Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Streamers Aren't Happy with Twitch and Subaru Fails to Impress

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

Marques is back! Fresh from the Met Gala, Marques and Andrew spend the first few minutes recapping the experience before diving right into the potential new Twitch revenue sharing and why streamers aren't too happy with it. Then they dig into the Subaru Solterra and some other EV news. We finish off the episode by answering trivia questions so make sure you stick around to find out the answers. Links: Nilay Patel and Jim Farley interview Ford F100 video Vogue interview with Marques Tesla article about bonuses Twitters: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/adamlukas17 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ Shop the merch: shop.mkbhd.com Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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we're your hosts i'm marquez and i'm'm Andrew and I'm fresh back from the Met Gala Yeah, all three hours of sleep. I got we're great and today's episode. We got a whole bunch of stuff We're gonna talk about the full specs of the Subaru Solterra just because they're conversation worthy. I think yeah, that's a nice way of putting it Yeah, but there's also some twitch rumors floating around that might be very consequential to twitch partners and also we have some updates on the f-150 lightning and i also have some some future stuff we want to talk about but then we'll always wrap up with some trivia like we have always not always done but like we've started doing and i think it's super fun but i also think like you can't just throw the metcal out there and not like elaborate a little bit that that's a flex you You know what? Sure.

Let's just go. That'll be my story time for this episode. Let's do it. We've done so much tech stuff. But yeah, I was at the Met Gala on May 2nd, which was pretty fish out of water, as I would describe it. So the way it was sort of broken down is the Met Gala, for those who are unfamiliar, is a sort of fashion event fundraiser in New York City. Yeah. But it's become like the Super Bowl of fashion events, basically.

So anytime you see it happen, basically, I don't really follow the fashion world that much. And then once in a while on Twitter, I see everyone's craziest outfits. And I'm like, oh, the Met Gala happened. And that's like once per year, basically. They took a year off after the pandemic. Then there was a couple of months ago they did a pre-Met Gala or something like that. But then we're back in 2022. And like two weeks before, I got an email from Derek Blasberg.

He's the head of fashion at Google and YouTube. And was like, hey, do you want to go to the Met Gala? I was like, oh, yeah, maybe. Sure, I guess that sounds fun. I looked up in the past, like, have YouTubers gone to the Met Gala before? And there have started to be a few. It's kind of like actually kind of related to Apple events. Remember the earliest days of Apple events where there actually weren't any

youtubers at them yeah and i was actually the first youtuber that was invited to an apple launch event and now not to take credit but now they've realized that that's a good idea and now there are youtubers at every tech event especially with apple events there's tons of us there um so i looked it up there have been a couple of youtubers in the past that have gone to met galas typically though they're in the fashion industry so as a tech creator i was a little bit confused i started reaching out to some youtube friends like did you get a email about a met gala did you get an email i started nobody else had gotten one but But I texted Mark Rober. Mark Rober also got an invite.

And we were both a little confused about if we should go or not. But we did both decide to go. We were like, we'll be fish out of water together. We'll just go do the thing. Works better that way, yeah. Yeah.

So we had each other's back. It was very interesting, as you can imagine, an event like that would be. I will say, Derek is clearly a legend. I didn't know what I was getting myself into, but if I could do my first Met Gala all over again, I would not rather have any other host than Derek Blasberg.

So he walks into the place and literally, immediately, it was like his birthday the week before, and people are like, oh, it's Derek. What's up, man? Happy birthday. Good to see you. I think we got to the red carpet, which is how everyone gets into the event. And I think I stepped out of our van for 15 seconds.

And immediately, Hugh Jackman's like, Derek, man, what's going on? Shakes his hand. He shakes my hand. hand hi I'm Hugh hi Hugh I'm Marquez like I know who you are yeah I know but um you know there's there's all the who's who's of I guess fashion and you see celebrity and musicians and things like that and there's a theme and everybody wears an outfit according to the theme um which was a little bit interesting I think people saw the theme which was gilded fashion something american american fashion i think people saw the word gilded and thought oh

you need to have gold that's not what the theme was the theme was it was from the gilded age of fashion which was this golden age of like new wealth coming to the u.s this is like the the early 19th century mid-19th century and then yeah there's like an extra like american on top of it look at the fashion icon over here well i was educated on this podcast is going to be a fashion podcast and he auto is going to take my space yeah no this this was i'm i don't know if i'll ever go back to another med gala but this was quite an experience i'll remember for a long time lots of of people are like, who did you meet? Who was the cool outfits? I met a lot of people.

A lot of them were very nice. My number one thing that I think I'll take away from going to the Met were number one, I realize everyone how tall and short everyone is because on TV and like in acting and music videos, I guess I never really think too hard about the context of like, oh, Venus Williams is super tall. I didn't know that. I looked it up after she walked by me.

On Google, it said she's 6'1". I don't believe that. Either she's like 6'3", and wearing huge heels, or she's like 6'6". Wow. Because she is definitely taller than me. Erykah Badu is very tall.

Hillary Clinton's not very tall. Hugh Jackman's not the tallest, right? Hugh Jackman's tall. Okay. I think he's my height. Was he? Okay. Yeah. So that was the one thing I got out of it.

And then I got that, you know, Derek knows everyone. Hillary Clinton walks up to him. Derek, happy birthday, man. Katy Perry. Derek, happy birthday. Literally everyone we walked by. We were walking in the streets of new york city after the after after the met to one of the like instagram after parties and literally a car

driving by on fifth avenue window rolls down derrick man how's it going so that was my met galley experience at the instagram after party where all the celebrities wondering why there's no ipad app no that wasn't the topic of conversation it was it no there wasn't really any any sort of string of there was very little tech to talk about i'll put it that way i i do have to say you said that might be your last event i vote you keep going if you're invited until you meet taylor swift and then you know i'll give you then you're allowed to stop going fair okay all right that's that's fair i'll keep thank you, then you're allowed to stop going. Fair. Okay. All right. That's fair. I'll keep going. Thank you. I appreciate it.

I'll go, I'll definitely go if Mark goes again. I think we had a good, you know, eye opening time. So shout out to Mark Rober. Also, we sort of, we suited up. Obviously I wear a tux. I posted the picture about how it was matte black everything. I got so much heat about how the shoes didn't look matte black. I'll tell you in the photo, they didn't look matte black because compared to fabric, you know, matte black leather doesn't look as matte black as fabric.

But the shoes were matte black. And to prove it, look at me in any picture with anyone else's shoes and their shoes are way shinier. I posted a separate, I'll put a separate picture up of the shoes. They're matte black leather, just so you know. This is very important. The lights just hit different. I just have to be sure we're on the same page. Marquez doesn't lie. So matte black bow tie, matte black shirt, matte black jacket.

