Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - This Could Be The Best Smartphone Camera

Episode Date: July 8, 2022

This week we had a few rapid-fire topics as Marques and Andrew discuss everything from the new Xiaomi 12S Ultra smartphone to Tesla vehicles automatically adjusting the suspension to avoid potholes. After that, we finish up with a ton of trivia to round out season 1 of the trivia show! It's a fun one and things may or may not get a little chaotic towards the end. Hope you enjoy it! Links: Studio Matchcut: https://bit.ly/matchcut1 Xiaomi 12S Ultra review: https://bit.ly/xiaomi12sultra Hummer article: https://bit.ly/3uwxivI Tesla pothole article: https://bit.ly/3RjslA3 BMW Automotive article: https://bit.ly/3yOtxEl Smartphone Firsts article: https://bit.ly/3P8Dmm7 Twitters: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/adamlukas17 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ Shop the merch: shop.mkbhd.com Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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we're your hosts i'm marquez and i'm andrew and uh we've got what are we doing basically a lightning round day yeah i have just it's been like there's been a lot of stuff in tech news but not like a bunch of big stories so i just basically wrote down i think i have like five or six interesting titles we're gonna blurt them out we're just gonna talk about them really quick and that's gonna be to be the episode. And as we promised, we are doing, wait for trivia to the end. We are not going to do it at the ad break because we are kind of going to do the season one trivia wrap up this

week. I'm a lot of points behind, so we're going to try and see if I can claw my way back into the I heard we're going to have some sort of a mathematical way of it being exciting. Maybe you can catch up. I have not heard that.

It might be a thing. I need to start paying attention in the studio. We'll see. I got ears everywhere. Cool. I am going to, before we get into that, Studio Channel. We made a new series we're calling Match Cut, which is just kind of like competition style videos at the studio. And we did one with a contest of Vin, David, and Brandon having to create the best top-down shot kind of chop style. I loved it.

They're all competing against each other. It's funny because they take like real effort to like win. And so I feel like we'll have like little lulls in the year where there's not too much tech coming out. And then boom, we'll go Office Olympics on and just make a competition out of it so this is a fun one it was a pretty classic who can make the best top down yeah and i'll just leave it at that just go watch it it's a fun video and if you have suggestions for other other versions of match cut leave your leave your comments there's already some really good suggestions perfect that i'm

pumped for perfect Perfect. Okay. So do you want me? I'll just read out headlines and then you riff off it. Pick one and we'll do it. Cool. Let's just start really quick with the, we got some of the specs for the nothing phone and still haven't seen a price, but they're taking pre-orders, which I think is hilarious.

Yeah. So we now know that it's a Snapdragon 778G. That's the chip that's inside so again we're i guess we were kind of talking about this a little bit last week yes where it was like how is this phone going to differentiate itself against all the other phones it's a it's a startup company and i think we saw these lights and the transparent design and it was pretty clear that that's going to be how it differentiates itself rather than the previous Carl Pei playbook,

which is we're going to appeal to enthusiasts and give it the full-on best specs for the money treatment. This is definitely not that. The 7 Series chip is fine, but it's not going to be one of those, like, wow, I want this one because of the specs yeah you're not maxing out this phone um like you said like the old one was kind of like you were the sleeper phone you had all the specs you had all the power from it and then you were

making a couple sacrifices on the rest reminds me it reminds me of that meme where i think it's usually used about nfts but it's like a guy on the corner of a party like nobody here knows that i have 18 gigs of ram on my phone but i do it's one of guy in the corner of a party. Like nobody here knows that I have 18 gigs of Ram on my phone, but I do. It's one of those things. I could see the OnePlus phones, but with the nothing phone, it'll just be right in your face. It'll flash, flash right in your face. Yeah. It'll see everybody knows that I have the phone that lights up on the back. Um, yeah, I think I kind of, and I think knowing this solidified my, my thought process on it a little more, which was this feels like it's kind of going similar to their headphones. I call it like the Beats route, which is like I am a very fun, interesting to look at phone.

My design is really cool. Like holding this phone is cool. And I'm going to now, it looks like the sacrifices are going to be made on the performance side, which is still a good performance, but like beats aren't going to compare to like the Sony in terms of sound quality, but they're going to like look cooler than the Sony. So I was going to ask, are you saying,

are you going with like 2009 beats or like 2019 beats? Am I that behind on beats? 2009 beats were like, they're going to be more expensive and they're going to be flashy and they're going to spend money on ads, but they're going to sound legitimately crazy if you actually want good quality.

They just have huge bass. They don't sound good. Where in 2019, they sound fine, but they're clearly not the focus still. That. Newer age. This is going to be a fine phone and the majority of people who use it are going to be they sound fine but they're clearly not the focus still that newer age like this is going to be a fine phone

and the majority of people who use it are going to be happy with it but like the focus is the design it's hard to make a bad phone at this point

it's pretty hard okay yeah so we know about it I think they had something like 200,000 people yeah pre-orders this phone

and they all paid $25 non-refundable to get in line non-refundable to me is interesting i do not know how i feel about that i don't know how they landed on 25 but non-refundable i'm not a big fan of but it's only it's only 25 this is the thing if they're like non-refundable 50 i'd be like that's a lot that's too much money if they said non-refundable five dollars i'd be like that's no money why would you're like non-refundable $50, I'd be like, that's a lot. That's too much money. If they said non-refundable $5, I'd be like, that's no money. Why would you even say non-refundable? Just make it refundable. People just get in line for five bucks. But non-refundable $25 feels like fundraising. It's just right in that gray area.

I don't like it. And it's like, I do agree with you. $25 doesn't seem that bad, but like, let's compare it to pre-ordering like Cybertruck was $100, right? $100 refundable, but $100 compared to the, let's assume, $50,000 plus price tag on it. It's a very small margin.

The ratio between the pre-order? I feel like if you make the comparison, the ratio has to be mentioned there. And like, $100 for a car

is not that bad of a, and it's refundable. Yeah. So if we just guesstimate the price of the phone, that would be kind of like the equivalent of paying like several thousand dollars to pre-order a Cybertruck. And it's non-refundable. And you don't know the specs of the Cybertruck

and you don't know the final price of the Cybertruck and the credit will go there if you buy it, but you'll have to wait in line for it and you won't know what it is. So you better hope it's similar. That's a really good point. I don't know. It's a very interesting

and unfortunately not very surprising way they're handling it. So I can't, but 200,000 pre-orders, that's like 5 million. That's a lot of people. There you go. Okay. Great start for nothing, I guess.

Yeah. Let's go into why we're on the topic of phone let's just check out the xiaomi mi 12s ultra oh this one we are right here dubbing this the minion phone this is uh yeah okay so video viewers i'm holding it audio listeners just picture a phone where you've seen like the iphone has like a triple camera array at the top with the pros and it's up in the corner. And then you've seen like some that have an even bigger like triple camera array. Imagine just one gigantic like Cyclops eye in the middle of the top of the phone. That's what this is.

It kind of looks like a Minion if you squint and it was wearing overalls. A matte black everything. A matte black. Well, it's like a leatherette, a squint and it was wearing overalls. A matte black everything. A matte black. Well, it's like a leatherette, a fake leather back. But this is the phone. I've had a lot of, you know what? I have a hot take about this phone. Okay.

I'm still testing it and we're still working on what will turn into our video about it. Okay. But overall, solid phone, right? Very high end specs. This is the Ultra from Xiaomi. So you remember the Xiaomi, I think it was the 11 Ultra last year, which had the screen on the back and the whole crazy back of the phone thing.

So this is their high-end phone. 6.7 inch, 120 Hertz, LTPO OLED, Snapdragon 8 Plus Gen 1, high-end chip, IP68 water resistance, 4,860 milliamp hour battery, chargers at 67 watts, wireless chargers at 50 reverse wireless chargers at 10 watts it's got all the features um but the cameras are the main like the clear thing and from the two and a half days that i've used it this this smartphone is the hot take is capable of the best smartphone

photos of any camera, any smartphone. That's not where I thought you were going. And I'm here for it. It's just a couple of things I've noticed. And I'll show you some of these two as I'm talking about. I mean, can we talk about the tweet that you posted actually, where you were, you know, we're giving it away here, but you tweeted two photos. It's kind of like under a bridge on a field at nighttime with a big stadium light on. One is from the Galaxy S22 Ultra and one you just posted a mystery contender.

Well, spoiler alert, it is the Minion phone. And a lot of people are guessing a lot of different things in here. To be honest, I like the 12S photo better. It is the one on the right. It is a little bit brighter, a little bit, sorry, a little more vibrant and saturated. It definitely handles the exposure way better and has way less noise and way better highlight protection.

Yeah. Well, yeah, the lights is where is the clear difference here. Like one is just a ball of light and the other is like you can actually see all the individual lights. Yeah, it is more vibrant. I would like to see this is a fairly dull landscape in terms of colors. So while it's vibrant of that, they're all dull already. So that just makes it look nice. I think warm and the graffiti looks really nice and all the the stone looks nice

but i'm a fan of it there's a i'm going to show you some pictures but generally here's why i'm such a big fan of this camera and like a phone that looks like this it better have a good camera right you pull this out at a party or something yeah like you this is this is for the camera uh dynamic range and fine detail okay those are the two things that this phone does really, really well. Sometimes it overdoes the HDR, but in general, dynamic range and fine detail. The Leica color thing, you know, it's okay. I'm not always a fan of Leica color,

but they do have the ability to toggle between Leica natural color and Leica vivid color or something like that. I've kind of gone back and forth, but I've taken more with vivid than natural. Really? But really here, it, actually I'm gonna add a third thing. Okay.

Now that I'm rambling. So it's dynamic range. It is fine detail and it is shutter speed. Okay. All those things combined. So I take pictures of fast moving objects and they freeze. look at this photo i just took with the 5x lens that is really good it's shooting with sunlight behind the subject that is a really nice photo really good fine detail and dynamic range and i don't even think twice about if the subject's moving or not it's going to freeze it no matter

what which is awesome if you're taking pictures of like moving dogs. We took a lot of pictures of the dog. Your kids or at the zoo. Probably the number one thing people take pictures on with smartphones. So it does great with that. And then you take photos like directly into the sun. Just overall, I'm very impressed

with a lot of these pictures. You remember Zuri sprinting around earlier? The dog was just a blur before. Didn't ever stop moving. But lots of pictures with the shallow depth of field of just the dog seemingly frozen in place. Here's one I took last night. Feel free to zoom in on the depth of field on the cleats

versus the ground behind it. That does not look like a smartphone photo. This looks fantastic. And not just that, but there's also reflections in the water that's on the ground behind it. That does not look like a smartphone photo. This looks fantastic. And not just that, but there's also reflections in the water that's on the ground. And it handles all the highlights and the noise. A really nice poke in the back. Yeah, and your cleats have a lot of detail on them,

which it's nailing. You can see the dirt and all the different, and the laces and the fly knit. I take a picture like that on pretty much every phone I test because I probably have practiced that week of whatever week I'm testing a phone. And the fly knit. I take a picture like that on pretty much every phone I test because I probably have practiced that week of whatever week I'm testing a phone. And the gravel too. Yeah, I was just very impressed with that.

The gravel is a great, so like for audio listeners, this is a picture of Marques sitting down on the ground with his feet in front of him and then just kind of the field. He's on asphalt, then there's grass, then there's people in the grass, then there's a skyline in the background. But on the asphalt, you can see that just roll off of the focus roll. Yeah. It's so nice. Yeah. Yeah. And it rolls off into like the puddle. It's so good. So listen, I still have some more testing to do. I'm working on the video. There are some quirks and weird

things about it that I still don't like. Like it is a huge sensor and it still fringes when you get really close to subjects. It still loves to try to switch to the ultra wide macro when you get even closer to a subject. I'm going to show you one more picture that I took on the roof. I can tell you real quick why you're pulling this up. One thing I very much dislike about it and the fake leather back is terrible. Don't do this on a smartphone. I feel like the fake leather back is what a lot of cheaper phones do

to try and feel more premium. And this makes it feel like a cheaper phone, even though this is a- It's not a good fake leather. It's not a good fake leather. There are some good fake leathers. I have yet to feel that. There are some bad fake leathers.

That I can remember. This is bad don't like it at all you know the roof of this building super windy and you know those plants up on the roof

that just like wave back and forth in the wind frozen in time shallow depth of field just straight like captured it didn't even think twice

the thing was blowing back and forth in and out of the frame and it happened to get in the middle of the frame was it really and it happened to get in the middle of the frame and nailed that shot dynamic range is on point no noise

like it is it has the highest ceiling of any smartphone camera I've ever used I think that's that's my hot take

alright early contender for some awards in the future it's really good I'm gonna it's gonna be hard to beat that from what I've seen

but yeah you heard the Minion name here first I think we're gonna try to do a Minion awards in the future. It's really good. It's going to be hard to beat that from what I've seen. But yeah. You heard the Minion name here first. I think we're going to try to do a Minion thumbnail for this. Of course. Obviously. And I also heard you're wearing overalls for the review. Well, we'll see. We'll see.

You heard it here first. Yellow. Heard it here first. Yeah. No, it's a high end phone. Yeah. Well, I think everything else will go over in the video, which you should see pretty shortly. Yeah, yeah.

Hopefully next week, maybe. No pressure. I'll try to have it out by the episode. Oh, let's put the pressure on. Everyone tweet at him nonstop. That's what he loves. That's the best way to get videos fast is to just constantly berate your favorite content creator

with the thing that you want that they might not be working on, but I promise you it works perfectly. All right. We'll go to an ad I promise you it works perfectly. All right. We'll go to an ad break so you can type your tweet up right now. Be right back. All right. Be right back.

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Let's talk about a couple more headlines. We another one coming up you pick this one this is my favorite my favorite of the whole episode i'm just gonna read the headline then we can go from there the headline is gm is reportedly only making about 12 hummer evs per day okay um interesting that's rough that's rough okay so in the beginning so we've heard uh whenever we talk about manufacturing you have to like ramp up manufacturing right so you start at a low number and then you ramp up to high so they're not going to be making 12 a day forever they're going to start at six a day then then 12 a day, then 50 a day, then 100, then 300. So at this point right now, they're at 12 a day.

It might take a while if they only do 12 a day for a while. Do you want me to give the reason for it first, or do you want to dunk on them a little longer? No, is there a reason? Do we know? Yeah, pretty much it's that right now they have to rely on all their batteries from LG while their battery plants are being built, which should be coming up pretty soon. And obviously they should be producing far more.

But like, if we want to just pretend, like, let's just stick on the 12 number. For comparison, Rivian's making about 30 to 40 EVs a day. So I'm assuming that's just R1T though, because R1S I don't think is in production yet. We were just trying to figure that out this morning because we're seeing videos of it start to pop up. Reviews of the R1S just went live, which leads me to believe you are going to start seeing them on the road. I do think so, yeah. But I think it's still mostly R1T by volume.

Okay. And the Ford, I don't know if they're just like memeing here, but they are making 150 F-150 Lightnings a day, which, I mean, I think we all kind of saw Ford doing that because the F-150 is pretty much an already built truck where the Hummer EV

is the Hummer EV, the gargantuan whatever that is not already a body on something. Okay, but I just, like, found some other. Oh, also, if they were to continue shipping

at 12 a day it would take 17 and a half years to deliver to everybody on the wait list yeah they gotta ramp it up that's fantastic by the way 150 f-150 lightnings doesn't sound like that much either it doesn't sound like that much but they also just started delivering like a month ago right right so they're gonna ramp up they'll probably aim for i would day, then 1,000 a day. I believe. So we talked about it a few weeks ago, but I think batteries are also a limiting factor there.

And they're opening a new plant in Georgia, I believe. I think batteries are going to be the thing that's going to limit pretty much everybody for a while. The price is hard to make exactly um but in this article there's just a couple one other fun fact that i found about the hummer ev which i think has been out for a long time but i don't know how i missed it but the hummer ev battery just the battery weighs as much as a honda civic just the battery weighs as much as a Honda Civic. Just the battery weighs as much as a Honda Civic? How big is the, isn't the Hummer EV have like a,

I guess it is massive, but isn't it like 180 kilowatt hour battery or something crazy? Funny enough, when I was looking, I didn't see the exact spec. I do know it's 2,923 pounds for just the battery. Just the battery? That's more, that's heavier than some entire sports cars like the lightest sports cars are about

2,900 to 3,000 pounds that's awesome so the whole Hummer EV is 9,000 pounds for reference the F-150 Lightning is 6,500 pounds so if you took the battery out of the Hummer EV it would weigh a little bit less than an F-150 Lightning

the Hummer is basically a small tank again. That thing is, this is going to be on the roads with people. 9,000 pounds. I guess, okay, on one hand, what's the difference between a 6,000 pound truck hurling at you and a 9,000 pound truck hurling at you? But on the other hand, brakes. That's a lot of mass to be thrown around wow and that thing

accelerates too like a normal ev it accelerates fast pretty quickly 9 000 pounds oh my god yeah so uh hummer ev i'll be okay if it stays at 12 a day because i do if i'm being honest i'm scared to be on the road with them i've said that that many times. What else weighs 9,000 pounds? That's a good question. Can you think of something off your head and I'll fact check it? Okay. Something that weighs 9,000 pounds, a bison, fully grown bison. Seems like it might be more actually. I think it's less.

Really? Oh no, a male adult, 1,000 to 2,200 pounds. Damn, bison. Bison's only 1,000 pounds? A small one. They can get up to 2,200 pounds. Damn, bison. Bison's only 1,000 pounds? A small one. Oh. They can get up to 2,200 pounds. Adult yak. I should Google adult yak weight. Only 1,200 pounds. All right. I was pretty off. It's about eight yaks. It's eight yaks. In case you're wondering. Yeah. No, I'm expecting to see all of these slowly ramp ramp up I think they're all gonna have low volume numbers as as you mentioned it's hard to make cars right now not only just the batteries but

like the computers the chips inside the parts the pieces the materials so yeah these are the companies that we expect to be good at ramping up scale Ford GM they know how to make cars quickly Rivian Tesla the startups we have to see what they end up doing because they have to prove that i guess tesla's proven tesla's proven it rivian has a lot to prove and then like i guess on the other hand like we've said before is like ford gm has to prove the right now the battery ramp up is where they have to prove it because like their production factories know what they're doing their production factories know what they're doing their assembly lines know what they're doing the gigafactory was a real good idea remember when

it was in a tent yes that still blows my mind that's when we shot that interview with elon as we did the model 3 and model y or sorry they were doing model s and model x in the factory and they were cranking out 3 and Y from a tent next door. I like go outside today and then imagine people working in a tent doing that. I mean, I guess there's a lot of robots, but like... Some air conditioning. It's hot. Yeah, yeah. Okay, next thing on our list, I have Tesla scans for potholes

and can adjust vehicle suspension to avoid damage. So this is a potential update coming up. And I'm going to read one of the notes really quickly because I'm having a hard time figuring out what it does. Even though that sounds like really obvious, right? Scans for potholes adjust suspension to avoid damage. So release notes, the update will be... Why does it just say 2022?

It's a new software version. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. And it says we'll be able to scan ahead for potholes and adjust suspension according to rough roads. But it does also say this adjustment may occur at various locations subject to availability as the vehicle downloads rough road map data generated by Tesla cars. So I can't tell if this is scanning and when it sees a pothole adjusts, or if it is always

scanning, sending data back to Tesla, calling a road or like putting a road as a rough road in Tesla's data. So now when any Tesla goes over it, the suspension just changes. The second one. Okay. So right now the air suspension in a Model S and Model X, they can adjust in real time, but it's, it's like a one or two second thing and it's happening. So if you come up on a pothole at highway speed, it's not like you can just see it and adjust. That's not happening. But as of right now, there are a couple of things that the car is already do. I remember a couple of years ago saying this in a video and it really blew people's minds where if I have a steep driveway and I pull up to my driveway and I go, you know what? I'd like to raise the suspension to not like scrape.

I raise the suspension, pull in the driveway. Every time the car gets back to that GPS location, it goes, ah, last time you were here, you raised the suspension and it does it again automatically. it goes, ah, last time you were here, you raised the suspension and it does it again automatically. And so it starts doing that. And there are parts of the highway that I notice where I'm driving, where I don't even ask it to, but I see a little message saying, raising the suspension for comfort. And it's a rougher section of the road. So I believe it's already doing a rough something like this, where cars are driving around all the time and they're collecting tons of suspension data and you can see that live data like you go over a bunch of potholes in a row like you can see it on the on the diagram in the car and so yeah it will decide to raise and lower

the suspension when that happens so i suspect for all of the cars in the fleet now there's data all over the world for rough roads i don't know if it's visually scanning for actual potholes. I think it is scanning for potholes and sending that data back. And then in the future when that road becomes, that is when it'll adjust the suspension. So I think the phrase scanning for potholes implies visual, but it could easily be scanning for potholes with the suspension data. It could be doing it a bunch of different ways. When I read that headline, though, I imagine, like, you know, like, laser beams going across the road and being like,

oh, a pothole, like, fix yourself really quick. It does say that there was some rumor that there may be a 3D mapping with obstacle avoidance in the future, which would be more rather than change the suspension, but get you away from a pothole if you miss it. Those ones sneak up on you. I think overall, this is cool. Maybe not as cool as the headline makes it sound,

but also if at any point that suspension change can help you not get a flat tire or something like once, I think it's super worth it. Kearney's the worst. If Tesla wants to full-blown test this, they should drive it around. We got a road. Yeah, yeah.

Trust me. Actually, you might be doing a ton of data back to the- I've sent plenty of information to the fleet. Exactly. For sure. This is the kind of cool stuff that like, this is why Tesla is going to be so far ahead because the amount of things they have scanning right now and the information they're gaining is going to be so far ahead because the amount of things they have scanning right now

and the information they're gaining is going to be more than everyone else. Yeah, information systems. Yeah. Information wars. Do you think they'll ever license it and sell it? No, no. I think that would be the smart move.

I don't think they're even able, well, in a privacy-focused world, they can't even see the data. It's just the cars working with the data. True. That's what they want you to think. They want you to believe that anyway. Okay. Next headline. Last one. And this is pretty small, but BMW is the latest to adopt Android Automotive. BMW, the company basically is saying that in March, 2023, some of their new infotainment systems are going to be Android Automotive-based. And just to reiterate here,

because this is something I just learned very recently, the difference between Android Auto and Android Automotive is Android Automotive is in your car, in your car's infotainment system, and your car is running. It is the car's infotainment system. It is the car's. It doesn't have anything to do with your phone.

Yeah. It obviously can connect to your phone and everything, but it's not running off of your phone like Android Auto is. I think this is awesome. Yeah. Google needs to work on their naming to make that a little more clear. So we know the difference between Android Auto and Android Automotive. But, yes.

And that also is funny because didn't we just see that the Polestar, which runs on Android Automotive, just added CarPlay support? I think that's awesome because that means you're not going to get stuck in it in the future. That's true. People aren't going to not buy a car because it has it. That's true. I get so focused on the companies that I'm like, why would they ever enable that? But also I'm like, yeah, sweet.

I would love to have that. Android Automotive, Android anything is going to be better than pretty much any automotive infotainment system. They're all terrible. We've said that a million times. I don't like making blanket statements, but I feel very comfortable saying every in-car's built-in infotainment system is bad.

Period. Across the board. All of them. 100%. So, yeah, I don't mind supporting Android Automotive and Android Auto and CarPlay. And CarPlay, yeah. All good, all good stuff.

All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll come back. We're out of our headlines, but we're into our trivia. See you in a second. This is an ad from BetterHelp. This holiday season, do something for a special person in your life. You. Give yourself the gift of better mental health.

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HR, and more onto one unified platform, letting you streamline operations and cut down on costs. Thank you. and machine learning may affect your business and how to best seize this new opportunity. So you can download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash waveform. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, welcome back to the final section of this week's podcast where I have no notes. All it says is trivia finale showdown. Yeah, I think we talked last week about I was so far behind in points.

Let's maybe wrap it up. We're going to keep doing trivia. I have to say thank you, everyone, for giving us feedback on trivia. It's something Adam thought of a few months ago, and we wanted to try it, and everyone loved it. So now it's part of the show. It's fun. We love it.

I like it. So we're kind of doing like imagine imagine this as like the season one finale and then next episode season two will start. So we're keeping, we're still doing it. Okay. But I know nothing else about what's happening from now on.

It's like Final Jeopardy of season one. I don't know. Maybe. It's like a Final Jeopardy where it's own TV show and that would be an awesome TV show. Why have they never done only Final Jeopardy the show?

Well, because you have to get the first part of the Jeopardy! to build up the points so that people can double Jeopardy! Anyway, whatever. Ellis and Adam, what's going on? Whoa! Welcome to Trivia Final Showdown the waveform episode.

So this is how this is going to go. We're going to have a few questions and rounds and things like that. I'm going to ask a couple questions about tech, phones, cars, companies in general, whatever. I love this so much. It's cracking up. So we're going to take the suggestion of a lovely commenter last week, Ramazan Samat, I think his name is. I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, but thank you so much because he had the idea to let Andrew answer first a couple questions

so that there's a hope that you can catch up. So it would be a little. I also think this is like what he suggested was every week when we do trivia is the person who's behind should get the first chance to answer the question and then if they get it wrong then the next person can steal so if you're ahead and the person so behind answers first and gets it wrong then you can then you can get it and get the question okay otherwise i can't answer i like that yeah i think that's an interesting thing i guess we're doing it today but also just like going forward in general. I like it.

So it'll make it hurt so much more when I get all of these wrong. Okay. We'll see. I'm going to close my laptop so no one thinks I'm cheating. Although when I get them all wrong, no one will think I'm cheating anyways.

Okay. So first question. Kudos on that music, by the way. That was all. Just interrupting very quickly. That was, I felt like I was in a game show there for a second. Yeah, that was a good choice.

He played that for me earlier and I was cracking up. I was like, absolutely. Andrew. Let's see what the score is. First, the score is 14 Marquez. Andrew, 8. Woof. Let's go. first question to Andrew

what year did the Nexus Q come out I hope the next question is not what is the Nexus Q because I also don't know what that is but I will take a guess 2011 correct 2011 let's go 2011. Correct.

2011. Let's go. Can I know what the thought process was for that guess? I don't know when Android came out sometime when I was in college. So, no, a little before college. No, in college. Yeah, I just guessed a year in college. So, no, a little before college. No, in college. Yeah, I just guessed a year in college. I don't even remember when I went to college at this point.

Great. Do you know what the Nexus Q was? No. Do you know what it looks like? Why a tablet is what I'm guessing for some reason. So it came out at the same time as a Nexus tablet. Okay. But it was an orb-shaped media player that was discontinued immediately.

I need to see a picture of this right now. The reviews destroyed it. Immediately. I need this. This sounds awesome. Was it like literally like a month? I think I at one point did a list of the fastest discontinued tech products of all time, and it was like top five.

Was it faster than the Celeron Pixel Slate? Probably. I think it was. I think so? Probably. I think it was. I think so, yeah. I think it was. Because Celeron Pixel Slate hit the shelves, and then real people bought it, and then the reviews hit.

Sorry, I need to look this thing up. Nexus Q, yeah. Look up, wait. Nexus Q is kind of one of the quirkiest pieces. I also thought it was 2012, so I'm glad you got that right. It kind of looks like Amazon Echo now that I'm looking at it.

It does, a lot. Like a smooth version of the... Yeah. They were first. Oh. What? Wait. This is so much worse than I thought it was.

What does it do? It's just a ball with plugs in the back. You plug it into your TV and it was just... It was like a Chromecast but worse. It didn't do anything. It was like Google Play Movies. Samsung needs to buy the leftover stock of this and turn this into the Bixby speaker.

Okay, so you plug this into your TV, and it would stream Google services for you instead of the TV streaming it. So you don't have a smart TV. You plug it in. Now you have Google Play Movies. Oh, that makes way more sense. Yeah, but it's just Google Play Movies.

Okay, so it was like, did Chromecast get developed from this pretty much? It came shortly after. Supposedly, the Chromecast was developed by a different team.

The queue walked so Chromecast could run. Exactly. Exactly. I love that. I want one of these so bad right now. I think you can probably

pick one up on eBay for about 30 cents. We need to get one. We need to get one. But good job. Way to get that one. We need to get one. But good job. Way to get that one. Got it. Nice.

Okay. Next question. And Andrew's still down, so he'll get first dibs. All right. Physical challenge. Yeah. Do 28 jumping jacks. No.

Marcus. What does the S in HTTPS stand for? That one I know. System? That one I know. System? That one I know. I'm trying to remember what all of HTTPS stands for. It's funny because when I first made mkbhd.com, I made it through Squarespace

and I got the most complaints I ever got for as garbage as that website was. All the complaints were like, why isn't it secure? Why isn't it HTTPS? Marques, you could have made a secure website. So I know that the S stands for secure. I'm trying to remember.

So hypertext transfer protocol secure? Oh, that I do not know. I think that's what HTTPS stands for. Ellis is giving me the thumbs up. So yes, correct. Sure. Let's go with that. I'm mad I didn't know that

because of your reasoning. You remember these comments? Yes, I do. They were so bad, they were taking me in it. Yes, I remember that. I'm mad I didn't know that because of your reasoning. You remember these comments? Yes, I do. They were so bad, they were taking me in it. Like, I... Yes, I remember that. It is secure now. MKBHD.com. You can go check. It is secure now. With a capital S. So is shop at MKBHD.com.

Alright, next question. This one's hard. This is Andrew's. This is just embarrassing, Andrew. Seagate's first hard drive, the ST506, was released in 1980. How much storage did it come with? Can you say the name again? Seagate's first hard drive, the ST506.

Whoever gets the closest without going over will get the point. Without going over? Yeah. 86? It was released in 1980. How much storage did it come with? 1980. Like that's going to be so low that I don't think I'm even going to get the unit correct. Like, okay. So the first storage piece of anything I ever bought was a thumb drive in high school. That was one gigabyte and it was $80. I'll always remember that because what you can buy for $80 right now is insane. Like probably over a terabyte.

You can grab a terabyte for 60 bucks. So like if that was in 2004, 2005, like 1980, we're talking kilobytes. 25 years. We're talking kilobytes. I'm going to guess 500 kilobytes. I was going to go way lower. I don't know how to get much lower than that. My only context, and it's kind of the same with a lot of thinking as you, is I remember having a Windows 95 computer

that had its RAM measured in kilobytes. I think it was 128 kilobytes of RAM. But again, that's 1995. It has to keep going. That's also flash storage and not a hard disk. Interesting. So, okay. Fair.

I'm still going lower though. I'm still going to go based on the name 50 kilobytes. I almost wanted to say gonna go based on the name 50 kilobytes I almost wanted to say 506 because of the name but like there's no way it's 50 bytes it's gotta be more you wouldn't buy 50 bytes of storage

I don't think so I'm gonna go 50 thousand bytes there is someone out there nope that was like into tech in the 80s that is just cringing very mad at us and I apologize to you, sir. So Andrew gets the point because he was closest. The correct answer is five megabytes.

Five megabytes. I wanted to say one megabyte, but that felt like too much. Yeah. What did you say? 500 kilobytes. Kilobytes. I said 50 kilobytes. Yeah.

Good for them. Five megabytes. Good for Seagate, man. That first product wow they took a while to get I mean I'm sure yeah

I'm sure they got faster woof is all I can say yeah 5 megabytes wow alright next question

which of the following is not a 2000's mobile operating system you could store two YouTube thumbnails on that. Yeah. And have space for a couple text documents. Yeah, you couldn't edit them

because the project file would be too big, but you could store the thumbnail. I'm sorry I interrupted, but that just like dawned on me. I'm always down for a chance to dunk on YouTube's thumbnail limit. Yeah, that is ridiculous that that is a limit. Wait, what's the score now? The score, Marquez 15, Andrew 10.

Okay. So Andrew is still getting first dates on questions. I know, okay. Just to be clear. Thank you, I'm sorry. Which of the following is not a 2000s mobile operating system? Good luck. Symbian, Danger OS, or BOS?

When you say 2000, it's just like... At any point in the year, 2000 through 2001. I mean, 2009. 2009. Okay, okay. I still don't know any of them. I just wanted to... I don't...

Danger OS seems very dated. I'm going to guess Danger OS. Nope. Oh, this one's... Chance to steal? Yeah, that would be... BOS is not the real one. Oh, is it not real or is it not...

It's not real at all. No. BOS is a real operating system. B like B-E-E? B-E-O-S was an operating system for power PC laptops in the early 2000s. I guess I heard BOS and I just thought of like the B movie for some reason. Wait, wait, it was in the early 2000s? Yeah.

Simbi and I have definitely heard of. Yeah. What's Danger OS? Danger OS, I believe, was for the sidekick. Why would you ever name your own OS Danger OS? I think the company was called Danger. Was it?

Wasn't the company who made the sidekick called Danger? Now that I don't know. Imagine in today's age with all this like with privacy being so important naming something Danger OS. And then like your mom signing on to you, and their phone says Danger as they boot the phone up. The Danger hip-top.

Danger the company made the sidekick. Yeah. Wow. I'll take the point, but that's a lot of new information for me right there. Yeah, that's the point of trivia. Learn something new is good. All right, so the score. Marquez, 16.

Andrew, 10. So Andrew gets first dibs on the question. This is a hilarious formality. I love it. It's rough to be in the hot seat. Andrew. Yes. What year did Bill Gates graduate from college?

Oh, man. I did watch his documentary okay good start great start wasn't one of the things that popped out to me uh it was interesting there's a reason for that night oh did he not graduate college

is that your final answer? Can I get it? I kind of think you gave that one away. I know. I was trying to help. Okay, thank you. At least it was on purpose. I was doing the math of like, okay, he's about my parents' age.

And what year did they? Also, what school did Bill Gates? Wait a second. Did he not go to any school? I thought he did go to. I think he dropped out of Stanford. I think he dropped out from somewhere. Is it Stanford?

I didn't even... The thing I will remember from... I forget if it was from that or just like... Is he always met with Warren Buffett? And have you ever seen the video of Warren Buffett eating a cheeseburger or a hamburger when he was eating with Bill Gates? He opens the burger up at like a diner dumps salt onto the top of it flips the burger over it takes the bottom bun off and then

puts more salt it is it is like watching the video my jaw is just like on the floor like how is this man still alive right now but Oh my God. He's like preserving his insides. Find that video, yeah. Yeah, that burger does not change in his gullet at all. Incredible. All right, so score is 16 Marquez, Andrew 11. Yep. So now we're going to do a smartphone speed round. Smartphone speed round.

To close this out. It sounds like it would be way more fun if Marquez is guessing first. Marquez can guess first if you want to give him that right. Is it speed round? What are the rules for speed round? So the rules for speed round,

I'm glad you asked. You have 30 seconds to answer as many questions correctly as we give you. Okay. Okay. Do you think there are enough questions for us both to get 30 seconds?

Yes. Okay, cool. Yeah. We have five for each of you and then I could just start picking random questions. So you will get five dedicated smartphone ones. And then if you fly, if you fly past those and you get them all correct, I have a bunch more that I can choose from that won't be smartphone related, but I doubt you'll get past the first five. So it's fine. Yes. I mean, this is hard because as you can tell when I don't know, I just make bad jokes instead and those take up a lot of time. So you will get one point if you get the manufacturer correct, two points for the phone.

Okay. Shout out to Android Authority for some of the things on this list, by the way, because they made the list. Shout out. We just took them all. So you're ready with the timer? Say you first. Yeah, let's do this.

Well, you can choose to let Marques go first if you want, or you can go first. It's up to you. I'll suffer. Let's go. You'll do it? All right. Three, two, one, go. First smartphone with dual cameras.

iPhone 6. Yeah, I knew that one. First front-facing camera phone. iPhone 4. First phone with a notch. The essential phone? First smartphone with NFC. Nexus 4.

First phone with reverse wireless charging. That's tight. Oh, okay. first phone with reverse wireless charging oh okay i'm also going to clarify because i the essential phone but that was the ph1 yeah okay yeah yeah you got that one okay mark has off the top of your head which ones are those did you know i think all of them oh wait can we was it the htc evo 3dD? We had a dual answer here because technically the Evo 3D did have dual cameras. We also would have accepted the HTC One M8 because that had the first modern dual camera, right?

Yeah. Do you know which one had the first front-facing camera? Was it the 4S? No. Oh, it was before the 4S? We found a Kyocera phone from 1999 that had a front-facing camera. Okay, I wouldn't have gotten that. Okay, so we have a similar guess.

In fact, this Kyocera phone can hold not one, not two, but 20 JPEG images. That's a lot of YouTube thumbnails right there. That's a lot. That's solid. It's like 10. Yeah, not bad. Okay, all right. Did you know?

Well, I'll start off the next one with that. So wait, let's tally it up. So I got one. You got the Essential phone. And a half. And the Nexus phone. So that's three points. You should not give me that half credit.

Well, you got the phone, so that's two. I got the phone? Yeah, you said the Nexus S, didn't you? Oh, no, you said Nexus 4. Oh, never mind. Nexus is one point. I'll give the Nexus. I'll give the Nexus. I lose anyway. I'll give a point out of the goodness of the time

this has three points three points at home if you've been keeping track and you're tied with me you win that's how that works so Marquez this is kind of like a victory lap because the score right now is 16-14 don't injure yourself

on the victory lap we the score right now is 16-14. Right, right, right. Don't injure yourself on the victory lap. Don't go backwards. We still got another season, so you don't want to have a career-ending injury. Okay. Okay. Ready, set, go. First phone with reverse wireless charging. Oh, that one I don't know.

Pass. First phone with Bluetooth. iPhone 3G first capacitive touchscreen iPhone 1 first fingerprint sensor fingerprint sensor at all? yep on the phone

iPhone 5 nope first phone with Qi wireless charging Jesus Galaxy Nexus I don't know wow that was a good with Qi wireless charging? Jesus. Galaxy Nexus. I don't know. Wow.

That was a good set of questions. That was time. All right. Yeah, nope. I feel like these are all obscure. Yeah, they're a little. And they were more obscure. I had to find features we actually know and care about to find these phones.

It's funny because in a speed round, I think of the notable introduction of the future, which is definitely not the first one. Like I think of when the first iPhone got a fingerprint sensor. I'm like, that was not the first one with a fingerprint sensor, but that's the first one that I remember with a fingerprint sensor. Yep. All right.

So you didn't get any points for that. Yeah, zero. Hit me with the real answers. So first phone with reverse wireless charging the Huawei Mate 20 Pro oh I think I did a video on that phone first phone with Bluetooth

the Sony Ericsson T36 was never gonna get that first phone with a capacitive touchscreen the LG Prada

way back oh I guess there were a bunch of touchscreens though not resistive. What was the type of touchscreen, the old, do you remember? Was it the BlackBerry Force?

It had a resistive touchscreen. Is that what it is, where it's like a physical button as well? It was like you had to press hard enough to connect two layers of physical. The whole screen moved in. That was terrible. That was bad. I hated that so much. It's worth mentioning the LG product did come out only a month or two before the first iPhone. It barely beat its market.

Yeah, that was a big last second thing Apple decided to do with the iPhone. It was like, we actually have to do capacitive glass touchscreen with multi-touch. Go. Now we just use the Apple Pencil, so it works out. Jeez. touch. Go. Now we just use the Apple Pencil, so it works out. First fingerprint sensor

was the Pantech GL100. I would have been very shocked had you gotten that one. What year was that even? I've never heard of Pantech. I got the way easier questions. Have you ever heard of Pantech? I got the only phone that was like, that came out

since I've been working here announced in 2004 the Pantech GL100 okay or GI I don't know you know how like

sometimes they look similar GL, GI yeah whatever that was first phone with Qi wireless charging Nokia Lumia 920 I feel like you should

have gotten that one that was the first one with Qi wireless charging apparently whoa I've reviewed that phone too yeah wow do you want the last two I feel like you should have gotten that one. That was the first one with QiWire that was charging? Apparently. Whoa. I've reviewed that phone, too. Yeah. Wow.

Do you want the last two just for fun that we had? I do. Yeah, yeah. Hit us with them. We'll work together for the last two. Yeah, yeah. So, first phone with in-display fingerprint sensor. Vivo X20.

It wasn't X21? It was... So, they made, like, a sort of a prototype-y phone that we checked out. And then it came out in the next version. So I think it was Vivo X20 or... It was the one we hit with a hammer to test if it would still work. Yes, definitely. Is it X20?

X20 plus UD technically, but yeah. Okay. That was the one. Yeah. And then first phone with triple cameras. Hmm. Oh, see, I thought this one was too easy. That's why I saved it. Triple cameras. So we got the I thought this one was too easy. That's why I saved it.

Triple cameras. So we got the dual cameras from the M8 happening. Was it a V30? Interesting. Ultra wide. LG did ultra wide and primary, but they didn't have a telephoto. They just did ultra wide. So that was dual cameras.

The V30 didn't have triple? Theoto. They just did ultra-wide. So that was dual cameras. The V30 didn't have triple? The V20 didn't. V30. Oh, maybe, yeah, maybe it was like a macro or some small, like, I don't remember what it was. I feel like I just... I bet it is LG.

I kind of think it's LG. I bet it is LG. Is it LG? Huawei P20 Pro. Oh, yeah, we took a bunch of pictures on Mac with it. I kind of think it's LG. I bet it is LG. Is it LG? Huawei P20 Pro. Oh. Oh, yeah. We took a bunch of pictures on Mac with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that.

I remember the color. I remember the color of it. It was that like crazy green, like vibrant, had some purple in it and blue. It was really nice. Yeah. That rang a lot of bells. That was season one of trivia. Season one.

Final score. Marquez 16, Andrew 14. We're going to have to get a trophy. That's a crown. That was season one of trivia. Final score. Marquez 16, Andrew 14. We're going to have to get a trophy. I feel like with this and with Match Cut, we just need to order bulk trophies for the studio and start handing them out. Just for useless things. We just need little soccer trophies

that we hand out for the Dundees. I wouldn't mind a soccer trophy. We should do it. It's not bad. Alright, well, that's been a fun first season of trivia, but the season of Waveform continues and the season of tech is only just getting started, as you probably already

could tell. So, stick with us. Thanks for listening to this week, and we'll catch you guys very soon. Peace. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. We are partnered with Vox Media, and our interaction is created by Vane Sill Bye.