We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 38. HOW TO SAY NO with Simone Biles and Laurie Hernandez

Episode Date: October 26, 2021

HOW TO SAY NO with Simone Biles and Laurie Hernandez  In this very special conversation, three GOATs and Glennon discuss: 1. What we can learn from Simone’s revolutionary decision at the Tokyo Olympics to choose her physical and mental health over the world’s expectations of her.  2. The tiny decisions that helped Laurie practice trusting herself again after surviving a toxic coach. 3. Why Simone, Laurie, and Abby believe their talent is both a blessing and a curse.  4. The places and times Simone and Laurie create where they have nothing to prove—to remind themselves they are human beings, not performance machines.  5. How Simone and Laurie are a big part of one of Abby and Glennon’s favorite family stories. About Simone:  Simone Biles, one of the greatest gymnasts of all-time, is the first woman to capture five All-Around World Championship titles. She is the most decorated gymnast in World Championships history—male or female—with 25 medals overall (19 gold), and is a seven-time Olympic medalist (4 gold). A three-time Laureus World Sportswoman of the Year, she earned the rare distinction of having four skills named in her honor—called The Biles.  Simone’s autobiography Courage to Soar is a New York Times bestseller.   Simone advocates for change and supports initiatives that provide education and assistance for children and young adults associated with adoption and childcare. Instagram: @simonebiles Twitter: @Simone_Biles About Laurie:  Laurie Hernandez is a second generation American, as her grandparents are from Puerto Rico, making her the first U.S. born Latina to make the U.S. team since 1984. Laurie is an Olympic medalist, winning both Gold and Silver medals at the 2016 Rio Olympic Games. Her book I Got This: To Gold and Beyond and her children’s book She’s Got This are both New York Times bestsellers. Laurie is a fierce advocate for the importance of mental health, and travels the country speaking to the next generation about following their dreams.  Instagram: @lauriehernandez Twitter: @LaurieHernandez About The GOLD OVER AMERICA TOUR (GOAT): Simone and Laurie—and an all-star team of gymnasts—are on the road this Fall for the 35-city Gold Over America Tour, showcasing their fierce talent and athletic brilliance in ways we’ve never seen before… their way! The show emerges from their personal values of empowerment, friendship, positive body image, mental health awareness, and self-confidence. Together, they are a united force proudly representing the sport of women’s gymnastics and inspiring audiences across the nation. More information: https://www.goldoveramericatour.com/goat

And because I'm a... Okay, everybody, welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. It's happening. I just had to remind myself that I actually do not have to pee. That's just nervousness happening, Glellan. We have today Lori Hernandez and Simone Biles. Oh my God! Okay, so we are calling this show, three goats and also Glellan.

Four goats. Four goats. Okay. So, I mean, joining us today are two of the world's heroes and two of Abby and I's personal heroes. It's true. Lori Hernandez and Simone Biles. Lori Hernandez is a second generation American as her grandparents are from Puerto Rico,

making her the first U.S. born Latina to make the U.S. team since 1984. Lori is an Olympic gymnast winning both gold and silver medals at the two. 2016 Rio Olympic Games. Her book, I Got This to Gold and Beyond, and her children's book, she's got this, are both New York Times bestsellers. Lorry is a fierce advocate for the importance of mental health and travels the country speaking to the next generation about following their dreams because, of course, she does. We love you, Lori, so much. And I have the great pleasure and honor to introduce Simone Biles. One of the greatest gymnasts of all time and is the first woman to capture five, count them, five all around world championship titles.

She is the most decorated gymnast in world championship history, male or female. By the way, she's got 25 medals overall and 19 of them are gold. Okay. And is a seven-time Olympic medalist with four gold medals. That's like a lot more than you. Oh. Yeah, that's right. Okay.

Let me continue. She earned the rare distinction of having four skills named in her honor called the Biles. That's so cool. And then Simone's autobiography, Courage to Soar is a New York Times bestseller. Simone advocates for change and supports initiatives that provide education and assistance for children and young adults associated with adoption and child care. And so these two women, Simone and Lori and an all-star team of gymnasts are on the road this fall for the 35 city Gold Over America Tour, showcasing their fierce talent and athletic

brilliance in ways you've never seen before, their own way. Love this. The show emerges from their personal values of empowerment, friendship, positive body image, mental health awareness and self-confidence. So before we get started and actually, you know, let Simone and Lori speak, I am going to tell a little story that you two probably don't even know. No, they don't know. They don't remember.

