We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - 71. Be Messy, Complicated & Afraid–and Show Up Anyway

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

Today, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda continue their conversation about Glennon’s eating disorder relapse and the Next Right Thing for their family.    CW // eating disorders To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

well hi sister and wife hello welcome back to we can do hard things we did really hard things on tuesday uh-huh talked about some light topics like relapsing and eating disorders and mental illness. And I felt like it was hard and good. And so we're going to continue that conversation a little bit. Listeners, first of all, please go back and listen to Tuesday's episode where we discussed this hard thing, which is that over the holidays, I had an eating disorder relapse. And that's an overly simplified description of what happened. So go back and listen if you are not triggered by those things. And then I just wanted to know how you two are doing and feeling about me. About what I revealed.

And about. Revealing it. About both. I just want to say, like you so kindly said in the last episode, that if you are listening and you are triggered by this eating disorder conversations, then you should skip this week's episode, including today, and come back with us next Tuesday. Because we're just speaking very candidly here today. Yeah. So how are you guys doing? I mean, listen, it takes me back to the time when we first met and I was really, I was struggling in so many ways.

really, I was struggling in so many ways. Um, and I think it was the first time that I ever had an interaction with a person that wanted all of my, what I would call, not you, all of my problems like that that said hey like this is a part of who you are and I love you because of this obviously I don't wish this on anyone you being my most important favorite person on the planet but what happens in the whole of our life, the choices we make and the life that we continue to create together, no matter what those choices are, we promise each other and we have promised each other to always begin again if we fall off. Begin again. that's right and I think that this was an opportunity for me to continue to prove that that's what we promised each other back then and you're just the fact that you want to do this publicly is not surprising because you always promise your folks, the listener, that you're not perfect, but you will be honest. And I think that that is the way to freedom because it's the shame, right, that takes us out of the game.

I just think that the way that you were so open and honest about this and the way that you want to keep talking about it. You know, one of the things that we talked about a lot early on is like, what does this do to your sobriety? What is the meaning behind all of this? And it's interesting to bring up the word sobriety because I haven't figured that out yet. When I think about the kind of slippery, the slow fade that in some ways I can kind of look back now and see over the last couple of years. Maybe, I don't know. It's hard to make sense of all of it. When I think why didn't I see it more clearly and raise my hand earlier? Why did it take getting to the point

where I was throwing up every day to, like, I know better than that, I guess, is what I think. Like, why didn't I get help earlier? And it's interesting because in sobriety, you know, sobriety can mean, sobriety means whatever the hell it means for each person, right? Sobriety is a word like god or like joy or like the success it like can only be defined by each person which is why it's ridiculous when people start to police each other about what sobriety is or what god is or whatever um i think to me it's like my sobriety is a way of life which means i'm not keeping any secrets from myself right which means I'm not keeping any secrets from myself, right? Which means I'm not actively hurting myself. So I think in my mind, I was thinking if I ask for help and admit to myself

and other people that my eating is out of control again, then, then I have to admit or say that my I've lost my sobriety. And there's this weird sobriety rule that like, we're supposed to gather days, like days, how many days you've been sober or how many years you've been sober is, is a badge of honor. That is your achievement in sobriety. It's like your validity. It's your validity. It's your worth. It's your worth. It's your bank account. In this culture of sobriety. Yes. In sobriety culture. So it's like, if I've been sober, which I would say before this, I would say I've been sober for 20 years since I found out I was pregnant with Chase when I quit all the drinking and the binging and smoking and all of that.

I was like, the cost of raising my hand and getting help was going to cost me 20 years. of raising my hand and getting help was going to cost me 20 years. Like I had to turn in my 20 year token in order to raise my hand and get help. The cost of getting my sobriety back was abandoning all of my sobriety. It was like giving up my entire bank account so that I could get help. And there's something weird about that. That's right. It's like, it feels like an old way of thinking, almost like a patriarchal, hierarchical way of thinking. Whereas like really, our success in sobriety can't just be past. It can't just be a bank account of days. It has to be,

but am I living a sober, beautiful day right now? And if I'm not, then abandon all of it. Right. Right. Because it's always about right now and today. And when I think about how weird that is, like I know better than to believe in like validity or worth by numbers or bank accounts or any of that. I think it's deeper than that. I think that each of those numbers, because I actually did it before I admitted anything. I had like 7,400 days or something.

