Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - USB-C iPhone Confirmed and YouTube's Redesign!

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

This week, Marques and Andrew talk about Apple being forced by the EU to put USB-C on its products. Then they recap some of the topics that Marques missed out on last week including the new iPads and the Nothing earbuds before getting into the new YouTube redesign. Finally, Marques talks about some EV Rolls-Royce news that caught his eye before we wrap up the trivia questions. It's a classic Waveform episode! Vox survey: www.vox.com/podsurvey Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Shop products mentioned: Apple iPad 9th Gen (w/ Home Button) at https://geni.us/tFbRe3 Apple iPad 10th Gen at https://geni.us/3yh7qpE iPad Air at https://geni.us/VqzM iPad Pro (M2 2022) at https://geni.us/f0jp Nothing Ear(1) at https://geni.us/bJuJ Nothing Ear(stick) at https://geni.us/c9hw8j News links: WSJ piece about USB-C and iPhone: https://on.wsj.com/3TI4cUB EV Rolls-Royce news: https://cnn.it/3NhG3BZ Twitters: Waveform: https://twitter.com/wvfrm Marques: https://twitter.com/mkbhd Andrew: https://twitter.com/andymanganelli Adam: https://twitter.com/adamlukas17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wvfrmpodcast/ Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Why? You can skip it. Oh, what? Just like that? Just like that. How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats? Skippable. Midnight snacks?

Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices? Uh, nope. You're on your own there. Could've skipped it. Should've skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. All right, welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.

And I'm Andrew. And in today's episode, we have new iPads, release of nothing headphones. YouTube made a whole bunch of changes and i just want to go over all of them and to wrap it up marquez you really want to talk about an ev rolls royce so we have that it's not just about the rolls royce but it's about like the car that it represents i'll explain when we so you're buying one no no no no not that crazy all right but first we got to talk about the the usbc iphone confirmation i guess is what we could say yeah i want to open this up by when i first saw

the news article i see it in my head i'm thinking of writing the podcast for this week and i just skip it because i'm like we should talk about this on the podcast no because if i bring it up marquez is going to say it's not going to happen. I've heard this a million times. It's not even worth talking about. And I thought, he's right. And then I saw it all over Twitter, and it seems a little more. Yeah, this is different because this time it came from an active Apple executive who says, yeah, we're going to have to comply.

So just to fill in what the story is. So obviously the iPhone has been lightning for years and years. yeah we're gonna have to comply like so just to fill in what the story is so the obvious obviously the iphone has been lightning for years and years and we've always thought about what if there was a usbc iphone what if it was better than lightning but it's never happened and it's been increasingly more and more likely that they'll go like portless and just avoid usbc altogether but lately there has been some legislation drumming up in the eu that would require standardization of all phones to use usb type c and of course the iphone is sold in europe so that would require standardization of all phones to use USB Type-C. And of course, the iPhone is sold in Europe.

So that would mean that they need to sell a USB-C iPhone in Europe. And then the dominoes start falling. You're like, well, I guess you just make a USB-C iPhone now. That's just been what's burbling up. And like we hear that they'll standardize by a certain year. And we hear that this is coming up soon. And we've never heard anything from apple about it because why would they ever confirm anything like that happening to them but uh we both have a confirmation that this rule is going into place and we now have joanna stern on stage asking to apple executives about the ruling and getting a response, which included the words, we'll comply.

Yeah, that's why I wanted to put confirm in quotation marks. There's still like this little bit of hesitancy, but I think we decided it's only like two minutes of their response. Yeah, let's play it. So let's play it and we'll pause it a couple of times and say a few thoughts we have on it. I have thoughts for sure. The EU has approved legislation to create a common charger.

In fact, they said in a press release yesterday, in 2024, a USB-C port will become mandatory for a whole range of electronic devices such as mobile phones, tablets, and headphones. I think that includes you guys. Is Apple moving to USB-C? Well, maybe I can step back a little bit you may just stop right there if that's the like if that's already the start and we know it's apple you know this is going to be the most pr response of course possible also is there an airplane playing in that because like we're near an airport and and I thought that was playing here, but I think they might also be another place that has airports. Can't stop the show. Can't stop the show.

Just got to keep it rolling. Also, but worth keeping in mind, we're talking about the iPhone because that's the interesting one, but also Apple makes a lightning mouse, the Magic Mouse. They make a lightning headphone, which would be all AirPods cases and the AirPods Max, and they make the first gen ipad which is lightning they sell a bunch of other lightning magic keyboard is it keyboard lightning

trackpad is lightning so all of that is looped in i don't know exactly how the law is written yet but it's it's interesting joanna loops that stuff in but let's hear their answer for the iphone you probably heard me say for years that i I don't mind governments telling us what they want to accomplish. But usually we've got some pretty smart engineers to figure out the best ways to accomplish them technically. And an example of that that I love to give is for years and years, mobile phones had to satisfy a hearing aid compatibility spec, very prescriptively described by regulation that said, here's what you have to do to be compatible with hearing aids. The problem is it didn't work, but all of us had to do it. I don't know what that means. And so we came up with a new way of doing hearing aids. Let me tell you about hearing aids.

Hearing aids. I see where it's coming from. That actually worked. So what we were accomplishing is what the government wanted, was to have hearing impaired people be able to use phones. We did it in a way that worked better. And, you know, we've been in an argument

over this one for well over 10 years. And over 10 years ago, the push from the EU, look, they're well-meaning. I get the fact that they want to accomplish some good things. What's to do micro USB? Okay. And standardize as a micro USB.

If we have standardized micro USB, that chart doesn't exist. Right? Neither of those happen. And so we have been in this little bit of a disagreement. But part of what, of course, they wanted to accomplish is why should people have all these different power adapters? So we got to what we think was a better place, which is power adapters that had detachable cables, all of them USB-A or USB-C, and largely moving USB-C. But you choose the cable that was appropriate for your device, whether that's one of ours or somebody else's.

