We Are Chelsea - How Emma Hayes created a winning machine

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

This is We are Chelsea, the official podcast of Chelsea Women, brought to you in association with Škoda, the official car partner of Chelsea Women and proud supporters of women's sport. www.skoda.co.uk Today, Caz De Moraes is joined by a key member of Emma Hayes backroom staff, Stuart Searle. He has been the goalkeeping coach at the club since 2012 and has been an integral part of their success, during a trophy laden period. In this episode, Stuart gives a fascinating insight into what goes into creating a winning team like Chelsea, how a typical day at Cobham works and about the culture that Emma Hayes has developed during her time at the club. Remember to subscribe and leave a review, wherever you get your podcasts! Send us your questions to [e-mail] To watch the full episode on YouTube, click here: https://www.youtube.com/@chelseafc/videos #WeAreChelsea Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I have run out of superlatives to say about Emma Hayes. She's a leader. She's a friend to me and my family. She's been a mentor over the years. She drives standards. I think everything's there to be seen. I don't think there's any more anyone can say than what is out there for everyone to see for themselves. Hello and welcome to We Are Chelsea.

the official podcast of Chelsea Women brought to you in association with Skoda, who are the official car partner of Chelsea women and proud supporters of women's sport. I'm Casdemore's and today we've got a very different episode for you because I'll be chatting to one of the amazing coaches here to find out exactly what it takes to create a team like Chelsea. Stuart Searle has been the goalkeeping coach here since 2012

and he has been an integral part of their success during this trophy-laden period. Welcome to We Are Chelsea. Well, hello, welcome to We Are Chelsea. How are you today? I'm good. Thank you very much. Have you had training already? Finished, done and dusted. Another one done. Another one done. For those that don't know, tell us exactly what your role is. I mean, we know you're a goalkeeping coach, but tell us exactly. Oh, goodness. I am the one that hides in the background. Yeah, I'm one of the

back from staff. So I'm the goalkeeping coach. I've been Emma's goalkeeping coach for 11 years now. Obviously work really closely with her over the years, the growth of the game. So I must have done something right to have lasted this long. I love that. You have a very interesting story too. I'm not sure if this is true, but apparently you used to be a boot boy for Vinnie Jones. Yes, my upbringing was part of the crazy gang, the old Wimbledon crazy gang. Yes, I was a scholar there and I have a few stories. that era like? It was, it wouldn't be allowed now, of course, it wouldn't be allowed now modern day, but it was enlightening and my first experience of professional football. It was

character building and most of all, it was actually quite fun. I mean, it was hugely demanding, but, you know, all the stories that you hear have been out there about some of the crazy gang players are probably mostly true, but what you don't hear and I think it's sematical to all professionals across the board is all the good things that they do do. And what they do, and what they did do to look after us was as young kids because, you know, I was 17, 18 years of age at the time, you know, and they did all they could. You looked after them. They looked after you in different ways. Now, talking about Chelsea, you've been here so long now. How has the club evolved since you started? I'm kind of almost as old as this bit of furniture I'm sitting

on, I think, here. So yeah, probably about 20 years on and off. I had a few years away from here when I left to play professionally and live out my dream. But, yeah, the evolution of the club, I think my first year here as part of the Boys Academy was the first year they moved into this training ground. And how this training ground has changed from that time is unbelievable. I think obviously other people may have caught up now. I'm probably not allowed to say that.

But, you know, it's still a great place to come to work every day. now a lot of people don't really get to know or see or hear from the backroom staff so how many people are involved in emma's background staff first is a reason you don't hear from us that's right because emma's got a big voice and a big mouth and she likes to be at the forefront no there are all there's probably about 25 26 of us now full-time staff so it is a team behind the team um i know emma references that and the players referenced that quite a lot so yeah between technical performance, medical, welfare, you know, the academy, there's different departments that do different things all the time.

