We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 280. Valentine’s Day: You Must Listen to This–Huge Surprise!

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Glennon, Abby and Amanda battle over their very different views of Valentine’s Day, and absolutely shock the pod squad with a MASSIVE Surprise at the end—stick around, you do not want to miss it!�� Discover:  Abby, Amanda and Glennon’s clashing perspectives on V-Day and what your take says about YOU; The simple tool to get exactly what you want, whether you’re in a relationship or not; How did Valentine’s Day start and is it satisfying to anyone?; and Possibly the most exciting thing that has ever happened on the pod! Listen until the end for a MASSIVE surprise you don’t want to miss! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, it's the most lovable time of the year. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things, folks! Oh my God, it is so perfect that you jumped in to do the introduction with all of your excitement because of the topic that we're talking about today. It's your baby. It's my favorite. What is it? We are talking about Valentine's Day,

the best day of the year. No, it is not the holidays that you've come to think of and love and know. It is the heart holiday, my favorite. Have you always loved Valentine's Day, Abby? Yeah, well, I've always loved love. And so this is like the day that I get to express it. And it's funny because it's just something that's in me.

I don't expect anything. Don't worry, babe. I don't expect you to like go above and beyond. But I love Valentine's Day. I like walk around and I'm looking for the people who are love and in love. And, you know, back in the day when we used to go to restaurants, it was like my favorite time to go to the restaurant. There was like hearts and red everywhere.

Do you believe this? There are two types of people and we are talking about both of them today and Abby represents a caricature of one of them. So Valentine's Day is hilarious because it is the holiday that people love or they love to hate. It is a very fascinating thing. So what does it tell about us, our approach to Valentine's Day? Well, just for me, it just makes me know when people are like in hatred of Valentine's Day, they're just not good people.

Oh, I'm just kidding. Well, it's interesting that you said you love it or you love to hate it. I like that framing because it's not like you love it or hate it. It's like something about your identity. You're either attached to yourself as a lover of love or you're attached to yourself as a cynic of a love and your belief

that everything is just capitalism. Right? Well, people who love to hate on Valentine's Day. I don't think would say that they love to hate love. I think that they would say that Valentine's Day is like this manufactured, inauthentic misrepresentation of love. But there is a little thou doth protest too much. If you're very, very excited to slam on it, then maybe there is a little something else happening. The way that I think about it is a little bit like your choice in movies, okay? Now hear me out.

This is a big generalization, but I think that I might be right. So there's a kind of person that can sit down and watch a movie. Sometimes it's like a rom-com, right? Usually it is for you, Abby. Exactly. I love rom-coms. I love a happy ending. I even love like a sad ending, but there's some sort of love situation that's happening.

And then you have other kinds of movie watchers. I know you're looking right at me for a reason. Who scoff. At any rom-com. Scoff is a good word. Just general disdain and contempt. When we're choosing a movie and I'm like, I don't know, love actually, although you-

Oh, I love that one. I mean, listen, the notebook, get me out of here with the notebook. One of my favorite movies of all time. I've never seen the notebook ever. Oh my God! What do you want? Not what your mom or your dad wants. What do you want? Oh my God, it's so good. Oh God, I cry. Hey babe. I watch it three times. If you're a bird, I'm a bird. That's sweet. So whenever we're trying to pick a movie, Glennon often scoffs at my movie choices. I'm sorry.

Because I think, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you really value your time and I wanna give that to you. And I think that you don't wanna be the kind of person that watches Romcoms. No, it's not it. It's the same thing as Valentine's Day. It's like- But you don't wanna be the kind of person that watches's the same thing as Valentine's Day. It's like- But you don't wanna be the kind of person

that watches romcoms and likes Valentine's Day. Cause I think that you look down on those kinds of people maybe. No! No, wrong. Wrong. See, you people, you people think we're bad. No.

I don't think you're bad. You think you're misguided. All right. In our culture. Which culture are we talking about right now? America. In your culture of the two of you? America. No, not lesbian culture, not I would ever.

In America, let's just say. The Western world. I feel like having a romantic partner that is like a good, solid, healthy bond is like a good, solid, healthy bond, is like the most over-celebrated, over-emphasized thing in the entire world, overvalued, over-celebrated, all the things, okay? I don't think that people who are killing it in that area need a day where then they get to celebrate that thing

publicly and make everybody else feel worse. It's like, why don't we just in March? It's like men's history month. Exactly. Why don't in March we just have a financially independent day. Everybody who has lots of money, they just get to post their money on Instagram and be like, yay, money.

I love money. Romantically happy people. I am one of them. We don't need a day to rub that in everyone else's face. We already have, do you know what I'm saying? It's, I don't think that that's what it's about. I don't think that Valentine's Day is about rubbing it in other people's faces.