But you two are the integral part of one of our favorite family stories. So here's the story, all right? When Abby was still trying to impress our children, she invited us all to go to the Espies with her. Okay, so for our listeners who are listening, the Espies are like the Oscars for Sporty Spices. Okay. They give each other awards. They do all the things. Our children did not want to come until they found out that Simone Biles and Lori Hernandez might be going.

That's right. Then it became their, the Holy Grail to go to this place. They are absolutely and utterly obsessed with you too. Okay. So they came, they got so excited. They saw you from afar at the Espies. They died. Then the Espies put us in a car.

A van. I remember. I also remember this. You do. Oh my gosh. Our kids are going to die. Okay. So we're sitting in the van waiting to go home and then the door opens and the fancy people put Simone Biles and Lori Hernandez in our van.

Now my girls actually can't handle their shit. They can't breathe. They can't speak. scared. Sweet Lori Hernandez turns to Tish and says, oh, hi, how are you? And Tish can't speak. She just stares at Lori Hernandez. She ghosted you.

She was just like, turned away. She says no words. So then Lori Hernandez is so sweet that she then tries to high five, Tish and Tish cannot move and leaves Lori Hernandez hanging. Okay. But then our night is redeemed. because Simone Biles turns to Chase and says, I love your shoes. Can I have your Snapchat so I can post them? And to this day, that's the most exciting thing that has ever happened to our family.

Aw. So thanks to both. Truly. Lori, I'm going to start by asking you a question. I know that you are speaking about the importance of mental health on your gold over American tour right now. And I'd like to start there. You took a two-year break from gymnastics after winning gold to recover for an emotionally and verbally abusive coach and to rebuild a healthy relationship with your body. When you told your story in order to have that coach suspended so she didn't harm other athletes, you wrote about how you were constantly told that you were too sensitive and overreacting that you were crazy for having the feelings you had.

You said for years I was taught not to listen to my body or my mind, but now I've learned to trust my gut. and I know that my experience and feelings are valid. No one gets to decide those things for me. Here's to speaking up. So that, Lori, when I read that a long time ago, is when I became your secret best friend and have been your fan ever since. So what I want our audience to know

is that you are a hero of this work, the untamed work of reversing the universal gaslighting of women to keep us in our place and keep us performing. To say, nope, I'm not crazy. I know. So what does that look for you? what does that look like for you these days to just practice trusting yourself in the world? Yeah, I think there's probably two things that has made a really big difference over the last couple

years. One of them is just making small decisions. Like making big decisions was already a big no. It was like, I'm going to need my agent, my mom, my sister, whoever, to do that for me. Like it's, it's, I will not make a decision. And God forbid, if it's wrong, I cannot handle that. I will crumble and disintegrate. Then you will never see. me again. And so it just, it became making small decisions, literally like going to target and picking out a candle or like going somewhere and picking out a shirt and going and picking out what outfit I'm going to wear for the day because those things would take me hours just because the idea of making a decision and not being able to trust myself was so heavy. And over the years, you know, kind of now realizing like then it turned into me saying, is there a way that we can make this? event shorter, is there a way that we can talk about something else? I actually don't like this event or this day doesn't work for me and being able to say those things. It took years to get there, but that is also making a decision and trusting your gut. And it was hard to know that about me because

I also didn't know who I was. I didn't know that I wanted that day off. I didn't know that that was an option that I could ask for. Or I didn't know that, I don't know, maybe I wanted to talk about certain things for a really long time. And there are other things that I'm just not interested in. And I can tell somebody that. And so it took a lot of time to get there. But overall, just making little decisions, I think is what kick started that. Oh, I love that so much. So Simone, you also famously chose your physical and mental health over the world's expectations of you. And your performance from when you withdrew from the Tokyo Olympics. So a little story, my wife, she means. understood, she often does, that it was the bravest and most revolutionary thing on earth.

And she started talking about it and how you had just begun this revolution of women finally speaking up for themselves. And I really wanted to feel what Glennon was feeling. But I couldn't. And I felt weird. So what ended up happening is I went on a run. And on that run, I realized that what I felt when I watch you do that was jealousy. And I don't know if many people would relate or could relate, but to watch you and women like Lori and Naomi Osaka, who are brave and wise enough to look right at the world and the powers that be inside your sport and say, no, enough.

