Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 3 & Z Flip 3 Deep Dive!

Episode Date: August 13, 2021

This week, Marques and Andrew discuss whether the iPhone 13 will be called the 12s or 14 due to an age-old American superstition. Then, Andrew has a pretty hot take on the new HP Chrome-based desktop. Moving on from there, the majority of today's episode is an in-depth discussion between Marques and Andrew about the newly-released Samsung Z Fold 3 and Z Flip 3. Smartphone season has begun! Links: To check out Unbounce, go to: https://unbounce.com/waveform/ Subscribe to the pod & share with friends: http://bit.ly/WaveformMKBHD Subscribe to the pod on YouTube for full videos: https://bit.ly/WVFRMPodcastYouTube https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/AdamLukas17 https://twitter.com/DurvidImel https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC HP Chrome AiO: https://bit.ly/3fW5Eku Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And in today's episode, we're talking, well, we just got Samsung's Unpacked event this week, so we're going to talk a lot about my real thoughts on the Z Fold 3 and the Z Flip 3. But we also have a couple other things that we're going to just dive into quickly beforehand before we get absolutely lost in the weeds of all those new folding flippy phones um but first this morning we had a little iphone thing come up yeah i was like a little confused because you just you like turned to me and went do you really think they're gonna skip iphone 13 because it's unlucky and i was just like that was way too nonchalant. You can't just say that to me.

Who wants to skip it? Where do these rumors come from? I've only ever heard the term iPhone 13. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess it could be 12S is the other option. And the logic is that some other smartphone companies in the past have skipped certain numbers for various reasons. OnePlus and 4. OnePlus and notably a bunch of Chinese companies avoid the past have skipped certain numbers for various reasons one plus and four one plus and notably a bunch of chinese companies avoid the number four because the translated number four

is like sounds like the word for death or something like that and it's it's not just unlucky but they just avoid that in like all press and naming of things in those countries so cool great uh but also like people skip numbers all the time like sam Samsung went Galaxy S1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 20, 21. So I mean, Apple has skipped nine. They just went straight from, they did eight and 10X, whatever you want to call it. I don't know. I have a couple of things you've mentioned before that iOS has a 13. So clearly Apple isn't that worried about this.

Yeah, 13, by the way, for those unfamiliar, is an unlucky number in the U.S. anyway. It's sort of a mild superstition type thing. 13 is unlucky. Oh, okay, whatever. But, yeah, there are other Apple products with the number 13 already in the name. I noted that none of them are hardware products.

We have iOS 13. I think Joannestern also pointed out on Twitter 13 already in the name i noted that none of them are hardware products yeah we have ios 13 uh i think joanna stern also pointed out on twitter we have a 13 inch macbook pro uh i would argue that was not quite as but like yeah even still even though it's not hardware like software being named 13 if they were really that superstitious about it they would skip it yeah um 12s also doesn't solve the problem because there would still be a 13. When we saw the 6S, we still saw a 7, so it's still going to get to 13, so it doesn't really matter.

And while I didn't really hear this rumor at all, there was an gadget article that stated nobody's expecting it to be called the iPhone 13 for obvious reasons. I thought that felt really broad. I don i thought that maybe that was sarcasm really broad i i don't know we need a sarcasm like a sarcasm font or something exactly um but like i guess my argument would just be if we want to go a little different route here i think the new iphone should be called the 12s and you think that because of the logical reason which is it is a small upgrade

from the 12 it is a small upgrade with the 12. It is a small upgrade with what we're assuming is all the same design language. So I know there was argument that the 11 should be called the 11 S, but I do think there was enough of a design difference to where you held, I mean, flat edges, sure. But I do think they looked pretty different. Like there are two that you can very easily and distinguishably tell the difference when you're holding them or see them in public at least without a case on very different whereas this if we're assuming it's going to keep i mean if it looks like the models that we got flat edges the cameras are ever so slightly different but other than that if the notch maybe the notch changes a little bit i think we're not introducing anything too new that we know of yet.

12S would make perfect sense. Yeah, I mean, at this point, the difference in designs versus iPhones is always pretty subtle. And I've noticed Apple, I mean, everyone's noticed this, but Apple always has something on the outside of the phone to make it visibly identifiable as the new iPhone.

Like when you saw the iPhone 10, obviously you had that new form factor and the notch, but then when you had the iPhone 11 or 10 S was the same body. Yeah. So there was no outside difference. When you got to 11, the camera bump became that thing. Yep. Exactly. Everyone could see the camera bump. When you got to 12, the flat sides became that thing. It was a slightly new design. Yeah. So if we're expecting iPhone 12 S or 13 or whatever the next one is to be the same design then your logic makes sense but I think they're just going to straight up stop doing that adjustment and they're just going to start doing number number number iPhone 12 13 14 15 and the s is done they're going to do an sc

probably still but they're going to do a pro and a pro max and all that stuff every year i think that they should do that because 12s pro max is too weird i i mean that's the logic yeah no i don't can't argue with you there i think it should be the best way because apple we've always commended as being one of the like the best naming scheme because it's so simple and adding s especially when you also have se feels confusing to the average person so you should just know the next number up is the newest one yeah like that's all you need to know s doesn't mean small s doesn't mean like side grader or i don't know it's just like the new one is the next number that's all it is and i i don't think they skip 13 at all i don't know if that's a hot team but i really i would bet money against that.

Yeah, I think it's the 13. We had some people saying maybe it would be just the new iPhone or something like that. What if it's XIII? Is that Roman numeral? For 13, yeah. Yeah, right. That would be, and then it would be XIV for 14.

