We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 50. GET UNTAMED (Live!): This is How You Find Yourself

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

1. What Tish said when asked, “Who has taught you the most about love?”— why it was the best day of Abby’s life, and led her to redefine what it means to be a mother.   2. Glennon declares herself a great adventurer, without movement: an inner travel guide—and how the new journal will help steer us toward our next right thing.  3. How the pandemic brought Amanda’s anxieties, traumas, and relational cracks, previously on a slow burn, to center stage—and what she’s learning from “Be Still and Know.”  4. Why Glennon says whatever we’re envious of is what we need to go for—and how that led to the creation of this podcast.

Because we're adventurers in heart breaks. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today is a wild situation. I'm really excited about it. It's an experiment. We did an experiment on We Can Do Hard Things. So this episode you're about to hear is our first attempt at recording a podcast live. with the Pod Squad.

It was so fun. Oh my God. It was so awesome. It was the journal event when we launched Get Untamed, the journal. And it was so much fun that we are definitely considering doing more. I mean, wasn't it over 13,000 people registered? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so cool. That were there. Yeah. What did you think, Sissy? Well, I loved it for so many reasons. First of all, the fact that we. every time we record one of these podcasts, it's we imagine that we're talking directly to the person.

So it was so cool to be able to do it and actually be talking directly to the next person. So I thought it was great and I loved it. And the coolest part of the whole thing is that when we, everyone who registered for that event got a copy of the journal and we sourced all of those 13,000 books to local independent. and mortar black owned bookstores, which was very, very cool and very hard for them. But it was amazing. They were so grateful. It was record-breaking. It was the biggest event that our publisher had ever done. And also all the black-owned bookstores, they dug so deep to get all those orders out. They had to rent different space and members from our internal team went. out and actually help them, you know, wrap those books with love and send them out. So it was just

very, very cool to be able to support those small businesses who have endured so much over the last 20 months. I mean, on average, during the pandemic, one local indie has closed every week. And to be able to support those bookstores and have people support them through us was really cool. Yeah. It was awesome. And I, I love independent bookstores. I last year was the ambassador for independent bookstores. Did you know that, Abby Wambach? I did.

You actually haven't stopped talking about it. Oh, okay. You know, every time we walk. So Glennon's thing is she loves to go into independent bookstores. I do is my favorite. It's like she sees one across the street and she's like, I got to go. And she just leaves me sitting there waiting. And it's the only time I walk around just praying that someone will recognize me.

Well, she walks in and as she's walking in, she's always like, you know that I was the ambassador. Every time. And listen, we go into independent bookstores once or twice a week. Yeah. Every time I'm like, babe, I got it. It's like Chase says, it's the only time when being recognized is like awesome for me and Chase. That's right. It's the only time we actually love it is when we're in a bookstore. I don't know. It's going to be so sad for you when they name a new indie ambassador for the next year. You're going to have to retire your crowd. It's going to be really awful. I can tell you what that feels like when.

When someone takes away when somebody takes over. I'll be here for you when you fall down. Well, that's sad. I only have two more months as the National Independent Mostor. Well, you're really getting all the juice out of this appointment, as we're still talking about it 10 months later. So I feel like you're really maximizing. Here's why it's important to me, actually, because I, because of my job and because of my personality, have been inside

bazillions of independent bookstores. And what I will tell you about people who own, found work at independent bookstores is that none of them are assholes. Yeah, they're of good people. They're just always, because I don't know, they're just always amazing people

who get into it to spread the love of books and knowledge and connection and serve their communities in such important ways. Also kind of like mysteriously intimidating because I haven't read all the books that they have, right? So when you walk into, you know that an independent bookstore worker, they've read a lot. They're smarter than you. They're smarter than you. And so it's a little intimidating. But if you can get over yourself and just

start asking questions, they'll point you into the right direction. That's right. If you can admit that you have not read all of the books that they have. That's right. Right. So like if your therapist ever cancels during a certain week, just find your local India and go in and be like, hey, what's the answer? It's so true. Maybe they'll be able to help you. They probably are the only people who actually have the answers. Yeah. But we don't have any answers, as you know, but we do have some really freaking good questions. And one of the questions I have for the Pod Squatters is did they like the live event?

Yeah, we want to hear because we were thinking about doing more. Maybe we might do it again or multiple times. Maybe once a month. I think it would be interesting and fun. and maybe the pod squatters could get the episode early because we have to record these episodes early. Oh, so by listening? Yeah, you get in on the action beforehand. I don't know.

