Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - RIP to Internet Explorer and New EV Talk

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

We're back with a good old-fashioned Waveform episode! Marques and Andrew start off by talking about the end of Internet Explorer and Andrew has a brief story time about his editing horror story on la...st week's podcast. After that, they go deep on upcoming EVs. Plus, trivia is back! Links: Internet Explorer animation: https://twitter.com/JonErlichman/status/1537050621408382977 Twitters: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/adamlukas17 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ Shop the merch: shop.mkbhd.com Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Uncertainty. Self-doubt. Stressing about not knowing where to start. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Word art. Sorry, we have laugh lovers. In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today.
Starting point is 00:00:33 Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. What's going on, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.
Starting point is 00:00:59 And I'm Andrew. And this week, we've got another EV-heavy Waveform episode. Just because there's a lot of that going on, and we kind of want Eevee heavy wave form episode. Just because there's a lot of that going on and we kind of want to talk about some of that stuff. But first, we should have a moment of silence. For someone special that we all know and love. We all knew them at some point and I think we all had various experiences with them. Some may have been positive. Some may have been forgettable.
Starting point is 00:01:26 In this moment of peace, let's remember the good. Because they were around for a while. And we can celebrate the fact that they had a really impressive prime. Historic. Historic. We haven't seen a prime like that since the beginning, honestly. So at 27 years old, Microsoft ended support for Internet Explorer today on Wednesday, June 15th, as we record this.
Starting point is 00:01:52 No more security updates, no more software updates, no more patches. If you are still using it, I guess it theoretically might still work. Yeah, if you're still using it, you probably don't care about security patches, right? Yeah, that's exactly right um but let's just take a quick couple seconds to eulogize internet explorer
Starting point is 00:02:10 the number one chrome downloader of all number one of all time easily yeah um i saw a chart actually just the other day i'm gonna link a tweet it was a well not a chart it was a animated chart yeah showing the market share of different web browsers over time and it's you know netscape is kind of dominant for a while internet explorer comes up internet explorer i didn't know this but in like the early 2000s got to 95 percent market share it was in 2000 i think it was like q2 2004 talk about blowing a massive lead. That is... What a lead. That's one way to look at it.
Starting point is 00:02:47 What a lead Microsoft had in web browsers. And Firefox is on the come up for a while. I think they got as high as 20-something percent. Did they? Which is higher actually than I expected. It seemed like there was a big three for a while. There were people on Safari, Firefox, Internet Explorer. So Chrome, I guess, sort of erupted and became the number one.
Starting point is 00:03:07 But that was what I saw on a lot of computers. And then Chrome, you know, is the dominant one now. But nowhere near 95. 95 is crazy. I think Chrome is at like 80, something like that. And that's like, if you consider, if you're doing like all devices, it's because it's on so many Android phones. It's the default.
Starting point is 00:03:25 So like that's also why Safari is up there really high as well. Safari, every iPhone uses. Well, not everyone. Well, everyone comes with Safari. Exactly. And that's why Internet Explorer was so Windows like that. I mean, there probably will still be people using Internet Explorer for a very long time.
Starting point is 00:03:39 But I think Internet Explorer did a great job at raising its kin, Microsoft Edge. Yep. Microsoft Edge. I know there are a lot of fans out there. I think most of us had already picked our browser loyalty of choice. So maybe we're not Edge users, but I've heard a lot of good things about it. So let's hope it has a similar historic lifetime.
Starting point is 00:04:01 Yeah. The competition's good. Good competition. Appreciate you. But yeah, that's it uh goodbye internet explorer i think we need like a what was it 1995 to 2022 yeah 2022 good job um okay i have on here a little story time to start the podcast off today okay um if anybody follows us on twitter or watches the video podcast you may have realized last week looked a little different sure sure yeah um to start this off adam was on vacation last week we all love adam he deserves a vacation we will never
Starting point is 00:04:37 let him go on one again after less um but so pretty much in the process of the podcast, which is actually a pretty intense one because we went to WWDC, we flew out, got back Wednesday. We had a virtual interview with two Apple execs. There's a lot of different things going on. With Adam gone, I was in charge of editing the video portion of the podcast last week. last week now being someone who's not very good at final cut and a previous premiere user and someone who hasn't edited at all in like two years i was feeling okay going into it um and brought everything into premiere had everything lined up ellis was doing all the mixing of the audio stuff while i was doing all the cutting and the um the camera switching and that was all feeling really good i was feeling really confident and we were like really really on pace to get everything out on time on friday
Starting point is 00:05:30 and then we export the first cut for the audio stuff and because then after that i had to add b-roll and video ads and such like that and there's this like crackling noise and uh i'll we'll make sure we'll edit some of the crackling noise into this video so people can hear what this audio yeah so people can hear it just like okay you guys have all caught on it we do extreme transitions this one is just going to be craig doing extreme transitions yeah i think they saw how he got memed with the um remember him opening up the laptop it drove me insane it was really bad and we almost didn't catch it, actually, because weirdly enough, wasn't on the timeline.
Starting point is 00:06:09 And then after we exported it, it actually started playing in the timeline on Premiere. So in the export file and now on the timeline, I was listening to this crackling. I mean, it was just like constantly. That's my least favorite type of error,
Starting point is 00:06:23 which is, and this happens in final cut too with some plugins where it will play back perfectly on the timeline and then you export the video and then the exported video it messes up it's like this has happened with like motion track things before or i'll add like a sensor over a license plate and it tracks the license plate around the frame and then i'll export the video and then it'll track like the car tire around the frame and the export i'm like that that's not what you showed me on the timeline at all so it's even more hard to fix something like i remember you doing um one once where it was yeah it was like a lower third somewhere describing something and then
Starting point is 00:06:58 rather than it going horizontally it went vertically in the export and then on the timeline was totally fine but the export so like how do i fix this on the timeline do i just make it look ridiculous on the timeline and then it's perfect in the export it's weird yeah so so at first uh ellis and i are like looking over this we hear the crackling we're trying to figure out what's going on it's not playing if i closed premiere it would stop playing in the timeline but then it would still play in the exports and then eventually come back in the timeline. We were changing different audio codecs. We were changing like all the different ways to export it.
