Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - What Caused the Largest IT Outage Ever?

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about the Tesla Roadster finally (maybe) possibly being ready to begin shipping in 2025. Then they discuss the CrowdStrike IT disaster before switching to Samsung devices at the Olympics. After that, they go over some rumors that Apple might actually make screens with folding displays in the near future before wrapping it up with a new keyboard that will help you cheat. It's a fun one, enjoy! Links:  Techcrunch uber eats article: https://tcrn.ch/46t1km0 Autofocus Sapphire Air: https://bit.ly/46nvHtY Dave's Garage youtube: https://bit.ly/3YfKFQN Imogen Grant video: https://bit.ly/3ym9VKn Lewis Clareburt TikTok: https://bit.ly/3yma8gD Verge Apple Foldable iPhone: https://bit.ly/3zUOmRQ MacRumors Folding Macbook: https://bit.ly/4fjAOzm Majin Bu renders: https://bit.ly/3y2KRZ3 Verge Folding Display Rumors: https://bit.ly/3YeTYAo Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from Klaviyo. You're building a business. Klaviyo helps you grow it. Klaviyo's AI-powered marketing platform puts all your customer data, plus email, SMS, and analytics in one place. With Klaviyo, tinned fish phenom Fishwife delivers real-time, personalized experiences that keeps their customers hooked. They've grown 70 times revenue in just four years with Klaviyo. Now that's scale. Visit klaviyo.com to learn how brands like Fishwife build smarter

digital relationships with Klaviyo. Adam, you didn't even say the best part of this gift card. On Wednesday, some people posted about the gift card said they went to redeem the offer and got an error message saying the voucher has been canceled crowdshark did not immediately respond to a request for comment the gift that never gave the gift that only takes away. What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. And I'm David.

And this week, we've got a whole bunch. I mean, you probably are aware of the whole CrowdStrike, Blue Screen of death, global IT apocalypse, Y2K situation that happened. We're going to talk about that a little bit. But then some other stuff. We've got Tesla Roadster maybe finishing production. We've got Apple folding phone rumors and a gaming keyboard that's basically cheating is what the doc says. I don't know what that is.

I'll try to explain that later. Yeah. So yeah, we can just jump right in. But first, welcome to the fediverse marquez why am i saying that i'm the last person should say yeah are you on the fediverse no see but you are i am andrew's next and all i took significant bullying yeah you're bullied by basically everyone else in this room yeah for a while yeah i hit the button i mean all that really means is i went in my Threads account in the settings,

and then I checked the box that says, like, federate my account. So now it shows up on every server, and people from all sorts of servers, Mastodon, all 12 of them are interacting heavily with my Threads account. The social web is important. When I get a notification now from the Threads app, they are separated into Threads notifications and then Fediverse notifications. So it'll say, David said this reply, Andrew said this reply,

and three Fediverse users liked your post. And I can't reply to anything from the Fediverse from the Threads app. Eventually. But it's there. It sounds like they got to clean up notifications on that. liked your post yeah and i can't reply to anything from the fediverse from the threads app eventually but it's there it sounds like they got to clean up notifications on that which is probably based is based on which app you're using but they're also moving fairly slowly and just like building out fediverse integration into threads but it's supposed to theoretically maybe possibly be done by the end of the year maybe possibly so speaking yeah no i was gonna you know too easy sorry oh that's

a pretty good one yeah yeah which if you want to do it you can do it okay well speaking of things that maybe are possibly coming soon maybe possibly maybe and i've been rolling out extremely slowly extremely unlikely to be soon but could be because they're working on it i think maybe maybe we don't know unclear allegedly yeah apparently elon musk mentioned on a tesla earnings call recently that the tesla roadster will be going into production in 2026 because they've completed most of the engineering on it right the car in 2017 they've completed most of the engineering i'm pretty sure i could design a car in seven years you know yeah this i know nothing there are whole companies that have designed a car stole a bunch of money and folded in the time that this hasn't well they designed to start a stole a bunch of money, and haven't folded it.

That's a fact. Because they also shipped other cars. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. This has clearly been what the messaging has been the whole time is this is the cherry on top. It's the dessert.

It's not a priority. We're prioritizing these things that are way more important like robo-taxis. Yeah. TeslaBot. October, theoretically. Yeah. I mean, Model 3 and Model Y things that are way more important like robo taxis yeah tesla bot october theoretically yeah yeah i mean model 3 and model y are the most obvious priorities for that company and they're

ramping up cyber truck production as we speak so yeah all those things cut the line and roadster has been on the back burner i would argue surface laptop review. Just keeps getting cut in line, you know, by other things. I think they nailed the messaging that the Tesla Roadster is last on their priority. Heard you loud and clear, Tesla. Jerry on top. Yeah, it should be maybe a little more prioritized, considering people gave them $250,000. There's low priority and there's no priority.

I think we're creeping towards no priority. Yeah, like they could announce an earnings call tomorrow and it would take priority. Yeah, I mean Elon also just says things all the time. That's really the main thing. That's really the main thing.

This is an article because everything he says on those earnings calls gets a write-up of an article so this is one of the things he said and now it's an article and it's a headline. And it's, hey, could it come out in 2026? I saw this headline and I literally sighed and kept scrolling. I'll believe it when I see it. Your car will make money for you by 2017, Marques.

Allegedly. It'll drive itself across the country too, huh? By 2017, Marques. I feel like at best what these articles do is just remind you how much people have put down as a deposit already yeah be like oh i feel really bad i'm missing that money right now yeah but yeah if you had put it in stock you would be wealthy oh yeah or if you just had it you would have or if you just had a thousand dollars there's also a better car that's come out in the meantime.

So yeah, that's what I put down here. I was wondering if you would consider it better. Well, we don't know anything about the actual roadster. I tried to throw specs down of what the roadster is supposed to have and then compared it to the Lucid Air Sapphire, which has come out, which you've said is a wild car, right? It's an incredible car. Yeah.

If you want to go just by the actual specs that tesla has published and just give them the benefit of the doubt and say that that's what the specs will actually be then uh they're very competitive and you should just get the air sapphire today because it's it's just the same car without this tesla supercharger network right are they also moving to nacs later aren't they moving to nacs uh so i don't know the specifics of if you can when you'll be able to buy a sapphire with the nacs port on it versus adapters i don't know that yet it'll probably happen before the roadster comes out i hope so i think what we do know is the gravity is supposed to have actually no

i did i don't i can't remember i did a video on the gravity but i think that also had a the seems like any cars coming out in 2025 are supposed to have nacs right that seems like when we're starting to get the physical ports inside of cars yeah and then this year is the adapters or is it next year's the adapt we're getting adapters now like the rivians have adapters right now yeah but either way so zero to 60 under two seconds they're both crazy fast the top speed being over 200 miles an hour for both of them it's supposed to be over 250 for the roadster yeah okay yeah um the price also 250k for the founder series roadster 250k for the lucid air sapphire i didn't realize that was and the the weird thing that we don't know if they're going to keep because they keep saying they're making the car better but they also said at launch 200 kilowatt hour battery and

620 mile range uh that's insane that's just a lot of weight if you tried to do that with today's battery tech that would be extremely heavy so i kind of weight if you tried to do that with today's battery tech that would be extremely heavy so i kind of doubt that they're going to nail those specs but hey benefit of the doubt let's say they do that they finished the engineering it's done well almost oh my my bad the thing that also keeps being said by people like franz and other people at tesla is that this car will be better in every way than what they originally announced. So we keep going. I hope so. Well, no, the specs that they announced

are world-beater, like, crazy specs. The speed's not anymore. The speed is, yeah. 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds, a 9-second quarter mile, and 620 miles of range. It's like, okay, if those are the specs, that would be the best electric car you can buy today.

