like working on something

it would pull focus to the other side if it could run like two separate mice with two separate instances and you could just have two people working on two different documents on one computer, that'd be dope. That would be insane. With that U-series processor.

That would be insane. It would die so fast. On the other side of the table. Yeah, I don't know. If you use your laptop in tent mode, please tweet at David and Mel. I want to see what is happening. Like, unironically,

not just like I have a laptop that can sometimes go into tent mode. I want to hear from you happening on that screen. Like, unironically, not just like, I have a laptop that can sometimes go into tent mode. I want to hear from you if you actively bought a laptop because it can go into tent mode. Yeah. And then you do it all the time. Yeah. I don't believe you exist. Yeah.

Yeah. I also want to note really quickly that when I took this out of the box, everything worked. And then it had 75 Windows updates, which i'm not even joking wow i installed all of them and then everything broke all of the like putting the keyboard oh because i didn't even show you this feature yet so if you want to you could use it like this and then you take the keyboard out of the thing and if you put it at the top of the bottom screen this becomes a trackpad i've seen that and if you put audio listeners david just took the keyboard put it on the second screen and it's like where a normal keyboard would be on a laptop yeah and if you put it on the bottom part of the second

screen you get this thing where either your calendar or your outlook shows up here and then a really crappy like microsoft news thing is on the right side and you can't change this at all i want to make a video on this called this is really cool comma i would never use it you want to make the video i kind of think that's what this is yeah yeah we could i think i kind of we could also like every ces products dream yeah yeah that's exactly what it is you go to ces and you see things like this and you're like oh cool and you just walk away yeah and that's exactly what it is. You go to CES and you see things like this and you're like, oh, cool. And then you just walk away. Yeah. And that's kind of what this probably was. But Lenovo is the only company that actually ships this stuff.

Fair enough. But it's just so crappy that you cannot replace this crummy news widget. It's just permanently there. You can't edit this bar at all. Man. Yeah. It was pretty much Fisher's biggest gripe with the thing. Good for you, Lenovo.

I mean, not good, but still, you're doing things. You're keeping it interesting, and I gotta give you credit for that. I wish I could use Arc on this, but not on Windows yet. So I'm stuck with Edge. Yes, you are. Or Chrome. Or Chrome. Oh, yeah, anyway. Anyway, I factory

reset it, and it finally works again. Oh, that's good. I'm happy for you. There's another problem but i think we should move on let's talk about youtube for a second okay all right so we we had this on the dock we want to talk about this i actually have no idea how they plan on doing this because they had some stadia integration a while ago that kind of sounded like this but the new headline is that youtube is testing games on the platform yeah you got games on your platform uh the idea is uh you'd be able to play a game uh on youtube.com that's the whole idea yeah either on the on the website on desktop or

also on ios and android yeah um netflix did this last year they launched like a games thing how did that go it's out in the u.s uh it's i haven't tried a lot of them it feels kind of like crummy mobile games yeah i've heard mixed things like one of my friends said that they did it one night when they didn't know what to watch so they just played the game and it was like mildly entertaining and then another friend said they tried it and it was like the most janky thing ever so they just never use it again in my eyes it's like the chrome dinosaur game when your internet's out just a really really low priority background thing to do when you have nothing better to do it's something netflix like wants to do to keep people on the platform so that they can serve you more ads or you know maybe after you finish the game all of the shows are

right there so you're like i might as well watch a show they just don't want you to leave netflix and i guess youtube's doing the same thing so the the stadia thing from a while ago if i'm remembering it correctly was actually kind of cool it was a cool idea the integration yeah it was an integration where like there could be a youtube video about a game where you're, let's say, playing through a specific level of a game. And if you liked the gameplay, you could actually like hit a button and it would jump you into that level of that game where you could play it yourself. Yeah. So the sort of Stadia was the cloud gaming thing and then YouTube was cloud videos and they would all talk to each other.

It would be this super cool, immersive thing. And I kind of liked that idea but now stadia is dead yeah it was cool because it was like there were specific integrations you could be watching back when youtube gaming was a thing yeah before they closed that down yep you could be watching someone playing a live stream of a game and they could be trying a level over and over and over again and if they didn't couldn't finish the level they could be like any do you think any of you guys could do this? And you could literally hop into exactly where they were in the game, where their character was, with the same items, everything. That was the dream. They never

released that feature. But then, you know, Stadia died. That's crazy. Google never kills things. That's weird. Oh, we never even talked about this, by the way. Speaking of Google killing things, they killed Google Domains. Google killed another thing?

No way. They killed Google Domains. That's crazy. You know what's crazy about that? What? Is we just moved mkbhd.com to Google Domains. I have everything on Google Domains. Like a week before they nuked it.

All of my domain. Great. Great job, Google. But yeah, so this is kind of a weird thing. Like I could see them being like, okay, well, we made Stadia. We did build out a lot of features in Stadia. So we might as well use some of that technology in YouTube if we have an opportunity to.

Whether or not they actually use any of the Stadia stuff or they just go the Netflix route and make it really crappy mobile games, I have no idea. I have a prediction. It's a bold prediction. Yep. This will be killed in a year well if it even comes out in a year because currently they are the only reason this

article is posted about this is that they are asking people internally at google to test it so it's not public it's not public yet okay um and whether or not it even becomes public in the future we have no idea they could just be messing around but i think it just got leaked that a bunch of internal googlers were like oh my computer just turned off wait okay yeah the headline is they're reportedly testing it so this is something sort of behind the scenes that they maybe are possibly working on yeah so i don't know it's it's's just weird to have these streaming services and be like, we're a weird gaming service now, sort of,

but it's not legit games. It's really weird mobile games. A couple of weird supported games. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when Steam started putting mobile games on Steam, and it was just like, because there was Fallout Shelter. Do you remember that game?

It was like a Fallout game, but it was not Fallout. It was like a little just mobile. Oh, the Android version? Yeah, but it was not even remotely Fallout. It was like a little castle game. Anyway, yeah, just weird. Just more adding weird features to weird streaming services, which is strange. We should place bets on when it would come out and then how long it would take to kill it.

YouTube just killed Stories like a month ago. They're chopping things. They are chopping things. Speaking of chopping things, we also have on the dock TikTok plans on closing down what they initially made basically as a BeReal clone. What was it called? TikTok Now? TikTok Now, yeah. So BeReal, for those who are, let's say over the age of 30 i think tiktok now yeah be real was just a a real time it or is it is a real-time social network where essentially

once per day everyone on the app at the same time gets a notification and has to take a picture and it started kind of blowing up it this was post 2020 i don't know if it's associated with the pandemic at all but it definitely blew up and had this moment where other social networks were like oh they had that that moment that we all have on the podcast is this a social network or a feature yeah is this a platform or is a platform or a feature yeah so for be real it's their entire platform and for tiktok they're like i think we could make this a feature yes yeah so they made their own version of it where everyone would get a notification at the same time. Instagram has it too.

