We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - GET UNTAMED (Live!): This is How You Find Yourself

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

1. What Tish said when asked, “Who has taught you the most about love?”— why it was the best day of Abby’s life, and led her to redefine what it means to be a mother.   2. Glennon declares herself a great adventurer, without movement: an inner travel guide—and how the new journal will help steer us toward our next right thing.  3. How the pandemic brought Amanda’s anxieties, traumas, and relational cracks, previously on a slow burn, to center stage—and what she’s learning from “Be Still and Know.”  4. Why Glennon says whatever we’re envious of is what we need to go for—and how that led to the creation of this podcast. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today is a wild situation. I'm really excited about it.

It's an experiment. We didn't experiment on we can do hard things. So this episode you're about to hear is our first attempt at recording a podcast live with the Pod Squad. It was so fun. Oh my God, it was so awesome. It was the journal event when we launched Get Untamed, the journal. And it was so much fun that we are definitely considering doing more. I mean, wasn't it over 13,000 people registered? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so cool.

That we're there. Yeah. What did you think, Sissy? Well, I loved it for so many reasons. I, first of all, the fact that we, every time we record one of these podcasts, it's, we imagine that we're talking directly to the person. Yeah. So it was so cool to be able to do it and actually be talking directly to the next person. So I thought it was great and I loved it.

And the coolest part of the whole thing is that when we, everyone who registered for that event got a copy of the journal and we sourced all of those 13,000 books to local independent brick and mortar black owned bookstores, which was very, very cool and very hard for them. But it was amazing. They were so grateful. It was record breaking. It was the biggest event that our publisher had ever done. Black owned bookstores, they dug so deep to get all those orders out. They had a rent different space and members from our internal team went out and actually helped them, you know, wrap those books with love and send them out. So it was just very, very cool to be able to support those small businesses who have endured so much over the last 20 months. I mean, on average, during the pandemic,

one local indie has closed every week and to be able to support those bookstores and have people support them through us was really really cool. It was awesome. And I love independent bookstores. I last year was the ambassador for independent bookstores. Did you know that, Abby Womba?

I did. You actually haven't stopped talking about it. Okay. You know, every time we walk, so Glendon's thing, is she loves to go into independent bookstores. I taste my favorite. It's like she sees one across the street and she's like, I gotta go.

And she just leaves me sitting there waiting. And it's the only time I walk around just praying that someone will recognize me. Well, she walks in and as she's walking in, she's always like, you know that I was the ambassador every time. Every time. And listen, we go into independent bookstores

once or twice a week. Yeah. Every time I'm like, baby, I got it. It's like Chase says. It's the only time when being recognized is like awesome for me and Chase. That's right. It's the only time we actually love it

is when we're in a bookstore. I don't know. It's going to be so sad for you when they name a new indie ambassador for the next year. Do you have to like, you're going to have to retire your crown. It's going to be really awful.

I can tell you what that feels like when When someone takes away what when somebody takes over So I'll be here for you when you fall down. Well, that's sad. I only have two more months as the national independent You're what you're really getting all the juice out of the support Matt as in we're still talking about it 10 months later So I feel like it's really Maximizing here's why it's important to me, actually, because of my job and because of my personality have been inside resilience of independent bookstores.

And what I will tell you about people who own, found work at independent bookstores is that none of them are assholes. Yeah, they're good people. They're just always, because I don't know, they're just always amazing people who get into it to spread the love of books and knowledge and connection and serve their communities in such important ways. So also kind of like mysteriously intimidating,

because I haven't read all the books that they have, right? So when you walk in, you know that an independent bookstore worker, they've read a lot. They're smarter than you. They're smarter than you. And so it's a little intimidating, but if you can get over yourself and just start asking questions, they'll point you into the right direction. That's right. If you can admit that you have not read all the books that they have, that's right.

