Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - There Are Problems With This Humanoid Robot

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

In this Halloween special edition of Waveform the crew celebrates spooky season! First, Marques, Andrew, and David debate the struggling iPhone Air before talking about how the new Neo robot is too good to be true. Then David explains Adobe’s latest AI-powered creative tools and gets way too excited about the Boox Palma 2 Pro e-reader. It wraps up with a chaotic blind Halloween candy ranking that ended up being the most cursed candy list ever. Enjoy! 🎃 Links: Fortune - iPhone Air sales: https://fortune.com/2025/10/22/apple-iphone-air-demand-weak-production-cuts-vs-17-pro/ @avstorm on X - YouTube animations: https://x.com/avstorm/status/1983066476144886019 WSJ - Neo robot video with Joanna Stern: https://youtu.be/f3c4mQty_so?si=wiD04Y6fCOyPaHFa MKBHD - New Robot video: https://youtu.be/j31dmodZ-5c?si=qHMqhrDOYkSCEFto Adobe Max keynote: https://www.adobe.com/max/2025/sessions/opening-keynote-gs1.html This episode brought to you by: Life360: https://www.life360.com (code: wave) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/MKBHD Miro: https://www.miro.com Zapier: https://www.zapier.com/wave T-Mobile: https://www.t-mobile.com/switch Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Morning, Zoe. Jeff Bridges. still living above our garage. I want to be in a T-Mobile commercial like you. Teach me, Saldana. I couldn't possibly.

At T-Mobile, get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Impressive. Let me try. At T-Mobile, you can save up to 20% versus the other big guys. You heard them. T-Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 pro on us with eligible trade-in in any condition.

Check them out to see how much you could save versus the other big guys at T-Mobile.com slash switch. The first candy. is dots oh wow fucking go all right guys I'm not eating anything

just kidding it's the hardest thing to chew I will eat it yo what is up people of the internet welcome back to a spooky episode of the Wayform podcast we're your host

I'm Marquez I'm Andrew and I'm I was trying to think of a spooky joke but I didn't come in time you should just say I'm iCloud I'm your eye cloud password Your full eye cloud. If you're watching this in video form,

then you can currently see that everyone is wearing some form of a costume. Because it's Halloween. And this is uploaded on Halloween, and we're in a Halloween spirit. Everyone. Yeah. Well, we'll get into that. But there is plenty to talk about still because this is still being recorded in Tectober. Is this coming out in October?

Yeah. Yeah, it's coming out on Halloween. Okay, great. Perfect. So it's still Tectober when you're listening to this. God, it's been Tectober for so long. I know. I feel like I'm in tech purgatory right now.

And now we have iPhone Air Sales updates. We have a new robot that is real, but also kind of not real, and maybe a rant about it. Adobe updates, nothing 3A light is a new phone. And we're going to end with a little Halloween candy ranking, is what I've been told. And the Books Palma 2 Pro. And David's holding a Books Palma 2 Pro. So that's also up today. From all my enjoyers out there.

Anyway, should we just explain our costumes real quick? just because it probably looks insane to audio or video viewers, but audio viewers can't see. We'll have Adam record a separate little clip of us, like, twirling around that he can put it in. Like a video game select? Yeah. Well, because your costume is pretty full. Full on. I think if this was a competition, I'd be voting for this costume.

That's nice of you. That's thank you. I, so for audio listeners, Moment released this new, like, backpack vest. It's supposed to be like, they released a bunch of new bags, but one of them is, a vest for all your stuff instead of having a backpack, which is weird, but cool. But this one that they sent me looks like a fishing vest.

And at the very last minute, I was like, I don't have a costume. Wait, fishing I could be a fishing scam. So what I've done is I've taken the fishing vest and this really fishing hat thing and I've stickied a bunch of fishing scams all over me

as well as. The fishing pole. Can't forget that. So you know, it's similar to last year's language model where I just stickied a bunch of stuff on something else but it's um puns always win i'll take it i'll take it so that's what i am that's what i am what are you marquez uh i'm grew grew grew is a is a character from a movie called the minions right is the name of the movie despicable me it's called despicable me the minions is a separate movie it is a movie and you might have you might you might know it as the minions movie maybe um and there's a character that has this

exact scarf and I am now him. I am him. And every grue needs a minion. Of course. Of course. Which one of you is it? I don't know. Can you guys tell which one of between Adam and I who's the pirate and who's the minion? It's pretty hard to tell. We'll leave that up to the viewer. Yeah. That's funny. So Ellis is a minion. Alice is a minion. Adam, what are you? Well, I came in as just a pirate and everyone was like, that's not tech. So I grabbed a bunch of VHSs and now I'm a You didn't have to give that away. You could have just said that you did it from the start. No, it's fine.

You'd be like, I'm a pirate here. We are nothing if not truthful on this podcast. Maybe you. You want to figure yourself. The one video medium that literally has no data stream in it. And now it's infinite data. Now you're a pirate too. Got them.

You better see that. It says 99 cents on the front of that. You didn't steal it. You paid for it. Anyway, Andrew, what are you? Andrew, what is this? I'm Ark Browser. Uh.

Wait, explain. Wait, explain. Because I'm a skeleton. Ooh. Ooh. Damn. Damn. Well played.

Deep cut. Well played. I'm mostly just a light-up skeleton with no peripheral vision. I'm still using it. So far. So far. For now. For now.

For now. For now. We're on borrowed time. Wow. Okay. Well, you know what else might be dead soon? Yeah, it's on air. I have not.

It will not be dead soon. Well, history. look whenever you look at trying to predict the future of tech one of the most tried and true ways to do that is to look at the past did you guys know that no and

did you guys know history repeats itself did you know that because it kind of does if you really think about it if you really think about it Apple's been trying to fill this place in their lineup in between the pro phone and the not pro phone for a little while

not even in between they just try to have another phone in the lineup and they have a little bit and they iPhone 12 mini which everyone except one person on earth one minion got rid of tried to use but then eventually got rid of yeah and then they had the 13 mini the next year which fixed the battery the battery and that was kind of it and sales were too anemic for them to continue and it was gone after two generations very quickly after they followed it up with a plus iPhone the plus iPhone also lasted two generations and it was right above the base iPhone it was just a bigger screen

but none of the other pro features. But it also died two generations in. Just didn't sell quite enough. So now here we are in 2025, and Apple's done this crazy, ultra-thin, future of the iPhone type of thing. Very innovative. We all know it's kind of half a foldable,

but they did the iPhone Air. And it's, once again, very interesting phone. And many people were very excited about it. But now here we are, and headlines are popping up that sales are a little bit lower, than Apple's expected and so they are cutting production to less than 10% of the original volume that they were forecasting that they'd be producing at that's a crazy number 90% lower than what they thought they would be producing which to me when I read a headline like this I went to business school for a couple years and I always had a professor that told me that if you give a number without context I will fail you that was his thing he was like if you tell me that sales are you know 10% or whatever or the price of something is $100 and If you don't tell me that the competition is actually $200, or it used to be $100, but now it's $50.

Like, if you don't give me some type of context, I will fail you. And so I see this headline, and it's very spicy, 10% production of what they thought they would need. What were they expecting and what is the actual number? Because when I see the curves of iPhone air, if I'm putting on my Tim Cook hat and I'm the logistics guy and the supply chain guy, I feel like iPhone Air would have a pretty big initial spike among enthusiasts willing to spend $1,000 on a futuristic iPhone, and then it would level off and lower over time. And something like the base iPhone would have a low initial spike, but then it would have a longer tail as normal people who don't buy on day one find out about it and buy the new iPhone. So if I have that, I'm doing my math thing now, if you have that high initial spike and then lower, and we're still in the first like month of the phone coming out, this. expected spike up here and the actual amount could be dramatically different, but it could be the

same shape, or it could be a different tail, or it could be, you know, a totally different expected curve. There's a lot of possibilities that could match this headline of 10% production versus what's expected. That was me rambling. All of that to say, are you guys surprised? Yeah. Just to go on that, it feels like with some other context, maybe that spike isn't that high, because just in a, you know, if you're trying to pre-order an iPhone right now, if you can pre-order an iPhone air. Are you going to wear this math?

Just so your voice is a little muffled. Is it muffled? A little bit. Yeah, put the, if you put it over. There we go. Oh, that does sound better. Yeah. Okay.

Sorry. Yeah. If you're pre-ordering iPhones right now, you can get an iPhone air shipped immediately. If you pre-order any of the other iPhone 17 lineup, it's a two to three week wait time. So it feels like that spike isn't what isn't a big spike off the top. And I mean, like, I know you said enthusiasts potentially buying it, but it's really

hard to have, think of enthusiasts that would want to buy this over like what we're calling the most pro iPhone ever. If I, I picture an enthusiast enthusiast being like, that's what I'm getting. The air is cool, but I'm getting the sweet. So I think that's always true about the pro iPhone. You're always going to have a bigger spike at the beginning because that's, That's what enthusiasts are going to get. The air is interesting because it is more expensive than the base model.

And it is worse than the base model. And so you have to be an enthusiast to decide to get that phone to spend more money and get it because it's thinner and pretty and shiny and stuff. Well, you don't have to be enthusiasts. You could just really like thin, pretty things. Well, I guess on month one, I expect the average person to be just getting the base iPhone and not really spending the extra. And if I'm an enthusiast, I'm getting probably the pro, but also maybe the air. And it's also, the air is like super overrepresented in my like Twitter timeline and on Instagram. And like I feel like everyone who has the air, I know they have the air.

It sounds just like the mini. Sorry, David. I can barely see you on appears. I promise. But this is the mini on Twitter. Everyone's like, no, this is the best thing ever in our space. We love the mini. We long live the mini.

That's true. Sounds exactly like it. This did, this quote of 10% did kind of blow my mind because anecdotally, I've been seeing a ton of iPhone airs. And usually I don't see the brand new tech thing everywhere all the time, even with the brand new iPhone. But I've been seeing a lot of iPhone theirs. I've seen at least like seven or eight just in my neighborhood. So interesting. But I live in New York City.

Do you think? So this is a place where people will buy the new expensive thing and also will buy the fashion thing yeah do you think you're so this is this is like again like the human brain and like perception do you think you're noticing the air more even though you're also seeing pros and just not registering it i see some pros that's a real possibility because i've just been wondering notice yeah i mean you very much notice so yeah it's a it's a possibility but it's just the fact that i'm seeing them at all within the first month that it coming out is kind of like surprising to me. Yeah. I mean, anecdotally, the people that I know that would be buying the air in

my head all got the pros and the pro max. I've seen so many pros because it's so easy to tell when it's sitting in like a car mount. You just see this bright orange big camera plateau. Like in your rear view mirror, you can just be like, that guy's got in the pro. That's so easy. Everyone I know that bought the air is not an enthusiast. Like they bought it because they're like, ooh, pretty. And they universally love it like they're in love with you that's that is such a it's the mini it's a different type of enthusiasts well and if you think about it so like you know how the whole thing with electric cars is that oh you only need this much range not that much range because oh you'll just charge in your in your garage and then you'll just go to the grocery

store and you'll go live in suburbia like it's all those people that are buying the air because the battery life is not that big of a deal to them so they're just more interested in something that's flashy and thin. Yeah. You know? A finally actually new iPhone. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, in supply chain land, like what you said, Andrew, like the iPhone air is available and that means they have extra stock and the other iPhones are not available for maybe a couple weeks, which means they don't have enough stock. In an ideal world, they're all available and have just barely enough stock for the exact correct amount of demand, which is why they make these forecasts and try to supply chain stock stores perfectly. And to me, they just slightly got the ratios off, or maybe more than slightly got the ratios off

of what they expected. I do want to try to run this phone for a little bit. I just don't want to buy it. So I'm not willing to invest $1,000 just to like mess around with something. Yeah, yeah. It's not worth it. It is pretty nice to hold.