Yeah. What is theirs called? I don't know. It has, yeah, same thing. Nobody uses it, I don't think. It's a feature. I think they'll kill it too. But yeah, I think what we're all discovering is B-Real has a specific kind of like, I don't want to say cult following, but people use B-Real to use B-Real as different as not Instagram, as not TikTok.

Yeah. So people on TikTok don't want to use it the way they were using B-Real to use B-Real as different as not Instagram, as not TikTok. Yeah. So people on TikTok don't want to use it the way they were using B-Real. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm not shocked that this ends up getting pulled, but also B-Real is kind of crashing. to be the sort of anti-social media curated Instagram thing because Instagram stories, which was stolen from Snapchat stories, became just like Instagram became a way to kind of like only post when you're having fun, only post when you look great, you know? And so there was sort of this like anti, especially the Gen Z is like very for this, but like not just posting a curated version of yourself posting yourself in an everyday scenario to make people not feel like comparative against each other

so the whole b-roll thing was like it's going to go off at a random time you have to post it within two minutes otherwise otherwise you get like docked for it um but i think that people liked it at first but then every single day it was just like people at their desk another people in their in their bed another in their car yeah it was just the same content every day and there is still a pretty dedicated community to it but there were reports that the uh user base dropped 60 something percent uh 61 percent between october 22 and march 23 and i think that people are just getting like tired of seeing each other in mundane scenarios because it's like why am i even on my phone yeah that's six months that's that's pretty dramatic yeah it's a pretty uh b-roll does dispute

those numbers uh of course but you know who knows and ultimately yeah i think it's just like a platform and this feels just like clubhouse right right? Yeah. Clubhouse clubhouse had its rise in popularity, like very associated with the pandemic. And it was very much like, Hey, we're all at home now, but what if I just jumped in a room? That's an audio only room. So I don't have to like do my hair and makeup. So I just like show up and people are talking and we have this room of people and it had this really big social moment and then every other social network almost it feels like every other social network went wait a second we could build that as a feature as a feature yeah and one by one they all built it as a feature and then clubhouse which still exists but doesn't really it's just kind of

a crypto thing it's sort of like a yeah a wasteland like yeah like a tumbleweed will pass by and then you'll hear like crypto noises passing by like ah it's clubhouse um yeah the feature exists in some other social networks but a lot of them have killed that and it's it's beyond social networks right it's in slack now like slack has rooms now that actually kind of makes sense yeah it makes a lot it's called huddles and and rooms yeah i believe yeah beyond just social networks just all these applications were like wouldn't make sense just to have an audio room and it was a reaction to the pandemic because people were saying they missed the like random coffee or like a water just water cooler conversation yeah so it became a space where you could just drop in and sort of

just like talk to people and it was really popular during the pandemic because people are isolated i also have this really depressing story about clubhouse that i want to just say really quickly so right when it's getting popular i didn't really know what it was so i downloaded it i was like in my apartment with michael we were just sitting in the living room i go into it and there's a room called quiet room and there were like thousands of people in it i was like oh so i dropped into the room and everyone was on mute and i was like man this is so cool really strange it's like weird it's like a weird human experience thing where everyone's alone and everyone's lonely but because you're in this silent room this quiet

room you know that there's all these other people that are having the exact same experience as you and that's like heartwarming in a way and then i found out i was completely wrong and it was just a follow for follow thing it was like you go in the room and follow every single user and then every other user follows you oh you had this like wholesome like yes unity moment yeah like oh no this is just f for f because i looked it up and i was like this is so cool and i looked it up like quiet rooms on on clubhouse and there were all these articles they're like follow for follow quiet rooms and i'll say oh my god i like how follow for follow is like a forever thing in the internet yeah it'll always be a thing it's always been a thing yeah wow so yeah um i don't know why TikTok is closing it down.

Like, I don't know. Because it was just, like, never caught on. The same reason YouTube's killing stories. It still seems weird to close down features that already exist that you don't really have to, like, maintain that much. I think it's just, like, code bloat. Yeah. It's just, like, bloat on this platform that they don't... If they want to focus on their core thing,

they might as well just remove the distraction. I can see YouTube closing stories because I got a random YouTube story in my feed last week, but only one channel that I'm subscribed to ever post stories. And so it's just weird having like one and then a bunch of white space. And I think that's why YouTube closed that down for sure. The TikTok thing I have, i have no i don't i don't even have tiktok so i don't even know what it looked like before but i never even saw this feature oh well literally never even saw it there you go that's probably why they're closing it down but we should we got a bunch more to talk about we should take a break uh but of course that means we should do our uh

first trivia question yeah trivia okay trivia dude so first question twitch is obviously wildly popular for gaming streamers which youtube responded to by launching youtube gaming yeah it was launched in 2015 when was it discontinued and just made part of the YouTube app? Oh, man. Yeah, they had a separate app. Yeah. There was a separate YouTube gaming app. Yeah.

Briefly. For less than a year, I think. I mean, I don't know how long. No, that was, you'll get one point for the year, two points if you get the month as well. Oh, man. Yeah. That'll be a shot in the dark, but I'm going to try. I bet Andrew gets it when I ask him later.

He might know. He might know. He might know. He might know. I mean, I could tell you that it died. I couldn't tell you when, but I'm going to try. I remember reading the news article about it coming out and downloading it immediately when I read the article. I never used it again.

I remember seeing that it was a separate app and I went, ah, not going to use that. Doomed. Yeah. I was working a really boring data entry job, so it was the most exciting part of my day. That's why Intel liked that. That wasn't Intel. That was the worst company, if there could possibly be one. Anyway.

Well, we're going to do the answers at the end, so we'll be right back. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fizz.ca.

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Last week was a shockingly busy week for devices. Not just last week, but this time of year is usually quiet. Weirdly, it's really busy. Summer. Yeah yeah we had to review all the all the new apple stuff and then last week we had two new pixel products the pixel fold and the tablet and just yesterday hopefully maybe we published the zen phone 10 review yeah we definitely didn't never mind but. But, should I read this? Well, I have thoughts on it. Well,

that review may be later, but hey, the pod people get a little bonus because it'll be earlier on the pod. That's true. Yeah. That's true. So, what do you want to do first?

Yeah, so, what do you want to do first? I mean, I guess the Pixel tablet we can do first. Okay. That's a simple one.

The Pixel tablet, the review is out. It's, it's about what we thought. You know, no real dramatic surprises here. It's an Android tablet. It's a $499 tablet that comes with the dock in the box.

And the dock is like this magnetic speaker dock, which has pins and you just pop it on there and it becomes like a home hub. You pop it off and it's a tablet. Cool. My main discovery when actually using it for a while was the speaker dock is not that great. It's fine.

