Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Nothing 2a See Here!

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David go off the deep end. First they go over Universal Music Group pulling its music from TikTok before getting into some of the teasers for the Nothing Phone 2a. Then they dissect Mark Zuckerberg's review of the Apple Vision Pro line by line before wrapping it all up with trivia. Enjoy! Links: Howie Adderly Trivia Website: https://www.wvfrmtrivia.com/ Dylan Roussel Nothing 2a: https://bit.ly/48iP9aw Nothing Phone Teaser: https://bit.ly/3ULA7qH TikTok vs UMG: https://bit.ly/48f6pNP Mark Zuckerberg Reviewing Apple Vision: https://bit.ly/3uCFKNk Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the NBA.

BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast.

We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. This week, we got a bunch of fun stuff. Techuary rolls on. No more? No more.

I'm trying. You're not going to make Fetch happen. I think it's still going pretty well. We've got some phone leaks we've got some uh ceo reviews their own product to talk about i thought i thought it was fun yeah uh and we also have some uh tiktok music battles and a new chat gpt feature but first we have an update on waveform trivia remember how somebody made a waveform trivia website that's so good they've updated it massively you you've gone through

it already yeah howie adderley we talked about him last time he made this it's wvfrm trivia.com and previously it just had like stat updates of all of us and a way you could play trivia now he added more intense player cards and like every season and all of the guests which i think were there before but there's also a new trivia section that you can play by yourself that's based on the text sounds that ellis has done which is awesome there's also the typing test that you can do um it'll link you to the app but it also shows the leaderboard and how you can compare to everybody else and it is awesome this is better developed than like most of the media websites yeah for sure the fact

that you can play yourself it's it's pretty great i highly it's in the show notes i highly recommend checking it out doing the typing test yourself playing some trivia yourself and uh checking out that leaderboard oh it also has a it's not just each of our player cards but it's all of us together we get together 37.6 percent of the questions correct is that good um probably not i don't know that's like an f like a hard well yeah in most questions are difficult it's fair you know when you when you ask questions like what do the three stars mean and i'm like can you explain that and then the host says no then you get an f you know you know exactly why i couldn't explain that and And then the host says, no. Then you get an F. And that's going to happen sometimes.

You know exactly why I couldn't explain that. And you know I can't say it in front of the audience, so you're just hanging me out to dry right now. Sorry. I'm sure we'll up our percentages over time. To be fair, I do this bad in regular trivia as well. I do worse, probably. You probably do worse in bar trivia.

Think of it this way. If this was your slugging percentage in baseball i was gonna say very good number percentage and this is fantastic three point percent yeah yeah there are boys that we can make this look good how often i can drive a car without crashing uh no that's not not one of them pretty good not one of them 37 that's definitely not where you want to be you You want to be much closer to 100 for that one. Some would say add 100. Some would definitely say that.

Wait, you said 37%? Yeah. I thought you said 60%. No, guys, step it up. No, no, no. That's not even a good slugging percentage. That's what's easier. Do you know what Steph Curry's all-time three-point percentage is?

37%. 38 or 9? 42%. 38% or 9%? 42%. Jesus. Dang. I would know if his player card was on waveformtrivia.com. Marques Bradley, Andrew Maganelli, David Amell, Steph Curry. Add it.

We're all chasing Steph out here. I think that's what's happening. Okay. Well, yeah. Anyway, check those out. But I also wanted to have a a quick correction from last week i think it was last week uh we were talking about how youtube thumbnail ab testing works i said i mentioned at some point that it was giving you the option to test three different

thumbnails and then testing them among your audience and spitting out the watch time percentages for each one that's actually not exactly what's happening the reason you may have noticed that the percentages always add up to 100 is because it's actually giving you watch share which means it's totaling all of the watch time generated from one evenly distributed thumbnail with all of the watch time generated from the other thumbnail so it's not purely watch time but it's combined with how many views it gets and how how well it gets clicked through yeah like it's a combination i think if the if it doesn't get clicked on it counts as zero watch time right right so it gets it does actually get impacted by click-through rate it's just

extremely confusing think of it this way i'll try to make it simple you have a youtube video you want to ab test you have two thumbnails, okay, you've got A and thumbnail B. I'm going to send this out to 10 people. Thumbnail A gets sent to five people. Thumbnail B gets sent to five people. If all the people click thumbnail A and all the people click thumbnail B, you have 100% click-through rate of each,

then it will purely be which one has better watch time. That wins. But if you have a video where nobody, only one person clicks thumbnail A and five people click thumbnail B, and the person who clicked thumbnail A watched the whole video, but the people who clicked thumbnail B watched 80% of the video, that will have way better watch share. Even though it had a worse average watch time,

80% versus 100, it has a way better click-through rate, five out of five versus one out of five, which will weigh heavily towards total watch share. So watch share accounts for both click-through rate and watch time percentage. Does that simplify it at all? I think two things are true with what we've learned. One, it does actually take into account click-through rate. So that is more of a number

we should be looking at than we thought. Two, it is entirely way too confusing and how on earth anyone's supposed to figure this out is absurd. I don't know how people are supposed to figure it out. Well, yeah, nothing behind the scenes that youtube is ever supposed to be figured out because then it gets gamed but i think if you're a creator who's a b testing this is just complicated enough to accommodate for the different variables that you were trying to optimize for i guess i shouldn't have said figured out i should have said understood sure because like you're getting numbers you should semi understand what they mean at least and we are a fairly large channel and you've been doing youtube for a long time and we just had no idea what it was yeah i guess now as long as uh as long as you see the thumbnail

test pick a winner you can probably safely assume that that's a good thumbnail to pick i trust in the youtube sometimes you got to go with your gut sometimes I just pick that's one of them that's not the winner but all of ours are like 49 to 41 51 exactly so it makes almost no difference to be fair though we don't really do like drastically different which is what we talked about yeah we want to do more fundamentally

different thumbnails that we AB test we've notoriously tested like well what if the background has a red background versus blue or what if the phone I'm holding is titanium versus silver it's like that stuff doesn't really make a meaningful difference but as far as the purpose of the video sometimes you have a big difference in what you think a thumbnail should be but that's a lot more work for tim it is but we get a lot more data out of that tim doesn't listen to this podcast so we can say whatever that's true yeah i mean that's a lot of smarts, but also a lot of data.

I was hoping that would come up again. So yeah, there's that. Well, I'm still confused. So I guess we should move on. Next story. Yeah. But Universal Music Group pulls Taylor Swift and others off of TikTok. And I added this story

because it is sort of a social media story, sort of a music industry story, sort of a music industry story. Overall, just a very interesting story where we're kind of talking about like who has the power dynamics in the relationship, right? I also want to confirm here real quick that they're saying Taylor Swift, but I'm assuming they're talking about UMG's Taylor Swift. Whereas, if I'm correct, Taylor's version is not under umg and therefore almost the entire just they're clearly throwing taylor swift here because she's one of the biggest artists out there but they're ripping out her old stuff that yeah is actually under umg where i'm assuming

her new stuff is still on tiktok because it's not i don't know um i don't think they can pull off stuff that's not someone should look that up so this is very interesting basically tiktok wanted umg uh wanted to pay umg very little for the licensing rights of all these very popular artists umg is like we're a giant music company our giant artists are popular and don't need tiktok to get more popular fair so we kind of think we have more bargaining power which i currently i i kind of agree with i kind of half agree yeah there are big artists who still have songs blow up on tiktok yeah like meaningfully right i agree but i think that this probably hurts the smaller artists that are just trying

really really really hoping that their song is going to blow up on TikTok more. But at the same time, I have mixed feelings about this because a lot of artists now are sort of making music geared specifically towards being that TikTok like soundbite sound. A thousand percent. And then everything around that little soundbite is kind of just thoughtless and they don't put a lot of effort into it. I don't know if I would fully agree with that. I've talked to people in the music industry that say that people are doing that. They're like this is the song on the album

that is specifically for TikTok. It's not even that. It's like the bridge of this song is the TikTok thing. That's what we're going to be shipping to our influencer partners. I guess Lizzo did do that didn what we're going to be shipping to our influencer partners. I guess Lizzo did do that didn't she? Also I do want to clarify I think UMG does own

Taylor's versions. Do they? How is it her version? It's more complicated than that. I've been trying to look it up too. I'm pretty sure Taylor owns the masters but they're distributed by UMG. So therefore could take it off? Yeah definitely. Yeah so the awkward part about this

is that now that they don't have a new deal um the new deal of 2024 anyway uh all of the tiktoks that use the music just have no sound now yeah so if you go back through like someone's library and they're dancing to a taylor swift video now they're just dancing to nothing yeah i mean that's happened a lot of times where music gets pulled off because of copyright issues and difference. And it's always very awkward and very funny to scroll back. But also TikTok basically lives within the week

and then dies. So you don't scroll back as often. What's a week old TikTok anyway? Yeah, TikTok is giving users of those videos the option to select another song. But I feel like that just doesn't work. It makes absolutely no sense. But it's a good point.

