Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - NFTs Explained with Justin Maller!

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

NFTs (non-fungible tokens) have likely been taking over your news feed in the last few weeks, as they certainly have ours. With an almost Gamestop-esque rise recently, we're seeing more and more headlines about digital assets being sold for thousands, if not millions, of dollars. This week, we take a brief moment to go over the fundamentals of NFTs and then chat with Justin Maller, a well-known digital artist and Chief Creative Officer at DeviantArt, to see the other side of the coin and how NFTs could be truly game-changing for digital artists like him. Links: To check out Technology Powers X: https://link.chtbl.com/technologypowersx_app?sid=podcast.waveform https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/AdamLukas17 https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com Music by KamrenB: https://spoti.fi/2WRJOFh Justin Maller: http://justinmaller.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long.

From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk, an authorized gaming partner of the NBA.

BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario.

This holiday season, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is counting on your support. CAMH is on a mission to make better mental health care for all a reality, and they've made incredible strides forward, breaking down stigma, improving access to care, and pioneering research breakthroughs. But now is the time to aim even higher. You can help create a world where no one is left behind. Donate at camh.ca slash donate now from December 23rd to the 31st,

and your gift will be tripled for three times the impact. Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. And I'm Andrew. And we actually have a special guest that's coming on later in this episode to talk to us a little bit about our topic today. But first, I don't know if I'm breaking this news to anybody. I hope I'm not the first one to tell you guys this.

But after 28 years of music, four studio albums, and more impact than we could probably ever measure, Daft Punk has officially broken up. And broken up is a weird, I don't know if broken up I think they're just done it's hard to explain what exactly happened but they published a video on YouTube and confirmed via their publicist that they're finished as Daft Punk now I love you guys know I love Daft Punk I've got Daft Punk art everywhere I've got I've just I've listened to their music so much over the years but they've also had such a tremendous impact on like the use of computers and technology and sample culture and just this whole thing. Like Daft Punk is a lot to the music industry. And I don't know if anyone has a more stainless reputation in music than, than Daft Punk has built.

So I feel like we should have like a moment of silence for Daft Punk. That's fair. Yeah. Is that okay? Moment of silence for Daft Punk. That's fair, yeah. Is that it? Okay, moment of silence for Daft Punk. Shout out to the robots. Shout out to the gold and the silver. Now we've got a pretty interesting topic though to jump into today.

And maybe it segues right off of the Daft Punk stuff. It weirdly segues very well, yeah. I do have quite a bit of Daft Punk art in both the studio here and at my actual home. And the concept of like what art is useful and like what to do with art, what constitutes original art worth buying and supporting has been on fire lately with this thing called NFTs. NFTs. Decrypto space. Non-fungible token. NFTs.

I feel like everyone has probably seen the term NFT lately. NFTs. NFTs. De-crypto space. Non-fungible tokens. NFTs. I feel like everyone has probably seen the term NFT lately. I think it's like in the last week, it's every other post on my Twitter feed. And it's getting really popular for a lot of reasons. I think money is the main thing because money seems to drive all the headlines lately. I know there's, you know, there's obviously all the GameStock information and all that chaoticness that happened that we didn't touch before because we didn't feel like we were very qualified to. But this feels a little more up our alley. The big headlines we've seen recently for NFTs are the original 9cat selling for $100,000.

Wow. The NBA is now starting to sell these like small highlight videos of like LeBron Dunks or Steph Curry three point shots. And there's those are selling for thousands of dollars. And Logan Paul just created his own NFT trading card and he sold a bunch of them for like almost five million dollars. So if those are the headlines you've probably seen around, but I think the first thing we kind of need to do is describe what an NFT is in the NFT 100 level course here for, uh, for everyone before we go deeper into this. If this was a video podcast, we'd already have the NFT counter going for this episode. It's a, it's ticking up there. So here, let's just break it down. What is an NFT? So NFT stands for non fungible tokenible token uh it's based on ethereum

