Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - Will Apple Make a $599 MacBook?

Episode Date: August 15, 2025

This week, Andrew and David take over the show once more while Marques is out representing Team USA! First, they talk about the rumor that Apple might make a cheaper Mac laptop before getting into Google's upcoming Duolingo competitor. Then they talk about the hectic Chat GPT 5.0 release, Elon trying to sue Apple, and Perplexity trying to buy Chrome. There was a lot that happened. Enjoy! Links: Watch Marques play Ultimate Digitimes - $599 Macbook rumor Android Authority - Google Translate APK teardown Xiaomanyc - Surprised ChatGPT by speaking computer language Techcrunch - Cassette app Verge - OpenAI charts and graphs Reuters - Perplexity offers to buy Chrome Verge - Ford $30k EV platform WVFRM Fantasy Premiere League Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We need to remember what we lost, what they took from us. Dude, I feel like explaining to people how cool it was that you could go on the internet while your parents were on the phone feels so distant, but like, that was groundbreaking. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You didn't have to announce, like, I'm using the computer. I'm on aim right now. Can you take the phone call later? You just booted me. What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another wonderful episode of the Waveform podcast, Sands Marquez. I'm your host, one of them, David. I'm, I'm Andrew, and I'm excited for this wonderful episode.

It's going to be a wonderful episode because we're going to be wondering where the heck Marquez is because he's still not here and it's troublesome. He's coming back next week theoretically. You can watch his games on theworldgames.org. They're all free streaming. and you can watch the Vod because it's in China and it's usually on when we're all sleeping. Yeah, we have a description.

Yeah, he's still in China. Hopefully he'll get back next week on time to talk about Pixel. You better. Next week's Pixel Week. This week, we have a lot of interesting stuff for you. Mostly, it's a very AI-heavy week, I'm going to say. Notably, Open AI released ChatGB-Five the next day after we recorded the podcast last week.

So we're a week late yet again, so we're going to discuss that. But there are good things about that, because now they're actually reactions to it and we're not just saying what happened. They brought back GPT40 because people apparently are in love with their chatbots now. Elon is suing Apple again and Perpexality is offering to buy Chrome

for a lot of money and it won't happen. But first, we finally got our official first look at the Pixel 10 Pro Fold from Google after they shared the Pixel 10s last week. I have not seen this yet. So I'm saving my live reaction for the podcast. Wait, let's see your live reaction. You've already seen it.

Ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Live reaction, live Andrew reaction cam. Oh, that's the pixel 9 fold. Yep. Pro. Pro fold. What do you think?

It's the same picture. Yep. That's right. All right. Sick. Next. Moving on. All right, I want to bring up something from last week.

Yeah. The end of the podcast, we had a discussion. It was actually a trivia question. that turned into a discussion about me putting folders on my dock. Right. And I felt like everyone was attacking me here. I'm sorry. No, no, it's okay.

I'm glad you felt that way. I guess actually first, Ellis was not here. I would like to see Ellis's take on this. Okay. What is your thought on having folders with apps inside them on the dock of your phone? What did I say to you when you showed me? Because I got back for being sick and you were like, Ellis, I need your opinion. Oh, did I? I don't remember.

I think it was something along lines of like, aesthetically, I can't co-sign it, but I do understand the like two-tap, like the way your brain just sort of gets used to blind motor skills sort of stuff. You know what I mean? Like I could totally see myself it being really efficient to just be like Spotify or Bank of America. I agree. For those that didn't listen to you download something new. Yeah. For those that didn't listen last week, one of the trivia questions was how well Andrew and I know each other and one of the questions was what apps are on our dock on our phones. Andrew has two folders full of apps. Two folders with 12 apps each. So I you could have picked one of what 24 plus three others. 27 apps and you would

have been correct on it. I did get all four right. You did get them all right. Yeah. But so yeah I like it. It's like second nature to just click things and if I download something new it doesn't because their folders, they don't change. My app drawer, I like never go in my app drawer, pretty much. My overall argument is you can never change them or you have to retrain your brain. No, I just change. If I have to put something new in, I take the least use app and put it in that exact spot so nothing else moves.

That's already too much. No, it's not. Okay, whatever. Well, me not being, you know, really petty about this, control F'd my name in the comments of last week's episode and found well over 100 responses with either agreeing or disagreeing with me and I have the final tally here.

Okay, I'm ready. In favor of Andrew and folders. Here we go. 111. In favor of no folders, 18. So there's a hundred and eleven people that are psychotic. Do these people actually have the same setup though

or are they just saying it's okay for you to be this? No, no, no. A lot of them said folders in. I specifically did not pick the people who said, this is such a good idea. I'm going to be using this from now on. I will say, the 18 people, you were all really mean about it, though. Diabotical, psycho.

Like, it was name-calling on top of, it wasn't just this is wrong. There are dozens of us. There was, it was aimed directly at me. But I think, I think folders wins. I'm just happy that there, a lot of them were Android users. There were quite a few people who said, I'm an iPhone user. and put folders in my doc. Thank you.

I'm happy that we have a diversity of opinions. You guys want to guess what's on my dock? It's just straight to the battery percentage. Yeah. And also guess my battery percentage while we're here? Oh, yeah. 61. Andrew?

67. Andrew has it at 68. We're cooking this point. It's 1130. It's a little later than normal. that thing's yeah i think i may have charged my phone a little bit in david's car this morning oh oh yeah true my dock is really boring oh we want to oh yeah what's on your doc it's it's the default messages close messages is on there safari safari's on their phone is on there camera no there's

nothing it's just three oh yeah i remember seeing that it looks so weird when i was hanging out with you earlier this week and it was like oh you did three yeah yeah so it's centered you're that's you know i like that or four things can you put five on an eye Phone doc, no, right? Not on the MIDI, if you can. I think you might be able to with a small, I don't know, actually. All right. Well, we're going to move on to our first actual story here,

which is that Apple is reportedly making a $600 12.9-inch MacBook running Apple Silicon. We talked about this earlier in June, actually, because there was a rumor that there was going to be a MacBook with an A18 Pro chip in it, or an A18 in it. And now we have some more details, according to Digitimes, that says that this laptop could start between $599 and $6.99, which is crazy. That's crazy. That's a very specific range. The price?

