Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - The End of Google Bard as We Know It!

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David discuss everything from the rebranding of Google Bard to the Cybertruck. And of course it gets philosophical as the question of "What is a photo?" was brought up again by a Samsung exec. Plus, we start a brand new season of trivia so hopefully you caught the finale earlier in the week. Enjoy! Links: The Verge YouTube Thumbnail Test: https://bit.ly/3SRhxvR Techradar Samsung Story: https://bit.ly/3HPuOit JerryRigEverything Apple Vision Pro: https://bit.ly/42FVCLG Casey Neistat Video: https://bit.ly/3SqDFMk Captain Disillusionment tweet: https://bit.ly/3UB99Ce Engadget Rivian story: https://engt.co/3SwkLUs New Porsche Taycan: https://bit.ly/3UAnjU3 Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am so dreading groceries this week. Why? You can skip it. Oh, what? Just like that? Just like that. How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats? Skippable.

Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices? Uh, nope. You're on your own there. Could've skipped it. Should've skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast.

We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. And this week, first I want to give a little shout out to the previous episode, which was a bonus episode. Midweek, we did our end of the trivia season extravaganza episode. If you didn't see it because it was in bonus timing, go back and check it out. I won't spoil who won, but now. It was chaotic.

It was chaotic, of course. And now trivia scores are reset. Zero. Zero. Carry the one. It was chaotic, of course. And now trivia scores are reset, zero, zero. Carry the one. We're tied, baby. We're all tied again. Feeling good. I think we're saying this is season four.

I think that's what we're going with. Okay. New trivia season four, 2024. It just lines up. It feels like it makes sense. Sure. Fair. Let's pull a Samsung.

It's season 24 now. That's what it is no today we've got a whole bunch of interesting stories kind of all across the map like bard being renamed rebranded Samsung claiming there is no such thing as a picture and quoting me oh no and Jerry everything doing a teardown of the vision Pro wrapped up with a couple new EVs that are surprisingly interesting But first I have a number I want you guys to react to okay, okay? It's an interesting number I just saw this as a headline and we'll link it below PPI count vision pro we knew it was a high pixel per inch

But just to give a little bit of context the screen on an iPhone 15 Pro Max 460 pixels per inch that's really good i don't think most of us realize how good that is like you don't really see individual pixels unless you're really up close looking for them yeah 400 plus pixels per inch is amazing uh but once you put it up to your face through lenses it's got to be even higher resolution to be convincing so htc vive pro 950 pixels per inch to get that done. Okay.

You're trying to minimize the screen door effect. You're trying to have as high resolution as possible to make things look smooth. The latest and greatest, MetaQuest 3, 1,218 pixels per inch.

That's pretty good, right? 1,218. You can see where this is going. Envision Pro. 3 318 3,000 whoa 386 pixels per inch that is about 10 times more dense than the original uh retina display of the iphone yeah and again it's right up to your face it's viewed through lenses but that's still the highest resolution displays we've ever seen. I'm kind of a pixel nerd. I love high resolution. This made me very happy. Can we do pixels per inch per dollar? Now we're talking. So about it, actually, then you got to give it to the quest, right?

Quest is only 500 bucks. You can do the math better here now. Well, Vision Pro is 3000 for 3000. So that's roughly one to one, $3,500. $3,500? $3,386 pixels per inch, $3,500. Give or take, right? One to one. Quest 3 is $500 and you're getting 1,200 pixels per inch. So that's a win for the per dollar category for Quest.

That's true. Why would you ever buy a Vision Pro? Well, because you have more dollars to spend. You need more pixels. That's just a fun thing I'd open the episode with. Anyway, okay. First story I want to talk about. YouTube adding testing, a color filter.

You actually saw this on your feed. Yeah, it came up on my feed. A color filtering feature. I will say I never would have noticed it unless David mentioned it the other day. Because you saw the article about it. Do you want to explain what it is? YouTube loves to make random experimental features.

Some are very useful. Evergreen. Like summarizing your chat or summarizing your comment section. Some are questionable as this one kind of is. Basically, the feature is that for some users, this is just being tested on some users, and Andrew happened to be a lucky user picked out by YouTube. You now have an option to sort your feed by the color of the thumbnail with three different colors. You can either sort it by red, green, or blue, RGB. In practice, this is strange.

Vibes only, you know purely purely vibes uh yeah so if you click one of them it basically just shows you a bunch of thumbnails where the primary color is a certain color there's a verge article on it and um the test image that they showed the first video was the autofocus model three yeah the red model three yeah and then a bunch more videos that just had a lot of red in the thumbnail which says nothing about the contents of the video that's what i was thinking like you're clicking a thumbnail and then it's over you're watching the video it could be a red video like if i'm okay it's a red car review show there's a lot of red in the video but often that's not true yeah yeah so i i don't it's just in the thumbnail so it doesn't even mean the video is yeah yeah like so when it came up on mine it just said craving

something new and then had three circles red blue green and said creative feed of videos based off color and enjoy exploring let's go create an aesthetic grid of red thumbnails it's like yeah a temporary like search of just like color thumbnail color base yeah thing is i'm not mad because i would never have thought about something this stupid but because like i don't know some some dumb stupid stuff is just kind of fun but it's also just very strange. I think they're just bored. I think YouTube, if there's one thing that I've learned about YouTube over the years, like we've actually been privileged enough to get some behind the scenes and like talk

to people who work for YouTube. And that is a very, very large ship with very many oars. And yes, Neil is a CEO, but he can like it in a direction and sort of steer this big thing. When they're so gigantic, any changes they make are at scale, no matter what they do. So if you have a tiny little change that affects 1% of the users on the site,

that affects 100 million people. That's just what happens. And so they run these experiments all the time where they're like, we just want to kind of see what would happen if and they'll run an experiment that's like 0.01% of users and if it works well

maybe 0.02%. And sometimes it makes it to the whole site. Sometimes they just go yep no more like button counter no more dislike button counter or whatever and it's the whole site

and that's a huge sweeping change everyone talks about but I feel like they run these tiny little experiments all the time that nobody talks about that are just as pointless feeling or even dumber than this one. Yeah. I think they added the Chrome game to it at some point, like temporarily. Like the dinosaur game and then it went away.

I don't know. It's very interesting. like my best guess at what this would attempt to be is we've talked about it we weirdly talked about not that long ago but old sites like stumble upon where it's just kind of like hey we're trying to get people to some new things maybe your feed's a little stagnant maybe the people you're subscribed to you're not enjoying as much here's like an opportunity to find some people why they decided like here's just i want to find people with red thumbnails right now is the route they went not totally sure maybe something crazy unexpected happened that we didn't know about

like when you just go blue thumbnails it's all videos about the ocean I don't know I have no idea what happened but maybe they found something there I'm going to create three new YouTube channels one called red, one called green, and one called blue and just flood them with colored videos of that color so that when people use this feature, all my channels get tons of views.

I definitely thought you were about to make a Pokemon reference. Should we do ABC testing where it's just the same video except we do thumbnails in red, blue, and green? Red, blue, and green? That's actually a totally in the weeds but very valid question because we have done A-B testing with different colors of the same device where Tim is a wizard. So we'll have one iPhone video thumbnail and he'll change the color of the phone I'm holding from blue to titanium. So we have two of them.

And what we found is it makes almost no difference unless there's like an iconic color, which I thought titanium for the iPhone was, it would make a less than 1% difference. This is very funny. We got access to the multi-thumbnail option recently where you can submit two thumbnails. Actually, up to three. Up to three, yeah.

And basically it'll do A-B testing and figure out what people are more likely to click on, which has a higher click-through rate. Not exactly. Not exactly. It tells you which one ended up delivering a higher overall watch percentage. Oh, okay. Which is like what YouTube wants, not necessarily what we want. Yeah.

Which is... Have I said this on the pod before? I don't know, actually. It's the opposite of what you would think. So when you're testing a thumbnail, I think a lot of people measure a good thumbnail as high click-through rate. People saw the thumbnail and clicked it. Good thumbnail. People saw the thumbnail and weren't interested, bad thumbnail. So you'd measure success by a high click-through percentage.

And what YouTube is actually giving you when you A-B test is not the percentage at all, but it's the average watch time of the viewer that clicked that thumbnail. So let's say you have thumbnail red, thumbnail blue, and people watched 50% of the video when they watched thumbnail red, but they watched 80% of the video with thumbnail blue. You would think thumbnail blue is the winner because you want to reward that really good metric. But what've started to realize is if you equalize all other factors for your own audience who would just click whatever you post no matter what the thumbnail is,

if you have a horrible thumbnail, only the most dedicated viewers will watch it and give you a high watch percentage. So a thumbnail with a bad click-through rate will have a great average watch time. Does that make sense? So if you find you get 5% more watch time with one thumbnail, maybe pick that one. But if you find you get 40% more watch time, it probably means the other one is actually a horrible thumbnail.