But the thing about just calling it the new iPhone, if I could go back to that, it could work, because in the iPad world, that's also what they do it's the ipad pro and if you ever want to refer to it specifically you can by year the site like generation the newest ipad pro the 2021 ipad pro versus the last gen maybe you refer to it by the chip you have the m1 ipad pro versus the a14 by ipad pro nobody really says these things out loud, but usually it's just the newest iPad Pro. And iPhone could live in that world where it's just the newest iPhone,

the 2021 iPhone, the 2022 iPhone. But the reason I don't think they do that is because the naming structure of the iPhone is a little bit too iconic to just drop that entirely. Yeah, I think you change phones a little more often than you do MacBooks, tablets, stuff like that. So like especially in a resale market where phones are resold so easily, it just makes the resale market much easier to know what you're getting. Imagine like going on eBay and looking for the iPhone 10, except that it was just called like the iPhone 20.

From the year. Yeah, exactly. Like that just makes it so much harder. Yeah. That's probably about all there is to say about that. It's iPhone coming up in September. If it's not delayed, we're expecting to see that pretty soon.

That being said, I don't, I think it should be called 12S. I think it will be, if I put money on it, it would be 13. Right, right. Just from what I expect from Apple.

I have a kind of new one that got released, a new article, new product that got released this morning or announced this morning. I saw you like firing away at your keyboard over this and I have no idea what you're talking about, but it has something to do with Chrome OS. So fill me in. I'll go in here.

This was something Adam sent us this morning and at first I was like, neat. And then I read it and I was like, I actually find this wildly interesting. read it and I was like I actually find this wildly interesting and like this I think is is really really cool and it's I kind of have a hot take on it which I think what makes it that neat but I'll explain it a little bit more here um so HP is creating a Chrome OS desktop they're calling it the Chrome AIO desktop which means all-in-one um I put a picture here I a picture here. I'm going to try and explain it.

Tell me if you think this sounds nice. Imagine the first Google Home as a cone, and then on top of that is almost like an iPad, so a screen. So we have essentially imagine an all-in-one desktop where the base is like a fabric-covered cone speaker, and then there is a large screen tablet-looking thing on top. Oh, it rotates.

It rotates. Portrait to landscape. And it has a webcam, and it also has a wireless keyboard and mouse. So this is a Chrome OS-based desktop. It is... Real quick, I'm going to go over specs, but I think I just have, like...

I'm just really interested in this, because I think Chrome OS and Chromebooks in general are super interesting and like kind of revolutionary in a weird way. So it is 21.5 inch 1080 IPS touchscreen that rotates from landscape to portrait. We mentioned that. You can either get a dual core Pentium Gold or a Core i3, 16 gigs of user expandable RAM and an SSD up to 256 now let's just remember specs on chrome os and like chromebooks in general are pretty low because they don't take a lot of

computing power if you're using them it's generally all web-based stuff yes um and like apps because it uses the play store so but okay so i i just want to look at the price real quick yeah six hundred dollars so six hundred dollars for a desktop with a 21 inch 1080p touchscreen is like kind of nice solid um you said pentium gold dual core pentium gold or uh core i3 is definitely on the lower end but then 16 gigs and a 256 gig ssd is on the higher end so okay 16 gigs is on the lower end, but then 16 gigs and a 256 gig SSD is on the higher end. So, okay. 16 gigs is on the higher end, 256 SSD is definitely, I would call that lower end.

SSD, if it was like NVMe, or actually it just listed SSD. I don't know what. I guess hard drives should be gone. Hard drives, I shouldn't give you credit for not using hard drives. Yeah, don't give credit for hard drives. All right, so I'm with you so far.

I think I'm with you so far. Chrome OS only, so it's gonna have auto rotate but obviously it's just chrome so you're gonna be using chrome you need as much ram as you can get so yeah lots of lots of ram for chrome os i think i'm with you so like in my eyes chromebooks are pretty amazing because so many people who get a laptop are only using it for like web browsing, watching YouTube. If they're doing schoolwork, they're doing it in Google Docs, answering emails. Like almost everyone who comes to me that I know isn't a big tech person

that asks for a laptop recommendation, I almost always just suggest a Chromebook because they're 300 bucks usually. They'll last a decent amount of time, maybe not as long as a regular laptop, but it's also $300. It's like a third of the price of a macbook it's definitely been the best part for me about recommending a chromebook it's if i can ask you what programs you need to use and you answer that question in websites i can give you a chrome chromebook you're gonna go gmail

you're gonna go you know google search youtube and netflix and all these things it's like oh great yeah you can definitely use a chromebook. Here's something half the price of what you thought you're going to have to pay. Exactly. I bought Claire one at Costco years ago and it's still running and it's, she still uses it every day. Um, so here's my kind of hot take on this. Um, okay. All right. I think this might make a lot of people mad, which is kind of why it's a hot take, but just hear me out here. Okay. I think this pulls off the category the newest iMacs tried to get into better than the newest iMacs. So like, let's think about how Apple

sold the latest iMacs, right? We did those bright colors. They were an all-in-one stand with their screen. They sold this as, this is a computer we want you to put as a family computer in the common areas of your house, your living room, your kitchen, your family room, stuff like that for the family to use. Most likely, generally web-based stuff, watching YouTube videos. They want it in the kitchen, so you might watch cooking videos or pull up recipes or be able to FaceTime with someone.

watch uh cooking videos or pull up recipes or be able to facetime with someone yep um but all of that was in a uh you know that doesn't have touchscreen i mean sure the specs on the the iMac are way better than this it runs apple all that but i don't think that's all needed for the thing it's trying to sell it as this is a good looking it looks good it looks like it could run for like in your family room, whatever. It's not sticking out like a sore thumb, like a big desktop tower is. It has touchscreen and rotate. So it's easy for video calls or pulling up long recipes or something like that in your kitchen. It has a wireless keyboard and mouse. Nice and easy. It looks like it has a speaker on the base. To me, this looks like an easier and most of all, way cheaper.