uh which is one of the largest cryptocurrencies fungibility just so you know what non-fungible token means fungibility is the ability for a good or asset to be interchanged with other goods or assets so if something is non-fungible it cannot be interchangeable it's unique it's its own it's the original so what we have are unique digital assets and the fact that it's built on blockchain means that it was it would be hard to understand if you were just buying and selling a digital file what you're really doing is buying and selling this idea of the original digital file and blockchain the same way it's worked for bitcoin the same way it's worked for ethereum keeps a log of the owner of that original file based on the token system so there's a history of ownership there is only one original and there is a limited quantity that cannot be multiplied

so that's where this value of NFTs comes from that's why they're suddenly being built on it seems very sudden but there's actually a pretty lengthy history to it and that's why they're suddenly being built on it seems very sudden but there's actually a pretty lengthy history to it and uh that's why they're in the news is because this whole crypto concept I mean I just my last video was about dogecoin who would have thought uh so there's a lot of it being talked about there's a lot of word of mouth spreading around uh and that's the that's the basic idea of an nft yeah I think the easiest way of of kind of understanding it is that it's a it's a digital asset. And because of blockchain, you can own the certificate of authenticity pretty much. And

you are certifying that you own this either original copy or part of a limited run or a drop or something like that. So because you are holding that asset, it could increase or decrease in value as it go on, depending on how much people like it. Right now, in the last two weeks, everything seems to be increasing. It just seems to be kind of like an insane boom of people purchasing these different assets. And I think that's why it's in the news so wildly right now. Because you're seeing the craziest numbers of the hottest stuff. But who knows if it's a bubble or whatever we're in right now.

But there's a lot of things that are starting off, gaining a lot of value immediately. And there is no long-term history to any of it for us to look at. Like in 10 years, how much will this top shot be where Steph Curry makes his 1,003 of the season or whatever happens? We don't know. We're hoping it can stably appreciate in value like currency, but it's hard to say. Yeah. And like, it's a collection pretty much. Like you're collecting things. Collectibles are something that we shouldn't be unfamiliar with.

The fact that it's in a digital world, it feels new. But look at Pokemon cards in the last couple months. Like, I threw all of mine away because when we were young, we all thought they were going to be worth something. And then 10 years later, they're worth absolutely nothing. And now things are skyrocketing. You're seeing Charizard sold for a hundred thousand dollars. You're seeing everything just completely exploding. So I don't know if it's nostalgia. I don't know if it's just the need. It's like a power move of being able to collect things that are super rare, but collectibles have been a part of our world for a long time. And now it's hit the digital market, it seems like.

And that's what we've seen. We've seen the last couple of weeks, our digital artists, I'm sure, who live this have been seeing this for quite a few months, I believe. So the most common question I have gotten about NFTs is, are you going to jump in? Are you going to make one? Are you going to make one? Are you going to create something? And I'll be honest, in the last couple of weeks when I've just been exploring this exact topic, I haven't really had a good answer because I don't know what makes a good NFT yet. Like I see some really cool art and it makes sense and I don't have that exact talent, but I do see a lot of potential for it.

But we did have a really great conversation actually recently with Justin Maller, who's an artist we've, you probably don't realize this, but you've probably seen his art before. It's kind of all over the place in our videos and other tech videos on YouTube. And this conversation to me brought a lot more clarity to that question of, should I be considering making an NFT? Who benefits the most from NFTs? What are they good for? Why should we care at all?

So if you've been curious about it, if you've read about it, if you haven't had the time to research what an NFT is or who should care, I think it's a really good conversation to listen to. So we'll go ahead and play that back and then we'll come back and talk about it later. So this is Justin Maller. So first of all, Justin Maller, welcome to Waveform. Thank you, sir. For the first time. Glad to have you on. It's great to have you here.

Yeah. The funny thing about this collaboration is I feel like people who are listening to this podcast, whether they realize it or not, most of them have probably seen some of your art at some point, probably pretty recently. Would that be fair to say? Yeah. Every now and then, I feel like I like the most anonymous artist in the world. Like my artist just looks like Google images made it when you searched for a wallpaper. I'm like, oh, great. But they don't associate that all that stuff was made by one person.