And watch time is very important and good because it can play more ads, which generates more revenue for both YouTube and the uploader. But arguably, sometimes you would just want more clicks. Well, yeah, like I would almost argue YouTube wants it because they want more people staying to do more ads. And satisfied. And satisfied. But like that almost argues for non-clickbait things

because they don't want people clicking things, realizing it has nothing to do with the thumbnail. Which is true, but let's be real. Almost every YouTuber is looking for the person to click because they've never seen it before. The goal should be a nice balance. You don't want to over-promise under-deliver. That's a bad thumbnail that has a high click-through rate and a low watch time. But you also don't actually want to under-promise over-deliver because people won't even click the thumbnail to get rewarded in the first place.

You want to find the balance. This metric is kind of sort of floating in the middle i do that on my youtube channel which is why i get no views but but yeah i and to um intentionally make everything looking like really ambiguous and complicated but um ironically when we do the AB testing on the thumbnails, the percentage is almost always 50.1 and 49.9, which to me is like, that's probably not statistically significant. Exactly. Actually, if it's close enough,

YouTube will just tell you, it's a tie, whatever you want. Yeah, and that happens all the time. Yeah. So we probably have to test bigger differences in thumbnails. Maybe by color well all red thumbnail maybe that's what you read red phone red background maybe youtube was like we tried this multi-thumbnail thing and it isn't giving us any relevant data so let's just throw

everything in the wall and do colors i feel like youtube releasing new features feels like whenever we get a new mirrorless camera that also shoots videos. It's like they're like, hey, we're giving you this thing that you really want. But we're also going to kind of screw something up with it where it doesn't even really give you everything you want. Like we wanted A-B testing, but they're like, we just got to sprinkle in a little bit of our mystery here as well. So you can constantly be in a Discord channel trying to figure figure out how this actually works i mean i get it if youtube rolled out a feature where they're just we'll tell you which one has a higher yeah click-through rate people will just continue to optimize for the more and more and more clickbaity yeah i get that's a good point it makes sense but that's

where we find ourselves is sorting by red blue and green okay um anyway anyway okay yes the first actual story though yeah from google again bard remember bard the artist formerly known as bard yeah that's not called bard anymore so uh we can we can jump right into what actually happened but essentially there's an update for google assistant with bard on our android phones that is now just calling it Gemini. And Gemini was already the name of, I think, the large language model that was underneath a lot of what it did. Yeah. But now they're just calling the whole thing Gemini.

And the name Bard is just gone? Yeah, so they're getting rid of the Bard branding altogether. Okay. Which is the most Google thing I've ever heard. Toss that one out. You know, develop some brand identity for a year and then just be like, JK. And make it a whole new one that's also not Google Assistant when they already had the Google Assistant branding since 2016. Anyway, what's happening is they are basically rolling out a mobile app for Gemini, which is called Gemini Advanced.

That uses Gemini Ultra 1.0 sick so there's going to be a dedicated app for it i don't think there was a dedicated app for bard right right yeah so you just had to use it in the mobile app yeah uh yeah in the browser so yeah it's that's basically the news it's it's kind of very google to to just throw away this brand identity and name and everything. I will say, though, we have been testing Gemini Advanced with Ultra 1.0 for the last couple of months. On a couple different phones. On a couple different phones. And it's been really, really good, at least for me.

Yeah. I've been using it for research purposes. And I do fact check everything it tells me, but it hasn't really been hallucinating almost at all, which has been really useful. And I've been looking at very niche things that I need for specific videos that I'm working on that are really hard to like Google correctly.

Ellis could have used that for the prices of 1975 VCRs. Yeah, if it was able to link him to things. Yeah, it can source maybe a little. Yeah, but I was able to say like, explain this to me like I'm 12 and it will actually give me analogies. I love that. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, there's all kinds of hacks and things that work really well with it. I love it. I think we're all kind of expecting this to be a thing across all the assistants. The mobile assistants series long overdue for an update. There's all these rumors we keep seeing about expecting this to be a thing across all the assistants, the mobile assistants. Siri is long overdue for an update.

There's all these rumors we keep seeing about a large language model and a big Siri update and all these helpful functions. I think they would be awesome to see that also. Bixby kind of... Bixby's... I don't know why that wasn't part of the Samsung AI update. It was kind of confusing how Bixby didn't get any love, but then there's tons of AI all around Bixby.

Yeah. Whatever. Anyway, so Google Assistant, yeah. I think I've used it again for a lot of similar stuff to you and... I mean, Gemini 1.0 with Gemini Ultra. Jesus, I'm going to... Yes, this is the thing about branding. Wasn't it Gemini with Ultra 1.0?

Gemini with Ultra 1.0. I've been using Gemini. Yeah. And not to be confused with Will Smith's movie. And it has a lot of overlap with the stuff that I was using Google Assistant for, but it also actually didn't do some of the things that Assistant did do. So it's like picking up mostly where Assistant left off for me, and it does way more of that fun stuff, like explaining things and generating things.

But I needed to like loop in everything. You can't do home control and stuff with it that's like yeah so like this is sort of the whole like what's going on my brain's starting to hurt thing that's going on with the google assistant thing is like everyone just assumed that google was just going to add large language model capabilities to straight to the assistant because google assistant the like hey g branding has very strong brand recognition it's been around since 2016 it's in a ton of um of like smart speakers it's in people's cars and android auto like they've been using that hot word and the google assistant logo

is recognizable to most people yeah so for them to like be developing this whole separate thing on the side just feels very strange i assume that they were doing that with Bard so they could develop it and make it not hallucinate and lie to you before they coupled it in with Google Assistant, which has the ability to control your home smart stuff. I don't really know why they didn't just keep developing Bard until it was ready to couple in with Google Assistant. I knew they were going to kill Bard at some point, but why are they rebranding it already i have no idea yeah the branding thing is confusing to me yeah i was just as someone who hasn't gotten to test it so i have no real input in this what i will say is bard is a great name but i'm very sad they're getting rid of it i would much rather when it gets to that point hey bard yo bard what as the the like wake up word hey g the full thing is extremely annoying to say and i feel like i just mumble it to the

point where now it doesn't really recognize me anymore hey gemini is going to be annoying if there's someone in the future who watches this also where that oh no i don't think there isn't a hot word for this this well if it does go to do you think it just gets you said if it eventually pairs i think eventually they're going to it's going to be google assistant powered by gem okay yeah so it's still annoying google to say yes i want hey bard that's so much better well you can forget about bard he's yeah that it's also there's like a little balance i have to strike of it can't be too easy to say because you might accidentally say it with other syllables. Siri's still around. Bart and Siri are both.

Yeah. Well, the accidental triggers on Siri go hard. So maybe that's. Yeah. It does that sometimes. Whenever I say sorry, it always triggers. Yeah. So, yeah, there's a balancing act.

But I agree. Yeah, it's a little confusing that it is developed in sort of a separate silo from google assistant and then i suppose at some point eventually it'll be good enough that they feel like combining it all into one mega new rebranded named thing but i feel like they're just gonna name it siri eventually yeah that's the the loop we're gonna encounter it'll be called google messenger i just want to read a quote i just want to read a quote from like the the press release that they sent me all right bard will be called gemini and we're rolling out a mobile app and gemini advanced with ultra 1.0 god that's not confusing at all okay so it's a lot of words sounds like some startup event where you're just

like i think i understand i'm too embarrassed to ask if i wait i just have theory because gemini is a constellation now yes and we always see the stars to represent uh the ai thing yeah maybe that's why they had a reason why they called it gemini they publicly said that david why do they use the twinkly stars to represent i'm going to japan to find out oh yeah i'm interviewing the guy who invented the emoji in Japan on there. Is he going to explain everything? I hope so. I hope so, too. That sounds sick.

Okay. I want to know how big the team at Google is that just names things. Do you think there's at least 100 employees that are just naming things? Or do you think it's all the teams that are naming things? I think it's one employee, and he's's 15 feet tall and he has this giant chair and they go in and they go oh king of names what shall we name this and he goes gemini and they go oh and he goes wait wait never mind ellis that was all embargoed we weren't allowed to say that so this is actually way too in the weeds and only really makes sense for people that were working at Google at the time.

