Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Playstation 5 vs Xbox Series X, Amazon Opens Your Razr Box, & Embargoes That Go Too Far

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

The first thing we cover on today's episode is the fact that YOU NEED TO VOTE. Then, we move on to slightly less important things like AMD's new graphics cards and how they compete against NVIDIA's RTX series. Next up is a quick peek at how Amazon bizarrely opens your Motorola Razr Box before sending it to you, followed by a chat about the hype and marketing behind Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X and why the embargoes are a just a tad crazy. Lastly, we play a little game called "What we liked and didn't like about a bunch of the latest smartphones." Did we also mention that YOU NEED TO VOTE? Links: vote.org https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com Music by KamrenB: https://spoti.fi/2WRJOFh AMD RX Series: https://bit.ly/34Hzbtc Amazon Opening Razr Boxes: https://bit.ly/3mAiANX Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Hello, hello. Welcome back to the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques Brownlee. And I'm Andrew Manganielli. And before we get into anything on this podcast, let me just go ahead and tell you, if you're a citizen of the U.S. and you're eligible to vote, go ahead and vote. Please.

Go ahead and do it. So Election Day is the 3rd, and it's coming up. But if for some reason you don't have a plan to go vote, you should figure that out ASAP. I'm going to give everybody the day off on the 3rd. It's Election Day. It's a holiday. Find the time. Tell your boss Marquez you can take it off. It's happening. So there's a ton of resources out there. We'll throw a few in the show notes. Vote.org is one of my favorites. There's also Iwillvote.com. Just take a few minutes and please go vote. Okay, back to tech. So there's a lot. It's still Techtober. And if you haven't been on YouTube in a while, I suggest checking it out because your sub box has probably got a bunch of stuff in it.

I'll just leave it at that. There's a lot happening. A lot of phones. There are a lot of phones out there. A lot of phones, but it's also console season. There's more Apple events coming, more laptops, tablets, a whole bunch of stuff. Today, we're going to, let's see, we're going to quickly talk about the console wars happening because Series X and PlayStation 5 are on the horizon. They're about to come out. And we'll probably rant a little bit on the embargoes that have to do with them, too. We'll play a little game with the new smartphones coming out, and we'll start with some stuff we liked.

Yeah. What did you like? I have, I think, a kind of fun one here. you like i i have i think a kind of fun one here um it's not like one specific thing but it's more of every once in a while we get a phone that you can just tell is going to produce like have a bunch of really fun videos when it comes out and so this was one the lg wing just came out and i knew the titles for it were going to be amazing so i just wrote down a couple titles for wing reviews or wing articles that I really appreciated. Oh, this is one of my favorite things.

Everyone loves a good pun. I'm sure Dieter saw the wing come out and was like losing his mind and super excited to start naming things. But so let's see. We have Winging It from Mr. Mobile. Nice. Really Flipping Fun was the Verge video. This one I think was the most creative and it's not a direct pun but it was um heim gartenberg gartenberg from the verge learning to fly failing to soar what a good

title interesting right like that's so good um and then i have one that i'm gonna one of my friends when i was talking to him about uh about. His name's Connor. And he said, I just want the wing to not be good so you guys can name the video Wing and a Miss. I actually had in my draft of that video, I had a wing and it pun in there, like something about just wing it. And it didn't make it to the video. And I'm really disappointed. And thank you, Mr. Mobile, for getting that into your title because I wanted it. I wanted to make the joke. Yeah, there's potential there, and I think some people did a really good job.

So kudos to everyone who... I think I almost titled it What the Flip. I think I almost did that. WTF LIP would have been the title. Or just something like that, but I didn't do it. I'm not as creative as I... Well, the thing is it had more potential if it was a bad phone but it wound up being pretty pretty interesting true pretty cool phone so good job lg you that could have backfired really bad if it if it went poorly but um did you have anything

you liked let me think it's been busy so if you haven't watched anything um i wouldn't be surprised i mean i kind of just like that xbox embraced the meme of the Series X looking like a fridge and then made a fridge that looks like a Series X. That was really good. That's good. That's like if you're going to be self-aware enough as a company, you might as well just go all the way. And I like that they did that. They sent one to Justine.

She did an unboxing of it. It's like six, seven feet tall. It's crazy. It's amazing. And then they're doing like a giveaway. A giveaway, exactly. It's crazy. It's amazing. And then they're doing like a giveaway, I think. A giveaway, exactly. That's pretty awesome. So I kind of just generally enjoy companies

that are self-aware enough to make fun of themselves a little bit. Like if people are going to say your console- It's good marketing. If they're going to say it looks like a fridge, yeah. Yeah, do something with that meme. Exactly, yeah. So shout out to them.

Good job, Microsoft. Especially because they need, everyone needs all the marketing they can get during console stuff right now. every little bit counts well they know it and we'll talk about yeah yeah we'll definitely get to that real quick I think I have two really quick stories before we jump into like the meteor stuff we have in this AMD graphics card we just recently talked about Nvidia's 30 series which made a big splash in the like the pc gamer pc building community

whatever universe sorry by the way everyone it's really late we're recording this about as last minute as possible so i think marquez marquez is super drained i'm sure i'm awake though that's good i'm so awake um all right so amd graphics cards they just came out there's an event to yesterday i believe which we didn't get to see because we were busy, but I just have a couple notes on it. RX 6800, RX 6800 XT, and RX 6900 XT. They're supposed to be competitors to the 3080 and the 3090. They're so not good at naming these,

but also they're just straight up numbers so i guess it's fine computers parts are one of those things where like i've always just been so used to do like name a motherboard off the top of your head right now hl130z55g no it's like i get i get the numbers thing like 3080 3090 it's very straightforward it's just like there's no way to not sound like you're diving into the deep end of tech specs just talking about the name it is you have to be like familiar with that set of numbers to really like know like i'm not familiar with amd graphics cards so like these to me so rx 6800 means nothing to most people and and saying that the rx 6900 xt is comparable to the rtx 3090 is just a lot of numbers coming out of my