It is very nice to hold. Every time I pick someone's up, I'm like, hmm. But, you know, you wonder how long, how long it's going to last before it wears off. Do you think the average, person going into a store just picking up an iPhone that would potentially buy that would be worried about it breaking because of how thin it is do you think that's a concern someone who doesn't watch any of the testing hasn't watched any of our reviews they're just the typical and

not if the salespeople are good yeah you know because i'm sure that's part of their training that's true like when i used to work at best buy mobile we would get like paperwork and stuff and like how the talking points on all the phones and stuff you know that's so interesting yeah apple stores i know they do a good job. Yeah. And I bet Carrier stories, best buys, things like that also are like very convincing. Oh, just get our insurance. Oh, just, you know, it'll be fine. It's terrible. It's definitely not going to break. And then upsell you on AppleCare immediately after. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is titanium. Yeah. Seems pretty strong. Yeah. All right, well, we'll keep an eye on it. We'll see if this thing actually changes in trajectory or if it's almost dead. We'll find out in two years.

Yeah. All right. I also noticed, um, I was liking a YouTube video recently. It was by the autofocus. channel it was on a new portion 9-11 you like your own videos i do i should mention i like every single one of our own uploaded videos do you vote for yourself in the school election too i never ran but if i did you better believe i myself absolutely do you like your own tweets that's the only thing that matters oh no i don't because that used to be a favorite button yeah so i adopted that as like i would like to remember this tweet for later so i don't like my own tweets it was a favorite button anyway um i liked an auto focus channel button and i saw a small animation of attire play and i realized that YouTube has been giving us custom like button animations

on various channels when it auto-detects the type of channel that it is. I don't actually know if the waveform channel gets auto-detected as a type of channel that gets a custom-like button. I don't think it is. I think there should be a tech one also and there isn't.

Yeah. But there's like beauty channels and car channels and all sorts of other things that get custom like button animations and I thought that was pretty cool. There's like a ton of sports ones. Yeah, do you want to go over the list?

There's a tweet. Yeah. There's a whole list. Okay. Okay. Can I ask a question first real quick? I can't read it. Is this based on the video or like the channel? I think it's based on the channel. Okay.

But that I don't actually know if that's true. I have a good way to test this after we, can you go through the list? Yeah. Okay. So there's about 20. Motor vehicles get a car animation. Learning gets an idea bulb animation. There's music for music videos, film, travel gets an airplane, a basketball, a football, a cricket ball, a soccer ball, and a baseball. cooking there's tennis there's cat which is you know honestly yeah cat videos should have cat video there's comedy there is dog there is horror love which i don't really know what that would mean romance which is apparently separate from love weird uh thriller which is separate from horror and tv which is separate from youtube so with that do you think that's channel or tag based

i think it's the type of video yeah i think auto detects the type of video i think it's the type of video i I would say it's the type of... Do you think it does that by tags or by... No. I think it's AI. Can they get rid of tags? I think if you say certain words or have certain title, then it's like, yeah, it's a car video. I'm not getting this.

Is this just on web? This is on mobile. I got it on mobile. I'm not getting it on Android right now. Oh, it's because it's on, yeah, it's on Android. Yeah, you know Google's on platform. Yeah. iOS only, sorry.

Sorry. Really? It's not on Android. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just making a joke. Wait, let me check. That just happens a lot.

has released a lot of features that are iOS only until it comes to Android. No, I got it on the autofocus video, so it is on Android. Okay, I was just kidding. Wait, are there, there are still tags in videos, right? You can still tag a video? Yeah, okay. Okay, Adam, for this episode, can you tag every single one of these? Oh, let's see what happens.

No, we got to pick one, like beauty. You should tag horror over and over and over again. And then what we used to do, to test if it's the tags of the things, we just all have to say car. A lot. Car. Car. Car. Car. Car. Tire. Drive. Car. This car is good. Electric car. Wave form podcast. Car. Wayeve form podcast. WayEV. Electric Vehicle form podcast. I think it's AI that just like looks at a whole bunch of factors and picks the most likely one. Well, we just need everyone of you to press the like button to test it out and let us know. Let us know if you get a certain animation on this video. That'll be sick. I wonder if the clip gets different animation from the main episode. I don't know. What would it be like a microphone exploding or something? Well, there should be a podcast one because it knows what a podcast is.

That's the easiest one to detect. We put it in a playlist called podcast. Yeah. I don't know what more I could do for them. That should be easy. A little microphone shows up. That would be fire. Anyway, yeah, that's new.

You know what else is new? Oh, God. Okay. All right. Where do I start with this? So yesterday I'm on Twitter. And, you know, as I am. I open up the website, and I'm fed a whole bunch of random stuff.

And one of them at the top was someone tweeting at me, hey, Marquez, you should check this out. And so I scroll up, and it's this tweet from a company called OneX, and it's about a robot called Neo. And it's this, like, 10-minute keynote video announcing a new humanoid robot that's available now. Quote. I said, oh, wow, available now.

Quote unquote. You can order this thing. and so I click on it and I watch the whole video and I kind of instantly understand that this is not real but I I close the video and I go home the next morning this morning I wake up and I come in and this video has 15,000 retweets, 26 million views and many more people tweeting it at me asking if I'm going to review it and check it out and how excited I am that this is finally real. And so now I do feel the need to at least share some of my thoughts on it. And it's hard to know where to start. Because I have several opinions that I know are all over

the map and also some of them are controversial. So where do I start? Do we want to kind of like talk about what it is first? Yeah, let's do what it is. You ordered it, right? Okay. Please tell me. Okay. So this robot, it's a five foot six. 66 pound humanoid robot comes in three colors. It's pretty light. Yeah, it's pretty light. It comes in like this light cream color or like a light blue or a black color. And it's humanoid shaped. So imagine it's like kind of fabric covered from head to toe. It has a pair of eyes on the front, which are camera sensors. It has ears on the sides, which are microphones. It has little lights where the ears would be. It's like a walking mannequin. Yeah, it looks exactly like a walking mannequin. And the video shows it walking around in a kind of natural-ish type of way and doing children. all over the house all day so it waters your plants it vacuums the floor it takes the laundry out it folds it puts stuff away it does the dishes it cleans the toilet it just lives at home doing your chores and then when it's done after the four-hour battery life is up it walks back

over to the charger plugs itself in and docks that is a very cool idea like people have been I mean what's the Jetsons robot called like people have been having this idea for forever. Rosie, Rosie, the Jetson's robot. Like, this is an idea humans have loved the idea of a humanoid robot helper for forever. And now with the advent of AI and with all these sensors and all this investment in the category, it feels like it may be more real than ever. Like Tesla's doing this thing and Boston Dynamics has had these humanoid shaped robots and like maybe we're actually finally going to have this thing. So people watch this video and believe that it is now finally here. That being said, I also

watched a Joanna Stern video she has been with the Wall Street Journal for a little bit

and she got a demo in person of this robot so they brought it

to her and it did a whole bunch of this stuff she asked it to wait she

went to a demo area right right so she went to a demo

area a little house that they set up but in person she got

to witness the robot helping her so it would take a glass and bring

it to her with water in it or it would I think load the

dishwasher or something like that a couple tasks that it would do uh a hundred percent of the things that were happening in her demo time were teleoperated it was operated by a guy in another room with a VR headset and controllers a hundred percent of what was happening so when you watch the video again you kind of have to assume that some of what's happening in this keynote video is also teleoperated there are two specific clips where they say oops that it is autonomous. One of them is when the doorbell rings and they ask it to go get the door.

And so it autonomously walks over to the door, waits for the person, sees the person, opens the door, backs up, and lets them inside. And the other is take this waterglass that is now empty from me. And the robot walks over, takes it out of his hand, and walks away. Those are the two clips labeled as autonomous in this video. All of the rest, I assume, are teleoperated. So, where does that leave me? You could, if you wanted to, pre-order this robot. It's $500 a month or $20,000 for outright ownership and priority delivery. That sounds crazy on the surface, but I actually think that's a justifiable price for,

especially the type of person who's going to buy this who sees this as just buying saved time, not a ridiculous price. I have no problem with the price. The problem is it's a $200 pre-order, and they say they'll maybe ship it next year. and I don't believe that they will. Hold on real quick. Where have we heard this before? Can I just clarify really quick?

When you say justifiable price, do you mean justifiable price of everything working correctly or justifiable price of this, like, there's a good chance a lot of this is teleoperated and we're using you? Because like he claims a lot of like, it's not going to be that great off the start. Yeah, great question.

They're selling the dream. And I think that the dream is worth the price. Right. I think that the fully working, fully autonomous robot where you leave home in the morning and you come back at night and everything is done and cleaned up for you every day, you never have to empty a dishwasher or do laundry ever again, that dream is awesome. And I think a lot of people are buying that dream. And I have no problem with the price of that dream. The problem I have is the thing that they're selling is far from that product. And, you know, know, I don't know exactly in this video how much of this stuff is teleoperated. I'm assuming most of it is, but it's like, I can give some leeway on it being a little slow or a little clumsy. It's a first-gen product. This is going to happen.

But if you're an early adopter, you want it to at least work. And I think what they're saying and what Joanna found out from talking to the founder and people of the company is that they're not expecting all of these tasks to be autonomous, even from the beginning, they're expecting some of the stuff to get stuck sometimes and to have a couple of issues, and then someone who works for the company will remote in and teleoperate the robot and peer into your house and fix it for you. And early adopters are going to have to be okay with that. Yeah, effectively, they're saying, it's very confusing.

In the video where he's talking to Joanna, he's like, it'll do most things autonomy when you ship it to you, but also we need to build a world, so the idea is they want to build this world model, quote unquote, which is effectively being able to General AI. Yeah, being able to train the robot to see objects, understand what they are, understand what it's doing, you know, unload your dishwasher, do this stuff. But they don't have enough training data. So what they're trying to do right now is they're trying to get these into a lot of people's

houses because, of course, they've got some lab in the dog patch in San Francisco or something, right? And they're just, they have a few robots that are going around. They're like, okay, we are manually training on dishwashers. Now we're mainly training on this. But in order for these models to be built well, you need like millions of parameters, like millions of videos. And they can't produce millions of videos fast enough. So what do they do?

