We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 258. Abby Asks, “Why Can’t I Love Myself?”

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Abby opens up about starting therapy and the work she’s been doing to unearth and express uncomfortable emotions like anger and sadness. She shares her long-held fear that if she feels and expresses her full self, people will leave her. In a profound moment, Abby shares a deep longing to truly love herself. She explains that this love has been clouded by messages she’s received since childhood which have led to difficulty trusting others, equating anger with not being okay, and a feeling like something is “wrong” with her.  For the episode Abby mentions with Suzanne Stabile, check out Fix Your Most Important Relationships with the Enneagram: Suzanne Stabile To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And to be loved we need to be known. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today, especially Abby can do hard things. So Pod Squad, we have tried over time to share with you what kind of the personal journeys each of us is going through and give you updates about that. You know, mine over time has been recovery from anorexia and embodiment. This last couple years, history has been on an ongoing journey to determine the role that joy and peace and relaxation determine the role that joy and peace and relaxation and full humanity will play in her life

as opposed to the alert. It's not much. Yet minor. Yes. Very minor role. It's a journey. It's a journey. The longest journey starts with a single well spreadsheet. Abby has recently been, I actually think many things led to this one being our episode with Suzanne Cibile, who told you that since year seven, maybe you don't dive much into the harder sides of emotion that you tend to stay on the sunny side of things that you're a positive patty that you are constantly trying to mold situations to look at the bright side. Yes, the episode is to 26. It was the Enneagram episode we did with Susanne's to be all. It's amazing. Go back and listen.

So she convinced you, along with many other things at that time in your life, it wasn't just that, but convinced you that maybe you would benefit from exploring the harder emotions and the other side of being human. You have started therapy and started to explore other emotions than positivity like sadness and anger and pain and we just want to know how is it going? Has it been worth it? What are the benefits? Why did you decide to do it? Where are you right now? Well, I think for some context, when you decided to go down and into the road onto the road of therapy, I had a front seat to kind of watch you,

explore that part of yourself and dedicate yourself to the consistency of therapy week after week. And because I knew what you were doing and how vulnerable that was and how hard that was, it gave me confidence to even want to think about, think about going to therapy. I've been in therapy many parts of my life just different.

I just have never really had like a consistent practice. It was always I was having a big issue that I needed to deal with and so I would go to therapy, talk about it. But watching you kind of go through this experience over the past consistent 12 months, I've seen a considerable benefit. There have been a lot of things going on in my personal life, professional life, and our life and our family life, that it felt like it was just becoming unmanageable. I think we all, a lot of us use our marriages in some ways to like work through a lot of our problems.

And you're very, you're very good. That's a thing. Yeah, and I know that you and I are very good at processing and working through stuff. But I also know that that has limitations, not only because neither of us are clinically licensed to do this. But I think having these conversations with somebody that isn't involved in any of my drama is like really important. So you were having challenges in the professional realm, family of origin realm, raising young adults around, or those pretty much the realms. Yeah, I don't know if there are any other realms in my life, friendship realms. Friendship realms.

Friendship realms. So how was that different Abbey? Because I'm interested in a couple of things you said, like how you had been to therapy other points in your life. And then you use the word all these things happening, making it unmanageable. Was that a new feeling for you? Like was that a rocking moment to, because you are like, I got it, I'm on it. Nothing it pays me. Here I go.

Yeah. Kind of a human. Yeah. What did that feel like to feel like it was unmanageable and was that a new feeling for you? Yeah. Well, because for more context, the times that I had been therapy before, my life had fallen apart.

I was an addict. I had heartbreak. Like, my life not only was unmanageable, I was unable to actually live in it. And so I felt like I had heartbreak. Like my life not only was on man's walls unable to actually live in it. And so I felt like I had to. It was like a forcing. This circumstance was different because everything on not only on the outside, but even on the inside was like, it was fine. It was, it was fine. I was, I was doing everything I needed to do. You know, bills are paid. Kids are off to school and they're on the right time. It was okay. My life was okay.