Yeah. Yeah. They've got, so I have, I have one of your facets, let's see, in my house. I actually have two on a wall. There's one on the wall in the studio. I've had plenty of them on as like wallpapers on devices, like over my shoulder in the background, on my phone, things like that. Like they show up everywhere. But for those who are unfamiliar or who just want like the 30,000 feet, who is Justin Maller and what do you do? Right. Yeah. So I've been making digital art for about 20 years now. I started around 2000, 2001 on DeviantArt, started an art collective called Depthcore, which was pretty big and sort of like the abstract and 3D explosion that happened early

on and sort of the community digital art lifespan. And I went on to have a freelance career after that, building on top of that, doing a lot of work, a lot of different clients and what have you over time, which sort of led me eventually to my next project that you just brought up, which was Facets, which was a piece a day for a year, which sort of led to a second wave of client work and led to me in my current role as chief creative at DeviantArt. That's sort of the journey in 15 seconds of 20 years. It's a lot. I think so. I remember like discovering facets when you were in the middle of it because you're like making and releasing

new stuff. I think it was every day, right? Every day for a year. Every day for a year. So it's like a lot of new stuff like happening. And that's somewhere in the middle there is when I found what you were doing. And it was pretty clear, like there was a lot of tech involved. Like I think when I describe what I do, it's fair to say there's a lot of tech enabling what I, what I create. And, uh, I feel like you're probably in the same boat where not only is it like the tools are digital and the art is digital, but like the medium for sharing and, and producing and creating everything, everything is digital in this world. Absolutely.

Yeah. I think that's something that's very shared between your world and mine is that like, it is a very ephemeral thing. Like the physical meat space doesn't like factor into it all that much. It gets made on computers, it gets shared on computers, it gets consumed on computers. And the people who are into it are connected by computers. So I think there's a lot of like parallels in that digital space between the tech world and the people who are into it are connected by computers. So I think there's a lot of like parallels in that digital space between the tech world and the digital art world.

Definitely. So now this, this thing called NFTs has sort of bubbled up on a timeline. I randomly, I literally first heard about it is the most 2021 sentence I might've ever said. I heard about NFTs in a clubhouse room when I was just talking to somebody who who was getting interviewed about it and they i was asked like what do you think of it i just i had never even heard of it until like two weeks ago and between two weeks ago and now it's become this massively important like movement it's this new way of sharing uh how would you describe nfts and like what you've seen happen over the last couple of weeks? It's been crazy.

For me, it hasn't been a couple of weeks. Like I've been sort of like with this a little bit longer, certainly not as long as most. I will agree with the last couple of weeks, it's gone nuts. It's insane to have something that sort of felt a little bit sort of niche and underground explode into mainstream culture like this, and especially to sort of be riding the wave as it happens it's a weird experience but what i would look you know i i'll assume a fundamental level of nft knowledge amongst people and just say that what it's essentially facilitating is the buying owning and selling you know trading of digital goods which is allowing you know

especially my medium digital art to flourish and be collected in a way that's been reserved previously for fine art. And it's been a really exciting thing to watch happen over the last few months where I'm seeing all of these artists I've known for years and years releasing collections of work that they've poured their hearts into and made just for themselves as well,

made without, you know, the need to, you know, adhere to a client's expectations or even necessarily to a social media audience's expectations, just stuff to express themselves and explore their own imagination very truly, which is something that's really been lacking in the digital art space. I mean, I know so many creators who like they create and they explore their imagination. Sure. But there's always an agenda in mind of how can I sustain my life and my career and whatnot from what I'm creating. And NFTs have just emerged as this wonderful enabling force to give artists license to explore, digital artists specifically licensed to explore in this fine art way yeah there's it's felt like there's also been like another side of that coin which is like all the hype around it like as soon as i mean there's already like crypto hype and like bitcoin and ethereum and all the hype around that but now when you see like you know nyan cat whatever like art piece selling for like 600 grand you You're like, this is a, this is a crazy level. That's going to bring people here just for the hype, just for the fact that there's things that are going to blow up and they want to make money from it and invest. Are you thinking about that? Are you thinking about ways to avoid that or like take advantage of that hype? How do you

