We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - FRIENDSHIP GEMS: Best of Friendship Advice

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Featuring Luvvie, Reese, Ash+Ali, Sam & Cam. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Here we are. It's just the two of us. We're not the tripod right now. It's just sister and me. Abby had to take our youngest to school. So we are here today with you to introduce a new idea we had. All right, so here's why my teacher self has been stressed about the way we have unfolded this glorious podcast. You know this because I've been talking to you about this ad nauseam. I was a third grade teacher. Teaching was my life, was my love. I loved being in the classroom so much because every day I got to create the truest, most beautiful world in one little room

with a group of small people. Which is the only way you can create a true beautiful world is in one room with very small people. Exactly, exactly. So here's one thing that we learned as teachers. The idea with little minds and with all minds what we're trying to do with this podcast actually is

that when we introduce new ideas to brains, those brains get a little bit discombobulated. Okay, new information when it goes into a brain or is presented to a brain causes the brain confusion disequilibrium. That is good. I must be always, always receiving new ideas because I am always, only but always in disequilibrium in my brain. But actually, it is my deep belief that people who live in confusion, which also could be called awe, are the people who are truly paying attention and taking things in because everything is a freaking miracle. That Einstein thing, you can either look at the world as if nothing's a miracle or as if everything's a miracle. And people who look at the world and see it for what it is, which is a bunch of miracles, are often freaking confused constantly.

Yes. Confusion is a sign of awe or disequilibrium, constantly taking a new information. I hear it's the thing. What we learn in teaching is that you do want to create that disequilibrium with new ideas and cause the scattering in the brain. But there's a second step, which is that you have to let the scattering happen and then come back, circle back and present that new information again. And when you present that new information again, the brain settles into a new understanding. I got it. So it's kind of like you're blowing and like and everything gets unsettled.

Now it's swirling around, but you just don't want it still like scattered all around. You want to put those pieces back together in a different way. Exactly. It's like you're actually building a new thing out of the scatteredness. Yeah. You remember that horrible game that was called perfection and all you'd have like a minute and all of the pieces would explode and then you'd like put them all back together. It's like when you're teaching you teach a lesson on a new math lesson or something and you let everybody have their

scattering and go and do their homework and whatever. And then in two weeks you come back to that exact idea that you presented and the scattering is ready to then gel into a new understanding and you just keep doing that forever. So we're gelin. That's what we're doing. We're doing gelin. We're gelin. So we are going to do that now because I feel like what we have done well on this podcast is to bring people on to have these conversations that really if we're taking the feedback of the pod squad seriously, which we do, have created what we wanted. This kind of brand new way of thinking about something. The scattering has happened.

But what we haven't done is come back around to these things and encourage the jelling. Today, we've decided to start with the concept of friendship, which has been a thread She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl.

She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. She's a great young girl. it's been a beautiful thread. So today, what we've done is we've gone back and looked at those conversations and pulled out the gems, the moments where our brains were scattered, where we thought, oh, that could change the way that I live. That could change the way that I relationship.

And we're coming back to them today. We're all going to sit with them today knowing that as we revisit them, these ideas will gel further and deeper and change us. And that we are going to go from here with the next conversations about friendship. This is what we have until now, and then we'll continue to revisit all of this. So please call in and tell us what else we need to scatter on friendship and where we take the thread next.

So our first clip is from episode 61. Are your friendships draining or charging you with our dear friend, author, speaker, and bona fide friendship expert, Lovey, a jai Jones? Lovey. Lovey shared her wisdom on how to build a group of friends we can trust speaker and bona fide friendship expert, Lavi, a jaii Jones. Lavi. Lavi. Lavi shared her wisdom on how to build a group of friends we can trust with our truth and our imperfections and to take responsibility for our care.