It lives within a week. People aren't going to go back and watch it. So, yeah, it's pretty crazy. I think this is a good story of who has the most power here. And they would both argue that they are more important than the other. would both argue that they are more important than the other but uh ultimately i kind of think that tiktok is eventually going to go back to umg and be like we really need your artists and just be like we'll pay the money i don't know i think i think tiktok's got the upper hand here really i would be i'm that they're the marketer essentially not actually the marketer but the marketing platform i feel like and i think eventually if they realize they're losing a lot of views tiktok brought fleetwood mac to the number one billboard

yeah 30 years after the song was released are there a lot of people that it has with mac but right and are there a lot of such cases of that happening or is that kind of uh like there are songs being the number one billboard because of tiktok no no like really old songs oh no no it's just an example of how absurd the pull from tiktok no but look at it look at it from a label's point of view right like in the fleetwood mac example like realistically and i don't know if that song is is part of the umg catalog yeah i was just an example sorry How much money did the label actually make from that song hitting number one again? Maybe $100,000. Maybe.

I'm just trying to use it as an example of how something can skyrocket to the top and if that's a new artist, that artist could literally start an entire career based off of... I would actually argue that they can't though. Really? Because apps like TikTok have lowered the dollar value of music to such a point that you can't though really because apps like tiktok have lowered the dollar value of music

to such a point that you can't actually generate meaningful revenue off of the music alone off of the music alone but becoming like a a known artist that then can tour like i'm there are definitely artists that have started touring because they've been found on tiktok yeah but umg is not getting a cut of that. They're on the record. So UMG has no reason to go back to TikTok. Do they potentially then not have artists that want to sign with them anymore? Because they're losing that opportunity?

Well, here's the other thing. They have been for a very long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are massive. It's also worth noting, like, UMG's excuse of, like, we're doing this to protect our artists. Because there is there is an argument to be made that tiktok money does not pay for sure fair prices for music also umg has

at every opportunity made sure their artists get paid less on streaming yeah every single yeah yeah they they literally they're get there's a lawsuit being formed right now about them lowering the per stream price for their artists in exchange for Spotify stock that their artists will have no share in. Like actual crazy stuff. I want to also confirm I'm not in anyone's corner here. It is just who I think will. I think it would be awesome to talk to an artist, probably because they have really strong opinions on whether or not like the effect that TikTok and all that it's done has had on being an artist, whether you're a small one or a big one. Because I think there's a lot of artists who are like, yeah, I was doing what I was doing. And then I had a couple songs blow up on TikTok.

And now people are going to concerts to see those songs. And that might be a real thing. Or I could just be be imagining that and that's not an actual thing that happens and they are very fleeting bursts of attention that disappear in a week i also wonder how often it happens like how many to how many small artists that happens to i'm so i'm fairly confident there's a lot of examples of songs hitting number one and maybe this is just because i've seen it personally so many times but a song that i look at on spotify is like billboard top 100 chart that i'm like oh that's the one that's been on spotify or on tiktok for the past week yeah that's probably why it's number one do you know the youtuber rick beato i don't think so he's a music youtuber um he's like he's he's cool but he's like um he does these spotify top 10 reaction videos

where every three months spotify has like this new top 10 list of music and it's very often music that i have never heard of before and he has also never heard of before and there's probably a strong chance that it just got popular on tikt TikTok for like two weeks and then spiked it on Spotify. And that's why it's up. And you'll see it's by an artist that has like no other. Yeah. Like everything else is at this level. And then one song is like way above the rest. And you're like, ah, that's the one that blew up on TikTok. I see. Also, sorry, just want to throw this out there. You triggered us. Companies like UMG, and this applies more to major labels than independent and quote unquote independent or medium sized labels. UMG owns a lot of music and and what's the word?

Administrates a lot of music for artists who are dead, for artists who who cannot tour. And I'm not saying like, oh, we need to defend this like large corporations business model. But it is like you can't make the argument that the promo is worth it on tiktok if the artist is literally deceased you know like just speaking of just to say that i think umg or tiktok needs universal music group way more than the other way around you've heard i also well i also don't get why we're making the argument like a one song pops off because there have been one hit wonders for the past 50 years who have made entire careers off of literally Eiffel 65 has one song. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

That album is amazing. Just saying like that has been a thing in the music industry for years. It is, but up until about 15-ish years ago, if you went platinum, or even if you went gold, you were going to recoup on your contract, you were going to come away with a fat check, and you could actually live the rest of your life off that money. Nowadays, if you get 10 million Spotify plays, 10 million, a huge number, that is about 50 grand yeah you have congratulations you have now almost made minimum wage like no i agree i think you're all still just harping on just streaming though i feel like you could have more than just that you have to very quickly capitalize like artists now have instagram pages that may have tons of followers and stuff like that if that sparks from tiktok they have tours they have meet and greets like and it'll be up to the artist to like properly hopefully capitalize on tiktok success to bring them over to something that they can

actually make money on whether it's your instagram or your merch or your tours or whatever it's just how easy slash hard is that actually i probably agree with you that umg like hearing all this umg probably needs it more and ultimately artists are getting the hardest here out of everyone which sounds like what tiktok and umg are pretty known for yeah this sounds kind of like the whole argument for like unpaid internships like but think of the exposure instagram and youtube are the real winners in all of this because now if you want to like make a reel with a specific song you got to put it on instagram or youtube shorts yeah i also well i guess it'll happen eventually but tiktok people will just

no they must have some sort of copyright thing right because you can just upload your own sound and it would probably just taken down i'm assuming it would get taken down i wonder eventually but i have no idea because like if you just use the built-in tool it won't be there anymore total mess when you try and find like original sounds every time you click one it's a whole nother library because not everyone's just using the actual library sound they're like uploading their own and then yeah it's such like this is still a problem it's not as much of a problem as it was right after instagram reels launched. But almost every Instagram Reel had the TikTok watermark in the corner when it first came out. Same with YouTube Shorts. And now those platforms are driving more organic short development.

But I think it's still a thing that people are just using. Because the TikTok editor is so good that people just edit their video inside of TikTok. I think most people use the TikTok built-in tools to do that. If you have an mp3 of a Taylor Swift song and you're editing it on your phone to be in the video, good for you, but I think you're in the minority. There's probably a lot of people just hitting the button in the app.

That is fascinating. Yeah, it's a whole dynamic. We'll see how it plays out. I think Taylor Swift will probably be okay. She's going to go bankrupt from this. Did you guys hear she won the Super Bowl? She did. I literally was in a betting pool

where there was an over-under on how many times she'd be shown on the screen, and she easily cleared the over. I think it was like 5.5 was our over-under. 5.5% of the game? 5.5 times shown on screen, Taylor Swift. Oh, that's way too low. It was way over. That was very low.

And I heard a lot of people say they did a good job of not cutting to her too much. Yeah. Because in a lot of other games, a lot of other of the games didn't cut to her. They didn't do it enough. They did cut to other celebrities watching, but it was very clear that there was a theme happening where they would cut to Travis Kelsey

and then they would cut to Taylor Swift reacting to what Travis Kelsey was doing. We're only cutting to other people to make it seem like we're not just trying to cut the camera c camera d camera a camera b camera a camera c camera f camera a okay yeah we got her we got her yeah they were they it was a thing yeah it was a thing that's funny all right we should take a quick break and when we come back we have uh some phone leaks to talk about and we also not even leaks just a new phone and then uh some ceo reviewing their own product fun what before we do that trivia see how long i can make that pause i love that he responded to you that was very funny oh yeah oh if you didn't know the

announcer who does the nba top 10 stuff on twitter saw the clip i just want to shout you guys out for getting him the clip and shout him out for seeing the clip and tweeting the clip also his name is the goat mentator get it right yeah sorry goat mentator mr goat mentator that's sir goat mentator dr professor goat mentatorire beth third all right so i'm working on a video for the studio channel right now that's about speakers and so i've got a lot of speaker stuff on the brain so this is going to be a speaker question on the brain on the brain oh brain audio okay bro foreshadow i think that's just called spoiling. No, we're smart. We're smart.

It's called foreshadowing when it's smart. Anyway, Andrew, Marques, you guys both have speakers that are part of the Yamaha HS line on your desk. And those are what we call two-way speakers. They have two speaker drivers. That one at the top that makes all the high frequencies, that's called the tweeter, like a bird. What's the bigger one in the middle of the speaker called? The mid-tones. The Twitter. We'll think about it. Answers at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Want to become up to 50% wealthier?