think about that? It's an interesting factor to have in a space like this for sure. Um, because things are at a really really high level right now and it's one of two situations either we're entering a new norm where ip that is like known as well as nyan cat or whatever is is truly valued that highly um or we're going to experience a little bit of volatility where more people come to the market more content is put into the market there's more things to be collected and traded by more people with a greater degree of wealth disparity than the crypto hype train and things will normalize a little bit. So it could go either way. We could be in the new normal already or what I think is a little more likely is we're going to experience some

volatility and have things settle down. But I do think that there's a lot of IP out there that has been undervalued for a long time and a lot of creativity that has been severely undervalued for a long time that is starting to get its moment and is starting to become properly valued. So I don't know, man, if you can predict which way of those it'll go, please tell me because there's a lot of decisions to be made, a lot of money to be made either way that goes. Yeah, that's always been a question. Like I was talking about NFTs to some ultimate teammates where we're talking about the NBA,

I think it's called Top Shots. I don't know if I'm getting that right. So where you can buy like an NBA moment and there's a limited edition. And my first question was, okay, why would I buy it if number one, it feels like it's just a file. Like, I don't know if I'm really owning the moment or not. And number two, how do I know if that moment is later going to be worth more or less? Like, is this, is, is this free throw that somebody makes or this dunk

really going to ever go up in value? And over time, as I follow this, like those have gotten really interesting where number one, maybe you can talk to this better, but owning the original is a concept that is sort of new and unique to this, this, uh, this world. And then I feel like I use your, uh, your Daft Punk facet as like a perfect example of something where future events could cause the value of the original to change. True. And it's a risk that you're taking anytime you purchase any kind of collectible media now. I mean, you know, the concept of basketball cards probably doesn't blow your mind, even though you know things could go up or down. You buy a Charles Barkley rookie card and Charles comes out and does something ridiculous tomorrow, the value is going to go down.

Or he comes out and does something benevolent and kind and it's going to go up. That's a risk with any collectible media and it's the risk here. And I think that what becomes really important is that if you do enter this space, you buy stuff you believe in. So if you were to enter the digital fine art space, perhaps you would buy that Daft Punk piece because you have a personal history with it. And you're also pretty secure in its history with me as the creator, you as someone who adopted it and gave it a lot of shine and also Daft Punk being an iconic duo. You're pretty sure that the value is going to sustain in the IP associated with that. If you want to go with something, you know, a little riskier, like if you want to start

to get into the Nyan Cat kind of realm, I don't know how that's going to appreciate or not appreciate. And if you do, then, you know, you bid accordingly.'t know how that's going to appreciate or not appreciate and if you do then you know you bid accordingly but i think that's the really important thing you buy what you like and you buy what you believe in from people you believe in and then you can't go through wrong yeah and it there's a lot of ties into like other worlds like when you compare it to actual physical like cards then it makes a lot more sense um and i think when the question comes up like why would i buy this art piece if all i'm gonna do is like put it in a frame or something like that and maybe even

just use it as like a digital file when I could just download the digital file? And the question is like, OK, when you think of actual art pieces, there is some value to having the original. It feels different in a digital world. I don't know if there's any easy way to explain that like we all know the original mona lisa is worth more than the copies but like the original nft the original digital creation does sort of have some intrinsic value it's just hard to explain i hear what you're saying you need to remember that what you're really buying here is not the file you're not buying an mp4 You're buying the token. You're buying that deed, essentially. That's the way that I like to describe it is that if you were buying a Michael Jordan rookie card, you would want that certificate of authenticity saying that it's real and that it's authenticated and it's part of the

edition that was printed back in 1984, right? Right. Similarly, if you buy a house, you want the the deed you want that piece of paper that says i own the house and that's what this token is a token it certifies authenticity it certifies ownership and it contains the entire transaction history where you can see on the blockchain every transaction that has ever happened relating to this item that's what you're really purchasing is that that deed related thing less than the file itself because we haven't made digital files all of a sudden, you know, irreplicable. You can still transmit them as much as you want, but these tokens are limited. They can't be recreated.