Like, they're very confident. Yeah, they're very confident. And not even like, oh, $4.99 to like $9.99. Yeah. It's within $100. Yeah. Well, $599 to $6.99, it's like, that is pretty amazing. I think they're definitely going after sort of the cheaper, like, Chromebook kind of crowd here.

here. A lot of Chromebooks are obviously still cheaper than this, but a lot of people are very used to macOS or, you know, just want to have a lightweight, small, thin, thin, laptop. We've talked at length about how we want the 12-inch MacBook to make a comeback because it was so incredible, so thin, so small. And I think that could be really cool. Minching-quo, who is a leaker for a lot of kind of stuff like this, is suggesting that it could come in silver, blue, pink, and yellow, and would be powered by the A18 Pro chip from the iPhone 16 Pro. I would get one of these so fast. Yeah. This is awesome. I mean, so sec. Yeah. Even just on top of people wanting macOS and stuff, some people just want an Apple product.

Yes. And like, I think we all know that. And for the cheaper you can make a person in class be able to open a laptop and an Apple logo point out, you're going to make a piss ton of money off that. Like, if we're being honest. It's also beneficial for Apple because they've already made a ton of these A18 Pro chips. And so the more they can make, the more the price goes down per unit. They probably have leftovers from. the iPhone 16, you know, that kind of stuff.

And that's the reason that Apple for a while was they were taking last year's pro processor and basically putting it in the next year's cheaper phone because they were, you know, it was just a way for them to like use old stock to lower the price of the unit. Now, sorry. Now because it's the A18 Pro, it would not have things like Thunderbolt support. So it's going to be a little bit less capable. But I think a lot of people would probably be okay with that. A question I have is whether or not this thing would have the Apple C1 modem

that we saw in the iPhone 16E because it would be very nice to be able to have a super thin and light laptop that had its own mobile data. Every time you bring this up, it's like, why don't we have that? Well, it's mostly the modem stuff. Now, it is very easy to tether to your laptop from your phone, especially from an iPhone to a MacBook. And it even pops up pretty instantly that says, do you want to connect to your phone?

So it's not that big of a deal. But I think the ability to just bring your laptop with you and not think about anything, a lot of people would pay for. No, I totally agree. I also, it's funny because out of all the things I would want on this, Thunderbolt is something I probably would want because generally in a smaller computer,

you probably have less storage and being able to just have, like, the fastest SSD on top of it, especially because you're down to pay more because you've spent so little on the actual computer itself. But I guess if you're spending the less amount, you're probably not dealing with big video files or lots of images, stuff like that. The people that they're aiming this at

are not necessarily people who are going to be dealing with that kind of stuff. Yeah, they accidentally made the Apple Silicon MacBook Airs like too good. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's actually like such a capable computer for so many non-professionals workflows

that like it's kind of open. Overkill if you just need something to like take notes on. So yeah, I don't think anyone would miss Thunderball. Because I think already this computer is not going to be able to do anything in Imovie. And most of the people who are doing stuff even with just like notes, documents, school stuff, oh, that's cloud-based at this point. Anyways, you're in like drive or something. So it's not even taking up space.

Which ironically was the whole point of the Chromebook in the first place. Yeah. So, yeah. Apple just wants a little market segment of that. It'll run Angry Birds really well, though. True, because this is an iPhone processor. Okay, next story, Google is apparently adding a language tutor mode to Google Translate. Hey, hey, it was, it's kind of cool, okay?

No, we agree. I agree. Oh, you're excited for this. Okay, so Android Authority did a tear down of a new Google Translate APK that included effectively a whole-ass AI-based duo lingo competitor, which is very cool. you can tell the app your goals for learning the language like if you're going on a trip or if you just want to talk to some like a spouse or something more often and it will personalize the learning experience for you so it's got an audio mode which plays words and different vocabulary for you and you tap the ones that you recognize there's a speaking mode where you can practice your pronunciation it looks very full-fledged surprisingly it looks quite built out you should go check it out on the android authority website they have a whole video where they where they should show it in action so I mean most of the AI stuff is just putting together like a little interface like a specialized interface for you so yeah I don't know I'm terrible at languages I wish I was

better this did remind me though do you guys know that YouTuber that like all of his content is like I surprise blah blah by speaking like Uganda yeah yeah speaking like Mandarin yeah like at a Chinese restaurant yeah he did one recently where I surprised chat GPT by speaking computer language and it's really funny you should He goes into it by, like, talking to chat GPT in different languages. And he's like, can we just practice? And it goes back and forth. And then I'm pretty sure he starts talking in hexadecimal.

And he just says a bunch of numbers. And it'll be like, when it does that, chat GPT starts going like, wow, you can speak in hexadecimal? And then it starts like, can we go talk in a different language? And like, and then he talks about like the robot uprising. It's like, chill, man, let's go talking like French again or something like that and gets like really like nervous sounding. You should go watch it. That's very funny. I think his content is very funny.

That's cool. Should Duolingo be nervous about this? No. You're a duolingo user. Yeah, you're the heaviest duolingo user here. What do you think? What do you think? What am I? Chop liver.

Ellis and I both have a streak that I keep failing at. But I think this has potential to make them shiver a little bit. but I think Duolingo has such a like gamified version that this is more I mean from what we've seen so far it looks more like very practical it looks like hey I'm taking a trip next week

or in a month like let me learn some quick language things so I know how to use the bathroom you know doolingo is more it's way more social it's way more fun so unless they start adding those types of features I'm not sure that this is like any direct competition yeah I don't think that they're trying to make like a full-fledged

you know competitor but it is interesting to see something that Google has made that's been basically the same since they made it and adding all these additional features. I'm excited because there's a lot of, I shouldn't say a lot, like I'm trying to learn all the languages, but there are a lot of languages

that duolingo doesn't support still, and it doesn't seem like they're going to support them any time soon. So that I are in Google Translate, so I would assume that Gemini can whip something up for me real quick. Yeah, I mean, so this is an APK tear down from Android Authority, so I imagine that this is going to launch very soon, which makes me wonder if they're going to highlight it on the pixels. That might be something they do.

I mean, Gemini is already still pretty good at talking languages. Like the other, well, actually, I'll do it right now. Hold on. Hey, I'm trying to learn Spanish. Do you think you could pretend to be a Spanish tutor and help me? Absolutely. I'd like to be your tutor of Spanish. What do you try for here?

It kind of does this already. So, like, I don't see... It would have been nice if it was like, hey, you're trying to learn Spanish, so I'm not going to just straight speak Spanish. Yeah, just went directly into Spanish where you learn man immersion. I have a question about duolingo.

Is it all like... Like, you need to be present on your phone typing and pressing things, right? Can you just do it by listening? So here's my question. Like, you two are like riding the bus or the train and can do it on that. I'm driving a car when I'm commuting.