Starting point is 00:07:31 We were exporting in video, even though we only needed the audio. We were bringing it into media encoder. Nothing, nothing, nothing. I think I have 30 plus exports on my desktop and in my trash right now. And we just could not figure it out. So eventually we thought there were two solutions to this.
Starting point is 00:07:48 Run it through this de-crackling filter that Ellis had, or I was going to bring our Rodecaster, our audio interface in, I was going to plug my computer into it and play it in real time into the Rodecaster because the timeline was bad. Exactly. Wow. So we went with the Decrackle filter.
Starting point is 00:08:11 It sounded like very, very, very close to being right. That's what we actually wound up bringing into the audio on Thursday night, bring it back Friday morning, try and bring it in. So I actually took the export and the clean audio, brought it into Final Cut. And before I added the clean audio, it was fine in Final Cut. The export from Adobe
Starting point is 00:08:27 was working with no crackles in Final Cut. Oh, so you'd play it back like in QuickTime or something and hear the crackle. Yeah. But when you imported that exact file into Final Cut Pro and play it back on the Final Cut Pro timeline... No crackle. No crackle.
Starting point is 00:08:40 Yep. So I think we have it fixed. And then I export it from final cut and the crackles there yeah wow this was like the most infuriating 12 hours i feel like that i've experienced in a while yeah it wasn't in the raw recording no no it was not in the raw so you just the game is trying to find where that crackle was introduced at what point it was very hard eventually what we came down to ellis dove into my premiere project while i was trying to fix everything on a different computer so we could because like if you watch the video podcast it was like four hours late on friday it was pretty late but um so what happens
Starting point is 00:09:19 is our audio interface drifts a very small amount. But when you're recording 45 plus minutes, you have to fix that. So I do a speed change to the audio by a very, very, very small percentage. I think it's playing back at 100.012% to fix that. And there's a button on there called match pitch or like adjust for pitch. Right, because when you speed up audio past a certain amount, you'll notice it starts getting chipmunky. So, and you slow it down and it drops. To me, that felt like an extra thing to press
Starting point is 00:09:50 to mess things up, right? Like, why would I trust Adobe in fixing something in that? And it sounded fine. And then Ellis turns that off and everything works perfectly. And that was it. Wanted to tell the story here
Starting point is 00:10:04 because I tweeted about it and i had dozens of tweets of people having similar issues um with some really really wacky solutions one was to take put a blanket audio transition over all of the audio with a two frame cross crossfade on it and people said that worked and that felt like one of those super hacky dumb things that should work when it comes to video editing i'm sure if you had a video out there you've encountered something like this before there's all kinds of weird hacks that work sometimes yeah um so i just wanted to tell this story because if there is one person out there that listens to this and has this issue in the future try that checkbox if it solves that I will be happy
Starting point is 00:10:46 and will feel like I accomplished something in this world I've had some of the craziest like weird annoying bugs I remember back when we had the trash can Mac Pro had an export that and this is always the game like you get to a certain point and something breaks so this was an
Starting point is 00:11:04 export where I would get like halfway through rendering the whole thing in Final Cut Pro and then it would freeze and stop responding. And I'd be like, okay, so that means there's something somewhere in the video that is making Final Cut Pro freeze and stop responding. And one by one, I go through and I remove all the plugins and I remove all the titles and I remove things
Starting point is 00:11:21 and it still doesn't make it through without freezing and responding, stopping responding. And so I'm trying to figure out like, this is again, this is also one of those embargoed videos. So it's like, it needs to be live by tomorrow at 9am or it's yeah, not going to work. So long story short, I remember moving files from this computer to the main gear to try to edit it in Premiere, or at least take that file export it again in premiere and take that new file back into final cut pro to edit it uh so we were round tripping all kinds of stuff i remember that yeah it finally we did eventually make it work but it
Starting point is 00:11:58 was quite hacked quite hacked that sounds like yeah i've had that before where i can see where it's messing up in the export so i had to take that video clip and turn it to 99 opacity in final cut weird and then that you know you you don't notice that difference at all right and then cruise right through it like nothing ever happened i did have recently though on the mac studio um because this machine's been crushing knock wood there's no wood there's no wood um, next upload will be a little late for sure. No, it, it, uh, it got like, you know, 25% into the export and then crashed. I was like, Oh no, something's wrong with this, this project file I've been building. I opened it back up in the error message. Basically it tells me the exact timestamp of what it got to when it crashed.
Starting point is 00:12:45 I went to that, found the plugin, deleted it, did something different there and export worked perfectly. And I was like, wow, when tech works, it really works. But that sounds fantastic. You know, that was the best case error message for me. That sounds great. So, um, yeah, moral of the story here is we will never let Adam leave the studio ever again for the rest of my life. Sounds like it. Sounds like it. You're stuck here. I will chain you to that desk.
Starting point is 00:13:11 Speaking of Adam, let's do a quick trivia. We'll bring back trivia before we take an ad break here. Adam being gone meant trivia was on pause. And I was wondering if people would notice. They noticed. And y'all noticed. And I also was kind of looking forward to doing trivia. So I like how much everyone likes it because I love trivia and I never want to stop. All right, let's get it going. So the score right now, Marques has eight,
Starting point is 00:13:35 Andrew has four. Just kidding. I hate trivia. I like trivia. First question. Yeah. When was Internet Explorer first released? Year or? year or probably year year if you can get the day you'll get an extra point that would be really impressive oh yeah we don't answer we'll think about that for a minute we'll be right back. BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sports book worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only.