They can't be re-minted. They're done. So that's really what you're investing in. And you're investing in that stake of that piece of IP and its place in the marketplaces as this develops throughout the year. Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. I saw a really good video. I think Elon actually tweeted it and it's like an older video, but of like someone explaining Bitcoin, but in like prehistoric

terms where it was like, you see that rock? I own that rock, but like, I can't take it home with me. I can't like bring it somewhere to pay for something with it. But like, I own the rock. Trust me. There's a history of like who's owned that rock in the past. And now the certificate belongs to me, even though I'm not like the only one with a rock. And then this whole like ecosystem of like, I would like to exchange this rock for something else. And now someone else owns the rock and it stays there. Yeah, I just I thought the idea once you're able to explain the concept of the tokens and blockchain and only owning a limited number of things, that makes a lot more sense for people. Here's my question to you. What makes sense to buy now that might not make sense to invest in now?

What do you think is going to appreciate in value if this whole thing stays stable? I think that what you're entering is a very new marketplace. But I think that what's emerging from it is the part that I'm excited about is not going to shock you. And it's the digital art aspect of it. It's the fact that you're getting these first shows from incredible creators who perhaps if they were working in different mediums would have already been adopted by blue chip galleries and would be blowing up as the next big thing in the traditional fine art world and now you're able to get in some of the very first shows being held by these people in this brand new crypto space I mean it's already happening if you like people were selling pieces for a dollar a couple of

months later they resold for 1200 and the other day they resold for $1,200. And the other day, they resold for 100 grand thereabouts. Like it's already happening, that appreciation is already happening as people are pioneering and trying new things in this space. So I think that if you my strategy, this is what I'm doing, okay, you do what you want. This is what I'm doing. I am finding artists I believe in who have had great careers who make beautiful artwork, who are exploring things that I can see are an evolution of work that they've done before with these constraints removed. And I'm confident in their work and the

way that it's going to go. And I also love owning it. I have to be honest, when the concept was introduced to me, I had the same skepticism about collecting a file. I'm like, I can save that file onto my desktop. But the feeling of owning something and having supported that artist and contributed to the value of that intellectual property gives the individual item value to me as a holder, if that makes sense. So that's what I'm doing.

I'm buying from artists I believe in. There's a lot of musicians who are entering the space where all of a sudden I can own a song. Incredible. It's exciting. Buy what you like. There's a really great artist

that I love called Vayne Sill, or if you want to type it in text, It's incredible. Yeah. It's exciting. Yeah. Buy what you like. There's a really great artist that I love called Vayne Sill, or if you want to type it in text, 20SYL. He's made lots of songs that I've used in videos. He made Ongoing Thing, which is one of my favorite songs ever. And he recently started releasing unreleased tracks as these original files as NFTs. And to me, this concept of being able to like invest in a creator that you believe in has always evaded me. Like if you ever ask, we had a podcast with Mr. Beast a couple of weeks ago, and just the concept of like being able to

invest in a YouTube channel you think is going to continue to do great stuff came up and there's never been any good solution for it. And I kind of believe this uh this whole nft thing might have something to it where i can i can invest in the music that he continues to make and i think is going to be worth a lot more because i know he's good i just know it's going to be good hard to go wrong yeah all right well that's that's pretty much it i feel feel like we've dove into the topic. We gave a shout out to Facets, which is definitely important, but also DeviantArt and everything else that goes with it. Anything else you want to shout out? No, I'm just very grateful for the space, for the collectors within this space and the belief that's happening. And I'm really excited

sort of for the future ahead as we bring NFTs to platforms like DeviantArt, as we're able to give art collectives like Depthcore another chance to shine, to have those artists be on the big stage and have their work appreciated and collected. It's just, I'm very grateful for it. And I'm just really hoping that this does continue, that creators in our digital space

are able to continue to be appreciated and have their work collected and grow. Same, love it. Justin, thanks for the time and for the explanations. Always a pleasure, sir. Thank you very much. So that's been Justin Maller. Again, thanks. Shout out to Justin for not only the time on the interview, but just all the amazing art he's made over the years. Like I said at the beginning, you probably have seen his art at some point. Look him up. We'll have a link in the show notes. He's got some incredible talent and you should definitely be checking it out if you haven't already. That being said, we'll take a quick break, come back and talk about what we've learned. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your

ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. This is an ad from BetterHelp. This holiday season, do something for a special person in your life. You. Give yourself the gift of better mental health. BetterHelp Online Therapy connects you with a qualified therapist via phone, video, or live chat.