Is that interesting? Maybe I'm scared. Do you make any huge commitments. My favorite part was the chat. Oh, my gosh. The 13,000 people chatting with each other on the side and they were planning, I kid you not, retreats with one another. They were planning, they were planning, like, instruments.

Instagram pages that they were setting up during the events, they could all get together and read and fill out the journal together. They were planning T-shirts. It was like an entrepreneurial community connection in the 13,000 people commenting. It was awesome. That makes me so happy. And I feel like that's a fit for me is I can provide a space for other people to plan to get together. Like I can't plan the get together, but I can provide a fake space, an internet virtual space where other people can do that. Okay. Awesome, amazing. Clearly we loved it. You guys and people, humans, tell us if you loved it. But for now, let's jump into our Get Untamed live conversation. You should know that I've been sitting in front of this computer for probably 45 minutes because I've been so excited. Loads of fun. To start this event. I can't believe.

I still cannot believe that you all keep showing up. I know some of you are new to this whole whatever it is that we're doing here. And some of you have been around for so long. But I started writing and speaking to you all 15 years. ago when I was raising a tiny little people and I basically was just sending messages out into the void just like, I'm so lonely. Does anybody hear me? Is anybody out there?

And basically, that's what I've been doing every day since then. Yeah, that's right. You know, I heard somebody say recently that when we write, we or make art, that we're just like throwing flares up into a dark night, just hoping that our people find us. And I just want you all to know that for the last 15 years, which really was right after I got sober, you know, I mean, it was early on going for me. You have been my people. I mean, you don't know what being, having you all to show up for over and over and over again every day has steadied me and has been just one of the greatest damn gifts of my entire life. This is very, very real to me. When I am 90 years old, I will look back on this.

Well, I hope we're still, I'll still be on Instagram, liking all. Like, that's me. I like every single one of your freaking comments for the last 15 years. Some days I look over, I'm like, what are you doing, babe? She's like, just liking some of my jeans. I love it. I'm just really grateful for you. And I know that this past year or two now, I think about how much loss, collective loss, we have all endured in the last two years.

It's just. freaking incredible what we have had to do and keep showing up for our people and ourselves. And it's just everybody, everybody on earth right now does, well, there's a few people that most people deserve a standing ovation these days. Right. So thank you. I love you. You are my people.

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Okay, so what I thought about how I wanted to talk about this, and I'll tell you this, when Abby used to go away, first she'd have to go away for a speaking trip or something, she'd have to leave for three or four days. Pre-COVID, obviously. Right, pre-COVID. She used to do this thing where she'd leave the car in a specific way in place. She'd park it in a specific way in place. We all know you're not parking in a very specific way. That's right. That's right. So she did that because she would be amazed every single time when she'd come back home four days later, five days later. And she would see that the car had not been

moved at all. And she would come in the house and she would say, for Christ's sake, again, you did not leave the house again. And I would say, what? Really? Really? You'd go, no, you didn't leave the house. And it would blow my mind because I would say, but I, I feel like I did so much. Like, I feel like I had such great adventures while you were gone. That's correct. And it just became this joke between us, but that was something was kind of interesting about it. And the truth is, is that I have always had the greatest adventures.

inside myself. Like, I have always been a great adventurer, but, but without moving, okay, meaning like, I, stationary adventures. Stationary adventures. Stratio by Glenn and Doyle. There's so much, you know, like, and, you know, I can be, you know, stimulated by like poetry or art or music or something, an article or whatever, but none of it requires any movement, right? So it's like it stirs up something and then eight hours later I'm just like spinning around through the house. Oh yeah. Right. And so everything out of cabinets. That's true. Everything. Right. Right. Mold through. Yeah. Things do happen. Nothing, nothing put back or no cabinets closed. Right. Right. Right. And so what I'm trying to say is that.

actually, there are a lot of people, it's funny, and it's also, there are people who are more wired for inner adventure than out of adventure. Totally. For many reasons, social anxiety, anxiety of all kinds, high sensitivity to loud, to sound and light a lot of the things that make us go into sort of shutdown mode outside. We can stay open and curious inside. The point being that I realize that I am never going to be able to write you guys like you people, like a travel guide. I'm never going to be able to, you know, be one of those travel writers who tells you where to go about the beautiful.