For anyone who thinks he changed just for the Met Gala, he did not. They're matte black. I'm still the Marquez you know. You know me. Blood runs thick. Yeah, it's not going anywhere. Actually, here's the funny part. So Anna Winter is the, she runs the event and she runs Vogue.

And so the Met Gala, everyone who goes is hand approved by her. And as I did the suit tailoring and fitting, they had to send a picture of my fit to her for approval. I did the fitting in a white shirt and a white bow tie. And, you know, they're like, oh, yeah yeah we have to get your cuff length you know a quarter of an inch we can't be sending a gentleman out there with a half an inch of cuff showing and i will not accept that that's not gonna work so like i go you know i get the the length all set right they pin everything down they send the picture so when i get the email like yep you know your your covid tests are negative your id went went through. Everything's good. And Anna Wintour approved your exact fit.

So we suggest you wear that. But we'll include the black versions just in case. Okay. And so on my way there, I'm Googling it like, what is white tie? Like, how flexible is this? Am I allowed to wear all black? And I convinced myself, like, I got to go matte black everything. I just have to.

So I wore the black tie. And you did it? Black shirt. That was it. Okay. So matte black everything is Vogue approved is what I'm seeing. It's Anna Wintour approved. everything i just i have to so i wore the black tie you did a black shirt that was it so so matt black everything's is vogue approved is what i'm seeing it's anna winter approved well i did shake her hand but like she never approved the black version she approved the black and white version but i just everyone was wearing black and white so i had to do my thing you know you did it but

i didn't get kicked out so we'll see if i get invited back that's the mad gala and you wore an apple watch i did that's the other Gala. And you wore an Apple watch. I did. Did you? I wanted to ask you. I forgot. It was really funny. So Mark Rober had this incredible watch with this like planetary system and these amazing complications.

I don't know if he would even let me say how much that watch costs. It's like one of 10 in the world. It's 17. It's six digits. Did you look it up? You know how much it costs? I did not look. I don't know how much it costs.

I just know how rare it is. When we left the Met, he took it off and put it in his pocket. I'll put it that way. I had the black Apple Watch on. I was like, I got to get the MKBHD band going, so at least I'm wearing me or something like that. But yeah, I had an Apple Watch on. Wow.

Yeah. Hit that. Yeah. And shook Anna Wintour's hand. So take that, Kevin O'Leary. You're not going back to the Met Gala? What are you going to do about that, Kevin? No, it was a good time.

That's awesome. Want to talk about Twitch? Yeah, I don't know how I segue Met Gala to Twitch, so there it is. Yeah. Yeah, I, you know, if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, I love talking about live streaming.

And we've talked about it a lot because I while we always talk about YouTube kind of being like the end all be all, at least for now or in the foreseeable future, their video on demand. Like no one's beating them. We've talked about Vimeo. They're not doing great. Twitch right now is generous while is being is like the mainstay live stream platform i think there's room for that to be taken over definitely i think youtube's a huge competitor there um which i'm going to get into a little later but that's why i think i find this so interesting um so bloomberg leaked a some changes twitch is considering making to its partnership program

the way you monetize on twitch is if you get enough viewers, there's some metrics you can hit that you get something called the affiliate program, which enables your sub button. If you're unaware with Twitch, subbing on Twitch is a little different than on YouTube. It's more like the membership platform on YouTube where you pay money. Yeah. And then you get like ad freeze on that channel. You get some emotes and stuff like that. like ad freeze on that channel you get some uh emotes and stuff like that um so you you unlock your sub button at affiliate and you do a 50 50 revenue split with them that's the only way you

make money at a certain point if you can get far enough you can get personally sponsored or partnered excuse me with twitch that gets a little different there's negotiations in there there's rumors of people maybe like shroud ninja people uh tim the tat man you know those those high high streamers getting up to like 70 30 splits like really really good change your revenue split if you get big enough because you're important enough to them you negotiate it in the contract um all right so these changes i'll just go over them one by one here and we can talk about each of them um just these are considered changes not finalized but incentives for more ads so like more ad breaks during the live stream play more ads new revenue split 70 down to 50 that's a massive number if so it was 70 by default i don't

think by default but i think there are plenty of people who are up at the 70% range in the partnership. Back down to 50? Back to 50, which is the default affiliate range. Anybody who can hit a certain amount of viewers can get to there. A new tier system and no more exclusivity. So, I mean, I saw this around. In the tech world, you know,

we look at gaming and everything a lot all every single live streamer i followed tweeted about this because for live streamers on twitch some of these are terrifying i would say um let's just start with revenue split 70 to 50 because like 20 and literally anything is a giant yeah giant jump so for for the people who were at the 70 percent tier it's just a pay cut it's a big pay cut um when you're i i do believe though if you had your contract already like you're probably they're probably gonna have to go through that contract um so i don't know when these changes might happen if they do happen um but a 20 pay decrease is gigantic that sounds like a company that's struggling to make money.

And when you saw like the other stuff, like incentives for more ads, which we want to talk about more, like YouTube's done the same thing. YouTube has allowed more mid-rolls. Like they used to have a 10 minute video before you needed to, if you wanted to enable mid-rolls in a video,

the video had to be at least 10 minutes long. They moved that to eight minutes. And they also automatically checked the box on new eight minute plus uploads to just automatically add mid-rolls so youtube's been through this where they're like hmm okay we need to make more money here's what we're gonna do so incentivizing more ads isn't new we've seen it before it works i'm not shocked that twitch is gonna try to do that yeah the revenue split cut sounds like okay we really need to find some money somewhere is twitch struggling that much i don't know so i have two i i think the biggest reason when i first read this is if you'll remember the that revenue split counts with amazon prime subs which is if you have

amazon prime you get one free sub every month and the creators still get the full revenue split from that. Even though the person's not paying anything, it's like they're paying $5 to the creator. So if someone has Amazon Prime, they are given one free sub per month. Every month. When they sub to you, the creator will still get the split

of what you were supposed to get paid if they paid full price. And then Twitch gets zero. Well, yeah, I guess ultimately Twitch gets zero. They get 30% of their money that they gave out already, I guess. So I think that, and now if we can connect that to the incentive for more ads, that would be my guess as to why this is becoming an issue. They want to still have creators make up that 20% difference. So they're going to have, assuming some sort of incentive, obviously, to run more ads because