And what that allowed you to do is have over a billion people, not a small number of people that have that connector on the left, right, to be able to use what they have already and not have to be disrupted by that and cause a bunch of e-waste as well. I mean, because what are you going to do with these cables over time? They're no longer useful. Again, billions of them, right, because everybody has more than one cable. And so we preferred that path.

Governments get to do what they're going to do, and obviously we'll have to comply. We have no choice, as we do around the world, to comply to local laws. But we think the approach would have been better environmentally and better for our customers to not have a government be that prescriptive. Okay. Where to start? I feel like it starts off slow, and then all of a sudden he's like, boom, boom, boom. And you're like, hold on a minute. My hot take is I agree with everything he said until the very

end which is but better for our customers i also disagree with better for our environment i agree i agree actually with everything he's saying about the way that it's being prescribed except lightning kind of sucks now so it's like yes moving to usbc is the right thing and it's what we wanted and of course it's going to be better for everyone because usbc is great uh but the way they're doing it which is basically the way he described like the government wanted to standardize micro usb a long time ago and that would have been great in the time where everything else is micro usb but then we wouldn't have gotten any innovation to get better which is how we got usb type c so when we went from apple had like 30 pin and then they moved to lightning they'd standardized

uh micro usb back in the day we never would have gotten lightning and we never would have gotten usb c right so you have the i like the idea of what he's saying which is the government should have more of like an end result that is ideal which is less e-waste and better experience for customers and then let the engineers and the smart people who work for the companies decide how to get to that result and satisfy some check boxes rather than the government going here's the piece of how to get to that result and satisfy some check boxes, rather than the government going, here's the piece of tech you have to use. That's the actual problem that we have

with this weird ruling. The end result is going to be getting a USB-C iPhone, which is a good end result, but the way we're getting there sets the precedent for like, well, what if something better comes along? We just standardized and mandated usb type c i get weird i guess like oh man you guys are both throwing a million things out and we're gonna uh so like i can't there's we don't know what the official law is in terms

of like we're standardizing usbc when are we allowed to upgrade do we know like a x x amount of years that this is because like i can't imagine it's going to be some sort of law where it's like usbc forever and in terms of like saying oh well we we could have tried to mandate micro usb but we never would have taken the next steps forward like micro usb took a step forward 30 pin took a step forward they both did take steps forward into to new better cables and in the sense i just didn't love what he was saying of like well we would have been stuck with micro usb well you were 30 pin and then you went to lightning like you still made the change you still made a bunch of people have to change their their cables and then i still

have an issue with how he says that of like, well, why are we going to make all these people change their cables when Apple itself doesn't even use the same cables across their landscape? We just got an iPad that has the dumbest dongle I've ever seen in my life. And Apple loves selling dongles. Like this almost feels like, oh, hey, we're going to go to USBC and enjoy our $15 dongle thatgle that you know we have to because the government made us do it i'm surprised they're not like hopping on this to to increase their dongle well okay here's the other thing about lightning is it makes apple a lot of money

which is the made for iphone program my my fi made for iphone m i f i made for iphone you have to get it certified apple gets a little bit of a cut every time you sell a lightning certified accessory a little bit of that goes to apple it's not a zero amount of money it's a real no it's a ton of money um and they give up a little bit of that control over how things interface with the iphone by being required to switch to a different controller i'm sure apple would love to go give us a set of requirements to hit, and we will make our next generation connector hit that, but it won't necessarily be USB Type-C. So if you mandate, so I pulled up the thing, which is like, okay, USB Type-C must be a common charger for all phones and electronic devices.

In an effort to reduce e-waste and inconvenience with incompatible chargers, under the new rules, consumers will no longer need a different charging device and cable every time they purchase a new device and can use one single charger for all of their small and medium-sized portable electronic devices including laptops i mean so that would be fine if you just gave us that rule and said now all of your devices must have the same charger, period. Okay, they could all be USB-C or they could all be something new that we're working on. And if others have other accessories, they can't be micro USB, they can't be some of them lightning, some of them USB-C, whatever. They should all be the same so you could use one charger for them all.

And that's a great goal. I love that. I love having one charger for everything. But to decide that it's USB-C now means that they'll be able to decide what it is in the future. And just say whenever you move on, like it's 2024 for mobile phones, tablets, e-readers, earbuds, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld video game consoles, and portable speakers. And then 40 months total for laptops. then 40 months total for laptops. I understand the sentiment that you're saying in that like X amount of government control and deciding this could potentially stunt technological growth,

but it's hard to argue it for Apple when they're using two different types of chargers, which is like what you said, but like in terms of e-waste, they are producing e-waste because of having two different types of chargers where you can't universally even use the same charger within the apple ecosystem and then the iphone and iphone accessories

typically all charge by via lightning yeah so like airpods so you use your iphone lightning charger to charge the iphone and to charge airpods and to charge whatever other made for iPhone stuff that you have. And the fact that Apple also makes other things that charge with USB type C then makes it muddy. Cause I think the fact that they have other types, like I would argue the majority of people, if they have an iPhone also have something that charges via USB-C everything else. So yeah, everything else that they own, that's not an iPhone or iPhone accessoryhone accessory and then like laptop ipad just regular school laptop that's not apple i mean bluetooth speaker like there are a million other things that they could have that usbc and i think and i don't know like i know nothing about politics or government governing or anything like

that but this seems like an easier thing to implement when you can prove that the company that has to make the biggest change already is using this type of connector that you're forcing them to use like first in line to do like usbc for laptops and stuff so they like they it makes a lot of sense i think i also don't just love how they're talking about environmental aspects when i think a lot of the stuff think i also don't just love how they're talking about environmental aspects when i think a lot of the stuff that they do feels fairly anti-environment in some senses including right now the dongle that you have to have to charge a gen 1 apple pencil yes on an ipad that now comes in a new box that doesn't even come in the box with the ipad yeah it's just harder to take it at face value yeah exactly so i i agree