Out there. That's right. That's right. But I can be an inner travel guide. That's correct. Right? It's like the interior bucket list that you're looking for. It's like a scuba diving, but it's inner without any water or equipment.

An interior bucket list. That's blowing my mind, Susie. And I feel, I said so many things that were good. I know. God, I'm working so hard over here. Bam. Anyway, it's a good time for an inner scuba dive, okay? Because we are going into this wherever the hell we are in COVID. But I think that we are kind of considering what's next, right? The building of the new normal, which has to be different than the old normal. That's right. Because the old normal was only serving like five people. And so we need this whatever we build next, our relationships, our different family structures, different institutions, different work life, all of that, we have to start somewhere better.

Meaning before we just kind of went with status quo, right? We just like plugged ourselves in. We designed our lives from the outside inside. We fit ourselves into other things and tried to like make ourselves fit. We like got it done. We're like, we see the game. Here's how we're going to play. Yeah.

And now I think we have a real chance to take a minute and excavate ourselves. Think about what we actually want. Like what are actual emotions are, what our actual intuition is telling us, what our actual imagination. Pull it all out. And so we have a better starting place for what to build next. It's almost like the question for me now is. is not what are we going to build next. It's like, hold on a second.

Let's decide who is going to be doing the building. Before we decide. Thank you, baby. Thank you. So I just thought for this, that we could have like a homecoming. That this, maybe this journal could be a bit of a homecoming for each of us because so many of us just started pleasing so early

that we really haven't. You know, the world hasn't insisted that we take the time to figure out who we are and what we dream of and what our emotions guide us to and what our intuition tells us to do. You know, how do we take that time to use our own imagination, spirit, whatever you want to call it, as the starting place? Yeah, I mean, that was like the thing after untamed. was published. It was the thing that everybody kept asking us. Okay, this is really good, but how do we do this? Yeah. And that was a hard question for me because the last thing that, and all of you all know, is that I think the reason why so many people ask me for advice is because I never give it, right? Because I'm like so anti-advice because we, well, the only thing I know is that each of us is

living out a completely unprecedented and unrepeatable experiment. That's nobody in the entire world has ever lived your life so they sure as hell don't know what you should do. So when when people started asking me that question, as you know, I just kept saying, I don't know, I don't know, because I felt like they were asking me for the answers and everyone's answers are different. But what I figured out eventually was like, no, no, no, I can give questions. Like I can ask questions that I ask myself during my great adventures by myself in my wherever I am for the day. I can ask questions that will guide people, the couch, right, that will hear, that will guide people towards the answers that are already inside of them. Yes. And that is what I hope this

journal is. Stuff to just like stir, stir up, like excavate that self that has been buried for so long beneath what everybody in the freaking world expects from us. Just the idea that there is a self. And you kept calling it an experiment. Like you kept calling the journal the the experiment. And it was like a process that we could go through and just undertake and see like what we could learn about ourselves. And so I'm curious because we've all done it. She was she assigned Glennon assigned Abby and herself to go. go through this whole journal. And it was so wild because I was like, we, I mean, we live and breathe untamed. I just didn't think that there would be anything relevatory that we hadn't actually

already thought about. But it blew my mind to be like, oh, there's so much more. Gee, I feel like that there's a part that you want to talk about, that a nurse are hidden beliefs. Well, the first part is about, you know, so if you think of us as trees, which you probably don't, but I do. Obviously. These are my people. They think of us as trees, okay? So if you think of us as trees, there's the parts of us you can see.

And then there's the stuff underneath, right? That like the roots that are beneath us that keep us grounded, right? But also keep us planted in the same place. I think about these as our hidden beliefs that were passed down to us from our families or our religions or our culture. and some of them are serving us and are great. And some of them no longer do. And we don't even know what they are until, you know, we're like, why am I doing this? Why am I not speaking up?

Why am I, why am I, why am I, why am I, oh, because I have this, like, I have this deep belief that was planted beneath me that good mothers murder themselves, right? And you don't, why am I, all of those things? And so we don't know what those aren't. we really think about, like, what do I believe about what makes a good woman, what makes a good partner, what makes a good worker, what makes a good daughter? And then you start to, like, journal all that down and you're like, oh, well, no wonder I do what I do because I have like a software, a hardware, probably, like programmed into me that makes me act in a certain way.

