Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast - You Can’t Sell Your Cybertruck and Nikon Buys RED

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about all of the news of the week and a few from last week as well. They go over everything from not being able to resell Tesla Cybertrucks to Nikon buying RED cameras. Plus, they talk about Spotify adding music videos to its app and TikTok potentially making an Instagram competitor. Of course, we wrap it all up with some fun trivia. Enjoy! Links: Reselling a Tesla: https://bit.ly/3wPiiNs Mark McCann tries to Buy a Porsche: https://bit.ly/3wXvAru TikTok Photo App: https://bit.ly/3IDvVlv NY Mag Sells Mechanical Pencil on TikTok: https://bit.ly/49bsNbH Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Instagram/Threads/Twitter: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show is brought to you by Nissan Kicks. It's never too late to try new things, and it's never too late to reinvent yourself. The all-new reimagined Nissan Kicks is the city-sized crossover vehicle that's been completely revamped for urban adventure. From the design and styling to the performance, all the way to features like the Bose Personal Plus sound system,

you can get closer to everything you love about city life in the all-new, reimagined Nissan Kicks. Learn more at www.nissanusa.com slash 2025 dash kicks. Available feature, Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Yo, what is up, people of the internet welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts i'm marquez i'm andrew and i'm david this week in this episode we've got a bunch of stuff we have red being acquired by nikon nikon nikon is actually how it's said. Theoretically, anyway. Cybertruck resellers being punished by Tesla. TikTok competing with Instagram.

Spotify adding another feature we're not too sure about. And a whole bunch of other random stuff probably in between. But first, I want to show you something. Okay. Both of you. And yes, it's a keyboard. Fair warning. But I built this keyboard last night it was specialty made for the studio so this is a one of one I have

the case I'm gonna hand it to you oh my gosh okay it's in it Jesus that's a little heavy it's uh it's in a yeah it's in a really nice case well this is not the case for it but I just put it in there for the effect it's in a really nice case. Well, this is not the case for it, but I just put it in there for the effect. It's just a lame other case, I guess. Well, it's for another cool keyboard, but this was specialty made for... Oh, geez. Ooh.

Oh. God, keyboard. So this is a keyboard from a company called Geist Machine, and they make this really wild, super heavy, beautiful German-made keyboard. And they're fans of the channel, and they made a matte black version. Is this turn?

Yep. That's cool. With an incredible set of keycaps that are red and black. Oh, wow. And with our red keycap on the escape key. That is super cool. I think it looks beautiful. Well, let me just put it down real quick.

While you're doing that, can we settle something right now? A dispute that Ellis and I have been having for weeks. What? Do you want knobs on your keyboard? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Yes or no? Well, isn't Ellis' argument knob versus rotary dial or something like that?

My argument is that people think they want knobs. They live in this yeah people think they want knobs they like live in this i want knobs where they want knobs but actually they don't use their knobs i use my volume knob all the time volume knob is like maybe one of the few acceptable answers but when people are like yeah i want some like i want some knobs on my desk so i can like map to my go-to parameters in photoshop maybe brush size maybe but stuff, look, if you really want rotary encoding, get a jog wheel. If you want

to control a parameter, get a fader. Get out of my face, frankly. That sounds nice. Does it feel nice? It feels really nice, right? When I was in the mechanical keyboards in 2013, none of this stuff existed.

There were not companies. It's the ultra hobbyist. This is art at this point. Yeah, there were not all these companies that were making these steel keyboards. That just did not exist. I just want you to hold this. Yeah, David needs to see this. I'm scared. It is 60%, so you probably

wouldn't actually use it because you don't have function keys. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But this is custom. It's all custom matte black. It's usually like a silver and a copper like rose gold color. This is straight copper and they painted it. And then it has this cool see-through. They made us custom red gaskets for it.

And then this key cap set is wild. We're looking at the website now. Yeah, I'm worried you're going to tell me the price is like. Oh, it's like 800 plus. No way. For the regular version and not including key caps or stabilizers. yeah i'm worried you're gonna tell me the price is like oh it's like 800 plus no way for the regular version and not including keycaps or stabilizers or switches yeah no wait just for the body yeah you get a keyless keyboard for 800 not just keyless no switches no stabilizers it's a piece of metal when you guys are typing tests something like

trying out a keyboard what do you type um andrew manganelli is the best i'm not even kidding i usually type the alphabet or like something andrew manganelli is the best in the world and then i just start like riffing off that which usually just means like and he is so cool and this keyboard is pretty awesome or this keyboard sucks i started typing like i am typing so fast right now i started typing about how i'm typing i always write or i type the cat is so very meow that's what i always type type it right now i usually say this is very cool over and over again now rate your typing experience of the cat is very meow one out of ten very high the main thing with these mechanical keyboards i want a number david

need a review 7.7.8 there it is tough critic actually maybe higher maybe 8.1 this is every hobby by the way where someone goes isn't it By the way, it's seven times as much as the normal one. But it's not even... Okay, my main thing is that these cases are always so tall that unless I have a wrist rest, I don't like typing with my fingers like this. People do like wrist rests. He did send, there's another version of this

that has an adjustable bracket on the back so you don't use this wheel and you use it so it will change the typing angle but it is taller i love the angle i just want okay i just want a wrist rest to be able to make it you want a solid copper wrist rest that's also seven pounds jeez yes you could eat caviar off of it or wait you could not eat caviar off of it which one is the caviariar? You could hurt someone. Oh, I don't know. This wheel is epic though. It's really nice.

I agree with you though. It is like, I compare the keyboard space to like the sneaker space a lot. It's similar. It's like the sneaker space, you could compare it to sports hobbies. You can compare it to cars hobbies where you get past a certain point

and it's theoretically actually worse for the everyday person, but you like appreciate things about it that other people haven't and there's like rarities of some that were like this i don't believe there's many people in the company making this they're from germany and they're like doing an incredible job at making these like as high quality as possible so describing a porsche yeah or or like a pair of jordans that have like a certain type of leather or collabed with Travis Scott or whatever something like that like it is the same Jordan but you're paying seven times the price for

it oh my gosh this is heavy but yeah I just wanted to sorry I didn't want to not totally sidetrack this but I wanted to show it I built it last night it was super fun to build and it is a beautiful pick it up okay hold on speaking of speaking of things that are extraordinarily high quality red we use red cameras nice uh and a lot of things that we do especially on the mkbhd channel yeah uh out of nowhere well somewhere oh well yeah out of somewhere uh but kind of out of nowhere red gets acquired by nikon nikon nikon i'm just gonna keep saying it both ways every time because people say both can't upset anyone that way yeah what could go wrong no uh so i've never used a nikon camera i've actually that's not true i've used couple, but I've never shot mainly on any channel with Nikon.

I always used to rag on Austin Evans because he shot on Nikon cameras for a while. We'd go to CES and he'd be the only one using a Nikon camera. And you all picked on him. Yeah. We're like, you're still using it? What is this camera? Why are you using this one? And he loved it and used it with it and it was great.

But he eventually switched. And there's just not that many nikon video cameras out there so to an extent i see why nikon is getting into the high-end cinematography space with red yeah but there is also some history to nikon and red isn't there there is you want to get into that sure yeah so there was a lawsuit that has been going on since 2022. In my opinion, one of the stupidest lawsuits of all time. It's like a petty lawsuit. Yeah. Dumber than, no, the McDonald's hot coffee. I sidetracked that.

No, that's real. That's legit. Just kidding. Keep going. This one's closer to real. Yeah. Sure. So for a very long period of time, people have been trying to shoot compressed internal

RAW on their cameras, which basically means, like if you took a RAW photo versus a JPEG, it's compressing it slightly, but it's still RAW, so it's storing a ton of dynamic range and all this information, color information, so it's super flexible in post. Now, normally when you shoot video, you have the option of like H.264, H.265,

which are compression algorithms, which basically take intra-frame compression. It's this whole thing. But over time, a lot of camera companies have been trying to figure out ways to basically up the quality of their video. So apparently, Raw has had a patent on compressed internal Raw video.