I'd much rather pay $600 to put this in my kitchen and be like a dedicated, I'm in the kitchen, I'm using it to FaceTime, not FaceTime, video call. You could FaceTime. Sure, yeah. You could FaceTime. Video call, I'm using it for recipes. I'm using it to just like watch videos or something like that while i'm in my kitchen this looks like it pulls that off better than the imac you know what you you swayed me you

sold me i think i buy it the only interesting thing yeah one more argument okay it also uses android apps via the play store so this is a way better thing for smart home control in your living room in your kitchen stuff like that you. You can download all, I mean, it obviously has Google assistant and you can download all your different smart home control apps in it. So now you have a rotating or whatever touchscreen in your living room, in your kitchen that you're now controlling your lights, you're controlling your nest, you're controlling all your general smart home stuff through that, looking at your nest cameras and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. it's funny. I remember reviewing the iMac and thinking like,

oh, Apple is very, very almost hell-bent on making sure we understand that this is not just a normal computer. It's supposed to be your family room, everyday, multipurpose, friendly computer. And I actually like the way this one looks better, I think. It's got the fabric on the stand stand then it's got black bezels and it it actually rotates which is really interesting i don't know i don't know exactly what i would rotate my desktop to portrait for all the time i think the fact that you can do it is cool in some of those scenarios like say a recipe for example now i'm getting more screen real estate because a recipe doesn't really benefit from

lengthwise real estate. But if you have a list of ingredients, you are benefiting there. Or some people even like it better for like video calls. Yeah. Sometimes portrait is a little different, especially if you're video calling someone on a phone, it's just going to,

that's going to be the standard aspect ratio or whatever that they're probably using anyways. So it fits better. The one thing I would still give the advantage to Apple apple for and this is kind of something they continually do anyway in all of their budget products is it's overpowered to the point where it's just going to be way more future-proof than anything else in his class now the iMac is still a thousand dollars it's still more expensive than this but if i were to bet which one is going to get software updates and run smoothly for longer, it's definitely the iMac. Kind of the same way the iPhone SE is like an impressive chip in an older body, but it's going to get software updates and run smoothly probably

just as long, if not longer than any other Android phone in its price category. So it's kind of about what you want, but I buy your hot take. That's much better than my hot take with Fahrenheit last time. So I think it's a good one. I will say my one con I put on here is generally be, and this is anecdotal evidence, but Chromebooks I thought don't have as long of a lifetime, especially compared to Apple products. So I definitely agree with you, and I think we all agree. I'm not trying to say this is more powerful than an iMac. I think generally the iMac for a sit-down computer blows us out of the water but the fact that it adds a rotating

screen and touch screen makes it seem like more of a home almost not even a computer it's like bridging its gap into just like being part of your space at home better than the imac does the imac is still a computer and you have to use it as a computer. Yep. It's Mac OS. Do you, in a, in a family room computer is a touchscreen the move? So I see it as that when I think of it as like, so the kitchen scenario works the best here because a lot of times in a kid, like when I think about iMac talking, saying, put it in your kitchen, like you still have a keyboard and a mouse. I can't imagine having like stuff out on my countertop, chopping and measuring and washing stuff off while also using a keyboard and mouse there. That gets pushed away.

I have my touchscreen. I can scroll through everything. Yes, but now your hands are covered in stuff that you were chopping. Fair, but we all use our phones doing that anyways. Yeah. I'm not that you were chopping. Fair, but we all use our phones doing that anyways. Yeah. I'm not that worried about that. And then when it's in the living room, I don't personally have a computer in my living room.

I haven't. I mean, growing up, I had one. I feel it's crazy now that everyone has computers on their own when they're children. We generally used to have them in the family room where we couldn't get in trouble on them. But having in a family room and still having the ability to control your music or control your smart home stuff by just like walking past the desks and pressing a couple buttons on the screen. That does feel like it integrates a tad better than an iMac.

Makes sense. I like it. Well, I'm going to keep an eye out for it. I don't know that we're going to end up getting one, but I kind of like that there are Chrome OS desktops out there now. I'm really pumped for it actually. Terrible, terrible terrible name absolutely awful name uh chrome aio is that how you say it chrome yeah i'm i'm guessing it's literally just the letters aio aio aio aio aio not gonna say it out loud yeah but that's uh that's it for the Chrome OS desktop from HP. Let's take a quick break.

We got a lot to talk about with flip and fold and all the stuff with Samsung Unpacked this year. So be right back. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started.

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All right, welcome back. Samsung has had their unpacked event where it kind of kicks off smartphone season for us usually around this time of year because I feel like the floodgates have just began to open. We're about to get a bunch of phones in August, even more in September, even more in October. But it's the Samsung event. Two folding phones.

Also two watches. Also some Galaxy Buds 2. Galaxy Buds 2, pretty small update, but they do have ANC and they're're $150, and they're very smooth. They look like Easter candy. They're extremely smooth, yeah. Or at least the purple ones. And then they got two watches, sort of a classic version and a modern version of a similar spec with the new software.

But I think we're just going to talk about the phones for right now because there are plenty of thoughts on these two. So which one do you want to start with? We have the Fold 3 and we have the Flip 3. Let's just start with Fold. Okay. Fold 3. Fold 3. All right.

So Fold 3 looks a lot like the Fold 2. We've done, by the way, video hands-on of both of them are already up by the time you see this, and we've got the phones in hand. But, yeah, it looks very similar to the Fold 2. But there's a bunch of really interesting choices that they made new specs is not a surprise snapdragon 888 12 gigs of ram and all the specs but uh a couple things they changed on the outside number one you've got a almost the

same outside cover screen but it's 120 hertz that is nice i remember complaining and being a little bit jarred by switching back and forth between 60 and 120 that was the biggest thing is that it wasn't continuous between the phone like it wasn't fluid between them they made that majestic update on the inside and the outside was still 60 so now it's 120 and i really liked using it felt like a normal phone obviously it's still a big candy bar shape but that's a good upgrade didn't you say it's also like 18 pixels larger than last year yeah it is it is a weird it is uh i want to pull up let me pull up the exact number because it is kind of funny technically we do have a different resolution hold on it was like a low

enough number to the point where i don't know where where it could have gained those pixels i think it's maybe literally just like rounding of the corners. It was either rounding of corners or my guess was like the hole punch. It's the same hole punch. I mean, okay, here's the numbers. Fold 2, cover screen, 6.2 inches, 2260 by 816. Fold 3, 6.2 inches, 2268, 832. So the pixels per inch went from 386 to 387.

It's like 32 more pixels, right? 16 and 16. No, 8 and 16. Eight pixels taller and about a dozen pixels wider. Wow, yeah. That's it. Like 20 pixels. So yeah, basically the same size.

6.2 inch covers. I want to know those exact new pixels we got yeah i'm not sure where they came from but there they are um i really like the new hinge is much better it's a strengthened solid aluminum now um i think they call it armored aluminum i'm not gonna give them too much credit for it it's metal yeah thanks but the phone is now ipx8 water resistant i don't know about you but i thought this was really cool i thought that was a big deal but it's not exactly that's exactly how i felt when you explained it to me thank you okay so it's ipx8 not ip68 so immediately like wow amazing water resistance that's crazy usually

these these folding phones were also concerned about like don't breathe on it too hard and suddenly you can dip it underwater and it's fine. But IPX8 means the eight, the eight, if you just break down what IPX8 means, the eight is the water resistance part. The X is for dust resistance. They have not tested or certified the dust resistance. So real quick, is that true in all phones with IP ratings? The first number is dust, the second number is water?

Okay, yeah, that was a very helpful thing that I did not know about, but the video shows shows it's a little harder to say for audio listeners but yeah right ipx is the first quote-unquote number it is x because it is not rated and a is the rating for water because it's the second number so you see a lot of like headphones are like ipx5 that's just because it's a lower level of water resistance ipx88 means you can literally submerge it or spray water on it from any angle, and it'll survive, so that's great. But the Nemesis- Sam's sweating hearing us talking about that.

You already know some YouTube channel is gonna put it underwater, and it's gonna see how long before it turns off, and I get it. I'll watch it. I think that's cool. But yeah, the thing that's been damaging folding phones and giving them the bad reputation is the dust.

And David and I were talking about this. We're like, well, if it was gonna be fully airtight, they would have rated it for dust resistance. They would have tried to prevent that. So clearly, I think, you know, obviously them paying and getting it certified makes me want to be happier about its durability, but I'm not gonna go out on a limb and say these phones are a next level of durability

versus previous folding phones i just think the hinge is that much more airtight that they can finally certify it but still be careful with it it is really interesting that what like somehow water can't get in but dust potentially could get in? Dust can get in finer. Thinking about that? Fine dust, like really fine particles. I mean, and like you said, dust has, it sounds weird to say dust is the enemy of folding phones, but like, do you remember when those first ones came out?

So many of the problems that happened were somebody would just see like a little bump in their screen and wonder what is that? Something got through the hinge underneath the screen and then that screen was generally broken fairly quickly after that. Yeah, it's the kiss of death. It's just a little bit of dust, that's all it takes.

It just made me think of Zach's video where he ground up a bunch of rocks. Oh no, that was brutal. Put it in the phone. That was absolutely brutal. That was rough, it was never gonna survive that. But you do have IPX8 now, 120 hertz on the outside. What else?

New camera bump on the back is a little bit smaller, but it is a refreshed triple camera setup. Yeah, looks nice. Good to see. We'll test it, of course, for the full review. Slightly thinner, two millimeters thinner, and about 10 grams lighter for the whole phone. It still, like, feels the same to my hands.

Like, it's a nice, like, solid, stiff hinge, and all that is great. But that does mean it has a slightly smaller battery 4400 milliamp hours to 4500 and i mentioned that because i'm i'm curious what the battery life's going to be i am very interested as well now you have 120 hertz on the outside so we'll see what the battery life is like and we'll test that but 4400 but i think the most interesting change is on the inside i think that's a safe that's a safe statement i mean it's the fold it's literally a phone based around the the inside yeah

so it's a cold take uh so the inside the crease is just as as prevalent it's basically the same size and resolution and aspect ratio and 120 hertz and all that, but you have a 30% harder screen protector over the glass. Cool. Yeah. It's great. Cool. They've also made it S Pen compatible. Big asterisk on that.

Okay. Explain the asterisks of that. I'll save my take on that. So there's a special new S Pen for the Galaxy Fold. It's the it's the s pen fold edition actually um well named yeah the way the s pen is designed is it has a soft it has a tip the way a normal stylus tip will be a fine point but it's it's soft touch and it actually retracts into the pen when you put enough pressure on it okay so the easiest way to damage

one of these is to really carve like with a fine tip thing in the screen protector so this one is designed to prevent that from happening it's a special s pen for this phone um s pen fold edition then there's also a new these are both optional by the way i was gonna say these are optional not included with the phone but there's also a new s pen uh pro i believe it's called and it's bigger it's more expensive it has a battery built in it charges via usbc and it has onboard memory and it will let you copy and paste things between samsung devices i thought that was pretty cool that is one of those things that i think is awesome and almost no one will use i i'm sure somebody is like freaking out and their workflow just got way way easier and they're super hyped and i'm

super happy for you i can't see myself ever using it but i think it's really cool there's some people in that ecosystem who have a samsung phone and a samsung tablet or samsung laptop and this is going to be sweet um but that pen has a literal physical hardware switch on it to switch between regular s pen mode and Galaxy Fold mode. And I actually, when I was just in the shooting area with spending my first hours with the phone, I didn't flip that switch and I went right to like trying to pair it with the phone and a warning popped up. I think because maybe the phone realized somehow recognized that I was poking it with a stylus

of some kind. And I put that warning in the video. It literally says like, hey, don't use styluses that aren't fold compatible. If you do use an S pen pro flip it to S pen, uh, flip it to fold mode. And so I flipped it and then, you know, it retracts more easily and then it works. That's what it does. It retracts it so easily. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, I think, I mean, I think you put it a little lightly saying that the um and you were just explaining but you were saying how the folds generally its worst enemy besides dust has been little nicks in the screen and we've seen especially on the fold one it got better in

the fold two but i still think it was a an issue around there is like you could basically carve out pieces of the screen like it would indent and then that screen's, it's flexible, it's fragile. It's like, that's really bad. People were doing it with their fingernails on the first one. So like to introduce S Pen to me seems like a really bold move.

It automatically makes me think maybe, I mean, if I'm being optimistic about it, it makes me think the screen has gotten a lot better, at least a lot more durable. Cause I don't see why'm being optimistic about it, it makes me think the screen has gotten a lot better, at least a lot more durable, because I don't see why they would ever bring it upon themselves to introduce another way of the fold breaking. Like, why would you want to go through those headlines again? Yeah.

So they must be pretty confident. We're assuming that this retractable thing works all the time. I can see the time it doesn't, or, you know people are messy something gets in there that s pen uh tip gets stuck and now you're all of a sudden carving into your eighteen hundred dollar phone we haven't mentioned the price yet eighteen hundred dollars that's not something i want to be breaking yeah still very expensive obviously i my take on this is samsung knows that not very many people will be buying both this phone and the optional S Pen.

And so that small group of people who do will take good care of it. Because you at that point have to buy the phone, buy the S Pen, maybe buy the case so you can carry around the thing with the phone. Does the case hold the Pro version also? Because the Pro version is like 30 to 40% bigger, right? Very much bigger percent bigger right it is bigger big yeah it's probably one and a half times the size it's it's kind of like something you'd find maybe attached to it's like an apple pencil like an actual pencil yeah i like how we don't reference real pencils anymore because no one knows the size of a real pencil anymore who's a ticonderona i can't remember the last time i held a pencil to be perfectly honest with you i haven't held a pencil in a long time no yeah so it's way bigger I don't think

you're gonna carry that around with the phone but yeah that person now has spent so much over two grand I'm assuming at this point you've bought the case about the phone you bought the s-pen that group of people is gonna take careful notes and take good care of this screen and if you really get that far and start to damage the screen like what happened something went wrong Samsung's very trustworthy trustworthy i think on that one yeah i think they did the math on that um but yeah it does it is s pen supported now and i think there's gonna be people who find that really nice because it's a bigger canvas than the galaxy note yeah it's a huge 120 hertz it makes perfect sense in a ideal scenario it's just i don't know if I fully would, as Samsung, have the confidence in it.

I appreciate they have the confidence in it. Like I said, optimistically, it makes me think the screen has gotten more durable. I don't know why they would introduce that unless it really has. This makes me think the Note can't possibly die. The Galaxy Note can't possibly be dead after this. I don't know how you got to that conclusion. I'm potentially introducing a different version of the Note, but they're obviously touting the S Pen with this.

Yeah, I think it's just because it's such a workaround. It's such an asterisk. A specific Fold Edition S Pen was made for this. It's a special pen. A special case needs Pen was made for this. Like, it's a special pen. A special case needs to be bought for it. A special mode needs to be used on the other one. And, like, I like that for this $1,800 phone. They've enabled one more use case.

But it's still very clear to me that the best stylus experience is the one that comes from the one that's built into the phone. I don't see how the note dies after this one. It just doesn't make mental sense to me. I still know that the rumors are pointing to it dying soon and it's crazy, but that's my logic. I think what scares me more is that the rumors aren't even really talking about it anymore, which makes me think that's way close. That means we're almost there i i mean little tangent we still have a couple things about the full to talk about but i think if they really like you know this big canvas an expensive phone with an s pen maybe replacing the note the note should turn into a budget s stylus option budget large screen stylus option for the people that we've talked about in the

past that are using it in a more blue collar situation where they need people who need a quick way to illustrate something in front of somebody on a job site and not be a thousand dollars and not be eighteen hundred dollars. Like I don't want to be on in a construction website or a construction site with a fold, an eighteen hundred dollar fold that might break where there's dust everywhere. Exactly. Yeah, right? Yeah. But there is two more things I have written down that I want to talk about.

One is like very new, which is the underscreen selfie camera. Oh, yeah. We have to talk about that. We got a little tangent on the pen there. Yeah. Okay. So there's multiple selfie cameras on this phone. On this folding phone.

So you've seen, you've probably imagined this before, but on the outside cover screen, there is still a hole punch selfie camera. And if you really, really want a high quality selfie, you can unfold it and use the main cameras as your selfie camera because the viewfinder is also on the outside. Boom, easy.

If you happen to be on the inside and maybe still want to take a selfie without closing it, at that point Samsung has included underneath the folding display a behind the display selfie camera. It is very reminiscent of the first gen one I looked

at about, I don't know, six months ago? I just looked this up. I think the ZT, it was the Axon 20? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The first article I found about it was end of December 2020. So yeah, probably about six months ago is when we actually got it. So that was the first gen. We know that a second gen is coming.

It should be improved a lot. But it looks a lot like that where, number one, it's got this like hexagon shaped cutout behind the screen. It, technically speaking, is better than a hole punch because a hole punch would just be a black circle. But, you know, you drag things behind that and it's pixelated and things start to moiré a little bit and your eye kind of catches it once in a while. And if you look for it, it's there.

It's very obviously there, especially off-axis. But it's not quite a hole punch. I would argue when you say better, just to... Visually. Thank you. Visually. Visually, it is better. Now, the photos it takes, probably worse.

So again, we're speaking now... Definitely worse. Yeah, definitely worse. I think that's safe to say. No, we have this on the backs of like a couple hours of hand-on, literally an hour of hands-on time. But I took some selfies with the Fold 3 and I could actually see it

sort of defogging the photo after I take it. Now again, this is a fast chip, Snapdragon 888. It's taking the photo quickly. But in the video, I included a bit where you hit the shutter, immediately go to look at the photo and you see the hazy photo and then boom, it adds the contrast

and it looks like you dragged a clarity slider. It looks like you're going to Light room and pressing auto and having it fix everything yeah basically so it's still doing some work there makes me wonder what do videos look like if i jump in like a zoom call on this phone is it gonna be hazy the whole time i don't know if it's live processing well yeah because when you look in the viewfinder it obviously isn't making the corrections and it looks rough it doesn't look that great no it looks like you're looking through like a scratched piece of plexiglass, which isn't that far off from what it's actually really doing.