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Starting point is 00:15:24 a lot of EV news on this episode. A lot of it's pretty small though, and some of them were a couple new cars, new car teasers, I would call them, where we're kind of just seeing what they're going to be and what they look like, but not specs. So I just thought of a quick little fun game. I have three that just got announced. We are just going to rate them purely on aesthetics okay before we get into them are they real cars yes okay these are real cars um ones that just recently got announced um all of them have like kind of dates of when they'll actually i don't even know if these have full-on dates of when they'll be out but like that they're getting announced or fully
Starting point is 00:16:02 i feel like we have different levels of promises when it comes to electric cars. My favorite is the here's the date and here is the name, the look, the range, the spec, and like exactly what we're going to sell so that they can actually start taking your money. But then there's a level below that, which is like, we're a company, we're going to make an electric car
Starting point is 00:16:21 and it's going to look kind of like this. And that's all the details we have for now. These three cars we're going to talk about here are kind of all of them. It's a legacy manufacturer, a new EV manufacturer that already has a car out, and then a new, new EV manufacturer. So all of these could or could not be, I guess, real. But I think these three, you'll know kind of what all of these are. Aesthetics. it's real but i i think these these three you'll know kind of what all of these are aesthetics um so we're going to quickly talk about what it looks like some of the things you like about it and then give it a one out of ten rating purely aesthetics because we know almost nothing else about this
Starting point is 00:16:53 cool sounds first one chevy blazer announced it's coming out so we already know the chevy chevy has the bolt or the volt okay i always forget which one's the hybrid, which one's the EV. Volt is a hybrid. Bolt is the EV. Okay. I think. So this is an SUV, like pretty regular size SUV. Okay.
Starting point is 00:17:13 I'm looking at this picture now we've got in the dock here. There's a red Chevy Blazer. So this is an EV? EV, yes. Wow, so it's got the fake grill going on. Okay. Here's maybe a sort of a hot take on this it uh and this may or may
Starting point is 00:17:27 not mean it looks good but it kind of looks like a lamborghini urus wow look at the where's where's mock look at the front splitter like this look at the front splitter at the bottom the way they're doing this like little hexagon shape that lamborghini does it's got an aggressive look for an suv just if you just just i'm covering i refuse to agree with you on this because i do not want to get torn in the comments i already hit the no man's sky i'm covering the front wheel and everything behind the front wheel and just looking at the front grill cover the chevy logo just block everything other than the front splitter i will say you are onto something anyway um uh no i okay there's some things i like some things that uh i don't like some things i like are the uh this is notorious for new evs
Starting point is 00:18:13 headlight bar so you've got it yeah right straight across and lit this one the lit up logo is part of that i think that actually looks pretty cool i don't think the chevy logo is bad not bad uh fake grill but i think it looks okay again a little bit yours like um they've got the split two-tone thing going so the car body is red and then the roof line and the b pillar and the a pillar and the sort of like fastback design just the roof yep the roof is all black uh i kind of like that i like that too the uh the rav4 prime i think has been doing that recently. And I think it looks really nice, especially when it's a good contrasting color. This is a red paint job with a black.
Starting point is 00:18:49 Actually, it has like a black trim along the bottom as well. So it's kind of sandwiched. And it makes the car for sure feel sleeker. That's definitely intentional. And then the last thing for me is the wheels. So anytime I see a new EV, I immediately think, what are they going to do about aero? And how the wheels going to look and these to me look like normal
Starting point is 00:19:09 wheels which is a win so yeah i am always wondering about that because they just they clearly want to ship with aero wheels because that'll give them the better efficiency or efficiency but like i always think regular wheels look better so it's like do you do your marketing with regular wheels i think there's a lot of take hands that have like the non-aero wheels for the marketing but then the aero wheels are probably what they want you to get yeah and that's and it's different for everyone like the take hand is sporty so they're they're a little bit less worried about like normal buyers getting the aero wheels where if you're getting like um like any you know like a blazer or like a normal crossover
Starting point is 00:19:46 or something like that yeah more mass market you're going to want to do efficiency overlooks so you just got to sort of make something that people don't mind yeah that's efficient i will say something here i'm the chevy blazer is an suv that i really don't know much about i think this looks way better than the concept and the models we're seeing for the Chevy Silverado EV. I think that looks terrible. I haven't seen too many of those yet, but I like the Blazer. I think the Blazer looks really good. I think if the Blazer front grille was on the Silverado,
Starting point is 00:20:14 the Silverado would look awesome. I bet it has a taillight bar. Can't see the back from this picture, but I bet it has a taillight bar. I would bet that also. Alright, so 1 out of 10. Just aesthetics? Just aesthetics. For a Chevy, because I've seen some hilarious commercials
Starting point is 00:20:30 on the Zebra Corner videos. This to me is a seven. Point five. I think I can agree with that. I almost want to give it higher because I i feel like i think lowly of chevy because of the zebra corner videos and like i'm ignoring good i'm ignoring the rest of what i think about chevy and the interior and i can't see certain parts of the car and i don't know the specs or the price or the range or anything like that but if you're just looking at aesthetics
Starting point is 00:20:58 like forget the logo forget all that it's a seven and a half i think this looks i'll give it an eight out of ten there you go i think if this comes out 300 miles of range at a decent price this could be a pretty sweet car yeah all right um we are going to go to polestar three next okay um so we all know the polestar two it's like a hatchback sedan um this is their suv version so it is a little confusing because i have we have their official image and then we also have what people have rendered out as what the front of it looks like because the um official image is only profile of it yes um but they basically they also have shown off a a front kind of three-quarter shot or a front like 45-degree shot with the camo wrapping on it.