It was like the other things when you have like the divorce or the You can point to that thing and be like that's the problem. Yes, and now I need help dealing with that little Tangled web, but when you're in it and you're just like Everything is fine, but everything is terrible. Yeah, it was a very different thing. And yeah, there were just like a few crises, but they were minor in the grand scheme of what I thought therapy was for.

And I think that that, like for me, that's really important. But watching Glenn and Goethy this last year, yes, maybe hers was a specific crisis, and her life was hard to get her into that therapy. But for me, I was like, well, I don't think it could hurt. And when we had that podcast with Suzanne, I don't know, she just put this little nugget

inside of my heart. And it was like the thing. I just as soon as she said it, I just had this sinking feeling in my stomach. What did she say that gave you the sinking? She said, well, you need to really work on and get into your shadow side. And it was like the truest thing that anybody has ever said to me, because I've known it, I've known it all along. I've like deep down have been avoiding it

at all costs on purpose. And what did that mean to you when she said your shadow side? It was that uncomfortable feelings. What did that mean to you? I think that I interpreted it as my anger. I think that I have for every reason, for every good reason, the life that I have lived in, I didn't have a lot of time or space or the financial stability to, this is how I thought, this is not true, but this is what I believed. In order to create the life that I created. I could not focus my attention on my anger. I think that I was afraid, I think it has everything to do with attachment. And I have been very afraid to touch anger because I think that to me it threatens my attachment to the people that I love. So when I was growing up, we were not allowed.

We were told not to cry. We were not allowed to bring a kind of energy into the fullness of a room and change the energy of that room. Wow. We had to assimilate, I guess, in a way. And then I go off into locker rooms, after locker room, after locker room, that is a very similar mentality around, don't be the one that rocks about, fit in, kind of deal with whatever happens, but you have to make the best of it because it was my life. So by virtue of necessity, I think that I have buried all of my anger. And I think that it definitely has made me a half person.

And I have felt that way a lot in my life. Like I have felt split and I thought it was because I lived two lives. But I think more, the more therapy that I'm doing, it's because that I never really lived into the fullness of myself. And so it's just been a very fascinating, you know, it's like every therapy, the beginning of therapy that a lot of us get into, you don't think anything's happening, right? The first couple of weeks, I'm like, I don't know, you know?

I just, I'll talk to you. Yeah, well, because I feel like you won't charge me. I can just talk to you. You say good stuff. Yeah, not only do you say good stuff, but you know more about me. So like getting that. But that's why we can't do it with each other, right? Yeah, yeah.

We know each other too well. We think we know each other. Like our son told us that he has an artist friend and the artist friend told him that you can't paint a portrait of someone you know super well, well. Oh, interesting. Like you don't do it right. Totally, but I think it's like frustrating having to tell a stranger, the whole of my story,

because how can they understand all of the complexities? But that is the reason why it's so important is because they don't know the complexities, because the complexities are beliefs that I have brought to the table. Yes. They're like all of the trauma and the beliefs about the things that happened.

The stories that you told you. Is what I feel, what you know, because I've told you. Yes. She doesn't have these. I know. And so she's been able to listen, and I've had to over the many months,

I've been in therapy with her, try to relate my story to her. And she's very good at being like, okay, is that true? Do you believe that? We talk a lot about non-violent communication in terms of setting boundaries because a lot of what I struggle with is confrontation. And having like a hard conversation with somebody around something that I feel or some hard emotion that I'm feeling around whatever's happened, that to me feels like nope. Is it because of what you learned when you were little, if I bring them a hard thing,

why would they stay? If I bring them a sad thing, if I bring them an angry thing, if I bring them something, a preference, a boundary. Of course. They're gonna leave. Why would I be more trouble than? Of course. And so, I guess we're just going back to the two weeks after this therapy started, I started to allow some of the anger, some sadness, just the not popular

emotions. Didn't that pleasing the people using? Yes, I remember those early weeks. Yeah, and you actually, one morning, you said to me, babe, are you okay? And that was not a good moment of mine. And let's explain why. You can explain that part. Well, looking back on it, okay, so I'll set the scene.