Right. So like if your therapist ever can, so is during a certain week, just find your local Indian, go in and be like, hey, what's the answer? It's sorry, we don't be able to help you. They probably are the only people who actually have the answers. But we don't have any answers, as you know, but we do have some really freaking good questions. And one of the questions I have for the Pod Squatters is, did they like the live event? Yeah, we want to hear it because we were thinking about doing maybe we might do it again, or multiple times, maybe once a month. I think it would be interesting and fun and maybe the Pod Squatters could get

the episode early because we have to record these episodes early. Oh, so so by listening. Yeah, you get you get in on the action beforehand. I don't know. Is that interesting? Maybe I'm scared Any huge commitments like my my favorite part was the chat the 13,000 people chatting with each other on the side and they were planning I kid you not Retreats with one another they were planning they were planning like Instagram pages that they were setting up during the events they could all get together and read and fill out the journal

together. They were planning t-shirts. It was like a entrepreneurial community connection in the 13,000 people commenting. It was awesome. That makes me so happy. And I feel like that's a fit for me is I can provide a space for other people to plan to get together. Like, I can't plan to get together, but I can provide a fake space, an internet virtual space where other people can do that. Okay.

Awesome. Amazing. Clearly, we loved it. You guys and people, humans, tell us if you loved it. But for now, let's jump into our get untamed live conversation. You should know that I've been sitting in front of this computer for probably 45 minutes because I've been so excited. Loads of fun. To start this event. I can't believe that you all keep showing up. I know some of you are new to this whole whatever it is that we're doing here.

Some of you have been around for so long, but I started writing and speaking to you all 15 years ago when I was raising a tiny little people and I basically was just sending messages out into the void just like, I'm so lonely. Does anybody hear me? Is anybody out there? And basically that's what I've been doing every day since. That's right.

You know, I heard somebody say recently that when we write, we, or make art, or that we're just like throwing flares up into the dark night, just hoping that our people find us. And I just want you all to know that for the last 15 years, which really was right after I got sober, you know, I mean, it was early on going for me. You have been my people. I mean, you don't know what being, having you all to show up for over and over and over again every day has steadied me and has been just one of the greatest damn gifts of my entire life.

This is very, very real to me. When I am 90 years old, I will look back on this. Well, I hope we're still, I'll still be on Instagram, liking all, like, that's me. I like every single one of your freaking comments for the last 15 years. Some days I look over I'm like what are you doing babe? She's like I'm liking my juice. Love it. I'm just really grateful for you and I know that this past year or two now I think about how much loss, collective loss, we have all endured in the last two years. It's just freaking incredible.

We have had to do and keep showing up for our people and ourselves. And it's just everybody, everybody on earth right now. There's a few people that most people deserve a standing ovation these days. Right? So thank you. I love you. You are my people. I'm deeply grateful for every single last one of you. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs.

And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward embarrassing and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy?

You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. available now wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so what I thought about how I wanted to talk about this and I'll tell you this, when Abby used to go away, first she'd have to go away for a speaking trip or something, she'd have to leave for three or four days. Pre-COVID, obviously.

Right, pre-COVID. thing. She'd have to leave for three or four days. Precoved, obviously. Right. Precoved. She used to do this thing where she'd leave the car in a specific way in place. She'd park it in a specific way in place. We all know you're not parking in a very specific way. That's right. That's right. So she did that because she would be amazed every single time when she'd come back home four days later, five days later, and she would see that the car had not been moved at all. And she would come in the house and she would say, for Christ's sake, again, you did not

leave the house again. And I would say, what? Really? And she'd go, no, you didn't leave the house. And it would blow my mind because I would say, but I, I feel like I did so much. Like I feel like I had such great adventures while you were gone.

That's correct. And it just became this joke between us, but that was something was kind of interesting about it. And the truth is, is that I have always had the greatest adventures inside myself. Like I have always been a great But without moving, okay? Meaning like, I stationary adventures. Decentrically, I'm glad you're my Glenn and Doyle. There's so much, you know, like, and, you know, I can be, you know, stimulated by like poetry

or art or music or something, an article or whatever, but none of it requires any movement, right? So it's like, it stirs up something and then eight hours later, I'm just like spinning around through the house. Oh yeah. Right. And so everything out of cabinets. That's true. Everything. Right. Mold through. Yeah, things do happen. Nothing, nothing, nothing put back. No cabinets close. Right. Things are just this. And so what I'm trying to say is that actually there are a lot of people it's funny and it's also there are people who are more wired for inner adventure, out of adventure. Totally. For many reasons, social anxiety, anxiety of all kinds, high sensitivity,

to loud, to sound, and like light, a lot of the things that make us go into sort of shutdown mode outside. We can stay open and curious inside. The point being that I realize that I am never going to be able to write you guys like a new people like a travel guide. I'm never going to be able to, you know, be one of those travel writers who tells you where to go and about the beautiful south there. That's right. That's right. But I can be an inner travel guide. That's correct. Right? It's like the interior bucket list. Oh, that's good. Yeah. It's like a scuba diving, but it's inner without any water or equipment. An interior bucket list. Yeah. That's blowing my mind, Sissy. And I feel, I said so many things that were good. I know. I'm working so hard over here. Anyway, it's a good time for an inner

scuba dive, okay? Because we are going into this wherever the hell we are in COVID, but I think that we are kind of considering what's next, the building of the new normal, which has to be different than the old normal. That's right. Because the old normal was only serving like five people. And so we need this whatever we build next, whether our relationships, our different family structures, different institutions, different work life, all of that.

We have to start somewhere better, meaning before we just kind of went with status quo, right? We just plugged ourselves in. We designed our lives from the outside inside. We fit ourselves into other things and tried to make ourselves fit. We got it done. We see the game.

Here's how we're gonna play. Yeah. And now I think we have a real chance to take a minute and excavate ourselves, think about what we actually want, what are actual emotions, what are actual intuition is telling us, what are actual imagination, pull it all out. And so we have a better starting place for what to build next. It's almost like, the question for me now is not, what are we going to build next?

It's like, hold on a second. Let's decide who is going gonna be doing the building. Hmm. That's good. Before we decide, thank you, babe. Thank you. So I just thought for this, that we could have like a homecoming, that this maybe this journal could be a bit of a homecoming for each of us because so many of us just started pleasing so early

that we really haven't You know the world hasn't insisted That we take the time to figure out who we are And what we dream of and what our Emotions guide us to and what our intuition tells us to do. You know, how do we take that time to use our own imagination, spirit, whatever you want to call it as the starting place?

Yeah, I mean, that was like the thing after untame was published. It was the thing that everybody kept asking us. Okay, this is really good, but how do we do this? Yeah. You know, and that was a hard question for me because the last thing that and all of you all know is that I think the reason why so many people ask me for advice is because I never give it, right? Because I'm like, so anti-advice because we, well what the only thing I know is that each of us is living out a completely unprecedented and unrepeatable experiment. That's nobody in the entire world has ever lived

your life, so they sure don't hell don't know what you should do. So when people started asking me that question, as you know, I just kept saying, I don't know. I don't know, because I felt like they were asking me for the answers and everyone's answers are different. But what I figured out eventually was like, no, no, no, I can give questions. Like I can ask questions that I ask myself during my great adventures by myself in my, wherever I am for the day. I can ask questions that will guide people, the counter that will hear that will guide people towards the answers that are already inside of them. And that is what I hope this journal is, stuff to just like stir, stir up, like excavate that self that has been buried for so long beneath what

everybody in the freaking world expects from us. Just the idea that there is a self. And you kept calling it an experiment. Like you kept calling the journal the the experiment. And it was like a process that we could go through and just Undertake and see like what we could learn about ourselves and so I'm curious because we've all done it She she assigned Glennon assigned Abby And herself to go through this whole journal and it was so wild because I was like we I mean we live and breathe untamed. I just didn't think that there would be anything I mean, we live and breathe untamed. I just didn't think there would be anything relevatory that we hadn't actually already thought about.

But it blew my mind to be like, oh, there's so much more. Gee, I feel like that there's a part that you want to talk about that unnerse our hidden beliefs. Well, the first part is about, you know, so if you think of us as trees, which you probably don't, but obviously these are my people. They think of us as trees, okay.

So if you think of us as trees, there's the parts of us you can see, and then there's the stuff underneath, right, that like the roots that are beneath us, that keep us grounded, right? But also keep us planted in the same place. I think about these as our hidden beliefs that were passed down to us from our families or our religions or our culture and some of them are serving us and are great and some of them no longer do. And we don't even know what they are them no longer do. And we don't even know what they are until, you know, we're like, why am I doing this? Why am I, why am I not speaking up? Why am I, why am I martyring myself? Why am I, oh, because I have this, like, I have this deep belief that was planted beneath me, that good mother's murder themselves, right? And you don't, why am I, all of those

things? And so we don't know what those are until we really think about like, what do I believe about what makes a good woman, what makes a good partner, what makes a good worker, what makes a good daughter? And then you start to like journal all that down and you're like, oh, well, no wonder I do what I do because I have like a software, a hardware,

probably, like programmed into me that makes me act in a certain way. So that's what like, unerthing those things and there's hella hard to change. Hella hard. Right, but I think they are, if you can see that, if you can make the invisible visible, it helps you understand yourself better. That's right.

I mean, I think that when I read through this journal, one of the parts that just struck me big time was the stuff about mothering. And for me, I think that I had a root belief that I needed to be in order to be considered or to consider myself a mother. I needed to have some sort of DNA bond with our children when we first started talking and then dating. And then when we got married, like you know that children have been an important thing that I wanted to experience. And so this whole notion about what a mother is, just totally floored me. And it took me a long time to actually get through it, because the experiment, as you would call it, because it was hard, it was hard to get true and real with. Because it was hard. It was hard to get true and real with...

Maybe this idea, this belief about what I believe a mother is that I grew up understanding. I was trying to... I didn't want to force the rewrite of it. I wanted it to be real, you know? And so I also didn't want to lie. Like, I didn't want to, I didn't want to put down things that just to prove my current life correct. Yes. Yes. I got to have lied in so many journals. Totally. All of us have. And I have like 20 journals that I have just the first page written in it. That's it.

Um, anyways, I just think that getting through the mothering part for me, uh, and I think if I can remember, it's like the very first couple of pages of this journal working through it. It was really helpful. And it made me understand a part of myself that I'm a little bit afraid of. I mean, you know that I'm a little bit scared and sister, I think you know this too, that I'm a little bit afraid.

I have been in my life. I need to stop saying that. I have been afraid in my life to go inside to do this interior adventure work. Yeah, you're more of an outer adventure. And I have overcompensated in the outward adventure of my life. So as to never go inside. So maybe we have the opposite.

Maybe that's why we were brought together. Touch. I have actually called myself a home sexual, because I am. So I love home so much. I want to marry home. I never want to leave home. I am a home sexual, because I am so, I love home so much, I want to marry home, I never want to leave home, I am a home sexual. You and people are gonna have some thoughts about that, I bet. It was okay, because I'm also a homosexual. Okay, so this one night, sister happened to be here in our house.

Our whole team was actually here, and we were playing this game, this question game that and Tish was also with us. We were playing this question game, and what ended up happening was the question got asked to Tish who has taught Tish the most about love. And in fact, Glennon kind of made Tish answer this question because she rigged it. She rigged it. And she rigged it because she thought and she knew the answer that Tisha was going to give. It was going to be me.

Of course. She was like, it's a done deal. I'm going to be, I'm going to look good in front of my whole team, right? Well, Tisha sat there for a second and she considered her options and understood that there was a lot kind of playing on the line right then in that moment.

She knows her mom. She knows her mom. And so she looked at you to kind of get, is it okay if I'm like actually really honest? Yes, she said, is it okay if I'm really honest? Yeah. And I was like, well, no. Unless it's going to be Glennon coming out of your mouth. No. And Tish ended up saying me.

She said Abby. Yeah. Abby has taught me the most about love. Everything in my body, like parallel. It just goes completely numb. And I am struck by joy and I start to completely lose it. I start to cry because I didn't understand that that would be a thing. And so, Tish then explains to us

that the reason why she feels this way is that Glennon, you and Craig have to love her, right? And that I choose to love her. And I think that the very thing that I was afraid of actually not making me, or making me feel or be seen, or experience motherhood, is in fact the very thing that makes my child feel love. Yes. And so even though I went through that part in the journal and it was really hard, and I got some truth out of it. And then, and because this was a part of my consciousness, this is why I broke down, is because I had been filling

this stuff out and looking through the journal and trying to figure out like my place in it all. And as a bonus parent, what we call it, or step parent, you know, it's just one of those things that you just don't ever know if you're going to be seen as a parent or or in my case, a mother. And when a child expresses themselves to you that they see you in that way, it completely blows up all of the notions of the stupid conditioned mindset that we were all raised to believe what love is because it was not what I thought. It was not what I thought. It's so incredible that in that night was unbelievable. Everybody was crying.

Yeah, I know. She started crying and sister started crying. I cried inside, but my Lexa pro just snaps the tears right at the tear ducts. I can't see it. So I have to tell people when I'm crying, I'm crying, do I swear? Yeah, but it was I just think that what you said is the very thing you thought, well, I'm not a real mom because I didn't I don't have the paperwork. I don't have the DNA. I just choose to be here.

So I'm not a real mom. And Tish was like, the fact that you don't have the paperwork and that you don't have the DNA and that you keep choosing to love me is the reason I feel such strong mother love from you. Yeah. It's just. And the fact that you weren't like, you were trying to convince yourself that it, that you believed it. Like, it's also like, but actually you had to believe it was true in advance to make it true, right?

Like the only way that Tish ends up in that room saying that to you is because of those years of you pouring into her like that. Like behaving as if it were true to have real genuine, like rock hard love with her. So it was like shocking and unbelievable to you, but some part of your imagination had to have like already believed that it was true or else all of your years of action didn't, wouldn't have made any sense.

So it's like the opposite. It's like, it's like maybe believing in something is acting as if it were true, even when we doubt it. Or like instead of having to see it. Yes, until it's true. It's the invisible order. Right. Right. Believe in your invisible order, believe in your imagination, believe, and it's like, you know, you can't, you can't see it. You can't be it if you can't see it. But it's like, maybe you have to believe it in order to see it. Yeah. And it's so funny because I feel that so much of my life has been in search of outward affirmation or acceptance. any way and for tish to say that to me helped me feel like a mother. So it wasn't just because I needed to hear it from her,

like it unlocked something inside of me that made me be like, oh, right, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. And actually, I said that that might. You did. You said, this is the best day of my life. Yeah, this is the best day of my life. Did you feel like that actually helped you replace that belief? Because that's what I don't know. Like for real, because you know, things happen and we're like, no, I believe that.

But you really feel like you've replaced your belief about what makes a real mother. Yeah, so I think that some of this stuff goes only so deep, right? Like it can get into a layer of you. And then the conditioned part of my mind can play tricks, right? It totally can play tricks on me. But I have to really, like, I have to get into the part of my mind that we might remember us. Yeah.

That moment. That's right. Right. And so the more of my mind that we might remember that moment. That's right. And so the more of those moments you can have and store in your memory, I think that that's the antidote to combat the overall conditioning that we have. And we've been sent through the whole of our lives, right? I love that.

It just takes a lot of those times and repetitions. I like to say, I'm to keep that in my back pocket. Yeah. I'm going to keep that in my back pocket forever. And so whenever the voice in my head or, you know, that conditioning kind of shows its ugly little face, I'm like, you can remember. You can remember. Look what I got. I got a mother card back here. That's so good. What about you, Sissy? What Amanda? I'm sorry. Sorry.

What thing struck you in the journal? For me, it was definitely the be still in no section, which will be shocked to learn, um, was the case. But I think it really, especially after the whole pandemic, I think that it's clear to me that throughout this pandemic, I have not coped well. And the the be still a no-section made me realize that what COVID kind of did for me is it took all of my anxieties and traumas and these relational cracks that were previously just on a slow burn of plausible deniability and kind of brought them to center stage

in three-dimensional technicolor. Like it was like, it was like what had before been an elephant in the room that a semi-healthy person could kind of ignore became like an actual elephant stomping on my actual face. Yeah, it felt like that the whole time of COVID, which was lovely, but one of the ways it became most apparent to me was with my children over this past bit and I have two neurodiverse kids and was what had before felt like this kind of theoretical anxiety about

the challenges, became in COVID actually, you know, sitting with my son in real time watching him struggle to try to follow and learn from a system that in many ways is not compatible with his executive functioning and his attentional biology. And it was just this kind of halacious crucible for me because it was a perfect storm of all my internal bias and all of my fears and all of my achievement addiction. So at the end of the day, it came down to this kind of primal fear of will they be okay? Like if he can't follow this dream minute task, how will he be okay in a world that demands so much of us and can be so cruel? And so slowly, painfully,

and as I was working through that section, and it was painful, but I realized that, oh, the only thing that is going to help them be okay is if I truly believe that they are. Not that I tell them that they're okay, but that I truly believe in the deepest parts of me that my children are perfect and miraculous even, right? Because until I really believe that, all of the fear in me that's trying to protect them from the world will inevitably just be received by them as the shame and judgment. That is the same shame and

judgment I'm trying desperately to protect them from. Be still and know for me is actually about like actually knowing and believing that my kids are okay because when they know that, they will be that. That may perfect sense to me for my babies because I actually believe that they are miraculous. But when that truth settled in on me, I realized that I actually don't hold that truth about myself. And it's kind of like that same shame and judgment of not being enough that I allow to myself to heap on myself is fear poisoning my life. Like, adjust that poison will never leave me until I truly at the deepest parts of me believe that I'm okay. And so I think that that is what I know is my challenge.

Like, I have to be still and know that I am okay and miraculous even because when I know that, I will be that. And to me, that's maybe the most really believing I'm okay is maybe the most important thing that I can do. And probably the foundation of anything else I can do. I mean, if you could just understand how I feel about you and how I see you that you could ever, and I know that you feel this way, and I want to honor the way that you feel. But if I just, if you need the way that I see you

some days, just like ask me to tell you how I feel about you, if you need it, I will pump you up because there is nobody who feels more sure that you are magic than me. And I know you. I mean, good, good Lord, you're incredible. What does, Susie, what does the, um, the not enoughness, the fear feel like? And what, and do you have waves of the, the, the enoughness? And what does that feel like? Do you know what I mean? Like, what does it feel like in your body or to you when you have the, I'm not okay feeling? I mean, to me, it feels like a loop in my head. Like, it feels like the stories I tell myself. Like if I am comfortable,

if I am not at breaking point, then I'm not doing enough. Like if I am not at breaking point, someone will suffer and my work, my team, my kids, like that it's just never enough. And I know intellectually that those are projections of my insecurities and that this belief that I have to kind of hustle for my worthiness, but I'm trying right now to really ask myself

questions about how true that is. Like, is this working for me? Are my people benefiting from my insistence that this is in fact true? Like, is it possible that something else is true that will feel more like freedom? And I mean, is it possible that my life and my family and my work would benefit from me not being empty? And also, is it possible that I'm worthy of that even if no one benefits from it? Yes. Yes. Yes. So I'm just trying to, I'm just, that's what it feels like. It feels like the constant questioning, the constant.

You can't rest, you only have what you have because you haven't stopped hustling. Yes. And at any moment, if you choose to do that, you won't have it anymore. Mm-hmm. As our friend Kate, well, I would say, I am the center that must hold. Right. I am the center that must hold. Yeah. Oh, Sissy. She's just a barrel of monkeys of light. Easy breezy. That's what we call, sister me. You are a good time. Call me.

We are a good time. Fun, fun, fun everywhere you look. I want to know from you. I love you both, gosh. I love you Abby. Okay, after years of writing untamed, and years of writing this turtle, like, how the hell is it possible? I want to know what

it anything new come to you G when you did your experiment. Because I'm like, oh my god, yeah, bottomless pit of adventure. Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, you give me a bunch of questions like so so my job is to ask my self these questions alone by myself for days. Oh, and then, and then wait a minute, I made the questions. It's rigged. It's rigged. I love these questions. Yeah.

No. Yeah, no, I actually feel like it stirred up a lot for me. You know that my loop got a little intense. I think it's so interesting that you describe the not-enoughness as a loop because when I got still and knew during the be still and know part, I realized I was not in a good place. And started meditating again. And it's just interesting to me and I won't get too far off on this but that the not-enoughness is always up here.

Like whenever you describe the not-enoughness is always a mind thing. It's always a lube. And then usually when people feel the enoughness, the piece it's more embodied. You know, it's like a dropping below that wild not- not enoughness. And so that was really important to me because I was trying to change my thoughts.

And that doesn't work for me. I had to get below my thoughts. I have to almost ignore my own thoughts, which is weird because my thoughts also do good things for us. Right. So it's like how do we know when to pay attention and when to ignore it? That's a really good question. No, it's not. A few dollar question people. Do I know? No, it's I do. It's like when my thoughts are

creative and kind, it's like, I'll join them. But when my thoughts are mean to me or other people, I don't trust them. It's like, here we go again. This is not. And also, you know, your mind is a good thing to be the boss of, but not a good thing to let be the boss of you. So if I'm like, brain, we have a project. We're gonna write an Instagram post about blah, blah, blah. My brain is great. My brain's like, yay, let's go. But if I'm like trying to relax

and my brain is like, Glenn and here's what we're gonna think about, we're gonna think about like, how much did you allow yourself to eat yesterday? And also that friend, that friend is getting a lot more done than you are. And it's like when I allow my brain to take me somewhere, it's not a good place, right? It's not a good place.

So your brain is like a toddler. My brain is like toddler. And it's a jackass one, like a really not. Like not trustworthy, poorly raised, just live. I think that at one point you said, I've been listening to my thoughts. Like, they are the reason and true and correct all these years.

And I thought that maybe I was the thing that was wrong, but maybe it's my thoughts. Remember when we were in the kitchen and I was like, babe, my brain doesn't know what the hell it's doing. Yeah. Yes. So anyway, that is like something that came up as soon as. I'm going to be doing it.

I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it.

I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing it. in the journal about envy and about things that, the idea that whatever we're bitter about is the thing we need to go for,

which I believe with all of my self. Follow my bitter, bitter heart, I believe. Yes, exactly. I'm like, experience what I have in this. Ever we're bitter about. Whenever you're like, oh, that must be nice. It's like, wait, what you're saying to yourself is that must be nice. I would like to have that nice thing. Right? So do you know what I got really better about? I got really better about the fact

that I was always having to write these things all by myself, go into my mind, which isn't always a good place to be, all alone, and all of these dudes were starting podcasts when they just got to talk to their freaking friends. I was so bitter about it. And then I was like, wait a minute, I could be a dude who just starts a podcast and talks to my freaking friends. You guys, we can do hard things started largely because of bitterness. You guys, we can do hard things started largely because of bitterness. Right. Ah, of envy.

I mean, it was also that I wanted to have like a place where we could have more nuanced conversations and social media because I kind of seeing the tide of social media may be not being the best place to have any sort of conversation. But it was also envy, okay, of dudes with microphones. And then I wanna tell you one other thing. The Dare to Imagine really got me this time.

The Dare to Imagine. Because I thought I had imagined everything up. It's, I'm telling you, it's because it's like, it's like, it's always new. Mm-hmm. It's always freaking new. Like you come back to it and you're in a different day and a different week in a different place and you're imagining different things.

But like after the the the brujaha from untamed, life gets really weird because so many people want you to do these things. You can do a TV shows this, that, all these things. But there was like, there's a part of me that wasn't feeling any of it. It just wasn't feeling any of it. And I felt stupid listening to that part of me because I'm supposed to be grateful for these things. I'm so like, if you can do them, you should. And so, yeah. Right? And sitting down with the dare to imagine part, I was like, I just started imagining, and I know what is my ideal.

I don't have to do any of those things just because I can. I can actually, I love this crew. I love these people. I love the real conversations that we're having. I love working with my sister and Abby. I love this little community that shows up for the world over and over and over again and shows up for each other

and tells the truth in very radical and weird ways. This is a very strange community we have here, like unusual, beautiful, just beautiful and other things are not better just because they're bigger. So it really just helped me figure out, no, no, no, because when the world starts telling you what you should want, things can get very tricky. So it helped me ground myself back into what I really do want. And also this journal helped me go start going on TV with no makeup.

Mm-hmm. You guys, I, all my whole life since this whole thing started and I started having to go on TV, I've always wanted to go on TV whole thing started and I started having to go on TV. I've always wanted to go on TV with no makeup. I don't hate makeup. I like makeup. I wear makeup in my house sometimes, all by myself. I like, where are you going?

No, because sometimes I just like it. Is it like, no, we're just going to the couch. But I don't like wearing makeup on TV because I feel like so many people watch TV and we watch these faces and we think we're watching face real people. But we're not. We're watching people who have been in a chair for an hour and a half having things literally added to their face. When I get out of makeup chairs, I look like a completely different human being, right?

So what happens is that we don't know that. We don't like consciously understand that. So then we start looking at our own faces in the mirror and we expect our faces to look like those faces on TV and we actually start feeling like shit about ourselves. Yeah. Right? And so that has happened to me over time. And I don't want to do it to other people.

So I go to the TV show and I say, I am going to have no makeup today. And then I get backstage and all the warring starts. And I'm about to go on TV and they're like, would you like hair and makeup? And I'm like, I would like all the makeup. Like if you could just take pounds of makeup and just spackle me like a Pollock painting,

just like, because it feels like armor. Spackle me. So I go to this really big TV show and I'm like, I'm gonna do it. I'm sweaty, I'm gonna do it. I was promoting this journal. I'm like, I'm not promoting get untamed without an untamed

naked face. So they pull me in to the makeup chair and I'm sitting there and I say the words, no thank you. I'm just gonna go out there looking like I look. Just like, like what faces look like. And I did it and no one died. And guess what she said when she saw herself in a picture. Because I don't watch my own things ever. She said, I like the way that I look. Did I say that? No. Yeah, you said, I like the way that I look.

