We Are Chelsea - How It Started: Jess Carter

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

We are back at Cobham training centre, and in this episode, Caz De Moraes is joined by Chelsea defender and Lioness, Jess Carter! She tells us all about growing up in the Midlands, including playing for a girls’ team who went from ‘princesses’ to ‘absolute bulldozers’, and how she got her break as a professional footballer. She also talks about the challenges she faced in her early days at Chelsea, and how she overcame them to become one of the Blues' key players this season. Plus, she relives THAT penalty shootout in the UEFA Women's Champions League against Lyon... you know the one we mean. Enjoy!Remember to subscribe and leave a review, wherever you get your podcasts!Send us your questions using to [e-mail] watch the full episode on Youtube, click here: https://www.youtube.com/@chelseafc/videos#WeAreChelsea Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

They were the girliest the girls I've ever come across. I remember one time we were playing a game and the girls were literally sat on the floor in the middle of the pitch talking about the hair and their nails and the ball was coming and he ran off to the side of the pitch to get out of the way and then met up again in the middle

to carry on talking about the hair and the nails so that's a memory that will live with me forever. I don't know how he did it but he turned some of the biggest princesses I've ever seen into absolute bulldozers by the end of like a couple of seasons with them. The girls, they just, they were really good, to be fair. We competed in a boys league actually and ended up winning it.

Hello and welcome to We Are Chelsea, a podcast brought to you from the Chelsea women's team. I'm Casdemores and today we have a special episode on how it started with Jess Carter. We'll be covering it all from growing up playing rugby in the Midlands to becoming a lioness and one of Chelsea's top players. This is Jess Carter. Well Jess, thank you for speaking. speaking to me. Thank you for coming on. Can you, first of all, set the scene of where we are for the listeners? I think we're in Chelsea men's press room, to be honest. Yeah, just a nice little press room. Super chill here. It is true. I was saying earlier that I've never actually

been this side. Yeah, I don't really ever come up here, to be honest. What is it like, though, in press conferences and all the media are sat down there and you're up here? Like I said, I don't have to do that often, really. To be fair, I find it normally pretty easy. And the few times I have done it because they're only asking me questions about things I already know so okay um yeah I'm I'm not too I don't get too nervous about doing media or anything like that with you know other people in the room okay that's good yeah I'm getting laid back chilled vibes yeah yeah very very laid back chill vibes can you I want to start from the beginning because obviously you've been here for six years but I want to go back to the beginning what was little

Jess like can you paint a picture grow how did you grow up where did you grow up what were you like really throwing it back um so i've grew up i grew up in a little village called barford in the midlands near leventon spa um and um one of seven kids um and just kind of i've never really energetic really bubbly played every sport i could possibly play um and then my parents made between two and went to football and rugby and then gradually went to just football and um and yeah just really quite an active kid really and then obviously at 16 I went to college in Solihull and then played for Birmingham at 16

was there until I was 19 and then I went to Chelsea ever since she summed it up yeah basically there's not really much more to tell than that one of seven was everyone very sporty um so we all kind of we were lived in different household so luckily wasn't too crazy but yeah for most of me and my siblings we were very sporty and if we weren't playing we were watching so that's it's a very active family and who did you grow up looking up to and who was maybe inspiring you literally just my family like all of my siblings I'm pretty close to pretty close to them and they all inspire me in different ways and I'm really lucky enough to have a super

supportive family my parents and I'd like to say we are perfectly dysfunctional you know as we all I think we all we have a very strange family in terms of trying to explain it to people my closest friends like they never really understand my family tree that much but I know that I've you know I had a lot of growing up and so much support and yeah for me just my family and my biggest inspiration what number are you in the seven six oh yeah almost the baby yeah are there many girls um four girls three boys I say girls are dominant yeah girls are dominant girl power in that household what was it like when you said, okay, I want to do just football now

and I want to concentrate. And at what point did you think I'm pretty good at this? I could maybe go pro. So at 16, Birmingham had said to me that they kind of needed me to choose between football and rugby. My guess was because of, from injury perspective,

and I chose football. And still to this day, I don't really know why because I think I preferred rugby. I think I was better at rugby. Yeah, 100%. I definitely preferred it. I don't really know what made me choose football really.

