We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Are Your Friendships Draining or Charging You? with Luvvie Ajayi Jones

Episode Date: January 13, 2022

1. How do we build a squad of friends–people we can trust our truth and imperfection with, and who take responsibility for one another’s care? 2. How to know when it’s time to let a friendship go–and how we release one another without the hard feelings.   3. Why when we have a problem trusting others, it sometimes has to do with a lack of trust in ourselves.    4. Why Luvvie says her friends have rewired her brain, and answers the question: Can Black and white women really be friends? About Luvvie: Luvvie Ajayi Jones is a two-time New York Times bestselling author, podcast host, and sought-after speaker who thrives at the intersection of humor, media, and justice. Her critically acclaimed books Professional Troublemaker: The Fear-Fighter Manual and I’m Judging You: The Do-Better Manual were instant bestsellers and established her as a literary force with a powerful pen. Professional Troublemaker was just released in paperback.  She’s an internationally recognized speaker who takes on dozens of stages every year around the globe and has spoken at some of the world's most innovative companies and conferences, including Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Twitter. She is also co-creator of the #SharetheMicNow global movement and hosts her podcast, Professional Troublemaker. Instagram: @luvvie Twitter: @Luvvie To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at $12.99 per month. Okay, we are back. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. We are back with lovey and lovey. I just want to jump right in and talk about two things with you.

Easy, easy topics. Number one is going to be about friendship. Number two is going to be about black women and white women and if they can actually ever really be friends. Oh, this is my, I cannot fucking wait for this conversation. So, do easy things. So first of all, when we talk about I, whenever we ask a question, okay, can black women and white women be friends? We first have to define what is friends, right? Like what? And lovey, we're gonna do an entire episode on friends soon, becke, friendship, because I have felt very, very clueless about friendship my whole life.

And I think it's because I don't understand it. I don't understand what the rules are. I don't understand the structure. You enter into this thing and you're like, okay, let's be friends, but that means two completely different things to each person. So you're always failing. Because one person has these expectations for

friendship that you don't know. And you have the other and and there's like when you get married, you take vows. You know what everybody's expecting. Yeah. And you talk about it. And you come to an agreement and you share value systems. And so there's a understanding and agreement of the deal here. Yes. And in friendship, it's the wild wild west. I don't know what anyone expects of me. It's better just to end it before it begins because it's going to end badly. And also when does it end? Nobody gives you a we're going to be friends for six months. We're now breaking up friends. You have to be friends for the rest of your life. Oh my gosh, this is so

funny. So lovey. Clearly, I'm not the expert on this. I would say that you are an expert on this when I watch the way that you and your friends take care of each other and love each other and have joy together, none of this angst I'm describing seems to be always on yet. They're not always on yet. They're often in other places. We have been on yachts a few times though. I ain't going to lie. We actually Abby's not wrong though.

I love a yacht jealousy. If it's nice place, we're gonna be on a yacht. You'll know, but even if you're just like on an IG live, if you and Bose are on IG live, if you if you you know, I'm always on there. You always be like, I love it because I just love watching you talk to each other because the love just shoots out of your eyeballs like care bear love. So it is care bear love. Yeah, so talk to us and you have so much in your books about building a squad too. And you give us actual ways that we can do that and collect little groups of people who we can do life with. So first of all, remind us of what your definition of a friend is. And then you just talk to us about friendship and how we do it.

Thanks. How we do my best. So I think a friend is somebody who you do feel responsible for some of their care, but also who you can trust yourself with. Trust your truth with. Trust your imperfection with. A friend is, I think friendship is a verb just

like love, just like sisterhood, just like community. And friendship is an action. It doesn't mean we talk every single day. Sometimes we'll go a month without speaking. But friendship means that person is another charging station for me. That person is another charging station for me. And friendship, I was actually, I have in the conversation one of my really good friends unique the other day. And she was reflecting friendship to me.

And she was like, you know, now more than ever, she understands the importance of that word friend and how it means like we're all getting older. We're gonna be losing parents soon, you know. Friendship has to show up. The friend is not the person who just casually tells you on social media, oh my God, I'm so sorry. The friend is the person who says,

I have you eaten today. The friend might be the person being like, do you need their obituary written? Do you need me to help you write it? Like actions that are substantive, which is why I'm very careful who I consider, who I call and consider friend, because will I show up for you in the moment of crisis?

