Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - TikTok Outperforms YouTube, Another Google Service, and EV Delays

Episode Date: September 10, 2021

In this week's episode Marques and Andrew get back to some of the news that has been causing discussions around the studio. From a certain electric vehicle being delayed to TikTok encroaching on YouTube's crown, this is a good one filled with news and a hypothetical question question or two. Links: https://twitter.com/wvfrm https://twitter.com/mkbhd https://twitter.com/andymanganelli https://twitter.com/AdamLukas17 https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ shop.mkbhd.com https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC BMW ID Life: https://bit.ly/3nhMgD2 TikTok story: https://bit.ly/3tAKyhd Gmail redesign: https://bit.ly/3BX77zH Google Messages list: https://bit.ly/3A1kgXJ Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Marques. And I I'm Andrew and in today's episode We're gonna talk about tick tock starting to outperform YouTube another Google messaging app and First off though, we're gonna do a bunch of different EV news So we we kind of didn't do a we did a whole week without EV news last week. I'm pretty sure Yeah, so at this point now we probably by the time you've seen this just dropped the thousand mile road trip video on the main channel i guess that was a whole evm yeah but no news so that'll be that'll be all the conclusions and all that info you can watch that if you want but what's the ev news i mean the first one we kind of all saw it coming i think this was like

a week ago but roadster and cyber truck are both officially delayed officially yeah and it's funny because every tesla officially piece of news is typically just elon tweeting like tesla's accounts didn't share this like this didn't come from tesla this became this is literally elon replying to someone on twitter which is usually how these headphones arrive but we'll just go with yeah officially confirmed when you go to uh order them now is the delivery date changed there never was a delivery date there never was not even on cyber truck uh that's a good question because i remember so many people when we first talked about the f-150 saying like well cyber truck's gonna be here by the end of the year and we're like adamant adamant about it and i was

always like we'll see yeah i uh i actually had more hope for the Cybertruck because of the whole, like, the truck is built like that because it's supposed to be easier to manufacture and the body type is supposed to be being able to be pumped out for like fleets and stuff like that. But that's when you start manufacturing. So they have not started manufacturing. True, true, true.

And it is getting pretty close to the end of 2021. Yeah. We kind of saw it coming. I'm on Tesla's site right now. Cybertruck does not seem to have a delivery date year anymore. I suppose they removed it, but it's definitely not coming out this year. And I think the one thing that keeps coming up is the order of suspected releases. Cybertruck was announced after the Roadster, technically,

unveiling, but it is definitely a priority to come out before the Roadster. I think they've talked about this. The more likely useful vehicle for Tesla, Cybertruck with the 4680 batteries. They might even be more likely to refresh Model 3 and Model Y with 4680 batteries before they

do Roadster at the end. That's dessert. That's how he always that's how elon always phrases and explains it so priority on roadster is very low and always will be i'm i'm personally totally fine with that i wasn't expecting it to come out anytime soon but this is confirmation that cyber truck or roadster you're talking about about roadster roadster will be at least 2023 which to me means 2024 at the best. It's not going to be on time. Yeah, it's such a shame.

They've had some of these pre-order payments for a very long time. I mean, just the amount of money they could have made off of those, like investing them or something like that. Well, that's been their thing, is if any of these people, including myself, used the money we deposited and literally just bought tesla talk instead what that would have turned into is yeah i just and it's not just tesla doing it anymore i don't get why like like ford's doing it rivian's doing it that was canoes doing these like this is much less it's the hundred dollar like refundable ones i don't love that that's not a thing i like at all it's a very ev thing we were i don't i yeah i might not have

been in the car world long enough to notice this but i don't really see that many regular gas cars taking hundred dollar deposits four years before they're supposed to get announced you know the only thing i can think of is well not hundred dollar deposits but i'm sure some of those like top and top, top end brutal supercars are doing stuff like that. But you're right. Nothing for the average consumer is doing stuff like that, as far as I know. Maybe something, but it's not a normal thing.

But anyways, we'll move on. VW released a concept tease of their, it's called the ID Life. It looks kind of like a midsize hatchback, so not quite like a crossover. Very, very boxy, almost like the old Scions. Now, this is a concept supposed to come out in 2025. I think the biggest thing here is we're seeing a price tag of what's supposed to be around $24,000. And that's just a price tag that I think EV needs to hit and needs to hit as fast as possible. So that's the main reason I just wanted to bring this up. I agree that that's a price tag that's admirable.

I just had to look up the article to see a date. They're saying 2025. Yeah. Okay, fine. So about four years. I would love to see that way sooner. I mean, any car. It's not even just Volkswagen.

I don't care that this is Volkswagen at all. I just want to see an under $25,000 EV that has admirable range. I'm talking at least over 200. I think that's the key is these powertrains are the main cost driver of like what prices these cars. I mean, we've all talked about Tesla interiors in the past. That's not why they're expensive. It's because of the motors and the batteries.

Yeah, for sure. So what we're really talking about is when can we get a $24,000 good mass produced, high wattage, like decent sized battery in a car? I would be willing to bet Tesla will get there first. And I don't know when that will be, but it's nice to see others also committing to the same thing. I'm also looking at the picture of it and yeah the picture is kind of strange it looks it looks kind of like something i'd see at ces you know it does look very cs it's most the lights and the front thing i i said they kind of looked like e-paper almost like it just looks like lights that are just kind of glowing and not really actual lights um but again it's a concept like no part of me thinks it will look like this picture

at all yeah um i i don't know if i think tesla will be the first one to get down that far i my main reasoning behind that is they because like the cheapest one you can buy right now is 40 like 15 000 is a big difference in cars yes Yes. I mean, maybe, I think they're the most advanced out of all of them, for sure. That's why I'm betting on Tesla. Yeah, I just, they're selling so many cars

at these higher price points and everything. Are they going to now develop another one? I mean, we just saw Cybertruck get delayed. I don't even count Roadsters being delayed

as like anything I count towards their regular manufacturing because like you said, it's like their cream of the crop top line not major selling one um i don't know that i wouldn't doubt if we see something like which we'll talk about next toyota or honda or one of them maybe getting there i just hope there's one before 2025 way before 2025 yeah i think i there's no doubt in my mind they're all working on it i just think if uh if we're waiting for the first generation of each of them and we're also

seeing tesla's like fourth generation coming out soon there's a pretty good chance the ones that have been working on it the longest and who have gotten the furthest will be the first to get to this next step uh but we'll see and it would be it would it'd be really impressive if volkswagen leapfrogged tesla's entire well i think it would be train tech i'm i wouldn't be surprised if some of these companies went after that market because that's the market that's not being hit right now i mean like the model 3 is a huge milestone in evs in general because of how much cheaper it got but a 40 000 car is not an affordable car by any means. I think they all know that if they could make a $25,000 car right now, they would definitely do it because it would clearly sell a lot.