But they say it's going to be better in every way from what they originally announced. I mean, how? Maybe they basically, Elon just said, you need to make all the specs at least this good. And the engineering team was like, the technology is literally not there yet. So we have to wait until the tech is there. That's why it took seven years. But now, yeah, now they're saying it to wait until the tech is there that's why it took seven years but now yeah now they're saying it's better and the tech is ready and the engineering is i mean maybe it's done we'll see so i feel like one thing that tesla would have over lucid but i would

also argue isn't that relevant here is full self-driving is i'm sure their automated driving is better than lucid but like if you're buying one one of these cars to just be like an absolute monster i feel like you enjoy driving and don't care about that quite as much full self-driving is terrifying still and i wouldn't put my 250 000 car in the potential for an insane now what would it be 265 000 with full self-driving does this i'm assuming this does not include full self-driving no it does oh it does under series includes everything man they're just really throwing your phone here they're so thoughtful yeah value holy crap okay yeah i don't know i just want if you wind up getting this car ever can you make the license plate

2017 lol that's the sound that'd be solid one. That would be pretty good. It's the exact amount of letters, I think. Yeah, it is. Seven. Do we think this comes out in 2026? 2026? Yeah. Same thing with Cybertruck?

50 production line vehicles? I think so. Yeah? I think it's possible. I'm going to know. You think it's going to be 10 years? Man, just hit that double digits, baby. It looks way cooler. No, I don't know.

I'll just say no just because history. Can I just kind of say about another car that is going through a similar thing? Sure. This is very niche, just like the Roadster. The Lord's Town. The Koenigsegg Gemera. Yeah. Have you heard of this?

I've heard of Koenigsegg gemera yeah i've heard of koenigsegg so koenigsegg makes like a bunch of extremely expensive but also really really high performance cars and years ago they announced a two-row like super family sedan type thing and they had this crazy spec of like a crazy zero to 60 super fast but the other thing they did was they announced two different uh powertrains for it they said there's going to be a hybrid i don't remember the exact details but it was like a tiny three cylinder with electrical assist so it would be super efficient and get great gas mileage but also be super powerful this like crazy wonder motor they were going to build okay and then also they would offer like an eight cylinder with a huge engine that has even more performance and apparently nobody bought the three cylinder one almost nobody a few people did and they just decided

to cancel that one and shift everyone to the eight cylinder one which they're also still not making yet but at least they can just focus on one skew how much is the down like how much you have to pay for it how much is it oh i've no it's probably a trillion and a half dollars how do these how many people have this much money jimera well they're they don't oh what what would like a hundred of these be made that's a lot of people this feels like not that far off i'm i'm asking this as a question i'm not saying it similar to the rivera like in terms of low numbers of production low volume yeah yes super low volume super low volume but just another one of those things i just i don't know how many i want to know how many people actually have a roadster pre-order still to this day yeah if you you can get a refund on your deposit, right? I don't think so.

Have you never checked that? I thought the Roadster was non-refundable. Yeah, it's... The deposit? Yeah, it's an order fee. It's not a deposit. It's an order fee. Yeah, I believe that's correct.

Oh, it was like wire transfer, right? This is sounding like the Escobar. Are you still getting another one because of the... Well, that was the thing. It was like there's a free one from the referral program. Yeah, are you still getting that one because of the... Well, that was the thing. It was like there's a free one from the referral program. Yeah. Are you still getting that one? I don't know.

No one knows. That's another completely open-ended question that nobody knows. Oh, my gosh. I can't hear anything about that. Yeah. No, apparently it's refundable. I'm looking it up right now. It's refundable as long as the purchase agreement hasn't been entered yet, which there is also

no purchase agreement yet. But that money's just been sitting with Tesla. So why get that money back now? $250,000 loans put that in an index fund and just made a lot of money yeah well we should talk about the whole y2k thing the elephant in the room crowd strike there's an elephant in here that's the noise an elephant makes um yeah so i think casey newton had a very funny tweet about this when the whole thing first started happening well it wasn't a tweet it was threads post and he said i think he said like a sad day for me is i unfortunately need to learn what crowd strikes um and that kind of describes our last week yeah i feel like so a lot of people asked us this obviously happened on a friday after the pod was released already and everyone was like

can you please talk about crowd strike but we released the pod already so it was an insanely worldwide outage um of microsoft computers because of this program or a company called CrowdStrike and a program they have called Falcon. And I knew almost nothing about it. So a lot of the explanation here is going to be research that we've done and videos that we've watched. And I will include some great sources that really know what they're talking about. But this is extremely confusing. I haven't researched this at all. But I remember what i saw happen yeah yeah let's let's describe what happened yeah like we i we woke up and you log in and you just see that like tons and tons of businesses and major compute things are just not working like you know how you walk into chipotle and they're like our systems are down today sorry you're like, that's too bad.

It was that for everyone at once, everywhere. Everywhere, all at once. Everything, everywhere. It turned out to be not just like businesses, but major transit centers, airports, 911 call centers, like everything that relies, a shocking amount of things rely on this specific setup and these programs that all had this outage at the same time. So it was kind of just like a rolling, cascading set of stories of, oh, by the way, these seven states, you can't call 911 right now because that's broken.

Oh, by the way, these 12 airports, like every flight in the U.S. is grounded at the same time because they all rely on this system. Delta had over 5,000 canceled flights because of this. Damn. Which is crazy. It was 8.5 million computers affected worldwide. People were calling this essentially what Y2K was supposed to be. I hope everyone remembers Y2K. If not, that's all. You can look that up yourself but uh so this outage you're

talking about was physically these computers were in the blue the windows blue screen of death like if you walked into an airport which is wearing the same yeah so i think accidentally should temporarily superimpose the bsod on his shirt um But like if you were to walk into an airport, most of the screens were just the Windows blue screen. That annoying smiley face that's like system recovery and just not working. We actually, Tim's flight got canceled because of it. Somehow my mom flew in the night before

and missed all of this. So very lucky. But tons of flights completely canceled. We all know what happens when airports get backed up. That was pure chaos for the weekend. But if we want to go a little deeper into, oh, wait, actually the funniest outage, though, was there was a photo on the pit wall of a Formula One race on free practice on Friday of the Mercedes team with their computers down i don't

think it was photoshopped it's so perfect that i have to be wary of it but one of microsoft or mercedes biggest sponsors for their f1 team is crowd strike so there's a guy in a shirt that says mercedes and crowd strike on the back and like a bunch of screens that were just blue screen oh man because of crowd strike yeah so that was very funny it looked like a meme template but i apparently that actually happened. I saw multiple angles, so it makes me think it was real, but I'm not 100% sure.