So it was like, for a few weeks, like I would wake up and it was like, I went from living with little Miss Sunshine to living with like the devil. Like in the sweetest way. Like I'd wake up in the morning and like upstairs would she'd be like the coffee machine and he was damn yeah yeah that would that's you God damn it. I was so I think I was scared. I was I understood this something important was happening, but I Had a moment of that I think happens when two people are Surrendered to a growing experience. It's like I want you to get better I your partner want you to get better and experience the full humanity. But hold on a second, not like that. And do I? And like,

tamp this shit down because where's my sunshine? Like, I was with my, are you okay? I was trying to control you. I was like, Oh, no, no, this has gone too far. Like let's get back to a little more sunshine. And reinforcing her fear thing, which is that if I act in a way that isn't sunshine, it is going to alienate me from the people that I love. Exactly. Right into the heart of that.

Yeah, interestingly enough about that, I knew what you were doing. I knew you were covertly trying to get me to be happier or whatever you were trying. I knew what your intention was by that question, but it actually forced me to really ask myself, am I okay? Yes.

And though I know maybe it was kind of the design of the question might not have been perfect, it was really important that you asked me that with the undertones underneath it because I had to be like, wait, what is this work for? This is like complicating my living situation. Am I okay? And I had never asked,

I guess I had never experienced feeling the anger of my life or myself inside, and then ask myself, wait, I'm okay. I think that I equated anger with not okayness. Yeah, like it's the evidence is in if you were okay, you wouldn't be mad. So what does it mean? You can't be both mad and okay. Yeah, and I was like, I am okay.

I am able to feel anger and I am also at the same in the same breath able to be okay. I'm okay with this. That's so huge. You were able in that moment to say, I am both angry and okay. I have anger. Yes, that's right. I am angry. That's right.

I have anger right now. And I am something else. And I am angry. That's right. That's right. I have anger right now. Yes. And I am something else. Yes. And I am okay. And I was able to be like, Oh, I am living with anger in my house. And I'm okay. No, there's a reason why I have chosen partners who don't show anger. I grew up in a house that had a lot of anger in it. Yeah. And so when anger is near me, it's triggering. I... You're not okay. I'm not okay, except that I am. So do you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you realize we were okay?

That's really fascinating. Yeah, I, I, I think that throughout my life, I felt like I was gonna have to do this on my own, you know? And being okay was, that was it. That was, that is all I needed to be like I need to be okay. And I think that the belief that I had around if I'm angry and that equating to not being okay, it was like, well, I can't do that. That's a no fly zone for me. So that was like a really important moment. And then to just go a little bit further,

because I haven't over the whole of my life really accessed anger as much, I would bury it down. Because it was there, I was feeling it, but I was not expressing it. And so I'd bury it, and then it would start stacking and stacking and stacking, and it would lead me to blow up very rarely, but I would blow up, and it would take me down. And at odd times.

Very odd times. It would be the weirdest thing. It would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Like you'd take the wrong exit off of the highway, and it was like the end of the world. Yeah, and I'd be pissed for the hungry. Yes, you're hungry. That's a whole different story. That's a whole different story. You're hungry.

I think a whole different psychological discussion. But yes. And so now that I'm starting to express my displeasure or distaste or unhappiness or anger or sadness or whatever, I'm saying some of these things more vocally. I still am probably not perfect, but I'm trying my best to say things. I realize now that when I say them, they don't last.

There's like a, it comes up. I experience it, I vocalize it, and then it goes away where before I'd let it pile up, something would set me off, and then I would stay angry and upset. And I'd be like, mad at myself, because here I am now not okay. So it was like the shame cycle and spiral

that I would experience when, in fact, I would blow up in a rage of some sort. So that's been really interesting, because I'm able to say it and let the emotion kind of move through me. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast.

My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time, energy, or money. Suggestions such as follow the one-minute rule. Choose a one-word theme for the year or design your summer.