So, yeah. So that's the structure, and I guess 25 people is a big team, and that's not even including the players. So how do you guys all adapt to gel and work together constructively? Firstly, we, you know, it's set out what the guidelines are and what we want to do at the very beginning of the season, what the objectives are. We've created a culture here,

and has created that culture over the last five or six years that everyone buys into. We then obviously have the leads in each department which work together to form a multidisciplinary team. You know, and then we put the players in the middle of that multi-disciplinary team and work around the individual and the individual periodisation that we do for the players and then outside of that is the team periodisation which is what we do for the whole team and when you get to see us on Sky and everything else that's the training part of it but

you know the player is at the forefront of everything the individual because everyone's different so everyone needs different things at different times so there's a lot of detail that goes into it and sometimes the players don't always like it, but I think deep down they know that we're doing it for them and we're doing the right things to get the outcomes on the pitch that we've had and I think results have spoke for themselves over the last 11 years. Absolutely. Talk to me about how the relationship first came about

between you and Emma and working together. So Emma, my relationship with Emma started, Emma had been appointed and was a few months in and needed the goalkeeping coach and one of her assistants, Rob Upberg at the time, who was working with Paul Green. I was working with him

in the international department. The international department, we were doing work with partner clubs around America and around Asia. So I was traveling here, there and everywhere and roaming around the world,

much to my wife's discuss. But Robb sort of put my name forward to Emma and Emma dropped me a call and I was like, who's this? I'm Emma Hayes. I'm the women's first. team manager, I want you to be on my goal team coach. I was like, I'm not sure about this.

Sort of left it for a little while. And then a couple of days later, have you had a thought about my proposition? I was like, I'll leave it a little bit longer. Because at the time, obviously, it was a big thing. Women's football wasn't really known there. It's certainly not within the club. You know, you knew it was here, but it was almost a tick box, you know, for the club. To have a women's team, women's academy, you know, no one really knew anything about the players,

other than the players that might have been playing for England at the time. I mean, that's even pre-Lioness time. So I actually knew Carly Telford before I came down here through a glove sponsor. The guy called Glenn Johnson, who runs Pro-GK Gloves, he sponsored Carly and he sponsored me. And we kind of happened to bump into each other at an event. And I'd said to Carly about, like, Emma offering me a job.

And she's like, yeah, come, come. Because it means I can get a proper goalkeeping coach for the first time. So I sort of built a relationship with Carly that's been forever then, since then. And I eventually got back to Emma and said, look, yeah, it's fine. I'll happily do it. And, you know, what's the expectation? She's like, well, we'll just pay you to come in and do a few sessions with Carly, tick her over. I wasn't even going to games at that point.

It really was just part-time football, a couple of afternoons. because Carly was on a central contract with England, so she could train through the day. So the FAA were funding that. So it gave me the opportunity to fit all my working hours between the International Department, the Boys Academy, and now the women's. Gosh, so there were quite a few moving parts happening.

There was at the time. It was like putting a piece of a jigsaw together. You know, it was where can we pull money from one place to put it into another place and it was a moving jigsaw constantly and I think in those early days it was how Paul and Emma could manipulate the budget

that they were working under which was a smidgen of what it is now to fit what they needed in there. Did you imagine back then that the game would have evolved the way that it has? Personally no, but the way the story Emma told me

I think she knew that it would blow up eventually at some point. I think it certainly escalated over a quicker period of time than what the story was told. But for me, it's been great to be part of the journey. What's Emma like on a day-to-day basis? Depends in what context.

You take this one now. No, Emma's brilliant. Emma's fantastic. I mean, I have run out of superlatives to say about Emma Hayes. She's a leader. She's a friend to me. and my family she's been a mentor over the years

she drives standards so I think everything's there to be seen I don't think there's any more anyone can say than what is out there for everyone to see for themselves how would you describe her coaching style Emma's coaching style she's demanding hell she's demanding

I'm sure the players have told you that but you know what she's fair and she's inclusive she just wants to win she just wants to win and she wants to get the players to join the journey just as much as she wants to get the staff to join the journey she's great

she's really hands on on the pitch I don't think it would I would be lying if I was to say sometimes she can unravel a mess in about five minutes you know she really thrives on not knowing what's going on so for her

we've got two different leaders we have Emma that can do something something out of nothing and you have Denise who's so process driven that she has to go over things 20 times before she delivers it. Okay. So what it does create is a really nice balance of quality so that the players know where they stand and how messages get translated and received.