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All right, welcome back. We got a new phone to talk a little bit about. Not that it's out, but it's at least starting to be teased now. Nothing Phone 2A. So we already had Nothing Phone 1, Nothing Phone 2. They make headphones now. They're starting to branch out their portfolio a little bit. And it looks like the next thing they're going to do is a 2A,

which I think we all assume is a budget phone, a cheaper phone. That's what Pixel did with A. That's what they probably should do with a cheaper phone. So Nothing phone to a March 5th is when it's getting unveiled. And they have this like teaser video. It's around MWC. We'll probably get pricing around there. And there's a bunch of rumors flying around about what exactly they would do to make a cheaper nothing phone. One of the big rumors, of course, is knocking down that SoC. So there's a rumor saying it could be a MediaTek Dimensity 7200,

which I haven't personally benchmarked. I don't think I have experience with a phone with that chipset, but if it's a MediaTek Dimensity chip, let's say it's pretty safe to assume it's not on the level of a Qualcomm Snapdragon chip, like a Gen 2 or a Gen 3. I think it's definitely not going to have all the same

AI features. Definitely won't. At a minimum. Really? It'll probably also have hardware cutdowns from the camera. It looks like based on some wireframe stuff and people doing renders based on leaks, it probably won't have wireless charging, I'm guessing. It'll still

look like a nothing phone. But yeah, it's going to have to find ways to cut down on certain things and still deliver a nothing phone-esque thing this is like how do you make a rivian r2 that doesn't feel like you're taking away too much character from the rivian r1 make it see-through make it see-through give it a bluetooth speaker so the render from what i've seen seems like it's based on a mix of this tweet from someone named Dylan Russel that it seems to be like a video almost of like a feature set that would be inside Android showing how something works. I'm sure you've seen leaks like that before.

And it briefly shows the back of the phone and some of the glyphs in this like washed out white version. And then along with the Carll pay video that came out and in the thumbnail there's like this whiteboard-esque sketch people took those together made this really sick looking render that it seems to match everything that's shown in those two things we know about it and i think it looks sick i think it looks really good i think it looks better than the nothing phone yeah um yeah it's like if we. It's like, if we want to try to- Really?

If we want to try to explain it, this one is all black. It has two cameras kind of in the middle top of the phone, and then surrounded by a circle that doesn't necessarily look like a camera bump, just a circle. And then there's three glyphs around it, kind of like a longer curved light a smaller curved light and one straight light kind of typical nothing like bars looks nice but doesn't necessarily follow any form factor and then it has like kind of this black ribbon cable looking thing coming down the bottom but like you mentioned before and i didn't put this together not a wireless charging circle so probably not having wireless charging probably that makes perfect sense yeah exactly yeah i think it looks

great so the interesting thing about this is that camera array it's two cameras so it's unlikely to have a telephoto camera that's usually what they do with budget phones but the interesting thing about this array is that when the phone is in the vertical orientation the cameras are horizontally aligned which is not something that you see on phones that often and the reason is because when you are filming horizontally which is the correct aspect ratio to film in if you are above the age of 25 um you want it i was gonna joke and say disagree and then I just would have made myself look old. You want to be able to switch between the lenses without there being parallax. But because this phone has horizontally aligned cameras when it is in vertical orientation, this is clearly made for people that are okay with filming vertically very frequently.

And I would bet you that nothing is probably going to reference that in their keynote. They're probably like, most people film vertically these days. So we decided to put the cameras vertically. So you're saying, so it's probably a standard camera and an ultra wide. Yes. And they're right next to each other, but they can't be on top of each other. So they're left, right. Instead of top bottom, they could be. But when you're filming video vertically, if you switch and you have slight parallax on the right versus like up and down i think that that translates better it translates better it's the reason that usually cameras uh are above and below each other

because you turn your phone to film horizontally gotcha yeah there wouldn't be more pair i feel like the left and right yeah i guess it makes sense because those dual reflex cameras are always. No, those are top and bottom. Yeah, but SLRs. Okay. TLRs, twin reflex cameras. No, you have a viewing lens and a shooting lens. They're not like both being used.

One is only being used to view. So that's just my. Okay. That's just my theory. Well, here's my theory. Here's my theory here's my theory okay carl pay said this looks cool also and i agree with you just as easy to justify yeah and they said we'll fix it in heart in software we'll just try to make him as little we'll say we'll fix

it in software yeah yeah yeah that's interesting i think it looks decent yeah the irony of this is that if we remember correctly only about one and a half years ago, the Nothing Phone 1 was supposed to be a budget phone. And then the 2 used last year's flagship chip and was relatively expensive. Speed running the OnePlus acceleration that we all saw already. OnePlus took six, seven years to do this. Can we do it in two years?

Yes. Yes, and now they're making an A-line again, which is funny. but i really personally do love the design if this ends up being the uh final design and in that animation that you were talking about it shows the timer um with the glyphs and all of that type of stuff it's like that's functionality the normal one has like 12 glyphs right this has three um yeah i think they're just like flashes and then together they make a glyph i could be wrong oh but well that's what I mean yeah lights I guess okay parts that can light up sorry oh yeah I mean like uh there's three different lights that do different things right yeah if anyone knew more

than three congrats that's awesome that sounds like a lot of things to remember on the back of your phone I love led notifications I miss led indicators on phones i miss that so much so yeah this is still cool it depends how often i mean we could have this this is gonna be a conversation but like a big part of the discussion around the glyph interface was like well we use always on displays now which tells the notification and if you have your phone upside down and you see that you have a notification you you're going to want to flip it anyway. And then there's the awkward part of like, well, it's a flat screen. So if you put it face down, it's going to get scratches on the front. And so it's like.

Okay, two rebuttals. One, everyone has a case on their phone. And I get told this all the time. I don't have a case on my phone. Well, I keep getting told everyone has a case on their phone. No, you're right. I don't know. We're the only people that would argue.

A lot of us have cases on our phones and so when you put a case down, sorry, a lot of people who are going to buy this phone are going to put a case on it. They'll put a face down

and it'll be fine. But the other thing is I want this to be a color, a color thing so bad. Spoiler, we're working on a video where we're using a lot of phones

that are older that have the little light on them and that little light is so useful when it has colors. You could program what you wanted each color to show you and i would i would memorize i'd have like five six colors

yellow for tweet deck blue for this green for that and then they'd all just tell me everything without me i remember the nexus 6 had an rgb led that they disabled before they launched the phone for no reason they just decided they didn't want to use it but it was still in the hardware so every rom in the world was like we're using this now i remember that yeah yeah that was good times and even even when you had like bigger or like the trackball or something would light up and you have colors that would be like that's all i need yeah i just want to be able to look at my phone and be like oh if you put a case on this phone unless it's a clear case you're missing out on the whole point of the phone well i'm assuming there will be cases that are like oh this is a clear backed phone let's give like a clear plastic pack or whatever and then you get to see the lights lighting up in a way that tells

you whatever's happening on your phone yeah i don't like always on display so like just one my note 8 had it yellow was a snapchat blue was an email green was a text that's all i needed it was the best thing ever i wish these could turn colors though yes that would be great although they don't on the normal phone no right so the nothing normal phone uh so it'd be very funny if the budget version had colors yeah that would be incredible yeah that'd be wild yeah i suspect it won't be i think it will be all white leds and the same thing as last time where you can pick one app where if that light lights up then you know that that one app has a notification fine yeah i got a text i still really like how this looks how much do you think it's gonna cost okay if i go nothing phone to how much is nothing phone to actually right now 549 549 wow okay so you go nothing phone two take out wireless charging take out some water resistance

downgrade to a dimensity chip fifty dollars off take out i mean there's still dual cameras on the nothing phone too so still dual cameras and you could knock some screen down and some battery down i think you could get down reasonably to a competitive 350. that would be very competitive that would be a great problem pixel a launch and it was 350 pixel for a pixel the first a a pixel was 350 and then I'm a 3a was yeah yeah first a pixel 350 would be nice it was three there the foray was also 350 which was just like yeah yeah yeah that's the perfect budget phone price but also the, the Pixel phone that year, or those two years, was more expensive, wasn't it?

It's gotten more expensive. I feel like the Nothing Phone 2, the price difference wouldn't be that drastic. So if they could even sneak it down to like $300, they might bump up the Nothing Phone 3 price, though. Oh, that's fair. Wait, let's think about this. Remember the earbuds?

They're just pulling it on us again. They're doing the same thing. They literally already did that. Damn, they almost got me. They upped the price of the earbuds by $100 or something. That was a pod. It was just you and I. We were like, that would be so funny.