really is that's just funny so in terms of price points 579 649 999 if you compare that to Nvidia prices they are cheaper than everything even though in video stuff was cheaper than normal this year AMD is always the company you come for though when you want like bang for your buck yep cheaper than nvidia cheaper than intel kind of stuff um let's see i have i looked at some super quick benchmarks on a verge article and i'll link that in the show notes but according to some of the benchmarks that they posted on certain games at 4k or at 1440 or at all sorts of different uh settings it looked like it was beating nvidia in quite a few and when it wasn't it was tied with it so eating the comparable card that they're comparing themselves to okay well let's remember this is from an amd event so who knows exactly

what numbers are it obviously will have to be tested but just the fact that it's comparable and a bit cheaper and i think the crazy or the the really important thing is well how available will these be when they come out because the 30s 30 80 30 90 and the 30 70 that just came out i just saw ken bolito sat in line overnight to get theirs for austin's channel really overnight for a graphics card at of micro center i think they had like i think ken said micro center got a little over 100 in um that is actually they sold all of them that's incredible waiting in line okay these new consoles coming out i feel like there's going to be lines outside of stores like i can see that even though it's covid times like

people are going to wait for that and i i always go back to, I've only ever waited for one phone in line. And I know all the comments are already typing like, well, you get the phones. I've bought phones and I just wait for them. But I've never wanted a phone on day one so bad that I would wait in line outside overnight for it. I surprisingly have waited in line for a lot of different things. Really? The only tech, I guess you could say, was for Halo uh okay i got in line for that and it released at midnight so it wasn't overnight but it was very late um i once waited in line at the grand opening of a buffalo wild wings to get

a year's free worth of wings the thing was is it was nowhere near me so i never went to it again i was just in college and i was bored and like some of my friends who lived down there were doing it that is um that's really and i used to wait for hockey tickets all the time for like 12 plus hours but interesting yeah yeah so that that one pretty off but gpus are getting that kind of hype yeah that's that's they are i'll mostly be interested to see how available they are because i have friends that have been trying to get the 30 series and just failing completely so maybe that will mean there's going to be more need for the amd ones which means they'll get sold out super quickly or there might just be equal want for them and not enough supply and they'll also be sold out for the next however many months um but if you guys want to see really in-depth of everything, Linus, hardware, Canucks,

Jay's Two Cents, Paul's hardware, everyone, you know where to look. Okay. That's AMD graphics cards. One more quick story that I read literally maybe an hour ago, and I thought we just needed to discuss this very quickly, but Motorola just started selling the Razr on Amazon, an unlocked version, but there is a part in the description on Amazon's website that says, Razr was meant to be shipped in the unfolded position. However, in order to better protect the display, we have folded your Razr.

It's safer. It may not look as elegant as we hoped, and we apologize if you see fingerprints on your device, but we assure you the Razr is brand new. So apparently Amazon is unboxing your phone and folding it and putting it back in the box to protect it from shipping for some reason. That's the first time I'm hearing that.

That seems incredibly inefficient. Like when I think of Amazon, I think of ruthless efficiency. I think of paying people as little as possible. I think of employing as few people as possible to do as much work as possible in these gigantic spaces. And I have no idea why they would want to unbox phones and re-box them. Especially because right now efficiency is something that's taking a hit over there because of COVID conditions. They can't put as many people in a warehouse.

So like you wonder why we're not getting our two-day shippings from amazon right now and even though they're making billions of billions of more dollars during covid oh they're they're they're not as efficient because they can't cram as many people into a warehouse at a time so why would they want to take this extra step of now unboxing somebody's thing folding it up i mean maybe it's so minuscule i'm sure there's like one warehouse that has all the razors in it that could be true that could just be one guy it's just one guy rampaging through all the razors and unfolding them for fun how would you feel though if if you bought a razor and i would hate that or any phone and there were like fingerprints on it. You saw the seal was broken.

You saw it was open. I would hate it. And it's because I am definitely a stickler for a new thing's got to be new, and I got to be the one to peel the screen protector off. And if it's got fingerprints on it already, it's ruined. It doesn't actually matter, but it's kind of sad. It wouldn't matter to me if I was getting a discount. But if I'm paying full price, especially full price for something that's expensive,

although apparently it is discounted from retail. I guess they've dropped the price on the Razr already, probably. We can only assume due to poor sales, but yeah, I'm not paying that much money to have someone open it before me. Yeah, there's a reason open box items usually cost less.

Also, I just have a quick story about, that reminded me about shipping. A lot of people were giving me crap about, oh, wow, you're being super hard on FedEx and FedEx is struggling this time and they have a lot going on. Listen, they completely lost the package. It's gone.

It's gone. It's not delayed. It's not slower. It's not like some inefficiencies and I was being ruthless. That package, that Pixel 5 is lost forever. Yeah, and it would also, I would feel worse for it if they like helped us at all. There's just, it is so hard to talk to a real person at

FedEx. And I get it. Like most people calling are probably trying to do something really simple, but there's, you should still have an option when you understand that just the tracking number is not helping you enough and that something is legitimately lost in the mail. But when you understand that just the tracking number is not helping you enough and that something is legitimately lost in the mail. But when you finally got to talk to someone, they told you, wait one more day, call back again. You finally got to talk to someone the next day and they said, oh, wait one more day, call us back again. I got told, oh, we'll file a claim. Here's your case number. And if nothing gets updated for two days call back so okay i got a case number nothing updated i waited like a couple more days nothing happened called back i said here's my case number nothing happened and they go oh all right yeah contact your shipper because

they got to talk to fedex to get their money back for shipping it i'm like all right well that's gone forever yeah so i'm not being hard on fedex fedex is being bad yeah they just blew it okay uh let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We've got a lot to talk about. Console wars, tech, embargoes. We'll be right back. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long.

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Having someone to talk to is truly a gift, especially during the holidays. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com. Okay, welcome back. So I just want to jump right into the deep end of consoles coming out in 2020. 2020 has been, well, a crazy year. Let's not get into that. I don't want to dive off that deep end. But I think it's awesome that, you know,

we see consoles come out every couple of years. It's a very generational thing. It's not like the new iPhone where there's a new one every single year. I mean, sometimes there's a slim version and a special edition, but we get generational consoles, right? And also conveniently at the same time, we're also getting these really big leaps with graphics cards with the RTX series and the RX series.