So that's what, like, unearthing those things. And there's hell of hard to change. Hella hard. Right. But I think they are, if you can see them, if you can make the invisible visible, it helps you understand yourself better. That's right. I mean, I think that when I read through this journal, one of the parts that just struck me big time was this stuff about mothering.

And for me, I think that I had a root belief that I needed to be, in order to be considered or to consider myself a mother, I needed to have some sort of DNA bond with our children. When we first started talking and then dating and then when we got married, like, you know that children have been an important thing that I wanted to experience. And so this whole notion about what a mother is just totally floored me. And it took me a long time to actually get through it because the experiment, as you would call it. Because it was hard. It was hard to get true and real with maybe this idea, this belief about what I believe a mother is that I grew up understanding. I was trying to, I didn't want to force the rewrite of it.

I wanted to be real, you know? And so I also didn't want to lie. Like, I didn't want to put down things just to prove my current life correct. Yes. Yes. I've lied in so many journals. Totally. To whom?

To know what to myself. And I have like 20 journals that have just the first page written in it. Anyways, I just think that getting through the mothering part for me, and I think if I can remember it was like the very first couple of pages of this journal working through it. It was really helpful. And it made me understand a part of myself that I'm a little bit of afraid of. I mean, you know, you know that I'm a little bit scared. And sister, I think you know this too, that I'm a little bit afraid. I have been in my life. I need to stop saying that. I have been afraid in my life to go inside to do this interior adventure work. Yeah, you're more of an outer

adventure. That's right. And I have, I have, um, overcompensated in the outward adventure of my life. So as to never go inside. So maybe, maybe we have the opposite. Maybe that's why we were brought together. Yeah. Touch. Um, I have actually called myself a home sexual because I am so, I love home so much. I want to marry home. I never want to leave home. I am a home sexual. People are going to have some thoughts about that, I bet. It was okay because I'm also a homosexual. This time of year, I am always looking for my sweaters. Luckily, Quince has all of the staple sweaters covered from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim

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Okay. So this one night, sister happened to be here in our house. Yeah. Our whole team was actually here. And we were playing this game, this question game that, and Tish was also with us. Yes. We're playing this question game and what ended up happening was the question got asked to Tish, who has taught Tish the most about love? And in fact, Glennon kind of made Tish answer this question. I rigged it. Yeah.

She rigged it. And she rigged it because she thought and she knew the answer that Tish was going to give. It was going to be me. Of course. She was like, it's a done deal. I'm going to be I'm going to look good in front of my whole team. Yeah. Right.

Well, Tish sat there for a second and she considered her options and understood that there was a lot kind of playing on the line right then in that moment. She knows her mom. She knows her mom. And so she looked at you to kind of get, is it okay if I am like actually really honest? Yes. She said, is it okay if I'm really honest? Yeah.

And I was like, well, no. Unless it's going to be Glennon coming out of your mouth. No. And Tish ended up saying me. She said, Abby. Yeah. Abby has taught me the most about love. Everything in my body, like, parallel.

It just goes, it goes completely numb. And I am struck by. Joy and I start to completely lose it. I start to cry because I didn't understand that that would be a thing. And so Tish then explains to us that the reason why she feels this way is that Glennon, you and Craig have to love her, right? And that I choose to love her. And I think that the very thing that I was afraid of actually not making me or making me feel or or be seen or experience motherhood is in fact the very thing that makes my child feel love. Yes.

And so even though I went through that part in the journal and it was really hard and I got some truth out of it. And then, and because this was a part of my consciousness, this is why I broke down, is because I had been filling this stuff out and looking through the journal and trying to figure out my place in it all. And as a bonus parent, what we call it or step-parent, you know, it's just one of those things that you just don't ever know if you're going to be seen as a parent or in my case of mother. And when a child expresses themselves to you that they see you in that way, it completely blows up all of the notions of the stupid conditioned mindset that we were all

raised to believe what love is because it was not what I thought. It was not what I thought. It's so incredible that in that night was unbelievable. Everybody was crying. Yeah, I know. She started crying and sister started crying. I cried inside, but my Lexapro just stops the tears right at the tear duct, so you can't see it. So I have to tell people when I'm crying. Yeah. She's like, I'm crying too, I swear.