That's what they did, and then they did it. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that the nothing phone 3 will be more expensive. But you're saying they'll just bump up the price on the 2 as it exists i'm just i'm not saying they won't is what i'm saying because we have we have a history that's the best way to predict precedent there there is a rumor of what the price might be okay it is the at the moment from what i've some of the things i've read it says approximately 400 euros which is around 430 usd so it's not quite what you were saying at that price and this is going to be a hot take because people always disagree with me on this you have to be higher refresh rate oh you have i don't know that's not where i thought you were going with that you need to be

because like the budget phones now are all 90 hertz plus. If you're going to have a $400 phone, you better not be 60 hertz. And I will personally make sure I talk about that. What if? I make sure. Is that a threat? I'm just saying. You got to be. What if they have some other crazy feature?

What if they have a software skin that's based on dots? Yeah, but that's cheap. You can do that. I mean, you already built it it so you can put it on all your phones i feel like that's what if they made it clear now we're talking now we're talking no i think they'll they'll spend the extra money for the nothing phone 2 to be the differentiator in aesthetics at this price it will probably not be an amazing performer for the price with this dimensity chip maybe i'll maybe i'm wrong i could be shocked and this could be an incredible thing but i don't think it's

going to have the best camera at this price i don't think it's going to be the battery champ at this price i think it's going to be the one that has sick design at this price look at this software look at this clear back look at these this glyph on the back that's what this phone is going to have for this price as its differentiator yeah pretty sure i agree and if you want it to be the cheap iphone you can get the cheap iphone if you want it to be the cheap great pixel camera you can get the great cheap pixel camera this is the me the design one i mean i remember that mediatek was making a big deal about how its dimensity series was a lot more competitive than its previous chips have been because i believe that this is their flagship line and they make a lot of chips

like they make the chips that go in pelotons they make the chips that go in the amazon alexa i've used a peloton it's not it's not sorry well yes i mean that's not supposed to be a phone soc of course of course i do i mean i do see their dimensity 7200 ultra is going to be a four nanometer chip and they of course want to be a 4nm chip. And they, of course, want to be competitive with Qualcomm. And I'm sure it's going to give them better price flexibility than going with a Qualcomm chip. I'm sure that's very helpful. I'm like Googling trying to find what phones the Dimensity 7200 is in.

And I'm not seeing any yet. But I just have a sneaky feeling it's not going to be mind-blowingly good. And that's going to be fine. Atly good and that's going to be fine at this price that's fine it just has to be fine yeah i think it'll be fine yeah i mean again it's like you can't really tell the difference between chips now i think a big reason that qualcomm had to stuff the 8gen3 with ai features is that they didn't really know at this point it's like yeah 8gen 8gen1 versus 8gen2 was the same chip a 5 headroom difference in performance is not a meaningful difference to most people even if it was 25 most people would

not notice but the ai stuff is meaningful most people are on instagram yeah like you don't have to have a fast ap to use instagram yeah yeah uh one other interesting thing about this and i think it was in the actual video that nothing posted but it seems like the 2a is going to be in the u.s developer program which is what they did with the nothing phone one versus the nothing phone two having an actual u.s release so it's kind of weird that they're going back on that but i guess trying it out not in the u.s at first or what wasn't the developer program you got it way cheaper but like it basically was like yeah it might not sure how it's gonna really work over there yeah but that was like a that was a while after they had launched the phone one it was way after so

yeah oh yeah i guess it's a good point does that mean this happens later for the u.s i don't know just probably immediately but yeah i think their long-term play is probably to get into the pay-as-you-go market because currently oneplus like is slaying the pay-as-you-go market oneplus and uh motorola are like extremely popular phones in that market they make a lot of money through that so yeah the oneplus nord phones have weirdly high market share in the United States, specifically in the pay-as-you-go market. Yeah. So the nothing phone Nord, that's it. Carl is speeding as fast as possible.

Here's one last little update. There is a phone that has this chip in it already. The Vivo T2 Pro. Glad I heard that. That phone is not in the US, but it's a roughly 300 phone okay so and now you can't say we didn't talk about it there's a context how recently did it come out uh pretty recently it's a vivo phone so they're just turning out phones oh that's true yeah yeah yeah yeah

that's true vivo and real me we get packages from them every other day literally from a phone that's an exaggeration it's not literally every couple days real me and read me we just get packages every other day of another version of a phone i've never or just the same one this is or the same one or it's the same one but it'll have like coke icons that That's true. Okay, but that went hard though. That was sick. No, and the sounds on that one. Yeah. Coke sounds.

Yeah, this one came out in September. It had 128 gigs of storage or 256, Android 13, 120 hertz refresh rate, 8 gigs of RAM. Wow. It runs FunTouch OS. Nice. So there you go. That's an unfortunate name. That's an unfortunate name.

Yeah. All right. Well, this is a pretty short section, but we obviously have a lot to talk about with the Quest and Vision Pro stuff. nice so there you go that's an unfortunate name that's an unfortunate name yeah all right well this is a pretty short section but we obviously have a lot to talk about with uh the quests and vision pro stuff so before we do that let's do some trivia i get kicked out of the lights every time trivia so we have two questions you guys could pick which one you want. Do you want a VR question or do you want a MediaTek question? VR. I'm going to go VR. I could do MediaTek though.

Andrew, you're the deciding vote. Not MediaTek. Is that what we said? MediaTek. Okay. MediaTek. Question number two. Before MetaQuest, there was the Oculus Rift.

The first Oculus Rift prototype was made by Palmer Luckey in his parents' garage in Long Beach, California. How old was he when he did this? Okay. That's the question. I remember trying it at CES. Did you try it at CES also?

No. CES. That's a long time ago. I have no idea how old this guy is though, so I'm going to have to guess. Anyway, answers later. We'll be right back. First, the bad news. SAP Business AI won't help you generate Cubase versions of your family's holiday photos, but it will help you understand which supplier is best to help you roll out your plant-based packaging in Southeast Asia,

identify the training your junior project manager needs to rise up the ranks, and automate repetitive tasks while you focus on big innovations so you can be ready for the next opportunity. Revolutionary technology, real-world results. That's SAP Business AI. Did you hear what Zuck did? Did he? He reviewed his own products. Which I think is hilarious.

He reviewed someone else's products compared to his own products. Shocker, he found his own product to be dramatically better than the competitor's product. I'm shocked. But he chimed in on Vision Pro. He had some words to say about Vision Pro, which is really interesting because he runs

meta and it's almost like they're in their own world of like, this is the metaverse and this is the products we build. But even he has something to say about Vision Pro. And I think that's because everyone has something to say about Vision Pro. And it's kind of like a little bit, it's like threatening. It's like on the radar here. Let me something to say about Vision Pro, and it's kind of like a little bit threatening. It's like on the radar. Here, let me just say something about Vision Pro. So let's just play what he says.

I actually agree with a lot of what he says. Let's just play some of what he says about Quest 3. All right, guys. So I finally tried Apple's Vision Pro. Sounds like a vlogger. I have to say that before this, I expected that Quest would be the better value for most people since it's really good and it's like seven times less expensive.

But after using it, I don't just think that Quest is the better value. I think that Quest is the better product, period. Shocker. And, you know, the different companies made different design decisions for the headsets. They have different strengths. But overall, Quest is better for the vast majority they have different strengths but overall quest is better for the vast majority of things that people use mixed reality for mixed now my friend kenny is

actually capturing this video on quests high resolution mixed reality pass through right now it's just a guy guys for audio listeners it is just a guy sitting there hey hey kenny kenny sorry kenny if kenny's a real person because he's not moving in the video at all it looks more or less memeable than people doing video with vision pro which was just like the eyes shining through like uh i think less memeable because the eyes are a really big part of the meme kenny's keeping his head perfectly still to be a tripod for this video and the cutaway to kenny is just the headset on it's great very funny also he it's like surprised it's being shot with the quest pro it's like we can tell

the video quality is not good yeah yeah so i figured i think he goes on next to start listing things do you just want to pause after each thing he lists and we'll say whether we agree or disagree i like that format yeah yeah i think in general I agree with most of them but let's break it down one by one. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Before we keep going I just want to add the Vision Pro eyes, it's not exactly the least cringe thing in the whole world

but with the like weird triple triclops slit it's like the guy has like a face hugger on his face. You look like a gamer. He looks like he's being controlled by the headset and not the other way around. Yeah. All right. ...this video on Quest's high-resolution mixed reality pass-through right now.

We're just here in my living room, and you can see his browser windows and whatever else he's got running up here. So yeah, Quest 3 does high-quality pass-through with big screens, just like Vision Pro. But we also designed it to be great for a lot of other things. Moving around, playing games, hanging out with friends and socializing, working out, and more. Quest? I would generally agree that because Quest is lighter and more comfortable and doesn't have a cable running to your back pocket, it's easier to walk around, especially being more active in it. It's kind of like wearing light plastic headphones versus wearing AirPods Max. I saw somebody running in the city recently wearing AirPods Max.