And so now there's this new feud of like all these new GPUs coming out and the PC gaming market is thriving again, but also this big generational leap in consoles. And really at the end of the day, we're looking at PS5 and Xbox Series X. My opinion right now on these consoles, but basically we just have the retail boxes. We've seen the hardware, we're getting into testing them.

But from the outside looking in, the hype for PS5 I've seen is way stronger. And I think that's a function of supply and demand. And to explain that a little more, supply and demand. People want to see these consoles, right? They want to see what the UI looks like. They want to see what gaming looks like. They want to know what speed is like. Do they overheat?

What's the design like? What's in the box? And the market of YouTube and media land is flooded with Xbox content, which because they have given it out to a bunch of people. They had the dummies before they even shipped them and people did videos on those. And then the console, they've done like six different embargoes about all these different hardware and load time features and all these things have happened already. And now they're finally getting the boxes, blah, blah, blah. It's just endless, relentless content where PS5 has been, again, probably similar level of demand, but very, very, what's the word I want to use? It's very deliberate what they choose to release. We went straight from

like they showed the ui they showed some games they showed the price like they've gone a much more lockstep uh release strategy it's still a little bit crazy but i think they've they've successfully navigated supply and demand to the point where people are more into the PS5 content. I'm curious what you think. I like, I go back and forth on what I think Sony's doing in terms of their marketing on this. It's like, are they pulling off a kind of like Supreme style marketing where it's like, here's a really hyped piece of product that's just going to like, you're going to hear nothing about it. And then it drops and everyone loses their mind and it creates its own hype because you didn't know a lot about it and it's just by in nature a hype machine whereas xbox is yes it's the direct competitor there's so many things similar about the two of them but like it is flooded you see stuff about it all the time and

i i honestly think that's because they're i think microsoft's marketing team's fantastic and they're really good at working with creators and giving them opportunities like like you said with the fridge they did before like uh that's great marketing but at a point is your are you seeing it too much and you're just like i've seen it i've seen it i've seen it i've seen it i haven't seen it, I've seen it, I've seen it, I haven't seen it. PlayStation 5 did that live stream where the guy dissected it and went through the end. No one who's buying the PlayStation 5 really cares about that. That's true. But it was just a chance to see it again because no one really had seen it up to that point. And in that, they showed the loading screen on it where it just said,

please connect your controller. And people thought that they were so pumped about it. on it where it just said like please connect your controller and people thought that they were so pumped about it so but then on the other hand i wonder if that's what sony's purposefully doing right because we've talked about sony and their phones and their really poor marketing and have they just accidentally stumbled into a hype machine with this that they i highly doubt it's accidental because they just have too much marketing dollars in it. So I think both the marketing teams are very smart and very large teams, right? I think with these products, like you mentioned Supreme, like just dropping random products. I think those random products don't have a legacy of buildup and people waiting for them.

And so when you're Microsoft or Sony right now, you know that for years people are waiting for the next generation. So when the PS5 is going to come out, you can slowly, slowly tease it and tease it a little bit until it drops. And same for Xbox. And so because they know this, they've gone about different strategies to try to smartly maximize that. Xbox is kind of pulling a OnePlus,

where when we're like six months away from a new OnePlus phone, they'll go, hey, our next phone's going to have a Snapdragon 865 plus. And you're going, well, okay, yeah, I guess, probably it's going to have the newest, better chip. And then like three weeks later, they're like, hey, it's going to have more RAM. And you're like, okay, yes, they're going to slowly tease the specs and they'll go, it'll have 120 Hertz. And they'll go, it's going to have a bigger screen. And like six months later, after you've teased every single little possible thing and had press and press and press and article and article and article,

it finally comes out. And if you're OnePlus or if you're Xbox, you're hoping that that's the crescendo to all the press and everything that's been building this whole time. Everyone's been waiting. They know everything about it already, but they just can't wait to get it for themselves because they've seen it. And I think that's one version

of playing it smart. The other version is the Sony, the PS5 version, and even maybe to an extent Apple, where you just don't say that much. I mean, Apple doesn't say anything, right? But if you're Sony, you don't say that much, but you know that every single thing that you publish about the PS5 will be relentlessly scrutinized and watched. And so you sort of turn the faucet up just a little bit, just a little leak. Here's the price. Here's the design. Here's like a teardown. Yeah, I think it started with like the PS5 logo and people lost it.

Yeah, just the logo. I think that was at like, that was at CES, wasn't it? Yeah, and then like the boot screen and then the UI. It slowly comes out and it's like one after another. And it's the same thing. It's still a crescendo at the end when it finally launches and you can get your own. But it's a bit more,

I like that strategy better, to be honest. I think that that's more efficient. I think that it's a better strategy definitely for just like pure hype behind it. like i miss the days where we get like big reveals and playstation might be one of those things where like they still actually reveal things and you get that pure just like i mean i always think about a lot of video game launches it happens with like smash brothers a lot when they they make a trailer and like some new character comes out and it's at some big convention and the whole audience like stands up and starts cheering like that doesn't

happen very much anymore and playstation is something that stuff like that happens for um i am a little i wonder why they didn't send it out to more creators i get exclusivity kind of stuff and like creating uh like i have an answer not being flooded yeah but it still felt super super confined and like yeah i feel like there's one or two other gaming channels out there that it could have benefited from fully agree while keeping the same level of hype yeah i think for them it's part hype, but also part control. And what they very, because this is also something Apple does, and something you'll see people who criticize Apple and Apple critics all the time about, which is like, Apple will send this device to like nine places. And all these nine places have to carefully navigate being one of the only places to have

this thing, but also trying to tell the truth. And if you say too much bad, do you ruin being one of the only places to have this thing, but also trying to tell the truth. And if you say too much bad, do you ruin being one of the first next time? And I guess, you know, this channel, we're in a, I guess, incredibly fortunate position where I feel like, no, I don't have any muzzle. Like I'll say exactly what I feel about this device, but that's not true about everyone. They feel a pressure to say nice things about the thing they got because being one of the first nine or whatever it is is great now apple can use that leverage to slowly remove an ad to keep them saying nice things and i think that's a little bit true of what sony's doing where they're not

going to send it to 30 youtubers because well now it just looks like it'll go out anywhere and anyone can say anything and it'll just go to everywhere uh So it's a little bit of control thing, I think. I can see that. The only thing I can say is out of the few people they sent it to is like, I don't see many of them being ones who would be controlled by that. Controlled sounds so like- It was kind of a weird selection though. Yeah, it's just a weird selection, I thought.

