We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Dawn Staley on Knowing (and Demanding) Your Worth

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

422. Dawn Staley on Knowing (and Demanding) Your Worth  Legendary coach and three-time Olympic gold medalist Dawn Staley joins us to talk about what it means to lead—with heart, grit, and unapologetic honesty. She shares: -The one lesson from her mother that shaped her entire coaching philosophy -How she stood up to her university and negotiated equal pay -What losing (and winning) has taught her about grace and dominance -The surprising toll of achieving your lifelong dreams -And how her North Philly roots continue to guide everything she does We also dive into her new book, Uncommon Favor, and why socks, smashed dishes, and LA Fitness-level gym disparities all make an appearance in her story. This is one of the most powerful conversations we’ve had about integrity, visibility, and becoming the coach of your own life. About Dawn: Dawn Staley is the NCAA National Championship–winning head coach of the University of South Carolina Women’s Basketball team, a three-time Olympic gold medalist, and a Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame inductee. Her new memoir Uncommon Favor is available now. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we have coach Don Staley. Oh my God, as everyone on the planet knows, Don Staley is the NCAA national championship winning head coach of the University of South Carolina Gamecocks women's basketball team, a three time Olympic gold medalist and a Naismith Memorial basketball hall of fame inductee. She is from North Philly, which means she can do anything. Her new book, Uncommon Favor, Basketball North Philly, My Mother and the Life Lessons I Learned from All Three is available now. Welcome coach. basketball, North Philly, my mother, and the life lessons I learned from all three

is available now. Welcome, coach. Okay, but I'm gonna get a lot of street cred for coming on your show. Like, it's up. It's up. It's up, my friends. It's up. Yes.

We feel the exact same way about you coming on our show. That's exactly right. Okay, so Dawn, we have a lot in common and one of the things that I was struck by is being the youngest of a big family, your attachment to maybe socks for me. Socks are still to this day probably my most prized possession because it was like hit or miss if you got two of the same socks growing up. It was like a hunger games, but socks were the prize. Okay. So I must know as you are also the youngest

of a big family, what is your relationship with socks now? I have to know. You know what? I very rarely wear socks. Isn't that crazy? Yes. What? Like seriously, very rarely do I wear socks. Wow.

So do your feet not get sweaty? Well, sometimes, but then I have a collection of sneakers that I could just get another pair. So you wear sneakers like the rest of us wear socks. That's good. Not quite, but I can't remember the last time I wore socks. And it was because I wore some moccasins shoes and it was winter. But I still don't wear like all of our games.

Like I have no socks. I do get criticized a little bit with our players because I don't have any socks. I love that. All right, we're gonna have a big conversation around stuff that we read in your book and other things that we've seen on the television with you on the sidelines

coaching South Carolina. I mean, get out of here with how awesome you are on the sidelines. But I just want to start off by talking a little bit about UVA. You went there for college, played basketball there. And when you were getting recruited, there was a time where you didn't want

some of those coaches who were recruiting you to come to your house and your mom said something to you that you never forgot. What was it? My mom said, never be ashamed of where you grow up. I don't know if I was ashamed, so to speak. I'm really private. I don't want to give people the most sacred things of me. And I do believe my neighborhood was that. And I think it was more so of sharing that intimacy with other people because I love my neighborhood. Like I adore all the people that I grew up with.

I loved growing up in the projects. I did the camaraderie. Everything was like a big family, especially in the block that I grew up in. I mean, some of the surrounding areas might've been a little sketchy, but what we had, I didn't wanna share. So I was a little bit selfish with that

because I would say my mother, our house was immaculate, very, very clean. My mother, and I'm going to probably date y'all, right? My mother changed like, you know, the paneling that you put on the walls. She changed that like every season. Like I could go to sleep and wake up and my mother has changed the entire house around. And it looks like a different house, like very tidy, very neat. So it wasn't that I was ashamed of where I grew up. It was more of everybody can be a part of the greatness of the projects.

I love that. Because your mother was my hero on page five of the book. And I actually stopped reading and read a passage to Abby in the very beginning because I was having an out-of-body fantasizing moment. Can you tell us what your mother would do if she came home and the dishes weren't done? I mean, Listen, listen. Y'all gotta understand it was five of us, right?