Okay, should we attempt to explain it? We should preface this with there's this YouTube channel called Dave's Garage from this retired software engineer for Microsoft who does a very good job at explaining a lot of these things. He has now made, as of time of recording, two videos about this because there was the original outage in which he was very quick to make a video explaining everything. When you watch the video,

unless you are a computer, like a software engineer, it's still very confusing. Just prefacing that. My notes are based on watching the whole thing through once, going through and pausing it to write notes, and watching one more time, and I probably understand 30% of what it is. It's very confusing. Okay. I mean, we can try. I mean, we were also summarizing,

like we don't have to break it down in detail. We can link this video for people who want to watch that. Yeah. But what's the TLDR of like what happened? And honestly honestly my questions are like okay it was an accident so is it gonna happen again or is right a tiny thing that hopefully never happens yeah so should I do this or do you want to do this sir it's up to you go for it and if I try and think of salt interrupts yeah

if I say something wrong okay I can't promise that so yeah neither can I I'm doing my best okay so crowdstrike is a security software that runs on a lot of microsoft windows machines um it is software that is made to sort of intersect potential threats to the system very quickly intercept sorry what did i say intersect oh intercept yes intercept uh a lot of novel threats to the system very quickly because cybersecurity is a category that's just grown extremely rapidly in the last 10 years

because all of these crazy threats are just getting insane. So this sits on a lot of Windows computers. In order to basically patch all of these potential vulnerabilities it needs special access to the kernel on windows um the kernel is something that has like os level permissions and because that is such a safe space that okay is there is like uh-huh yeah i got you yeah because that is something that is such an

important part of the system uh most things do not have kernel access and if anything goes wrong at the kernel level it's bad it will just blue screen of death because there is the potential for like insane vulnerabilities if it's like oh my god we detected an error at the kernel this could be an attack of some sort so as a precaution it just crashes the system and doesn't let you do anything i think windows essentially the blue screen is it's like fail safe protection of like something really bad was about to happen or we're not sure if something really bad was about to happen we should blue screen this um and i also just want to throw in there crowd strikes the company falcon is the program that this ran from.

Yes. Which was on all of these computers. Which was on apparently like more than 300 of the top 500 companies in the world's computers. Very popular. Fortune 500, yeah. So CrowdStrike had pushed an update to Falcon that had this bug in it. And the bug was basically pointing to a piece of memory that didn't have anything in it.

And that caused all of the systems to blue screen. The funny thing about this is that they had validation software that validates that the code that they are about to push doesn't have any problems, but there was a bug in the validation software as well. You hate to see it. It was like a multi-level problem. So there was a bug in the validation software as well. You hate to see it. It was like a multi-level problem.

So there was a bug in the validation software. A bug in the bug catcher. I know. Crazy. A bug in the bug catcher that didn't catch the bug. And yeah, there's a lot of memes about this that are quite funny. They're just like, don't push to production on a Friday.

My favorites were like, first day at the office, just push some code. That was so funny. taking the weekend off one thing that's a little strange here and potentially why this problem made it all the way through is generally in order to create things at a kernel level microsoft has something called whql certification where if you're creating something for essentially it's something if you're creating something for essentially it's something if you're creating something at the kernel level microsoft will test it and certify and certify it to make sure that it has no issues so falcon is whql certified but i believe the way they update it sometimes to get past that or to not have it go through the lengthy process of certification through microsoft

in order they want to you know be ahead of threats coming in so sometimes they can't wait for that they essentially i believe had a driver pack that the already certified software was pulling from and in that situation that's how they can push it in without getting the certification it's just now it's pointing to a new set because the driver pack has been certified the the program's been certified and they can update the data that's inside the driver pack without the full certification because it's still pushed without the full certification because of that they push something into an already certified program that it's now that program was already leading to i see adam's scratching his chin does that sound wrong no i'm just curious

what's the point of the certification then well because microsoft wants to certify anything anything that can access the kernel and it's sort of like you only need to certify it once the point of the certificate you want so that's the that's the big question mark that i don't know the answer to is like did is it okay for companies to do this like did they get the okay from microsoft to do this because they are a company that needs to catch novel threats as fast as possible? Or were they doing this without Microsoft's right? I had understood based on the official CrowdStrike statement, which I assumed is buried in legalese. But they wanted everyone to know that channel, was it 291?

Yeah. Channel 293? I forget. Whichever actual channel in the System32 folder it was is not actually a kernel driver and not actually operating at the kernel level, which is why they were able to push the update. But what it does do is it informs the Falcon software, which is operating at a kernel level which is what we're how yeah how to do it so i think that is how they were able to get around microsoft because they weren't they weren't modifying code that runs at a kernel level they were they were modifying code that is an instruction set for the falcon sensor that runs so that's what was updated without certification but the program

that's certified ran that yeah or pointed to it and because of that now that kernel program is seeing something incorrect exactly question though is like why should that be allowed because you're basically modifying the program without getting a sign off by microsoft new one i understand this is like novel threat detection and you need to do this stuff quickly so the big question is does microsoft allow this kind of stuff or were they just they did that time i mean i guess that so it feels like it's kind of the perfect storm of like it's it was a friday they got pushed really quick there was a bug in the bug catcher that didn't catch the bug that was pointing to this thing and so everything just went to crap really fast and to a large number of people. Also testing and production seems crazy,

but I don't know. It's also what's so big about it is because Microsoft systems are so prominent across the world. Things like this have happened with CrowdStrike before on Linux software, multiple times in different types of builds and different updates,

and it's crashed them. But this just happened to be the big one yeah with 8.5 million computers worldwide that hit and what was really messed up about this entire thing or not messed up is like how hard it is to fix it because in order to the fix was booting the physical computer into safe mode deleting the specific file and then rebooting or there was something i saw about like rebooting a system 15 times somehow maybe i don't know it back to a try trying it off have you tried again and again battery out for 30 seconds essentially imagine 8.5 million computers that essentially have to be rebooted in safe mode and it's tough there were a lot of it engineers

that were called in on the weekend shout out if you're listening you're the hero yeah you really are the hero yeah guys it's okay because crowd strike gave everyone a ten dollar what no way over eats gift card no as an apology you have to be kidding are you serious who's everyone tech crunch articles some of their partners no way there's no that's the biggest part of this story wait is that true adam thanks it guy who just reset 10 000 computers enjoy what can ten dollars get you on uber eats is that even a whole mcdonald's meal with the charge that's the delivery that's like the tip and the delivery fee oh my gosh yeah that's great so what was funny is

i had a frisbee game during the weekend and like sometimes there's people in the stands and i'll say hi to them after the game and inevitably there's like one or two people who are like oh have you heard about this like gadget or this story or whatever and the only thing anybody asked me about that day was did you hear about those windows computers it's like they're all blue screening everywhere i was like yeah i did see that i think what's unfortunate is like the way that this turned into an issue or the way it reset itself in recovery is such a microsoft forward thing like everyone knows blue screen of death as a microsoft thing so it almost it looks like solely a microsoft issue yeah the uh dave's garage in his second

video brought up some points on how like it's this was crowdstrike's fault but like is it kind of microsoft's fault for letting people do this should they have a different way of it being able to he explains it so much better than any of us could but if you're looking for like what like someone who knows what they're talking about thought on this yeah and how like microsoft could be partially to blame on this i highly recommend that video it's a lot of information it's a lot of information he's fantastic uh watch it three times and then do not watch it three times i probably have to watch it at half speed in order to actually understand what's this is the one thing I cannot watch at 2x speed.

It makes a lot of sense why iOS updates and a lot of Apple updates come in waves. Yeah. Because if someone's phone gets bricked, at least they can pull the plug before... Well, also, you just don't test in production. Were they really testing? Well, it's not testing. Testing in production basically just means

pushing without testing. Yeah, it sounds like the not testing it the testing and production basically just means pushing without testing but i thought but it sounds like the bug was in the testing aspect yeah because they ran it through the the bug detection software oh that's fair so like as far as they knew yeah tested well in like i mean yeah i don't know the details but it like it's like did the bug detection software say that it had a bug that wasn't testing it? Or did it say it was okay and it was validated? I don't know. Who knows?