The speakers themselves on the tablet are completely lacking any bass. They're very tinny. So when you pop it onto the tablet dock, it actually sounds much better because you get all this bass because it's a much larger driver, but it doesn't actually get that much louder. larger driver, but it doesn't actually get that much louder. And so when I compare it to like the $229, obviously it's pricey for a home speaker, but it's, it's cheaper than the tablet. When I compare it to that, uh, Nest Hub Max speaker, the Nest Hub Max is much louder and has better mics from far away and can be a security camera, which the tablet can't, and is on 24-7, but you can't pop it off and use it as a tablet. So, you know, it kind of exists at the top of the Home Hub lineup,

but at the bottom of the tablet lineup. I'm curious if you have thoughts on it, but I thought it was all right. I think the Nest Hub Max has better audio, though, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, like a lot better speakers. Yeah, definitely. So you're really paying, like, almost, actually more than double to have the

tablet for the ability to pop it off and use it as a tablet anywhere yeah that's sort of the weird sort of thing with this product is that if you remove the separate like that you can buy another speaker dock separately for 130 if you removed this the whole speaker dock thing from it and you were like oh this is a 270 pretty good pixel tablet you'd be like so this is a really good price for an android tablet it's running a tensor chip it's like pretty good like very good price for a tablet but in my head and i think this is how google is marketing this thing it is a well i guess they're marketing as the pixel tablet but i see it as a home hub that you normally use as a home hub that every now and

then you're like i want to watch netflix on the couch every now and then you're like i need to move the ingredients for this recipe over to the other side of the kitchen so you move it over there and i don't think google really wants you to take it on the road that often they just sort of like added a usb c port so that if you did that you technically could do you think they should have done it the other way around like right now the only way you can buy this tablet is as a 500 bundle with the dock do you think they should have sold it as a 300 tablet without the dock i think that i would find that easier to recommend i think the dock being 130 is ridiculously expensive especially considering the speakers aren't good

if the speakers were okay and here was another thing too there's a story that went out that said google removed the wi-fi chip in the dock they originally were going to put its own chip in the dock so that it could be a separate smart speaker which makes a lot of sense if you've been nice because you can buy these separately right so if you could have these just like they're basically home speakers just sitting around your house and even if you didn't have a pixel tablet on it you could be playing music from it you could be using them as assistants 130 bucks for a smart audio speaker is about what a smart audio speaker of that quality costs you know like a nest audio is like what like a hundred dollars not even yeah i think they're like a hundred dollars they have good audio so if you if you

could basically buy a nest audio that you could also pop a tablet onto to charge and use as an interface talking about the little one or this one the nest audio that one yeah how much is a hundred dollars a hundred dollars yeah for 130 like that's okay but the fact that it's a 130 dollars for a thing that is a brick it's a brick when there's no tablet when there's no tablet on it yep it's like why would you buy extra of these like you're just gonna have things plugged in that do literally nothing unless you figure that oh maybe i'll move the tablet over here's a here's some other context uh-huh for the same money you could buy a nest hub for one room and a nest hub max for another room and still have money left over yeah because the nest hub is 100 bucks and the nest hub max is 230 bucks that's 330 bucks better audio on the matter of

fact toss in another nest hub that's 330 bucks you're still under wow 430 bucks so you have a nest hub in the bedroom a nest hub in the living room, and a Nest Hub Max in the kitchen. Or you could put a Nest Audio somewhere. Yeah, exactly. And you're still spent less than this tablet with the OneDoc. That's crazy. So it's like, it feels like because it's a tablet, it's a really good price.

Yeah. But it is very interestingly placed. Yeah, I have a question about that. Yeah. So you know how sometimes like people will release a product and they can charge whatever they want because it's like the only thing of that product is this one of those moments where because there's nothing that's a one-to-one it's the same i don't think they just charge whatever they wanted i don't think that people want android tablets badly enough that they can charge whatever they want for this you know the only thing that could convince

me yes is there was that moment on stage at Google I.O. where they sort of teased it at first and they showed the tablet and they showed it clicking onto the dock and everyone went, oh, that's cool. Including Andrew and me. And it is the only one that does exactly that. And so if you do picture yourself

using that particular feature a lot, then there is no comparison yeah this is the only one you can get so then follow-up question how long does that remain true how long before Lenovo makes already has one been making this kind of thing it's not pops off like off of a speaker yes they made one like years ago and like 2018 Google's is like okay you use the Google Home app app. Yeah, and you use all Google services. So you get the Google one Yeah, that makes like the most sense. Mm-hmm Yeah

I mean as of right now the way my tablet lives in my house is it's on a folio case It's in a folio case all the time and it's just like like permanently. It's not even plugged in it just like Wanders around the kitchen and eventually gets plugged in when it's about to die yeah yeah yeah almost the same thing yeah and the speakers are loud enough that it's actually the same yeah yeah so it's it's just weird because they marketed it as pixel tablet but that's not in my head what this product is it's a nest hub large with worse yeah with worse audio that can also become a tablet. Yeah.

They should have called it Nest Hub Tablet. Nest Hub Ultra Go. Or Nest Hub Tab. Nest Hub Tab Go Ultra. Tablet. If it had better specs, you could call it Ultra. I don't know. Yeah, it's just because it's the biggest screen.

Yeah, but it's 60 hertz. The display's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's definitively fine. Bad off-axis viewing angles, but it's 60 hertz. The display's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's definitively fine. Bad off-axis viewing angles, but whatever. There was a little bit of questions for me, and this can kind of bring us into the pixel fold of the tablet app experience. Yeah.

Because this has been a thing we've talked about every single time there's a pixel. Any Android tablet at all is, oh, well, are the apps going to be better? Yeah. And there's always a small handful of apps where you're really impressed, and then the rest of the apps, you're like, oh, no, it to be better? Yeah. And there's always like a small handful of apps where you're really impressed. And then the rest of the apps,

you're like, oh, no, it's not better at all. And things like, you know, Instagram and Twitter aren't exactly great on the iPad either, but you can keep going down the list. And like YouTube Studio is not optimized on the tablet. A lot of my mobile apps that are on the inside screen of the Pixel Fold,

like my golf app is not optimized. It's just a lot of apps still aren't great on the inside screen of the pixel fold like my golf app is not optimized it's just a a lot of apps still aren't great on the tablet yeah so that's still a thing the new weather app is awesome yeah google made a right they did make a brand new solid yeah i'll give them that but i think that's specifically for you yeah i always talk about weather apps so maybe they're listening but we can talk about the pixel fold because this has been in my pocket for uh what almost two weeks now yeah and uh the review of it is also out and uh it's a weird phone that i kind of actually like a lot but i realized i won't be recommending to most people also fun fact uh i played a beach tournament over this past weekend and this this phone was in my bag at the beach for three straight days and it somehow hasn't

died i actually didn't put it in a ziploc or anything yeah i know there's got to be some sand in here it's like a ticking time bomb ron amadeo over at ars technica yeah he literally only used this on his desk. He hadn't even moved it from his desk while he was writing about it. How was mine not died? He should have taken it to the beach. I literally went to a beach for three days.