And for whom's care we take responsibility. She also shares how to know when it's time to let a friendship go and how to release one another without hard feelings. I think a friend is somebody who you do feel responsible for some of their care, but also who you can trust yourself with. Trust your truth with, trust your imperfection with. A friend is, I think friendship is a verb,

just like love, just like sisterhood, just like community. And friendship is an action. It doesn't mean we talk every single day. Sometimes we'll go monthly without speaking. But friendship means that person is another charging station for me. That person is another charging station for me. And friendship, I was actually having a conversation one of my really good friends unique the other day.

And she was reflecting friendship to me. And she was like, you know, now more than ever, she understands the importance of that word friend and how it means like we're all getting older. We're going to be losing parents soon, you know. Friendship has to show up. The friend is not the person who just casually tells you on social media, oh my god, I'm so sorry.

The friend is the person who says, I have you eaten today. The friend might be the person being like, do you need their obituary written? Do you need me to help you write it? Like actions that are substantive, which is why I'm very careful who I consider, who I call and consider friend.

Because will I show up for you in a moment of crisis? If you are not to my who I would, show up for, I can't call you a friend. Wow, that's good. It's a boundary. It's like, it's like the Bernanipisode. Do I want to be accountable for this in the future? Do I want to be accountable for you? For you.

Correct. Correct. I have to vouch for you. I got to show up for you. So my friends, people know her friends, which means my name actually goes with them. Right? So it becomes, oh, that's one of lovey's friends, which I should mean literally even when I'm not in the room, you represent me and I represent you.

So who I also call a friend has to be aligned with my values. Because if that person is not, she would go, that doesn't match. That's lovey's friend, but she's kind of terrible person. That doesn't match. That doesn't match. You can't, I can't, no. So I think all of that values, care, love, and of course sharing joy with each other

and serving as soft place to land for each other. Like I know I can never fail truly in this world because my friends will be my soft place to land even if I fall. They won't ever let me hit concrete. They'll catch me right before the moment I do. So it also feels like safety. I love that comfort and challenge. Can you talk about knowing when a friendship is needs to be released and and how that works because where you say some people are right or die and I'm more right or surely understand why I'm done here. Why we gotta die?

Why we gotta die fam? I mean, why we gotta die? Nobody's dying. Nobody needs to die. So we're not asking you to write or die. So when you hit the Shirley, you understand why I'm done here phase. What does that look like to release a friend with love?

And how do you know? And how do you know? So I've had friendship losses over the years. And actually, who I am as a friend today is partly because of some of the friendship losses I've had friendship losses over the years. And actually, who I am as a friend today is partly because of some of the friendship losses I've had, where people have not showed up for me in a way, or they weaponized something I did or said. And I'm like, woo, the type of friend I am, I give you extra grace because I've had friends

who never gave grace. I give extra benefit of the doubt because you have to think the best of me for us to be in the community because when I make mistakes, you have to understand it's not malicious, right? So I'm the friend who was like, I must give you grace. I must give you benefit of the doubt. I will not project my shit on you

because I'm in a bad space. So when it's time to let a friend go, how you know if you no longer trust yourself with them, if you have to second guess everything you do, because you're not sure how they will receive it, or how they'll take it. If you do not trust your feelings with them, you're very persona with them, it's time to let them go, because you can no longer lean on them in the way you really need to, no, would you be present for them, because you're going to feel resentful. So I always know when it's time to let go of somebody's when I say,

you've either crossed the boundary that I can't unsee, you broke something that I can't figure out how to fix it. Or ultimately, I start seeing you as somebody who was not in integrity. And if I can't have a conversation. Yes, I have a conversation. Well, here's the thing. I also will let friends know when they do something that hurts me in a way. So like, I don't like when people will just pop up and be like, oh my God, I've been upset for the last two years. Oh God. So you've been keeping that to yourself. I think we should honor each other and ourselves and be truly honest with each other and tell the truth, especially in those hard moments.