I'd rather disappoint you than myself. My body and soul are more important than your experience of me I am more than what I can do for you. I never did that in my career. I just followed directions and kept performing, even when my body and soul were screaming, no. I let doctors keep prescribing me pills, and just so I can keep performing, by the way.

And that actually almost killed me. So I felt jealous because I was watching women, you, at the highest level, do what I wasn't brave enough to do. How did you do that? You know, in that moment, I had no choice but to do it because selfishly, if I weren't having the twisties, me having my mental like, while being so down in the gutter, I would have kept going. But there was a point where my mind and my body had had enough. And it literally was telling me to stop or else I was going to end something that I started

years ago and not be able to walk again. So I meant thankfully my body. I mean, it does sync up to your mental and your well-being. So thankfully, mine was intact. And unfortunately, it was on the biggest stage of my career. But at the end of the day, it's like I was worth more than gold medals. I was worth more than gymnastics. At the end of the day, I'm not just an athlete.

I'm a human and you guys have to realize that. And I knew I was going to get a lot of backlash. And I did. But most of it was a lot of support, love, strength, courage. and that's something that I never felt before in the sport because people always put me on a pedestal when all I wanted to be was normal. I wanted to be human.

I wanted to be looked at as the same as you. I go to the grocery store. I have bills. I have dogs. I have these things. It's just I do something and I'm incredibly well at it. So why I put me on a pedestal and I always wanted to be seen as normal?

So unfortunately, it took all of that for people to see me as normal. but it's also really hard for people to understand because they can see physical injury. But whenever it's a mental injury, it's like you can't see it. They can't understand, therefore, it's no longer valid. And I think America and just the world has a hard time with dealing with that because it's something they physically can't touch, see or relate to. But now we have these amazing athletes speaking up. and I think it brings the talk to the forefront.

And I think that's a really amazing thing. Yes, to all of that. Okay, I wish there was a crystal ball to tell the future sometimes. And I'm sure anyone who runs or wants to start a business would totally agree. Fortunately, there is a lot of tools out there that can help you if you find yourself in this position, including one of our sponsors, NetSuite. NetSuite offers real-time data and insight for so many business owners. And by that, I mean over 43,000 businesses.

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injured her leg and it forced you to withdraw from the Tokyo Olympics. And you may not know this, but I broke my leg on the field five days before our plane was leaving for the 2008 Olympics. So what I want to know is how did you get through that? How did you survive that? Yeah, you know, time. I don't think there's anything you can actively do besides just give yourself time. Because it was like going through everything that I had been through, taking two years off only to realize that I didn't hate the sport. I hated the environment.

And I wanted to try it again. but I knew I had such a short time frame. And I knew a lot of people weren't going to understand it. I just wanted to try again. And I didn't know what was going to happen. I just wanted things to be different. So it's like I moved across the country, trained as hard as possible because I came back really late.

So it was like we had a lot of hustling and making up to do. I also hit puberty pretty heavily and had like some disordered eating habits. And a lot of it was like binge eating when I was 17. And so having to get back into. to training after a completely different body change was really difficult. And all of these things were happening. And then, you know, training for two years. We hit 2020.

And then in February of 2020, I did a hearing, my old coach. And that happened. They scheduled it on an Olympic year, even though we had reported it four years earlier. And I did this hearing. And I remember we had a camp that was that February. And I pulled out just because I couldn't train. And my coach was really understanding about that. She was like, listen, you can come in.

You can walk around the gym. And like, that's your cardio. If you want a condition, like, you don't have to do anything. I'm not going to force you to do anything. I know this is hard. And that was really what I needed was someone to not push me because that was the last thing that I wanted or could have handled. And then COVID happened. So we had another year of training.

And then it almost like benefited me just because not having to rush the comeback and to, you get more skills and I actually got to play around a little bit, which was not something I got to do a lot growing up. And I think I really just fell in love with the sport all over again. And then meat season came. And it was like we started getting closer and closer and then made championships and landed on a straight leg, hyperxswain to my knee, got a bone bruise, a torn meniscus. And then that was it. And the whole journey was just kind of done. Like there's no resolve for that. And, you know, of course, going into it, you know that's a possibility. But when it happens, it's like I had one experience where everything worked up perfectly and I made the team and like we got a gold and I got an individual silver and then there's a complete opposite of being right there and then getting hurt and not getting able, not being able to even try at all. Like so. Was it like the worst case of FOMO ever? Like when the whole team leaves and you're like, I guess I'll just watch Netflix. So actually it gets worse because there was an opportunity.