So yeah, I mean, that's the inclusivity part of it. The players are always at the heart of everything that we do. It's quite difficult, I'd imagine, being on. your side of things and having to deal with so many different personalities and especially for Emma having to deal with so many personalities because someone might want things done in one way and someone might want things done in a completely different way. There are some players that if you not threaten them but if you say you know you've got to prove to me otherwise you're going to be benched they might really revel and they might really thrive off that and others

need maybe a bit more support and need words of encouragement. How do you deal with adapting to different personalities? Well, firstly, it's made me about a husband by getting to understand how women work a little bit more. Yeah, I mean, I could tell you a few stories of what Emma's introduced to us, male staff in the around environment. But again, it's all, it's the way that she leads. She wants everybody to understand what their role is. and how she wants them to play their part within that.

Of course, it's generational to answer your question. I think it's generational. I think players that are the elder generation, and I don't mean that disrespectfully, the Millies and the Frans and the Sofis, you know, they're from a different generation to what the Neves and the Micahs and the Hannahamptons are in how they learn how much they've been coached in the past

because I think, you know, the slightly more senior players will have had to go through that point in their career where they've had to really strive for everything they've got to remember when Sophie was first here, first time round, and I just started. She was living in, I think, down in Yoville, down in the West Country, and she was travelling up and back on a day, on a sessionally basis, whereas now they're based,

10, 20 minutes from the training ground. So I think it comes back to that era of professionalism. And the senior players probably know what it's like to fight for that professionalism and fight for their rights within that and their place in the hierarchy, whereas the younger players are coming from an era where coaching is the norm for them. So the way that they've learned and the way that they demand more and more from the staff and how they want it is obviously very different. But like I say, the puzzle is putting everything together

and it's the way that Emma and not only Emma, but Denise and Paul, myself, we managed to put that puzzle together to get the results that we've deserved for our performances over the years. We know as well that Emma is an elite coach. Everyone talks about, especially now that we know that she's leaving, everyone's talking about how legendary and iconic she's been here. But what do you think it is about her personality that has made her so legendary and such an elite coach? Firstly, it's infectious.

I mean, look, who can't like Emma Hayes? At the end of the day, she will do, she'll drop the F-bomb every now and again, live on telly, aren't she? Or she'll drop the mic at the end of the season. You know, you never really can tell what's going to come next from now, but there's always a rationale behind it. You know, she does everything for a reason. She gives messages to the press because that's what she wants to do. Whereas on another occasion, she will protect everybody in this environment and put the focus on her.

I think what it is is what it's what being a top leader is. And that's what Emma is. She's a leader. She's not just a manager or a coach. She's a leader of people. And you jump on board with that journey. You jump on her boat and she'll travel across the world with you. But it's also down to trust.

and there's a lot of trust put into individuals both staff and players that people understand their roles and they know how to play their roles over the course of the season the introduction of the finishes and it's now become a common term but we looked into that four or five years ago

as to how can we help the players that aren't playing buy into what we need them to buy into And that's the thing about Emma. She gets you to buy into the objective, you know, that's at the beginning of the season. And that's always to win every trophy, to win every game. And it's not always the greatest environment when we lose,

let alone when we don't win a trophy. So, I mean, it's been good that we've gone trophy-less for, I think it's only maybe one or two seasons. So in the time we've been here. But, you know, it's that infectious personality that she has you know she makes you want to do things for her everyone that i've spoken to has talked about how competitive they are and how competitive emma is and how she really drives that competition even in training sessions i think i spoke to neve the other day and she was like she'd