He might have just gotten super unlucky. He gets unlucky very frequently with a lot of devices. I feel like he does, yeah. But yeah, so the thing about this phone is that it folds completely flat. And can i see it really quickly yeah when you open it there's not really much space between the bezel and the screen it's just kind of there wait um i thought the thing is that it doesn't fold completely flat

it does fold completely flat it doesn't open completely yeah it doesn't quite open it opens to like 177 degrees yeah yeah so closed it is a flat sandwich with no air gap yeah oh i see i see yes it's nice and i do really like that i think the problem is they have this like screen protector that doesn't see the edges doesn't completely go to the bottom yeah which very much feels like a galaxy fold gen one remind you of anyone yeah because they had to add these before they sent out production units while they were like they had them in revere's hands they didn't have these like caps in the top and bottom that kept dirt and debris from getting in and the fold um it's just raw oled underneath the screen protector yeah and raw oled is very, and so I guess

Ron had, like, a piece of dirt or dust that got onto the little bezel part that is raw OLED, and when he closed it, because there's, like, almost no space between the bezel and the actual screen. You're just clapping sand directly into raw OLED on his desk, too, right?

Man. Does he just have a desk that's just covered in sand, and he's just like, I only use it on my desk too right like man so you just have a desk to just cover it in sand yeah it's like I only use it on my desk I don't know there's a lot of sand here I would say if you do buy this thing you should definitely get the like pixel protection for it yeah because yeah here's what I'll say uh clearly Google is very protective they it seems like they sent out a lot less of these phones for review like they are being very cautious with it um i felt like i was reasonably normal with mine like i have some nicks on the top i have some nicks on the bottom i took it to a beach yeah the camera area looks kind of scarred up a little bit it's a little scarred up

yeah i really used it yeah and my conclusion at the end of the day was this is the best folding phone to use while closed. Yeah. I use this phone closed all the time like normal. And I really only open it once in a while when I go, you know what? I've got 15 new emails. Yeah. I've got some time to burn. Let's get into it.

Uh-huh. And then I would open the phone and I feel like a productivity monster. Uh-huh. And I would do that for a while and I'd close it and use it like a normal phone again. Yeah. It's the best at that. Yeah. That's like really what this phone is most awesome at my least

favorite thing about this phone is you cannot have a different layout on your home screen on the inside and the outside yeah yeah so just for our listeners for who are a little confused about what i mean every other folding phone i think every other folding phone, the outside home screen is one setup, is one phone. And then the inside, when you open it up to your inside screen, you can set up a completely different phone. You can have a different wallpaper. You can have a different set of apps and widgets. So on your outside screen, maybe it's a little cramped.

You might have your texting app, maybe your Google Maps, a couple things you access really quickly just on one home screen but then you open up on the inside whoa but then you open it up on the inside it's hard to open guys it is hard to open and you end up with uh a whole bunch more space so you do like two or three widgets and your games and your apps that you use all the time yeah on this one whatever you do on the inside screen will immediately be reflected on the outside yeah if you have three home screens on the outside screen when you open it up you'll have the exact same three on the inside screen and you can't have them different i will say that i like that if you're using an app on the outside screen and

you open the phone it's immediately in that app i like that um but i think that google did some like tweaks to android for large screen devices and folding devices to make it so that when you have it open it kind of sees it as like two displays right because you can't when you have it open on the inside screen it kind of like artificially sets like if you home screen yeah if you had if you had the home screen on your folded on the phone folded and you swiped to your second display that second display is the right side of the inner screen yeah so screen one on the left screen two on the right and the only thing that spans is the google like search bar yep actually weirdly that's the only thing like you can't like you can't place widgets in the center yeah yeah

i hate it and i think they did that this was the biggest problem with the microsoft surface duo by the way is that the microsoft surface duo didn't see itself like that so when you had it open it thought it was just one big display yeah so when you would span apps it wouldn't split them it would just like have missing text in the center you could have missing pixels yeah so i think they intentionally did it so they were like okay this is screen one this is virtual screen two and when you have it open let's just blend them uh but again like you said like the problem with that is that you can't like have different setups and like different orientations of screens you would have a different type of setup yeah just feel a little weird that that would like it's an android phone i feel like

the if there was a folding ip, of course they would do that. Yeah. I figured the Google one would let me change. Yeah, there should at least be a setting for it. And that's something they could probably update. Yeah, they could probably update that. Yeah. It is...

I will say the form factor of using it closed is amazing. Yep. It's more Find N2-esque, which please, Oppo, please, for the love of God, make a global version of that phone because the bands and the VSTs don't support it. No, it's just one better than-esque which please oppo please for the love of god make a global version of that phone because the bands and that's just one better than the oppo you like it better okay yeah yeah i might need to try it smooth tensor g it's smoother on this phone than any other that's crazy i did think that was weird that is weird it's a smooth this 120 hertz google pixel phone ever do you like it better than the fold than the galaxy fold yeah i yes yeah i hate the

form factor of the galaxy and that's because the fold is kind galaxy fold yeah i yes yeah i hate the form factor of the galaxy and that's because the fold is kind of still awkward to use while closed too narrow yeah yeah yeah cool yeah i mean the the hardware is really good um well yeah yeah it's eighteen hundred dollars yeah so is samsung's that's true but But Samsung has a better inside screen, has thinner bezels, which does mean you need a weird hole punch or under display selfie camera. Well, but they had thin bezels before they added the under display selfie camera. Also true. They could have done a hole punch. But Samsung has better inside display.

Samsung has bigger battery and better battery life and faster charging. And the cameras are about on par. Does it have a better software experience would you know no pixel is better pixels got the software for sure yeah so yeah that's kind of tit for tat there yeah yeah yeah 30 watt charging right 30 watt max but as wireless charging pretty poor battery life yeah that's a bummer I've read all the reviews that didn't mention their battery life was as bad as mine but I've continued to use this phone and continued to have subpar battery life. Yeah.

I read Alison's review on the verge and she said that the benefit of using it closed all the time, which she also said it, you feel like you can use it closed all the time is that you'll get a little bit better battery life, but I didn't really, she didn't really seem to go into detail about the overall battery life. So that logic tracks perfectly from my experience. I am using mostly the outside screen and my battery life so that logic tracks perfectly from my experience i am using mostly the outside screen yeah and my battery life is subpar therefore if i use the inside screen more i would have even worse battery life that's my angle yeah that's unfortunate

tough yeah yeah anyway for you fold uh pixel fold people out there you should be the first wave of people should be the them today, which is Wednesday. Yeah. So let us know, tweet at us about your experience. We'd love to know more people's experience about this thing. I like the phone. Second gen one, hopefully will be amazing. Android 14 update coming soon as well.

Yes. Let's talk about the Zenfone 10 real quick before another break. I do have some thoughts. I mean, we, so the Zenfone 9, last year. Amazing. I love this phone. Epic.

This phone, I gave it some awards. I'm pretty sure I gave it the best small phone and maybe the most improved, maybe something else. Yeah, probably most improved. I really liked it.