Yeah, it's not a really fun reason why they called it Gemini. The reason they call it Gemini is because the astrological sign for Gemini is the twins, right? Yeah, and it's palm and lambda. No. No. No? No. When they had Google DeepMind and Google Brain both at Google the same time, that were kind of doing very similar tasks,

they merged them. There was a trivia question about it. I feel like, yeah, this sounds very familiar. The merger of Google DeepMind and Google Brain into just Google DeepMind, they called it Gemini because they were merging the twins, which is what happens in the constellation. And it also is a constellation, which is stars,

and now it's associated with the stars. is better that giant does good work i also love this quote the twins were the brain team which worked on llm such as palm and the deep mind team which worked on the chinchilla what's the chinchilla project i don't know that's the guy in the big chair click that link right it's like a horror movie what is that project this is a dog looking at a lemon meringue pie anyway um yeah so so that'll be fun and i'm i'm kind of excited that there is going to be a dedicated app for it and i'm hoping that you'll be able to map that to the action button on the iphone 15 because previously uh we've been testing the bard with gemini capabilities bard advanced which has gemini 1.0 in it which is now anyway ultra 1.0 yeah we oh sorry i didn't want no you're right you're right i'm just frustrated we've

been testing that uh but you weren't able previously to launch that app immediately with the action button on the iphone 15 you could only launch the google app because the only way to actually interact with the bard advanced thing was in the google app instead of the assistant app so you guys are all probably really bored right now noticing off wake up and let's continue the podcast the new ui is cool yeah i like it it's got pretty colors no it's got this new uh what's the weather tomorrow big text and then it's still just writing what you're saying now it's just gonna write what i'm saying but that's right yeah it's doing things yeah and i like the stars yeah anyway but that's right yeah it's doing things yeah and i like the stars yeah anyway that would be that let's move on let's move on let's move on to something that also won't take forever to talk

about despite one samsung executive says there's no such thing as a real picture oh my god and that's it we're moving on i can see the steam coming out of david's ears yeah i saw this headline and i was like that's crazy that he just said it. And then I opened the Verge article and it starts with the Samsung VP saying, there was a very nice video by Marques Brownlee last year. And I went, oh my God. Don't pull me into this. I don't want to be responsible.

Don't make me part of this. But it's basically his argument is the full-on philosophical, what's a picture anyway? Like if you expose a sensor and it goes through algorithms to decide what to show on your screen, it's just making it up. It's not, there's no real picture. David, take a deep breath. Okay. Film photography is the only way to take a real photo. And that's probably what he would say too.

You're literally having photons just hit the silver halide crystals and create a negative. That is, I think, the only way to take a real photo, which is based on photons. Doesn't it make a difference what film stock he is though? Not really.

You could do a double exposure. You're still capturing the photons. Well, not capturing, I guess. Yeah, but doesn't it come out differently based on the film stock? It does. So then would you argue that maybe only some film stock is a real photo and the other one's adding too much of a stylization to it? They all add a stylization.

It sounds like not a photo to me. It sounds like a little different to me. The only way to make a real photo is if you shoot it on film and then you use an enlarger to print with photosensitive chemicals and an enlarger with a bunch of light because as soon as you scan the scanner also digitizes it and puts it through like if you use a fuji scanner versus like there's all these different scanners and they apply different looks i feel like your argument just was the same argument that i had but you said i was wrong i think you're all agreeing there's no such thing as a real photo i think that's what then what is a photo i'm just saying here we go if there is no answer to the question i also hope you know i'm mostly just screwing i know okay i'm angry you could you could even make the argument

that the photo part ends as soon as it passes through a lens because the light would have never been focused that way it would have just bounded off ambiently. I just think it's funny that- I'm removing photo from the English dictionary. Yeah. This is a stupid thing to say. It is a stupid thing to say, but we used to always just say

whenever we talked about AI stuff, like, what is a picture? And we used to get comments being like, can you guys shut up with this thing? Just what is a picture? Now the Samsung executive is also throwing that card out there. But I hate that he's quoting us. I know. He's like, hey, look, they don't think what is a picture? Now the Samsung executive is also throwing that card out there. But I hate that he's quoting us. I know.

He's like, hey, look, they don't think it's a picture. We don't think it's a picture. Nothing's a picture. It's fine. Everything's fine. This is also the same company that, like, plasters the moon onto the picture. That's what he referenced.

That's what he's referencing. He literally, okay, I'll just read the quote, because he said, he told TechRadar, there was a very nice video by Marques Brownlee last year on the moon picture. Everyone was like, is it fake? Is it not fake? There's a debate around what constitutes a real picture and actually there's no such thing as a real picture. As soon as you have

sensors to capture something, you reproduce what you're seeing and it doesn't mean anything. There's no real picture. You can try to define a real picture by saying I took it but there's AI, autofocus. Is it real or is it all filters? There is no real picture. Full stop.

That guy, I hope that guy hires a wedding photographer at some point and he just gets back a bunch of mid-journey, happy married couple. And then the photographer's like, there's no such thing as a picture. What did you hire me to do? What am I paying you for? Yeah. I just generated them with Gemini. You said that technically the lens would change it, but our eyes are also lenses that bend the light. But different lenses.

Yeah, but we're not... Yeah, but... We're not taking photos. We're not taking photos. We're living life. We're getting a constant stream of photos. The speed at which our... Oh, I get it.

So we can't actually see, is what you're saying. Well, we see everything upside down, but our brains flip them. We also see in latency. Also, color doesn't exist. You're now manually breathing. Because everything is the way of life. Everyone, you heard it here first.

Nothing is real. That is everything but red. Commit crimes. Do it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. Because, no, okay.'t do that people the madness you can do anything kids it's like having the one ring it's just samsung said so i kind of feel like

his own quote here like kind of argues for against himself he's like you can try and define a real picture by saying i took that picture but if you use ai to optimize the zoom the autofocus the scene is it real or is it filters there's no real picture full stop it kind of sounds like he's saying well if you don't use ai or a zoom or an autofocus then it is a real picture but he's still saying as soon as you have sensors to capture yeah oh he said that also i love how he brings up the moon thing and then he completely diverts away from it arguably the me under the bus man it feels like he's using all these other things to basically say like no that definitely was not a real picture and we got caught doing it he's saying yeah we got caught but photos don't exist anyway so why are you mad actually basically yeah like there were never

photos to begin with so what are you so mad about i'm just showing you the moon you were taking a picture of in the first place yeah we need to go to the next samsung event and when they say the s25 takes great photos you just go there's no such thing as photos what section of reviews what does wikipedia define photo as i'm looking. A photograph, also known as photo image or picture, is an image created by light falling on a photosensitive surface. Usually photographic film or electronic image sensor. So just the light hitting the sensor is the photo. None of the processing pipeline after that. It's created by the light falling on the photosensitive surface. It's created by the light falling on the photosensitive surface.

That's technically incorrect, because the light hitting the sensor doesn't create anything until the sensor goes, all right, here's the data to the processor, here's the processing, here's the thing that gets output. Created by light falling on the photosensitive surface. So the light, it is created by it, because the light falls on the CCD sensor or on the film.

But if it's off, nothing happens. It doesn't fall. Light never falls. I like that definition because no matter what processing the camera's doing it's still a photo it's still working like there there's an input which is the light on the sensor and then there an output, which is a file that we can see. We can say it's a photograph. Exactly. With the moon thing, for example,

those pixels were not informed by light hitting the sensor. They were informed by light hitting a sensor at some point somewhere else. But then at that point, it's the same as Photoshop. It's a composite. Yeah, which we've all decided. Although everything else is a composite too. Oh, Marques is going to rock my wall of parts now. They only showed up there because of the

way light was hitting the sensor and then it said oh moon yeah but because of the way the light but that's a meta decision and not not an image decision it was automatically triggered by the light hitting a sensor a certain way that's true yeah but here's my argument and we might have to cut this oh no hey i appreciate you going before but if an actor is on the cover of a magazine okay and he is super ugly okay someone will photoshop him to be less ugly before he's on the cover of that magazine i'm with you him being that ugly in the original picture is what triggered the decision to alter the photograph to composite it into a new image and it's the same thing where something in the original image triggered a compositing behavior but we would all say that's not a real photograph he's

actually ugly right so that's how i feel about the moon thing it's like yes you're right in something happened at the input stage that made it do this work but because the actual image work is a composite job yeah i'm saying not photo which is is why I like- Okay, I have something to bring up to you based on that, Ellis. Okay. Yeah. So almost every smartphone uses multi-frame HDR now. And so having an image that is either too bright or too dark informs the phone to need to take multiple shots

and create a composite. I was just also gonna say so many phones do just automatic skin smoothing which is essentially the exact thing you were just talking about okay so phones aren't pictures so phones are not photos but photos are real photos are real photos are real guys i would say you're not a real photographer unless you have a real camera that's how we go welcome to the goalpost podcast we've moved it so many times. Am I the only one that agrees with him?

