Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - What Does the iPhone Event Invitation Mean?

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about everything from the new Hasselblad camera to the upcoming Apple event! First, they talk cameras for a bit before going over some final thoughts of the Pixel 10 phones. Then they try to figure out what the Apple event invite could be telling us before finally talking about Hollow Knight Silk Song for a bit. It's a fun one! Links: Verge - Hasselblad X2D II B&H - Ricoh GR IV Team Cherry - Hollow Knight Silk Song trailer Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Damn. Hey, what is the people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Wayform podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. So, in this week's episode, we've got two new cameras that I'm not going to buy.

I'm definitely not going to buy them. I don't need them. Apple invites also went out. Taylor Swift got engaged. And we've got some final thoughts on the pixel tens. I'm surprised you want to talk about the Taylor Swift engagement. It's just kind of one of the news stories of the week, you know? It would be weird if we didn't.

It would be weird if we didn't. Andrew put it in the script to see if Marquez would say it. It's just one of those things. It's in every company. any slack. I promise. Didn't you say Verge in an article about which social media platform benefited the most? Yeah. There was an Instagram post. That's where most people saw it. There was a threads post. So the Fedaverse got some love. There was no Twitter post. Well, she's probably not federated. Something to think about. Yeah. Yeah. But actually first. Yeah. First, actually.

Okay. We, this got passed around our company Slack. And I guess was on the internet a little. I know David hasn't seen it yet. I'm not sure if everyone has, but apparently there's a French dub on one of our old videos, and it is bad, is the best way of putting it. Hilariously bad, broken. Yeah. Ellis, did you hear it? Miles, you heard it, right? Okay. Can you play this clip? I can't. Okay. This is Miles and David are hearing this for the first time. Okay. Oh, my capacity global of the battery, I don't know.

This is like a three-year-old video what I thought that sounded like. So what happens is, like, years ago, I mean, this is still true, but when we get a video dubbed in a different language, it is a downloadable audio track that we download and then upload for each language so they might have four or five languages per video and then we upload them and then you know it is what it is this is a much older video from from years ago that we like retroactively that's what i think it was decided to get dubbed i think it's three years old and i believe it was a company we were testing in the past we did some older videos to test it on missed that completely um it's not the company we use anymore this is actually a human dub, not an AI one. So I think it's a human and somehow the microphone he was using or how they exported it. It's just, I can't even begin to describe how it could potentially get to that

point. It kind of seems on purpose. If I was a human and I was like, I wonder if anybody's really listening to these. I would just make up French sounds and I would have the microphone as far into my mouth as possible. Gaming headset during an earthquake. Have you seen the top comment? I have not. It just says, happened to blast. Yeah, I don't know how people found this, but eventually people did find this, and yeah, we took it down because obviously it's not a good dub, but yeah, that was, sorry about that, France.

But also, that was hilarious. But that was pretty funny. Wow. Okay. First camera that I'm not going to buy. I'm not going to buy it. I don't need it. I don't, I definitely don't need it.

Cute the SpongeBob meme. Because, yeah, that one ends with, I need it. But it's the Hasselblad X2D Mark 2. Yeah. So I've reviewed one or two of these X, X1D and X2D Hasselblads in the past. Yeah. I really like them. I obviously don't need them, but they're just one of those things where, like, you know how, you know, you guys shoot film?

Tim shoots film. You guys kind of will go out and, like, leisurely shoot a couple things just because it's a hobby that you have. That was me when I had the X1D. I was just like, I, these are not photo. that I need. I'm not like going on vacation or taking photos of pets and kids. It's just like, I just want to take some pictures. And the X1D was awesome for that.

And it was notably slow, clunky, big, heavy, like had lots of downsides, but the process and the files that came out of it were very satisfying. The build quality on these cameras is just, like, every camera you get, there's some part that like rattles or like sounds columns of hollowy plastic i mean you've used a lot of really nice one so i'm sure you've used plenty of other ones that aren't like that man nothing about this is like they are the best built it's crazy it's really cool that they're able to put all of that build quality into like such an economical cheap package right it's still impressive look at 7000 it's still so it's cheaper than the last one yeah this is the thing in the past like i did enjoy using these

very impractical, clunky, heavy cameras, and they were super expensive. It would be like seven or eight grand for just the body, and then another 35, 4,500 for each lens, and they'd be primes, so you'd need two or three lenses, and it was obviously just like a horribly expensive hobby that I should not have gotten into, but I did. Fast forward to a couple generations later, X1D, then X1D Mark 2, X2D. This one, it's still medium format, still 100 megapixels. It's up to 15.3 stops of dynamic range. They will take true HDR images. It also has a tilting OLED EVF,

which gets up to like 1900 nits or something. It's like a really, really nice screen. I thought it was, sorry, the screen, right? The screen. I thought it was 3,000 nits. Either way, it's like, it's a great responsive touchscreen, which they've done really well in the past. Yep.

Has continuous autofocus. I'm not so sure about the LiDAR. I want to watch some reviews, but it has LiDAR for autofocus. And it has 10 stop five axes. this in-body image stabilization. Yeah. Which is ridiculous.

That is... Especially on a medium-format sensor. It's hard to explain how awesome that is, especially for shooting, like, this is a slow camera, but you still don't want to have to put it on a tripod every single time. Like, being able to shoot handheld is a really big deal. Yeah. And 10 stops of iBIS is pretty unheard of in any camera.

I haven't seen that in, like, R5-level cameras, like a medium-format sensor. No, it's ridiculous. One of my friends, Casey Kavanaugh, GX, Ace on YouTube, sent me a photo, 3.6 second handheld photo at night, and it was sharp as heck. So crazy. That on a medium format sensor that's 100 megapixels is really crazy, right? Like, you usually do not see that kind of tech in this kind of camera.

And they also added the light our auto focus, which is really awesome because their auto focus has been bad traditionally. And they lowered the price. It's like, it's kind of nuts. 10-stop survivors though you can do like you can do water on a waterfall being all like silky and smooth and stuff traditionally like the bigger the sensor size you go the more you have to shoot it like film because it's going to be it's going to have worse stabilization it's going to have you know if it's higher resolution then you see microshake more all this stuff but they kind of like fixed all of these problems in this camera yeah I know very little about cameras but three seconds handheld yeah three and a half seconds I think makes no sense that's Like, that is insane. Like, I was, there's times where I have a camera.

I'm like, damn, I wish I could go to like one over 30 right now handheld. Yeah, 10th of the seconds kind of push in it. And you're like, wow. A whole second, but three seconds is insane. Also, the true HDR is very interesting because this is the first camera to have true HD. We've seen, like, HDR in cameras before, but the way that that's done it is more of just the way that smartphones have generally done it, where they do image stacking and they kind of like crush the tone curve to make it all a midtone. This one just, it elevates the piece. like the highlights so that they get brighter they get physically brighter and the

the screen on the back of this camera is hdr compatible so when you take those images you can see the detail in that but it's brighter and if you put it on a compatible screen like a MacBook Pro you'll be able to actually see all that information yeah which is cool because traditionally like that kind of HDR has been very limited to smartphones and usually if you're taking photos like that on your smartphone you don't want to view them on your computer and just like kind of it just looks weird having it be that bright and everything and especially this kind of camera being in a raw file you can manipulate the shadows so

that they're not like jacked up but you can still see a little bit of detail but it's not just a midtown yeah anyway it's very good he's not clicking the buy button as you're talking I closed the BNH tab um yeah you also are right 1400 nits on the screen yeah yeah and also another one would bring up this camera is cheaper than the last generation by like 800 by like 800 bucks which is crazy because every other camera company right now is raising the prices of their camera. Fujifilm raised the prices of all of their cameras once, and the rumor is they're going to do it again.

This is all because of tariffs. And I think, because DJI owns Hossa Blod, so I think what they're doing is that they're trying to undercut the market, especially the medium format market, because Fujifilm had to raise the price of their GFX cameras, which have traditionally been the, like, affordable medium format by quite a bit, to the point where this is cheaper than Fujifx. films, GFX 100

Mark 2, which is kind of unbelievable because the build quality of this is better. It's got LiDAR now. It's got a terabyte of built-in storage. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. The lens is very expensive. It's $4,600 just for the new lens. The lens is interesting, though.

Yeah. The lens is super expensive. It's a 35 to 100, but on a medium format. It's like roughly the equivalent of a 24 to 70, and it's F28 to F4. So F28 at medium format is very shallow. It's pretty sick. like we're not going to ever yeah you're probably not going to shoot at two eight they also call it

compact that part which is why i put a picture right under that yeah yeah um yeah we'll say they reached out to me about this camera many many months ago like in march yeah and i sent an india about it and um then they said we'd love to get into your hands and in exchange we will give you the camera in exchange for the review we will give you the camera and then i said i don't do that and then they ghosted me. So that's the second time Hasselblot's done that to me, which sucks. But, you know, the sad part about that is that from everything I've seen from people that I do very much trust, everything about this camera is incredible. It seems to be, I mean, I've looked at, I was just scrolling through, like, headlines. I haven't watched any of the videos yet,

but just the headlines for people's reviews of, like, this is peak medium format, like Hasselblatt finally did it. It's a good deal at this price, like all these amazing headlines. So it seems like objectively a pretty great camera. I mean, again, like the Fuji GFX 100 Mark 2, I still really like that camera, but it is quite a bit slower than this now. This has better image stabilization. It has the HGR, all of these things.

And now it's cheaper, which is wild. Like when the rest of the entire camera market is being jacked up in price, the fact that they could make this even lower prices is wild. Well, it's too bad, Hustleblad, because it's not going to work on me. I'm not going to buy one. I'll check for the rest of the episode.

B&H. When he spaces out later, he's definitely buying. How much has that package just came. It's on your desk right now. I actually did open the B&H tab just to see. It ships mid-September. The sample photos from this camera looks so good.

The sample photos, if you're unconvincing, you're just listening to us talk about an amazing camera and build quality and blah, blah, like that's all, you know, maybe it doesn't speak to you. Maybe you're not a big photographer. But check out these sample images and tell me you don't wish you could

participate in an experience that has that sort of output. Yeah. That's sick. If you bought this camera, what do you think your shutter count would be on it after like a year of ownership? Did we mention Miles was on the podcast? Oh, hey, yeah. Miles is on the podcast.

Adam's sick again. That's a really good question. I think my shutter count would be something like, it would be under a thousand for sure. Total? It would be under a thousand photos. How many is that perfect? Until you just put it on the shelf? No, I would love it.

And I would, I mean, I'm not going to buy it. But if I did, I would love it and use it, and I would probably use it much more in the first few months of just, like, walking around with an excuse to just, like, shoot street photography or, like, shoot skylines or whatever. And then I would just occasionally bring it to, like, random events. Does that mean that's $74 a photo? Feels about right. Right? Or am I, no. I'm right in that, right?

That's about how much I pay for a thousand photos. So it would be $7.00 a photo. It's not too far off from what I pay for my film work. $7. Still not bad. Yeah. That's not bad. Film novels.

You're losing money if you don't. Yeah. You don't understand scale. Also, yeah, the look is so, the medium format look on this is so insane. And like the micro contrast. Haseblood has this special color profile that they call like Haseblood true color that they've had for like a really long time. And they don't do, they don't do like the film simulations like all the other companies do,

but they just have the one mode. And it's like Hossablad true color. color or whatever why is they top seller because people are buying it dude really oh my goodness yeah you better buy that fast you're saying if i don't buy it now it's going to get delayed or something that's not what i said mark is that what you're saying i did not say that i said a lot of people are buying it listen anyway their true color thing looks really really good and the micro contrast is made everything about it's great on hossobots website it's sold oh i mean oh he's on bnage oh man so i guess i probably should go to bnage anyway i just wish they would let me review this

without shilling for them. Well, that's why you have to join the rest of us and bullying Marcus into buying it. Any of us are able to get our hands on this camera somehow. It's sold out on B&H too. No, it's not. I'm on B&H right now. It's just not in stock yet.

It's not in stock yet. Yeah, that's why it says it got announced yesterday. It's like not out. I mean, you have to request a stock alert, which I feel like that you don't normally put on the pre-sealider. You can literally pre-order it and they'll ship it when it's ready. Or B&H just put top seller because they want people to buy it. Yeah.

Looking at Marquez's computer, he has it in his cart. He has the lens that costs more than my R5 Mark 2 in his cart. Oh, you? I haven't done anything about it yet. I'm just saying, like, if you really, really wanted to review this camera, or maybe even if, like, we wanted to see what some of those photos look like and maybe, like, had an event in mid-September that we wanted to take it to. Would we have it by then?

No. I don't know. It could. Maybe. Fair enough. Fair enough. Speaking of cameras, I guess, I would have liked a better segue from that. But speaking of a camera that did increase the price, the RICO GR4 got announced a while ago

and it was officially coming out. Here's the lore behind the RICO series. Okay. Yeah. So if you remember the Fuji film X100V, it was the camera that blew the heck up on TikTok. Yeah. Two years after it got released, ironically. And then when the X-1006 came out, that camera has been practically impossible to get constantly.

People went on social media with it because they knew that the X-100V was popular. So they thought, oh, if I post photos with the X-106 on social media, I'll get a lot of engagement. And then there's always a culture and a counterculture, right? So the culture at the time was, wow, look at my X-100 photos. And then a counterculture always pops up with the like, here's the awesome alternative to the thing that's popular. Sure. So the RICO GR-3 became the counterculture. The RICO GR-3 is even smaller than the X-100.

It is extremely pocketable, but it has a lot of compromises. Like, it doesn't have an electronic viewfinder, which is really hard for me because I like viewfinders. It does not have a tiltable screen on the back. The screen on the back is really crappy and pretty low-resolution. But it's one of those cameras that's like, it's truly a pocketable camera. Like, it's so thin and so small that it can fit

in your pocket, and the image quality once you pull it off of the camera and put it on the computer is really, really good. I'm looking at it, by the way, NBNH also says top seller. But lots of pictures of it being put in pockets. Yeah, so the GR3 became impossible to get, and then they came out

with the high diffusion filter model that we talked about a few weeks ago. Right, the grease on the lens model. Yeah, grease on the lens model, the on the lens model. And that was very popular. Now they finally are announcing the GR4, and they jacked up the price

by a lot. it is now $1,500. I had this whole thing I wanted to talk about with cameras where, like, we talked about the Sony camera that came out, the point-and-chute Sony that came out a few weeks ago, and that camera is like $5,300. And everyone feels very shocked by the prices of these new things, like, oh, these cameras are being so, there's companies are being so greedy, when in reality, I think that it's just the new normal for tariffs on cameras, because all cameras have parts that

are made in a lot of countries that are being heavily tariffed. yeah um and i think that that's probably a combination of why the gr4 is so expensive and that's why it's so surprising that the hossoblot is cheaper i'm like how did they lower the price here yeah yeah well it's impressive yeah they're assembled in sweden the hossabot camera so i assume sweden's not tariffed as hard as other countries but what does it uh gr stand for oh uh gazoo racing next that's what i was looking at i don't actually knew do you know I'll ask chat. It says the essential values of the GR series.

It's probably like, I want this. I mean, they're great. They're great. The new one, though, $1,500. Yeah, I know. I was looking up used GR3s in the HDF version, and I was also looking up used, like, X100 Vs. And then I was also looking up to like this a little different,

but like the Sony A7C is like super pocketable. Also, like, I like these pocketable take them along with me and like a little faster. So if I'm taking pictures of. lane or something yeah these seem really fun yeah can in r50 v it's like the non eva version of the r 50 non eva 750 dollars that's pretty good pretty good yeah other lenses that are like because you got yeah i got like a tiny pancake lens to match yeah yeah yeah the gr4 has a 26 megapixel apse sensor which is the same resolution as last time redesigned lens with an f2.8 aperture new

Autofocus and 53 gigs of built-in storage. So it's really not that different from the GR3. I'm not, I think they just kind of made it because there was insane demand for this kind of thing. To say it has new 5-axis shake reduction that compensates for six stops of camera shake. That's nice. Six stops.

Up from three-axis last time, but doesn't have any steps. Yeah, it's pretty good. And for something that's quick, pocketable, and like you're probably never putting this on a tripod. Yeah. That sounds pretty solid. Yeah. $600 solid?

I don't know about that. $600 price increase, yeah. That's a lot. $1,500 for a pocket camera is pretty insane. But here we are. Here we are. I'm having visions of making way more Instagram content if I had one of these cameras. So I actually saw these cameras in person for the first time a couple of weeks ago

because I didn't know they existed. And I was at B&H with some friends. And the build quality is, I don't know. I don't know. It doesn't look like it as a good build quality. No. Like to be honest, like it looks kind of, like it looks like a toy trying to look like a nice build quality. Is that the appeal?

No. I assume that's just like the sacrifice you make when before it was cheaper. Yeah, we have developed a spectrum of like cameras that people want. It's like you get the Haseabod if you're like a fine art photographer, right? And then now people are buying digicams. which is like the old 2000s point in shoots that they're buying because it kind of gives the like quality of like 35 millimeter film in a way but it's free and you can find it at the thrift store for five dollars sometimes now the ones that people were finding at the thrift store for five dollars

like 300 bucks on eBay so find a man baby but this is sort of in between where it's like it's not a bazillion dollars but it's not it's not five dollars and it's like good image quality but it's not fine art photography so yeah but it's pocketball anyway Fun to have some new camera stuff in the world. I could not find what GR actually stands for with, but I did find a hilarious thread from 2017 on DP review where someone like poses this question. They're like, what does the GR stand for in RICO GR? And someone says, Gestalt Rizend, which is German, gestalt is sort of means the sum, greater than the sum of its parts. It's not an exact translation, but that's sort of like the best one I can give you.

And then Rizend is German for like cute, charming. beautiful. And then someone else replied, like, I highly doubt that's what GR stands for, considering that this is a Japanese company, like, whatever they choose a German acronym. And then a third guy hops in. And it's like, actually, it's not that crazy. Like, lots of, like, there's lots of German influence in Japanese technology, especially in, like, the camera sector and, like, lists all these reasons why it might be possible. And then the original guy who said Gestalt-Risen was like, nah, I made that up. Source. I made it up. And then JetGPT was like, source.

This is true. Chap-G-P-T says, great resource, which I'm likely to believe, but also I'm not because of chat-G-T. My chat-G-T-said great-rico. That is also in this form, so it might actually be pulling from. The Rico, great-rico. Some people are saying Grand Rico, too, like Grand Seco is like the fancy line of Seikos. Well, speaking of cameras, again. Nice.

Yeah. No, we actually do have one we talk about. Have you guys ever heard of phone companies using fake images to hype their phone cameras? You mean every single launch that has ever happened? You mean how, like, a company will go, look at these images, they were shot on our phone, and then they weren't? I know it's hard to believe. You mean they would just lie on the internet? That's crazy.

Well, we have our newest installment of the most iconic duo of that. Nice. The nothing phone three demo. So apparently there are nothing phone three demo. So these are, I'm assuming, demos at stores that people use before they, and in those demo units, there is a page on them that says, here's what our community is captured with the phone three, and then lists five pictures. Shocking surprise. All of those five pictures are stock photos that nothing bought from a licensing website. And they found out because an anonymous source reached out to Android Authority first, I think, saying that was her picture showing the picture.

And then since then, they've contacted some of the other photographers, and they are not. One was even shooting on a Fuji X-2, X-H-2, which is like a $3,000 camera. Yeah. Yeah. This seems like the easiest rabbit hole to get caught going down. Like, someone just reversed Google image searches the links from your sample photos and goes, oh, this has existed online for three years. And then it's just on a licensing website.

Yeah. All of these photos were taking before the nothing. Phone 3 was announced. They were all from two years ago. Yeah. Notably, an employee from nothing, Akis has... Co-founder. Co-founder has explained his side of the story, basically, which is just that these were placeholder images that they needed to submit four months before launch and they just forgot to replace them. I don't know why you would go to a licensing website and pay for photos taken professionally as placeholders. I don't know.

I don't work for you. I don't, that's not a choice that I would make personally. Maybe just use other nothing phone images or something else. But the placeholders never got replaced. And oops, now people saw those images instead. You know, in the video game industry, when you need a placeholder thing, you usually make it as obvious as possible to placeholder. Like it'll be neon purple and say something like missing texture.

Yeah. So you think they would do something like that. Well, CNET did something like this once where it was like a phone review, and I guess to show their camera people what kind of footage they wanted of the phone, they put Marquez's footage in it and then publish the video. I thought it was, maybe that. It probably was, yeah. I don't want to throw one of those giant, it wasn't, but.

Yeah, yeah. But it was kind of weird going to my subbox and starting to watch a review of a phone, and then it cuts to a hand holding a phone in my studio. I'm like, I think, I think that that's my hand. Yeah. And now that I'm watching this, yeah, that's my footage. And then I emailed them and they were like, oh, it was a placeholder. We wanted to give door editors to replace later.

Crazy, crazy situation. But anyway. I just thought it was also funny that his response was, you know, he said new teams were involved. There's no clear reason to use this. This is a response to why don't you just use old nothing photos. So at least if you get caught, it was like something worse and not seeming as deceiving. Yeah, because they want to appear better. because they want to appear better

and he also in his original tweet was like everyone should post their nothing photos in here and he then goes on to say as you can see from the comment section photos captured with phone 3 are far more striking

than those stock images which is which you bought which you bought and are also taken by professionals with professional cameras so like it can be a good phone

you don't got to pretend that your nothing phone is better than a Fuji XH2 I don't even know what kind of XH2 yeah are we

40 megapixel In the era, finally, where there's no point in posting smartphone sample images and being like, because I feel like we sort of go through this every year with the smartphone camera test where it's like the differences are like so subtle. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do you think we're entering a point where this is not actually a feature differentiator between flagship smartphones? I do not. Obviously, there's going to be things like the Samsung has a big zoom lens.

that other phones don't have. Or, like, the iPhone has the camera button. Like, there are these little tiny sort of things. But as far as image quality goes, like not usability, but, like, image quality. Are we past this? So I think it's fair. I think there's two types of buyers.

I think for a lot of buyers, we are past this. I think they're all pretty good. And I think a lot of them just kind of go, oh, yeah, it's an expensive one, so it'll take good pictures. I think there is another more discerning buyer who still finds massive differences between a lot of these smartphone cameras.

if you're looking to evaluate that sort of thing. You're like, you can tell a Samsung picture versus an iPhone picture versus a pixel picture still to this day. And we'll talk more about the pixel and its camera a little bit later, but if you watch my review, it's like kind of a big difference

from some of the, like, if you spend more on a phone to have a better camera, you would hope that it would have a specifically better camera and it's kind of lacking in some of those ways. So I think there is a buyer that does still see a difference.

I think it is, think the blind smartphone challenge proved that most people don't give a damn but i think when you're the person spending seven eight nine a thousand dollars on a phone you want to have every little thing that you really like to like tell yourself it was worth paying for that i sort of agree with you ellis in that in that sort of thought process because like we've reached the point where i don't know nobody's very few people are trying to use their phone as professional cameras but they still care about the image quality but used to be that there were bigger gaps between quality so people would talk about the quality all the time and now it's sort of just one of those

things that's like you're most people just by the new version of the phone they've always had and so the people that maybe are thinking of getting something else or you know they want to justify their purchase they're going to say they care about those things do they actually I don't know and it's also and this is like a rabbit hole we could go down forever but like smartphone companies in an attempt to explain that the camera quality of their phone is better will always reference like it's good enough for professional see this professional uses it to do professional photos shoots and even though that's usually not how professionals shoot that is usually a pretty convincing argument for people yeah but it also kind of feels like sports equipment where it's like okay

yeah they're professionals they can probably get a good picture out of anything and between you and i like it doesn't matter what golf clubs i use i'm never going to beat tiger i should just get better at the thing instead of using better equipment. Yes. Also, I would make the argument that in most creative fields, like what differentiates, what makes gear truly professional gear is not necessarily like the total quality of media output.

Like, obviously that's important, but it's features that are really specific to doing it as a job. You know what I mean? Redundancy. Redundancy. Or like, a great example is like, I know lots of people that do sports photography,

that specifically shoot on Sony for no reason other than the menus are quick and customizable, and the burst mode goes crazy. You know what I mean? Crazy. And Sony's autofocus is very fast. Yeah, exactly. But it has nothing to do with, oh, like,

I'm sure if they shot it on a cannon or a Nikon, they would not pull the pictures side by side and be like, these Sony colors, man, they're so much better. No, they're going like, I can shoot 10 million photos with one burst and like. Yeah, job specific. And that will make my job easier. And I think, so whenever they make the argument, like, this is good enough for professionals.

It's like, no, it's not. It's not what a professional would use over anything else. Even if it did look as good. And the same is true with audio gear and everything. The statement, the choice of professionals would have a lot more weight than it's good enough for professionals. Yeah, exactly. The audio interface I have on my desk, I don't use it because it sounds significantly better

than other audio interfaces. I use it because it has two headphone jacks on the front, and that saved me a lot of time, you know? And that's what makes it good for professionals, not the amazing converters in it or whatever. Theoretically, smartphone companies should use pictures of everyday people taking amazing pictures of their kids and pets. And sometimes they do.

Yeah. But a lot of times when you go to like the $8,000, $1,200 phones, they start to go, all right, what's the differentiator here? Yeah, it's the eyelashes on the. Leopard. Yeah, like, the resolution is amazing. And it's like, well, I'm still going to be taking pictures of my kids and pets. Which is why, like, this nothing thing really isn't that giant of a deal?

Because, like, every single camera manufacturer company ever, when they post the pictures are unobtainable images to all of the people buying it because of the lighting and whatever. So this is just extra funny because it's literally not. Have you seen, have you ever watched an Apple keynote and looked at the photos that they share of, like, shot on iPhone? They're like in the middle of a desert with like perfect sunlighting and not a cloud in the sky and like this beautiful even lighting and you're like I've never been in a place like that I've never taken a photo like but you know what I appreciate about those photos they still have the distinctive like iPhone look where the shadows are too jacked up and you can see that it artificially lighten their face like you can tell it's an iPhone it's like okay yeah you went to a really nice environment you gave it to a competent photographer and this is a pretty acceptable like pretty good photo yeah but I know. know that it's an iPhone picture.

Yeah, and it'll be like staged models with colorful clothing and like a beautiful background and you're like, oh, I can tell it's on a phone. That's a pretty good shot though. Yeah, exactly. Like, all right. Nicely done. Exactly. Maybe these photos were taken on the nothing three.

They're just on the essential space on the stock photo website and they wanted to save them for later. So they took it with the essential button. Oh, ripping it from. They took a screenshot. They took the photo. Yeah, they stole the photo. There we go.

What even is a photo? You know what I mean? Don't even, we're not. Like, how is, how is AI, you know, changing the shadows different from just taking it on an entirely separate camera altogether, you know? This is the deepest rabbit hole there is. Can I hit the button? Yeah, hit the way.

What about, uh, I was going to reference the Sam Altman comment two weeks ago. That's what I was thinking. What do you say? Oh, well, on, on, on, so Cleo didn't interview with him. Yeah. On her show. And she says, isn't it like, aren't you worried about the fact that in like a couple of years, were not going to be able to tell like

what was a historical, accurate image. And his answer was well, you know, your smartphone, when your smartphone takes a photo, like, is that really a picture? And I was like, bro, that is the most bad faith statement you could possibly say. He used what is a photo on.

He did. He did. And I'm like, that's not the same thing. Like, one is a relatively accurate representation of reality that doesn't try to, isn't made up. Isn't inventing things. Isn't invent, yeah, it's inventing like shadow detail, but it's like a representation.

Anyway, we can go to trivia. It was a dumb response. It was a dumb response. Oh, my God. We didn't even, yeah. Press the trivia button again. No, no, we already played the music three times. I can just jump into it.

Guys, this first question is about hustle blot. Big, big, hustle, big, blog, big hustle, bigger blod, if you know what I mean. Guys, hustle, too, hustle, two, hustle, two blod. You could say we're all Hossel baddies today. I like Two Hossel, Two Blod, Gothenburg drift better, because Hosselblad was founded in Gothenburg, Sweden in 1841. Since then, what is the farthest place from Gothenburg, Sweden, that a Hosselblad camera has ever taken a picture?

You told me I would just know this. You would just know this. I have an immediate guess. Yeah, me too. The farthest place from Gothenburg. Wait, let's all say our immediate... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're right, I do this, actually.

No, no, no. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right, well, we'll think about this. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Framer.

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month of pro on the house. That's framer.com promo code wave. Framer.com, promo code wave rules and restrictions may apply. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best? You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead? Uh, Dave, you're Huff mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories.

Be like goldfish. Pumpkin is here at Starbucks, and we're making it just the way you like. Handcrafted with real ingredients like our real pumpkin sauce and rich espresso, sprinkled with pumpkin spice. It's full of real flavors you'll keep coming back for. Made just for you at Starbucks. All right, welcome back. We've got to talk about the pixel tens and pixel 10 reviews. They're out now. We've got a lot of thoughts. But first, I want to throw it to Ellis because I feel like we haven't heard your battery percentage in the minute. That's true. We've been forgetting. I've also been charging. We didn't, you know, it's whatever. Last night, I got absolutely roasted on my own Instagram story for, God forbid, posting a picture with my own phone in it. So yeah, anyone want to take yesterday? I woke up kind of late. The phone came off the charger at 8.30 a.m. And it's now almost noon.

It is now 1152. Yeah, so three and a half hours. And also, I might be switching to Android by the end of the week for a little bit. Say how long you last. Is that pixel related? It's not pixel related. It's my iPhone is officially crossed from like this barely works to like dead zones on the screen. Most things don't work anymore.

I'm going to guess your. So this is all to say, on the train, I'm reading on a one plus open right now. and my iPhone largely stays off in my pocket or screen off in my pocket. So you used your phone less today? Yeah, I pretty much, I take it out to tap on the, um, to tap into the subway and it goes right back in my pocket and I pull out the, the one plus open. I'm gonna guess 72. 72. 72.

42 for miles? 66. 66. 56. 56, despite not using it? Yeah. Oh man. That's where I was up until you said that.

David is the victim. We are at 70% this morning. I was not that far out. We're doing pretty good. You could make it until 4 p.m. if you were. I absolutely cannot. Yesterday, my phone died died at 1 p.m. It made it halfway through the day.

So much for all-day battery life. Apple, am I right? Damn. Yeah. The 12 mini, notably, was like the worst battery life. Did they ever claim all-day battery about the 12-mini? I'm not sure. Probably not.

I don't think they had it in their heart to do it. It would be tough. That would be tough. With MagSafe. You can top it up pretty quick. Well, speaking of MagSafe, I love this Pixel 10 pros. Yeah. Pixels 10 Pro.

I love the Pixel 10 Pro's MagSafe. Yeah. And by that, I mean PixelSnap, aka HE2. It turns out it's my favorite feature of the phone. Yeah. Is that a crazy take? No. It's awesome.

Yeah. And that's, I mean, so there's a lot of people who don't have a bunch of magsafe accessories sitting around. They don't have a bunch of wireless charters and stuff like that. But as someone who does, wow, it's been awesome. and even if you don't, the world of accessories open to you now because of having Che2 built into the phone and not needing a case is amazing.

Powerbank, stand, wireless charger, phone mount in your car, it's great. So that's a high that we can start with. You've been testing a Pixel 10 Pro as well. Literally the same spec as me. Is that right? The Moonstone 10 Pro 128. How's your experience been?

It's been pretty good. We talked a little bit before about how, Google is like really building out their ecosystem to basically match Apple almost exactly you made a video about that last week even today and I guess they were already selling this when you would buy the phone but they officially announced it today I believe they have now basically Apple care it's called pixel care plus so yeah it's the same nice yeah and they basically have parity with everything the one things that have been annoying me and I will say

I've been mostly on an iPhone for the last year, which I do not like about myself because it made it. The longer that you are on iPhone, the harder it is to switch back to Android. The more hooks they're getting you. Yeah, just like the amount of friends that have just like been really actually mean to me about.

It's like we have our, guys, I advocated for RCS for years. We finally got it and it works great. But the bubbles are still green. She literally was like, the color. And I was like, I, anyway, that's a whole lot of I thought you were dead this morning

when I text you like, hey David, do you want to carpool in this morning and my text is green? I was like, Jesus, what happened? Yeah, the one thing that I miss the most I would say is is face ID being being infrared. Because when I try to turn this on and it's low light,

it's like, oh, I can't see your face. And then I have to go through the... And I've also had some interesting sort of like touch problems where I touch in an area and it doesn't really register it as well. I want to ask you a couple questions about your use Because as of right now, as of the time of recording, it's Wednesday And I haven't fully shot and edited the review yet

But I have all of the thoughts that I'm putting into the review Okay One of them is the GPU on tensor is not that great Yeah And I have you switched your phone So it's the pro so it's already 120 hertz But have you switched to max resolution or high resolution? No, I've not changed anything

So by default it stays a high resolution I was using it high resolution It was pretty smooth I switch it to max resolution and it started chopping a little bit. Oh, really? And I was like, that seems not great for a brand new phone. Yeah.

So that's one thing. Yeah. How's your battery life been? Not as great as I sort of was expecting from the TSM, you know, change. I will say, though, I was on a 16 Pro Max. So, and even that on Liquid Glass was like, that was horrible battery life for that. But it's been a little bit worse than that. So I'm ending a day with like 12% or so.

which at least you can get through. Yeah. But I was kind of expecting, like, really, really good battery, considering the TSM change. Yeah, I've bounced back and forth between great battery and good battery. Okay. I've had a day where I had over six hours of screen on time and, like, 18% left. And I've had a day where, I mean, the earliest days I can't put as much stock into because the phone's still sort of, like, finding its footing.

But with this adaptive battery, I think I've had a day where I had, like, five hours and it was about to die. So good to great. Sometimes. Yeah. And then just in general, like the software, I really like it. It's still a pixel. That's still my good news thing. I think my overall thesis with this review, this is maybe the TLDR since the review is a separate longer video.

Yeah. But the TLDR is the pixel is still the pixel. It's kind of a finished thought for now. Yeah. Like they're not doing any massive revamp of like, oh, we did massive camera sensors or really fast charging or anything. They're not doing anything crazy. Yeah. Not changing anything massive.

Pixel is still a pixel. It's still got the software. It still got a pretty good camera with a lot of AI stuff. And they're trying to make the leap to the masses with this phone. And this year that looked like Jimmy Fallon, Jonas Brothers, PixelSnap to be MagSafe, like directly bringing in normal people who may probably already have an iPhone and showing them all of the ways that it's easy to. to switch to this song.

And that's what's happening with the pixel. And it's like, okay, I wish the tensor G5 was super powerful and like turned over a new leaf and suddenly has an awesome GPU, but it's just not. Yeah. And that's a bummer for people like me, but yeah. It's still fine.

Have you used any of the new software features? A bunch, yeah. Okay. Did you get the email about how you need to like not be in the beta for Google messages to be able to. Magic Q. Yeah.

Yeah. Have you tried Magic Q? I've tried Magic Q. Very mixed experience with that. I've been prompt like prompting myself through text messages from another line, like setting it up to work really well. Yeah. And like seven times out of 10, it kind of doesn't do much or it'll just give me like a link to open a different app where I can find a relevant information. Ah. So I'll ask like, when's your flight next week? And it'll be like open the calendar right here instead of the prompt it's supposed to give me with the actual flight info. Yeah. And then one or two times out of 10, like we got it to actually work when you text. You asked it a very specific question about a flight that we knew we had next week. Yeah. Instead, it answered by giving me my flight this week. So it had like the button there to like ready and auto fill, but it was the wrong flight. That's almost worse.

It's worse because when you press it, it doesn't auto fill. It sends. It doesn't know you edit it. Yeah. They should have long press to like give a suggestion, tap to send, long press to like just bring into your like messages. Well, think about this, too, because, like, flight numbers are the same every day. So if it says what was your, if you say what was your flight number and it grabbed your flight from last week,

and you, I mean, you don't know whether or not that's your flight number unless you actually go check it in the thing. So if you send the wrong flight number, you're not going to know, and then you give them wrong information. And that's where these LLMs, like, have problems. Yeah. We've seen multiple times at pulling, like, the wrong event from your calendar or, like, from your email, like, oh, my haircut last week. Like, what time did I get that? And it'll pull it from a month ago, you know? Yeah, it was weird that it did it, because next week seems pretty obvious,

especially because it's Wednesday today and it pulled Friday. So, like, it should definitely know it's the following week. Right. Maybe if it was like a weekend, it would be a little confused. Yeah. It also, it doesn't send the flight number. It just sends the date and the time that you're supposed to be flying. Okay.

Which when I ask you about your flight, I did say, what time is your flight next to you? So maybe we could try what's your flight number. This one that we got to work said, when is your flight next? week. And the tap that I could immediately click on with Magic Q would send the time and date of my flight this week. And no flight number. Can I see this for a second? It's just annoying because the thing says like 9-1, 2025 and then says like where you're leaving from where you're coming to. But when you press it, it only does the date and time. Yeah. Which would be nice to say where it was going. Like you can give a little more information. I'm not typing it.

I will always give more information if I don't have to type it. It'd be great if it said flight number like all sorts of different things because Claire all the time will be like hey can you just send me your flight number like yeah so I can see if it's on time yeah so I can see if it's on time

or just to make sure like just in case anything would happen so if I could send her when we were leaving where we were leaving like the whole flight card I know it's pulling from that would make way more sense I just texted you what's your flight number for your flight next week

okay see if it my thing also is when I was typing this I was like, is this how I would actually have a friend? So it gave you the actual flight number? It gave me my flight this week, but it gives me the flight number. And if I tap it, that's my flight number this week. And I'd have to edit it. Did it tell you that it's for this week?

I recognize it as this week because of the destination in the magic cue card. Oh, okay. So I know that it's the wrong answer. Okay. But it does give me the cue to hit the flight. At least it gives you the context and stuff. Yeah, I think this one over here is next week. Can you tell me this week?

and next week. Real quick, can you say, like, when is your trip next week? I want to see if it's going to... Just when? Yeah. Okay. When is your trip next week?

Because I don't think... I was typing very specifically trying to trigger it. But do I think all the people... Like, when we talk about search engine, like, our own type of, like, search engine type, now this is other people coming to you.

So what does it say? Yeah, it's pulling from my Google calendar and it's viewing my... calendar event of drive to the studio in the morning as my trip for next week and it's just putting 8 a.m. tomorrow morning as my trip. This is for next week. You know, it's a playoff of what Ellis said last week about none of the stuff works. In the like perfect orb of like Google land or open AI land where all of this AI stuff actually works. Yeah, you can see the appeal. Yeah. The problem is none of it when it, at least by the time it ships and usually for a couple of years later,

actually is like, works reliably. It's definitely not perfect. Yeah. I like your, like, their analogy is always, it's your personal assistant you don't have to pay before. If you had an assistant and said, when is my trip next week? And they said, you're driving to the studio tomorrow morning.

Yeah, that would be like a horrible response. Yeah. But I can see like a trajectory where in the future they can update this and tighten the strings and it will be a helpful assistant. So that if someone's like, when's your flight next week, they can send me the flight time, the flight number, the flight destination just to make sure everything's working, and then it all is super useful for me.

My other question is, will this be able to pull from multiple email addresses? Because if I don't put everything in my calendar, I'm still getting flight stuff to my possibly work email versus Google messages is logged into my personal email or hotel reservations might go to my work email? It's probably from all of your Gmail account. Magic Q is, I mean, this is a setting in the phone. So I assume it's going to pull from every Google account I'm saying to, but it's unclear. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, have you tried the conversational editing? Yeah, that bangs. Bangs. It works. Nice. It's really good.

Yeah. It's kind of shockingly good, actually. And my question is, is it going to do videos at some point? Mm. Because that would be. Probably. That's probably next year. Yeah.

The conversational editing is literally just semantically parsing, like, the actions I'm asking for. Yeah. and just doing the edits for me in Google Photos. I think this is going to be available for everyone at some point. But as of right now, on the Pixel 10, I open up a photo, I hit edit, and I go, like, delete the car in the background and make the sky more blue. And then give it, like, five seconds, and then you just have a photo with the cars deleted in the sky more blue and just did the edits for you.

That might have taken some time if you had to do it manually. It's kind of the equivalent of now that the tensor is so good at voice texting. it's like, I want to voice text more because it almost texts at the speed of thought. Yeah. So if you can do that for editing, especially if something you're just quickly editing on the phone, you might as well, you know. It's a really good point. It's literally the best thing about Gemini Nano on the device and like tensor and the TPU and everything is voice texting. Yeah.

Is incredible on this phone. Yeah. So if you're under that. Tensor upgrade for sure. Yeah, that's pretty sick. For sure. Yeah, I don't know. I think overall it just really feels like they finally, like the headline.

for the pixel has always been the iPhone of Android literally since the pixel one, but it feels like they actually made their iPhone now. Like, everything is parody, so more clearly than ever. Yeah. I do want to spend a beat on the camera because we said we were going to get to this. Yeah. I think the wides, so first of all, triple cameras on the base phone is like the big deal with the cameras.

Yeah. The pros have bigger sensors, but it's the same focal lengths for a wide and ultra wide and a telephoto. the zooms I've taken have been a letdown and I'm curious if you found the same thing because it's a 5x optical which to me means everything between 1x and 5x is a little bit suboptimal

then you get to 5x and it's good and then for me 5x to 10x is pretty good and then beyond that it tries at 30x to do the pro res zoom thing and I was comparing it to just the iPhone which is not that great of a zoom and I was comparing it to the S25 Ultra which is a great zoom

and it was getting beat by both and I just felt like a watercolory softness to every Zoom photo I was taking. And to be fair, maybe you don't take that many Zoom photos I just was, I felt like the future was encouraging me

to take more Zoom photos so I was taking them but it was, that part did let me down on the Pixel. Yeah, it definitely feels soft. Yeah. Pixel and Ultra Zoom or some sort of mega zoom and not being great.

It definitely feels like Google in particular wants to flex their air. filling features so much that they don't care as much about the optics anymore for the actual you never really cared about the optics yeah kind of struck gold with the older sensors and their processing and having like an early pixel that was like dominating had contrast but it's not like they were winning because the sensor was amazing they're winning because their image processing pipeline was dod tier and then you know they did eventually upgrade the sensors and they're bigger sensors now but they're they're not like winning the same though exactly

They're not winning because their hardware is amazing. They're just still doing Google stuff with the camera. Yeah. So that's still true. Pixel still Pixel. Yeah, I just, I was not super impressed with the cameras overall. Like, this is just like a, it's a 5X zoom photo of this bird. Yeah.

And it's, it's a bird. That one's pretty solid. It's kind of. It's okay. It's like there. But you compare this to any Chinese phone that's out right now, and they blow it away by far. Yeah. And this is a $1,000 phone, to be clear.

Like, I'm comparing it to iPhone 16 Pro, another 1,000. phone, which doesn't have that much emphasis on Zoom and it gets beat. I'm comparing this to, like, Chinese phones that are 900 to $1,200 to $1,200 that are spanking it in the Zoom department. So if you care about Zoom, I would say the pixel is going to be a letdown for you. Yeah. But normal wides look really good. Yeah.

Which is nice. But, like, fine detail in bouquet, you zoom, like, you crop in at all and just falls apart. The boke in the background looks like really kind of gross and artificial. And I don't know. It's funny that the pixel went from, like, the camera phone to now it is. the smartest phone yeah but the camera is like an afterthought yeah it turned out it was the camera phone because it was the smartest phone yeah true yes it's just kind of sneaky yes it turns out that's why yes so i mean that makes me feel better i ordered the regular 10 but like the biggest

thing between the two one of them seems to be like the new sensors on like the telephoto and the ultra wide and if they're really not that great anyways then i think and you're okay with 60 hertz it's not 60 hertz isn't it it is 60 by default but there's a box to check it Yeah, it's like adaptive. Yeah, adaptive. It's not one to one. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, I'm out of TIO.

Yeah, yeah. I shouldn't say that. Yeah. And then, I mean, it's got a better selfie. It seems like all of that. And what I didn't realize last time we talked is I thought the pro started at 256. It doesn't. It's $9.99 at $1.28, which I think is a travesty.

The pro Xcel starts at $2.5. Yes, which is, so I like bumped up to get $256. On the regular one? On the regular one. Here comes the price ladder. But it still would be a price ladder, even if you went regular $7.99, $256.8. But no, to get $256 Pro is $200 more than that. Yeah.

Stupid. Wait, really? Well, because then it's $1099 to get. Oh, my goodness. It's good $999, $1.28, $1099, $256. Oh, my goodness. So, yeah. And also, lemongrass is the best color by, like, a long shot.

Please mute both of their microphones. Unreal. Hot take. I'm immediately getting the D-brand ghost case to keep. is to keep, so I can show. You really got that loving grass? Hell yeah, I'll show you right here. Oh, my goodness.

I do think the thing that we said for a couple years about the pixel, which is the gap between the pro and the regular phone, is pretty small. It's so small now. Really makes the regular phone feel like a good deal. And the pro phone specifically, when compared to the base phone, I feel like not that good of a deal. The fact that this is now a $200 delta, though, instead of a $300 delta is a pretty big deal. back on the pixel six and pixel seven the reason we were saying like you're not getting 300 it was 300 bucks right the base yeah the base was such a good deal was the best deal i'm happy about that

it's like one of the best deal phones out there yeah but it just made the pro seem like not a good deal you know what i mean yeah but even now today like okay what's the difference between the pixel 10 and the pixel 10 pro bigger sensors on all the cameras better selfie camera LTPo slightly brighter slightly higher res, slightly smaller battery. Yeah. There's like, there's a pro-res zoom instead of... Yeah, pro-camera features. Which you may use sometimes.

