We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 267. The #1 Relationship Strategy with Dr. Becky Kennedy

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

Dr. Becky Kennedy returns to walk us through the #1 strategy for all relationships: REPAIR. She teaches us how to repair by revisiting hard moments to infuse them with love, connection, and new perspectives – and what happens when we don’t repair (it’s not good). Dr. Becky highlights how lack of repair can traumatize us by leaving us alone to make meaning of disconnection.  Plus, we deep dive into the difference between repair and apology, and why it can be so hard to apologize (particularly for Abby to the kids and for Glennon to Abby). About Dr. Becky:  Dr. Becky Kennedy is a clinical psychologist, bestselling author, and mom of three – who’s rethinking the way we raise our children – and named “The Millennial Parenting Whisperer” by TIME Magazine. Dr. Becky is the author of the #1 New York Times bestseller Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be and founder of the Good Inside Membership platform, a hub with Dr. Becky’s complete parenting content collection all in one place. Dr. Becky hosts Good Inside with Dr Becky, a chart-topping podcast with over 20M downloads. In 2023, Dr. Becky delivered a TED Talk in which she shares “the single most important parenting strategy”. TW: @goodinside IG: @drbeckyatgoodinside To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And to be loved we need to be known. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Alright, so here's the deal. I thought long and hard about what episode I want to crush a spot squad as you head into the holidays. Okay? What is the one thing that we could just keep close to us, what idea as we go into this time that is so fraught for so many people,

whether it's like too many people surrounding us, whether it's not enough people surrounding us, whether it's family that drives a spat-shit crazy or whether it's family that drives a spat-shit crazy. We... that shit crazy or whether it's family, the driver's bat shit crazy. We, it is a, it's the most time of year. Okay.

That is what it is. It is the most. And I found myself watching a TED Talk by my friend, Dr. Becky Kennedy, about the magic of repair. God, it's so... Okay. She calls it the number one parenting strategy in the world. I think it might be the number one strategy in the world.

I think that if we take it with us in all its iterations as we head into this holiday, I don't know what's going to happen. I just think we should. Okay. So one thing we know for sure is that there will be plenty of opportunities for verpair. That's the only thing we know. Yes. And as we go into this episode, Pod Squad, I want you during this holiday to be going about your business, thinking about moments of repair, trying this shit, and then I want you to come back and tell us how it works. Oh my gosh, that would be so fun to hear the voice message.

I really do. I want to know, if you screw everything up and then you repair or you try, I want you to stop your dinner and call our voicemail. Okay. And it's going to be so great you guys because we're usually trying not to screw up, but this holiday, we're going to be celebrating screwing up because it's going to be an opportunity for us to try the number one strategy. What if if you don't screw anything up, you'll be wasting this new information to use the number one strategy in the world. Everybody do not mess up your opportunity to mess up. Don't, you gotta, you gotta capitalize on it. That's what I'm talking about.

It's so freeing, right? Okay, so here to talk to us about repair, the number one strategy that we will use during the most time of year is Dr. Becky Kennedy, who is a clinical psychologist, best-selling author, Mom of Three. She is a rethinking the way we raise our children. She's been named the Millennial Parenting Whisperer by Time Magazine. She is the author of the number one New York Times best-seller Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be. She is the founder of the Good Inside membershiphip Platform and host of the chart topping podcast Good Inside

with Dr. Becky. And her TED Talk about repair is just being shared all around the land. So, Dr. Becky, tell us about repair and how it's going to fix our holidays. Yeah. It really is the number one strategy period in life. It is. It really is because you all know this. You talk about it all the time. We're imperfect beings. Like we are not robots or humans, which means in every important relationship,

we mess up, we struggle or like we just show up in a way that we you know wish we didn't and If that happens for every single person like it would only make sense for every single person to Know what they can do after to feel empowered and to get things back on track for themselves and for their relationship And that's what repair is so repair, it's really the act of returning to a moment where you are disconnected from someone. So you're returning to that moment, you're taking responsibility for your behavior and you're acknowledging the impact it had on someone else. And in doing that, and I'm sure we'll get to just so many amazing things become possible.