they want the creators to make more money to make up for that. But they obviously were not making money off of free subscriptions. Now, there's obviously people doing regular subscriptions. There's some benefits and there's tier systems to do bigger subscriptions. Now there's obviously people doing regular subscriptions. There's some benefits and there's tier systems to do bigger subscriptions. But I mean, there are a lot of Amazon Prime members out there and there are a lot of Amazon Prime subs. If you watch a popular streamer, they'll constantly be like, thanks for the Prime sub. Thanks for the Prime sub. Like, oh, does it tell you when it's a Prime sub or the person's one? Their alerts, depending on what their alerts are are but you will see a lot of people specifically mention prime subs and i think the reason they mention it is because

some people still don't know that they have prime subs so if they say it somebody might ask that's smart there's a whole meme of ninja like creating this selling point of like what a prime sub was because he would constantly say it during his streams all the time and then that's why he got to a point where he had hundreds of thousands of subs yeah um now the biggest issue though and what i see a lot of people complaining about with the incentive for more ads is like twitch has kind of been pushing ads towards the creators recently um i think within the last year they created a rule it used to just be ads would play pre-roll. And then once you got into it, the creators basically had their chances for ad breaks and could send them whenever.

Now you have to run at least one minute of ads per hour of streaming. You have to, I believe that's just for partners, but an hour or one minute of ads for an hour of streaming. Now that doesn't sound that bad, but there are a lot of streamers who hate that, like absolutely hate that. Some of the, some of them are just doing so well and they do well on subs. Like they don't care about ad mid rolls or like the money from ads. So they don't really run them at all. And to them, it's like, it's interrupting this part of a live broadcast. And when you're doing things live, a lot of times you're doing them that, know that content is lasting more than an hour you're not just playing games or it's like 20

minute game i could queue up run an ad mid-roll you're not going to miss anything so those ads coming in are potentially like popping up at the worst times and you could be like literally missing content that's happening on the live stream um and that's just like it's a terrible user experience i totally get why twitch would want to do that because they need to make more money but that's a bad user experience and bad partner experience yeah it's in twitch's best interest to try to get people used to ads and i've always been on the same side like ads are not a good experience i don't like watching ads i don't like getting interrupted with a double unskippable pre-roll or mid-roll or something like that.

So if I can avoid serving those ads, I will also avoid that because I don't want to give people that bad experience. But yeah, it's in Twitch's best interest to make it, to normalize it, to normalize ads and make people cool with like, yeah, there's going to be a one minute mid-roll. It's been an hour.

Like that's just going to happen sometimes. So I get, I kind of see both sides of it. This also kind of reminded me of, I saw this headline recently. I just pulled it back up. Tesla cancels employee bonuses tied to delivery quotas, raises salaries to compensate. So it's like, you might net the same,

but they remove the structure of one version of getting paid and replace it with another. So if they twitch wants people to run ads more they'll just go hey your revenue split is lower guess what run more ads that that almost feels like the opposite of what you just said though because like in a sale salesforce like hitting quotas true you don't want people to hit yeah yeah this this feels like they're trying to go from like hey you're salaried with your subs. We're cutting that. Cutting your salary, but sell more cars. Yeah, usually it's the other way.

I appreciate the Tesla version of that way better than this. I have a couple of tweets real quick from a few streamers who mentioned this and actually a pretty good argument on the same side. Hassan, who is like within the last two years, probably one of the biggest creators on the platform. He streams like 10 hours a day. I think he, during COVID, streamed 365 days straight or something like that.

Dude, people ask me why I don't stream on Twitch. Like, it is a different skill. It is. It's a different breed. It's crazy what you have to do. Which is why, but again, that's why ads are so much different on there. Because, like, you're keeping people entertained for these long amounts of times while you're on yeah running those ads are interrupting things where when we do mid-rolls like we can be like oh this video has a natural break in it and we can figure that

out later and put it in and it works yeah um so hasan said when i negotiated my contract i knew this was coming and wanted to lock in one minute of ads per hour this ad density is the lowest out of the top streamers twitch still serves pre-rolls because it wasn't three minutes love twitch but it seems like they're moving away from cc to fix their profits um which then again even just reading that it makes it seem like this leak is probably going to happen if he seems to know that something like that was happening before um his contract negotiation and And then Pokimane, who I think everyone knows Pokimane's name. She's been a huge Twitch streamer forever.

Twitch should implement ads that don't directly interfere with a stream, sidebar, picture-in-picture, underlay. I understand advertisers are essential to making a platform profitable, but interviewing with the viewer's experience isn't how they go about it. So Twitch doesn't have like pop-up or banner ads

or any of the other types of ads at all? They might have some banner ads on the homepage, but I don't think on a streamer's profile. Wow. That's actually a huge difference because on YouTube, that's been a thing forever where I, I literally up until like two years ago, never ran a single mid-roll. I was like, well, we've got the ads that pop up. We've got the ads on the side. The channel is self sustaining. We're not hiring. Like we don't need to do mid-rolls yeah and like that was fine they just ran themselves like that so that's interesting and i'm kind of surprised twitch doesn't just pop up on the top of the chat just like a a big square ad that credits the creator the same way not i agree but uh linus slipped into these comments and actually has a pretty good rebuttal to it um those ads are

barely profitable as for a text based site. That's pretty much worthless since 2010, unless you can pretty much guarantee the viewer can't ignore it. It does nothing for the advert or advertiser. So why would they pay for it? I think that's pretty reasonable. Although I like the idea of potentially if the sidebar covered up the chat when it happened, it bumps down the chat. It just covered up the chat when it happened it bumps down the chat it just appears

above the chat and even if it fully went over the chat it's still interfering with the stream itself but not the actual content maybe it's interfering with like some reactions but if that's only a minute long like that's way better than completely blanking out video it's the same way like uh youtube has ads that pop up over the bottom of the video and you can x out of them like yes it's interrupting literally the video imagine being in a theater and an ad pops up over the movie like that would never happen so yeah it's interrupting but not it's it's still an ad that's credited to that viewer and you're targeting that channel yeah still seems pretty good maybe there's a bigger difference in like tech savviness of the average twitch viewer versus the average YouTube viewer.

Yeah. And I do agree with Linus as to like, if you, if it pops up on the side and I'm watching, I can just completely ignore it. And why would like, you're not going to pay the big bucks for that. You want to make sure it's something. I do know Twitch has done some things in the past where they, they're called bounties, where it's almost like twitch can help streamers find sponsored integrations throughout and i wonder if they'll do more stuff like that because

that seems like an actual good idea where it doesn't interrupt content quite as much kind of changes the content event but if you like a streamer and their personality usually you're having a good time and something like that um my last quick thing here, exclusivity part of it feels crazy. So what is that? What is that? Eliminating. So like if you're a Twitch partner, you have to,

you're streaming on Twitch. You're only allowed to live stream on Twitch. Okay. You still have YouTube vibes. Almost every single Twitch streamer does. But if you're not exclusive, that means there's plenty of platforms out there or programs where you can multi stream. So you could stream to Twitch and to YouTube at the same time and broaden your audience.