Starting point is 00:21:49 So people have made renders of that based on it. So I think we're pretty close to what it will look like. Okay. So Polestar, I actually really like a lot of what Polestar is doing and just things about the company and the car in general. So maybe I'm a little biased already but looking at this uh this silhouette the side profile i really like it it
Starting point is 00:22:11 is a uh modern slightly sporty looking uh crossover so love the lights looks like it's a tail bar and a front light bar so i'm already weak for that love that looking at the hood though it's got this weird thing going on where the hood scoops down a little bit and has like a vented area up at the front with these like extra tall headlights it's got like a like a rattlesnake feel to it where it's like the thick head that drops down a bit yeah yeah that i don't know what that's for but i like it i guess that's where i'm at i don't fair yeah that's that's where i'm at um again fastback design looks pretty good you can see a little orange seat belt in there it's got the black plastic coming up from the bottom nice wheels i. I like this one. I think I like these a lot. And with Pulsar being a company under Volvo,
Starting point is 00:23:07 I believe like I think Volvo cars are great and people really, really like them and they're reliable and everything, but they don't look quite as modern. They've gotten better, but like this feels like a more modern Volvo and which is awesome because it's EV and clearly more modern.
Starting point is 00:23:21 Yeah, the newest Volvos look pretty modern, but like they're the newest like last few years. I would compared to other car manufacturers they don't look quite as yeah quote unquote modern i'm sure that's extremely subjective but pole star has got it going on this feels like the way more modern version of like of volvo which i love i i love this i think flush door handles it looks awesome respectable looking aero cap wheels. That's a really good point. Yeah. I'm giving this a eight and a half.
Starting point is 00:23:50 I'll go nine and a half for an SUV. Like I think you have to consider it as an SUV. Like maybe this isn't going to look as nice as like. It doesn't get much better. I'll get to nine on this. Okay. I'll get to nine. I like it.
Starting point is 00:24:02 Cool. And then the last one one which is the new company and one we've talked about a little bit but our previous teaser image of this was a very very dark shadow with like a taillight so we have the delorean delorean we finally have the full okay this one is interesting so we now see it's it really depends on which it has a good side i'll put it i 100 agree with that it has a good side and it's not the front yes um so looking at the back tail lights are sick love the bars that's gonna look amazing the doors coming up look cool in that they have a light on them and that they fully open to show a front and back seat.
Starting point is 00:24:45 But the hydraulicness of it, the way they open doesn't look very good. It doesn't look good. It also doesn't fold, so you're going to smack the car next to you instead of having the folding falcon door. If I'm driving this car and coming out like this, I don't care.
Starting point is 00:25:02 Get out of my way. But I'm just thinking, think about all the other exotic car doors we see yeah the spider doors they go up right the falcon wing doors on the model x they fold so that they don't smack the car next to you this is this needs a fold it doesn't have one or you can just park in the back of the parking lot i guess yeah i mean no just if you drive this you're going to have like you're gonna have to think about that when you can't park next to another car um but i agree with you the back out of this to me is like 10 out of 10 i think it's so cool and unique and just looks so much
Starting point is 00:25:36 like the old delorean and then the front of it just feels with the doors closed too feels very plain the proportions are crazy too because it, because it's one huge door, so it's technically a two-door car, but it's a four-seater. So you're getting a massive door, and just the proportions look like a cartoon car, kind of. It's weird to not see a door, like a seam down the middle,
Starting point is 00:26:03 like a vertical seam down the middle where there would be two doors. That is very strange. This also feels like, we were talking about, middle like a vertical seam down the middle where there would be two doors that is this also feels like we were talking about is this a real car or not like there are there are no door handles as far as i can see there are no yeah i guess there are mirrors which is pretty good the thing about this though is it's based on it's based off an old car so like you can still put old things on here and it'll look fit essentially. But like you did make the front very futuristic looking. I mean, it was an old car that was supposed to look futuristic. But to me, the back looks like it could be thrown on the old DeLorean and fit well,
Starting point is 00:26:34 where the front, if you threw that on the old DeLorean, you'd be like, something is very wrong here. It does have like a Taycan charge door though. Charge door at the front. The wheels, the a the wheels the arrow wheels i am actually not a fan not a fan wheels i agree too many spokes i'm not a fan of like the limousine 40 spoke wheels they would look really good without the arrow on it i think yeah but i'm just i like less spokes maybe because it's a sports car i want that like five spokes six
Starting point is 00:27:01 spoke wheel type thing okay so if i'm combining everything we're looking at here everything we've talked about the delorean from these images i'm going to rate a five oh that's rough i was gonna say like six and a half with an asterisk that i would still immediately drive this car around and be super happy and know that everybody would be looking at here's the thing and i think that would be awesome if you drive it fast enough nobody ever sees the front of the car they just see the um flaming tire marks yeah on the ground oh yeah so you meant if you hit 88 you just disappear into another as soon as you come up behind somebody, they're like, what is that ugly car?
Starting point is 00:27:45 You pull around, you drive in front of them. They're like, nice. Very nice. Okay. Good looking car. Fair, fair. So just speed out of your mind if you buy this car. It's the only answer.
Starting point is 00:27:53 Okay, cool. So I think Polestar 3 wins here. Yep. Awesome. I like what they're doing too. I think all these look cool. I'm just like, in general, a lot of these EV cars are just looking really, really nice. And I like that a lot of cars that have been around for a while are getting these like little facelifts
Starting point is 00:28:09 that look really modern i'm curious what there's so many this controversy about this but what do you think about tesla model s silhouette model s silhouette i see two people two thoughts on this model s1 which is this is such an old looking, an old body. It's been 10 years of the same looking Model S. Why don't they radically redesign it? And the other is actually, it still looks really good after 10 years. Keep it, keep it.
Starting point is 00:28:35 Like it looks good. They've done like minor facelifts along the 10 years, but it looks the same as it did 10 years ago. I think it looks, I still think it looks good. I think there's a lot of other cars out there that look better than it. Um, I think my favorite thing about the model S though, is when it first made that jump from that terrible, like bubble reflective plastic on the front to just going to like straight Hannibal Lecter. Like the first time we really got to see
Starting point is 00:28:59 no grill on a car that was just this, this really cool new thing we've never seen and i wish more cars though were doing that rather than these fake grills i think the mach e uh gt so the sportier version of it does it really well they they do a body color nose instead of like the fake grill of the normal mach e and that to me because there's like a papaya orange one yeah it's got the like yeah the h Hannibal Lecter going on. It's good. I like that. So shout out to the Mach-E.