Clearly it was the right thing to do. It's right doubt not so bad, but yeah, I don't really know. I can't remember why I chose it. I reckon, probably deep down my family probably were like, you should choose football because they're all mainly football fans in my family. And I think football was maybe a bit easier to get to as well than what rugby was because it was a bit further out. And to be honest, I honestly didn't really see football as a career until I joined Chelsea.

Really? Yeah. Because for me, football's always just been a bit of a laugh. It's a bit of fun and it was when I joined Birmingham obviously the league wasn't full time then

I think so when I joined the players at Birmingham still had we're working two jobs we were training in the evenings once maybe twice a week so it wasn't professional

to me it was just come you know do your thing go home hang out with your friends go to college whatever so

and even though it got more serious like obviously when we played we played to win we play to win trophies of course but I don't really think I saw women's football as a full-time profession until I joined Chelsea where it went to another level

and I was like, oh, like, I've actually really got to, like, this is my job. Now, like, I'm not here to just have a kick around. Like, I'm actually going to work. So I guess if I go back slightly, do you remember there being many opportunities for girls in football? No, not at all. I think obviously as we were just saying then, like, I don't really remember watch women's football.

or knowing anything about it and Birmingham actually played around the corner for me in Stratford-Bon-Avon for so long and I had no idea I think my dad just kind of came past like a poster one time advertising the game and we went along to it

but for me I was the only girl playing in my in my grassroots team which was called Woodlow's at the time now Warwick I was the only girl playing for them until I think it's like 12 where you can't play with the boys anymore and one of the coaches at the time

where he coached my older brother and he was a really really close family friend and essentially set up a girls team just so I could keep playing because if it wasn't for him yeah big up Dean Brandrick if it wasn't for him I probably would have stopped playing because there was no other opportunities

in the local area and you know trying to get you know how was a 12 year old supposed to go and play all the way in Birmingham went like I'm going to catch the bus by myself at 12 that far or I mean maybe some 12 years or I would do but I would not be doing that

so yeah so if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have played really and he created a girls team and it was essentially me and then his daughter and then just our friends I remember like they were the girliest

the girls I've ever come across I remember one time we were playing a game and the girls was literally sat on the floor in the middle of the pitch talking about the hair and their nails and the ball was coming

and he like ran off to the side of the pitch to get out of the way and then met up again in the middle to carry on talking about the hair and the nails so that's a memory that will live with me forever but yeah and then it just kind of grew from there

And definitely by the end of my time at Warwick, so when I was around 15, 10 and 16, there were so many more girls teams in the area. And even to just see the growth in the three or four years there is incredible. So to see it now, 10 years on, is amazing to see how many more opportunities there are there. It's incredible. I do love that even though they just wanted to talk about their hair and their nails, they still went. Yeah. And they still were on the bitch.

They were like, we're all just different. Yeah, literally. And what was my, I don't know how Dean, I don't know how he did it, but he turned some of the biggest princesses I've ever seen into absolute bulldozers. Really? By the end of, yeah, by the end of like a couple of seasons with them, the girls, they just, they were really good, to be fair.

We competed in a boys league, actually, and ended up winning it. So I don't know how it happened, but they were no longer talking about their hair and more squishing mud on their faces. Were you ever rebellious as a child? I wouldn't say I was rebellious I think my problem I say my problem I've always been encouraged to

say what I've got to say and my dad is possibly the best it's probably the best and the worst advice I've ever had for my dad which is to say what you've got to say always be always say your truth

and he didn't quite teach me the part of there's a time and a place for that so we must have skipped that step as a youngster in you know so i think that i'm quite an i'd say i'm quite an opinionated person really like it's um so i've had to learn the hard way to pick and choose the timing of that for sure and now let's talk about the decision to come to chelsea and you spoke there about how before it was a hobby and then here you realized that the standards were different and you needed to up your game how did you manage that change

and I didn't play me so I had to do something different really to be honest obviously the first year I joined it was totally it was really easy totally fine I think when you first join a new team you maybe have a little bit of leeway

and you know your coaches maybe aren't quite on your back they're letting you young they're letting you build your way in etc it's the second year that kind of hits it's then where you're still not playing you're even making a squad let alone the bend

and I think that those sorts of things you just kind of gradually learn and at some point you get tired of not playing and you either fight for it or you move on to something different and to start with I was really enjoying my time at Chelsea and I didn't want anything different I wanted to stay here I love the girls