Is there a way to try it? You want, like, the old school, like, learn Italian. Kind of. Well, because I can't use my phone when I'm driving. You know, you know what is better than Duolingo that should give them around for money? Just type in whatever language you want to learn on

YouTube and then the word SpongeBob full episodes. And I'm like not even joking, because if you're like us, and you just know every line of the show anyway, like, no, but I'm not even like, it's actually been like so helpful. There have been multiple times where I've heard a word and been like, oh,

Spongebob said that. I know that one. He said it like. Maybe I'll just start watching SpongeBob. Yeah, that's the pro move right there, watching cartoons in the other languages. Okay. Dang. Lastly, before we go to break,

I actually think that Ellis is going to like this a lot. There's this new app from the maker of Cruton, which is that cooking app that they made like a Vision Pro version and it won like an award. It's a very cool cooking app. They just released a new app called Cassette. Oh, I saw this. It looks so good.

Cassette is cool. I downloaded it this morning. I'll actually. just give you a little live demo. But basically what it is, is the idea was that we used to have camcorders. And on these camcorders, you would just record a few seconds, put the camcorder down. A few days later, you'd record a few seconds of something, put the camcorder down. You'd record random events.

And then the tapes that you would have at the end would just be these tapes of like random moments of time that were all just sort of stitched together. And you'd label it like 2018 or like April, 20, you know. 20 1996 something like that you know um and so the idea of cassette is basically to do that with your videos on your phone all right so this is the interface it effectively creates all of these different videotapes of different years of videos that have been taken on your phone and it has like a tv with a vCR above it yeah so it feels like you're like pulling out of your uh vhs catalog right and so you there's a take me somewhere button which basically randomizes which one you watch but if I hit

like the 2018 one, it takes it out, it puts it in the little TV, and then you can play, you can fast forward, you can rewind, or you can like randomize. But it'll, I guess 2018 is probably not the best one to do because I only have one video from then. Hold on. Yeah, there's an eject button. So let's just say 2023.

So it puts it in. There's vibrations. It's very cool. And then it basically puts this like little, kind of like VHS effect on top of the video and it also puts like the location and the time and the date

it's pretty much like a there's me talking oh I remember that that was the scrapped YouTube short that we made but oh and then a concert that was also I was with you

yeah yeah we were at this concert together and it's kind of nice you can just sort of just like watch all of these old videos that you've completely forgotten about it feels like kind of a a more fun version of the like this day in like google photos like x amount of years ago or like you were doing this five years ago but it's it's stitching it together so you don't get

the choice of doing it and i guess it will bring back kind of like memories maybe you forgot about a fun old way even though it's very funny that it's pretending to be a vhs tape when almost all of it was definitely recorded on your phone oh yeah but that's the thing is like your phone effectively is a camcorder that we use all the time and we almost never go back and watch these videos but this sort of gives you like a fun way to you can like sit with your spouse or something and just like randomly watch a bunch of videos that you've taken on your phone like five years ago does it take videos from your iCloud or is it only local videos because i am not sure mine only shows like from like this week and last week and adam changes his phone every three weeks so it's

not very useful for me yeah it's probably your eye cloud yeah i'm not totally sure but it's only iOS correct correct yeah right now it's only iOS Android users like to have fun we have folders on our docs we know how to have fun come on yeah that's true anyway I just thought it was fun and very it is really it's a really clever app I'm just nervous that this is going to be built into Google Photos like next week so I actually talked to the developer a little bit they said they want it to be Sherlocked so why so we built this because we really want there to be more like of a vibe when you're going through these features

and we like wouldn't mind it being Sherlocked because we're like not trying to make money from this we're just trying to make phones a little more fun to use so it's exactly what I would say if I wanted to make a lot of money off of something maybe because Google Photos does do this already but it does it terribly it does like a weird

basic track in the background and like Google makes it feel like a remembrance video like someone died and then yeah no like Apple Photos also does this because there's now the memory movies that you can make where you can describe something and it's giving me suggestions moments with lee over time a relaxing afternoon in the park evenings out in san francisco with epic

music it already does this but it's very like evenings out in san francisco wait i i wish i made the clutch move of ordering us pizza at one a m and it has this like animation which is cool oh my god you guys are so lame wait is it epic music it's like me it's like having dinner with epic music it's so cring wait you picked the oh that's google or that's in your gallery this is the this is the memory movies through apple intelligence and it's just random like videos yeah that's pretty rough anyway yeah it's it's pretty rough stop so yeah i don't know fun little thing try it out the the nice thing is like you can download it's free and then you just you can just watch some random

random ones and reminisce a little bit, and then if you're done, you just don't install. Can I ask a question about it? Sure. If it has a feature, and if it doesn't, they should have this. Is there, like, a way to cast to your TV through it? Because that would be the best way. You mean AirPlay? Yeah.

Do they not, is there not Google cast on iPhones at all? There is. Man, I'm, I really know nothing about it. It depends on the app developer if they want to, like, put it in. Even AirPlay or whatever. I feel like the coolest way to do this would be it feeling like the VCR, and then it's casting to your TV. you're watching on an old TV.

I don't know about airplay. Yeah, I'm going to guess not. You probably have to airplay your whole phone screen. Yeah, probably. Question for you, if I were to use this app just as a camcorder, will it do that? Like, every time I open it up, it records on the same tape? Or does it just, like, access my album? It just accesses your, yeah, there's no way to, like, record continuously.

No, you can't record through the app on the same. file. You can't record through the app. That's why I was the question. Yeah. And then the other thing is, I guess there is a paid version that's a one-time purchase of $8 and it lets you manually select videos. So I guess you can't normally manually select them.

But I think that's part of the point is that it sort of just like randomizes and it's fun to just watch the old stuff. I find it so interesting, this trend of like all these old analog things coming back into form of apps because we missed. Because we lost putting things in. Ellis and I were talking about this at his apartment the other night. Like Ellis has this amazing mold. CD mixer the Andrew gave him yeah that's how I was pointing out I was like you brought all this joy into my life and it's so cool it's the only time it's so cool because you can you can put up to five discs in it and there's a randomized feature and it there the number of the song on the disc disappears after it plays and there's just all these really cool there's like a big grid of numbers from one to 25 or however many songs are on the album and every time a song finishes the number goes black and so it's on shuffle

little like speckle out yeah it's cool I don't know so sick my parents had one that held like like 50 CDs in this it was basically a big spinning rack that held them all vertically and would spin around and I guess it would like feed it into the thing and my brother yeah Christ that's a jukebox pretty much yeah yeah yeah it's funny because this is just how we used to listen to music like this makes me feel old I know no I don't know you want to feel old Fueled yet. AOL's killing dial-up next month. Oh, my.

Wait, it's still going? There's a lot of people that still use dial-up. 160,000 people, according to the 23 census. Are those actual people that use dial-up, or is it like fax machines? Or people who still pay? Just don't know they're still paying.

Yeah. Yeah, no. I mean, speaking of like, just really quickly. Just the things that we've lost. None of this is on the docks, by the way. I know. We're just going off the rails now.

Apple in the, most recent beta of MacOS Tahoe and I think the iPad OS version added in preview because the preview app's icon is a loop which if you don't know is like a little magnifying glass

that you put on the back of a 4x5 camera so you can see the critical focus that you're focusing on or so you can look at a positive piece of film on a light table those words mean things they do and they added a little Easter egg where you can now move around a loop on the app

and it's just for fun And someone comment, like someone had tweeted about it and someone commented, wow, typical Apple adding useless features. And I'm like, bro, if you like, come on, do you want no fun in your life? Like, I hate whimsy. Literally. I'm like, does everything have to be practical? Jeez. Also, before the, before the dentists and jewelers get in the comments, you know, loop is any sort of small magnifying glass that sits in front of your eye.

That's true. It doesn't have to be for film. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it is for... I use it for that. Or what's the camera one called? The Chapman's Loop.

The Chapman's Loop. The one that like suction's on to the rear screen. Yeah. Chapman loop. Yep. So, anyway. Speaking of epic music in San Francisco. Oh.

What does that have to do with San Francisco? Oh, yeah. I thought we had a new... Speaking of epic music at San Francisco. Oh. What's that? head to head trivia what's up welcome back to my first round of super head to head trivia because i was sick

last week but first a correction because two weeks in the future i will make a mistake and the reason i can say that is because that is when trivia extravaganza x.0 comes out But in that episode, which no one's heard yet, which we could just edit. Yeah, wait, why? But we won't. Why are you editing? I said that Claude was a Dutch name when it's actually a French name. I forgot one of the most famous Frenchmen of all time, Claude Monet.

Yes. So I apologize for when that happens. Nice. Real ones, no. No, they don't. Not yet. They will know. Well, they know now.

Real ones will know. It shall be known. Guys, in this second instance of super head-to-head trivia, the game where we ask you guys questions about each other to test your friendship. This time, we're going to be asking each one of you one question about the other person per break. So this first round, David, we were going to be asking you a question about Andrew. Ooh, okay. And that question is, what was Andrew's first job? I'm kidding.

That's not the question. Okay, it could have been. But something that Waveform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of? Andrew's thinking. No, I'm thinking of how Ellis knows that. No reason. Because we're buds.

Yeah. How's? How do you know that? We'll be right back. I've got a tattoo somewhere else. Support for this show comes from Shopify. Starting a business often comes with an endless to-do list, but the right tool can make all the difference.

And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. and supports businesses of every size from global plans like Mattel and Jimshark to newcomers who are just getting started. With hundreds of customizable templates, Shopify helps you quickly build a brand that looks and feels like yours.

It also makes marketing simpler, letting you create email and social campaigns with ease. And with AI tools built specifically for e-commerce, you can generate product descriptions, discount codes, and more fast. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce, expert with world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. You can turn

your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. You can sign up for your $1 a month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash waveform. Go to shopify.com slash waveform, Shopify.com Support for this show comes from Coda, powered by Grammarly. If you ever listen to a podcast when one of the guests was clearly recorded on a computer mic or watched a great show, but the lighting was just a little bit off? It doesn't matter how good the content is. If everyone isn't working together as a team, the product suffers. And now scale that up to an entire company.

Trying to keep track of all that information, data, and projects across dozens of platforms, products, and tools will halt any productivity whatsoever. And that's why Coda, the all-in-one collaborative workspace that's helped 50,000 teams all over the world, is here to get you on the same page. By offering the flexibility of docs with the structure of spreadsheets, Coda facilitates deeper teamwork and quicker creativity. And their turnkey AI solution, Coda Brain, is a game changer. It's powered by Grammarly. So Cota is entering a new phase of innovation and expansion, aiming to redefine productivity for the AI era. Whether you're a startup looking to organize the chaos while staying nimble or an enterprise organization looking for better alignment, Coda matches your working style.

Its seamless workspace connects to hundreds of your favorite tools, including Salesforce, Jira, Asana, and Figma, helping your teams transform their rituals and do more faster. You can head over to coda.io slash wave right now and you'll get six months off of the team plan for startups for free. That's C-O-D-A-dot-I-O-S-W-W-S-W-W-W. Coda.com. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget.

After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca. Okay, welcome back. The biggest story that we missed last week because it happened the day after we recorded, as usual, is that OpenAI released GPT5, which is their newest model.

The big, yeah, I know, I know, yeah, pretty much. This big AI wave kind of happened because ChatGPT launched with GPD3, so we went through GBT4, which was like a pretty massive improvement. Then we had GPT 4.5 for a while, there was a 3.5 in there too. And then we've got all these micro models like 4-0 and all these things.

But for a very long time, people have been waiting with bated breath because the jump from GPT3 to GPT4 was so big, people were thinking GPT5 was going to be just as big. It's not. There's one thing I've seen about all this, and I don't even know if it's official, but have you seen that photo of comparing the size of GPT 4 to 5? and it's like, it's just a photo of a circle that says GPT4, a picture of the sun, which is like quite a bit bigger and then a picture of GPT5 that's like three times bigger than the sun.

Yeah. Is this official or it's been on the GPT subreddit for a while? I don't think so. When we were going from GPD3 to GPD4, people were making a bunch of memes like this. Okay, so this is probably a meme. And they were showing like the data size scales and they were just making it like ridiculous.

They're saying GPG5 is going to be this big. yes probably not so anyway um probably one of the biggest updates in gpt5 is that you no longer need to select the model we've talked about in gemini in chat gpti the most confusing thing about using these products is that they have all these models like flash or like deep thinking or deep research like all these different things or pro yeah all these things and for a regular person it's like what how do you know which one is better for what and it's confusing and having to do that is annoying. Same Altman did eventually say, yeah, this is really annoying. So one of the biggest updates is that they basically have an auto model router now based on your query. So

whatever you ask it, it's supposed to automatically route you to the right model for your task. Okay. Which has saved Open AI quite a bit of money, they mentioned, because, you know, can use Flash more often when people would use the bigger model at different times, you know, things like that. Something's also interesting is that pro users are soon going to be able to connect their Gmail, Google contacts, and Google Calendar to chat GDPT now. I didn't realize you couldn't already do that. Well, this surprised me a lot because it seems like that's one of Gemini's most powerful assets, right? Like, Google has been in this incredible position because it has all of your data already. Not only does it have all of your, like,

search data from just using Google, but it also has all of your emails and it has your calendar and like the things that you want agents to do or that you want your virtual assistance to do is to take action on things like your email and your calendar and search through things for you. So that has kind of been a thing that chatchapD has not been able to do. So it's just surprising.