Nikon's had a patent on it. Red. Red. Red hat. You said Raw hat.on's out of patent. Red. Red. Red hat. You said raw hat. Red hat. Red hat. Red hat.

Okay. Red hat raw. Yeah. Yeah, red patented compressed raw internal recording. Okay. So that no other video camera could do compressed internal raw recording. Yeah. And I remember this because I remember when the nikon z7 and z6 came

out or z9 yes z7 and z6 came out like a number of years ago they didn't have it but if you used an atomos ninja which is like this external monitor that is also a recorder that goes on top of your camera you could record raw raw yeah and so i was always like i wonder why they're doing that like it must be a buffer speed thing or something like that turns out it was just because of this lawsuit so when the z9 came out which is nikon's like highest end super fast camera that doesn't even have a um a shutter i think it's just like all just like reading yeah it's the noise it makes do you remember that sony camera with the like boost button and we found out that it artificial sound now that's i'm imagining just you hold it goes reading yeah yeah that'd be great yeah so the z9 came out uh in 2022 i think and it it had internal compressed raw built in

and nikon was just like yeah we think that that is a stupid patent that should never even have been granted and i think at this point they were just like we are going to like take this on and if you sue us then maybe we can get your patent removed because it's stupid in general and i i agree like i think you should not be able to patent something like that because then you're just controlling the entire camera it's too broad it also feels and maybe you can explain this better but there's already raw photos which does not have a patent correct i presume so like all you're doing is taking the new version of it's just doing raw on something else so yeah so i guess what could is there patent it's the idea of compressed raw yeah compressed specifically so you could do because

uncompressed raw is gigantic and ridiculous anyway but they had all these compression ratios and so i'm sure they wanted to just patent that but they ended up patenting something so broad that it just applied to all compressed raw yeah okay so we used to shoot like remember the ratios would be like five to one or ten to one or twenty two to one now they've simplified it to just lq mq hq okay those are the compression ratios of how lossy is the raw it's kind of a weird way of saying it so they essentially just tried to compress their compression or sorry they applied their compression into their compression but it just covered compressed raw which is super okay in my opinion that makes sense but it wasn't just like red's like we did it first no one else gets also compressed raw is

a little bit of an oxymoron it sounds like it because the whole point of raw but i assume what they're doing is like uh in raw photos at least if you have completely uncompressed raw it's taking like everything that the sensor is capturing most of which are humanized cannot even perceive it's like frequencies of light that we can't even see like all this like redundant information so compressed raw is pretty much like the hq and red is like everything up to the stuff that doesn't matter at all okay so it's still huge amounts of data except for a little bit of stuff so So is it just a different codec, basically? Codec?

Or not codec, like format? Like how when you would compress a picture, a raw photo to like a JPEG. They're compressing a raw video into whatever they made that's their red thing. Yeah. And that's what they tried to patent. They patented the whole process. They patented the idea. The whole idea.

It's like if you patented, like if you had a special fishing rod that had a certain mechanism to catch more fish and then you just patented good fishing rod, it's like, okay, you did have a cool idea there, but like that's too broad. And now anyone else who has that similar but slightly different good idea can't use it.

It sounds like they just took two things that were already things and put them together and they were like, we did this. They were the first people to Google search compress raw so no one had searched it and then tried to patent it. What they should have been able to patent is the specific compression algorithm that they were using for Red Raw. That's what they should have been granted a patent for. And our 3Ds are dope and I love them. I was going to say, is that specifically Red's fault or is that just like the patent office not having any idea okay i'm i think it's i'm sure red wasn't upset about it but yeah okay i'm sure red tried their luck it's like when um what was that youtube group that like tried to patent the idea they

tried to patent the word react the fine br that was a trademark. The Fine Bros. Trademark or patent. They tried to trademark reactions. Yeah, react. The word react. So that you couldn't make a YouTube video without paying them. You couldn't make a video with like... They had this whole series that was reacts. So they wanted to just own that.

And they figured that the best way to do that was to make sure other YouTubers couldn't do it. And boy, did that go well. Yeah. That went super well. Sony tried to get the trademark on Let's Play like way back in the day. Just not good. So dumb. Don't do that, guys.

So, yeah. So, okay. So back to the story. So, Red was suing Nikon in 2022 over... Oh, sorry. Nikon was suing red in 2022 over this really stupid patent and then randomly in april of 2023 last year i remember this happening randomly they just dropped the lawsuit and they didn't disclose why they dropped the lawsuit so yesterday when i was doing research on this i was reading a bunch of articles from when they dropped the lawsuit and everyone was like yeah was doing research on this, I was reading a bunch of articles from when they dropped the lawsuit

and everyone was like, yeah, they probably settled some internal thing that they came to some agreement. Well, they did. And I'm like, oh. So then this news comes out of nowhere on I think Monday morning that Nikon had just-

This was Thursday because we had finished editing the broadcast and everyone was expecting it last week, but you were already in japan yeah yeah so uh that nikon has just acquired red which seems insane to me because nikon theoretically everyone has kind of been like nikon's on their deathbed for like years yeah because the z6 and z7 and z8 and Z9, as good of cameras as they are, they're just not very popular. And almost every camera manufacturer actually doesn't make most of their money

from their consumer cameras, to be fair. Like Fujifilm makes almost all of its money from medical devices. And then of their consumer cameras, like 80% of their margin is in stacks, which is the little instant film cameras. So they make almost no money from actual consumer digital cameras. I assume Nikon is similar. But I don't know specifically what categories Nikon makes all their money. Either way, it seems pretty crazy because Red is like a very well known camera company in the

industry. But they're also super niche as well like i'm assuming their sales and numbers i don't know what the profit margins are but like neither of those seem like companies that are selling red is the underdog in the cinema industry they have to like consistently kind of like showcase like these movies are shot on red i promise these movies are shot in red yeah yeah and whenever you i always like that you can see like what cameras certain films or award-winning movies are shot on yeah and Red sneaks in there like lots of RE lots of canon but there's a bunch that are shot on Red so they make it known and Red does have this reputation at this point I think when people hear Red camera they think oh expensive cinema camera

Guardians of the Galaxy yeah I know Red yeah so yeah they're out there i kind of they strike me as like the well-known but like the lotus of of camera manufacturers like you know who they are but you realize they really don't actually sell that many cameras even though they're used by a bunch of studios yeah so i i'm not shocked that nikon has the money or whatever to acquire them i'm just i mean they don't they haven't detailed how much it was for or any has the money or whatever to acquire them I'm just I mean they don't they haven't detailed how much it was for or any of the terms or whatever but yeah I don't know whenever whenever I see something like this I wonder what are they going to do now and now that they own it are they going to change a bunch of stuff are we going to have Nikon logos on the rest of the red cameras that come out from here on out like what is happening they're a subsidiary so I don't think

they're going to change anything continue Continue to operate like fully independently. I would guess that possibly Nikon and, or a red probably was like, yeah, we're going to lose this lawsuit and we should just take a deal or something like that. Something that I've always noticed is if you go on like reds shot on red page, all the movies that have been shot on red generally have like really,

really heavy color grading, like very, very intense color grading. And I don't know if that's just like there's a reason that people shouldn't read because they want to be able to color grade like that but um that's just something i always notice versus like ari ari is usually a lot a little more like subtle yeah yeah i i know that I shoot on red because the color science is so good. It's so good. It's so stupidly good. Now some Nikons might have that.

Honestly, that would be nice. That would be really nice because we shoot Canon for a lot of the same reasons, like good color science, easy, good autofocus. If we suddenly had a bunch of Nikon cameras that had red-level color science, I'd be pretty happy the most annoying thing about nikon is that their mount and their um focus and zoom are all backwards yeah from everyone else something about that strikes me also as lawsuit related i think it's just petty you think yeah because like every other camera manufacturer just does the same direction as as like mounting lenses is always this it's like slightly different for every mount like canon is like 12 o'clock three o'clock and then like rf

mount is three o'clock five o'clock or whatever yeah and then nikon is like a different direction yeah it's just they're all slightly different is pl an open standard i don't know because it's kind of just locking it i feel like yeah it must be open because it's not really a mount yeah i don't know who would own it yeah But yeah, a lot of people make PL glass, so. Yeah. Anyway, I should have brought my Nikon.