I just think they don't have the tech to be able to make them that well. So it's who's going to get the batteries, who's going to make the drivetrain efficiency, who's going to do it first. We'll see. We'll see. Also, these interior pictures are wild. I don't think I even, oh, I have them.

If you think Tesla's... Oh, yeah. Oh, dude, it reminds me of that like total bull crap concept car also these interior pictures are wild i don't think i even oh if you think oh yeah oh dude it reminds me of that like total total bullcrap concept car that bmw showed us which just like remember we sat in and they're like don't scoot across the back seat it doesn't actually have supports in the middle it's basically cardboard and like yeah this is funny no part of me thinks that this is what the interior will look like if it's's a $25,000 car, like it'll be very plain on the inside. 2025 though?

2025. Maybe. It's got a yoke for those who are listening to audio only. It has a yoke and it appears to be using your smartphone as the main and only display. So you know how Model 3 has one display in the middle and that's like your speedometer and the map and everything it looks like you don't even get that you just put

your phone there and maybe that's saving a lot of money but that's a very interesting concept it looks like if the like bdi was bdi is like this modern furniture company that we buy a lot of it looks like very like mid-century modern interior. It doesn't look like a car. Also, the gas pedal has a play button and the brake pedal has a pause button. That's hilarious. Which is so dumb. I didn't see that.

There's some touchscreen stuff. This concept is ridiculous. I mean, if I was in a video game and I played this, I'd be like, this is really unrealistic. It is, but when they say it's the future and it's a future wait what and it's a couple years out i'm just wait go to picture 18 18 i'm going to just describe this the front dash like has a giant screen that pops out this oh oh i did a demo of this okay so

volkswagen yeah volkswagen's basically banking on the fact that autonomous vehicles will be so good by the time these come out that you can just completely ignore the outside of the car and you do have a wheel there for takeover when you're manual but you can just cover the windshield in a blackout shade and put a movie up and watch it instead of looking out the windshield yeah i had way more hopes for this until and the further into the pictures i clicked the more i think this is way more hopes for this until and the further into the pictures i click the more i think this is just a i don't know i don't like it's very wishful i don't yeah i don't like seeing all the wishful parts of this like i'm just wishing for a cheap ev because i want to not have as many

pollutants in the air and like do something that's towards going green and affordable this is like i don't yeah let's see my biggest ridiculous my biggest skepticism is actually in one of the specs and when you project this far in the future it's kind of hard to get specs right in tech because tech moves fast but they're saying 57 kilowatt hour battery 250 mile range i and this is a apparently with the european wltp testing cycle i don't know how accurate this is going to be but um i'm hoping by 2025 250 miles of range is like a base i would hope that's what i that's what i mean about this because we have the mini cooper that's like 22 right 22 000 but its range is like 100 miles 100 miles so like if you're in a city that's great i want something that can do at least 200 like you said 250 should be like the absolute base for evs we're

looking at but just that like the biggest thing of that 25 000 price tag is once you get three years into that and you have used cars you're starting to look at under 20 000 and i think the used ev market's going to be huge because they should potentially last much longer yeah gas vehicles i just think that's a milestone we have to hit yeah we'll see we'll see who gets there yeah all right and then all right so next up we have toyota claiming that it's going to invest 13.6 billion dollars into car batteries over the next decade um i think this is really important toyota is the largest car manufacturer worldwide by volume um i mean it's toyota if you are driving out on the street um you're seeing a camry and a corolla probably almost every other car they're gigantic but we haven't seen them like they don't have an ev yet they have one concept car with no

date as far as i know yeah it's weird very strange to me especially because they are the people who started the whole kind of like better gas mileage movement with the Prius yeah the Prius is like one of the best fuel economy cars out there people love that thing and Toyota hasn't made a pure EV yet battery EV real quick do you know when the first prius was sold what year yeah i'm just gonna spitball guess like 2004 pretty close the first one in japan was in 1997 then worldwide they were first sold in 2000 so the prius has been around for a really really long time it has so that is crazy to me that toyota's been working on this type of car i mean it's a hybrid still has electric motors it's very different but it's still trying to make you know

kind of a greener emission 20 years and they still don't have an ev out that's crazy to me my uh one of my professors i've tweeted this before but one of my professors from college once told me you should never give a presentation with a number in it without some context for that number. So you're saying the $13.6 billion. When I hear Toyota is investing $13.6 billion in car batteries over the next decade, that sounds like a lot, but is that a lot compared to other car companies' investments?

I have a couple little... All right, so to break down the numbers a little bit, and still this is all you know planned said everything um 13.6 billion dollars for battery tech over the next decade 9 billion of that is straight into production um plans to have 10 battery production lines by 2025 and then another 70 across the world after that it says judging by these numbers it should produce around 200 gigawatt hours of batteries and then if you want to compare that to something volkswagen's plans are to produce 240

gigawatts in europe alone by 2030 and ford has said they're planning to do 240 gigawatt gigawatt hours gwh of batteries globally by 2030 as well um and then adam what did you just say you said tesla just invested 12 billion last year 12 billion in 2020 over the next two years into electric cars and batteries yeah but tesla only makes electric cars so that's interesting yeah well that's electric cars too i did i don't know if this is right and that's not just battery just car yeah I mean like I said before Toyota I just like seeing Toyota going into EVs in general I think they're a great car company I think it's another one where we've talked about how the F-150 is so important to EVs because of the loyalty behind the F-150 line and pickup trucks in general toyota is one of

those companies you just think of customer loyalty behind it and i think they would be especially globally like they're very popular in the u.s but they're even more popular overseas yeah they're everywhere yeah yeah i i you know the more competition the merrier i want to see every car manufacturer attempt to make a good EV as soon as possible. As soon as possible. That's what, so yeah, this to me is like, I'm glad I'm hearing that Toyota, but I want you to do this faster. I want you to have an EV car out here.

They have this like, it's called the BZ4X. It's like a crossover SUV because who isn't attempting to make a crossover SUV at this point? But I just want them to go faster. I like their cars a lot. In fact, I mean, we wanted to talk about it on here. I'm at the point where my car is at the end of its life. I think I need to get a new one

by the end of the month. I've been debating a lot of things. You probably would assume I'm going to get a Tesla because of how much we talk about it here, but I've decided not to already decided i've already decided i'm between a couple different cars okay i have decided as much as i want an ev for many different reasons i don't think right now is the right time to get one for me personally is that because you can't get any EV that's not a Tesla? Or is it because no EV speaks to you enough? So here's, it's a whole mix of things. I just currently moved.