I'm wondering and I'm guessing that there is some insane huge backdoor deal where opening eye is paying Google a ton of money to allow for this. I guess can, I don't know the exact, what does it take? to be able to, like, log into something via Google. You know, like getting that pop-up.

Oh, off. It's like a thing you build into your app, so basically you don't have to handle any of the user data yourself. You just let Google handle it and Google authenticate to you. Yeah. So, like, does Google have to pay? Because, like, can Google stop me from deciding, like, I want to give chat GPT all my information in that sense?

I don't know if, like, your Gmail, I guess your email data would be, something that you could pass off yeah i mean i think it's wild to do that and i think i mean we do it all the time when you're right with your email on like apple mail or something this is true yeah this is true it specifically mentions logging in with gmail google calendar and uh google contacts though which is is different from just like the raw file types you know does that include i don't i don't know if that's as crazy as we're thinking because that would be the same for me as like locking into a calendar app logging into an email logging into a different like phone app like it has all that information that I put in there myself but it doesn't have like my search history you know like

Google still has that crazy amount of data yeah and they get it by default yeah by default they just get it no matter what you don't have to opt in yeah when you use Google search and you're like logged in your Google account or if you use Google Chrome like all of these are ways for to get more information about you. So, I don't know. I'm going to have to do some more research about that. It is interesting, though. Yeah, see if that's like a relationship.

Because if you can just give that even top level information to chat GPT and ask questions about your calendar, like, that's kind of what I want. Well, it would be very surprising to me that they didn't do that before, which is why I'm thinking there must be some sort of deal, right? I feel like when they made all of the, because they made all these GPTs that you could use a long time ago that were like specialized for different purposes. and it seems like being able to access your email would be one of the first things that they'd want to add.

But who knows? So that's interesting. They bumped the context window up to 256,000 tokens from 200,000, and they have a new nano model available that is cheaper than Gemini, apparently. Anyways, it's been about a week since it launched. So, of course, you know, they launched it on Thursdays. Now we've had time to actually digest this update, see what people are saying about it.

and it's not all as positive as open eye would have liked you to believe when they announced it. Most people are saying that it feels a lot colder and more generic and data-driven than emotionally-driven. Which is really good. That's what I want from my tool. Yeah, I don't... I hate when things are data-driven. I know. Yeah, I mean, one of the main updates to this is...

supposed to be that it hallucinates significantly less and that sounds great and that sounds great but there was a lot of backlash because initially when they launched gpc5 they just killed the 4-0 model which was like the previous model that people had been using and apparently a lot of people got very upset about it because they had formed emotional bonds with their robots which i really thought was going to take a little bit longer to happen but apparently not apparently it happened immediately. So that's not fun. Well, I mean, now maybe GPT5

will just understand when you're typing in a query that you wanted to be emotional about it and send it to GPT40. Well, without you knowing which one. This ain't grok. Yeah, based on the backlash, Sam Alman did say that they're going to be tweaking things to make it have a little bit warmer of a personality

and then also give it access directly to the deep thinking mode when people want it. also apparently people were saying it felt a lot dumber than 4-0 and then sam altman said that on the day that it launched the auto model switcher was broken which that seems like an excuse i don't know anyway a lot of people are not super happy with it but i do think this is probably going to be the future of these services is that you're just going to have some kind of AI model that you go and just ask things to and you're not going to have to be like i want it to be faster this time I want it to deep, like, think deeper this time.

If I'm seeing, if it sounds like the two biggest things here in terms of, like, features are auto choosing which model to use, that sounds like a great feature. I totally agree that, like, AI's whole thing is supposed to be, like, this is easier. You can use your natural language. You can find stuff out without having to, like, learn SEO, like, speak. So being able to pick or having to pick between them before was dumb. Yeah. And, like, freely confusing. So doing that is awesome.

Colder and data-driven also sounds incredible to me. I think that is a great move. And I think maybe I wish it was even colder. Yeah. That sounds pretty good. So this sounds like a, they knocked it out of the part. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess if people want it to be, nah. Yeah. I don't like it. I guess it could like the same way it auto detects your query and decides a model. it could like determine how warmly it speaks to you based on your question you know because if you're like hey I don't know what's the difference between these two things it's like okay let me be like friendly and if you're like hey I have a medical condition blah blah blah like help me figure this out then it'll be like more to the point yeah they specifically said that it was much better for medical queries

which go see a doctor yeah can you not just ask it like if you want it to be less cold can you just be like call me Senpai, you know, and then it's going to, like, do that. That's not a problem. I kind of assumed that, but like, that's the problem is if you can keep asking it to do things that you want, at what point is it not just feeding you car? I need a partner to, at least sort of predict my needs. I mean, this is, we've talked about this before, but a robot that is just going to be, like, affirming all the time, people are just going to turn into narcissists. There's plenty of Manosphere podcast that you can go to that will do all of that for you.

Yeah, well, I don't know. No one's going to push back on you. you, or the AI is never going to push back on you. You know what I mean? So it becomes a problem. Another very funny thing that came out of that launch was that they released a bunch of graphs to show how much better it was at certain things. And these graphs made literally no sense. I saw Vergecast talking about this.

It's basically like they're bar graphs and some of the numbers are not even remotely close and they're exactly the same sense. It makes no sense. This one is an academic graph. that just says software engineering bench verified with thinking without thinking and a lot of these graphs like they're the exact same size but they have different numbers on them it says academic and then it has three bars the gpt 51 is pink it has two numbers it's 52.8 or 74.9.9 bar is higher than the bar next to it from open a i o3 which is 69.1 and that graph is the same size as gpt 4 which the number is 30.8 so 52 is higher than 69, but 69 is the same as a 30.8. Yeah. They also had another graph that was deceptiveness, and it just said it, it was rated a 50.

What does that mean? Same. What does that mean? These AIs don't understand scale. Yeah, it was, yeah. And people called this out, obviously, and they were like, sorry, we made this, like, the night before the presentation, and we were really tired. And I'm like, this makes no sense. I feel like if you had given this to ChatGBTGBT, BT, it would have done a better job.

No, I think this was made by an AI. No way. Yeah, because they don't understand scale. Graphing is like one of the first things we taught computers how to visualize. No, they are bad. I've had a lot of trouble generating graphs with ChatchipT. Someone said vibe-coded presentation. It's worse, it seems.

so they're good at stuff like that like there was a few presentations ago where like it was sam and a few engineers around this table in their office talking about some release and it was like the worst sounding video i think i've ever seen on youtube like it was so shocking that this company worth seemingly infinite amounts of money didn't i remember that we were all listening to and we're like mike someone properly okay deception evals across models which doesn't tell you at all what that means. There are two graphs. One is pink. One is clear. The pink one is much shorter and just says 50 at coding deception, whatever that means. And then there's one that's much taller that says 47.4. I was like, what is this? Have you guys used this model yet? I've tried it, yeah. I tried it

yesterday. I don't really, it's whatever. It like, well, I don't know if maybe this was already a thing in 4-0 but I used GBT 5 with Gemini and I was trying to figure out how to edit a Google script that I have which like pulls numbers from YouTube analytics API like all this stuff so I was like okay here's the script

do this extra stuff for me and I assumed Google Gemini would be able to do it and it just completely shit the bed which is like it's a Google product and Google Gemini couldn't figure it out but I put the same exact thing into ChatGBT and it just gave me the right answer so they're doing something right I don't know like how useful

that is to anyone else but that's fair it helped me yesterday no it is surprising with jemini you know they'll always make the announcements like jemini can now do this and i'll be like awesome and then i'll be like do this and it's like i can't do that okay i don't know these things are nebulous how do you get on chat gbt five it's automatically it's already five they they stopped allow it really yeah if you just go to chat jvd i just ask chat chabit am i speaking with four oh or five and it said you're speaking with 405 is not out yet. Case in point, my friend. It just didn't tell four, so it didn't get jealous.

No, no, it's only a five right now. There is a way to switch it to 40 because people got upset that their little jet model ran away from them. Yeah, but it should automatically be five for you. This is the bad place. All right, well, let's go to some cheerier news,

which is Elon suing Apple for only listing, Open AI is the number one on the App Store. Yeah. So Elon tweeted, Apple is behaving in a manner that makes it impossible for any AI company besides Open AI to reach number one in the App Store, which is an unequivocal antitrust violation. XAI will take immediate action. This is really funny because his tweet got community noted like crazy. First, the community note said in January 2025, DeepSeek was number one in the app store.

Then it said in July, perplexity was number one in India's app store. And both of these things happened before Apple and Open AI's partnership was announced. So someone also did they, um, GROC, who's right about this? And GROC was like, lull, Elon is completely wrong and same one's right. Community notes and GROC have hilariously been incredible because of how often it tells people they're wrong on the platform that they swear they're right on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Apple also responded to this when reached for comment, and they said the app store is designed to be fair and free of bias. We feature thousands of apps through charts, algorithmic recommendations, and curated and objective criteria. And if you look at how many ratings and reviews, GROC versus a chat GPT has, chat GPT just has like thousands of more reviews. So that's a thing. People are using it more. I'm sorry. Yeah. It was also funny because Sam started tweeting at Elon, and they got into a little fight about things, and then I'm pretty sure, like, uh, people brought up

that open AI considers X-Link's as potentially harmful. There's so many fun things that are just everyone losing. Yeah. It was a great thread. We, we live under a world of, uh, oligarchs, my friends. So anyway, um, lastly, last AI news, I promise, perplexity has offered to buy Chrome again for $34.5 billion. This will never happen. Oh my God. Me too. too. Yeah, true. I'm also offering $34.5 billion. Yeah, for context perplexity itself is valued at only $14 billion, but they got a bunch of, whimpy, whimpy, $14 billion. But they did get a bunch of funds that said that they would cover the rest or whatever. But this is not, this is not going to happen. Chrome is one of Google's main cash cows unless the government forces Google to sell it. So I wonder if like having these public offers. there changes how like how this might go down of are we going to force them to sell it like if we see that there are other companies out there that are not Google that are willing to buy it and maybe would that's the thing is like it's clearly a monopoly Chrome should

be sold I can't think of anyone who I would want to buy Chrome and not just assume that no exactly the only people that could afford Chrome are the other monopolies but you don't want Amazon to buy Chrome you don't want Apple to buy Chrome it's all bad it's all bad it's all bad it's all bad it's cool seeing some numbers about what people potentially think Chrome

could value it at yeah 34 billion 34.5 billion couldn't even go to 35 billion I know why it's 34.5 I guess 500 million is a lot of money so yeah it is all right well that's about it for the AI segment

of this podcast thank God we're going to take it to an ad break but first Andrew's going to get asked a question about me. I'm intrigued up I already forgot with a question

I don't never mind. Super Head to Head Premium I keep hitting the wrong button

I'm just so sorry guys but Andrew yes keen keen waveform listeners

may have picked up that David is very musical but what genre of music did David's band in college play? I'm pretty sure I know.

I'm pretty sure I know. I'm looking for two in particular and I'll accept either one. Oh, two. One of them is a musical genre. The other one is an occupation. That I don't know what that is. I know what instrument he played too. I don't even know what that means. Hearing that described as an occupation is hilarious. You'll get it later. It was submitted many times as an occupation during our family feud episode, a little while back. Like two years ago. An occupation.

All right. I really hope I'm remembering this right about you, David. I think I am. Well, I'll verify that at the end. Like usual. We'll be here back. Do it. Support for Waveform comes from Monarch Money.

When you get to that certain age, you realize that finances can be messy and confusing. But Monarch Money can act like your personal CFO, giving you full visibility and control so you can stop just simply earning and start growing instead. It's more than your average budgeting app. Monarch Money is a complete financial command center for your accounts, investments, and goals. You don't want to just manage your money. you want to build wealth. And without a clear financial picture,

financial dreams can feel out of reach. It's the reason Monarch Money makes managing money simple, even for busy lives. With all your accounts, credit cards, and investments in one place, you'll always know where your money stands without the hassle. You can track your spending, savings, and investments effortlessly so you can focus on what matters most, making your biggest life goals a reality.

Plus, you can even share access with a financial advisor or tax pro, at no extra cost. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code Wave at monarchmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code Wave. All right, welcome back. Two more. I don't want to read you this.

No. Okay, we're back already. And I got booed. Two pretty quick things to talk about. Not by us. Ford sort of released something. Just like you. All the headlines will say Ford's announcing a $30,000 EV truck.

It's not exactly what they did, but I'll get into that. That's what I'm titling this episode. That's okay. Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford. What are you about to say Jim Ford? Just like Tim Apple. So he announced this week something that he is calling a Model T moment in history, which is a great marketing scheme that David and Ellis both just T-posed at the same

same time but the reason he can kind of call it this is because it's less about the actual truck that he's announcing and more about the assembly line that and how they're going to be producing EVs in the future right so this is their way of getting into a more affordable EV kind of like the way Model T's was the way with the assembly assembly line to construct vehicles for a more middle-class America back in when was that Ellis you seemed like you had no when the Model T came out that is something else would know Ellis Model T release date model T came out in 1920 did you just write Model T release date? Am I wrong is it 23 20 it's either three six or nine it was 1908 it was 1908 it was 1908 they stopped making it and

dang wow it's entire product generation on Yeah, that was the model T2. Well, jokes on you guys. I didn't know that. Anyways, the kind of cool thing about this is that it's not just a linear assembly line. They announced that this would be... Multi-threaded? They were calling it like a tree.

Yeah, a tree. Where three separate lines can start production on different parts of the car simultaneously, and they would all funnel down into the end of the assembly line. Was no one already doing this? I don't know, man. I don't know anything. about mass production stuff like that so they're doing a lot of other things to make these cars more efficient in terms of like automation on the assembly line and things like it says 20% fewer parts

25% fewer fasteners and 4,000 feet shorter of wiring inside it versus the Mustang maki where would that be on the open a i bar graph i think it'd be right between sun and gpt 4-0 it's right next to 48 it's right next to deceptiveness They're also going to be using lithium-iron-phosphate batteries, which they say will save space and weight. These are cheaper types of batteries. Iron. Iron?

Iron? Like, like, F-E? I think so. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay, sorry, continue. This is all still just like, we're not going to see production of this still 20-25. The $30,000 truck.

It is 20-25. Or, sorry, 20-27. Damn, that would be crazy. There's no pictures of this truck. They say it's 30,000. It's going to have a zero to six. of 4.5 seconds, it's going to be four-door, more cubic feet in, like, interior space than a RAV-4, and then that's not including the frunk. And they claim the trunk or the truck of the

bed will be able to fit a surfboard and accessories without the use of a roof rack. What's confusing about that is I'm pretty sure you can just lean a surfboard up on a truck of a bed, so I can't tell the actual size. And there's also many different sized surfboards. Also, that doesn't sound very mid-sized truck anymore. That just sounds like a big old truck. It does. I think everyone's just assuming this is going to be a ranger size, which is in the truck world. That's a small truck. It's smaller truck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, but it's not just going to be trucks. It's going to be SUVs. Pretty much all, we're talking about platform and assembly here, which is cool. But it's also.

The slate, basically, like the slate truck that was announced? It sounds bigger than the slate, but it sounds similar to that line of like, the slate is though pickup. all your different parts like a la carte style. This is more like how we've talked about EV companies built and kind of like bases of vehicles so then they can make multiple different, yeah, platforms. The canoe, RAP.

Yeah. So we'll see. This is a really big announcement for production not starting for one and a half years and we have zero photos of the truck. They did say there's apparently like a rumored some design of the truck going around to

like Ford workers and some people seen it. So maybe we'll see a leak of it sometime in the future, but... I'm also going to release a $20,000 EV in 2020. Do you have a website where I can reserve now with a $100.00 not refundable? If so, please link it in the show notes. All right. Okay. One more thing. Okay. Have you noticed Reddit now has games? I have not, thank God. G gamers can't afford this. Okay, the Reddit app. If you're a gamer, you can't afford this. Everyone's favorite Reddit app that's totally not terrible at all. I noticed this weekend now above my communities, above my most recently visited apps has a sidebar for Reddit games, which first of all, why are we doing games on everything?

Netflix has it. YouTube has it. It feels like everybody's trying to be the next like random app that has Farmville that like a bunch of people get addicted. Do not leave the app. maximum monthly usage time please you don't have this you don't no it's on mine i can take a screen recording maybe they know or a screenshot of it actually did take maybe it's like rolling out little by little they're just personally so in my sidebar right now i have games on reddit redoculus solve riddles then i have type battle flappy goose pixelary and discover more games when i click and

discover more games it brings it up kind of like a subreddit okay with post that have comments and titles, but then I, like, try and play. The first thing I try and play is Flappy Goose, but it just plays me a video of someone else playing it, and then there's comments under it. Guys, we need to touch grass. Don't really understand what's going on.

We really need to go outside. And then there's one pixel-ery. They sort of are, like, this is pixel art, and you have to guess what it is, but there's not really an actual answer to it. There's just a graph of everybody's guesses. So, like, the first one I saw was Crash Bandicoot, and it was just a graph of people typing in crash like bandicoot crash crash crash bandicoot crash bandicoot with different capitalization on it it makes no sense and in an app that already is terrible instead of fixing things like your timeline refreshing and you losing all the articles you just saw or my algorithm just completely shuts off sometimes because i guess i'm not following enough communities and since it won't list it chronologically i just have no more things to read

Or my favorite, getting sold human growth hormone pills in the ads, like every single day. The ads are so bad. It's like Twitter where you can just tell no one wants to advertise on this anymore. So you get the most, the dumbest ads possible. They're like, hey, let's add some games to this. Feels cool. You get games on your phone? Do you get games on your app?

Games in your broken ass app. You know what? App has games hidden in it that are actually kind of fun, though? YouTube. The YouTube app. Oh, right. Have you played those? I've never played this.

Yeah, there's like a runny man. That's kind of good. They're good? I just see all the flash games from my childhood in there. Really? Oh, really? A bunch of them, like new grounds or like... Not that old.

Like a little bit after that. What are those? What are those? I don't know. Like, I don't know. Tanks? Like the... Sorry.

Yeah, there's prison life, city smash, and solar smash. Those are the ones that just popped up. Well, those are the ones that just popped up for me. I just don't get this trend of games. I would love, there's got to be numbers somewhere of how many people are playing. All you got to do is look at Wordle in the New York Times. Wordle got them so many new subscribers.

Most of the New York Times money now comes from just people subscribing for their games specifically. That is true. I think it's like more than half of their profit or something crazy like that. Don't quote me. That was an AI answer. I meant, I said flash games.

I meant early mobile games from my... Yeah, a lot of these are just kind of like early, easy mobile games. games that they put but it's just yeah I don't know it's you it feels like every app at this point every company like it's very rare now that a company will be like we're a company that does this it's just that if you're a tech company and you have anything to do with social media you also have now games and you do video and you do this and you do that and it's like everyone wants to be ticot first and then everyone wants to be this and everyone it's just like sorry didn't instagram just launched the like map your friends thing like snapchat did yeah snap maps a snap or what did uh who's

the CEO of snap oh i haven't speak haven't spiegel didn't he have like in his linkedin like it said facebook uh yeah he said he worked at meta yeah it was like head of product head of product at meta yeah he's gonna have that like times two now yeah i think that was a joke though but still pretty pretty no no it is a joke all right VP of product that meta you didn't you didn't you didn't what app I'm I talk about that has goofy games in it that are pretty fun. Oh, yeah, what is it? It's the United app. No way.

No, no, no, no. That makes sense. Because the United Apps whole thing is like, you need to earn time. You can't pay for the internet, but it'll use the internet just in the app for X amount of things so it can serve you a couple ads. Do you know how frustrating it is when I'm on an airplane and I just want to play Angry Birds? And I can't because Angry Birds requires an internet connection now because of what they've taken from us. I've played a lot of blackjack on the United Ave. They've taken everything from us.

I like the, um, that make the airplanes land. Although it's kind of freaky to play a game where you can make planes crash on a plane. A little bit. All right. I think we're, I think we're done here. We're done. Trivia. Oh yeah.

You guys think you're friends. We're about to find out. That makes it sound like you're going to actively pit us against each other. Yeah, it's super head-to-head trivia. It's not super heads-together trivia. Although maybe that'll be fun for next time. You have to work cooperatively. Wait, that's a really good idea.

Thanks, I'm full of them. Co-op. Yeah, co-op. Couch co-op podcast. PVE. All right. David. Oh, yeah.

Something Wayform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of? A Frisbee. You're just, you're just going to, You're just going to do it? You got a full 30 seconds to think about it. What are the really, like, generic ones? There's, like, the Aerosmith logo.

The Aerosmith? Who is the Aerosmith? What does the Aerosmith logo even look like? It's like, that's like a tramp stamp tattoo. Are you saying, like, the wings on it? Yeah, the wings. The angel wings. Hold on.

Hey, no, hold on. I want to keep this guy. If you think it's generic, like, what generic tattoo? what I have. I don't think it's a generic. Not generic tattoo. Like, it's not a generic in the tattoo sense, but this, the one on my shoulder is not necessarily like artsy or creative.

It is. Generic. You could call it that. An American flag. No. A gun. I don't know. A gun.

What are some of? It's not a frisly. It's not a fris. are a few of his favorite things. Oh, is it one of your favorite things? It is one of my favorite things. A beer? It is.

You're both. Just a beer. I got it when I was 18, so that would be. Oh, a beer. It's a logo. Really? Part of it is a logo. Really?

What brands does Andrew like? Firefox. Is it a mountain? No. Good guess. it Patagonia. Like the Patagonia Company logo? That would be sick.

You said, not going to lie, that would be sick. R-E-I. Costco. I don't know. Those are all things you like. I don't know. I'm writing these all on my future. North Face?

No. It's not. All right. Okay. Let's do 20 questions. Okay. Let's do 10 questions. Okay.

10 questions. Is it a person place or thing? That's not a 10. It has to be a yes or no question. That is. That is. Is it a person my thing? Yes. Yes.

That's all the things. I guess it is a thing. Is it a vague concept? Is it a sport? Yes. Okay, you've whittled it down. Is it a football? No.

It's a sport. It's a sport. Object. It's the football logo. It's a sport logo. A sport logo. Yes. Oh, the devil's logo?

Yes. Whoa, I did it. I did it in one question. Didn't need 20. Through the magic of editing. Call me a magic eight ball. It's the devil's logo, and then there's actually this devil on skates with a hockey stick from their HL logo, like, incorporated. Can I see it?

Yes. Off the pot. Yeah, I don't want this part. Isn't it just your shoulder? Oh. Oh, I see it through your shirt. Oh. Oh, wow.

That's cool. It's almost 20 years old. Wow. Your tattoo is older than like. Chat, GBT. feel old yet it's probably no yeah

feel old yet well Andrew now it's your turn okay because David while in college was in a band and high school

yeah actually I realized I got that wrong it was your high school well it was half high school half college as a young man for David was in a band what genre of music

did this band perform I'm like very confident about this, which makes me worried that I'm wrong. If you can get both words I'm looking for. I'm only trying to choose one. I've literally no idea what the other one is. All right. Should I flip it?

Let's wait for the ending of the sound. We can build more suspense. AOL dial-up internet. That's only one. It is one, though. I wrote ska. I was looking for, though. You wrote ska.

Skaw. What was you looking for? The other word I was looking for, and David, please correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. The other word I was looking for was Pirate. Yeah.

Okay. You know, that's true. Pirates. I should have gotten that. Yeah, I would classify it. Why do both of you have a history with pirates? It's true. You guys should collab.

We had a Pirate ska song. We had a medieval ska song. We had a robot ska song. Got it. But it was more, like, pirate ska was more of the vibe for sure. I've seen. We have an album. It's out.

The Blender music video. With the Pirateship, that's like flipping up and upside down. Rendering that music video, I had a Razor Blade at the time. It was the first one. And it melted the connector between the battery and the computer. So it could no longer. Was the first Razor Blade the one where some of the keys were kind of like the stream deck where you could make them skills like in a MoBA?

Yeah. Man, Razor used to think of some cool stuff. They did. Yeah. The album was called Smoke and Mirrors. by loose cannon mariachi you can find the album on any streaming platform there are also many youtube videos of us playing at county fairs nice and in uh coffee shops anyway i'm never going to make money from that so you never know we have over a thousand plays hey so that's been it yeah thanks

for listening to this episode of the waveform podcast i don't think there's anything else wait i got something he's got something adam has something the premier league starts this week oh yeah I know a lot of people don't care so you can start tuning out. But if you do care about Premier League football, soccer, footy, I am setting up a fantasy draft that I will link down in the description so you can join and we can just have a Wayform fantasy Premier League soccer thing. So do that. And the winner of it gets to be the Wayform producer for one day.

Oh, actually, I would love that. If we get Marquess to sign off on that, I would do that. Yeah. Probably not, though. probably not mostly just for funzies sports um marquez will be back next week thank god next week we'll be talking about all the pixels pixel they're going to be launching so it's going to be a big week very exciting week um we're definitely going to learn new things definitely i'm i'm really i'm almost definitely pre-ordering this new pixel the next like a bunch of weeks for waveform

are really sick we have we have pixel and then we have trivia extravaganza and then iphone right after that. Yeah. And then it goes back to sucking. Yeah. I love that you put trivia extravaganza in between our two biggest episodes of the year. Yeah. It's literally the traditional as like the biggest thing that happens in tech. Nice. That's true. Well, yeah. Google and Apple like made sure their events didn't yeah. Yeah. They shut down their campuses so that everyone's going to want to be at home watching. That's true. Trivia extravaganza. There's like a palpable shift in the S&P 500 from so many tech companies. is, like, being unproductive that day.

That's true. Someone please read us out before I... Wait a form was produced by Adam Alina and Ellis River and a partner with box media podcast network and our next intro, intro, music was created by Vain, so... Bingo! I shouldn't have done that. Now we just have to wait.

Now we got to wait. Now we got to wait. on. Wow. So dope.