So repairs can happen or not. Give people a chance to repair. And if they don't repair, that's a data point that you can be like, well, I guess we're done, right? So I also will have conversations along the way. And if we get to a point where I'm like, yeah, this person is not hearing, they're not doing anything different. I really can't trust them. Then sometimes I fade, not that I ghost, not that I even have like a dramatic conversation, but I become less available. Yeah. Mm-hmm but I become less available. Yeah.

I become less available. And then if they ask me, hey, this thing happened, I'll tell you, or I'll even say, let's have a conversation. And it's in that conversation that I'll go, yes, see, this feels cruel, this does not feel kind, this does not feel gentle. I can't do it. Most people waste, but I don't agree with the ghosting, where you just like, some people will block friends

on social media randomly, and that's how they know that they're not speaking anymore. Some people would like, no, like that, don't do that. Be a better person than that. It's image like, have conversations. I've had friends come back to me or ex friends who have tried to like argue with me. And I go, I'm not sure what she want from me. We can have a real conversation, but I'm not doing a

tip for tag. Let's have a real conversation, but I'm not doing it back and forth. You know, sub posting on Instagram is great for people too in Facebook, because you know, adults do that now, social media. I've seen people's whose friendships have broken up and you can be like, oh snap. Is that person supposed to sometimes friendships I've fought a season and a reason? And you're like, oh, there must be mad. There must be, there must be mad as somebody right now. I'll be watching like, take it up with the person. Take it up with the person.

Yeah. And I think sometimes we don't, we don't end things or we end things wrong because we're trying to control the narrative in terms of like, I'm the good guy and you're the bad guy and I have to wait until I can prove that perfectly and until I can explain it in a way that makes it. But that's not real. Like, sometimes it's not you, it's not me, it's the energy between us, it's the moment, it's the, I don't have to be the judge.

It's situations. It's just not. It's just not. Yeah, it's just not working. You can release each other. Right? And I think you can release each other without even having hard feelings. Yeah.

You don't have to be like, oh, I hate that bitch. No, we not friends no more. You can just be like, no, like we drifted apart. And that's fine. The person, you see them out in public say hi. Every friendship break, it's not have to be this dramatic bomb that just went off and all of a sudden this person's I hate them so much You're horrific. No, sometimes people would drift apart and that's natural like we're adults stuff happens But I think all through it tries much as you can to maintain your integrity

Yeah, and I love your advice of you don't always have to decide whether or not you like the other person or if they're worthy or if they're honest or whatever, but you do have to decide if you like yourself around that person. And if you don't like yourself and trust yourself and feel calm and safe, then that's enough information. It's enough information. There's so many people in the world. We don't have to stay right or die with the wrong ones. Are you in love with your friends?

If you're not, why are they your friends? Like in love where you're just like, oh my God. Like a care bear stare. Oh my God. I care bear stare on my friends, because I just think y'all are amazing. Are you in love with the person who is your friend, who you're sharing space and energy with,

who you're going on vacations with sometimes, who you're watching on Zoom or what's that? Being loved with the people around you. Yeah, do you feel safe enough to receive love, to from your friends? One of my barometers of like real friendship is, will I let them love me? Like, do I receive the kind of gifts or love that they want to bring me?

Do they have something to offer me that I actually will truly, deeply receive? Yes, are they a charging station? I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy.

And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread.

And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy, a new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. podcast. Next, we have a woman known in the world as being a very good friend, Reese Witherspoon. She has figured out how to maintain and show up and have friendships, be a life giving force in her life, even as busy and frenzied as her life is, you can tell she just really relies

upon the sisterhood of friends that she has. In episode 114 on Friendship, what? Like it's hard. Reese describes her system for balancing deposits and withdrawals in Friendship. That's her way of determining whether the friendships are working for her and are soul giving to her as well as soul giving to them if she checks her deposits and withdraws. And she gives us tips for making the first friendship move, which was scary and exciting to her talk about. She also gives good advice she received that she pass down to our kids about the three types of people you meet in your life and the ones to pay attention to among those three. I'm going to ask you some questions Reese and I just want you to pretend like I'm an alien who's just landed on the planet and you're