I love to geek. No, I think I kind of technically agree with him in that my definition of a photo, like if you just have light hitting a sensor, but it's off, nothing happens. And I think the second that the sensor is on and has to turn that light information into data, it is being processed and it is now in the realm of no longer actually no it's a photo a photo yeah i would say it's not a photo it's not a photo yeah yeah okay if we if we go by the wikipedia definition which i think is a good one i think it's a safe one it brings us back to reality a little bit right it's like

if we go by this and it just says an image created by light falling on a photographic surface such as a photographic film or electronic image sensor we can just say everything is a photo but it was but like a smartphone photo was heavily altered by ai or multi-frame HDR. All things are photos, but how were they altered? So the output isn't a photo? No. I can't wait for the next Verge article.

It is an altered photo. It's an altered photo. Which is why it has a little watermark of stars that you can then remove. But only the AI ones. Until you automatically remove it every photo is an altered photo unless you take it on a real

camera it's Schrodinger's images and actually those are altered there are no because of JPEG compression anyway so wait what we officially have gone nowhere this is a six hour podcast we have gotten somewhere and that is a stupid thing to say.

Maybe don't put that in. Maybe if you're an executive, don't throw us under the bus like this. Oh, I feel like they're already getting ready to quote Marques for the next time they talk about this. That would be a mistake. Credit us all, please. Or don't.

Comment in the comment section about what a real photo is. I think it's a great time to take a break. I think I need a smoke break. It's Trivia Season 4. Season 4. The question is, what is a photo? Everyone is tied up. Zero, zero, zero.

First question. What is a photo? First question. What were the five? Yes, five. iPhone 5C colors. You have to get all five. To get a single point whoa yep all or nothing proposition what is a color denied colors aren't real yeah what is your proposition actually uh everything but green everything but yes yes keep

going keep going yes okay no. We'll think about that. They're all pale. I remember that. Because they're plastic. Pale plastic colors. Did C stand for cheap? It stood for cheap. It stood for C. Colorful.

And we'll be right back. Thank you, Alice. Want to become up to 50% wealthier? Paying $0 in management fees with Quest Wealth Portfolios can help you get there. All you need to do is make a new deposit before December 31st, 2024 to pay $0 in management fees on net new deposits until the end of 2025. Lower fees means you can keep more of your money where it belongs in your account. Don't wait. Opening an account is quick and easy. Switch to Quest Wealth Portfolios today and keep more of your money. Conditions apply.

All right, welcome back. Let's talk about we got like two more sections that are fairly focused, unlike the last section. The last section was focused up until we... I think we did an admirable job of not... Okay. It was very second half of podcast to start. Google, Google, chaos. I thought I was smart. I never did.

This middle section, we can talk Vision Pro updates because there are some Vision Pro updates already. We learned some new things and it's also gotten an update. The main fun thing, is it fun? I don't know. Derek, everything, he did his usual taking apart and durability testing. Fun fact, like one of the top comments on our video

about Vision Pro was, I can't wait for this to be, scratches at level six with deeper at level seven. Like that was like a 40, 000 like comment on our video turns out it scratched at level two with deeper groups at level three so we're trying to figure out what's going on if you watch zach's video apple does claim the vision pro has laminated glass on the front which is less scratch resistant but more crack resistant potentially um it kind of is like a screen protector that comes pre-installed on a phone so you can and we actually have accidentally already gotten a little scratch on the outside of the vision pro ideally this will

not affect the performance of the vision pro also update it was actually scratches level three with deeper grooves level yeah my bad i wrote that down wrong yeah got it so yeah it's it's notably not just glass on the outside of the vision pro yeah it still smudges like glass it's still fingerprints like glass that carrying cloth that they give you i think it's actually good to use it all the time because i suspect that the sensors are trying to see through the smudges and the cleaner you can keep it the better the performance will be so that's all good to know but yeah that outside layer is a little bit of a composite going on yeah and if you scratch it over those sensors that's bad we were talking about apple care for this thing and apple care for the vision pro is five hundred dollars but what it

gets you is five hundred dollars off of replacing the outside glass so it would normally be like eight hundred dollars but now it's 300 with apple care i guess like it's a little different so it's five hundred dollars over two years if you break the glass it costs 299 to replace so if you break it one time it costs about eight hundred dollars which if you break it without apple care it costs about eight hundred dollars but it's a little better if you break it one time, it costs about $800, which if you break it without AppleCare, it costs about $800. But it's a little better if you plan on breaking it more than once in two years. Right. Because then you only pay another $300.

Right. That's like the worst AppleCare. You're basically losing money if you don't. You should get AppleCare if you plan on breaking it more than once. Basically. Over two years. Over two years over two years yeah the thing is and that's this is one of those new form factors for apple anywhere where i kind of we're about to get a lot of data on how

often this thing breaks when you pick it up i think a lot of people's instinct is to pick it up by the light seal but it's just a magnetically attached like lightweight plastic thing yeah and if you pick it up by the light so you could just drop the headset you have to like remember to pick it up by the metal and it's kind of weird to pick it up by the glass on the front because i think i'm smudging it every time i do yeah so it's kind of an interesting learning curve there i would say like well when we have the dual loop one on that's easy to just grab the top loop because it feels right but yeah all the all the time i'm like oh i'm about to pick up the glass i don't want to smudge it so i just pick up the light seal and then like it like starts falling off and i catch it yeah it's yeah with the quest i just grab the front

i don't care because it's just plastic on the front mostly during our demo sessions they specifically were like put your thumb in the center where the uh nose bridge is and then put your other fingers on the top so on the metal part yeah you pick it up that way and then you do that but it's like that that's so specific. It says real, you're holding it wrong, guys. Apple has had specific holding instructions before, we'll put it that way. Yeah.

Yeah, so watch Zach's video. It's linked in the description. It is pretty detailed. I would never be able to do what he does with a knife in the Vision Pro. It's also really cool because he rips all the cloth interior and the screens out and like seeing the inside of it even he says it's like it is very it's beautiful inside just how well it's put

together it is people kind of gave me a little bit of flag for that when i said this thing is very efficiently built it actually is even though yes it is metal and has a lot of glass and those choices are not efficient but with those things that they've decided to do the thing is tightly compact maybe us humans aren't efficient enough for the glory that is vision pro it has carbon fiber uh magnesium uh multiple motors and hinges fans vents glass computers dedicated processing chips ram battery on the side it's got a lot it's got a lot of it's got a lot of lightning yeah like it's really funny so the someone right before it officially came out uh had in the on the battery put a sim removal tool in the battery to pop out that non-removable cable and it turns out it's

like lightning plus but it looks just like even better the cable the like connector that connects the headphone portion of it to the rest of the headset is like lightning max so i have that even because i bought the development cable oh yeah which plugs directly in so you'd have to take the sim card tray ejected or whatever and plug this in to get USB out straight out of the Vision Pro. And so, yeah, I've got this giant, slightly curved lightning cable. And there's just lightning everywhere. Yeah, this thing, they can't help themselves. They love their little lightning pins.

I saw an article earlier today that was just like, that says it's a $300 developer strap, right? It is, yeah. And apparently, sorry. I paid $300 for that. Apparently apparently it's only usb2 also what why i guess there's only going to be a number of developers that do that and they probably don't care about speeds except for us but we're not developers i mean you're you're loading your app onto the vision pro you're like testing and and loading nicer faster but they probably don't we bought it because we wanted to hope that it's potentially gonna let us feed back video in the actual 4k

without stuttering the device so right in that case we would like speed in terms of sending it back but i have a feeling it's not gonna do that i'm gonna try i'll keep you posted if it works yeah we'll see yeah no casey's video on the Vision Pro is also pretty incredible. I've seen that. Yeah. He like walks around New York City and everyone's got a different like angle to look at Vision Pro. His was just like walking around with it and seeing people's reactions like vintage Casey around the city. And some of the scenes in that video are hilarious.