I don't know. I don't remember what it was. It represents, it's as if each of those days is a mile and the mile is the distance between my sober valid success self and that dark weird sick self it's like you're not just separating these tokens, these days. In my heart, they represented the distance. Safety. Safety. The distance between who I was and who I am now. And the terror of needing help is the terror of saying there was never any distance. Fuck.

That's right. Jesus. That's the reason between, that is the reason you were listening on last episode. You were listening to that person on their second day sober and you felt jaded. that person on their second day sober and you felt jaded. And the reason why when you are on the platform yet again, the thing that makes you jaded and want to reject the person who's 7,000 days away from you is the same thing that gives you so much freedom when you realize like, I'm exactly that person. I'm exactly that person every single day, every single day. I'm the same exact person all the way through this person and 20 years ago. And I think it's the disassociation

with that person that gives us that jaded thing. Oh, I am different from you. Yeah. It's just like wildly blowing my mind. I know that I am the same person on some level that I was before I got sober. There's like this fear of losing that sobriety because of all of the days that I've put in between me and that. It's like I feel confident that that won't happen. But also I have to remember that I am you. I am standing with you on that landing.

And I was your friend who was calling with you on that landing every day. And I was your friend who was calling you on the second day of recovery. Yes. That was me. And that's why that was annoying me so much. Yes. You know? It's so humbling. And this is, quite frankly, it's like the most humbling thing. Even though this is your story, this is also my story.

I hope you don't hear me saying that. I'm not saying collecting days of sobriety is bullshit. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying for me, what I realized was that accumulation was sort of an illusion. And also there's some kind of for me i need a better system of collecting things that then i have to pay if i need help like that doesn't feel like helpful to me because well all i care about is this day that i'm sober so i want to and sober meaning that I'm not hurting myself, that I'm not lying to myself and I'm not hurting myself. And, you know, it's scary for anybody. And I talked to you about this the first day. It's scary for me as someone who I want, as someone who people trust and look to.

as someone who people trust and look to. Like, it makes me feel like, well, now they're all gonna think I'm a fraud or that I'm... This is who you've been telling people you are, though, all along. Yeah. I'm not saying it makes super sense. I'm just saying that I love that I am someone who has dealt, who deals with depression and anxiety and eating disorders and that people who also suffer from those things can look at me and be like, look, she's doing it. And so it scares me to think that I could be letting those people down.

But then I think, but this is what it looks like to be doing it. Be messy and complicated and show up anyway. I mean, that's exactly what you've always been doing. The course of true love doesn't always run smooth. She got really like upset. And then I got super upset and we were like screaming at each other. I'm Dr. Laurie Santos. And in a special Valentine's Day season of my podcast, The Happiness Lab, we'll explore the science of making our intimate relationships more harmonious.

This is like the worst possible way to spend a relaxing vacation. Journalist Charles Duhigg will help us all become super communicators. Everyone knows that experience, right? When you've had a great conversation and you just feel like you're on cloud nine afterwards. And we'll hear from husband and wife relationship experts, the Gottmans. I turned the phone off. You didn't turn it off. On why we should argue better. I did, yeah. Uh-uh. Listen to The Happiness Lab wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, what is the thing, though?

Because part of it has to have been a perfect storm, right? You've always been who you are. You've always dealt with this. those days where you made the first decision or compulsion or couldn't resist anymore taking that first step down the stairs from the landing. Like what was it about those? Because I'm not trying to do the thing where I'm like, Mr. Fixer upper, but like there are factors that we're kind of holding at bay at all times. We're managing, we're holding at bay. And then there are some times where we're like the dam has broken. We can't do it anymore.

So when you look back at that particular period, like what is the perfect storm of elements that we're making that. The whys. What are the wise i mean okay i i will talk to you about what they could be like things we've been talking about but like i also know that anybody with this sort of thing knows that you just kind of make up narratives about it and it could be that and it could be i'll be horse shit like i don't know is the answer I don't know but I have some ideas of the whys I mean I think the first why is that I have a have had a serious eating disorder since I was 10 years old and that that is a mental illness that goes along

with my depression anxiety and that at times that's up. Like, I think that's a thing. I think that the out of control state of the world is hard for everybody. And for some people that with mental challenges you're always trying to find some stable ground and that is how you kind of find yourself is you just try to find some some solid ground and when that ground is it's never real but when it's so impossible to pretend it's real. When the illusion of stability is not present. Yes. Yeah. Then you, it becomes hard to find a place to stand by that more specifically. I just mean that the breakdown of health and the breakdown of feeling like there are any real leaders and