Starting point is 00:29:29 I think a lot of them are doing good. Yep. Tesla Model S, not my favorite in the world, but I still think it looks good and I get why they're not doing really like any big things yet. Tesla's still like pumping stuff out like crazy.
Starting point is 00:29:43 They're not, I am sure a few years down the road we'll probably see them do like more of a redesign exterior i that's an interesting question i actually don't think they will you don't think they'll ever do not not like ever but in like a few years like in the next five years or so you think i think it's going to still look the same you're right they still need to do a roadster and a cyber truck before that they've got a lot of other stuff so i think it'll look the same for okay yeah um okay what do i have next on here i have oh okay we're going to talk about recalls here
Starting point is 00:30:12 for a minute because there's a recall news headline going around right now that oh god is pretty brutal i put on my recall headline translator i have not seen this yet we're going to just talk about recalls at the end of this, but we're going to talk about the actual recall first. But I think we are both on the same page here. Yeah. My recall translator. Yeah. Okay.
Starting point is 00:30:32 So the article reads that Ford Mustang Mach-E stopped sales for a dealer defect. And it is the car could fail to start or become immobile when in motion due to a battery malfunction. That sounds terrible, right? We've all seen these headlines before, like recalls. I mean, batteries stopping while in motion sounds terrifying and potentially life-threatening. It's affecting 48,000 cars. That's almost half because Ford sold about 100,000 Mach-Es. It affects cars anywhere from 2020 to 2022.
Starting point is 00:31:08 So like, there's a very good chance you are, if you own a Mach-E, you're part of this recall. Um, good news here is, um, there's two ways to fix this. There'll be an over the air software because it's a connector that overheats. So there'll be an OTA software update within the next month or next month, I believe it is. Or if you're really scared of it, you can bring it to the dealership right now
Starting point is 00:31:29 and get it fixed. So not that bad. Yeah. But also kind of terrifying. Like if you have the Mach-E, you should be nervous about this and possibly bring it in. But this is not the thing
Starting point is 00:31:43 and what I saw here that really made me sad and made me want to talk about it is a ton of people tagging people like oh how's your death box feel or like oh your car is going to explode oh blah blah doesn't have any issues like this and this to me is like this is why i brought up the translator before it's like i think it all kind of comes from like oh these are public companies and we have to pit them against each other and like see what's going wrong with one and what's going wrong with the other. So I'll see a headline that's like Tesla or Ford recalls 50,000 cars because of a problem
Starting point is 00:32:13 where they could catch on fire. And it's like, when a layman reads that, they're like, oh, sounds like 50,000 cars are like about to catch on fire right now. Um, but I think really the way I understand this industry works is like cars are very complicated. They have a ton of different parts that come from a ton of different suppliers. And so a company like Ford will have a policy where if they make a car where they vetted all their suppliers and everything, they have a ton of different parts, but let's say the windshield wiper control controller motor the motor in the windshield wiper that actuates the windshield wipers is made by i'm just making this up sony right uh they buy a bunch of those parts from sony they build the cars with them ford finds out from sony sony goes hey for
Starting point is 00:33:01 you know how those windshield wiper motors we sold you? It turns out we've noticed that after a couple of years, like three of them had this issue where they couldn't like actuate the motor anymore and they're not strong enough. So we just want to let you know you bought a million of them. So just just a heads up. And so Ford, for their policy, will now go, OK, we've sold you all these cars. Anybody who owns this car that we've put this part in, we're going to try to fix this by doing what we can. And in many, many cases now with these new cars, it's like, we're just going to actuate, we're just going to do a software update
Starting point is 00:33:36 so that we know we can keep track of how many wipes it's done. And we can just tell you when to bring it in for service, something minor like that. But like the headline goes out, like Ford recalls a hundred thousand cars because now you can't see while driving in the rain. And it's like, that's an exaggerated version of the story, but they're doing the right thing in offering the fix the best way that they can. And that's where it's meets in the middle,
Starting point is 00:33:59 but yeah, that you'll see crazy headlines all the time about recalls. I think, um, so what you just said there, it made me want to look at how these recalls actually sort of work. So I did some very, very quick research. It's actually really, really simple. Pretty much there's the, and I need to get this acronym right, NHTSA. And then there's also, this is all for the US also. So either, there's two ways you can go about a recall. Manufacturing company notices something wrong
Starting point is 00:34:28 that they've seen in it. They can just issue the recall right away and be able to mail all the cars, the owners that are affected by this, right? Get them to bring it in. I believe they have to offer a free repair for that for life of the car.
Starting point is 00:34:41 And then, or if there are enough complaints filed to the NHTSA, they can start an investigation and then they can force the car company to issue this recall as well. This one that we're talking about right here with the Mach-E, Ford noticed this
Starting point is 00:34:57 and didn't even go to the NHTSA to get investigated. They just issued the recall because things were happening. But like you said, I think the headline issue right now is it's and maybe this is just because we're tech people and we see tech headlines more often evs seems insanely popular and i don't know if that's just because we're tech or that's also
Starting point is 00:35:17 because it's a new thing that's sweeping around and more stuff we don't know about but like headlines for any ev recall are going to explode we've seen a million of them with tesla we're seeing ones with maki now i'm sure there are going to be ones for pulsar and ionic 5 and ev6 that are coming out and rivian i'm sure i think already zach i don't know if they have a recall but his like power bed cover isn't like coming all the way in um yeah but like just to compare it to here i just looked up the toyota camry one of the most popular cars in the world right yep i looked if i had any recalls last year i found that there's a power brakes recall that affects over 200 000 cars
Starting point is 00:35:58 that they issued um where your power brakes might stop working when you're driving imagine that headline exactly it's such an easy headline. It is. But yeah, cars have recalls. Every car has dozens of recalls. I think my Impreza had four different ones that I got in the lifetime of using it. So, yeah.