Oh, we'll sell a robot that is in way more people's homes and will create the training data in people's homes. Which, so you're a baby testing. So you're selling a product for $20,000 that doesn't do the thing so that other people can build your product for you so that eventually you'll be able to sell it to people that it can actually. do the thing. And even it's like on the hope that it can eventually do that because they don't have all the parameters and they're it's this like don't worry it'll work once we get all of this but you guys need to spend $20,000 and teach it for us. This is this is the the AI product problem. This is the it's been happening before. This is what happened to the humane pin. This is what happened to the rabbit, which is the promise of it working someday in the future

is dependent on getting all of the data and all of the systems to to work eventually. this is the self-driving car problem too. We can't sell you a perfect self-driving car until we have millions of miles of data of the thing being trained and working so that we have a perfect system to self-drive. How do we get those millions of miles? We let people beta-tested for us

and put it in their own hands and hopefully it's safe enough that we can get millions and millions of miles and then we have a software. Right, but at least the benefit of Tesla that they had was that they had a thing that people already used every day that was already a good product.

And they had videos of roads. And it was always recording video to be used in the training data. Well, Neo has this too. Because one of the things they advertise on their website is something called expert mode, where if you ask Neo to do a task that it has not yet autonomously figured out,

you can schedule a time where a quote unquote Neo expert will teleoperate the robot, do the task, and supposedly contribute. to this training game. I'm going to schedule a time for an expert to come take the glass out of my candle. Not just that, but that opens up a whole world of like,

okay, so you're streaming video footage from inside your house to somewhere. There's a few things. He felt like he was kind of making some stuff up when Joanna would ask. He's like, oh, we could blur faces or just geo-lock areas inside of your house, which is like, I guess you could.

But I think to go on what David was saying is, Tesla, cars were at least cars. And like, operated as cars collecting data. Yeah. This is a robot that literally can't do anything, I guess, except being scheduled to teleoperate. But that's just not a good product unless it has all this training data.

Yeah. If this is like a good vacuum cleaner that you used and then at one point, it was like, by the way, you've used it enough now that it knows what your house looks like, so now it can clean for you. Yeah. That's different than put a robot in your home with cameras that someone has to operate. Yeah. And I will give them credit that, like, they control it with some inoculus Quest.

controller, basically, in a headset. It's cool. And it did have some pretty real-time, like, movement. And they have some interesting things when the robot, like, they pull threads inside of the robot to do the tendons, which is what allows it to be light so that it doesn't, like, fall on your dog and kill it. 66 pounds. Yeah, 66 pounds is quite light.

But that also means that it can't apply a lot of force. So Joanna in the video tried to get it to crack a, what kind of net? A walnut. And it would not crack it up there. I think that's fair because, like, I can't crack a walnut with my. hand so yeah but i mean it can't apply that much pressure i'm glad it can't apply that much pressure that is also true yeah that's actually that's true you don't want it to strangle you there's a whole movie yeah and i'm i'm begging for which movie are you i robot okay

because i got a robot there's also ex machina oh yeah yeah but i am once again begging people to finish the movies yeah it um it like yeah what was i guess it it was impressive how it all works with attendants and stuff but then you watch any of the teleoperated stuff it does in joanna's video which you should definitely go watch and I couldn't help but just thinking like this is how Lane stumbles around the house trying to learn how to do new things she's learning her neural net the same way yeah I mean yeah the thing it opened it opened the refrigerator and immediately hits itself in the face and then has to like walk out it tries to load the dishwasher I think it took five minutes to put in two cups and a fork and the way it's but the way it's

squatted down to get the dishwasher door is just just like, it's not even close to being what a human would do to do these things. I worry less about the speed that it can do tasks because if it's like doing it autonomously, then, you know, it's sort of like, yeah, it's like if it takes me two minutes to render a video or, or an hour to render a video, but it's not due till next week. Agreed. I don't really care. My analogy is if you had, remember that analogy we had like a crank computer?

It's like, if you could crank computer render a video like this in 15 minutes or if you could just have it do it automatically in an hour, I would take the hour. Even though it's slower, I just don't want to have to spend that time. I think it was less about the time and more about just like how clearly it wasn't operating and how a human would operate to do any of those things, despite being controlled by a human in all those scenarios. So now we're expecting next year for it to autonomously learn how to react more like a human and do all of those things, when right now in presumably a year within this launching,

an actual human who knows how to do those things can't even control it correctly. That seems just not even remotely close. Have you guys looked at the FAQ yet? No, I cannot imagine. Like going off your point of like how clumsy this thing tends to look, one of the things in the FAQ is like, can Neo cook for me? To which they're like, it's not going to be allowed to use your stove.

Which is like, cool, that's good, that's safe. And then they're like, but Neo can help you clean up, which implies doing the dishes. They don't say you do the dishes. There's a video of doing dishes. There's a video of doing dishes. The next two FAQ points are like, do not get this thing wet. Oh, really?

Its hands are waterproof. But it says the rest of the unit is not. And then there's an FAQ that says, can Neo be used outside? And it just says, contact with moisture may damage it. Oh, my gosh. Which is funny because there's a video of it outside watering plants. Which also, I just want to add. I just want to add, love the idea that it could clean my toilet.

You know, no one likes, actually some people. people like cleaning their toilets. There's like a whole TikTok thing. But is that knit washable? Like I don't want it to clean my toilet if it just has just has poop and pee on it forever. And I can't find that information anywhere. Interesting. Pateas. Poteinas. It also she asked it. Joanna was asking the CEO some questions. And right after showing that it does dishes, he was like, oh, can't pick up sharp objects. It's like, okay, it can do all my dishes except for knives and pointy fork. I'm cool with that, though.

I don't want... I don't want it doing that, but that's not doing the dishes. If 10% of the dishes, you can't do because now they're pointy. Doing the dishes is, like, a very delicate... Like, you drop one dish and you messed up. Yeah. Big time. And then there's pointy objects everywhere.

Yeah. And do you think that thing could clean off the floor? Yeah. I don't think that's cleaning glass up off the floor. I'm just imagining... You know how we have a... Okay, we've had two different types of robots here at the studio. We've had a robot vacuum cleaner.

Yeah. Which we came back to... in the morning and found it like wrapped in cables like dying in the corner yeah and then we've had astrobot which is like a little bit more capable it doesn't vacuum but it can like bring you a drink if someone is in the other room to hand it a drink first and like it has a little security camera and it can rove around and be a helper and has an Alexa and answers questions even that was like it would still wrap a cord around its neck and like dive under a desk for no reason so Not a whole lot of success so far in this category.

So jumping all the way to, I think basically my thesis is jumping all the way from where we are now, which is this is not real and it's 100% teleoperated, jumping all the way to this is a good product and it's mostly teleoperated and it actually saves you time is a huge gap. So why did you announce it now instead of when it's done? and the answer is both because we need to generate hype and raise a lot of money and because we need a lot of training data. And that is the AI product problem of 2025 and beyond.

Like that's what happened to Rabbit. That's what happened to the humane pin. That's what happened to so many of these others, which is the product is not done. They had a dream and a really good idea and a respectable idea and on people working really hard on it, but they just didn't have the tech

that was good enough to sell it as is. And so they sold us a horrible product that was not yet done, and that was their demise. My question is, like, how much funding do they have? Because instead of selling this for $20,000 or $500 a month when it doesn't really know how to do a lot of stuff yet, they should be offering to let people test it for them or, like, getting, or paying other people to test it for them, you know. Would they get enough people?

I don't know. I think they would. I think the entirety of Twitter would definitely sign up for this. 20 million views. I think we should say something. nice it looks soft it uh i think their marketing materials are really well done i just want to i feel like the browser company kind of like introduced this like super soft nice marketing style but there's also a lot like the photos have like a nice sort of high contrast greeniness

yeah even their like launch video was like a super eight video going through san francisco like that's exactly what the browser and i like that there's old people in the materials i'll say something I think that old people are not going to buy this. No. No. But young people are going to buy it for their parents. I feel like as a, this kind of humanoid robot might make the most sense for people who have a hard time getting around that house.

It might need some help. Yeah, but come on, have you ever met an old person? No. Like, I, you know, helping old people, my parents are weirdly good at tech. I don't help them with tech that much. But I feel like, you know, old people, you know, struggle to find the email app on the iPhone. Like, I don't want to give them something that is completely ill. L.L.M. operated. Yeah, I don't, the current as-exist version of this product could be terrible

for old people, but the, someday, the dream is complete version of this product might be awesome for old people. I feel like there's a lot of AI companies that sort of have this really weird posture where they're like, ha ha, ha, wouldn't it be funny if it killed you? Whereas the one X is sort of like, it can't, it won't, it's soft sweater, six, five, six, you're good. No sharp box. They're not making a six, too. Yeah, it can't cook. Yeah.

I'll say he did a decent job of admitting some of the, it's what to say admitting the faults and then sell it at the same time, but he mentioned shortcomings of it and how next year the people who get it are going to be purchasing something that is not fully fledged and has a lot to learn. I just think even that level of what he's saying is still so far from most likely what's going to come out. Well, it goes to Marquez's point.

Like, this is technically a cool thing. Even being teleoperated, like that's still pretty impressive for a small startup to do. It's just not what they're selling right now. So, yeah. I think we were nice enough that now no one could be mad when they lose all their money on their investments. I just can't wait until they're like, oh, did you see? They talked about Neo on the waveform podcast and they turned it on and there's a skeleton and a minion ripping on a fisherman ripping on us. They're a robot and they won't take any of this seriously.

Yeah. Which is funny. I'm looking at the viewfinder now. and it just looks like a skeleton. Do you know how hard it is to just look at Ellis with those eyes, the entire podcast eye? I completely forgot we were wearing this. I was like, this is just a regular podcast.

I actually wear this most days when we're not doing the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Last year when we did our Halloween episode, I was cutting the clips the week after and I was like, this is no longer relevant. That's exactly what's going to happen with this.

Yeah. People, you know, it'll be Halloween week. I, it'll be, yeah, yeah. Yeah. These clips will be viewed long after Halloween. Yeah, maybe next year they'll pop off. You know what else cost $500 a month? Damn.

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Okay, well, Adobe Max happened this week. Last year I went and then took a red eye Tuesday night because it starts on a Tuesday to come back here. I decided that's a bad idea because I don't like doing that anymore. So I didn't do it. Yeah, I don't like having red eyes like bunnies. I like having regular eyes.

That's a hazel eyes. I'm glad you did that. because we got all the same information from the internet what oh about adobe yeah i need to do that yeah yeah yeah so they had max is their annual developer conference it's not really it's a development conference they kind of show what they did and then they teach you how to use it i guess um it's sort of for creatives they weirdly did not really seem to seem to at least on the first day ship or talk about a lot of new new premiere or after effects features they actually had pretty big Premiere and After Effects updates like a couple of weeks ago.

So I'm not really sure if that was supposed to be like not as big of a deal. They do have generative select now in Premiere. Anyway, I'm just going to go over Photoshop and Lightroom because that's what I use the most often. And there are some interesting features here. I like Lightroom. You like Lightroom? You use Lightroom? Yeah.

I'll do Lightroom first. So Lightroom, which is a photo editing app, now has an assisted coaling feature, which if you don't, do you guys know what Colling? is no okay it's when you got sick sheep and you got to do something about it not too different actually um lambs no i'm kidding um so if you're if you're like a working photographer and you shoot burst mode which is you know i'm happy for you i would never do it myself i don't want to deal with that many photos if you're like a wedding photographer and you're just going as they do as they do those one d exes yeah when you go home and you have to like decide which is the best photo, that's really, really, really annoying, right? Because a lot of

those photos, people are going to be blinking. People are going to be doing this. And having to go like dink, dink through every picture is very annoying. So with image recognition, you can now understand, oh, this person is blinking. This photo is overexposed. So if you import a ton of pictures, they have all of these different selection modes where you can select, okay, make sure people are smiling, make sure people are not blinking. Organize the photo. that are overexposed versus properly exposed and it'll kind of context to understand that. So that's very useful.

And you can like tag things as selects and rejects and then it'll separate them into separate areas. That's sort of a quality of life, really useful, but it is still using the image recognition and semantic recognition that we've developed recently. It's best shot. It is basically best take.

That's kind of awesome, honestly. Yeah. There's a color variant slider now. So, for example, in your skin tones on your face, you have many different tones. And sometimes, if you just up the contrast on a photo, it also ups the contrast on the colors in your face. So you'll have like reds and greens and, you know, yellows in your face. Shadows. And if you up the contrast, it's going to make those go away.

They now have a slider that allows you to basically lower the contrast between certain colors or heighten the contrast between certain colors of certain areas so that you can more easily sort of get rid of those different color variations and make it all similar. So that's cool. They have automatic dust and sensor smudge removal. So if your camera sensor or lens has dust or like marks on it, it will automatically understand that when you import the photos and it will suggest that you content to where fill them away. So that's very cool. I really wish that they did with film dust because I have thousands of little dust particles on my film that's really freaking annoying but we are a very small market so they will not care about

dozens of us there are dozens there are dozens you can now batch rename files which apparently did not have before which is very useful and then also something that's kind of cool you can auto select objects and it will automatically recognize if that object created a reflection or a shadow and it will also select that part of it that's good yeah so if you're like if you're trying to fill something out like they gave an example of a lighthouse that they that they selected the lighthouse but then the person hadn't realized oh the lighthouse is casting a reflection in the water so if you just select the lighthouse it'll spin a little wheel for a sec and it'll select the

lighthouse and the reflection in the water and then when you do remove generative remove or something it'll also get rid of the reflection so that's cool that's very helpful yeah so that's lightroom So Photoshop was quite interesting. They now allow you to use different generative models for their generative fill. So instead of just using the Adobe Firefly models, they now accept Nanobanana, which is Google's Gemini image recognition model. That sounds like something else would say as a minion. I thought Nanobanana was Gemini's Sora. I thought it was a video generation model.

No, no, no, no, no. It's an image generation model. And it's something that I'm surprised we actually never talked about because it did blow up for, quite a while. Yeah, but it's not that good. Well, the good things about it is that it's really good at keeping character consistency. So if you need to generate multiple images of the same person, they would continuously look the same. And so we're entering this weird face, because remember when ChatGPT and, remember when Gemini had like a model drop-down window and it had like a zillion options? And you're like, what is the difference between? Why don't I need Flash?

Flash. So they're doing that right now. I assume they will eventually just have an auto-select the model that you need feature. But for example, you know, Nanobanana has the character consistency thing. So if you want to, you know, turn the angle, say you have a person facing forward and you're like, oh, I actually want the camera to be looking down on them. You can use that model and you can say make it looking down from a 45 degree angle. It'll be looking down at them and they'll be looking up at you. So it like maintains the way that the person looks. Pretty interesting. It's kind of like a virtual camera feature yeah yeah which is I don't know kind of weird and then there's you know other models that are good at different other things select subject and remove background

have gotten much better on device because they used to be only good in the cloud the remove tools gotten significantly better there's a new generative upscale feature which gives more partner model options so topaz upscale AI is now an option within Photoshop so It's very interesting, so it can, like, you can take a low-res image and it will upscale it the way, same way that Topas has always done. Yeah. I was going to say, I never use these upscaling features because all the source images I usually have are high-res, but I guess for older images, maybe it's better.

Like, I use the Topaz ones a lot, and they're really good if you set them at, like, 10 to 30%. Like, if you hit this slam upscale, make this a million pixels, it will look goopy. It's very, like, goopy, yeah. But at 10 to 30%, it can do some pretty morely stuff. Yeah. And then I think that one of the biggest features is harmonize, which did come out last year in the beta. But harmonize is basically you can take any PNG, you can drop it into any image, and you can hit harmonize, and it will naturally make all of the lighting and the color of the thing that you dropped into the image just look like it's realistically part of that image. Oh, so Photoshop skills.

Yeah, but like auto Photoshop. But it just does it automatically now. Yeah, auto Photoshop. Nice. So I like that. Those are sort of the main things. I definitely probably missed a few things because I went to watch the keynote and it was like five hours long. Wow.

And at least last night when I was writing this, it was not yet on YouTube and there was no playback speed option and there was no chapters. So I did not watch that and I just watched this morning a bunch of recap videos. That's the way to do it. Yeah. So even AI could help there. Yeah. But speaking of AI, well, we should just rename this. to wave AI for him or something.

We talked brief, I don't even know if we talked about this, but basically Miko is this new assistant for co-pilot, for Microsoft's copilot assistant. And effectively co-pilot, you've heard of that. It's like Microsoft's sort of AI that's always in Windows, and it's just always there. They have now made these 3D characters that are personifying the AI.

And, you know, a couple of weeks ago, they dropped, it's sort of like, it looks like a Luma from Super Mario Galaxy sort of. Okay. And it's kind of just floating there and it talks to you and it's cute, but if you tap it a bunch of times, it turns into Clippy. Yes. And we had mentioned this on the podcast. Almost.

Oh, sorry, I mean, like, we almost got what we wanted on the podcast. Like, a couple weeks ago, we were talking about Windows 10 going away and then we were just saying something about AI being like, we just need Clippy back and co-pilot. Yeah. And then I got tagged a bunch of times when this happened, but it's like, it's not

quite it's it's close we get a brief meant we get a brief clipy i think just like is it persis so it's not persistent he just it just no it just poofs into clipy as an easter and then it disappears i think so are you kidding me exactly that's i don't need this flubber ass green thing i need clippy and i mean i can understand if you want miko right to be the new thing like let that be the default but if you already programmed clippy into it give us a clipy option it's nostalgia sells Microsoft. It's true. Microsoft, you should know better than anyone in Solja sells. You're selling all

these shirts with like MSPaint logos on it. Like, just like Clippy be an option. Yeah, I'd pay $500 a month for Clippy. Okay, well, not all of us would, but Yeah, but $20,000. Yeah, do my dishes. So speaking of trivia, speaking. There was like,

Oh. Oh, spooky trivia. Guys, before we get into trivia, I just want to drop one little news story that I don't know much about, but I just want to make everyone aware. I don't know if it's Halloween spookiness. My monitor is flickering like crazy right now. It's definitely not the giant minion glasses. I did take off these classes to see.

Anyway, those of you who are interested in graphic design, for some reason right now, the affinity suite of iPad app. is free zero dollars who knows if that uh i think this is going to end soon maybe before this podcast comes out but uh it has something to do with canva making some big announcement through i don't know just uh but if you want to check out some cool apps that are now free for now as it's right now today wednesday anyway guys trivia thin phones are in the news right but thin phones themselves are not new. Released in late 2014, what phone had a total depth of just 4.8 millimeters? What year?

Late 2014, specifically December 2014, so almost 2015. 4.8 millimeters. 4.8 millimeters. I believe that's thinner than the edge and the air. It is. Yeah. Okay. A spooky question.

I did, I had, I researched this because I wrote about it for my air video, and I didn't name drop it, which I maybe should have. Well, I'll have to think about this. All right. Well, answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Race the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sails.

Captain, an unidentified ship is a person. approaching over roger wait is that an enterprise sales solution reach sales professionals not professional sailors with linkedin ads you can target the right people by industry job title and more start converting your b2b audience today spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one get started today at linkedin.com slash campaign terms and conditions apply support for the show comes from Miro. Look, AI can be scary and not in the cheesy B-movie kind of way that we all love on Halloween, but it's just that AI, like any new technology, can be intimidating. Mero actually did a survey showing that 76% believe that AI can help them, but 54% struggle with actually

using it. That's why Mero made their innovation workspace. It's an intelligent platform that brings people and AI together in a shared space to get great work done fearlessly. Miro's innovation workspace can help your teams be faster, more productive, and more effective. AI turns all your disparate pieces of data like sticky notes or screenshots into usable diagrams and product briefs, data tables, and prototypes, all in just minutes. You don't need to suddenly become an AI master with the ability to generate the perfect question or prompt. The work you're already doing on Miro's canvas is the prompt.

Help your teams get great work done with Miro. Check out Miro.com to find out how. That's MIRO.com. Support for this show comes from Zapier. These days, everyone is talking about AI. It's possibilities, its effect on the economy, its philosophical implications, but more practically,

you may simply want to know how can AI work with the day-to-day needs of my business. If you're looking to integrate AI into your business but don't know where to start, Zapier says they're here to help. Zapier wants to empower businesses everywhere to create processes and systems that let computers do what they're best at,

and in turn, let humans do what they're best at. Zapier helps you automate the most tedious parts of your day-to-day job with over 7,000 integrations and service offerings. Zapier means you and your, your team can actually reap the benefits of AI, not just talk about it. Zapier is for everyone, tech expert or not, no IT bottlenecks, no complexity. In fact, 3.4 million companies are already automating with Zapier to streamline their

revops, marketing, sales, IT, HR, and more. Join the 3.4 million companies already automating with Zapier and transform how you get work done with Zapier and AI. Get started for free by visiting Zapier.com slash wave. That's ZAPIER.com. slash wave. Welcome back. We are going to start this segment by asking our resident minion, Ellis, what is your

battery life? Oh, just a little bit. Yeah, we use that. So today was a little extra because my train was not running this morning. It took me two hours to get to work. Woo! So a little extra usage on the Purple 12 Mini today. Who wants to take a little crack?

Came off the charger a little early today, too. I was up bright and early. So came off the charger at 7.45 a.m. It is currently 12.15. I don't know how to do math. So you guys can figure that one out. There's a 30 in there. Four and a half hours.

52%. 52%. I literally was going to say 52%. 50%? 52%. I was thinking 63%. 63%. I'm currently at 56% giving, I think that would make David and Andrew a little closer.

What did you say? Andrew? I was going to say that, but there's no way I can prove that, so David wins. Oh. Well, it's not like it was a trivia point, even though I wish it was. But you know what's not? 56%. The winning percentage of the Philadelphia

76ers, because it is at 100%. Unbelievable. Have the Spurs lost yet? No. And neither of the Thunder. Anyway, but this isn't a basketball podcast. This is a nothing 3A light podcast. Hit it.

Yeah, we got to talk about this. The, okay, nothing when it came out was a budget brand. And then they made the A series, which was their budget model for the budget brand. And I remember us joking around about how they made a budget line for the budget brand. And then they made a budget company that was a sub-brand that was budgeter. CMF. C-MF. two budget two furious

two budget two furious and then now they have the nothing 3a light which is the budget of the it's the budget phone budget version of the budget

budget budget the budget version of the budget line of the budget company of the pro version of the budget company but not the

budget subbrand that makes sense why you confuse somebody needs to do a hierarchy of all these phones because I could see it's very clear in my head how the nothing phone three could be above the nothing phone three a and the nothing phone three a pro yes and is that below the nothing phone three or above the I think it's below I have the price do you want me to read the prices up for all the prices okay yeah I want to I want to acknowledge as well that this three a light is almost the same price as the original nothing phone one launched that I did not have

written down but yeah okay so nothing phone three is 799 okay and then the 3a is 379 the 3a pro is 459 and this 3a light is approximately 290 we're basing this off of it's not available in the u.s so it's 249 euros or and you said the 3a pro was 459 and then the 3 is 800 okay so that's the hierarchy of that and then the CMF phone 2 pro is 279 which is right below the 3A light. Oh, right. They have a pro version of the budget. Okay, okay, I got it.

So it's, so it's the nothing phone three, then it's the 3A pro, then it's the 3A, then it's the 3A light, then it's the nothing, a CMF phone. Correct. Also, the CMF phones are listed on the nothing website in the phone section. So like you can see, I pulled all of these straight from the phone section on nothing.com. What you might notice is this three, oh my God, trying to remember all these. The 3A light pricing is super similar. to the CMF Phone 2 Pro Pricing.

Right. That's not the only thing that's similar. Wait, yeah. I've posted a side-by-side here inside of our document. And do these phones look familiar? Could someone explain? Okay. So the camera arrangements are practically identical.

They're not like the same colors and there's like some screws and stuff. But like by and large, a lot of the features. of these things look very, very similar. Wait, okay, I have some questions then. And it looks like you have the answers. Are they the same chip? Yep. Are they the same display?

I mean, I have a set of specs here, and let's just say they're the same. Oh, my God. The button layouts are the same. Oh, my gosh. The camera layouts are the same. Correct. Wow. The camera, the battery is the same.

Okay, so this is this. Okay. So it's the same phone, but just with a different back and a different. branding. Yes, this is basically the CMF phone 2 Pro with nothing design language on the back, including a glass back versus the screw off like David was saying orange back. It was funny. I was so ready to call this dumb, but I actually prefer the nothing branding, and so I would buy this over the CMF. Well, it's also like glass instead of plastic. Yeah, like the CMFone's plastic, which like you can take off and do the modular thing and have

the like langard or whatever, but I would buy this over that. Yeah, me too. I think it's funny because I've kind of like nothing's clear white branding. And this is my favorite out of all of them because of how simple it is. It's just like mostly white, clear, some hints of black and red every once in a while. And that's about it. It's not over the top like some of the other nothing phones have been. And I think this is the best looking nothing phone. What's the weird like pole tab thing on the back?

I think that's just like where the battery went in. Does the battery, is the battery removable? It looks like there's a little. This whole side? Yeah, there's like a little scoop place for you to put your, like it looks like you're meant to Take that. That's what it's supposed to look like. It's totally non-functional.

It's just designed. You're kidding. Of course. Yeah, that's just how it looks. Now, it's one thing to choose design over function, but to design something to look functional is psychotic. Have you heard of nothing before? That's their whole thing.

No, no, no. Nothing makes designs that look pretty. That's not pretty. That looks like that. No, no, no. That literally invites you to stick your thumb in there. Yeah, yeah. That's their whole aesthetic is like there are screws under there, which are supposed to invite you to

unscrew things, but you never do that. You can't take this off and unscrew this. I don't know, Marquez. Like, there are. Like, there are screws that, you know, all of our devices. And I'm not, I don't feel begged to unscrew them. That, that is like, look what's in there. That, that's.

I'll say most phones don't have, like, they don't like visible screws. Yeah. Their aesthetic is visible screws. Yeah. And visible screws to me feels like, oh, I can open the back. You can't open the back. All of this screams, I should be able to open the back, but you can't. And that's, that's just a nothing thing.

You're losing me, Carl. they also to go with the nothing design language is they've had glyph interfaces on a lot of other ones this glyph interface is one singular white dot on the bottom which at first i thought wait did we just get back notification LED's like i remember on my note eight i had one LED on the front and like blue was text green was email yellow was Snapchat like i loved that and i thought this was that again it's not um in fact when you go in the through the setup process it says new glyph interface and i'm waiting for an animation to happen and then i click next expecting the animation to go and it just goes into the essential button this could be so much cooler

okay so if video viewers are looking at this there's a dot on the bottom right corner down here of the phone it's a white LED uh man so you can do the like essential notification thing or if a certain app notifies you then it lights up which is some information but if this was a a multicolor LED. I know. I would be raving about this. I would too. I would be so happy about this. Simplest thing. Oh, that's so close. It's funny that one multicolor LED would be better than every glyph

nothing's ever done before and they still didn't do it. I wonder if you could hack that, if it's actually like an RGB LED, kind of like the Nexus 6, was the Nexus 6? One of the Nexus had a, it was Shamu, yeah. Oh, you're saying which one had a

multi-color LED? There was one that had a LED. They They advertised that it's just a white notification LED on the back, but it was actually a multicolored LED. They only used the white light, but there was within cyanogen mod, you could assign different colors to different app notifications because they were able to actually do that. Those are the days. Maybe this will be a thing that people can figure out. Hopefully. Yeah. Nexus S.

Nexus S, but I did it on my phone. I didn't have a Nexus S. I don't know, whatever. I have one other interesting thing about this. So this is the first device that nothing is launching with the feature called lock glimpse enabled by default. If you don't know what lock glimpse is, it's a setting that's been on some, I think it was in NothingOS 4.0 beta, where essentially you turn it on and on your lock screen, now it changes every time you kind of turn the phone on and off, which can also sometimes go onto linked article. and what everyone's assuming are going to be paid ad spots for nothing, which on the beta

release, the community was really upset about it to the point where three days ago, which would be, I think the 26th today is the 29th, nothing released a statement saying, guys, guys, pump the brakes, this is opt in only, you have to go into the settings, you have to opt into this, it's not going to take over, and then full well knowing that to three days later, this phone gets released with it turned on by default. I checked, I set up the phone. It's on by default. So presumably you now have,

not only does it come with TikTok, Instagram, and one other preloaded onto the phone, you get Locklamps pre-defaulted on this phone, presumably to make it cheaper. So it's $10. You kind of think, like, is this worth $10 more than the CMF phone 2 Pro, which kind of feels like it if you like the design

and the glassback? it also shows ads it does i mean you can turn it off but it's uh it was like it was on by default like that it was on by default like that yep it's funny because the article i read said this is a slippery slope and it's like wow that slope is slick because three days later it is already defaulted on dang welcome to the nothing CMF 2 pro 2 think even as a joke to mess that up i messed it up so i don't even know what i just said it would be the nothing phone to ultra the CMF the CMF phone It would be the CMF phone

2 Ultra because it would be right above the CMF phone 2 Pro. You know what else is the 2 Pro? A baby Oh, you is waiting. All my E-Inc and Joyers out. All right. You know that we are big Bookes fans

over here at the Wayform podcast. More than one of us. Me and Ellis. So we talked about the Books Palma 2 Pro You say books way You hit the O way hard of them

I thought you're supposed to Because it's fun Marquez It's fun It's not books though You're saying books Today is the boos Yeah

Boots Okay We talked about the Bookes Palma 2 Pro Which has an e-ink display It also has a pen That unfortunately does not magnetize it To it and

There's like no holder for it There is on the case. So, okay, so yeah. The big thing about this is that it has a SIM card tray, which has the ability to, you can either put a SIM card tray in it so that you can, you know, access books on the Internet, or you can download, you know, you can listen to Spotify or you can do whatever. It's, I'm wondering how close this is to a phone,

because I don't really know if it has a microphone. It's as close to a phone as the iPod touch was to an iPhone. Wait, you can't make phone calls on it? I'm not sure yet. Could you put data on that? this you can put data on it on an iPod there was no cellular on an iPod so it's actually closer to a phone on the iPod but there was sim data on a iPod no no sim data right yeah so well yeah you can have a sim card so okay so it has a sim card tray in it that can double as a microSD card express

or microSD card reader but it already has a hundred and twenty eight gigs of storage in it which is pretty good for a e-ink e-reader twice as much as my 12 mini has has it's a brand It's got a 3,950 millionth-hour battery. Wow. So that's pretty big. So it's probably going to last a very long time. It has... It's twice as much as my time.

A 6.13-inch collidio 3E paper display, which is color. So it can do color now. As an octacore CPU, it says A-GPS, A-Dash GPS, which I don't really know what that means. But there is this optional additional pen for it. it so you can mark things up and i've tried this so far and it's very very seamless very quick and then the folio case that they sell with it is a case first off and then it has this it has magsafe by the way it's like an unofficial magsafe rings everywhere that the case attaches to but the case also has magnets in it so when you close the case it locks and when you open the case

it unlocks the boogs mama 2 pro that's a subtle thing which everyone should be doing with their folio cases very similar to the htc dot matrix display case for the m9 or whatever yeah for the m9 wow and uh yeah i am just extremely excited to use this i may put a sim card in it and like see how close i can get to actually using it as a phone i think it would be great but also i unboxed it just this morning and it has an a i i'm not really sure of course what an what a what a reading tablet for me Yeah, that's what I would be like, please don't summarize anything I'm reading. Yeah. So there is that, unfortunately. They were so close to perfection. I know. So they didn't put an area for the pen anywhere on the case, which is kind of annoying.

I feel like they should have had like a loop on the front. But it does magnetize to it. So it does magnetize to the front and it's pretty secure. It doesn't really feel like it's going to fall off. So hopefully that wouldn't fall off in like a bag. But that's a coincidence. That's a, I don't know. They might have done that on purpose.

Oh, thank you. But also the case, even though it has magnet safe. like a magna safe ring on the back, it can also turn into like this folio thing where it comes off and then is used as a kickstand. I again, I'm not really sure why you need a kickstand for your phone-sized e-reader because you're not really going to be watching videos or TikTok or anything on it. It's color. But it is color, so you could.

Anyway, I'm very excited about this thing. We've been talking about it for weeks and I believe it's $400, which is a bit expensive. It's a little bit more expensive than the previous Bukes Palma 2. Does the pen come with that $400? Negativeo, my friend. Yeah. Yeah, the IncSense Plus bundle, which is the pen. Oh, it's only an initial $30.

These names are wild. Oh, so the $30 comes with the case and the pen. Wow. Sorry, the ink. Ink Sense bundle. The pen and the case come for the $30. Yeah, so it's $400 just for the Bukes Palma Pro 2. Somebody else to rewind and play what David just said.

Oh, so the $30 comes with the. case and the pen just you get $30 with the pen and the case which would be really sick they just give you $30 with everything if you pay an extra 30 bucks you get the the case and the pen which i think is a pretty good deal okay um yeah and it comes in black and white but the black sucks and the white is awesome so you said writing with the pen's pretty awesome yeah the pen has pretty seamless pretty much instantaneous feedback where it just like it just shows up on the screen immediately can we try yeah we can try it create should hold it up to the microphone for the ASMR of the pen on the surface is it's pretty good a nice like feeling surface to write on yeah yeah definitely kind of sounds

nice it's it does sound it's like yeah anyway wow i'm excited i want to mainline this for a while because i've been using i've been using the bux palma 2 for a very long time so there you have it we finally got it i i want to play with that later what's the name of the a i is a Does it have a name? It just says AI assistant. Yeah. I don't know yet what the AI assistant does. I'm surprised he doesn't have a name because Books is already like a pretty creative name.

You'd think they would have went hard. His name is like pager. I don't know. Can we do trivia, please? Yes. Spooky trivia. Bookes also makes like tablets and stuff under the Books brand. Just saying.

Cool. So, Daniel Eck. CEO of Spotify, was also the CEO of what torrenting company briefly in 2006? Oh, wow. She's not surprised. I didn't know this company had a CEO. I just assumed it was a bunch of guys in like a shipping container somewhere like breaking the law. Full credit, Eric told me this this morning, and I did not believe him and I looked it up and it was true.

That's good. Wait, a torrenting person turned into the Spotify? Correct. That's shocker. That's so good. So no matter what we write down, it's going to be pretty incredible. I feel like all the torrenting sites at that time looked exactly the same, which is a different logo and color scheme. This is good. He's a pirate. This is a good question for the pirate man.

It's true. All right. Now we'll be right back. Support for the show comes from LinkedIn. When you're a small business owner, your business is on your mind 24-7, so when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do, and that hiring partner is LinkedIn jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. LinkedIn's new features can help you write job descriptions, and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote.

Promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. And at the end of the day, the most important thing for your small business is the quality of the applicants and the candidates you get. And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn's data, 72% of SMBs using LinkedIn say that it helps them find high quality candidates. So find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash MKBHD. That's LinkedIn.com slash MKBHD to post your job for free.

Terms conditions apply. Morning, Zoe. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage? I want to be in a T-Mobile commercial like you. Teach me, Saldana. I couldn't possibly. At T-Mobile, get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet

and has the ultimate pro camera system. Impressive. Let me try. At T-Mobile, you can save up to 20% versus the other big guys. You heard them. T-Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible trade-in in any condition. Check them out to see how much you can save versus the other big guys. If your team is spending more time chasing paperwork than actually closing, it's time to check out PipeDrive.

Pipe Drive is a top-rated CRM tool for small to medium businesses, helping sales teams close deals faster than ever. Its visual sales pipeline shows you where every deal is, what stage it's in, and what needs to happen next, all-in-one dashboard. It's a powerful yet simple CRM, built by salespeople for salespeople. Join the over 100,000 companies already using PipeDrive. Right now, when you use my link, you'll get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment needed. Just head to PipeDrive.com slash Vox to get started. That's PipeDrive.com slash Vox, and you can be up and running in minutes.

Welcome back. So those of you who are familiar with how we do things here around the office may know that we record this podcast right before eating lunch, which is why the third segment on today's show is going to be making the hosts eat a ton of candy at 1236 p.m. Specifically, we're to be doing a blind candy ranking where we give our hosts a series of pieces of Halloween candy that they must rank from, it was supposed to be 1 to 10, but I got a lot of fun candy. So maybe we can make it 1 to 12.

So I'm going to say 1 to 12. Olivia, I'm sorry in advance because I already asked you to make a 1 through 10 ranking sheet and now you're going to add two more so sorry about that but uh what i'm going to need you guys to do is each eat the piece of candy that we hand to you and then agree on where it falls on the ranking without knowing what will come next okay are you guys ready as an experienced Halloween trick-or-treater i may not need to eat most of these to know where i want to put them on the rank no no no that's not optional we are working together on this correct you are working together on this you must come to a consensus

of where everything ranks should we get a baseline between the three of us of just out of the blue what is your favorite piece of Halloween candy oh to know of like if right now you had like I'm sorry in advance for my answer I just want to know like if it popped up you're immediately number one no questions asked I think generally twicks for me I totally I don't know if I agree, but you could convince me. I really like Twix, but my top candies are incredibly unpopular, unfortunately. But I like Reese's, I like Skittles and Starburst. I really like Starburst jelly beans.

Have you had those? I love Starburst jelly beans. They're really good. But my top two are candy corn and dots. Yes. Candy corn is fine. Candy corn sick. Dots is.

Wait, is this a whole room of candy corn enjoyers? That is so rare. It's so rare. Oh. Awesome. Usually somebody, I get a grown out of that. usually. Give me the flavor of wax.

Dots gives me all grown at Dots. Need the flavored wax. Dots is like once a year. That's why it's like good Halloween candy because I only eat candy corn once a year. Wait, Markis, why did I think you like Dots? No, he does. He just has a top two.

That's my top two. But they make you grown, Andrew. Yes. Okay. Well, It's a lot of chewing. On that note, the first candy is Dots. Oh, wow.

Ficking go. All right. Guys, I'm not eating anything. Just kidding, it's the hardest thing to chew. I will eat it. Yeah, unfortunately, the variety pack that Alex bought only had one thing of Dotson, which was as it should. There's like 60 pieces of cats.

One. Okay, I will say those are better than I remember. There you go. Similarly as chewy. There's a little bit of aftertaste along the lines of the stuff the dentist used to clean your teeth. Ew. That's...

Which isn't my favorite, but it's pretty good. I don't think I can agree with one. It's not one. It's not one. I like that. It's top two and it's not two. You can't know what the other ones are. I can't put this top two.

I'm not settling for anything out of the top half. Whatever you are. Oh, no, no, I agree. How about five? I like five. Five out of twelve. Five out of twelve. Are we going to get four better than this?

It's the first pick. I think so. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.

Dots in at number five. candy number two another polemical one candy number two is the blue dude polemical polemical polemic it's like a controversial

nope just means that people get angry almond joy oh I love almond joys you guys know how I feel about almonds I thought that was named damn what do you feel about almonds you felt joyful about almonds I didn't tell you how I felt about almonds

no oh I think you could just get rid of almonds and nothing of value would be lost I love this conversation again. But I can say I will be with you similar to the rankings because I'm not a huge coconut person. This is so good. Oh my God. This is top two and it's not two. I'm also not a huge coconut person.

This is so good. Marquez, I'm interested where you are. You're under dots for this. I'm with you under dots. No, he's above dots. I can tell. No, it's below dots. It's better than expected, and it's not because of the almond.

This is so much better than that. You like the coconut? I like coconut part. I'm warming up to coconut, but this still just is not my favorite. How do you feel about the, what's the Girl Scout cookie? The Samoa's. It's got a different name now, I believe. Yeah.

I think it's Samoas. Oh, because Tagalog. Yeah, Samois. Tagal. How do you feel about Samois? I don't love them. Okay, so this reminds me to Samoas. Mm-hmm.

I put this six, four. I'll go six. I think six, because I'm scared of the back half. But I think I like dots more. I've been turning into a gummy candy personally, so maybe dots is just hitting different as of now. So six? Six?

We're putting in six. Oh, my gosh. David wants it like one or two, but Alma Joy is so much better than dots. That's are fine. I'm going to try to not give you all the super chewy ones in succession to like keep your jaws alive through this. Thank you. But more dots would be fine.

Well, they're not dots, but they are a special Halloween. Edition. Laffy taffy. Wildberry banana, Laffy Taffy. Oh, that flavor sounds wild. My jaw got tired listening to Ellis say what it was. Is that my first mistrow? Damn. I don't remember what a Laffy Taffy tastes like.

Having a joke on every rapper was one of my favorite things about it. Oh, I didn't know that until I just read it right now. You think it's just regular taffy? Yeah, I want to read my jokes. Can I read my jokes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you do if you see a blue mango? you try to cheer it up okay my answer to that

wait I don't get that how does that make sense a blue mango mango oh okay all right my answer to that is you enjoy watching them play at the stadium because like blue mangrove blue mangrove

I'm more with you on that one mine has two jokes blue man good yeah two jokes really yeah everyone has two jokes yeah oh I have the blue mango one what's your other one David. Do you have, what do you call two bananas? No.

Two colors. What is the most required skill to work in a juice factory? Oh. Ask Jucero. Damn. I don't know. A good ability to concentrate. Oh, that's pretty decent.

What do you call it? Oh, wait. Sorry, go ahead. Mine's, what do you call two bananas? Mine says that too. A pair of slippers. Yeah, we got the same. Slippers?

Oh, we got the same two jokes. Why is they? Where are they slippers? Mario's not. This is concerning. the colors. Oh, I don't like the way this one tastes. I'm going to end up eating plastic.

It was less chewy than the dots somehow. What? No, it wasn't. Yeah, it was. No, it wasn't. Considering I think it was less chewy. I was surprised at how not chewy it was. If you wanted to eat a single dot versus a bite of lappy taffy.

Put a dot on one side of your mouth and a bite of Laffi Tapi on the other side of your mouth and see which one finishes first. I think it takes longer to chew. God, that was that was bad. Time in mouth is. over I took a small light and it's stuck inside like in between my teeth that I can't get it out it's worse than dot so I'm agreeing I just think it's less truly let's say 10 or 11 11 11 I'll go 11 on that I think there's going to be some gross stuff and at least I'll know it's gross I had some I go 10 optimism 10 I think 10 I would do 10 I would do 10 okay 10 great great guys see roll level of like you don't like we're going to get no what What do you talk? They're so good. Who likes...

Never mind. I like Tucci rolls more than this. I like Tutsi rolls more than this. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, sorry. Tootsie rolls are a high value for you? Those are the brown, chewy things. Yeah. Yeah.

How do you feel about flavored Tutsi rolls? I've never had it. They're crazy. The blue one's vanilla. Tutsi rolls are like... It's good. If Yahoo drinks were a chewy candy. When you go Halloween shopping and you see the Tutsi rolls,

you like go right past them to the rest of the game. You can't because it's inside of every. I don't have classic tootsie rolls on this list, but should I go grab them? No, we know they're bad. Okay, well, I do have orange-flavored tutsi rolls. Also the chewiest thing in existence, but okay. Are these two small to throw across the studio? No, we got it.

We've got athletes. I've got perfect vision right now. It's just hit some in the face. That was really good. Are you okay? Yeah, I've got a mask on. It's not the first, that's probably like the sixth time I've been hit with something in the face on video. You have to zoom in on camera.

Okay. Zoom into that on camera. Guys, how are we feeling? It's really, oh yeah, chewing, chewing. It was better in the first half, I will say. Got kind of worse. Okay, the first half, nine. I'm done sure.

Okay, definitely better than Lafie taffi. Seven, for sure. Way, way better than the classic Titsy roll. Just because of the orange. I like orange things, I think. Citrus and candy go well together? Yeah. I have it seven.

I like seven. I'll go seven. It should have been six and almond joy should have been higher. Well, I'm... Five, six, seven, and ten are what we currently have? So we have 12, 11, 9, 8, 4, 3, 2.1. Wait, so how many is that? Four?

You have... New four so far. We've done four. We've done four. You've done four. You've done four. Okay, we've got to start looking in top five here because, presumably, at worst, half of these are Ellis concoctions.

So let's open our eyes to the ones we've heard of before. This next one, you know, I've heard Marquez, you like orange things, Andrew, citrus and candy go well together. I saw what you had, I think. I have a little treat from across the pond. This is a personal favorite of mine. This is a Terry's dark chocolate orange. And I'm not going to throw this one. I'm going to bring it over to you because I don't know if this is not throwable.

Do they have fun-sized versions of these for trick-or-treating? Or would you go to a house and take one of the pieces out of it? Or would it be a sweet house and you get the whole orange? Ideally, the whole orange. That's a sick house. Yeah, that's like the one you want to go to. Yeah. That's the one where like when you're walking around later, you tell all your friends about

and you're like, go to that house because they're giving out a whole treats. Oh, this is an enormous piece of candy. Have you never had one of these? Oh, no. My father-in-law loves these. They're really good. So it's the size of an orange, but it's a bunch of slices. And even each individual's slice is, like, pretty big.

I just shocked myself on the Mac studio and my screen stopped flickering. So I just, I guess I re-grounded it. Andrew's enjoying it. I love this shit. It doesn't taste as good as I remember. We might disagree on the ranking then. Well, here's my thing. This is Halloween candy rankings, correct?

This is very good. Yeah. I'm wondering in the Halloween list where this is. Is that a different list? list. I feel like it's just the list. Getting it at while knocking at the door on the house.

I'd be very happy if I got one of these. True. You get the whole thing. The whole orange thing. And then your mom's like, you can have one piece of candy tonight. You just rip open the giant orange. Okay, I'll...

I'll... I'll admit I'm not a big dark chocolate person. So this was, this is low for me. This is below the Laffi-Taffee. Really? Below Laffi-Taffee? Yeah. I have to have this as...

Maybe it's insane. That's unbelievable. This is top five for me For what we currently have going It's above everything I need a consensus And unfortunately But you don't have anything

Between four and eight available So you need to make a call Is it top four or is it bottom four? Cannot be. Where are we? I guess it's eight then Because I can't This is not better than dots

And almond joy This is better than the orange tutsi roll What's coming next? This is I, but I don't like Dark Chocolate Like I specifically don't If this is milk chocolate I might be okay with

putting it four okay well can you put your taste aside and imagine a dark a milk chocolate or imagine you like that's not the game it's not the game i'm coming up from 11 to eight i guess technically we're going the same amount of way of david and i said four it's about the same right we're going to regret this eight number eight okay come on man oh joe anyway guys you know I know it's better than candy. I'm looking at else. I am nervous about this. Money?

Baked beans. Oh, God. Specifically. No one gives us out on Halloween. Boston baked beans. Yeah, boy. A candy I have never heard of before yesterday. Where did you find it?

I found this at Economy Candy in Lower Manhattan. Like with the rest of the Halloween candy? I spent company money on this, but it was still a really great experience, so I get they should have a shadow. They should have a shout out. Economy candy. Hmm. Economy candy. That feels like where you would find bake beans as a candy.

That is, in fact, where I found baked beans as a candy. Anyway, you guys don't have a nut allergy, do you? Now, we're to eat the almond jelly. I'm... I'm... You're four candy bars late to that question. Wait a second. Here is on a nut allergy.

So the company is Boston baked beans, and it says artificially flavored candy-coated peanuts. I don't... Do they taste like beans? I really hope not. That would be so dumb. It's better than I expected it to be. You have... Me too.

12, 11, 9, and then 4 through 1 available. It's not above dots. It can't be above dots. It's not above dots. You know what has to be above dots? The deeper we go into this, we're breaking all the blind ranking rules of... Look, either... There's two possibilities here.

Either Ellis saved all the good candies for last, or Ellis somehow found four even worse candies than these, and our rankings will be upside. down and that's okay okay I'm sure I love your optimism it's it's going to be the next one are going to be Twix three musketeers recent it's going to be classic skittles starburst jelly beans yeah candy corn yeah fish paste the good stuff no there's no there's no seafood I couldn't find seafood I think this is let's put this in at nine okay nine are there going to be too worse than this probably right this is four for me this is not better than almond joy I don't I agree but almond joy should be higher up look

All of our rankings as we insert them will be correct until they're all wrong. They're already all wrong. They're all right so far. No, they're not. No, they're not. We have nine open. Are we really putting this on nine? Well, I don't think it's 11 or 12.

It's not 11 or 12. So now all we have left is 1, 2, 3, 4, 11 or 12. Oh, my God. Fund it. That's not even candy, is it? It's sugar. It's candy you dip in more candy. Yeah.

I just realize that the full name of fun dip is Lickamade. That's disgusting. It's like lemonade that you lick. Lemonade powder. And I'm going to bring this one over too because one of the fun dips burst open while in transit. And so I spent way too much time yesterday cleaning fund dip off of this desk. It was no fun whatsoever. Where are there two?

Because you have to open the left side. I don't know. Oh. Oh, wait. Open horizontally. David, this is your first fund it? Okay, so David, inside that package is a stick made out of pure white sugar and then a packet of powder, which I assume you've just discovered. You lick the sugar stick and then dip it in the powder.

Cutter is kind of good. Try it with a stick. It's blue, but it turns green. Can I open the other side? Yeah. Horizontally. What? Like across the top.

Oh, like that. Oh, that's how you're supposed to open that? How are kids supposed to know that? If I didn't even know that. I feel like it's like tacit kid knowledge. They just know. Yeah. You know how like when baby giraffes are born, they can walk within minutes?

Are you dipping it in the table pile? Do I know how like when Neo was invented it couldn't do anything? The white thing tastes really good I can say four for this I like it I don't hate it I'm okay with that objectively it's not four

but I think given where we're at I got it all over the Bukes Poma Pro too I like how they were like hey we could just make those stick with the blue sugar and you would just eat it I think I would put it like no let's make a slightly

worse tasting sugar and now dip it in the blue sugar yeah I have my I have my own ranking here as well that I might share after but yeah I in general we only have one two three four or eleven or twelve open right now and this is not worse than the Boston baked beans or the lappy taffy so I guess it's four four or I'll go four for for unanimous four up next we have another jaw tester oh no movie theaters everywhere fear them milk duds they're milk duds oh god I heard of these this oh you haven't had these this is chocolate

They taste delicious, but they destroy your teeth. It's chocolate dots. They are hella good though. Audio listeners have been missing Ellis' perfect throws this entire episode. Shout out to Ellis. I've caught everyone else. It's been really good. Oh my god, I love these.

My grandma, may she rest in peace, really love these. Yeah. She had good taste. She got them very time when I went to a movie. Ew. kind of just like plastic a little bit okay it's better it does it I don't know

these are the chewiest sorry grandma I don't know I don't know about that is it better than Laffy Taffy? Unfortunately this is I mean yes yes I don't know I think I might Laffin should have been 12

The eating experience is Compromised Guys I need a number Is it top three I think it's bottom two. I think it's top three. It's bottom two. I'm on bottom two.

I'm here in an 11. Our list is so... You audibly said, ew, when you ate it, David. Yeah, but it got better. I think in the scenario we're at now, I'm in bottom two. 11, you think?

Yeah. Okay. For the context of this, don't think of it as it's three or it's 11. Think of it as it's three or it's four. One of the best or one of the worst. Because we can't change. the other ones agreed and our list is messed up yeah so is it is it three or is it four that marquez

has held that then ever since we put dots at not one dots are still my number one so you think it's four here's where it goes in my actual rankings um four out of the remaining possible five i think it's yeah i think it'd be three it's like mid that was pretty hard to eat yeah i wouldn't buy it ever i think the line of what i buy it ever is right here for me anyway Let's go 11. I think 11. Sorry, David. I'm with 11 on this one.

I'm willing to take the risk. I think I'm just in the category of we're taking the risk now. And I'm trying to join the optimism. Skittles, Ellis. Come on. This one is very similar to Skittles. It's like I would describe it as like a Skittles analog. But guys, first you need to tell me, have you ever like really, really, really wanted to eat soap?

I did and it sucked It was not intentional You've never wanted to eat soap I've never wanted to eat soap I've never wanted to use soap No I've never wanted to use it then I don't I'm sorry Would you please bring these to our contestants

Adam I did not know this product existed This is edible candy bubble juice with a bubble blowing want What god Please do not spill this in our studio This is bad teaching

bubble lick It's birthday case really day dangerous. Yeah, kids are definitely kind of. So the whole thing, so to be clear, just for audio listeners, it looks like a clear tube of like bubble soap, like bubble blowing soap with a little wand that you blow bubbles with. But the entire contents of it are edible? I don't know. I didn't really read the label. You never had this before? No. What are the chances we could blow a bubble and someone catches it in their mouth? That's what you're supposed to do. You blow the bubbles and then you catch them and the bubbles are sweet and delicious. Really?

This one is birthday cake flavored. Not only is this a horrible product, but it's a super bad idea. Burst all over my face, dude. Jesus. Taking clear should automatically be fruit flavored. So making clear birthday cake flavored is... They did have clear ones that were fruit flavored. I just...

Ew, it's like dripping all over me. Jesus. I'm not going to blow bubbles. I'm just going to taste it. It's dripping all over me. It tastes a little bit like bubble soap. Do not drink solution. It says lick only in bubble form.

Ha, okay, sweet. I stuck the whole bond in my mouth. I did too. And my throat is burning. And kids are not going to read that, and they're going to do the same thing. Ew. This has to be 12. Wait, this kind of hurts.

This is bad. I'm so glad we left 12. If solution gets into eyes, rents eyes with water. Sounds pretty toxic, bro. 12. That's 12. 12. The highlight, the absolute best part, was that when I opened it, it smelled like birthday cake for a second.

Yeah. And then everything after that point was missing. Yeah. My mountain. Dead last. Can't believe they just got money out of us. That was terrible. Yeah, my throat hurts.

Skittles, Ellis. Skittles. Rees, Starbursts. There has to be. Guys, this next candy is also, I would say, a Skittles analog. Wait, how is this a Skittles analog? I lied. It's not.

This one, though, is both round and colorful. All right. It is cult classic candy. classic candy of the ages, candy buttons. I don't know if this is a thing outside the U.S. It's essentially pieces of sugar dotted onto a long piece of receipt paper.

It's like candy acid. I love these, personally. These are my... Out of everything here would probably be... Oh yeah, no, eating the paper is also part of it. Actually? Or just like... Well, I mean, it's just... I've never had one without a little bit of it.

It's edible paper? No, but I've just never eaten one without paper on. Anything eaten after candy bubbles is like ester. Yeah, this is so, so much better. This is like quintessential like five and dime store, like pick up candy from it, yeah. Looks like David's eaten a second one. Ooh, good crunch. That one was a different flavor.

Three. Three. Or two. Three. Do we want to leave it open in case it's bad? We just have to embrace the shop. So embrace the nightmare that is one and two. This is all right.

I'm like trying to imagine Marquez is going to leave this room and go find all the good candy and eat it just to feel something after. And maybe say one or two. I mean two. There's no world that this is the best holiday in candy. Out of the two we have left. Don't think about it what we've already tried. I have to. Yeah.

You have to think about it what we might have left. In a world where we have one, two, and three open. and we're ranking best Halloween candy and we open this rapper and eat this we have to put three. And you don't know what the other two are. We have to put three. What if they're better?