But yeah, I really feel like my question is why? Now, I totally understand. I think I have your answer. Under display. I think I have my own answer, but I just want to. So like I totally understand under display selfie cameras are a thing they're going to be a thing i think it's the future and we're i would say in five years we'll probably see it in most flagship phones um just because we're hearing a lot about

it recently if you think about under display fingerprint sensor those came to market pretty quick and we see them in a lot so i wouldn't doubt if this makes it there that's pretty quickly um to me the fold is already such a bleeding edge phone it feels weird to put this in like phones are seeing that in now like the zte and we just got announcement that there's going to be a new mi mix 4 i think that should have it those are phones that we're used to seeing these like bleeding edge things be the the headline of the phone the fold the fold folds that's the headline it folds i like i don't need an under screen finger selfie camera interesting to be a headline there yeah so it feels i totally get that it wants to have an uninterrupted giant screen yeah that looks better it has the other selfie camera i guess the argument is and like

which totally kills my argument on why is just you if you're gonna do video calls you want to do it on the big screen in the inside yeah and you have to have it there yeah i you know what's funny maybe where's a pop-up i could see a pop-up in there. Water resistance, though. Maybe the folding part of the fold. This is the third fold, third generation of the Z Fold. Maybe the folding part, people are kind of over it. I hope not. We're not far enough to be over the fold yet. Here's the thing, though, about the general crowd looking at Samsung phones

and the general population who's about to see a bunch of commercials from Samsung. Most people have not seen the under-display camera ever. Maybe we've done a video on this. No, no, no, I totally agree with that. And there's another Mi Mix coming out that will have this. But most people will go, wait a second, it's under the screen and there's a camera back there? I don't know what the exact reaction is, but they haven't seen this before. And so that's one more crazy cool feature

in a phone that justifies $1,800 because folding in half wasn't enough to make this thing go mainstream. So it's just one more thing. They're tossing it in there. And I think also Samsung would probably tell you this is the least used selfie camera. Like we said, we have a hole punch one on the outside.

We have the main cameras if you really want a good selfie. And if you happen to be folded open and want to do something, this will pass. It will be okay. It won't look great, but it'll work. And so, you know, you get this, you know, bleeding edge technology that's in no other phone anyone's ever seen. And people are going to go, man, the iPhone's far behind. Because that's what people do when they see an unknown feature show up in one other phone. Just open a can of worms, man.

That's the reaction that I sort of predict we're going to see from the mainstream crowd. Here's my counter argument to that. And it is a counter argument for just the sake of argument. There is clearly no real reason to argue this. For stuff like the Fold and people spending a lot of that money, would you agree that kind of like showing off this new technology is definitely a pro to it? Like I have the Fold. My friends see me unfolding a phone. They're obviously going to ask questions about that.

Yeah. The under display selfie camera goes against all the flashiness of it by literally just not being there. I highly doubt somebody, you're going to open the Fold and someone's going to be like, oh my goodness, you don't have a selfie camera in there. It's one of those things you have to like point out to other people how impressive it is and that kind of loses the charm of like being bleeding edge and like having that 1800 phone again there's no reason for that argument i just uh wanted to toss it out there yeah it is it is true i would say all the things you say are true it's just like uh the enthusiast who gets this phone is going to be like, hell yeah, I have an under-display fingerprint.

I think that's the best thing. It's totally marketed at enthusiasts, and they're going to be really hyped about it until they see the hazing. Fingerprint reader is still on the power button, by the way. Just a regular fingerprint reader on the power button. I think that's fine. How could you? It's not like under the screen, also alongside the camera.

I'm still totally team power button fingerprint reader. I think it's fine. I wish so many more phones did that, to be honest. Software experience, generally the same as the last fold, but they've obviously added some, maybe not obviously, but there's some new features with multitasking just because this is the phone that you get if you're going to multitask and be productive.

So that's what this is good at. Oh, it's not the Duo? No, it's not the Duo. Oops, my mistake. I mean, you could get the Duo, but you'd be waiting a lot longer for everything to happen um there is a labs feature that lets you like force apps to multitask despite their lack of optimized aspect ratio it's in a lab section so you can turn it on if you want okay um i really like the side dock so samsung's been doing this like slide out side dock thing for like a long time, since the first Note Edge.

Note Edge came first, actually. Note Edge came first, okay. Yeah, and this is a lot of years ago, but you slide it out and you get this useful, you know, panel of apps maybe, but also you could have like a compass over there or like a news ticker. You could do whatever.

In that slide over dock, you can actually pin it and it'll just like nudge your whole UI over like 50 pixels or whatever it is. And it'll leave a permanent dock of your whatever apps you want on the side of the phone. You can always launch from there and it'll move like the top three to be your most recent apps. So if you're copying, pasting between stuff, it'll just be like a click away at all times i think this is a great idea as someone who hates the side dock in mac os and has used plenty of samsung phones and has never actually taken advantage of the like you know scroll over side apps i think this is awesome it's great i

think it's really cool i think it's the perfect scenario for it and i think samsung's been working for so long on something similar like this it's finally paying off in this scenario yeah um i think it's really cool that's a good little feature you can also just unpin it anytime you want yeah right like you you can use it you can get tired of it you can do you can do the stuff with phones that's awesome where it's like i always feel like with my phone if i'm feeling like i've had it for too long i take the case off i'm like oh this is a totally new phone now i can just add a dock, take a dock away. Oh my God, everything's different.

Yeah, I had a time where I was using the S21 Ultra for a little while and I started using that slide over thing a little more. And I was like, oh, I'll put my to-do list and my camera and my like quick access apps over there. So I'll always like have my swipe away. But like my muscle memory, when I want to go to another app is so fast to just go home

and just open it from the home screen that I just didn't use it enough. So the fact that it'll always be pinned over there, maybe that'll sort of finally be a new muscle memory habit. We'll see. But yeah, I don't know. For 1,800 bucks,

I'll ask this last thing about it. Do you think it takes another step towards adoption by more reasonable people? It's $1,800. And I was just talking also about what are the most premium phones you could cross-shop this with. It's like the most expensive iPhone is like $1,500 or something right now. S21 Ultra is up there approaching it. But $1,800 is still above the top. You got to really want to fold.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are people still going to keep waiting, you think? No, but we're going to take a short break and I'm going to tell you about one that I do think is going to be a little more general consumer. All right, we'll be right back. Support for the show today comes from NetSuite. Anxious about where the economy is headed?