Okay, like what? I think the best way to explain the powerful impact of repair has to actually start with what happens when we don't repair because actually just understanding that alternative shows the gap between not repairing and repairing and that gap is just massive. So I'll use an example not with kids. It's, you know, late one night, I've had a long day, and I don't know, my husband asked me some relatively innocent question, and I snap back at him, right? Oh, you're the worst. Or why do you ask me that? Or you're always criticizing me, something like that. And then I kind of walk out of the room. He's probably left being like, okay, you know, I don't know what just happened. And then maybe I go to bed and then I wake up the next morning like nothing happened. But I think we all know there's just, there's not like a closeness between us.

Like we both are just holding on to what happened. So what will happen if I don't repair? Number one, for me, I'm just carrying around this like icky feeling. Like that didn't feel good to me. I didn't like the way I showed up. Even if I'd'd say, hey honey, I wish you asked in a different way. I'm not certainly not proud of my behavior. I'm carrying that around, right? I probably also feel a little ashamed of it, which always makes us hyper vigilant to seeing other people and worrying that they're thinking that about us as well. So it actually almost makes it more likely. Oh yeah, my husband really does think

I'm the worst person ever, right? So I'm hyper vigilant to interpret kind of ambiguous situations in a negative way. I'm holding myself in a negative regard. That's not great. But then for someone else, when you've had a moment, you don't feel good about kid or adult. That moment lives in their body too. We forget that, right?

If I yell at my husband or yell at my kid, like they've already registered the feeling. That does not make us a bad person. It's just information. Once that feeling has registered, either I can go back to that moment and provide a story and offer connection and coherence and love on top of that moment

or that moment just lives on its own. Then the other person has to tell themselves a story about why that happened. Right? And if you think about the story, especially kids tell themselves when their parents don't repair often after yelling, it's not a good story. Like kids have to gain control. They're like, this is my parent who I love and it's supposed to make me feel safe, but I feel bad. You know what story they tell themselves? I'm a bad kid. Yes. It was my fault. It was my fault. Or they tell themselves another disturbing story. I'm not so good at perceiving things. I can't trust myself. That that couldn't have happened. So they either tell themselves a story of self blame. It's all my fault. Or self-doubt. I can't

trust my feelings. And those are probably the two most powerful stories adults still tell themselves in a way that holds them back. And they're not stories we tell ourselves as adults are actually the legacy of those moments and childhood. Versus, if you do repair, what I get to do, and to me the image of this matters, is I get to go back to that moment. It's a chapter in my kids life.

It's a chapter in my husband's life. And I kind of get to like reopen the book. Like I literally get to reopen the book and I get to go back to the point in the chapter. And instead of that being the ending, it's like magic. I get to read right a very different ending to the story. And we all know when you write more of a chapter, the theme of the chapter changes, the theme of the chapter changes, the title

of the chapter changes, the lessons you learn completely change because instead of that bad moment being the end point, that moment is just the part of a much larger story. Okay, so this is my question to you about that. Because it's actually like a magic. Yes. You're kind of changing the past, okay? Because in one of my many therapies, I have experienced this thing where the therapist takes you back to a moment in your life, like in your childhood. And they're like, okay, talk me through the moment.

And then they have me add things to the memory that weren't there. Like, how would that go if you could rewrite it now? So I might say, okay, well, this person would have been here and this person would have been, they would have said this instead of that. And so this is a thing you do over and over again because memory is the thing that happened plus every time you thought about it. Yes. Memory isn't what just happened.

It's what happened plus every time you thought about. So if you think about it differently, if my 47-year-old self thinks about a memory from when I was eight differently, it changes the actual memory of the thing. So I think what you're saying, Dr. Becky. Okay, let's just throw my parents under the bus here because that's what we do on this pot. So let's say the thing happened when I'm eight. If they come back a week later and sit me down and say, okay, we're thinking about that moment where we lost connection. Here's we want to talk to you about it. This is what we could have done differently.

That memory is changing then instead of me having to wait until I'm 47 to change the memory. It's like photoshopping life. It's like magic. It's changing the past for them as they go forward, correct? That's exactly right. Yes, that is completely scientific. Memory is not a recollection of events.

It's events plus every other time you've remembered that event. And the thing I'd add or shift a little is, it's not just how we think about it. It's new experiences. It's really how we're feeling and those new experiences. This is why therapy is effective. If you actually think about therapy, why does it change people's life?

Because the events in our path that impacted us still happened, it's because when you have a series of moments where you're recalling events in the context of a new, safer relationship, the events remain and your story of the events change. And you all know, this stories are what matter to us. Events never actually were the thing that traumatized us. The story we told ourselves about events, traumatized us, mainly traumatized us in the first place because we were left alone with it

and had to make up the stories ourselves as kids. This is why at'm 43 years old. I am literally going back into my life, trying to figure out what is real. Because the story I have, I am now realizing might not actually be real, because I was left alone to my own devices to create the story. And so for so long, I've been in some ways blaming other people. When in fact, a lot of this story I have told myself throughout my life is my own doing. And that's a responsibility. So not only going back and trying to shift that story in some way, but it's also important that that is my doing. That is my psychology. And that is how all of this obviously we want to repair this stuff, but there's so many of

us that didn't get that opportunity. How do we do that now in our 43-year-old tough bodies? And it's important to say, so let's say it's my kid. I yell at my son in the kitchen. He's alone in his room. If I don't go repair, kids are so amazing. They're so crafty. And so for all of us as adults listening to this, who say I do tend to blame myself or doubt myself.

Oh, why do I do that? Like I really mean this. We should come at that with deep respect and appreciation for our childhoods. Like I was alone and overwhelmed in my room and I figured out some way at my own disposal to tell myself a story to then operate in the world again and assume things were safe enough to continue and grow. That is so compelling. And actually, we can start to really shift things in ourselves when we do start to approach ourselves with that deep, not just compassion, but like deep appreciation for what we figured out how to do, right? And I say this quote in my TED Talk to me, it's just so powerful. I want to share it here, Ronald Fairburn said it many, many years ago, that for kids, it's better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than to live in a world ruled by the devil.

And to me, this explains almost everything in child development, that when you're caught in a moment as a kid where something happened, especially if it's what's your caregivers who are supposed to keep you safe, that doesn't feel good. You have two options. The badness can be outside of you or the badness can be inside of you. And as bad as it seems to say, oh, why would a kid put the badness inside? What if a kid put the badness outside? You'd be literally psychologically unable to function as a small, helpless child.

And so you take it in. you assume it's your own. And when I go repair with my son, you, as no, I'm a very visual person, what motivates me more than anything else to go repair? Because up me too, I'm like, but he was so difficult. And again, we all have all of our reasons. We want to not do it. It's just human.

I literally imagined myself snatching the self-blame and the self-d doubt out of his body. I do. I'm going to go get that. I'm going to go get it out. I'm going to take it out. And he's never going to really thank me for it. I don't think I don't think I'll ever know.

Over the course of his life that that is one of the biggest privileges I can actually give him to think that sometimes when bad things happen in relationships, it's not my fault. I can't trust my assessment that something didn't feel good in a relational moment. I know that's true. And it isn't something I caused. Like, that is going to help my kids, my daughter, like so much. Yes. My daughter? Like so much. The creative process is not always an easy one.

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On the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever else you listen. ["The Differences Between Epsom and Apology"] What is the difference between repair and apology? So, yes, I think the difference is how we feel. I think like language around it, how I think about it, is apologies often in our life serve to shut a conversation down, right? And he's not a person.

Kid and we say I'm sorry. I yelled okay, can we move on or we say I'm sorry you felt that way Or we say I'm sorry, I yelled but listen if you just got your shoes on when I asked I mean it wouldn't have happened right that is not a repair and I think again the visual of the difference is An apology is like my kids sitting on a couch and I go up to them and say something and like run away. I'm like, oh, good. I got it over with. Where a reject care is like sitting next to them on the couch and actually looking at them and like lingering and like kind of staying.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For anyone who is thinking to themselves, that would have been great to know 35 years ago. Yes. Or, I'm not buying it. Or it's too late for me anyway, so what good is this knowing this? Are you willing to walk us through the exercise that you did in your TED Talk?

Yes. I just should say, I love skeptics. I really do. I love skeptics. This is why we get along so well. I do. Like skeptics think deeply about things before they want to incorporate new ideas.

I value that. And I think skepticism is a cause of curiosity. And curiosity is amazing. So they sit very close to each other. So appreciate skepticism. There's very few things I say in a very direct way. I'm always like, there's a lot of nuance. But to me, what I can say with complete conviction

is not too late. It is never, ever too late. And to me, there's evidence of research and things like that. I appreciate that evidence that's real. And I often do think that some of the evidence that gives us the most conviction and something is the evidence that gives us the most conviction and something is the evidence in our body. I really, really do.

And so, yes, I'd ask us to walk through this exercise. So, you know, you're worried, it's too late. My kids are older or it's not one thing I did. I'm yelling at my kids. It's like a pattern of things I did for 30 years. You know, how do I repair for that? Or my kid is already X years old, you know, they're cooked.

Here's what I say. So just imagine that you get a phone call right after you listen to this podcast episode from one of your parents. And for anyone whose parents are both deceased, imagine you get home and find some letter and some drawer that you had it seen until that moment. So we'll walk through the phone call. drawer that you had it seen until that moment. So we'll walk to the phone call. Hey, I know this is going to sound kind of out of the blue, but I've just been thinking a lot about your childhood. And there are so many things that happened between us that I'm sure felt really bad to That I'm sure felt really bad to you. And you were right to feel that way. I want you to know that I'm really sorry.

Those moments weren't your fault. They were moments when I was struggling. And if I could go back, I just would have stepped aside and calm my own body and then found you to figure out what was really going on for you. So I could have helped you. And if you're ever willing to talk to me about any of those moments, I'll listen. I won't listen to have a rebuttal. I'll listen to understand. I love you. I'll listen to understand. I love you. And I just, I mean, I don't know many adults are like nothing.

I have no impact on me. I remember actually doing this exercise for the first time with a therapy client who was the man in his fifties, who is very stoic on the surface. And he just why am I crying, why we're crying ever, and things that don't always make sense to us in the moment is I think our body a part of us is hearing something we've literally always needed to hear. And it's relief, it's relief of a part of us that we don't even realize how many things we've held in self-blame. And what I know is if there's a listener here who says, wow, that imagined exercise with my own parents would have an impact on me. I feel like that's all the evidence I would ever need to say, consider the impact an actual repair would have on your child who is younger than you.

Your child is always younger than you are, which means the stories of their lives are shorter and that much more amenable to editing. And so it's not too late. It's not going to change everything and it will change some things. It always does. Can we talk a little bit about why it's so damn hard to do it? Because the case for it is so obvious that it almost begs like, okay, so duh. Let's do it.

And yet, I actually find myself when I'm talking about these things, I feel bad for the generation right before me, because they weren't taught this. They were taught that a good parent, like it's easy for us to say, why the hell weren't they doing this? Why were we all in our bedrooms alone, trying to figure out the world? Why did no one apologize to us? But their model for what was a good parent was not that.

It's not that they thought they were being bad parents. They were trying to be good parents, but good parenting was seen as invulnerability. You don't let them see you sweat. You don't let them see your imperfection. You are insolable. You said something so briefly on something recently where you said we are imperfect parents.

And that's okay because we are preparing our kids for a very imperfect world. Yeah. We're actually perfect for this shit. Yes. Yes. We are nailing it. Yes. So why We are nailing it. Yes.

So, so why is it so hard? Like I find I can apologize to my kids like nobody's business. I do it left at night. I do it 10 times a day. They're so annoyed. I recommend with teenagers writing short letters because they don't want you to come to their room six times. So just, but it's very hard for me to apologize to Abby.

Yeah. Why is it so hard to apologize or to repair? Yeah. Two reasons come to mind for me. So one, having a really hard time apologizing can look on the surface like being pretty cold hearted, right? And actually under the surface, there's so much intense vulnerability. And it's actually, in that way, very similar to why

toddlers don't apologize, right? We're like, say sorry, say sorry. Because in a moment, if you have conflated your behavior with how you think about yourself as a person, oh, I yelled at my kid. And then if you go into, I'm a horrible mom, let's say, you will literally be unable to apologize from that place. You can't repair because you can't literally face the reality that you

did a thing that made you a bad person. We can't as humans feel bad inside. We actually can't. It's so disintegrating, right? And so we will avoid facing something if we think that thing brings on badness. It's actually adaptive for us to avoid it. So that's one reason, which is again why when you think about kids who want to apologize, we're like, what's wrong with you? Say sorry to your cousin. All we're doing is actually making them more stuck in that. Or when we say to ourselves, what's wrong with me? I know I want to apologize to my wife, what is wrong with me? Which is probably what we say to ourselves, also making ourselves more frozen in that shame state.

Shame is really feeling bad and unlovable, right? So that's one reason. Related to that, but a little more concrete is that we're very used to telling ourselves the story of kind of justifying our action by like focusing on the other person's actions. It's hard to separate those, right? So when it's a kid, it's like, well, I would have never yelled at my kid if they just listened to me the first time.

And it feels like, again, we mix up these things. And if I repair, like we've told ourselves a story, doesn't even make sense. I'm laughing. If I repair, it's like I'm saying to my four-year-old that it's okay they don't listen to me. I don't know who made that up, those equivalences. It's totally not saying that, but we justify to ourselves

or even think I can't repair because I don't want to quote reinforce my kids' bad behavior. And I think we even do that in our marriages, right? Because whenever we would repair, I'm sure there is something in someone else that triggered us or that we didn't marriages, right? Because whenever we would repair, I'm sure there is something in someone else that triggered us or that we didn't love, right? But all repair as soon as you repair. That's right, exactly.

It's like a, we're like in a standoff, you know? Like I'll do it if you do it, right? But I think what we really miss there is like the gift of repair to ourselves. Like when you don't repair in a relationship that's meaningful to you. Not only does it harm you, the person and your relationship, it's just, it's such an awful feeling we walk around with.

And so I've been in that in my marriage too, where I'm like, yes, to repair first, you know? And honestly, what helps me is I'll say, I'm really doing this for me. It's gonna benefit him, it's gonna benefit our marriage. But like, I hate this feeling. And like, I know separate from what he did, I didn't act in a way I'm proud of.

That's true for me in a encapsulated way. And I'm gonna feel better if I start out that way. And so I think to make that again concrete is the missing step in repairing with someone else that most of us aren't taught, is you actually have to do what I call like a self-repair first. And to me, repairing with yourself is the process of separating what I did from who I am. For anyone listening, not driving, like I really recommend putting your hands out and separating

them and looking at one and saying, this is what I did. That's my behavior. And me and you both, we'd say, I wasn't so good. Nope, that was not a great behavior. That one. Nope. Okay. And keep that hand far away from the other one. And then you look at the other hand and you say, this is who I am. That's my identity. So on the one side, he say, what I did, my quote, bad behavior. And on the other side, who I am, my good identity. And when you remind yourself, those are separate. And essentially, I'm a good person

who did not such a good thing. You start to find your groundedness, right? Because now you can face the behavior because it's not an indication that you're some horrible monster. So people who have a strong sense of self and who they are, can apologize and can repair well.

And people who might feel like they have adult imposter syndrome where someone's about to just figure them out every second in their marriage might not want to apologize because they think that the other person might figure out that they don't know what the hell they're doing ever. But you think that I haven't done all of that equation already.

I already know all of this. I think that I'm a better actor. And I give you the more grace because I know that deep down you think that you're a bad person and then I'm gonna find it out. And I just don't believe that. And I'll never believe that. So here we are.

I love that though, that it's about self-knowing. That's beautiful. And I think that's one of the reasons why we don't repair with our kids is because we are worried that they are collapsing the two hands. We are worried that if we walk back in there every week and a half and say, hey, remember, I did the thing again, not so great that they are going to take as like the headline of that. Mommy is bad and mean, and I know it for sure because she keeps coming in here telling me

that she was bad in me. But that is not true. Like you go back to Becky's visual. We are not going back in there to save our reputation with our kids. We are going back in there to snatch the self blame, which they're putting on themselves. We are not creating a gulf between us and our kids.

We are adding back in safety and closeness. Yes. So good. Yes. And good. Yes. And when you do that, because I want to speak to all the very practical parents who are probably thinking like I would too, but when's my kid gonna put their shoes on

in the morning when I ask? Yeah. Okay, because that's really true, because that's how I think too, about how are we gonna get there? Because I like to have all the things checked off too. Okay, as long as you're sitting there, not repairing. Oh, my kid. Yeah, I

mean, I guess I wouldn't have been able, but they never listened to me in the morning, right? Okay. They're not listening to the morning. It's only going to increase because now in their body, they have more fear. Now they feel more disconnected from you. Guess what? The only reason kids listen is because they feel connected to you. They don't really care about putting on their shoes and they'll do it because they feel close and connected to you. So now decreased likelihood. But once I've repaired and let me just this is it's not a repair if you add and I just have to say this, okay, you know, but next time listen and it won't happen like we know how it feels. It just doesn't count. It's a good try and next time we're gonna, you know, do a little better. So a repair is something you first give yourself. And then you give someone else. And actually, the repair to yourself matters, especially for a parent. And this

because unless I've really repaired with myself and accessed like really my own internal goodness separate from my behavior, I'm going to be looking for my kid to validate that in response to my repair. Is that okay? It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Now, right? Is it okay? It's okay now, right? We're okay. You still love me, right? My kid is now having the responsibility of doing something that's really not their job and is my job. And so by the time I go repair, I have to have done that for myself, so I can just give it. I'm not really expecting a response. But then the benefit is this. So in my family, let's say I yell at my kids, they're never running the morning, I repair, hey, no matter what, it's not okay to yell at you like that. That's not your fault.

I'm working on managing my feelings, okay, all that stuff. I then tell myself, and it's so arbitrary, and just like 24 hour rule, 24 hours later. Now that I'm reconnected with my kid and we're on the same team, I can then say to my kid, instead of, but you need to get your shoes on. I can say, hey, you're not thinking about, neither of us like the mornings,

when there's so much chaos. And I'm just wondering what we can think about doing to just make putting on shoes a little bit easier. Let's come up with that together. And any parent is like, do you think my four-year-old is gonna really come up with, yes, yes, they will, because kids are amazing problem solvers when they feel safe and connected,

just like adults are. And so now that I've connected with my kid, I can actually get to the heart of things. Maybe we come up with, or maybe I realize, you know what, it's hard for a foyerold to know what to do. I'm gonna put a little visual schedule, nothing fancy, but just something at the door that says sock shoes out the door. Maybe I put my kids socks by the door,

cause it's just easier to get ready, right? Now I can actually do something practically helpful or help my kid build a skill they didn't have in the first place, which would literally never happen if I was blaming my kid for my behavior. I would like you to give us a couple examples of what is a good repair and what is actually not in fact a repair. It's not a repair if we come in and say,

here's what mommy did or Abby, here's what I did and it would have been so much easier. I'm so sorry and it would have been better for me if you would not have started the whole thing. Like that, not a repair. But the beauty of it and I just think this is so gorgeous. It's like, you know, that Japanese pottery where they put the golden, and then it's more beautiful in the cracks, and it ever would have been without the cracks.

Repair, it's not like the second best thing after you've screwed it up. Mm-hmm. It's, you will never have a more connecting tool in the world. You will never have something that makes you closer to your person than this thing, which means if you don't have dropped moments of connection, which we call fuckups or whatever, if you don't mess it up, you will never have this beautiful thing.

Like it comes only if and because you quote unquote dropped the ball or messed it up or overreacted or whatever you did, it's gold that you only get if you do the screw up. It's the opposite of how we think. Like the best thing would be if we just didn't screw up at all. No, no, that would not be the best thing. That's right. That's not a thing. And it's true. Like when you think about especially with your kids or or even with another adult, right? The world has ruptures. Our closest relationships have moments that don't feel good.

I even think like the worst thing for my kids would be to go out into adulthood with a model of a relationship, which let me slow that down. The way we relate to our kid becomes the model they take into the world of what to expect in intimate adult relationships. We call those more sexual relationships maybe, right?

That's not what we have, but they're both intimate relationships. So I don't think any of us want our kids going into the world saying, you know who I'm looking for? A partner who is always perfectly attuned to my needs. Can't wait to find that person. That is a recipe for disaster. That's just literally never gonna happen.

What I think the best it gets is a kid saying, I'm looking for someone who, in general, tries to be attuned to my needs and care about them. And when we have moments that feel really bad, can own their part of that story. I mean, that's what I want for my kids. And they will not have that if I don't repair, but they also will not have that if I don't mess up. That is 100% true. And so

the next time you yell at your kids, and I mean it, I want you to hear my voice saying, okay, step one, yell at my kids, crushed it, crushed it, checked it off halfway there. Look at me, head of the game. You know, people always say the first step is the hardest step. I already did it. I already did the hardest step. Amazing.

Okay, what's next? Oh, repair. Okay. I'm all wetting on the path, right? So truly, let's get that reframe. So in terms of the actual language in that moment, I'd also say I'd I'd like to be too prescriptive because you'll know what feels good, but also language can help us kind of walk through a door. We've never walked through before. So to me, just naming what

happened, again, one of the things that removes self-doubt from a kid is just validating that their perception actually is true. So name what happened, take responsibility, and kind of say what you do differently the next time. So that might say, hey, I'm thinking about earlier when I yelled at you in the kitchen. And like really, for a kid, they're like, oh, that thing that did happen. I was right. Right? I was right. Right. I was there. I was there. Yes. A language

I like in general to say to my kid is you were right to notice that I feel like that's such powerful thing for kids to hear Parents say it's kind of like you were right that happened. So I'm thinking about earlier when I yelled at you in the kitchen I'm really sorry and it's never your fault when I yell and I'm working on stayingham even when I'm frustrated something like that. And what I'm really doing there is I'm both reminding my kid that they actually are accurate perceivers of their environment. We can do another episode on that and how I actually think we train kids to tune out their perceptions. Don't talk about that. Don't say that. That's not nice or we don't

basically say to them, yes, you are really seeing what you see. So we're making sure we say, yes, that happened. And then when you say to a kid, and I know this is tricky, like when you say it's never your fault when I yell, I think that really matters. And I know it's easy to say, you say, it's never your fault when I yell, I think that really matters. And I know it's easy to say, but I wouldn't have yelled if they didn't complain about dinner. I always imagine like if my kid is married, and I don't know, their wife cooks dinner

and it's not very good. And they end up yelling and say, look, I'm sorry I yelled, but it wouldn't have happened if the dinner you made just tasted better. Like I don't know one parent. It'd be like, I'm so proud. That's my, that's my boy. Like, that's my girl over there.

Like, we're pairing like a champ. I think we'd be horrified if we heard that. I wouldn't have yelled at you if you remember Toilet Paper, you know, I'm just saying. Like, and so you cannot apologize to your kid in that way and expect your kids to be able to do that. And so to me, I often think about that. And it's not our kids fault when we yell.

The truth is, the way we regulate our emotions and our own circuitry was inner bodies way longer than we even had that child. And that's what the bad man is. Right? That's right. And it is the goal. None of us are completely regulated. No.

But like, as a parent, that is a good goal. That is something to work towards. I am working towards regulating my own anger. And you can say that we're never going to be there. So you can say that for the rest of raising your kids' life. But it actually is the goal. It actually is what we, as adults, the dream that we want, that we should be able to be regulated to not be triggered

by the kids behavior or anyone else's behavior. Because what you're saying is for people who are listening that don't have little kids and will not be repairing in that way over this holiday season. If your sister-in-law comes into the kitchen in the same scenario and asks you where the tofu is and you just And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go.

And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to go. And that's where you're going to notice how I told you to fuck off. Some version of that. Well, first, you're gonna take yourself to the bathroom.

And I mean, that's what you're gonna say. Okay. Okay. Like, I'm not proud of my latest behavior. My latest behavior doesn't define me. You have to separate that first. That self-repair. You can't skip it.

Right. And then, yeah, some version of, hey, I'm sorry I snapped at you. Like, I'm feeling stressed, wasn't your fault. I'm sure that felt bad. And I bet your sister-in-law's can be like, that was the nicest moment of my holiday. Yes, exactly. That was the best moment of my whole holiday.

And if you are seeing family and you're thinking, I feel bad about something that happened last year. It is why I need to consider this, right? To me, the phrase, when someone says to me, I was thinking about and then tells me something that happened a while ago. I think that would happen last holiday. And I don't know if you still are, but I have, and I'm sorry, you know, my experience is like, you were thinking about me for a year. Yes. That's so beautiful. Like, that is, that is always received. It's such an amazing way.

You were thinking about me, you were holding me, and your mind, you were considering, you know, that is so powerful for someone to hear. And I bet set your entire holiday week off in a different direction by just naming that from the start. So yes, I think in all of our relationships, when you wanna work on getting regulated a little bit, you know more often and repairing a lot more often Okay, I have a follow up question to this because this is something that I find myself doing. I bring context into repair or other ways of saying it is excuses, reasons why.

That I think are important. Can you include context or reasons? Give an example. For me, recently something happened where I overreacted, I got woken up in the middle of the night, we have teenage kids, I overreacted. And so in the repair, I was trying to explain to them when I get woken up in the middle of the night, I got super triggered. Some of my past is a part of this.

Can that be a part of every pair or is it like, hey, I really want to work on get overreacting in moments that absolutely don't call for it. And I'm really sorry. I'm trying to figure out if I need to repair the repair. Okay. I want to first give you the ability to like, I hate the term overreaction if it works for you, then use it. But again, I would say there's a story there. Yeah. There's a story there and it matters to understand it. So that's number one.

You know, I think one thing I'd say is when we really do that moment or two, maybe it's longer of self-repair, we probably don't feel as much of a need to provide context to someone else because I think our context is a bid For someone else to see us as a good person. That's right. That's right. Okay. Right having said that It doesn't have to be so blocker white. I think I'd be like is this useful for someone is this useful? Sometimes in the moment, it's not I think we all know when you're receiving a repair You're smelling anything that feels like a not repair. So again, like I always like that 24 hour rule, if you feel like it is useful them to know I could see it going

back and saying, by the way, again, yesterday, not your fault, I really want to work on that for me, for you, for us, all of it. And I thought it might be good for you to know that when I do get woken up in the middle of the night, I've realized I'm making this up. Someone putting their hand on my leg, like, is actually a much more soothing way for me to get woken up and it startles me less because there's things from my past that lead to that startle response. And I just thought that might be useful for you to know, again, not your fault. But like, if you actually think that's helpful to them, and I think

same is this helpful to someone else? Or is this a way I'm avoiding kind of again, finding my own good identity? That's where I'd answer the question. That's why I think it's so interesting that I am really cool with apologizing to the kids all the time. I have a very hard time apologizing to you. You have no problem apologizing to me, but it's so hard for you to apologize to the kids, but easy to apologize to me. Yeah. And I think it's because I have so much confidence

in my being a good mom, but I don't have a lot of confidence yet about being a good partner. And I struggle with my confidence in parenting and I'm pretty confident in my ability to be a spouse. Yeah, it's interesting to think about who is the, who are the people that you have the most trouble apologizing to?

Because it's probably because you're insecure. Yeah, about your part. It's such vulnerability. I feel most vulnerable there. I question myself and like my, whatever, my loveability, my good enoughness, they're the most right and yeah that framework is so powerful at least you know for you Glennon that's so powerful no about Abby and like when she's struggling with the kids in some ways just

saying her look you're a great parent. That's probably more helpful, ironically, to help someone go repair, right? That is anything else, because they're trying to access that. You have told me that, you've told me that. You've been like, I need you to be on my side. I need you to be on my side. So that's what you're saying.

It's like, I need confidence, so that I can, oh, okay. So you all, we're gonna go into these holidays or whatever we're gonna spend the next week. We are gonna hopefully screw up so much that we have example after example of these repairs that are gonna be just life changing. And we cannot wait to hear how they go well

and how they don't. Okay. May your cup of runneth over with opportunities to repair. Art number. If you want to stop, if you want to like get up from the the the holiday table and tell us about the repair is 747 205 307. And you all I love you so much. But when you call us, it's actually not a podcast length of time that we can hear your voice. So just try to smush it.

Smush it into a smaller amount of time and happy holidays, happy holidays, or happy as holidays or holidays or have one of the holidays and give us a call. Yeah. Dr. Becky, thank you for everything. I'm just going to like look you again for in a few months. So we can't wait. Figure out what else the hell you're thinking about. Happy holidays.

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and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Keynes 13 Studios. I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlyle. I walk through a fire, I came out, the other side. So fire I came out the other side I chased is I here I made sure I got once money

And I continue to believe that I'm the one for me And because I'm mine, I want the line Cause we're adventurers in heartbreak So man, A final destination They stopped asking directions Some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring

We can do a heartache I hit rock bottom it felt like a brand new star I'm not the problem sometimes things fall hard And I continue to believe The best people are free And it took some time But I'm finally fine cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on man a final destination

with that we stopped asking directions so places they've never been In the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, dark, the dark, dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, dark, the dark, the dark, dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, the dark, the dark, the dark, dark, the dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, the dark, the dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, the dark, dark, dark, dark, dark And pain that our lives bring We can do a hard thing This world finished her rose and heart breaks on mine. We might get lost, but we're only in that. We've stopped asking directions. In the walking directions Some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be long We'll finally find our way back home Through the joy and pain

That our light's free You're in pain that our lives breathe We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things What made you