It is back to where I grew up. It is very out in kind of the middle of nowhere. I love it, I absolutely love living out there. I love Tesla, I really, really like the Model Y. It would probably be at the top of my price point for a car. But my biggest concerns with it right now are the two. I don't have a single Tesla service center within an hour from where I live. I see that being a big issue.

It's one of those things where like most of the time it's probably not an issue. But when it is, that just feels like an absolute nightmare. I worry about how long it takes for teslas to be repaired um if it's something that's they do a great job with their loaner car program from what i've seen but if it's something that's your fault i'm assuming they're not covering a loaner car like if i get in an accident or anything like that that's something that worries me yeah it definitely depends on the situation but yeah i mean and that's true with a lot of things but uh so repairability is something that worries me as well um and then i think last but not least uh i mean price is obviously high i just bought a house

there's a lot of new bills that come with that we're trying to start a family there's going to be a lot of bills that come with that um and so the insurance from what i've seen is quite a bit more expensive around here as well um so just all of those things kind of adding up i have a super chart one supercharger on my commute home from work but i to me that's not even an issue i think one thing i love about evs is starting with i've said this a million times i want to leave my house every day with a full tank of gas that is like amazing to me and i think is the most underrated thing about evs possible in terms of other evs i was looking forward to the f-150 which would have really been stretching it money-wise but i am not confident

with charging to be like completely honest i'm super excited for the truck to come out this last road trip didn't help confidence in it at all i was gonna say we just did a big experiment to figure that out um yeah i think that's a big issue i i mean like there would obviously be places i could take a ford to instead but also my car is at the point where i won't be able to wait as long for an f-150 anyways and like yeah that's that's gonna be delayed i'm calling it now i'm just telling you i'm gonna say i think it won't be delayed but it doesn't help me either way yeah i would put i i think it'll come out in june this upcoming june yeah i hope i'm wrong but every single other ev has been delayed other than like variants of Model 3 and Model Y. It's been like every single one's been delayed.

So I hope I'm wrong. Maybe Ford will be first. I don't know. Was Mach-E on time? I don't remember exactly. I don't think so. But hopefully they... I think they have too much riding on it

for it to be delayed. I think it would be a huge blow to it if it were delayed. But yeah. So yeah, I'm most likely going to get, I think a RA going to get, I think a RAV4 probably, or an Outback, or a Forester. I really like something with storage,

I like something with all-wheel drive. I've been looking at a Tacoma also, but they're pretty pricey as well. I do live out in the middle of nowhere now, a truck would be really nice, but I need something with at least some storage. It's a RAV4, Outback, Forester. Yeah, it reminds me of what Doug DiMera said, he was like they're kind of all good like yeah it's hard

to go wrong i i appreciate subaru and toyota are supposed to last for a very long time i mean my impression has 180 000 miles on it right now i'm still driving i just know i'm like one day away from it breaking down on the side of the road and me not wanting to deal with i want to play like the devil's advocate and like try to convince you right now to get a Model Y. I don't know how I would do it. I love the Model Y. I absolutely love the Model Y. Is there a service, a dealership, I guess,

of Subaru and Toyota near you, I guess? Yeah, I could probably, I could ride my bike to a Subaru dealership near me if I wanted to. I have two Toyota dealerships within 10 minutes of me. There's plenty. There's plenty of dealerships everywhere. I could probably hit seven Toyota dealerships on my way to a Tesla dealership. There's so many.

It's just a tough spot right now. I think it's like, actually, one of those two just got hit by the hurricane in New Jersey also. So they're going to be down for a little bit. So that's also really tough. The service center that I picked up my car from, we just had this Hurricane Ida come through. Shout out to climate change. Once in a generation storm.

Why I want to pick an EV so bad. Our fourth one in 200 year storm. And shattered all the windows and the roof collapsed. So now they had to move all of their deliveries to a different service center and get stuff out of there, and they shut that down for at least a couple weeks. I don't know how long it takes to fix the roof, but that thing's gone.

The superchargers there still work. You can still plug in and charge, yeah. But that is one down. But yeah, no, that's like one of the things I was always thinking about when I recommend a specific EV, especially a Tesla. It's like you don't do nearly as much maintenance. Like you maybe go in every 10, 20, 30,000 miles,

however many you want to, just to get a checkup or whatever. But the car out here, the Raven Model S, I did exactly zero appointments for. It's on its original wheels and tires. I think I drove it about 30,000 miles. Never visited the service center once. But the one chance you do get in an accident

or you do have like a nick in the bumper, you just need something to go to the car and you need to go back to the Tesla service center, then that's the question of like how close is it to me what's the the loaner program like what's the service like and that's always uh that's always a question yeah i mean we just had vin vin couldn't come in for like three weeks because somebody hit him not his fault at all and his car took three weeks to fix that and it's just like i can't not have a car for three weeks that's or or then i'm spending on a rental car like that's a fix that and it's just like i can't not have a car for three weeks that's or or then i'm spending on a rental car like that's a ton of money it's just it's hard to do

all that and it's a hard thing to just like i don't know i think some people are and i like i said part of it is because of where i moved to made it much harder i would kill for a model y i'm kind of hoping that in the next five or six years, then maybe I'll just sell my car, whatever I wind up getting. I was going to say, lease a car for two, three years. I'm not leasing. Leasing is not something you can do with that much mileage for commuting to.

It's just way too much. I have to buy. I have to finance and stuff like that. So leasing a Tesla doesn't work either. Get something for two, three years, and then when the F-150 comes out. Maybe F-150 if they fix their chargings better. I hope so.

I have high hopes for the F-150. Trust me, I'm really, really rooting for Ford. I think I'm really rooting for Toyota. I would kill for a RAV4 EV if it was literally just a RAV4 with an electric motor. That would be amazing. But all right, I think I ranted enough on that. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back.

We're going to talk about Google's services and then maybe one of Google's biggest services having some competition. Be right back. Great. Great. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points.

Visit superstore.ca to get started. This is an ad from BetterHelp. This holiday season, do something for a special person in your life. Visit superstore.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. All right. All right. Back from break, we argued a little bit behind the scenes and we're doing a... We got a bet. Yeah. We got a bet. We just want to know if Ford's going to hold up their promise. So we looked up on Ford's website website they're promising f-150 lightning deliveries will start spring 2022 yeah so if i'm betting it's delayed june 21st is the last day of spring 2022 i'm betting first deliveries are after that okay betting that they meet that yeah and do we want

to do just like what is first deliveries i i don't want to count it if it's like one truck gets delivered or something like that. Do you have a metric or will it just, it's gentlemen's like. I want to be able to find a customer who just makes a video of their truck on YouTube. Okay. Like we did with Plaid when they started trickling out. Yeah. Like we'll know if they're like actually doing deliveries. Yeah.