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The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. This is an ad from BetterHelp. This holiday season, do something for a special person in your life. You. Give yourself the gift of better mental health. BetterHelp Online Therapy connects you with a qualified therapist via phone, video, or live chat.

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I think I'm more interested because I think this feels like something more general consumers will use. Fully, fully, fully agree. I haven't titled the impressions video yet, but I think it'll have something to do with that. A little sneak peek here on waveform. And by peek i mean you're gonna listen to this like like two days after it's posted but but we're still brainstorming the title just as we record

this um yeah okay so i had some hands-on time with the flip three yeah i'll break it down a little bit it's a thousand dollars 9.99 so now you're really like in the mix with other phones you can buy feels rough saying that in the mix but it is in the mix with other phones you can buy. It feels rough saying that in the mix, but it is in the mix. We are not saying this is cheap by any means. No, no, no. It's in the mix with the other very expensive phones. There are consumers that buy $1,000 phones who aren't big

tech heads. Yep, exactly. So what do you get? So the last flip, I liked the last flip. There were two of them actually. There was the Z Flip and then there was a Z Flip 5G, which is like the second one. A little bit of a, actually. There was the Z Flip, and then there was a Z Flip 5G, which is like the second one. A little bit of a newer chip, 5G. Yeah, that confused me a little bit.

Yeah, and we know people who love the Flip. I'm pretty sure Austin Evans still dailies the Flip today. Quinn used it a bunch also. My favorite is Quinn used it just like throw it on the ground every once in a while. Yeah, just like a daily phone, just like any other phone. I love it. The Flip had a couple interesting shortcomings because it was mostly compared to the Razr.

It had a very small outside cover screen. Yeah, I actually described it as like the better hardware Razr without the nostalgia. So ultimately that doesn't sell very great. Yeah, yeah. It had a 1.1-inch outside cover screen, so it really just showed you the time. You could swipe your call to accept and see stuff on the outside, but it wasn't great.

It was very small. So that was the one thing that I really wanted to be bigger. It also had a 60-hertz display, and it had a pretty high price tag. So again, $999. This is a 128-gig phone, so I think the asterisk I'll put on this $999 price is the other flips in the past started at a higher price, but they also started at $256. So the $256 of this year's phone will be higher, but they've cut down to 128 gig for $999.

Most thousand dollar phones have more than that. So they did and they didn't. Yeah, they got there, but not quite. Anyway, so they have a bigger outside cover screen. And I just generally like this design way more. We've been handling the old flip. A billion times more. I can't even describe how much more I like this than the old one. That mirror finish was terrible. That thing, it kind of looked like a toy to me. Quinn, Austin, if you're still holding the Flip right now. That doesn't mean it's not good. I just did not like it.

No, you're going to like this one way more, though. Yeah. Okay, so they flattened out the sides. They've got this little two-tone design, but the outside cover screen is now 1.9 inches, which is hard to put in context, but it's way bigger. It's like four times the area um because it's twice the diagonal yeah i mean we basically say it looks very much like a pixel two if you

imagine a pixel two that could fold in half and then you take the glass area on top of the two-tone you know exterior yeah that's basically the screen yeah and it's right next to the dual cameras so now that this outside screen is way bigger you are more it's not like razor big where you're like reading through things on it but it is much bigger to the point where you can like triage notifications on it you can swipe over and like do music playback controls comfortably yeah and these are things you don't want to have to like it's this thing where you don't want to open the phone every time.

Like you pull it out of your pocket, you just want to hit pause. Having to open it, unfold it and pause is just one more step. So the original flip, it solved the problem by being able to be more compact but then also created a new problem with that is like generating that extra step

in between doing things. So this solves the problem it created. Yeah, so it takes away some of that friction step in between doing things. So this solves the problem it created. Yeah, so it takes away some of that friction of getting the quick things. I think there's a stopwatch, there's the timer, alarms. You can put a weather widget in there, view your calendar, just like some neat, simple, quick glanceable things. Makes sense.

Do we know if you can get into like Google Assistant or if it just uses the phrase there while it's closed so i didn't get to try during the hands-on i don't believe there's a way to get to the assistant on the outside screen i could double check that when we get the units but i believe because that would be really nice to not like i think about all the times where i just i still love my squeeze feature feature on my pixel and just like being able to to pull up assistant on the outside screen without opening it and get a quick result on there would be awesome yeah yeah that would be nice i i'll try that for sure okay but yeah like you said it looks like the pixel 2 because it's two-tone the hinge again gives it ipx8 so it is

not dust resistant but you can splash this phone and it'll be fine uh snapdragon triple eight eight gigs of ram on every spec and it's just it feels when i open this phone there's like a there's one upside and one downside to it when i'm when i'm using it it feels the most like a regular smartphone of any folding it looks the most like when that is flipped open it just looks like a regular a weird aspect ratio regular flip or uh sorry regular like candy bar smartphone yeah and it's not even that crazy it's a a little tall, but it's pretty close. And the hinge is so good that when you open it fully flat, it's really flat, and you kind of just ignore the crease.

The downside is because the crease is across the middle, a lot of your swiping touches the crease, which is not true about the fold because it's in the middle horizontally. So you feel the crease a little more. I think that think we had this conversation yesterday and i found it super interesting we didn't bring it up last time or just didn't notice it maybe but like yeah if you have a phone that folds i'm just gonna call it hamburger style and then a full phone that full hot dog style like you are the crease is horizontal or vertical when it's horizontal you're scrolling over all the

time because that's just where your hand goes yeah when it's in that big uh big screen of the fold and it's in the middle vertically you're almost never scrolling over it because if you're swiping left or right it's probably on the left or right side of the screen yeah you almost never drag your finger over top of it yeah so i feel like the the fold with its big vertical crease is more visually distracting but the flip with its small horizontal crease is almost never visually distracting to me but i do feel it with my thumb which is almost more distracting it's a feeling you just have to you kind of have to just hold it and use it yeah it's a vibe you'll figure it out once you hold it you'll understand what i'm talking about um but hold it and use it. Yeah, it's a Vive. You'll figure it out once you hold it.

You'll understand what I'm talking about. But yeah, it's much better built. It really is much better built. It's got the flat sides. It's still got the fingerprint reader and the power button. Like we said, we like that. IPX8 I mentioned, we like that. Not a whole lot wrong.

It's got better speakers as well. It doesn't do S Pen support despite the stronger cover glass in this phone too. That doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't bother me. It also doesn't do S Pen support despite the stronger cover glass in this phone too. That doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me. It also doesn't have the fingerprint or sorry, it doesn't have the hole punch selfie camera either. It has a cutout still on the inside. It does have a hole punch. It doesn't have under screen. Sorry.

Yes, that's fine. It does have a cutout. We have so many. There's too many vocab words in the smartphone world. Sorry if we mess one up every once in a while. But it does have the cutout and I'm fine with that too. It's the only selfie camera. Although, yeah, you can close the

phone and use the outside cover screen as a viewfinder. So if you want a good selfie, there you go. That's so easy too to just pull out that little thing just like in the palm and just snap a photo. It's easy. That's what I like about the Razr. I didn't think of that. So yeah, it's the closest to a regular phone

in air quotes. Regular phone to me. It's the closest to a regular phone experience, closest to a regular phone in air quotes regular phone to me it's the closest to a regular phone experience closest to a regular phone size closest to a regular phone price uh closest yeah but i think this is the closest that we're going to get to regular people picking up this phone and if i were to recommend any folding phone to a real human today this is definitely the one I would pick. To me, it is the folding phone that gets the closest to what it's intended to be. This is supposed to be a regular phone that then becomes compact when you're storing it. It does that. It does exactly that.

This is so much easier to fit into a purse, into a bag, into a pocket. It's much more compact while being a regular phone when it's open. The Fold's kind of purpose is to, we keep talking about it almost becoming a tablet. It's not quite there yet. It's still a bit small, and it's still really chunky when it's folded in.

So I think that still aways from hitting exactly what it's intended to be, whereas the Flip kind of nails it already. The Fold has a bigger ambition. Exactly. And that's why I think it's intended to be, whereas the Flip kind of nails it already. The Fold has a bigger ambition. Exactly. And that's why I think it's gonna take longer. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think whenever I think about these folding phones,

my question is always, why does it fold? And the answer for the Flip, why does it fold, is, oh, so it can be more compact in your pocket. Oh, that's simple. Great, it does that, it wins. For the Fold, the reason why does it fold is so you can have a tablet in your pocket. Oh, that's simple. Great. It does that. It wins. For the Fold, the reason why does it fold is so you can have a tablet in your pocket. And that's a much bigger ambition. And they're working towards that right now. It's a seven and a half inch screen. It's not like replacing an iPad,

but like an iPad mini is 7.9. It's like almost there, but that's hard. That's really hard. It's really hard. It's hard to get it as thin as possible and reasonable as a regular phone and replacing a tablet in your pocket. So yeah, the flip is there on the Ambition, and I think that's pretty cool. Also, David pointed this out because he thought it was great, that there are seven colors.

Seven colors. Potentially eight. Actually, yeah, potentially eight, but four regular colors, three Samsung.com exclusive colors, and then the Tom Brown edition. And then there's also two SKUs. There's 128 gig and a 256. So that means 16 versions of this phone that not a lot of people are going to be buying.

But that's Samsung for you, just making all the things. Yeah, if you're arguing folding phones aren't here to stay, I don't think anyone would make 16 SKU numbers of a phone they didn't think was actually going to do okay. Samsung's going to make sure they're here to stay. I don't know. I'm into the matte. The black one, the phantom black one, is the only matte finish one that I saw from those four colors. So they were cream, which is like yellow, green, which is sort of a darker military green type thing. Lavender is purpley and then phantom black,

matte black. So two tone would be, it would actually be two different finishes, glossy and matte black. Yeah. I mean, very similar to pixel two black. Um,

I really want to see green in person from the videos that I've seen. Cream looks nice. Um, it's like banana. Oh, is that the banana one? Maybe, maybe cream's not's not nice green green looks the most interesting to me i don't know i've been really digging green phones lately i like that they're doing them and i like that they're not doing them bright they're doing them like a muted color instead i think when we got that it was with

the 11 the iphone 11 with that with that love it love it love it i think that's one more muted stuff because then the 12 blue also looked amazing pacific blue one of the best hot take best iphone color of all time not a hot take not a hot take no you're wrong if you don't best iphone color of all time i think that's what it's debatable i mean there's some great reds there's some great reds yeah um but i really like how dare you make a Samsung conversation and an iPhone into an iPhone it's the natural flow of tech conversations you know it's kind of how it goes anyway that that's pretty much it we've got a lot more obviously the watches are out to the buds are out

we've got four reviews of as much of this stuff coming as we can but like I said the floodgates have opened I feel like we're oh yeah we're getting there we're not thinking of it we got phones coming we've got all sorts of other tech tech coming but yeah the videos are uh are on their way so feel free to check those out but that's been it i feel like we've we've hit all the points we've talked about all the things and we'll be back with you guys next week be sure to subscribe to this studio channel i'll give that a shout out at the end of this so if you make it this far in the video subscribe to the studio channel. I'll give that a shout out at the end of this. So if you make it this far in the video, subscribe to the studio channel.

Hope to see you over there. Thanks for watching. See you later. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina. We are partnered with Studio 71 and our intro outro music was created by Vane Sil.