And I want to do entertainment and be on screen and to do acting and different things like that. And so Peacock had mentioned like, hey, we would love for you to commentate just the Olympic Games, specifically gymnastics. And I said yes to it because I was like, future me, like this could be really good for the future. Is it good for me right now? No, but it could set up the future really well. And I remember getting there and watching the team compete and wanting everybody to do so well, but also wanting to be out there and then having to break it down for the world. and that was really hard. That sucked.

Oh, my God. But you did such a great job, Lori. Your reviews were literally, they were like, replace anybody like, Lori needs to commentate all of this. You were getting really good reviews. You did a great job. Thank you. I mean, it's got to be so hard talking and kind of criticizing or critiquing some of what your

teammates are actually doing, knowing that you kind of in some ways wanted to be out there. Simone, I want to ask you, what has it been like to be on tour? with some of your former teammates and current teammates. Like how is this tour going? And how are you hoping to get out to the audience? Like what are your messages? Yeah.

For our show, I feel like there's a lot of realness and rawness to it. The storyline is absolutely amazing. We're having fun. But we also go through those anxiety depressions. And it's how we get out of that. And I think that's what's so special about the show that we portray. But it was really nice seeing Lori.

I hadn't seen her in a really long time. We see each other at camps. but it's like more business. We're competing against each other. It's like not the most fun environment. Yeah. It's like to kind of have that rekindled friendship like in 2016 when we were having so much fun kind of like sisterly love has been amazing.

It's a really fun environment. There's no competition. We're just trying to provide and shed like a golden light in such a hard time. COVID, whatever else is going through and just have fun. Oh. You created a whole new environment for it, which is so awesome because Lori, You said that it took you a while to figure out I don't hate the sport. I just hate the environment, which is, by the way, what I figured out in every area of my life. I want to ask both Lori and

Simone, like, when I was younger, I wanted to quit soccer. I think I was like 14 years old. And I missed my friends and I wanted to have like a normal life. And someone I loved and who is dear to me looked at me once and said, Abby, you can't quit. You've been. give in a gift and others would kill to have, right? So you need to do this for all of us. And I remember feeling like, oh, what a, what a burden this is, right? And that sentiment that my talent meant that I owed something to the world was, it was a beautiful blessing because it kept me going when I wanted to quit, but it was also a heavy curse because it took away my choice in life. It made me feel like my life wasn't was chosen for me and it didn't matter whether I love soccer or not. It was like my destiny

and responsibility. So do either of you feel like your talent and your greatness is both a curse and a blessing? Very much. So I feel the exact same. If you want to quit, people kind of push that on you like you've been given this God given talent. Don't waste it. Blah, blah, blah. But it's like if I'm not enjoying it, then it's a burden. Like it's hard. So I do feel in a way it's been the biggest blessing in my life because look what it's given us and the opportunities that it's brought. But on the down end, it's like people don't get that we go through these depression modes and this and that. And it's from our sports because sometimes we're not enjoying it. But then on the other hand, they're like, well, look at the life you've been given.

And it's like, but I worked my ass off for it. It's like it wasn't handed to me. I had to work extremely hard. And so there is definitely both of those sides that I see that it's hard and it's a blessing. but sometimes it can be a cursed. I think people see us do incredible things and they think, wow, I would never be able to do that. I have to let them know how crazy this is or like that's inhuman. Like this is nothing like I've seen before. And then it's like immediate, you are now here and I am here.

I have created this disconnect between you and I. You and I are not human. I am human. What you do, crazy could never touch it. But the fact and the matter is we are human. And when the expectation is put on us to do something superhuman essentially, which is what we do. And gymnastics and in every sport, we train hard as hell. And there's this idea that, oh, you're a different breed.

Oh, you're a different thing. And it's like, no, I'm a human. I work my ass off to get here. I am you, but a different font. Like. Yeah. And I think that's where the burden comes from because then we have this expectation, not only if we want to quit essentially,

then we have other people blaming us for not giving them what they want, which is entertainment or this, that, the other. So it is really hard to find the happy medium. Well, I mean, yes, but what you need to know is regardless of what the circumstances are surrounding, Tokyo, all of that. I mean, I have threads with friends who after that were just like,

wait, no. No, thank you. No to that and also that. And additionally, no again. And no, no. A lot of us didn't know we could quit. Well, yeah, there's this idea that if you, I don't like the word quitting because I feel like it has such a negative connotation to it. Like if you don't want to do something anymore, you can choose to stop doing said thing and then do something that makes you happy. You're not a quitter. You are choosing your own happiness. And I hate when people are like, oh, you quit or, oh, I just quit. she's a quitter, he's a quitter, they're a quitter, whatever it is. Like, that is not it. You chose to stop. It wasn't an accident. It was an intention. And I hate that shit.