trying to explain friendship because that is in fact what's happening right now. Okay. What is friendship, Reese? Friendship is so much, but it's, it's a deposit and a withdrawal system. I think about that a lot. You can't take a withdrawal if you haven't made a deposit. That's really good. And I think about that a lot because, you know, I think people in my position and Yoss position,

it's like, there's a lot of people want to withdraw. There is, and people who have bright light or energy or caregivers or are caretakers, they give, they give, they give, right? But you got to make sure someone's putting a deposit into your friendship. And then every once in a while, reevaluate. Is this more withdrawal than deposit? Like, where is the balance here?

It's so good. I think that this is what we've figured out over the last many years, our search for more friendship, we want to feel like friends are helping us also learn more about and explore more about the world, right? And I think that we've had a couple of friends here that are doing that. And it feels so wonderful, now that we live in LA, it feels so wonderful. Reese, how do you identify a person that you want to be a friend? Oh, is that interesting? Yeah. Because it's like romantic love is like different. It's like, oh, love, feel the butterflies, something's happening. Yeah. What's friendship butterflies?

Gosh, I feel like it's a very similar thing. It is, right? I can look at a group of people and I just know the two or three people I'm supposed to get to know better. It doesn't mean that we're going to have this incredible connection, but I watched the way people interact with people. They're use of language. I think it's really important to me because I'm a words person. Looking at that, are they here to withdraw or deposit or stay neutral? Oh, this is a funny story. I Trained for this movie where I played a NCAA championship softball platter

Don't laugh Nobody's laughing. I had this really great coach and she was like a 12-time NCAA champion coach and I thought, first of all, anybody who's had coaching at that level, just the positivity that they put in these young athletes is incredible. I thought, if I'd had that when I was 22, I would have to read the 100 self-help book.

I read 100 self-help books when I was 22, 23. And she said something really smart about friendship. Her name is Coach Enquist, soon Enquist. Do you know Coach Enquist? Yeah, she's amazing. And she said, Reese, you're going to meet three different kinds of people in life. A third of the people are going to lift you up.

They're going to believe in your dreams. They're going to encourage you. You're going to encourage them. And a third of the people are going to be you up. They're going to believe in your dreams, they're going to encourage you, you're going to encourage them. And a third of the people are going to be totally neutral, they're just neutral. And you don't care about them, they don't care about you, no harm, no foul. And the other third are going to try and drag you down. Actively, whether they know it consciously, unconsciously, they are here to pull people down. And they're going to try and pull you down. And she was like, avoid the bottom third. And I talked to this, like my kids about it all the time, about finding friendships that

lift you up, see you, care about you, care about your children, care about your mom and your dad and your family, you know, try and bring and attract those kind of people in your life. I would avoid those bottom third. Because they're coming for you, man. They're coming for your light and your energy. Yes. Yeah. It's really good. Okay. So when you find somebody who's in that top third

and you get the friendship butterflies, what do you do to make the first move? I have to be brave. And for me being brave is like just jumping. Like I imagine myself as a little kid, jumping two feet in a cold pool. And you know, once you get in there, it's not as cold as you thought it was. That's right. I also think about other people like, must be terrifying to have to stand alone in a room or I think, oh, I'm going to go say hi. Why not? That's the worst thing that could happen.

Or be vulnerable. I won't tell you when I had no friends in Los Angeles. I moved right after college. I stopped out of Stanford because I got this job and I moved in this apartment. I stopped out of Stanford, because I got this job and I moved in this apartment. I didn't know anybody who's 19 years old. I had no friends and my mom came to visit me. I said, Mom, I have no friends.

And she said, there's a girl across the hallway. I had to do it like Betty would have been. There's a girl across the hallway. And she looks, she's about to reach. And I think you should just go over there and you should just ask her if she wants to have some coffee. And I was like, really? Yeah, so I knocked on her door. Oh my god. I was like, hi, and she goes, she goes, hi, hi, I'm Reese, I'm 19. She goes, I'm 19 too. My name is Heather. And I was like, I don't know anybody. I just stopped out of Stanford. I'm here by my side, because I just stopped out of Berkeley.