Everyone they sent it to talks about games at some point. We're all in tech. I mean, we're going to talk about games no matter what. It's the PlayStation. And that's another thing for us as well is we would have no reason to not tell the truth about it because we could get a PlayStation eventually. Gaming's not the main thing. That's not going to make or break this channel.

It helped it. On the other other hand definitely numbers going into another that we had the best best views ever on the channel in 24 hour period oh yeah you want to know the number partially helps on iphone um it's yeah do you want to look up numbers and i'll just finish my thought on what uh yeah yeah i just think i could see one or two other more gaming channels. Like Austin and Juddner are the first two that come to mind, really. And maybe I'm super biased because I like both of them a lot and I like their channels a lot. But they just feel like channels that love stuff like that

and have an audience who absolutely love stuff like that and it would really benefit from it. Yeah, I think they could have sent it to a couple more. I'm surprised those two didn't get one mostly. Yeah. who absolutely love stuff like that and it would really benefit from it. Yeah, I think they could have sent it to a couple more. I'm surprised those two didn't get one mostly. Yeah. So now that we've gone through all of that, the hype is real for PS5. And again, it comes out once every few years,

but I was expecting most hyped, and by most hyped, I mean most clicked, highest click-through product of the year to probably be iPhone. It usually is. This year, out of the first, so, two days and 10 hours of being live, the iPhone 12 unboxing has 9 million views, and the PlayStation 5 unboxing had 9.2 million views,

and it stayed just ahead of the iPhone. So it is, I think, fair to say the PS5 is the most hyped product, at least on the channel this year. And we cover a good variety. Yeah, that we've done for sure. Yeah, and that ended up creating the single highest view count day of the channel's history.

Yeah, and that just also is because the stars aligned and iPhone was like still running its course in the background on that one. There's a lot going on. Two pretty hyped TikToks we made off of it. Oh yeah oh i think it's fun because it's one of those things where you don't have to be an in-depth tech nerd you can benefit if you're a big nerd and a big gamer and ps5 is going to be amazing but like people play games that's just a norm we have for our generation and console games are so easily accessible. So PlayStation's hyped by so

many people that probably aren't watching our smartphone videos, but are going to tune in because they just want to see the PlayStation. And I think it's, it's arguably just a straight up bigger target demographic. The new iPhone, when it comes out every single year, iPhone 12 is targeted to people who buy iPhones who don't have like the latest iPhone. They have like a two, three, four-year-old iPhone versus PlayStation 5 coming out this year is like we want this thing in every home in America and everywhere. We want this to be the Christmas present of choice. We want this to be the gift people give for the next four or five months. So it's just a very broad brush. I have to say as as much as I...

I don't really play consoles that much anymore. I think, honestly, the best console to buy if you mostly play on PC is a Switch because it's just a whole nother... It's a whole nother beast and it's completely different. Almost every... Most games you can play on Xbox and PlayStation, you can also play on the computer.

So there's not a big choice where the Switch has a ton of exclusive stuff you won also play on the computer. So there's not a big choice where the Switch has a ton of exclusive stuff you won't get on the computer. But I miss the days of growing up and wanting the new console for Christmas. I was super lucky and I got an Xbox and I got an Xbox 360 out of PlayStation when I was younger. My parents were great. My mom surprised me with an Xbox.

I thought there was no chance I was getting it. But getting that for Christmas was the coolest thing ever. And you just sat the entire Christmas day in front of the TV. That's probably why our parents get it. They're like, I just want to relax on Christmas. This will definitely entertain him for the rest of the day. Yeah. My first console ever was the PS4.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait the day. Yeah. My first console ever was the PS4. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, really? Yeah. I had a friend with a GameCube a long time ago. Okay. I never owned a console. I had a... You were after N64, right?

That was like the hype. Yeah. So I had a PC, and I eventually started getting a little bit into PC gaming, but my first ever video game console was in college. I got a PS4 Pro and then ps5 i mean that's it that's the that's the entire story huh it's funny my whole life growing up was like i had one console but i always had a friend with the the competition so i was like i was a

playstation first while my friend had an n64 then i turned into an xbox person but i always had a friend that had a playstation 2 or like my cousin had a Playstation 2 and like you always had your friends that you knew if one game came out exclusively for one like everyone was hanging out at their house for a while or everyone was hanging out at your house for a while yeah my friend had a Gamecube and I had a

swing set in the backyard and that was pretty tight no when we talk about consoles though I feel like we also have to talk about these insane embargo, series of embargoes that happen around them. This is something we've been talking about a lot behind the scenes just between us,

but it felt like it needed to be talked about. It is fascinating to me. So for years and years and years, we've observed this embargo phenomenon where, breaking news in case you didn't realize that the nine videos in your sub box at the same time were for a reason, we've done a whole episode about this. They are because the products are sent out specifically to people who will review or talk about the product before the product comes out so that by the time the product comes out, these people can spend time with it and publish something about their thoughts.