I did buy my first red camera while I was in Japan. Okay. I bought a Nikon FM2 Titanium because I love titanium. Sick. Anyway. Is it film?

Yeah, it's film. Of course it's film. Of course it's film. Of course it's film. Do you think they're going to still be so against the patent now that they own it nope i hope not because nikon was aggressively arguing that red should have never even have been granted the patent and so if they turned around bought red and then started enforcing on other people it would be the dumbest that would be hilarious i wouldn't put it past

them yeah that's the greatest business especially if you're just saying they they're not doing that great that sounds like a great way to that's like politics where you like debate the person over and over and by the end you're like i endorse this person to be the president that's like that's exactly how it goes they're the worst person i've ever met they're terrible for democracy but you need a vote for them. Yeah, vote for them now. Yeah, well, we'll see how RED operates. I'm very curious. If we get better Nikon cameras, that's a win.

If we get better RED cameras somehow, that's also a win. Yeah, I don't think the RED logo or anything is going to have Nikon on it. But I guess you would worry if... The biggest worry would be if RED stuff starts declining in quality. Because Nikon starts taking over a little more yeah yeah we love random tech takeovers of course yeah we're we're nikon boys now yeah we're nikon boys now well not in the pod we're canon boys in the pod that's true speaking of speaking of i tried to stall that as long as i could for you to get that one. Speaking of random tech. Speaking of great colors,

Blue Sky let its users pick their own moderation filters. Red. What do you mean? Oh, that's good. Oh, I was talking about color science. Oh. Red versus blue. Works either way.

I like them both. It's also shut down. It's like a double entendre. Wait, what shut down last week? What was it? Rooster Teeth. Rooster Teeth got shut down by Warner Brothers, I think. Yeah.

Because they bought them. Warner Brothers Discovery. Get it right. Oh, my gosh. Which will soon be Paramount, Warner Brothers, Discovery, Max. Which will soon be Warner Brothers, Paramount, Discovery, Max, Red, Nikon. Which will then be Netflix. Here at Dr. Pepper.

Here at Dr. Pepper. Okay. I get one good segue and y'all got to take over. No, that was good. So we're having Here at Dr. Pepper. Here at Dr. Pepper. Okay. I get one good segue and y'all gotta take over. No, that was good. So we're having a blue sky. Yeah. I don't know.

Oh, okay. Okay. All right. We almost had it. Okay. So blue sky just opened up a new open source tool called Ozone that is allowing users

to set their own moderation filters. Wait, is this a pun? The Ozone thing? Yeah. Oh. Yeah, it is. Solid Wait, is this a pun? The ozone thing? Yeah. Oh. Yeah, it is. Solid. Because it's a blue sky.

Best thing Blue Sky's ever done. You didn't notice that? No. Did Blue Sky change their logo yet? Yeah, they did. It's a butterfly now. That app icon was so bad. I don't know why it's a butterfly now, though.

That doesn't make any sense. It's still better than the just, like, photo of the clouds. I don't know. I liked that. I liked that, too. Oh, the photo of the clouds? Yeah, it did not match inside of... Yeah, at least use't know. I liked that. It did not match inside of, yeah, at least use a vector.

Yeah. Okay. Anyway, yeah, they're letting users customize their own moderation filters with this open source tool. So effectively, you have this feed, this social media feed, and the biggest issue in social media consistently is how to do content moderation, right? Because

X has now gone on this like direction of like we're going to do less content moderation so you just kind of get everything you get people yelling at you you get random uh porn bots in your comments non-stop but that's the way they want it to be so that's the way it's going to be and then can i jump in on x real quick sure do you guys get liver king ads yes no i started i get full-on ads of just liver king yeah promoting what himself liver king oh himself it's wild i haven't gotten that at all i'm sorry that just seems like the state of of twitter ads right now is i do get a lot of mobile games or liver king yeah i do get oh it's all right and i'm like oh that's of annoying. And then the next 700 times I open Twitter, that ad is in the same place every time.

Yeah. But yeah. Okay. Yeah. So their approach is like less moderation, kind of just let it go, even though Linda Iaccarino would not say that's the case. That's the case. And then Threads, which is run by Meta, is like, we don't want politics on Threads.

So they specifically downrank political content, which is very annoying for journalists that use social media to get news, all of this stuff. And they are going to be federizing, which means that you're going to be able to have Threads on other platforms. Their API is going to be open, so you're theoretically going to be able to have your own app that runs its own social media content moderation. But Blue Sky is basically letting users create their own content moderation platforms that other people can use. And it's sort of like Reddit where you can have basically moderators that are able to go through a queue that users that are using that content moderation version can like report things that slip through the cracks and then you'll have people that can like you know do that it's like a little more community focused i am a little confused about this because like are they like it's just letting a bunch of users i guess become a moderator and then moderate things what's stopping that from enough of a group taking control of what they want to moderate or or you

have to you get to join theirs you join a moderator ultimately is completely unmoderated and then the users moderate some blue sky you can decide to go into that blue sky itself like blue sky.social the main blue sky regular blue sky website there they have their own content moderation team like blue sky has its own policies that moderate content in a very specific way and then this is adding on top of that adding on top of that okay yeah so it's like there's a there's a default level of content moderation and then this is like additional content moderation if you want to do that okay yeah it stacks on top yeah stacks on top okay the main thing i was worried about there is that the base of this was totally unmodified just completely nothing yeah no

that'd be worse my main observation is that they should rename it because ozone is technically bad for blue sky but the layer no the layer is good oh the hole in the ozone is bad yeah yeah yeah okay so we got rid of the hole no we didn't yeah we did didn't yeah we did we did we fully got rid of yeah we healed yeah we fully healed when did we do whatever you want burn those leaves in your backyard because everything that was causing the hole was like the aerosol spray cans in the in the hairspray okay so we just hope that no more hole develops in the ozone no we're just like not doing that stuff we like full this is back when we actually cared about climate change and we could make like meaningful changes fast yeah but i guess

the analogy here is the hole in the ozone would be a hole in moderation yeah so we hope that there's the ozone layer is like a layer that protects the harmful radiation from coming into Earth and warming the Earth. Exactly. So the ozone is not the hole. It was a hole in the ozone layer. Right. The ozone itself is like a protective layer. I'm exposing my lack of science.

I thought the atmosphere was keeping things in and the hole was letting it out. No, the hole was the opposite. It was too much carbon dioxide buildup. No, no, the ozone's not about carbon. Yeah, it's separate. It's totally separate. But what if we did put a hole in the ozone and then all the carbon could leak out? Neil deGrasse Tyson's

watching this. Bring the aerosol back. God, make it stop. I don't know enough about climate change to dispute you, so maybe we should... Raleigh! But what you were saying proves that the term ozone is perfect it is yes it is that is totally fair all right good call blue sky good name good a little bit of trivia that will quick trivia that will make it make more sense okay okay ozone is o3 you know how h2o there's like two oxygens ozone has three oxygens gotcha when you put it all together it's a pale blue gas

that's more confusing pale blue gas blue sky blue sky blue gas so is there just a bunch of pale blue gas in the atmosphere

that stops the radiation from warming the earth and it there's a cycle too right like I believe that it it loses an oxygen

and then it rebonds with the radiation. And we need Raleigh back here. Yeah, I'm going to... There is a cycle involved. I'm going to preempt this that we are not scientists. I'm pleased to not...

Oh, that should be painfully obvious by now. They knew. They knew. I thought I was smart. Yeah, I think this is a very interesting idea. We were considering doing something around all of these different protocols that are opening up for these social media platforms, because I think ever since Twitter got purchased and turned into X, there's just been this rat race for like, what's the next big social media platform going to be? differently. Like blue sky has the app protocol, which is like, if you own your own domain, then your handle is just like at davidml.com is my handle and it can go everywhere. Whereas threads

is trying to federize so that you can just like have one account on one website, but then those posts will also show up on other websites. And then X is just doing nothing. I mean, so I just, just trying to burn slower than the other ones. Yeah. It is crazy because people, if you'd asked us like eight months ago, we all would've thought X would be dead by now. But it's still, it's significantly worse to be on, but it still just has the user base, which is why it's the thing that matters.

I still don't know. I mean, there's still cashflow negative, so I don't really understand how they're still making any money, but, or how they're still alive. Liver King ads. Liver King. He's funding them. Anyway. I found the best new social media app recently.

Oh, no. Best. Best one. Strava. None of them can compete. Strava. It's called Bird Buddy. And what you do is it pairs with a piece of hardware.

You put this bird house with a webcam in it in your yard. And every time a bird comes and hangs out at your birdhouse, it takes a picture of it. But then with this product, there's this app. And it's like a TikTok-style swipe-for-you feed of just birds that are showing up at people's houses all over the world. There's only one engagement button. It's an applause. If you like the bird if you like the bird you applaud the bird there's no negativity there's not even other people

no moderation so it's not moderation it's not social media it's really wholesome what would stop you from tiktok for doing a musical dance in front of the bird feeder or way worse things that's a great question what would stop you is that it actually has really good let's start content moderation vision what if i dressed as a bird it's good enough to know like what people are and to not show people and what's really funny is that it'll publish other animals that'll show up so it'll be like oh there's a robin oh there's like a parrot from someone in the tropics squirrel yeah just like a squirrel like right against the camera he told me about this a couple weeks ago and i want it so bad we should get a bird buddies content moderation this sounds like this sounds like a social media

app that you would make up for a trivia question i know but it's real but i i guess i believe you and it's solar powered too so you never have to charge your bird it's only. But I guess I believe you. It's real. And it's solar powered too. So you never have to charge your birdhouse. It's only a photo or a video? It's a video. Okay, it's a video, right? It's a video. Yeah.

And it's a good video. I need to get my father-in-law. The name Twitter is available now. Is it available? Well, no. But I'm just saying it's not being used. Don't get rid of the name Bird Buddy quite yet. Yeah, I'm just saying.

You know, okay, before I round this out. I'm just saying it's not being used. Don't get rid of the name Bird Buddy quite yet. Yeah, I'm just saying it's not being used. You know, okay, before I round this out, you know what is a great social media app that I really like? Strava. I love Strava. Yeah, biking. But you know what's weird about Strava? I have like 100 followers and I don't know any of them. That's the same.

And this weird thing happened where I signed up for Strava and I just like, I guess reserve the MKBHC username. And then the next morning I woke up to like a couple hundred and I'm like, what, what do you, why? Yeah.

Because it's literally just going to GPS tag where I am. Yeah. You can like turn it off or you can also like hide your start and end points. So they know generally where you're anyway it's like yeah i went on this i went on a run on sunday and i had like 20 people give me kudos on my run and i don't know any of them well but i do like checking in and seeing like when and where adam ran and then i can be like we ran the same amount i don't know that's how he texts me he's like look behind you i think that's healthy social media besides the stalking part of Strava.

But the rest of it, I think, is pretty healthy. Fair. I like the bird one. Yeah, I like the bird one, too. You should get one. You got the house for it. Bird app. What are they called?

Bird buddies. Bird buddies. Bird app. If you want to send us some, I'll definitely use it. The logo should be a Twitter logo. It's available. Hey, we should take a quick break okay and we should do trivia oh yeah I hope this is bird related trivia or or Nikon related avian or both lots of people take bird photos with that's a great point actually I would argue

that most bird photos that's absolutely true okay I will say, concert photographers and nature photographers, always Nikon. I do always see people at parks with Nikons and lenses that are taller than them. They're always 600mm lenses every time. But then when it gets to sports, they go back to Canon. Really? There's a lot of Nikon sports photography, but there's a lot of Canon.

I bet Canon's taken over recently. I feel like the 1DX was like the Olympics camera. Anyway, it's not a bird question, but it is a Nikon question. I bet Canon's taken over recently. I feel like the 1DX was like the Olympics camera. Yeah. Anyway, it's not a bird question, but it is a Nikon question. Oh, God, I'm going to fail. Earlier this episode, we talked about Nikon's camera business being smaller than we expected, but they are actually the second largest manufacturer of a device called a stepper.

A stepper is an essential piece of equipment for manufacturing. What? Ouch, Ellis. Hint, it's in all of your phones. And it's not a camera. It's not. What else is it not? It's not a birdhouse that watches your birds.

It's not a part of a camera? They're in cameras. The thing it makes is in a camera. Stepper. Oh, I know the answer. Wow. Oh, I know the answer. That's crazy.

Wow. Way to go. Okay. Wait, let me write that down. I don't want to forget. But they're going to think about it too, and the answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

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Already. Already. Already. Okay, so we had our first case of somebody getting punished by selling their cyber truck or so be it we'll we'll get back to that later in the story but if you're unaware tesla has a kind of confusing stipulation about purchasing a cyber truck right now where if you remember back when the f-150 first came out there was this clause in it that you couldn't sell it for a year do you remember that the lightning yeah sorry the f-150 lightning and that whole thing stemmed from

Do you remember that? The lightning. The lightning. Yeah, sorry, the F-150 lightning. And that whole thing stemmed from essentially people wanted it and they were going to resell it. So in order to combat reselling, dealerships were marking it up horribly. And then that got in the press and that was terrible. So then Ford was like, if we put this no selling for one year clause, maybe dealerships will not mark it up as bad.

That didn't work at all. They still marked it up. But that was the idea idea behind it and people weren't very happy about this i just bought something i should be able to do whatever i want with it yeah um so then now tesla the reason they're doing something very similar um the reason it's a little more confusing is because when you're first placing orders this clause was there then they removed it now it's back in so if you are buying a cyber truck right now pretty much you cannot sell it within the first year um if you try to sell it within that first year you can ask tesla for approval to resell it um and if they approve it they get first dibs at buying it um at the final price sheet plus 25 cents per mile reasonable wear and

tear minus 25 minus 25 yeah sorry um minus 25 cents per mile reasonable wear and tear and the repair of the vehicle to tesla's standards if they approve you but decline to buy it then you can resell it but if you breach the terms they tesla says they can seek injunctive relief to prevent the transfer of the title of the vehicle or demand liquidated damages from you in the amount of fifty thousand dollars or the value received as consideration for the sale or transfer whichever is greater they'll just take your money if you sell it it sounds like they're trying to get either the amount of money you made on top of it or $50,000. Just wait the year.

Yeah, I mean, they're trying to make, I assume, a consequence that's high enough to where it's going to prevent people from reselling. I feel like people could still, if they just like didn't really drive it for a year, could still flip it in a year for more. Well, the thing about the Cy cyber truck is it is currently extremely rare yeah and they're aiming for it to be mass produced so in the window between now and when it is mass produced is when you can make the most money flipping in so as of right now we just took delivery of cyber truck it's very very hard to get a cyber truck and there are a very very small number of auctions of people actually like selling cyber trucks And they're going for two hundred three hundred thousand dollars because it's almost impossible To get one otherwise super super high demand super low supply one supply

Matches demand nobody can sell these things for over sticker anymore So everyone who got gets one is like a little bit tempted like oh i have this super rare thing i kind of would like to flip it but everyone hates flipping and flippers and so in order to combat flippers this is the thing that tesla's decided to do which is just make it against the rules to flip it yeah um but then the other half of that is yeah i own it i should be able to do whatever i want if someone wants to spend 300 grand for it i should be able to just let them do it so yeah it is kind of a weird place that they're in uh it is there's a much better idea though no yeah i mean in this when the the ford f-150 lightning happened it was similar people were flipping them dealerships were marking them up this was their attempt at combating it they did a similar thing where you're not supposed to

sell it for one year i don't know what their punishments were. If we remember the Hummer EV, people were reselling that. There was no clause like this, but didn't we meet someone who's like, I bought a drawer for two weeks and then made like $40,000 on selling it? And to people that's totally worthy. Here's the thing about this though. There's one more piece in the agreement as well after what you read, which is Tesla can also blacklist you from ever buying another Tesla ever again. Perfect. And the thing about people who buy Cybertrucks is they love Tesla, especially in this early stage. So they really want to be able to get the Roadster and whatever future Cybertruck, whatever they're going to buy.

So they really don't want to take the risk. So did you see Doug DeMuro's video? No no i have that in here that's saying he so he wants to review the cyber truck and the way he wants to operate is you know cars and bids he has this website where you can sell cars so typically his method is when he reviews a car he reviews a car that's literally going to be sold on cars and bids okay so if he reviews the new lamborghini sterato it's because that one is being sold and here's the listing you can buy the car he just reviewed so his strategy is okay i'm not gonna review a cyber truck until i get one listed on cars and bids but the thing about the cyber truck is you can't sell it for a year so everyone who's thinking about selling it

i mean you should watch this video it's's really interesting, but like, they're like, can you like hide the VIN number and like, make sure Tesla doesn't know that it's me. And like, maybe my username is like, not my name. So hopefully Tesla doesn't find out and kind of like these skittish sellers, like thinking, maybe I'll sell it. And then backing out, like, nevermind, I sold someone else a private part. Nevermind, I'm not going to do it. So he hasn't been able to get his hands on one. I'm sure he will soon. But the blacklisting part is what I think is getting to people is they want to keep getting Tesla. Well, and so that's what we see here is we have the first case of that happening. Somebody posted on the Tesla Cybertruck Owners Club forum that moving forward,

any future orders placed by you will be canceled without a refund of the $100 reservation or the $250 order fee as official notification has been provided to you regarding this matter. So this person had a Cybertruck. I don't know what they said. They were just feeling it out on selling it. And it was up on CarGurus with the VIN vin number which is where i don't know if car gurus just finds local sales and puts it all up there but he had it listed for 242 069 dollars so it was two four twenty sixty nine sure so like kind of meme i guess but he also claims there were like 20 other cyber truck listings on car gurus but he did have two other cyber trucks

reserved that got canceled and he did have two other Cybertrucks reserved that got canceled. And he did get the reservation fees back for that because that was before they told him any future ones will be canceled without being refunded. So he did get that back. And I'm assuming he's not facing this $50,000 because it never actually sold. So he didn't actually sell it. But now someone who has two other Cybertruck reservations are now canceled. sell it but now someone who has two other cyber truck reservations are now canceled yeah that's i so before i took delivery i read the agreement it's literally if if tesla thinks you're thinking about selling it what yeah if you list it anywhere if you like scout buyers like that's enough for them to totally blacklist you i totally think even though he's just like memeing around and i think

it's kind of funny that he memed a little too close to the sun and got his excuses he's memeing around but he had one and he was like i wonder if i could sell it let's see who bites that's enough for if they both they would yeah for sure i don't i think this breaks the agreement for sure whether or not you agree about the agreement this breaks the agreement yeah but yeah we did see an actual guy get blacklisted now because he yeah he put it up for a meme so that's the precedent so now everyone else who thought that maybe they could get away with it is now like maybe i don't want to publicly flip this or list it on a site that tesla could find it even if you like change hands in the app tesla can find out like they obviously your app is attached to your account so yeah there's a lot of

a lot of that going on. If you sell privately, the VIN number gets transferred in the reservation or the registration, right? So like they could figure that out no matter, like you would have to basically be like, I'm selling this to you, but it's going to stay under my name for a year. And it's going to stay in my app. Sketch, super, super sketchy.

There was a ton of backlash when Ford tried to do this, but I think it was more around for dealerships having like really terrible market prices and being in the bad spotlight i guess i guess my take is as much as i hate flipping if you're a company that doesn't have dealerships this is probably the most effective way to prevent flipping i can't think of any other way and this is new to cyber truck and maybe there's like some image that they're trying to uphold but with the cyber truck specifically but like lots of other companies do things just like this for gt all of ferrari yeah uh porsche does this with like their high-end gt cars like they don't want you to

flip it but a lot of those also have dealerships which will sell you the car plus a markup which is basically what you would have to pay if you're buying a flipped one so that it's sort yes so yeah with with tesla you can only buy one for sticker period which i guess is a good thing but then you can't flip it yeah i i totally get the argument of like i own it i shouldn't be able to do it i hate flipping though like with a passion and yeah i would like to see it stop i wish people just didn't solely do this so people who just want to enjoy something can enjoy it for the real price and not have to pay a lot but that's what i was gonna say i don't totally hate the the clause i mean yeah i don't like to

yeah i can't think of it yeah i just i just dislike flipping so much i think when ford did it i was like i didn't really love it but i thought it was a necessary attempt or like an attempt and i didn't mind it that much but did you see what the ford gt story was no back in the day so they made a new ford gt which is like this half million dollar supercar and in order to even buy one you had to be invited by ford so that first of all was like almost no one's going to even get a chance to buy one of these special cars but in the off chance that you are such a high on the list ford vip they'll let you buy one but you're not allowed to sell it for i think a year or something and i think there's a

famous story about like John Cena getting invited to buy one, and he's like, alright, awesome, great. And he buys it, and he can't fit in it, and he's like, well, I need to sell it now. And they didn't want to let him sell it. And it was a whole story. It was a whole thing. So, anytime a company tries to prevent you from selling a thing that you own,

it feels wrong, because you own it. Of course, you should be able to sell your property. But, yeah, it's been a car thing for a long time. it feels wrong because you own it of course you should be able to sell your property but yeah that's a it's been a car thing for a long time i'm a fan of it i think it's a great idea maybe we should just all buy things that we need and let people buy things at regular price i don't know i hate flipping so much so much about dealership markups i hate dealership because that's basically i think that's a little different though because a dealership markups? I hate dealership markups. Because that's basically flipping. I think that's a little different, though, because a dealership markup, I don't know the ins and out of it,

but it's a whole company running on things. To me, it's just as bad as flipping. I don't think it's just as bad as flipping. It is. I think it is. I mean, you go to the grocery store and you buy a box of cereal that they're paying a lesser price for.

Right, but that has an MSRP. Yeah, so that has a manufacturer's suggested retail price and you know going in that the grocery store paid wholesale and you're paying msrp and the sticker price is the sticker i guess it's like there's mark markup markups like we're talking like egregious markups okay yeah agree that's like there's always going to be some sort of a like yeah delivery fee and some stupid fees at a dealership which is i don't't like them, but I don't think they're as bad as flipping. I'll try to find the link. There's a YouTuber who did like a whole three part series talking about what it's like to try to buy a Porsche 911 GT3 RS right now. It is basically impossible to buy one at sticker.

There's only two ways to get one. there's only two ways to get one. One is if you are a Porsche VIP and the other is buying one like third party with a huge markup because they flipped it. But the thing about becoming a Porsche VIP is the only way to do that is to buy a bunch of other cars from that specific Porsche dealership over time

so that you spent so much money with them and then sold the cars back to them for a loss that you basically have lost the amount of money that you would have made if you flipped the car so let's say it's a two hundred thousand dollar car you need to buy a million dollars worth of cars and sell them all back to that dealership and lose a hundred thousand dollars so that you can buy that car for sticker so you basically paid three hundred thousand even though it's a two hundred thousand dollar sticker that makes sense so the dealerships get their money out of this super rare car yeah and that's kind of the way i dislike dealerships

a lot i want to make that clear there's yeah yeah and some of the insane markups we've seen lately are really stupid and dealerships i would rather do direct-to-consumer on everything with an MSRP. I also feel like it's a little different with, like, cars like that, though. Like, those supercars that are selling for that amount of money, it's almost like predatory behavior. And Tesla isn't really, like, they're trying to be more about the common person, selling to people that actually want it. I agree. This car's sticker is only 2.5 x to tesla which is like yeah it's it's expensive it's a supercar but it's not like a it's not like

a 4gt or like a million dollar car the porsche yeah how much is the the porsche it might be 250 sticker okay but the only way to get one new today would be to spend literally $400,000 on a flipped one. Or to somehow become, I mean, this guy in his YouTube series gets on the phone and they're like, yeah, you can buy three Porsche Taycans right now and we'll give it to you for sticker. No way. That's actually what they offer. Here's a question. And it might not be exactly like you might not be able to tell this easily but is there are these people straight up buying and flipping or are they buying and it's

just appreciating after they've actually used it for a while technically yes both like this is a car that is so rare that the only way to get one is to pay way over sticker because it's hard to get uh but it's not like buy it, garage, immediately start trying to sell it? No, people are doing it. I'm sure people are doing it. That's what people are doing. They're getting blacklisted because Porsche hates that. So yeah.

You know, the bodega is, the entire business model of the bodega is to flip grocery store products for a much higher margin. Just for convenience? Just for convenience? Yeah, because they're open almost 24, I have a bunch around me that are open 24-7, but if I go to the cheap grocery store that's only open until 8 p.m., I can buy a box of Honey Nut Cheerios for $2.50.

If I go to the bodega, it's $7. And they usually have a cat. But they're not flipping it. They're also buying from distributors just in lower quantities, so they have narrower margins. I don't know if they are. No, no.

The bodega guy is not going to the grocery store. Disagree. I've seen it happen. I'm pretty sure they're doing that. Our B-Shirt guy is going to Costco and just reselling. Doing that. I can confirm like bodegas use proper distribution chains. Probably not everyone.

Might depend on. Maybe not everyone. I don't know. But I think there's other reasons the bodega margins are well their margins are high because it's convenience like they they charge higher prices because of convenience even if they buy from the distributor you could say that that's flipping right because it's above msrp isn't the same thing because you're not taking supply out of the general pool yeah that's that's what i yeah i get the difference yeah now my least favorite thing is like it's two in the morning but people who find like really good sales where someone who maybe has been looking for a product

and it's like oh i couldn't afford that now it's on sale i'd love to grab that and someone buys all of it and then sells it for like its normal price on Amazon and flips it for like that infuriates me. Yeah. There's a whole shoe conversation in there too. Yeah. That's I hear you guys like talk and Alex, I'll talk about that all the time. It's like you just you get lucky enough.

You win the sneakers app thing. You never even expect to wear it. Sell it immediately. Because when you win, I've never done this, but when you win, you get to buy it at sticker right yeah just msrp i believe and that's the lottery ticket to like buy it at sticker and then immediately turn around and sell it for way more than sticker because very few people you can go like on ebay immediately after really impressive shoe drops and you'll just see like screenshots of got them and it's like yeah i'm getting yeah guaranteed sale yeah it happens with every new product

like when the what's that little new game boy thing that came out the limited edition not the play date the analog pocket they do limited edition drops all the time of different colors and if you go on ebay it's always like guaranteed pre-order like locked in

pre-order and they sell it for like over the amount that they bought it for keyboards do it a ton Garrett from Omnini type was telling me how they only made 500 of the bauer 2 and he said immediately after the raffle went out because 8 000 people applied like half of them were on sale do you think if someone like the price do you think if someone like that said if i find out you flipped my keyboard i will never let you buy one of my keyboards again do you think that that would work i have no idea i think most people flipping those things aren't that interested in the keyboard anymore and they just make their money that's why i think some of these

cyber truck people the fifty thousand dollar fine is more in there to be like well we'll come after you for for whatever you whatever because if it's just like we'll blacklist you i'm sure there's people will just be like did i get in the reserve it's a hundred dollar refundable reservation why not take that gamble of trying to make some money but you can never flip another tesla again yeah bro if you can make like fifty thousand dollars off of literally nothing yeah a hundred dollar like for a lot of people it's worth it five-year gamble but your salary just like boom yeah somehow every tech story comes back to taylor swift but didn't taylor swift do this with her ticket sales where like if you tried to get a ticket for the tour

you had to like answer questions that only fans would know or something like that you had to buy merch you had to buy like x dollars of for not the most recent tour for two tours ago before her and ticket master were were angry at each other back when they were still homies there was a thing where like before the tour got announced she did a merch drop and then everyone who bought x dollars worth of merch got the link first to buy tickets to the tour that kind of reminds me i think tesla is literally doing that with stockholders in taylor's defense she has like the craziest scalper problem in the world like yeah it's wild yeah the stockholder thing just got announced this morning right yeah or yesterday yeah literally tesla's giving early dibs on cyber truck deliveries to people who have owned the stock for a certain amount of time

or something oh yeah it was like before a certain date if you owned it before a certain date you were able to so kind of similar to taylor swift. Oh, you've been a fan for a while, huh? Okay. Yeah, you'll get first dibs. You probably aren't going to flip it. You probably actually will like and enjoy. That's the thing is they just want you to own and enjoy the thing instead of flipping it. That's maybe a good filter for them. Yeah, that's funny. Early Cybertruck delivery for verified long term Tesla shareholders. If you're an eligible long term Tesla holder and holder and you made a cyber truck reservation prior to march 1st 2024 you can get your foundation series cyber truck early that's only like loopholes and you need 500 shares that's so confusing but people have had reservations for like four years at this point right so someone who has a lot of stock don't have any stock

and only made the reservation a month ago not even two weeks ago can can get up and skip the line there's other requirements there's like five of them i think but that's like the gist of you have to have 500 so i guess tesla's problem is they have a giant list of three million people and they're trying to decide who should get the cars first when they know that hidden within these three million people is lots of flippers so how do we filter through hopefully in chronological order how to deliver these trucks to people who will not flip it somebody with 500 shares is going to get their early cyber truck sell their shares sell their cyber truck and just retire you have to have you have to have at least

eighty five thousand five hundred dollars worth of tes of Tesla stock to be able to be eligible for this. Oh, that's a fan. Well, they could have gotten that way less, but that means they also have made that much money. I could see Tesla eventually just doing the Ticketmaster throw in the towel and just be like, we know you're going to flip these trucks. We're going to create a platform for you to flip these trucks we're gonna create a platform for you to flip them or we can take a cut that's damn yeah because it's like i mean tesla x live nation it's like when ticketmaster started doing that i was like this is the worst

possible solution but i i don't have any better ones you know like how do you because i'm with you edra it's like if you're gonna buy something just own it yeah i mean like don't take it away from someone who would really want it yeah that's what makes me the most mad is it's taking it away from someone who would have actually like enjoyed it well the bodegas you know but it's okay with the bodegas because there's a cat there it helps a lot i will tell you that it helps a lot but i still am not happy paying seven dollars for some milk that's just any convenience store too i've had to do it too like run to a 7-eleven for just like something like that and you're paying 30 more i would not buy milk at a 7-eleven that's not true andrew that's not true tell me where else

you're gonna get a taquito for a dollar 89 okay you eat those set up from where big to show fan i still go to 7-eleven as long as where do they have taquitos every 7-eleven well that's a problem that's a good place to take a break i think we got a bunch more to talk about with spotify and with tiktok so let us take that break and let's also do a trivia. Yeah. You didn't do that the first time around. Yeah, you messed up. No, no, no.

Well, it's variable. I don't know. Just keeping you on your toes. You're not awake. So that was a whole section about cars. And beds. We got a car question. I don't like cars.

In 1902. No, it's not a car question i don't like oh boy in 1902 no it's not a car question there were 909 new automobiles registered in the united states 485 of which that's more than half were powered by what's now uncommon propulsion technology the media tech to men city 9000 pro pro i actually have a guess on that wait powered by the what powered by what now uncommon propulsion technology uncommon i think it's is it growing in commonality well-worded question i'm not i plead the fifth we'll think about it and we'll be right back you've always wanted to be part of something bigger than yourself you live for experience

and lead by example you want the most out of life and realize what you're looking for is already in you. This is for you. The Canadian Armed Forces. A message from the Government of Canada. Welcome back, everybody. If you're like me and you have never used TikTok in your life,

well, are you in for a treat? Because TikTok... Wait, in your life? I do not have a TikTok account. But you've never even used it? I've seen TikToks in a web browser when people send me TikTok links, but I've never used the app before. That's crazy.