We also feature segments like know yourself better where we discuss questions like are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person, abundance lever or simplicity lever. And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick easy shortcut to more happy. Listen and follow the podcast happier with Gretchen Rubin. Can I say one thing about the background of this? Because the Suzanne piece that you're mentioning is so interesting. When you say the shadow side in the dark emotions, the way that she described it to you,

that your face turned 14 different colors of recognition. She was talking about how folks like you, specifically in this context, sevens, just learn very early and your natural inclination is anything that happens. If it even, if it looks to other people like disappointing or tragic or upsetting or whatever that your instinct is to immediately reframe, that you're just constantly reframing, oh, that thing, oh, here's the good part about that. Or this is why it looks looks like a bad thing, but here's why it's a good thing. And constantly

this like cycle of that over and over and over. And no one ever wants you to change that because it's very convenient for the people around you. But then you don't change that until the one thing that you can't reframe. And then she said, and then all of everything falls apart. And you have to go back and grieve all of that. So are you having a process now, or are you yet at the period where you are grieving all of it? She said that it's not just forward-looking, but like when you accept things in your life and you're like, I'm not trying to reframe that. That thing that happened that's shitty and I'm going to name it as shitty and I'm going to let it flow through me.

Are you still at that phase? Are you yet feeling like you're going back and like grieving all the shit that you never were able to because you're constantly reframing it as something kind of good. Yeah, I think I'm still in the process of like pulling up all of the things that I have a story around that was hard, sad, angering, because I think what in the process of the reframe, and then in the process of the analysis of that reframe over the whole of my life has made me, I think, skew the truth.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, and so I think that the truth is what I'm after. As a kid who 17, 18 years old and has to go out into the world and now feels like I have to make my own life for my own self, there are really good stories. I think that I have told in order to prop myself up as the hero of my story. There are really true stories that also make that true. There are some hard

truths of my story that I think in the end I will understand as the truth. But I am trying to go back and examine all the relationships that I've had in my life that have impacted me. And what I am realizing in the last session I had with my therapist is about my relationship with my parents, my parents getting older, all of the things that go along with having a full life with two parents. I think it's been fascinating because the expectations I think it's been fascinating because the expectations that I have had on my parents have been unmet.

And those were expectations that I levied on them. They have been the same people all the way through. And I'm hurt because I think I hurt myself. So you were bright siding them. I was bright siding my parents. And that caused a gap between what is and what you were wanting them to be. Yep. With your positive spin on them. Yes. And that gap was suffering. Yes.

Yes, and that gap was suffering. Yes, and and I think the responsibility in my therapy and for myself and for my future is to claim what I own in the way that my relationships whether it's my parents or friends or past people I've dated whatever I Haven't held as much responsibility as I needed to in the way that those relationships have unfolded because I have put expectations on these people that were impossible for them to meet. It's a really fascinating way to protect yourself. Yeah. It's also the shadow side of being a positive patty because it's that thing

where hope is dangerous. Hope is what we put on. I put on you because I think you can be better than this. I see your best self. I see your this thing and they're not meeting that. You did that to them. That's right. It's on me. Yeah. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy of being alone. And then I get to create the story around why that all happened. This person was this way, that person was that way. And I think it was just impossible expectations.

That because people were telling me all along who they were. Yeah. My parents have been telling me all along who they have never deviated from themselves. Yeah. They didn't sign on to your improvement plan. No.

And that is fine for them. Yes. But I have been carrying this, look at me. I'm over here self helping myself and, you know, pushing myself and ambitious and wanting more for myself. And I cannot put that on my parents. They have chosen the life that they have and that the life that they wanted. But I have put on a hope for love, a hope for my relationships with my parents that for whatever reason was just not possible. And that is my responsibility to own. Do you feel angry about it now?

Now that you're letting go of the bright sighting of your family of origin, you're not pushing them to be something that they are not. Is there a process of looking at the truth of things and grieving what actually always was? Yeah, I'm not at that stage yet. I'm trying to go through this process of thinking about myself as that like eight-year-old little girl, where I think a lot of this was imprinted on me in terms of what I needed to do to survive. There was a part of me that needed to do all of this to survive.

Yes. And I have to honor that little girl inside of me that was so scared and was trying her best and didn't know and wasn't really educated about this stuff and didn't have the capacity and was fighting for her life. I mean, being a professional soccer player, there is a selfishness and a narcissism that I thought I needed to have in order to be the best at it.

And whether that's true or not is irrelevant at this point because that's what I thought I needed. That's the person that I had to create in order to be in that world. And you couldn't ask too many questions and you couldn't have too many needs and you couldn't have too many feelings because there was somebody behind you that would do the job that would show up if you didn't have needs. And the same thing happened in your family. When you have a huge family like that,

that's not deeply into emotions. You walk into a room, you can't start telling your family. Yeah. When you have a huge family like that, that's not deeply into emotions. You walk into a room. You can't start telling your needs. No. You can't start crying. You will get sent to your room. That's right. So it was a very real. If I show up with needs, I will be banished. Yeah. Which is what attachment is is based on. Yeah. Yeah.

This is like probably the the biggest work of my life that I've been avoiding for a long time. And I know that I needed to feel really stable and grounded. I mean, one of my therapy sessions, you know the story, but it makes me chuckle every time, because she just asked me, well, do you trust people? It seems like with your childhood and the life that you lived seem in the way that you are operating. I want I'm curious about trust and how you

trust people. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, I trust people. And she's like, like with your life, with everything, to know you completely. And that was a really confronting question to me because I haven't touched this part of myself to really even know if somebody would accept all of these parts of me. Wow. You know, and so I had I mean, still makes me laugh. She's like, okay, so who do you trust? And I'm thinking in my head, I'm like,

well, of course I trust Glennon. And so I was like, I was on a Zoom with this woman and I'm like, well, I trust, so I trust my, I trust, I trust my wife. And she's like, looking at me weird. And I'm like, I can't say it. Out loud, what the fuck? Because it was like, it was too vulnerable.

Too scared. I was too scared to say it, not to you, to her. I was like, what the fuck? What felt to vulnerable about it? If I set it out loud, it was real. And if it was real, then it could be taken. Then it could be taken away. And so that we, I got off the call with that with my therapist and I came upstairs and I sat down and I said, you remember this? Yes, I was in the middle of I was like doing an email and she sits down next to me. She goes, I didn't even know she just sat there be okay. I'm just like trying to get through my day. I'm sitting at the computer. She walks up. She sits down next

and she goes, I trust you, blooded. I was like, me too, babe, me too, babe, just finishing the email. She's like, no, I trust you in writing. I'm like, what is happening? It was just such a big deal to me. And do you just trust me in that moment? Because trust can mean so many different things to so many different people. In that moment, where you, defining trust as I believe I could bring to you, my anger, my shame, my weakness, all the things, and you would stay. Yes. Right. Yeah. And I will also be super honest.

But four seconds after I said it, look, I'm early in therapy folks, I don't judge me for this. I said, but you're not going early in therapy folks, so don't judge me for this. I said, but you're not gonna leave me, right? Yeah. You're still, like, you won't ever leave me, right? I was like, I don't even know what's going on. She's like, I'm just just mellow over here. Incredibly disruptive confession that I trust you.

I need you to tell me that you're not going to leave me. You know what I was just thinking babe is when I think about all the ways that you used to allow your anger to come out, none of it had to do with people. You only let your anger come out about things, about machines that broke in our house, about car situations, Trottings, food. But if I brought up anything with a person or relationship and said,

doesn't that piss you off, you'd be like, oh, yeah, but they're trying to, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah, but it was always a reframe if it was about a person or relationship and said, doesn't that piss you off? You'd be like, oh, yeah, but they're trying to, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, oh, yeah, but it was always a reframe if it was about a person because things can't leave you. Yeah. You can bring your feelings to things because they won't go. Yeah, I mean, this is the truth.

I want to be the kind of person that doesn't have these problems. But I also want to be the kind of person, more than that, that has these problems and can have the most grace for myself. And that is what I'm trying to bridge. I'm trying to bridge that gap because I know all of us have so many problems that we work through on a daily basis and the world is throwing shit at us every single day. And I guess this whole path I'm walking right now is truly about loving my whole self

and not being afraid of myself. I think that there's a part of me that is afraid. Not only of losing people, but like that I am unlovable and God, I just wanna fucking, I want to once and for all feel like I love myself and that I am not in jeopardy because of that love of anything. That is my dream for myself then. I have just learned so many fucked up messages through my life about humanity and people and we all do. But my God, that should be something

that is just to neatly in me. And I feel like such a failure for not even being able to like, I know I'm a good person, but how could I not love myself? Like why is that so fucking hard for me? And it's not fair And I'm just like I just feel disappointed because it feels like the work of my life and I don't I don't know

I don't know when I die. I don't know if I'm just like, no, that I have this love and I think that this has a lot to do with my fear of death because it feels like such an impossible mountain to climb. And it's like, how do you do that? How do you... I love so big and how can it be impossible? It doesn't feel right. It feels like there's like a glitch in the matrix for me that I don't have the makings of being able to actually love myself

enough that I am not afraid that people might leave me, that I am not afraid of dying, that I am not afraid of existing in some ways. It's just so fucking annoying. And I don't know, like, I think that there are a lot of people that think, I mean, I do understand therapy is so fucking expensive and that is a huge privilege

that I get to have to be able to go and talk to somebody for 50 minutes. And it feels strange to be in this body and to have this spirit and to feel like I don't have that part of me that other people have. Feels like I was born without it or something. And it's been like this thing that's eating at me for my life.

It's frustrating and sad. And I'm so angry because I feel like I have a prop, I have something wrong with me. Tell me what the thing that's wrong with you is, are you the self-love goal, which is so beautiful when you're talking, I'm thinking about that Raymond Carver poem that says, and did you get what you wanted on this earth?

And what was that to feel myself beloved? Like you just want to feel yourself beloved on this earth. By myself, like I want to feel beloved by myself. Yes. When you worry about something being wrong with you, it's so interesting, because this is what you know very well has always been my challenge, like something's wrong with me. Do you see how it would be possible that a kid who's

born into a family where their emotions are shut down, which by the way, was a lot in that generation? And you were not allowed to bring your full self to the table, so part of you was banished. And then you entered the spiritual realm, which was church, where you were told by the people in charge, just like you were told by the people in charge in your home, that the part of yourself that you weren't showing was bad. And if you showed it, you would be banished and sent to hell. And then you got into sports

where only strength and only power is allowed to be shown. And if any weakness or vulnerability is shown, you're banished and you're kicked off the team. Do you see how it would be not just possible but inevitable that having lived that life you would believe over time? You would have had to be insane not to believe that there was a part of yourself that was unacceptable for public consumption and that was bad and evil and unlovable. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I get why I am the way that I am.

Okay. So you don't think that it's something wrong with you, but you do think that it's something wrong with you, because that's what you were taught. Yeah, but here's the thing. This is where I kind of go and circles around this concept, because I understand the landscape. I get it. But it feels like the one thing you're not supposed to lose. It feels like, it feels like breath. How could I be doing this all with no breath? Self love feels like breath, that is right.

And we all lose it. We all lose our breath. It's just like, I don't know, like we can scratch the surface of all of these things. We can even go deep down, but like at the end of the day, like that's what this is about for me. I am scared to feel anger. I'm scared to be in confrontation.

I'm scared to threaten my attachment. I can go through all of the things. And at the end, it's like, what is going to give? What do I need to do? Because I don't hate myself. That's not where we're talking about. I just don't think that I have never, I don't know if it's something you can develop. What would it feel like to you, Abby?

Like, if we don't know how to get there. What would it feel like to you, Abby? Like, if we don't know how to get there, yeah, and that's fine. Can we cast a vision of what it would feel like if you knew you were beloved to yourself, it would feel like this. You would know it because of this. What is the world of your future that you're living in look like when you know your beloved to yourself? I don't know. I think the only thing that I can think of is just like being held in my little blankie when I was a kid. Like that feeling of like complete security.

You know, I have a lot of codependency things that I'm also working on in therapy. Because of this, I have always felt like there was somebody else that would make me love myself. That would make me feel love so much so that I would love myself. And I found you. And what I have realized is like we found each other not only to express ourselves and love each other and have a beautiful family, but to also like figure out how to really love ourselves. And I think that that might be part of like your therapy, but I really hit like a brick wall. Because I'm like, yes, I'm ready.

I understand all the wise. I'm here. Yeah, but why can't it sink in? But why can't I just feel it? I get it. And that is what you mean about when you say earlier, when you were saying like it is a great strategy to protect yourself and keep yourself alone by making sure that you are dreaming into the other preples version of what they can be. Yes. Because as long as they are failing to

meet your standards, you've set for them, it will always be about them. Yeah. It will never be about you. Yeah. So now you're in this relationship where you're like, I've set all these highest of hopes and you and our relationship are meeting them, and yet I still have this thing. Well, that's the absolute beauty of getting everything you've ever wanted, is that you figure out that it didn't do it.

That is the absolute gift of our relationship, is that we thought that we were going to save each other. But what happened is that you studied the boat enough for me to feel safe enough to save myself. And I studied the boat enough for you to feel like you were studying enough to save yourself. Because I mean, I remember when we first got together and you were like, I don't think you're gonna have to take your meds anymore.

She could. I was like, oh, isn't she gonna be surprised about a year? But it is, it is such a gift to it's terrifying, the terrifying gift to get what you want and have it not fix everything. And realize that it's all up to you. And we're going to come back in the next episode and talk more about this. But what I think you just did is I think that you think that you just revealed your dark personal situation. And I think what you just did more beautifully than I've ever seen anyone do it. And more honestly and more crystal clear is that you just revealed the human condition. What you did is reveal with unbelievable beauty, the human condition

of why can't we love ourselves and what did the world do to us to put us in this situation? I thought it was absolutely stunning. And if there's something wrong with you, then that's the thing that's wrong with all of us. And you're more advanced because you've identified it. I'm sitting here this whole time being like, wow, she got to the place where she knows that. I've never even asked myself that question if I love myself. Yeah, it's about all of us. So thank you, babe.

So beautiful. It was, wow. I'm just imagining you for your whole life. I'm visioning it and I'm going to keep thinking about it. The abbey that has access, no matter what's happening, no matter what anger, no matter what conflict, no matter what relationship she's in, to always be able to return to the touch tree inside of you, of you secure under that blanket, and that you will always, always have access to that. That's what I want. Yeah, I think that this goes to part of what we were talking

about earlier too. It's like, that's what I was trying to create my whole life while creating the madness here and the insanity. I was trying to be okay and I was doing it incorrectly. I was managing it wrong. I was drinking. You were managing exactly as you needed to. You were right. Yeah.

You were right that you couldn't bring the needs to your house. You were right that you couldn't bring the needs to your house. You were right that you couldn't bring yourself to church. You were right that you couldn't bring yourself to the sports world. You were right. It's just that now you're suddenly in a place in your life, in your mental health, in your family, where you might not have to use those things anymore.

But you did have to. It got you to where you are now. You were taking care of yourself. But how will I find out for myself once and for all, like, what will be the thing? What is the way? I want to, I'll do anything. So, Pod Squad will be back next with the way. See you next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things first, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss

an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Keen's 13 Studios.

I give you Tish Melton and Randy Carlyle. I walked through a fire I came out the other side. I chased desire I made sure I got what's mine And I continue to believe That I'm the one for me And because I'm mine, I walk the line Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak So man, a final destination

You stopped asking directions And some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do a heartache I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new star

I'm not the problem sometimes things fall apart And I continue to believe You too believe the best people are free And it took some time but I'm finally fine Because we're adventurers in heartbreak So man, a final destination With that we stopped asking directions So places they've never been Come to be loved, we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home

And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do our thing This poor, adventurous and heartbreak's on land, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines in the sun, and the sun shines We'll be loved, we need to be loved We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things Yeah we can do hard things

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