There's no way to. Or what if they're worse? They can't be worse. Dude, we just had bubble. Ellis wouldn't do this to us. You think Ellis would do this to us? Yeah. 100%.

Look at this man. Yeah. Do you think he would give us candy worse than this? Absolutely. He's probably saving the worst one for last. I think he would die if you drank this. Oh, wait.

Do you know what I forgot? What? Ellis put a spoon in front of all of this. You do all have spoons. Oh, that's get to suck. That's really bad with one to open. What kind of Halloween candy do you give to kids that requires a spoon? I don't remember ever saying Halloween when I picked this.

You opened this as Halloween candy. I thought that was a whole thing. It just happens to be Halloween and we're eating candy. It gets unrelated. Adam, play the tape. Specifically, we're to be doing a blind candy ranking where we give our hosts a series of pieces of Halloween candy that they must rank

see now you all know that I'm right my ear or wrong but you're definitely wrong okay all right guys this next one um needs no introduction oh okay that is teaberry gum okay you Ella said they're gonna have to spit this out and I was like oh I'm not going to just but I'll sniff it

but there's multiple packs of tea berry I don't know oh I'll try I got this was the one I got where I was like that's how I'm not gonna smell I'm just going to go. You can spit it out to the paper towels that we put in front of you. Is that way good producers? You somehow managed to give us worse candy every single.

So it has a hint of flavor of every type of gum I can imagine in this stick form, but just like the LaCroix version of it. Like I almost get a sense of big red. I almost get a sense of Spearmint. Well, is it number one or number two? Unfortunately, with the way things are trending, this probably should be number one, but this is number two. Yeah, see my, see my perspective.

Look at this list. Are you proud of your, look at this list. Are you asking if I'm proud of myself? Look at this list. Mark has this could have been number three, just saying, if we put the buttons as number two. At this point, bubble juice being 12, we succeeded. Whatever Ellis pulls out that bag, we have to say is better than all these candies. Yeah, and it will probably be better than this, though, at the minimum, right?

That's what I thought about the last three. We'll see. We'll see. All right. So what are you doing? Putting it one or two. Two. Two.

All right. Tea berry gum at number two. I'm ready for the chaos. Gentlemen, all right. Get out your spoons. The best candy you chose. Is it ice cream? As chosen by you.

Yeah. Wayform's official best candy ever. That's crazy. Crazy work. Gentlemen, I am like sunscreen. I am going to ask you to squeeze the ooze tube. Oh, it's not, what is it? It's the aloe?

It is ooze tube liquid candy by sweet bandit. It is green apple flavor. This could slap, just saying. I'll go first. The only reason that some of these companies are still in business is because, what was it called, the economy candy store exists? Is that what it was called? Yeah, economy candy.

On Rivington and Lower Manhattan. It's really fun. You should go. That is probably the only place that you will find ooze tube liquid candy. Green apple flavored. Green apple slaps. I'm ready. Knock yourself out.

All right. Marquez has just bypassed. The only thing, did you, was this sealed? Yeah, I did break the seal. Okay, thank goodness. All right, audio listeners, Andrew is emptying the ooze tube into his spoon. Brother. That's so much.

It's really stringy, but it also, it does have sort of the consistency of Alavera. Let's go. We'll go together. Wait, Marquez, you're not doing this? No. Why? Why?

Look at it. Yeah? I actually think this is going to be good. I mean, we know it's good because it's literally the number one candy, according to Wayform podcast hosts. If we flip this list upside down, it's actually better. That would put the bubble juice at number one, Marquez. It would also put Happy Taffee and Milk Duds above.

This is. This is a melted green apple jolly rancher. Yep. It's pretty good. it doesn't like it it literally tastes like a green apple jolly rancher that's probably a compliment that's kind of a compliment it's notice we didn't get jolly ranchers it's burning my throat number one it's number one way worse could have been number one all right actually out of the last three things we ranked this was the best out of all just to just to go back over this list we

picked ooze tube green apple flavor number one tea berry gum number two Candy buttons number three That's what I'm saying, man Fun dip number four Dots 5, almond joy 6, orange tucy roll 7 Dark chocolate orange 8 Boston baked beans 9

Laffy Taffy 10 milk duds 11 bubble juice Couldn't escape Acid. It had to go 12. This is what I'm saying When you're putting If you're doing a blind list You're doing the next one

You have to just think of it In comparison to everything That could come after But not the things you've already done I just want to let you guys know, before you do individual rankings, sitting on my desk, unused candies are Kit Kat, Reeses, Hershey's, and Twizzlers. Wow. You heard that? You heard that? The good stuff.

What we could have had was a good list, and they actively chose to make this a bad thing. When you're doing a blind ranking, there's two ways you can do it, right? Like, you can have your contestants fill up all the top ones really early, so then you've got to choose the good candies and force them to put it in the bottom. Or you can do what happens. happened here where you filled up the bottom really quick and then let me just ruin your morning so in case you're wondering i've been keeping track of all these candies and how i would have ranked them if this wasn't a blind ranking so dots one orange fruit chew it's not even oh it's real it's roll yeah orange titurl two almond joy three laughy taffy four milk duds five baked

beans six and then it's just all downhill from here fun dip seven cotton candy buttons a let eight chocolate orange, nine, ooze tube, 10, tea, gum, 11, and poison, 12. You didn't even have the ooze tube, and it still made it to 10. That was based purely on Andrew's description. I'm just, uh, I'm not going to do my whole one. I'm just going to say the only thing I think people will be upset about with Marquez is the chocolate orange. I don't know, man.

Almond joy. I'm going to go almond joy, number one. Um, the baked, baked beans, chocolate number two, no, bake beans number two, chocolate number three. Um, milk duds, fun dip, dots. Uh, I don't know, it doesn't matter, man. Ultimately, those are my top six. That's okay. I think I should be rewarded for creating a candy list. of which 16% was liquid.

That's not easy. It's pretty good. In Marquez's world, this candy list is perfect because Dots got to be number one on his list. Trivia. This is the messiest as. Spooky trivia. We may have to clarify the second question.

Yeah. Guys, thin phones are in vogue right now, but they are not new. what phone released what phone released December 2014 had a total thick, is it thickness or depth

or? Thickness. Yeah, sure. Thickness. What had a total thickness of 4.8 millimeters? It's between two that I'm thinking of. But Adam said

that the company was obvious. so if you're thinking around this time period companies that do crazy yeah what was the time again 2014 December so basically 2015 but 2014 whatever okay I'm circling this one okay I put the Moto Z ah crap I think I got the name wrong oh oh I put the Moto G play I also put the motto Z but I'd crossed out like what I thought it was before which was the Huawei like P2 or something? I was thinking like the sharp aquos

is a sharp phone, right? It is not but close. That's more along the lines I was thinking of. The Moto Z is a great guess because that was only 5.2 millimeters thick, meaning you're only four millimeters off. The phone I was looking for was the Vivo X5 max.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did look that up a few weeks ago. That was obvious? I thought Vivo would have been too obvious. That's why I wanted you to get the actual name. I guess they were more obvious in that since like 2017-18 trying all the crazy stuff yeah modozzi was later right i thought it was later as he were upstairs motor z was between 2015 and 2020 yeah all right

second question quick update on the score though marquez eight right behind andrew the skeleton with nine and david fishing up the rear with five really yeah i got five i thought it was I'm like, whatever, okay. Well, the answer to the second question, Ellis accidentally told our host in between breaks. So it was U-Torrent. Daniel Eck was briefly the CEO of U-Torrent. So I have another question. It's basketball related.

Let's go. But David, you can actually maybe get this, maybe? Andrew, maybe you could get this, maybe? The question is, which NBA superstar has a deal currently with Google? There's multiple answers Fitbit I think we can accept any Any NBA superstar

Well the Google deal There's one in particular that's super obvious That David will not get Yeah There's another one that's super obvious That I won't get More so that like he's the guy We've always been talking about

As being this guy But you wouldn't know him because he's like I'm at that point I remember You remember I'll do both two points Yeah two points Screw it So a deal with Google

Yes a deal with Google The one I was looking for specifically was a deal with Fitbit. He's also an investor in a bunch of, no. I don't know the answer to this question. Oh, nice. Okay, cool. So you're supposed to put two answers? Yes.

But David, think about someone you would know. That is my hint to you. Who currently plays. Yep. Currently in the league. There's two players. Have I met him before? Maybe, actually.

Maybe. Or at least been in the same room with him I don't know if you've met him Tony Hawk No I have met him like three times He's a Formula One driver Tony Hawk

Tony Hawk Nice Look at him I'm closing the cap Yay Thank you All right flip him and read What do we got Oh

Who wants to go first I wrote Kevin Durant No but good job Yeah I just know that that's That's a basketball. And then Steph Curry. Steph Curry?

Yeah. Correct. There it is. Yeah. That's one point for David. Andrew, would you put? I put Janus. You got a point for that because that was the other one that we were thinking about.

Janus Antitucco, the human alphabet. I wrote down the three basketball players that I know of Google deals. I wrote Janus Antecumpo. That is correct. One point. I spelled it. Wow. I'm waiting for my point.

I'm waiting for my points. You got a point for that. You got a point. Spelling it. I'll give you respect. That is correct. You got another point for that. Kelsey Plum.

WNBA. Correct. Did I say NBA? Yeah. You probably did. So is Yannis the guy that got traded that everyone was freaking out about? No. That was Luka.

Last year. All right. Throw is still like burning from the toxic acid that we just straight. All right. Well, now this episode is done. We're going to eat the rest of the good candy that you had in that bag over there. Kickats did I hear? Twix.

And Twizzlers and Hershey. Reese's? He could have put Reese's in the top 10. And it's Reese's pumpkins, right? No, it's just Reese's, man. Wait, there's big, good stuff. No, there's the, like, holiday Reese's have the better ratio than regular Reese's. Oh. Well, we're going to eat those. We're going to, we're going to enjoy our lunch, of course. And thanks for sticking with us for Techtober. What comes next? Tech. Tember. I think it's November. TechVember. It doesn't roll off the tongue as well. So thanks for sticking with us for the one that does roll off the tongue well, unlike Fun Dip. Anyway. Yeah, it sticks to your tongue.

Catch you guys in the next video. Pace. Waveform is produced by Adam Alain and Ellis-Rovin, our partner with Vox Media Podcast Network and our Trouther Music was created by Vain Still. Wait, can you do one who you say? I feel like I slurred all of those. Can you say one where Waveform was produced by a Minion and a Pirate?

Wave, Wayform was produced by a Pirate and a Minion. We were partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network, and our Trouther Music was created by Vain Still. But when they bought U-Torrent, it was speculated. Wait, did you just say the thing outside? Wait, what? Yeah, you did. Oh, f***.

He totally did. David didn't hear it. It was finally me. New question. I'm sorry. Can I bring us back in? You're a wizard. You can.

You're a wizard. You're a wizard. He's a pirate. I'm a pirate, actually. Yeah. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact.

You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Think enterprise software is too costly, too complex, and takes, too long to get up and running, think again. Workday go makes simplifying your small or mid-sized

business simple. HR and finance together on one powerful AI platform right at your fingertips. Workday go gets you live fast and fits the needs of your business. Find out what Workday go can do for you. Go with Workday Go.