Like him in the donut shop. I don't know. This is the thing about like using the Vision Pro. There are all kinds of videos now of people wandering around outside using the vision pro and they're all going viral and they're all really dystopian and oh we're so screwed this guy's behind the driver's seat they're all fake 75 of them are either fake because you see them doing all sorts of gestures that actually don't make sense in the vision pro yeah or they're just weird decisions to use it in that place like i feel like we talked about this last time i use it half in the same sort of time that i would have used an

ipad like there's a video of a guy crossing the street like moving windows around like i wouldn't be on my ipad crossing the street yeah windows yeah yeah yeah um but you could in the vision pro so they're doing it anyway casey has has this scene where he's in a donut shop, and he loads up the dinosaur demo, which comes pre-installed, and literally has the butterfly land on a donut, and it cuts back and forth to him with this incredibly immersive experience and a dinosaur and a butterfly landing on a donut, and it cuts to the outside, and there's people watching a guy

holding a donut up. It doesn't look it's hilarious i love that video i want to know how loud his volume is on that because that is just dinosaurs roaring like very loud it's the loudest app on the vision yeah it's so loud i love um captain disillusion had a tweet about somebody using it on the subway and he said went out in public and someone glances at me for a microsecond too long i rush a trick if maybe a strand of hair is slightly out of place i could never do this wearing vision pro in public is a choice is a choice i have been very vocal about my desire to use it on a plane i have to admit there's a little part of me that's a little worried about what that looks like yeah but i'm

gonna do it anyway i think that it will become normalized you know i think normalized in not in public like on agree exactly that's exactly what i was gonna say but on the plane yeah yeah yeah because you would you'd have an ipad on the plane or an ipad in random places and that's fine yeah i don't think it will be yeah it will not be normalized as this like walking around so that we're seeing people especially because you have to like if you actually want windows to do anything you have to pinch them and bring them with you or else they just disappear so it literally makes no sense it's been really funny people have been like this is the only product where i can legitimately lose virtual displays throughout my house like

where did i leave that there was this really funny viral photo where someone's like oh that's where i left it and youtube was just in in front of the toilet that's exactly what happens and it just stays there it just stays there which is incredible it's a feature yeah it is a feature because a lot of people like the idea is throughout your house in different like media centers like in front of your computer hub you've got certain apps and then sitting on the couch you've got a giant screen like where your tv might be and for that kind of use case that's pretty cool that you can just use one headset to like replace a lot of products yeah again it is only an isolated device

that you cannot enjoy with anyone else in your life so if you're lonely and sad like me maybe it's a great product but um for everyone else it it might be a problem. I have a bunch of things that have been coming to my mind over the past couple of days that I think I may turn into a video, which is what I think would be the best things to improve for the next Vision Pro. I don't think it's going to be a yearly product necessarily. We got AirPods Max years ago

and we're still waiting for the second gen. I think Vision Pro is going to live for a little while before we see the next one. But for the second Vision Pro, one of the things you're talking about, shared experiences, I think that would be such a natural and enormous advantage for Apple is to make everyone with Vision Pros

be able to share experiences with each other. To be able to look at the same object in the same room. Now you might not think that's particularly useful, but let's say I'm in an office in California and someone else is in an office in Mexico and we both open the same 3D object in front of us and we manipulate it and show it to each other. Just that connecting of the same thing would be huge.

I was surprised that that's so far not really a thing right that's one of the most like the comments i've seen the most is just like cool it has a lot of these other things and super well made but like my quest 3 i can go visit someone who's nowhere near me and we can do something together and like that's such a cool part of vr what's that called uh something room there's a something a rec room yeah rec. Yeah, rec room. It's hilarious. But the fundamental purpose is you are in the same room as someone else wearing the headset. Also VR chat. Yeah.

They're hilarious. They're super fun. So like that, I'm shocked that that doesn't exist for Vision Pro. There's another app, the Sky Guide, which is like all the constellations in the sky. They have a laser pointer feature. So I can like point at the lasers and like show them in the sky. But like no one can see what I'm looking at. I'm like pointing lasers at the sky. What's the point of the laser if nobody else can see it? Yeah, exactly. So that's like point at the lasers and like show them in the sky. But like no one can see what I'm looking at. I'm like pointing lasers at the sky.

What's the point of the laser if nobody else can see it? Yeah, exactly. So that's like my number one. Number two is you can leave windows around your house, for example. When you pack up the Vision Pro and bring it to a new place, like let's say your office, you can start opening windows again and they will disappear from your house and open in the new place. So if I have Safari open at home

and I go home, sorry, so if I have Safari open at home and I open up a window and I put YouTube in front of the toilet and then I drive to the studio and I open it up and I open up Safari,

it's still there and I need to either grab that window from there or try some other things. So I want to be able to have saved environments where the pins load back up where I was. I agree. So I can come back home at the end of the day. And even though I use Safari at the office, YouTube is still pinned. They're like expecting that you're only going to use in one space, which is kind of silly. Yeah.

Did you ever play Skate 2? Or I think Skate 3 did the same mechanic. I don't think so. In either of those Xbox games, you could drop your board and just run around on your feet to climb ladders and stuff like that. And no matter where you were in the game, you could leave your board miles away.

If you hit one of the triggers, you just stick out your hand and go, yep. That's what we need. Yeah. No, that's what's happening. That's what's happening. That's what's happening.

You're summoning all of your stuff. What I want to do is be able to leave the skateboard and then have a new skateboard for this new part and then go back to where the old skateboard was and it's right where I left it. I get it now. We want to be able to like get home, immediately load up the home environment

and then all the windows are where I want them to be in my home and then when you get to the studio it loads it up and they're all in the studio i just find it funny that i now also have to clean up my virtual world as well as my actual house you can just say hey s close everything and it will and then your life ends and then everything closes including you you will be field of view starts shrinking no yeah i so those are my two big vision pro like feature requests that i think would make a massive difference to the way people use vision pro there's all sorts of other little things i want the field of view to be wider i want the battery life to be longer blah blah we get the weight the weight sure but you know i think that might be a video we end up putting together i think yeah it's truly wild to me that they don't have more share play stuff yeah because it seems

insane that they could easily be like oh we both have an 80 inch tv now that we could just like watch together but we don't actually have to have a tv there the closest thing is facetime does let you share your view because obviously you can't hold things up to your camera when it's your persona so you can hit this button where it shares your view and then through a window you can see the first person view of what the front of that person's vision pro sees so that's just like the regular you do that on an iphone yeah i was gonna say it's just like flipping your butt it's two hands instead of one because it's on your face. So that's kind of cool, but it's not what we were hoping. I feel like that's me saying like,

Claire, let's both watch this movie together. And I watch it in that. And then I give her an iPad that's showing what I'm seeing and she could just watch it on the iPad. It'd be cool if they had like family groups and then you could set up what apps people could automatically see.

So like if you were okay with your partner seeing what you had open on Safari or whatever, you could just say, they can always see my Safari windows people could automatically see so like if you were okay with your partner seeing what you had open on Safari or whatever you could just say they can always see my Safari windows floating but then if you had another app that you didn't want them to see when they walked by they wouldn't see it yeah yeah the thing about vision Pro and many other Apple devices is Apple does not want you to share them they want you to buy another one yeah true and that's the most like iPad thing ever they don't have multiple profiles on the ipad and that's the most

obvious it's the most obvious thing buy your kid an ipad i just learned that the other day it's insane so they want you to buy another ipad yeah and i think the vision pro will forever be that also as long as it's apple doing apple things painful Anyway, there is an update to some of the software. It's still in beta, but there is a developer update to the Vision Pro. I don't even know if they have an OS number. Is it like 1.1 or something? 1.01, I think.

So the main thing that people are noticing is it's improving the personas a little bit. I looked at the before and after of some of their posting and it doesn't look that different to me. But this is the one thing that is so notably in beta that people are keeping an eye on how the personas evolve over time so it's evolving over time it's it has begun they're going to continue to make these look i imagine slightly more realistic and slightly more complete over and over again over time oh it is 1.1 not 1.01 okay yeah but still beta yes yeah yeah so there's that and then keep an eye on it

also uh before this 1.1 update if you forgot your vision pro password you were just boned like there was nothing you could do yeah so but now they have a way to reset the vision pro if you forget your password through your ip? Or just like on it? I'm not sure. Okay. I just know you now can. Okay, that's good. Great.

Yeah, because I have, what's the ID called again? Optic ID. Optic ID. I have that. But every time you boot it up, you do need to put in your password or passcode. Yeah. So that's good to know. All right. Yeah.

Vision Pro updates, everybody. It's happening. Another update I would love for the vision pro is to never see it on my social feeds ever again because for the last week um there has been no other content and i'm really annoyed we say that as we talk about the vision pro for the seventh podcast don't worry i got your one plus 12 review coming right up thank you that's we should scrap that breaker nice little combo breaker for your feed thank you i got you i need it all right we do have a whole nother section that is totally focused

after the break so before we get into that let's do trivia i think i should make that pause longer and longer every time the pause? Before we get into it. Let's do trivia. And I just can't. Have you seen, okay, so the NBA, sorry, this is a, the NBA highlights,

the guy who voices over the NBA.com highlights every day on YouTube. The Goatmentator? Yes. He's got this like incredible style where he like says, and you know,

here, I'll just play an example. He'll go over the NBA highlights for the day. And at the end of every video, he says, and here, I'll just play an example. He'll go over the NBA highlights for the day. And at the end of every video, he says, and that's been your NBA.com top 10. And people started noticing he started saying it faster and faster every single time. Derek Favors with the big smash, number one on the NBA.com.

Top 10. Big smash. Number one on the NBA.com. Time to act. Dude's got more range than a cell tower. Watch him go off the glass with class to send the game into OT. Russell Westbrook, number one on the NBA.com. Time to act. That's a goat. So anyway. We're doing the opposite of that.

That's fucking amazing. But he does go, calm down. Wow. He only does that for himself, but I love it. Wow. All right. I don't remember. Epic.

Yeah. That's where we were. Are the lights doing different things they look a little brighter that's because David was singing oh oh ah oh that's literally why they oh oh nice all right trivia and just because I want to kick off this season with a bang, we're going to make this question worth three points.

Tres leches. Let's go. Are you ready? What are the three leches? That would be a good question. That's actually a great question. Leche numero uno. Sorry, okay, yes.

Yes, three points. Yes. Three points. Samsung, one of the biggest companies in the world, can have its name translated into English as three stars. Each one of those stars represents something. What? Just send it.

That's it. Three things. We all have to name three things. The answers are going to be so good. What does each star? Life, liberty, stand for. Or suit of ethics. I don't.

Okay. Wow. This is a real shot in the dark. Sorry. I had to come up with a question really fast. No pseudopathics. I don't. Okay. Wow. This is a real shot in the dark. Sorry, I had to come up with a question really fast. No, I love it. I love it. I love it. We'll be back after this break.

The Cybertruck, the R2, and the Porsche Taycan. All right, let's go. Okay. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. You've always wanted to be part of something bigger than yourself. You live for experience and lead by example. You want the most out of life and realize what you're looking for is already in you.

This is for you. The Canadian Armed Forces, a message from the government of Canada. All right, welcome back to the Wave Forum podcast. You might have heard the EV in my voice there. I did. forum podcast you might have heard the ev in my voice there i did we've got three evs that have major interesting stories about them that we should talk about they are porsche tycan rivian and tesla cyber truck where should we start do you want to flip a three-sided coin a pyramid wait yeah it's four What? That's four sides. Well, but a D3 is pyramid shaped. Yeah, but what? The base doesn't count.

Rivian R2. Rivian R2. Oh. Okay. Thanks, Three-Sided Die. Rivian R2 is pretty sick. Okay, we don't actually know anything about it, but the idea of it is pretty sick, right?

So we got this announcement. March 7th, we are going to learn something about this next rivian platform but this entire time and we've interviewed rj on this podcast before and talked about it is rivian has been very clear that the rivian r1t and r1s are built on the r1 platform and they are their most capable most premium vehicles and they are planning to do a less expensive still capable but possibly slightly smaller r2 platform that's all we know we know nothing about the vehicles that will be on the platform or any of the details and march 7th we're going to find out some of that stuff and i'm excited i think we're all excited i have a

question i'm very excited um did he specifically say smaller and i'll tell you why i'm asking that's a good question i would have to double check he might not have explicitly said smaller well good let's just pretend he didn't say that so then i can speculate here and make a conversation out of absolutely nothing okay okay so engadget had an article that said the r2 platform is expected to start with a smaller suv but then said reportedly about the size of a jeep grand cherokee which are grand cherokee compared to an r1s is barely very similar sized the wagoneer is the big one yeah but still the jeep grand cherokee i'll pull up you've seen that car grand cherokee three rows i don't think it is i don't think it is but it's still fairly

big have you ever been on cars you know car sized right yeah really awesome website if no one's ever been to it where you can put two cars and they go right next to each other i grew up on a grand cherokee yeah but a grand cherokee just changed size a lot since i thought you grew up in jersey um 2022 i'm wondering if engagement meant a just a cherokee a jeep cherokee which is smaller and more closer to like a Forester, which is I want so bad, but a Rivian or one, the big difference here might be three rows versus two rows. So that's what I'm wondering. Cause I, I'm hoping it doesn't get that large. Yeah. So the R1S, if you've seen our review, it is three rows and it is a wonderful vehicle, but let's be real. The third row is very small small but they've jammed three rows into it that's very similarly sized right it is similar but you got a couple inches off and it's

two rows so now you have two normal full-size rows and a big trunk yeah which i think is what a lot of people also so that's what i'm wondering like if it's just the like less capable version it would still be very similarly sized but maybe doesn't have triple motor and max battery pack and like all these crazy like crawling features and like off-roading and whatnot which i hope it's more of a just smaller version i think that's what rj means by less capable like the r1t right now the flagship the launch edition this thing is a quad motor 800 horsepower pickup truck that's the cherokee yeah that's a lot smaller yeah yeah that's a different class of vehicle yeah i think i think what he means by less capable is you could easily go single or dual motor you can go less horsepower you can go

less crazy tire setup you can go even less features. Like the thing has a flashlight in the door and a Bluetooth speaker under the armrest and all sorts of other things. And he was clear mostly about them wanting to keep the adventuriness of it. So they might choose to keep some of the fun frills that make it characterful, the headlights, the front trunk, et cetera.

But yeah, it'll be a balancing act for them to like cut corners that meaningfully reduce the cost, but don'tfully reduce the character that's why i think you would aim towards smaller size because like if the rumor seems to be 40 to 60 and i feel like if you have something that's only a couple inches smaller and that big that's a much cheaper or maybe that rumor is just totally wrong 40 to 60 is interesting like when i look at their range right now, they're at like model S and X prices with their flagships. So to go down to 40 to 60 is right around model three and model Y. So maybe. I feel like I'm psyching myself out for what I want this to be and worried

about it. Yeah. I would love like a Subaru Outback style car or a sedan as I am a city dweller. And unfortunately, I don't think that's happening until the third generation. I mean, an Outback wouldn't be that dissimilar. I would, I think just this.

Well, yeah, I think a Forrester, no, a Forrester even more so would be a smaller version of this. Yeah. Which I could get down with for sure. I would love love that's what i want a city still pretty good range still quiet yeah smooth lots of storage i would like that yeah that's what i'm hoping for yeah yeah so the way that um there was a leak about the day that the event was going to happen that was very hilarious there was a town board meeting

that happened in uh santa monica i believe it was um so wherever they're having the event in southern california laguna beach yeah laguna beach oh right because they bought that movie theater down there and turned it into a rivian showroom that's not what happened but or i mean that's not how they found out about the r2 platform oh oh sorry are you just saying i know i was just saying that that's like where they do all their area okay stuff yeah there's like group spent a lot of summers in laguna beach i know the area very well there's this movie theater that had been there since the 60s and everyone really loved it and then rivian it had changed hands a few times rivian eventually bought it and they were like oh that's cool they're

gonna like have a rivian branded movie theater and then they were like psych it's a dealership damn but yeah they uh they had a town like a city hall meeting and one of the things on the meeting list was that they had to approve the r2 launch event because they're going to be parking some r2 vehicles on the grass and so they had this document that just said like rivian r2 launch event yeah and rivian had not said anything but the town hall notes are public so it was really funny like it's a funny way to get found that leak i don't know they were on it no yeah never you never know who's maybe some random person who works for the town is going to be like wait yeah right someone there probably likes rivian no no laguna beach is like when you're on the everyone there is very wealthy um and everyone there loves evs so it's it's the only place i've

ever been where like like i'd say like 60 to 75 percent of cars on the roads are electric there wow and and it's all the like the rare ones like the what's the brown one i like that the lucid yeah you see a lot of lucids that was the best way of describing a lucid ever lucid that long brown that long brown one that i have a fan of yes it's not it's not mustang machi country it's like Rivian and Tesla. Every time I'm in Southern California, every other car is a Tesla. Generally a Model Y or Model X. We get it. You're from Cali.