I was like, oh, I'm working. She's like, I'm working too. I was like, do you want to get coffee? She's my best friend, for this day. No. She's my very best friend on planet Earth. And also, y'all, don't you feel like you have such limited time?

Friendship is like this very important thing, but you got to have friends who, first of all, be able to put them on your speed dial, they'd show up if your kid was sick. Mm-hmm. And then you have to be able to hang up the phone immediately, and they don't get the feeling to her. Right.

Nice. I gotta go. Click. Yes. Literally, when you call them three days later, you just start talking about whatever you were talking about when you hung up the phone, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, Pod Squad. The next one is very special to Abby. And to me too, this one got me. In episode 102, Abby's former US national teammates, Ashlyn Harris and Allie Krieger joined us for a double date. Things got a bit teary as Ashlyn shared the story of her friendship with Abby and why she pulled Abby's final game captains band out of the trash and what she plans to do with it.

Ashlyn, you gave a toast at the wedding and during the toast, you said so many beautiful things, but you actually during the toast talked about your friendship with Abby and I didn't understand. I don't think the depth of all of your friendship. So until that toast. So tell us how you all became friends and what. Yeah. I can't wait to hear your perspective. Oh my gosh. This is so good. It's so interesting when I think back because I was so young and like it was such a vulnerable time for me and I don't know how we ended up like connecting but

Abby's ex-wife was one of my childhood friends. So that's how the connection was made. So it was my first professional year in the league and I was making minimum contract, and I just suffered a ton of injuries in college. So I was kind of just like finding my way a little bit. And Abby and I like hit it off. We were brothers from the moment. We had our first conversation. And it was such like a weird time in my life. I really believe people are like placed in certain moments

for certain reasons. When I was in that moment when I was like giving my speech, like she would let me come to terms with my sexuality because I wasn't comfortable at the time being like, I'm gay. It was, I have these weird feelings for friends and like, I don't know what's going on and I'm super uncomfortable.

And she just like loved me through the journey and was a good friend to me and showed me like how to live life. Because I came from nothing. Like I didn't experience It's very much outside my bubble and like my small world. And she just would take me on these freaking wild-ass excursions. She would be like, hey, drive your car to 95. We're doing a cross-country trip. And in RV with seven people, sure, I'll be there. I have no money, no problem. I got you.

And it's just like like we did life together. Some of my greatest memories are with you. And like meeting Ali and like coming to terms with my sexuality. I just remember sitting on your couch folding your laundry talking about that's not something. Yeah, like what gay look like for me. And it's like a really important moment in my life because she just like took care of me. And I was super young, I was super naive. I really don't think I had much to offer her at the time, but she just loved me unconditionally

and like took me under her wing. And then our friendship, we were always by each other's side. From then on out, we had each other's back, like still to this day. So good. I just remember that time. You were young, and I just remember seeing a kid who... It's not that you needed any help, because I knew you'd figured out. You're very, very strong.

And you had the kind of a moral compass that I, in many ways, wished to have. I feel like you knew a little bit more right from wrong than I did. I had a little bit of a wild streak in me. And you did too, but I think that you had an ability to pull in the reins way better than me. And I think that what you just said

touches me so much. And I think that what you just said touches me so much. And the thing that you gave me was longevity. When a new kid who comes to a team is so open-minded and you weren't filled with ego, you were like, yes, like whatever it takes. And as an older veteran player, it made my career last longer because, first of all,

made me feel like I was doing something good. And second of all, like your youthfulness made me feel like, oh, you know what, like, I still, this is something that I still wanna keep doing because you made it so easy every day in the locker room. Abby, you also knew how to get the best out of all of us. Younger players, I really appreciated that.