Yeah. But it was, I just think that what you said is the very thing, you thought, well, I'm not a real mom because I didn't, I don't have the paperwork. I don't have the DNA. I just choose to be here. So I'm not a real mom. And Tish is like, the fact that you don't have the paperwork and that you don't have the DNA and that you keep choosing to love me is the reason I feel such strong love from you. Yeah. It's just. And the fact that you weren't like you were trying to convince yourself that

it, that you believed it. Like it's also like, but actually you had to believe it was true in advance to make it true, right? Like the only way that Tish ends up in that room saying that to you is because of those years of you pouring into her like that. like behaving as if it were true to have real genuine, like, rock hard love with her. So it was like shocking and unbelievable to you. But some part of your imagination had to have like already believed that it was true or else all of your years of action didn't, wouldn't have made any sense. So it's like the opposite.

It's like it's like maybe believing in something is acting as if it were true even when we doubt it. Or like instead of you have to see it. Yes. Until it's true. It's the invisible order. Right. Believe in your invisible order.

Believe in your imagination. Believe. You can't see it. You can't be it if you can't see it. But it's like maybe you have to believe it in order to see it. Yeah. And it's so funny because I feel that so much of my life has been in search of outward affirmation or acceptance.

in any way. And for Tish to say that to me helped me feel like a mother. So it wasn't just because I needed to hear it from her. Like it unlocked something inside of me that made me be like, oh, right, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. And actually I said that that night. You did. You said this is the best day of my life.

Yeah, this is the best day of my life. Did you feel like that actually helped you replace that belief? Because that's what I don't know. Like for real? Like because, you know, things happen and we're like, no, I believe that. But do you really feel like you've replaced your belief about what makes a real mother? Yeah. So I think that some of this stuff goes only so deep, right?

Like it can get into a layer of you. And then the conditioned part of my mind can play tricks. Right. It totally can play tricks on me. But I have to get into the part of my mind that remembers that moment. That's right. Right. And so the more of those moments you can have and store in your memory, I think that that's the antidote to combat the overall conditioning that we have.

And we've been sent through the whole of our lives, right? I love that. Just takes a lot of those times and repetitions. I like to say, I'm going to keep that in my back. pocket. Yeah. I'm going to keep that in my back pocket forever. And so whenever the voice in my head or, you know, that conditioning kind of shows its ugly little face, I'm like, you can remember. Look what I got. I got a mother card back here. That's so good. What about you, Sissy? What Amanda? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What thing struck you in the journal? For me, it was

definitely the Be Still and No section, which you'll be shocked to learn, was the case. But I think it really, especially after the whole pandemic, I think that it's clear to me that throughout this pandemic, I have not coped well. And the Be Still and No section made me realize that what COVID kind of did for me is it took all of. of my anxieties and traumas and these like relational cracks that were previously just like on a slow burn of plausible deniability and kind of brought them to center stage in like three-dimensional technicolor. Like it was like what had before been like an elephant in the room that a semi-healthy person could kind of ignore became like an actual elephant stomping on my actual face.

It felt like that the whole time of COVID, which was lovely. But one of the ways it became most apparent to me was with my children over this past bit. And I have two neurodiverse kids and was what had before felt like this kind of theoretical anxiety about the challenges became in COVID actually, you know, sitting with my son in real time watching him struggle to try. to follow and learn from a system that in many ways is not compatible with his executive functioning and his attentional biology. And it was just this kind of hellacious crucible for me because it was a perfect storm of all my internal bias and all of my fears and all of my achievement addiction. So at the end of the day, it came down to this kind of primal fear of will.

they be okay? Like if he can't follow this three minute task, how will he be okay in a world that demands so much of us and can be so cruel? And so slowly, painfully, and as I was working through that section, and it was painful, but I realized that, oh, the only thing that is going to help them be okay is if I truly both. believe that they are. Not that I tell them that they're okay, but that I truly believe in the deepest parts of me that my children are perfect and miraculous even, right? Because until I really believe that, all of the fear in me that's trying to protect them from the world will inevitably just be received by them as the shame and judgment. That is the same shame and judgment. That is the same

shame and judgment I'm trying desperately to protect them from. Be still a no for me is actually about like actually knowing and believing that my kids are okay because when they know that, they will be that. That made perfect sense to me for my babies because I actually believe that they are miraculous. But when that truth settled in on me, I realized that I actually don't hold that truth about myself. And it's kind of like that same shame and judgment of not being enough that I allow to myself to heap on myself is fear poisoning my life. Like it just that poison will never leave me until I truly, at the deepest parts of me,

believe that I'm okay. And so I think that that is what I know is me. my challenge. Like I have to be still and know that I am okay and miraculous even because when I know that, I will be that. And to me, that's maybe the most really believing I'm okay is maybe the most important thing that I can do and probably the foundation of anything else I can do. I mean, if you could just understand how I feel about you and how I see you that you could ever, and I know that you feel this way and I want to honor the way that you feel. But if I just, if you need the way that I see you some days, just like ask me to tell you how I feel about you. If you need it, I will pump you up because there is nobody who feels more sure that you are magic than me.