Okay, here's why you hate that word, Lori. The origin of that word is quietest and it means to set yourself free. Right. It always had a positive connotation. It only had a negative connotation during the, when the industrial revolution happened, when everyone decided that we should be machines. Yep. So you are correct.

Quit is a choice. Like I, no thank you. I value my humanity. The part I think that irritates me the most is when like the haters call me quitters. It's like you guys have wanted to see me fail for seven years. And I finally did failure in your eyes. And you're still mad at me. I don't get it.

How are you going to go and judge her for choosing an option? I'm like, you fuckers didn't even try. And you're going to go ahead and like. bash on her career and be like, oh, she's a quitter. Did you try? Did you check? No. No. Sit down. Nothing funny. You guys wanted to see me fail. I failed in your eyes. And then you're still mad that I failed. Like, what else do you want? That's the unfortunate problem that most women are up against. Successful women only have a certain length of runway, right? Yes. Unfortunately, don't go away because they're telling you to go away because that's your choice, right?

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So there's something about your relationship. It just feels beautiful and triumphant. And it just feels like a way of you publicly claiming your own humanity. Like, this is for me. This love is mine. I get to be human too. So tell us about Jonathan and how do you keep that love protected from the world? because it feels like you do. And what I also want to know from you, too, is what are the other things in your life that you feel like are just yours and yours alone?

I feel like, first of all, he's absolutely amazing, loves me through thick, thin. He just loves me for me and who I am and not what I do or who the world perceives me as. So I think that's really special. But I also think we keep our love protected, not only because I feel like you could put your relationship out there And I feel like we don't do that as much because that's something sacred to us.

But it's also because we're so busy. So whenever we're at the house, because we do live together, we're just like either watching Netflix or a movie or outside in the pool or playing with the dogs. So a lot of that stuff doesn't get documented. But it's also it's like we don't have to prove to anybody how much we love each other because we know home is home and that's us in our dogs. And so I think that's very special. the kind of relationship that we have,

and we are always cooking dinner for each other together. And our schedules are kind of hectic, but it works. And we make time for each other. And so I think that's also the beauty of love. It is. On the Instagram last. Look at Simone having good boundaries.

No, I think we do. But I also feel like we're in a point in our lives and an age in our lives where we have nothing to prove to anybody. like we live with each other. We're doing great. We don't really argue. And if it is, it's about like,

who took which charger from the kitchen. I feel like that's literally the biggest arguments that we have. He was running around the house before I left for tour, claiming a charger was his. And I'm chasing him. I'm screaming like, that's my charger. And he's just cracking up.

And I'm like, I swear, like, I'll order you a new one on Amazon. And we're just like fighting about that stuff. And I think it's people, people don't realize. that, but we're at an age. People are like, why are you even dating him?

He doesn't post you on his Instagram. It's like, I'm sitting next to him right now. I've been sitting next to him for four hours. We stare at each other. Like, we have nothing to prove to anybody. And I'm at Instagram is beautiful and it can be beautiful. But we have nothing to really prove to anybody. Oh, so good.

Amen. What about you, Lori? What keeps you human? What are your things that remind you that you are a human being and not just a gymnastics machine. Yeah, I think everybody in my inner circle between my person and my friends and my family, like those moments when we're at home and same thing, we're watching Netflix and we're doing absolutely nothing and we're making tea and everything is very quiet and mellow. It is quite the opposite of a gymnastics world or a gymnastics meet. It is loud. You have your hair and makeup done.

You're walking around in leotards, like my cheeks are out because it has to be like. Like, Like, just there's a lot of performance that's happening before you even get into the arena. It's so forceful. I'm like, I have to braid my hair because everybody braids their hair. There's just a lot of performance happening. And it's like when we're home, I look like I just crawl down out of all fours from under the bed. And I have like one sleeve out. And my leggings, one leg is pulled up and one is down.

And I plop down with the bowl of popcorn. I'm like, all right, what are we watching next? And they're like, you get to pick today. And it's just, that is something that gymnastics could never touch. And that is something that is sustainable. And it lasts as long as we wanted to. And gymnastics cannot give me that. And it feels really good.