But yeah, I mean, there's always a lot of drama around iOS updates or app updates on the iPhone not getting approved by Apple for one reason or the other. Usually it's for reasons that don't make any sense and then they eventually approve it anyway. Usually it's for reasons that don't make any sense and then they eventually approve it anyway. But this is one that you definitely need to make sure everything is chill before you push that update button. Yeah. So and it's funny that no one had to like there's that joke about how Windows always wants to update itself at the most like at the worst possible time. And no one even wanted had to update their windows computers for this to get pushed it was like a server-side update that kind of just completely destroyed a bunch of people's computers it's crazy how much of the world just runs on microsoft you know the funniest part about all of it was southwest didn't go down because they're running windows like 3.1 which is

like a 1993 software and then and i did they i think they tweeted, actually. Because all their stuff went down a while ago because of their weird stuff. So now they were like, who's winning now? Still working. There was a good post from somebody where an airline in India was literally ticketing people by

hand. They were just writing the boarding passes by hand. Drawing QR codes out well another place that runs a lot of really old window systems is hospitals so there was this interesting thing where well no so the people at the front desk who are using update up-to-date windows were like we can't book appointments we can't process payments but the surgical robots that are running on 20 25 year old windows because why would you ever need

to update yeah they were fine oh good that is our very base level explanation of it there's lots of great info out there but highly suggest dave's garage and there's a bunch of other great stuff out there as well yeah and it was it made for a fun friday yeah as long as you weren't affected by for some for some yeah uh okay we should take break. We got to talk about a whole bunch more stuff, including some more phones. But before we take that break, let's do trivia. So after the break, we're going to talk about a certain company allegedly maybe getting into the foldable market. Oh, yeah.

But before then, a foldable question. Oh yeah. But before then, a foldable question. Okay. Oh, folding ideas. In 2013 at mobile world Congress, 2013, 2013,

one year, the same year that her came out or maybe one year before the same year. Don't remember what year, 2013, same year as her. Who? A company, a tech company, a blank tech company, gave a demonstration showing off folding OLED screens.

What company was it? There are two options here. 13. That's what you think.'s true okay i do remember maybe it's not true i wonder if this is the mwc that i went to you were 2013 sounds like around i've only gone to one mwc i think it was later when did the vibe come out because that's the one you went to because there was a trivia question i that one. I was looking up Barcelona in my Google Photos. It wasn't MWC, it was CES.

At CES. In January of 2013. Folding OLEDs. Who did it? Who done it? Well, I was at CES, but I was at MWC 2015 I just found. There are three options. Okay. Well, we'll think about it. Answers will be at CES, but I was at MWC 2015, I just found. There are three options.

Okay. Well, we'll think about it. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Autograph Collection Hotels offer over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Hand-selected for their inherent craft, each hotel tells its own unique story through distinctive design and immersive experiences, from medieval falconry to volcanic wine tasting.

and immersive experiences, from medieval falconry to volcanic wine tasting. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of over 30 hotel brands around the world. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. All right, welcome back. So today, actually, not today, but the day this gets released is the opening ceremony for the Olympics. Have you heard about that? First time.

Pretty big deal. It's pretty cool, actually. It's pretty cool. I'm excited to watch it. But did you see the gifts that were given out to a bunch of the athletes from Samsung? I heard, yeah. Samsung always gives out a bunch of phones. I didn't know they always did.

They do. For a while, yeah. There are two TikToks I found that were pretty funny, and I want to quickly talk about them. One I thought was really funny. It's from a British rowing athlete, Imogen Grant, I believe her name is. She may have made the greatest phone upgrade in history. She has the Tokyo Samsung Galaxy s21 from the tokyo olympics and she has

saved it until she upgraded this year yeah to the flip six she's daily driving the last olympics phone she she her her phone upgrade was because she was an olympian twice that's a flex it was it's it's the coolest screen is like so messed up. It's literally like missing pixels completely. And she says in there, she's like, I held onto this and made it survive because all I wanted to do was upgrade it. What if she came and Samsung decided not to do it?

Or just give the ring instead or something. That would be hilarious. That would be awesome. So I just think that's like one of the cool thing. And you know, there's always people out there asking us, hey, I want to start a channel. How do I get free tech to review just become an olympian yeah just qualify for the olympics and you should be set i don't actually know if like does every

olympian get a phone i don't know how that feels like that's what happened i how many olympians are there there are a lot of thousands of olympians i can't say for sure all of them do but the other tiktok i wanted to talk about is from the new zealand swim team and this is from a british rower so it seems like that's a pretty big distance both i don't know water sport it would be really funny if samsung's like we only give phones to english-speaking water sport olympians yeah basketball players sorry about that track and field athletes nah only if you're water related people chase you'll get a phone just that counts

as a swimming base yeah there's a little water on the track um i just thought that was a really funny tiktok i'll also post both of these in the show notes and by me i mean adam will do it but um there's another one of the new zealand swimming team that i just thought was funny because it's it's a really good representation to me of how like average people view tech yeah and it's weird calling olympians average people because they're anything but average people but in our tech world they are average also the new zealand swim team is like really young they're definitely young like 19 or something it's really fun watching them open it they're they're like bro it's built like an iphone whoa it flips in half what and they say specifically

at the end apple needs to catch up with this stuff like apple needs to make a folding phone but they're they're super impressed by it they've never i don't think i've seen a folding smartphone they love the screen on the back they also all do the like asmr screen peel yeah in the unboxing it's funny it's pretty sweet and samsung also has a like special welcome message message on the first boot yeah to olympians funny part is it boots so fast none of them could read the entire thing tried to read it on camera just went away to your olympians and paralympians oh it's gone pretty much is how they um yeah but it's a sweet looking phone it's gold it has like the olympic rings on the back it's a galaxy z flip six yes by the way sorry if i did not mention that and it comes with a very cool case too that has like this rainbow on it is pretty sick yeah um this is like the best

marketing that samsung could possibly do literally to get a bunch of people to like just organically say man apple needs to catch up to this yeah congrats samsung marketing team normally you have to pay people to to do this kind of stuff and just giving them to all the Olympians and have them just naturally post about it is crazy. It's great marketing. Yeah, it's right in the fuzzy gray area between paid and earned media

because they did have to give them all phones for free, which is like they can afford to do that pretty easily. And then once you give them all custom designed phones that you spent extra money customizing for them then they'll all talk about your i'm assuming in order to even give them those phones samsung is a gigantic sponsor of the olympics right i assume so in some way i'm assuming so these athletes aren't individually getting paid by samsung but there's obviously some money exchange but i would argue the olympians saying it was organically because none of them i'm assuming signed a contract saying i need to

talk about this they're just olympians all trying to get show off the olympic village every video right now is a samsung flip or a cardboard bed from olympians right oh because you know what happens they all go to the openings this is what's going to happen. Because at Tokyo, they all go to the opening ceremonies and they're all holding up the phone, like recording things. And then Samsung takes those clips and they're like, oh, see, look, LeBron James, you have a Z flip.

And that's how they get you. Right. Yeah. Also, I wish that iPhones did not have dominance in the United States like they do because this would only work in other countries you know if samsung if we had a major event of some kind you mean like the world cup in 2026 was that in america well it's going to be in america it's 2026 it hasn't i'm

just saying like if there was like i don't know some major sports event only the united people in the united states played for and samsung was like giving you all phones everyone be like i'm not switching off my iphone but every other country is like hell yeah i just need whatsapp you know yeah i'm sure they could pay enough money to make sure all the people in the u.s only use that phone for a day for a day yeah which is all they need fair enough fair enough speaking of folding phones speaking of apple needing to catch up with this stuff yeah uh apple is allegedly catching up with this stuff so there was a big leak uh recently that apple is actually potentially allegedly going to be producing a foldable iPhone in 2026.