Starting point is 00:36:17 It's not to say ignore recalls, but it's definitely just to say like, hey, read the headline with a little bit of a pinch of salt because you know that they're making a headline out of it yeah they they actually have a story to pay attention to and don't make it counter uh counterproductive by using that to now like pit yourself against because you're super loyal to one company don't use it it was really annoying seeing stuff like that in there uh in like twitter and youtube and everything when this came out it's because it
Starting point is 00:36:45 happens to tesla it happens to ford it's gonna happen to every single ev for probably the next 10 years yeah i feel like i see that in the that's the most like low-level twitter argument is like so much wow these cars are such low quality and someone goes what do you mean they're low quality and then someone links an article about like a recall over like cars potentially catching on fire we're like okay i'm going to read this this headline again the uh the car could fail to start or become a mobile wall in motion due to a battery malfunction but you said it was from a connector yeah like the connector could fail if it overheats at any point wall in park wall in the sun someday or wall in motion
Starting point is 00:37:22 let's pick the worst one in the headline so there you have it there you have it exactly um yeah so stop being a fanboy online pretty much and moral of the story if you do if you do get a recall maybe actually check it out though because it could be important yeah if your car gets a recall my car has gotten a few recalls and i just went in and got service because i got a new tire and they just like fixed a bunch of stuff and updated this firmware and all that. So excited for over the air updates. That's something I have not experienced yet. And that's so cool that you could get a recall and then just get an update and probably never even know you had the recall and it just fixes itself.
Starting point is 00:37:58 Huge win. That's really cool. All right. Let's do a, let's take a quick ad break, but first we should do another trivia question. Trivia question number two, webOS was the first mobile operating system to feature multitasking. What company wrote it? Easy. Shout out to Dieter Braun. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. You'll get four pieces of delicious Popeye's signature chicken, four tasty chicken tenders, four regular sides, and everybody's favorite, four buttermilk biscuits. Hurry up, though. Like the holiday season, Popeye's $25 festive family box deal will be over before you know it. Love that chicken from Popeye's.
Starting point is 00:39:02 Support for the show today comes from NetSuite. Anxious about where the economy is headed? You're not alone. If you ask nine experts, you're likely to get 10 different answers. So unless you're a fortune teller and it's perfectly okay that you're not, nobody can say for certain. So that makes it tricky to future-proof your business
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Starting point is 00:39:35 its next move you can close the books in days not weeks and keep your focus forward on what's coming next plus net suite has compiled insights about how ai and machine learning may affect your business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform, netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, welcome back. I just want to open this final little segment with a horrifying statement that I could not afford to live alone with. So I'm making you all live with it too. In eight years, 90s babies start turning 40 years old.
Starting point is 00:40:13 Do you have to, why are you bringing that up now? It's real. It's real. And I just was reminded of it because I got a Twitter notification that somebody was mad at me for tweeting it. And so now I'm just sharing love.
Starting point is 00:40:24 In eight years 90s babies start turning 40. So get up. I'll be 32 next week. It's not so bad. It's not so bad. They say that's your prime right? Like 27 to 33 or something? Like your prime period. So now you're even saying I'm at the end of
Starting point is 00:40:39 my prime. Well no no no that's the window. You're just making it so much worse. I'm not saying the window's closing I'm saying you're in you're definitely saying it's you're basically like you're in that last foot out the door you're in the middle of the window you're getting fired from the podcast because i'm saying if you were turning 35 i'd be like you're out of the prime well then i'm gonna run for president so true you enter a new prime new prime there anyway um we were gonna i was gonna talk about actually this new this this headline i saw which is kind of interesting it's a kelly blue book uh can i call it a study it was just a
Starting point is 00:41:11 headline so actually no it's kind of interesting what they do they do a survey that they also compare with basically consumer shopping um statistics and that's how they form this opinion. So I think it's actually a pretty cool, it obviously is still a survey ran by a private company so we always have to take that with a grain of salt but I still found it very interesting. And they do have a good amount of data so I found it interesting that they compiled this all. Basically it all
Starting point is 00:41:38 accumulated in the headline that one in four shoppers right now is considering a hybrid or electric car and then there are certain requirements that people have for which one they're considering buying. Yeah. I think the first thing we should talk about here is why we think, I think there's a, right now, two huge reasons as to why people are considering hybrid or EV. Gas price is insane right now. I was just hanging out with my family in Raleigh
Starting point is 00:42:05 and they're like, yeah, gas is crazy. It's up to like 450 and premium is actually over five. And I was like, yeah, actually up in Jersey, everything is over five. We're like just over five as the standard now. I see a lot of 509 a gallon for a regular and I see a lot of 550 for premium. But gallon for a regular and I see a lot of $5.50 for premium.
Starting point is 00:42:26 But guess what? I was in Toronto not that long ago. Yeah. And it was like $2 a liter, something like that, which I don't know, sounded cheap to me, but a liter is a fourth of a gallon. So it's like $8 a gallon in Canada right now. I actually think surprisingly in the U.S. we're one of the lower gas prices in the world. There are some crazy, crazy prices out there, but it still sucks for everyone when you're used to something and it's really bubbled in the last couple of months. I know I was really close to spending the extra money on like a RAV4 Prime instead of my Forester. And right now I'm severely regretting that decision. So Kelley Blue Book, by the way, just in case you don't know,
Starting point is 00:43:06 it's a website where you can sort of look to buy and sell cars. And because they have so much data, they're able to offer so much value for like figuring out what the value, this is kind of what they famously do is they can pin the value of a car at any point. So what's the Kelley Blue Book value of a car? That's what they're really good at.