with uh with the the path that he took to explaining why he doesn't like this the judgment but hey we're gonna get a usbc iphone now it sounds like well okay and then the last thing we have to talk about is he did not say 100 we are getting usbc iphone he said we will comply uh so there are some people out there who think that might not okay so there's several pretty sure it means usbc there's several ways of complying this is why i think i might want to make a video explaining this one is they could make all of the 2024 iphones light usbc or they could make just the iPhones sold in Europe USB type C technically and then all the rest would be lightning that would be weird I don't see them doing that I don't either they could and it's also airpods and all these other things or they could not sell any of

their lightning accessories in Europe I don't think they would do that either I don't think they would do that either they think that they would only be able to sell the usbc things in europe i think the phone would still have to go usbc though because it comes with the charger and that they just wouldn't sell the phone in europe not sell the phone not sell the iphone okay that's not yeah i was gonna say that's probably not happening um and so yeah i think the most likely thing is their their next um the 2024 iphone will be usbc for everyone do you think port so some people are thinking a portless iphone would can be considered compliant this is

interesting i'm not sure if i agree with that or not so right now you can get a usbc magsafe charger right so if you have a usbc brick usbc to the MagSafe puck charges on the back of the phone, so you don't need to charge via that port. And we did talk about this a while ago, which is like Apple does seem to be aiming to get rid of those outside intrusions, including the port. So what if they just go middle finger to both of you, no ports for you. And we just get rid of the port entirely. And is that technically complying? I guess so, technically. But can they really go? MagSafe is not that good.

Will it be that good by 2024? It's one of those things that I bring up because I saw people saying, and then I say it out loud and I'm like, I don't think that's it. I don't think it's gonna be that good by 2024. So yeah, we'll see. This is all, it's all very interesting,

but we brought up that iPad and I think we should talk about the ipad yeah you missed last week and we david and i just very quickly went over like what they got announced that we mostly talked about again how stupid that dongle was how gen 1 ipad kind of makes no sense and how i believe what is it the last intel ipad air is basically the exact same thing as uh apple's the a series ipad air yes sorry the a series ipad air is basically the same as this new baseline ipad except you actually get gen 2 pencil support yeah and a laminated display yeah there's some there's some things that are like very confusing about this iPad. I was just talking on another podcast about this, but this feels like the most Tim Cook iPad ever. This is,

they are so good at making ladders of products where you have the baseline version. And then if at any point you go, you know, you look a little bit to the side and you see a slightly shinier one, you're like, well, what if I spend a little bit more getting that slightly nicer one? then you go oh it's only 64 gigs for that one so i guess

i should get the upgraded storage one and then that's suddenly that's more expensive and then you're like oh that's the same price as the baseline i hate this this happens with the ipad and it's like they have this ladder built for you to go as high as you can possibly go 329 for the baseline ipad it's been that price for a long time and it's staying that price, annoyingly. Old iPad, but you know what? It's still just fine. It's a tablet, right? Then you go, all right, well, this new 10th gen iPad is nicer. It's newer. It's USB type C. I kind of want a nicer iPad. Oh, but it's only 64 gigs. So $450 is too high, but because it's only 64 gigs, I'm looking at the upgrade, which jumps to 256, which is 599.

So now it's 599. That's the same price as the base iPad Air. So in your brain, you at least think a little bit like, oh, for that much money, I could just get an iPad Air. But guess what? The 599 iPad Air, 64 gigs. This makes me so sad. So now you jump up on the ladder again.

You go from 64 600 bucks to like 700 bucks and then you're like oh 700 bucks i'm that i'm that close to the ipad pro like i might as well look and you just keep going and then you realize you can't even get final cut you get a m2 macbook pro extreme and then it's all and then you're spending 20 grand yeah that's how it goes they walk you right up to the top of the ladder right up to the top yeah they're that that's what basically i see is like the the price of this ipad slots right in to be a perfect rung on the ladder in between the ipad air or the baseline ipad which is what you probably should get and then the whole like

confusion of the dongle and the 250 keyboard accessory is weird to me i don't understand that there's a new two piece keyboard with a function row yes we did talk about that quite a bit because like why the new accessories for m2 ipads are not going to get the function when that makes way more sense to put a function row on it yep but we don't get that so it's just for just for this ipad you get that new two-piece magic keyboard case with a kickstand which is nice and the little functioner on the keyboard uh and yeah it's 250 bucks so if you get that and the ipad that right there if you don't even upgrade storage is 700 dollars that's great 700 dollars like that's nuts you can get a lot of computer for 700 bucks so you got to really want to be the guy that's going to make your ipad a computer

well that person should just get the nicer ipad yeah for sure anyway you can see how it builds up it all yeah i think all of it the bottom line is the product is fine but it's like weird in its price bracket and weird in its execution listen i i understand that you know production's more expensive they were adding nicer things to the ipad in general to make it to take a step up from the baseline ipad but i think most people can agree and it's easy for us to say over apple but it would have just been nice if the baseline ipad stayed at 329 and just got a new look it would be nice if this ipad was 329 yeah yeah this ipad was 329 no one would care about the gen 1 apple support no one would care about the dongle no one care about all the other stuff much more it just would have been like cool it got a facelift it matches everything

else now but to knock the price up that much to get basically just the uh quote unquote all screen display that everyone loves um is yeah weird it is funny though this is still like uh an ipad a lot of schools might buy and i think school i don't think so with the base yours wait schools like the home button yeah so then they would stick with the base one. The base base, yeah. I think, why would schools get this one? They can get the baseline one. No idea.

USB-C? I can't wait to see the sales on this. I'll sadly be wrong no matter what, and I'll be very upset about it. Plenty of them. We should talk about one more thing before the break, which is the new Nothing Ear Stick. Nothing has made, so far now, their original noise-canceling headphones. should talk about one more thing before the break which is the new nothing ear stick there nothing

has made so far now their original noise canceling headphones then they made the nothing phone one now they're coming back and they've made a 99 pair of plastic earbuds that come in a little stick like a little lipstick case it's much bigger than a lipstick thing yeah but that's the inspiration anyway yes and um there, you know what? There is a list of the features it has. I'd rather talk about the features that it doesn't have because it is exactly what we thought it would be. It's basically if the ear ones are the AirPods Pro, these are the AirPods.