You'll know. Okay. And we have decided that the punishment is uh we're saying a spoon it doesn't have to be like a whole spoon full but we're saying the bomb hot sauce yeah we're gonna buy the bomb hot sauce and uh loser has to put it on all of his food for the next week whoa oh no we're gonna have to eat it one time yeah one time one one teaspoon of it right right in your mouth on the podcast for sure I'll buy the bomb

and you let me know what kind of hot sauce you put your hot sauce on so I can get that for you too oh we can put it on something I'm just saying you're going to lose so you should tell me what you want it to be vanilla ice cream with extra lactose perfect

but we also wanted to talk about Google for a little bit. Of course. Now there's a variety of Google stuff to talk about. We obviously have seen a long history of Google messaging services over the years. We have. And so I saw this headline and we just added it to the Waveform Slack

just because we wanted to come back to this. But it is yet another Google messaging app. Yeah, sort of, yeah. What is is it so it's gmail calls now yeah so it's essentially like a google meet video call but you can do it straight from the gmail i'm assuming in browser they're doing like a gmail redesign right right so it's a way to to make video calls basically from gmail so you can do it straight in the app, even though I believe it's using Google Meets as like the platform for it.

So they're not like making a new platform. But in Gmail, you can make the call straight in the Gmail app. So you're not switching out of things or like in an email thread. They're trying to be like Outlook. Yeah, it's barely different from Google Hangouts already. But just for a little fun here we know

there's been a million google messaging apps i mean it's like a joke i want to see how many you can name now there are about 15 i believe 15 11 of them so it's like they have sms they have email and they have um like video conferencing they also have like a couple they just called them collaborations with some other messaging things i won't be that upset if you don't get those but i just want to see let's uh messaging inside of google slides google powerpoint uh google sheets pretty much yeah google docs chat is one of them which is like okay i but um let's do let's uh i'm gonna i have them in the document but they're highlighted black right now i'm worried if i highlight these you'll see them so let's just take this a little bit yeah i want to see how many you can get so active or or all

time ever no because how many are active actually if you could even name if they're active i can't because we have like no way of confirming that. I was just thinking of like Google Buzz and Google Plus. Okay. So I know we have Google Messenger on my phone. That's your SMS app. We have Google Hangouts also on my phone. Okay. I also have Google Duo and Google Allo. Okay.

I'm not even sure if both of those still work. I think Duo still works. Allo, not so sure. Okay. Then we have, so Google Meet is the video conferencing app kind of like zoom yep it's already five that's already you should be done but now there's this year well you're missing the most popular one which is just think about like it's what we just talked about the new phone call thing in gmail like gchat? No, it's just Gmail. Oh, Gmail.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah, it's a messaging. I know you know that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, messaging app, sure. So Gmail, that's already six. And you said Google Chat, right? Yeah, Google Chat.

So Hangouts and Google Chat and Gmail are all in the same window at the same time next to each other, which is hilarious. Yeah, Google Buzz and Google Plus were kind of, Google Plus was a social network. Google Buzz was kind of, what was Google Buzz? I don't even see Google Buzz in here from what I have. I think that was also a social network, so I won't count it. Yeah, but Google Plus is a little harder because Google Plus had certain things in it. Oh, God. Which is.

Oh, it had messaging. You could message people in Google Plus. I have three different Google Plus apps listed here that are all different messaging things. Oh, so you can. You could message people in Google+. I have three different Google+, apps listed here that are all different messaging things. Do you remember any of them? I don't know what they're called, but in your profile, you could message someone in Google+. And it wasn't Gmail.

It was inside of Google+. Google+, messaging, I guess. There's also YouTube, by the way, which used to have a messaging system. Fair, fair. Yeah, that's not listed here. So I have Google+, Huddle. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah one's called google plus hangouts which i'm assuming just kind of turned into regular hangouts or if hangouts was already hangouts was already a thing i this this verge

article i'm looking at has hangouts and google plus hangouts wow okay and then i also have google plus circles which that is just the regular like kind of like a facebook wall that was the mechanism for talking to groups of people in certain parts of your google plus network okay so like a facebook group more so yeah okay something like that yeah um wow so google docs chat good job on that one that's that was one i didn't think because we use that one we do it's over here on the side note system yeah i guess we never use the chat too much. So we said, there's something called Google Talk. Google Talk. Google Voice, they consider. Oh, yeah, I have Google Voice.

Google Voice can be SMS. You said Google Messages. I have Android Messages, but same thing. Google Wave. Oh, Wave. I don't even remember. That's also dead and old. Yeah, that was a thing they tried.

And then there's just also the original Google Chat, G pre-hangouts turn in hangouts yeah exactly that's what i used to talk to everyone on google gchat was the best when you were like at work because you had your email open but you were still talking so like it was in the corner your boss came in yeah it's like oh he's just got his email up he's definitely doing work and then there's like three messages like lighting up in the bottom. You're like, don't do that, don't do that. But yeah. Classic.

So that was fun. You did really good. There's a lot. And I feel like I've used probably half of them. And it's like every time Google builds a new thing, it's like, is this going to be dead in a year? Or should I stop? You've used half of them, but I bet in your head

they're all scrambled into one messaging app pretty much. I mean, like I said, you open the Gmail window and there's Gmail in front of you, half of them but I bet in your head they're all scrambled into one messaging pretty much yeah I mean like I said you open the gmail window and there's gmail in front of you but also you can have google voice open in the side you can have google chat and their hangouts in the bottom and then you can have google meet pop up right in front of you with an invite it's everywhere and was it aloe or duo first I think it was aloe first aloe is the is the text and duo is the videos oh I thought aloe had video as well aloe was i think the first io i went to and i remember being oh my god facetime for android right because every time they come

up with one you're thinking like this is going to be i message yeah you're like this is going to be the the universal messaging app the myth the myth of the universal messaging app you always think they're going to do it and they get halfway there and then it dies um the closest i think they ever really got to that was they they pushed hangouts for a little bit and hangouts was an app you could use to text people over the internet and make video calls and make voice calls and it was like you could use hangouts for everything on your phone but not everybody used the hangouts app on their phone people on their iphones didn't install hangouts so it was like it never really got there this was always my thing with doing that is to me like i was talking to people in gchat and like hangouts and but it was so much different than how i was

talking to people in text messages so i never liked having them in the same list of things because the gchat or hangouts was oh people were always talking in it because there were groups of like 10 15 people where my text message to me was people like specifically trying to get in contact with me or my wife or my mom or my sister or something like that and i don't know i never liked them all together i still have my separate messages app like text messages which i know a lot of people outside the u.s is like not really a big thing yes it's I've used whatsapp a lot more because I've been working with people in Europe and they all just use whatsapp and it's easy but yeah it's it's kind of just like in the US people just use iMessage

like they just use their text messaging app to talk to other people which is kind of why it's so crazy that they've made so many um but speaking of google services youtube yeah youtube's a pretty big service you kind of when you think about youtube and then the sheer numbers that youtube does yeah kind of feels unbeatable right it's the second biggest search engine in the world next to google who owns them so they're very plugged into each other billions of hours of video are watched and uploaded every month. It's just this crazy, massive, self-feeding, unbeatable video machine. Huge catalog, incredible search engine.

But there's one key thing that they're just getting beat on as of right now, which is in watch time on mobile phones, TikTok- Android phones. On on mobile phones, TikTok- Android phones. On Android mobile phones, TikTok just overtook YouTube in average watch time, which is interesting.

And can we pull up the exact details on that? Because is that like session launch time? I can kind of, is it what? Session watch time or monthly? It is monthly. So I can explain it a little better to kind of get an idea here um so it is on android phones although i bet you the between android and iphone probably is almost

exactly the same i don't think anyone on android is using one or the other more or less often i think people just in general are using youtube and how they're supposed to use it doesn't matter what phone you're on um But that does have a difference. TikTok is like 99% mobile. YouTube is like 70% mobile. So there is a little difference here. But so average watch time over one month, right now in the US, the average user on YouTube

watches approximately 22 hours of content per month. And that has been like completely steady. So this, the graphs they showed were from December 2019 to June 2021. And it started at 22 hours and it ended at 22 hours in that graph. It fluctuated a little down to 21 up to like 24, but it pretty much is at 22 tiktok december 2019 was at 16 watch hours per month and rose all the way up to 24 watch hours per month so they have just been i mean we know tiktok's going crazy so the average has risen up from 16 to 24 yeah watch hours per month so many fascinating things about that just i'm i'm such a big numbers person, and stats always are the thing that I like digging into.

So number one, how many hours of TikTok do you think you watch every month? And when I think about TikTok, it's really easy to get lost and just sit there mindlessly scrolling, and then it's been half an hour, and you just didn't do anything for half an hour. And I wonder how much that adds up. YouTube actually used to, it might still show you in the app

how many hours you've watched. And I know for a fact I watch more YouTube than TikTok. I watch more YouTube also. But the number of TikToks that I've watched per month has definitely averaged higher and higher over the last couple of months.

I mean, if you're counting individual TikToks, I watch more TikTok, single TikTok videos than YouTube videos, for sure. That's the other number I'm so curious about is like TikToks are three minutes long tops. Most of them are a couple seconds long. How many different things did you just consume versus the YouTube videos? Like YouTube videos are, I mean, the ones we make are 10, 12, 15 minutes long. I'd say an average has to be out. I mean like eight at least for the majority of YouTube videos. Yeah.

And not everybody watches the whole video from front to back, but I'm just thinking the amount of stuff is way higher on TikTok. And that's kind of by design. It's like the short attention span gets that instant gratification cycle over and over. Lots of small hits of dopamine

instead of one big one, basically. But then the last one is, if the way i just think about this stat the average watch hours have gone from 16 to 24 that means that there are a lot of people who are watching more than 24 hours of tiktok every month there is only 30 days in a month there's people probably watching 30 hours a month that's an hour of tiktoks every day that's so many tiktoks there's a lot if they're 30 seconds each that that's an insane amount of tiktoks yeah of different things that you're watching like you got to be spending so

much time in that app and this is at the end of the day the thing that i know youtube's after we always you know if you talk to other creators they're always talking about the algorithm and the mysteries behind it and the sort of opacity of knowing what youtube's trying to do on the platform but the one thing i feel like i always know is they're always trying to get people to spend more time on the site the more time you spend on youtube the more ads you watch the more you consume the more money they make so generally no matter what they're doing you can assume they want you to spend more time on youtube.com yeah and that is something that they are losing you has to look at this and think like okay they're they're tiktok's figuring it out why don't we figure it out and we have

videos that are longer and have a better chance of keeping you on that long right so we have youtube shorts now which is like they've and it's this is a real thing. Like they clearly made it as a response to TikTok and they built the carousel and they have their algorithms and you can spend time scrolling 30 second videos just like TikTok. You can do that now on YouTube. algorithm has gotten so good that people spend time in that app and not YouTube shorts and they stay there for 30 hours in a month says so much to me about how good TikTok's algorithm is and how massive that site has become. The funny part is as a creator at the end of the day, the content strategist inside me is like, that doesn't make me want to become a tiktoker like i see a lot of people in on twitter just being like oh so marquez you're gonna pivot to tiktok now huh you're gonna have to chase those views on tiktok it's like no uh most people who are blowing up on tiktok which is happening to a lot of people end up migrating to youtube anyway the money making because the

other spots all the other systems are in place on YouTube. It's the most stable. It's the most monetizable. It's the most valuable. You don't see TikTokers making a sub stack or anything? Yeah, or if they do, they went to YouTube first. And you also hardly see it. I mean, you see it the other way around, like people on YouTube going, oh, wow, okay, TikTok's blowing up.

We should make more short form stuff. We should make YouTube shorts. We should make TikToks. And you go over there, but you don't see them leaving YouTube behind to jump to tiktok it's to get more publicity it's to bring people back to youtube yeah so that's what i see in all these numbers it's just like this trend is crazy i mean i think like you said the algorithm on tiktok is insanely good it's just like it is so impressive to me watching things that i don't think i've ever like

thought about like changed my uh like habits on using tiktok to make it think that i would like that more and then it's just sending me stuff that i find more and more entertaining yeah every time it is like at the point where i almost feel like tiktok is like an ai company and they just have like 100 the absolute best no algorithm for stuff like that's what it is crazy i was talking to someone recently about uh tiktok and they're like marquez do you do you watch tiktoks at all i was like yeah you know i watch tiktoks and they're like i tried and then it was like one day of like teenagers dancing and i couldn't take it anymore and i left i was like if you get past the one day of like

the most generic TikToks of all time, it will learn you so fast. Like you get, you pass the one day, you make a new account and it's like, it learns from everything, everything you skip, everything you pause to watch the whole thing, everything you watch twice, everything you like, comment on, engage with, everything you do is instructing that algorithm on how can we make you stay here longer and that learns you so fast it's gonna it's gonna pull things from all over fluctuates like so often and it's it's like it's following it i don't even know if i like the things anymore tiktok's telling me to start liking these things like it's just at a point where yeah it constantly keeps you in i think my main tiktok use is i lay down in bed and i want to

watch like 10 minutes and i watch more and more all the time and it's just like sometimes it's really hard to put down yeah yeah i i usually want to like aggressively put down the phone once i watch a good one that's what i know i always say one more good one yeah one more good one gotta end on a good one uh-huh yeah it's hard hard. There's a lot of good ones out there. Now, another interesting number I'm seeing in this article is a Verge article. We'll link in the show notes. YouTube has 2 billion monthly active users. Oh, yeah.

YouTube's still bigger. Still bigger. By a lot. But that's why it's so interesting. TikTok has 700 million compared to that 2 billion. But those 700 million are spending a higher average amount of time. Yeah. billion but those 700 million are spending a higher average amount of time yeah so the total number of hours will be less for tiktok but the average per user is now higher yeah so as tiktok continues to grow it will probably approach youtube in that total number i don't know when

it'll approach youtube i don't have the context i wish i had like the chronological number of totals but yeah average per user is pretty impressive now they'll they'll be focusing on like you know instagram it's got to be looking at this like we made reels why are people not spending 30 hours a month scrolling through reels yeah instagram is definitely a closer competitor i still you were just talking about youtube shorts and i don't think i've ever heard a single person or seen a single person looking through youtube shorts i only ever see them when they're just in my subscription box as someone i follow posted one i still hate that that yeah it's like part of the same ecosystem together it's weirdly mixed in yeah now i've scrolled through i've scrolled through instagram reels mindlessly for

a little bit they're not as uh they seem like they're kind of siloed. Like it seems like I mostly get car reels, tech reels, and that's kind of it, I guess. I get all rock climbing ones. And it seems like they're very specific. Where like TikTok's more willing to like plug you into more things for fun. Cause it's only 12 seconds. Like if you don't like it,

the next one will be another rock climbing one. Like we'll just try other stuff on you. And when it finds more of those things, then it's able 12 seconds like if you don't like it the next one will be another rock climbing one like we'll just try other stuff on you and when it finds more of those things then it's able to feed you more and more because hey we've got a whole new library of all these like truck tiktoks that you might like it's just it's just out there i need now spotify has this and i think it's pretty good but it when you make a playlist in spotify and you reach the end of the playlist it starts just playing songs it thinks would be good in the playlist sometimes it's really good sometimes it's terrible if it had that's like one place where I'd love to see TikTok's algorithm of like oh it saw me I don't know if Spotify knows if I like skip it if I don't want to hear it again

because it suggested the same stuff before but like yeah I would love to see that incorporated into Spotify because there are times where I'm just like i really like these two songs i want more songs like it and i just want it to auto create a playlist around that and then know if i skip the song i don't want to listen to it again it's interesting i it's there's way less touch points basically i'd be curious to see how well the tiktok algorithm could translate to other mediums yeah in spotify all you can really do is skip this song or you can like it like most people are listening to it in a car and you're doing like steering wheel controls so there's no like button on my steering wheel for yeah maybe you scrub back

and listen to the song again or something like that but other than that there's not a whole lot of engagement it's not like you're following the artist once you hear a song yeah it's not like you're you know you're watching a whole it it's tough to translate the TikTok way into Spotify. I imagine it would look something like, here's a country song, here's an opera song, here's a random other rap song, and you just kind of get plugged into a bunch of stuff and it might not immediately relate,

but once it finds what you like, then it gives you a bunch. It kind of does the Discover weeklies, which sometimes are pretty solid, but most of that is just mashing together songs it already knows I listen to. Like you said, TikTok does this great thing of like, here's something you like,

I'm gonna try and throw a curve ball out here and see if they like it. And then if they do, I'm gonna throw more. Discovering music, I think, is kind of harder these days because no one listens to the radio anymore. You're not forced to listen to music because there's nothing else to listen to. So like Spotify having that would be really cool I think. Yeah. TikTok is just an algorithm company. It's crazy. It's great. And people feed the algorithm. The other weird funny thing is I never search on TikTok. YouTube

is still the place to go when you're searching for a thing. And that always made me think about the difference. I kind of want to talk to someone at YouTube or TikTok about this. Of like, you know how when you hear about YouTube was responsible for like radicalizing this person because it fed them all these things. It's like on YouTube

it can kind of get there where like you can have your homepage be filled up with a bunch of things on one topic but it's not like they've tried to avoid that but at the end of the day you have to search for stuff to watch and you have to choose what to click on

in a selection that's what YouTube is and on TikTok it's just feeding you things one after the other and it's such a different experience like those torture devices where they hold your eyes open and you're just like looking it's just feeding you things one after the other. And that's such a different experience. Like those torture devices where they hold your eyes open and you're just like looking at the screen. That's what's happening.

And that's what just made me think like as a creator, I'm still creating for the person choosing what to watch, which involves some search sometimes. It involves like seeing a title and a thumbnail and clicking it among a stream of other videos about the same thing. Like all of that is one part of content strategy that we think a lot about.

And TikTok doesn't matter at all. You just have to hook them in the first two seconds of the video itself. And that's all that matters. And that's, it's fascinating to me. We should make TikToks. It's a really good point you bring up though, that is like kind of the danger of all of this

is just like getting stuck into an echo chamber super easily. And like, while that's all good for you, you start missing the other side of the danger of all of this is just getting stuck into an echo chamber super easily. And while that's all good for you, you start missing the other side of the aisle. And whether you agree with it or not, always having that context is really important. So you do get the chance to try and see outside there. But if you're just mindlessly scrolling TikTok while you're staying up way too late

and then you're exhausted the next morning, it's probably not too big of a concern. I just think it would be so much easier to blame TikTok for swaying my opinion about something than YouTube because I just got fed a bunch of things versus I went to YouTube and searched and then started clicking stuff. Cool.

I'm going to start blaming TikTok on everything. Yeah, TikTok is responsible. They're also dangerously close to the government, but hey, we'll take a quick break. We'll take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll talk about, you got a hot take, right? Is that what we're doing? Kind of, sort of, yeah. Okay, we'll do that.

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one is left behind. Donate at camh.ca slash donate now from December 23rd to the 31st, and your gift will be tripled for three times the impact. All right, we're back. I kind of, we have a segment where we do hot takes and I kind of developed a hot take I haven't actually really explored with myself that much because I wanted to explore in front of you. But it all stems from a hypothetical question that will never happen. So it kind of makes no sense to be a hot take. But I wanted to ask you guys the question

and then we'll get into mine. All right, so we've seen a bunch of smartphone companies stop making smartphones like HTC and LG, but if right now you could snap your fingers and a company had stopped making smartphones completely, who would you eliminate? And you don't get to say, like, I don't want to eliminate any companies.

We all agree that as many companies is the best possible thing to have, just for competition-wise. Sure. That's why this is hypothetical. This is never going to happen but like is there a reason why you would kill off any company or or just maybe personal reason that that would be the real spicy take if i had to snap my fingers and get rid of a smartphone company yeah it's uh it would probably it would clearly be one that i don't use. That's one path to take, for sure.

Yeah, like I use right now, I'm daily driving the S21 Ultra. So it would not be Samsung. You've had that for a long time, just saying. Yeah, it's starting to get some scratches. Is it safe to say, off topic here, the S series is generally the phone you hold on to the longest and part of that is because of its release date being so far ahead of no this no just so it's typically the one plus for the last probably the last three years it's been

uh one plus's higher end pro model uh this one happened to be yes earlier in the year and has great cameras and a better screen frankly than the one plus and i've just enjoyed the overall experience better than previous samsung i'm not used to seeing you with a phone for that long this is you've had this for a very long time yeah so uh i went back from the flip to that um but i gotta get rid of a whole company though so i can't get rid of one phone so it's not apple it's not samsung it's not one plus i i keep motorola around i like what they're doing with the budget stuff I would keep I kind of want to bring back HTC to be honest I want to bring back HTC really bad honestly um but then there's there's

the whole world of like I don't use an Alcatel phone I don't have any reason to get rid of an Alcatel this is not a hot take I guess I had yeah it would be like I'd snap my fingers and you'd be like Alcatel is now gone and I'd be like okay greatcatel is now gone. And I'd be like, okay, great. I don't really mind. Like I didn't have any strong opinions on any other phones. Um, if I had to do a hot take one, um, what if you had to do one that's popular in the U S one of the most popular ones had to get rid of one. It's probably at a carrier store somewhere in the U S. Okay. Cause I don't want you to just snap away one that literally affects your life at all.

Let's make it a hot take is what you're saying. Let's make it a hot take. Or closer to a warm take. Wait, can I ask a question? Yeah. Does it have to be the whole company is gone?

No, no, no. Just the smartphone part of it. Just the smartphone division. Stop making phones. You know what's funny? Because I'm thinking like snap your fingers Apple stops making phones, right?

That just means like Samsung is now the number one. Like Xiaomi starts feasting over in Asia because there's no Apple and they're just going to expand and take over the world because they can dominate every market now. And Apple has to find a way to dominate without making phones. And that would just be so fascinating to watch

because so many of their services and their accessories and their ecosystem is based around the market penetration that the iPhone has done for them over the past decade. And it would be wild to see them not make a new iPhone and try to keep that up. Yeah, so I mean, to interrupt here because it just feels perfect.

My take would be Apple. I would want to, I think the biggest reason we're not seeing a like quote unquote iMessage for Android is because none of them will ever be able to include iMessage. And then if we take iMessage, like Apple is a company that holds so much stock in the whole smartphone ecosystem

because of stuff like iMessage that a lot of companies just aren't even really trying because they know they won't be able to get that part of it. So maybe that could stem a chance that the rest of the companies all working on Android come together and can actually make something that makes a little more sense towards that because otherwise iMessage will never be part of it. Right. It's like a spiteful move. Like iMessage will now be gone i mean you still you could still use iMessage on the mac and on the yeah like i you could probably there's a million things you could argue i mean like i i obviously don't want apple gone but i think that could be interesting

i don't think they innovate quite as much anymore i think phones they perfect things and they're clearly their phones are as much as i don't use when i understand understand. I think iPhones are generally better than the phones that I use. I just personally don't enjoy them as much. They would probably shrink the iPad mini down to be the size of the S21 Ultra. And you could use iMessage on that. And there's a cellular one, Anger Set. Oh, man.

They'd definitely get around that. That'd be funny. Oh, that's a... I just assume, I guess, in this world, when that company, they just never thought of doing smartphones, even though it's still in their tech like they're not doing smartphones at all i thought it would be like today you no more phones no more phones and i mean like but they're not gonna they don't get to then make something that's kind of a smartphone it takes over they don't get to compete in the atmosphere at all yeah i see so yeah and then if you think

about it like that then maybe iPhones, Macs would start incorporating Android-based things to create still into an ecosystem because how good is the Apple ecosystem without an iPhone? Android would be a monopoly. It would. In that world. Yeah, there's some Android fans that would love that world. Which is interesting.

Which I wouldn't like. There's gonna be a good and bad side to all of these answers for sure. Yeah, yeah, it's just weird thinking about an open source monopoly. Which is interesting. Which I wouldn't like. There's going to be a good and bad side to all of these answers. Yeah, yeah. It's just weird thinking about an open source monopoly. That's funny. Yeah, right. Weird.

Did you have a hot take or what was the second half of this? Do you want to eliminate one? Or do you want to eliminate a smartphone? Eliminate a smartphone? Yeah. I kind of had a similar approach as Andrew in that I would get rid of Samsung because they dominate every price point pretty much. So getting rid of all of those phones

will open up a lot of niches in the smartphone ecosystem for more competition. And could let other places flourish in like a different price point. Because like I think Motorola would flourish completely if Samsung didn't have also budget ones because they're great at budget phones. LG, HTC, maybe they'd still be around

if there were no Samsung. A52s. We also wouldn't have anything folding. Also true. We wouldn't have anything good. Adam wants that, doesn't he? He doesn't think it works. It wouldn't have anything good folding.

I'll say that. We would have the FlexPi and we'd have the remnants of the LG one. The Velvet. That flippy case thing. What about the Surface? That would be the best.

Actually, that would be the biggest US company that you could nix the smartphone part of it. Microsoft, you can stop now. They make smartphones? Yeah, they make smartphone. They make smartphone. No, Windows Phone had a little thing for a while,

but that's no longer out there. That would be pretty interesting. I don't really have any hot takes. I was pretty content with the week. We just got the Apple announcement, so by the time you see this, it'll be in a couple days. We're expecting iPhone 13, maybe an iPhone 13 Pro, an iPhone 13 Mini, and an iPhone 13 Max.