Starting point is 00:43:23 But they have so much data. If you've been looking to like sell a used car, you've probably went on Kelley Blue Book value of a car? That's what they're really good at. But they have so much data. If you've been looking to sell a used car, you've probably went on Kelly Blue Book to see approximately what the value starting point is. Yeah. So, okay. So top 10 most considered electrified vehicles. Number 10, Tesla Model S.
Starting point is 00:43:37 So that's a premium big four-door sedan. Number nine, Ford Mustang Mach-E. So that's over Model S. And I see those all the time everywhere. I see a lot of them. And it's alsoE. So that's over Model S. And I see those all the time everywhere. I see a lot of them. And it's also, it's cheaper than the Model S. Like automatically, there's no surprise that's going to be a little higher than that. Yeah. Number eight, Toyota Camry Hybrid. I've owned a Camry Hybrid. I can vouch for a lot of people having those on the road. I mean, I think the Camry might be the most popular sedan in the U.S. right now. Top three for sure. Number seven,
Starting point is 00:44:07 Ford F-150 Lightning. So of course, F-150 is very popular. That to me says not just a lot of pickup truck buyers, but a lot of people in general are considering an F-150 Lightning. Lots of pre-orders in already. Great. Number six, the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. So the highlander is a what is that a it's a larger suv right so the big one number five honda crv hybrid i'm very familiar with the crv my parents have had one for a while a very reliable little crossover type vehicle another insanely popular i think top 10 most sold vehicle in the u.s probably yep so now we get to the top four. Number four, Tesla Model Y. Number three, Tesla Model 3. So now they're like, okay, what's the top two? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:44:50 Two surprises me. Number two surprised me also. Number two, Ford Maverick Hybrid. So the Maverick, if you don't know, is a pickup truck. And it's a little smaller, but the pickup truck hybrid version is apparently very frequently considered. Makes sense.
Starting point is 00:45:05 There are a lot of people who are really into this truck. And I do think it is really cool. I really dig it. It's very small. It's even smaller than a Rivian, kind of similar to the Hyundai Santa Cruz, I believe it's called. And yeah, it's a little hybrid car. And apparently it's not easy to order one because they get sold out pretty quickly. It's pretty new, yeah.
Starting point is 00:45:25 But I do see them quite a bit on the road, which is interesting. But then number one is the Toyota RAV4 Prime. That is the most... It just says hybrid. There are two different ones. So I don't know if it's considering all of them as hybrid. The Prime is the plug-in hybrid
Starting point is 00:45:43 where you can get like 50 miles of pure electric. And then there's just a regular hybrid version as hybrid. The Prime is the plug-in hybrid where you can get like 50 miles of pure just electric. And then there's just a regular hybrid version as well that's not plug-in. So the RAV4 hybrid. Yeah. So yeah, $30,000 to $40,000
Starting point is 00:45:53 hybrid crossover, larger type vehicle for a lot of people not in the US. But yeah, that is the number one most considered electric vehicle for a lot of new buyers.
Starting point is 00:46:03 One of those things where if you ask me that question i wouldn't have guessed it but when you see it you're like it makes sense the rav4 i think is like the most popular suv in the u.s it's probably one of the most popular vehicles i think it's like right after the first couple trucks and the camry it might even be over like the camry or their corolla i think it's top 10 it's way up pretty high so yeah i i'm kind of i guess i'm surprised now seeing this list that the camry hybrid isn't higher uh yeah i could see that i'm the crv and the rav4 are kind of the same thing if you think about it so i get why both of those are there the highlander hybrids pretty surprising
Starting point is 00:46:42 but i guess you need one of the larger SUVs to be on here and a hybrid version of that's good. Um, F one fifties lightning is funny because this is people who consider it. And like, if you are considering that one 50 right now, you're not going to have it for like three years because they have so many pre-orders in there. Um, surprised to not see Rivian in here. Not all that surprised about Lucid because that's super expensive. I guess so is Rivian, but like... So seeing this list now, the only pure electrics on here are Teslas.
Starting point is 00:47:11 And I think that's, well, other than the F-150 Lightning. And I don't think that's very surprising to me as far as like when people consider actually buying a car, they're like, okay, where can I charge it? How am I going to, you know, the road trips? That's a really good point. So the Rivian is really cool to us tech people. Kind of like a ROG phone is really cool to us tech people.
Starting point is 00:47:31 But then how many of them are cross-shopping it for real? So, but then when you think about it like that, then I am just all the more impressed to see Model 3 and Model Y that high up the list because they are still expensive cars. And like, they are still fully electric, now competing with hybrids that have been around for a while so if you're putting them in the same category that's super impressive they're everywhere they are actually um funny enough they have a couple other things in this article kind of uh comparing putting these in like they're they split it up into luxury and into non-luxury. So RAV4 Prime was the number one in non-luxury
Starting point is 00:48:07 and just altogether. But in just EV, Model 3 and Model Y were the most often shopped. And they were still in top five of just luxury vehicles, whether it was EV or not. So that's still crazy. I mean, those two cars are just wildly, wildly popular in the US.
Starting point is 00:48:23 Luxury is just a price bracket. I believe so. Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. Yeah. No, I'm seeing them everywhere. So shout out to the RAV4 hybrid for being considered by most people buying something new. So this whole list is pretty much, what do we see? We have Tesla, Ford, toyota and then one honda if all of us had to guess what the next car in this group would be what would your guess be like number 11 the no not the number 11 the
Starting point is 00:48:54 next company that would break top 10 in most considered electrified vehicle so hybrids count as well right the thing is toyota's dominating hybrids right now so like they're got like i don't know if it's going to be i feel like it would be an ev yeah i mean so i'm seeing a lot more i'm thinking about hyundai right now because i see a lot more ionics on the road i see i've seen your electric and they look really good and people seem to like them but they're definitely still like a once in a while spot for me i see one like once every two days okay something like that um i don't think rivian has enough volume going down the list in my head let me go with yeah let's go with hyundai i think that's what i would say i see ionics are probably the most common thing I see after Teslas and Mach-Es.
Starting point is 00:49:45 Oh, yeah. Let's do that list. Actually, okay. Top five EVs that you see the most often. Okay. So actually, right where I'm living right now, like I drive down this parkway and then I get on 95 and I always see a lot of EVs and I notice more and more the non-Teslas. So in order, I see the most Model 3s for sure.
Starting point is 00:50:04 Okay. By far number one. Then I think it's Model Y slightly ahead of Mach-E. Okay. So I see Model 3 and Model Y and then Ford Mustang Mach-E. Then I think I see Model S. Then I think I see... That's a good point. I don't see a lot of x's anymore so there's a couple x's and i'm thinking i see a lot of thai cans and i'm not sure which i see more of it might be thai can it might be thai can i see it because there's a lot of panameras and i see i they kind of look similar from yeah i feel like i see some thai cans and i'm not sure but there's a decent amount of taikans then i see like the occasional ionic and the occasional ev6 and the rare rivian and that's about it i saw my first ev6 today
Starting point is 00:50:55 yeah i was very excited about it i've seen maybe three lucids i think i still haven't seen one one rivian but ionic is ionic is getting up there i would go it's three then why i see a lot of wise and then a decent gap to maki and then a huge gap to like the rest yeah so there well yes is probably in there as well but still like there's a very big gap between tesla ford into anything else but i that Ioniq gap is going to close very fast. I really think by the end of the year, we'll be seeing Ioniqs like we're seeing Mach-Es right now. As long as they're producing fast enough. Right. I like that.
Starting point is 00:51:34 So yeah, Hyundai is going to be in this list very shortly. Or it could be F-150 Lightnings if they play their cards right. It could. Did I tell you? I was trying to look up to see if they're actually shipping and I found a F-150 lightning forum.com and it is wonderful it is just there's actually quite a few out there there's a lot of people posting pictures of them quite a few i mean it's a whole forum of people and it has a whole section of like showing off pictures so like people who have them or just pictures at dealers so like they're
Starting point is 00:52:05 out there you can get them out yeah um it's just also just wild going on a forum in 2022 the the nostalgia really rolled in about how how terrible an experience that used to be and how much more i like reddit and discord and stuff like and twitter i found found myself seeing F-150s on the road and wondering if they were a Lightning or not, and looking for the badge. Oh, the badge. I was going to say, do you speed in front of it for the light bar?
Starting point is 00:52:32 Well, I didn't want to like... You can only get... If you can get close enough to see the badge, that's the easiest way to tell. If you see the light bar, yeah, it's a Lightning. But if you see the badge, it could also be a Lightning without the light bar. But I haven't seen any yet either. No loose ends for for me i've yet to see a lightning in the wild but i do think they're
Starting point is 00:52:49 trickling out there we saw one rivian the other day on the way home yeah i think i'm at like six total rivian spottings in the wild ever that's more than i would have thought honestly yeah but i think they're they are out there weird i love it. Love seeing more. Well, that's probably a good place to end it for the Waveform EV episode of the podcast. Waveform podcast. Let's wrap it up by figuring out what the answers were to our trivia questions. Yes, we have a funny behind-the-scenes story
Starting point is 00:53:18 for one as well. I don't know what you're talking about. So the first question was, when was Internet Explorer first released? You get one point for the year. Another point if you can get the day. You should get a lot of points. Yeah, I'll give you three points if you get the day.
Starting point is 00:53:36 If you get the day on the nose, that'd be awesome. I am only going by, I think, the video that I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to replay it in my head, which was showing market share. And I think Internet Explorer popped out at 0% around 1997. So I'm going to go with 1997. I'm going to go to 95 because I'm pretty sure I had written down 27 years old. So if my math is correct, which,'s be real not very confident in math 27 okay
Starting point is 00:54:08 i mean it's also 20 yeah could be the year before potentially okay but that's only guys in terms of day i mean total shot in the dark here december 3rd march 17th december 3rd in the dark here, December 3rd. March 17th. December 3rd. I don't know. August 16th. Totally in the middle of our days. 1995.
Starting point is 00:54:33 Let's go. You got the year. Yeah, I got the year. I'll take that. Well done. All right. Next question. WebOS was the first mobile operating system
Starting point is 00:54:42 to feature multitasking. What company wrote it? So, listeners, you didn't hear this. We were recording. We could just play it. We could just play it. Like, you'll hear it. You won't see it, but you'll hear.
Starting point is 00:54:58 The answer is Palm. And it was funny because I shouted out Dieter because he likes to bring up Palm and their multitasking UI all the time. And then, you know, we sort of sit back in the chairs like, ah, yeah, old Palm OS. I was sweating because I had no idea what it was.
Starting point is 00:55:14 Yeah, and then we gave it away so Andrew knows the answer now. I do. To be fair and embarrassingly enough, I was going to guess Apple because just like they name everything something OS and that sounded very Apple OS. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:55:26 Well, they called it WebOS. It was WebOS. So I was just like, I hear iPad OS, iOS OS. They were definitely inspired by WebOS. Okay. Well, there you go. I was wrong. Well, final scores.
Starting point is 00:55:37 Marques has eight, Andrew five. No, Marques has nine. Yeah, Marques has nine. Nine to five. Andrew five. Nine to five. Nine to five. Nine to five Apple. Hopefully our Twitter doesn't get deleted because we're not 13.
Starting point is 00:55:50 So thanks for watching nine to five waveform. This has been a pleasure. Nine to five EV. We're basically nine to five EV at this point. That doesn't exist yet. Nine to five EV. I'm taking that Twitter handle. That's got to be a Twitter handle for sure.
Starting point is 00:56:04 Anyway, holler at us on Twitter for real at waveform. And yeah, we'll catch you guys next week. See you later. Peace. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. We are partnered with Vox Media and our intro after music was created by Vain. So. Nailed it. Thank you.

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