And they obviously didn't want to do that because YouTube is a competitor. But no exclusivity means now you can do stuff like that. That feels very strange. It is kind of cool. I'll be interested to see how it goes. I wonder if it could ever pull users away from the platform. I mean, YouTube's clearly taken aim at some of the big streamers. They have TimTheTatman, Valkray, Courage.

Ludwig's a huge one that they just brought over. He just did an interview with Susan recently. YouTube's clearly gunning for things. I don't think I'm even going to get on the topic of what I think YouTube can do and what's going on over there I hope eventually we can get deeper into that but like YouTube's coming for them Twitch is making mistakes all the time I think this battle's getting closer and closer I think there's some holes in the armor I think that's a good thing I think the competition is going to make like the fact that the competition is making it better for streamers like, hey, you can there's no more exclusives now. And hey, you can do you can try YouTube at the same time if you want to.

And all these things are making it a better overall experience wouldn't happen if YouTube wasn't competing. Yeah. But there's also a 20 percent revenue split cut drop. I almost wonder if the exclusivity thing was like, hey, we know this sucks. I almost wonder if the exclusivity thing was like, hey, we know this sucks. Maybe you can go make that 20% on YouTube with 20% of your viewers or something like that. Okay. I want to pin this for later, but I also keep thinking in the back of my head, like, what is harder?

Entertaining for 10 hours straight live or spending 10 hours on a video that's only five minutes long that you then upload and entertain someone for five minutes straight i don't think there needs to be there probably isn't one that's harder or the other there are people who are good at different things very different skill very different skill i think there are people who live stream that would have a really hard time focusing and polishing something down to 10 minutes i think there's people who can hyper focus on something that would be like 90 of their live stream would be like dead space yeah imagine me trying to talk about like the new do it s22 ultra let's test an hour let's test can you imagine can we just do a day where we come into work and you live stream the entire day and you have to entertain woof i have to switch it up at some point. We're going to take a quick break, but I think right before that, we have a trivia question.

It's my new favorite thing. The Rivian R1T won the Motor Trend Truck of the Year for 2022. Which truck won in 2021? Truck of the Year 2021. That's a good question. All right. Yeah. We'll be right back.

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You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that thing you love, keep doing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. All right, welcome back to the new EV section of the Waveform podcast, henceforth known as the Waveform section.

Henceforth known as just pretty much the Waveform podcast. Yeah, well, we've done this before. There's a new EV, and this time it's from Subaru were looking for you were looking forward to this because you've been following subaru's releases yeah new is like we've known about it and they've teased it forever and like we've seen it and it's slowly grown up and there's been rumors but now we have it all we knew subaru was going to come out with a solterra that it would be an electric vehicle that it would be a sort of a crossover-sized thing. And we were just waiting for, like, release date, spec.

That's sort of the big end price, the three big ones. And we did finally get those things. So what do we do first? The price. Let's just start with the price. Cry. Spoiler alert. Foreshadowing, yeah.

It's not what we were hoping. So starting price, $45K. Didn't we make a bet on this? We had a bet on that, yeah. What was the bet? I think it was over. Did we say $39K or did we say like $42.5K? The bet was over under $39K. Over under $39K.

Back in November 18th of 2021. I think I went the pessimistic route and said over. I took the under, under 39. I think so. Yeah, Andrew was over, Marquez was under. Dang. All right, I took that L. I think I, in my mind, I wanted to win either way.

This was going to be a huge win if Subaru went under 39 and it was going to be a huge loss if it went over. That's sort of, I need the little win. Hedge your emotional damage. Here's the one time i'll be happy for the rest of this segment um yeah 45 is a tough price it's it's a starting price it's an ev supply chain shortages i kind of get it but it's like it's not gonna be cheap to start at 45k so that's where it is beginning super also terra 45k i want to check right now this might be their

most expensive car that they sell most expensive starting i can see that let me check real quick so their most expensive car is the top level trim ascent which is their three row suv that's at 45.9 but you can also get a base ascent at 32 so like this is their most expensive car Volterra leapfrogs the entire lineup in price. You got to really want this one. So what do you get for your 45K to start? You get a 228-mile range. Mm-hmm. And you get a quoted 0% to 80% battery charge in under an hour.

Yeah. Okay. Rough. So that would have been good in like 2017 228 mile range would have been okay in 2017 these these specs to me feel like they're like super base level specs where i would only be impressed with these specs if we were getting a new price range like we were getting a 30 000 car with these specs exactly i would be like, this is amazing. This is our go, this is like the jump into being far more affordable and like 228, it's not that great

compared to other things we've had. But if you're looking at like a super base level EV, that's going to get you to and from work pretty much every single day on your charge from like your garage. Right. So like, sure. You're making the sacrifice of not being able to do long road trips from work pretty much every single day on your charge from like your garage right so like sure you're making the sacrifice of not being able to do long road trips quite as easily but like you're trying to buy the cheapest tv possible like you know you're gonna have to sacrifice i would basically in like the most basic sense of it be looking for either a low price or a high range one or the other and this has neither this is neither it is the high price and a low range yeah and then even with the low range giving it this under an hour i think someone quoted it at zero to eighty percent was

like 56 minutes yeah so it's 100 kilowatt charging it's so just for some context the new like if you look at a tesla right now they charge at 200 to 250 kilowatts if you find the chargers that support it yeah the the slower tesla super chargers are 150 kilowatts and then the fastest ones you might see uh i think a taikan supports 300 you know kilowatt charging so there's some really fast evs out there i think there's even some cheaper ones now isn't the hyundai and the kia like i want to say 300 i think the ionic might be the fastest charging there's one that does 350 350. Yeah, I think that's it. I have it here later because I want to compare these to the EV6 and the Ioniq 5.