I was like, damn. That's going to get a concussion. That's hard. Yeah, I wouldn't want to get my ear sweat on those cushions. Yeah. So same thing with Vision Pro. That light seal cushion, you can't really buy cushions. Yeah. So same thing with Vision Pro. That light seal cushion, you can't really buy another one.

Yeah. So I wouldn't want to wear a big heavy Vision Pro being active nearly as much as I'd want to wear a Quest being active. So I'd give him credit there. A lot of people also like working out in Quest. Like Supernatural is a very popular

exercise app in Quest that people use all the time. I mean, just Beat Saber is incredibly, like I'm sweaty every time i play that yeah there's there's like two apps similar to beat saber right now in my vision pro they're not exactly beat saber but one of them is basically like beat saber with your hands it's not i think what david was talking about is very similar also like a lot of the exercising things are like things coming at you and you yeah you've got to like dodge things and jump and like duck it's basically a high intensity interval training app but it's like gamified yeah yeah i think he talks a little bit more too about something you say shortly okay you know i think

it's just a lot more comfortable um you know we designed it to totally agree grams less which makes a really big difference on your face um there's no wires that get in the way when you move around. Flex. Agreed. Our field of view is wider and I found our screen to be brighter also. Okay. Okay, nicely specific.

I love that this is a straight-to-camera one-take by Zuck and he nails all of these specific points. Yeah. Yes, the screen in the Quest is brighter and has a wider field of view. But is it better overall is a different question. Well brings that up later though yeah yeah um i would say yes you're right zuck it is specifically brighter and has a wider field of view i would say i've heard the thing

about wider field of view putting both of them on i can't really tell that much of a difference both of them i can see borders around my eyes and you don't get that like peripheral vision and you figure that out very quickly when something comes into the corner of your your eyes or like was it you wearing are you wearing it and we're sitting next to each other and oh yeah that's that's another thing when you try and like drink a water bottle it's really big and yeah yeah it distorts real hard so yeah yeah sure like cool it's a little better i don't think it's a noticeable difference that's that big of a deal yeah i think unless you do them back to back you probably won't specifically think wow the quest is way wider field of view yeah uh but in general that's

something that i mean this is the quest three it's third generation it's something the headsets have been working on for a while is getting progressively wider and wider and more immersive field of view. So to see a $3,500 headset have a narrower field of view was like a big point of contention for Quest enthusiasts. So that is a fact. Also, weight is a big thing. Because he mentioned he made it 150 grams lighter.

Yeah. That's a big. We all agree that the Quest 3 is far more comfortable to use, right? Yeah. Because Meta is willing to make things out of plastic and apple is not yeah and has a battery yeah yeah i i feel like the vision pro is more comfy personally really just because the the quest pro and three get so okay the pro is a different situation okay just three just the pro is so hot but it gets so hot it like like literally i pull the three off after like a-hour session, and my face is dripping.

Have you used the Vision Pro for two hours, though? I have not used the Vision Pro for two hours, but I find it really hard to believe it gets that hot. It makes your eyes kind of hot. Interestingly, so I mean, I've worn the Vision Pro on the pod. I didn't have anything intensive running. But for a long time, you can start to feel the warm air passing out the top over your forehead and the fans turn on and you never hear the fans and you never really feel like hot air hitting your eyes or anything like that but you do kind of notice like oh the top of this

thing is kind of warm that's as far as i've gotten as i don't i haven't actually worn quest three for two straight hours doing anything crazy but that's interesting that it gets a lot hotter i've only made it like three hours and at that point it's like the combination of the eye strain from looking at it and the heat on my face. I'm just like, I'm done with this thing. Interesting. Personally. But you're right.

I haven't tried Vision Pro for that, for an extended work. As soon as everyone's done passing it around, I'm going to try the full work day on it. And get pink eye. One thing you mentioned before and he mentioned, the wire hanging down, I think i think is actually like totally agree not having that wire is so nice like it makes everything more comfortable i do also find it funny ellis brought off quest pro i think it's hilarious that he doesn't compare to quest pro once in this entire video just completely disregards which feels so much more like the comparison um and then oh the third thing we're talking about comfortableness i just want to throw this out i saw this awesome thing the other day

where you can 3d print a connector so you can use the apple solo band on the quest 3 and people say it's so much more comfortable because the quest 3 is so much lighter that you actually do get the really nice like boa version and the steel solo loop on the oh that's kind of awesome i want to try just with a 3d printing thing it seems really sick that is probably the all-time best quest accessory yeah wow that's kind of sick okay good to know cool um i also noticed that you know apple's headset has this motion blur as you move around which i agree um quest is just a lot crisper now apple screen does have a higher the motion blur is annoying i agree i'm trying to remember i guess i don't think i used

it as much i i will have to say the quest has this thing and i know there's a name for it but i don't know where it is where if you're it feels like on the bottom half of your screen if you have something in your foreground and background and you move your head side to side it feels like the top and the bottom start swaying and like almost disconnecting it's something i've noticed with some shutter that must be what it is yeah it's weird and even though like the quest pro has a motion blur or sorry yeah vision pro has motion i feel more comfortable walking in the vision Pro than I do in the Quest Pro. There's something about the Quest Pro

that feels just a little disorienting. And I think the Quest Pro wins. Or sorry, this is going to be a very confusing question. And Quest 3, not Quest Pro. Quest 3, yes. Oh my gosh. Quest 3 Vision Pro. I like walking in the Vision Pro.

Pass-through is definitely better in the Vision Pro. I i agree and he mentions the motion blur while moving around probably more laterally and you do notice this especially because i think if in vision pro you stare at one thing and then move your head you'll notice it gets blurry while you're moving your head and then you stop moving and it sharpens up and i don't think that that's a normal behavior most of the time in vision pro you're focusing on the thing in front of you while you move around, and I don't think I've noticed any difficult motion blur in that. He also used the word crisper. Interesting choice of words.

Yeah, because he's doing gene editing. Ah, good one, good one. That was good. No, he thinks it's crisper while moving your head, but the pixel density of the vision pro is dramatically higher so crisper while moving versus crisper in general is a bit fuzzy bit fuzzy nice yeah nice resolution and that's that's really nice but i was surprised by how many trade-offs they had to make to the quality of the device and the comfort and ergonomics and other aspects of the display and artifacts in order to get to that. Now, for input,

Quest supports precision controllers that are great for games. Both headsets support hand tracking, but I found ours to be a little more accurate. Pause. Pause Here's, oh, sorry. No. You go. Okay. Okay. The controllers on Quest are great. Yes. And they are better for gaming than anything you can do on the Vision Pro. And Vision Pro should have a controller option. It would be nice if you could have a, I mean, you can use it like a game controller, but it would be nice if you could use like a pointer controller, whatever, for games.

use like a pointer controller, whatever, for games. That being said, the hand selection of things in Quest is not even close to as good for regular moving around the UI as the Vision Pro. It's just not, it's definitely not as good. That being said, with Quest, you're usually just holding the controllers. And so that precision is really, really great. And if you just get used to controllers,

you never have to worry about the wonkiness of like trying to grab a window and move stuff. But I think the intuitiveness of Apple's eye tracking combined with how good and how wide of an area it can pick up just the pinching is fantastic. So I would say it's just apples and oranges, like controllers on one really good. There are no controllers on the other, but the eye control and hand control is really good on that. And you're going to get way better gaming out of controllers and way better ui and intuitiveness out of the other i think that's what like sort of split it down to yeah i agree as someone who has like a quest workflow where i like i leave it charging on my desk and never use the controllers like

the controllers are in a drawer just pull it on the first 35 seconds to a minute is just me looking at my hands going, see them, see them. But again, that's Quest Pro, right? No, it's three. It's both quests. I didn't really feel like, the hand tracking got better once it finds your hands on three,

but even still you're like, no, I'm aiming here. No, a little lower. Yeah, the aiming pointer thing is not good. You didn't see the click. Oh, one more. X-ing out of windows is like, I highlight the X and then I do this and it twitches and it misses the X and I try to hit it over and over and it's crazy. And maybe it boots the hand tracking program a little bit after turning on because it assumes you're going to use the controllers.

But every time I'm like, see him yet? And it's like, nah, bro, you're armless. So I kind of think he's being strategic in what he's saying there and his hand tracking is like he he is about to mention eye tracking and i feel like comparing the eye tracking with the pinch isn't hand tracking for the vision pro it's just like you're just using the pinch at that point. And the eye tracking is far better than any. Because the quest like pinch and like point is horrible. It's hard. It's so bad.

And I don't think that's what he's. I don't know. It's very confusing how he's saying this. I think he's just trying to say something about like hand tracking and being like how good it sees your hands and shows them in a space. Because that pinching thing is terrible. And eye tracking is different because it's tracking your eyes and all it's using your hands for is the pinching. Yeah,

that's true. He could, he could argue that it's more advanced. I think it's a strategic word that he's using. But the, the quest has to know more gestures, right? Because you have the menu open pinch and the select pin the wrist and the wrist

turn and yeah so it's not like they're not make trying to make a serious hand tracking thing i would use the controllers a hundred percent of the time with the quest yeah with the quest totally yeah yeah shall we continue let's keep going apple's eye tracking is really nice um we actually had those sensors back in quest pro we took them out for Quest 3 we're going to bring them back in the future that was interesting that was like a what do they call it when you compliment someone but underhanded

I thought Apple's compliment sandwich right or like yeah it's like it's good we actually had that years ago and we're going to bring it back once we think it is actually a good feature. Wait, those sensors are in the Quest Pro, though? Yeah.

They have eye trackers in the Quest Pro. Wow, I didn't even know that. That's part of the reason it was so expensive, actually. But you, again, have controllers that you use most of the time and end up not using. Like, the fundamental thing about Vision Pro is it doesn't come with controllers. So you have to rely on the eye tracking being good all the time for everything you do in everything yeah which is different from quest yeah but they're bringing it back they're bringing it back in the future i wonder why

just like how they brought uh color pass through mixed reality to the quest 3 right before the vision pro came out fascinating yeah i feel like the the eye tracking and pinching is like the far more intuitive non-controller way of doing it um it is extremely frustrating when it like doesn't work because you just feel like you're using tele trying to use like telekinesis by sitting there

and you're like I can't get this to go up a little higher yeah you start lifting your head and there have been times where I've just stood up to walk to the window that i have like in front of me okay and like just press it with my finger which is a good thing that works super frustrating though to do i think also and not to drag on too long this kind of goes a little bit more to like we keep doing the philosophical thing where like what do we want the future to be and i think in like a 20 year however long future you put on the glasses or whatever and just start think in like a 20 year, however long future,

you put on the glasses or whatever and just start using things without a controller. You don't want to have to think about a controller. And for meta, if you get people so used to that precision controller, I think you now have to eventually find a hurdle where you get rid of controllers. And there has to be this leaping off point where they're like,

I know you guys have been using these controllers and they've been really, really good for all these games and all the experiences, but every app and everything that we do is going to have to leap off of controllers to graduate to this super lightweight, invisible mixed reality thing we want. You don't think they're always going to have

optional controllers for games? Because I feel like it's better for games. It's possible. Agreed. Yeah, maybe you always have optional controllers, but it's kind of like, what did you train your users to do for the past decade? Yeah.

I could see them moving fully to hand tracking and eye tracking, but I feel like they're always going to lean into that, especially because they are a lot more about the VR experiences. Like people buy quests to play games. People don't buy Vision pros to play games right because you're not buying a vision pro for fruit ninja you know so they have very different use cases even though they use fairly similar technology yeah agreed um it's a nice interface it's not perfect for everything though for typing or complex tasks correct um you're gonna want valid things like hands or a keyboard or controllers or eventually a neural

interface i like how he just casually dropped you're probably gonna want like a i don't know a keyboard or like a neural interface anyway yeah what he's pretty much like oh this new like kind of revolution maybe not revolutionary but the thing that quest or vision pro is really good at is the eye tracking he's like this new thing it's like pretty good but you know the old school things are good like neural engine neural interface neural interface the headset plugs into your brain no not exactly directly but some sort of it's funny because i agree with him that for simple tasks the the eye tracking and everything it's great but the second you get to a complex task yeah let's let's consider typing maybe a more complex task. Then it's a little more like, okay, do I look at the letters or do I like type the thing in midair?

It's a little cumbersome and clumsy. And for that, I would just want to think of the word and it shows up on the screen. Like things like that, you get a little more future looking and I'm sure they're working on stuff like that. But yeah, just casually drop that in there. So wait, so he is talking about plugging into your brain not i don't know if that's exactly what that means yeah or if they're because in in the vision pro you have siri and you just say the word so you looked at the you looked at the text field and just say a word and it shows up okay and that's you know that's not a neural interface but it feels like one and what's two steps further down that line for meta?

Is it just like wearing a certain like headband? Electrodetector thing on your forehead? I don't know. I don't want meta knowing all my thoughts. I can't even type with my eyes. Imagine trying to focus so hard to only think of the word you're trying to say and not think of anything else.

Do not think of an elephant you're trying to say and not think of anything else also do not think of an also this is this is meta like i don't want my inner thoughts scraped for advertiser data oh they will they will at least you were thinking about hot dogs a lot a lot like all day so we showed you a few ads and you bought them yeah yeah interesting i i agree with what he's saying i just don't know how to get to that future yeah it's weird i do agree that using the environments and having it make your keyboard go away is really stupid yeah i mentioned that yeah in the video yeah especially if you're like using your mac display and you're mirroring it and then but then you tune yourself into an environment and you just have to touch type like is that insane your mac monitor is

floating in the air and that's one thing i really like about the meta remote desktop application is you can place a cutout on your desk yeah for all of your controllers so like i have all my macro buttons my keyboard my trackpad and so i can like physically look i'm a big macro button guys but it's really awesome that's why i have a quest workflow you know what i mean because it actually as much as it sucks it is hot and hurts your eyes and and it reads your thoughts or whatever it does actually work yeah like at the end of the day it does work yeah yeah i kind of i just also want to point out that at the end of every time ellis does this he takes off the headset and he's like i gotta go for a walk i've been on mars for 24 minutes it's so real yeah i did mention in the video but like

if apple can do this and this and recognize your hands and pass through then surely i should be able to do this and sorry audio, audio listeners, I'm like holding up my hands and that's how you detect your hands and they work and pass through. Surely I can hold up a keyboard or just recognize as a keyboard. Yeah, if it can recognize a MacBook Pro display and know how to automatically lift that out of

the screen, it should be able to do like semantic segmentation and know where your keyboard is. The Quest can do with supported keyboards, like the Logitech MX series keyboards, MX Mechanicals. If you tell the Quest that you're using one of those, it will scan it and then fully do a 3D render. Oh, really?

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. All right. It doesn't work. I mean, maybe it works now. When I was trying to do it, I couldn't get it to work. Oh, man.

But it's in the menu. Yeah. I think it should be even more advanced with like, you looked at my hands and you know what hands generally look like, so then you're able to figure out my hands. I think you should know what keyboards generally look like because the layout's the same mostly every time, and then you have function keys at the top.

Wait, I'm just... And you can just recognize it. You can't use the keyboard at all? It's not that you can't see it? You can use it, you just can't see it you just can't see you can't see it oh just learn how to touch type well you can but if you were doing this and then you were missing your keyboard you have to find your keyboard again yeah this is a user but there's something about having my peripheral vision see my hands typing on something yeah and that being linked to what i'm feeling by pressing on buttons that is comforting i'm not saying that i don't touch i don't touch type i know how to type i

just like something about my peripheral vision telling my brain yes you are typing while feeling the thing is beneficial i'm mostly i'm mostly joking i'm mostly joking but yes i agree to whatever challenge you're about to ask side note try and get a high monkey type on the Vision Pro. I think I got like 56. How are you? With eyeball? Yeah, poking. Poking, single fingers, 30 seconds on monkey type.

I got to like 52 or 56. Were you like inches from it? Dude, I sat in it for an hour trying to do it. That just sounds like Beat Saber at a certain point. It's like a CSGO. Way more frustrating and way less fun. That is. It was tough.

Quest's immersive content library is a lot deeper. You know, we've been working with studios, building virtual and mixed reality games and other content for a long time now. And if you want to watch YouTube or play Xbox on a big screen anywhere you go, that's only available on Quest for now. Okay.

Wait, I'm very interested. Specific wording. Very specific wording. Did you watch his video? Yeah. So he shows these immersive videos that he's watching or whatever, and they just do not feel immersive

compared to everything you watch in the vision pro i think like the term immersive is i mean he's saying there's a he's basically saying there's a lot of vr yeah he says the immersive content library is deeper because quest 3 and quest 2 and they've been around for a while and they've partnered with tons of studios and all this stuff so yes they have a much much larger collection of things to do in vr and immersive experiences of course but is it as good as the extremely small number of the ones that we've seen on vision pro no i think you guys are using immersive as hyper realistic and i don't i don't know if I fully agree

as that being the definition for immersive. I think that just refers to a type of media, which is this is fully in the XYZ space around you. Whether it's full VR or mixed reality, it's just they have all these experiences. And if you watch the video, there's one that's mixed reality, like something coming out of the wall.