Awesome software experience. Super smooth, 120 hertz. They put the latest Snapdragon chip. It had amazing They put the latest Snapdragon chip. It had amazing battery life. And very impressive cameras. Yes.

Like across the board. It was small. It had a fast fingerprint reader. And it was $699. And it was a really well-priced phone. And it was the most recent. It was the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 Plus. Right.

Which means it had the best battery life. TSMC. So really good battery life. And after that phone came out, I was like like yeah like they basically made the perfect phone it doesn't have wireless charging but like i don't know the only thing really bad about it is that back coating got so really gross worn so fast yeah uh so then when i got the email about a zen phone 10 coming out this year i was like like, oh, right. I forgot about that. What are they going to do with this phone this year? And it showed up and I like put it on a wireless charger jokingly.

Like, I bet they didn't add wireless charging and it lit up and it started charging. And I was like, oh, whoa, wait a second. I remember this moment. They did the thing. I saw this happen. Oh my God. Yeah. And they did also change the coding on the back of the phone.

Now, I haven't been able to daily it as much yet because i've been doing the pixel folder view so i'm about to switch to it and we'll see how much it starts to wear but i suspect they changed it to make it better and hopefully not wear as fast which if that's true yeah they did everything yeah they basically made the and it's so it's like is this one also 699 it is uh i gotta double check but i don't think yeah it's the same price that is insane yeah i don't know how they pulled this off i love it it's basically like the iphone mini for android users it's got like the max specs it's got but it's got better battery life than the iphone mini by far dramatically better yeah yeah yeah it's like

so good yeah i don't know if you only buy your phones at carrier stores you can't get this i don't think so like buy it online but i think bnh sells this phone but asus is pretty underrated i think their um their camera experience is really good because they don't lean super hard into computational photography so they have more contrast than a lot of manufacturers because they don't go super hard on the hdr yeah and i think that's a good look and they generally score very high in the the blind smartphone camera test this is true whenever we do the blind tests this it kind of has a a pixely look in a way and i think people don't really expect that and it's actually kind of confirmed to be an asus thing

because the rog gaming phones also perform kind of well which are like it's a gaming phone who would ever think it's good but hey asus is getting really good hardware or software i will say one more thing um what was i gonna say they count with new colors oh yeah there there is there's a nice there's a nice green there's a nice blue there's the orange from last year there's a white and there's a black and the red is like brighter yeah the orange red it's more red i guess you're right yeah it's more red yeah it's brighter yeah um what was i gonna say what was i gonna say i wasn't gonna say well marquez is struggling i'll just say uh last year when the zen phone 9 came to our office you know we're we're all seasoned vets here we see a lot of phones so it takes a lot to impress us. But I remember when the Zenfone 9 showed up, it was one of those things where Marques took it out of the box and the whole studio was swarmed.

Like, ooh, what's that? Oh, that looks new. That's different. Oh, I like the way this feels. I've always loved the Zenfones because they made the first phone. I think the Zenfone 7 or maybe the 6. No, it was the 6, I think. It had the flippy camera.

Yeah. It had this camera that like it was facing the back but then if you pressed the button it would flip around it was really cool I never remembered what I was going to say so hopefully it will hit me again later you'll remember that at lunch

but the Zenfone 10 I'm very happy that they did the things that they should do $699 is legit insane pricing. It's great. Like, it's so... Oh, that's what I was going to say. Let's go.

So, if Asus... If I was to, like, make my own phone, Asus did something that I think I would also do, which is in the setup process, when you first get the phone, you go through, like, sign into your email, sign up Wi-Fi or whatever. And then you literally have a menu where it's like do you want pure stock android or do you want our like oh yeah yeah and you get to i don't even if i don't think they even call that anymore it's just like asus optimized oh and it has a couple new fonts a couple new icons

a couple extra features and you can just choose you go through like four or five panels where it's like home screen setup what do you want stock or asus yeah all right launcher what do you want stock that's cool and the whole thing and quick settings what do you want and so you go through and you set up the phone and so right off the box you're already that's awesome customizing it like a true android that's awesome should be it's it's they did that because i think when the rog phone 3 came out um i remember people were not super happy with the gaming the insanely hardcore gaming ui that the rog phone had in the one and the two so when the three came out i remember they made it a big deal they were like we're letting you like use stock android on

this if you want so you you get the gaming prowess and all the features of the gaming phone, but you don't have to use the ROG Vault with all the hardcore. Hardcore gaming mode. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.

Yeah, and then they ported that to the Zenfone on the Zenfone 6 or something, and everyone was like, this is the best thing ever. Yeah, they're still doing it. And it's broken down into sections of the phone. That's awesome. It didn't used to be that way,

so that's cool. Shout out to Asus. Shout out to As Yeah. It didn't used to be that way. So that's cool. Shout out to Asus. Shout out to Asus. I'll test the Zenfone 10. I hope there's no surprises where it's like, oh, it turns out the battery life is trash now. Like I hope there's nothing like that, but I have a pretty hard time believing I'm going to find anything like that.

Yeah. It was great battery life last year, especially for a tiny phone. So that's that. Cool. Let's take another quick break, but we should of course do one more trivia question. This is new light colors from last week. No, this is the same as last week. Okay.

I think. Trivia. Maybe. Pink trivia. Pink trivia. I like it. Sparkly. It's fun.

Magenta. Yeah. Anyway, fun fact guys. WWDC wasn't always called WWDC. Really? The first one, in 1983, was called A. Macintosh Developers World Gathering, the MDWG B. The Apple Independent Software Developers Conference, or AISDC. C, the Santa Clara Developers Symposium, SCDS.

Or D, the Global Electronic Information Coders Open House, or the GEICO. Geico. The Geico. The Geico The Geico I want it to be that one It can't be but I want it to be That would be so funny It could be I don't know

LS questions are often LS questions are the one that leave you Staring at your bedroom ceiling at night Yeah this is an interesting one Because I don't know the answer I was going to say Macworld. Cool. Well, with that,

we shall take a break. Be right back. You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon or they could be late for the bus. You never know.

Ambition is on the inside. So that thing you love, keep doing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. In times like these, that's why over 38,000 businesses are already setting their future plans with NetSuite by Oracle. This top-rated cloud ERP brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, and more onto one unified platform, letting you streamline operations and cut down on costs. With NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting tools, you're not just managing your business, you're anticipating its next move. You can close the books in days, not weeks, and keep your focus forward on what's coming next. Plus, NetSuite has compiled insights about how AI and machine learning

may affect your business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, welcome back. Let's talk about EVs. Welcome to the Waveform podcast.

