We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Eff Perfection: Let’s Rest in the Rubble Together

Episode Date: December 23, 2021

1. What if we deleted the picture in our head of how it’s “supposed to be,” and looked at “what is” right now, as enough? 2. What makes a good apology–and why we shouldn't pretend that it is possible to reorder what we did to people. 3. Glennon describes “the ache”–and how it’s really love, coming and going, and making life more beautiful. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Hi everybody! Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. It's a special week out and about.

It's a big one to be about to be Christmas. For some of us, thanks for spending your time with us this week. I've been thinking a lot about the Christmas story and how it has always been so deeply important to me. So much so that once when Craig and I were married and Chase was a baby, I volunteered our entire family to be married, Jesus and Joseph at our church Christmas evenativity play. Just because I just wanted to be closer and closer to the story. I just needed to be closer to the story. I needed to crawl inside the story somehow. And so we we volunteered. I volunteered. Poor Craig, such a good sport in his robe right? Like having just found himself in the center of a confusing insta family with a young wife,

completely convinced that her new baby boy was God himself. Exactly. My life and my understanding of the Jesus stories has changed so much over the past two decades. But those stories are still equally precious to me. And maybe more precious to me since I started understanding Bible stories and all religious stories really, not as historical reports that reveal facts about our shared world, but as literary works that reveal truth about our shared humanity.

And my favorite way to hear the Christmas story ever is from Linus in Charlie Brown Christmas special. Oh my God, when he stands up in that spotlight and he holds his little blankie and he tells that story, oh my God. That one slays me, but every time I hear it, no matter who is telling it, I'm just all goosebumps and chills and tenderness and truth. Because how I understand the story is this. So long ago, a whole culture of people was suffering,

oppressed by power and collective deep pain. And they had been hurting for so long, but they still yearned. They had this deep collective yearning, because in their bones, they knew there was a promise in the air, some kind of promise in the air of hope, of comfort, of justice, of freedom, of peace, of saving. Right? And leaving, right? And so they waited with this expectation. And they expected their rescue, their relief to come in the only form their culture had promised that power could come, right? In a shiny king, right, with money in the right family, someone much different from them and their families, someone better. And of course they were right about the promise in the air. I hope did come but not at all in the form they were expecting it to come. Not in royal robes and castles and gold. But in a cold, dirty barn wrapped in rags with a young scared outcast couple. Hope was right there with them, just like them, in a child like theirs and a home poorer

than theirs and people more powerless and forgotten than they were. Power and hope and peace were there, but not separate from them, with them. Emmanuel, God, love, peace, hope with us now. Which is why it's so confusing the message of Christmas today, the all-shininess and optimization and extensive gifts and perfection, because that couldn't be further from the original idea of Christmas, right? The original Christmas idea is actually not religious, it's not Christian, even it's spiritual, it's cosmic, it's for all of us,

it's actually the theme of this podcast, it's that God, love, beauty, truth its spiritual, it's cosmic, it's for all of us, it's actually the theme of this podcast. It's that God love beauty, truth, hope, whatever You call that thing we yearn for. It's always in the place we least expect it It's always in the last place. We tend to look for it, which is of course right where we are Right where we are ready are right now. The idea is about how we yearn for comfort, for relief, for saving, for hope, and we think it will come. How our culture promises that us, it will come. It'll come when we make more money, it'll come when we fix our relationships. When we get skinnier, when we get smarter,

when we get shinier, when we get richer, when we get more successful, but it's not coming, it's never coming, it's always only already here. It's not separate from our messes, it's inside of them. It's always been with us in us now. Now in our messy busted up homes and families and friendships and bodies and minds and hearts. Hope and love, magic. It's not apart from our lives, with a different kind of person or family or life.