I think the dressing we've had at Chelsea mainly over the years has been incredible obviously there's sometimes it's not but as a whole it is pretty awesome so it's a group of girls I love playing with and I guess it just got to a point where I had to almost decide do you want to, I guess, improve and play or do you just want to coast,

which I'd say in it for a couple of years, there was a period where I was a bit of a coaster, I was like, I'm just here, I'm trying, I'm doing my job, but I didn't really go like the extra step to prove why I should play. It was just like a, oh, play me, don't play him, I don't really kind of care, but a very laid-back approach, which maybe if I'd have tried a little bit early,

I tried not I tried hard like I don't think anyone would say I didn't train hard anything like that but my my problems were always off the pitch my nutrition my recovery my gym everything like that I didn't live like a professional outside of football and that's kind of what contributed to I guess my up and down time at Chelsea really do you think it is hard though if you've come from the mentality of it's a hobby and then you have a short window where this isn't just my job but there's expectation there's pressure and you have to change your whole lifestyle as well as your mentality because there sometimes can be a security in being laid back and going I know I have

talent and potential and if I had tried I could have been great but I did there's like a comfort in going I know I could have because trying could also mean failure and sometimes people don't want that failure I do agree with what I say I think it depends on the person I think for me that When I was at Birmingham, I played every game and we didn't have the luxury of having a really big squad. So my game time was, I knew I was playing whether I, no matter how I kind of performed. Now, I wouldn't say I was ever a, I never, I didn't ever not try. So when I was on the pitch, I gained my absolute all. When I trained, I trained as hard as I could.

It was then when I stepped away from the pitch, when I was at Birmingham, it wasn't, it didn't feel like it was that professional. So I could go and do what I want off the pitch. So it was never about trying. And it was about, I guess not knowing what it took to be a professional because I never had to do it. So I do remember a couple of times when I was at Birmingham, I remember Kaz Kani having a bit of a conversation to, I guess, like, just trying to make me realize what it takes to be a professional. And it's not that I didn't respect what she had to say, is that I'm like, I'm 16, I'm 17, I'm just, like, I'm just having fun. Like, to me, it was just, I understand what you're saying, but we're at two very different places. says I'm here just trying to have a good time

and she's here trying to be the best footballer that she could possibly be and that's not where my mindset was at so I think it's just different points in your career and obviously when I came to Chelsea it was that I had to reach a level that I didn't even know almost existed because I didn't know about the other professional side

of Chelsea of football so I had to try in quickly get up to pace with something that I didn't even know like I'd have to do almost I thought that everyone was going to be like Birmingham because I didn't know any different so I think I just had to quickly try to learn what it took to be considered a professional

and to get to like I I knew without sounding like Aaron I knew that I was one of the better defenders in the team so for me it would be a well why am I not playing when I'm a better defender than someone else sort of thing but I was so unfit for like three years at being at Chelsea I was super unfit so almost Emma playing me

I was almost a guaranteed sub by like 60 minutes because I just wasn't fit enough to sustain the intensity that was required to play for Chelsea which is strange when I played every minute for Birmingham but then I was also 60 and a teenager who's got a bunch of energy and can just run around the order you get we all know you don't have that natural energy anymore so I was talking as if I'm much older than 26

but it doesn't affect even at 26 so I can confirm that's true So how much of an impact, I guess, did Emma have on that change of the things off the pitch and stepping up the level and I guess helping you mature in the mentality that if this is your job, there's, you know, giving that 2% outside in the gym, on nutrition, on lots of other things could actually help you on the pitch by like, I don't know, 25%. Yeah, no, for sure. I think she was big in that because of it was basically we ended up having a conversation of you like you're not fit enough and it was like that's why you're not playing because