But also there's now Apple Watch rumors floating around. Have you seen the rumors of the squared up design? Yeah, we've talked about a potential design like that. I wanted to ask Adam about this because the Apple Watch has had the same shape now. This is Series 7, right? It's had the same shape now since the beginning, basically. It's gotten a little bit bigger, a little bit less bezel.

But now there's some rumors of a pretty squared up Apple Watch design. And at first, I was like, it looks like I prefer the squared up design generally in most tech. But then when I see it on a watch it looks more like a computer on the wrist and I think that would actually do worse for it really but I wonder how it edges yeah it feels more squared up to me yeah it would be more squared up okay and I think squaring it up that much would make it feel less like a smooth piece of your life it's more of a computer on the wrist thing. But how does our resident watch

kind of sort of feel about a squared up Apple Watch? I hate it. Okay. I thought you said you liked it on Twitter. No, I like the way it looks. Okay. But I hate square watches in general. Okay, okay.

That's exactly how I feel. I don't like it as a watch, but I think it looks better than that Apple Watch now. Yeah, exactly. If that makes sense. Like if I were to own an Apple Watch. Because I don't think that looks like a watch. so it looks like a cooler version of what that is but to me i still think a watch feels circular and like that's the apple watch terrible way to think why why

should they all be circle here's a hot take oh yeah i mean it's it's already fact that the apple watch is the most popular watch on earth yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not denying that. So other watches don't look like a watch, right? The Apple Watch is the most popular watch. All those other circle watches are just the other watches, right? Oh, that's a hot take. Is that a hot take?

That's pretty hot. I think that's pretty hot. It's like one of those stats that sounds really good and then you realize the Earth isn't flat. It's like, you know, most people't flat it's like you know most people especially when you think of like young people who are buying their first watch or i'm one of those people my first watch was an apple watch um i i see this and this is how watches look to me and i think a lot of people are in that boat now a lot of older people than me are not in that boat we talked

to mr wonderful on the podcast he is not in that boat he thinks an apple watch is a joke yeah so it you know i think that's what makes it a hot take. But yeah, the most popular watch on earth is this shape right now. The most popular watch model is that shape, right? Or is that like, is that comparing to like if Casio, like Casio has a ton of different typewatch models, right? So Casio might still make more watches.

Yes, there are more round watches than Apple watches. But the most popular individual watch is an Apple watch. Yes. So, you know, that's just a... I think it goes more back to what the first one was. The original watch design was circular. Right, the first watches. So when you tell time in something that's not circular,

is that still a watch? Now it's just a clock. That's something else. Yeah, it's a squircle now. Yeah. It's weird. What is the definition of a watch? Well, I guess if you just have a clock on your wrist.

On your wrist, yeah. It's something that tells time on your wrist. I mean, I don't know if I agree with you on the original take on that because i feel like the original uh like cell phones were big and chunky then they went to flip then they went to what we have now now they're going back to flip i think at some point we switched from cell phone to smartphone and i think that reset the paradigm oh so then this goes back into adam hating flips again yeah basically it all comes back yeah no that's like if you know i don't know maybe it's just a generational thing literally no no i think it will be i think um i mean i agree

with you i think the younger generation like probably is very used to a square watch yeah i just i see a circular watch maybe this is gonna date me but i see a circular watch and i think oh it looks kind of old school even if it's a brand new watch yeah and if it looks circular and analog that's one of the old school here's my thing also i only wear watches at this point as like um like when i'm dressing up trying to dress nicer generally with a suit or something like that to me it's like a an accessory that I don't care about the time but like a circular watch just looks nice with like a suit or something like that I generally dislike wearing watches I wonder how how much you could dress up a square apple watch I think there's nice leather bands and everything

like that that's at this point that's the only thing you can do is like get a nice band a good like watch face that's a little less a little like yeah i don't know if i'm a suit with like your current heart rate i'm so triggered by this conversation i have about 13 colors on my watch right now looking like a like a crayola watch right now i just can't picture like james bond with an apple watch yeah exactly exactly yeah no he'd have like one of the simpler he'd have a one of the simpler, he'd have a watch face. Let me find a James Bond watch face. I don't have any nice ones right now.

It's a Nike one. It's just Comic Sans. Imagine James Bond with this watch face on. It wouldn't pull it off. No, I'm with you. I feel like I understand both sides of this. I think I get it, yeah, yeah. This watch thing.

Yeah, well, that's a debate for another day. We'll see what comes out, but we're expecting possibly a new watch in this event alongside the new iPhones. I think that's kind of all we're expecting. It's like the classic September event. Isn't there usually like a November event also? There's probably, yeah, one more coming where we'll maybe see a Mac.

MacBooks. Maybe we'll see a laptop. Maybe one of the things I've been curious about is when they're going to do... Well, the car thing is... That's my when they're going to do well the car thing that's my next car I'm waiting for the Apple car the Apple car is definitely delayed no is the

Apple Silicon Mac the tower okay so we have Mac Pros here at the studio they're very useful and every time we get a new one we keep thinking should we have just waited like when's the next when's the Apple Silicon Mac going to come out and is that going to be something we wish we waited for?

We don't really know. All I really know is Apple said two-year transition and we're a year and a half in. And I think- When did the Mac Pro first, the Mac Pro got announced in the summer but released in the winter, right? Right, and then we got uh the last intel

iMac refresh which was actually after they announced a two-year transition um but I think it was WWDC okay that we got the announcement I might be wrong about the date but essentially it was like yes this is going to take about two, and we're going to start with these laptops. And one MacBook, and one MacBook Pro, Mac Mini. iMac came out, and I think the end of that two-year window is closing in. Yeah. And the one thing they haven't done, let's say they haven't done an iMac Pro, they haven't done the refreshed higher-end MacBook Pros yet, and they haven't done the Mac Tower.

I would like to see an iMac Pro new design and see what they do with it. Yeah, we basically haven't seen the higher-end stuff. Black bezel. Yeah, I'd be very curious. Black bezel would be nice. Black bezel would be nice. I think that's probably about it.

I think we're good. That's all we got. We've talked our way into hot takes about watches, and we've obviously talked our face off about EVs. It's the second half of the podcast. H3H3 always says that if you're in the second half of the podcast, you don't know what's coming at that point. Yeah.

So shout out to all the cars driving by and all the noises. Hopefully you guys enjoyed that. We appreciate you tuning in. Definitely subscribe to the Waveform YouTube channel if you haven't already. That's where these come out in video form. But that's about it. Until the next form, but that's about it until the next one. Catch you guys later. Peace.

Waveform was produced by Adam Molina. We are partnered with Vox Media and our intro outro music was created by Vain Sil.