You have nothing to prove there. Those are your pets. I love my dogs. My dogs are the people who the less I do, the more I love, they love me. Don't you have a dog named Honey? Lori? I do. We actually switched her name and Chewbacca because she got a little crazy and when her hair grows out, she looks like a little EWalk. So if we go Chewy, she listens and responds a little bit better to that. But yes. Oh my God. The dog previously known as Honey is now Chewbacca.

That's amazing. Okay. So both of you, we are raising three kids. And most people who are raising kids have them in some kind of institution, church, school team, something, right? So one of your teammates recently said of the abuse inside gymnastics, all we needed was one adult to do the right thing. Yeah. Okay. Every conscious adult heard that loud and clear from all of you. So how do we make our institutions safer for our children? Like what is it that you needed one adult to do?

Speak up, not break a law. Like, what would it, even if it costs you your job? at least you can go home, sit down on your couch and be like, I did the right thing and I protected hundreds of girls. But instead, you kept that inside and hundreds of us were abused. That I don't think I'll ever live with. And I don't get how they have to be sociopaths to sit down at home and think they did the right thing. I would never, if I see anything, it's like I go to Cecil. I go to my parents. Like I speak up, even if it's little. Like, that just blows my mind.

But my parents have done. My parents actually do own a gym. They built it kind of after all of that a little bit before, but they wanted it to be completely transparent. So all of our viewing windows can see the whole entire gym to stop that abuse of any sort. And so you'll think like the coaches are like joking with the athletes, but from upstairs, maybe the parents look like it's yelling.

So they'll call down to the coach. And so they're like, are you yelling at my, they're yelling at my daughter? They're like, no, no, we're joking. So now then the coaches aren't allowed to have phones on the floor, this and that. But there are different ways in doing it. But if you just have one adult that speaks up, especially if they have kids, that's what worries me the most is some of these parents had kids. And I mean, you should do the right thing because I know Lori and I had spent the majority of our lives in the time of our days with our coaches. so we kind of become daughter-like to them because we're with them more than our parents.

So it's just, it's a crazy world out there. Yeah, it was just one person who's witnessing it, like completely different situation. But being at the gym and hearing my coach scream at the top of her lungs that we would get noise complaints from in the parking lot because they could hear her. And another coach being in the gym and coming to me afterwards because I was, crime because I hated that because I was a child and what child wants to be yelled at that loudly. And her saying, I remember it like it was yesterday, her saying, you know, she just wants the best for you. And it's like, but she cannot yell at you that way. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's like she just wants, oh, like she pushes you this hard because like she wants you to be great and da-da-da. And I'm like, did you hear the words she said as she? I'm like, it's not even like she said anything nice and then yell. it with quote quote passion. Like she said something really messed up and then proceeded to yell it. And you're telling me that she's doing this because she wants the best for me. It's the equivalent of like when little kids are at school.

And they're like, oh, he's being mean to you because he likes you. Like, no. No, that's not how it goes. And I just had that person looked and said, you know what? Seeing an adult yell at a kid is not the way to go. And then telling somebody about it or coming to me and saying, are you okay? That seemed really scary. Because I now have to do that for little me when she was right there and she could have done that.

I read that you said that, Lori, and that, like, what you are doing right now is for little Lori and for all the little Lori's. I mean, that you have become what you needed when you were younger, both of you. And what the hell better thing can we do? What better thing can we do? It's just. Well, and it gets really confusing as an athlete because I know in my experience, being pushed requires or so I thought. We rationalize all of this stuff.

And one day, Glennon, I said, well, it just made me stronger. That's what I said. Well, it made me stronger. It made me who I was. And she said, could you imagine not having experienced some of that how much more strong you probably could have been? Yeah. I think about that a lot.

Because it made you stronger as an athlete, but weak as a person. And I think people take advantage of that. Oh. That's what I meant. Retweet. I think also some people like some people probably look at the experience and they feel bad and they don't know what to say. And they're like, well, it made you stronger. And I'm like, actually, no, it just really made things a lot worse.