It's convenient and affordable and can be done from the comfort of your own home. Having someone to talk to is truly a gift, especially during the holidays. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it.

Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that thing you love, keep doing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors.

All right, welcome back. So we've learned what NFTs stand for, Mitsubishi Motors. the main headlines right now are looking at it as more of like an investment opportunity and like a, I don't want to say quick buck, but like that's what crypto seems to be like, is like, I can make some money off of this and it's super volatile. But like seeing the artist's perspective of this and how this is really benefiting digital art, which hasn't had a median like this pretty much ever, was fascinating. Yeah. I'm with Justin. I really hope that this continues and I hope that this isn't some crazy bubble. I mean, we've read infinite hot takes about how Bitcoin's a bubble and it's gonna crash.

But at the same time, you've read a million versions of Bitcoin will be worth a million dollars per Bitcoin at some point. And it will become this like stable currency that we sort of base all our transactions on. So there there's two sides of it i do hope it lasts my question is you know the clarity of my original like pondering of should we make an mkbhd nft what should it be i think i've gotten some clarity on that and i think there's a little more of a narrow focus on what that could look

like, which is kind of fun. But also I think my first step is just to like buy a couple, like get into it, figure out what it's about. Definitely get into the market. I mean, like, is there anything you specifically have your eye on right now? I actually do. Yeah. So, so Justin was talking about, he's going to be getting into it more. And I think, uh, getting like one of his pieces because i know his stuff's it's good it's good quality there's no way it's not worth it there's a reason we chose him to talk yeah exactly so that's that's got to be up there i feel like there's some music some musicians who are diving into this space now uh vayne sill has been doing some unreleased

tracks that he's dropping as nfts and you can be the owner of the track, and you know that's going to be good stuff because he only makes gold. So I think just getting into that, here's a question for you. I have a random hype question. Maybe this is totally theoretical, but if you could turn anything into an NFT and invest in it now for a gigantic return, what do you think is going to appreciate in value? What would you, what would you buy? Would it be a YouTube channel? Would it be a,

would it be a sports moment that you think just happened? That's going to be worth more. It's kind of funny. You mentioned that because not too long ago on Twitter, when Becca from the verge mentioned she was going to start a vlogging channel, I said, if I could invest in any YouTuber right now, I would invest in her channel. Cause I think it's going to go really well. If I had to pick something that would like completely blow up. Like 10,000 X return. I think you have to have some sort of foresight about something that's going to happen later that will make the thing you just invest in more significant. There's always that thought. And then there's always the thought of just the pure meme of it.

There's always that thought. And then there's always the thought of just the pure meme of it. So like, what is the most random thing that has been created recently? Not even recently. Like, what is a staple in internet history? Like, oh, buying the NFT of the guy at the zoo from YouTube. The original. The original file of the first ever video uploaded to YouTube. But is YouTube going to be 10,000x bigger to the point where, like, now that you have the first video?

Because I imagined, I was picturing, like, let's say I get Trey Young's first three-pointer. And in a decade in the NBA, he eventually goes on to break Steph's record. Because Steph's going to pass Ray Allen. He's going to have the most threes in the NBA. But then let's say Trey passes it. He's made the most threes of anyone ever. Then I think at that point, his first three pointer, which isn't worth much now, is worth a lot more when he's the all time NBA three point leader. Does that make sense? I think that could be a version. I think it makes sense, but I don't in terms of scale. And again, we're on a wildly speculative

conversation right here. This is not financial advice. So let's imagine it like this. I buy the original video that ever got uploaded to YouTube. So in 50 years from now, if YouTube gets beat and goes down the tube and no one knows about it anymore, and I have the original file from the powerhouse monopoly