It's here now. And so as this year comes to an end, let us quit turning away from our lives and instead toward them. As we quit chasing the shiny, let us just sit down and rest in the rubble together. Because hope and magic and the promise of Christmas, it's right here, right here in the rubble of our lives,

with us. It's just us in the dark looking up at the stars together. So thank you for sitting with us in the rubble this year. You have given us hope and peace and joy and we promise to keep trying our best To return that to you each week. I Was really beautiful. Thank you, Perry. Wow. I Love that. I love that. I love that because it's also like in the rubble, made me think so much of all of the holidays

where life felt like rubble, you know, and it's such a weird moment to be in, in all the celebration of all of the things that are right in the world, and families, and relationships, and health, and all of it, when those things are in rubble in your And I love that just it's already here. All of the magic that you're seeking isn't like completion away, isn't a fix away. It's like the magic is the same inside of every person.

It's like you already have the stuff. Yeah. There was one point where things were such a mess in my life. So much rebel. And the world, like everything was shit, basically. And I remember Liz Gilbert writing to me and saying, the challenge is when nothing is well, remembering that all is always well. Like there's some ground, there's some foundation, foundation beneath the rubble that is absolutely unshakable.

And the thing is that that foundation is always there. Whenever I catch myself waiting, I know that's off. And that's, that's interesting because there's so much of hope that's supposed to be forward looking, I guess. But to me, that doesn't work anymore. Because if I'm holding out for hope for something to be coming, that doesn't bring true because it's always love and enoughness and power and peace is, it has to be now.

And let's not forget, you know, this holiday season for a lot of us wasn't really happening last year. Visiting with family and I don't know, I just, I think this whole year for me with family and I don't know, I just, I think this whole year for me has been really interesting to try to see other people experience presence more because we were so much in the wanting a year ago of a future world, of a different world. And this year has been, you know, as the world has started to open up even a little bit, it's watching people choose presents more. And I think that that's why this, what you just said, gee, it's like so powerful.

It's like right here in the now, be here right now. It will only be good enough if and when we decide it's good enough. It's beautiful. And that's different from positive. That's different from like, oh, be happy with what you have. Don't even be happy. Don't be happy. God forbid, that's the last, we're not saying Merry Christmas to you. As my therapist says to me, in smiling with delightment to be a compliment, we just have so much fertile ground. So much fertile ground. Basically meaning that I will never ever get to stop going to her. But I mean, it is everywhere we are as fertile ground. Really, there's gifts in

all of it. I love this little line. I think it's have these that says, what if right here, right now God once circled on a map for you? You know, what if just like right here, right now, this is it because a theme of this whole podcast has been, you know, the thing that screws us up the most is the picture

in our head of how it's supposed to be. So what if we just deleted that idea of that, and we just looked at what is, found it to be enough? That's cool. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer, and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs.

And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, Girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them.

She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get to some questions. Let's hear from Lauren. Hi, Glennon, Abby and Amanda.

My name is Lauren. I am calling after listening to Esther Perral answering relationship questions and she's talking us right now after listening what it means to end the relationship and end it the right way. And I know I missed S there, but I'm actually wondering what it means to repair or say sorry because I have a relationship that I didn't end the right way. And this was about 10 years ago, but I think about him often because I feel that I hurt him and I feel that I owe him an apology and a repair, but I'm not sure if entering into his life

at this point would be more selfish than hopeful for him. So I'm wondering if you guys can maybe touch on your stuff on repairing and apologizing and when it's appropriate or when to just let it go. Thanks so much. I live for your podcast. I love this question and I love this question for this moment we're in right now because I feel like a lot of people, whether intentionally or not at this point of the year kind of have this introspection and you know some kind of self-audit of the year and you know what what has happened what

they've done kind of looking back to say what do I wish had been different what I wish I had done differently and what what can next year be like if I were to be more intentional about some changes. I think Lauren is probably ahead of 90% of people in thinking through the intention behind her desire to reach out to this person she was in a relationship with. And I think it's so such wise modeling. And I'm so grateful that she sent it in. For me,

sometimes when I have wanted to go back and apologize for something, it's been to relieve myself of a burden. When I really get down to it if I'm being super honest, I want to apologize because I don't want other people to think I am shitty. Yes, or at least that I stayed as shitty as I was.

Yeah, so you're not really doing it for them, you're protecting your own reputation. Yeah. 100%. Yes. And I think that that is a first question that is a beautiful one to ask. If you are thinking about reaching back out

and to apologize to someone, you have to ask yourself, are you looking to be unburdened? Are you asking anything of that person, and not directly, but do you have some kind of expectation or desired outcome, even if that outcome is their different perception of you? Because if that's the case, then you are actually just further burdening them.