And I know you. I mean, good, good Lord, you're incredible. What does, Sissy, what does the not enoughness, the fear feel like? And what, and do you have waves of the enoughness? And what does that feel like? Do you know what I mean? Like, what does it feel like in your body or to you when you have the, I am not okay feeling? Mm-hmm.

I mean, to me, it feels like a loop in my head. Like, it feels like the, the stories I tell myself. Like, if I am comfortable, if I am not at breaking point, then I'm not doing enough. Like, if I am not at breaking point, someone will suffer and my work, my team, my kids, like that it's just never enough. And I know intellectually that those are projections of my insecurity. and that this belief that I have to kind of hustle for my worthiness, but I'm trying right now to really ask myself questions about how true that is. Like, is this working for me? Are my people benefiting from my insistence that this is in fact true? Like, is it possible that something else is true that will feel more like freedom? And I mean, is it possible that my life and my life and my feelings?

family and my work would benefit from me not being empty. And also, is it possible that I'm worthy of that even if no one benefits from it? Yeah. Yes. Um, yes. So I'm just trying to, I'm just, that's what it feels like. It feels like the constant questioning, the constant you can't rest. You only have what you have because you haven't stopped hustling. Yes. And at any moment if you choose to do that, you won't have it anymore. As our friend Kate Buller would say, I am the center that must hold. Right. I am the center that must hold.

Yeah. Ooh, sissy. She's just a barrel of monkeys of light. Easy breezy is what we call sistered me. You are a good time. Call me. We are a good time. Fun, fun, fun.

fun everywhere you look. I want to know. I love you both. Gosh. Oh, I love you, Abby. Um, okay, after years of writing untamed and years of writing this journal, like, how the hell is it possible? I want to know what, did anything new come to you, G, when you did your experience? Yeah. Because I'm like, oh my God. It's a bottomless pit of adventure. Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all, you give me a bunch of questions. So my job is to ask myself these questions alone by myself for days. And then wait a minute. I made the questions. It's rigged. It's rigged. I love these questions. Yeah. No. Yeah, no, I actually feel like it stirred up a lot for me. You know that my loop got a little intense. I think it's so interesting that you described the not enoughness as a loop because when I got still and

new during the be still and no part, I realized I was not in a good place and started meditating again. And it's just interesting to me, and I won't get too far off on this, but that the not enoughness is always up here. Like whenever you describe, the not enoughness is always a mind thing. It's always a loop. And then usually when people feel. feel the enoughness, the piece, it's more embodied. You know, it's like a dropping below that, that wild, not enoughness. And so that was really important to me because I was trying to change my thoughts. And that doesn't work for me.

I had to, I have to get below my thoughts. I have to almost ignore my own thoughts, which is weird because my thoughts also do good things for us. Right. So it's like, how do we know when to pay attention and when to ignore? That's a really good question. No, it's not. Billion dollar question people.

Do any of you all know? I do. It's like when my thoughts are creative and kind, it's like I'll join them. But when my thoughts are mean to me or other people, I don't trust them. It's like, here we go again. This is not. And also, you know, your mind is a good thing to be the boss of, but not a good thing to let be the boss of you. So if I'm like, brain, we have a project.

We're going to write an Instagram post about blah, blah, blah. My brain is great. My brain's like, yay, let's go. But if I'm like trying to relax and my brain is like, Glenn, and here's what we're going to think about. We're going to think about like how much did you allow yourself to eat yesterday? And also that friend, that friend is getting a lot more done than you are. It's like when I allow my brain to take me somewhere, it's not a good place. Right?

It's not a good place. So your brain is like a toddler. My brain is like a toddler. And a jackass one. Like a really not, like not trustworthy, poorly raised. Just bleh. I think that at one point you said, I've been listening to my thoughts.