No silicone tip, no active noise canceling. And my favorite part, which I told you this morning and i would like you to repeat your reaction to it was last week or two weeks ago they bumped up the price of the ear ones to 149 yeah claiming production increases well these now slot in right at 999 which was exactly where the ear ones were two weeks ago i called it on the podcast last week i think this is hilarious that it actually happened it's too too obvious but you have idiots you have to make that price increase before you announce this is coming out and then do it you can't tease it months ago then bump it up two weeks before and then slot it in exactly where it was it seems insane it's

insane i mean i get that every company's got their like public facing reason for doing something and then the like corporate reason behind the scenes i'm sure their public facing reason for the price increase was oh you know these are more expensive to produce and in lower volume we'd really like quality to be high so we're gonna bump them up from 99 to 149 but behind the scenes they were like but we're also gonna make a 99 pair of plastic earbuds that slide in right at this exact spot yeah nice one nothing yeah not my favorite move of the tech world i think yeah ever uh before we go to trivia i'm also gonna throw this out here because i know marquez won't talk about it taylor swift broke

the spotify record for most streams of an album in the first 24 hours the underdog absolutely dominating they said she couldn't do it they said she couldn't yeah just just 185 million streams in 24 hours and that's only on spotify that's insane that's the record uh i think the record was 182 by bad baby or 170 something by bad baby video that got like no no it's all an album streamed in 24 in the first 24 hours it was released oh the whole album had 185 million streams that's pretty sick because i know there's been some crazy like oh like uh like k-pop singles i'll see on youtube trending they'll have like 100 million views in like two days like what happened still not it's still not 185 but i'm just like youtube's gotta have some crazy crazy records there's some crazy numbers i would love a just like a sheet of how many times something got streamed in 24 hours

in the first 24 hours youtube video in a day what do you think the youtube record is it was very recent wasn't it um oh it's k-pop it's all k-pop iq it's a lot of you ever heard of iq ui i have not but i love them and i love all our listeners that love them and i stand these are crazy numbers this is crazy youtube numbers most list this is a wiki of the most viewed online videos in the first 24 hours and yeah uh this is a oh no it's a film i think it's still on youtube okay i'm gonna go with the music videos okay number one bts number two bts uh dynamite and Number one, BTS. Number two, BTS. Dynamite and Butter. 101 million views in a day and 108 million views in a day.

Wow. Oh my God. In a day. 2018 YouTube Rewind was correct. This is what we want. Then there's three in a row. Blackpink, Blackpink, and Blackpink. 80 million, 86 million, and 90 million in a row blackpink blackpink and blackpink 80 million 86 million and 90 million

in a day all these are youtube then bts lisa bts and bts and then taylor swift at number 10 with me do you know that song i don't know of course i know i don't know that had 65 million views in a day that is still a shocking that's because that that video was released before the album came out also oh this is a single from the album's because that video was released before the album came out also. Oh, this is a single from the album? Or a teaser or something? That's like four albums ago, despite it only being a couple years ago. That was from Lover, which was like right before COVID.

Yeah, record for most of you music videos. Brandon Urie, Panic! at the Disco. Great song. No. Cut that if I'm wrong. All the top videos are either K-pop or T-pop. I was right. I was right. Cut that if it'm wrong pop videos are either k-pop or tape i was right i was right cut that if it's not funny there's some trailers though holy smokes holy smokes these these can't be yeah these are all in the first 24 hours all i wanted to do is say that taylor swift is the best and i've sent this podcast into absolute ruin i'm sorry i just the spider-man no way home

trailer trailer 355 million views in the first 24 hours that's a that's this what wikipedia says the number of worldwide views accumulated in the video's first 24 hours spider-man no way home wait let's sort by rank is it the youtube link none of these have 350 million views is this it might not be youtube then it's got to be on other places combining them is it just like combined yeah i'm throwing this whole list out wikipedia this is insane i don't believe it ignore everything i've said for the past 12 minutes about youtube and wikipedia just end it with saying congratulations to taylor congrats to taylor let's go to trivia just hit your head i know she was waiting for my

congratulations did she go to the met gala do you think you you were there i don't remember if she was there she must have not been she wasn't anyway there. There were rumors. What's up, guys? Welcome back to the pod, Marques. Yeah. All right. So first question. This might be a little bit of an easier one, you know, for what we do here. But, you know, there's a little twist on it to make you guys think. So we all use PDFs, right?

You use PDFs. I use PDFs. Adam uses PDFs. Professionally. I fax things. Leave. No fax is allowed. But PDF is an acronym.

So what does PDF stand for? And I've got, it's a multiple choice one. So A, portable document format. B, personal directory file. C, portable directory format. Or D,able document file. Oh no. Okay, I think I know.

I think I've got one, yeah. I appreciate the multiple choice on that. I very much appreciate the multiple choice. All right. Let's take a break. We'll be right back. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month.

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of their site this week. And I agree with every single one of them i have a very similar sentiment as you and that is the reason i wanted to talk about this because i think you and i and most listeners out here when we hear redesign we get very worried because redesigns usually mean i need to relearn this entire website that i use every day. I'm going to absolutely hate it. I am still an old Reddit user. Baffling decisions on many redesigns of the past. Yeah.

No, this one was good. This one's good. So it's the site and it's the mobile app too. Correct. So I think there's a lot of good stuff here. And just to walk through some of the highlights, like there's a lot more, it's a pretty consistent new UI, but there's a lot more rounded corners. The subscribe button is no longer red.

It's graduated over the years. It used to be yellow. Fun fact, I don't know how old people are watching this. Oh, yeah, it was yellow. Yeah, a few years ago, every YouTuber said smash that yellow button. And there's many, many old YouTube videos of people saying to smash that yellow button. Interesting. Then it turned red and everyone panicked and had to explain.

Now you smash a red button. Now it's just going to be the opposite black or white based on if you're using dark mode or light mode. But it's contrasty and it's this nice rounded button. And I actually think it looks better. It's more obvious because it was just like red text before. And now it's like a real button. I think it's better. But, you know, it's just a real button okay i think it's better but you know it's just

a sub button that's a vanity thing you still have the join underneath the subscribe button so once you subscribe then the join button pops up it's smart but aesthetically it's just cleaned up it's nicer there's a little bit of a reflection now in dark mode of like the light from the video spilling out in ambient mode it's good i think like my overall the vibe it feels like is first of all let's make this feel more like an app which is what every single website in the world is doing right now let's make a lot of people are comparing it to like material you almost like google's making it more material you like a little bit i think the easiest way to describe it is before there were a lot of breaks in the page kind of like the sidebar was a slightly

different color so you had a hard line down the sidebar was a slightly different color. So you had a hard line down the side, you had a hard line on the top for the header. Everything now is just kind of blended into the same background. It's very functional. It's very like button actionable button based like that's everything you have there. And everything just feels more condensed together in the mobile and the desktop version. You said rounded corners, everything looks a little more like a button that you might find on a phone.

You have less separation in the description and the subscribe button and the channel banner and everything like that. And I agree, I really like it. And the reason I like it is because while they made all these changes that we're listing, everything is still super familiar. I'm not scattered all over looking for new sidebars,

new recommended pages, new hamburger menus here and there. Everything is basically in the exact same spot. It just looks better. Yes, it's like a fresh coat of paint instead of like reorganizing things. Instead of tearing down a wall and opening up the kitchen. Exactly. So yeah, I think this is a good one. I think that means their next update will be absolute chaos,

but this is a good one. This is a good one youtube we appreciate that two new features also for mobile that i really liked um pinch to zoom while playing a video i think that could be really helpful and like you can move around the frame yep so you can pinch which will fill the frame and then you can pinch again and keep keep moving in to the video. Cool. I like that a lot. And then there's like a new scrubbing feature. So previously, if you were to scrub the circle on the timeline, you would just kind of see what frame it was at. Now it expands.

I've kind of been comparing it to, do you know if you're doing like trim on your, like an Instagram video or something, and it brings up the whole timeline and kind of, or if you're working on slow-mo video on like your Android phone or something like that. So now you've got a whole timeline under, so you can see many more frames and where you're kind of scrubbing to. Yeah. More precise. Both great new features. Yeah. It's a win. I kind of, this, this, remember when they first introduced the retention graph in the, in the scrub thing,

I think that turned out to be pretty cool because a lot of videos now I scroll to, sometimes there's like a comment with a timestamp, which is one thing, but the comments are so far down. Usually I just start scrolling and I see a spike in retention and I just like fast forward and just watch that part. And if that part hooks me, which it usually does, cause that's why there's a spike, then I'll watch more of the video. It turned out to be pretty cool. Do you think there will be a day when that graph bites some creators in the butt? Because in some scenarios, you can see when people are skipping integrated mid-roll or end-roll or something like that. I have seen that.

I have seen really, really big spikes. And I was like, whoa, this video is mostly flat with one big spike and i moved to the spike and it's somebody ending an ad exactly so it's nothing to do with before the video it means they enjoyed the beginning of the video and they just wanted to pop past that 30 seconds so that's gonna happen sometimes that's fine i i think the trade-off is that we get a lot of really cool like you know dream does this face reveal and there's this like arc of like people watching more and more and then the spike and then there's other later parts where he says certain things and there's spikes and it's just kind of interesting to like see a little bit of other people's behavior

on a video great user experience seems minimal on affecting creators so overall good feature do you remember back in the day this is old youtube okay they would show uh the comment section below the video and then they would also show other people logged in watching the same video at the same time no they used to do that that and it was really interesting because when a video would first launch on like a big creator's channel you would see just like tons of people watching the video at the same time. And then there was like everyone like engaging in the comments,

like, oh my God, a lot of people are here right now. They'll probably see my comment. And then like comments would go crazy in the first few minutes. And then slowly, obviously the video gets older and less and less people watch. And then if it was an old enough video, you might be one of only two or three people

watching it at the same time. And then you could click on that person's profile you could message them you could leave them a comment because you were seeing other people watching the video at the same time low-key i kind of want something like that back so i don't remember that but as you're explaining it it sounds like they tried to reintroduce that with previews or um premieres and it's cool because everyone's watching at once but it was just something about knowing and being able to reach out to someone else who's watching the same video right away well when your user base has exponentially grown in the last 15 years that

gets harder and harder unless you're on smaller channels but especially if it gets 100 million views in a day exactly yeah um there's not a lot of bts stans out there who would be able to talk to a small group of people but i i do think premiere could have been that i think they just kind of messed up the premiere rollout and premiere is something i still would like to see corrected because i think it's an interesting idea and we've had some cool videos that could have done great but watching the smartphone camera awards at 720p is terrible yeah premieres i think you can do 1080 now possibly that's still but it's still a live stream and people don't watch live streams the highest quality but i think that's also my yeah i agree premieres should be

better but yeah we need to find like more ways to make it interesting and make it enticing mr mobile he does a lot of premieres he does yeah and i'm curious i want to ask him pick up his brain about that probably get him on the podcast and interrogate him about it. You did mention, though, only 1080p and 4K. Let's quickly, something we didn't get to talk about because we've been very busy, but I know is near and dear to your heart, is a few weeks ago we saw YouTube potentially testing 4K playback

being set only for premiere users yeah paywalled so since then they've reverted that change and that is not happening but i think it's worth a conversation because most importantly here is there's plenty of times we've seen features tested and reverted and then they come back later anyways um and i think this could potentially be that or is this something that we could see at the next milestone i know ak is so far away and it's weird to think about but just as an example like will we see okay 4k is your standard for freemium there you go linus swayed me sweet oh okay so i have linus's thing at the end here just just to like tell people to go watch great video by the way i think there's a lot of really useful information he knows a lot more of

it because he runs floatplane and knows the very very very very very very very lower end scale of google because google skills and the challenges of running a stream streaming service exactly yes i was not expecting you to say you were swayed though so you kind of messed up my video swayed me no okay so 4k look i i initially had the same reaction as a lot of other people which is like you were just rule number one on the internet if you offer something for free moving that free thing behind a paywall no one will think that's a good idea yeah that's like the easiest way for people to dislike something you clearly can offer it for free you are now why would you move that to being paid rule number one right so they broke rule number one so everyone gets mad but the fact is most people don't watch

in 4k and on top of that which is really well articulated by linus the the bandwidth required to stream in higher resolutions and higher bit rates which is massive files is is dramatically higher than ever not only that but it is growing at an exponential value of storage base but in terms of cost per storage and cost per hosting fees they've basically flatlined and we're not seeing decreased spending on that so they're just getting thousands and thousands of more and more hours of 4k videos from people's iphones being uploaded and not really getting any benefits from it while their user base grows and grows it's just like they're eating all this cost right so i get that and it's always been like well hey you you, you have YouTube and Google money. Like you can, you can eat that. Yeah. But, uh, the real, the real point is almost nobody watches in 4k.

That's the real learning here. Uh, right now, how many of you are watching this on your phone? Boom, right away. That's half of you. You're not watching in 4k. Unless you have a Sony Xperia 5 Mark II, you're not watching in 4k. Even if you have that phone, you probably didn't go into the selector and pick 2160p because your internet probably isn't great enough right now

to be watching this whole podcast, this whole long clip in 4K. Someone's on a street corner with millimeter waves somewhere watching this in 4K with a Sony Xperia. Please leave that comment. I know there's a non-zero amount of people watching on that phone in 4K right now, and it's hilarious to me.

I love it. But that's half of the people, right? Then I look at my YouTube analytics, and it's like, you can see device type. You can see the smart TVs and the computers and laptops. And Google, on mkbhd.com, we have Google Analytics, and you can see the resolutions of people's screens. And it's a single-digit percent of people

who even have a 4K monitor. 1080 is very popular 1440 is very popular 4k is rare so if you have a 4k monitor and a good enough internet connection to watch 4k and you go into the selector and select 4k that is a tiny fraction of people who actually deserve to be mad at this decision because something that they were previously getting for free is now a paid is is would have been a paid feature but that's such a small percentage of people that it made total sense to do it and to actually make some money from it because people will subscribe to premium and you give them a really good reason to but i think my point is and linus's point is that's almost nobody so i'm i'm swayed i believe

him i messed up all of my notes why were you gonna argue and like no i wasn't gonna argue i was gonna be like we're the good guys everyone go tell linus he sucks and that we're the best and we fight for the people um i wonder almost though like i guess offering it for premium which i will say without without this being paid well or anything premium is super worth five dollars a month right i think it's it's is it more now it's nine nine yeah i think sorry i i just think youtube premium even at nine dollars a month and i know everyone can't afford that but like you said not a lot of people watching 4k i think it's super worth it yeah i'm just looking at my youtube premium benefits because it likes to summarize how long you've had premium which you've gotten

out of it 2 590 ad free videos sorry 2 590 hours of ad free videos much different i've watched a lot of youtube with youtube premium yeah youtube premium is currently 11.99 is it 11.99 but still worth it even just opening the YouTube homepage and seeing the word premium about the play button. There it is. A little red P for premium. It's like the sound of a little jar of caviar opening. I mean...

This is the good stuff. Honestly, my favorite feature of it is just that there are not full podcasts, but kind of like talking... Like Phil Deil defranco i'll listen to him like a podcast in the car and you can turn your screen off background it's so nice great feature i also have no idea who puts mid-rolls in their videos because i haven't seen a mid-roll in years because i have youtube premium that by itself man there's some channels that stack mid-rolls this is not

this is not one of them but hey I haven't seen them in a while. We will be unless you buy YouTube for me. I'm not kidding. I recall we were at a team retreat and there's someone put a YouTube video on the TV and I was watching the video with them and then the ad popped up and everybody turned and looked at me like,

is this what YouTubers are doing now? I was like, yeah, mid-rolls are a thing. But no, yeah, I haven't seen a mid-roll in years. I do have to say, I don't know if this would be way too hard because I know nothing, yeah, mid-rolls are a thing. But no, yeah, that's, I haven't seen a mid-roll in two years. I do have to say, I don't know if this would be way too hard because I know nothing about coding. Would it make sense if YouTube winds up getting, you know, let's say they don't want to do 4K behind premium, but they obviously need to work on their bandwidth and hosting and all that.

They would still have to host the 4K files that people are uploading, which is always going to be an issue. But in terms of streaming it, is there any way to essentially gate resolution based on the resolution that can actually be played on the screen that it's being sent to because like i can select 4k on this computer right now and it's not 4k yeah there's a bunch of features sorry a bunch of factors that go into youtube deciding resolution and then they did that stupid thing where they hid the quality selector behind like three clicks. Yes, one of our best clips on this podcast.

Yeah, I hate that decision. But yeah, the fact is YouTube wants to take that choice into their own hands and pick what's right for you, which is they look at your internet connection, the bit rate of like how good of a video you're watching and also whether or not your screen even has 4K pixels. You can pull up a 4K video, but it won't automatically do it

if you don't select it all the time. So it looks at you and decides for you what your resolution should be. I think the best option, and I don't know if it's possible, would be what I just said, where it's like, you can't select 4K because you have a 1080p screen

or you have a 1440p screen. But you could get more bit rate and a higher sharpness video out of a 4K stream, even if you don't have a 4K screen, which is like something you might want that. the premium payers will want that that's a small number of people but that sounds yeah well i think what they're doing is they're relying more so on those people than the people with actual 4k viewing displays yeah and they know they know if they can get money out of those people, that's subsidizing everyone else and that's the best way to make the money.

So I would be fascinated if this did go through to see what kind of people are paying for premium, new subscribers to premium that don't have 4K display that they're playing it on. That would be super interesting. That would be interesting. I also just know that if I'm listening to music and it's just like the album art,

I'll still click the resolution all the way up because it sounds way better. It's a higher bit rate. So I think people interested in that kind of thing, which is like you and me, people listening to tech stuff, like we know this stuff and we care, but small fraction. Yeah.

Oh man, I really wasn't expecting you to say that. So very interesting. To everybody that thinks Markel is a shill and that he's completely turning his back on you, please watch main channel videos at 480p and send us screenshots just to prove to him. Don't do that. It's like a petition letter

that he shouldn't agree with stuff like this and we want 4K for the rest of our lives. But to swap back all the way, do you think 8K becomes standard 10-15 years does youtube put the kibosh on it right there because now we're just exponentially getting even higher and that's like 4k is it youtube youtube was really early supporting 8k which is admirable um every time we go to ces you know how we see like a couple more 8k tvs it seems like it's still so fringe that i don't see it being mainstream anytime soon the thing about that is like 4k 4k not that long ago wasn't like totally mainstream so like i the

curve of like you saw one 4k tv one year and then you saw 12 4k tvs the next year and then you saw 100 4k tvs the next year 20 30 years from now yeah is 8k everywhere i don't think it is 8k um like over 50 of people's i have to use my own judgment when i go and look at those 8k tvs i can tell the difference between ak and 4k but i think most people on most of the screens in their lives will never be able to tell the difference between 4k and 8k because that's your phone your tablet your desktop maybe and then your tv all this is just reminding us of our friend grover who went from a 1080p screen to an 8k screen and is loving life right i mean he mean, he would also be loving life at 4K, but 8K is pretty serious from 720.

Yeah, that's huge. Yeah, no, we'll keep an eye on 8K as well. But I think that leaves us with one more trivia question. All right. We should just put a mid-roll right there. That's a great idea. This trivia is now only supported with YouTube premium. Premium users won't get that joke because they just saw us say it, but it happened.

All right. So question number two. Prior to founding Red Cameras, I really hope I'm saying this last name right, Jim Jannard started what company? Easy. I think I know. All right. Yeah. Let's go. Amazing. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash waveform. netsuite.com slash waveform. All right, welcome back. I had something written here, and then Marques told me he really wanted to talk about this EV Rolls-Royce. So I said, sure, I will just write EV Rolls-Royce and you do the rest of the talking. So I have no idea what we're about to talk about besides an EV Rolls-R said sure i will just write ev rolls royce and you do the rest of the talking so i have no idea what we're about to talk about besides an ev it's just a

hilarious car okay i i just it's not even about the rolls royce as much as it's like with all these new evs that we're getting to test i have a lot of ideas about and i don't work for a car company but about like what is the ideal first car in your lineup to electrify there's so many factors for that choice we just saw nissan they've had a leaf for a while but the aria is the the new ev like daily that they made and it's a crossover okay then we got cadillac their first thing the silly stick is like a three hundred thousand dollar random thing they made as like a concept car and then the lyric the lyric is a another crossover and in that video i said wouldn't an electric escalade be like the thing wouldn't that be everything you love about an escalade but better listen like the escalade is

like one of the better best known cadillacs but it is like impossible to argue against making a crossover right now especially in the u.s there is the argument so popular the argument is your first tv is probably also your most expensive and so you probably have to i think you have to start with a premium product you have to start with premium positioning which is why cadillac can get away with it nissan was like here's a fifty thousand dollar nissan is that cool hyundai was like here's a fifty five thousand dollar hyundai is that cool but at least you're like starting with a premium thing and i'm like yo cadillac escalate that's the that's the electric thing because what do you want you want it to be big you want it to be powerful you want it to be quiet you want it to be smooth cadillac

i'll agree with you on a hundred percent it's got to be high tech escalate it's got to be the escalate so that's and it's expensive already the escalate is 80 grand you know an electric one will be heavier and more expensive and it'll still be premium but it'll be the ideal escalate and then the trucks make a lot of sense so like rivian didn't have anything before but ford what should you electrify first oh yeah clearly the truck like i don't want an electric ford focus yet or like the taurus or Explorer. They'll get to those. America loves those. But the F-150 made a lot of sense.

Big, powerful. That made a lot of sense. I don't know if I would argue it's, like, ultra-premium, though. They priced it really, really well for what it is. They did. I'm just picking apart your argument. No, they did. They did.

I mean, it is the more expensive F-150 relative to the gas F-150. Not even by that much, but they also do have the like $98,000 before dealer prices. That's true. Yeah. So this Rolls-Royce comes along and it just made me laugh because it's such a beefy car already. And I just read the specs and I was like, this is hilarious. This is the perfect first electric car. Rolls-Royce, it's expensive anyway.

Whoop-dee-doo. perfect first electric car rolls royce it's expensive anyway whoop-dee-doo yeah um the headline from cnn business is rolls royce's first electric car has two doors and is longer than a cadillac escalade hell yeah it is it's 6 600 pounds it has 260 miles of range and it is uh oh and it includes more than 1500 pounds of sound deadening insulation to ensure that the rolls royce is quiet this is going to be the quietest rolls royce ever this is what i thought of here is like these luxury cars like rolls royce and bentley are already like it's all about cabin experience and before they were eliminating so much road noise and engine noise now they don't have to eliminate engine noise like it's already going to be quieter this is going to feel like an anacode chamber inside it was amazing you're gonna hear your

heart it was quiet in that car before when i had a v12 now they get to be just as fast with no engine and just throw batteries in there it's gonna be heavy anyway it's amazing i think this is so that's why i brought it up i was and by the, it'll do 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds, which is kind of nuts for a $6,000 refrigerator on wheels, but it'll do it. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Okay. Sorry. This is the first time I'm looking at this because I didn't want to get anything spoiled.

Why is there like a solar system in the car? Oh, this is a Rolls Royce thing. You know about the star. This is this is outside of electric stuff. No, this is just Rolls Royce. I mean, like in their EV cars. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, a Rolls-Royce thing. You don't know about the star system? This is outside of electric stuff? No, this is just Rolls-Royce. Oh, you mean like in their non-EV cars? Oh, yeah. Oh, no, I did not know that.