That's a pro-than-that. Pro-model should be that. Pro-model should be, there's one thing I really, really want. That's better, so I'm going to go. Most people in most situations should be buying base models. Yeah, and I think Google probably knows that because the phones that sell the most volume, like in the United States are really, really cheap phones. right it's the iPhone and then it's the Samsung's and then after that it's always been like

Motorola and and and uh Alcatel or whatever you know it's like the pay as you go like super cheap stuff and so if Google is able to be like hey you can pay $20 less a month and it's basically what you'd need then that's a really good model for them so yeah yeah um speak you phones we're we're already moving on to Apple yep elite transition there you go last talk about for the rest of the year. I'm sorry. I need to help clarifying something before we leave pixel.

Sure. Why does Google call it lemongrass and everyone else calls it lemoncello? That's what their old yellow was and we were just all calling it lemoncello

before the official thing came out. It's a more fun word to say. Sorry. You heard everyone in here talking about it because that's what the last time it was called. I've been confused as heck.

Yeah. I think lemon cello is more is better. Yeah. Yeah. Also, that's the color that this actually is. I mean, it's not. It's pit.

I need My man You need some more water But yeah Yeah if your Or doctor probably Anyway Dr. Pepperman over here

I'm not doing enough Water runs out of Well Okay so we'll have the full Pixel 10 review shortly Yeah But we are already

moving on to iPhones Because Apple has officially announced The iPhone 17 launch event For the day We all knew it would be Which is September 9th Do we get to

overanalyzed invitation now so apparently and i haven't done this yet and maybe we should just do this live if you go to the invite on safari any web browser it's if you just go to apple dot com okay so if you what we're seeing right now is the invite is called it just says apple event and it's got this liquid glass iPhone above it was sort of this rainbow almost serious thing on it i would call it it reads heat map it's like it's like thermal imaging yeah apple logo yeah and like it's a heat map Someone's ever seen a thermal camera before, and it shows. Yes, I thought you were the camera boy. Yes, I have.

Yeah, specifically heat map also because when you move your mouse around it, it shows the red, like, it's heated up where the mouse is going. I don't know what that. It means that it gets really hot. All we know is it's awe-dropping. That's the tag phrase. Sometimes it's really obvious, but awe-dropping and the heat map. A-dropping is very generic.

I don't know what to make of awe-dropping, to be honest. I think it just means amazing. Yeah, it's like a generic like jaw-dropping. Yeah, aw-dropping is not a phrase. This might want inspiring and jaw-dropping combined. Do you think it's just jaw-dropping, but-aw-inspiring and jaw-dropping combined into one. Do you think this would be the best iPhone they've ever released? No.

According to Apple, yes. That's where they want us to be. I did hear it's going to have all-day battery life, though. Dude, all day. Yeah, because there won't be a mini version, that's what. That's crazy. I think someone has at some point compiled, like, all of the previous Apple events, and then what the major announcement turned out to be

and how it's connected to the teaser. Right. I'm very curious how this heat map is going to translate to whatever we see at this September event. This is a live heat map of the 17 air. What if it has a temperature sensor? The thermometer, like the pixel. Wait, does the pixel?

It does, but only on the pro. I literally forgot about it. The funny thing about it is we all missed in the leaks when we were wondering if it was the base or the pro. None of us here clocked that there was a temperature sensor on the back of it and it was the pro. We got torn apart for that one. Hear me out. That's how much we remember. There's a temperature sensor, but it's built into like the combo like antenna frame of the phone.

And so to use it on food, you need to fully insert your phone into the meat. IP 68, baby. That would be wild. Yeah, I really don't know what to make it a. temperatures. Let me look at the comments. I tweeted this invitation and nobody really said anything about it. I tried to, I read a few articles and there's very few, almost all of the ones previously were like, this and this are the teasers. This is obviously what they mean. And I just didn't see that. I could have missed it. People are saying thermal camera. That is the most

useless thing anyone could put in your phone. I don't understand. Yeah. Literally what would be the value of that? Really cool looking photos. You could pretend to be Brock Hampton. I mean, You could see a potential gas leak in your house with your iPhone. Oh, that's a good. That's a perfect phone. Could you do that with a thermal camera? Remember the cat phones had this? Thermal cameras, yeah.

Or you could go, you could buy like a Fleur camera and like look at infrared or and see like things that were hotter with the heat signatures. Yeah. There are types of thermal cameras that can do it. Oh, the, the vapor chamber rumbers. Well, every. So the phone. Oh, because. I don't.

I don't think previous iPhones had vapor chamber cooling. So the new one was going to have vapor chambers with the air probably won. I stole this idea from Mac Rubers. I'm not that smart. Oh, did you look at what people think it is? I Googled Apple Event, HeatMap, Thermal. I'm going to ask Chat, CPT. I'm going to feed it a picture of the invite and ask it what it thinks the hidden feature is going to be.

I'll report back. I like that. Yeah, anyway, we are expected, obviously, to see the new pros that look like pixels. It all comes round, you know. Google tries to be like Apple. Apple tries to be like Google. Now we are at the singularity. And we are obviously supposed to see the iPhone 17 Air as well.

Which someone had asked me, do you think that they are making the air just sort of as a way of prepping for the foldable iPhone? I see stuff like that also, and I don't make the connection. I could see, like, they needed to engineer a lot of thinner parts, and so they have gotten to that point, but they're still working on the foldable, so they're like, well, we might as well make use of this. I guess the funny thing, have we confirmed the air? I guess it has to be thinner, right? Oh, yeah. It's the whole thing. I mean, the pick, the camera's totally different.

Okay, JetGBT has done an interesting job here. Jaw-dropping design. Aw-dropping is basically talking about the air is going to have this jaw-dropping super thin design. Yeah, 5.5 millimeters, the thinnest iPhone ever, it drops your jaw. That's what they're saying. And then the color palette, they're saying because the heat signatures are kind of between blue and orange, those are the two new colors of the iPhone Pro. The blue and the orange. Remember you've seen the teasers?

And plus liquid glass. But that doesn't help when it goes to red on the heat map. Yeah. It's a very redish, though. Can you follow up with it and say, so why does it turn red when I drag my mouse around it? I think it's not seeing the animation. of that. I also don't get how jaw-dropping means iPhone air.

Because it's going to be so thin, you're going to be un-eating. They're going to make a big deal about how thin it is. They should have called it jaw inspiring. Jaw-inspiring. Inspired by your jaw. Oh, man. Is that our title for the Apple episode?

Jaw-inspiring. The jaw-inspiring. Which, by the way, we are going to be doing a podcast at Apple Park about this. We will be out there this year. Are we publicly announced that right now. It won't be a live, like, thing. Yeah.

We will, our goal is to do a podcast out there at some point in some place. Well, no, we're going to say it, guys. Let's put some enthusiasm on it. We haven't locked down the details yet. Wait for, live, not live, taped from Apple campus after the event.

Definitely say too. Next week's episode is going to be awesome, or whatever, two weeks from now, that's going to be awesome. But, uh, yeah, chat GPT says it's coded, uh, vapor chamber iPhone 17 pro, so. Who cares about that? Does anyone care about that? David, you've been talking about how hot your iPhone is for the past six episodes.

Yeah, because liquid glass. I think that's poor efficiency. Oh, that's one of those things. That's one of those things Apple does. They will come out with a new software feature that ends up being way better on the newer phones. And so even though you have the software feature on your current phone, you still want to upgrade because that vapor chamber is going to make my liquid glass run all day. Are you saying the iPhone 17 is built for liquid glass? Yes.

They will say that. That's exactly what they're going to do. Built for liquid glass. And it's going to have all day battery life again. You know what they're going to say? They're going to say, liquid glass uses this many rendering engines and it can get quite hot because it's marveling the beauty of the liquid glass. With iPhone 17 Pro, we've built this specifically for liquid glass.

I would even bet that there will be special liquid glass animations that are enabled by the vapor chamber on the 17 pros. That's a lot of processes. to not be able to read things on your own page. Yeah, super, super niche possible bet that I'm willing to make. Marketing. If you lose, you have to buy Asclebleth.

I am honestly excited for vapor chamber cooling, not because I use liquid glass or want to, but every time we go outside to shoot an autofocus video and we have something connected to the USBC port, you notice how the brightness on the screen just drops to like 2% because it's cooking after like 10 minutes of usage. So I actually, this does actually have real world application for me that I'm...

That's actually very fair. And, you know, if we want to talk about like the quote pro iPhone and how people like use it for their job, we use these phones to shoot videos and one of the most common issues with it is they overheat after a while and this would make it easier to shoot for a long time in hot places. It's more surprising that they didn't have it before because every other smartphone has had some sort of insane cool. solution so and then I go talk about like gaming performance and stuff yeah what do you down with who other ones yeah red magic this is the first time also that you could be talking about the new iPhone with your buds and if your mom found your phone she would think you were talking about

drugs like like your mom finding your attacks on your phone that's like oh man like I was so excited to hit to use all this liquid glass but my vapor chamber hasn't come in yet My vape chamber. My vape chame. Sick. It's like that. I won't bring that. Adam's going to cut that anyway.

Yeah. No, it's funny. Yeah, but not to Adam. Well, one more quick, one more quick iPhone-related headline before we take a quick break, which is, I don't know if you guys saw this. There's a Bloomberg, I guess it's a rumor because it's not really. It's also not, though. We'll bring it first and then we'll. Yeah.

So, allegedly, Apple is in discussion with Google about using Gemini to, power this revamped Siri. So as we know, Apple's been working on this revamped Siri powered by LLMs for a while, still not out. One year. Is it over a year? Well, the next event will be one year because the iPhone 17 was built for Apple Intelligence. Right. So it's been a year since then. But even Dubdub was, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Dubdub was when they announced it. So it's been over a year since they showed it. Yeah. And we still don't have this new Siri, right? So we're all kind of wondering when

it's going to come out. How hard could this be? What are their holdups? What is the progress they're making? They're not going to tell us any of this. stuff but this conversation of like maybe we'll work with google and then jemini will power it is it kind of reads like an april fulls day headline like really we're gonna ask syria and syria's gonna just do more google stuff what like how the whole apple and syri thing and being focused on privacy seems like it does not compute with working with google i don't know they're a weird head floundering for sure i've heard from multiple people inside of apple that like People are getting moved around different teams that were working on certain teams.

They're all getting moved to, like, the Siri team, and they're just racing to do these. There's been all these leaks and rumors that they're thinking about buying Anthropic, and I think you're doing this. And I saw that, that's all recent, which means that, like. Which means they're not going to, they're not done. They're not close. And it's, how did they announce this a year and a half ago when they were this far behind? Yeah. Well, I don't think they knew they were this far behind, but now they do.

Well, so if you'll remember, there was this special, like, if you were at, the event they had this like kind of sit down thing with i justine last year where she asked them some questions and they said that she she said like are you exclusively working with open AI about you know the using these LLMs and they said oh no we're we're like looking into working with Gemini as well so they clearly already had said publicly that they were they were going to have an option eventually to it was like the or like the chat GPT yeah do you want to Ask chat dbt. They said eventually we're going to be able to do you want to ask Gemini instead.

But now, I mean, it seems like they need to use it for more than just that. Yeah. Yeah. That and that's, there's a whole bunch of questions about like how, if you work at Apple, we probably think about this, like how do you see the future of people talking to LLMs? Will they be actively switching between models consciously or should there just be your model and your model can do everything for them? I know when I'm in Raycast, I can switch between.

Gemini and, you know, chat GPT for different things because I know one does something better than the other, but do we want regular people doing that? I don't know. But that's also the model that like goes to the internet and tries to fetch information, whereas the, the Siri model was supposed to be the model that controls the phone that knows what you mean when you say, hey, what time is my Uber going to get here so it can reach inside of Uber and tell you that information. That local model, it's like Gemini Nano. It should be able to like run on device, run quickly. So is like Siri AI just going to use Gemini Nano? Which would be really funny, but it's like, if Apple's not a really, really heavy AI first company,

maybe they're having too much trouble shrinking their model to be totally on device to do that type of stuff. Maybe they actually do need that type of help. Yeah. Who pays who in this scenario? In this one, because it's not going to be coded and say it's Gemini, I assume, it's probably Apple paying Google. Yeah. Yeah, but I guess if Google knows it gets all. of the data

they will they can't I don't think they can either but I think it'll be model it won't that data won't go anywhere yeah it'll be like Apple buys this technology the license Google or something yeah they get to use it and run it locally

yeah I think another interesting little tidbit of this whole saga for Apple has been the papers they've been publishing because they run a machine learning lab and let me make sure I get this title right the big paper that made the big splash was from June of this year called The Illusion of Thinking

that was comparing LLM and LRM's ability to solve different complexities of tasks. Large language and large reasoning, right? Yeah, yeah, larger language model and large reasoning model. And it's pretty critical. It's pretty like we are, you know, these things are not as powerful as we want them to be. They put out a paper last week that was kind of interesting that I only skimmed. Yeah, me too. I summarized it with chat GPT.

It's called the superweight in large language models, and it's about how with LLM specifically, you can severely alter the outcomes by changing only a few weights. Even if there's millions of different parameters in their models, you can change like five or six weights and like have it give a completely different answer. Anyway, this is all to say, to me, when it's like they're like pushing and pushing this back, it feels like because Apple has slightly different standards for what like a working product is, than the rest of the tech industry, they themselves, they're starting to realize, like, oh, we're not, we're not ready. It's also one of those things where all of these AI companies have a lot to gain by being misleading. Yeah.

And Apple has a lot to gain by not being misleading. But they also have a lot to lose, like, because they're not ready. They don't have this stuff ready. Yeah. They never wanted to do this heavy, you know, LLM stuff. They got forced to do it because the stock market, you know, there's going to be incentive on both sides to be either positive or negative about the state of this technology. But Apple doesn't have a lot to gain on hyping up the technology, especially because of how behind they are.

Well, and it's like their stock price will not be affected by people speculating how good new Siri is going to be. You know what I mean? Whereas most of these other players are... Well, they'll get to use the term AI, which is great for stock prices. It is for great stock prices, but to me, I've always understood, and now we're getting into investment talk. So, It's not an investment advice. It's like so much of these other publicly traded AI companies, like they don't have sales or like assets or like actual revenue that would support their stock price. Like the stock like their stock prices supported by this speculative idea that they will can, they will have the dominant AI and whatever weird future we enter. Whereas Apple makes the iPhone like they're going to be fine.

You know, their their stock price is not as dependent on this idea that one. day every single piece of reasoning and humanity will be done by Gemini or chat GPT or whatever meta is cooking up but I do think investors look at this and they say like oh if apple falls behind on this thing that the tech bros say is going to be the next coming of god then Google is really forward in the next coming of God then like we'll put people stop buying iPhones and therefore their stock goes down because they don't make as much revenue ABC people are looking yeah it's a bunch of ifs They're looking 30 years in the future. They're trying to, like, predict the next boom.

They're all just gambling. That's true. Also true. But we should all read the superweight in large language models. It's pretty cool. If you're curious. If you're curious. Maybe I'll just have chat.

Do you know what? I'm curious about what the trivia questions are. Oh. Ayo. Heyo. Guys, after the break, we're going to talk YouTube features because we recently got access, Or on the last episode of the podcast, people were hyping us up. And that's the first time we've ever seen that in action.

So naturally, I had to write a question about old YouTube features that no longer exist. So this is coming in Price's Right Rules. But it's a year question. So you need to, if you go past the year later than the year, that's the over. Okay. The higher year is over? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. So, guys, in what year did YouTube remove all existing annotations from videos that were already on the platform? A few years before that, they got rid of the ability to add new annotations. Yeah. But in what year did they say, oh, yeah, you're pointing to this part of the screen? It means nothing anymore. Annotations were a super common feature. Annotations were the perfect example of this is why we can't have nice things.

Yeah, because people abused it. I will say there were channels that used it very gracefully. I think a mystery guitar man might have even done like a choose your own adventure type of thing. Or like click on this part of the video and it'll take you to an unlisted video and then click on this annotation and you're like moving through unlisted videos through annotations. Even just getting to like fix a mistake where like maybe you just said something wrong and if you could throw a text annotation. But we can't do that because people have to make full screen invisible annotations where you clicked in it went to like a malicious website instead. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

This is, yeah, this is one of the biggest difficulties with making YouTube videos. It's like on a website you can make a correction and you can say, correct it at this moment. This is what we originally said. This is what we were saying now. You can't do that with video. I think they should be able to bring back just plain text annotation. I agree. Like there is a video editor on YouTube and you can do things like blur stuff and you can make critical cuts from a video.

I think you should be able to do YouTube. If you're listening, you should be able to do plain text non-linked. annotations on a YouTube video, every journalist on the platform and everyone who's ever made a typo in a video would love that ability. And there's no way it would be abused. Imagine it works like the blurring feature where slowly over time the blur just and like growing into different parts of the video. That's also possible.

Okay. Well, think about that one though. Annotations. Good trivia question. If I was president, my first law would be mystery guitar man is the only person in the United States who's allowed to wear sunglasses indoors. I think he earned it and everyone else is just shocking his sweat

Casey's right behind him and then it's I would finally be able to see Anna Wintour's eyes Yeah No not Pitbull just mystery guitar man Sorry Pitbull Sorry Pitbull Hells for President in 2020 We'll be right bad

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A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. Bank more oncores when you switch to a Scotia Bank banking package. Learn more at scotiabank.com slash banking packages. Conditions apply. Scotia Beck, you're richer than you think. All right, welcome back. I have a game to talk about, a game that I don't even really know that well, but something

just happened and it was very funny. And I think there's a tech world comparison we're used to we can make. So in the indie game world, we kind of had something similar to like the Apple event launching, which is this game called Hollow Night, the second version of it called Hollow Night Silk Song, just got announced after six. years since the last one. The first one was incredibly popular. It's a Metroidvania-style game.

It was six years since the announcement of Silk Song. Since the announcement. Hollow Night came out in 27. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Metroidvania style, which basically is just, it's like a non-linear side-scrolling type of game. It's a mix between Metroid and Castlevania, is what that means. Anyways, it is the most wishlisted game on scene in that last six years.

and I think the last time we saw like a teaser for it was in 2022. But anyways, they just announced their launch date. But because of how popular this game is, dozens of other indie games have straight up just been like, we're postponing our launch. And in every single one that I've read so far, they are also postponing their launch,

just straight up saying, because Silk Song is coming out, we're delaying this. Like half of them said, I can't wait to play Silk Song, but we're delaying our game because this is so big and we don't want to. So it reminds me of, like you said, the One Plus event that announced

and then was the same day as the Apple event? The One Plus six event got announced and then like two weeks beforehand Apple was like iPhone event this day and One Plus was like, oh God. So they moved it for like, they moved it to be two weeks after the Apple event because yeah, you can't do that. Now imagine in our world though,

Google or whatever changes their event straight up just goes, because the apple that's happening. Like, don't make up an excuse or anything. People also do this with Taylor Swift artists. When they know she's dropping, they're like, sure they do. You got it, fam. That's all of you.

And it makes sense in the indie game world because, like, a lot of these developers are really small teams, and, like, it's kind of make or break if it does well. So, like, delay it a month, give yourself the best chance possible. Yeah. I understand. I read a very long kind of retrospective on this whole situation, and I apologize if I get some small facts incorrect,

but I believe effectively what it was was that Holo Night was like unbelievably popular. They announced Silk Song as like it was supposed to be a DLC to Holo Night. Oh, really? So it wasn't going to cut. It was only going to take a little bit of time to develop. But they ended up enjoying the development process so much. And like it was going to be a new character with some new areas. But then they were like, wait, this new character we could do so much with this.

So like, okay, we're going to turn into a game. And then yours went by and randomly at different games events like, gamescom and like the switch all the stuff they would like they would show a little teaser or they'd let you play like five minutes of it and then they would just go dark again for like two to two and a half years and now uh literally like a few days ago they officially put out they had a little event where they just like put out some gameplay and they put out the release date um september 4th and someone did a interview with the developers and were like what's the inside story like why did this get delayed so many times like why is it taking so long and they were just like

it was really fun to make like we just really wanted to we wanted to add like way more content and we just kept realizing that it was like not going to happen if we released it so early so we just kept doing it and in the words of Gabe Newell bad is forever delayed is temporary so that's true that's the Apple philosophy with the new Siri well they well sure I don't know this isn't a type of game that I would play, but it does look beautiful and it looks really complicated, but in one of those ways where, like, it's so complicated when you know how complicated and know how to work the controls, it looks super fun. Yeah, it's like, it's like a low-skill floor, extremely high-skill-ceiling kind of game. Is that what being a dad is like?

Low-skill floor, extremely high-sale? I think there's a high-skill floor. I don't know. I hit the ceiling immediately, so I wouldn't know. You got to break through that ceiling, Andrew. Um, yeah. Anyways, that's, I won't say anything else about that, because we'll probably get some small information wrong and look like posers. Well, we are posers. We are. We don't say video games.

We're not used to be a podcast. We're just, yeah. My comp is it feels like daft punk album. I know they're not making any new albums, but when they went a decade between making albums, it was kind of like, I don't know, what's taking so long? And then you see the behind the scenes and you're like, oh, that's what took so long. Yeah. But it's once a decade.

That's true. That's my streetlight manifesto album. They went 12 years without an album. They announced it. they know it's a specific release date, six days before the release date, they're like, nope. Now it's coming out in the fall.

Yeah. And I'm waiting with- Wait, it's still not out yet? No, but I thought you weren't and saw them for. I've seen them six times this year. And, and, yeah, they released three early demos of three tracks. Okay.

On YouTube so they can delete them later. But the new album is coming out, hopefully, in September or October. It might have gotten delayed because some Hollow Night Silk songs coming out in September. That's true. They're like, people can't listen to things and play things at the same time. Some GTA-6.

All right. One more quick thing. YouTube hype has launched. Ellis alluded to this earlier. We talked about this about a year ago, I think it was, is when it got announced. But it's out. Super quick TLDR of how this works and how I've been testing it and seeing, you know, what happens is YouTube released a new feature called hyping a video.

and essentially what it does is for channels that are between 500 and 500,000 subscribers you can basically do something that's like a super like if you want to call it that. That's why people are hyping wave form? We're still not at 500.

We are not at 5. Yeah, we're at 475 so they can hype us. It's the only on KVHT channel that can get, I guess, clips also, but actually clips whatever. Clips has more, yeah. I think it does, yeah. But so what it does is it's supposed to help boost videos of smaller creators better so helping get into like the recommended feed and there's also a new

hype tab since we lost trending there is the hype tab so it's basically like mini trending i guess but user generated now instead of um youtube generated and really quick with the way you do it is i think it's really hard to find for one if you're on mobile and you go into the app when you scroll under your video where the comment section is, if you swipe the comments to the left, which I never knew you could do, there's the hype button. It will also pop up if you click the like button and then it will auto swap to show the hyping. You can do it three times a week. When you do that, the video gets points. I don't know how points really. I guess the only way is it looks at points and then in the leaderboard in the hype page, then those points are, you know,

how you get to the top tallied up. it is different because if you hype a video with less subscribers in that range, they will get more points. So when I tested it, hyping Waveform gave it 50 points. I hyped a video from a channel that had like 13,000 subscribers and it got like 1,200 points. Oh, wow. Apparently you can get up to 7,500 points in one hype for like a 500 subchannel. But obviously, you know, 400,000 people hyping 50 points on a video is going to, you know,

that's how to counteract it. right right right that makes sense um and yeah videos need to be less than seven days old um you can get a badge if you are the biggest hyper of the month hype beast yeah if you're the hype beast of the it's monthly based um and you can hype the same video all three times okay that's what i saw but um interesting hype yeah we'll see how much this helps i'm all for helping smaller creators uh like waveform like wave yeah waveform small creators this is how i found out we didn't have 500,000 subscribers. We're almost there, actually.

Our views are killer for our subscriber account. But if you want to hype us, that's cool, but probably go hype some smaller channels. They could use it way more. You can also pay for hypes. Apparently, you can just pay, you can type in how many points you want to give them. And it'll give you how much you want to pay or something. It all seems very organic until this moment. Well, yeah, but YouTube would love for you to game it because at best you might get in

recommended and either. way, you pay Google money, so why wouldn't they love this? It probably, instead of buying hype, see if that channel has like a Patreon or a donation page because that would help them way more, probably. And most of the money goes to that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, true. But yeah, that's the hype feature. Okay. Who are you going to hype this week? Wait for him. I'm harping us. I'm definitely hyping us. I like that. Then I'll be a hype beast. Hey. Well, speaking of YouTube features, there's only one more place to go on the Wayforn

podcast this week. And that's trivia. Guys, question number one, Hosselblad cameras were founded in Gothenburg, Sweden. I spelled Sweden wrong in the sheet. That's really funny. How do I even do that? Gothenburg, Sweden in

1841. What is the farthest away place from Gothenburg that a Hasselblot camera has ever taken a picture. And I'll give you a hint. No, no hint. This is, no hint. I feel like his hint was going to be, it's not the thing you're all writing down right now.

You can do it if you want. Give him a hint. This is not a geography question. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. That's a really good hint. That's a great hint. Fantastic hint, Ellis. Yeah, that's okay.

I'm glad. is that what you wrote originally oh you just screwed david real hard because i know did you write an article i wrote an article you guys both wrote an arctica and then changed it i'm sorry david yeah it's the rising that was for me the blue marble on the moon the answer is the moon damn it i thought that question was really good and then i sold it out it's okay stupid stupid it's it's all right can borrow your red pen this green one is just very hard to read i knew it yeah okay Guys, question number two, prices right rules, but with time instead of money. And money and time, you know, money is time is time is time is time is time is time is time is time is time is time is time is time is right.

I'm so hungry. Same. Guys, uh, YouTube hype. No, YouTube hype we talked about. The quiz question is about YouTube annotations. I'm specifically wondering in what year did YouTube wipe annotations off of every video that had ever been uploaded. I can't believe I ruined my own stupid question with stupid it. it's okay

I thought the question originally was going to be like what's the farthest away a Hasselbod's ever been like built and I thought it was going to be like zero miles they have only ever been built in wherever Sweden also in the way from trivia

doc Adam said with my with my moon question he goes LOL nice good wording and then I just responded I love you and now you can respond I screwed it up

I sold all right what do we got All right. Marquez and I are the same person. All right. So Marquez and David, you both put... 2015. All right.

Which is not over. However, Andrew, you put... 2018. Which is not right either, but it's still under... I was going to write 2020. That would have been over. Okay. I was close.

I took my... The answer is January of 2019. Wow. Wow, I remember there was still someone I worked here, so I went off of that. Oh, that's good. Wow. Yeah, I was thinking, like, by the end, by the time I left college, they must have got rid of it, but I guess not. I was thinking by the time Marquez left college, they must have.

By the time, I was about to leave college, basically. Huh. All right. You know what that means? With our score update, Marquez, in second place. Carrying the. With two points. Oh.

David. Also in second place with two points. Oh, all right. Not bad. And Andrew, carrying the one in first place with three points. St. No. Hey.

You made us cutting it when I said that. I'm cutting that. No, that's getting bleeped. Don't worry. Guys, Wayform is produced by Adam Alina, Ellis Robin, and today, Miles Somerville, who we never really addressed being here. No, we did. after not addressing in multiple books. Nah, yeah, whatever.

I like it better than a way. Wayform is also part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and our intro-outre music is made by Vane. Sill? I like the person honking in the background. Sill. Vain, Hong-h-h-hong-h-h-hunk. Sill!

Bingo. Can you do the bingo son? I don't go to that.