you're not fit enough and you know we at Chelsea since I've been here we have been in Champions League every year so we have three games a week most of the season and I'd be lucky enough to play one of those let alone be available for three of them so it was like

if I want to play here if I want to really really compete then I needed to get fitter and getting fitter is the nutrition. It is recovering properly so I can play again. It is doing the gym so that my body is strong enough to sustain the pressures of football and the intensity. So it was all focused around fitness. And I think that it was, I think fitness is a really, really sensitive area to talk about

because I've been part of teams before where they talk about your body weight, your body image. And for me, that's the worst thing because I don't care what you look like. how much your way, as long as you're fit enough to play football, then that's, to me, the most important thing. So that is something that I really, I think thank Chelsea for really is the way they manage that situation because trying to talk to a 19, 20-year-old girl about their body image and things like that.

That's such a difficult area to do. I mean, even 26, 40-50, it's not a nice thing to talk about. So to kind of really sensitively talk about that topic just to get me to be fitter, not thinner, and to help me be the best athlete. I think it was something that I will definitely always be thankful of Chelsea for sure Give us a sense of what

Emma is like I've never Obviously I've never been in a Emma Hayes team talk You have been in many Depends of your ass really I think it's You know It depends on the game

I think that The ultimate factor for Emma She wants to win And we win a I guess we kind of win at all costs And in Britain's a winning culture at Chelsea So it's about trying to find a way to win And definitely in my experience over the years

It's gotten a bit more like I wouldn't negative really isn't the right word But it's like she should be happy and proud that we've won But she always expects more She always wants more always expects better And even when it's good It can be better So I don't think it's definitely not about it being negative

I just think that she has such high expectations Of us as a team That she always wants us to do better um and ultimately you know we want to win champions league it's the one trophy we've not won in order to do that we've got to be better so i think it's she's always trying to find smaller margins for us to push on and you know and win again and again which is the hardest thing to do so yeah she i'd definitely say she has high standards in that side of things i can imagine but i would struggle with the dedication in and out as i get older how i guess have you

manage to maintain that level and how difficult is it as a player to keep up that kind of self-discipline. I think it's really hard. It's probably the toughest part of the job when people always think if you're playing, you're happy, if you're not playing and you're sad. It's, I can, I've played pretty much every game this season and last season and even with international and I can assure you that's not that's not the answer. So I think it's about over time you just start to figure out what works for you and what doesn't you start to get the balance right of your social life versus work and you don't get that right for a long time I know it took me a very very long time to get that right and I think that for me the most

important thing is having the right kind of life away from football because football is so intense and it's like you 100% have more down days at football than you do good days in my opinion or my experience anyway it's just then you can kind of have to weigh up whether the highs of it make up for all those down days sort of things. So I think that when I go home and I get to see my friends and my family and I have a nice apartment and I get to socialize and do those sorts of things, I'm like, you know, everything's great. And but if you don't manage to get your balance right, then you go home and you just down about football. And it's just football, football, football. For me, I need to

have a total, like a total switch to life. life away from football in order to be able to be at my best when I get to football because I think if I don't switch off I think I would just rapidly crash when I get here to be honest Well it isn't an all-consuming world

Especially now with social media And the women's game has grown so much That the media attention is now different How do you deal with The negativity that comes with it And the criticism and also I guess the positive sides is just obviously the criticism and the negativity is harder.

How do you deal with all of that? Just growing thick skin over a long period of time. I think that similar to everything else. Everything just takes time. Like when you're, I remember, I think it was Champions League final. Oh, good God. I got absolutely slaughtered for so long.