You know, I didn't wear any makeup. I'm like, baby, I know you told me the whole car. Oh, sweat. Sweat. I was like, is it okay? Am I allowed? There's like some part of me that as a woman still feels like I'm not doing my job. Like I'm not prepared enough.

I'm not being professional. You didn't play a role. I didn't play my role. I'm like, is it like, it's almost like, do I feel disrespectful for not doing the whole shabang? Yeah. You know what? People spend more time sitting in the makeup chairs longer

than they spend sitting in the actual chair on stage. Yeah. Okay, so those are the things that I'm doing. And in Let It Burn, that was kind of like a Let It Burn idea, like a Let It Burn that I have to go to these things and put on this other face. I'm actually trying to show up in the most authentic way that I can, just with my own heart and my own brain and my own eyeballs and my own face. I'm actually trying to show up in the most authentic way that I can. Just with my own heart and my own brain and my own eyeballs and my own face. So all I can do.

It's so interesting to what you're just saying. I mean, it's a makeup thing, but it's also you said I would, I felt disrespectful. Like, I should be trying harder. And I feel like that is, I feel like that's a thread through so much. Like you're lucky to be here. Like never mind that you're supposed to put in, 30 more hours a week, then do down the hall. Like you should, it's disrespectful of the opportunity that you have been granted and the gratefulness

you should have to question any of it. Like just keep, keep, keep, keep, keep. You know, it's just interesting. I feel like it goes... And it happens to thread there a lot of things. Every day, I mean, I was on a board call this morning and I was wearing a beanie because it was an eight o'clock in the morning board call and I hadn't done my hair.

And I was like, I'm gonna put a beanie on. Well, one of the guys on the board call calls me out. And he's like, yeah, he's like, oh, you must be in a cold weather place, Abby. And I said, no, I just didn't want to do my hair. Just like this. And I'm like, I want to dress and present every single time the way that I want to dress and present. Exactly. I'm not there to like, not piss somebody off or like follow the rules because guess what? I spend a lot of my life putting on dresses and wearing heels and girly shoes because that's what I thought I was supposed to do and I made myself miserable. I hated myself when I did that. Now I just do and dress however I want. Okay, we're gonna stop there for today,

even though it makes me very sad because I loved this hour so very much. Here's what we want to ask you. If you, if you get a copy of Get Untamed and you are taking your own dive, your inner dive, and you're allowing me to be your inner tour guide. I'm very grateful. But would you please call in and tell us how you're feeling about it? Would you let us know if there's any questions

or parts that really got to you or if you had any self epiphanies, or anything came out that was beautiful or hard or interesting to you. I just wanna hear. I just wanna hear. Any questions about it? It's great too.

Yeah, any questions? So the number is 747-2005307. That's 747- two zero zero five three zero seven. Can I can I say it? Yes you can. Seven four seven two zero zero five three zero seven. Good luck everybody. I think you did the best. Thank you. I think mine was the best. I still cannot believe that you did not wear makeup on that talk show. I know. So free.

And nobody died. I didn't nobody died. I can do it whenever I want to now. And it's so proud of you. So freaking freeing. If half the population can walk around with their face just facing. So can I. I can also just let my face face when it wants to face.

It's a beautiful thing. Thank you. All right. Listen, when life gets too hard this week, and it will, deep breaths, unclench that jaw, drop your shoulders. And don't forget, you can do hard things. Well, we come back Thursday. We come back Thursday because we're going to go back and answer all the live questions that were asked during the event that were so good.

So psyched. See you then. Bye! I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. I walked through a fire I came out the other side. I chased, I er, I made sure I got once money. And I continue to believe that I'm the one for me, and because I mine, I walk the line. Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak So man, a final destination You're black, you've stopped asking directions Some places they've never been

And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our life's spring We can do a heartache I hit rock bottom It felt like a brand new star I'm not the problem sometimes things fall apart And I continue to believe the best people are free And it took some time, but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak, so mad. A final destination with land. We stopped asking directions So places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring, we can do a heartache. This perfect, fresh, and heartbreak's on my mind. We might get lost, but we're only in that stop-dasking directions

Some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be long We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives breathe, we can do hard things. Yeah, we can do hard things. Yeah, we can do hard things. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Kaden's 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or

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