It feels like it is. I know that you think that. I remember being in relationships before and not feeling the ways and the comfort and the joy that I feel in this marriage and this relationship. And like, I feel like I celebrate it almost every single day. You do. That's true. You do.

And I feel like, why not take that door? What's wrong with, that's the good door. That's the- Because you're beautiful and loving and embodied and you know what love is. And that's like knowing the other person and knowing the other person so much that you're making little gestures

to make that person feel seen and make their life easier. It feels like, okay, and just let me try to explain this. I'm gonna let you. It feels like it's a check the box kind of situation where, okay, it's February 14th. So I have this partner. So now I'm going to do the little bare minimum thing that means I'm going to get the box checked on that thing. So I'm going to go get like the freaking. Chocolate. Chocolate. Was there a time when women couldn't buy their own f-ing chocolates and so that was supposed to be a big deal?

Yes. Well there was a time when women couldn't buy their own anything, so yes. The answer to all of that is yes. We're still in that. All right, but here's my point. I can fucking buy chocolates anytime I want. I can buy my own chocolates.

Yeah. Why don't you celebrate that on your financial independence? I think I will. But my point is you had heterosexual marriages or a marriage and relationships before that you felt like maybe it was like this one day that like the dude would check off boxes.

And then I had to act grateful for that thing. Okay, but then now you aren't in one of those marriages. One that- But I feel sad for everyone who is. I feel defensive and protective of everyone who is. Don't you think that this is an exercise in not letting yourself actually feel happiness and joy for yourself or what you do have? It feels like at every turn, you're like,

No, I'm not going to celebrate that. You are smart enough to come up with every reason not to celebrate love. Okay, I believe that because on Mother's Day, I feel exactly the same way. I feel worried about every single person who is gonna watch all the posts. Because guess what?

We don't need to celebrate. People who have healthy relationships with their mothers. That's another thing. What the hell? We need to reverse engineer all the holidays and be like, this Valentine's Day is for people who never have found romantic love and it's their fucking day.

And Mother's Day is bad Mother's Day, absent Mother's Day. It's only for people who are lacking in that area and everyone else has shut up. Yeah, I mean, you are in it for the person with the least amount of power. That's like the lens in which you look out at. But what I would say is that you bypass your own joy

and your own gratitude and your own ability to like, I don't know, foster the love inside of yourself for you. I think that is correct. I think she nailed it. Yeah, I think she did. I think for creative lovers like y'all, it is a sweet little, you know, another place to stumble around into some reveling in your love. That's great. But for folks who like aren't in as creative relationships.

I feel like it's both too much and not enough. This idea that if you're not having love expressed and honored throughout the year, this one day of these very cookie cutter gestures are supposed to be the salve that gets you through. It's patronizing. Yeah, it's patronizing. And it's patronizing as shit.

And if you get that, that's supposed to be the end all, be all, but then if you don't even get that, it's like there's a thousand ways to lose Valentine's Day and the win is ungratifying. There's no real win of it. And I think cynicism comes out because cynicism is a mistrust of motives, right? That's what cynicism is.

Thank you, say that again. Cynicism is a mistrust of motives, right? That's what cynicism is. Thank you, say that again. Cynicism is a mistrust of motives. Yes. And I think we get cynicism in Valentine's Day because it feels like the epitome of insincerity. Like we are supposed to believe that 90% of people woke up on this one day and were like, you know what I wish to do spontaneously and

out of the abundance of my overflowing love for my person, I'm supposed to do this gesture of love. And then 95% of those people spontaneously and of their own volition and creativity, decided to do two things. Get some roses, get some chocolates, and or if they're feeling spendy, go out to a dinner where they have a 15 minute interval with the tables pushed so closely to one another that they're being cycled in and out on a price fix menu. Okay? Like, that doesn't feel sincere to us.

No. Because it cannot us. No. Because it cannot be. No. It's like, everyone's just trying not to fuck up. That's great. That's doing the things that they're supposed to do. And then you feel angry.

This makes sense to me a little bit more for you two because I would, sister, I'm gonna put you in Glenin's camp where you're a little bit anti. I think that's safely. Okay. I'm not anti-validating. You're just meh. I'm pro being loving in the way you can all the time.

Okay, but hear me out here. Do you think this has something to do with, first of all, the vulnerability of it and like the sincerity? Because- I'm not great with sincerity. Because I think when these gestures come out Because I'm not great with sincerity because I think when these gestures come out, I'm not great with sincerity. Can we just loop back with that? What do you mean? You're not great with sincerity.