Maybe. Possibly. Ellis looks very frustrated. No, the opposite. Excited. Excited. I want to know how many things we've said in this podcast between the alleged roadster and the alleged folding iPhone that have been said

exactly the same in how many episodes of Wave 4. This is just kind of the state of tech journalism in 2024. Everything is just real and then state of tech journalism in 2024 everything is just real and then it's not real and it's real again you're welcome um yeah obviously we've heard about folding iphones for millennia at this point but apparently allegedly there are suppliers in different parts of asia that are actually getting orders for parts for a folding iphone um very similar to the galaxy z flip unfortunately for the fans of the hot dog out there um not going to be an opening phone in the way that it opens horizontally but it will be much more like a galaxy z flip where it gets smaller i do like

that samsung has nailed the folding phone in general so good that like when we say fold we think book style hot dog style and when we say flip we think of that like that's true yeah would you just say flip style flip style i like i think that's the easiest way of saying it folds if you say a folding phone it's like the fold if you say flipping phone that's actually a good point like they have almost google-ified the idea of a folding phone is there a name for that like being so popular you turn into a verb kleenex google when you're branding that's not a verb but i think it just may be more so than generative try to pronounce that generative ai genericization generic genericization genericization or generic side that sounds terrible yeah we gotta cut that no that's what it says i know no that's the word that's it's when you're

yeah when your product slash brand name becomes the noun of the thing interesting yeah taser um taser taser is not brand name brand i mean it's an acronym but it's not a brand name? I mean, it's an acronym, but it's also a brand name. It's trademarked. New Jersey has an extremely specific one, which is our pork roll. A lot of people call it Taylor Ham. Taylor Ham. No, Taylor Ham is the brand.

The brand. Sorry, sorry. It's the brand. I'm from California. Sorry, I just said the wrong thing. I know. I've heard this argument my whole life, boy. All right, let's get back to the folding hamburgers and hot dogs, guys.

Yeah, okay. So Samsung, so Apple allegedly going to make a flippy iPhone. Yes. The question is, is that what we want? Is that, because I've said this on the podcast before, is Apple has a bunch of flipping and folding iphone prototypes somewhere underground in apple park yeah and they've been trying to decide which one for a while yeah and it seems like they're going to do the flippy one my reaction is it's yeah it's the

most popular one but it doesn't feel like the most uh difference maker considering the state of the women's clothing industry i think think this is going to do very well. I think this pops. Yeah. And because of what we've already said, Apple is so prominent in the US. I think there are so many people who have iPhones now, they're like, wow, Samsung is doing this really cool thing,

but I'm not ditching my iPhone. And think about every time an iPhone kind of changes and becomes like some part of it becomes iconic now this is going to become iconic even though four or five other manufacturers have done it already in the u.s it's going to pop i think that folding phones will fold fold style phones galaxy fold style phones are like super user phones like there's no way any regular person just went and bought a one plus open or so there's a couple reasons for that i mean yes they're also huge and they're like not ideal but they're also like always the most expensive they're always that's twice the price of all the

other phones that's true so good point not that apple's is going to be cheap and change that but yeah but i think there's also something to be said for like when it's a flip phone the the concept is that you're not using your phone quite as often whereas the fold phone is that you're using your phone the same amount but when you're really using it you're super using it you know and so the idea of the flip phone is for i guess more targeted at like fashion and normies because they're not like the power users that are constantly wanting to do things big on their phone it's not extra functionality it's extra pocketability and and it still does have a wise a wow factor yeah like people like wow factors and phones i think we all know that but this is i think the flip flip style makes perfect sense for apple it makes

the most sense i've also been trying to picture an Apple flipping iPhone and if there's any way that they can differentiate from all the ones that are already out. Because I feel like we've seen it all, but I also felt like that about VR headsets and now they have the googly eyes on the outside. So is there an Apple version of that? Here's how it's different.

It has an Apple logo on it. I mean, that's good enough for a lot of people. that's good enough for a lot of people that's good enough for a lot of people I feel like they're just gonna put everything that's cool about the dynamic island on the front screen I don't think it'll be an actual usable screen kind of like the Samsung phones

or they just won't have a screen on the front that would be crazy that would be tough does that defeat the point not really i think so i need to see the time or something on the it's funny i want to see the back more than the front of the folding iphone they did such a good job with standby mode on the current iphone i feel like they could really fair whip up something really yeah that would be cool yeah so my question is there was this leak a few weeks ago that I believe we covered that they are apparently trying to release an iPhone slim in 2027.

But I'm wondering if these are the same product because in the article that I read, the articles that I read about the folding iPhone, they said they're actively still working to make it thinner. So I'm wondering if these are like the same product and the leaks got mixed up somehow um which would be interesting yeah but apparently it's moving ahead which is good to see because you know the last major design change that we saw on the iphone was the iphone 12 and even that was like you know we went from circular to squared off i feel like the 10 was the one everyone remembers yeah and yeah the difference between the iphone 15 and 16 is like probably not gonna be that much yeah you know yeah there's apparently going yeah wait no yeah the variable aperture is apparently going to be in the 17 i think there's

a there were a lot of apple leaks this week uh including apparently allegedly a foldable MacBook-like device. Foldable display. Yeah. Because everyone always says that. That would be so funny. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. We get it. Foldable display laptop. But apparently it should have two options of

either 18.8 inches or 20 inches. That's almost the same. I don't know. 20 inches is pretty big. That's almost the same. I don't know. 20 inches is pretty big. 19 and 20. Well, wait, yeah.

20 inch display. When the display is folded out and then doesn't have the keyboard. And then it has it. So that is still half the size. It said when it's folded in, it's about 15 inches. And then it's folded out. It's about 20 inches.

Oh, oh, so it's doing some, wait, that sounds like moto. Yeah. So it said when it's folded out it's about 20 inches oh oh so it's doing some wait that sounds some like moto yeah so it said when it's closed uh well when it's like folded closed it's about the smaller one is 13 to 14 inches and when it's open it's 18.8 and then the bigger one is about 15 inches closed and 20 inches open so footprint wise's two laptops, a 13 inch and a 15 inch. One, they're closed. When you open them, they're a big foldable screen.

So the small one is an 18 inch and the large one is a 20 inch. That feels like too small a delta. I still think it's not that big of a difference. 15 to 20 inches? No, 18.8 to 20. Well, yeah. From what I read, you're still still gonna be able to use it when

it's when it's not unfolded oh so it's not like it's not yeah it's it's like expanding not okay closed completely i guys no no the i am so excited about this because i need someone to draw this for me the best my favorite form factor of any modern device i've used like like modern computer the books no form factor the asus zenbook 17 fold that computer sucks that computer is, it really is terrible. But the form factor, where you've got the keyboard that you lay over the bottom half of the screen, you open it, you can put it on the kickstand, you can use it as a little laptop. If Apple could perfect that. This is one I found where there's two concepts. So these are just concepts. But if this is the way the concept works, it would make the most sense in terms of the numbers that you're saying

this is uh who posted this here's majin buu is the concept of who made it imagine a macbook and then the screen just comes all the way down to where the keyboard is and it's basically a touch bar now it's part of this and that folds so you're gaining like right an inch vertically that'd be of space and the whole length around that's why you're only going from like 15 to 18 inches but that display is under this verge article says uh kuo says that apple is considering an 18 point okay uh yeah an 18.8 inch panel. Yeah, an 18.8-inch panel when closed, the 20-inch version will reportedly look similar to the 14- to 15-inch MacBook, while the 18.8-inch device will look like a 13- to 14-inch MacBook.