But in order to keep this a secret and not leak too much information to competitors or before the announcement, there is an embargo, date and time, before which you are not allowed to talk about the thing. I think it also kind of protects creators a little bit in the sense of it allows people you mentioned it but i think just securing the fact that it allows creators to not worry about taking the time to get to know the product and know that somebody on the east coast might get it quicker than someone on the west coast and then they're just going to rush to get a video out as soon as possible and be the first it keeps people on an even playing field so when you think

about it like that embargoes make total sense and i'm totally in favor of embargoes what we're getting to is i mean my personal opinion is we're they're taking advantage of embargoes and starting to overstep almost and to be totally honest i it. It's like a natural evolution of, wait a second, instead of making, because I talked about this with the truth about the red iPhone. The iPhone, the red iPhone always came out like six months later.

And it came out six months later, even though it didn't have to, they could have made it the next day is because it was just a second nice wave of reminding people that there's a new iPhone and getting people to buy a new iPhone. So six months after the original iPhone announcement, there'd be boom, new red version. Oh, new iPhone. It's the same phone, it's just red, but new press wave. Now it's evolved into, hmm, okay, we have one product

coming out. Why don't we give all of the information and all the product to all the people we want, but only let them talk about our first big feature on this date, and then our second big feature three days later, and then our third big feature the next week? And so what that creates is everyone who has that thing, you know, is eagerly trying to wait to unveil what they've found and their findings on this thing. So embargo number one comes along and everyone wants to share the thing. And so that creates that first wave of press. And then embargo number two comes along. And ideally in this company's world, again, they want to share the thing. So they share more and they share more. And it just falls into this lockstep

commercial. So instead of just OnePlus going, hey, our new phone has 6 gigs of RAM. Instead, it's every reviewer who's had the phone following this, and OnePlus isn't doing this, but it's them following now this staggered embargo where everyone is chiming in at once.

It will have 6 gigs of RAM. And they can all say just that but can't talk about the hardware, can't talk about the software. So that's what's happening. Yeah, and it's weird. So like in a perfect world, I think there's a lot of people out there

who would say, hey, reviewer, you don't agree with all these embargoes. There's three of them. Why don't you just wait till the last one and do all of it? But even if we really, mean one yes it does suck to lose the views when you release at an embargo you get out first that's just a thing i do think we're a channel that's

lucky enough to posting first isn't always a first priority for us there have been plenty of times where we've waited hours or even a day after an embargo because we didn't feel like it was up to our standards. But at the same time, they know that the audiences of these channels are going to relentlessly beg, where is this video? Where is this video? If we decided to skip iPhone unboxing

and wait like a week, I cannot tell you how much, like how many comments we would get on every, every video would be plagued with where's the iPhone unboxing. It would have nothing to do with the, the, the business MKBHD email. I probably would just ignore it for a week because it would be please iPhone unboxing. I need it right now. Yeah. I think the iPhone is a great example. So we got the iPhone 12, now yeah i think the iphone is a great example so we got the iphone 12 12 pro i think it was four or five days before the embargo and there's one embargo for apple this year great uh so in my opinion i have two phones i have to test them all this is also at the same time that i'm testing pixel 5 and a couple other things are happening so in my mind i already know there's no way i'm

finishing my entire review of even one of these phones in five days of testing it and shooting it. So I know that the embargo date is a certain day, certain time, 9 a.m., whatever it is. I'll basically just publish a little quick hands-on and impressions and share, yes, I have the phone. And you even hear me say in the video, by the time you watch this, I've the phone and you even hear me say in the video by the time you watch this I've begun testing and begun reviewing the iPhone and the review comes out later and again that is a little bit of a symptom of feeling the pressure of like if I don't publish anything or if I just I don't know just tweet a picture of the box or something like immediately people are like well I'm not learning anything from this channel I'll just go to other channels and you might even see this comment sometimes on videos where oh I didn't really learn anything from this channel. I'll just go to other channels. And you might even see this comment sometimes on videos where, oh, I didn't really learn anything from this video. I've seen

this all already. Well, there you go. That's the pressure of being early. That still exists no matter how big the channel is. So yeah, I think the iPhone is a great example. I think some channels can play to their advantage and just publish as many things as possible at every single embargo and just no problem. Just make all the things. Some have no problem with that. It's a tough decision you have to make sometimes and realize that there are channels out there that rely on views.

And if a video tanks, it could be a super big hit to them. So it kind of sucks. But I think what we're saying is we don't want to get too in-depth into these embargoes, but the console one specifically, and you can probably see from videos we've posted about, we've been very upfront with what we're allowed to say and what we're not allowed to say in these because we know every time we do something, people are going to be like, well, why didn't you talk about this, this, and this? So we're at the point where we kind of have to talk about the embargoes that we have. These console ones have been rough, to say the least. They're not my least favorite, though. You know what my least favorite was?

Weirdly, the Surface Duo, where it felt like it was protecting part of the product that was worse. Yeah, I didn't like that either. That was, for those who don't remember, it was the Surface Duo. Initial embargo was a couple of days after we received it, but we still weren't allowed to turn it on or show any software, but we could talk as much about the hardware as we wanted. And then later playing to their strengths, possibly was it after the release date? It might not have been after. I don't know. And that's something I want to talk about. Okay. But yeah, later, eventually we're also able to review them in which we can turn them on and show everything else. And that to me weirdly felt like intentionally protecting the worst part of the product

with the embargo. It's a weird thing of are they, and maybe this is the same thing, are they being shady and trying to get you to not see the bad thing or are they playing to their strengths and getting you to see the good thing? Because the Duo's hardware was the best.

I mean, it's tough. It's tough. And like Marquez said to start this whole thing embargoes make sense for the company it's i think the creator is the one who's getting hit by it a little more and it's uh they got more choices to make yeah for sure so but you may brought up a really good point which is i want to ask you like what do you think your ideal embargo is? A fair embargo that helps the company and helps the creator, which if both of those are helped,

ultimately helps the audience. And I think to me, when you mentioned release date, that is hands down the most important thing for me. And we came up, I thought of that today perfectly. We're in the middle of working on the iPhone 12 Pro review and while it's way past embargo, we're just super busy. I personally think I'm fine with max two embargoes. I think an unboxing first impressions one,

especially if there's an event, is totally fine. And then after that, full review embargo can be a little longer to make sure everybody gets their units and takes ample amount of time to do them. But I think both embargoes should be out before any pre-order date. I don't think any person should have to worry about not getting their pre-order in on the first day and then having to wait months and months to actually get their product just because they want to wait to see some reviews so okay here's what I'll say if you are a company that's coming out with a product on December 1st right if you are going to send out review units I would I would say send them at least a week before you aim to have that product on sale so that there's a week

for people to evaluate it that's's a good, healthy amount. More is always better. And have that embargo drop before people have to make the decision to buy it or not. Because, I mean, that's just a win for, it's a courtesy, but it's a win for customers so they can know, okay, I do like this. I wanna buy it.

Let me be early online versus I don't know if I wanna buy buy it, let me be early online, versus I don't know if I want to buy it or not, and if I wait, then I'm at the back of the line. Now, there are going to be companies who come out with products that don't send products to reviewers. This happens all the time. They're going to have a product that's going to come out December 1st, they don't send any of the products to any reviewers, they just drop it, and if people want to buy it,

then they want to buy it. That's also fine, but don't expect people to immediately buy it if they don't know if it's good or not because there are no reviews. Depends on what the company is, what the product is. There are way more variables. But I think like a week generally is a good amount of time for people to actually evaluate the goods and bads about things like smartphones, tablets, laptops.

Yeah, I think most reviewers have have a good enough like game plan and knowledge and familiarity with most products to be able a week is pretty fair to get a good amount of base thoughts down that would probably convince someone whether to buy something or which one to buy of it yeah um i think i think there is if you have a good product, there is zero harm for making a full review embargo before your launch date because if you truly believe in your product, then nothing bad should be coming out of those reviews

that would deter that many people. I think the more you go into letting people spend their hard-earned money before professionals' opinions are out, the more it looks into letting people spend their hard-earned money before professionals' opinions are out, the more it looks like you could potentially be hiding something and just hoping to make money before informed decisions are being made. So I'll wrap that up saying there's a bunch of red flags. As a reviewer, when I see certain things, that is a red flag about the product itself which is kind of funny number one is we saw this with the first fold actually

where the product is like yep we'll send it to you for three days and then we need it back immediately that's a red flag that's obviously a red flag for fold it was a durability concern the another embargo is or another red flag for fold it was a durability concern um the another embargo is or another red flag excuse me is uh you're not allowed to say anything about like this you know particular set of things that sometimes is a red flag a lot of times it's just like here's your first impressions embargo here's your review embargo when it's separated into you can't talk about the software but you can literally review the hardware that's a little bit of a red flag. And then I think the last red flag is when the review embargo is significantly after pre-orders

start to happen, where everyone has to make their purchase choice. They've all gotten in line, they've given their money, and then the reviews are going to drop. And then people realize, oh, there was a thing I didn't know about this product. I wish I didn't buy it now. Now I have to return it, stuff like that. That's the last red flag. So if you can avoid those red flags as a company, please do. Yeah. And like, I know there's a side to PR and companies and marketing and stuff that like, you know, maybe there's a lot of stuff we don't, you're listening right now and we're talking about things that we don't understand, but like just know from, from our side. And I think generally the audience is on our side on this, that this is how we see things. So maybe, maybe it's time to start thinking a little different about some of these.

Also built into the number of days of testing for us anyway is a production time maybe that's writing time for an article but production time for video so if you only give people 24 hours to review something they have to use like 12 of those hours to make the actual video so don't expect anything too thorough when the embargo time especially if you give an embargo and then decide to change it last minute oh yeah just remember we're all working on stuff too. Not everyone can drop what they're working on and just pump a video out. Exactly. Yeah, there's a lot of shaded,

there's a lot of veiled criticisms here that we'll never say the actual companies that do this, but man, lots of stuff happens behind the scenes. I don't know, I dropped some names. I said Surface Duo. I'm letting people know about the fold. Anyway, okay, that's probably enough embargo talk. Let's take another quick break, and we'll come right back and talk tech. This holiday season, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is counting on your support.

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All right, we're back. We're closing in on 7 o'clock now, and I have to get this podcast edited into Studio 71 in like two or three hours. So I'm starting to tire out. We're going to end this by a really quick game I decided to do so one, we can get this done and I can start editing, and two, because we didn't want the recap to last forever,

but we've covered so many phones since the last episode um so what we're gonna do is i'm going to take the one two three four five six phones that we've covered on the channel since the last episode and we're just gonna play a little game both of us are gonna say one thing we liked about the phone and one thing we didn't like about the phone and hopefully that should make anyone listening here decide if they want to go watch the review or something on the channel or if they decide I don't care at all. And then you're good.

Okay. So you have to say one good thing and one bad thing about the iPhone. Yeah, I feel like we're going to agree with a lot of things here, but that's fine. All right. Cool. Let's just start straight iPhone.

We're working on iPhone 12 brochure probably might be out by the time this podcast so if not congratulations you get a little sneak peek on something here but uh so iphone 12 pro yeah do iphone 12 pro okay something i like about iphone 12 bro pro i like the satin back and i love the color but i was gonna say blue 12 pro is the best color iPhone that's ever come out. Pacific blue quality color. Good luck. Something I don't like about the 12 Pro, no ProMotion.

That might have been a predictable one. The Pro iPhone costs $1,000, and the Pro iPhone has a Pro camera, and the Pro iPhone has a Pro port, and the Pro iPhone has ProRAW, and the Pro iPhone does ProRes, and the Pro iPhone does not have ProMotion. And I am sad about that one. I'll go different. I just, I really don't like that it has technically a different camera setup than 12 Pro Max. I think that's weird.

I think that's a really weird flaw in that. I think they should be the same. I think it reminds me of note 10 and note 10 plus when they were like that you're just supposed to be choosing a size difference you're not supposed to be sacrificing any actual specs on there but uh in a dream world it's just a different size yeah but apple has left that train and now we're all off the train. Okay. What do you like about the iPhone 12 Pro? I said Pacific Blue, best color that iPhone has ever been. Okay. The game is you got to make one.