that YouTube was on online video sharing, I have the original file from the powerhouse monopoly that YouTube was on online video sharing. I feel like it would be the same as if you were an anthropologist and you dug up some like old Roman coin that is from a civilization that isn't around anymore. You're picking up this original piece of history right and i mean that's museum level when stuff goes in a museum you're 10 times that is a good yeah the historical museum element of it i was also just thinking as you mentioned that like what has a human intrinsic human value and i think the fact that we just saw perseverance land on mars i feel like it's got to be something around that like something around the first martian the first soil back on earth the first martian soil because they're going

to send another mission to mars that's going to bring those soil samples that got dug up back to earth that's physical though that's it is physical yeah that's not a physical thing i mean no no but like if you i mean going back toance though, like the first photo or like Curiosity's first photos, they NFT that, they mint that. That would be a pretty cool piece of history. I mean, there's a lot of different stuff. There's, yeah, look at history. That's thinking all that stuff back. I don't see, maybe NASA.

I'd NFT first contact. First time we find life on Mars it's gonna happen nft the moment okay let's nft a verb i'm getting out i mean yeah i'm nfting things i've already started posting pictures i can't wait till i start nfting pictures of mac and see where that goes um i'm investing but let's uh let's dial this back a bit and just like live in a world right now where the MKBHD channel's creating some NFT assets. Right. And like in a serious and artful way, I think one thing that is kind of strange when I'm searching in these marketplaces is there is a lot of absolutely beautiful art. And I've just really enjoyed like going to SuperRare and going to Nifty Gateway and just browsing and like looking

at some really really cool pieces but there's also a lot of like super meme-y ones that look kind of like just trying to make a quick buck so i i don't know if that's having to do with this vault volatility and all absolutely and like i hope that i think there's a level of volatility to it but i also think it's going to even out to not that far under that. And it's going to continue to be something. Just how big is this bubble? I think it'll drop, but I think it'll continue. But anyways, serious MKBHD channel NFT. I think the first thought is like intro shots. Yeah. If you asked me today without creating anything new, if I make anything or if we have anything that could be some unique thing that people want to own, it would probably be, yeah, some sort of intro shot,

some sort of a moment from a video that feels, you know, very unique, very difficult to replicate. And that would be fun to own and people would want to trade and would have some significance to them. Yeah. I think intro shots are fun. I think there are just like moments in videos in general that are fun. Like maybe there's an interview moment, you know, maybe there's a snippet of a video. I don't know exactly what it would be, but I think that that would be kind of cool. It's just hard to,

if I would want to make something new for it, I think. It's funny that you say that because then there's also going back to the history debate of it. It's like the first time you held up the HP Pavilion remote to the history debate of it is like the first time you held up the HP Pavilion remote to the camera. And like, that's a piece of MKBHD history. And you've talked about being able to potentially invest in different YouTube channels. Is this a way that these YouTube channels can start

having people invest in them a little more? I mean, Logan Paul made a trading card of him opening more Pokemon cards and sold a bunch of them. That's hilarious. As NFTs. Yeah. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite. Anxious about where the economy is headed? You're not alone.

If you ask nine experts, you're likely to get 10 different answers. So unless you're a fortune teller and it's perfectly okay that you're not, nobody can say for certain. So that makes it tricky to future-proof your business in times like these. That's why over 38,000 businesses are already setting their future plans with NetSuite by Oracle. This top-rated cloud ERP brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR,

and more onto one unified platform, letting you streamline operations and cut down on costs. With NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting tools, you're not just managing your business, you're anticipating its next move. You can close the books in days, not weeks, and keep your focus forward on what's coming next. Plus, NetSuite has compiled insights

about how AI and machine learning may affect your business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. So that could be a question then. We talked to Mr. Beast not that long ago,

and one of the things he always brings up, I think every time we've ever had a conversation, is if we could just invest in YouTube channels directly because we see a potential and because we see that they're going to be valuable and they're going to carve out a niche that we haven't seen before. We want to get in on the ground floor. Like this is always the lingo about it, but there's never been any way to do that.