Way-E-V-form. The EV section. Yes. There's really only one piece of news that matters in the EV world in the past couple weeks because it's been happening over and over and over again. Every day. As dominoes continue to fall and hit each other

and knock over other dominoes and more dominoes will continue to fall in the future probably between by the time we record this and this comes out there will be another domino definitely but the news is there are two basically competing charging standards in north america for electric cars there is tesla's port which you've all seen on Tesla's. It's called NACS, North American Charging Standard. And then there's the other one, CCS. I mean, there's some others that you've probably seen in some other cars, but CCS is the other big one for fast charging. And that's the one that you see for public charging

and every other EV that's not a Tesla. And we've talked at length about this and how there is a big difference between the quality and availability and uptime and reliability and ease of use of the Tesla supercharger network and every other public charger network. So the news is all these EV manufacturers are slowly actually pulling the trigger on signing a deal to have their cars use Tesla's supercharger network. a deal to have their cars use tesla's supercharger network yeah and that includes them starting to ship cars with tesla's nacs port yeah in 2025 amazing and giving them access to thousands and thousands of superchargers not just the like seven that we have with the magic dock yeah but actual like native hopefully maximum fast charging. Yeah. And that is a big deal. So that started, I guess, maybe it was last week, with Ford signing a deal.

Yeah. They did this whole event on, I guess it was a Twitter space. Twitter space. I think it was two weeks ago. Probably something like that. Yeah. I think shortly thereafter, GM announces that they're also going to do it. So when Ford does it, you're like, wow, F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E just got better

then GM does it and you're like oh wow so now the Hummer EV is in there too the Cadillac Lyric whatever other GM stuff is under there still not as many cars as there are not a ton but like hey that's two big companies that are actually going to do this that's cool and then more dominoes fall

and more dominoes fall so now what do we have? we got Rivian saying they'll move over. So R1T and R1S. Yeah. And then R2. R2, when that platform launches, that's going straight to NECS. Oh, yeah. Straight to Tesla's port.

So that's cool. You got Volvo. Volvo's moving over and Volvo owns Polestar. So that means Polestar's are going to be moving over to Tesla NECS. They haven't said it yet, but I'm sure they will. Logically, it checks out. Word on the street is Hyundai is thinking about it. Yeah, they've been evaluating.

Which I wouldn't be shocked if that domino fell. And that also meant IONIQ 5, IONIQ 6, all of the EV6s, all of those, those all fall. And those all get better in 2025. Like that is a lot of shake-up in the world of north american ev plug charging standards yeah it's great there's a couple funny things about this one it's just funny that of course tesla called it north american charging standard when it was literally just their forecasting and ccs stands for combined charging system um so it's funny that it's becoming the standard another funny thing they just started rolling out the magic docks which allows nacs to like

port over to ccs and that's going to be potentially irrelevant if every single car starts using it's good for everyone who's already bought an electric car with ccs yeah totally you know the rivian i have now all the other cars that are out now, those will be fine to use on a couple of chargers on Tesla's network. The other funny thing is that Teslas in Europe have to legally use CCS. They all use CCS. This is why I always preface this by saying this is a very

North American thing we're talking about, because in Europe it's like, oh, we've all already had the same port on all the cars. We've all had CCS for a long time, yeah. So, there was a video by, who's that guy that makes like two hour videos on blenders technology connection connections yeah my favorite channel yeah he made it he made a video because he his friend bought an ionic 5 and he was like this is an opportunity for me to make like three video three two hour videos about electric cars okay um so he made a video about

nacs versus ccs kind of and like all the technology behind it and you just see like the size of the cabling and like the ports and everything and it's just hilarious how much smaller and like more efficient tesla is able to be it really is um so that port is just way better so i feel like if people like people moving over to it is both going to be like we did our road trip right and i had a terrible experience in the mustang machi because of the ecosystem of chargers um and now it's like if you can you can basically buy any electric car you want the biggest problem that the biggest reason that it felt bad to recommend anything but a Tesla was if you drive more than 250 miles on any given day, you're going to have a bad time.

Any road trip. Yeah. Yeah, and I made that video on the Autofocus channel about how electric cars are really hard to recommend, not like many could argue Tesla doesn't make the best electric cars, but they are by far the best selling because the infrastructure, the availability of these easy to use chargers is so dramatically better for them. And so, yeah, this news is a win for everyone, I believe. It's a win obviously for Tesla because not only are they going to get a bunch of licensing money, but I believe they get a bunch of government money because now they're eligible because hey we make chargers for everyone so that's huge for tesla it's huge for all of us because if we are going to buy an ev we want better charging infrastructure and we all just got it and all

the car companies who make evs who to themselves are saying we make a better car than tesla yeah but the only reason they don't buy ours is because tesla is a charging network yeah well guess what now we have a lot of the charging network available to us so maybe they'll buy more of our good cars yeah so it's great too i mean we'll probably see some sort of a down the line effect of like how many overcrowded chargers are they going to be yeah many people are going to sign up and and not be able to actually charge on them? Who knows? But I just feel like it's a win at the surface.

Yeah, so some good news too is that ChargePoint, EverCharge, and SKCignet, there may be even more, but they're these third-party chargers. Like Brandon and I, when we were doing the CV road trip with the Maki, we probably stopped at seven different brands of third-party car chargers on the road,

which was crazy. The amount of third parties that there chargers on the road which is crazy the amount of third parties that there are that do electric car charging is crazy none of them care about up time it seems like um maybe they will now but a bunch of them are starting to also say either we're fully switching over to nacs now or we're also going to offer nacs that's cool uh which is really cool so you're gonna have third parties, which is good because if you have a million cars but only 100 gas stations, that's a big problem. You know, it's like Tesla's supercharger network is the biggest in the nation by far. But you already have problems with there being too many Teslas and not enough stalls. And now there's about to be F-150 Lightnings and whatever else is out there.

All the different sizes and types of vehicles, which was already a question mark with the Magic Dock. But yeah, that remains a thing to be solved in the future. A question that we'll cross that bridge when we get to it for sure. And Washington and Texas are now, if they give you funding for EV infrastructure, you have to offer nacs now

they just made that a law nice so so that's like it's like the usbc iphone rule yeah it kind of feels like you didn't have to mandate the port but all right i guess that's where we're going yeah yeah yeah you know what this all reminds me of there's been more and more cyber truck sightings i think it's actually coming out this year. Is that an insane take? I think it's actually coming out. You want to bet? I think we should make a bet.

You want to bet right now? Let's bet right now on the podcast. It is not coming out this year. Okay, this is a great bet. Because we're like halfway through the year. We got six months. I've just noticed like them. Obviously, they've been working on it, testing it, whatever.

But suddenly, there's like dozens of them. There's like mules, there's camouflage ones, they're testing like finished ones. Well, not finished, but dramatically different from what they showed us. Because I remember when I was at the impressions event, however many years ago that was. That was like 2019. Yeah, it was at least two, three years ago. And wow, that was four years ago. I rode in one.