lost so she was gutted and hannah had won on her team so hannah was like really happy can you give me an insight into what a training session with emma is like. Chaos. Absolutely chaos. No, I mean, there's a structure. There's a structure to what we work with and Denise is at the forefront of all of that. You know, Emma will Denise, Emma will deliver the attacking side of things. Denise will deliver the defensive side of things. I'll deliver the restarts and look after the goalkeepers on the side. So that there are clear boundaries as to who's doing what. The players will always know who's delivering. at what moment because it's set out so they understand what the the periodisation looks like

and what the session planning looks like so everything's there for them to understand for them to buy into those structures and that are there but when you actually get out on the grass I mean who wouldn't want to be a professional plan for Chelsea women at the moment yeah you know we have great facilities we have fantastic people and it just creates for great mix as as we get on a daily basis, you know, players are competitive. The standard of training is phenomenal. You know, and we've got world, world class players. You know, international breaks are great here because we don't have anyone here,

so it gives us a bit of downtime and stuff, but, you know, unless any of the injured players are in. But, you know, that kind of tells you what the quality of squad we have. And just because we have that number of quality players, there's always going to be a competitive nature. edge to what you do and if you didn't have that edge then I don't think we would be successful because I think you need to have that edge whether that's something that Emma creates because you know she just wants to create that little bit of feistiness on the pitch

she wants to keep players on their toes you know the minute that you get comfortable you're dead I love that the minute you get comfortable you're dead you are in this environment that's for sure you don't win if you get comfortable you don't This podcast is brought to you by Scoda, the official car partner of Chelsea women and proud supporters of women's sport. Whether you're playing five-a-side after work, cheering the kids on from the sidelines on a Saturday morning, or gathering with your mates to watch the big leagues at the weekend. Skoda's the perfect companion for your everyday adventures. Zip around town in the fully electric eniac or give the squad a lift home in the all-new seven-seater Kodiak.

There's something in the range to suit teams of all shapes and size. Don't just take my word for it. Search the SCODA range today to jump in and see for yourself. I spoke to Hannah and I spoke to Zuchera. They're completely different personalities. How do you, how do you nurture and coach girls who not only are different ages, different backgrounds, different cultures,

but completely different personalities? And they both, by the way, spoke very highly of you and the background stuff. Well, it is because, I was talking to her and I said, you know, what was one of the reasons that made you come to Chelsea? And she said, well, I know they've got phenomenal goalkeeping coaches. And I knew I could up my game. And I spoke to them and they were like, we can make you a much better goalkeeper. And so I was like, okay, I'm coming.

Not many people would openly say that. No, this is the moment I go a little bit red. No, I think for me, firstly, it's about being down to earth. I know what my place is in the hierarchy and I know what my job is I've been fortunate to be in this job for a long period of time which gives me consistency it gives me an opportunity to create

it's given me an opportunity to create a philosophy which we've been able to embed and grow year on year depending on what Emma wants from a style of play perspective but I think when it comes down to the players it's very much down to trust and relationships. And I've learned over the years how to be a better coach and how to deal with the different personalities that we have

because, you know, you're right in saying they're all very different. They all need different things at different times and it's just about picking the right style of coaching at the right moment with any one of those individuals. You know, I've been very, very fortunate to work with someone. some of the best goalkeepers that have ever played for it in the last 12 years in women's football. You know, we had Carly first, an international, and then Hedwig, Marie Hurahan, who had a great career. Becky Spencer, who's had a really long career.

So, yeah, and that's before Zachira came in. I think Zachira was the first goalkeeper that I recruited myself with Paul and recommended forward to Paul and Emma. Obviously, you've got Anne in there as well. and being one of the best goalkeepers, I think, in the world for a period of time, certainly for a time here. And on obviously Hannah joining, Nicky Everard joining, and the growth of Emily Orman coming through the structure and now Katie Cox. So I think the quality of goalkeepers I've been fortunate to work with has been there.

It's just how you manipulate a day-to-day scenario to get what you need to get out of them. And I think the key for me is around the detail. The devil is always in the detail. And I think it's the fine details of how you can get from A to B to give them the best chance of being able to make the save. But also it's about them understanding what being a Chelsea goalkeeper looks like because I strongly believe being a Chelsea goalkeeper. And I'm not just talking about the women's team across the club.

I mean, I played here. So I was training with Peter Check, Carlo Kuduchini and Hilario. So I know how they worked when Chris. Ristof, Lolleshont was the goalkeeping coach. You know, I've seen younger goalkeepers come through the system. Jamie Cumming, I work with at nine years of age, and now obviously he's a pro and been out on loan. So understanding what it takes to be a Chelsea goalkeeper, I think, is part of the battle

because it's very, very different to what it might be at another club because generally you have very little to do in a game. but the expectations are so high that when you have one thing to do you best do it otherwise you're under pressure and a lot of people would have questioned over the years

why we've had so many top quality goalkeepers in a goalkeeping department and the simple answer is people want to come here first and foremost who doesn't want to come to Chelsea women I've been fortunate up to create a culture

that has been talked about beyond the distances that I probably know and recognise But at the end of the day, I try and stay level-headed with what I do and do my job. Because if I don't do my job, then I wouldn't have been here for 11 years. And I certainly wouldn't be employed by Emma. You touched on Zuchera. What was it about her that made you want to go after her and sign her?

Zese is a character. Zessi is definitely a character and a fantastic human being. One of the best human beings I've ever met because she's such a growth mindset person, first and foremost. And I think she's learned more and more about herself, partially because of the environment, not necessarily because of what I've done personally. It is our environment that creates the personality. But I remember first seeing Zatira when she was 19.

And we actually played against her when she was playing for Rosengarde. In a preseason game, we were playing at Castleorton Athletic. And I remember seeing this punky kid that had the attitude to burn. I think she was about 19 at the time. I was like, okay, I'm going to need to keep an eye on you because you've got a little bit of something about you. You know, she had that personality that she has now. I think she's matured an awful lot from then,

but she still has that personality deep down. Maybe it's the, you know, the Baltic, the Balkan state in her that comes out every now and again. I mean, when she shouts sometimes, I even run and hide. But no, I think we see each other on a level playing field. I'd like to think that she would talk well of how, I've communicated with her because that's the one thing that I'll always ask every goalkeeper at the end and at the beginning of every season. So at the end, what can I do better for you for next year?

And at the beginning, what do you want to achieve? And once I get those answers, I can go away and mould something that is individual for each of them. But, you know, Zatira, I hope I've got a lifelong friend in Zuchera. And I actually joked and said to her that when she becomes a coach, because I firmly believe she will become a coach. in a later life that I'll come back and work for. Oh, wow. I mean, she's very talented. She's got an economics degree.

She's playing for Chelsea women. And, yeah, she's... Amazing chef. Is she? Yeah, you've not seen her on Instagram and TikTok. No, I've not seen her on TikTok. No, you need to see Chef Zessie. Okay.

Yeah. I wish I know that. The Swedish bums are very good. Are they? Yeah. Okay. You worked a lot with Carly. And you've mentioned her quite a bit on this podcast.

She described you as the best women's goalkeeping coach in the world. In the world. Yeah, I paid her to say that. What is your secret formula? What do you think your best attributes are as a goalkeeping coach? I think it's just that. It's creating relationships. It's creating relationships that are trusting.

They can trust in me and I can trust in them. of course how we coach to get them to where they want to get to sometimes they don't always get to their end goal but giving them the opportunity to express themselves first and foremost as as as they want to trying to put them into situations where they get the exposures of uh that give them memories for a lifetime so i mean carly carly's great i mean like i say i sort of stumbled across the Carly back in 2012 when she was not the greatest professional at that moment in time I think but she's openly said that she hadn't really had a lot of goalkeeping coaching so you know I mean being the best in the world is very subjective and it's down to opinion I mean what is that I don't really know because there's lots of good coaches out there I think it's more about the relationships and the trust you know that that's that's at the forefront of everything and if they trust you then they will believe