I see. That's what Kuo is reporting, and that Verge covered. That's a different. So, okay, who knows? They just seem to want to bring the Touch Bar idea back. I would lean towards that, because if the just full-screen folding in half, I would assume they'd call that a folding iPad, not a folding Mac. Well, does it run Mac OS or iPad OS?

True. It's like also like when you have the trackpad keyboard combo unit that like sandwiches in the middle, like the ASUS ZenBook 17 fold. It really it's a laptop for sure it's a it's a mobile it's a mobile mf computer guys right it's rules mobile first yeah terrible computers don't buy one doesn't matter how cheap it is it's not worth it yeah god is it i mean it's not cheap it's really well it's it's old they're like they've replaced well the newest one's like three thousand dollars yeah i think it the when it came out was a more for yeah you get 16 gigabytes of ram it's like what that's who are you kidding fine i don't know anyway okay alphabet is committing five billion more dollars to waymo

which is a lot of money um have any of you guys used waymo in production recently nope no okay it's amazing very california it's amazing. I hear that's very California. It's amazing. Every time I'm in San Francisco, I use it and it's just so freaking good. It's crazy. It feels safer than most of the Ubers that drive me around. I believe that. Yeah.

Google apparently had a very, well, Alphabet had a very strong quarter this past quarter. Apparently it was because of AI solutions, which at first I was like, how? But then I realized it was mostly because of Google Cloud AI stuff, which makes more sense

because developers are actually using this kind of stuff. The cloud division hit $10 billion for the first time and $1 billion in operating operating profit um and i think that that is sort of what allowed them to put more money into waymo so they're not gonna kill it yet um yeah so the interesting thing about this is like waymo is so good already and it's operating in three major cities it's operating in san francisco phoenix and los angeles and parts of los angeles and riding in waymo it feels so polished that i really am starting to feel like they're they need competition like asap otherwise they're just going to be like a monopoly in the driverless car space famously there was cruise which still technically is this and i believe recently

got their license to go back onto the streets but there was this huge problem well there was an incident with cruise where someone got hit by a different car got knocked into the street and then a cruise vehicle dragged them um a certain amount of feet and then they got put under investigation all this stuff happened i believe they're back on the road uh but either way yes it seems like venmo is going to continue waymo venmo jeez they're almost it seems like waymo is going to continue to improve and potentially reach more cities and whatnot um but if you guys ever go to san francisco or phoenix or los angeles i highly recommend it and they also opened up rides to anyone very recently do they give rides from the

airport no not yet but they are that's the next thing that they're doing in san francisco okay that's the most common yeah california uber that i did and it's only a 15 minute drive as well in san francisco airport's a whole nother beast i feel like because that's yeah when i hear that it's in San Francisco proper, I just imagine like, okay, I see those streets as being ready for that type of driver. New York City is a totally different animal. And I wonder why they're in these three particular cities

is because these are very much driving cities and they're going to be best in driving cities. Yeah, New York City's not really a driving city. Well, San Francisco I wouldn't really consider a driving city. No? are very much driving cities and they're going to be best in driving cities and yeah new york city is not really a driving city well san francisco i wouldn't really consider a driving city no not really it's like in the city city or like all of san francisco in the city city it's not it's not like the east bay or anything it's not the general bay area it's just the city of san francisco okay the seven by seven square mile area gotcha yeah so but very good so anyway i'm excited that google is not immediately killing this product that i like

um if you say it three times they might it just might happen they might with that i think we Take it to our second trivia question. Trivia, dude. So, second question. The DC-01 is a popular home appliance made by which company? That DC-01 was like the barrel connector plug that gets plugged in for DC power. Probably. Isn't that what they call it? Sure.

No idea. I might need a hint on that one. DC-O-1. You said home company? Home appliance. Home appliance. Very popular home appliance company. Can't be that popular. I've never heard of a DC01.

What is a DC01? I haven't heard of half the names of appliances in my house. They're named pretty poorly. That's true. What's the model of your dishwasher? I don't have a dishwasher. I hope it has the word dishwasher in it. I doubt it.

Sony WH-1000X Mark washer. I have a Samsung dishwasher It'd be so funny if it's a DC-01 and you try and search it right now Samsung dishwasher They do not have I doubt it Okay well we'll guess and get it wrong after the break We'll be right back. in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite skater, or your style, there's something every NHL

fan is going to love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your hockey home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM. A sportsbook worth a celly and an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League.

BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. All right, welcome back. We're about to talk about keyboards. advisor free of charge bet mgm operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario all right welcome back we're about to talk about keyboards my goal is to not bore everybody i actually think the story is fairly interesting it's there's an overarching like thing question here about it have we created a piece of hardware that basically is pay to win for video games thanks adam do that in about three minutes and it'll be totally that basically is pay to win for video games thanks Adam do that in about three minutes and it'll be totally valid not only pay to win for video games but like undetectable by

software yeah pretty much but in order to explain what's going on I need to explain a very specific mechanic in an extremely specific video 1960s we're gonna be talking about razor and a new keyboard they have out called the huntsman 3 and it has a a piece of inside of the

hardware and software it makes something extremely easy almost like cheating like there's a video out by this guy named optimum about how this is essentially cheating in specific video games okay so in some tactical shooters like counter-strike there's a mechanic called counter-strafing and what happens is in order to shoot with 100 accuracy your character needs to not be moving have you ever played like an fps where your crosshair kind of moves in and out based on how much you're moving and that's how much spread the bullets will have. Counter-Strike is extremely specific to where you have to be completely stopped moving.

And in order to do that, you can't just hold the move right key and let go because your character has momentum as they're stopping. So if you want to be at the absolute top level of this game, you want that difference between letting go of the key and stop moving and having 100 accuracy that could be the difference between being the top rank in order to do that you have to hold the right key let go and tap the left key super fast and that will stop you immediately it's an extremely hard mechanic to learn. You have to have very precise movement with

it or timing with it. It's a feel thing. It's a feel thing. And if you overlap those two key presses at the same time, it doesn't work because it's activating both key presses. To my homies that played a lot of GameCube, there was a mechanic in Super Smash Bros. Melee called wave dashing and wave canceling where you would basically do the same thing where you could kind of like manipulate the the button presses to like allow you to execute a movement faster because the mechanic of the game would make you like slide or trip or something and it wouldn't allow for inputs before you were standing still again but there was a way to sort

of like flick it so that you would be almost trip and then you would fall back and then you could do it faster and the pros just like i'm assuming in these fps games you basically have to do this if you want to be at the highest tier if you're a pro counter-strike player you know how to counter strafe and you've probably spent decades mastering it i mean it is something where pros aren't even doing it 100 of the time that's how like specific this is and because of that with keyboards there's been this new fad recently called hall effect which is kind of taking over the gaming keyboard space where instead of a metal pin that connects whenever each keystroke hits it's a magnet and you can adjust the activation point of where your

keystroke is. So rather than going all the way down to bottom out, 0.1 millimeters down now activates it. And it also has a cool thing where the minute you let go of it, it deactivates it rather than having to hit 50% up or whatever that is. That's one of the things that's helping this. I kind of want to do a short on it on the studio channel soon because they've become really popular. But Razer introduced this newer thing, which is partially the hall effect keyboard switches and partially a software where essentially it's only taking the last input that you have. So if you're strafing left and right with A and D, because WASD is your usual movement keys, you can press right and then tap A and it's now overtaken the d key

without having to have any travel for deactivation it essentially is creating a space that is impossible to overlap key presses which is the main thing making this really hard to do and timing i mean that's basically it it's really it's making a keyboard that is a couple hundred dollars and taking years and years and years of timing and practice and making it something you can do almost immediately. You still have to be good at the rest of the game, but it does break this point. It's like an ultimate disc that has special magnets

that only interact with your fingernails. So if your hand is in the right place, it'll snap. I was gonna make a devil's advocate sports analogy as well sure i'll try because i think in well okay this is a piece of equipment this keyboard and theoretically if everybody gets this keyboard then everyone's on the same playing field again which is funny because it reminds me of in golf there was a moment where there was these super have you seen these these like these belly putters that are extra tall? Yes.