If you are not to my who I would, show up for, I can't call you a friend. Wow, that's good. It's a boundary. It's like, it's like the Burnet episode. Do I want to be accountable for this in the future? Do I want to be accountable for you? For future? Do I want to be accountable for you? For you.

Correct. It's good. Correct. I have to vouch for you. I got to show up for you. So my friends, people know where friends, which means my name actually goes with them. Right?

So it becomes, oh, that's one of these friends, which I should mean literally, even when I'm not in the room, you represent me and I represent you. So who I also call a friend has to be aligned with my values, because if that person is not, you go, that doesn't match. That's Lovey's friend, but she's kind of terrible person. That doesn't match. That doesn't match. You can't, I can't.

No. So I think all of that values, care, love, and of course sharing joy with each other and serving as soft place to land for each other. Like I know I can never fail truly in this world because my friends will be my soft place to land even if I fall. They won't ever let me hit concrete. They'll catch me right before the moment I do.

So it also feels like safety. I love that. Comfort and challenge. Comfort and challenge. Comfort and challenge. And chosen family, you know, like I think that like, to me and to any person who has had any kind of childhood struggle, it's really important the chosen family that you take with you throughout your life.

And friends do come and go because there are seasons of friends like when you're in college and just after coming, you know, you're not sober friends and now that I'm sober, we have different kinds, I have different kinds of friends and to be able to choose, it's like we do need to choose wisely. Don't be friends with somebody just because they live next store to you. Proximity friendships are convenient, but a lot of times they don't have real depth, you know. A lot of my friends, my closest friends don't live in Chicago. I live in Chicago. Y'all live in LA buzzes and LA just isn't like DC. So a lot of my closest friends aren't even in my city, but I don't feel less supported, right? Like I don't feel less supported, right? Like, I don't feel less held.

And I know that when I need them, they're playing right away. You know, I, yeah, friendship is, it's the love story. Can you talk about knowing when a friendship is needs to be released and how that works? Because for you say, some people are right or die and I'm more right or surely understand why I'm done here. Is that what we gotta do? Why we gotta die fam, like I mean,

why we gotta die. And just nobody's dying, nobody, we're dying. So we're not asking you to right or die. So when you hit this surely, you understand why I'm done here, phase. What does that look like to release a friend with love? And how do you know? And how do you know?

So I've had friendship losses over the years. And actually who I am as a friend today is partly because of some of the friendship losses I've had where people have not showed up for me in a way or they weaponized something I did or said. And I'm like, woo, the type of friend I am, I give you extra grace because I've had friends who never gave grace. I give extra benefit of the doubt because you have to think the best of me for us to be in the community because when I make mistakes you have to understand it's not malicious. Right so I'm the friend who was like I must give you grace I must give you benefit, if you have to second guess everything you do, because you're not sure how they will

receive it or how they'll take it. If you do not trust your feelings with them, you're very persona with them. It's time to let them go because you can no longer lean on them in the way you really need to. No, would you be present for them because you're going to feel resentful. So I always know when it's time to let go of somebody's, when I say, you've either crossed a boundary that I can't unsee, you broke something

that I can't figure out how to fix it. Or ultimately, I start seeing you as somebody who was not in integrity. And if I can't have a conversation. Yes, I have a conversation. Well, here's the thing. I also will let friends know when they do something that does that hurts me in a way.

So like, I don't like when people will just pop up and be like, oh my god, I've been upset for the last two years. Oh, God. So you've been keeping that to yourself. I think we should honor each other and ourselves and be truly honest with each other and tell the truth, especially in those hard moments. So repairs can happen or not. Give people a chance to repair. And if they don't repair, that's a data point that you can be like, well, I guess we're done, right? So I also will have conversations along the way. And if we get to a point where I'm like,

yeah, this person is not hearing, they're not doing anything different. I really can't trust them. Then sometimes I fade, not that I ghost, not that I even have a dramatic conversation, but I become less available. Yeah. I become less available.

And then if they ask me, hey, this thing happened, I'll tell you. Or I'll even say, let's have a conversation. And it's in that conversation that I'll go, yes, see, this feels cruel, this does not feel kind, this does not feel gentle. I can't do it. Most people waste, but I don't agree with the ghosting, where you just like, some people will block friends on social media randomly, that's how they know that they're not speaking anymore. Some people would like, no, like that, don't do that. Be

a better person than that. It's image like, have conversations. I've had friends come back to me, or ex-friends, who have tried to like argue with me. And I go, I'm not sure what she want from me. We can have a rule conversation, but I'm not doing a tip for tag. Let's have a rule conversation, but I'm not doing it back and forth. You know, sub posting on Instagram is great for people too in Facebook,

because you know, adults do that now, social media. I've seen people's whose friendships have broken up and you can be like, oh snap. Is that person's posting sometimes friendships I've fought a whose friendships have broken up and you can be like, oh snap is that person's posting sometimes friendships I thought was seasoned and a reason and you're like, oh, there must be bad. There must be there must be mad at somebody right now I'd be watching like take it up with the person. Yeah, take it up with the person. Yeah, and I think sometimes we don't we don't end things or we end things wrong because We're trying to control the narrative in terms of like I'm the good guy and you're the bad guy and I have to wait until I can prove that perfectly and until I

can explain it in a way that makes it but but that's not real like sometimes it's not you it's not me it's the energy between us it's the moment it's the I don't have to be the situation it's just not it's just not it's just not working you can release not. It's just not. It's just not working. You can release each other. Right. And I think you can release each other without even having hard feelings. Yeah. You don't have to be like, oh, I hate that bitch. No, we not friends no more.

You can just be like, no, like we drifted apart. And that's fine. The person you see them out in public say hi. Every friendship break, it's not to be this dramatic bomb that just went off and all of a sudden this person's, I hate them so much. You're horrific. No, sometimes people will drift apart and that's natural. Like, when adults stuff happens, but I think all through it tries much as you can to maintain your integrity. Yeah, and I love your advice of you don't always have to decide whether or not you

like the other person or if they're worthy or if they're honest or whatever, but you do have to decide if you like yourself around that person. And if you don't like yourself and trust yourself and feel calm and safe, then that's enough information. It's enough information. So many people in the world, we don't have to stay right or die with the wrong ones. Are you in love with your friends? If you're not, why are they your friends?

Like in love where you're just like, oh my God, like a care bear stare. Oh my God, I care bear stare on my friends because I just think y'all are amazing. Are you in love with the person who is your friend, who you're sharing space and energy with, who you're going on vacations with sometimes, who you're watching on zoom or what's that?

Being loved with the people around you. Yeah, do you feel safe enough to receive love to from your friends? One of my barometers of like real friendship is will I let them love me? Like do I receive the kind of gifts or love that they want to bring me? Do they have something to offer me that I actually will truly deeply receive? Yes, are they a charging station? I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think

about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios.

Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. I'm sure you get this. Sometimes when you do the work that we do, you get the feeling that when you get together with people, they just want you to give them a speech. Like, I'm not freaking like this. I'm not in real life wanting to do this all the time. Like, I'm the best at this in public.

I always feel sometimes nervous to meet people in real life because I'm like, they're going to be disappointed. Yeah, people, people meeting like, oh my god, lovey, funny act and I met her. She was not warm. And I'm just like, did you, did you think I was going to see you and tackle you in a hug? Like what, anything I was going to be?

Is this also a note to everyone? If you see, lovey, do not hug her. That's a boundary. Like hug. She doesn't like hugs for me. I only like hugs for my friends. Yes, yes. Yes.

My friends and people who I know, like I don't want strangers to hug me, but like friends, that's what I mean by in love. Yes. Like I want to hug my friends. I want to hug my family members. I want to hug acquaintances and people who I'm like, yes, but like that's a boundary that does not exist for the rest of the world and that's okay. Right. And my friends know, where do you find love you on her couch? like, yes, but like, that's a boundary that does not exist for the rest of the world and that's okay.

Right. And my friends know, whether you find lovey on her couch. So we'll have many nights just sitting on the couch doing nothing interesting, just randomly being there, eating random snacks and talking about random shenanigans. That's what, that is what friendship is, not just the deep moments, but like, the super mundane, not even worth talking about moments.