And not only, I know Ashton has an amazing connection with you in such a brilliant friendship story. And throughout the years, it's obviously grown so much. But I don't know if you realized like, you obviously knew what you could get out of people. And you always knew how to get the best out of us. And I just really appreciated that and I really value that about you and obviously you're one of the greatest leaders we've ever had. And I have to say like I know like we've kind of mentioned this story before but I think it's

a really important story to share with everyone is in your final game, your retirement game. one is in your final game, your retirement game. Like I understood at the time you weren't in a great place and it was like a really difficult time for you. And you, I'll never forget like plays in slow motion like a movie in my mind. You came into the locker room and you're pissed because we lost, which you should be. And you took your Captain Band and you took it off and you're sure and you just threw it into the dirty laundry. And when no one was looking, I took out that Captain Band and I took off my Jersey and I wrapped it and put it in my bag. And still to this day, I have your last Captain Man wrapped in my jersey that I wore because like that is the impact you had on the people around you. And maybe you didn't know it.

And I just knew there was going to be a time where you wanted that back. And I like can't wait to deliver that to you when I see you face to face, because that's the effect you had on people that you didn't even know. And it was so powerful and it was so moving, and that like, I need to give you back that last Captain Van. Like, that's important to me for you to have it, because that's the impact you had on the people around you. I'm not crying at all. I'm crying at all.

I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all.

I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all.

I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. I'm crying at all. our new commitment to figuring out what friendship is and to trying it out in real life to the test with our new friend, stand up comic, actor, and writer, Cameron Esposito. In episode 96, how to save your damn self, Cameron and I discussed the role we each made

to help us become better at friendship. It's a good one. I didn't realize this until just a few years ago, but I think it was pretty badly bullied as a child. I thought that's how everybody was treated. I had glasses and braces and a bull cut and I was something weird was going on with my gender and I was gaved and I was,

and I had crossed eyes, this child. There was a lot going on. And so I think I just made the joke first to sort of be like, I know what you're going to say. Well, here's an even funnier spin, right? And also to sort of have value to people when I wasn't like I wasn't able to play the game of being sort of a girl that might be valuable for some other stuff that women are valued for. That's right. This is all garbage, by the way.

Yeah, it is, but it should exist. It's true. But it was another way of making myself valuable as a friend or as a student, those types of things. So, yeah, I got super funny. And actually, I have in the last couple of years, like really wondered about the long-term viability of that skill set, because I took it to like its end. You know, I was funny, funny, funny, and then I was funny for a living, and then I was having success in that area, and then I was married, and that marriage was ending.

And it was the first time in my life that I was not, well, for a while it was like private, so I wasn't able to talk about it on stage. And then I, it was really sad. Like I was sadder than I was funny about it. That's actually a good thing because it changed how I make friends and how I use, like, overdeveloped that skill.

So I never really told anybody the truth about what was going on. I just told them like, here's the saddest thing you've ever heard, but we're all chuckling about it. You know, it broke. My sense of humor broke for a while, which actually is one of the best things that ever happened to me. That's how we started trying to be friends with each other. I wanted to talk about this. I think it's so important. It was like you and I figured out that like, oh, we just take our trauma and pain and then we spin it up and then we serve it to lots of people.

But we don't do the middle step, which other human beings do, which is talk about it with other human beings and have actual friends. Yes. You just perform it. And so we were trying to be like, you've recently reached out to me and said, I'm having feelings. And I would like to talk to you about it instead of the internet.

Yeah. Like, that was a text. Talk to us about that. This is a rule I have now. It's a rule I made for myself and who knows if rules are good, but I actually think this one is pretty good, which is that I don't bring something to the internet or to stage that I haven't told someone else. Interpersonally.