Five of us in the house. We each had a week to wash the dishes, right? I hated dishes. I would really pay my brothers the $10 allowance that I would get to wash my week, right, of dishes. Now, it was probably my fault because I paid them and it's my week. And if they didn't wash the dishes on my week, I wasn't washing them.

So I would walk past them, look at them and keep on going. And then everybody would do the same thing because we all hated washing dishes. And then my mother would come home after cleaning somebody else's house, right? Her kitchen needed to be clean so she could cook for us. And then she'd see last night's dishes. And when I tell you, you know,

let me see if y'all understand this part of it. Florida Evans, good times. Of course. The damn, damn, damn. Well, you could have did a hundred damn because every single thing in that sink, my mom crashed out in these young people's terms, she crashed out on those dishes

and left them there for us to clean up and for us to fit for ourselves as far as dinner. I just know that every mother listening right now is just having a sacred moment of celebration. So she reduced us to just only eating with paper plates, which is what you deserved. So I wanna talk a little bit about your mom because I can imagine the coach and the player

you had a lot to do with her. Can you tell me like what leadership ideals or principles do you still employ in your current life because of your mama? My mother really was the sweetest, like the sweetest. She would give her last to anyone, to anyone. But my mother had a short fuse for injustice or a short fuse for anyone she felt like

was being taken advantage of, whether it was her, whether it's a stranger, like she would speak her mind, even though she had nothing to do with the situation. It was just a mere fact of, she felt like somebody was getting taken advantage of. And I'm gonna give you an example of, we would go Christmas shopping, right? We go to the mall and my mother didn't drive.

So one of us was driving. And if we turned our blinker on to go into a parking space, and somebody zoomed in a parking space. Mm-mm, mm-mm. Now, she would make us park behind the car and wait for the people to come back out after shopping so she could get off of her chest what that person did. So for me, I'm probably not to that degree,

but to the degree of this. Now, I travel a lot. Like I got a lot of frequent flyer miles. I go to places and I got so many mileage that I got status. I got status. So I get to go to the line I got so many mileage that I got status. I got status. So I get to go to the line, the first class, the priority line. And there was an instance where I'm in the front of the line

and there's somebody in the back of the line. This man was in the back of me. And the service woman was like, sir, can I help you? Right, like, I don't know if they were calling me sir. But I don't think. You don't know what to be offended about. I don't think I look like a man either, but he was calling the guy behind me.

And I'm looking around like, and then the first question she asked me, are you first class? And I said, yes, I'm first class. And then she was like, okay, come up. And then I had to tell her, this is very my mom like. And I told her, no, actually, I'm nicer than my mom. Right? I said, you're not going to mess my day up. I told her, I said, you're not going to mess my day up. So her service was nice after that. But I just told her that I'm just gonna keep a cool head and you're not gonna mess my day up

because it was early in the morning. So it's things like that, that because of my mother, I can't let it go. It is actually not for me, it's for the next person. So it's not for me, I'm gonna get through, I'm gonna get by, but it's for the next person that you assume doesn't have the status to be in that particular line. I love that, the standing up for yourself

is standing up for the next person. That is it. Absolutely. I think that that's so important. And it reminds me of the story when you were at UVA and the Dean called you in and said some things to you. Can you tell us a little bit about that story? Well, I remember I am shy by nature. Everything about me, I didn't talk a whole lot.

I'm the youngest, so you don't really get an opinion. You don't. You just got to sit there and just kind of listen, observe, so you don't really get an opinion. You don't, you just gotta sit there and just kind of listen, observe, and you sharpen those skills, because I was a great listener, I was a great rules follower, but UVA was incredibly hard.

I almost got kicked out of Virginia, because I had a bad first year, bad first year. And at Virginia, we don't say freshman, sophomore, junior, we don't say that, we bad first year, bad first year. And at Virginia, we don't say freshmen, sophomore, junior. We don't say that. We say first year, second year, third year, fourth year. So I had a really bad performing first year in a classroom. So my coach, Debbie Ryan, she set it up real nice. She set the alley-oop real nice.

The only thing I had to do was reach up and dunk it. So she set this meeting up with the dean and the dean was the person that was gonna decide whether or not I stay at UVA or I had to take a year off just from inadequate academics. So I'm shy, like I'm really, really shy and I'm going and sit down in front of the dean. And I'm like, no eye contact, none of that.

So the dean is saying her piece, you know, what types of things can you do to help yourself? What kind of mechanisms, right? And I'm not really saying anything. And then she says, you're gonna have to conform to the way we do things here. And then, you know, like conform. I'm from North Philly, we got our way. I don't conform to anybody.

That's my bubble talking. That's not, you know, me actually using words, but people who don't talk a whole lot, we do talk with our expression. So I probably just scrunched my face up and just listened. Then when I walked out of there, I know that Dean stamped, kick her out, she's not ready.

She can't handle the rigors and she can't handle how we do things here and she can't live up to the standard of UVA So Debbie Ryan, thankfully She knew the type of fighter I was she knew that I just needed a little bit more Tapping into the very thing that to this day When my back is against the wall, you know, I fight. And I had to use competition to increase my ability to learn, grow, acclimate, conform to the ways in which you had to at UVA.

So Debbie got me another chance and I just started competing with my classmates like I was out there on the court. And then it made sense to me after that. Like the very things that are you, we tend to forget when we're going through something that's new and difficult. But when you really think about it, I'm the most competitive person you'll ever meet.

But I never looked at my teammates as the opposition. So when I started to do that, I started to utilize the resources to get the results that I needed to get in the classroom. And I started utilizing the tutoring at UVA. I found out that I couldn't really listen and take notes because it's hard. So I got somebody to take notes for me

because that was a resource that I use. And then I would just listen to the professor's lesson. So it was just all of those things. Like if I keep making the same mistake on the court, I'm gonna watch film to see why I'm making that mistake and how I can do things differently. It's the same in any other difficult situation. For me, it was academics.

But also college, it's a system that you have to learn. Like, talking to your professors, showing interest in your academic status. I know that from experience, but I certainly know it and just finished in my 20, 50 year of coaching. I'm just finishing my 20, 50 year of coaching. Hey, what's up, Flies? This is David Spade.

Dana Carvey. Look, I know we never actually left, but I'll just say it. We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall. Every episode, including ones with guests, will now be on video. Every Thursday, you'll hear us and see us chatting with big-name celebrities. And every Monday, you're stuck with just me and Dana.

We react to news, what's trending, viral clips. Follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere you get your podcasts. OK, I have to talk more about what you said, a little bit about the competition, because it's fascinating to me in my own experience with that word and that experience and what it's about. Have you done any like real thought and analysis on yourself as to why you're so competitive? Like where does that come from? Well I think very early on, I'm the youngest. Like everything was a competition in my household

because I had older siblings and it's a pecking order. I didn't tell y'all this, but my oldest brother and myself, we share the same birthday. Like I don't even have a birthday of my own. Oh no. Right? So I think it just comes from being the youngest, right? And I think it comes from being a girl

that played a boy sport. Like I was the only girl in my neighborhood that played basketball. I played tackle football. I played baseball. Like everything the guys were doing, I was doing, and it came with ridicule, it came with perception of you not being good enough.

Yeah. I'm working twice as hard as them, twice as hard to be accepted, and then because of that, you know, I had a burning desire and an insatiable desire to be better than them. So that stirred my competitive juices so much that it became like really who I am. It really is still who I am. And I navigate from my competitiveness. Like I sit here and we lost damn near by 30 to UConn.

Right? Like I really can't believe it twice. Like what's a talented team, but then you have to put things in perspective. I know what that felt like. Like I know what it felt like to be dominant because that's what they were. They were truly dominant.

Like you, when you've been there before and you've been on the other side of it, you understand that sometimes the synergy they took into the tournament, it was just their time. Because it was just our time, just last year. And then you have to get better. Like they got better players, they got healthy, and you got to tip your hat and respect that dominance.

And if you've never experienced that dominance, which a lot of talky heads on social media, they've never experienced dominance to respect it. They start taking stabs at our players, like they're not good enough, they start taking stabs at our players, they're not good enough, they start taking stabs at me, like I can't coach, I got out coach,

it's all of these things. When it's more about respect and they had an incredible run that no one was beating them in this particular year. I think that that's so fascinating. And I want to talk a little bit about that, that this idea of competitiveness, like the ultimate form of competitiveness is to be truthful

and honest in the respect when you're dominated. Yes. That is next level. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, how do you come to that? Understanding with being so competitive One you understand it because you've been on the other side of it two It's the very thing that drives you to get better

Like to never feel what you felt and do something about it. I'm sitting here today, I spent this past weekend entertaining recruits to get better, like to get better. If we win a national championship, I don't know if we have who we have on campus this past weekend. I don't know because we're probably preparing for a parade. We're probably doing so many other things except trying to get better.

And although I don't stay drunk off of our success because I always want to get back and continue, but during this time, it's where teams who aren't the number one team in the country, who didn't win the national championship, this is the time that you get better. Are you more comfortable in that getting better time or the post-mountain, like the climbing or the mountaintop? Because when you're talking, I'm thinking about in your book when you talked about post-gold

medal, how did you feel after you won the gold medal? Abby and I talked about this for an hour after that part in the book. Relieved. When I got my first gold medal, I mean, it was the only thing that I wanted to do as a child was win a national championship and win a gold medal because that's the only time that I saw women play, live on television. So those two things were my goals. And since my friends who grew up in the projects,

again, we really didn't have anything besides ourselves and pride, right? So I would verbalize that that's what I wanted to do. And then my good friend would verbalize that that's what I wanted to do. And then my good friend would antagonize me that I wasn't good enough, you're never gonna do that. And it wasn't a friendly, playful manner, but the really competitive me probably wanted to stab him

in those moments, right? But I used it to make good decisions, to increase my chances of actually accomplishing those things. And when I did get my first gold medal at 26, that's my lifelong dream. And I got it at a fairly young age. And then once I got it, I got it, I went into a short, I didn't know what to do.

I didn't wanna do anything else. So I went into a period where I never felt like this before. When you win stuff, you wanna be greedy. You want more and you want more and you want more. But for me, it was like, what do I do now? And then I had to go right into like the ABL because there were two leagues that started after we won the gold medal in 96.

And I couldn't get myself to play. I couldn't get myself to practice. And this is my love, like basketball is the very thing that I absolutely love to do. And I didn't even know where to turn besides just don't do it. I don't feel like it, so I'm not gonna do it. I didn't talk to anybody.

Like, you know, nowadays you have mental health specialists and coaches and all of these things. And when you grow up in the projects and when you're from North Philly, that's taboo. Like you don't go tell your feelings to anybody. And I didn't, but I got through because I looked at Lisa Boyer, who's been coaching with me for the last 23 years

of my 25 year coaching career. She was my coach at the time and she was very accommodating and she allowed me the space to just kind of decompress. And then it got to a point where I'm like, I'm letting her down. My teammates who are, you know, with the Richmond Rage at the time,

I'm letting them down. Like they expect me, they need me, they want me, and then I'm not there for them. And they're going through training camp and I'm here just not being able to get myself together. So when I started thinking outward instead of inward, like me, me, me, me, I started thinking about them, them, them and team. I kind of

snapped out of it. And then once I got down there, you know, it was like putting on an old shoe and I was back. I snapped out of it. Yeah. Team thing. I wonder how individual sport athletes recover from post-medal. Well, it's happened to me, Dawn, you know, I'm also a gold medal winner. And after I won, I gave myself the anthem to celebrate. And then I'd step off and I just felt down. It's like the post Olympic gold blues. They call it gold medal syndrome.

And it's literally a phase because there's this huge lead up to the Olympics, a huge prep, the whole tournament feels like another world. And then you reach your goal, you get this gold medal that you jumped off your whole life. And for me, I wanna ask you this, like it didn't give me the thing that I was in search of. It, yeah, it was fun. I loved it. I wouldn't give it back, but I was in search of something else.

Is your competitiveness and your desire to win, are you searching for something there? And have you found it if you are searching? For the most part, I've never really been selfish about winning. It's always been for other people. Like I really took with me to the Olympics in Atlanta, my hood, like I took my hood, I took North Philly into the Olympic games.

And there's something about that pressure, that pressure, not even a pressure of, you know, the country, although you get super patriotic when you're playing in an Olympic game, super like ultimate, like the ultimate, right? But for me, I was bringing in, I felt like I had to do this

for all the people in North Philly. Like my hood, my projects, everybody that was tuned in to watch wanted, like I couldn't let them down. We had to win. And that was pressure in itself. And then every time that I experienced this, it's always for someone other than me.

And I do think basketball is a debt that I'll never be able to repay it. For all is done for me and like my, you know, and Philly and my players and my coaches and everybody that's helped. Like I feel like I can never check off that debt because it touches so many lives. You know, I don't have any kids, but my nieces and my great nieces and my nephews

and everybody that comes behind us, they're going to see something different. Yeah. And they're going to strive for something different. And then everybody that is from my hood, they felt what I felt. Because I allowed that every, you know, if I go back to 96, I know I talked about North Philly. I know I talked about where I was representing. Just everybody in my basketball journey, because everybody that's in your basketball journey

has touched you, good or bad. Like you got haters, you got doubters, you got supporters, you got the mirrored of people that contributed to the moment. And I'm so appreciative of all of them. All of them. I want to talk a little bit about coaching and you know, you played professionally for many years and started coaching with Temple. I want to talk about like your coaching philosophy and early days

you had mentioned that you were putting process before people and I thought that that was really interesting. Can you talk about what that means? Like I never wanted to coach. I was so much a player that although I had some great coaches, none made me feel like I wanted to be them. Like none of them made me feel like, you know, to me, the gratification was in the people who are actually doing it. Like the players. And then I was asked to turn Temple Women's

basketball program around, which I was asked two questions, right, two. One was, can you lead? And then I'm like, can I lead? I mean, I was the captain on every team that I played for, so I mean, I can leave. And then the next question that this AD asked me, and I was just meeting with him because it was Temple,

it was North Philly. They knew I was coming back because I was training with the 2000 Olympic team. The final four was in Philly. So I felt I had to go meet with him because he asked one, because I'm from North Philly, two, three. He knew I was going to be there. And then I sat down with him. He asked me those two questions.

Can you leave? And then he said, can you turn Temple Woods basketball program around? To me, that sounded like a challenge. And I'm drawing the challenges. I'm super drawing the challenges. And he's done with me with that. Cause I wasn't taking that job. I'm a player, like I'm about to play the Olympics

in Australia, Sydney. And then he said, well, can you come down the hall and meet some other people? Right, I'm like, sure, I'm here. So I walked down the hall. He sits me at the head of a conference table with like 10 or 12 people sitting around this table. And they're asking me all these questions like,

where do you see yourself in five years? I said, playing in the WNBA. And they're asking me all these career questions. Y'all, I was on an interview and I didn't even know it. They were interviewing me for the job. Now, granted, I'm 29 years old. The only interview I've had is a tryout. Yeah, right. Right.

Right. So I'm just being as frank as can be because I'm ignorant. I didn't know what was happening. So no, I don't see myself as a coach. No, I don't see myself like John Cheney, who is a legendary coach. No, I don't see myself like John Cheney, who was a legendary coach. No, I don't see myself like that. I'm just, y'all, two weeks later, I took the job. Oh, my God.

I took the job for this reason, because I thought about young people. Like, I thought about their experience being 18 or 22 year olds and how my experience as an Olympian, because it's utopia for me to represent the United States in the Olympic games. Like you have teammates who only think about winning, right? Only thing, they don't care who gets what attention, what spotlight.

It was, we did it together. We had fun. We had knock out, drag out arguments trying to get better. We would compete at the highest level. We would sharpen each other's iron and we would let nothing come in between us and go. Like nothing. So I bottled all that up.

And I'm saying, if I can help young people come together like that in a game that we love, why not? Why not? Again, I made decisions based on not me. Like I was good with playing, like I'm good, let me play this out. But I started thinking about young people,

all the players there at Temple and how I can help change the trajectory of their life and their perception of their life and to give them something that basketball gave me. Like I was so prideful. I was so like competitive. Like I had a place to put all these things and I wanted to give that to somebody

because it felt so good that I know I want people to share in that feeling and look what happens. I think I get more gratification from coaching than they probably get from playing for me. And again, this that old, that basketball thing where it's the gift that keeps on giving. And I'm not trying to, I only had one goal as a coach.

Once I started coaching, really started coaching. And that is I wanna be in a hall of fame for coaching. Like the only goals I had were those Olympics, national championship, and then when I played long enough to know that there was a Naismith hall of fame, selfishly I wanted to be in the hall of fame. And now selfishly, I want to be in a hall of fame as a coach

because one, it allows me to just kind of give the credit to all the players and coaches that I coach with. Like, cause it's not me as a coach. Yes, my name will go in, but you know how, how many people were all heads on deck for that to happen? And it's a way for me to pay homage to them. So coaching found me, like really, it really did find me

because I didn't seek it out. But again, my heart took me to that place. It's so clear that all you do is in service. And there are moments in our lives where in order to be of service for the next person or others, we have to stand up for ourselves, like you did in the airport, like your mother did at the meat counter, which we're going to have to get to. So can you tell us what you knew you had to do after you saw Sedona Prince's video during the COVID bubble. Tell us what the video was and then what it was a catalyst for you to do at USC. So during COVID, all the teams that made the NCAA tournament

on the men's side and women's side, we all played in the same city. And I mean, social media is it was prevalent back then and 21. And what we saw was a I mean, it was L.A. fitness at the men's tournament. Like seriously, it's an L.A. fitness planet, right? It's back in the middle of the men's city and where the tournament was being held.

And then where we were, I mean, literally, it was just a yoga mat and like two barbells and a stand. Like it wasn't even a full barbell stand. It was just like two dumbbells and just Donna Prince, who was probably very know, probably very savvy when it came to, you know, tick tock and Instagram. And she put it on her account and there was an explosion of the comparisons, the, everything that was lacking on our end.

And then they started putting out, you know, what they got as far as gifts and what we got. It just didn't sit right with me. And I'm not knee jerk. I really am a processor. So I try to sit with it and see if it's a look, sound or feel like, you know, this is, it's a lesson in a book where if something looks,

sounds or feels off, I got to address it. Yes. And if something looks, sounds or feels great, I'm going to promote it and encourage it. So good. So I didn't knee jerk it. The next day. I felt like I had to address it, you know, and just writing an open letter about the disparities in the men's and women's game. And then us coaches started to get together and talk about how we fight this,

how we prevent this from ever happening again. And we had to amplify it. We had to give in our platforms and lift our game up coach by coach. And then I got back home. We ended up going to the final four losing in the semi-finals. And then I went back home

and it was time for me to renegotiate my contract. You know, process and things. I'm like, I'm fighting nationally, you know, for and things. I'm like, I'm fighting nationally, you know, for equity in our sport. And yet at the time, I was probably the most successful coach on campus. The men's coach that was here

had not had the success that we had. But when you look at his raises, not his salary, men are going to, it's just normal that they just make more than you. Just a normal thing. So we get used to that, right? Get used to that.

But then when you see the success that he had, the success that I was having, and he was getting more of a raise than I was getting more of a raise, I'm like, I can't be out here fighting on a national level. And I can't even get it straight here on our campus. Yeah. So I asked my agent to step down. Let me do something a little bit different, because my ass

is a lot different than a normal race. And he didn't want to step down. He wanted to give it a shot and fight. But we had been through this renegotiations for probably five or six times by then. And they always get to a point, because you build up a rapport with my agent and AD, and they always get to a point where they're like,

oh, we don't have any more money. Yep. Like, okay, okay, I'll settle, right? So, but this time I told him what I wanted to do. I want an equal pay, not equal raises for success. I want what he's making. Yes. Right? Yes. Right?

So I hired a lawyer, local lawyer, Butch Bowers, and Butch believed in it. He said, you're the best coach on this campus. You deserve this. And he's speaking the same language I'm speaking. And then it didn't hurt that he was kind of best friends with the Charitable Board, like they're besties, they vacation together.

He knew all the legislators. He knew everybody, right? He knew all the players. So he started the negotiation process with our AD and it stalled for a long time. I mean, we started in April and we finished in October. Right, it took that long. It took that long.

And it went back and forth. And throughout the process, you know, the AD would, we had a really good relationship. You know, he would call for something else, but then we got into the negotiations. And I think they were probably at just a million dollar raise. Right. And he's like, you're going to leave all that money on the table? And I said, I'm not going to leave it on the table, but if you're going to give me a billion dollar raise,

you're not far off from where we need to be. Right. And we're not even supposed to be talking because he needs to be talking to the lawyer, not me. You know, but he had to bring it up. And I just, you know, we went back and forth and back and forth and I told him, I was like, you can actually look good from doing something like this from a national level.

But I also know that when you're in the room with your peers, like other ADs, you know, he could probably be the one that they're saying, man, why you do that? Why you start this? Why you start this trend? So there's the pressure of that. I understood that, I really did.

You know, but when you look at the type of success our program was having, you can make a case for it. Like you can make, is it an anomaly? I don't know, but you know how to talk the talk, to make yourself still look good and still make yourself feel like you're still one of the boys in the room, even though you did this,

you opened the door for such things to happen. Then finally, the president got involved. They got to the place where it was equal pay, and we made a big stink out of it, which was good. Because during that time, the women's soccer team, the national team was going through their thing. During the negotiation of mine,

you know, there was a special CNN I watched that, and they gave me more power to continue my fight. They did. To see their fight, you know, to see your fight. Like it gave me, like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And I feel like it was a selfish act on my part. But again, I was comfortable. I was making a lot of money,

but it's really not for me, it's for the next coach. It's for the next sport. It's for what we should be getting for our successes. And I always bring up revenue. Like you're not revenue producing. Says who? No, we don't get $2 million a year. You know, every time there's a tournament going on, the men get that each school participating school and the NCAA tournament, they get $2 million. Right? units is what they call them. But you can't

tell me I walk every day. And my walk path takes me all around this campus, right? And if they knew how many students come up to me and tell me that they came to school because of watching women's basketball, that's tuition, right? That's right. You can't tell me that we have sellout crowds, right? Concessions cost, it all costs. You can't tell me we're not revenue producing, right? We are revenue producing.

You can't tell me the amount of impressions that our school gets because we're in the Final Four for the last five years. Right. I know because every time that we go to a final four board members want to come, you know, the president is always there. They're holding meetings with donors that more money's coming in to entertain at the women's final four. So we are revenue producing. And I just think it's really hard for people to swallow.

Like on this campus today, on this campus today, I know there's a lot of animosity towards me for how much I bake. Really? Yeah, I know there are people that make it really hard for us to get the things that we need to get because they don't feel like I should be making the type of money that I'm making And it's a shame. It really is a shame because you know

They got daughters like you got daughters And you feel this way. You don't feel like your daughter should get what her worth is or what she deserves because of the successes. I really don't get it. I don't throw it in people's faces. I don't, but I do stand up and I do speak out on injustices and equities, inequalities, that I hope that if there are women on this campus, that they can speak up for what they deserve.

Professors on this campus, you know, are female that are doing just as much or more than their male counterparts should be paid as such. And I hope I've set that example to where everybody will be brave enough. You know, sometimes you do have to risk it all. Like I was willing to risk it all. And I will say this in my negotiations,

if they weren't gonna give me the raise, then give me a zero buyout. So fair trade, because I know my worth. Don't not give me what I'm worth and hold me to, you know, buyouts are like three times more than what you make. You can tell your value by your buyout. Ah, interesting.

Yes. So you're coaching them then though. You're not on the court, but you are teaching them through your own personal struggle with the school, what they do next in the next place, in the next room they're in where some man tells them there's, we don't have the money. It's just so you're a 360 coaching them how to be in the world, how to step in the world. It's so beautiful.

Yeah. I just want to say from this house to yours, what you do, how you do it, the emotion you bring to the sidelines is important. And standing in like your complete self all the time and bringing so much joy to people and bringing so much joy to people. And also being an activist just by living and breathing and being the person you are is just so important. And I know it's tiring at times because gosh, can't we just play ball? Can't we just play ball

and not have to deal with all this shit? But unfortunately we're in positions that are us taking space is just an act of protest in a way, an act of revolution. And you are a walking fucking revolution sister. I am so grateful that you came on this podcast to talk to us today. Thank you. Thank you. Your platform reaches so far and you unapologetically, you all keep doing what you're doing.

You inspire us. You give us stamina to continue to do what we do. And I really appreciate you all. And thank you for my extra street cred for being on the podcast. Back at ya. Back at ya. Yeah, thank you for the extra street cred. Amazing.

Alright, everybody, go pick up Uncommon Favor. Whether or not you play basketball. That's right. It will help you in every room you're in, know your worth and live through service. Your mom would be so proud of you right now. Coach Staley, thank you for everything. Thank you.

See you next time, Pod Squad. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

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