Those are also for me actually really important. So you see us so, it's funny, like people see me in bows and like, the last vacation we were just on together because one of our mutual friends turned 60 and it was super swaggy, super duper swaggy. That is like one percent of the time we in bows to each other.

Other times we are in our Auntieie Robes and bonnets, just sitting on her couch, eating random stews, just doing nothing of note and talking about nothing that's important. And I think those are the best moments, right? Those are the best times. And I think my friends have rewired my brain. My friends have rewired my brain with their generosity.

Like I go to therapy and I say like every single time somebody does something generous for me, something shifts in my head that says, okay, you can you can receive that. You know, you can actually be a recipient of somebody's love in that way. And I tell them every time I was like, your friendship, who wires my brain. Okay, so we need to jump into some pod squad questions, but before we do that, I want to ask you a real simple question that I feel like we'll have a real simple answer. Can black women and white women really be friends? Yes, they can. If the white woman knows how to be in community. Here's the thing about Black sisterhood, Black woman's sisterhood, that's really specific

and important. Our sisterhoods are our lifelines, like lifelines. We, from the time we were born, Black women cleave onto each other. It's a culture, no matter around the diaspora, whether you are in Nigeria, in Barbados, whether you are in the United States, Black women from the moment we come out, other Black women have our hearts. So we actually come out the gate in deep community with each other. We lean on our, our relationships with our mothers are very specific.

Like how our mothers raise us is like as tiny versions of themselves, but there's this connection that's kind of unspeakable. And then we start grade school and then we become best friends with the person sitting next to us and that person ends up being our friend. We've 45 and we're like, oh my God, you, friends, three, actually have a friend who you're the French? We're like three. I actually have a friend who I've been friends with since I was three.

Wow. I reconnected with Haun Fei because I lost track of her when we moved to the US, but end up reconnecting. Like from the time we are going, we learn that we have each other if nobody else. So then our friendships are deep. Like we don't just, oh hey, that's my girl.

No, like I'm coming over to your house so we can just randomly just cry because you had a rough day type thing. Or our friends will end up becoming daughters to our moms. Bose's mom was the efficient for my wedding. will end up becoming daughters to our moms. Bose's mom was the efficient for my wedding. Because she knows me in Cardinal so much, like that is literally my second mom.

So our friendships, we've had to do it from the set as a survival tool. Because if we don't lean on each other, the world would have destroyed us by now. Black women have saved each other over and over again, and we are each other's breaths, right? So our friendships mean something different. Now, when we get into friendships with white women,

I'm not sure have the same level of depth to the friendships because you haven't had to for survival. We will approach it with the full heart and full body. Which for you might feel weird because you're like, man, but that's how we operate. So for you to be our friend, you also have to approach us with full heart and full body, full vulnerability. Like we need to show up for us in the way we would expect our girlfriends to show up for us. But because of so much, the chasm between white and black, because of the hierarchies that all these systems of oppression that put in place, it's put us against each other. So when a black woman and white woman can be in friendship together, it can be a revolution.

Because it's actually crossing all sorts of societal, cultural lines that were put in place to lock us away from each other. That's right. I have nothing to add to that. That was incredible, lovey. Thank you so much. That's just clear. That, that, yeah. I mean, do you have any follow up questions? No, I just, I feel like I, I feel like when I have entered the beginnings of friendships with black women, I feel something different. I feel that I am

tiptoeing on more being expected of me than is expected of me in my relationships with white women. Correct. And that is so thrilling and what I've always wanted and also terrifying because I am used to not much being expected of me in friendships. Ooh, that's a really good vulnerability in that way, of like putting it in that way. And I think, man, black women being in relationship with white women, which share the mic now

was an exercise a, you know, we haven't really talked about it. I don't think we've processed how special Sierra LeMagnas was. Like, do you realize like we did this major world-changing thing and ran past it and just moved on, right? I have to say that the things that people have reflected to me about Sierra LeMagn now is those pairings, how we matched a black woman with a white woman took over her account. It's been a year and a half. And some people are like deep friends now because of it.

Like busy and carry. Maybe like FaceTime and all the time. Toronto. Yeah, but and I and Abby and I don't have your own many sports closest friends now. I mean, we. Yeah. And we're so grateful. When I asked to run to be a part of share the mic now. So Rhonda said, you know I'ma say yes because it's you. I have only two people who I am requesting.

And one of them was you. And I said, say less. I was like, that's perfect. You actually wanted you all to know each other already. So when that happened, and we were pairing, we put Yaba with, I actually think we didn't even, we didn't even think about it in that way that we were pairing, we put Yaba with actually think we didn't even we didn't even think about it in that way that we were pairing Yaba with Abby and your best friends. Yeah, but it just worked. But the beauty

of what you've been able to create. Literally, I think is a revolution. That is a beautiful part of the human experience that we can always find common ground and we can always find depth. We can always be deeper. We can always do the work to build and cultivate beautiful relationships with people we might not have met if this was 1963. I share that my dad changed the game in a lot of ways, but it was really about that friendship of like community. What does it look like for us to actually break the wall down and for people to actually talk and love each other and show up for each other?

And honestly, going in, I think the challenge that you rise up to, that friendship challenge, you risen up to it for me. Like you have showed up for me when I call, like you say, how can it be pushed to sing for it? I remember when professional trouble maker was coming out, you said, okay, what do we need to do to make this book fly? And you and Amanda got on a call with my team for an hour. She's like,

download an information and just being like, we got you. Every one of those minutes was another minute where it solidified why I consider you one of my charging stations. And you know, Cher that make now that whole endeavor, I know it changed y'all's relationship, made y'all closer. And also for me, because of Yava and Toronto, it's completely changed my life. I didn't know how important that was going to be to be able to establish those kinds of true bonds with people.

And by the way, it's taken time. It's not something that was like like that. Like we have monthly committed to getting on calls with them and to talk through life. It's just been amazing. Well, it's just I feel like I understood with those two. I felt like, okay, this is some sort of sacred ground shit that I'm not used to in terms of friendship. Yeah. And like, I think I understood what you said before, lovey, that like, if this is something we're going into, this is something that I'm going to promise to myself that I want to take care of these human beings forever.

And I want to let them care of me. And that's not something I'm used to in friendship. Totally. At all. It does I'm used to in friendship. Totally. At all. It does have to do with white culture. But it's also because, you know, for a lot of people who are black women, who have navigated this world,

you have stories of times when white women have undermined us, got us in trouble, got us fired, got us punished for something. So we're also now fighting against what has happened to us in the past from white women. So there's a lot of, you will have to over prove your friendship to us because in the past, we haven't seen sisterhood from white women at all. And I think about when Hillary lost the presidency, and I wrote a piece about it, and I said, what happened is,

white women didn't vote for Hillary because white women didn't trust themselves to lead, let alone her to lead. And that permeates everything. It permeates how the friendships happen. It permeates how the co-workers step themselves in the bag. It permeates a lot of things.

So we are fighting against that. So when we see why women show up, it's the exception, which is why it's important that you keep showing up. Because even that is modeling something that is not always the case. It is a beautiful thing. And I always tell people like, Glennon's a real one. Like, Glennon's a real one. They know I,

there's very few I'd be vouching for. Glennon and Abby. I vouch for it. Because y'all actually show up. Y'all have the tough conversations. Right. Y'all are not afraid of feedback. You're not fragile. You're not something like, oh my god, my, my, my feels are so hurt. She told me, uh, oh god, you don't do any of that. You're a grown up who is here for accountability, who is here for growth, who is here for laughter, because we be on shenanigans, okay?

You're honest, that's all we're asking for. Friendship requires honesty, accountability, action. If I say like, hey, Glennon, I really need you. I know I would get a response. Hey, I have a meeting. I'll call you back in 30 minutes. That no problem. Friendship is simple, but we complicate it. And then we're like, Oh my god, I don't know what, just be the friend that you would like to have. And you would be a good friend. And lovey, it's because what you just said, white women didn't vote for Hillary because we don't trust ourselves to lead.

And whatever, when we don't enter friendships, it's because we don't trust ourselves to be a friend. You trust yourself. You know you can. But when I enter that friendship with the y'all ventrana, I'm like, can I do this? Can I show up? Can I be a good person for a long time? Can I take feedback? Can I like, it's a self.

You have to trust yourself to enter a friendship that means something to you. My therapist says when you have trust issues, when you don't trust others, it's ultimately because you don't trust yourself. Once you trust yourself more, you'll start trusting other people. She uses the challenge to me back to the control thing, right? She was like, when you're afraid of losing control is because you don't trust yourself. So you're not trusting other people. So when friendship comes into play, people are to your point, you're not trusting themselves, you know, to be good friends.

Yeah. And to get themselves out if they need to. I think that's a part of trust. When you're little, you have control over nothing, so you have to put up all these boundaries to protect yourself. But when you're older, you have more control. You can leave things if they get bad. You can trust yourself.

No, I'll see that red flag if it's down the road. I don't have to protect myself in case there's any red flags. I can enter into this relationship knowing that I can trust myself to get myself out if I need to. In the other part about friendships between black women and white women is white women gotta know we gonna come to you with base. Like, listen, we're not doing compliments at which is all the time. Like if I'm talking like this, it doesn't mean I'm upset.

I'm just, that's just how I talk. So when people go, my God, I felt attacked because she got really excited. You can't be friends with that person. So you're gonna have to just drop from fragility. Just drop some of those fragility. Just leave it behind. Otherwise, you can't be genuine friends.

You will stay far acquaintances. We'll say what's up in streets and be like, oh, it's good to see you. But you will not be in our sacred spaces. That's right. I love you. Okay, let's hear from Alex. Alex has a question for lovey.

My name is Alex. Right now, we're'm at in life, I know the things that I'm doing are not right. The job that I'm in is not the right job. The place that I'm living is not the right place. They're not good for me. But I'm to wait till I can make the next step, or until I can fit my job, until I can go to moving somewhere else,

and you know, there has to be some planning that goes into that. So my question is like what do you do when you're no here in the wrong situation and you know you need to change it but you can't change it yet. How do you live in that space? So what do you know when you know you're in the wrong situation and you know you can't change it yet? How do you live in that space? I think start with your plan.

I think when you are in a position that's not ideal, plan what the ideal situation is, write it down, like have the vision of what this ideal life that you want is. And then what is also realistic for right now in six months, create the plan towards that because you'll keep your eyes on the prize, right? If you're just like in the black hole, you're just like, there's no hope. And I just have to sit in this for a minute. I think it'll be hard to get out of bed. So I just think start the plan, write the vision, make it plain,

and like read it even every single day as a way to encourage you because you know that at some point you'll be on the other side of what the situation is. Let's go to this one because I read one of your auntie posts the other day and they may be the thick of you.

So my question is, this is a big struggle of mine. I have teenagers at home and I struggle with some of their clothing choices. Now I am all about raising cheetahs. So we're all about that right and for them to be whatever kind of strong person they want to be, I think that is amazing. So even as a 44 year old woman, I like to sometimes dress sexy and with awesome makeup and then other times I like to just be in, you know, graded clothes the pad and no makeup and just be me. So I like to do both. So what I'm struggling with as a mom of teenagers is some of these outfits that they want to wear are just a little bit more revealing than I would like them to wear as their mother. So as a Cheetah mother, I really struggle with,

okay, they need to have their own identity. And I don't want to attach shame or body issues or kind of a false morality with them, regarding what they wear. But I just wish there was more fabric. I just wish that there wasn't so much skin. So I need help with some guidance on what is the right thing to do with teenagers and their clothing.

So please help. Oh my God, please help us. It's steric. OK, so my niece stayed with me over the holidays. And every day, she would walk into the kitchen with a mid-riffle on. And every time I'd be like, where's the rest of your shirt?

It is wintertime in Chicago. Are you not cold? And she's like auntie. I am not cold at all. My jacket is heavy. But like, is my outfit given? And I'm like, given what? Because it's given half outfit, like, what are we doing? And I just talked about it because it was cold, like,

since, are you paying full price for these half shirts? Because I have questions. I have questions. Are you paying full price for zero fabric? I just want to economically just make it to no sense. So, parent, I don't think I'm helpful. I'm a fan of just roasting them. I just like making fun of them.

And it's not about making fun of their body. It's just making fun of the fact that the shirt is so little, that they're paying all this money for so little fabric that they are being heated out of good money and coins. So yeah, every day it was my routine to roast my niece. And me and Carnell would literally make fun of her for about 15 minutes. So yeah, every day it was my routine to roast my niece. And me and Carnell would literally make fun of her for about 15 minutes.

It's talking about like girl, do you need a full shirt? Like do any of your shirts come down? And she'll be like, y'all just don't understand. Like this shirt is giving everything. I'm like girl, it's giving half, giving half. So I just, I'm a fan of making fun of them. I feel like kids can get yes, they can get it I love it. That's just the perfect answer. Okay, let's hear from Rosie

This is Rosie and I am calling to ask because I And try to move again with my girlfriend and Mrs. Cipher, and I will be moving in with a significant other. What conversation do you wish you had before moving in with somebody, whatever advice you've got, about Celerik? Like I said, this is the first for me. Thank you for all you do on We Can Do Heart Thing.

Bye. A hard thing is cohabitating for another full grown human being. That's a hard, yeah. Bro, nobody talks about that part. Nobody talks about that. You're in a permanent sleepover with somebody who is different from you and got different habits and sometimes they're junkier and sometimes they're cleaner

and you're like the hamper's right there, you could just put that right in there like okay. Things you have to talk about, one, what you gonna help with around the house, like who's doing what chores? This is important. That's right. If you don't like washing dishes, find you like washing dishes.

Neither one of us like washing dishes. Well, I guess we need a dishwasher. Okay. Like who? Homes. Okay. Homes is doing what? We got to know these things. These are important things because the fights you will have when moving in with a partner are stupid. They'll be like, why didn't you wash the dishes and sing? You know, like watch the dishes. But I mean, you could have just, these are logistical fights. Yes.

Ask all the questions. Like, do you like doing laundry, you like folding? But I don't like folding. You like folding, great. I'm going to do laundry, you fold. Cool, great. Like, it's not sexy. It's not sexy.

It is very much like logical, grown up, credit score type stuff. Yes. I mean, listen, what, chord-type stuff. Yes. I mean, listen, one thing that Glenn and I, what do you, what do you least love to do? Like, what do you hate to do? And so she's give, she gives me her list and then, and it changes, by the way, as you get older, things change

because you see her, sometimes I see her doing a job, I'm like, that looks way easier than the one that I'm doing. So maybe in a few years, I'll amend my list. I also think we should ask each other like, hey, how do you feel about watching on TikToks and Instagram Reels without headphones? Oh, this just got sidetracked real quick. What is your stance on that?

Do you find that appropriate? Or do you find that unbelievably jarring and rude? Or maybe those of us who do watch them sometimes don't actually call thou out when you also listen to him. All right, so double standards, we could talk about that. Are you talking about double standards? That's a great question to ask. I don't know why we sidetracked this way,

but here we are. I might be the one who might not always have the headphones and is cackling. That's right. At a video. If it turns funny. And then Cardinal looks over and goes, I'm trying to see him.

I'm a baby. My baby. She's got to be here. Sorry. I got this. My baby. Yes. Lovey, I think, can sometimes you come back just to answer our people's questions. Yeah, that would be so funny.

Oh my God. That would be so fun. I would love to just like do it episode. That's just like answering your audience's questions and giving them the word. You know what? We could even have it be the opposite advice they should be hearing. Yeah. Like make fun of your friends for wearing crop tops.

I'm the one who, I'm the auntie who's telling you to make it like to make fun of the kids for wearing crop tops. So I don't know how much you want to take my advice. Yeah, we can do fun things because those are fun answers. Fun answers. I'll give you the hard answers, the fun answers, the crop tops. And it's actually a very good idea. You're a damn one more joke. You're a damn joke. I love you. Thank you for being with us. We adore you. Tell us real quick where we can find you everywhere, how we can start hearing you on a daily basis like I do.

Yes. Okay. So you can follow me on social media. I am at Lovey everywhere. Are you VVI? There's only one. Any other job counterfeits. Okay.

How you can support my work. You can listen to my podcast, Professional Trouble Maker. I have a great episode with Glennon and One With Athby. That's right. Okay, two, okay, two. And by my books, you know, I really infuse my heart into my books.

So I have, I'm judging you, which is my first one. Professional Trouble Maker, The Fear Fighter Manual, which is my second, and then, Avail for pre-order now is Rising Troublemaker, the Fear Fighter Manual for teens, so you can get these everywhere books are sold. So I really would love for you to support me in these ways.

Follow me on social media, listen to my podcast, buy my books. Yes, and I do all of those things, which is one of the reasons, I don't know, I just think you make me better and funnier and wiser. And I adore you. Thanks for being here. All of you.

I love you all. Thanks so much. And I'm just going to say this if I leave. Thank you for also being somebody who's rewind my brain, Glennon. Abby, you also in Amanda, like you sent me a message the other day that made me cry.

I am deeply grateful for your friendship, you know, to consider you three of my charging stations, okay? And thank you for always seeing me and showing up for me. It really, really, really, really impacts the way I show up in the world, knowing that I have soft places to land forever. We are now going to do the Pod Squadron of the Week. If you listen to episode 45, that was their runners and cheers, where Abby and Glennan and Shalaine, Flanagan, talked about Abby's amazing experience at the

New York City marathon, then you will recognize what's going on here. The woman named Steph, and she called in, and she was running her first half marathon in San Francisco. She got to the bottom of the last hill and she was defeated. And she looks over and she sees a woman holding a sign that said, you can do hard things. And the hard was written in cheetah print. And she said that that person who was holding that sign solidarity pushed her to finish the race. And so she called in because it meant so much to her and her hope was,

since the science and you can do our things, that this person was also someone who listened to the podcast and that maybe she'd be able to hear it and know what that had meant to staff. She did hear the message and the signholders name is Cassidy and she wrote to us and she called into the pod. She was so excited. She did both. She wrote, I want so much for Steph to know that I heard her on the podcast and how much the effort she went through to try and let me know that that sign and my presence helped

her on that race day means to me. She said, staff, I saw you that day and I did what I could to lift you up. And I just heard as you did, which you could to lift me up, even though you didn't know I needed it, or if I would ever hear your kind words. I'm speechless at this example of wild and crazy universal connectedness and deeply grateful for how these stars have aligned. Clearly, we are teammates for life, and I've never loved my team more. So thank you, Steph, and thank you Amanda, Glen and Annabee

for showing up, saying all the things, providing a platform for others to do the same, and for all being authentically, unapologetically, and courageously you. Keep running, keep cheering, and keep doing hard things. Y'all. So we get to hear from Cassidy too. So to staff and to all the cheers

and all the runners and everyone who is both today, here is Staff's signholder Cassidy. Hi everybody, my name is Cassidy. Here is Steph's signholder, Cassidy. Hi everybody, my name is Cassidy. Here's the thing. I'm a part of a team. A big ass team of people, a few that I know, but mostly a whole lot I don't know.

But we are all on the same team because we do the hard thing that is running. So on that beautiful race morning, instead of lacing up my shoes, I poured everything I would have given to my run, interrooting my teammate on. I shouted out their names and words of encouragement and told my voice was raw and my arms were trembling from holding my spine so high over my head. Like Chilling said in the podcast, it is important to put your best self out there because you just never know.

And I put my best true leader self out there that day. Oh my gosh. If you could have told me two and a half years ago when I started training for that freaking marathon that any of this could have been possible. Not only like the podcast, but like the connected tissue that is in the running community that can happen, it's just, Cassidy, thank you. I just love this story so much. It's just such a, it's such a good feel, good. Yeah, and it's such a good example of how connected we are when we don't even know. We don't even know. She's right. We don't even know. We show up.

We don't even know that we're helping somebody else through their day. It's so beautiful. And it's like a good example also of sometimes the hard thing and the good thing is the showing up for someone else doing their hard thing. Yeah. I'm not gift of being an encouraging person, being somebody who loves cheering other people on. Oh my god, what a gift. There's no greater fulfillment. I feel in terms of feeling like you are on a team with a bunch of strangers. Yeah. That's how this podcast feels. And how about the love and genuinely of being like, I just really want that person on that day who is holding that

sign who meant so much to me to know it. Yes. And then she didn't just wish for that. She made it happen by calling in by doing the thing. Thank you to Steph, thank you to Cassidy, thank you to all of you our pod squad who every freaking week just makes us feel so loved and connected me once again we just love doing life with you so and hope we meet again which will be in just a few short days don't forget the wee part of that we can do hard things because it's really the most important word in that whole dance sentence right we love you. See you back here soon.

Bye. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it.

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