And they will anchor it into their chest and use it as a pendulum. They got banned. Okay. But there was a moment where some golfers were using them and some weren't, and it felt like there was an animosity towards, it's kind of cheating,

I don't know, it shouldn't be legal, and now they got banned. But it's like, if everybody used used them we'd all be on the same playing field so is it cheating yeah like it's illegal the keyboard well that's the thing and here's one example that kind of makes this feel illegal is there used to be this thing called null canceling which is a script that people would incorporate into counter-strike i I mean, years and years and years ago, that would do essentially the same thing. But because it was a script, it was considered cheating and it was banned from being used in Counter-Strike games.

I don't know exactly how Razer is doing this differently. And in fact, since Razer released it, a company that made Hall Effect keyboards extremely popular, Wooting, almost immediately released a software update for all of their keyboards that does something super similar in a couple other cooler ways.

In software. In software, retroactively turning all of their keyboards into having this feature now. Yeah. So I'm interested in what happens. Is Valve itself going to ban this? What's going to happen? Are we in a pay-to-win kind of place?

Is there something that Valve could do to incorporate this what's gonna happen are we in a pay to win kind of place is there something that like valve could do to incorporate this already so everyone's on the same thing but then that also now sucks for these people that have spent i mean you still obviously have to have map sense and proper crosshair placement and all these different things to be good at the game but it's one variable that no longer matters as much it is and it's one that's like so specific to like taking yourself to the next level yeah it's one of those like super specific things you just learn for so long yeah yeah it's one of those things where like well this game is an online game most people are playing it online and so sure maybe for in-person land pro matches, you can ban these type of keyboards or say everyone has to use them, one of the two.

But when you just have your average player on the internet, you are going to be better than the people you're playing against if you have the keyboard. Isn't there a way for them to detect it though? I don't know. Because if I play like Call of Duty Mobile and I attach a backbone,

eventually it'll be like, it looks like you're using a controller. Like we're going to- Oh really? Yeah, we're going gonna like put you in a room with other people that are using controllers i i do that's a usbc interface so like it can tell i don't know about the keyboard not a usb well a keyboard i mean i don't know if the computer needs to like validate a serial number of a keyboard i think like the only yeah the only thing that the computer would see is like damn this guy is really good at taking his finger yeah because the input that's detecting on d that's why like it it was hard for them to detect scripts for a long time because it was sort of like manip it was like manipulating the key presses themselves i do think though so just to make sure

that this didn't feel like just really good marketing to make it seem like oh this is basically like cheating i went to the cs2 subreddit and there's a lot of people who seem to be pretty upset by this. So it does seem like a reasonable thing that at least some people are worried about. But they were saying that because a key can never overlap, the way you would tap

and do these different things is so perfect that if you were looking, it would be like the difference in milliseconds would be perfect every difference in milliseconds would be perfect every single time of you doing it so is that how they enable something like that because even in the best is so close and the best players are that there is some sort of variance in it but if you're always yeah but you could code that in well yeah i mean people did it was called null canceling and they banned it so like i mean the keyboard like if they update it also oh you're saying that you could code variants too you know you can make it so it's

like if it's between frames 7 and 14 you could just put it at different intervals between it every time yeah i don't know valorant you don't need to counter strafe in so it doesn't really matter i never learned how to do it i tried to learn how to do it is extremely tough i'm sure there's plenty of people say who say it's not that hard but those people have probably been playing counter-strike for like 10 years and i've learned how to games it's always it's counter-strike it's uh it's a super smash bros melee it's games that got released before you could just like patch everything a ton which counter-strike is online you can patch it but i think what's cool about though is watching the players who have been playing stuff like that for so long just be at an absolute next level that is

wild like even in just valorant which probably has like some incredible players who have been playing counter-strike before because it's similar there'll be days where i'm like damn i feel like i'm really on and i'll go into a match and just get crushed and be like i cannot believe there are people who make me look like I've never played this game before. Yeah, if you go watch Pro Super Smash Bros Melee, those people literally all day, like they're in the gym, will train movements

on the GameCube controller just like over and over and over again. Just like wave dashing and wave cancelling and like crouch cancelling. Pretty much. A lot of the stuff you have to get frame perfect on so it's just training your muscle memory and wave canceling and like until they become human macro machines pretty much a lot of the stuff you have to get frame perfect on so it's just training your muscle memory

as much as physically possible and this keyboard just does that does it for you for you without having to learn how much this keyboard I think it's 180 bucks suspicious I'm gonna be a pro player now just curious um 180 I think.

Yeah, 180 it looks like for the mini version. What will really happen here is the amount of people that this really does that much to will probably be super minimal because the majority of people buying this to feel like it's cheating will still suck at the game and all the other aspects of the game. If you can do this move, I'm not beating you anyway. you anyway like sure get the keyboard and let it help you out but there are probably some people level it's probably gonna suck there are people who are in like the top one percent that this might help get them into the top 0.5 percent or something like that yeah

probably not exactly there i think it's an interesting conversation of just like when is hardware gonna start doing too much and yeah what are the uh you can't like you can't just like when is hardware gonna start doing too much and yeah what are the uh you can't like you can't just like replace the entire keyboard industry overnight you know yeah well and if it gets to the point where the pros are like this one does actually help me better because even if pros are doing this 90 of the time this is 100 of the time yeah now does every pro have to use this keyboard or does every keyboard company have to incorporate this are we going to start banning hardware what's every esports team is going to be like pro have to use this keyboard? Or does every keyboard company have to incorporate this? Are we going to start banning hardware? I'm sure every esports team is going to be like,

we have to use Hall Effect switches. My guess would be it just gets banned. I think this specific software one gets banned. I think Hall Effect will stay in. Yeah. Because that's a little tougher and just a new technology. I don't know. I just thought it was interesting.

Also to note, a lot of nintendo switch controller update upgrades or better controllers are now using hall effect as well because uh the switch controllers famously the joy cons will start drifting because you do enough of these like movements on them and eventually the parts that are supposed to keep it perfectly centered will just kind of start moving to the side so hall effect is the same kind of update where it's using magnets instead so there's not a physical contact that is like forcing this drift to eventually occur so they last way longer hall effect is really cool in the keyboard community and it's super popular in like keyboard gaming community right now do Do you know why it's called Hall effect? I don't.