It was very different. The front was just like a marble shelf that looked ridiculous. It was a three-seater in the front and the back. It was a very different looking interior. And the ones that are rolling around now have a real side view mirror, have a real windshield wiper, have different looking lights, have, I believe, removed some of the features, like the deck lid

that goes all the way to the bottom when you open the trunk so i i don't know all the details but it's just a very different looking truck that clearly they've done work on and now they're sort of testing it and uh just with enough frequency i feel like it's ramping up at the same rate where i don't know i feel like they could probably ship them in like six months i would bet against that all right so your answer is no so so the bet is just so we can codify it yeah well the first cyber truck deliveries to real customers happen before or after december 31st 2023 i also want to clarify what are we qualifying as deliveries is it like one or three so or like a thousand remember what they did with with uh plaid yes where they had a delivery

event and the first 25 cars that's exactly what i what i mean like if it does that count if they do that if those people are not tesla employees that counts. So if they release 25 of these, it counts. Yes, because they're going to keep shipping them more the next year. I think that counts. But especially if they have like a delivery event in November and then they start shipping them in December and there's like real Cybertrucks on the road. That to me would count.

I think that counts. Yeah. How much did they say this was originally going to start at 40 um yeah well back in the day when they made their promises i think it was like anywhere from 35 40 to like 75 85 something crazy there's a huge because there's a single motor dual motor triple motor versions there was different battery sizes There's all kinds of things that they promised. They said it starts at $3,900, so $40,000. My additional prediction is that will not happen. Oh, no, yeah.

They're going to start with the most expensive triple motor variant. For sure. No, but I don't think it will ever sell for $40,000. Yeah, that's also probably a good bet. Yeah. I think they're going to pull a Rivian and jack up the price by $20,000. I mean, this happened with the Model 3, right? They promised that they're going to make several different versions,

and they start with the most expensive, highest margin version and work their way down. And whether they get to the bottom or not, who knows? But the price of the Model 3 has fluctuated in real time, depending on the week. But I feel like the Cybertruck will never... They won't even... They'll just be like, we had to jack the price by $20,000, did like that's exactly what we've done 20 grand the fit so I'm gonna cheapest one would be I think the cheapest one of this is gonna be like 55 or 60 yeah I could say yeah I agree they said they could make it cheaper because it's like a solid piece of metal that they don't

have to sculpt and whatever and that's why it's all jagged but I don't think that i don't think it's gonna make it cheaper they added like seven years of development with this thing that they have to make up the r&d costs for a lot they also do have an absurd number of pre-orders though i don't know how many people are actually going to follow through with them it was like like 100 bucks to get in line or something like that so it still is you can order right now i just yeah a lot of people are in line okay so if 25 of these come out this year that counts should we set a number is 25 i think 25 is a 25 is a very number okay i'm still saying no you're saying yes i'm saying they will david i'm saying no ellis absolutely not marquez stands alone an optimist have you seen that uh that tom scott video where he goes to the the building in texas and it's like a scam like like the the building the empty like the blueprints he submitted they

were like inches instead of feet so what was supposed to be like a 90 story building is a three-story building no that's that's the gist of it it's like this weird looking skyscraper the guy submitted plans to a developer and just in like did the the one tick instead of two ticks for inches instead of feet and then built this tiny building for way over price in diptown with the rest of the money that's what the cyber track is going to be elon's going to hand out a bunch of matchbox hot wheels size cars and be like why don't we think we are seeing a lot of them now yeah we see yeah there's one in and out yeah in the world of uh of like auto blogs and like spy shots there's like a really high level of like there's a there's a bunch of spy

shots of the new porsche 911 which people suggest that they're gonna make a hybrid 911 as their next uh flagship sports car and there's been like a handful of them spotted at the nurburgr ring and all the articles i'm reading are like yeah this is going to launch in 2023 i'm like what there's okay that seems like a really fast turnaround which is like they're testing a like a spy kitted camouflaged version of it now and by the time they ship it in three four months they'll be finished testing it it'll be good to go and that seems to have a super high degree of confidence. Why isn't Cybertruck getting that?

Because it's Tesla. I don't think that they're going to. I agree. They're going to build up the hype even more. I don't think even if it's ready, they're not going to release it this year. You think this is more of a marketing plan? And I think it'll be ready to go maybe early next year if that's the case. But I don't think they're going to be like, we got it?

Okay, good. Ship it. It might even be an opportunity for like people to pre-order more like elon to be like yeah just like they're like oh if we just put them in the wild people will think maybe it's actually going to come out soon and so people get back on and pre-order so they can lock in their pricing or whatever yeah that's a good angle i like that possibility it's definitely like i don't think we saw this much public testing with any previous Tesla because Model 3 was kind of a surprise development

and Model S gets a refresh once in a blue moon so it's like this is a unique instance where they could totally just use it for marketing but yeah I don't know so between that and the Roadster Roadster I've just given up hope I think they just never started developing that again.

I'm not going to say never. I think there's a drawing on a meeting room whiteboard somewhere, and I think that counts as development. Okay. That's about it. Franz, feel free to prove me wrong, bro. We'll see the little quad that they drove into the Cybertruck before we see the Roadster.

That is a hot take. That is a hot take. a hot the cyber quad or whatever quad definitely doesn't come out that's funny uh okay yeah i think that's a good bet yeah anyway so yeah it's like i think this whole uh necs thing insanely good for tesla because they basically get to become the gas station like it's kind of a small it's a very smart play to have the best infrastructure and then release a car and then everyone buys that car because they're the only ones with the good infrastructure but once you've like saturated the market enough where so many people have teslas it's such a household name they're

bigger than every other car company by far yeah then you can be like okay like we've sold i mean we're still going to sell cars but like we've kind of like we're sort of plateauing a little bit so then switch over to be becoming the gas pump because now you can like even with the magic dock you know you have the tesla app you can pay tesla for energy subscribers tons of people have been wanting to use that networking now you just have a price tag and you just let it loose. And then now they get the licensing from MNACS, which is going to be basically the standard. They get the gas, the electricity money from everyone that's charging. That company is going to the moon.

They finally have money. Yeah. Maybe they can develop a sports car or something. That'd be cool. Like one that they showed off seven years ago yeah 2017 god that's things

I don't want to think about it I don't want to think about it it's never happening okay well we can end it at that I think that's that's probably a good bet I don't know if we have any stakes for this bet but I'm the only one on my side of it so let's not make it too crazy. Yeah, you're standalone.

And with that, let's do trivia. Let's finish it up. I have two whiteboards, because I have Andrew's. Oh, I've got one over here. I need one of those markers. You have one over there. Actually, give me the other one. I'll give you a marker for a whiteboard. Okay. While they get their whiteboards out, Adam and I

have an important trivia announcement to make, and that is we need your help. We have a very exciting trivia special coming out in the next few weeks. But before we can make that episode, we need to know how you feel about tech stuff. So if you go on the Waveform Twitter, if you go in our Discord, the Waveform channel in the MKBHD Discord, you'll see a link to a Google form. Fill it out if you have a few minutes. It doesn't take that much time

at all. It's pretty simple questions, but it will make our next trivia episode even more fun. Can we reveal the formats? I think that even more fun. Can we reveal? That's all smarts, but also a lot of data. Can we reveal the format? I think that would be fun.