That's like not having a child. What do you do? do yeah what do you do with your time this is why i don't have the app okay yeah okay go on sorry because i know because instagram already does this to my brain right and they've you know i was telling adam this the other day instagram now is like 80 videos yeah three days after tiktok yeah sure yeah but it's just it's just i just don't want that i just don't want that i don't want to get into those like i i wake up i look at my phone and then it's 45 minutes later and i'm like i feel like i just woke up you know again that's what tiktok is yeah it's bad i don't want i don't want that anyway i love it so i do have instagram uh i use it like as a portfolio for my

photo things and unfortunately it's turning into a video service now, which I don't do. But, well, I do, but not. Anyway, it's fine. TikTok is allegedly working on an Instagram-like app, which I find hilarious because this happens in every single category of every single thing.

It's the lobster. It's the lobster. What? It's the crab. The crab. The carcinization. The carcinization, yeah. I's the lobster. What? It's the crab. The crab. The carcinization. The carcinization, yeah. I like how lobster we were confused, but crab we were like, oh, you're right.

Yeah, the crab. Wait, wait, can you explain it for people that don't know what the crab situation is? So every, is it like evolution always turns things into crabs? Is that the idea? That's what I vaguely remember it as. All roads point to crab evolution. We're all crawling towards crab. TikTok added longer videos

and then longer videos and then now it's just like full-length videos just like YouTube. Yeah. While YouTube added shorts and it's just like you guys are doing this.

Yeah, towards the crab. Yeah, towards the crab. Same with Instagram. Instagram has been adding, they added reels and now it's like tiktok tiktok and then all of their content is moving towards tiktok and it's it it reminds me of the we use the the meta rayman glasses versus the oculus quest uh video that we did where they're sort of they're racing towards each other and like whichever one wins first is going to be interesting but it's the same thing it's like well instagram is trying to copy tiktok tiktok's trying to copy instagram but now tiktok's

really trying to copy instagram by just making an instagram app because i think that they're trying to take advantage of this hole in the market where all of these actual like photographer people who just want to see photos and are really annoyed at the fact that you cannot turn off like these videos on instagram are complaining constantly about how there's no just like video feed version of instagram anymore and i think tiktok yeah photo sorry photos you want straight photos yeah i just want straight photos yeah because i don't want to wake up 25 minutes after looking at my instagram app and realized I've been watching reels, you know? So yeah, theoretically, somebody found in an APK breakdown of TikTok, they found a bunch of code references to TikTok photos, which also referenced reaching other like-minded people who enjoy photo posts, which is a very, you know, marketing way to talk to photographers. And it also references syncing posts to TikTok photos,

which I assume means it's going to be photo-focused, but has TikToks in it, sort of how Instagram is theoretically supposed to be photo-focused with Reels in it. We'll also see if that happens because right now we're in the midst of the US attempting of the u.s attempting to ban tiktok yeah um which again again oh again yeah yeah like again it's been brought up

before it didn't happen um it's almost impossible to talk about this without getting into super politics so we prefer not to do that but it ultimately feels like the goal is less of a full ban and more of it to be owned by a u based company. And I think this morning, they actually passed a bill in the house to push it forward. So who knows what's gonna happen with TikTok even by the time this video comes out. Yeah, Biden said he would sign the bill if it got passed in the House and Senate, it got passed in the House. So now it has to pass in the Senate. There's like a low chance it will pass in the Senate. I have no idea. Yeah, there's like a low chance it will pass in the Senate. I have no idea. Yeah. There's theoretically a low chance it would pass in the Senate. If it did, though, they would basically try to force TikTok to sell it to like a US.

Away from ByteDance. Away from ByteDance. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So the idea of TikTok working on an Instagram app really frustrates me because I don't, it's sort of like this. It feels exactly like the Twitter blue sky threads thing where now I feel like compelled to post the

same content on every single social media platform just so I can get it out there. Like when I published my X 106 video, I like put it on Twitter and I was like, cool. And I was like, I should really put this on threads. So I put on threads and then a while went by and was like cool and I was like I should really put this on threads so I put on threads and then a while went by I was like there's a niche group of users on blue sky so I put on blue sky but I don't want to have to do that with my photo posts too you know and I also don't want a TikTok account and I feel like this is gonna push me to get a TikTok account it might be time you don't have to I don't have to David but Iiktok photos allows for super panoramas in high res quality okay he's in i have a i have a small short story i bought a new camera in japan that was not the nikon i bought two new cameras but then i kind of fm2 titanium

do you guys remember how i made the video on the 6x17 camera? Yeah. The 3D printed one? Yep. I bought a 6x24 camera. It's just going to be like a string of spaghetti by the end. Like how, this is the widest, narrowest. It's 4x1. Just a stock ticker. So the 6x17 is about 2.9 to 1. This is 4 to 1. Nice.

4 to 1. Don't tell Brandon. I have no idea how I'm going to show these on the internet it was just like your eyes and like everything around you so anyway yeah that was just a small aside I have no idea how I'm going to show

them on the internet Instagram I always have to you have to fit in a square so I always use the white box, and people hate that. But for threads, they natively let you do panoramas. It just shows up on the whole thing. But that's what I'm saying. What if TikTok Photos is a great photos app? Would you not want to use it just because it's better at doing these things?

No, I'd probably use it. That's what I'm saying. Competition is good, David. competition is good david yeah i competition is good and instagram doesn't have competition and also like i don't see why all of these social media companies wouldn't just try and basically steal other things when instagram essentially took everything from snapchat and yeah is like thriving in it now yeah and tiktok don't love it but yeah it's working for them so why would they ever stop instagram is snapchat instagram is youtube instagram is tiktok

yeah instagram is instagram wait can i you can't pause a reel in instagram right you can am i the other way around you hold it you can pause it and every app tick tock you am i that dumb it no no no no tap it mutes it hold it pauses it holding it pauses it i think so wait should i i'll try it should say that somewhere it just keeps muting for me i'm fine being an idiot you're not you got a kid you got other stuff to worry about i don't like that you have to hold it. It's frustrating. Oh, when it's in the feed? Yeah, then holding it doesn't do anything.

But once you're there, holding it pauses it. So you have to jump into the carousel first. Okay, so once it comes here, then that just unmutes it? Yeah. I did not know that. Holding is a terrible... I hope there's one other person who does not know that. Holding is a terrible UX decision.

Because it's invisible? No, because... Well, already. But it's more a terrible ux decision because it's invisible no because well already but it's it's more terrible decisions because you have to keep yeah what if you want to pause it because you have to go do something and then it's a 60 second video just watch it again bro that's you want to take a screenshot of it to like send to your friend you have to be you have to do this like weird like finagled thing where you like press power volume and hold it at the same time. It's very difficult. You should try TikTok. You can just pause it.

I want to keep my life. Are you downloading TikTok behind your computer right now? No. Sign up with your username right now. Stop. Speaking of crabs, no, this works, guys.

Trust me. Spotify adding music videos. um no this works guys that was good okay spotify are you sure oh no fair spotify adding music videos yeah so they're becoming youtube sort of kind of is that what's happening i just wanted to quickly talk about this so spotify is adding music videos for premium users it's rolling out in a bunch of different countries none of them the u.s uk germany italy the netherlands poland sweden brazil colombia philippines indonesia and kenya if you play a It's rolling out in a bunch of different countries, none of them the US, UK, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Sweden, Brazil, Colombia, Philippines,

Indonesia, and Kenya. If you play a song that has an associated music video, there will be a button that says switch to video. You can watch it full screen in landscape. And this is different than these like weird loops that we have in Spotify right now. Like the background. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just wanted to bring this up because it really feels like all the weird features we've covered that we've never liked over the past two years all just seem to be like, hey, I want you to look at our app. Because Spotify is definitely the app that I use a lot and never am inside of the app.

Yeah, background. That's a good point. Right? So yeah, Spotify's algorithms really solid. so i can play one song at the start of my car ride and it'll just play music that i'm interested in until the rest i never look at the app again it is never open for more than a minute yeah so all of these things are very remember the old tic-tac-scrolling thing it all felt like it was trying to get you inside of the app do they have ads inside spotify besides audio i'm a premium user so i don't ads? I'm a premium user, so I don't know. Yeah, I'm a premium user too.

What's the point of keeping you in the app if you're listening to it anyway? Don't know. Sell ads? Sell visual ads? Maybe sell scrolling data, like what you scroll on? Could be. It could be.