The game is you got to make your own? Yeah. See, I'm not an Apple user. Oh, now you got to stretch for it. I do have to say, I... A good one. A really good one. I mean, like, this is one of the first years

where I've seriously been considering getting an iPhone. That being said, I'd probably be just a regular 12. Okay. There's got to be something. The color is the thing I like the most about it. There's got to be something. The 12 Pro. You're considering getting a phone for the first time because the color is so good?

No, no, no, no, no. I'm considering getting a 12, not a 12 Pro. So there's nothing that great about the 12 Pro? I don't think there's anything that great about the 12 Pro. Oh, man. I think the color is the best thing. I mean, cool, yeah, it's the new iPhone, and it has better RAM.

It's brighter. That's great. Sorry. All right, we got it. The blue is my thing that I had. The iPhone 12, I mean, it also is in the 12 Pro, but the design is amazing. With the it also is in the 12 Pro, but the design is amazing. With the new different widgets and stuff in iOS, I've never wanted an iPhone more.

It's a great phone. And the fact, the best part about, I think, the iPhone 12 is there's no, almost, there's very little sacrifice when it comes to the screen now. It's that little tiny nip brightness, little less, but other than that. Bro, that's a lot of good stuff about one phone. You only had to say one, but you just named like three. Yeah, well, I felt like I had to name more because I did so poorly with the 12 Pro. All right, so what's a bad thing?

The color. Oh, no. The red color's so bad. That's actually true. It's not red. That's true. It's like the opposite, yeah. Yeah red color is so bad. That's actually true. It's not red. That's true. It's like the opposite. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like salmon. Okay. Pacific blue on a regular 12 would just be. Yeah, they got a little crazy with the blues. It's a very different blue. Okay, iPhone 12. Let me say a good thing about iPhone 12. Well, you said design, and I'm with you on that.

You said a lot of things. What did you not say? So, does square sides count? You said design already so square sides already let me just say a14 bionic being a five nanometer chip and probably being future-proof for a very long time is pretty sweet big fan of great future-proof chips in all types of phones fastest iphone ever fastest iphone ever you bet something i don't like about iphone 12 i already also agree with you i don't like that product red let me also say i wish apple

increased the size of their sensors just a bit on their cameras now that's a there's a caveat to this which is it's hard to do that well you would just think like oh bigger sensor more more images what you just think bigger sensor, more light, more pixels, like that's an easy formula. But we've seen with like phones like S20 Ultra, when you get like a giant 100 megapixel, like 1 over 1.2 inch sensor, you always get like weird fringing issues and suddenly the plane of focus is super thin.

So maybe F1.6 was just all they needed to do. But I kind of wish Apple would make a leap with their cameras because it was pretty incremental this year. So there's my dislike. All right, let's go Pixel 5. I'll start this one off so I can't accidentally say the same thing and then completely struggle to find something else. Pixel 5, best part.

I'll just say battery. I think battery encompasses all the things I really didn't like about the Pixel 4, ultimately. One thing I don't like about, I'm dying for an XL version. Like I'm totally fine stepping down from like premium flagship, if as long as it just has a bigger screen. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll say for Pixel 5, the thing I like is it's the best looking front of a Pixel ever. And that's the side you have to look at. I'm not a fan of the mint green. I'm not even that into the plastic on top of metal. But whatever. I'm not looking at the back all the time.

I love the front of the phone. Looks great. The front of the last few Pixels have been rough. They've been really rough. So that's a plus for Pixel. Negative for Pixel 5. I'm going to say future-proof. I'm going to say this is a, I mean, it's a $700 phone,

but it's going to be, we already know, it's going to be slashed. But if I was to use a phone like that, I would have wanted the highest-end chip. I would have wanted more RAM. I would have wanted a 120-hertz display. I would have wanted it to feel like the bleeding-edge performer that I'm so used to. So I kind of want

the xl you want a pixel ultra i guess i would have probably heard of your first pixel ultra coming out hit twitter okay huawei mate 40 pro i think we all know what we don't like about this yeah this is probably a pretty unanimous one we like the hardware we don't like the software is that is that fair i mean well we don't like that you basically can't one. We like the hardware. We don't like the software. Is that fair? I mean, well, we don't like that you basically can't use the software in the US. I'll actually say I don't like... Oh, it's weird. I appreciate, but at the same time don't like how curved the screen is.

That's a good one. Holy cow, is it a good looking phone? And the fact that they have to push the power button backwards to make it happen, it looks amazing. Filming it was super fun, and I would hate using it. That's a very good point.

So yeah. So that's your like and dislike? Yeah, there it is. I did it. The two for one. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I like the design. I like the hardware, the feel on the hand.

I don't like the software experience. That kind of, yeah, that's in the review. How about, how about LG wing? LG wing. That's in there. It's just so fun. Yeah. I think that's what I like. It's fun. It's new. It's exciting. It's different. It's built different. It's built different. Isn't that like home Depot or Lowe's or. Oh, it's a lot of things it's a tiktok name it's it's all the things it's built different lebron's built different or ford maybe i don't know oh that's built tough built you're close ford tough ford is built tough and home depot is like whatever i don't know okay where are we lg wing lg wing is built different what do you not like about the wing though um it's part of me wants to say size it seems so big like unwieldy almost um and it's not even and i don't think that's because of the extra

screen i think it's just they made it too big if not that uh it feels almost impossible to like maybe they make a protector for it, but the case for it doesn't protect the front of the phone. And I'm, the only reason I ever buy a case is because I want it to protect the front of, have a lip so the screen doesn't hit the ground. So to me, a case, like the little case it comes with on the back is pointless

and just makes it more bulky. So yeah, it lacks having protection where it's still a $1,000 phone. True. LG Wing, for me, I'll say a good thing about it. Sound effects. Sound effects were good. You open that thing, it sounds like a sidekick.

There's also a software sound it plays. You close it, it's very satisfying, but it also plays a sound and sounds really good. So it's a good sounding phone. Despite the lack of a quad DAC and a headphone jack, I like the sound of the LG Wing. How dare you mention it. Yeah.