And maybe, just maybe this blockchain thing is a way to certify unique ownership of things that we couldn't certify ownership of before. Then maybe that's a way to consider building on it. I doubt this is going to be a tomorrow thing, but that's a really fun thing to ponder. There is like just thinking of Logan Paul's cards, like trading cards of YouTube channels, or like just think of what different collectibles there are. Could we just have someone who's digitally creating like different assets that we have at the MKBHD channel in a, in a digital way. Like, can we have someone 3d render Mia and somebody can own the digital version of Mia or, or Mac? Can someone

own digital Mac? Whoa. This is just all goes back to Mac. Mac's going to make me a ton of money. Mac's going to be it. Yeah, no, it's hard. It's hard to say that that's the thing about it being so volatile is like you go through and you browse on those sites and you're like, I don't understand why anyone would buy this much. Because Ethereum, like I said, is appreciating in value. And anytime you spend Ethereum, you're losing a lot. And that amount that you just lost will continue to go up in potential. So you really have to want that thing. So I'm scrolling through and I'm seeing these crazy like meme, almost like garbage posts where I'm like, I don't understand.

Like if you start there, you really won't understand if NFTs has any sort of future. But then you see like the other half of it, which is like this really new floundering infrastructure of like digital art and selling original moments where it's really, it's much more interesting. And I think that's why I want it to be stable. I'm kind of interested. really, it's much more interesting. And I think that's why I want it to be stable. I'm kind of interested, like, do you think there's going, as long as this stays stable, there are going to be companies now that are going to create physical ways of displaying your digital collections? Like, how would you, the first thing I thought of is imagine a frame that would be kind of like a frame TV if you bought something that was animated. And now you

can display that, but somewhere in the corner, it has like a QR code that proves, that shows your blockchain number to prove that this is the original file. And like, are people going to start having this in their house as originals? That is true. It seems, I think it's interesting to think about. It seems really cool.

It is very difficult to prove in a very simple way and ownership of a crypto asset like blockchain makes a lot of sense and you do definitely prove it through that system but displaying that blockchain certificate is is as a different challenge it's harder like how can you display it similarly to like a signature on a an original painting like bottom corner something like that does the frame have something on the side that has a qr code like i i just imagine because the qr code is so easy to replicate so it's like qr code is easy to replicate but the qr code would send you to the the blockchain transaction

with your name on it or your wallet address. But then you have to prove your wallet address, I guess. I don't know. But it would send you to just a page that shows the transaction. Right. I'm saying anyone can put that QR code on their art. There you go. This is what makes it.

It's like anyone can make the Mona Lisa, but how do you know which one is the original Mona Lisa? You just have this. You just know, like you just know. And that's the thing is we walk into the museum and we assume the one we're looking at is the original, but I've heard all sorts of conspiracies about how it's kept behind some bars and we're looking at a replica.

So I don't know. It's probably even harder in the crypto world to prove that you have the original asset and display it. I think it is a pretty intrinsic thing. You have to find a thing you really believe in and that you really want to own, like a baseball card, like a sports moment, like a piece of art, where it's not really as much about displaying that you got the hype new thing and you own it. It's more just about like believing in it. And you know personally that you do own it.

Although you saying that, I just automatically imagined this future where Pawn Stars is trying to verify on the History Channel where all of them are now 90 years old trying to verify NFTs in the future. And I cannot wait for that. I'll finally watch Pawn Stars again when that starts happening.

Pawn Stars 2051 where they're not going through storage lockers. They're going through crypto wallets. It's the original Justin Mahler. I'll finally watch Pawn Stars again when that starts happening. Pawn Stars 2051, where they're not going through storage lockers, they're going through crypto wallets. It's the original Justin Mahler. I can prove it. Crazy. That's crazy town. All right. Well, we've gotten completely off the rails, but I think it was in a good way. I think the gears are turning and the NFT hype train has at least clarified itself in my head. So that's a good thing. Yeah, let's ask on Twitter what kind of MKBHD NFT people would be interested in or not interested at all.

And you can just tell us to not even think about it. Yeah, let us know. That'd be a crazy one. All right, let us know on Twitter. Again, all the show notes will include all the information and stuff we talked about. Justin Maller's info, again, shout out to him. And of course, all the other links

that we've talked about through this episode. But that's been it. Thanks for listening. Catch you guys in the next one. Waveform was produced by Adam Molina. We are partnered with Studio 71 and our intro outro music was created by Cameron Barlow.