I'm like, you try and play against Barcelona women and beat them. You try Mark Hansen. Like, I'm pretty sure you're probably not going to do that much better. like you know so it's one of those things where you just get you kind of just have to take it and take it and remember that ultimately I'm not playing football for the fans I'm not playing football for the keyboard warriors I'm playing football for myself and myself only and ultimately the only people's opinions to me that matter are mine my teammates my coaches they're the people that I play with or that are going to put me on the

pitch so and anyone else's opinion unfortunately is pretty irrelevant and of course we want our fans to come and enjoy the game and but I'm not playing football just for you so for me their opinion is kind of irrelevant on how I'm doing because it's got it plays no impact we love our fans we want we want them to be there we want them to come and fill the crowds and things like that but in my opinion our fans you know we need your support not your negativity we're not going to do better with your negativity and I think that's that goes through a lot of that comments a lot of half time just unnecessary and but it's hard though isn't it it's horrible when you're at school and someone's picking on you and your mom goes your mom goes just ignore them yeah you're like you can't

yeah like I don't follow fans on social media but it comes up everywhere the you know you you have 10 great comments but one really bad one and the only and the bad one is the one you remember and it's the same for anything so you almost just kind of start to almost like blur out the bad comments and now when I see them I'm like I'm not that bothered before obviously it was really tough um but yeah just with i guess everyone just kind of is a little bit different and some people really struggle with the comments and it can really massively affect their mood the way they play um luckily for me i've learned to have very thick skin and to not be bothered by it but i can't say the same for everyone now so i think that it's really important that you know

just you can always you're a football fan you can always say your opinion but you know there's a right way and a wrong way to speak to someone and you wouldn't do it in person to them so how did you do on social media. I know. There's a confidence, isn't there? I don't know why they're not seeing someone face to face or they might say something and then they see you and they're like, oh, dress, come selfie. Literally, that's the weirdest thing.

I'm like, you literally wrote trash about me two minutes ago and now you want me to sign your jersey. Like, no, thank you. Yeah, I always think that that is quite funny. Talk to me a little bit about the point for you where things started to click and change at Chelsea and you were like, I feel comfortable. I feel like I've found my groove. I've probably about two years.

years ago maybe something about three years here honestly we got about two years ago and I remember to be honest I had a bit of a bust up with them actually we had a bit of a bit of a set to about about something and it was just kind of like it was the it was actually I think the year we got made the Champions League final okay I think it was that year I wasn't playing at all and then we had by Munich away in the quarterfinals I think it was someone got injured there was another red card at fallback. Someone else was out. I was only fallback left. So what she's going to do now? She kind of ended, she played me. I 100% believe it was a, you're playing because she had no one else to play there really. She might say it was tactical, but that's how I'm

getting. That's my story anyway. So I ended up playing and I was, when I came on, I was like, you know what, you're already not playing. What is the worst that can happen? You don't play well and you go back to the bench. Like it was just, I got into a frame of mind of I honestly, I past caring whether you want to play more, you don't want to play more, or what other people think. It's about what I can do. As long as I can go on the pitch and say, I've given everything, I've done my best, then that's it. And I just played with absolute freedom and no fear of the repercussions of my performance. And it was probably then the best second half of the season I've had for Chelsea. And then I think ever since then, I just was, I'm just now in

the frame of mind of do what you can and leave the training pitch or leave the game knowing that I'm happy with what I've done. And if that's not enough for someone else, that that's fine. And I think just the freedom of being confident in my own self is what was the turning point for me, I think. Talk to me a little bit about some of your favorite moments in a Chelsea show. I think two probably maybe three standout. One was we played, I think it was PSG away. and Cascani crossed the ball and Mara and Mielder popped up at a back post and scored and took us through to the

maybe the semi-final I think it was and yeah that was just an amazing moment I don't know why that one was so strong for me because I think I'd only just come on like for two minutes before then we were already an extra time so I'd been on the bench pretty most of it but I think like I don't know how many you guys know Maron but she's just the ultimate oh she's amazing She's an amazing person, amazing player, doesn't get enough credit for sure.