And there's also obviously VR experiences. And Quest Pro has tons of this stuff. So yes, the library, which is what he's saying, is way bigger. So the amount of stuff you can do is way bigger. This feels like Android and iOS all over again. Like the Vision Pro is like you can't do nearly as much. But you could argue that the fidelity and the tracking and how well things stay spatially locked are, and the media especially, the videos that, like four videos that exist that were shot for Vision Pro look better by a mile than anything I've seen through a Quest headset. So I'm like, do you want more or better? the immersive video on the quest kind of just feels like 2d video that is around you whereas

the vision pro videos feel more three like volume feel more volumetric he said immersive experiences right not immersive videos yeah yeah but he shows a video on screen when he says that okay yeah i guess my argument was immersive experiences is very obviously true just be a vr game yeah and i would argue that it's more immersive and yeah vr game and then there's uh watching a fight from the corner of the octagon so it's like this content this doesn't exist for like a 2d video stream though it's all that looks like it looks bad but it exists yeah and i wish you could do this in vision pro but you can't they marketed you could do that in vision pro yeah they marketed it as of right now he's specifically using that language of our content library is deeper

correct i agree with the exact words that zuck used in this video i'll put it that way i would argue the experiences in quest 3 are more immersive more immersive it depends on what experiences i mean like in the sense of i'm in a position where like i've thought i could lean on things that weren't there and like it just feels like you're in something where you're not actually there like even like graphics aren't the only thing i've played super hot which is like the most like bored not boring but like simple polygons and i've fallen over because i've tried to touch things in the actual yeah this is like i would argue that's extremely immersive i think i know where you're going which is and i i didn't really talk about as much as i

want to in the last video but the only really fully immersive things in vision pro are the environments which are like the five or whatever that you can do and the play area of that world is very small yeah so you can't really move around because you didn't like draw your play area on the ground or whatever it sort of puts around you and you can take like two steps in each direction before it breaks and you're out of it and in super hot if you have a huge play area you can like walk across the room and get and crouch down behind a thing and it will look like you walked across the room and crouched down behind a box and none of that exists on vision pro so in that way the quest experience is more immersive

because you have more play area but if i just stand in place and look at a character there's no question the vision Pro looks more realistic. Just in the like four environment, like standing on the moon or Mount Hood, for example, and just looking out and hearing everything and seeing everything and how well my head tracks and how detailed the textures are, that part advantage Vision Pro.

So there are different things that make certain experiences more or less immersive and the play area is a big one. I think there are other things we just haven't experienced in Quest Pro that are like, because I remember on our Vive, there was like being on top of a mountain, and it's just like super high quality. You're standing on top of a mountain and can move to different areas very similar to Vision Pro environments. Yes. So I think we just haven't experienced enough of it because i'm sure quest has plenty of 3d environments you can sit in like yes they don't look as good yeah but i i kind of agree with you andrew like yeah just on the fact that like super hot is immersive and not because it looks good but

because it's responsive and fast yeah like it it just it makes sense to your brain you know what i mean uh yeah it's immersive I get what you're saying. Yeah. I think a big part of that, too, is just that the Vision Pro's resolution is so much higher. For sure. Yeah, yeah. But it's not brighter. Which I wouldn't even really notice

because it feels bright enough to me. You know, when I look around, it seems like there are a lot of people who just assumed that Vision Pro would be higher quality because it's Apple and it costs $3,000 more. But honestly, I'm pretty surprised that Quest is so much better for the vast majority of things that people use these headsets for with that price differential. Now, look, I know that some fanboys get upset whenever anyone dares to question if Apple's going to be better than Apple. Throwing hands.

But the reality is that every generation of computing has an open and a closed model. And yeah, in mobile, Apple's closed model won. But it's not always that way. It didn't win. If you go back to the PC era, Microsoft's open model was the winner. And in this next generation, meta is going to be the open model. And I really want to make sure that the open model wins out again. The future is not yet written.

So I think you're going to send it. Yeah. Just now he's looking out for us, man. He's he's he wakes up. He brushes the macadamia dust off of his hoodie. He he walks out in his yard. He's just a normal guy, man. One thing in there that I was when i was listening to

this that i was thinking of he's like a lot of the fanboys will be upset about this and i was like what about the facebook fan boy oh is he like the only company that doesn't have a bunch of fanboys definitely some meta quest fanboys for sure and i don't want to say fanboys just people that defend the company to the they're just not as notorious as the other fanboys yeah talking about yeah there's not as numerous because it's a much more niche product sure yeah i like the quest a lot yeah like it's a really good product yeah for sure i don't know i wonder if the fans there are more like i want to use this to directly compare to apple because i dislike apple or that they're like hardcore quest fans here's a way of looking at it if you've been using a quest

for like a year and the vision pro comes out and you look at that app store and what it does there is no reason to switch to the vision pro and if you're zuck that's what just happened and you're like i'm shocked that there's no reason for anyone who's had a quest right to even consider that three thousand dollar thing apple came out with no No great games, way less content library, no partnerships like we have. We've been doing this. We got controllers. We got all this stuff.

And why would I get a Vision Pro? The Quest 3 does all this stuff. So from that perspective, it makes perfect sense. Because the Vision Pro went quasi-mainstream, whereas the Quest is never really. Yeah, there's people who've been playing Beat Saber, games, whatever. None of this stuff is in the Vision Pro.

This is also not at all dissimilar to when a Nexus phone would have something for four years, and then Apple would put it in iOS, and all of the Android people would say, we've had this for five years. You guys are getting haptic keyboards in 2023? A lot of the times, Apple would make it more polished, or they would do it in a way that people who are not willing to put up with the evolution of technology would be okay with yeah um but they did have it for a long time before yeah so it's kind of the same same deal and i also would i would disagree with his statement that apple won

the open versus closed interface war because like yes they're debatable generally more popular in the united states but globally android phones are like vastly more popular i would also argue that in the long run apple sort of did win the pc war like obviously if you're a hospital you're gonna fill your business with a lot of people have pcs he definitely oversimplified a little yeah i don't know yeah it's competitive but i think in general he's trying to paint a very broad picture of how he wants us to go yeah can you replay the start of that one more time there's something very specific he said prize that quest

is so much better for the vast majority of things that people use these headsets for with that price differential that now look i know i think it's really funny that he says like it's so much better for what people use these headsets for because we've been making the headsets for years and the vision pro has been out for like a month also because they bought all the studios that make the content yeah what people use these headsets for is what quest users have already been doing and so yes of course this is what we offer them yes well in in in mark's defense it's like one of the reasons i have not been jumping at the bit to use vision pro in the same way that i use quest is literally because of a small little feature because i can't have multiple remote

desktop windows like that that that's like that's a product killer for my specific use case so he is right he's like for the people yeah for there's something to switch it's it's a bummer that you basically if you want to have multiple windows open you have to use safari in the vision pro you have to yeah that's what's that that is like a very very opaque version of apple's like walled garden play is we're not going to let you just use whatever browser you want if you want to have the best experience you got to use safari and we're going to associate multiple safari windows with the best experience yeah no but you can have multiple apps open at one yes you can yeah just not multiple windows of the same app you have multiple safari windows open i've not like can i have multiple instances of the notes

app yes okay thank you but you cannot have the only thing you can't have more than one of is virtual displays for your mac yeah unfortunately yeah fix it please and at least currently uh no other browser companies make uh vision also i don't know i don't think you can actually have more than one notes app i think safari is the one that you can have more than one instance so we don't need to get into yeah can you not it'd be it's it's crazy that they didn't just put you know like an an apple silicon m series chip inside the Vision Pro so that it could do these things. Oh, wait. Oh, wait.

Interesting. Yeah. These are intentional decisions. Anyway. Smaller thermal headroom. Anyway. Yeah. That's basically it.

Our reaction to our CEO reviewing his own product is always fun. Yeah. Yeah. Carl's been doing this for a while now, too. I'm sure he's been telling everyone. Yeah. He reviewed the iPhone in a totally unbiased way. Totally. Yeah. Carl's been doing this for a while now too. I'm sure he's been telling everyone. Yeah. He reviewed the iPhone in a totally unbiased way.

Totally. Yeah. And Mark didn't even go through the trouble of dressing up as Marquez. I'm going to need Tim Cook to record a video response to this video.