I guess like outside of ads, is it possible that artists can pay for, or like audio can pay for like specific spots or like premium like showing up on your page? Essentially, yeah. Like integrated ads almost. I don't know if that's possible, but Spotify does have other things. I don't know if they're doing it. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I'm pretty sure that Spotify has other sections of the app, like the merchandise and the concert. The concert ticket one is one where they want you to look at it for that. I actually do like that. I have gone to two concerts because of that. Actually, I have found concerts because of that. So Spotify is ticket master. It just alerts you to concerts that are happening.

you don't buy it inside. No, you don't. Oh, they're so close to doing. I'm sure there's some sort of affiliation where if you click through that and like yeah they probably get a um some so like a kickback yeah i'm sure affiliate revenue but yeah i don't know yeah i don't know why they're trying to keep you in their app i mean every app is trying to keep you in

their app so that makes sense but i mean if everything wants to if every app wants to be the everything app they got to start somewhere and then just expand slowly what they're good at into things that they're okay at until they get good at that too. And then just keep branching out. So Spotify, good at audio. Songs. Then they did podcasts because that's like right next to the whole song thing. It's background audio. Great.

And then they started having audio books. Yeah, audio books are in there. And then like there's lyrics also next to songs and maybe if we can get you in the app a little more visually there's like that little background video

that plays with the album art and then maybe you can get music videos if you want to watch the music video and then suddenly you scroll and then the next music video pops up

and suddenly you're scrolling and then now we have visual ads and then they just get more and more branched out until they're TikTok and here we are until they're a crowd and then TikTok adds audiobooks and then they just get more and more branched out until they're TikTok. And here we are. So they're a crap.

And then TikTok adds audio books and then we all just have everything everywhere. TikTok is adding podcasts. Really? Really? Yeah, we've talked about it on this before. See, yeah, they're doing the same thing. Yeah. I don't know.

I just thought that was kind of interesting. And they have shopping and they have live like shopping. TikTok shopping is the worst. It is, like, 90% of my videos now. Yeah. They have this really... No, there was a really great New York Times thing that they did where they were like, how much is TikTok pushing shopping?

So they tried to have one of their writers sell a mechanical pencil that he just had sitting on his desk. So he set up a shopping account like and it kicks you into a like a live video feed yeah where you like can go on and do this qvc thing and he was like i have this used mechanical pencil and he had like hundreds of viewers jesus because tiktok just like juices the the hell out of it trying to get people to i mean yeah hundreds of viewers is pretty easy on TikTok. It was a brand new account for a mechanical

pencil. I also, we do think that new TikTok accounts get good views off the start. Yeah. Or okay views off the start. But no, like, it's pretty much you can make a link to sell something on TikTok and then, like, you just make a video and it says, like, earns commission in the bottom or there's, like, a link to

it. So people just make dumb TikTok videos that might have this water bottle in it or something. And then you can click. So now every post is just like sponsored earns commission, earns commission, earns commission. One kind of funny one sponsored earns commission. It's terrible. And that's actually a huge part of the Google search circle to search integration push thing. Like all of their ads now that show Circle to Search, it's always like you're watching a YouTube video, you pause it, you circle on some shirt that some person's wearing in a YouTube video,

and then it brings up Google Shopping, and then you buy it. I've seen like three Google ads that are specifically targeted towards that. Yeah, it's always like a piece of, like a jacket or something. Yeah. Like, what's that purse?

And you just circle. I want the exact same one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. if spotify just did music well then they'd just be soundcloud okay so then audio all audio what if they just like became the youtube of audio i think they got that already bro you're never gonna 10x but then what are the investors gonna do 10x but then what are the investors gonna do it's a publicly traded you can't stop 10xing growth infinite growth infinite growth they're gonna be a bank next infinitely grow into a crab but yeah i ultimately it kind of feels like a bank sorry that's what everything does kind of feel like i was just gonna say like spotify has a solid algorithm to just let me play music and ever look at it is that backfiring now because they want more people inside of their app?

No. No? Because Spotify has a really serious financial interest in playing certain music over certain other music. And so that's what I was thinking about this whole time is like, why would they want you in the app? Because seemingly every time you click through their app you are earning them less money like if you can let them decide exactly what songs to play for you they can always choose the ones that have the lowest payout rates they can they can do that inside the app as well not if you're choosing a song they can feed you like if it's a tiktok type like carousel like why not feed you the music videos of the lower paying ones like that or that's true why not they start feeding you selling things that rather than paying less it makes them more money that's true and the songs that'll have music videos ready to

go are the major label releases which do have the lower payouts yeah sad it is sad glad it's totally consumer focused it's all for us it's all a good app for us what a bummer yeah but at least we can listen to music this is true yeah i do use it to listen to music that's why i only listen to old school runescape music well speaking of listening to music play the trivia trivia see what i did there ellis was i'm very impressed that ellis is right thank you thank you for being on the same page always yeah always all right also just want to say i got distracted because not that literally anyone outside of this room would know this but we had a little numbering error last week where or two weeks ago we wrote episode 215 in our like internal docs as 216 and then we accidentally did like another episode 216 and this is 217 but i wanted to bring it up because episode

116 was my first episode was it really which means i have done 100 waveform episodes that's wild happy to be here i know isn't it time flies it really really does wow anyway to honor my 100th episode this episode we talked about nikon's camera business being smaller than expected but they are currently the second largest manufacturer of a device called a stepper, which is an essential piece of equipment for the manufacturing of what? What do you make with a stepper? Wait, can I have a eraser, please? Eraser? Wait, so the thing that you make is a component that gets put in a phone?

Yeah. We're listing the thing that it makes, not like the process of how it gets made. If you name the process, I will be seriously impressed. Okay, I'm going to be wrong on this, but that's the only guess I have. And it's more of the process. Okay, that's fine. Let's see it. We're all very different here.

Motor. All right, that is... That's so generic. Incorrect. we're all very i wrote motor all right that is that's so generic incorrect so my thought process on stepper is like stepping different levels of like cnc machine i see what you're thinking yeah but cnc is wrong incorrect unfortunately david you wrote i wrote pedometer stepper i see none of us who was the closest uh frankly dang um the so the full name of a stepper is a wafer stepper because it is a central piece of machinery to build chips and you could have said wafer stepper and i would have been wrong still does it get put in um the asml lithography machines it is the lithography machines wait but asml makes those uh asml is the largest

manufacturer of them with nikon being the second largest wait really fact check is that true according to wikipedia According to Wikipedia. Quick update on the score. Oh, yeah. Marquez with four. Andrew with one, two. Carry the one, two. David. The one's doing a lot of work. Carrying the one all by yourself, just one.

I was in Japan. Yep. Next question. In 1902, there were 909 new automobiles registered in the United States, 485 of which, that's more than half, were powered by what now uncommon propulsion technology? The power of love is not it. It's a curious thing Makes one man weak

And another man sing Sure You don't know The Muffin Man The Muffin Man Alright I think we're all gonna have the same answer Yes I know

The Muffin Man Oh I think we're all going to have the same answer. Yes, I know. The Muffin Man. What do you guys got? We don't all have. I have the electric motor. Wrong. I have steam engine. Okay.

Correct. Half of all cars in 1902 were steam cars that's nuts what were the other half i thought that made perfect sense the other half were gasoline but um there might have been a few experimental electric cars out there a few years after that the electric starter motor was finished which made gasoline cars much easier to own than steam cars um and then by the time 1920 came around steam cars were pretty much not a thing anymore and they all have very funny names like stanley steamer and stuff wait really i'm realizing there was a there was a a stanley steam car company but maybe the stanley steamers Steam Car Company, but maybe the Stanley Steamers. I think that's separate.

Anyway, we learned something new today about crabs, about cars, about Nikon, about TikTok, about Spotify. And if you put all that information together in your head, surely you got

something out of this podcast. Don't call me surely sorry anyway thanks for watching thanks for listening catch you guys next week peace waveform is produced by adam melina and ellis rovan we're partnered with vox media podcast network and our tractor music is created by vane silk bingo lemon pepper stepper all right lemon pepper stepper