Like, not much came from that except for the fact that now I have time to work on myself. And it is so painful to have to become the thing that you needed at that. time. It is a painful process. And so I think people are like, oh, but that makes you stronger. I'm like, that actually didn't have to happen. But thank you for the kind of kind words. That's right. Maybe we stop that though. Maybe we stop just assigning that. It's another form of like women have to be grateful all the time. Well, I was abused, but I guess it made me stronger. No, it didn't. Yeah. Right. We don't have to suffer. People can treat us well and that can make us strong. That's right. So I have to ask because I know we don't have a ton of time left. And I have, I have to

know this because we are people who have been training for a whole lifetime. I didn't understand how weird that life is until I retired and experienced how other people live. And I spent my entire career desperate for more freedom. And then when I got it, I felt literally paralyzed and terrified of that freedom. So, I mean, literally for decades, I had a daily itinerary slipped under my, my hotel door back when they used paper for folks told me what to eat, what to do, every hour, right? I literally didn't know how to create a day for myself. Lori just lifted hers up. She has her it's right in front of her. Right. So do you think about life after gymnastics and what are your hopes and dreams for the next phase? What do you want to be and do? I'm so curious, like if you

even have started that process? I feel like it's hard because like you said, we have our daily schedules. And if it's not in the gym, it's by our agencies. But it's also things that we love and we chose to do. But at the end of the day, life without a schedule, even on my Sundays and stuff, I give myself a schedule because I don't know how to work without one. I feel lazy, useless. But then other days, it's like, no, I'm going to take this day to rot and do nothing. And I have to. appreciate that. So I do think it is hard. But if I have a hope for my future would definitely be to help foster kids and the foster care system, because that's something that I feel really passionate about. But other than that, I feel like I've dedicated my whole life to gymnastics.

So it's time to give myself some me time before I figure out the next thing. Yes, please. What about you, Lori? Yeah, I think just for, Following curiosity, I, you know, me and my person made a vow that, like, we would never do anything that we felt we were stuck in. Like, as soon as you hit the point where you feel like you're trapped and, like, you don't want to be there and that you wish you were doing something else, like, you desperately wish you were somewhere else, that's it. We're going to do something different or something's got to change. But I would love to go to college and hopefully study acting and screenwriting and animation. and animation and stuff like that just because I think it's so much fun

and I find a lot of joy in it. But I've also kept in mind like, okay, if one day you wake up and you hate it, we're going to do something else. And I'm sure there's something that I'm curious about and I'll just follow it and see where it goes. And then if I hate that thing, there's more. So I love it.

We were at this place recently. We saw this rock that said, bloom where you are planted. And we're like, but we're not plants. Yeah. People have like, we can. move. That's a good philosophy for plants and that's it. Right? We can change our circumstances. But I think in today's age, we're so kind of brainwashed of that. And it's almost forced upon us.

And we think that's the only way to live life is you have to hate it because you're either making money or this and that. But it's like, no, we can find other things just because you have a degree in this doesn't mean that's what you have to follow through at. There are a lot of different avenues for us as a person and that's how we actually grow. That's right. And that's what you're doing right now with this tour. I mean, it's so wonderful because there's nothing I like to see. Keeping that love that you have or, you know, of gymnastics, but then doing it your way

with your people is so. Creating the world in which you need. Yeah. In which you needed in order to be safe, to be free and to be happy. Like that's what you all are doing. You're trying to show the world what you need, right? They don't have it. If there is nothing out there, go ahead and make it. And that's what y'all are doing. The goat tour is. The goat tour. This time of year, I am always looking for my sweaters.

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Go to quince.com slash hard things for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash hard things to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hard things. Our friend Cameron Svizito told us the story the other day that she was working with this personal trainer who was really young, like 25 or something. She said, well, what are you going to do? You know, where are you going to work next? And he said, I think I'm going to quit personal training because I just feel like I've helped enough people.

And I was like, that's the most revolutionary thing I've ever heard. I've done it. You two have helped enough effing people. That's right. And if you want to just dance off into the sunset and follow your curiosities forever, that's what you freaking should do. Okay. So we need to get into some rapid fire questions because I love the rapid fire. So sorry if you don't love them.

Also, we just want to know what you guys. like consume because we just want to be more like you. We want to have what you're having. So tell us what does your perfect day look like right now. Your perfect day morning tonight. What would you do? Oh, if I could have a perfect day, it's definitely at the beach. That's where I most feel free. Oh, most feel free. Love it. I love that for you. My perfect day would be sleeping in, having morning coffee, doing some kind of podcast, binge watching movies, and then eventually having to go outside just because it that feels right and then coming back inside. I love it. I used to get grounded outside, Lori, when I was little because I hated the

outside so much. Okay. What's your favorite movie, both of you? Oh, mine is any comedy movie. I love, I love to laugh. I like, you know which one I like? But, wait, wait, you go first, Larry. Okay. I have three, well,

technically four all-time favorites that they all tie together. It's tangled, the spy who dumped me, forgetting Sarah Marshall and Silver Linings Playbook. That's amazing.

She knows them in order. High heart right now. I know. Love it. Good picks. I can't even remember what it is, but it's on Netflix. She was in,

um, uh, She went to New Orleans with girls. Something great? No, no, no. She took like, there was like four girls. They went to New Orleans and they went on, they were like partying in New Orleans.

I know what you're talking about. We're going to figure it out. We're going to find out the title. We'll put it in the show notes. I love that when we say we're going to put it in the show. I know. We actually don't even know what the hell that is. Girl strip.

Girl strip. It's girls trip. Yes. Very good. What about your most favorite book you've ever read? Or just what you're reading now, because that's stressful. I just finished a book that was 835 pages. It's called Priory of the Orange Tree.

And it is incredible. I love fiction books. It was the most mind-blowing thing I have ever read. I will now be disappointed with every other book I read. Oh, my God. Good job for you, Lori. Can you say the title again? What was the title?

What was the title? Oh, okay. I'll be getting it next. It's good. It's good. What about you, Sam? I don't really read. That's okay. Guess what I do. I never really read a lot, but now in my retirement, I have to run so that I stay fit and healthy. And so I listen to books on tape. That's how I can see. Oh, that's so smart. But one of my favorite ones that I did read would be the sub to art of not giving a fuck. Oh, that's a good book. That was a great book. book. Simone, you could write that book. Do you guys have any favorite podcasts you're listening to?

Okay. So the girls got me hooked on. Go ahead. Oh, no. I was just saying like this one. I love listening to you guys chat. And so I'm just like, oh, my God, it's happening. The cross over is happening. So this one and then armchair expert. It just feels like a fly on wall. Yep. So fun. You guys have so much time. I guess since I was so still training. I just slept or ate or I was at the gym. Yeah, Simone, everyone else on Earth has a lot more time than you do. I know, I really do feel like that right now. But the girls kind of are getting me hooked on a podcast called Serial. And it's like these like murder crime mysteries. Oh my gosh. Look at them. Okay.

So listen to me. Like when podcast, this is before podcasts were a thing. Yeah. This is back when I was still playing cereal came out. And it was like it blew our whole team away. Right. I ended up sitting next to the creator. of that podcast and it was like that was like my that was my claim to fame moment I was like oh I love that

podcast she loves murders I just feel like life is scary enough and we don't need to add it is but it's so interesting yeah it is I like reading the murder mysteries okay music and then we're gonna we're gonna let you go music what kind of music do you listen to right now my favorites would probably be doge cat meg the stallion um yeah those are our sons two, maybe two favorite people. Okay. And Lori? I like anything that could be played on a road trip in the early morning. There's a song called Little Giant that I have been nonstop listening to. And the lyrics are adorable and it feels like an ear hug. Okay. So your next right thing, people, is to follow every single thing that Lori Hernandez and Simone Biles do. Find their tour.

Additionally, go to the goat tour. Bring your kids. This is the good stuff. Is it called the gold tour? No, the goat tour. Is it for real called the goat tour? Yes, because G-O-A-T. Gold over America tour. That's right. Okay. And Simone and her, Lori, I would like to end with this.

When Abby retired, Barack Obama tweeted out, congrats to the goat. And Abby called her agent so sad and upset because she didn't know what a goat was and she thought that Barack Obama was making fun of her. I was like, what does that mean? And he's like, greatest of all time, Muhammad Ali. What? I'm dying.

Oh, so that's. good. That's a good thing. He's like, yes, it's a good thing. I'm like, oh my gosh. We love you. We believe so strongly in you. We just want to be your aunts or your big sisters. And we want you to know that we will be in both of your corners forever. And please let us know if you need anything in the world. We will be in your corner forever. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. This is wonderful. We love you both. We love you too. Thank you so much. So great day. I give you Tish Milton and Brandy Carlisle.

I came out the other side. I chase desire. I made sure I got what's mine. I continued to believe that as I'm, because we're adventurers and heartbreak. A final destination They've stopped asking directions To places they've never been

And to be too hard A brand new star And sometimes things fall hard I continue to best people are free look some time but I'm finally fine because we're adventurers and heart breaks on map a final destination we've stopped asking directions to places they've never been to be We Can Do Hard

To Play and do We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts. Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine.