We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Abby’s First Love, G Restarts Recovery, and Amanda Tries Meds: Live Event

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

Over 15,000 Pod Squaders joined live to celebrate One Year of the Pod and discuss: 1. Why Amanda started taking meds, Glennon keeps taking meds–and why Abby might consider taking meds :) 2. The brilliant preemptive post mortem strategy to help you emotionally recover from any gathering.  3. Your frequently asked question of Abby: How she tracked down her first love connection at the Macaroni Grill. 4. The pie chart of showing up–and why it’s rarely ever 100%.  5. Glennon shares her first steps up from the “landing” of her eating disorder relapse.  CW // eating disorders discussion To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or paid subscription starting at $12.99 per month. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things Love Bugs. Today is a big day because we are sharing with you our live podcast recording

in celebration of We Can Do Hard Things one year anniversary. We are so grateful to everyone who showed up and brought their friends. It was a really, really special night for Abby and sister and me. I think you'll hear my emotions take me by surprise at the top. Can you believe it's been one year together? This podcast has truly

become a great joy of our lives. And it is our hope that we continue to do more live recordings in the future together with you. So let us know what you think. And we know a lot of you missed the live event. We are so sorry about that, but we have an idea for you. Sign up for our newsletter. We don't send a lot of them out, but every time we're doing a live event, we send a newsletter out in advance so that you don't miss it.

So if you don't want to miss it, sign up for our newsletter. You can do that at the link in bio on my social media on Instagram, or just go to glendendoyle.com and you can sign up for the newsletter there so you don't miss our upcoming We Can Do Hard Things live events.

For now, let's jump right in. Hello everybody! We've made it. We're doing it. They're here. Am I here? You're here? I'm here. Abby's here. I think like 15,000 of our friends are here. This is so exciting. I had this whole thing planned to say in the beginning. And then Pod Squad, you should know that we have spent the last 15 minutes just reading the chat, reading all of you saying that you showed up here because you show up each week and encouraging each other and loving on each other. And it is really deeply moving. I told Abby I am having,

I don't know, there's not a lot of time for you really feel the beauty and importance of something, and I really just felt it. Can I, can I tattle on you for a second? What about what? That you would be a difficult teammate of mine to enter a big event, a big game. Why? Because you just came up to me and said,

feel how sweaty my hands are. And like your pregame, your pregame self is not a pregame self that I would wanna like go try and win Olympic gold medal with. No, I mean, it's not. Well, thank God. It's like all of the emotions that you're supposed to like tamper down and basically hide

to go do a big thing. She can't hide. So folks, we are sitting here in Glennon sweat. If you guys can see, I'm okay. I'm dripping, dripping with sweat. I think that sweat for me is just a signal. It's like sacred. It's like a signal of something important. You can turn anything into a freaking beautiful thing sweat. That'sism. I love it. I love it. And we should call out that poor Abby is a little under the weather. Yeah. Her her voice sounds extra extra. Octave. Socy. Socy. Extra saucy and an Octave. So. But we're one year old. We are one year old.

We know. What? We have begun talking and walking. Yes, we are one year old. We have begun talking and walking. Yes, we are one year old. First of all, I just want to say, thank you to all of you for being this. For being this, I don't know this project that we have loved so much over the last year. I have been doing some form of, I don't know, public ideeing for 15 years.

And I have never cared so much or been so grateful for or felt like anything that I've ever done besides togetherizing, but it has been as important to me. I feel nervous to say this because I don't think you're supposed to say this, but I feel like it's really important. Every time one of these conversations ends and I hear people talking about the person

who they've just met and the idea that just got put out into the world, it feels like, wow, it's like this ripple that's actually doing something important into the world, it feels like, wow, it's like this ripple that's actually doing something important in the world. Yeah. Yeah. For us, too, what I hear people saying about it is what I feel like it's done for me personally, too, as just a person in the pod squad and thinking about things. And so it's very important to me too, as a fellow pod sweater.

I was very nervous before we were coming on here, very nervous, and I was reading the chat. And then, I was reading it and everything they were saying, I was like, I wanna get there. It's like all our friends are over there. I know, I'm gonna fill us the button. That's what, before we go on, Pod Squad, when I was talking about how much I was sweating

and how I was about to have a heart attack my sister said, okay, these are our friends. Okay, they want to listen to us. It's not like we're going to pitch on Shark Tank. These are our friends. Yeah. There's 15,464 of you who are watching right now, which is so amazing.

And I just also want to say thank you to Odyssey and Kate and 13 who are sponsoring this live event. And then all of the people who are a part of creating this podcast behind the scenes, Dina, Alison, Lauren, Dina, Alison and Lauren, Dina, Alison and Lauren. I mean, that's one of the things. That's one of the reasons I love this so much. Our friend Alex was over, put a pin in that we have a friend. I'm going to tell you about it later.

And we were talking about this podcast and she said, do you believe that this is what the world has arranged for you, that you get to do this thing where you're talking about ideas that you love and light you up and you get to do it with the two people who make you feel most safe on either side of you and then you get to do it with these women, Deena Alice and Lauren who you deeply respect and love and are the people you most want to talk to every single day. Anyway, just thanks. Everything sucks so I mean, everything sucks so often. And so it's just really important sometimes to notice what doesn't suck.

And to me, this is that I'm very all of our poem. Yeah, it's a mirror. It's what doesn't suck. That's my poetry for the day. Notice what doesn't suck in the midst of noting everything that does. All right, so one of the things we decided to do today is sometimes we bring up things about our lives in an episode, right? And then like sometimes it can be a dramatic thing or a big thing, but then the next week

we're like, we want to talk about something else. And then we don't give an update about that thing, which then the next week we're like, we want to talk about something else. And then we don't give an update about that thing, which judging by the people who stopped me on my walks is troublesome occasionally. People want to know how things are going and that makes us feel actually quite loved. So we thought we could start with kind of general life updates, like how we are for real. Like how are you for real? So I wish I could ask all of you, although I did see one person right,

I've been chasing pink bunnies all damn day and I'm so excited to get here for the steak. Oh, forget it with all the poets in the chat. I know. Sister Amanda, yes. Can you tell us how you are for real? How am I for real? Well, I do have a little update of sorts. Some of you might know me from things such as overwhelm and general

ragey mess and things such as this. I do have a little update from you and that is that I started for the first time in my life two medications and antidepressant and an anti-anxiety. two medications, an antidepressant and an anti-anxiety. It's the generic of lexapro and the generic of well-butron is what I'm on. And it is the first time. When I first got sober, I took the well-butron for a few weeks, but that wasn't exactly like a controlled experiment because so much was upside down

that I couldn't tell if anything was happening. So I went off. And that was two and a half years ago, but a few months ago, I started them and it happened because it was the second appointment I had had with my doctor in which I demanded to have my hormone levels checked to confirm that I am obviously perimenopausle because that is the only possible explanation for my

vortex of rage and overwhelm. And she had to deliver for the second time in a year, the tragic news that I was in fact, not Perryman Apostle. It's like that quote that's like before it's a little change on that quote. It's like before you decide your impairment Apostle, make sure you're not just in fact an asshole. Exactly, right? Exactly. Which I thought was what she was saying when I told her all my symptoms that she said you're not that. But then she says you're not impairment a puzzle, but I have you ever considered mental health medication, which I was like good call because obviously

people don't continue to show up and demand these tests. And maybe they're just fine. And so I thought about it. And at first, I just always thought that this is just what life was like, this chronic state of being utterly freaking unmanageable. I felt like I was walking around like one of those like resistance bands. But like fully stretched out resistance band that like at any time would just be subject to like snap and potentially hurt myself for someone else.

So you good times. Yeah, so I thought to myself, like, what if how I've always felt isn't how I always have to feel? Mm. And that maybe it's possible to feel better than I feel. And so I did start the meds and as of like a week ago, I realized they might be working a little bit. I mean, I'm nervous to get excited,

but I feel like I'm still as intolerable to myself and others as I've always been, but only like 99% of my usual level of intolerable, which I guess that 1% is significant because I feel way less miserable. So that's a very, that's an exciting thing. I mean, it's been a week. Right. Jerry's still out. A lot of people have conflicted feelings. You know, I don't. I worship my medication. But do you have conflicted feelings? I don't have the same conflict that I hear a lot of people having.

I hear a lot of people talk about, you know, I feel like I'm weak or I'm feeling or I wish I could feel this way without medication. And I don't have that conflict at all. Like if I could take a drug that would allow me to speed read or color my roots with less frequency or clean on my attic, I would take all of those drugs immediately and without hesitation. I'm not worried about that part of it. I think my conflict has to do with

this good news and bad news about the misery, piece of it because I feel like, what if then I ignore something that I should be miserable about? Yeah, I get that. Recently, with my therapist, we were grappling with trying to figure out for like the 100th session,

why in the world I'm so bothered by so many things that seemingly have only become struggles for me in the last, um, wait for it two and a half years. Okay. So I am a very smart person. And I should be thoroughly embarrassed about the amount of sessions that we spent trying to figure out why is everything suddenly making me absolutely insane. And then recently we were in a session and she, I just casually mentioned to her like, oh, well, when I stopped drinking two and a half years ago, and she was like, come again? Like, you did what when? Like, we've been trying to figure this out for so long, and that's when I realized that, oh, right.

I had been drinking to take the edge off for years, and then suddenly I was just all edge all the time. Right. And everything makes me want to scream into my pillow or hit someone. Yeah. So, so I think there's that part of me that does believe that you have to be really miserable to change things that need to be changed. And so good news, bad news. Like, yeah, I'm less miserable, but I also have this little worry that taking the edge off with meds might make me mischange

that I need. Interesting. So having my life. Yeah. But also that worry just might show that I'm an ideal candidate for continuing to take anti-anxiety since I'm having anxiety that I'm going to miss out the of the anxiety that I need. Yeah. I don't know. Thank you for sharing that. It's really brave and awesome. You know, a lot of people won't share about their medication and for all different reasons. I think it's cool that you did.

It's interesting, because in a weird way, it feels familiar. It's like I thought when I quit drinking, that like the drinking was my problem. And then when I quit drinking, that like the drinking was my problem. And then when I quit drinking, I realized that the drinking was just my bad solution to my problem, which was anxiety and depression. Yeah. It for sure runs in our family.

And the drinking was like self-medicating. The problem. But what I wonder is if you're going to find out that your problem, your misery, could be mental health stuff. It might not be your life. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, yes, I do. Your problem might be this condition that makes you hate your life. That's what I wonder. Like when I think about people in our family or in our, you know, people in other generations who didn't, people didn't have access to mental health care

and drugs and all of it. If you have a mental health problem and you don't have access to working on it, you of course just think your life is terrible. Yeah. When it's really the way your mind is perceiving your life because of stuff going on. Right, and it's also even worse than that

because you know intellectually your life isn't terrible. So you're like, I'm just the kind of wretched asshole that can't enjoy what is clearly a beautiful life. So you don't believe it on your character. It's your character. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, I have a good life. And I just your character. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. I have a good life. I just kind of. And I just hate it. So I'm a complete. Yeah. I'm in jerk. Well, I'm excited.

I'm proud of you for trying and not sticking with the martyrdom. You know, yeah. That's right. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and I'm someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing

on my new podcast, classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, girl, why not doing that anymore? You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

What about you, babe? Well, I think one of the things about this year that has blown my mind is I didn't know the three of us could actually get closer. I think that the fact that we've been, in many ways, forced to communicate about really, really intense, personal, universal stuff has totally transformed the three of our relationship.

You know, I've witnessed you sister get way more open and honest about your life and Glennon, like you walking through certain things in this past year has just been unreal and I think it's made me feel I think more attachment to both of you in a lot of ways. And also it's mind-boggling because you, we just do this every couple of days in our own homes and then it goes out to those who are listening, the millions of listeners. And it just boggles my mind that something that can feel so personal to us can also be universal in some ways. And I think the most important thing that has happened to me this year, in some ways. And I think the most important thing that has happened to me this year, that I didn't think it was going to ever happen is the purpose that this podcast has given me.

I played soccer for so many years and I really loved representing this country. I really loved looking up into the stands and seeing little girls and boys cheering for us, I felt like I had real purpose. It was instilled in this thing that I just happened to be really good at, like truly. I felt so lucky, felt like my life was completely aligned. Everything was, for the most part, was wonderful in that way.

And I just worried that I would never be able to have that same similar kind of purpose for the rest of my working life. I mean, having a family and being married to you is obviously purpose driven, but it's, those are very different than the working world. And I want to have my own purpose in that way. And so now when I'm out in the road, when I'm walking, whenever people don't come up to me and say, hey, I'm such a huge fan, you know, all those soccer games and the wins and

the medals and the awards, it's like, oh my gosh, your podcasts. 100% of the time now. And I don't know. I think that this is absolutely going to more people than women's soccer did when I played back in the day. But this kind of purpose has made me feel rooted in a way that I missed from my playing days. And it makes me feel like that purpose was leading me to this purpose. I remember when you, I was just thinking about when you went out to dinner with Kara recently. Yeah.

And the person came up to you at dinner. Yes. And then what they said and then what Kara said. Yeah, so one of the the waiters came up to me and he said, you know what, I just wanted to thank you. Your podcast has really helped my family deal with my sobriety. I'm two years sober and my mom listens to you all his podcast every week.

And you've given her language and an understanding and a way of talking about sobriety that doesn't feel so mysterious or shameful or you've really helped me process my sobriety with my family. And he walks away, care Cara, my friend looks at me, and she's like, what does that feel like? And she was her friend from soccer.

Yeah. And then she said, how does it feel to have that soccer not even be your most important word? Yeah, it's just, it's so, it's so amazing. I think it is really very special, and it's not ever lost on us. We walk around every every few hours and we're like, I can't believe that we get to work with each other like this. And we love it, you know. Yeah. Very cool. And one of the coolest things that I think happened this year is our life has changed for you because of your experience

in bathrooms. This is when I feel like my theory of just say it and tell it and let people hear it and let them love you about it. We'll fix everything. Yes. Was proven to you. Tell the pod squad. Okay, so episode 20, when I was talking about the public restroom situation that I find myself in every time, I go into women's restroom and people always mistake me for being a dude and they always ask me like,

there's always like that. I can tell the surprise like and do they think they've made the mistake or and it makes me feel almost every time makes me feel so horrible. Yeah it's rough it's really bad it's she'll she'll hold it for I mean it's like she will not in an air plane because because airplane bathrooms are non-gendered. Right. Right. So anyways, long story short, I share this on the pod squad and reading some of the comments from some of the folks who share this experience with me has completely changed my interactions

with public restrooms. Now, I'm like, hey, I'm not the only one that this is happening to. That makes me feel more powerful and walking into it. And you know what, if somebody is mistaken, then they're mistaken. That's their problem, not mine. I don't have to like hire my voice, because that was always like a thing. Like, she make this podcast isn't, isn't ever going to be just us going outward, right? It's always, we're reading all the comments and, and hearing and reading the response from some of those who might present in similar ways that I present outwardly, completely helped me resolve in so many ways those public

restroom incidents that happen. It's so cool because it's a big deal. It's like nothing changed. Like I was like what looks different to her. Nothing. Experience is still exactly the same. Reaction's still exactly the same, but she's like walking into the bathroom. It's fine and it's just knowing she's not alone. That's right. I'm less alone. It's belonging because the rejection of the bathroom is like, you don't belong here. You don't fit. And then the hearing all of the people say, me to me too, is, oh, you fit here. Like there is a fit. There is a belonging that was this other thing was trying to say you would never have, you know. Yes. Honey, what about you? I think that probably the one that people

would maybe want to hear about with me is several episodes ago. I shared that around the holidays. I had a relapse with my eating disorder. So for any newbies, trigger warning for eating disorder discussion. I have struggled with bulimia since I was 10 years old and got sober from bulimia when I got pregnant with my son who is now 19. But still, you know, food is weird and hard and it's much different than booze in that, booze can be avoided. And food is something I still have to deal with all the time.

And so it has always been a struggle really. And then, but I've been able to behaviorally control it, even if my brain was weird about it. And then around the holidays, I lost the ability to behaviorally control it. So we talked about that. It was really important to me to talk about it. Very important. And it wasn't just about service. I felt like I was standing up for little weird me. She gets to talk too. I'm not sure what her deal is all the time. So I'm not be completely coherent, but she gets to speak too because part of this weird

movement is because of her. Right? So that's kind of like one of those weird things that when we're gonna go off this, I'm gonna be like, what was that about that thing that I said there? But that totally makes sense to me. It does to me. It's not like you're, you only bring the friend out to go to the party that's shiny and cute and you know everyone will laugh at their jokes. You're like, I'm bringing my weird ass awkward friend with me because she is loyal. And I don't care if you get her not coming with me. Yes, like that. Or when she's sad, when we talk about family or friends

and everyone's like, somebody goes through a hard time and then we're only happy and talk about her when she's better. Oh, she's great now, she's fine. But like, what about when she was weird and down and like, why don't we talk about that time? That's like when we need people to, you know, around more. Yeah, you brought your little weird friend out.

For the weird self, my little weird self. And that's fine. Got to talk on that episode. Anyway, so the way I described it was that I was on the landing which meant that we had gone for a walk and there was a large staircase and I felt like I was gonna have to start climbing again back to back

to health, back to recovery, back to whatever this next part of my mental health journey was calling me towards, but I was too tired to do anything about it yet. I didn't know what to do next. And so I just decided that's fine. The telling the truth about it is enough. It's like ground zero. I'm just going to wait there and await further instructions from whom do these instructions come. I don't know. Whatever you

want to call it. God, spirit, yourself. I don't know. Sometimes the next thing just shows itself. So the problem wasn't enough. I just did on that landing off for months. Like I went, I did nothing. Everyone talks of crosswords on this landing. Yeah, my mom would be like, so are we gonna like our, and I don't know, I'm just still on the landing. Still knowing I'm screwed and doing nothing about it. But not going back down either, right? And then we actually went away for a few days with the

girls for their spring break. And we were at this place that had this little teeny yoga class in the morning. And I hadn't done it forever. And then it was free. So I went, it's like a service they were giving. And Abby came with me the first couple mornings and then I started going the last two mornings by myself. And I don't talk about yoga a lot because I get nervous about the appropriation of it at all and all the night. I don't know really how to talk about it. But there is something that's really important for me there. I came home and I signed up at this little teeny local yoga studio and started going and I had this one morning where I was sitting really close

because the room was smushy and I was sitting close to the mirror and I just was like looking at my own eyes. And I was like, oh, yeah. Like I just had this moment. I was just looking in my own eyes. And I felt like really connected and safe with myself. And then I started the class and I don't do hard yoga. So it's kind of easy yoga. And the woman was saying all these really nice things. And it was just so gentle. It's something that I can do in my body that makes me feel very loved inside my body.

I don't know how to describe it other than like, I'm not producing anything. I'm not really not pushing myself. It's just like, oh, I'm in here. You know, we did an incredible episode recently with Cole Arthur Riley. And she said something about how women get shamed out of our body young and then there's like this dissociation where like we almost leave our bodies. It's it's almost like a defense mechanism and then we end up looking at ourselves like am I in here? like not even not even living inside our own home. And she said something that like distance creates disdain. And it's sitting in yoga classes,

it makes me feel the opposite of that. It makes me feel very close to myself. And there's something about that closeness that makes me feel love. Like if distance creates disdain, then it makes sense that the closer you are in there, that's what you are. Like it's okay. It's love when you're with yourself, you know? I love that. I just wish that all like your yoga classes just was only Shavasana. Exactly. Because I mean you said that I only do easy yoga.

I just don't think that there is such a thing as easy yoga. Like, yeah, I know. I know. It's so hard. There's something I know deeply about it that is so important, but I also just can't get over how hard it is. But this was one of my things,

and I'm really excited about this. Okay, so a meme saved me with this part. So a meme? Yeah, I didn't want the challenge of doing anything hard in those rooms. That's not what I was there for. And so I saw this meme on the thing, and it said, this is, most people think showing up is like 100%, 100%. It was like all these pie charts, 100%, 100%.

But what's showing up really is, and then it had a bunch of different pie charts, and one was 10%. Well, it was 30%. One was 70%. One was 70%. One was 1%. Like, showing up has nothing to do with being 100% every time you show up. Actually, a lot of times you're going to suck. You're going to do barely anything.

I have had so many yoga class where I've done barely anything. And every time I think, oh my god, you're so awesome. This is showing up. And so something's happening. I feel like when I go there, I'm just reconnected with myself and it's like having a meeting with myself each morning. That's quality time.

And then this wild thing happened, which is that I threw Alex through a friend and then through a friend that you met, we ended up going back to recovery meetings recently in our little area. And that was a little bit scary for me and has turned out to be really, really important. So my update is that I'm having meetings with myself

each day, quality time with myself and quality time with other really honest people. Who all bring their weird selves? Yeah. That's what it is. We're going to back. I love that. They bring their weird selves, right?

Nobody's there like, well, actually, I'm optimizing. I'm just crushing it in all areas. So those two things are helping, and that's my update. So I think I'm like starting. I'm off the landing again. Good job. Thanks. It's so wonderful to hear.

Thanks for listening to my update. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Okay, so we have this new segment is what in the podcast world, we call it a segment. And for the first time tonight, we've been calling it since three seconds ago. A segment. It's what we in the business call a segment. And what we decided to do is that we kept getting a seven trillion emails that would like reference one of the episodes and it would say, can you tell me more about? Can you tell me more about it? And would just be like one little thing that we said in an episode and then they would say tell me more we kept seeing the words tell me more over and over again

Welcome to our first tell me more segments. Oh my god. That was so embarrassing Okay I think you're weird self is still here Yeah, okay, tell me more segment. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to spare your runes. It's too soon. It was too soon. Okay. Okay. All right. So Abby, we have one for you, which I find so fun. The most frequent question that we get for you to tell me more, Abby, is folks wanting to know more about Macaroni gate. So Macaroni gate. So this for folks who will remember was episode 26. It was on

sexual desire and it was where Abby discovered her simmering sexual desire for the very first time at the most obvious location out to dinner with her parents at the Macaroni Grill. Okay. So this is a question for you, Abby, one of many from Lori in Utah. It's about the finger grays heard round the world. Did the server intentionally swipe your hand

with the crayon or was that purely accidental? Did the relationship go anywhere? Okay. You have to tell them the story though because some people might not know the macaroni girl story. All right. So honey, can I tell the story? Yes.

All right. You're not gonna get weird? I always get weird. Yeah, you do can I tell the story? Yes. All right. You're not going to get weird? I always get weird. Yeah, you do. But what she means is jealous. I get really jealous, even of the 16 year old waitress at the macaroni girl. She was 18 by the way.

And she was 18. Anyways, so you know at the macaroni girl where they write their names when crayon, during this moment, the waitress, she wrote her name upside down and I thought that that was super cool. And when she put her own everyone down, her hand happened to touch my pinky finger. Now I believe that this is an accent. And I don't know if I told the rest of the story on. Please do.

So I ended up happening as I realized that I was in a very sexy turtleneck and corduroyed pants my school uniform. Catholic school uniform. I was eating dinner with my parents. I apologize mom for the story while you're listening. And I went home and I was struck at how this was the very first conscious, like real, everything else was subconscious at this point. This is a conscious thought like I like this girl

and I have to do something about it. So I went home, I sat in front of my like huge old school Apple computer with like dial up modem, you know, like, internet, like that weird noise. Yeah. Yeah. And I typed up a letter and I sent it. It was, I typed up an anonymous letter because in my hometown, people knew my name and I sent it. It was I typed up an anonymous letter

because in my hometown people knew my name and I was afraid because this is in the late 90s, gayness was not accepted publicly or even privately in many places still that way. And so I wrote an anonymous letter and I sent it to the macaroni grill. I figured out somehow during that dinner that her name. I figured out what her first and last name was. She wrote it on the table. She wrote it inside that. Well, first, but I figured out what I

figured out what her last name was because I didn't say, you know, name waitress. All right. All right. All right. So you sent it to the macaroni girl. So I sent it to the macaroni girl. And in the letter I said, basically it was like, I have a crush on you. And I don't know what to do about it because I'm a girl and I've never been with a girl. And I don't know if you have you have feelings for girls in that way.

Basically like, do you like me? Yes or no? If you do call me. Find my name and it was like a flow like, do you like me? Yes or no? If you do call me, find my name. It was like a flow chart. Do you like girls? Yes, no. If, yes, if no, please tread. But she didn't find her name. She said, if you know who this is, because I had to believe that she was feeling the exact same way. This is the romanticism inside of me. Like if she, if I just wish somebody's finger with a crayon, so I said this to the macaroni grill and I said, look me up in the phone book and call me if you know who this is. And she freaking called me. And by the way, home phone, we don't sell phones now. This is just calling Nana's house. Yes.

Okay. Is Abby there? She called and I answered. And she kind of stammered through the first couple of seconds. Hi, this is so-and-so from Macaroni Grill. And I was like, hi. Because I don't know at this point if she's checked yes to any of those, because I don't know at this point if she's checked yes to any of those boxes.

I don't know. I mean, I know that she's called to this. This could be a restraining order coming. Exactly. Yeah. I just don't know. And so I do feel sad that I was, I held out for a little bit longer than I should have

because she was like, did you send me a letter? And I was like, a letter? Oh. I know she messed with that. A letter? And like two seconds later, I was like, okay, I sent you the letter. She was like, so then what happened?

Okay, and so then that day went and spent the rest of the day with her. And they kissed. Oh my God. On the lips. And then Abby thought that she today, today. Ah, ah, ah, Abby says to me, I thought I was gonna be with her for the rest of my life. I did.

I swear to you. But didn't you date for a really long time? No, maybe like six months. Oh. Because I had to go to college a few months later. I literally met her at the end of my senior year in high school. And I left her college a few months later and then we broke up a few months after that. And it was secret. It had to be a secret.

It was totally secret. Nobody knew. Like my very, very closest best friends knew. I told them right before they went to college. I think it's so, I think it's actually quite brave and beautiful. I love the macaroni girl story. Both of you are badasses. You've always been very confident. God, so confident.

Confession that. Imagine that. I don't know. I mean, I think if I were to get really honest, like the couple of years before, I probably had crushes on people that I just never was able to be conscious about yeah, you know the crayon put it over that Grille will bring you into consciousness. Yeah Sister I have questions that people had for you. Oh tell me more. Okay. Tell me more for Glenin People wanted to talk a lot about

Episode 64 and 65 where you were trying to figure out what front trip is. And this is very sweet from Kristen from New Jersey. She wrote this advice and question for you because you had asked for tips. Like if anyone knows what the hell front trip is, please, you know, do write us a letter. Yes. She said, find people who love themselves the way you want to love yourself. And then trust yourself to fall in love with them a little. Find people who love themselves the way you want to love yourself. And then trust yourself to fall in love with them a little. That's really beautiful because you always think, find people who love you.

So find people who love themselves is really... Yeah, because that's the kind of caliber of person that will make you the kind of caliber person, right? Okay, and then she says, also, did you ever take that trip with a new friend couple? How did that go? Yes. Yes.

We not only took the trip, I would say it was a very successful trip and that we all became closer, like really good friends. I think we're friends. I mean, we are friends. We're friends with each other. She's not good at knowing. We are friends with each other. She's not good at knowing. We are friends with them there. It's ambiguous.

When I have a child, when I have a wife, when I have, you know, I have a sister, these are provable things. No one can say no, I'm not your wife. I'm not your child, I'm not your sister. I can prove these things. Friends, nebulous. Proveable things, things that they have done for us. Things that we love that we depend on them.

They, we talk to them often. Yes. I know what is going on in their lives. They know what's going on in my life. Yes. Um, I was sick recently. Uh, some juices came to my friend door. I sent them away.

I said, I didn't order any juices. My new friend called me and said, sometimes, when people are sick, they send things to people. And then the people accept them. So we're going to try this again. I'm going to recent the juices. How did the trip go, honey? Okay. The trip was amazing. I actually do want to talk about one part of the trip that I thought was super important. So the last day of the trip, it was like three nights, four nights or something,

we all go to breakfast. And we're sitting in breakfast and my new friend, I'm gonna call my friend Alex, because that's actually her name. On account of that's her name. That's a good call. Okay, so she sits at the table and she says, because she's extremely vulnerable and precious and honest.

She says, so here's what I usually do when I leave a social thing like this, the new trip, new friends. I leave and then I spend a day thinking of every single thing I said or did that I wish I didn't say or do. And then I obsess about that thing. And then I think, do they think I'm stupid for saying that and what I should have said.

So that's a post mortem. I just die for a day, all the things. So let's just do it now. Let's just sit at breakfast and talk about every single thing we said and did over the last three, three days that we think may have gone off wrong and we wish we did differently. It was the most lesbian so brilliant. Breakfast that ever has, it was for women. I just recommended so highly because I think it's the conversation that made us the closest. I agree. I think that that kind of cracked it all open. It cracked it open. Yeah. It was really

wonderful. Although, of course, I had a post-mortem for the post-mortem. So where does it end? I don't know. But I just wanted to throw that little tidbit out there because I think that, especially people like the pod sweaters, I know these are sensitive bunnies and I know that we obsess about what we said and did and that level of vulnerability I think. But I do, I think the friendship thing is going well. Thank you for checking in. I have learned, I'm starting to learn what you said, Sissy, which is that it's not maybe an extra thing. It's not like, I have to do my healing and my mental health work and all of my things.

And then, if I have extra time, I can have a friend. It's like, oh, my friends can help me with my mental health. Yeah. It's all part of, I don't know. I feel like I- They're part of your mental health. Yeah, like I told Abby recently I feel like I'm a hot air balloon and now I have like a basket The basket is there now. Yeah, it's really cool people you trust that sissy. What about you? Her tell me more. Oh, I know I get to do tissy's tell me more

I know I get to do tizzy's tell me more. No, I don't know what your tell me more is. It's a tell us your tell me more. Did any of you find any questions for me? Hold on, let me look. Oh no. It appears to tell me what. Do you know? Oh, I will. I know. This is not my first radio. Okay, so my tell me more is from me to me. Okay.

And this is what it is in our episode with Jen Hatmaker, which by the way, I'm that episode. It's so good. It's so beautiful. She's so wonderful. She's so wonderful. She's so wonderful. But I have to confess that I was pretending to know what she was talking about the entire time she was talking about co-dependency.

So she said, I thought that word meant that you're a needy person, you're fragile, and you don't have the muscle memory to independently handle any part of your life. Well, that's not me. And so that everyone laughed knowingly at how absurd that notion was, and then I laughed unknowingly because that is exactly what I thought codependency was. And it was exactly why I thought codependency had absolutely zero nothing burger to do with me. And then she said, the actual definition of codependency,

which is that you just don't allow anyone to sit in the consequences of their choices. anyone to sit in the consequences of their choices. What she had said, she thought was just being helpful. Yeah, people. Yes. And that, at that point, I wanted to melt into this actual window seat of my sons that I do the podcast in because I realize that it has all the burgers to do with me. Right. All the burgers. So I will be planning some codependency podcasts. So those of us who

also laughing unknowingly with Jen might be able to dig a little bit. Good, for you. Okay, so the codependency book. Yes. We both read it. I read the entire thing. I told Abby. As you. I read it as you.

Sister. And Abby said, you read the codependency book as sister. Like you. And then halfway through it, she's like, I just can't stop. I just. I can't stop. dependency book as sister. Like you and then... Halfway through it, she's like, I just can't stop. I just... I can't stop.

I'm only reading it from sister's perspective. I cannot stop this. But the first, my favorite book, that book story, is that I'd brought it home. I put it on the coffee table and Abby said, I'll read it if you read it. I'll read it if you read it. That's the most co-ifendant thing to say,

a lot codifendant thing. Oh my God. What's interesting about codifendancy no more is I read it 20 years ago and it's totally different now. My codifendancies have shifted in many ways. Okay, we're gonna have to pause there for today. We will be back next time to pick up with live pod squad cues.

Thank you for sending us the best most thoughtful questions. Wait till you hear from Donna. We cannot stop thinking about Donna. So come back Thursday and until then, when things get hard, remember we can do hard things. Bye. I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. I walked through a fire I came out the other side. I chased as I er I made sure I got once mine And I continue to believe That I'm the one for me

And because I'm mine, I want the line Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak So now a final destination You can stop asking directions Some places they've never been and to be loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home through the joy and pain

that our lives bring We can do a heartache I hit rock bottom It felt like a brand new star I'm not the problem sometimes things fall hard and I continue to believe To believe the best people are free And it took some time, but I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers and heartbreak some man A final destination with light They stopped asking directions So places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find a way back home

And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do a heartache I'm a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little The tears and heart breaks on my mind We might get lost but we're only in that Stopped asking directions Some places may have never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain

That our lives bring We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it.

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