Like they are the reason and true and correct all these years. And I thought that maybe I was the thing that was wrong, but maybe it's my thoughts. Remember when we were in the kitchen? And I was like, babe, my brain doesn't know what the hell it's doing. Yeah. Yes. So anyway, that is like something that came up and stole. It's a new year.

And instead of trying to reinvent myself, I've been asking a simpler question. What would actually support me right now? And honestly, a big part of that answer is my home. I want my space to feel calmer, more functional, and a little more like a place that can reflect my goals and energy for this year, which is why I've been turning to Wayfair. It's truly a one-stop shop for everything your home needs this season. What surprised me most was how easy it was to find exactly what I wanted in my style and within my budget. Whether you're organizing kids' rooms, upgrading your work from home setup, tackling clutter, or just trying to make weeknight dinners easy. Wayfair really does have everything. Your home doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to support the life

you're living right now. Get organized, refreshed, and back on track this new year for way less. Head to wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W. A-Y-F-A-I-R-com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. There's a part in the journal about envy and about things that, you know, the idea that whatever we're bitter about is the thing we need to go for, which I believe with all of myself.

It's all of my bitter, bitter heart, I believe that. Yes, exactly. Exactly. The experience I have in this. Ever we're bitter about. We just have, whenever you're like, oh, that must be nice. It's like, wait, what you're saying to yourself is, that must be nice. I would like to have that nice thing.

Right? Yes. So do you know what I got really bitter about? I got really bitter about the fact that I was always having to write these things all by myself, go into my mind, which isn't always a good place to be, all alone. And all of these dudes were starting podcasts where they just got to talk to their freaking friends. I was so bitter about it. And then I was like, wait a minute.

I could be a dude who just starts a podcast and talks to my freaking friends. You guys, we can do hard things started largely because of bitterness. Of envy. I mean, it was also that I wanted to have like a place where we could have more nuanced conversations and social media because I kind of seeing the tide of social media maybe not being the best place to have any sort of conversation. but it was also envy, okay, of dudes with microphones. And then I want to tell you one other thing.

The dare to imagine really got me this time. The dare to imagine. I thought I had imagined everything up. I'm telling you, it's because it's like, it's like, it's always new. It's always freaking new. Like you're, you come back to it and you're in a different day, in a different week, in a different place, and you're imagining different things. But like after the brew ha ha from untamed, life gets really weird because so many people want you to do these things. You can do all TV shows, this, that, all these things.

But there was like, there's a part of me that wasn't feeling any of it. It just wasn't feeling any of it. And I felt stupid listening to that part of me because I'm supposed to be grateful for these things. I'm so like if you can do them, you should. And sitting down with the dare to imagine part, I was like that. I just started imagining, no, no, no, what is like my ideal? I don't have to do any of those things just because I can. I can actually, I love this crew.

I love these people. I love the real conversations that we're having. I love working with my sister and Abby. I love this little community that shows up for the world over and over and over again and shows up for each other and tells the truth in very radical and weird ways. This is a very strange community we have here. Like unusual, beautiful. Yeah.

Just beautiful. And other things are not better just because they're bigger. So it really just helped me figure out, no, no, no. Because when the world starts telling you what you should want, things can get very tricky. So it helped me ground myself back into what I really do want. And also, this journal helped me go, start going on. on TV with no makeup.

Mm-hmm. You guys, I, all my whole life, since this whole thing started and I started having to go on TV, I've always wanted to go on TV with no makeup. I don't hate makeup. I like makeup. I like makeup in my house sometimes, all by myself. I'm like, where are you going? No, because sometimes I just like it.

She's like, nowhere. Just going to the couch. But I don't like wearing makeup on TV because I feel like so many people watch TV and we watch these faces and we think we're watching real people. But we're not. We're watching people who have been in a chair for an hour and a half having things literally added to their face. When I get out of makeup chairs, I look like a completely different human being, right? So what happens is that we don't know that. We don't like consciously understand that. So then we start looking at our own faces in the mirror and we expect our faces to look like those faces on TV and we actually start feeling like shit about ourselves. Right? And so that has happened to me over time. I don't want to do it to other people. So I go to the TV show and I say,

I am going to have no makeup today. And then I get back stage and all the whirring starts. And I'm about to go on TV and they're like, would you like hair and makeup? And I'm like, I would like all the makeup. Like if you could just take pounds of makeup, to spackle me, like a Pollock painting, just like because it feels like armor.