He's too busy chilling at the Super Bowl with Ludacris showing the Vision Pro. He was told he had to do that. Yeah. See, Tim Cook, he's a a celebrity we can't relate to mark it's just him and his cows also that's a real guy tim cook when faced with difficult questions doesn't try to defend the product he just says buy your mom an iphone

oh you make the experience so bad for me when i want to text my mom the pictures don't come out good fire and i you know you sound like a bad son exactly he just yeah but he flips it on you he flips it on you i think apple's natural response would be vision pro just came out give it a second we have the best developer community in the world generations we just went from 600 to a thousand apps in the app store for Vision Pro. Like we're generation one here. I think that's what their natural inclination would be. And that's also

a totally fair response. So I think ultimately Meta is so happy that Vision Pro exists for so many reasons because they're going to sell so many Quest Pros for people who are interested in a similar experience but don't want to pay $3,500. Yeah. They're excited that people are going to start investing in the mixed reality space which tangentially means they're going to be investing in quest content they can buy the studio

yeah yeah i think i think for them it's like a win-win yeah i think yeah they definitely want mixed ar vr any type of headset to be more popular and that's what Apple does well they do make things popular like ear sticks that come out of your ears and I don't know you guys remember the first generation of AirPods yeah I lived in San Francisco when that happened and all of a sudden everyone was walking around with these like these like antennas coming out of their ears and I was like this looks so dumb same oh my god and I was laughing at people for months and now it's just completely normal yeah I do get asked a lot what do I think is the future of media like we've been doing this whole 2d youtube video thing for a while and the natural

inclination is yeah the future would be an immersive video the future would be I hold the video and I hold the phone in my hand and you can see it like it's in your hand and you can look around and that feels like that's the future we're barreling towards i just don't know how far along that line we are yet i also don't know if it's actually gonna work out that way mkb 3d well so also hd still so i used to used to run a VR website back in the day. Not run, but I wrote like 90% of the articles for it called VR Source. And I started going to Oculus Connect at the first Oculus Connect forward. And at that time, they were like partnering with all these studios to make these like 3D short films.

like partnering with all these studios to make these like 3D short films. So it was the way a normal movie works is they direct your attention to drive the story. But in that circumstance, they kind of need to have multiple storylines going on at the same time. So you can pay attention to one thing, watch it again, kind of look over here and pay attention to another thing, notice more things. And it's a very, very cool idea, not dissimilar to your like 3d immersive content thing but it felt like it took way more work and it's way harder to be like precise about what kind of story you want to tell totally and only a few short films were ever made for that the the darren aronofsky sphere movie had sort of the same issue where like the canvas was so broad you'd like look over here and then you'd be like wait am I missing what's it no wait am I missing the movie like you just have to watch it like six times and no one actually wants to do that and that's financially just not possible it's so hard to do too yeah

well that's about all we have to talk about for now, but we, of course, should end the episode. You know how we end the episode? No. I don't. With trivia. Next time I'm turning that way. I feel like people are going to get so mad at this. So, quick update on the score. Marquez.

Oh, yeah. In the lead with a single point just one point dang all the way up in front andrew with one two minus one zero david damn with zero as well two minus one would have been one though true first question mark Mark Zuckerberg famously names all of his cows after famous kickboxers. Just kidding. Are you? Are you kidding? I wish that were true. Marques, Andrew, you guys both use speakers in the Yamaha HS series.

Terrific series of speakers. And those are what we call two-way speakers. They have two individual speaker drivers on them the one on the top that makes all the high sounds is called the tweeter the one in the middle that makes the lower sounds is called the what oh you wrote this already i did i'm pretty confident about this one i'm gonna write this but no hints wait oh my pen oh wait just wrong my pen is not writing anything you can use my alternate if you want oh yeah give me wow mine wasn't good enough

all right you're out of time what do we have oh wait all right put that all right day david what did you put a sub i'm sorry what did you put woofer that is correct andrew what did you put subwoofer i'm unfortunately not i never thought i was getting that right anyways yes why did i just write sub uh because sub is short for subwoofer which is the lower version of a woofer but the yamaha hs speakers do not have a subwoofer that makes sense you can get yeah you could also there's someone that's going to be like actually that's not a woofer because the crossover on the hs series is at like 1800 hertz too high but it's a woofer it's a woofer it's a it yeah it's not a tweeter i find it very funny that the person that invented these

things was like birds go tweet and dogs go and therefore i will make the things called this i'm pretty sure they're back check that it's true i It's true. No, no, no. I love that. That is the idea. I know. You ever hear birds? British? You ever hear a dog? Woof, woof.

Exactly. So what's a subwoof? Woof, woof. Yeah. You know exactly what it is. Underwolf. Perfect. Okay, next question.

How old was Palmer lucky when he made the first prototype of the Oculus Rift? I don't know, but it sounds like he got lucky. Closest wins? Sure. Wait, really? Without going over. Price is right. No, no price is right.

No way. Yes, price is right. You guys messed up the MediaTek question. It was multiple choice. You're going to make me change my name. I feel like without going over, that makes us not actually try and guess what is it. Let's just do delta. Oh, what? That's crazy.

Wow. I'm going to guess a different score and I'm going to get it wrong. Therefore, I'm not changing my answer. I'm sticking with trying to actually be closest. Yeah. Flip and read. What do you got? David? I wrote 19. andrew 28 wrong marquez i wrote 24 months and six days i hope that's over that would be so funny is it 17 it's 18. I was like, if it was at CES,

you have to be old enough to go to CES, I guess. I think David should get a point. As funny as it is that he didn't get one. That's really funny. Oh, it's going to be disgusting. No. Oh, no. I tried.

I'm upset. I was going to change it to 18, and then I was like, no, I'm sticking to my guns. It's going to be Delta. It's gonna be Delta. We will reconsider our Price is Right rules from here on out. From here on out. Starting now.

Starting now. Do you want the MediaTek question as well? Yes. Just to see if we can head it out. Give it to me. This is a short episode. It actually is a shorter episode. Multiple times. It actually is a shorter episode. Media Tech's marketing department makes me laugh

with almost everything they say. They have a way of inventing these words that aren't stupid, like a lot of tech marketings, but they are very funny. Don't ask me what dimensity means, please. So, no, dimensity is not on here. That is such

a silly word watch it actually be a real is it real dimensity dimension intensity i i just assumed it was i assumed it was it doesn't matter i assumed it was dimension and density because they're talking it's like a anyway anyway i don't think it's a real word all right but which of the following media tech branding marketing terms is also not real? Again, I'm going to give you three real ones, one fake one. Are you ready, guys? Okay. A, imagic, which I think is a portmanteau of either imaging or imagine, and then the word magic, but it also ends in a Q for some reason.

Not even going to try to explain that one. I-M-A-G-I-Q, imagic. it also ends in a q for some reason not even going to try to explain the one i m a g i q in magic the next one is mira vision m-i-r-a vision this combines the spanish word for look mira with the english word for vision vision thank you also wait mira. There's your cut. This is going to be a piecemeal episode. It's because typically when people use that word in Spanish, it means they're mad at you. Look at me. Yeah, they're saying like, mira, mira, look, look, you're not getting it.

Oh. Yeah. Man, people used to be mad at me a lot. Yeah. See, look-see, a combination of the words look. No way. C, look C, a combination of the words look and C, look C in case you're curious. It's like a LIDAR protocol for autofocus instead of infrared. How do you spell it?

Literally, it's look, but then C is with a Y, S-C-Y, look C. Look C. Look C. And then D is mick linker mick linker is it's a linker and if you don't know what a linker is it's something that allows you to take object files in the system code and then generate executables outside of a compiler it's the mcdonald's linker mick linker mick linker is spelled exactly like a mcdonald's linker would be spelled can you just say all four of them out loud again? Yes, Imagic with a Q.

Miravision, one word. C, Looksy, L-O-O-K-S-E-Y, and D, McLinker. I don't know, dude. This is one of those ones where you need that one to be wrong and it's right and I just alright David I wrote B you wrote B as in mirror vision is fake

yeah no mirror vision is real we all said that you all said that is it a magic no it's look see Adam made that one up it's really good I mean they're all I think sey felt like it kind of gave it away but but mick linker the magic with a q is just too like i've seen i've seen that too many times

well anyway that was quite that was quite in a journey we all just took together quite the mick linker we had quite the mick McLinker from YouTube thumbnail A, B testing. You remember that? Remember we talked about that? That was this episode? That was like today. Oh my God. All the way through Taylor Swift and TikTok,

through the Nothing Phone 2A. Remember the Vivo T2 Pro? Remember that? No. Remember that? All the way to Zuck versus Vision Pro. This episode is literally going to take a year off my life this was a winding journey

if you guys appreciate the the odyssey that Adam and Ellis are about to go through to give this to you guys by Friday I just want you to give this a thumbs up or at least give us a rating somewhere wherever you listen or watch this nonetheless we'll be back at it next week

so thanks for watching thanks for listening and see you then waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roburn nonetheless we'll be back at it next week so thanks for watching thanks for listening and see you then peace bye waveform is produced by adam melina and ellis roberton we're partnered with vox media podcast network and our intro outro music is created by vane silver what if airdrop worked perfectly as long as you held your breath