She I'm not great with sincerity. I'm not great with it. I don't know how to sit with it. You're not great with people trying. No, uh, her, her, her, just in love, just in love. With friends and my children, I'm great with sincerity. With a romantic person. It's something. I'm literally in therapy trying to work on not cracking up

when Abby tells me that her feelings are hurt. I can't not burst into laughter, sister. It is awful. And now I'm like, I don't even want to laugh. I don't want my wife's feelings to be hurt, but then she says the thing and I'm staring at her and she's so vulnerable and precious. And then I think of the fact

that I'm not supposed to be laughing. And it's like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters. And soon now all I'm trying to do is not laugh. I don't even know what her feelings are heard about. And then it just comes. It just comes. Okay.

But you do have an issue with any kind of big gestures or like sincerity. And I do think that- Big gestures. I don't like big gestures. In the end, it's like the ability to hold the vulnerability of certain moments that are out of your control. I am paranoid about being patronized, and let me just throw this out there, okay?

I feel like our culture is like, okay, the women are like, you know, still talking about how they need stuff. Like, they just won't go dead enough. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna give them this one fucking day, alright? Valentine's Day. We'll give them Women's History Day, whatever the hell we have. And we'll give them a wedding day. Why do you think that some women turn into such bridesillas on their wedding day? Because they know it's the one effing day. Their whole entire life that anyone has to honor their needs, pay attention to their feelings.

The stakes feel so high because it's not part of our life experience to be centered, celebrated, honored, served. Yeah, but that's not you. All right. There's no male zillows, or whatever they're called, because. Groom zillows. Groom zillows. Yeah, but honey, that isn't your experience in this marriage.

I know, I'm just annoyed for everyone. I understand, but like, what that also does is to be annoyed for everyone. It limits your ability to be happy. I really do understand what you're saying and you keep coming back to this and that is because you are correct. It's interesting though,

because I wonder how many people, is it possible to be individually satisfied and then also be skeptical and annoyed of the whole thing? Yeah, can I be both? Can I be both? Because I do feel happy and in love and also suspicious of the motives. Out of me!

Patriarchy and capitalism. But that's not what this is. Your Valentine's Day is hopefully about me. Yes, I get you. It's not about the world. And it's not about patriarchy. It's about our experience. And we love each other. We don't adhere to the world's rules

on patriarchal ideals and all of that. That's true. Yeah, but you're not talking about fucking Valentine's Day then. Yeah, we're talking about Valentine's Day. America, Mar-ca Valentine's Day. But I am not gonna say one thing. I feel like this is what my therapist would say right now,

so I'm gonna throw this in. Because what I will tell you is that Abby is usually right about me. All right, so flagging that in my brain, I think it is easier for me to live in my head about things. And my head, all my head is, is just a jukebox of complaints about the world. Okay?

That's comfortable for me. But I think that love, and what you're saying is, can you please have an embodied experience with me? Yeah. Can you be in your life, in your body, in your home, in your marriage, in your whatever? And that is a little bit trickier for me to drop into my own experience,

to be embodied instead of intellectualizing everything. But what I hear you saying is that that is sometimes keeping me from an embodied experience of love, which I think my therapist would agree with. I agree. And I also think I'll just say this, I know you. And it doesn't hurt my feelings. That's the good news.

I'm not taking on your, I'll celebrate it. But the truth is we actually, I feel like we're all your long Valentine's Day peeps. Like we just do weird cute little things for each other a lot. The course of true love doesn't always run smooth. She got really like upset and then I got super upset and we were like screaming at each other. I'm Dr. Laurie Santers and in a special Valentine's Day season of my podcast, The Happiness Lab, we'll explore the science of making our intimate relationships more harmonious.

This is like the worst possible way to spend a relaxing vacation. Journalist Charles Duhigg will help us all become super communicators. Everyone knows that experience, right, when you've had a great conversation and you just feel like you're on cloud nine afterwards. And we'll hear from husband and wife relationship experts, the Gottmans. I turned the phone off. You didn't turn it off. On why we should argue better.

I did, yeah. Uh-uh. Listen to the Happiness Lab, wherever you get your podcasts. What about you, Sissy? I feel like when we're talking about this Valentine's Day as it's been constructed and sold, I don't think it's working for very many people. On average, Americans spend $24 billion on Valentine's Day. B, billion dollars.

Three out of 10 Americans go into credit card debt from Valentine's Day spending. And 43% of them hide that debt from their partner. And 46% of people receive Valentine's Day gifts they don't like. Yeah, that's true. This is a model that is not working, okay? We've got a third of the people going into debt

and then half of those people hiding it from their partners. So like celebrating deceit in the celebration of love. And then the half of people who get the gifts don't like them. So I just feel like maybe we could take the way of doing it and maybe mix it up a little bit. So it's working for the actual participants

in the Valentine's Day. So I think maybe just trying something a little bit different rather than the rote thing is the way to do it. Like for me, flowers, never, never with the flowers. Why not? I just feel like, okay, here is this thing that one must fain surprise over, which is literally the least surprising thing that anyone could come up with. Oh, thank you.

But then I, it's something else that I get to take care of by cutting the stems and putting them in the water and then watching them quickly die. And finding a vase, who has a vase? It's handy. Also, don't worry because I paid for half of these. Yeah. This is what I don't understand. It's like cash at me, you know? Like anything other than I'm paying for half of something to watch it slowly die, but that's me.

And then I have to give you a thank you for it. And that's when I really get annoyed. And then like the cards, the cards, to express my individual love for you. I'm going to give you this poem that some dude at Walmart wrote at a table, to express my particular love to you. Also, that card will be $7.95. Yeah, but none of us are fucking as good at writing as you guys are.

But it's not about writing. It's about knowing the person and expressing your particular appreciation for them. Of course, that's such a big element of it. But I also wanna like acknowledge the people out there in the world who are listening to this that might actually love the idea of Valentine's Day. Yes, let's talk about them because I love that for them. I wish that for myself.

Yeah, because here's the thing. There are some people out there that don't have the daily, weekly, monthly check-ins of love with their partners and that this is the one day that they do get. And so I wanna acknowledge those that are in relationships like that. Yeah, I would like to know people who are delighted.

Is there Valentine's Day every day practices that people have that really make them, because really the truth of Valentine's Day is I want to feel known and cherished and delighted in. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you one time I really did feel that. and cherished and delighted in, right? Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you one time I really did feel that. And this was in, I think I was in high school.

Oh, for fuck's sake. No, it's not, listen, it's not what you think. Okay. I was like, it wasn't me? No. And I- The one time in my everlasting life. The hell.

I remember early days, our Valentine's Day was a thing. You've quickly forgotten them. Do you? I want you to remind me. Can you remind me in a minute? But can I just tell this high school story? OK, so I had no boyfriend. And all of my friends had boyfriends at this point.

I felt like I feel now about Valentine's Day. Like here's the day where we go into high school, which is just a little microcosm of culture and all the people who are already just swimming in luck. We'll celebrate that luck. It's like, I know, let's have a quarterback day. Like, you already won, dude. Okay? There's a reason why that person won. It's because they are abundance-minded. Oh my god. Oh, here we go. I'm telling you, now we really jump the shot. There's a reason why that person won. It's because they are abundance minded. Oh my God.

Oh, here we go. I'm telling you, now we really jumped the shot. Here we go, that's what it is. Every quarterback in the country is winning because they have an abundance mindset. Charity up at the high school has a ritual. No, because they believe. I cultivated his abundance.

I'm saying. It's not that he's six two. There are people in the world that believe that they want a certain life and they will have a certain life and they do things to have that life. I'm not saying that- Is Abby bootstrapping us right now?

I'm not saying- She's an athlete, she gets too chinocious. I'm not saying that the football player doesn't deserve status. Like what I'm saying is the people who find themselves in those positions deep down always knew that they were supposed to be in those positions. And there's a reason that people believe that they are in particular supposed to be in certain

situations. That's because people have told them that and sometimes- That's because they're good looking. And they see- In 6-2. And because they've watched so many images of other people who have done that thing, and if they happen to look like that person, then that can really start seeming like self confidence.

I understand what you're saying. I just do believe that for the most part, aside from many factors, I do think that we have lives that we believe that we deserve. That's sweet. Can I tell you my Valentine's Day story? Yeah.

Okay. So I was dreading the day. Well, in high school, and they still do this shit by the way, they would have a thing where like a week before you could go in and buy heart things and then have them sent to people's classrooms. So think about this, you'd be sitting in class and all day, all you'd be thinking is, oh,

I'm not, there's no way I'm gonna get one. But then every class, somebody would come to the door, hold some, you know, little hearts, construction people hearts and like read the names of the girls in the class who were going to get delivered the hearts, which of course were the same girls in every single thing. Always Susie. It's always fucking Susie. And by the way, this is what Valentine's Day still feels like, right? For a lot of people like Susie, we already know Susie won. Susie's dating the quarterback. Okay. Anyway, the point is...

Because she believed that she deserved the quarterback. She believed she could, so she did. Cause she believed she could, so she did. Anyway, yes baby, you're right. Susie just had that something special inside. Which that you're born with or not. Susie has been manifesting since she was two. Maybe my thought and my theory does not work all the way through.

I don't think anything is totally true, totally not. I appreciate your thought and I do think that there's some of that that feels true, but there's a reason why I as a child did not think that I could be a quarterback. Right, and that's because a lot of reasons. But you did believe that you could be a writer. I didn't see.

But you could, you believe that you could be a writer. Yeah. That's because in the mental hospital, they taught me to write down my feelings. And if you think I'm joking, I'm not. That's exactly how I learned I could be a writer. What happened in school? Tell us. Jesus. Yeah, tell us.

Dying to know. So I'm sitting in class just like, pissed off at Susie. Right. This is where it starts. Susie, right? This is where it starts. Susie? Knock on the door, here comes the little person from, you know, student government who's gonna pass out the Susie hearts, but it lo and behold, it is not.

It is the secretary, and she is holding flowers. So this is big time. Big time. Oh, somebody stepped up their game from the construction paper to flowers. So I'm like a god. Here we go. Fucking Susie.

The secretary starts walking towards my place in the classroom. And I'm like, what is happening? What is going on? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I'm like starting to sweat. Flowers are for me. And I can't even explain to you how strange this is. Like this is very strange.

To the point where I'm nervous, because I'm like, oh my God, if I touch that card, it's gonna show the people in the classroom that I actually believe this could be for me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Like that's too vulnerable. Oh my God. Yes.

So I just sit there for a while, and then I open the card, and it says, from your secret admirer. Oh my God. And I'm like, what? I don't know. Like I don't have a clear memory of how long it took me to figure out that my dad had sent

those flowers. But I don't think that he told me right away. I don't really know exactly. I remember spending at least a short amount of time feeling like perhaps I had a scare. Of course. I mean, I would have also deduced that. But here, the reason why I think

that that was the most beautiful, that's why, hello, it's not really about the flowers. It's not about the thing, because those flowers meant everything, and I don't remember what the flowers. It's not about the thing, because those flowers meant everything. And I don't remember what the flowers looked like because somebody had thought about me and been like, oh, she's gonna have a hard day for this reason. And this is the thing that she will need

to change her experience. And the intention that goes behind lots of these flowers, right? Like the equivalent Valentine's Day of that would be like a partner thinking, what is going on in her life right now? What is her emotional state right now? And what is the one thing that would sweep in in a moment of this day and make her feel so seen, so known and so loved that her heart would open a little bit and she would feel like somebody was looking out for her. And that is not what happens

when somebody picks up flowers on the way home. It's like, I'm trying not to get in trouble. Not like I'm trying to make my partner feel seen and known and loved. I love it. I think that that's completely correct and that is so sweet of your dad. I know. And it's the public claiming. Oh yeah. that's completely correct. And that is so sweet of your dad. I know the public claiming

Oh, yeah, that's what it is too because I think as cynical as we can be About it ourselves it doesn't Help if the other person is like I also agree. That's total bullshit. It's not like that helps us it's the idea of like, I am going to do something public that says that even if all of this is ridiculous and made up and silly and wasteful,

you're worth wasting on. And I want you to be publicly celebrated. There's something about that piece of it too. And I think that that's why you like me because I just give zero shits about what people think of me. In terms of what is it called my gestures that I like to make.

Cause I like to be like, Glennon Doyle is my wife. For whatever reason, it's probably my wounds and insecurities, but I love telling people that you're my wife. And I don't know, it's just like this day that I get to like do it publicly without any kind of need for feeling of shame. Hmm. You know? That's sweet.

Okay, so if you are- Before you move on to C. Yeah. I want to know about you and what Valentine's Day actually is like for you. Like what are you expecting? What will happen? What do you wish were different? Talk about you and- We just need the heterosexual experience.

I think that both John and I are not big like holiday people. Like we genuinely like there's this whole like thread going around right now where women are like, when I say I don't give a shit about Valentine's Day, I don't want to be psychoanalyzed about that. I really don't give a shit about Valentine's Day. Don't try to like interpret me trying to be defensive of my deep wound of wanting Valentine's Day.

I just don't, because that's patronizing too. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I think that what I love about Valentine's Day, I just don't. Because that's patronizing too. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I think that what I love about Valentine's Day, like John will often write me a note that says something real. And I really love the kid part of it. We're still at the age where they all bring things to school and give things to each other. I really love that. And they get to like write notes to their whole class, which I incidentally learned was part of Hallmark's strategic plan to make it a competition at schools.

As to how many Valentine's you could get instead of getting one special one from someone to sell more cards, which then I felt a little differently about my excitement about the school classroom. Do you see what I'm saying? I hear what you're saying. Thank you. And I think I'm also correct. No, I know, but you heard that. That is un... That is... Yeah. Go ahead. Which is unfortunate. But I do... Sponsored by Hallmark. We can do hard things. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I think it's a cool time to do something unexpected. I just think unexpected is more interesting.

And so I like to think about somebody who is important to us and our family and who we love, who we maybe don't usually think about, and then doing something for them. I love that. Because it feels like unexpected and something that might actually delight instead of feel obligatory. Yes, unexpected. Yeah, that's what's annoying about it is the expectedness. You're saying feigning surprise about the flowers, even though it's the day that it's supposed to happen. It's the easiest thing to checkbox and then you pretend that it's unexpected. Right. I don't like the pretending. What if we just do it the day before round? Well, that's interesting. You've got to think that these holidays, okay?

So like holy days, that's the concept behind a holiday is it was a holy day, right? Are you serious? I mean, yeah, I think so. Holy days, holy days, holidays, right? I mean, it makes sense. I just have never heard that. So like there has to be something.

I believe that there's something beautiful and true to be celebrated for each one of them. There's a kernel of truth, right? So there's a kernel of truth about Mother's Day, right? Of course, this force that makes the world go round, that is nurturing, that is there's a way we have a friend who told us that our other friend Sarah, this woman had been trying to have a baby and had tried for so long and there was so much grief and so much pain.

And for Mother's Day one year, our other friend sent her this huge bouquet of flowers listing every single mothering energy that this woman had offered to this other person and in the world. It had happened years ago and our friend still talks about it as like the most amazing gesture. And that's because to me it was like that person took the kernel of truth behind that holy day and let it swish around in their heart and their mind enough to have an offering come out that was like, tied to the actual kernel of truth. So beautiful. Right?

Yeah. Not the check the box, not the like version of it that has been morphed with capitalism. If you could remove that part of it, that obligatory, unthinking part of Valentine's Day and sit with the power of what love is and what it's meant in your life and let it swish around and then have some sort of offering to someone that maybe is not the most expected person, then it would feel true and beautiful.

Agreed. Agreed. And if you're also having this, you talking about that bell hooks quote the other day about When she said one of the best guides To how to be self-loving is to give ourselves the love we are often dreaming about receiving from others Yes, can you say it one more time just slowly? Yes One of the best guides to how to be self-loving is to give ourselves the love that we are often dreaming about receiving from others. And maybe that comes into play sometimes about this day

where if you, it's kind of like the birthdays conversation we're having. If you have these dreams or yearnings that there's going to be this offering of love that is what you need to receive and then you don't get it, then it feels like this double let down. But maybe there's a way to think about in some ways for yourself and then in some ways for even your friends or the people that you love, you might be best positioned even maybe more than their partner to know what is the way

that they would dream about receiving that. And like, could you do it for yourself and then one other person? Why does it just always have to be that one person. Yeah. Why can't it be just anybody? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where did Valentine's Day come from? My answer is heaven. There's-

Or hell. Or hell, depending on who you are. The short answer is that it is not clear which of these three Saint Valentine martyrs, Christian martyrs it was named for, but there was like an ancient pagan ritual that was very scandalous and sexy and violent and crazy and that it was replaced very conveniently was at the same time period as current Valentine's Day is.

It was replaced with Saint Valentine's Day in a way to eliminate the pagan rituals that were happening at the time. And so one of the Valentine's dudes that was killed, the soldiers weren't supposed to be getting married because they thought it made them less strong. And so that Valentine was marrying them in secret, letting them get married in secret, and then was incarcerated and killed for it. So that's one of the three that it could have been.

So that's the idea of believing in love and whatever. I don't think we should under emphasize the importance of that Bell Hooks moment you just had. Yeah. Because I think I could get into Valentine's Day if it were something where we figured out what we wish someone else We're gonna do for us and then we just freaking did it for ourselves So when we imagine what all of these other millions of happy couples are doing in their homes

I mean you say it like you're not a happy couple though True. It's the weirdest thing when I hear you talk about this because it's as if you're not one of them I don't know what to say about that. It's true, but we're also speaking for the pod squad and statistically, that's true. I don't really think of things that way. I think of things like widely. I know.

I know that might be, and in there, it might lie the problem. Is it a problem or am I just looking out for anti-Suzis everywhere? Like there's only one Susie in every high school. There's 4,000 not Susies. So I don't think it's weird to think from the perspective of the not Susie. No, I think that, I don't think that it's weird at all,

but in terms of being embodied, the thing that you're trying to work on, it feels like this could be an exercise to work on. Yeah, I hear that. I hear that. I hear that. But just saying, like, if we were to think of what we imagine, we would be getting on Valentine's Day or we should be getting. And then that thing, what is it?

Is it rest? Is it delight? Is it delicious food? Is it words of afferm yours? Delicious food, is it? Words. Words about for me, you know, whatever those things are, it sounds cheesy at first, I think we're resistant to it because it feels like it wouldn't work, or it's in my experience,

there is something beautiful that happens when we just gather up our little vulnerable courage and say, I'm just gonna think about that thing that I really want and find a way to give it to myself. That's good. And just to see how that feels in my body. I desperately need a rest. I'm going to find a time in the middle of the day

on Valentine's Day to take a nap and like just figure out how that feels in my body to identify a need, not wait for it to come to the door. And by the way, for people who have a couple, a partner who's gonna bring them the flowers, you probably have to do that also. Wait, what do you mean? Well, because the check the box gift

is usually not the thing that makes you feel seen. Right. And loved. You're gonna have to do that on top of getting the check the box gift. Right, so I would actually love to not dismiss that and try to see if there, I will think about it and do something for myself, but I would love it if the three of us would do that. And if the pod squad would just take a moment to think about what is the thing

they are most likely to feel seen and loved by when they receive it and to try to give that to themselves and tell us the story of that, right? What would be the name for that? I don't know, just like claiming Valentine's Day as a time when you actually are going to get the love that you need, because that's actually in your control sometimes.

Yeah. I think that that's interesting. And I also think that we can have these conversations with our partners. Totally. Yeah. You could be like, I've been thinking about it and like instead of going to dinner,

I really wanna like take a nap after school and then I was thinking we could watch this movie. You can have those conversations. Okay, so we have something that's about to happen that is like the most amazing thing that maybe has ever happened on this pod. So just hold tight for that. Do either of you before we move on from that,

know what that thing would be, that you would give yourself, that you would hope somebody else would give you because, sister, when you imagine, what could John do, that you would be like so unexpectedly thrilled loved by because it would show that he knew you so well? Like what would that thing be?

I think I'm always just over the moon for some kind of body work situation, massage or acupuncture or something that's just like laid down and let someone do this, planning that into a day, like you have an appointment at one o'clock at this thing, go do it. That for me is always like the height of happiness. I love that. And might I add a level two to that? If you are a partner whose other partner carries most of the mental load of the family,

and you walk in and say, I love you and I want you to feel seen and loved and so I'm sending you to this appointment, then what also has to happen during that time is the other partner, in order to truly make this a love offering, has to have thought through what else needs to happen in that hour or two hours to keep the family flowing, doing the things that the other partner

would be doing during that time. Before and after. Exactly. So if you just let the person go, and then the person is thinking the whole time that when they come back, there's going to be a shit show, nothing's going to be done, the homework's not going to be done, the demeanor's not going to be planned, then that is not a break, right? That pisses me off. Like Mother's Day, right? Great. You send your person

away for two hours, but then they have to double down when they get home. So it's not a gift. Think through the whole day. Think through, and by the way, this is what should be happening every day, right? This is annoying, that it's just Valentine's Day, but it's a good start. So if you're gonna give your partner a gift,

also think through all the other things that that person would be thinking, worrying about carrying mentally for that time and present what will be done during that time where the person's gone. Yeah, so that they can actually check out during the massage or whatever. Will the dishes be, will the laundry continue? Will Johnny get to his birthday party? Will this be, you know, all the 10 things that that person would have done

in that two hours and nail all of them. What would you like? What would you do for yourself? I really like times when our children feel, and then I'm going to the kids, I'm so sorry, but I do like times when our children feel obligated by their Gregorian calendar to and feel obligated by their Gregorian calendar to hang out with me and be extra nice and be extra present and give me stuff. I like that because I know that they love me, but I think it has to be like, they have to be ashamed to not do things.

That makes sense. Cause that's the area where you probably feel like the least funneled through. That's really interesting. So, okay. I like to be appreciated. So like you would prefer Mandatorily like

You'd prefer Valentine's Day from the kids than from your romantic partner. Like that would be your preference. That's interesting. And I get it. Like I totally understand that. What about you, Abby? Yeah, so we don't go out to dinner very often

and it's my favorite thing. And so what I would want is to take myself to like the nicest dinner. Not like just down the street. By yourself? No, ew, no. I would want- Ew, dammit.

I mean, I've done it, but I would want to go to a place that's super curated menu, super weird items, but they all taste good. I just like going out to dinner. Okay, okay, all right, great. But not all the time, just like once a year for Valentine's Day. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, let's do it. That's what I would give myself. Love it, okay, great. But not all the time, just like once a year for Valentine's Day. I'm like, let's do it.

That's what I would give myself. Love it. Okay, great. All right, now. Prepare yourself. Prepare yourself for what's about to happen. Sister, would you like to set this up? I would just like to say that be you a cynic

or a lover like Abby. At the end of the day, we have come to what Glennon has called the kernel of the truthiest truth about this, which is that love exists, and love is the reason the world goes around. And in this community of Podsquatters, we have a vast amount of love for each other and then pockets of beautiful love springing up all the days long. So we have heard from our dear

pod squatter friend Erica who has called in and invited the pod squad to be part of a very special happening today. And you, in your lovey lovey hearts, get to be part of it right now. Do not turn off. This is the thing that you want to be listening to. I'm telling you. Okay, I'm ready. Oh my god. Hi, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda. My name is Erica. My pronouns are she, her. Before I ask my question, I just want to say that I love you all so much. I've listened to dozens and dozens of your podcasts, and my girlfriend, Duju, has listened to hundreds.

In fact, according to her Spotify Rack this year, she's in your top 9% of listeners. You three have helped us immensely navigating our lives as women, as recently outlawed beings from conservative communities, and as people desperate to learn how to love ourselves and the world better. Thank you. So in a surprising turn of events, my question today is actually not for y'all, but for my girlfriend, Juju. But I should probably give a little context first. Lenin and Untamed, you ask, what is the truest, most beautiful story I can imagine for my life. Well, my most beautiful story starts and ends with Juju. I didn't believe and love it for sight until my

eyes arrived on her and I haven't looked away since. From the very start I was heard. From the very start it was the both of us. Both condemned by the communities that raised us but we both learned to accept ourselves anyway. Both of us with our left-righting stories and studying theology and playing all the sports we possibly can. Both of us constantly yearning for a more just world. Dujou, you are the greatest blessing. I love everything about you, from how you belt Casey Musgraves in the car, your contagious love for the underdogs, your incomparable, goofy dance moves. You easily continue to fill out the ever-growing scroll that lists all the things I love about

you. One of my favorites I wrote back in 2021, it reads, I love holding your hand, walking side by side, cutting somewhere together. Do you, I want to go somewhere with you, anywhere, as long as we're together. So finally, my question is, do you, beyond my wildest dreams girl, will you marry me? What? I mean, I'm like- I take it all back!

I love love! I love love! I take it all back now! Beyond my wildest dreams girl. Juju, I want to go somewhere with you and- No. No. No. Beyond my wildest dreams, girl. Juju, I wanna go somewhere with you anywhere. Get the hell outta here, Erica. That was beautiful.

Oh, Juju. Oh my gosh, we have a proposal. Yes, Erica, yes. We do. We do. Okay, that's a very big deal. That was so beautiful. I just can't believe that those two.

I mean, obviously, based on that letter, like how beautiful are those two human beings? And I can't believe that they wanted to do that here. I know. I know. So we wrote to Erica and said, you send us the most beautiful thing? Do you really want to do this? Are you sure?

Yes, that's why I sent it. So we have been plotting with Erica for a while and now it is in Juju's hands. OK, hold on. I just want to like talk about this for a second because Erica calls in and leaves a voicemail. And she's like, hope they get it. Yeah, hope they get the voicemail. And then she hears from us and she's like, they got it. So, Juju's going to be listening to our podcast. Right now, she just did.

Right now, right now. She just did, babe. As you're talking. She just did, babe. Juju has just listened to us. Oh my gosh. She's like, right now, we're like an inception right now. She's listening to us right now as we talk. I know.

Do you think she said yes? I do. Okay, here's what I just want to say about this, is I feel like we are taking the kernel and reclaiming it, because the reason why this is so moving to me is the whole story about feeling condemned in their communities and finding each other and feeling that love thing, which just transcends all the freaking rules and claiming it is like the original Valentine's Day, right?

It's like being told you can't get married, being told you can't, it'll make you weaker, being told all these things, and then being the renegade little saint who's like, we shall. I mean, I feel a little bit like that's what I'm saying around Valentine's Day is like for so long in my life. I remember New Year's kisses. I'd have to go in like bathrooms.

Oh, sweetie. We love you, Juju and Erica. I hope this goes well. Not only like, how do we get them back on this pod? I need to talk to them. They'll call us right back. Obviously, Erica and Juju call us back and tell us everything.

Yeah. Oh my God, I'm dying to know. And either way, love bugs. If you are a cynic or you are a celebrator, or let's say this, I think all of us are celebrators of love. I think what we're cynic love is not the love. It's the commodification of the love. So we can all be joined in the fact that we do believe in love. Just wanted to be real. all be joined in the fact that we do believe in love. Just want it to be real. Yes, just want it to be real.

And you get to have the love you want on Valentine's Day. You get to, you don't have to wait for somebody else to do it. You can imagine up what that person would do or bring or be to you, and you can find one way to be that for yourself. Yeah. We love you, PodSquad. And mostly Erica and Juju.

That's right, that's right. On this day of Valentine's Day, and also all the other days. We'll see you soon, we love you, bye. Bye. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

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with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We can do hard things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. I walked through fire, I came out the other side. I chased desire, I made sure I got what's mine And I continue to believe That I'm the one for me And because I'm mine I walk the line

I walk the line Cause we're adventurers in heartbreak So now, a final destination We're now, we've stopped asking directions And some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring We can do a hard thing.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start. I'm not the problem sometimes things fall apart And I continue to believe the best people are free And it took some time But I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers in heartbreak So map a final destination We've stopped asking directions To places they've never been

And to be loved we need to be normal We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring We can do a hard day This were adventurers and heartbreaks on that We might get lost but we're okay now We've stopped asking directions Some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring

We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things