We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 281. How Amanda Finally Calmed Her Brain & Her Letter from Love with Liz Gilbert

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

In this beautiful episode, we hear Amanda’s incredible breakthrough in quieting her brain, and how she finally heard from Love with the help of Elizabeth Gilbert.   Discover:  The breathtaking and very odd way that Love ultimately showed up for Amanda;   Taylor & Travis’s love lesson for Amanda  How to avoid what Liz Gilbert calls “taking a monkey survey” when making important life decisions; The “big thing” we are all missing & how it makes us dissatisfied with everything else; and  How to get your brain and perfectionism to step back so your greater wisdom can speak.  On Liz: Elizabeth Gilbert is author of the international bestseller, EAT PRAY LOVE, which has been translated into over thirty languages, and sold over 12 million copies worldwide. The book became so popular that Time Magazine named Elizabeth as one of the 100 most influential people in the world. In 2010, Elizabeth published a follow-up to EAT PRAY LOVE called COMMITTED—an instant a #1 New York Times Bestseller, as well as BIG MAGIC: CREATIVE LIVING BEYOND FEAR. She is the author of three novels: STERN MEN, THE SIGNATURE OF ALL THINGS, and CITY OF GIRLS. Elizabeth is the creator of the Onward Book Club, which takes place on her Instagram via a live chat, as a way of spotlighting, studying, and celebrating the work of Black women authors. You can also find her on Substack and subscribe to her newsletter: “Letters From Love with Elizabeth Gilbert.” Subscribe here: https://elizabethgilbert.substack.com/  Don’t miss Abby and Glennon also sharing their Letters from Love on We Can Do Hard Things episodes 268 and 269:   Elizabeth Gilbert On Her Most Important Daily Practice (Abby)  Glennon Shares Her Love Letter with Liz Gilbert  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everybody, welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. If you have not listened to those episodes in which our beloved friend and yours, Elizabeth Gilbert, discusses with us the thing she does every single day which has changed her entire life. It's a spiritual practice that actually people have been doing a long time. It's called two-way prayer. A lot of people recognize that practice. It's basically where you sit down and you write a letter to yourself from love. If you are a person to whom that sounds ridiculous, today's for you.

Okay, on the last episode that we did with Liz, Abby and I read our letters from love, which were pretty intensely transformative experiences for us, would you say, babe? Oh yeah. Big time. And those were episodes two, 68 and 269 for y'all to go back to. Okay, great. And during those episodes, Liz issued Amanda a challenge, which was to write her own

letter, and I'm not sure that any of the four of us thought that would actually happen because, you know, sister is pretty logical, she's a pretty logical human being. It happened. It happened. And sister sent her letter from love to Liz and to me, and we both lost it. Me too. That's right, that's right.

I know that you sometimes think that you includes me, but the people don't. Oh, that's right, you're right. I mean a collective me. I mean lesbian me, which is we. Yes. Includes us. Sorry, I digress.

Let's welcome Liz Gilbert and get into this today. Liz Gilbert is obviously the author of the international bestseller, Eat Pray Love, which has been translated into over 30 languages and sold over 12 million copies worldwide. In 2010, Liz published the follow-up to Eat Pray Love called Committed. She wrote Big Magic,

which changed everybody's creativity. If you're working on your art, go get Big Magic. She's the author of three incredible novels, Stern Men, The Signature of All Things, and City of Girls. She's the creator of the Onward Book Club, which takes place on her Instagram, which is so cool. She does live chats with Black women authors discussing their newest works.

And lately you can find her on Substack where she's creating this incredible online community of beauty and kindness, which is based on her letters. And she sends out a newsletter called Letters from Love with Elizabeth Gilbert, which if this episode speaks to you, you're going to want to go check it out. Also, I just want to say this. I've read Sister's Letter, and if there's anybody out there who relates to Sister in the way that she thinks and the way that she talks, you need to listen to this episode. It is going to blow your fucking mind.

And also, if you relate to me and how your brain and heart works, my sincere condolences. It's interesting. I stand in solidarity. Below your mind is exactly what it's like about getting out of your mind. Oh, that's good. I meant it. Welcome. This is a lot of buildup. Now I'm nervous. I feel like you should have just done no buildup because then it's, it's okay. You've got Liz. She makes everything more magical, Sissy. That's true. That's true. She'll help you.

That's what she does. She's human fairy dust. Okay, so here is the human fairy dust herself, Liz Gilbert. Yeah! Hi, guys. Hi. Look at you. Lorena.

You need again. Amanda. What did you do? What did you do? Yeah. What did you do, Sissy? Thank you for coming back with us, Liz. Are you kidding me? This is my favorite place in the entire world.

I know, it is so fun to go to work and hang out with Liz. It's my favorite. I'm like, this isn't even work. You know what's more fun? The only thing that's more fun than going to work and hang out with Liz is not working and hanging out with Liz. Yeah, going to the cold plunge with Liz. Just hanging out with Liz, just by Liz's self.