No, there's a lot. I'm not from Southern California. That's going to be prime R2 country. From the east side by Nevada. Okay, wait. So speaking of premium EVs, there's two others we want to talk about. Yeah.

Taycan or Cybertruck? You can go Taycan. Taycan. Okay. All right. Yes. There's a Taycan facelift. Yeah, I'm really excited about this.

I can't afford it, but I'm really excited about it anyway. So the Taycan we already knew was Porsche's premium EV sedan. It's still expensive. It's still going to start at like $106,000 or something like that. But it got a facelift, which has new, more efficient, higher mileage, and faster models. And they charge way faster, which is really impressive. I mean, if you find the charger that will support this exact thing. Which they said they're like installing.

Of course. They're always installing. They always say they're installing them. But the details are there's a new the base tycan uh which now has a 79 kilo i think that's the same size a 79 kilowatt hour battery on the small end yeah but there's a 93 kilowatt hour option and there's now a 105 kilowatt hour option yeah and so you're getting now well over 300 estimated miles i think the turbo s is 390 miles of range, I believe is the number, and also does 0-60 in 2.3 seconds and has up to 940 horsepower.

Holy crap. Still dual motors, still a Taycan, still looks almost the same. There's like one or two aerodynamic bits that's different, but also the charging curve for these new batteries, thanks to new cooling, is crazy high. I think they get up to 320 kilowatts and they stay at 320 kilowatts for not just the first two seconds of charging, but for a long duration of charging.

So we're seeing something like zero to 80% in 18 minutes. And that's zero to 80. Imagine you pull up with like 12%, you want to charge up to 50% real quick. That's like plug in, go buy a snack and you're you're good wow so that's exciting that's like that's the type of innovation we hope to see with evs again they don't build their own charging network you're probably not going to get those speeds through an adapter at a tesla supercharger that's just the realest the realest the real

ness the real are you rapping that's just the real situation um but yeah no i'm i'm excited about the new power trans new batteries can i say something about this yeah all right if apple put out a version of the iphone that was called the iphone solar and then it didn't have solar panels on it but we're just like no it's just like a vibe thing like it just sort of like felt like like a solar we would all be like that's a lie you're a liar and i'm upset it would all be like, that's a lie. You're a liar. And I'm upset. It would only be okay if they already had products in their lineup with the word solar in it. That had solar panels, right? That would make it even worse if they put out one called solar that didn't have solar.

I see where you're going. You know where I'm going with this, right? I know exactly where you're going. Why the heck are we all going to let them call an electric car a Turbo S? Do they not already have a car? Because Turbo in Porsche's lineup just means fast insane but turbo for the longest time in porsche language means the fastest one i'm gonna make this a short point but i just want to you know calling something that's naturally aspirated

turbo is one thing calling something that is not aspirated whatsoever a turbo is pretty well what does aspirated mean? Oxygen? Just an engine that, yeah, does not have turbochargers. That force induction from a turbocharger shoving air into it. Got you. So, yeah, turbo means fast. All right, a couple of really fun things about this car. One, it is finally going to have the more integrated car play,

which they say is more integrated and more immersive. So actually seeing one of these is going to be awesome and i think it would be really great to get one in for review just to play with the car play imagining just a vision pro just drops down like like the breathing things in a plane yeah um also there's going to have an option to have this new push to pass button which for 10 seconds gives you a 60 70 kilowatt boost so if you're passing someone on the highway it becomes much easier to just be like you know what they could have done there to one make that sound cool push to pass button boring turbo button then you

can call it the turbo without having to worry about having an actual turbo i don't know better it should be they should have just like backronymed NOS and then called it the NOS, but made it an electrical backronym. They could have called it Super VOOC. The more I think about it, and we were talking about this with Miles, the more I think about it,

like this is clearly the Turbo S of this new refresh is the Model S Plaid competitor. Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I think this is going to stratify the tesla people and non-tesla people because i think the plaid is still going to beat this in a straight line 10 times out of 10 but on a track obviously this will smoke it because it's a porsche and it can handle and it's lighter and all this other stuff and cooling for long laps will keep you at full

power longer but i think full power on this in normal everyday driving will be very similar to the last taikan turbo s which is really fast yeah but the plaid is this has this superpower where you can drive around feather-footed for a while in plaid mode and then you just decide you want to pass and you stomp it and you don't need an extra button, you don't need a different mode, you just take off. Yeah. And that, I think, was still going to be true. It's just a totally different product. It's very handy for passing people. It's super handy.

It's kind of annoying that you have to press a button now to be able to use. I think that's fun. It is fun. It's even more fun in a gas car, I will say, because the 911 Turbo S has this button. Oh, you have a 911 Turbo S? Yeah. Oh, cool. And it's called a sport response button, and you could be driving around, mooping around

at like 2,000 RPM, and nothing exciting is happening, and then you want to do a pass, and you press the button, and the engine just picks the highest RPM with the most torque, and suddenly you're basically driving an EV. It would only be more fun if it had like a plastic cover they had to flip open with your thumb.

That would be sick. That would be the best. That would be very Lambo though. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say,

do you know what the Taycan has that the Plaid doesn't? A turbocharger? What? A full steering wheel. True. That's actually not true. Oh, the Plaid also has the full steering wheel now. Wait, it does?

Yeah. They ditched the yoke already? I'm not sure for a yoke now. Yeah. Yes. The Plaid, I think it's... Less is more. Yeah, the Plaid's going to be heavier.

It's going to have a large... It has triple motors. It has a slightly larger battery capacity. And it's a Tesla, so it's a different product. Also, wait. We don't know if this has NACS, right? We don't know,

which is something I was very very very interested in because that changes a lot because the big new charging curve can't afford it but if i were to be able to afford it it would change a lot of course i'm just thinking this new charging curve has got to be through certain chargers and i wonder what those chargers are if they're things that can the regular ccs yeah because electrion america has 350 kilowatt chargers out there right now and they'll they'll give the car 350 kilowatts. The regular CCS. Yeah, because Electro America has 350 kilowatt chargers out there right now, and they'll give the car 350 kilowatts as long as it's asking for it. But that's not NACS.

So if I want to go do a road trip and I'm just using Tesla superchargers, I think that's still an adapter, which I don't even know if you can get an adapter from Porsche. A lot of questions unanswered still, I would say. Quick question. We were talking before about 0-80% in 18 minutes. Was there not like the the kia and hyundai's were getting pretty wild numbers on charging rates as well like not that far off from that if not the same so percentage

wise yes okay i think that's the crazy thing these are much bigger batteries that are getting eighty percent okay so like yeah i think the ionic even had like a really great i specifically remember 18 minutes yes it had a really high peak charging and it would, it would spike up 350 kilowatts, but in such a small battery, 350 kilowatts will get you 80% pretty quick. Okay. Where I don't think you're getting 350 miles out of an Ionic.

I think this 390 miles range, like that's really, that's, that's the magic of it. Um, it also has much better recuperation. Does recuperation mean regenerative charging yeah okay so it says that it previously was 290 kilowatts and now it's 400 kilowatts so sick doesn't that seem like an insane amount of power it is

i remember breaking in the hummer ev and seeing like 150 kilowatts that seems like a lot so that's all that's all porsche engineering that's all electrical what porsche does is when you hit the brake pedal in the car yeah that's when it starts the regen and it feels just like you're pressing the friction brakes it's very very good so you can't do one pedal driving in a porsche uh you can have a little bit of lift off regen but i don't know if they have a one pedal driving mode. That's annoying. But what's fun, because they want it to drive like a normal gas car, like the rest of their cars.

But when you get past the 200 or whatever kilowatts of regen braking on the brake pedal, then it starts to blend in the friction brakes as well. So hearing that this will do 400 kilowatts, I could probably slam on the brakes and I'm getting all that energy back. That's crazy. Which is awesome. Yeah. That's pure and i guess that is handy because um usually when i like take off and have to slow down really fast the first thing that hits in my brain is oh man i'm wasting my regenerative exactly exactly so i feel like you'll see the little dial while you're like you'll come on the brakes really hard and you'll still see you're just getting all the energy back that's nice imagining you getting

pulled over and the cop's like sir you, you're really aggressively breaking a bunch. You're like, I'm just charging. Just regen, bro. It is that, yeah. And I think I want to know if this will have one pedal driving as well because that would be sick. That would be nice.