Yeah, Rolls-Royces have the backwards doors, and they have the stars in the ceiling. I didn't even notice the doors backwards. Well, that's, you know, every car you've seen has those. No, it's got the suicide doors, and it's got the stars in the roof, which is just their signature luxury look. And on the doors, too. Yeah, it's all over the car car i haven't seen it in the doors but then again i've never

been in a rolls i like how they're basically like oh we could have an all glass roof and you could see the stars or nah light pollution you can't see the stars anyways let's close the roof and give you your own sir that's their thing man i just remember seeing this is such a throwback but when hasan whiteside which is an nba player was doing lots of snapchats him and dj khaled were huge on snapchat just want to throw that out there and he would always do snaps in his car of like him going to his pond to feed his fish and i always saw the stars behind him and i was like what car is that that has like stars behind him oh really and then that's how i learned that that's kind of a status symbol is like you take a video or a photo in your car and you've got the stars behind you.

It's like, oh, yeah, that's a Rolls Royce. That's pretty sick. So that's the thing. I don't know. I'm just saying I see this and I'm like, yes, please make an electric one. Please make an electric one. It'll only have 260 miles of range. Who cares?

Who cares? Yeah, your driver has to be the one who has to worry about charging it. So who cares? Yeah, you're a passenger. Yeah, if you're getting an EV Rolls Royce, if you're going over 260 miles, you're probably taking a private jet instead. You're doing it wrong. Yeah, that's the person who has like an electric jet on the way. Anyway, that's all I had to say.

Rolls-Royce making a big, big splash. I just think like when we keep an eye on this first generation of electric cars, the thought is always like what would be the ideal like gm started with the hummer what a weird choice that is a very weird but if you think about it enough it makes perfect sense it's expensive it's large it's it's like a heavy thing already they picked the one where it was like yeah this thing is gonna have freakish acceleration it's just a freak this truck is a freak have freakish acceleration. It's just a freak. This truck is a freak. And that's all we care about. So it'll be electric.

It'll be even more freakish. And then, yeah, we get the Sierra truck and we'll get more stuff from GM, the Lyric, of course, Cadillac. But, yeah, we'll keep an eye on the first gen of EVs and what they decide to electrify as they make their way through the whole lineup. side to electrify as they make their way through the whole lineup i hope you're wrong and i hope more car companies realize they already have legacy car money and give us cheaper options it's just expensive to make an electric car i don't disagree with you i'm just hoping someone will be the good guy and it's already not subaru so i'm already sad it takes a lot of development and a lot of optimization to be that good guy like tesla might end up getting to the finish line

of a $25,000 EV first just because they have so much experience in mass production of batteries. But that's like, you know, the more I've talked to electric car companies, the more I've heard them all be on the same page that the battery is the most expensive part of the car. And so you need

to get good battery production and cheap batteries and that's how you get a cheap electric car yeah so if we keep asking for lots of range then we're just asking for expensive cars you're the problem i am the problem anyway that's uh that's we'll end with that i am the problem and now we go into the trivia the trivia answers from our questions today. I'm grabbing my whiteboard. What's up? We need a producer cam. I'm volunteering it. Don't put us on camera.

Wouldn't that be great? Let us know in the comments if you guys think that would be a good idea. Because us, right now, what we have is us looking to the side. That's the camera. Producer camera, for sure. No one wants to see our mugs. We all do. But who's Alice?

Yeah. Side of my face. You guys are the mysterious voices that need to be. Yeah, exactly. Shown. Oh, my gosh. I love the enthusiasm, guys. I can see the comments already.

All right. It was PDF, right? Yeah yeah you want to do that one first yeah all right so pdfs what do they stand for uh i'll read off the multiple choice one more time we got a portable document format b personal directory file c Personal directory file C. Portable directory file D. Portable document file I'm worried I wrote one that's a mix of different ones at this point. I've got it. Ready? I turned it around around so you better be ready portable document file that is also what i wrote and i think that's right it's not what you wrote you wrote sorry you wrote one that's not i wrote

portable document format and marquez is right i remembered when you said pdf that it was something document format and i couldn't remember and then you said a and i was like that's the one poop that's the one there we go there we go yeah now we know marquez is the bigger pdf fan hell yeah i love me a pdf um all right question number two prior to founding red cameras j Jim Jannard started what company? That was fast, Andrew. Oh, yeah, I know this one. Okay. I think we both have it.

Ready? You guys are both right. He started Oakley Sunglasses. Do you know why it's called Oakley? Because it's... Oh, I do know this. Yeah, why it's called it? Because his dog is named Oakley.

Yes, and do you know why he started making optics? Because he dropped out of college to ride his motorcycle around the country, started selling motorcycle parts under a business he named after his dog, and expanded that into biker sunglasses. How the hell do you know this? I am the lord of trivia. The trivia voice knows all. It was medical school, too, because both of his parents were doctors.

Do you know what school it was? No. It was USC. Well, I don't care. Do you know what classes he went to? Look at me. I also dropped out of USC. Incredible.

I did drop out of USC. See? It all ties together. It makes sense why you know these things. You're one dog and a pair of sunglasses away from being a billionaire. You could have started Red Camera. That close. You could could have started red cameras yeah he could have started the hydrogen uh amazing well i guess now i have one more point than you you're winning now but i'm ahead of david that's what david gets for going to beautiful yosemite this week bet you wish you stayed here david yeah they probably would have gotten those

right he's definitely like in the comments like screaming about how he knew also all of these things and that's totally fine but your whiteboard's blank my friend either way proof that's been it for this week on waveform thanks for thanks for listening thanks for watching let us know in the comments where we should put the producer cam catch you guys it should probably be facing them no but you know where in the room like pointed towards them but should it be like right in front of them should it be like further away should it be like over your shoulder should it be over there over your shoulder to see what you see it should just be strapped to my head strapped i'm looking at them all the time strapped to his head i'm also no i guess we've shown what it looks like i was gonna say i wonder

if people know the layout of the room. Permanent drone hovering over the table. We have to stop every 20 minutes to recharge the battery. For an hour, yes. Okay, all right. Waveform is produced

by Ellis Roven and Adam Molina. We are partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro to our music is created by Vane Sill. I kind of messed that one up, but we'll just keep it. Send it.

Do I get a point for trivia? Nope. send it do I get a point for trivia nope Thank you.