But I think the Ioniq 5 has like 0 to 80 in like 16 minutes or something like that. So the 100 kilowatt charging being the max on a fast charger is also pretty disappointing in 2022. Like if you drop this car today that would have been again fine in 2017 but again we're looking at a 45k starting price and a low range so the you could redeem it with super fast charging but it's also not super fast charging yeah and okay like to put into context here also like 45 000 you know when we only talk about evs a lot doesn't sound like the craziest price in the world but when we only talk about evs a lot doesn't sound like the craziest price in the world but when we're talking about just the average person in a car and especially the

average person getting a subaru you can get a hatchback impreza starting at 19 at under 20 yeah so to to have a car that's it's more similar to like the cross trek which is basically the hatchback impreza lifted a little bit at double the price you have to really want the electric one it feels like not quite for that crowd yeah um so it is a really I consider it way overpriced I think um a couple things some people really don't like the design of it I've heard people say it doesn't look like a Subaru I kind of disagree with not looking like I think the Crosstrek and the Imprezas have been becoming like a little sleeker and harder lines and I think it kind of follows that path and isn't too far off um I know people don't like the like it has these black matte sides kind of to the

front of it that I don't love but I don't hate I don't think it looks that bad the interior looks fine I mean there's a lot of like interesting design decisions that have to be made with EVs because there's always like, oh, I'm looking at it now. Hey, that's interesting. I actually kind of like it. But I also think you don't have to look like the other cars in the lineup. This is the thing. Like the Mach-E, which I'm starting to see everywhere.

You have the flat plastic front grill, which I think is nice. The performance version has that. So it's the body matching color flat plastic front grill, which I think is nice. The performance version has that. So it's the body matching color on the front grill. Like that's not a thing you see in other performance Mustangs. It's like different. That's fine. And you also see a lot of aero caps every time you see an EV. They're trying to maximize efficiency.

Aero caps are a big deal. And you just don't see aero caps on most of the other EVs. So you see those two things. You know it's the EV and it looks like the EV. I think it's fine to be a little different like yeah so yeah i don't know how it looked i give it a six and a half out of ten if i'm being honest right now your design i've never been super into the subaru aesthetic this is my favorite looking subaru there i totally agree with you as a subaru fan there are their aesthetic is always like low their wrx's i think look really nice but then other than that they're pretty much fine i just it's usually like reliability and price and price

is why i like them so much yeah um but so like another thing here is that this is built with toyota as well toyota is also coming out with a bz4x which is pretty much the exact same car if you look at it I mean it is the exact same car it's similar to what Toyota and Subaru did with the brz and the forget if it's the frs or the type 86 I think they change the name sometimes and I will get crucified for saying that um but the the biggest issue here though is if you the bz4x is cheaper and has some different specs. So the problem is Subaru likes to do all-wheel drive and everything, so they're only offering the all-wheel drive version, which we know for EV means less efficiency, so now you're losing range on it. But there is still a BZ4X all-wheel drive that's $1,000 cheaper.

All-wheel drive. Okay, well, I mean, yeah. So adding a second motor obviously adds weight, but you can improve efficiency if you have lower-powered motors, if you have the right motor combo. So far in all the cars I'm going to mention in this segment, the all-wheel drive version has less range than the rear-wheel drive version. Performance version. Okay, yeah.

Dang. Well, you know, they tried, I think, Subaru. Yeah, so you can get a BZ4x um for forward or front wheel drive which i do like i don't there's not a huge difference between rear wheel and front wheel if you're in snow rear wheel generally can be a little harder to navigate because the back slips out so i do like that the bz4x has front wheel drive and 252 miles of range for 42k so like i would pick that over the solterra any better it's better even if you like the solterra that is it yeah it's just cheaper it has more range yeah um but to compare it here we said it before the reason this is so tough to look at is because of

the ev6 and the ionic 5 right now which are very similarly sized cars. I want to test the Ioniq 5. I'm so into this. Dude, the Ioniq, I saw one when I was on vacation. It looks so good. I'm so into it. The interior had this like weird white bezels on the screen that I didn't love. But other than that, like from the outside,

I was like, whew, there's a car like you don't see, like it doesn't look like anything else on the road right now. That's another thing. So you look at other Hyundais, and if I was a Hyundai fan, I'd be like, this doesn't look like anything else on the road right now that's it that's another thing so you look at other hyundais and if i was a hyundai fan i'd be like this doesn't look exactly like any other hyundai i think that's totally fine and it's got the i like the wheels i love the lights dude it gives me the light rivian feel it's like if it feels like a rivian was building a crossover like hayato has mentioned it before that rivian is they're getting away from that super aggressive

which i actually do really like but this more like friendly feel to it yeah I'm like friendly robots not like Terminator robots so like so you know it has that friendly feel you know what this reminds me of so a really long time ago back in the day maybe the first car I can ever remember my family having was called a Grand Prix and it had those like square lights in the taillights. And the Ionic is a modernized version of those taillights. It's a grand, let me, can I find a

Grand Prix taillights? I want to say that's Pontiac. Pontiac Grand Prix. Yeah, you can kind of find, yep, it's got the taillights and they're always like these dots and everything. And this is just a new, super modern version of it. So I'm very into the Ioniq.

I want to test it. I want to see if it's good. But like you said, on paper, it beats it in everything. It's got 300 miles of range. It starts at about, what, 42K? Is that what it is? Or the Solterra or the Ioniq. The Ioniq?

Yeah, I have some Ioniq specs here. 300 miles, 42K rear-wheel drive. You can get all-wheel drive, 252 miles at 47K. But also remember, that's 2,000 more expensive, but fast charging. Also charges dramatically faster. Dramatically fast. Like, that's not even a competition. Almost three times faster, I think, than that.

And then you also have the Kia EV ev6 which i also think looks really really good um you can get 230 miles of range rear wheel drive at 40k 310 miles of range rear wheel drive 47k or you can do 274 miles of range all wheel drive for 50k yeah it's it's all about context like i know a lot of people here like the difference between 220 miles and 300 miles is like okay 80 more miles of range what does that even mean uh it's all about just like convenience how often you have to charge it and if you were to do a longer trip yeah the type of like experience you would have so you know the the sweet spot today being somewhere between 300 and 400 miles because that's when you're going to have to get out and use the bathroom anyway. And then just being able to stop anywhere and charge.

The 220 mile range version of this experience is like kind of inconvenient because you're stopping more often than you have to. And then you're adding stops for just charging but not using the bathroom or snacking. And then it's just a whole mental. And using the bathroom and snacking with a um one hour with a slow charger yeah see that's that's that's that's the cherry on top is the

slow charging i really can't believe that that's what it ended up with so i'd rather save five thousand dollars get the ev6 same range but zero to eighty percent in 18 minutes on the right charger it's like a it's like when the one plus has like a smaller battery but it charges at like a million miles an hour they'll give like 80 watt charging to a 3800 milliamp hour battery it's like this phone doesn't last all day but the second i plug it in it's like added 40 so i'm cool with that cool with that yes so i think all in all at the end of the day i'm sad me sad andrew sad you won the bets i won the bet but it doesn't make up for yeah was there a concept maybe it was there a consequence for that bet maybe that'll cheer me up i don't know if we bet anything i think we just bet to bet bragging rights bragging rights aren't

fun well well i think our next bet was about f-150 lightning which that one actually has a hot sauce i think that one might have a hot sauce consequence. We'll check that out. I'm very wrong about that because they've already... Spoiler alert, we're going to have one soon. I mean, a good segue after this break and after this trivia question, we're going to talk a little bit about some F-150 updates, some good, some bad, some brutally honest. And maybe some hot sauce.

Okay, that's fine. All right. Let's get one more trivia question, take a quick break, then we'll come back and talk about all that stuff. Okay. So this one is about phones. So in August 2018, Red released the Hydrogen One. The company also makes all the cameras we use around here, besides the one that Hayato uses. So the question is, how many megapixels did that rear camera have?

On the Hydrogen One? On the Hydrogen One. How many megapixels? The rear camera. The the hydrogen one hydrogen one how many megapixels the rear hydrogen one rear camera okay never i mean i have a chance i have a guess actually i don't know if i know the exact answer but um it's coming back to me sadly i'm remembering all the sad things about that phone think about it on the sad break. Yeah. This holiday season, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is counting on your support.

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I want to talk about this this video that's really messing with my head on twitter it's a video okay of somebody in a tesla model s i guess it's a plaid or it's a refresh model s who hits a button in the ui with a power lifting frunk it opens the frunk i've been waiting for this on the model s for forever you have to manually lift the frunk not a huge deal but every new ev with a frunk is doing the power lifting frunk. Lucid, F-150, Rivian. So great. So that's something that's been added.

And then also, there's a button in the UI to tilt that center screen towards the user. This is another pretty minor thing, but the old Model S's with the vertical screens default tilted the entire screen

towards the driver. that was kind of neat there'd be less glare you could see everything but your passenger wouldn't really be using the screen very much in the new cars the screen is flat so as someone who came from the old car it's like it's kind of a little away from me it feels off yeah and so I heard I think they said in the original presentation of the new car like it'll have tilting or it's at least been on the website since I got the car. It's never tilted. So this video pops up and it looks like it's I mean, this is the type of thing that could be added with a software update. But the more I look into this video, the more it's messing with my head. It comes from a user, Larry Lee, whose username is Tesla Frunk.

Okay. And who has notoriously tweeted and sold aftermarket installs of power opening Frunks. So now I'm like, okay, is this, did you add this to the car or did Tesla add this to the car? The Frunk or the screen? The Frunk. Just the Frunk. Just the Frunk. I'm just wondering about the front the that twitter name changes me from thinking this is a new vietnam right automatically but

you said he did go through the ui right so that's the thing so he went through the ui and the caption to the video is tesla finally added screen swivel to the refresh model s so it doesn't mention the frunk so to me this guy's selling an aftermarket frunk with this tweet. And you could still go through the UI because it's just the original frunk button, right? I believe so. I mean, it's hard to see in there, but he could have just somehow, you know. He could just connect that to the system. When the hydraulics on it or whatever feel the latch open up, it just automatically goes up.

Exactly. Right now in the UI, I hit the frunk button. It just opens the latch. Okay. And then you can pull it open. So maybe he's got a system where when it feels the latch open, it opens it all the way with the power system. I believe that that is not from Tesla.

I agree with you there. But I don't know. It should be. That seems like a pretty obvious thing to do. But I would agree with you. Aftermarket. So the second part is the swiveling screen part, which has been even weirder to me.

So like I said, since day one, since I bought the car, it has said on the site that this is a tilting screen. There's never been a button to tilt it. You can pull it all you want. It won't tilt. It's been flat. There have been teardowns of the Model S that suggest that the parts are there for it to be able to tilt. That was my first question. But it's lacking the electric motor

to actually push the tilt out. So it's got the arm folded back in place. Okay. But the mechanism to power or tilt it isn't there. So now this tweet says, Tesla finally added screen swivel to refresh Model S. This makes me think, okay, either one, it's a new software update and all cars after a certain date have the electric motors and they will get the software update and be able to swivel the screen.

Or this is a new VIN car where they just started adding the motors like yesterday. Or this is also an aftermarket modification. But the fact that he said Tesla added it makes me think it's not an aftermarket modification. But I'm still not sure if my car, which I bought when it said it would have screen tilt, will get the screen tilt. If I was guessing, I would say that this is something I'm going to have to get my car into a Tesla shop to be retrofit for. Mm hmm. Not sure how long that will take.

Not sure if that's true or false. Not sure. It should be free because they said it would have the future in the first place. True. But I am not sure. I've just I have so many more questions than answers after seeing yes i would say i mean like hearing that whole breakdown i would i would imagine they would offer for free if you're right about the mechanisms being in there just minus the motors yeah if that part is not true then i see no chance of that which is

it's just a new vin number yeah but like you it's crazy but that's not unlike what we've seen in the history of tesla yeah tesla's talked about stuff before that's ever happened. I still can't play, what was the game they said? The Witcher? They put some games on this thing. They said Witcher? Yeah, you still can't play the games that they showed in the car at launch. When you went to the Tesla event, when people were there,

it was showing a bunch of games on the screen, and everyone who reported about the car said, you'll be able to play games at your stop with a controller. That has also never happened. So I'm not going to sit here and pretend they've never not shipped something they said they would ship. So I'm interested as is this a if the parts are in there and there's no motors, was this just like, you know, supply chain issue where they sent them out and we're kind of hoping no one would notice because they have sent cars out. Also, just like remember the USB-C ports that just didn't have the connection on they had had to drill out they did retrofit those for free though right but they did also ship them out without telling anybody about it

yeah and letting people figure it out themselves and the screen tilt is not going like you're not going to find that out yeah like usbc isn't like a listed feat maybe it is a listed feature on the site but like the screen tilt seems like it's one where like they put it on the site as a feature. They mentioned it before. So I'm like, I think it would be weird to never ship screen tilts. There's no button in the software currently, right?

Okay. Yeah. So anyway, I just wanted to share that. This video is really messing with my head. I'm sorry. Maybe by the time this podcast comes out, we have an update and I'll have my car getting the screen tilt.

But as of right now, it's this one account being the only one who can tell me about it, who happens to also do aftermarket stuff to cars is really messing with me. It's going to be hard to get a drone fly over to see if they're adding the that might be a little too close. All right. Other EV news. Really quick. Dodge finally teased their Ram 1500 ev which is like this this feels up there with like if you're talking about the most popular vehicles in the u.s this is the other 1500 is like right there with f-150 i'm pretty sure it goes f-150 series ram 1500 series and then another

truck yeah and then like the camry or something i think it's actually rav4 crv and then like camry yeah so we're talking about one of the biggest the next biggest vehicle in the u.s um it's the teaser is very small they really didn't say anything they took a little shot at forward with it have we brightened it uh i have not but i think this is already like kind of a brain damage from their like little video yeah it's just pretty much the the lights coming up on front which do look really nice and it says ram across the front of the truck looks really sleek from the like silhouette you're getting of it yeah um we'll see i feel like dodge hasn't mentioned much about evs i i really don't ever remember talking about them yeah it's funny when you think about like Ford versus Dodge, okay,

so Ford beat Dodge to the punch for an electric pickup truck. Yeah. But when I think of the Ford crowd, as much as you're like a truck person's a truck person, they don't want electric, the Dodge crowd I think seems from the outside in even more like petrolhead, like gas cars, like everything from like the Chargers to the Hellcats to the SRT, the Durango, everything I've seen from Dodge is like motorhead. Do you know what I will personally ask?

I know I have a friend who is a Dodge fan that listens to this podcast. CJ, I will reach out to you soon and I want to hear what you said about this. He did mention he was interested in the F-150, not buying it. He is a Dodge fan, but he does like the idea of when you look at an ev from pure specs there's some cool stuff there as long as you're in that

category where it fits too because obviously truck stuff is a lot different but uh yeah i'll get it i'd like to see that because i as well as a non-truck person seem to see dodge truck people as being far more loyal or just insanely loyal yeah like i haven't seen any dodge ev stuff at all like i don't maybe i've missed it but is there a dodge charger electric being teased anywhere like i don't think that's happening like yeah well i don't see dodge talking about ev stuff very much so this kind of came out of the blue instant shot at ford because they said they're gonna bring the thunder to the ford lightning. If I can make another bet, this probably isn't that bold of a bet, but I would bet that

this Ram 1500 has to be a much more aggressive looking like bold design truck. Well, we can kind of see. We can kind of see it. I agree with you. I think it's going to be so kind of how the Silverado is like different,

right? The lightning is the same as exactly the same minus the bar light a little bit of light difference i think you're right i think they're gonna go the like intense route with this okay we'll see i'm excited to see it yeah um and now on f-150 nilai had a really really interesting interview with j Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford. And I think there's a couple quick points here I just want to talk about, but we'll link the whole article in the show notes. And I highly, highly suggest reading it because I think it's just important for EV in general. Talking about the F-150 release, one thing I saw that was cool in here is they just did their production launch the other day. But apparently at the the this is right

around that time at the time of this interview they have 1800 vehicles built already so the production plants up and running and pump pumping quote-unquote for like a new production line like it's starting to move at least yeah you start somewhere so you know they've built 1800 again i think i saw that number and i was like oh cool did you deliver any of them no no okay so they've started building them and it always looks like a ramp every time we see a new product line we expect to see the ramp go okay 3600 then 10 000 then 50 000 so we'll see that to see that it's like at a an okay number of cars before deliveries happen makes me feel a tad optimistic but then then right after that, he also mentions that like there are,

he knows there's limited factors in here. And right now he thinks batteries are actually going to be the biggest limiting factor on pumping out the F-150 numbers. We know that the orders for the F-150 are like- Massive. Insane. Yeah. He thinks it'll probably take one and a half to two years,

I believe, to actually fulfill all of those orders before they get into the like full-blown just production you know you don't need a pre-order for it so that's a while and he thinks not chips because because ford is so massive and buying so many chips for an f-150 already they they have good connections with all of that he's not worried about chips being the limiting factor he's worrying about batteries being the limited factor okay which i do think they're investing some more money into a battery factory in georgia that they work with um but that's going to be the thing that's going to stall them out um he was also really really blunt about

um the charging network which i thought was really interesting he said he gives their charging network about us or not even just the network but about how it works with the network the experience yeah like a c on a grade which i think might even be a little optimistic maybe it's our experience we've talked about this before it was really bad but we were also in a super remote part yeah i was gonna say so we did a thousand mile road trip with Namaki. I would say from the exact route that we took, our trip was like a D minus. Yeah. But I think if you average out all the different chargers and all the different experiences

and all the different routes people are taking for road trips, I can see it being a C, maybe. Sure. It probably really depends on how you do it as well. Are there A pluses out there? A plus routes you hit the charger it's on non-tesla networks yeah maybe maybe well i mean i'm sure there are some but yeah so average one thing he did mention is that he thinks hyundai and kia i think are doing really good things with the way they bring you to charging networks which is like making sure

they're available making sure charges or stalls are available and that they want to look at other companies, how they're doing that and being able to update how Ford, because this isn't just for that one 50, this is for the marquee, which is like we mentioned before, I see those everywhere. Yeah. Like let's not get it twisted. We did our video, but like, we're not the only ones to say that the charging network is like a problem for these cars after the video though, like Ford reached out and they're like here's a bunch of stuff that we're doing to hopefully make sure this experience doesn't happen again we're gonna have people constantly checking the chargers we're gonna try to make sure as many of them as possible are not just fixed but updated so that we don't navigate you to one that's not updated so like they know it's not like they're unaware

that these are challenges that they have to tackle it's just a it's a challenge they're unaware that these are challenges that they have to tackle. It's just a challenge they don't own. Like they don't own Luxury America. And a big part of that challenge is relying on user reports. And so one of the things that he talked about that he hopes they implement soon is not having to rely fully on the user report, but being able to rely on the data of a car plugging in, how long it gets plugged in for how quickly it moves away so they can tell like if a car goes up plugs in and immediately leaves that charge is probably

broken they need to it reports that automatically and yeah can hopefully get a technician there and that just like the charging network in general really needs to be fixed which i think we can all agree on and i think is a huge step for not just Ford, for literally all EVs. It'll be interesting also to see, you know, as we have more and more Mach-Es out there, like this is Tesla's huge advantage with like self-driving, for example, was they have so many cars on the road that a small fraction of them doing some testing for them is a lot of data. And so now that Ford is going to have a ton of EVs on the road, the Mach-E, F-150 is going to start being out there. They have a lot of cars with that sort

of information and an internet connection, and they can beam that up and that can be very useful. And hopefully one more step from that is Electrify America, who's servicing all of those, is hopefully now getting every new company that puts another line of evs out hopefully that's more information for electrify america to start grabbing from and increasing that um and one more thing he talked about which i thought was interesting was that he's working on trying to convince legislators to increase the ev tax limit for the u.s um mentioning that a bunch of other countries have done that and that's not just for ford that's just for everybody so but it would benefit ford obviously yeah but it's you know i'll take something that benefits ford if it means it also benefits literally all of us and gets the u.s onto the ev

yeah the for those like unfamiliar the the the point of the the tax incentive was to accelerate the adoption of ev exactly so every company was given a set number of cars that they could sell that are electric that would be rebated by the government. So if somebody bought the car, they'd get a $7,000-something rebate on their taxes. And then after they sold that number of cars, the rebate would go down to $3,000. And then they sold a certain number of cars, it would go down to $1,000. And then it would be something else, and then it would be zero.

And so Tesla rocketed through that. They sold a ton of cars. And a lot of these companies who are just starting up, they will get the full tax rebates. Ford sold a lot of EVs. I'm sure they're somewhere in that stratosphere. And so, yes, we would like to see many more companies start to make more.

But also, yeah, if you bump the cap more ev adoption for everyone because that does 7500 is a big jump that makes the solterra seven thousand dollars less it was the only argument i saw to actually wanting the solterra over some is that chances are subaru is going to sell less than toyota or hyundai or kia that's so like it might actually be lower in price because you have a better chance of getting the EV tax credit on it. So that does put it down to 38, right? Yeah. No. 45.

It was 42, right? 45. No, I'm saying I don't know if the math is right. I was just shaking my head like it's still not good enough. No, Adam told me I was wrong. Oh, it's still not good enough. Still not good enough. It's like, yeah, maybe 38 me I was wrong. Oh, it's still not good enough. It's still not good enough. It's like, yeah,

maybe 38's good. No, no, it's not. Not great. No, that's, I think where we're at. We're all very optimistic. No, yeah, we'll link the EV interview

from Nilay and Jim down below. Also, you should definitely check out our Ford F100 video, which was the electrified one, which is a whole separate version of like what an EV is, but the experience. What EVs could be i guess yeah

exactly so that we'll link that below as well um but i think the place to end would be to hit the trivia answers which were one was a car and one was about trucks yeah it was a truck okay refresh my memory adam where what were the first the first trivia question let's start with the truck one right so the first one the rivian r1T won the Motor Trend Truck of the Year for 2022. Which truck won in 2021? Motor Trend Truck of the Year 2021. Now, I don't know that many award winners. I know that the Kia Telluride was like the SUV of the year or something.

I could see that, yeah. But that might also be 2022 so it's probably some i don't know the answer i don't i have a guess you do what's your my guess would be the ford maverick because it's this like smaller size truck that's also a hybrid and at a really really good price and i know a lot of people are super into it so it feels like something disrupting a little bit does the jeep count as a truck there are jeep trucks um the bronco is popular but it's not a truck is it that's a confusing one because the old bronco had like the detachable back roof which like i bet some people would consider a truck but i don't

think the new broncos do that. Do you guys want a hint? Do we both get the hint before guessing? That means I'm wrong if he's asking for a hint. Sounds like it, yeah. All right, let's take the hint. We spoke about it in this episode. Wow. Kind of.

Oh. A Jace. The 1500? The Ram. We mentioned the Ram. We spoke about it or mentioned it? It's just the 150. Mentioned it. Okay, so I've mentioned a bunch because I went mentioned the Ram. We spoke about it or mentioned it? It's just that one thing. Mentioned it.

Okay. So I've mentioned a bunch because I went down the list. Let me go with. Is this a half credit point now that we got a hint? We still both don't know it though. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think so. I think it could be a full point.

The only other thing I can think of is if you're right about like suvs counting as a truck we did talk about the ascent for a minute and the ascent was subaru's like new three-row car that everyone loved because it's really cheap for like a three-row yeah but is that a truck of the i don't think so i'm just gonna go with the f no i'm gonna go with the ram 1500 i'm wrong i'm i just i i liked my maverick guess yeah so i'm just gonna say even though i'm wrong the ram 1500 trx there it is oh trx okay yeah the trx is like the performance version yeah okay wow that's a point i'll take it all right what was the second oh with the red camera right yep red phone in august 2018 red released a hydrogen one smartphone the company also makes all the cameras we use here

in the studio the question is how many megapixels did the rear camera have in the red hydrogen one so not only do i not know i'm scared of getting made fun of for guessing an answer that's how the camera system it was it was his dual cameras and they were advertising the ability to shoot stereoscopic 3d they were also advertising the opportunity of like lenses on the back which doesn't change the megapixel but you have to assume that the megapixel has to be able to fit yeah never you would assume it has to be a good one because you're gonna get all these crazy add-ons so you can film a whole movie it we already know it was a letdown like we don't have to rub it in it was bad wow so uh the number that popped in my head is 12 because every everything is 12 but i i want to double double think here because it was such a weird phone and they had two and there was

like the the 3d screen and they wanted to show 3d we took 3d videos and showed it and played it back for joe rogan remember that was was this not a um just sensor they pulled out it was it was just a yeah it was a sensor yeah i remember it it was just a regular Sony sensor, and Red makes cameras, so they could have made a sensor, but they didn't. Yeah, and everyone thought that was hilarious. So let me just go with a standard Sony sensor, and it's a 12-megapixel sensor. Andrew?

I'm just going to agree with that because I remember it being a standard Sony sensor. Well, I want to say something different from what you say. My second guess is going to be like 24 which is dumb which one is definitely not 24 i don't know i just remember making fun of it because it was just a regular sensor and it's like bro you're red come on yeah it's a sony 12 megapixel sensor so i don't know who made it i'm assuming it was sony yeah but it was a dual 12.3 megapixels so i'll give you the point for that 12 yeah yeah they're all 12.2 or 12.3 yeah yeah that's a it was a letdown rough

every time i think about that phone i just get sad why did we have so much high hopes for that all right well that'll do it for this episode of the waveform podcast the waveform uh section was quite long i promise we'll have all kinds of other stuff coming up but also i'm really excited about one of the next videos we're working on on the channel um spoiler alert it's not an ev it's very very different we're replacing tim it's something that's all you need to know uh but thanks for listening this week tune back in next week and we appreciate you may the fourth be with you If you're listening to this late, which is clearly, you know, you can't listen to it on the 4th because we're recording it on the 4th.

So Adam, may the 4th be with you. Happy Cinco de Mayo. Happy whatever holidays are coming up. Thanks for listening. Catch you guys in the next one. Peace. Waveform was produced by Adam Molina. We are partnered with Vox Media,

and our intro-outro music was created by Vain Sil.