Can we test something with these really good regen? Can we go to the top of a hill, get your battery level, coast all the way down the hill hill slam on the brakes at the stop at the end and see if you have more power than you started with you should i think if you literally slam on the brakes no but i think you can be heavy on the brakes and for a long time yeah and be recuperating all of that energy there's a in San Francisco there's this near like mission mission peaks or super steep yeah there's like this super steep hill and well there's a lot of super steep hills in San Francisco

but I remember seeing a post from someone in like a model Y like a few months ago where they started at the top of there with about 12% by the time they got to the bottom they like 23% left yeah we did that in the model 3 review well really okay never mind that idea yeah no we drove well i mean it was a longer drive but we we drove the model three down out of the uh i forgot the name of the highway pacific well some highway angels angels crest yeah oh and we ended up with like 10 percent more than we started with at the bottom of the hill. So it's real. It's pretty cool.

Regents pretty useful. Thanks. All right. Last EV. The biggest. It's the biggest EV as well. The Cybertruck. Mostly because people have been out in the real world living with it and owning a non-clear coated stainless steel truck for a little while.

And it seems like it is actually prone to some small rust spots if you get like debris stuck to your car for a while i guess i don't know exactly how it's working but i see so it's very similar to if you have like a stainless steel grill that's outside even with a cover it is inevitably going to get rust spots on it and i'm sure that this steel is better than the steel being made from those grills but it's very there's pictures out there which is also very funny because there's a lot of forums where this is out there and they're just like you're a liar this isn't real like defending it to the t but stainless steel can still rust it does not mean it is completely prone or like it is never going to rust it's going to rust less but still can cause little rust spots that look terrible and you should be very careful cleaning it i guess or just

like the patina yeah i don't know it just can't stain just can't is that exactly like what it no i was trying to make a joke because you can stain stainless steel there's a lot of people be like well what is it good for there's a lot of people... Well, what is it good for? There's a lot of people who said it's stainless, not stain-proof. Just like how it doesn't stop the rip, but it stops the rip. Exactly.

It also fingerprints a ton. We had it for a day, and there were tons of fingerprints on it. It's going to be an interesting-looking truck. This is an all-time easy decision. You should just wrap it. Tesla should offer wraps. Like, you should be able

to get a wrap. They do offer a black one. Does Tesla? I think so. Oh, well, this is the physically easiest vehicle to wrap because it's flat.

Yeah. And you could probably do it yourself for as little money as possible. It's just going to be so much better looking. I feel like once it gets

dirty and tarnished, though, it's going to look amazing gonna look amazing possibly you have to get to the patina phase yeah it's gonna look great at the very beginning and like way after at the very end but like that whole middle part i wish we had one here to drive around and just get like all the salt and all the crap on new jersey roads like if you guys saw the rolls royce video and you were mad at me for not cleaning it that's just what it looks like when you drive places in new jersey in the winter so that on a cyber truck wouldn't look sick maybe i feel like that would look sick maybe tbd there are none in new jersey so we'll have to find out okay yeah they have okay yeah they offer a color paint film for six thousand dollars in ceramic white or stealth black oh i actually didn't know that six

grand is is a little steep for just like... Isn't that usually what a wrap costs? Yeah, but it's a solid color and it's from the factory and it's like the easiest car to... You could get that done for less. Yeah, true. I think. True. Anyway. Okay. Well, that's all we had for the wave

form. The white one looks kind of nice. Not gonna lie. That would get dirty faster though. If you thought the rust spots were bad and you want a white truck, I have bad news for you. Who gets a wrapped black Cybertruck and is like,

oh yeah, stealthy. No one knows who I am. There was a great tweet. This might be the most delusional tweet I've ever seen, but it was like, you could pull up up with a cyber truck to the valet at a five-star hotel and it just wouldn't look weird it's the only truck you could do that with and i was like what are you talking about when i say five star they mean like super fancy like it's the only truck you could pull up to a valet service at a nice hotel and it wouldn't look out of place if you pulled up to an insane asylum it would look weird there's nowhere that truck what i would agree with

is that like it looks expensive because it's so like bespoke and strange and so pulling up to a nice hotel in an expensive bespoke strange car is more normal than pulling up to a very fancy hotel in an f-150 yeah that's the only part of that that's the highest nf-150 is like a hundred thousand dollars yeah i do yeah i know what david's i you should agree with david but i don't want to agree with i ended yeah exactly i reluctantly agree with david i think theian would look pretty fire plump yeah that's a good point it's also an expensive fancy car it just has to look somewhat unique the Rolls Royce Cullinan

the Hummer EV that would look normal imagine asking a valet driver to drive the Hummer EV into the parking garage did I tell you guys about the Rivian valet driver in New York who like crashed your car no he said it though.

He said he crashed it? All right, we'll end with this. I parked, I went to an Apple briefing for the Vision Pro a couple weeks ago and I drove into the city and I drove the Rivian and I almost regretted it, but I did find parking in this little valet parking lot and I parked there and I gave the guy the keys and he parked it. And when I came back from the briefing, I saw another Riv rivian an r1s and it was green and i said oh another rivian he's like oh yeah i love these things man but dude these are the fastest reversing

vehicles i have ever driven i dude i crashed this thing reversing not that long ago it's crazy i was like wow that didn't happen to mine right that's crazy man and then he's like anyway here's your keys i like went over and like inspected the crap out of my car. Anyway. At least you weren't the test bed for it. Good times. Yeah. Good times.

But I can vouch. It is a very fast reversing. It is the fastest reversing car I've ever driven. Dang. In case you were wondering. Dang. R2 better also be fast reversing. All right.

It's time for trivia. Trivia, dude. So, quick update on the score. Nothing. Nice. Everyone's got zilch. Starting from scratch. All right.

First question. Is that good? What were the first five iPhone 5C colors? And I need all of the colors that were released for the 5C. I'm going primaries. I'm not like specifying what type of green it was. Exactly. I just want straight what was the color.

And you have to get all five or you don't get the point. That's okay. Take your time. Andrew, don't look so confused. I feel like this one's a gimme. It's not a gimme it's not a gimme it's not as a lot getting any five of anything right perfectly is a lot what do you have to do it five numbers get to do it in order uh zero one two three four correct all. Flip them and read. Oof. Oh. David, what do you got? I wrote pink.

Correct. Green. Correct. Blue. Correct. Yellow. Yes. Orange.

No. Wrong. Andrew, what do you have? Well, I know I'm wrong because I don't have pink. Yeah. What do you have? I swore there was an orange one. I don't have pink.

You don't have pink. And I also have orange. Oh, so then wrong. Marques. Yeah. All right. Let's try it. I said green. Yes. Yellow yes pink flesh left salmon sure white correct

oh white was right I have white yeah but I have orange orange right and not pink you know it's pink pink is okay and they were all pale yeah they were all pale. Yeah, they were all like a... There was a white one? For the C? Yeah. White is every color, technically. Score update? Score update, Marques won.

Everybody else... I'm carrying the one by myself. To be fair, everyone else's score is in a superposition between 1 and 3. But I guess you're in a superposition between one and three but i guess you're in a superposition between two and between one and four wait yeah what no they're between because you haven't answered the next question which is worth up to three points oh right question number two samsung can be translated into three stars.

What do each of those stars stand for? Why would I know this? I don't know. I can't believe a Samsung PR person hasn't mentioned this to you. I was just going to say that. Also, it's worth three points. So rack your brains. One for each or three total?

One for each. so rack your brains one for each or three total one for each not doing the not doing the difficult thing yet this early in the season

alright what do we got with this I mean this company is pretty old oh no I got this wrong I'm so wrong they definitely

it's like Nintendo who was like a playing card company before they were a video game company. They were in the 19th century. All right. Oh my God. Oh, we went kind of closer.

Red, green, and blue. Okay. That would have been good. I wrote earth, water, air. Dang. It's actually fire, fire, fire. I wrote household, mobile yeah i wrote computers life and convenience sorry guys it is something big something numerous and something powerful what

what's this question, Ellis? What? Took him out of me. I got fooled by a fake survey and I had to think on the fly. Can you explain this? No. David, you know I can't explain it. I had to look this up 35 seconds ago. So confused.

So we all learned something today. And that is that I'm winning trivia right now. By one point. That is correct. Marquez is carrying the one. That's huge for me. That's really going to set my weekend off on the right note. I hope it sets everyone else's weekend off on the right note too.

Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Thanks for subscribing, most of all. And we'll catch you guys in the next one. Peace. Bye. Wait for us. Produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. uh thanks for subscribing most of all and we'll catch you guys in the next one peace bye waveform is produced by adam alina and ellis rovan we're partnered with vox media podcast network and our intro outro music was created by vane silk one take wonder you earth wind fire leches these were the three elements earth wind and legends earth wind fire