the breakdown of guidance and, you know, schools and all of it and trying to be, do any of it with any bit of dignity or hope or stability. I think that trying to deal with an eating disorder and mental illness while being such a public person is tricky. I think in some ways it's made it more beautiful and helpful. And I think in other ways it makes it more challenging. Um, I think that the stuff that's gone on with our family of origin recently with bringing up old patterns from when we were little with our family um i think if you if we needed to look at a perfect storm for why it all came up at the end of this the year um our everybody was in town so we were back in our little family of origin dynamic the elephant elephants in the room with what we had been talking about, but nothing feeling resolved.

my writing partner for The Untamed Show, and in trying to get even more honest with talking a lot about being a mentally ill little one, about being a sick 10-year-old, 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old. And when I think about how I felt after each of those calls, which were like an hour and a half, two hour Zoom calls, I felt very tired and sad after those. So perhaps that matched with then leaving those meetings and going into the family dynamic where I felt like things were unresolved and then feeling 10 years old again. You know? But it's like, isn't it? It's so hard to like go, even if you have a beautiful family,

the family of origin shit is so heavy. And it's like, you can feel like you have so much distance. You have 7,000 days of sobriety. You are a grownup. You have all of your strategies and boundaries and whatever. And then you get back with your family and you feel in good and terrible ways like you're a kid again who can't protect themselves or like... Well, everyone plays their roles they've already played. So it doesn't matter what you've become or who you are now, the role and the person you are in your family that you've created.

Everyone just defaults straight back to the role that they've always played in their original family unit. So it's like this ill-fitting, strange persona you put on just because that's what, that's how families work is that everyone has their role and you did it for 18 years and you go back and it's like, you walk in the door, put on your suit, put on your, put on your family role. Everyone do their thing. This is why people are all different outside of their family of origin. It's because they don't have to put on that role. You know what really freaked me out, which I haven't even, I'm just like on the periphery of this thought, which was I only thought of this like two nights ago. And I was thinking, isn't this interesting? Like you're feeling that

everything was unresolved. The dynamics we've brought up that, that whatever it's too much chaos and it's undefinable and it, nobody can figure it out. So I'll just go back to my role, which then gives everybody in the family, their role. It's like a whole, is that making any sense? Like, don't worry about it. Are you recreating exactly the coping mechanism that you did before? It's like, I pointed all this stuff out, but that didn't work. So nevermind. I'll just be the sick one. I'll be the weak one. I don't know. But the difference is, and this is so hard because so much of all we are from our childhood becomes who we are and becomes we're either building on or recovering from or trying to change forever. So that the only difference between an adult and a child is that like you are in your own ecosystem.

You have to be responsible for yourself now because you literally are. You couldn't be responsible for yourself then because you weren't. I think that's a real issue. go on and on and on because there's justification for everyone because life has been so hard to continue doing the thing that hurt us with very, very reasonable and validating reasons to be unhealthy for the rest of our lives. Every person has a blank check to do that. But like at what point, and I'm not trying to say bootstrap. That's the opposite of what I'm saying. I really don't know at what point it becomes our own recreation of those things. recreation of those things like we are the people our families created until we're not and like that has to be like us somehow yes stepping into that and that's what I've been

doing like that's my entire life is about that. We've talked about this so much. It's like this house is like the truer, more beautiful world for me. Is my family and my house and like the way we do things and the way people treat each other and the way. What we're teaching our children. There are no lies. Like it's not perfect for God's sake. Even with me and Craig and like we don't, you know, I don't think Craig always likes me, but he trusts me. Yes.

Like we, and so, and that's what I've been doing. Like building this life that where I can, when I see a toxin, when I see something that isn't real enough or true enough, that's it. It's out. And then. It's different with family. And then when our family of origin comes in and when I'm talking about like people, other people, friends, whoever, no, fuck you.

Like out. Goodbye. This is our place. Like out. Goodbye. This is our place. And the family of origin place is the only situation where I don't feel like I can do anything about it. You and I were talking yesterday. We're on this walk.

We're like, I just want to be less affected by all of it. Yes. Our dream for ourselves with our families of origin. I don't want to be annoyed by it. It was like we were aliens. We're like, how do we love our family and let them be who they are? I'm not trying to be affected by it, sister.

I'm not trying to like not strap myself by bootstraps or whatever that saying is. I am a person who knows how to forge my life. I've been doing it. That's what I do. But it's like a kryptonite to me. What do you feel, Sissy? Like, what are you thinking about all of this?

I have so many thoughts. do you feel, Sissy? Like, what are you thinking about all of this? I have so many thoughts. I think we underestimate the degradation of all of our resources and coping mechanisms over the last two years. If your resistance is normally at a nine to the way that life beats the shit out of us, and you have gradually and gradually and gradually gone down to a two. Something that never would have tipped a nine is going to tip a two. And I just, I think that a lot of us are dealing with that right now at varying levels. I think the other thought I have is, you know, it's just interesting that kind of pervasive and insidious way that eating disorders show up. Because when you're saying, you know, I can smell a toxin and call it out and sniff it out.

Why is the actual eating disorder impervious to that lens? Because theoretically, if that were true, like when there's bullshit, I call it out. I do not allow it. Unless it's inside me. Right. Exactly. Like theoretically, it could be like, okay, I have the compulsion to do this right now.

I know that that is toxic horseshit, but like it doesn't work for that. I don't know the answer. Our desire to live in these truthiest places push us towards the grossest indignities. It's so good. And it's, it's, it's the, it's the insanity of mental illness. Yeah. It's like logic does not permeate. It's never been able to,

to talk me out of depression. It's never been able to talk me out of anxiety. It's never been able to talk my intelligence, which is high, my wisdom, my judgment, discernment. None of those things have ever permeated depression, anxiety, or eating disorder. It's maddening. It's absolutely maddening. Also, I did think of another thing just this morning before we were getting. God, I get so excited when you say I thought of another thing and also terrified because we haven't talked about it. Like when I think about this self that I felt like I was honoring by letting her speak today, all the weirdness, even if like people think it's weird or call me crazy or whatever. It felt like she was, you know, like dusting off her or whatever, that's like getting ready to be able to speak.

And then I was thinking, when does she ever get to speak anymore? To be able to speak. And then I was thinking. When does she ever get to speak anymore? Like the wild. Swirly. Sparkly. Dark.

Indigo. Purple. Self. And then I was thinking. I'm not writing anymore. Much. I haven't written. For.

Really written. For. A couple years. A years a year so that's interesting and then I was thinking because that self that I write with is that self I don't give a fuck if people think it's weird or like that's when she comes out to play and she's like oh no this is what's really well you're all acting out there like this is what she's thinking right so and then I thought I don't want to write right now words don't are don't feel true enough to me right now. And so I started thinking about art. And this is just like the very beginning of something. But I want to like do something that's artistic,

but that is not writing. I don't know what it is. Is it like- Are we getting a Glennon Doyle album? Collaging. No, no. I'm so sad that I don't know how to sing or make music. I feel like I would be a good musician if I had any talent.

I do, but it's something like it's, it's, do you know what it is? It's like the first, it's the first step, the beginner's mind. Ah,

like I wouldn't be surprised if I'm, I'm like freaking making a mosaic or like painting. I don't know. What about poetry? I need to do something weird. Yeah. Poetry maybe. You know, I've always wanted.

Yes. It's like a weird self. Like I have a weird self and I don't feel like my weird self. Is getting much attention. Is getting out. Yeah. And sometimes if a weird self doesn't get out, the weird self gets dark. Like the weird self is like, you know, like Lizzie used to say that she has a self that's like a border collie.

And if she doesn't give it a job, it just destroys the house. Like if it's not being constructive, it gets destructive. And there's something there, right? That's right. Like ignore me at your own peril. I invite you to. Right. I invite you to.

And then you find yourself over the toilet. Maybe like the writing bit when you are in the writing mode, like that's a way of shepherding your own inner border collie. Yeah. The writing is too heavy for me right now. Like I don't want to do that. It doesn't feel warm to me right now. So I want to do something that feels like honoring of that wild, weird self that's lighter. So anyway, that's where I am. I haven't figured it out yet. When you said, Sissy, in the last one, because you probably feel, if I were my sister right now,

I'm thinking all this talk about weird, wild, purpley, swirly selves is great, but you probably like, how the hell are you going to get better? Do you feel worried about like logistics at all? Oh, you know me. Never worried about logistics. Do you have a spreadsheet yet for me? I felt so sad when I found out that all this was going on while we were there. Because

of course I have this, you know, I know, and I'm not looking for you to be like, no, this isn't true. But I know that in the perfect storm of 30 elements that led to this, having two young chaotic kids in your house for two weeks are a further element of that kind of lack of predictability, lack of structure, all of it that like, you know, it's all straw and camels at that point. And so I felt badly about that. And then I also felt like, oh man, I was there and we're supposed to be there for each other. And we're supposed to be like sharing the important things all the time. like sharing the important things all the time. And we weren't even talking about any of this.

And so what's the point of being there if we can't actually be there for each other? And then I did notice, remember I kept being like a little weird and kept like checking in and being like, what's, I'm feeling strange, you know? And then I wonder if I really was picking up on some like energetic vibe. I mean, I remember sitting on the couch with you and you'd be like, are you, is everything okay? And do you remember a total vacancy? Like, I just remember being like, I have no idea. It was a couch Cameron and Katie moment.

Just being like, everything's fine. Like, everything's fine. Like, not even knowing. It was just a get through the moment, get through the moment. I mean, what were we going to do? Have like a deep. I think that's one way to look at it. And all that is true. The other way to look at it is right after that after two years of

swirly slide fading is when I said I need when I finally landed when I nailed the landing right when I was like help I need help I need help I need help right nailed the landing, arms up. Like, you know, probably not being able to say anything true during that week is what allowed me to figure out that I needed to change directions. And in terms of like what's next, I know that there will have to be one thing I know for sure when you begin again is that after a little while in the landing you have to start including people who have more more of a clue than you do because experts I think that's a good idea I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. So I do want to tell you that I, Abby took me to this acupuncturist. Like that, this is the first thing I was like, I'm not doing anything. I'm not ready to do anything. I'm not ready to go anywhere. I will know when it's time. She's like, will you please just go to this acupuncturist with me? So I walk into this precious acupuncturist and she's like, asked me to write down what my problem areas are. And you're like, do you have any loose leaf?

Sister, I wrote down depression, anxiety, bulimia, eating disorders, mental illness, fatigue, anxiety. Like this was my list. She looks at me, she oh okay well we have a lot to do together then she's amazing and halfway through the thing she's like I'm just really thank you for I couldn't even speak I was still in my I didn't say any words but but she said some really, when you're in on the landing or just about to creep up on step one, anything that anyone says sounds like utter magic to you for real. That's kind of like an amazing part of it. You can know this shit for 20 years and it sounds so fresh and new and like the exact key you needed to unlock the rest of your day like so i think that i am

going to find the proper the teachers therapists the teachers that i need i don't know who they are yet but and truly we've moved to a new place and we don't know so we're we're doing real um real research and trying to find the right people for you and and we're in LA so I know for sure as hell that there's a lot of mental health professionals here but I do just want you to know and feel sissy that we're I'm not always I'm not just saying that mosaic making is going to save me. I also know that there will be experts involved and a real path. And let me just say, sissy, I know how you're feeling in some ways and it's not our fault. It's not our fault that we didn't know. And it's not your fault that you were here. It's not my fault that I was here.

I think that that's a really important thing for anybody out there who's dealing with a partner or a friend or a sister or a mother or somebody who's going through something like this. So, honey, I do have one question before we end here. I know that you are thinking about, you're on that landing and you're thinking about taking that first step. What are some of the things that you're feeling most nervous about? So we're recording this today. And when the pod squad is hearing it right now, I will have already talked to the kids. I haven't talked to the kids about this yet. And that is what I am most scared about because I don't want to scare them. So I don't exactly know what I'm going to say, like what words I'm going to say, but I really, really believe in truth.

Like I don't just believe in it because it's the right thing or because people should do it or because truth is right and lies are wrong. That's not what I mean. Like I believe in the power of the truth to make things better than they've ever been before. I believe in the truth like it's a tool, like it's the best possible tool you can use to build whatever you're trying to build next.

And so I guess I feel like I'm willing to go through that conversation, which might scare the kids a little bit. Knowing that in the long run, it will be what they need to get through their hard times that like they will never forget what it looks like to believe in the power of beginning again right that they will have a model for what it looks like to like be in a place where you really could just keep pretending that you have it all together and everybody even believes you have it all together and actually people are even like looking to you as telling them how to have it all together and still be like, no, what matters is none of that. What matters is not that it looks like I'm okay, but that I actually am okay. So I feel scared about that, but I feel more sure about the power of truth than I feel scared about scaring them. That's good. I don't feel nervous about telling them at all.

Really? You have raised these beautiful children to hear truth. They will hear your truth. And you will teach them to tell the truth. They will hear your truth and you will teach them to tell the truth. So it doesn't matter what the content is. Because at the end of the day, they're all human beings. I think that we worry we have to protect them from all of the swirly, weird humanness that we experience, but we forget that that is what they are. They're going through it too.

And so if we don't reflect it to them, they will have shame about it. They aren't made up of the same exact stuff we are made up of. That's right. So when we hide that part of ourselves from them, we're not doing them any favors, right? You're showing them how to manage their purple swirly instead of trying to convince them

you're perfect and you don't have it. And you're showing them not that like truth is this destination and arrival and we spend the rest of our lives just being proud that we've arrived here. You're showing them that truth is the path. Like being honest at every step is the path where you end up having the life that you can have comfort in and peace in. And they're people. They're going to have people whether it's themselves

or their friends or their partners that are going to be dealing with something very similar and you know chase is in college our girls are in high school and middle school. Like this is not something that they've never heard of. Right. And this will help them in some way, shape or form. It will. It's just deciding once again to not do the style of parenting where you're just like, you're safe. Everything's safe.

Everything's perfect. You're fine. We're all fine. We're all perfect. safe. Everything's safe. Everything's perfect. You're fine. We're all fine. We're all perfect. It's like, I actually am going to disagree a little bit because I don't think sharing this information tells somebody that they're not safe. It just says, Hey, here is the real world. It's like, I'm going to share this information with you and I'm going to keep you as safe as I possibly can. I don't think.

And safe is just bullshit. Yeah. And it's also like, let's be honest, kids are really freaking smart. And they have probably picked up on something and they're probably worried about something. And you sharing your truth is going to be at the end of the day reassuring to them because it's something that you're so not scared of ruining you or your family that you're sharing it with them. That is by definition disarming of it. I think that's kind of what I mean by trusting the truth too. It's like

in so many of our relationships and our families, we have these situations that we think if we don't speak them, they're not affecting everyone. And then our children feel it because they are energetic human beings and they feel something in the air and then they, nobody is acknowledging it with words. And so they feel like they stopped trusting their own instincts. They feel like, oh, I guess I'm just strong. I guess there's something wrong with me. And so I'm the only one feeling this. I'm the only one feeling this. I'm too sensitive. I'm yeah. Right. And so putting words to what is really going on is a way of comforting everyone. It's like, no, no, no. What everyone is feeling is real.

And here's what it is. And it's not you. And it's what we all probably needed as kids. Yeah. And God forbid. I mean, I don't think this is true, but true, but God forbid they, somebody heard. Or knows. Or knows, you know, and it's like, they're harboring that. So.

Family secrets, man. No good. It's real. It's a doozy. And you are fucking amazing. I just want to keep knowing you. And I want to know all of this. This is, this is going to make our family better. It will. I know it. And I just thought of the reason why it's so going to be stronger and better for your family is the same reason why I think you feel so confident sharing it with the world right now, which is that you are so confident that this isn't shaking fundamentally anything you are or anything like for your family, for example, your perfection is not what makes your family strong. Perfection is not what makes your family strong.

It's your willingness to lean in to uncomfortable things, to hard things that are the things that make your family as close to perfect as you can make it. And the same is true for you and the entirety of your work. I think it will be evidence of who you have always been and exactly the kind of family you're trying to make by being honest about what you're going through. That's right. Damn. To all of you listening, we love you so much I hope that this is proof of how much we love you and trust you and just you know

this is a time where it's probably a good idea to check in with all of ourselves just our strong friends and our steady people in our lives. It's just a time when the destabilization of the world can make us all feel a little lost and untethered. And helping tether each other down is probably a good thing to do this week.

And telling somebody the truth of how we're doing is probably a good thing this week. It is a hard thing to show ourselves to somebody, but we can do hard things. I'm going to speak for the pod squad here. Thank you, Lennon. Oh, babe. I love you. I love you, too. I love. Oh, babe. I love you. I love you too. I love you, sissy.

I love you, sister. I love you. Sister, I love you. I'll see you back here next week. Bye. We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

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