And so to see her, you know, score that goal to take us through to the next round was amazing, an amazing feeling. I think buying, maybe buying at home, I think when I, for some ridiculous reason, I've got put on set pieces. I'd never done that in my life. And I took this free kick and I think, I crossed it in and Panella scored from it. It's probably my best technical action I've ever done. and that was what I think put us two one or two nil up

and then having players run to me I was like well normally I'm running to everyone else so like scoring or assisting so that was quite nice and then my last one would have to be Leon last last year I don't even know what year we're in now 24

yeah last year yeah last year Leon yeah when we had the penalty shoot out I think that was just an exciting game it's exciting to be part of Stamford Bridge was just bouncing. It was unreal there. The Leon fans were unreal.

Marron again, you know, I don't, I find me anyone who can handle pressure like she can. I don't think there is anyone better. You know, I remember talking to it. When she was waiting for her first penalty, it was taking ages. And I was just stood there and I was talking to her about her hair and her holidays and doing everything I could

to, like, not make her think about this really stressful moment. I remember just having a good old chit-chat of absolute nonsense. And then she just rocketed it, top bins and then did the same thing two minutes later in the penalty shoot out and then you know I don't take penalties and then I was the fifth the fifth in line and it wasn't until I realized afterwards like you were the fifth penalty taker that if I'd have messed that up that was kind of a big thing and then and goes and pulls out that stop and against Lindsay Horan and does a little shimmy which I've never seen in in our lives I don't know I've never seen a show that much enthusiasm so

that that day as a whole was incredible I love that and shimmying is what's going to stay with me though if I speak to I'd be like could you just show you the show you and talk to me about what it's like playing at Stamford Bridge when we've got a big crowd it's absolutely unreal I think that it's just it's so amazing to hear

the crowd cheering chanting they're so they're so pumped up for it it just it does send you goosebumps it does like it gets you really excited to play the game and hopefully we can just keep having big crowds at games and making um making stanford bridge a real fortress for for us as a as a team playing and hopefully making it somewhere that the fans want to keep coming back to but you must have seen it grow especially after the euros you must have seen that the fan base is growing that people are turning up in bigger numbers for

yeah for sure like the the the fan base across the w sales as a whole has gotten incredible i mean i think about Bristol, they had 10,000 at one of their games this season and no disrespect to Bristol, but they haven't achieved as many trophies as, say, what we have. And yet they get more fans to some of their games than what we do with some of ours. So it just goes to show that the level of women's football is getting so much better, and the fan bases is getting so much bigger. And it's not about what team you are, what you've won, or who you are. It's just about the growth of the women's game getting so much bigger that people want to be part of it. So it's incredible to see and hopefully it will just keep improving.

You won the Euros and played in a World Cup final with the lionesses. How proud are you of your achievements? And when you think back to when you were playing for Warwick, could you have even dreamed that this would have happened? No, I didn't ever think I'd be a female football player, let alone achieve that. It is incredible. And I think my international journey has been even rockier than my club journey. So to have not been in the England set up really consistently,

unlike a lot of the girls' journey, to then get to a Euro's and get to a World Cup for me is, it is incredible. And I think for me, I never, my ambition was never to play international football. I think in a documentary, you've heard you hear me say, like, I'm not that bothered about playing for England

because my focus was always just club. If I can't play for club, I can't play for country. Because, you know, you've got to be competing on a regular basis here in order to get selected. and so that was never a focus of mine until it, until I was, until it was, I guess, until I got selected and selected and selected. And now I'm like, oh, actually, this is, this, yeah, now it's, you know, I've got to try

and keep myself in the best place possible in order to compete for both club and country. Are you a goal-oriented person in, like, you set yourself goals or things like that? I mean, I'm asking this knowing that you're going to go, no. No, I'm really not. maybe it's I don't know if it's a downfall I mean it's coming so far but I'm just