That's good. And I think part of that is, you know, when you do stand up since public speaking, and I'm sure you get this all the time, too, Glenn, and actually I even feel like I know how hard this is for you a little bit just from knowing you. People will talk about public speaking as being the most like, oh my God, I can't believe you do stand up. Like that's so hard. And I'm like, I don't know. Different people have different skills. Some people are a brain surgeon, you know, that's the first thing I'll say. The next thing

I'll say is like, that's not hard for me. Like, it's not that the skill of stand up isn't hard. You know, any skill is something you can work on over time, but standing up in front of, um, you know, 20, 200, the largest audience I've ever performed for is 40,000 people. That, that is like safe. Exactly. You know, it's much worse. Talk to one person that you have to ever see again. Oh my god. No. No, that's, that is impossible. About two thousands of people that are going to ever see again. Oh my God, no. Nope, that is impossible. About to thousands of people that are gonna leave. Great, easy. Like, yeah, no problem.

There's no intimacy there. There's some spiritual intimacy, but it's not something that you're gonna have to grow. You know, I'm not gonna have to show up and have these people know me. How is it going for you? The creating more friendships, the reaching out to human beings.

How do you feel more tethered to the earth? When you do that, does it help? What are the challenges? It really does help. I just said this, I'm repeating myself, but it's very hard for me. It's very hard to be known. It's very hard to be open to suggestion

if you're a certain type of person. I don't want people to know I don't have it figured out that feels embarrassing for some reason. We don't know why that is. That's not a healthy reaction to not having it figured out. And also, I want to move fast and loose and have spark, flame out relationships and do a completely wild job and fling my body around the country in a plane. That's like what feels normal to me. Chaos feels calming. And that really hit me. Yeah, did it? Yeah, that's

that's something. Chaos is so in my experience chill. Just like a what? Let's go. Yeah, I just feel like I can relax. I'm like, oh, thank God, finally, the world feels like I feel finally, there's not like something I'm not doing or something I could do better. Everything's so impossible that it's like, oh, I can really chill out. Wow. Cool.

So anyway, that is when I'm trying to instead have connection and friendship and have the ability to stay, the ability to like not run toward or away, but just to like hang. I'm finding that a lot in my romantic relationship. I'm finding that a lot in having friends so they go back to again and again. We really hope you've enjoyed this deep dive

of some of our favorite friendship moments. Let us know what other topics you'd like for us to deep dive on. We're gonna end this one with a laugh with our friend, the hilarious Samantha Erby. My God, if you have not listened to episode 109, do yourself a solid and listen to her she is a damn genius and so funny episode 109 is how to survive this absurd life and in that we explore Sam's friendship

theory and why she doesn't need a deep soul connection with every quote lower lowercase, a friend. I have the kind of personality that just, I don't know, I can just get along with a lot of people. I think I have been fortunate enough that I haven't ever tried to be friends someone who was so different from me, like politically, that it's been a problem. Like, I don't have any friends who hate gay people

or trans people. I don't have any friends who are like hardcore conservatives. I have a lot of like friends that I think you'd be like, mm, what the y'all bond over? And then I'll be like, well, I watch wrestling and then like it explains that friendship, right? You're like, oh, I watch wrestling and then it explains that friendship. Right? You're like, oh, you have a very narrow way of connecting

with this person. And sometimes for me, that's all it takes is we can have a shared interest in one thing and we don't have to get into other things, you know? That is so good. Yeah, it's, don't you wish, don't you? No, that is exactly how I feel. I know, babe.

And you have a barrier to entry that is so fucking long. That's what I asked. And okay, I'm trying to learn. No, I think it's so beautiful because I can, can connect with somebody on one thing. And a lot of it is, I can ignore a bunch of the other shit that I'm seeing, and I'm like, well, I like them in this way.

Yeah, and this is fun. Me too. I think so I'm not gonna guess, Glenin, why you have your rules. But I am gonna, so if this is kind of a guess, I'm gonna say that I don't need to have, and this not shade, and intimate, like, sole relationship with everybody. Right?