We can reveal the format, but I don't know how to do it because Jono was like, you can't use the words. We're not going to get sued. All right, without using the words, do you guys know that game show where Steve, the guy with the mustache, points at the board and goes

we asked 100 people what they think of this survey says yeah so we're gonna do something like that we just need those people to say the things about tech we asked 100 and we asked all it's honestly going to be thousands of mkbhd fans survey or... We can say Survey Says. Probably, right? Are they going to get sued, y'all? Survey Says. Look, Mustache Man knows people. Yeah.

I also want to say... There's so many pirated clips of that show on anywhere. I was... I don't remember where I was yesterday. I was somewhere. Oh, I was in a restaurant. And Family Feud was playing on the big TV. And for like the four minutes that I was watching...

Oh, wait, not Family Feud. Family Fight. That's just different. That's the the family fight is the one and it's always sunny anyway yeah so i was playing on the tv and i didn't see anyone like guessing questions or anything it was just steve harvey like dancing with one of the like people from the from one of the families oh people love his outtakes the entire time they were just like dancing that's the beauty of steve harvey as a game show host is when he needs to he can just be like a hawk about the rules and be like we're here to play the game and then other times he's just like messing around this is my show and i'm going to use my 30 minutes how i want oh yeah anyway it was honestly he's he's a game show maestro as a producer of this show i i look up to

steve harvey immensely and the team shout out to the team only that way hopefully yeah if you're a lawyer from cbs please don't come after us okay cbs tbs abc shmebs anyway it's gonna be fun if you uh answer the questionnaire uh there's a link on twitter it will be on our discord as well show notes um but yeah so that way we can go like survey says and then we have like a lot of data a lot of smarts and also a lot of data that bell sound for sure all right so score of this trivia round oh Marquez has 19. Andrew has 18. David, in the lead with 23. Let's go, baby. I need a game show to catch up. First question.

Twitch is wildly popular for gaming streamers. True. YouTube gaming was launched in 2015, but when was it discontinued and imported into regular YouTube? You will get one point for the year, another point for the month. You do not look confident Marques My train of thought is I have a

A freight train Meaning it's very slow Ow To get started But once it's going I can't really change it And boys are full of good stuff Yeah

Hopefully It doesn't catch fire It interrupts traffic everywhere Spells Chemicals everywhere Anyway Okay Oh we both said 2017 We both said 2017 Okay It interrupts traffic everywhere. Spells chemicals everywhere. Anyway. Okay.

Oh, we both said 2017. We both said 2017. Okay. I said March. I said January. All right. Wow. O for O.

Was it 2016? It was 2018. It lasted that long. Yeah, I was surprised. I thought it might have been September 2018. I almost guessed 2019, so I wouldn't have gotten either one. I'll ask Andrewrew later and we'll cut him in here that's it you got your answer yeah i think so flip it and read 2018 let's correct 2018 for one extra point do you know the month

august september so close but you got a point nice yeah let's go three years for a google product that is pointless is pretty good like the google products that are good um usually at least one more year yeah yeah anyway all right question number two wwdc wasn't always called wwdc it's gonna be the weird answer isn? Before that... I'm just writing Geico now. Was it called A. The Macintosh Developers World Gathering, MDWG.

B. Apple Independent Software Developers Conference, the AISDC. C. The Santa Clara Developers Symposium, SCDS. Or D, the Global Electronic and Information Coders Open House, GEICO. Open house.

Oh, it's one of the two. I don't know what it is. I think I'm pretty confident. When you're making a trivia question, does anyone ever make A the answer? It's kind of like when you're answering multiple choice on a quiz. Like, is it ever A? You just by a rule always say, like, C or B. Like, B, yeah.

Or D. All the SATs, isn't there... It's either A. The answer is either A or B, unless I'm wrong, so... All right, I said A. I said M-D-W-wg which is a i think no yeah it's b i don't remember what that was but it's b correct two points two for two was the first one were you trying to mess me up with mdw yes good well this was alice's question so one we wanted to mess you up and two i don't know if you noticed but d spells out geico oh i did not notice that it's

they stopped saying apple or like mac related things so i figured i wanted to keep it with that but the first one being mdw new jersey is called memorial day weekend mdw oh i did bigger than like july 4th i feel like in jersey but interesting that's what i was like that's a joke i think it's a joke but not intended but sure let's go you know it was worth getting my entire vacation canceled and ruined for me to come in and go two for two on trivia this week so take the lead against hopefully hopefully the rest of the episode was good without me, but you know, come in clutch here when I can.

It's a B. It was B, the Apple independent software developers. I knew it. Sorry. John, I almost wrote that. I cannot believe you guys didn't pick Geico.

That's, I wanted to. I wrote it first, but I crossed it out when adam and i wrote this question we decided geico should be an answer and then spent so much time in the thesaurus trying to make it work what was what was b again it was the apple independent software developers conference that's actually okay that makes more sense my reasoning was that at the time that this started mac was probably the only thing you could develop for applications for but because like the the i mean on the ipod you

couldn't make applications for the ipod well this was also 1983 yeah it was the first one it was like there wasn't an ipod only the mac was out oh i see what you mean that's why i thought it was but i yeah the mac came out in 1984 oh because it had the famous commercial 1984 won't be no that was that was that wasn't the first mac though they had like the lisa they made the 1984 lisa is not a mac it's the lisa oh good point do they not even have the mac name that's interesting i'm pretty sure the lisa came out in 83 i'm pretty sure that the 84 Apple release was the first Mac. What products did they have that you could develop for at that time? They had the Lisa. They had

the Apple II. So I shouldn't have put Mac in the name, of course. Because I was thinking if you want it to scale for an X period of time, you need to have it ambiguous enough that it's just like we are developing things. Not it's connected to

a product so i shouldn't have said a but i've yeah but we did anyway i did that's that's the thing we did that's okay maintain my lead but just not be even more maintaining it you know that's okay i don't think andrew's gonna get that one. I'm fine. I'm okay. Anyway. Anyway. We'll run those by Andrew and see if he gets them right. But until the next episode, thanks for watching. And we'll catch you in the next one. Peace. Peace. Waveform is a...

Waveform was produced by Adam... Wait, wait. Wait, what? That's how it starts, right? Okay. Waveform is... Waveform is produced by Adam Alita and Ellis Roven. We are partnered with the Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro-outro music.

Is that not how we do this? It's a part of the Vox Media. Waveform is produced by Ellis Roven and Adam Alita. That's backwards. It's Adam Alita and Ellis Roven. Waveform is produced by Adam Alita and Ellis Roven. We are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Newark, New Jersey.

Way From Home is produced by Adam... Wait for... This is throwing me off. I can't point. Way From Home is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. We are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. And our intro outro music is created by Vain Sil. Wait, is created in it

or is it just by Vain Sil?