Essentially, when you have a magnetic field being intersected perpendicularly by an electrical current, you're going to have some of those electrons pulled to one side of the wire, just because of the Lorentz force. Now, when you have electrons on one side of a wire and not on another side of a wire, we can call that a potential difference, which we can measure as a voltage. So because the strength of that magnetic field is what dictates the amount of potential difference, it means we can measure the voltage

and know how far away those magnets are from one another. I hope that makes sense in the realms of a keyboard. Anyway, thanks for letting me nerd out for a little bit and back to the show. Anyway. Yeah, I think we've officially lost everybody. So it's time to wrap it up with trivia. And Halifax superposition.

Yeah. Trivia time. Dude. What? Trivia, dude. People on... Anyway, continue. dude what trivia dude and so people on anyway continue i don't know there's a nevermind yeah all right earlier this episode we talked about foldable iphone i know right um but apple is usually late to the game on display technologies. In this case, as of right now, they are 11 years late because in 2013 at CES, not Mobile World Congress, but CES, what display manufacturer, tech company extraordinaire gave a folding screen demonstration.

I feel like it's not who we think it is. It could be. I have a feeling. Or maybe it won't. Probably. I don't know if this helps or hurts, but the code name of the project was YUM. YUM?

Y-O-U-M. Sounds Korean. Youm. I'm going to be mad if this is the obvious one. Yeah, me too. Oh. All right. Who wants to read first?

I was going to put LG and then I put Royale. I put Royale. Spelledale spelled correctly though oh is it i think i hope it's correct i know you're right that's right marquez that's how you spell it uh i put lg but you have something crossed out on your board i was split between samsung and lg and i crossed out samsung and kept lg it was in fact Samsung. And you know what's hilarious? They gave a terrific demonstration of

all these folding screens. They even sort of crumpled one. They've done that like every year. The only phone that came out that they unveiled on stage that year was the one where the right side sort of curves over. Oh.

It's funny. Like, I know Royale was, like, way later with the actual folding one, but their booth always had, like, the one year they just had, like, this fake tree where all the leaves were, like, their folding, like, screens. And I was like, oh, maybe they've been doing this for longer than I thought.

I just didn't have enough fun. LG also makes a lot of weird experimental display tech, folding like screens and i was like oh maybe they've been doing this for longer than i just didn't have enough phone lg also makes a lot of weird experimental display tech so i kind of figured but samsung pretty much every year that i went to ces would always have like new versions of weird folding screens tcl has a bunch of weird stuff at ces too with like the trifold and your scroll i made all video on that yeah yeah rollable display it was like a it was a it was a accordion phone it was there's one that like yeah

oh there were two there was one that was a there was a like a roller that you press up like that and then there was the it was an accordion trifold trifold trifold trifold yeah I trifold. The trifold. The trifold. I actually think the rolling one was the coolest because it was like a normal phone and then

the right side would just like spin out and get like longer. It was sweet. The trifold is hilarious. The trifold was fantastic. That's how you get it. It's like a brochure. Yeah. Trivia, dude.

There you go, David. Thanks. Okay. So to answer the poll from last week's episode oh that's right we have to dish out a point i think i lost that one yeah well no spoilers the first comment first of all the first comment cole lewis 92, thank you for voting and commenting, said, the person that wrote the question loses three points. But then, James underscore David, thank you for commenting and voting, presumably three days ago, said, they took it from a pop quiz that Google themselves published.

So it was Google forgetting their own product lines. So Google loses three points. So Google loses three points is the moral of the story. Anyway, the answer with 54% of the vote is 54. 54%. That's close. Chromecast. No, that's not close because there's three people.

So you got over half of the. So even though it's wrong. No, no, no. A bunch of people said that the. Yeah, there was a bunch of like disclaimers. No, no, no. A bunch of people said the Chromebook Yeah, there was a bunch of disclaimers. No, no, no. A bunch of people said the Chromebook that Marques mentioned specifically

was never actually released as a consumer product. No, but the Chromebook Pixel was the correct... The Chromebook Pixel is the correct answer. True, that's true, yeah. I agree. But the people have spoken. David! Yes!

I guess you had like a developer's Chromebook or something? The CR48. Yeah, they said that it was a developers Chromebook or something CR48 They said that it was only given to developers Or something and never actually released So thank you everyone for voting And commenting It was fun to read those over the weekend Okay so now quick update on the score

Marquez with 14 Andrew with 13 And David With 15 Now we can get on to question number 2 Kez with 14. Andrew with 13. And David with 15. Let's go. Now we can get on to question number two. The DC-01 is a popular home appliance made by which company? Appliance.

Home appliance currently made. Oh, wait. Do batteries count as appliances? I don't know. They do not still make it. They don't? No. But they still very much? I don't know. They do not still make it. They don't? No. But they still very much make things in the same vein.

Do batteries count as appliances? No. Um. They don't make it anymore? It was the first thing this company, or it was the first of this thing that this company ever made that they would continue to make. Wait, was it? Wait, sorry. Was the question the company or the product? of this thing that that's this company ever made that they would continue to make wait was it wait sorry was the question the company or the product company

can i write the company because i wrote the product i gave you the product it's the dc zero the question is the product the category okay oh i know what you mean yeah yeah okay i'll allow it i'll allow it okay um all right three two one flip them and read what do you got but the general electric no i put general electric really both of you guys okay dyson correct i literally thought it was the first vacuum was the dc01 the dyson dc you know that i just heard d dyson that's it yeah honestly i almost didn't put it because we never mentioned dyson in this episode and usually pick a question we somehow mentioned dyson in every other episode but yeah like yeah i thought about that too i also thought it might have mandura cell that does sound like a battery that sounds like a like

the weird battery that's in your car key fob that you have to replace randomly. Yeah. Look it up. It also sounds like a teenage engineering product. It does as well. True. People are selling the original CR48 on eBay for $11,000. Oh my

God. Which is how you know it was never actually made as a consumer product. Yeah. Dang. Wait, you still have yours. I do. Time to flip it. Yeah, you should flip it.

But yeah, this one is four parts not working. Current bid, $11,000. What? Yours is working. I think. Maybe. I haven't turned it on in a while. Could be worth a million.

You know how I knew that about Dyson was that I'm pretty sure my vacuum was like DC07 or something. That was the hint I was hoping you guys would get that you all own current vacuums that it's similarly named. Got it. Can I round up the score before we take it home? All right. Count up the score. We have Ellis with carry the one. Google with negative three points. Marquez with 14. Andrew with 14. Andrew with 14.

And David in the lead. 15 points. Thank you, Google. This is a good, even race. Yeah. So far, anyway. Could be overtaken at any time. Yeah. Just wait. Trivia extravaganza.

Where the points don't matter and everybody loses. The points are going to come raining down. Bingo! I still think if we're tied, it should be a one hour long episode with one point up for grads. It's an hour long question. It's the SAT.

We all have to go with the SAT and whoever gets the highest score just gets one point. Your time to write your essay starts now. Well, with that, we will let you guys write your essays in the comment section instead. Oh, no. And feel free to like and subscribe and let us know. Other than that, catch us

quickly soon for maybe a bonus episode. That seems like a good thing you should stay tuned for. So keep an eye on your feeds, even if it's not always Fridays. Thanks for watching. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Catch you later. Peace.

Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro outro music was created by Vain Silk. Bingo. I got kicked out of calculus because I faked taking trigonometry and you didn't know well what I did was I took trigonometry through Stanford during the summer online but I didn't finish it and uh but I enrolled in calculus and I tried really hard and I failed everything and at one point my teacher was like David you didn't take trig did you