And something I don't like, I'm going to go with the lack of, the inevitable lack of software support. Because all of the, I said this in maybe a previous episode, potential is not useful. Meaning this phone has crazy potential. think of all the things it could be if developers were like making their greatest apps and lg wing compatible and separating ui elements and putting one on one screen and one on the other

the map thing going on for playing asphalt on the main screen and the map on the second screen imagine that for like yeah everyone goes through that that would be amazing it's not happening saw one which was an interesting not integrated like that but somebody was playing fortnite and they had like a list of like i forget if it was like gun upgrades or places on the map that are good to drop above it like a guide almost on top of it amazing yeah it's such a good idea yeah potential i think the only other thing i can think of right off the bat if my case i don't know if my case answer was kind of a cop-out for that my biggest gripe when physically using the phone was the animation was just too slow when

you first flip it out if it was snappier and when you for like the whole screen comes out before the bottom screen turns on, and then it comes on, and then it swivels. If it, like, just started those animations and those animations were snappier as it started flipping, I think it would make that experience just so much more, like, fluid. When I saw that, it was so egregious, and I saw that, I was like,

there's gotta be a good reason for it there's no way all of lg yeah like saw this phone open up and then one second later flips the ui open and my guess is this whole ui would be a real pain to keep in ram and would probably crush battery and the problem is they have to load it up every single time. It's like loading up the camera app. It kind of just takes a minute to get there. So I feel like that's a next gen problem to solve. If you're able to keep more of that in RAM to load faster, if you can break it down,

I don't know, but I just, yeah, I see that. I'm like, wow, LG definitely saw that and was like, that's the best we can do right now. It's funny because it reminds me of their dual screen case, which takes an extra second to come on, but that's an accessory. So I didn't have as much of an issue with it because it's this added bonus.

This was their two screen result of an integrated phone that still felt somehow like it was lagging behind their other accessories so yeah yeah okay uh last one one plus eight yeah we weren't even done yet we've covered a lot of phones one plus eight t huh uh should i go first sure one good thing about one plus eight t is that display that 120 hertz with super high touch refresh That is the smoothest phone in its class. Really great optimization by the OnePlus team to make that phone feel super smooth. Oxygen OS 11, just awesome smoothness.

One thing I don't like about the OnePlus 8T is that the cameras are noticeably inferior again to the Pro even. I'm back on the OnePlus 8 Pro on my Android phone. So I'll say the cameras are my dislike with the Pro even. I'm back on the OnePlus 8 Pro on my Android phone. So I'll say the cameras are my dislike with the 8T. I have to say, OnePlus is at this point

where they release so many phones, I'm so confused. So I feel like I might say a pro or con here and I might be talking about the wrong phone. I'll let you know. I'll tell you.

I'll tell you a pro and I think this is one you probably disagree with. I actually love the color that it came in and I know I'm not the only one. That minty seafoam. Yeah, I guess it was. pro and i think this is one you probably disagree with i actually love the color that it came in and i know i'm not the only one that minty foam yeah i guess it was uh claire saw a thumbnail on our tv of that and she's like what's that i want that phone well she has a one plus she has a one plus

five but she has the color of it i guess she just liked the color of it a lot she's like that's a really nice looking color interesting cool cool color i do i do appreciate good colors um one thing i don't like about it it just i don't see where it fits in the lineup at all that was our biggest right in between right in between nothing are they because they're making they're making two more nord phones now there's's all the low-end Nord. Yeah, those are lower. So the whole Nord lineup is clearly targeted towards maximizing value, and then you have the 8 Pro, which is their best possible phone. They finally water-resistant.

But you just have the 8 also, which is basically the 8T. Well, the 8T replaces the 8 in the middle, where it's worse cameras, it's not wireless charging, it's not IP certified, but it's a little more expensive, and it's got the 120 hertz. It's just awkwardly in the middle where it's worse cameras it's not wireless charging it's not ip certified but it's a little more expensive and it's got the 120 hertz it's just awkwardly in the middle you just explained my reasoning perfectly yeah it's the awkward i don't get it yeah yeah um okay there we go that's a lot of phones we have a lot of phones to cover we have almost every phone that i think we're going to get in 2020 which means time for my favorite video of the

year oh i know where you're going smartphone camera bracket yep the i just have way too much fun it's like one of those experiments where we don't we don't have to write the whole video up front it kind of starts writing itself for us and gets to have some really fun twists and turns that we didn't really think would happen we gotta get the 12 pro max yes we still need to get that in one more phone we're trying not to tell you how many but clearly the best iphone sensor is going to be in the market so that is what we're waiting for before we can start this yeah but once that gets here i think we're covered we got pixels we got one plus we got everything here uh yeah that's gonna be a fun that and the smartphone awards are my two like favorite like end of year things yeah shout out to retro tech season two has begun production that'll come out in early 2021 so that's also sort of something we're working on but a lot of good year-end projects

also happening but technically also still tectober so yeah marquez is probably running on like six hours of sleep for the week right now yeah i, I mean, it's worth it though. This is a fun week. Yeah, so also I feel like I'm physically drained after recording this. I feel like I came into here super hyped and I thought this was going to be a really efficient episode. Before the first ad break was like 13 minutes

and I was ramped up ready to go. I feel like I just got hit by a truck. I feel like the volume on my microphone has probably gone down because I've just lost so much hype behind this. But yeah, I think that's where we're going to end it and I'm just going to go let my eyes bleed while I edit this and hope I get it to Mark in time.

XDR, baby. We got some high-res stuff to send your way. Yeah, thanks for listening to this episode of Waveform. It's still Techtober, but also like that always bleeds into November and I don't really have a good name for tech member. Like that doesn't sound good. So speaking of November, we're going to give you another episode next week too. Yeah. Just be ready. It's a good time. Definitely make sure to tweet at us at WVFRM. Let us know what kind of stuff you want to see. Trainhorn, let us know if you want to see other smartphones in the smartphone bracket like you definitely want to see in there.

That's something you should send our way too. And we'll catch you guys next week. Waveform is brought to you in part with Studio 71 and our intro outro music was created by Cameron Barlow.