Getting them another job. Who's it for? Right. It's like, if it isn't a complete sentence, if you're not just saying something to say it without any expectation of any change in anything, then I think it could be selfish. And I think that she used the word repair, which I think is such a beautiful word. And I love it because that word means to put back in order. So when we're talking about regrets from our past, it's funny to use that word

because there is no going back in reordering. I mean, we literally can't go back and put in order. And sometimes I think when we're apologizing what we are asking other people to do, other people that we hurt is to pretend that we can go back and put it in order. I hurt you. I feel terribly about it. Can you go back and put it in order so it hurts less for both of us? Oh, God. And... It's really good. Oh, God. And that is the kick in the shorts about life is that it is not possible. And we shouldn't pretend that it is possible, that we can reorder what we did to people.

That's really, really, really, really something. There's that famous quote that so many people use about the meaning of forgiveness, and it's that forgiveness means giving up hope that the past could be different. And I think we usually think about that in terms of the people who desire to forgive others so that they can move on with their lives unburdened of resentment and anger. But I think we also need to be aware of it in terms of people who are apologizing that we are not asking for forgiveness, that we are not asking the person we've hurt for a hope that the past could be different.

Yeah. The repair word is, it actually has two Latin roots. And the re of it means again. And there's pararie, which means to make ready to prepare. So really, even though we can't go back, repair literally means to make ready again. So I think that we can let go of other people, the people that we've hurt making the past different for us,

but we can, within ourselves, make ready again in our own lives. So we can't always go backwards and repair, but we can prepare ourselves for different patterns, the different ways. I think the best way to apologize is to become the different person you wish you were so that you don't make those same mistakes and can you apologize without bringing that person back into the narrative of that story because it is an ego thing. There's lots of apologies that are actually burdens. Yeah. I mean, I've talked to so many people because of my experience in the recovery world and community.

You have received amends from people. The amends is an unburdening for the addict, but traumatic as all hell for the people who, and look, I know that this is complicated, but that is, I'm just telling you, that is a story I've heard over and over again. Great, you've walked into my life and done your duty so you can walk away now unburdened officially. And now you've reopened this trauma in my life and told it because an apology is kind of a story. It's like, now I'm going to tell you a story about how it really was. And now when I leave, the deal is that we're both going to agree to this new story that I've just told. Oh my God, this is actually how you fight.

I know. I know I didn't know that you were going to put that together as I was. This is how you argue. And by the way, this is where we begin from again. Yeah. We've all agreed now that this is the place we're in. The story now. Oh, that's so interesting.

So an apology is often like, can we both agree on this narrative? I'm about to present to you in which I look better and feel better. And it's an ask. Right. An apology is often an ask. Yeah. For giving. It can't be an ask. It cannot be an ask. you can't be an ask it cannot be an ask it can't be in an ask to

to Put something on record of how things went right which is what you're saying, you know back 20 years ago when this happened this is what happened so it's like offer and acceptance if you accept my apology You accept my version of what happened, right? And it can't be any kind of ask of any unburdening of you because like what what is a good apology? I think it's an acceptance and acknowledging the order that was I mean, if forgiveness is

giving up hope that the past could be different. And apology is acknowledging what was during that time and not asking them to relieve you of their responsibility for it. And I think you're exactly right of your point about kind of putting too much detail around it or any kind of just like, I did this because of this or I did this because of whatever. It's just saying, I want you to know, I mean, this happened recently with me and a very early, very early boyfriend of mine that there was a lot messed up in that relationship and it was an early formative relationship and it was really, it's one of those things. You know that sometimes like flashes of really old relationships go through your mind and

you're like, that was fucked. You actually find yourself shaking your head. Like, yeah, I flashes of life because of all of my drinking all my years. My entire memory is just flashes of, oh, is that real? Oh shit. Oh, and it's, and I shake my head to get over to, to move on. But it was so normalized. Like, I mean, nothing, it's only, it's, it's like, it's like the matrix, you know, any

relationship is like the matrix where you're in it. It all seems perfectly normal. And then when you're out of it and you get flashes of it, and you're like, wow, that was strange and odd. So this guy came back just and reached out and apologized to me. And I actually thought it was beautiful and validating of all the things that kind of unraveled for me in the years that followed.

And I always kind of wondered, like, did he think that was normal in retrospect? I think probably the most generous kind apology is it has been years since this happened. I want you to know that I think often of how much I wish that I would have treated you better. I regret what I did. I regret the way I handled it. I am so sorry for the pain that I caused. Yeah. Do you think that there is a cause for asking

if this kind of apology would be a form of an apology, like, is there a way you can ask somebody, hey, I would like to apologize, and I wanna make sure that that wouldn't be something that would trigger you or open up Pandora's box. Like, I know that where I'm getting into the weeds here. Like, permission you're asking, is there like a apology consent?

Yes. We need like an apology consent form because I've had people that have come into my life like you, like this sister, that it was not okay to me. I've had people that showed back, showed back up in my life, not since I've met you babe, don't worry, but that have reopened a wound that I hadn't really quite healed yet. So I don't know, like, what is the line here? But don't you think when you're asking for consent that that horse has left the barn?

You know, like if you're, first of all, there's also this weird kind of manipulation factor for it. If someone's trying to gain reentry into your life through an apology, I mean, I think we can safely say no impersonal apologies, no desires to have the hooks back in anyone through a connection through an apology. You know, like nothing like that, but I think, I mean, it's an interesting point you to get an apology from a different ex. It would kind of jack me up.

Yeah. I'm as you're talking I'm going through all the people who probably I could apologize you or should apologize to me. I don't want to hear from any of them. I just I'm not mad at anyone for me. There is a desire to fix things like you were saying before so that you recast yourself constantly as the good guy. We think of our lives as like stories, our lives are stories, but we always need have this desire to be the good guy, to have been the good guy. Our kids call it the main character. I'm like a main character right now when they're walking down the street. Like, so what I know is that there are plenty of times in my life and relationships I've been in where I was for sure the bad guy.

And no amount of rewriting, a narrative, I mean, right now I'm thinking of this person I was kind of friends with in college. Like I was the bad guy. And there's nothing that I'm going to do. Like it's just a fact. That is the history of it. In that point of my life, I was the bad guy in that narrative. I think it's okay. I really do. I think it's okay to have been to let go of the idea that you are going to turn yourself in certain relationships and in certain parts of your life

from a bad guy into a good guy because of the way you apologize because of the way you repair or because of the way you recast it. And actually that's not fair. That's a double trauma to the person in your past who you who knows you were the bad guy. So now you want to have mistreated me and you want me to give you permission to recast yourself as a victim when I was a victim and you were the bad guy So let's do on what if we just started Not calling them apologies, but acknowledgements acknowledge like there's there's something about apologies that suggests this Mutuality of agreement or something or that suggests suggests some reciprocity of anything.

Apology accepted. Apology accepted. Like, acknowledgment. I'm sorry. What is it that's an acknowledgment? Yeah, that's good. But even I'm sorry, what does that mean? When we were, I mean, the reason this worked is because when I was with this person, I was like 14 years old, who's 16.

You know what I mean? Like, there was no long harboring, but it was a formative time. And it's like acknowledging that that was jacked up, some of that stuff, right? And there was no ask of you. Yes. And apology is an ask like, I'm it's not an explanation. There is no explanation, right?

In an acknowledgement because an explanation also requires a rewriting as something from the other person. I agree with this whole conversation of to a large extent that a lot of offers of apology are actually requests for forgiveness. Yes. And I believe that forgiveness can only be given to yourself, whether you're the person who needs to forgive or whether you're the person who needs forgiveness.

It is only a thing that can be granted to yourself when you accept that the past can't be different. I think it's important to recognize that, but I do think there is something in this acknowledgement. I mean, I think there's a lot of us running around trying to make sense of our lives. One dream was that only other person who was there, do they have any understanding of the situation as I understand it? You know what and so there is something in that of like it's been a lot of years since this and I just want to say there's a lot. It was rare. I was there. I

remember it all too well. That's what that song's about. It's exactly wanting to have a witness to say, to acknowledge that that thing actually happened. Yes. If your acknowledgement is an affirmation of someone else's humanity that you failed to affirm during your intersection with their lives, I think that's a value because you can never get enough affirmations of your humanity, especially when it's been denied in your intimate relationships. If it is anything other than that, then it is an ask for an agreement to something with a not by definition safe person. That's right. And it's if it's not that, it's a tell me it's okay. Yeah. I need you to tell me it's okay. And we just as human beings have to be okay with some of our past not being okay. Yes, it's not okay. The way I treated many people in my life. It's not okay. The way I treated many people in my life. It's not okay. And I am okay with that.

Because we go back and put a double burden on them and a double trauma with, we went through that thing and now I need you to tell me that it's okay. Because we have the wrong, yes, because that's not our job. Our job is not to make things okay. Our job is to prepare, to make ready again. Our job is to accept and acknowledge the order that was, including the order that we contributed to that was totally F'd up.

And make ready again for a different way forward. Okay, let's hear from D. Hi, Gwinnan Abbey and sister. I'm going to call myself D for the sake of staying private and asking this question, but my cousin introduced me to Untamed and I read it in a day. Then I found your podcast through the queer freedom episode and made the mistake of listening to an omelette class and cried the whole way through. And now I just sit and off all your wisdom and the way you take life by the reins. My question is how do I combat internalized homophobia and explore my sexuality freely?

How do I decide that I deserve to be happy when that's the result of a lot of people close to me not loving me anymore? Growing up, I always wish that I could just check the first box, be fully and authentically into men and live a life that my family would accept. Now I'm in college and I feel like I'm being ripped into, deciding whether I deserve to be happy or I deserve to be loved by my entire family. How do I choose when I can't choose both? Probably so many people listening can relate to this story whether or not it's about queerness in them. Most of us have a struggle to desires, right? The desire that tragically in our culture are seemingly opposed, like mutually exclusive, which is, can I be held by my people,

or can I be free to be my individual self? And we have created groups, families, where we usually do have to choose one or the other because there's these rules, these guidelines, these cages in our family that we have to choose one or the other because there's these rules, these guidelines, these cages in our family that we have to stay in in order to maintain belonging, approval, acceptance. But D, I would suggest to you that there is a difference between acceptance and love. Okay, so what you are saying to me, D, is you are saying, I feel like I'm being ripped in two deciding whether I deserve to be happy

or I deserve to be loved by my entire family. And what you're really asking me, D, is, do I choose being happy or do I choose being accepted by my entire family? Because love does not seek to control or change someone's humanity. If you do not fully accept who you are in all your gorgeous queerness, whoever you are on the inside, If you do not choose that, you by default are not choosing love. Because it's something else. Okay, it's acceptance. We all know it. It's not rocking the boat. It's choosing your family not to be angry with you, not to to not misunderstand you. But love is by definition to me a radical acceptance of who

someone else is at their deepest humanity. And so, if you choose to ignore who you are, you are also choosing not to be loved. So you can keep their acceptance and abandon yourself. And if you choose that, you will have neither yourself nor the true love of your family. or you can choose radical exploration and self-love of who you truly are. And then you might lose the acceptance of your family, but it is the only way you will ever even have a chance at the true love of your family. Because if they cannot see you, they cannot love you. I also just want to say to clarify, some people choose not to tell their families about who they are out of safety, out of real safety issues.

And those folks, I think sometimes have it the worst. And I mean, the question you ask is, how do you deal with your internalized homophobia? And the truth is, the only way you can actually start dealing with it is to become the queer person that you likely are inside. And learn how to, at every turn turn when that homophobia comes up inside of you to work on it because it's still happening to me. And I've been outwardly gay for most of for my whole adult life. And so this isn't something that just I can say I'm going to no longer have internalized homophobia, something I deal with on the daily. So we want to end this episode talking about what I think the holidays kind of bring about in us the most.

I know that a lot of people think that the holidays bring out joy and I think that is partly true. But the way that I would describe what the holidays bring out in me is is what I call the ache. I describe this ache in a million different ways, but I think it's, it's an awareness of the tenderness. It's an awareness of the tenderness is all I can say. I've had it since I was a little kid and I, it has scared me. I just feel like I am a great ache a lot of the time. And you know, people have asked me, why are you sad? And I think that's the strangest question. Like I'm always sad. I will always be sad.

It's the sadness. I'm also joyful. It's an awareness of the fragility, danger, loss, um, separation, inevitable separation. It's, it's, it's love. That's exactly what I was going to use. But love is a double edged thing. It's like the more powerful it is to you. And the more you feel it, the more you also feel the inevitable loss of it. The terrifying nature that it can maybe not exist. I know. I will not exist. I know. Well, I don't believe that.

It will come and it will go and we will lose. And that is what makes life so beautiful and that is what makes love so unbelievably valuable. And so it is this ache that I live with, and that I know a lot of us live with. And so I think that is what the holidays bring. And that's why it's confusing, and that's why it is nostalgic in some way, because but not nostalgic for something old

that we had before. It's nostalgic for something we've never had. Yes, nostalgic for something we've never had. That's beautiful. We have it and we know that at any moment it could go. And so we don't really have it at all. We have, we're yearning for the permanence of the thing that we only have in fleeting doses. And that's the ache.

And so, this, I'm just going to read something, and this is for anyone and everyone who experiences the ache this holiday. Fast forward 10 years, I have three children, a husband, a house, and a big career as a writer. I'm not just a sober, upstanding citizen. I'm kind of fancy, honestly. I am by all accounts, humanings, successfully. At a book signing during that time, a reporter approaches my father points towards the long line of people waiting to meet me and says, you must be so proud of your daughter.

My father looks at the reporter and says, honestly, we're just happy she's not in jail. We are all so happy. I'm not in jail. One morning, I'm in my closet getting dressed with my phone rings. I answer. It's my sister.

She is speaking slowly and deliberately because she's in between contractions. She says, it's time, Sissy. The baby's coming. Can you fly to Virginia now? I say, yes, I can. I will come. I'll be there soon.

Then I hang up and stare at a large stack of jeans on my shelf. I am unsure of what to do next. During the past decade, I've learned how to do many hard things, but I still don't know how to do easy things, like book a flight. My sister usually does easy things for me. I think and think and decide that it is perhaps a less than ideal time to call her back and ask if she's aware of any good airline deals. I think some more and begin to wonder if anyone else's sister might be available to help me. Then the phone rings again. This time it's my mom. Her voice is slow

and deliberate too. She says, honey, you need to come to Ohio right away. It's time to say goodbye to grandma. I say nothing. She says, honey, are you there? Are you okay? I'm still in my closet staring at my jeans. That's what I remember thinking first. I have a lot of jeans. Then the ache becomes real and knocks on my door. My grandma Alice is dying and I am being called to fly toward the dying. I do not say, I'm fine, Mom.

I say, I'm not okay, but I'm coming. I love you. I hang up, walk to my computer, and Google how to buy plane tickets. I accidentally buy three tickets, but I am still proud of myself. I walk back into my closet and begin to pack. I am both packing and watching myself pack, and my watching self is saying, wow, look at you. You are doing it. You look like a grown up, don't stop,

don't think, just keep moving. We can do hard things. Surprisingly, now that the ache is transformed from idea to reality, I feel relatively steady. Dealing with the dropped shoe is less paralyzing apparently than waiting for that shoe to drop. I call my sister and tell her I have to go to Ohio first.

She already knows. My mom picks me up at the Cleveland airport and drives me to the retirement home. We are quiet and soft with each other. No one says she's fine. We arrive and walk through the loud blobby, then through the antiseptic smelling hallway and into my grandmother's warm dark Catholic room.

I passed her motorized wheelchair and noticed the gray duct tape covering the high speed button, which she lost her right to use when her hallway velocity began scaring the other residents. I sit down in the chair next to my grandmother's bed. I touch the Mary statue on her bedside table, then the deep blue glass rosary beads draped over Mary's hands. I peek behind the table and see a small calendar hung there, the theme of which is hot priests. Each month's priest wears a full vestment and a smoldering smile. This calendar is a fundraiser for something or other,

charity has always been important to my grandmother. My mother stands several feet behind me, giving my grandmother and me time and space. I have never in my life felt the ache more deeply than I do in that moment. As my mother stands behind me, watching me touch each of her mother's things, knowing exactly which memory I'm recalling with each lingering touch, knowing that her daughter is preparing to say goodbye to her mother's things, knowing exactly which memory I'm recalling with each lingering touch, knowing that her daughter is preparing to say goodbye to her mother and that her mother is preparing to say goodbye to her daughter. My grandmother reaches over, rests her hand on mine and looks at me deeply. And this is when the ache becomes too powerful to resist.

I am out of practice. I don't stiffen, I don't hold my breath, I don't break eye contact, I unclench and let it take me. First, it takes me to the thought that one day, not long from now, these roles will shift. I will be in my mother's place, watching my daughter say goodbye to my mother. Then not too long from then, it will be my daughter watching her daughter say goodbye to me. I think these thoughts, I see these visions, I feel them too, they are hard and they are deep. The ache continues to take me with it and now I am somewhere else. I am in the ache. I am in the one big ache of love, pain, beauty, tenderness, longing, goodbye, and I am here with my

grandmother and my mother, and suddenly I understand that I am here with everyone else too. Somehow, I am here with everyone who has ever lived and ever loved and ever lost. I have entered the place I thought was death and it has turned out to be life itself. I entered this ache alone, but inside it, I have found everyone. In surrendering to the ache of loneliness, I have discovered un-loneliness right here inside the ache, with everyone who has ever welcomed child or held the hand of a dying grandmother or said goodbye to a great love.

I am here with all of them. Here is the we that I recognized in Josie's signs. Inside the ache is the we. We can do hard things like be alive and love deep and lose it all because we do these hard things alongside everyone who has ever walked the earth with her eyes, arms and heart wide open. The ache is not a flaw.

The ache is our meeting place. It's the clubhouse of the brave, all the lovers are there. It is where you go alone to meet the world. The ache is love. The ache was never warning me this ends so leave. She was saying, this ends so stay." I stayed. I held my grandmother Alice Flaredy's paper hands. I touched the wedding ring. She still wore 26 years after my grandmother's death. I love you, honey. She said. I love you too, grandma. I said. Take care of that baby for me," she said.

That was it. I did not say anything remarkable at all. It turns out that a lot of goodbyes done in the touching of things. Rosary's hands, memories love. I kissed my grandmother, felt her warm, soft forehead with my lips, to my grandmother, felt her warm, soft forehead with my lips. Then I stood up and walked out of the room. My mother followed me. She shut the door behind us and we stood in the hallway and held each other in shook. We had taken a great journey together to the place where brave people go, and it had changed us. My mother drove me back to the airport. I boarded another plane to Virginia. My dad picked me up and we drove to the birthing center. I walked into my sister's room and she looked over at me from her bed. Then she looked down at the bundle in her arms and up at me again and she said,

sister, meet your niece, Alice, Larry. I took baby Alice into my arms and we sat down in that rocking chair next to my sister's bed. First I touched Alice Larry's hands purple and papery. Next I noticed her gray blue eyes which stared right into mine. They looked like the eyes of the master of the universe. They said to me, hello, here I am, life goes on. Since I got sober, I have never been fine again, not for a single moment. I have been exhausted and terrified and angry.

I have been overwhelmed and underwhelmed and debilitatingly depressed and anxious. I have been amazed and underwhelmed and debilitatingly depressed and anxious. I have been amazed and odd and delighted and overjoyed to bursting. I have been reminded constantly by the ache. This will pass. Stay close. I have been alive. And with that, to our beloved Pod Squad,

every single one of you who has been brave enough to live inside the ache, to every single one of you who has lost this year and loved this year and lived this year. We love you. We're going to stay in the ache with you because we really do believe that it's the clubhouse of the brave. We'll see you next time. I love that story. Bye. Bye.

We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. That's fine. you