So I go to this really big TV show and I'm like, I'm going to do it. I'm sweaty. I'm going to do it. I was promoting this journal. I'm like, I'm not promoting get untamed without an untamed naked face. So they pull me in to the makeup chair and I'm sitting there and I say the words, no thank you. I'm just going to go out there looking like I look.

Just like what faces look like. And I did it and no one died. And guess what she said when she saw herself in a picture? Because I don't watch my own things ever. She said, I like the way that I look. Did I say that? Yeah, you said I like the way that I look. You know, I didn't wear any makeup.

I'm like, baby, I know you told me the whole car right. I was sweating. I was like, is it okay? Am I allowed? There's like some part of me that as a woman still feels like I'm not doing my job. Like I'm not prepared enough. I'm not being professional. You didn't play your role.

I didn't play my role. I'm like, is it, am I like, am I? It's almost like do I feel disrespectful for not doing the whole shebang? Yeah. You know what? People spend more time sitting in the makeup. up chairs longer than they spend sitting in the actual chair on stage. Yeah.

Okay. So that's, those are the things that I'm doing. And let it burn. That was kind of like a let it burn idea. Like a let it burn that I have to go to these things and put on this other face. I am actually trying to show up in the most authentic way that I can. Just with my own heart and my own brain and my own eyeballs and my own face. It's all I can do.

It's so interesting to what you just say. I mean, it's a makeup thing, but it's also you said I would. I felt disrespectful. Like I should be trying harder. And I feel like that is, I feel like that's a thread through so much. You know, like you should, you're lucky to be here. Like, never mind that you're supposed to put in, you know, 30 more hours a week than do down the hall. Like, you should, it's disrespectful of the opportunity that you have been granted and the gratefulness you should have to question any of it.

Like just keep, keep, keep, keep, keep, you know? It's just interesting. I feel like it goes. And it happens. It's a thread through a lot of things. Every day. I mean, I was on a board call this morning and I was wearing a beanie because it was an 8 o'clock in the morning board call. And I hadn't done my hair.

And I was like, I'm going to put a beanie on. Well, one of the guys on the board call calls me out. And he's like, yeah. Yeah. He's like, oh, you must be in a cold weather place, Abby. And I said, no, I just didn't want to do my hair. just like this. And I'm like, I want to dress and present every single time the way that I want to dress and present.

I'm not there to like not piss somebody off or like follow the rules because guess what? I spent a lot of my life putting on dresses and wearing heels and girly shoes because that's what I thought I was supposed to do. And I made myself miserable. I hated myself when I did that. Now I just do and dress however I want. Okay. We're going to stop there for today, even though it makes me very sad because I loved this hour so very much. Here's what we want to ask you.

If you get a copy of Get Untamed and you are taking your own dive, your inner dive, and you're allowing me to be your inner tour guide. I'm very grateful. But would you please call in and tell us how you're feeling about it? Would you let us know if there's any questions or parts that really got to you or if you had any self-ephanies or anything came out that was beautiful or hard or interesting to you? I just want to hear. And any questions about it is great too. Yeah, any questions.

So the number is 747. 2.005307. That's 747-200-5-307. Can I, can I say it? Go ahead. Yes, you can. 747-200-5307. Good luck, everybody. I think you did the best. Thank you. I think mine was the best. Also, I still cannot believe that you did not wear makeup on that talk show. I know. So free, nobody died. I did it. Nobody died. I can do it whenever I want. to now. And it feels so freaking freeing. If half the population can walk around with their face just facing, so can I. I can also just let my face face when it wants to face. It's a beautiful thing. Thank you. All right. Listen, when life gets too hard this week and it will, deep breaths, unclench that jaw, drop your shoulders. And don't forget you can do hard things.

And come back Thursday. We come back Thursday because we're going to go back and answer all the live questions that were asked during the event that were so good. So psyched. See you then. Bye. I give you Tishmilton and Brandy Carlisle. Oh, fire. I came out the other side.

I chase desire. I made you. I got was mine and I continued to believe that Because we're adventurers and heart breaks A final destination They've stopped asking directions Into places they've made They've never been to be

We'll find We can do a heart A brand new star Sometimes Things fall I continue to believe The best people are free

And it took some time Because we're adventurers And hot Destinies We've stopped asking directions To places they've never been And to find hard adventure

Asking for been And too can do We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts. Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine.