Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Sony Xperia 1 III & the Creator Economy

Episode Date: July 2, 2021

We're back to our bread and butter this week with lots of tech news to discuss! While Andrew is vacationing in the mountains of the west coast, David Imel joins Marques to discuss the Windows 11 features they like most, and a few they don't. Plus, they talk about the new Sony Xperia 1 III, dancing robots, and Patreon's unique place in the Creator Economy.  Links: Subscribe to the pod & share with friends: http://bit.ly/WaveformMKBHD Subscribe to the pod on YouTube for full videos: https://bit.ly/WVFRMPodcastYouTube https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/AdamLukas17 https://twitter.com/DurvidImel  https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Decoder interview w/Jack Conte: https://bit.ly/3AmgUPF  Boston Dynamics: https://bit.ly/363Lujc  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to to do it and who to hire start caring for your home with confidence download thumbtack today you know what's great about ambition you can't see it some things look ambitious but looks can be deceiving for example a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus.

You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best? Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. All right, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Waveform Podcast.

We're your hosts. I'm Marques. And I'm Andrew. And that's not Andrew, actually. Surprise. Wow. For the audio only listeners, David just ripped his face off. I ripped Andrew's face off. We ripped Andrew's face off.

Welcome David and Mel to Waveform episode 70. So shout out to Andrew. He's out in the mountains right now going on fun hikes, climbing big rocks. I'm sure having a good time. But we still have plenty of tech to talk about and figured we'd put it all in one place here. Our last episode was episode 69. Nice. There it is.

And we took some time to do a fun little like game show type thing that we built. So it's a sort of a tech trivia show. You can play along. It's about like tech and videos from the first half of the year. It's a little more visual heavy for maybe for that one, go to the YouTube channel for it. But we're back with a bunch of tech to talk about. I kind of want to start with Windows 11 because you've said, are you running Windows 11? Not on this computer. This is actually Andrew's computer. I left my Surface book at home, sadly. But I am running Windows 11 on my Surface book. So it was just unveiled last week and now there's a build available for the public to actually download and try. I made a

reaction video just like talking about my couple of major thoughts on the new changes it's very glassy and shiny and transparent overall the start menu centered now that you've used it for a little bit maybe a day or two have you found some things like super easy to get over or like really jarring or have you gotten used to all of it how's it gone a couple different things i found that one it sort of feels feels like Microsoft is trying to simplify everything with the UI. They're trying to make it from what I've gathered. It feels like they're they're moving the UI elements more towards feeling like a phone, which is pretty funny, but kind of makes sense, especially for the generations that are growing up right now,

if they want to onboard all of these kids that have been using phones since they were born. Yeah, there's the big pullover thing from the side, which is where all these widgets and AI news feeds live. Is that part of what you're talking about? It's that, and then everything's bigger and bubblier. So for example, in regular Windows 10, if you click down on, there's all these icons in the bottom right with battery management, you can switch power modes and all these things.

Now you click and there's just one set of quick settings that comes up. And they're all pretty big icons. They're individual and you can swap them out. It's almost like the quick settings menu on your phone. And you can edit what's there and they're big. And then all the menus just like completely different. They're more simplified. They're definitely more aesthetically pleasing.

Okay. And so I think it's definitely something Windows needed to do because they're kind of known for being very, what's the word? I guess like focused on information heaviness and less on just UI and aesthetics. Yeah. And it just needed simplification for people to be able to like know how to use it. Right. I also found weirdly that Big Sur also had a lot of elements that looked like they belonged.

Maybe not on a phone, but at least on a touch screen. Like big touch targets, sliders, things that are like way bigger than they used to be. Yeah. Felt less like a computer. And I wonder if that's kind of in the same vein. They're like, oh, well, there's going to be young people who are used to iPads. We'll make it look kind of like an iPad or other future things in mind. I don't really know.

Centered start menu. Good, bad. Totally okay. I haven't gotten used to it yet, personally. I keep going to the left. You can move it. Right. So you can move it to the left if you want.

I'm trying to get used to it before I move it. Yeah. It's a little bit weird. I do like that the icons come up from the center. It feels more like it's being birthed from the center. That's maybe a weird term, but yeah, like comes out of the center instead of having to like look around your screen it was a it was a big focus of the event of like this whole centered theme yeah it's like it's gonna it's not only the center of the screen but like it's the center of

your life then it's the center of your environment and windows is now the center of this like ecosystem yeah i feel at home oh man we should have had Panos on. Windows 10 home. Yeah. No, it makes sense to me. Anytime I go to Windows, I just hit the Windows button on the keyboard. So it would just be an aesthetic change for me. Instead of mousing to the corner,

I would just hit the button and be like, oh, it's in the middle. But you know, it's a small thing to get used to. For the last like year or two, they've been updating their icons to basically get ready for this. And their new icon design, I think, is really good. It's very specific, very like you don't really get it confused with any other icons.

Yeah, I like it. Yeah, me too. I like it. The new store icon. But also, speaking of the store, that was one of the biggest, most interesting parts of their announcement. Yeah. And we should talk about it for a second. So you can now, this is the headline, you can now run Android apps on Windows 11.

Oh, cool. Great. I don't know if I'm going to do that, but like, okay, you know, makes sense. Lots of people who are used to a certain number of apps, they want to bring them everywhere they go. They can now use them on their Windows PC. Neat. Windows PC. Neat.

The subtext to that headline is inside of the Windows Store, the way this is going to work is Microsoft has partnered with Amazon and Amazon's Android app App Store, which is not the same as the Play Store. It's a big overlap, but it's an Amazon App Store. Yep. Will surface results inside of Microsoft Store. Yep. So you have to want to search in the Windows Store, in the Microsoft Store for apps. And then when you do.

Step one. Yeah. When you do, you'll find some Android apps in there. Let's say you want to install one. If you do, you'll have to be signed into your Amazon account and you'll have to have the Amazon App Store app on your PC. So once that is all done, then you can download apps that were built for ARM chips and Android and touchscreens and put them on your PC.

Do you care at all about this? Is this a stick? Are you going to try it? I'm not sure I would care. I have so many thoughts about this. I tweeted about this because I was really like, this feels so hacky and convoluted. about this because I was really like, this feels so hacky and convoluted and it kind of goes back to, we use computers differently than we use phones, right? When you have a phone, you're used to going to the app store, downloading an app.

Like you don't, sideloading apps you can do on Android, but you only would really do it if like you're either trying to get it for free or you'd normally have to pay for it. Not, this is not legal advice yeah I shouldn't actually do that but yeah or if you it was like taken off of the play store or something and you wanted to get it yeah that's pretty much the only I do that all the time yeah yeah so the. So, whereas on a computer, sideloading on a computer is basically the default. Like, you download apps from websites. Yeah. It's a different, interesting behavior. I'm trying to think of all the apps that I typically install.

Like, when I set up a new computer, whether it's a Mac or a Windows machine, I don't really go to the actual store very much. Now, on a Mac, I do a little bit more. There's a little bit better curation and I get Slack and my to-do list and, you know, Final Cut and Tweetbot all from the store. But when I'm setting up a Windows machine, I'm going to the browser for pretty much everything. For Slack, for that app, for Spotify, for that app, for, you know, my to-do list for the app. All of these are things that I'm downloading from the web and I don't really go to the Microsoft Windows store ever. So is this an effort, I guess, for them to like make you more comfortable with the store or get you using the store more, even though they don't want it to take over the whole

experience? A hundred percent. I think so. Cause like, like I said before, um, you know, we're so used to like just going to an app store on our phones, whereas on our computers. And you said like, yeah, you may be able to download some apps off of the Mac App Store. You still can download most apps from the website, right? You still can.

Yeah. And even on Android, way back in the day, when you go to Amazon.com, it would be like, hey, we have a free app of the week on the Amazon App Store. You should sideload the and like they encouraged you to sideload another app store onto your phone which now seems like weird you would think google would get really mad about that um that might be an antitrust thing i'm not sure but like the fact that you had to sideload the amazon app store onto your android phone in the past, and they would kind of just like copy as many apps from the Play Store as they could onto the Amazon App Store.

Yeah. And now you have to do that on your computer. It just feels so hacky, one. And then two, I really dislike that you need to have now a Microsoft account and an Amazon account to be able to run Android apps. It's more about principle. Like we all have both accounts and it's fine. But like the same way you needed a Facebook account to use an Oculus.

Yeah. I don't want both. Exactly. Okay. And then the other thing is that we've tried, you know, running mobile apps on screens that were not made for mobile apps. Chrome OS supports Android apps. I like that for some reasons because- I never used them.

Yeah, the only thing I really used that for was being able to upload photos to Instagram from my laptop, which you can actually do in Chrome if you emulate a tablet. A mobile device? Yeah. Okay. But if you edit on your PC, if you emulate a tablet. A mobile device? Yeah. Okay. But if you like edit on your PC, then you want to just upload. Yeah. There are some like edge cases.

Edge. Edge. But at the same time, like the experience of using a mobile app on anything but a mobile device is really bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's not great. Like he showed TikTok on the screen and they just showed TikTok open, but I was like, go

ahead, try to scroll. Yeah. You don't have a touchscreen. Go ahead. Finger on the finger on the mouse like you know it's like not an ideal experience yeah all these apps are built for finger input so trying to replicate that with the touchpad on various windows laptops will be various different experiences so it is what it is but i did see you i think it was confirmed you'll be able to sideload android apps i think straight up apks right into windows 11 which is pretty cool which is nice so if i find like a dark sky clone somewhere on the dark web i can install the apk yeah uh but that is that is the state of yeah the new store on windows 11 i just i don't know what android apps that you would

want to run on a computer that you couldn't there isn't a better alternative that you can just download from a website you know and like I definitely think that this is a move for Microsoft to get more people comfortable with the Windows Store because they can take more revenue if you buy games directly off of the Windows Store than if you you know buy it Steam. They don't get revenue from that. Yes, although they did make a pretty big point in their presentation about the choice developers have now, where you can go through Microsoft, and I think they take a 15% cut, or you can use your own payment system, and they don't take a cut at all.

And they set it on stage, because now that everybody knows Apple's taking a 30% cut, that's sort of a big deal. So yeah, just making developers comfortable, making users comfortable. Check out how great this Windows Store is. It is really interesting because I want to immediately dismiss the idea that people will ever use the Windows Store at all ever because I have never used it at all ever and I don't plan to. But that said, like I said with like previous like

newer generations being more used to the idea of app stores yeah if they come on to Windows devices and there is an app store maybe they'll default to that versus the side loading of downloading something from a website yeah and it'll have all the apps they already know yeah and the other thing is that like Windows 11 is very geared towards like they made a big deal of it being very touchscreen friendly. Right. And this concerned me a little bit because if we remember Windows 8, it was overtly touchscreen friendly. So much so that desktop users got really put to the side. It was built for touchscreens.

It was built for touchscreens. It's got the tiles and everything. Yeah. They made a big deal of this also being more built for touchscreens. It's got the tiles and everything, yeah. They made a big deal of this also being more built for touchscreens. I think it's a better kind of like balance because they just made the touch targets bigger. And like the UI doesn't actually really change when you switch to touchscreen mode, but it is easier to use.

Yeah, I agree. I think it's a good balance. I'm just a little bit worried that they're going to like fall back into that cycle of like bad Windows, good Windows, bad Windows, good Windows. So I agree. I think they did make a nicer balance. I think I hope they've learned their lesson. Like if we went to Windows 8 and then they got right to 8.1, like they made the changes they had to. So I feel like, yeah, we have bigger touch targets, but it does still look like Windows as far as I can tell. And I'm sure we'll find out more as this comes out eventually

by the end of the year i guess but uh yeah i think the last bit about windows 11 i want to talk about was the the confusion about what computers can actually update to windows 11 because there's a certain chip now it was a mess i guess can we break it down as simply as possible there's a chip yeah that is in most modern pcs that is required to run windows 11 yeah and if you i think a lot of people just don't know if they have the chip or not or they've realized that their like three-year-old laptop doesn't have the chip or it isn't enabled and you have to go into the bios enable it then it'll work yeah um i think a compatibility checker that handles all this stuff would be great if it just had blanket understood they have it okay it was broken for the first about week right so so it's like the this

chip is called a tpm chip it's a security module chip that is supposed to handle like lower level security stuff microsoft said you needed a tpm 2.0 chip which only came out like three years ago You needed a TPM 2.0 chip, which only came out like three years ago And actually in the system requirements that said 2.0 But it's not actually required 1.2 is required which came out a long time ago Okay, almost every computer has a 1.2 chip The problem is the compatibility checker Was like no it was broken for multiple reasons like for one reason It was saying you

needed to when you actually only need a 1.2 and then the other thing was the BIOS thing whereas like I think they're like you would you would think that maybe everyone that wants to get on the insider build or like the like beta build of Windows 11 would know how to do stuff with their BIOS I don't think that's the case. That's not the case. There's a difference between beta testers and people that are willing to get really into the weeds. Get dirty in the BIOS and everything. Yeah.

Which is, it's a scary thing to do because you can really mess up your computer. Yeah. So. All right. Well, I hope it gets simplified in the future. I'm looking forward to more testing of Windows 11. Yeah. Segway time.

Speaking of 11. Yeah. Segway time. Speaking of 11. Wow. I don't know. You're going to. Well, the Xperia 1 Mark III has nothing to do with 11. Well, it has a one and it has three ones. It doesn't have two ones. So the name is two 11s, but then one of the.

It left. Anyway. It left. Anyway. It walked away. Okay. The review of the Sony Xperia Mark III is now live on the channel. And I wanted to shout that out because this, I'm going to hold it up right now. This has got to be the most oddly put together set of flagship parts I've ever seen.

Yeah. It is, it becomes uber enthusiast. It's like a really good phone. I really enjoyed using this phone except for the one weird auto-rotate bug. But I just want to just go over from the top to the bottom every weird decision they've made about this phone and why it just seems like it's geared

to be the lowest selling best phone they've ever made. Okay, number one, the name. It's a Sony Xperia 1 III. Okay. Yep. That's just good luck explaining that. You can say Mark III. Yeah.

You can say it's the third one. Whatever you want to say, it's not a great name. Yeah. But there it is. Sony Xperia 1 Mark III. Two, this phone was announced in April, and it's been under embargo for a while since then i've had this phone for about a month yeah i got the phone and typically this is what happens we get a phone for review and it's like all right well when does it actually get like unveiled when is

the embargo up it'll be in a week or so and we'll have that amount of time to play with the phone sometimes it's two weeks nice this one it was like five weeks we're like okay this is what happens is it gets announced it has some cool features and then slowly the hype drains and the attention span forgets yeah and then it quietly launches a month later no one buys it so yeah it is out now um yeah the screen the screen is the next one so this is a high-end phone. It's got a Snapdragon 888, 12 gigs of RAM, Android 11. But the screen is a 21 by 9, 4K OLED at 120 hertz. So it's a battery burner. It definitely burns through battery, but it's 4K all the time,

and you cannot change the resolution. And that, to me, is kind of crazy. You can change the refresh rate between 60 and 120 um would you even want a 4k phone or it's one of those things that like they have those compatible like not compatibility checkers but they have these grids online that you can look up that's like what resolution do you need for how far away you are from your device and it's usually for tvs and it's like you only need 4k if you're sitting up this close because then you'll start to see the pixels your

phone is like six inches from your face yeah so so i think that's why apple did the whole retina display thing was because like look you're here um you know it's like at least you can toggle the 4K mode on in YouTube and know that it's giving you all the pixels. True 4K. Yeah. But it just feels like something they felt like they needed to do because they have the Bravia line of TVs. I would be fine with it. It's just you can't turn it down. Yeah.

Like Sony put a 1440p screen in a lot of their phones and at any point you can just switch switch it to 1080p mode, and you'll save battery life, you'll save power, you're pushing less pixels, performance will be better, and you just know you have the ability to do that at any time. If you want 1440, turn it back up. Now you can watch the video at full res. This phone is 4K, which would be a great option, but you cannot turn it off. And I wonder if they'll add that with a software update or whatever. But, I mean, it's a great looking screen. But like you said, if you're thinking about retina display, that's like 250, 350 PPI is like pretty good. Yeah.

This is a 640 plus PPI panel. That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I got to say, like, I do appreciate high density displays. it's yeah yeah i mean i gotta say like i do appreciate high density displays i remember when the lgg3 came out and it was like it was the forced 1440p phone and it just blew my mind and they had all of these demos built into the phone that would just be like 1440p video and you could show your friends and it was amazing um and i like 1440p phones i just find it hilarious because like

samsung for example who like when the Ultra came out everyone was like oh but I want to run you know 1440p at 120 hertz and they're like haha you can't do that you can run 1080p at 120 hertz or you can run 1440p at 60 hertz and yet

Sony's just like lol nah you're gonna do 4k all the time at 120 hertz. No choice. Just like, oh my gosh. And you're going to like it too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, this is a really interesting choice.

And we'll see if that ever changes. But then also, okay, this phone also has a nice design. It's matte black. It's kind of like soft touch. It's pretty squared off. But it's got a ton of like these niche features that you just don't see combined two phones nowadays Yeah, one headphone jack. Yeah Wow They added that in the two by the way that in the Xperia 1 1 they didn't have it 11 Windows 11

And the experiment they didn't have it which was like You know Sony this is your chance. Yeah, exactly. So they added it back. Yes. It's still here. Yeah there's this really nice haptic motor and this like sync where it'll like sync to the beat of your music and vibrate the music, which is, you know. Xperia XZ2, they added that. And it's kind of ridiculous, but whatever. It works.

It's a powerful motor. I dislike when there's like a weak vibration motor and you miss calls because of it. Yeah. Tool-less SIM card tray. Sony's always had this. And it's so underrated for tech reviewers. So happy.

Like I know people generally don't care but it's so nice. And especially because they also have dual SIM and a micro SD card slot. Micro SD card expansion.

Yes. So you can add up to a terabyte of storage via micro SD. That's a dying breed. How many dying breed things do we have in here? There's a LED

notification light on this phone yeah you really don't see that very often i remember when i had to like run cyanogen mod on my galaxy or my nexus 6 to be able to enable the the led notification oh yeah because it had one but it didn't talk to any apps yeah yeah that was a weird time that was weird like they were going to use it and then they scrapped it but you could like get it back if you ran your own custom wrong yeah and then it would glow like green for texts and yellow for twitter and like yeah first whatever like that that was cool um this phone's got custom buttons okay so all the way on the right hand side power button and fingerprint

reader volume rocker up here which is nice custom single button down here just for google assistant yes very nice give me that very nice i kind of wish there was a software toggle to continually make that whatever i want but yeah i would have made it assistant anyway so cool yeah and then a separate camera toggle yeah with a half press for focus and a full press to launch or take photos and videos yep that is all like very unusual to find in any other phone out there right now. But I think the camera is where it gets the weirdest. So we've got triple cameras on the back, a regular, an ultra wide, and a telephoto.

But the telephoto has two different focal lengths. And we were trying to figure out how they did this or what exactly is happening inside the phone. There are some Sony videos on their YouTube channel where you can see it's a periscope-type lens, so it's sideways inside the phone. But there are glass elements moving inside the phone, so it'll snap between 70 millimeters and 105 millimeters. In practice, it's not actually that big of a difference in zoom. That's like a 1.3x or whatever you want to call it but it was just fascinating that it would actually do that and they actually spent the time to

engineer such a unique solution inside the phone yeah um do you think this has a future do you think this could be built by other companies you think they'll keep doing this yeah i could i could see it as being a thing for sure uh i think optical telephoto lenses are very important because like software is fine when you have really high resolution sensors and we do have really high resolution sensors but again you have all of these problems with high resolution sensors in smartphones because like sure but they're not big enough and then when you do make them big you have a very small plane of focus yep what sony was trying to do with with this and they started

this in the xperia 1 2 i believe was like they want to have the holy trinity of lenses which is a 16 to 24 a 24 to 70 and a 70 to 200 okay and so the idea is that there's a 16 there's a 24 and then in the mark 2 there was a 70 and you could zoom you could do software crop between them yeah this one i think they're just trying to give you as much optical capability as possible i love it yeah i think it's a great idea but i get a little nervous about this for two reasons. One, I don't, so I talked about this in the review video, but what Samsung did with dual aperture, where they had a really good idea. They were like, okay, we would like to be able to close down aperture because you can get more in focus.

You can take sharper photos. There's all sorts of useful applications of it. And in the Galaxy S99 they had either a wide open or stop down i forget what the f-stop was yeah like 4.4 or something yeah versus like 1.8 or whatever wide open and you could see it like snap closed snap open and they built that into the phone i was like that is super cool we literally have variable aperture in our main smartphone camera yeah and the next year it was gone yep and they never did again and we could really use it we really could have used it because there's phones like the s21 that have the ultra

shallow depth of field where if you could just stop down to f4 like every photo in daylight would look better so the fact that they never brought it back despite being super useful it makes me nervous that this might never show up in another phone again yeah it's just a gimmick nobody's gonna buy the phone. Sony's gonna realize all the R&D money was for nothing and then it's gone. Yeah. So I'm nervous about that. Yeah.

It might happen. It might not. But the other thing is like it's not that great of a camera sadly. Yeah. It's a, you know, Sony's made like great improvements with their software. Yeah. And obviously Sony makes alpha cameras. Yeah.

And they've made really good cameras in the past. And so this is really good fast autofocus and really cool having a dedicated shutter button and all the advanced modes and everything 20 fps burst mode it's great i never miss a shot there's like no shutter lag but then the shot i get is like yeah yeah a little too shallow a little bit muted so it is what it is. The phone itself, though, very nice. I'll show this on the podcast, even though I did it already on the video. World's slowest auto rotate. I've never seen anything like this in any other phone. Ready? Wow. It takes a good four seconds. Yeah, we actually timed it yesterday. On average, it was almost three. And then one time it took seven.

Yeah. And as a person, I know not everybody, some people just lock auto-rotate and never use and don't care. But as a person who does rotate stuff all the time, I watch a lot of videos. It got very annoying. Yeah. So something to keep an eye on. Maybe they'll fix that with software.

But Sony Xperia 1 III, $1,200. If you can get over that then you'll have the world's maybe not the world's first variable aperture or variable zoom but yeah a couple really impressive things 4K screen and a nice smooth Android experience yeah their UI is really good

I think we were talking about this yesterday it's like I think the S21 Ultra at $1,200 is a best a better overall package for people who care about the things that most people care about. Yeah. But if you're like a hardcore just like, I want the best everything, then like these are really good phones. Yeah. I would say, I would argue the S21 Ultra for the same price will give you all better cameras.

Yeah. They would give you a better screen despite not being 4k because it's bigger much brighter yeah they would give you better software they would give you better battery life they would give you faster charging and they'd probably give you more software updates but if you care about the things that sony does yeah care about the dual stereo front facing speakers yeah which is the expandable storage that samsung doesn't have the headphone jack the led notification light like all these crazy enthusiast things. It's your boy.

I always used to say the Xperia ones are the R slash Android phone. Yeah, that's what's going to happen. We haven't uploaded the video yet as of the recording of this now, but this is where I expect people to care about this phone. Cool. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back.

We'll talk dancing robots. We'll come back. We'll talk dancing robots. This is an ad from BetterHelp. This holiday season, do something for a special person in your life. You. Give yourself the gift of better mental health. BetterHelp Online Therapy connects you with a qualified therapist via phone, video, or live chat. It's convenient and affordable and can be done from the comfort of your own home. Having someone to talk to is truly a gift, especially during the holidays. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve

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I did. I love these videos. Yeah. I gotta say. And it gets a mixed reaction in the studio. I have it here in the notes that I think Adam wrote, this is how the world ends. I'm not so down on these.

I'm kind of into the idea of like robots being able to do all sorts of crazy things. So I'm just going to describe the video real quick for those who are listening. Picture Spot, the Boston Dynamics robot that we've done a video with, with about a three-foot goose neck robot attachment. Yeah, the neck attachment one is the one that freaks me out the most. Yeah, it looks like it's a face on top of the robot on a neck. And then picture like seven of them all doing a choreographed dance extremely precisely, I might add, with like obviously very robotic movements, but also like a pretty good amount of rhythm. Yeah.

So yeah, good for them. This is like, I tweeted about this. I was like, this is a whole job. Yeah. Like it's somebody's job at Boston Dynamics to choreograph a dance. They get probably free access to like, I'm going to need seven robots this week and a Bluetooth speaker. I'm going to make something happen. Yeah.

And then they get to do it. What were your thoughts watching the video when we first saw it? I always, they're fun. They're definitely very fun. Yeah. I think they're equally scary. Come on. Look, if you've seen Black Mirror, okay,

like there's an episode, and they've referenced this before, where they have robotic dogs who are chasing down people in like a post-apocalyptic world. And I think the stuff that these robots can do is insane and like they have the humanoid ones too that dance and they're it's great they can do freaking like backflips the humanoid ones are a little creepy yeah a little but they're very robocop so here's why i'm not creeped out really by them is because i know that they are all programmed to do exactly what they're doing like when we go in to do a robot shot with Mia, like obviously Mia doesn't look like, it doesn't have these anthropomorphic features.

Like it doesn't have arms and legs, like spot the dog or like the upright one, whatever it's called, Atlas or whatever. Atlas, yeah. So it's Mia. So it just sits there holding a camera, but it only does exactly to the T what we just told it to do and only does it when we tell it to do it. Right. So even though it looks anthropomorphic, like a dog with a neck dancing in front of me in

synchronization, it would be very creepy if they decided to do that by themselves. But I know watching that, that a very skilled programmer is responsible for starting all the moves at the same time and building the moves so that it looks like they're doing it in sync. That's the most impressive part to me is someone had to decide like on beat, like how I'm going to make this robot move to make it look like it's dancing. So I see that. I'm like, wow, good for the program. Like, that's awesome. What I said in Slack is, will you be saying the same thing when it's dancing on your grave I just don't I see the move and I'm like wow that's very cool but there's there's no way

it does things it's not programmed to do and like that was a really funny Michael Reeves video we've talked about before where he like programmed it to like find a bucket and pee in it because it had like you know all these sensors you put attached to it. Like, that's funny.

But yeah, it only does what you're what it's. Yeah. I mean, I think like the the the dancing is fine. Right. The dancing is great. And I think that because they're so precise, like Michael even said, like, this is CG, right? Because their precision and their timing with each other is so exact that it almost feels

fake because human movement is so exact that it almost feels fake because human movement is so not perfect yeah if you've ever seen like synchronized uh swimmers or synchronized dancing or whatever there's always just a tiny little bit of yeah like in your subconscious we'll notice that yeah i wonder if they'd programmed a slight delay or a slight variance if that would have been more realistic looking i don't know if they want the realism though it's like it's like when spot is in his like default mode and he's doing the thing with his legs where he's just going back and forth it like doesn't feel right because it's too precise it's so precise yeah yeah i don't know i i i enjoy it and like i i think

these are great demos of like keep them in the news for sure yeah it keeps them in the news it's good PR and it's just it's just more friendly things that the robot can clearly do I think one of the things we were wondering about is like does Boston Dynamics have the biggest delta between how good their image can

be and how bad their image could be probably because you know once in a while you get a weird headline of like here's the police using a robot good their image can be and how bad their image could be. Probably. Because, you know, once in a while you get a weird headline of like, here's the police using a robot dog in New York City. And you're like, what? I've seen this robot dance. Now it's like guarding. Like, I don't like that.

Like, don't combine those things. So, yeah, I think they keep themselves in a pretty good eye. And it's clearly gets more capable every year. Like, if you you look if you scroll down on their youtube channel look at their old videos yeah they probably look like crap now they look rough yeah in the past then no pun intended that's a dog yeah uh so i'm happy for them yeah no i mean um and hyundai bought them now that's something i don't know if we talked about yet yeah that was the the last weird part of this. It was a BTS collab.

And I was trying to figure out why on earth they chose that. BTS, the band, the K-pop band, collabs with a bunch of other Korean tech companies all the time. They collab with Samsung all the time. Yeah, all the time. And so that was the connection is Hyundai is Korean. Hyundai just bought all of the company or a stake in it? I think all of it, if not probably a majority stakeholder. Yeah.

Which is kind of crazy because they were owned by Google for a while and then SoftBank bought them from Google and now SoftBank sold it to Hyundai. So now they're obviously pretty tight with Hyundai. They have 80%. Okay. So yeah, that's, so Hyundai is like, yeah, we'll do a BTS dance video with the robots. That's the natural thing we do to celebrate.

Because we live in the future now. Yeah. So. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. I just, okay. Just like, don't put guns on the dogs and then we'll be okay.

That's the only concern. I think there's a department at Boston Dynamics in charge of making sure no one does anything too crazy. Yeah, true. Yeah, for now. All right, well now we have some Patreon, some creator economy news to talk about. Now I like to think I'm pretty plugged into the creator economy. I've talked to a lot of fellow creators and obviously we have internal dialogue and discussions about this stuff all the time. But we have a note here that Jack Conte, the CEO of Patreon, right?

Creator of Patreon. Founded it. Did an interview with Neal Eye on the Decoder podcast. I haven't listened to it yet, but you have. But there are some notes about some things he brought up on the creator economy and stuff he talks about with the 30% Apple tax. Yeah. You want to break it down? Yeah.

So if you've been following the news, especially with Epic and Apple, basically Apple will take 30% of any transaction that is made through an app that is on their platform, basically. through an app that is on their platform, basically. And they got mad at Epic because Epic was trying to sell Fortnite skins with like a workaround way so that Apple didn't get the 30% cut. Apple says, well, we're providing both the service, the giant platform that basically created the entire app market.

And also we have all these like security and safety protocols involved to make sure that you're safe and you don't get malware and we have to protect our users. And that just kind of created this whole conversation on like, what do platforms,

like what are they owed? You know, Google takes like 30% as well. And so that kind of created this whole antitrust thing. And now, like we talked about earlier, Microsoft made a point. It was almost a dig at Apple with Windows 11 on the Windows Store saying,

we're not going to take any money if you have your own payment system. And now Facebook's doing the same thing. They just released their own newsletter service and they're doing a similar thing where like, until you make a certain amount of money, it's going to be, you're going to get all the revenue like so now it almost seems like people are competing for we're giving creators as much possible um like revenue from what they're making

as possible music to my ears yes yeah competition is good competition is good that's actually a main point that jack was making um in the decoder podcast was neil i was saying was talking about like this anti-trust stuff he's like what do you think about it and and jack was like well you can kind of see like as more platforms compete with each other to give creators more revenue because like creators are the content and content is king. And when you are providing all of the content for a service, like you think about Twitter, if Twitter didn't have users, it wouldn't be a product.

Yeah, I think about this all the time. We use the word platform. Yeah. And when I think of a physical platform, a platform is raised up above the rest. And so something being on that platform gives it a visibility it wouldn't have if it wasn up above the rest. And so something being on that platform gives it a visibility it wouldn't have if it wasn't on the platform.

And so if you think of something like Twitter, for example, as a platform, it's like, okay, yes, if I just want to share my thoughts about bacon, whatever, I could just write them and email them to a bunch of people and then hope they share that. And then, you know, it is what it is.

Maybe only five people read it. But if I tweet it, that platform could rise it to people searching for tweets about bacon or people who follow my account or people who share things with other enthusiasts about bacon. The point is the platform is a benefit to everyone on it. Yeah. is the platform is a benefit to everyone on it. Yeah. The other half of that is the platform is nothing without the stuff on it. Yeah.

So if you're Twitter, if no one tweets, it's not much of a platform. What is your service? Exactly. So you can build an amazing platform and discovery, but you need the content creators to actually complete the cycle and make this thing work. So yeah, YouTube is another huge example, which is like, if you want to make videos on the internet that people see, there is only really one place that you can guarantee the maximum number of people see it. And that's YouTube. And so YouTube's in this phenomenal spot where it's like, hey,

we are the reason people see your stuff. But on the other hand, creators of that content are the reason people see your stuff. Yeah. But on the other hand, creators of that content are the only reason YouTube got to where it is today. Yeah. So I think about that dynamic a lot. And I'm curious if, you know, how Patreon sort of fits in as a puzzle piece of that. Yeah, I think the dynamic has shifted a lot, first of all, because this idea of like creator economy didn't really used to be a thing. This idea that like everyone is a creator, everyone is unique, everyone is kind of a product. The words have been said a lot in the last year or two. Yeah, it's blown up a lot

because I think in the past, these services saw themselves as like, hey, we're a product, you're gonna use our product. And like the creators or people that have Twitter accounts are just using the product. But there wasn't this mindset shift of like, oh, the people on your platform are making the platform make you money, right? And so now, because more people are coming online, more people are becoming more creative and like trying to market themselves as creatives and drawing more people to the platform,

and drawing more people to the platform, more creatives are kind of like demanding, not demanding necessarily, but like needing more revenue from the things that they are helping, the service they are helping lift up, right? Like you said, if YouTube didn't have like these big channels, then they wouldn't really be a platform. But anyway, the whole Patreon thing,

really interesting because Patreon's been around for a very long time. Jack jack conti was very early to this and i've listened to like every interview that he's ever done i've listened i've like watched all his videos and he's been like beating this drum forever that like eventually we're gonna get to this point where everyone can make a living doing what they love because of scale because when you have the internet and you have like a thousand people that like love what you do they will give you a dollar a week which is very little for them like we have this idea of like subscription service and like over saturation slash anxiety with oh yeah youtube premium and like hbo max and like sure uh but

we're kind of tailoring our lives now to everything being a subscription service. The cool thing though, about. Are we doing that on purpose or is that just the way the world's shifting? I think it's just the way the world's shifting. I think there are benefits to it. It's like if you subscribe to a cable subscription before, but you only watch two channels, why are you paying $30 when you can pay $2? Right.

You know? So it's like. So you're sort of, you're pay $2? Right. You know? So it's like- So you're sort of, you're breaking down like more individualized subscriptions instead of just like, you know, instead of iCloud Plus or whatever it's called with 10 different services, I'm going to pay for just the two or three things I need. Right.

And I'm overall going to benefit more from paying less. Right. Right. Okay. But now if you're like a super fan of something, right? And you like, you want to, you just want to absorb and eat up everything that that creator is making whether it's music whether it's videos whether it's you know podcasts like anything you're able to throw a dollar five dollars at somebody so you allow a lot

yourself like a 300 budget for like subscription entertainment and it because of scale because the internet is so massive and you can allot so many fans so quickly as a creator even if only a thousand people you have a thousand core audience members which is fairly easy to get now right like in the past that was very difficult now it's pretty easy to get a thousand people to give you one dollar like a month or a week interesting yeah you can like make your living you can exist as a human because everyone is trading money around in micro doses right all right let's take a quick break we'll come back and keep chatting support for the show today comes from netsuiteuite. Anxious about where the economy is headed?

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business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. The first thing you need to know about the sphere in Las Vegas is don't call it that. It's sphere, not the sphere. Lose the the.

But everyone calls it The Sphere, so we will too. The Sphere opened just over a year ago. They said it would be the future of entertainment, and some people go and really do feel that way. and some people go and really do feel that way. But others, including those of us that today explained, are wondering if this whole operation is sustainable. So on the show, we're taking a look back at one year of the sphere, from Bono to Fish to Dedinko to the Eagles to that documentary that Darren Aronofsky made to the upcoming EDM New Year's Eve rave that they're throwing,

and we're going to ask whether this really could be the future of fun Darren Aronofsky made to the upcoming EDM New Year's Eve rave that they're throwing. And we're going to ask whether this really could be the future of fun or whether it's maybe just another Las Vegas bust. Today Explained, wherever you listen, come find us. I think that, yeah, the fact that we see so many more subscriptions out there now is probably a big reason for this. Like I think Jack probably seemed pretty early because back then it was like if I pay $10 a month for Netflix, why would I give any one person $5 a month? How could they possibly create that much value for me when Netflix is $10 a month, right? But now there's so many different things that we pay a subscription fee for, not just cable, but like I pay for YouTube TV. I also pay for YouTube Premium.

I also pay for Spotify. That's like $9, $10 a month. I also pay for this and that. And there's like all these different subscriptions that I think deliver their value basically per month. And a lot of those may be creators whose YouTube channels I've subscribed to and have joined the club on. And I like, I pay them a couple bucks a month and that's

because I'm not just supporting them, but I'm getting more out of it. And so now there are so many subscriptions happening that it's a more natural reaction to be totally willing to pay one to $5 a month to an individual because we're just doing that all the time now yeah so yeah that 300 bucks a month budget probably seemed a little high back in the day today probably seems pretty reasonable because if you break it down like in the past like a lot of that was going towards your cable bill and you only use two of those channels and if you can break down everything into just like micro paymentsayments, you're going to still be paying a similar amount of money, but it's just more tailored to you. There's a more personal like I am helping this creator make a living.

Like it feels very personal. There's a connection there. There's a connection there. And also I think people are starting to realize like coffee costs $5 and I get that every day, you know, and it's like true. What is the value of one cup of like just not getting a coffee one day and then i can pay five creators that's yeah it's so funny when you don't when you like compare the value of things like if i pay 10 bucks a month for netflix and i pay how much if you if you buy a five dollar coffee twice a week every month that's 40 that's that's a lot more than oh yeah Oh, yeah. What am I getting out of this coffee? It's a lot more, exactly.

So, yeah, maybe Netflix seems underpriced now instead of overpriced. Yeah. The point is, yeah, we, the creator economy thing, I think, you know, I've, I don't really talk about it that much. But I feel like the scale of things, the way they've ballooned over time makes things like YouTube feel more like a fabric that we exist in rather than like a structure of a platform where now, uh, yeah, anyone who shares something that they love or something that they make can accumulate enough people who will just be within this fabric and drawn to that thing that they can eventually make that what they do. And that's it. Like before, like TV, super structured to me.

Like there are channels and there are shows and there are ad slots that support the channels and the shows and everything is very much like- What's on is on. It's built a certain way, yeah. And if you want to be a TV news anchor and that's what you wanna do, then there's a path you follow.

And then if you land here at this company, then you can be part of this structure. Where on YouTube, it's like, I don't really have to pick a channel or pick a news network. I can just do what I want to do. And this fabric will sort of find you instead of being siloed into these things. So we're all kind of connected in that way. Just reachability too. Like remember when Gangnam Style hit, it was the first billion dollar view video. Billion views, yep.

Sorry, not billion dollar view. First video with a billion views. And it was fast too. It was like a month or two. But when that happened, all the headlines were like, oh my gosh, a video on the internet can get a billion views how many videos have a billion views now a lot a lot because you've got this like growing like there's a lot of kids now that are just very online and they like they use youtube as their

main entertainment source and like you said it's become almost a fabric of society and i was thinking about this the other day like twitter now is part of the fabric of society. And I was thinking about this the other day, like Twitter now is part of the fabric of society. Like there are major, like nations make statements on Twitter that can affect global geopolitics and like all this stuff. Yeah. Crypto. Crypto.

Okay. But bringing it back to the point of this new story, the point of the decoder episode that kind of like made the reason this made headlines was that, okay, so Patreon is a very old platform, right? It's been around for a very long time. It was like really early YouTube is like when Patreon got started. And the cool thing is like Patreon got started just a little background because Jack Conte and his wife are musicians. And I watched their videos.

Yeah. They're on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. And they wanted to fund their band they wanted their band to be like their full time thing but they were like how do we do this and Jack had created

this music video that he put his like blood sweat and tears into he spent all of his money in his bank account to make this music video where he was like inside the Millennium Falcon like he built a cockpit in his garage all of this stuff and he was just like this is so unsustainable cause I got he got a cockpit in his garage all of this stuff and he was just like this is so unsustainable because I got he got a million views on YouTube with that video which is amazing but

he got like three hundred dollars in revenue and he spent multiple thousands so he was like I want to do music full-time how do I do this and he came up with this idea of creator economy that it's he was so early to it but the point, he was so early and it was very early in YouTube that when you sign up for a Patreon page, you're not generally in the Patreon app doing discovery. Because a lot of the reason that Apple or Google says you owe us 30% is because they're creating the discovery platform, whereas Patreon is such a different thing because when you subscribe to a Patreon account, it's not discovery-based. You already know that you really like this creator.

You're willing to give them $3, $5, $10 a month because you want to see extra content from them. You want to have that personal relationship with them. And that's the only reason you're on that site right now. Exactly. It's not a discovery-based platform at all. It's like, I love this person. I want to give them my money. And so because of that, generally people sign up for Patreon accounts on the web. And so you would go on a website, you go to the specific Patreon page and you would say,

hey, I'm going to sign up. I'm going to give you $5 a month. Now, they do have an app, obviously. of you five dollars a month now the they do have an app obviously um but what neil i asked him was like so is apple taking 30 of every patreon subscription because like you know if people like sign up in the app and uh because there was this whole battle with Spotify and Netflix, Spotify and Netflix, for a bit Spotify offered, hey, if you sign up for our account in the app, it's $12.99 a month. If you sign up on Spotify.com, it's $9.99 a month. Literally that's the difference. And Netflix, I believe, you still can't sign up for a Netflix account in the Netflix app.

You have to go on the web. Right. For that reason. So, Nilay was like, is Apple taking 30%? Like, how are you getting around that? And he was like, no. And so, Nilay was like, that's weird. Like, why haven't they come after you yet? Because there's actually this other platform that is similar to Patreon where Apple did go after them recently and they're a very small company.

So it's kind of weird that like Patreon hasn't been hit with this yet. Jack Conte has, I don't know if he's ready to face that legal challenge. Like when Nilay brought it up, he seemed like a bit like, I don't, that's not really something I want to deal with because I just want to like help people make money.

Right. Um, so, so yeah, it's interesting and it's basically going to be this thing of like, how hard is, is Apple going to crack down on all platforms, you know? Gotcha. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think part of what we were saying too about that is like, okay, Patreon is not necessarily a discovery platform.

This is something people are talking about with OnlyFans too. It's like when you get to OnlyFans, someone else funneled you there. It's not like you're, I guess, I don't know. But I'm imagining people aren't browsing around OnlyFans looking for things. They're not browsing around Patreon finding things. It's because someone sent them to their Patreon. So I wonder if the ideal future of something like Patreon is actually being more a part of the fabric of this discovery that we have on YouTube, for example. Now, I don't know if they ever want to be part of YouTube, but wouldn't it be ideal

if you could say, hey, if you would like to support what I do, there's a there's a couple of buttons right below this video for you to just immediately like become a member. Obviously, YouTube has channel memberships already. But if you could really be off, though, never really took off. And I don't I don't know if there's any good reason for it, because it's kind of the same thing. You've put tiers in now, different price levels, different rewards. kind of the same thing. They've put tiers in now, different price levels,

different rewards, but it's the same thing where it's like you can be a part of that discovery because YouTube will send you places based on where it thinks you want to go. And then when you arrive there, you'll have someone going, hey, if you like more of what I do,

you can get more. You can support me here. Yeah, yeah. That seems like actually an ideal future. I don't really know. I didn't take off yet. Strange. Patreon specifically at the very end of the podcast, he mentioned that they specifically Seems like actually an ideal future for Patreon. I don't really know why it didn't take off. Yeah, it's strange. Patreon specifically, at the very end of the podcast,

he mentioned that they specifically don't really want, they don't want to be a platform. I think that's the difference is that like he said, they're not a discovery platform. They want to be like just a way for creators to get paid. And because of that, they don't actually host content. They don't host video. They don't host like a mail delivery service.

They specifically partner with these other platforms, these other services that creators are already using. When you have Patreon-exclusive video content, it's hosted through a Vimeo plugin. When you have Patreon-exclusive music, it's hosted through a SoundCloud plugin. When you have Patreon exclusive music, it's hosted through like a SoundCloud plugin. Got it. When you have Patreon exclusive email lists, it's hosted through a MailChimp plugin. Like they do not really host content. They're just a way for people to get paid. And they wanted to do that specifically because it's as soon as you start hosting content that all of this stuff gets murky,

right? There's the reason that like there's all that um there's a lot of discussion that like twitter needs to be uh held accountable for what its users post and that whole like section the legal part yeah yeah yeah that's the whole thing and so i think they're just trying to avoid that because they're just like we really just want people to get paid yeah i also think they might be incentivized if if that was a part of their like new business that say, Oh, we'll do exclusive content built into Patreon. It would actually be good for their business to shuffle people around and discover other Patreon things that they can also subscribe to. Yeah. So you'd want people to, you eventually become a site that wants people to stay on Patreon

as long as possible to make Patreon as much money as possible because you're going and bouncing around to different creators on Patreon rather than just like this very direct relationship between the creator and one Patreon site. Yeah. I do think they understand that it's very difficult to be like, you might like this person. Do you want to give them a monthly fee of $5? Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. Like we grew up in this era where like as soon as the iPhone and the like iPod Touch came out, most apps were free. So our generation is not used to paying for online content. The music thing is the number one is like the biggest shift I've seen. I remember back in the day on iTunes, it was like a new album comes out and it's like, all right, the whole album is 10 bucks, but I only like three songs from the album.

I'm going to buy these three songs for 99 cents each and they're in my library. And I make the tough choice of never listening to any of the rest of those songs again. Which is a horrible idea, by the way. Yeah. Oftentimes the songs you hate the most end up being the best songs on the album. That's true. But now, like, if you bring that up to like my, know teenage cousins they're like you paid for one song right are you kidding you paid a dollar yeah and so like now they're just so used to being subscribed to

Apple Music subscribe to Spotify where you have access to a library for a fee and that's the service you get for paying every month and the second you stop paying guess what nothing is available to you. And that's totally fine. And that's a version that everyone is just basically accepted at this point. So yeah, I think we're just kind of building off of that like new philosophy of like, yeah, this service provides value to me. And the second it doesn't anymore, I can just not have it anymore.

Which I think is a good way forward. There are a lot of people that are very against not owning what you, what you view, what you listen to. I totally, totally understand that as well. But in this world that is moving, like so internet focused that you don't really need an office and a lot of, for a lot of jobs anymore, you can live anywhere you want. Just being able to have as much stuff digital as possible so that you don't have as much physical weighing you down, I think is a great thing. Yeah.

Here's a random question to tie this up for a subscription mindset. Yeah. I was going to phrase it one way. I'm just going to go to the extreme. Okay. Would you pay a subscription for access to your car so instead of buying your car would you pay 25 a month for a tesla model 3 you mean a lease it's less than a lease because you're

just paying for access to it yeah it'd probably more it would be way more than 25 a month let's say let's say 200 bucks a month for access to the car. And the second that you don't pay it anymore, you don't have it, but you can cancel at any time. Yeah. You also have to pay insurance. Would that be worth it to you? A thousand percent.

I, I mean, personally, for people who know me, I have major commitment issues. So even getting an apartment was like extremely stressful for me because I love the idea of just like one day I'm like, you know what? Today I want to live in Iceland. Oh, so it's an advantage for you to not have to own it. Oh, yeah. Oh, I see. Owning big physical things is scary.

Because I was going to say like you own the car. Would you pay 20 bucks a month for autopilot? And if you ever stop paying, you don't have it anymore. And that's what they're going to do. That's what they what they're gonna do and people really don't like that it's like i own my car it has software on it i own the car i use the software period yeah don't make me pay over and over again for the thing i already own and bought from you but yeah if you just take it all the way to the extreme of like well you don't own your car but you can use it like you own it until you stop paying yeah that would be fine i'd be fine with not owning my car i don't

think a lot of people would i don't think anyone everyone would the autopilot thing it again it's going to depend on i know this is a little like we're going over here but this is like a little bit like autopilot right now costs ten thousand dollars yep if they made it 30 bucks a month you're basically weighing like how long do i think i am going to have this car is this a bet is it a better deal for me to have it temporarily yeah will it affect the resale value all this it's it's a math thing but i i do think that a lot of people are okay with like paying very little amounts monthly instead of paying a lot now and then having this physical burden on them yeah yeah makes sense so anyway all right well i think

that's a good place to end it we sort of talked about a spectrum of things we hit the boston dynamics thing we hit xperia 1 mark 3 we talked windows 11 yeah that's actually a lot of topics it is kind of a solid variety i didn't really have very good segues today because they're just not really related in any good ways. But David, thanks for joining me on the podcast. If you want to find other things David does, where should they find you? Well, my Twitter is at DerbitML on Twitter. That's pretty much my main platform

where I say a lot of things. It's part of the fabric of your existence. The fabric of my personality. Obviously, you can also find things I do on here. And then davidml.com is my website. But, you know, I update that every now and then. Word. You'll be back for sure.

Yes. Awesome. All right. Thanks for listening. Thanks for subscribing on the Waveform YouTube channel. If you haven't already and if you leave any comments, make sure you leave suggestions for things we should talk about

or even do in future episodes. That's been it. Thanks for watching. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina. We are partnered with Studio 71 and our intro outro music is produced by Vain Sil.