that you will be able to help them get to where they want to get to and i've been hugely hugely grateful for the people that i've worked with and i'm so so happy that they've been able to some of them achieve their goals um you know so for instance headvig she when she first comes she said to me i want to be the best in the world and she was number two behind hope solo for a number years and number two and number two and finally we got to that number one spot which for me that that just gives me everything that I need um you know I don't need people to talk well about me I just need people to talk well about my goalkeepers and then it reflects on me that is brilliant isn't it that is a brilliant answer they don't need to talk well about me they need to talk well about my goalkeepers

they'd be doing their job it's not always about the other say if a referee does their job in the game you never talk about a referee, do you? It's very true. So if a referee doesn't do their job in a game, then we're all talking about referees. Very, very true. What does a typical day look like for you in your role? Well, firstly, it's a nice early start, 5 a.m. leave from home.

5 a.m. Yeah, my days are pretty long, so I live in Milton Keynes. So I've done a journey for Milton Kings to Column for 11 years, so it's becoming a little. bit laborious now. No, it's got to be said. But yeah, so a 5 a.m. start and I'll be in at Cobham for maybe about seven, sevenish depending on traffic. It'll be a gym session in the morning. Got to try and wait myself up and keep myself fit, active. And then spot a breakfast and then we'll sit down in the office and we'll plan a training session. For me, it's really difficult.

I mean, I have a goalkeeping program that we try and sort of mold sessions around, but it's very much about what Emma and Denise want from the goalkeepers in the sessions, and then I'll try and put the pieces together around the theme that I might have from my program so that we can set the goalkeepers up to succeed in the training session. I think that's the most important thing for them to feel good, that they've got something from the training session. So, yeah, so it'll be all around the planning, maybe a spot of breakfast, second time round. Yeah, then it's a team meeting presentation strategy

and then out on the grass and I will get anything between 20 to 40 minutes with the goalkeepers on a daily basis just depending what Emma needs from a team perspective. The goalkeepers are firmly integrated into everything that the team does and that's symmetrical to what you see on the telly now, you know, the goalkeepers have got to be able to play with their feet.

Well, if I'm working in isolation with them, they're never going to get what they need to be. the best levels that they can be when they go out on the pitch on a Sunday afternoon. So to be integrated with the team is crucial but to try and find the details that the individual needs

from my point of view, I then lean a little bit on the multidisciplinary side of things and utilise the movement coaches a little bit to see how we can find the margins that we want to get to for the individual. So like I say, it comes back to that individual periodisation. I touched on

You touched on more and more use of feet. Do you think technically your part of your role has evolved as the game has also evolved and specifically the role and the demands of a goalkeeper? Yeah, sure. I mean, trends change over time. I think the fundamentals of goalkeeping is always going to be the same. From the very first game, I think goalkeepers are still stood in front of three white posts with a huge pitch in front of them and a lever ball being smashed at them.

So that part thing doesn't change. I think the expectations of what the game, what the team they're in, demands of the goalkeepers is how they change. So for me, as a goalkeeping coach, I need to be up to date with those trends. And they may be a different action, different type of an action that might become,

you know, a little bit more European style, for example, or whether that is an impossession-based situation. on the pitch where they need to be better with their feet and almost become the 11th player. You know, when you do your coaching badges, you're always told it's, you know, 10 outfield players and one goalkeeper. But now it's not about that. It's 10 plus 1. So the inclusivity of the goalkeeper in what they're doing. It's never just the 10 outfield players and then the goalkeeper, you know. But back to when I was a wee lad training, we were on a sandpit and you're in the corner of the field and getting muddy and probably in the waterlogged area, you know. So

you were wailing around like little pigs in, pigs in, yeah, all sorts of things. I won't say that word. But yeah, it's definitely changed. It's definitely changed over time. And the demands of the goalkeeper is very, very different now. But I think that's, it's a good thing because it evolves the game. Yeah, I think sometimes people underestimate how much of a mental side there is to goalkeeping because you need to be on alert so much but the game could be completely at the other side of the pitch and you could be the hero or the demon almost in a second or a minute I mean I mean that never changes like I say yeah the role of the goalkeeper hasn't really changed in relation to defending the goal that's always been there

I think for all of the goalkeepers that that understanding of what it's like to be a Chelsea goalkeeper and to actually feel the different scenarios because yes you can be like Anne was last year against Leon you can you can be the hero but on other occasions you know you've been the villain so you know you have to be thick skinned first and foremost you have to be able to cope with the the rough stuff as well as the smooth stuff but from from a psychological and a mental point, you know, it's far more mentally tiring a game of football than what it is physically for the goalkeepers.