This doesn't count as work. This is a joy and love fest. There's nobody on the planet that does a cold plunge as fun as Liz Gilbert. What did she sound like when she does it? Listen to me. She, I'm like, just let out whatever you're feeling. And she just literally,

she takes whatever you say and does it. And just was like, ah, ah, it was awesome. I felt like such a good coach because she was such a good student. I'm very responsive. A lot of words happened. A lot of screaming words and exclamations of various feelings.

And there might have been some cursing. And there might have been some singing. I think it was very loud. I'm sorry for your neighbors because it's in your garage. Yeah, yeah, it's all good. God. Amanda Doyle, can I tell everybody what Amanda did? We are here celebrating something amazing.

Amanda Doyle wrote a letter from love, or rather didn't write one. Love wrote a letter to Amanda Doyle. Yeah. What does everybody have to say about that? You go first, Sissy. I'm amazed by it because I obviously was part of the two conversations that y'all had about Abby's letter from love and Glennon's and I honestly didn't think it was gonna take. I was time to try to get quiet enough to hear from this voice and to just ask it like

every night before I went to bed. I'm like, maybe tonight you could marinate on that. And then we could be ready to hear. And then in the morning, I would be like, any news? Any news you want to report? But I didn't hear anything. And I would try when I would get quiet. And I would, it was like these two competing voices where I would just hear my brain being like,

well, this would make a good letter. This would make a good, and I honestly didn't know that I would ever be able to quiet my desire to sound smart and good enough to actually hear what the alternative version would be. So I really was like, I'm screwed. I'm gonna have to just think about what love would sound like and try to make it sound like that because I'm gonna have to use my brain and not my heart.

And then what was so crazy is, well, first of all, it was due after weeks of asking very graciously and patiently for love to say something and love not saying anything. It was due that week and Alice got sick and was throwing up all the days. And I was like, I can't hear love over the sound of the vomit. I don't know what to do. So I wrote to Liz and said,

I can't hear love over the sound of the vomit. I'm so embarrassed. And she showed up as love in the form of take another week. It's great. So then as soon as I was got better, I sat down one day and miraculously my brain turned off. I don't know, but it just turned off and every time I was tempted to be like, this doesn't sound good. I could just let that go. And I knew it was actually from love because it wasn't something at the end of it. That I was like, this is good.

And therefore I'm giving my stamp to it. And also it was so weird. It just was weird. Like it turned out being a football analogy, which would never ever be something that I'd be like, you know what would make a really compelling letter from love? An elaborate football analogy. That's how you knew it worked.

So that's how I knew. That's how I knew it was not from me because I would never be like, this will really sell. Yeah. Like, this is on brand. And then, and then, when I sent it to you and Margaret and found out, I mean, this is unbelievable to me.

This is that the schedule for when my letter from love was supposed to go up was Super Bowl Sunday? I know. I actually left. Because of the vomiting. Because of the vomiting. Because you got delayed a week and all of a sudden you were the Super Bowl Sunday Letter,

and you didn't even know that, and the whole letter is football analogy. So God's got jokes. I was like, love, you are a rascal and a half. LOLGOD. LOLGOD. So I just felt like honestly, because it was so odd and not something that I would write,

I knew it was correct. And then to have the Super Bowl thing happen, I was like, oh, that's funny. It wasn't a me thing. And that felt like the win. And I don't know if it's gonna relate to people, but it just felt so personally, like it is possible to mine from a place other than my brain and logic and whatever kind of perfectionism, this will make it better thing. And that felt for me, like a very, very big deal. Can I ask you a question? Yes.

So when you, during the few weeks of like, beseeching love? Yes. What did that feel like? Because I bet there's a lot of folks out there that are or have gone through this that they're like, this exercise sucks. They're like, I don't get it.

I don't understand. What did that feel like to you as like the perfectionist or more logic minded person? And also, who do you believe you were talking to? What is your language for this? When you think about it or do you not think about it? So to Abby's question, it felt like a tiny bit panicky because I'm not gonna let down Liz Gilbert and it's such an honor to speak to a ridiculous community.

So I felt a little panic like what happens when I have to write this from my brain and will people know that it wasn't from love and I'll be found out. And then slowly, I think it was a good process though of the asking in the morning and the evening because what I think it clarified after many weeks was this is the barrier because I didn't even know that at the beginning. I just first thought it wasn't going to show up. And then I realized that the problem was my brain was trying to show up to perform. And that my endeavor was going to have to be to let brain know that it was okay.

That it would be okay for brain to not do this one and try to give somebody else a chance. So I think that was actually helpful. So I think if you're struggling a lot, maybe giving yourself the time to say like, what is showing up for you that is drowning out the love voice for me might be brain. Maybe it's fear, maybe it's anxiety, maybe it's shame because you're afraid of what you're gonna say, might reveal something about you. I don't know

what it is, but for me it was helpful to be like, oh, I know what the barrier is. And then just to have enough time to be like, it's okay. And I told myself, brain, if you don't do this and whatever comes out is not something that you feel comfortable with, we can throw it away. But just give it a shot. You don't have to do anything with this, but I would like to know if this is possible.

Can I make an observation? Yes. So many things that this brings up, and I'm so happy that you did this, and I feel so honored that I got to see you do it and watch it find you. It sounds to me from the way you told the story that you didn't shut your brain down

and then love came in. It sounds like love shut your brain down and came in because if you're like me and I know you are, I can't shut my brain down. I've been trying to do that my entire life. Anybody who read Eat Pray Love Knows What A Difficult Time I Had Meditating, do that my entire life. Anybody who read Eat, Pray, Love, knows what a difficult time I had meditating. I can't do it. I don't know where the pull plug switches on that thing. And what I'm hearing from what you were sharing is that your experience was like those weeks where you were talking to love to me

sound like how I was taught to pray, which is a lot of my voice. Right? Like that's how I was taught to pray. It's like talk to divinity, talk to the mystery, talk to God. You know, and I hear enough of my voice all day. Like all I hear is my voice in my head and I can't quiet it and I can't still it and I can't make it stop and it's like driving between early crazy. I can't with it. It thinks it's the highest intelligence in the universe. It's totally frightened of everything. It needs to control and understand everything.

It can control and understand nothing. That doesn't stop it from trying to, right? So those nights and mornings with you saying, okay, well, and even offering suggestions to love, like here's what you might wanna say to me. When I finally sit down and do the exercise, what I also noticed is you weren't doing the exercise, you were talking about it and thinking about it

and analyzing it and preparing for it. But the second you sat down and actually did it, which is you sat down and you wrote the words, dear love, what would you have me know today? Something bigger than your brain came in and pulled the plug. And you became a channel, an open channel for something that came through you that was not familiar to you because you didn't script it and you didn't plan it and you didn't analyze it. It just, it was there. And I feel like one thing that I think is so amazing about this process and I've been

doing it for so many years and it never stops amazing me. I always sit down thinking I know what it's going to say. My brain's always trying to be five steps ahead of everything. So I sit down and I'm already like, I basically know what I'm going to be told today and I'm never not surprised by what comes through. But for that magic to happen, I have to ask the magic question. I have to actually write down the magic question. What would you have me know? And that's like the abracadabra that seems to open it up. And then I don't have to shut my brain down, it does.

To take your football analogy, Amanda, because I know how much you love football analogies, just doesn't end right around my brain. And so watching and hearing about that, I'm like, wow, you got to experience the mysticism of this. The mysticism of this, meaning you're stepping into a field beyond what your rational brain can understand. And it blows my mind, but it's supposed to blow our minds, I think, because our minds have gone as far as they can. Yes. That's right. That's what we said in the introduction before you got here. Abby goes, this letter's going to blow your mind. And I was like, oh my god, that's exactly what this process is for, like beyond mind. It's good. Do we want to read it? Is that where we are? No,

we're going to rap for it now. Well, G, you asked like what I think it is. And I didn't know until I sat down, but it did feel, it felt like it was of me, but a real or sturdier, maybe unaccessed part of me. Cool. Like maybe an unsced part of me. Cool. Like maybe an unscared part of me is what it felt like. So like the self IFS language? I was thinking that like the IFS self stuff.

It felt like, oh, is that what that is? Some people call it God. IFS calls it the capital S self, spirit, whatever, but it was something inside of you that was untapped or unheard from before for you. Yes, and maybe it's all of those things, right? Because if God is in you, then if it's coming from you as your highest self, that is the same thing as God. Ooh, you sound like Liz Gilbert right now. Shit, this works fast. Glennon and I just made the same gesture. It was a little bit of like on the nose, bingo, got it. Like, why would those be different things? Right.

Why would going back to that idea that God dwells within you as you, that's something that I often hear people say about this. They're like, it's me, but not me. It's the closest and most familiar intimacy. It's in my voice, but it also isn't me, but it also is. Yeah. It's like it knows you well enough to know every single thing.

And so it is part of you. So here's the distinction I'm trying to make. And it's because probably our false senses of what God is. But it wasn't like, I am outside of you, handing down lessons that you can integrate. It was like, I am integrated from you, and therefore I know everything there is to know The course of true love doesn't always run smooth

She got really like upset and then I got super upset and we were like screaming at each other I'm dr. Laurie Santers and in a special Valentine's Day season of my podcast, The Happiness Lab, we'll explore the science of making our intimate relationships more harmonious. This is like the worst possible way to spend a relaxing vacation. Journalist Charles Duhigg will help us all become super communicators. Everyone knows that experience, right, when you've had a great conversation and you just feel like you're on cloud nine afterwards And we'll hear from husband and wife relationship experts the Gottmans. I turned the phone off. You didn't turn it off

On why we should argue better. I did. Yeah Listen to the happiness lab wherever you get your podcasts I have a question do you have other times in your life? Can you recall any other times in your life where love showed up for you? Where this entity, this being, this part of you that you can remember? That's a really good question. Isn't it? I feel like it's weird, the two things that come to my mind, but when I've had full clarity about what I want to do.

It feels like that has been moments because I'm not doing the, well, on the pro side, it's this and on the con side, it's this. And so let's net out where we belong. It's like, I can't explain why, but that thing. That's so interesting. I want that thing. I wanna do that thing. That feels like another level of self that isn't asking all the participants what they think.