I'm not bothered by setting goals I'm just kind of like literally take each day as it comes and I think that it's just about focusing on what I can do today and then I wake up tomorrow what can I do tomorrow

and for me that's the best way to prep I don't like to think about the future things I just think so many things can happen in football that can change the change a course and so I just think about focusing on the each day as it comes really well it's interesting because i was going to say what does the

future look like for jess and what is left for you to achieve but i guess that answer reminds me a little bit i spoke to jack grelish once and he said that he would fly high when things were going really well but he would equally drop when things are going really badly and he had to it took him a long time to find the equilibrium yeah and it sounds like by taking each day as it come you're living in the presence in order to try and find i think that's what it is. I think that maybe subconsciously I'm not setting my standards too high to maybe not have to go so low if they don't go right. But for me, it's always just been take each day as it comes. And then when we're successful at the end of the year, I will be celebrating

all of the happiness that I've built up throughout the year all at once. I mean, sat here with you, Jess, you just seem so normal and down to earth. And I'm like, but you go to red carpet events. you're like nominated for these things you're winning these incredible tournaments i still get my dress from boo-hoo it's like we all could go to the same places i might be going but i still have to pay for my own cab to get there we want to train in my heels so i mean i just i love that mentality you're just you're great to be around but in my head i'm like how do you stay so normal you've got fans asking for your pictures you've got people asking for autographs you want the euros Oh, my, like I said before, my family, they keep me very humble.

My sister will call me midway through a game and ask me what I'm doing. You know, I'll get a text saying, why haven't you answered your phone? I'm at game. Like, they really keep me humble. My mom will text me just before I'm about to say, go out to say good luck. Like, Mom, I didn't see your message until after the game. Like, I was already preparing for a game. You know, they just keep me so humble.

One sister cares more about what her hair looks like today than anything else. And they're just, I've got such a humble family. that it really helps me to stay grounded really. I love that. Yeah. I'm like, good luck. It was yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, yeah. I mean, Jess, I have absolutely

love speaking to you. You have just been unreal. I need like, Fran is my life coach and then I need you to just keep me grounded. Yeah, from her two very different people. Fran is very winning, driven. Fran is very focused about she wants to win, win, win. And we all

do otherwise we won't play. And we just have different ways of I guess going about it and that's I guess what makes Chelsea work so far is having very very different personalities how would you describe Fran on the pitch she asked me to ask you this I asked her and she was like

she's not asked Jess very competitive yeah competitive she shout lots she does to be fair to her she probably shouts more at herself than she does at the others but she just got such high

standards for us. And you know, you don't play for Chelsea if you don't have high standards. And when people aren't doing the basic things right, she will let you know that you're not doing the basic things right. But equally, she'll be very quick to praise you. So as, you know, she wants to win and winning at all costs. But she's ultimately a great teammate as well, though, because she does back your case when things also aren't going so right. And we'll be on your case because she expects you to do better than what you're doing right now. I love that. my last question to you it's just a personal one because I'm very curious um it's nature versus nurture do you think you're more likely to become a successful athlete footballer if you're you just

have the natural ability or do you think if you're nurtured do you think it's natural nurtured yeah I don't think that I big big believer in that um I say big believer in the sentence I don't even know the saying was it hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard something like that yeah yeah that one because i think we've seen many talented players not be as successful as they should be because of their attitude to the game or their lack of willingness to improve work harder and you know for me a people talk to say to me about natural talent because of maybe what i achieved at a young age but i don't have the technical ability that most of my teammates have I've got to, sometimes I go, we play Wondo's and I'll spend most of my time in the bloody

middle because I give the wall away the most. And it's like, I know that that's not my best strength, but I know what I can give you is 100% work rate. I can support my team. I can try and organise my team. I can do all those other things that maybe someone who's got a million percent more talent than I have. And so I do think that if you are able to just be taught and helped how to be better and do better, I think that's better than natural. You'll get further than just having natural ability. I love that. I mean, I've got a one-year-old,

so Project Chelsea Women's is starting. Maybe they have to be a defender, though. There's a reason I'm no longer playing midfield. I love that. Chesh, you've been an absolute incredible guest. I've loved talking to you. Yeah, thank you. It's been cool. Thank you for listening to We Are Chelsea.

During the course of this series, we'll be speaking in-depth to more of Chelsea's top players and will also be bringing you all the post-match reaction to the biggest match. matches with the players themselves. So remember to subscribe, give us a review and sending your questions to We Are Chelsea at ChelseaFC.com. See you next time.