You know, outfield players are running 10 to 13 kilometres in the game. Goalkeepers are moving three to five kilometres in the game, but you have to be engaged. You've got to be watching what's going on. You've got to constantly, you've got to constantly stay in contact with your team, using your voice, your positioning, all those sorts of things. So, you know, again, it comes back to, creating the right environment, you know, lots of people would say a match day plus one for us or

I've got to have a day off. Actually, if they've not really done a lot in the game, no, they can train and then they have match day plus two off. But it's what we do in that training session that stimulates them, stimulates their brain. Yeah. You know, the neural pathways that that they need to develop and that that sense of emotional security that they need to bring. to the team is huge. We know that Emma is leaving at the end of the season. How does it work in football? Do all of her backroom staff leave with her?

Does some people stay? I know, unfortunately, you are also going. What does the future hold? How does it normally work? How does it normally work? I mean, yeah, Emma's chosen to take a team with her. Again, it comes back to what I said about Emma earlier. She's taking her tried and trusted with her.

So she's going into a new environment and the role of a manager is a role of a manager. It doesn't matter at what level it is, whether it's international or club, whether it's male or female. You know, you're seeing it more and more across the men's game. A manager will go in with a team of people primarily because they're going into a brutal environment that they know they've got to get results very, very quickly in. And they need their tried and trusted people around them. You know, you don't want to be trying to build relationships with people whilst you're trying to win titles. And you've only got five minutes to be.

to spend. We know how Emma works. We've worked with her for a long period of time. The six of us that are going and we know what her expectations are. I think the bigger challenge for us is you're going into a completely different environment across the pond with very different expectations. And of course it's international football, not club football. But I think from a management perspective, you'll see more and more managers won't just be coming in on their own or with one assistant, they'll be coming in with a team of staff because the expectations put on them now are so high. And, you know, Emma being here for 11 years or 12 years, me being here for 11 years is not normal. You know, it's not normal in football. You see people do it for, I don't

know what the lifespan of a Premier League manager is now is less than 18 months. I was going to say, not long. No. So, you know, I think that will also grow into the women's game. I think we're seeing that because of the expectations that are put upon them, the money that's starting to be spent, the exposures that the game is created. The lionesses are created by winning the Euros and comes up in a World Cup. I think that the outside expectation of the fans

will not only grow the game, but will bring different demands upon managers, coaches, players in time to come. So my absolute last question, how do you look back at your time here at the club? well I'm a lifelong Chelsea fan so I'm a I'm a fan at heart and I will always be a fan at heart and I reference to Emma when she always says to me stop thinking with your heart and start thinking with your brain when it comes to coaching yeah I mean I've been on the journey a wonderful journey a journey that's taken me to places that I never dreamt of of going to you know as a young

kid I always dreamt about stepping out at Wembley and I've had the opportunity to do that on numerous occasions, maybe 15, 16 times now. So it really has become like a second home. But the feeling of winning and being part of a winning culture, a winning environment, being able to pick trophies up at the end of every year is hugely satisfying. But there's always a but, but it only lasts for five minutes until you want the next hit of the next drug that comes along.

It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us for being so open and honest and it's sad that you're going to be leaving but I wish you and Emma and her whole team the best of luck. Thank you very much.

Thank you for listening to We Are Chelsea, the official podcast of Chelsea Women brought to you in association with Skoda who are the official car partner of Chelsea women and proud supporters of women's sport. Remember to subscribe to the feed, give us a review and send in your question. to We Are Chelsea at ChelseaFCFC.com. See you next time.