Liz, for background on that, sister and I have a thing where I will ask her like, OK, but what do you want? And it is like I've asked her quantum visit, maybe I have, but like it is really surprising to me. It is the smartest person I know. And when you ask her what she wants, truly about work, about vision, about life, about whatever, there is no answer.

And it's almost like you get annoyed at me for asking that question. Would you agree? I mean, how do you answer impossible questions like that? That's ridiculous. When Abby asked me the question, I can think of two times in my life that I would say, I want. What are they? After my first year of college, when I knew that I wanted to spend the summer in Ireland, I just wanted to go. I just knew that's where, and I just needed to be there. Like it was like humming in my body when I knew I wanted to go work for IJM in India, Rwanda ended up being Rwanda, which didn't make sense.

Okay, wonderful. There's an expression that I share with some recovery fellows of mine when we're spinning and trying to, you know, they say in the rooms, figuring things out is not a tool of recovery. You know, like, it's, I've spent my life trying to figure things out, right? And just getting myself wrapped around the axle, just so spun out. And one of the things I've tend to do is ask everybody. I do a lot of research, like I do all the research

that I can so I can become an expert on the question. And then I ask everybody, which seems like, not the worst thing, like why would you not go gather information and gather data and gather opinions? But one of my first sponsors in 12 step called that taking a monkey survey, which means you've got monkey mind. And then you go out into a tree filled with other monkeys and you ask all the other monkeys what those monkeys think

that you should do. And that's called taking a monkey survey. And it is the farthest thing from wisdom that you could possibly gather. And like we catch each other and we're like, are you taking a monkey survey? Like are you calling me because you're trying to gather 75 different voices around you to solve this thing? And one of the things that you can also do, here's a little bonus trick with this exercise

is that you can ask love, what would you have me do? You don't just have to ask, what would you have me know? And that is very interesting. What I heard and when you were talking about, especially when you said the times in your life where you knew, where you had like a full body, yes, going to Ireland for no apparent sensible rational reason and the going to Rwanda also, when you use the term make no sense, right? These are not things that your intellect came up with. This is not something the monkey survey

would have told you to do. You could have taken a monkey survey from now till times get better and nobody would have been like go to Rwanda. But something was guiding you and you had the humility to allow it to. And I think that this practice requires a tremendous humility in setting just for a minute. And I love that you reassured your brain by saying, look, if anything comes up in this letter that's like really squirrely or wonky or makes us feel weird or look bad, we can

throw it in the garbage. You gave your brain permission to stand down and to allow guidance from some other place. I think there's an ego collapse that has to happen here, the famous ego collapse at depth that has to happen here, even if it's just for five minutes to be able to allow something else to speak that doesn't make sense to you or the other monkeys, but that somehow your body knows is true with a capital T. Yeah, it's like the bad news is nobody outside you knows what you were meant for, nobody.

But the good news is that there's something within you that we'll always know. And we ask it last, it's like you call your wisest friend last, because they're going to give you the real deal. Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It reminds me a lot of, because even going through this process myself,

I never asked myself that question. When has love shown up for me? And it's happened so often, but the thing that is coming top of mine right now is every single time I would play soccer, there was a surrendering to something wiser figure. And I've been trying to figure this out, and we've been talking to Glennon about this a lot. And I actually think that this really might be one of the reasons

why people like watching sports so much is because top athletes, especially the ones we all know, or these big moments, these big plays, I am convinced it has absolutely nothing to do with my body. especially the ones we all know, or these big moments, these big plays, I am convinced it has absolutely nothing to do with my body specifically, but there is some sort of energy, some sort of different field that some of the best athletes you know, tap into because they have all the circumstances sorted. They know the plays, they know what they're doing, they practice, they've done all the things.

Why then are some people more capable of achieving higher levels of success in their craft than others? And I believe it's this, I believe that there is a different level that some athletes are able to listen to, let in or surrender to however you want to describe it. And that is why, like the goal against Brazil

in 2011 that I scored, that never happens unless something else takes over. And I think that that's what love is. It steps in when we let it, when we can get humble to it. Liz, I thought that that was really, really important what you said, like allowing your being to say, something else come and do this.

I believe that something else greater is out there. Or in there. Or in there. Yeah, it's good. I love that, Abby. And I've experienced that writing at times too. Like my book, The Signature of All Things, I don't really have any memory of writing it. I have an enormous memory of researching it, as I'm sure you have memory of

practicing, but I don't have any memory of executing it. I wasn't there. But lest anybody out there starts thinking that all of this is pointing toward greatness, but many different kinds of greatness. And many, many times I've been doing this practice for 25 years. When I have asked love, what it would have me know, or what it would have me do, it has said, go get a glass of water, take off your bra, lay down and stop. That's enough for today. Yeah. You know, like because that was actually the only thing that it could offer me, because I was so burned.

It's good. And I was like burned, I was so ravaged and burned to the ground that the best accomplishment I could have for that day was to have a glass of water and to lay down. And a lot of times love is like, we'll talk more about this tomorrow. Yeah.

We'll talk more about this tomorrow. And then sometimes it gives me instructions that I'm like, a couple of years ago, I was like, what do I do? And it was like, and it said, you're gonna buy a plane ticket to this city and you're going to go there this week and you're going to call this person,

and you're going to ask if you can come and see them and make amends. I was like, not this week, not that person. Love was like, yeah, let's get that plane ticket. Tomorrow's good. I did it. I did it, and I didn't even contact that person before I flew to that city. Cause I was like, I'm really hoping that when I get there,

she's not there. That she's not there cause I know she travels a lot. So I'm gonna do my half and I'm gonna go to the city and then I'll go call her that morning, you know, because she's really busy and she won't be there. And I called her that morning and she was home sick and she was like, I would love to see you. And I went and knocked on her door and she came to the door and we were crying in each

other's arms two minutes later. And if you had told me a week earlier that me and that person would ever speak to each other again, I would have told you you were smoking roofing tar. And so sometimes that's what it tells you to do. So I encourage you to try it. And I've just gotten to the point now where I just do what it says. Even if it doesn't make any sense, Especially if it doesn't make any sense. Yeah.

Now look, obviously if it tells you to do something psychotic and violent, you know, like somebody wrote to me the other day and said like, I feel like I'm going a little crazy because I hear love talking to me, but like, am I just losing my mind? And it's like, well, is it telling you to do something that's destructive, violent, or harmful to yourself or any other human being? If so, go see a medical professional, you know, and turn yourself in. But I've never done this exercise with anybody

where it tells them to do anything that's harmful to themselves or to others. It has usually very good guidance. Yeah, and like sister said in the last episode we did, it's like, we're all listening to voices. Let us not pretend that this is a crazy thing to ask yourself for your best self or love to step forward.

All we do all day is listen to voices in our head and then do one of the things that it says. Like what else do you think we're making decisions by, right? This is just asking for a particular voice to step forward, which we might be able to trust the most. And it's like a teacher where it's like all the same people are always raising their hands. And it's like, put your hands down. We're going to ask that one to start.

And I would say about the greatness thing, which is, I believe that, I think it's like the intense vulnerability of trying as hard as you can, nobody sees that. And like, when you try as hard as you can, when you put your entire heart on the line and your body and everything, love is like, okay, I see you. I will come.

Yeah. But also, for me, I have noticed lately that what love is always telling me the opposite of greatness. Like what we think of is great. It's like love wants me to not have to do the things. Oh, that's so cute. Like love wants me to like not feel like

I have to write that book or do that speech or be in that thing or be amazing or be whatever. Like that's the opposite. Remember that day when love was like, you're going to learn how to make chocolate chip cookies. Yeah, that was a good day. I made my first batch of chocolate chip cookies for my son. One week, one week ago, and he got his first batch of chocolate chip cookies.

Her 18 year old daughter came over to teach Glennon how to make chocolate chip cookies. Talk about love. I know. How did it feel to make those, Glennon? Well, Liz, I woke up with so much love for my kid because he had just left and gone back to college. And so I painted him a painting,

which was a sunset and us walking. And I had to say, this is a sunset and us walking because it didn't look like that. Okay. So there was a note accompanying the painting. Did he do the elementary school teacher thing? Tell me about this picture. Oh, it looks like you tried so hard. Yeah. And then I baked him cookies and then I went to the post office and I packaged it all up and they said that's gonna be like $100 to send it.

So I was like, just send it two weeks. Like they won't be good. This is really not about him. The painting's unlookable. The cookies are inedible. Not sure. But look at my love. Very yummy.

The point is... Unlookable. It's a very important word that we need in our vocabulary. But the point is that I just got to do those little things for my boy and I had such a wonderful day and I didn't do something else. What I would say is that love is always telling me to do the little things that I wanna do,

not the like big showy things. That's good. Do we want to hear from Sissy? Yeah. I do. I do. Okay. All right. Well, you're not going to hear from me because I wouldn't have written this.

Okay. I'm just joking. I love you. I'm so excited. Oh, love doesn't care. Love doesn't mean my love and validation. Okay. Dear Honey Bunny, you have never asked to hear from me, so you are afraid I will have nothing to say. For weeks now, before you go to bed, when you wake up, you've been asking love to show up, but deep down, you don't believe I will have anything to offer. You keep thinking that brain will be the one you will have to rely on for anything worth reporting. You're finally asking love to come on the field and play,

to have faith in myself as a walk-ons. But even while you say it, you're eyeing your star player on the bench and you know it's a matter of minutes before I fail to deliver and you pull brain in the game to get the job done. Why is Brain the star? Is it because she's run so many plays, she's scored so many times, she's brought home so many championships? Is it because your walls are lined with her glories, your security exists,

because she has consistently converted in the clutch? Is it because people look at the varsity letter brain has delivered and call you good? I understand why you put brain in the game. I understand why you trust her with every important play. I love her too. But if I'm never in the game, I can never make a play. I would though. My plays would be so glorious glorious you would call this game by an entirely new name.

You might just watch me play once and retire altogether. You'd go and do a completely new thing because you'd have finally seen the glory you've been incessantly striving for. And it would be so effortless and so beautiful that you would know there is no more for you to do. Your work would be done and you could rest. I have so much to say to you.

Please ask Brain to go back in the locker room for a well-deserved break so you and I can play without you constantly looking back, second guessing your lineup. What I want to say to you is that it could have been easier than all of this. You have been struggling so hard, so gallantly, to win for so long, but very tragically

and very miraculously, what I need to tell you is that no one has been keeping score other than you. Darling one, there is no score other than the one you have been tallying in your head. What if I told you that the reason we meet on this field together is just to be on this field together? I know this is blowing your mind. I know you can't possibly believe what I am saying to you, but what if you could indulge me for just a moment

and consider this possibility? We come to this field to play, to come to this field to play. How would you play if you knew that the playing was the point? How would you play if playing wasn't a means to winning, but the end in itself? Would silliness and satisfiability and peace and risk and adventure and softness get to play the whole game? risk and adventure and softness get to play the whole game? Instead of just the last 60 seconds when you're sure brain and grit and judgment

and long suffering have already locked down the win, would even waste of time who's been suspended every season get to suit up? You love brain. And so do I. She loves you as much as I do. She wants to play well for you. But have you noticed how tired she is? Have you noticed how lonely she is with no one else to play with? But there's more love. I feel like you are so insistent to win. You may be confused who you are playing with, with who you are playing against.

And darling, what I need you to know is you are not playing against anyone. There is only playing with or not playing with. There is no playing against. But you get confused. This happens with your husband. You look at him sometimes with eyes that say you think he's not playing with you, but against you. You see his plays and get mad. You want him to push as hard as you are. You're mad he didn't train like you did, that he can't remember the play you've run a thousand times. Now he's sitting on the bench next to satisfiability,

and they are staring blankly, wondering if you will ever let them on the field at the same time, if you will ever be satisfied with him or anything else. Do you know they've both wondered why they keep coming out for this team? I understand that to you, they seem nuts. Why aren't they playing to win? But please understand that to them, you seem nuts, because you are the only one keeping score.

And you are keeping score. Very meticulously. I know you don't know how to stop keeping score, very meticulously. I know you don't know how to stop keeping score, how to refrain from compulsively tallying the wrongs and slights and disappointments against you and counting, at least someone is counting how hard you are trying. But have you noticed how boring, exhausting

and annoying the scorekeeping has become for you? I wonder what you would start seeing if you could watch the whole game instead of having your head buried in the scorebook. Have you noticed that every challenging play your kids run is, to you, a game of survival? You play to exhaustion and injury for them so that everything will be okay. But what if I told you that everything is already okay? Now, later, and forever. That there is no elimination game. That the whole point is for the kids to stay on the field and keep playing. And that maybe they are more likely to keep playing and let all of their players join the team if they know that losing isn't possible. But baby doll, I know this is deeper than that.

I know how crucial your pretend score is to you. It's how you know you've tried your best. Your pretend score is to you. It's how you know you've tried your best. It's how you know you've done enough. How you know you are worthy. That without the score, you are lost because then there's no way you'd ever be able to look at yourself and say, I've done enough to make myself worthy of this life.

I've done enough to love, provide for, and protect my people. My people are safe enough. The fiction of the score is as vital as breath to you, because it is as close as you will ever feel to safety, as close as you will ever feel to rest, as close as you will ever feel to rest, as close as you will ever feel to worthy. But Amanda, I am that love. You think I have nothing to say that I have no place up my sleeve, but look wider. I am the entire reason you show up on this field.

I am the commissioner, the show up on this field. I am the commissioner. The stadium is named after me. It is me in you that has you showing up so unrelentingly on that field, strategizing, training, recruiting, and sacrificing. It is the love in you that has you so hell-bent to win. Without me, you would not-bent to win. Without me, you would not even be playing this game.

And when you tally up your made-up score, I am what you think you are winning. I am the reward you are not resting for. I am the safety you are desperately striving for. I am what you are trying to be worthy of. But I am already here. There is no way to win me. There is no way to lose me. You already have me.

All I want is to watch you play. I know this is to watch you play. I know this is hard for you to imagine, so I'm going to paint you a picture. You know how Taylor looks down at Travis on the field and it's all bright red lips in a glory of unabashed joy and pride and revelry? That's me watching you play. I've never been so proud of anyone, ever.

And that will be true, even if you decide to keep fighting against an imaginary adversary, even if you keep only playing brain, even if you burden yourself with the stress of a made up score forever. And that will be true, if you decide to throw all of that away and start the underdog, even if every pass gets intercepted because you are too distracted by my awe for you.

Too busy beating me bracelets. When people see this love we share, they will look at us with disgust and disbelief and say, that's too good to be true. And you will throw heart hands up at my box and we will wink together and say, yes, that's the point. We can't lose me in you. Love.

Oh my God. Straight out the gate first time. Straight out the gate. That's what shows up. Wow. Amanda. My goodness. Glenan, what's happening to you listening to that from your sister? I feel like it would be too good to be true

in the truest way if sister and I got to like play together. I don't think we ever have. Really? Not even when we were little. I don't think we ever have. Really? Not even when we were little. I don't think. I mean, we've done life together. We've survived together.

We've achieved together. We've loved each other, but really I just think that that would be so wonderful. I don't know what it looks like or what it is, but. Maybe your loves have not played together. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

You guys play together a lot. Your brains play together a ton. Yeah. Your starters. So beautiful. I also had the thought during this that this is the most enneagram three letter from love that ever existed. Like every enneagram three letter from love that ever existed.

Like every Enneagram should have their own letters from love. You know? I just imagine all the Pod Squatters that are all three is just right now in puddles on the floor. Just like, what did you think of Liz when you, I know you texted me right away. First of all, I met yesterday at this event in Richmond, somebody who is a pod squatter and also is on my letters from love sub stack and had found the sub

stack through the podcast and unprovoked. She said, Amanda's my favorite because she is me. And everything, her brain and my brain are the same brain. This, hi, Caitlin, by the way, because I know you're listening to this. Hi, Caitlin. She also said that she's been following the letters from love. She's like, I've been following it,

I'm beginning so much out of it. I haven't written one yet, but I've been following it. I've been so much out of it. Caitlin, I see you? It's like, I'm going to circle this thing till I trust it. I'm going to circle this thing. I'm going to find out some more information. I'm going to do some more research. Great. Circle it. I was like, sit, pull aside as long as you want. I was like, just come and hang out with us. You don't have to play, you know? And then I said, I've got a surprise

for you. Guess who's writing a letter this week? And she was like, oh my god, she did it. So you're so right, Clinton, that all the Enneagram threes out there are going to feel this. I was thinking about winning, and I was thinking about satisfaction, and I was thinking about safety. And those are the concepts that I felt like I heard in that letter that the brain is obsessed with. It's obsessed with winning, which is a kind of controlling, right? Which leads to a kind of security. It's obsessed with security, right? Like, how do I get security? How do I get security for me? How do I get security for the people around me? And I'm just thinking about something that the teacher Ram Dass said once, where he said, when you embark on

a sincere spiritual journey, there is going to come a moment where something is going to have to matter to you more than safety. Something is going to have to take precedence over security. And I think that's actually the next level of evolution of the human brain that we've been working on for a few thousand years now on this latest software download of our brains, because the earliest version of our brains is nothing but a search for security.

It's nothing but like, danger is around every corner, every shadow, every flicker, every sound is danger. And we've got these hyped up nervous systems. And then we have this brand new, beautiful frontal cortex that takes all of that intelligence, feels all of that danger, and tries to solve the danger by using intelligence,

which doesn't work. Because ultimately, I'm not sure that this planet is meant to be safe. I'm not sure that this experience of a soul in a human body, it doesn't look like it is because I don't know anybody who has sailed through life in a human incarnation. I've been like, that was easy. That was super easy and not at all painful and there was no suffering involved and it was just a breeze.

It doesn't appear to be the contract, you know, that security is promised. So maybe we've been killing ourselves trying to find the wrong thing. And maybe the age of trying to find security is over and the age of something else is being introduced here. Yes. To be here, like to actually be here in all of the danger and to play just for the sake of the game.

I also was thinking about satisfaction and how I wrote this to you after you sent me the video of you reading this. You had a line in the video where you introduced talking about this on the sub stack you talked about. What was the word you used? Unsatisfiable. You had a verb.

Unsatisfiable. To describe yourself. Unsatisfiable. You had a very good attitude to describe yourself. Unsatisfiable. Satisfiability, I think. Unsatisfiability. That you lived in a state of unsatisfiability, right? And I wrote you back and I was like, you can't have as many marriages as I've had and be somebody who's satisfied, obviously. Like you can't live the life that I've lived.

Nothing about the blueprint of my life looks like this is a person who is easily satisfied, right? It's like, no, this is also not good enough. And this is also not, and you are also not good enough. And living in this place isn't good enough. I moved like almost 20 times in 20 years. It's like, nope, this doesn't feel comfortable. This doesn't satisfy like it's impossible for me to find satisfaction.

And it reminded me of the adage that I've heard that to search for God like a man with his head on fire, searches for water, right? I've been searching for something that will feel satisfying. What is gonna do it? Meaning what is going to calm me down, make me feel full, make me feel safe,

make me feel held, make me feel held, make me feel seen, make me feel known, who's gonna do it, what's gonna do it. And the only thing that has ever done it is this practice consistently. And the other reason that it keeps me satisfied is because it keeps me guessing because I never know what it's gonna say. Like we can't settle into a routine

because I can't predict it, which is fantastic and humbling for my brain, which thinks that it's smarter than everything and that it always knows what's coming. It doesn't always know what's coming and it's not smarter than everything. And there's something enormously satisfying about watching the peace that settled on you.

I watched it twice now because I also watched you record a video of you reading the letter, but watching peace just settle into you until at the end, you were just this like warm, satisfied, safe person, and the world didn't have to change at all for that to happen. Nothing external had to change.

That's it. That's it. That's it. That is it. How wild is that? That it's like, it was just this then. It was all internal then. And your line about, I have to read it because I've been thinking about it

since you wrote it to me, where you said that when you're studying in the ashram, they used to say to look for God like a man with their head on fire looks for water. Because until you find that true source of love, nothing will satisfy you. And then once you do find it, nothing will ever be dissatisfying again. do find it, nothing will ever be dissatisfying again. And that is it, right? It is the big thing. The big thing is missing.

And when the big thing is missing, of course, everything around you that fails to fill the role of the big thing is going to seem to you to be not good enough because precisely it is not good enough. Exactly. You're not wrong. But then when you have the big thing, you are correct.

Nothing is good enough. Your marriage isn't good enough, your kids aren't good enough, you're not good enough. Your job isn't good enough. Your house isn't good enough. Your family isn't good enough. Nothing is good enough because Your job isn't good enough. Your house isn't good enough. Your family's good enough. Your town. Nothing is good enough because you are trying to make it

as good as the big thing. Because the big thing is missing. But then when the big thing isn't missing, guess what you just need? A good self and a good house and a good marriage. You don't need a big thing level good enough Good self and a good house and a good marriage. You don't need a big thing level good enough because that is already sorted. Oh my God.

It makes so much sense. Suddenly everything else is fine. Exactly. Everything was meant to be fine. Nothing was meant to be the big thing level good. And so is success what you've been trying to make God too? Because the image that sticks with me this time, what I've read it, I've probably read it six times,

but is the, just you guys can tell me why this makes sense, but the visual of you and me on the same team, and then we just keep getting interceptions. We just keep fucking it up. And no one's cheering. They're like, they suck. Get off the field. And then we're like, okay.

And then we sit on the bench and we are giggling and laughing so hard because we keep dropping the ball and it's hilarious. Yes. That is the vision that I have that I think would be amazing. Because we've got so many passes and it's not God. It's not God. It's not God.

So many touchdowns. So many. And then it's even funnier because everyone thinks we're losing and jokes on them because look how fun this is. Exactly. Oh. And then it just gets interesting, right? Which I think is the opposite of anxiety.

I think the opposite of anxiety. I think when all the wars are over, when all the internal fires have been put out because the big thing has been found and you're just resting in the big thing and you're like, oh, I can't because the big thing has been found. And you're just resting in the big thing and you're like, oh, I can't lose the big thing. The big thing is in me, there's nothing I can do to ever be separated from it. Now this is a really interesting world.

Now I'm kind of glad to be here. Now I'm super curious. I've just been doing this thing lately where I've been thinking about what would it look like if security wasn't the most important thing in my life? What would it look like if I was like, willing to die, but not in the grandiose, martyri way that we were all taught was noble, not willing to die for a cause, but willing to die,

because of my curiosity and because it's just interesting to be here. And I've been practicing this. I'm like, what would it be like? What would it be like to not have staying safe be as important as just knowing that this game might end at any moment? I don't even know what the rules are. This is so interesting.

It's so interesting being here. I have no idea what's going to happen next. What would this look like if it was just really easy? And the reason that it's easy is because it doesn't matter very much whether I libertize. It's so funny! It's so funny! We spend our whole lives trying not to die

and it doesn't even matter if we die. It's hilarious. I actually thought, oh wait, it's always been this sort of huge anxiety for me. It's such a weird, hard thing to be a human incarnated because you know you're going to die, and it's so heavy. What if they let you know that so that you wouldn't have to worry about it? Yeah. Oh, don't worry.

Oh, listen, we're going to give away the ending. The ending is you die. Right. At some point. So now that you know that, you can just have a really interesting time here in this experience and see what happens next. It's so true because they're trying to be like the worst case scenario was that you'd be just hyper focused on trying to avoid dying your whole life and what a joke of a waste that would be.

So we're just letting you know that will happen. So you don't have to spend your whole time avoiding it. There is no avoiding it. And we're like, great, gotcha, message received. We will now every day try not to die. Yeah. And make sure that nobody we love or cares about dies. Which is the cause of all war, ironically.

Like it's so wild. And I think that's what Ram Dass meant when he said, at some point, what if something becomes more important than your security or the security of those you love? And what if that is love, curiosity, humility, and presence? We're gonna stop there. Yeah. Liz Gilbert, stop there. Yeah.

Liz Gilbert, thank you. Just love ya. Thank you. Love you so much. I love you guys. Thanks for playing along. It's so good. Let's keep dropping passes.

I'm truly grateful because this opened up something for me and 100% would never have done it for anyone else on that plane. That's right. That's right. Liz and Margaret. Liz and Margaret.

Liz and the ones you don't want to let down. After our first episode, we've gotten so many letters from love from our pod squad. It's so beautiful. Hundreds and hundreds of people who have sent us and voicemailed us. It's been really something. So we're so grateful to you. And y'all go to Liz's sub-stack. Yeah. We'll leave all the information in the, wherever we leave things.

In the show notes, it'll be there. And then you can make sure you cross post your letters there too, so everyone else can read them because they're so beautiful. We've loved reading them. Yeah. Bye, Pad Squad. Bye, Pad Squad. See you next time. We can do easy things.

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