Like, I don't need to get to the depths of people if we're just like having a laugh or like we can talk about, you know, this one thing. Sometimes those narrow friendships, like branch out and grow, but I don't go into things being like, okay, I'm going to meet this person and I'm going to hang out with them and then I want to know everything about them. Some people you don't, you know, you don't want to know, you don't want them to know everything about you. So I think because I don't look at everyone is like a potential, like, soul friend, because I'm just like, well, this is just my buddy who I do this with,

then it's easier to, to like, let some of that other stuff fall away. I feel like you want to have deep friendships with everyone. Yes. I think that's what I'm usually, if someone's in my house watching wrestling, Sam, which wouldn't happen, but okay. I am thinking, I'm side's what I'm usually someone's in my house watching wrestling Sam which wouldn't happen But okay, I am thinking I'm side-eyeing that person thinking is this person one of my soulmates are not right and then when they roll their eyes at the wrong commercial

It's over You know It's really something I respect that because the quality of your friendships is probably really Great because you yes everyone and friends with us on this podcast. Well, so that's the thing is, well, and I think it feels like rude to call someone in acquaintance, but that's essentially the difference, right? It's like, we're friends, because I know you and I know you know me and I know

Our acquaintances who were just like oh Bob yeah, he's a good time Bob so and like Yeah, we're gonna call Bob and acquaintance because that just is like a rude word So yeah, we need like a capital S friend Yes, yes. We need different words for friends. Yes. We need different words for friends because I don't want to say Bob's my friend

because I don't want that to reflect. Right. The next thing Bob says this and then you're like, wait, why are you friends with that? Right. And different words. But don't you think it all goes back to your view of life? Like, see, I'm your view of life is I want to find the absurd.

I want to experience the absurd. I want to experience the absurd. I want to be part of seeing, being part of this, experiencing this. And so you intersect with people who can bring that out of you or share that experience with you. Glenin's view of life is very different than that. She's like, I'm going to have a very narrow but deep experience of life. And I don't actually want to participate in any extracurriculars. Right.

I do not want any depths whatsoever. I told you that's where the lava is. We could only dip a toe in there before things get dangerous. So I try to guess near the top of the volcano where it's like smoky and sexy and fine, but I only get into the lava with a few people. And I'll tell you why. That makes perfect sense. I'm not going to put it on them. I'm going to say that I have like that fear of when people really get like down and see what's in there,

they're going to be like, oh, buy. And that's one of the hazards, I think of like being a funny person, not just in life, but in my career, is that sometimes people don't think that lower level exists. And then they are surprised when they get a glimpse of it. And I'm like, all I do is write about depression. How do you think that manifests itself for real? So I think like having lowercase f friends, it like feels good to the ego, it's good to know people, it's good to have people around, but also I'm not in danger of finding out any of their dark shit and they're not in danger of finding out any of mine and thus rejecting me on account of that darkness. So.

It's good, it's a safety measure. So good, I get that. I get that. Do you sometimes feel responsibility to just always be funny and always be doing the thing? Yeah, the other people. No, I'm not entertaining them. I do. It never bothers me until I have a problem and I talk about it to someone who wants funny Sam and they're like, oh, just laugh it off. And I'm like, no, no, this is the part where you find out that I gotta go to bed

for three days about it. Sometimes it takes like a little distance. I can always laugh at things, maybe not in the moment or the next day, eventually I'll get there. There have been people who can't deal with the in the moment like, I'm not over this yet. And then you know that's never going to be your capital F friend, always going to be a lowercase. Never call that person when you have a problem. Never expect more from them than the surface that you're getting. And I think sometimes like people divide themselves into those categories for you.

My friend John, who I met like on the internet forever ago, this was like 10 years ago maybe I had posted that I was in the hospital. And we were just internet friends then and he came and visited and was the only person who visited and I was like oh you want to be here during this stuff okay you real friends but I never put that pressure on anyone because I know not everybody wants that I like to let I like to do a little sorting of my own and

then let people do it sort themselves into their capital S or lowercase S, you know. I love that. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with cadence 13 studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine.

you